WEBVTT - America: Is it only a dream? 0:00:12.360 --> 0:00:20.120 One nation under the great divide in American politics shows 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:22.880 no sign of closing. We are going to fight like 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:28.720 hell against the tyrannical Democrats. Republicans in Congress are spreading 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:33.839 conspiracy theories, denying reality, and poisoning the well of our 0:00:34.240 --> 0:00:38.800 percent of Republicans and Democrats agreed that the country would 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:41.800 be better off if large numbers of the opposing party 0:00:42.280 --> 0:00:59.000 just die. Welcome to Calling Bullshit, the podcast about purpose washing, 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:02.680 the gap between what companies say they stand for and 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:05.360 what they actually do, and what they would need to 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:09.959 change to practice what they preach. I'm your host, Time Montague, 0:01:10.040 --> 0:01:13.440 and I've spent over a decade helping companies define what 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:16.679 they stand for, their purpose and then help them to 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:21.560 use that purpose to drive transformation throughout their business. Unfortunately, 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:24.479 at a lot of organizations today, they're still a pretty 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:28.559 wide gap between word and deed. That gap has a name. 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:34.480 We call it bullshit. But, and this is important, we 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:37.520 believe that bullshit is a treatable disease. So when the 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:40.800 BS detector lights up, we're going to explore things that 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:53.640 a company should do to fix it. Today we're examining 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:57.080 one of the biggest and most powerful organizations in the world, 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:00.760 and it became big and powerful, at least in part 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:05.200 because of a great story and an aspirational purpose. I'm talking, 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:12.600 of course, about the United States of America. It's tough 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:16.080 to pin down a succinct purpose statement for America. Is 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:20.080 it in the Declaration of Independence or in the Constitution? 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:22.880 Is it in a president's speech or on a coin. 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:25.920 Elements of America's purpose can be found in all of 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:30.359 these artifacts. But to me, there's one thing that truly 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:34.360 captures the spirit of this country's purpose the best. Let's 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:38.200 call it the American Dream, which goes something like this, 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:42.080 no matter who you are or where you come from, 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:45.800 if you live here, work hard, and generally operate as 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:49.399 a good citizen, there is no end to how far 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:54.520 you can go. America is a true meritocracy, a land 0:02:54.520 --> 0:03:02.359 of opportunity that is open to all. But is this 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:08.680 even true? Is our current polarization assign that the dream 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:12.639 is just a bunch of bullshit? Get out your BS 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:16.680 detector and join me and special guest Andrew Yang on 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:24.680 a quest to find out. As we prepped this episode, 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:29.200 it became clear that even as a tight knit podcasting team, 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:32.400 we had differing opinions about the whole idea of the 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:37.680 American Dream, and so we hit the record button on ourselves. 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:43.680 Can I ask you, um so, when I say the 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:47.920 words the American Dream to both of you, like, what 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:51.200 what do those words mean to you? I just felt 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:55.520 like a struggle with the term because I wouldn't be 0:03:55.600 --> 0:04:00.200 here if it weren't for my Jamaican parents coming from 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:03.480 their native country and trying to find a better life 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:07.560 for their family here in America, having access to jobs 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:11.119 and medical care that they might not have had in Jamaica. 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:14.200 So I'm definitely thankful that I'm able to be a 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:19.920 first generation American. That's MICHAELA Read, a producer on Calling BS. 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:23.039 But yeah, I feel like to call it a dream 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:28.080 makes it sounds better than what it is. Everyone should 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:32.119 have access to housing like that shouldn't necessarily be a dream. 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:36.640 It should be a requirement. Everyone should have the ability 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:39.880 if they're sick, to go to a hospital and have 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:44.560 the right amount of care for their illnesses, regardless of 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:48.120 their income. Yeah, that makes sense. The story I thought 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:53.960 I saw unfolding in America previously was people who wanted 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:58.960 to improve their lot in life decided to leave their 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:04.559 home country a totally non trivial decision and come here 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:09.760 and use that motivation to advance themselves on their own cause. 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:13.240 And what I was taught in school was this was 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:17.839 the strength of America, the fact that motivated people came 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:23.279 because we opened that door. We became a country of 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:27.240 motivated people. We benefited from that, and we fed off 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:33.240 one another energy and created something exceptional. So I'm a 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:36.440 more nuanced person than to say that I blanketly don't 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:39.680 agree that nothing good has ever come out of people 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:45.200 coming here from other countries. And that's basil super producer 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:49.320 and researcher. It's complicated, but I do think that there's 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:51.560 a reason that people want to be here. Who knows 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:53.200 why they're doing it. Are they doing it because they're 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:56.120 fed the idea of an American dream? Or is it 0:05:56.200 --> 0:06:00.680 like because it's it's really dire and and it doesn't 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:03.920 matter how bad it is here, right, Yeah, I'm just thinking, like, 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:11.200 maybe America just has really good marketing. America does have 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:15.040 really good marketing, and that's because it tells an irresistible story. 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:20.800 From revolution to independence, from freedom to wild financial success. 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:25.960 The American legend has been undeniably inspiring and on this show, 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:30.839 we explore how well organizations actually honor the narrative they're 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:35.000 crafting for themselves. So the question is do we still 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:38.560 believe that story and how much of that story has 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:42.320 been conveniently left out in order to keep the brand strong. 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:48.320 I think that we became a successful country and like 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:52.039 the powerhouse of the economy of globally, you know, through 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:56.599 exploiting workers of all kinds, and that goes back to 0:06:56.640 --> 0:07:01.320 like children and women and people of color. So for me, 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:08.240 when we talk about America being great, I don't think 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:13.280 it was ever really. Yeah, I mean I definitely feel 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:18.080 I guess some elements of bitterness when talking about American 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:22.240 what it was founded upon, like mass genocide of indigenous 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:25.560 peoples and how it was built upon the backs of 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:31.600 enslaved people. It's just difficult to think of a country 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:35.400 that is viewed as something that is a place for opportunity, 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:40.400 and the opportunities that they're providing aren't exactly accessible to 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:46.080 all Americans. Yeah, I hear that both of those perspectives. 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:50.920 I guess it raises some questions for me, Like you know, 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:55.240 from my perspective, and again mine is a perspective of privilege, 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:59.840 but there is some good to have set up in 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:06.000 view a country that is supposed to be and certainly 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:07.640 has not been in every case, but it's supposed to 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:10.480 be a meritocracy, and we did open a door for 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:15.000 people to come here and make their own way, rise 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:18.600 to the level of their own abilities, and so there's 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:22.000 got to be some value to that. I don't think 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:25.000 that's the truth. I think even if people did come 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:29.560 from worse off countries, they came here as immigrants and 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:34.559 lived in tenements and just made the rich richer. That's frustrating, 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:36.360 you know. It's not like they just came here and 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:38.319 like we're like middle class. You know, someone who grew 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:42.160 up in poverty. When we talk about things like people 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:44.840 not be able to make a living wage, or like 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:48.520 some people being shocked by how we've responded to COVID 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:51.760 as a country doesn't shock me as someone who couldn't 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:54.000 get health care, growing up as a trans person who 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:56.839 can't get trans healthcare, you know, in an accessible way. 0:08:57.360 --> 0:09:00.920 So for me, like I've seen the this this isn't new. 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:08.240 This conversation got me really curious. There are so many 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:12.000 ways to interpret the American dream. How many Americans still 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:15.360 believe that the country has a higher purpose. Is the 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:19.960 dream still worth believing in? Or is it dying? To 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:23.000 try and understand all of this, the team decided to 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:26.319 fan out and speak with a wide variety of Americans, 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:29.240 some of them in our own families, and we asked 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:34.000 them for their definitions of the American dream. First up, 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:37.920 Basil's brother in law, Jonathan Craig, a pool technician in 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:44.400 Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. American Dream. M hm. So you 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:47.520 come from a third world country as they come from Afghanistan. 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:49.840 You don't speak of Lake English. You got your whole 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:52.600 family here with you. You come here and pretty much 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:54.560 you can be whatever you know and do whatever you 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:58.280 want and sky Athalna. Here you can get a good education. 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:00.480 We got a good American system, you know, as far 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:04.359 as helping people get on their feet, you know, programs 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:07.240 for school. And you come here from anywhere and you 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:10.480 can get the help you need and shoot just like 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:13.720 you a guy down the road. They come from Saudi Arabia, 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:17.160 didn't speak hardly in English three or four years ago. 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:19.640 Now they got freaking four or five stores. You know, 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:22.240 that's the American dream right there. You come here and 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:29.760 then make a living, raised a family. The American dream 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:34.840 you can achieve whatever you set out to do. Because 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:41.080 I'm Jamaican, it meant that I could be here and 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:46.160 opportunities would be available, not so much for myself, but 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:51.360 for my children. That's Michaelis grandmother, Yvonne Clark, a former 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:55.520 law secretary in New York. And I am so proud 0:10:56.800 --> 0:11:00.760 to be an American and for them to be Americans 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:06.680 and for the avenues for growth it has afforded them. 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:11.080 And one of Yvan's children is Michaela's aunt and Dream Clark, 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:14.960 a public school teacher in North Carolina. But the American 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:17.560 dream is a pursuit of happiness, and really that's what 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:21.960 so many Americans want to do. For so many, the 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:25.439 American dream is about the pursuit of happiness and opportunity. 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:29.840 But as entrepreneur, cultural critic Queens New York resident and 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:34.680 first generation Korean American J. K. Cho points out, there's 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:37.360 a dark side to that pursuit. I feel like when 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:41.360 people say American dream is often associated with abundance, right 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:44.480 buying the necessary ship in Bolke, Like you know, we 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:46.800 have a hundred pairs of sneakers at home, Like when 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:50.280 we're never going to run that much Black Friday holiday shopping. 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:54.840 It's a flawed narrative that's like too often perpetrated by 0:11:54.880 --> 0:12:00.679 the imperialistic American agenda. This concept of consumerism is interweaved 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:06.080 with the American dream, and it's also connected with democracy, 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:10.800 this thought of freedom of choice. But in reality, we 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:14.839 really live in like a politocracy, government controled by those 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:17.760 with a lot of wealth, which is continuously part of 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:23.680 this pipeline that essentially served those in upper economic realms 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:28.160 with our labor meager wages, which we used to buy 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:32.360 more ship, watch more content to entertainers. And you know, 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:36.240 I don't really believe in this concept of an American dream, 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:41.280 per se. I believe in American survival. For some Americans, 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:44.920 the tough part of survival is economic. But for my 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:48.880 next guest, survival means holding onto an entire way of 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:54.000 life despite centuries of systemic oppression. What to the words 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:59.640 the American dream mean to you? For me? Those words 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:02.720 as a mama response to ta we means? Is a 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:07.440 Stanford educated attorney who leads Thunder Valley, an indigenous not 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:12.040 for profit organization that advocates for the liberation of Lakota people. 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:15.360 She is the only person we spoke to who doesn't 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:19.480 identify as an American. I am from the Ogala La 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:25.160 Kota and cistertan Wapatan Da Kota people nations, and we 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:28.600 are a part of the Ocheti shakoe Um larger nation 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:32.440 and currently reside in what is now called South Dakota, 0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:37.079 where the original caretakers and stewards of this land long 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:43.359 before Columbus lost his way and inflicted years of European 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:47.200 genocide upon the people of this land. And so that 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:49.720 is a trauma response for a lot of Indigenous people 0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:53.559 and other communities of color because of the the colonization 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:57.280 and the genocide that was associated with the development of 0:13:57.280 --> 0:13:59.960 this land base into what is now called the United 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:04.960 States of America. The conversation with tatewe really brought home 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:08.160 the terrible price that millions of people have paid to 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:11.400 create the country that we live in today. How you 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:15.840 feel about the American dream really depends on your vantage 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:19.320 point and the version of American history that you've been taught. 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:24.360 So many people have sacrificed for this country against their will, 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:29.200 while others volunteer their lives to defend it. Next is 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:33.080 Adrian Bonnenberger, a writer and veteran who served two tours 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:36.640 of duty in Afghanistan. One of the extraordinary things of 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:40.120 America and the American Dream, I think, is that you 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:43.800 can come to America from anywhere on Earth. You can 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:46.600 start a business, you can get a job somewhere, and 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:48.880 you will be the author of your own destiny. And 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:52.800 I think that far more than um, you know, the 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:56.080 ability to to get rich or whatever some people say 0:14:56.160 --> 0:15:00.200 the American dream is, is actually what makes America a 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:02.720 place that people look to a place where they can 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:06.400 live um with dignity. And you get your American citizenship, 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:09.520 You've got that passport in your hand. Only a real 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:12.000 jerk is going to say you're not a real American. 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:17.760 To me, the American dream means equal opportunity. That's David Sefabian, 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:21.760 the current General counsel for the American Conservative Union, who 0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:25.040 has also held senior positions in the Bush White House. 0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:29.640 The ability for folks to follow their passion to work 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:35.400 hard to achieve success, regardless of how you define success. 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:39.600 Having a system that not only makes it possible but 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:43.800 encourages individual success, I think is what I would view 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:48.680 the pathway to the American Dream. And Penelope super nine 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:57.040 what would you say America's purpose actually is shoo, comes 0:15:57.080 --> 0:16:02.640 here and be yourself. Do you think America is actually 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:09.480 achieving this? Uh? Sometimes no, because they are treating people differently, 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:15.440 like gay people, by people, um and like Indian Americans, 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:21.120 black people and other people like that. Why do you 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:26.160 think that is because they think that they're since they're different, 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:29.880 that they could just treat them different. How do you 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:32.720 How does that make you feel? That makes me feel sad? 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:39.160 Is it because you love LGBT people and black people? Yeah? 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:45.600 I don't care if they're any condition people. Yeah, they're rude. 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:49.440 I don't want them. I'm with Penelope, I don't like 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:52.960 rude people either. Nearly all of the people that I 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:57.040 spoke with identified as either Democrat or Republican. I'll leave 0:16:57.080 --> 0:16:59.840 it to your imagination to decide who is who. But 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:02.880 no matter their affiliation, there seemed to be a common 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:06.840 understanding of what the American dream was supposed to be. 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:11.240 The difference in perspective stemmed from whether we're actually living 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:15.560 up to it or not. America's bs score a conversation 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:20.119 with Andrew Yang and an exploration into why we're so polarized. 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:23.760 Right after this, before you head to the break. We'd 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:26.399 love to hear what you think about the show. Maybe 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:29.399 you were inspired to take action, maybe you disagree with 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:33.160 today's bullshit rating. Either way, we want to hear about it. 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:36.040 Leave us a message at two one two five oh 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:39.639 five to Zo five, or send a voice memo to 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:43.720 CBS podcast at co collective dot com. You might even 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:54.080 be featured on an upcoming episode. It is a joke 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:57.679 when Republicans say that the urgency around this bill, the 0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:01.000 only folk of the ads is that what they wanted. 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:11.720 Opublican doesn't want you to know. Media the welcome back 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:16.159 on this unique episode of calling Bullshit. We've applied the 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:20.240 idea of an organization's purpose to an entire nation, the 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:24.160 United States of America, and for the sake of this experiment, 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:29.440 we've identified the American Dream as that purpose. Now we 0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:33.720 continue these conversations by exploring America's mission, in other words, 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:36.720 the steps that we can take as citizens and governing 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:40.920 bodies to actually put the purpose into practice, and debating 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:45.640 how or even if Americans can achieve this dream amidst 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:52.119 so much division. Here's school teacher Andrean Clark opportunity for all. 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:56.280 That's America's mission statement that's I think what the founding 0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:59.880 fathers wanted, And if they wanted it any other way, 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:04.000 they would have said equality for white men who own 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:09.720 land and freedom for specific people. But they had a 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:16.280 bigger dream, and they're bigger dream was equality and opportunity 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:19.600 and freedom for all these systems in this country was 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:22.320 not built for people that look like me, sound like me, 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:25.720 or grew up like me. Once again, the leader of 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:29.160 Thunder Valley to tay we means you hear that it's 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:31.600 a land of opportunity, but you have to really question 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:35.600 for who. From my perspective as an Indigenous woman, the 0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:41.400 mission state of America is really exclusionary and genocidal, harmful. 0:19:42.160 --> 0:19:47.480 What could America be doing better to live its mission? 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:49.399 In other words, if you were going to change some 0:19:49.520 --> 0:19:52.800 things about the country, what would you change? I would 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:55.560 change its mission? You have to you have to start 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:58.120 at those rotten roots. The seeds of this country are 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:02.919 rotten because of the these you know, initial ideologies and 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:06.520 beliefs about the people that did not look like white 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:10.520 men that were already here, and our view about what 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:14.919 it meant to be inhabitants and occupants of this land. 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:19.920 Army veteran Adrian Bonnenberger. I would say our mission has 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:26.600 been to expand that definition of citizen and citizenship as 0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:29.960 being something that's dependent on the individual's willingness to take 0:20:30.080 --> 0:20:34.920 part in community and not defined based on something that 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:37.280 one of their ancestors did eight hundred years ago. It 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:39.800 shouldn't be defined based on religion, it shouldn't be defined 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:43.080 based on race, it shouldn't be defined based on class. 0:20:43.680 --> 0:20:46.000 It was a revolutionary idea. We we we had to, 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:50.000 you know, stage a revolution over it, uh towards Washington, 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:52.920 when people said you ought to be king, he said, 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:55.199 that's not what I'm doing here. You know, I'm going 0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:57.879 to be president and you're going to keep electing. So 0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:02.280 it's a process that is both durative and also it's 0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:05.679 a process that requires people to buy into it actively. 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:08.240 And if you buy into it actively, then that's your 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:10.520 stake and you own a piece of it, and nobody 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:13.639 can tell you different. I think America's mission statement is 0:21:13.640 --> 0:21:16.560 to be a beacon of freedom to the world. General 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:21.159 Counsel for the American Conservative Union David sa Fabian and 0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:27.120 I personally view the American model, the American experiment as 0:21:27.280 --> 0:21:30.520 something that I know so many millions of other people 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:34.080 see and go, That's where I want to be, That's 0:21:34.080 --> 0:21:37.720 what I want for my family. So I think our 0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:44.440 mission is not just too continue the concept of American exceptionalism, 0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:49.639 but to make sure that we continue with American exceptionalism 0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:53.119 as a way to show the path to other governments, 0:21:53.480 --> 0:21:56.879 other countries, other cultures. How do you think about the 0:21:56.920 --> 0:21:59.720 polarization that's going on in the country right now. I 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:01.840 things coming out of the left and the right that 0:22:01.960 --> 0:22:05.040 just nauseate me, to be honest, and there is very 0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:09.639 little open communication and honest communication between the sides. I 0:22:09.680 --> 0:22:13.280 think what we've come to as a point where we 0:22:13.359 --> 0:22:18.280 are both so convinced of our righteousness that we have 0:22:18.400 --> 0:22:22.640 to condemn people that have opposing points of view. There 0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:24.719 is some sense that there was kind of an original 0:22:24.800 --> 0:22:29.879 sin in America and that that sin keeps coming back, 0:22:30.240 --> 0:22:34.880 you know, like once it's in you, it it's really 0:22:35.040 --> 0:22:38.800 hard to to get it out. How do you think 0:22:38.800 --> 0:22:41.639 about that? I guess, you know, you really hit it 0:22:41.880 --> 0:22:44.200 when you called it original sin, And this is the 0:22:44.200 --> 0:22:46.240 first time I've really thought about it in this context 0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:50.840 or this frame. So I think that our past is 0:22:50.880 --> 0:22:55.239 something we all have to recognize but to carry it 0:22:55.400 --> 0:22:59.480 forward and say we are somehow less of an exceptional 0:22:59.560 --> 0:23:05.160 nation and truly believe America is exceptional. Um to carry 0:23:05.160 --> 0:23:11.720 it forward as a scarlet, a scarlet s for slavery 0:23:11.920 --> 0:23:16.280 tattooed on our collective foreheads is neither going to fix 0:23:16.359 --> 0:23:19.920 any problem, nor does it reflect reality that we are 0:23:20.600 --> 0:23:23.840 a generous country. We are by and large a kind 0:23:23.880 --> 0:23:27.399 and welcoming country, and we are the one that should 0:23:27.440 --> 0:23:30.159 be the beacon of the world. So right now, I 0:23:30.200 --> 0:23:34.000 think we're in a crisis, in a moment of self 0:23:34.040 --> 0:23:39.240 realization or self actualization for America. What does America really 0:23:39.280 --> 0:23:43.080 stand for? Are we free to pursue our own happiness 0:23:43.600 --> 0:23:47.480 and not harm others? Are we still living up to 0:23:47.520 --> 0:23:53.200 the ideals of the Constitution, which is freedom, opportunity, and equality? 0:23:53.440 --> 0:23:55.800 And I would say not. I think we're on the 0:23:55.880 --> 0:23:59.000 threat right now. There's a group of people who have 0:23:59.080 --> 0:24:03.960 been misled thirty years about America just being for white, 0:24:04.000 --> 0:24:09.680 Anglo Saxon Protestants, and they are afraid of the demographic 0:24:09.760 --> 0:24:14.480 shift that is going on there. Are really terrified that 0:24:14.560 --> 0:24:18.280 they won't be able to pursue happiness again, won't be 0:24:18.320 --> 0:24:24.440 able to have their freedom door somehow they're opportunities being 0:24:24.520 --> 0:24:29.479 curtailed because the demographics of America shifting to be more brown. 0:24:30.359 --> 0:24:33.560 Everything's race related now, I mean it. You know, there's 0:24:33.600 --> 0:24:37.879 a serious thing Pool technician Jonathan Craig, you know, police 0:24:37.880 --> 0:24:41.840 brutality all that. You know, it's crappy that properly does 0:24:41.920 --> 0:24:45.080 happened to black people, more African Americans, more than does most. 0:24:45.720 --> 0:24:49.120 But I mean, you ain't nothing. And then then needs 0:24:49.119 --> 0:24:51.320 to go with defund the police. Well, if you want 0:24:51.320 --> 0:24:54.040 to go that rat, well just let's just abolish to 0:24:54.080 --> 0:24:56.879 hold them system and everything. No police, no, none of that. 0:24:56.920 --> 0:24:58.400 And then we'll see whe're at in a year from 0:24:58.400 --> 0:24:59.680 now and see if you want to go to bring 0:24:59.720 --> 0:25:02.640 the baby. But we've definitely gotten away from our core 0:25:02.720 --> 0:25:05.840 principles I believe. I mean, just as far as like 0:25:05.880 --> 0:25:08.920 to say, you know, everybody created equal. I mean even 0:25:09.200 --> 0:25:11.600 you know women, I mean they still get you know, 0:25:11.680 --> 0:25:13.280 it's not as bad as I'm sure it was, you know, 0:25:13.320 --> 0:25:15.919 thirty or forty years ago. But I mean that that 0:25:15.960 --> 0:25:19.160 could get a little better too. But uh, I mean 0:25:19.200 --> 0:25:26.600 it's I regret to say that at the current moment, 0:25:27.280 --> 0:25:31.480 I think the the experiment is is in danger. It's 0:25:31.480 --> 0:25:36.639 in danger mostly because of complacency. We've become victims of 0:25:36.680 --> 0:25:39.960 our own success and our own privilege. And I think 0:25:40.040 --> 0:25:43.439 this is this, more than anything, is going to ruin us. 0:25:43.960 --> 0:25:47.880 Entrepreneur j Cho, So what would I change about America? 0:25:48.040 --> 0:25:53.399 Like stop pushing American military might to control resources and 0:25:53.480 --> 0:25:59.000 have you know, young people died for old people's selfish agendas, 0:25:59.600 --> 0:26:03.240 you know, hoologize to the indivigenous people and respect nature, 0:26:03.880 --> 0:26:06.720 all of that ship, you know, Like I would change 0:26:06.720 --> 0:26:09.679 all of that, But I think the root of it 0:26:09.760 --> 0:26:14.840 all really comes from being willing to try to learn 0:26:14.880 --> 0:26:17.840 more about people that might not look like you. And 0:26:17.880 --> 0:26:21.680 I think that America is a social experiment that can 0:26:21.800 --> 0:26:26.040 progress towards them because, like, how many societies do you 0:26:26.119 --> 0:26:30.720 know where an Asian kid growing up on hip hop 0:26:31.000 --> 0:26:36.040 and queens could naturally flow and have friends from all 0:26:36.119 --> 0:26:39.600 parts of the world, eat each other's food, make love 0:26:39.640 --> 0:26:43.239 with each other, and you know, eventually have kids and 0:26:43.280 --> 0:26:47.919 build families and basically create a whole new paradigm of 0:26:48.000 --> 0:26:51.960 what a community could look like. Because I reflect on 0:26:52.240 --> 0:26:54.919 what I've learned in these conversations, it occurs to me 0:26:55.000 --> 0:26:58.560 that over the past several decades, we've become two nations. 0:26:59.160 --> 0:27:03.400 One nation actively pushing for us to remember and to reconcile, 0:27:03.880 --> 0:27:06.320 to acknowledge some of the flaws and mistakes in our 0:27:06.400 --> 0:27:10.320 history and to address them, and a second nation that 0:27:10.480 --> 0:27:13.520 fears the future and wants things to return to the 0:27:13.560 --> 0:27:17.280 way it always was, to return to a time of forgetting. 0:27:18.960 --> 0:27:21.560 Maybe the way forward here is to remember something else. 0:27:22.400 --> 0:27:26.560 America has never feared the future and has never feared change. 0:27:26.960 --> 0:27:30.240 In fact, the founders knew we'd need to change and 0:27:30.320 --> 0:27:35.440 adapt to new and unforeseen circumstances. That's what the Constitution 0:27:35.520 --> 0:27:39.600 and the Amendments are for. As long as we respect 0:27:39.640 --> 0:27:43.920 one another, actively participate, and have the ability to agree 0:27:43.920 --> 0:27:49.400 to disagree civilly and respectfully, that America will find its way. 0:27:49.640 --> 0:27:55.359 Andreane Clark says it best America is for all people 0:27:55.640 --> 0:27:59.520 if you believe in those ideals of freedom for all, 0:28:00.119 --> 0:28:05.240 opportunities for all, and harm none, And that is possible. 0:28:05.960 --> 0:28:09.840 And I'm extremely patriotic. I say, uh, the Pledge of 0:28:09.880 --> 0:28:13.560 allegiance at schools and some of my students wonder why 0:28:13.920 --> 0:28:17.360 when opportunities aren't there for them, And I say, well, 0:28:17.400 --> 0:28:19.560 then you've got to grab the bull by the horn. 0:28:19.680 --> 0:28:22.600 And wrestle with it and make it work for you. 0:28:22.840 --> 0:28:26.840 If you believe in those ideals of freedom for all, 0:28:27.320 --> 0:28:30.160 be an American and be a good citizen, which means 0:28:30.520 --> 0:28:34.800 to participate and not let a certain segment of society 0:28:34.880 --> 0:28:38.080 take it from you or destroy it because they don't 0:28:38.080 --> 0:28:42.040 want to share in the dream of pursuit of happiness 0:28:42.280 --> 0:28:47.680 or equality. And so governments must work for the greater good, 0:28:48.120 --> 0:28:54.280 for the greatest many, for the greatest pursuit. Folks, it's 0:28:54.320 --> 0:28:57.600 time to make the call. Is the American dream still real? 0:28:58.640 --> 0:29:01.680 Is America a place where all people are created equal, 0:29:02.360 --> 0:29:05.600 a place that welcomes people from all walks of life 0:29:05.640 --> 0:29:10.080 with open arms and opens the door to whatever future 0:29:10.200 --> 0:29:15.240 they want to create. Or has America itself become a bullshitter? 0:29:16.320 --> 0:29:18.840 Based on what I've heard today, I think we have 0:29:18.920 --> 0:29:23.360 to call bs. But remember, bullshit is a treatable disease, 0:29:23.680 --> 0:29:27.080 and so after the diagnosis, we always discuss a cure. 0:29:27.560 --> 0:29:31.360 America is a place that reinvents itself, and the Framers 0:29:31.360 --> 0:29:33.440 were wise enough to leave us with the tools we 0:29:33.520 --> 0:29:37.640 need to drive that reinvention. I think it's also worth 0:29:37.680 --> 0:29:42.280 remembering we've come back from worse places before this after 0:29:42.320 --> 0:29:45.760 the break, we'll hear some concrete solutions from a special guest, 0:29:46.320 --> 0:30:09.160 Andrew Yang. Stick with us, Welcome back. We've decided that 0:30:09.240 --> 0:30:12.120 there is a gap between the dream that America is 0:30:12.160 --> 0:30:16.760 selling and the actions that America is taking. So we're 0:30:16.800 --> 0:30:20.680 calling BS. But on this show, we believe BS is 0:30:20.720 --> 0:30:23.920 a treatable condition. So next, we're gonna talk about some 0:30:23.920 --> 0:30:27.760 potential cures with someone who has firsthand experience participating in 0:30:27.760 --> 0:30:31.760 our political system, Andrew Yang. You might know him as 0:30:31.800 --> 0:30:35.200 the person who introduced the country to universal basic income 0:30:35.280 --> 0:30:39.600 back in the last presidential Democratic primary. Running for office 0:30:39.640 --> 0:30:42.760 gave Andrew a critical vantage point to see what's wrong 0:30:42.800 --> 0:30:45.200 with a major part of our system, and he has 0:30:45.280 --> 0:30:49.200 some fascinating ideas to fix it. No matter where you 0:30:49.240 --> 0:30:51.880 fall on the political spectrum, I think you'll find his 0:30:51.920 --> 0:30:57.360 perspective as interesting as I did. Hey, Andrew, welcome to 0:30:57.680 --> 0:31:00.760 UH calling Bullshit, and thank you so much for joining 0:31:00.840 --> 0:31:04.000 us today. We really appreciate it, no problem, my friend, 0:31:04.080 --> 0:31:08.320 happy to be here. So you recently made two exciting 0:31:08.320 --> 0:31:12.040 announcements a new book, Forward and a new political party, 0:31:12.080 --> 0:31:14.280 the Forward Party, And we're going to get into those 0:31:14.280 --> 0:31:16.680 in just a second. But before we get into that. 0:31:16.720 --> 0:31:19.560 I want to continue down the path that I've been 0:31:19.600 --> 0:31:22.040 on for this episode, which is to try to figure 0:31:22.080 --> 0:31:25.960 out whether America is living up to its mission at 0:31:25.960 --> 0:31:29.240 the moment. So I've asked a handful of Americans to 0:31:29.280 --> 0:31:32.040 answer three questions, and I want to start the interview 0:31:32.080 --> 0:31:35.840 by asking you the same questions. The first one is 0:31:37.000 --> 0:31:39.920 what to the words the American Dream mean to you? 0:31:40.800 --> 0:31:44.200 I'm the child of immigrants myself, so the American dream 0:31:44.320 --> 0:31:48.280 is that you can come here and build a life, 0:31:48.480 --> 0:31:52.520 and your children will have opportunities greater than the opportunities 0:31:52.520 --> 0:31:54.920 that you've had, that each generation is going to do 0:31:54.960 --> 0:31:58.800 better than the one before. Second question, what would you 0:31:58.840 --> 0:32:02.959 say America's mission in statement or purpose? Statement? Actually is 0:32:03.680 --> 0:32:05.880 the first things that came to mind for me are life, liberty, 0:32:05.880 --> 0:32:07.960 and the pursuit of happiness. I mean, I think that's 0:32:08.000 --> 0:32:13.280 in the charter. Yeah, no, I think that's right. And 0:32:13.280 --> 0:32:16.440 and then the third question is how are we doing 0:32:16.720 --> 0:32:20.400 at living up to that mission right now? I believe 0:32:20.440 --> 0:32:23.120 we are doing very very poorly. If you stack up 0:32:23.120 --> 0:32:26.640 the United States relative to other countries, we are approximately 0:32:26.720 --> 0:32:33.520 twenty eight across measurements of education, mortality, equity, freedom, of expression, 0:32:33.920 --> 0:32:38.960 life expectancy with a down arrow like and declining, and 0:32:39.240 --> 0:32:41.800 that I believe is driving a lot of the anger 0:32:41.840 --> 0:32:44.400 and frustration where our quality of life is sinking into 0:32:44.440 --> 0:32:47.440 the mud. And then if you look up and say, okay, well, 0:32:47.440 --> 0:32:51.120 what's happening in terms of measures to correct this, Uh, 0:32:51.160 --> 0:32:55.360 it's really very little. Yeah, the statistics are are shocking. 0:32:55.440 --> 0:32:58.280 So yeah, let's let's get into the book Forward, which, 0:32:59.080 --> 0:33:02.640 among other things, really lays out the rationale for a 0:33:02.680 --> 0:33:05.840 third political party. What what inspired you to write this book? 0:33:07.200 --> 0:33:10.080 I ran for president, and after I came up the trail, 0:33:10.120 --> 0:33:11.560 I tried to figure out what the heck guy has 0:33:11.560 --> 0:33:15.000 been through and what I've learned. So I wrote down 0:33:15.240 --> 0:33:17.960 not just my own experiences, but also trying to pin 0:33:18.080 --> 0:33:22.360 down why we feel so stuck and why polarization is 0:33:22.360 --> 0:33:25.719 getting worse, and why it doesn't seem like big solutions 0:33:25.760 --> 0:33:30.240 are imminent. And I concluded that our system is working 0:33:30.280 --> 0:33:33.360 exactly as it's designed. It's just not designed to succeed. 0:33:34.800 --> 0:33:39.480 It's in many ways it's designed for polarization and stasis 0:33:39.520 --> 0:33:43.560 and increasing frustration, which at a national scale will result 0:33:43.560 --> 0:33:47.360 eventually in unrest and political violence, which we're already seeing 0:33:48.120 --> 0:33:52.480 so in that environment, I thought, well, someone needs to 0:33:52.480 --> 0:33:57.160 do something to try and moderate the polarization and change 0:33:57.200 --> 0:34:03.520 the incentives. And I ound a genuine solution where Alaska 0:34:03.520 --> 0:34:07.000 adopted open primaries and ranked Troy's voting last year, which, 0:34:07.000 --> 0:34:09.960 among other things, freed up Senator Lisa Murkowski to be 0:34:10.040 --> 0:34:13.840 the only Republican senator to impeach Donald Trump. So, realizing 0:34:13.880 --> 0:34:18.799 that there's actually a structural fix too, uh these incentives 0:34:18.800 --> 0:34:21.800 and are increasing polarization, I then thought, well, we should 0:34:21.800 --> 0:34:25.240 definitely do that. And if you're going to support ballad 0:34:25.280 --> 0:34:28.360 initiatives in red and blue states around the country, it 0:34:28.440 --> 0:34:32.520 certainly is, in my mind, almost impossible to do so 0:34:32.640 --> 0:34:35.120 as a member of one party or another, because then 0:34:35.160 --> 0:34:38.920 obviously if you showed up to UH a state where 0:34:39.360 --> 0:34:41.000 it was governed by the other party, they'd be like, 0:34:41.040 --> 0:34:44.239 you know, you're problem. They're playing into their hands in 0:34:44.280 --> 0:34:46.480 a way. So I want to talk. I want to, 0:34:46.800 --> 0:34:48.839 you know, for for the listeners, sort of ease into 0:34:48.880 --> 0:34:51.560 it a little bit and say, um, you know, there 0:34:51.560 --> 0:34:55.400 were some stunning statistics about economic inequality. You know, it's 0:34:55.440 --> 0:34:58.080 sort of the roots of this polarization in the book, 0:34:58.120 --> 0:34:59.759 And I wondered if you could talk a little bit 0:34:59.760 --> 0:35:02.400 more about those. One of the things you said, for instance, 0:35:02.480 --> 0:35:05.080 is we're in the midst of the most extreme winner 0:35:05.080 --> 0:35:07.239 take all economy in the history of the world. The 0:35:07.239 --> 0:35:10.880 bottom eight percent of Americans own only eight percent of 0:35:10.880 --> 0:35:15.759 the stock market, and the bottom owned zero. What are 0:35:15.800 --> 0:35:18.239 some other data points that you would consider to be 0:35:18.280 --> 0:35:22.160 the sources of this polarization. Well, one thing I've seen 0:35:22.719 --> 0:35:27.400 very consistently is that mindset of scarcity ends up impeding 0:35:28.000 --> 0:35:32.600 your executive functioning by a measurable degree. One study had 0:35:32.640 --> 0:35:36.560 it at thirteen i Q points, so that's one standard deviation. Um. 0:35:36.600 --> 0:35:38.279 The simplest way to think about it is that if 0:35:38.280 --> 0:35:40.000 I put you in a situation where you're not sure 0:35:40.000 --> 0:35:43.240 how you're gonna pay next month's rent, uh, it doesn't 0:35:43.239 --> 0:35:45.880 just stress you out. It consumes your bandwidth to a 0:35:45.920 --> 0:35:49.000 point where you're more susceptible to bad ideas, You're more 0:35:49.000 --> 0:35:52.520 susceptible to negative impulses. And so we're doing that to 0:35:52.800 --> 0:35:55.400 a bulk of the American population at this point. I 0:35:55.480 --> 0:35:58.239 had dinner with a friend yesterday who said that what 0:35:58.320 --> 0:36:01.600 he figured out was that used to think about problems 0:36:01.640 --> 0:36:04.920 among the bottom of Americans and now he's realized that 0:36:05.200 --> 0:36:07.359 he had it in reverse. It's actually the bottom eight 0:36:07.440 --> 0:36:13.040 percent of Americans that are in tough straits. And there 0:36:13.200 --> 0:36:16.840 is a pattern where if you eliminate a middle class 0:36:16.840 --> 0:36:20.480 of a country, it becomes much more susceptible to, for example, 0:36:20.480 --> 0:36:24.320 authoritarian impulses. So this has been happening by the numbers 0:36:24.400 --> 0:36:27.680 for two to three generations in the United States, right, 0:36:27.840 --> 0:36:30.600 And as you just said, it has this huge blast 0:36:30.680 --> 0:36:35.200 radius on our culture. You know, unbelievable levels of anxiety 0:36:35.239 --> 0:36:39.960 and depression and epidemic of suicide and drug overdoses out 0:36:40.000 --> 0:36:43.840 there in the world. So this sense of slipping behind 0:36:44.040 --> 0:36:48.040 that to your friends point of Americans at some level 0:36:48.080 --> 0:36:52.239 are experiencing has led us to this sense of kind 0:36:52.239 --> 0:36:56.680 of impending doom, which partially is creating this polarization. You 0:36:56.719 --> 0:37:00.480 talk about the concept of political stress as well, and 0:37:00.560 --> 0:37:02.640 this was an eye opener for me. You you reference 0:37:02.680 --> 0:37:06.480 a study that compares the level of animosity between the 0:37:06.560 --> 0:37:10.319 left and the right just before the Civil War and today, 0:37:10.400 --> 0:37:15.560 and I found that to be pretty disturbing. We should 0:37:15.560 --> 0:37:17.759 be disturbed and tie one of the messages I'm trying 0:37:17.760 --> 0:37:20.120 to convey to people is that everything is on the 0:37:20.160 --> 0:37:23.320 table in America now and by that what I generally 0:37:23.320 --> 0:37:26.520 mean the bad stuff, like whatever kind of dark dystopian 0:37:27.040 --> 0:37:30.080 scenario you can conjure, it's on the table. Uh. And 0:37:30.280 --> 0:37:33.279 this political stress index is measured by a scholar named 0:37:33.320 --> 0:37:36.920 Peter Urchin and his colleague. He goes through various variables 0:37:36.960 --> 0:37:39.880 mapping out the levels of political stress and different historical 0:37:39.920 --> 0:37:43.840 time periods. And we are apparently right now at Civil 0:37:43.880 --> 0:37:49.480 war levels of political stress by his measurements, which you 0:37:49.520 --> 0:37:51.839 can probably see and feel. I mean, right now, forty 0:37:51.920 --> 0:37:57.080 two of partisans regard their political opponents as evil or 0:37:57.360 --> 0:38:02.720 their mortal enemies. Uh. And that lead to again unimaginable 0:38:02.760 --> 0:38:06.560 scenarios becoming real. And we saw an example of this 0:38:06.600 --> 0:38:09.960 on January six, right exactly. And you point out that 0:38:10.040 --> 0:38:15.080 this is particularly dangerous simply because so many people in 0:38:15.120 --> 0:38:19.520 America are armed, like to the teeth three million firearms, 0:38:19.600 --> 0:38:21.640 most heavily armed society in the history of the world. 0:38:21.880 --> 0:38:24.840 Lest listeners think that this is all doom and gloom, 0:38:25.160 --> 0:38:27.240 or that the book was all about doom and gloom, 0:38:27.280 --> 0:38:30.080 that is far from the case. It bristles with new 0:38:30.120 --> 0:38:33.319 ideas to attack these problems. Too many actually to go 0:38:33.400 --> 0:38:36.000 into today. But I want to get to the main 0:38:36.080 --> 0:38:39.399 set of ideas that you have for solving this. You're 0:38:39.440 --> 0:38:42.640 proposing a new political party, the Forward Party. What are 0:38:42.640 --> 0:38:46.440 you trying to accomplish? The Forward Party is a popular 0:38:46.520 --> 0:38:52.399 movement that consists of registered Democrats, independents, and registered Republicans 0:38:52.440 --> 0:38:55.040 who want our system to work better. And what we're 0:38:55.040 --> 0:38:59.040 trying to do is improve the incentives and enable genuinely 0:38:59.160 --> 0:39:01.839 resilient to my oocracy moving forward. So I just want 0:39:01.840 --> 0:39:04.359 to go back to first principles for a second. If 0:39:04.360 --> 0:39:06.560 you look at the U s Constitution, there's nothing about 0:39:06.560 --> 0:39:09.920 a political party anywhere. It turns out the founding fathers 0:39:09.920 --> 0:39:13.600 were quite anti partisan. John Adams said, the biggest nightmare 0:39:13.600 --> 0:39:15.919 would be if you had two parties just clashing all 0:39:15.920 --> 0:39:19.680 the time. And and and I know it's pretty funny. 0:39:20.000 --> 0:39:23.560 And it turns out that if you're trying to avoid authoritarianism, 0:39:23.840 --> 0:39:26.239 duopoly is one of the worst types of structure as 0:39:26.280 --> 0:39:29.440 you could erect, because then you have a one party. 0:39:29.880 --> 0:39:32.800 Let's say it succumbs to bad leadership, and then everyone's 0:39:32.800 --> 0:39:35.120 political and seidim sort of followed that leader, and they 0:39:35.120 --> 0:39:37.680 can cast the other one side as the as the 0:39:38.120 --> 0:39:40.920 you know the worst of two evils, and then you 0:39:40.960 --> 0:39:44.520 have virtually no institutional safeguards. Um, if you look around 0:39:44.520 --> 0:39:48.280 the world, the UK has five parties, Germany has seven parties, 0:39:48.360 --> 0:39:51.719 Sweden has eight parties, Netherlands has eight teen parties. And 0:39:51.760 --> 0:39:54.000 so in that system, if you have a party sucome 0:39:54.080 --> 0:39:56.000 to bad leadership, then it's a problem. But it's not 0:39:56.040 --> 0:39:58.520 an existential threat. Is not authoritarians. It's like, oh, that 0:39:58.560 --> 0:40:00.799 party has a real lack of at the helm, Like, 0:40:00.880 --> 0:40:03.080 let's just wait for them to figure that that out. 0:40:03.440 --> 0:40:06.359 But a do apply is actually uniquely vulnerable. It's very 0:40:06.440 --> 0:40:10.040 very poorly designed. And and so what the Forward Party 0:40:10.320 --> 0:40:15.080 is trying to do is one reduced polarization by installing 0:40:15.520 --> 0:40:19.200 mechanisms of open primaries matrois voting, and to give rise 0:40:19.239 --> 0:40:23.719 to a genuinely multipolar system where not about us the 0:40:23.840 --> 0:40:26.279 third party. I hope there are five or seven or 0:40:26.560 --> 0:40:29.880 nine parties, because that would just be a much more resilient, 0:40:29.960 --> 0:40:34.200 dynamic system that would be resistant to authoritarianism to a 0:40:34.239 --> 0:40:39.799 much higher degree. Right, like a lot of regular Americans, 0:40:40.680 --> 0:40:45.840 I don't really understand how the party system works or 0:40:46.160 --> 0:40:49.799 why it is the way it is today. People have 0:40:49.880 --> 0:40:53.040 tried to start new parties in the past. Why has 0:40:53.120 --> 0:40:58.279 that not worked to date and why will this one work? Oh? 0:40:58.360 --> 0:41:01.399 Thank you, ty, this is a very good question. So 0:41:01.560 --> 0:41:04.839 our current version of this duopoly has been up and 0:41:04.920 --> 0:41:08.000 running for let's call it a hundred fifty years, give 0:41:08.040 --> 0:41:10.319 or take. And so the political parties just kind of 0:41:10.360 --> 0:41:13.120 came up and made their own rules and then debeat 0:41:13.160 --> 0:41:15.279 it up. We're like, okay, we're gonna have just you 0:41:15.400 --> 0:41:17.680 and us, and then if there is another party that emerges, 0:41:18.360 --> 0:41:22.520 d apply. Makes it very, very difficult. And part of 0:41:22.520 --> 0:41:25.120 it is the voting system, but it's also ballot access, 0:41:25.200 --> 0:41:31.080 it's access to resources. So the single biggest change really 0:41:31.120 --> 0:41:33.520 needs to be open primaries and ranked choice voting because 0:41:33.520 --> 0:41:35.719 in a closed party primary system you really have next 0:41:35.719 --> 0:41:37.920 to no chance. I can use New York City as 0:41:37.960 --> 0:41:40.719 an example. So there's a Democratic Party primary and it's 0:41:40.760 --> 0:41:46.640 closed and Democrats out number Republicans in this environment something 0:41:46.680 --> 0:41:49.480 like five to one. So the Democratic primaries where all 0:41:49.560 --> 0:41:53.680 the real action is or the decision making is um 0:41:53.760 --> 0:41:56.200 and that's the norm. So it does turn out that 0:41:56.239 --> 0:41:59.200 there are there's an independent running from air, there's a 0:41:59.239 --> 0:42:02.040 libertarian running mayor that that probably like all these people, 0:42:02.120 --> 0:42:06.239 but their their chances are next to nothing. So if 0:42:06.280 --> 0:42:09.680 you had open primaries and rank choices voting, then people 0:42:09.760 --> 0:42:13.799 can make their own case to everybody. Um. And then 0:42:13.880 --> 0:42:17.200 even if you'd still have Democrats win, because of the numbers, 0:42:17.600 --> 0:42:20.360 they would be much more likely to integrate aspects of 0:42:20.400 --> 0:42:23.480 other people's platform. You'd have different candidates emerge, and some 0:42:23.560 --> 0:42:26.520 of them would actually, in my opinion, not just influence policy, 0:42:26.560 --> 0:42:28.560 but some of them might pull up sets and win. UM. 0:42:28.840 --> 0:42:32.080 So a lot of it's a mechanics problem where if 0:42:32.120 --> 0:42:34.359 in the absence of open primaries and rank choice voting, 0:42:34.400 --> 0:42:36.920 it would be very, very difficult for any third party 0:42:36.960 --> 0:42:39.399 to emerge. And if you look at the numbers right now, 0:42:39.440 --> 0:42:43.279 six of Americans want a third party sixty percent. Thing 0:42:43.360 --> 0:42:46.920 both sides are out of touch. Independence out number Democrats 0:42:46.960 --> 0:42:49.840 or Republicans by almost two to one. So if you 0:42:49.880 --> 0:42:54.440 look at those numbers, there's a massive void to be filled, 0:42:54.719 --> 0:42:57.480 a massive vacuum. But the reason why the vacuum is 0:42:57.480 --> 0:43:00.719 so big is because the two parties have made it 0:43:00.719 --> 0:43:03.680 almost impossible for a third party to meaningfully emerge. You know, 0:43:03.840 --> 0:43:06.120 it's sort of circular, so you have to have a 0:43:06.160 --> 0:43:10.920 mechanism switch in the primary system understood and rank choice 0:43:11.000 --> 0:43:15.160 voting and open primaries, as I understand it, are kind 0:43:15.160 --> 0:43:18.160 of two great tastes that go great together. Could you 0:43:18.400 --> 0:43:21.279 unpack those a little bit for listeners, just explain how 0:43:21.280 --> 0:43:24.920 those two things work. Right now, Congress has a national 0:43:24.920 --> 0:43:29.240 approval rating of but the re election rate for individual 0:43:29.280 --> 0:43:32.640 members is you're almost assured of getting your job back 0:43:32.680 --> 0:43:34.400 if you want your job back, which most of them do. 0:43:34.680 --> 0:43:38.919 I mean, that's that's just crazy, that's in't that's unbelievable. Yeah, 0:43:39.000 --> 0:43:40.839 So then you look at the structures and say, how 0:43:40.920 --> 0:43:44.120 is this possible? And it turns out that three of 0:43:44.200 --> 0:43:46.920 the seats are safely democratic or safely Republican. If you 0:43:46.960 --> 0:43:49.640 get to the general you win. And so the entire 0:43:49.719 --> 0:43:53.320 name of the game for these three percent of representatives 0:43:53.320 --> 0:43:55.520 is just to avoid getting primaried. So how do you 0:43:55.560 --> 0:43:59.200 avoid getting primaried. You have to remain ideologically pure. You 0:43:59.239 --> 0:44:01.880 can't compromise is with the other side. If you do 0:44:02.000 --> 0:44:04.760 reach across the island compromise, you're more likely to get 0:44:04.800 --> 0:44:08.400 a challenger. So these incentives then push people into their 0:44:08.440 --> 0:44:12.960 corners and say working together is wrong and evil. So 0:44:13.000 --> 0:44:16.200 that's the system in part because if I am a 0:44:16.239 --> 0:44:19.040 member of Congress, I'm not taking my case to the 0:44:19.080 --> 0:44:22.160 general public. I'm taking my case to the ten or 0:44:22.200 --> 0:44:25.160 twenty most extreme voters in my district who are going 0:44:25.200 --> 0:44:28.120 to vote in the primary, either on the Republican side 0:44:28.160 --> 0:44:31.279 or the Democratic side. So the first step is to say, look, 0:44:31.680 --> 0:44:34.680 how about we have open primaries where anyone can vote 0:44:35.239 --> 0:44:38.520 uh when you're up a reelection, and that way immediately, 0:44:38.560 --> 0:44:41.960 instead of just having to appeal to the seventeen percent 0:44:42.040 --> 0:44:45.040 most extreme voters, you have to appeal to the general public, 0:44:45.320 --> 0:44:49.240 which would be an enormous moderating influence. Now, the mechanics 0:44:49.320 --> 0:44:51.080 of it are such that if you had open primaries 0:44:51.080 --> 0:44:54.200 without rank choice voting, then a scenario could occur where 0:44:54.239 --> 0:44:56.760 you have two Republicans and one Democrat, or two Democrats 0:44:56.800 --> 0:44:59.399 and Republican and you kind of cannabalize each other's votes. 0:44:59.440 --> 0:45:02.600 And that's the spoiler effect that everyone gets so upset about. 0:45:03.000 --> 0:45:05.000 So if you have ranked choice voting, then it eliminates 0:45:05.000 --> 0:45:08.080 a spoiler effect. You can vote for multiple candidates. If 0:45:08.120 --> 0:45:11.040 your top choice doesn't go through, then your vote flows 0:45:11.080 --> 0:45:13.800 through to the second person until someone gets a majority. 0:45:14.239 --> 0:45:16.680 Like you said, there to taste that taste great together, 0:45:16.760 --> 0:45:18.760 where if you have open primaries and ranked choice voting, 0:45:18.920 --> 0:45:22.760 they're actually both kind of moderating impulses because to succeed 0:45:22.760 --> 0:45:24.680 in a ranked choice voting field, you have to get 0:45:24.719 --> 0:45:26.920 a majority of people to at least be okay with you, 0:45:27.400 --> 0:45:32.440 and that tends to reward the coalition builders and punish 0:45:32.480 --> 0:45:37.520 the extremes. Yeah, incredibly important. So one of the other 0:45:38.000 --> 0:45:42.120 um planks I guess of this party is something that 0:45:42.160 --> 0:45:45.960 you term human centered capitalism. That's a topic that is 0:45:46.000 --> 0:45:47.839 near and dear to my heart. You know, we're not 0:45:47.920 --> 0:45:50.560 trying to throw capitalism out, we're just trying to evolve it. 0:45:50.920 --> 0:45:53.160 Can you talk about you know, the way that you 0:45:53.200 --> 0:45:56.160 think about that. Right now, you have these economic indicators 0:45:56.200 --> 0:45:59.879 that are GDP and stock market prices, and they're going 0:46:00.080 --> 0:46:03.040 been up even as more people are sinking into the dirt. 0:46:04.000 --> 0:46:07.319 So what I believe we should do is take our 0:46:07.400 --> 0:46:09.319 human well being and look at it the same way 0:46:09.320 --> 0:46:11.279 we do stock market prices and say, Okay, how are 0:46:11.320 --> 0:46:13.800 the kids doing, you know, how how are people doing, 0:46:14.440 --> 0:46:16.360 how are communities doing? And then if you saw that, 0:46:16.400 --> 0:46:19.040 you would see we're doing very poorly. And then you'd 0:46:19.040 --> 0:46:21.560 look up to our leaders and say, hey, you know, 0:46:21.880 --> 0:46:26.320 still bad this year, Like, maybe you should focus on 0:46:26.320 --> 0:46:29.040 on how we're doing as opposed to um, you know, 0:46:29.160 --> 0:46:33.279 scoring political points. And so as someone who's run organizations, 0:46:33.320 --> 0:46:35.759 if you have the wrong measurements, you'll head in a 0:46:35.880 --> 0:46:39.560 very specific direction, right, And and so that is that 0:46:39.640 --> 0:46:43.360 leads to that that question you've you've long maintained that 0:46:43.480 --> 0:46:47.040 GDP is absolutely the wrong thing to be measuring. What 0:46:47.160 --> 0:46:50.160 should we be measuring. We should be measuring our health, 0:46:50.239 --> 0:46:53.360 our mental health, our kids ability to learn, our environmental 0:46:53.440 --> 0:47:00.200 quality are affordability and access to healthcare and education. And 0:47:00.400 --> 0:47:02.320 when I went around the country and I asked people 0:47:02.480 --> 0:47:05.400 about how they're feeling and doing, I mean it's pretty 0:47:05.400 --> 0:47:08.720 tough for for a lot of folks. Anxiety, depression, deaths 0:47:08.719 --> 0:47:11.200 of despair, or substance abuse. I mean, like those are 0:47:11.200 --> 0:47:14.360 the things they're seeing more and more. Right, One of 0:47:14.360 --> 0:47:17.480 the other ideas that jumped out to me beyond universal 0:47:17.480 --> 0:47:22.439 basic income, which obviously you got this into the national conversation, 0:47:22.719 --> 0:47:27.160 and it does appear to be slowly gaining traction, particularly 0:47:27.200 --> 0:47:30.920 during the pandemic. For instance, you also bring in the 0:47:30.960 --> 0:47:35.239 idea of grace and tolerance. One of the things that 0:47:35.280 --> 0:47:37.759 you say on the on the Forward Party website is 0:47:37.840 --> 0:47:41.120 most parties need an enemy. Our enemy is those who 0:47:41.120 --> 0:47:45.200 would cast our fellow Americans as enemies and as an 0:47:45.200 --> 0:47:49.319 existential threat. And I just wondered if you could talk 0:47:49.360 --> 0:47:54.160 more about that, because that that seems like the hardest 0:47:54.440 --> 0:47:57.240 thing to do. In a way, it's the softest language, 0:47:57.320 --> 0:48:00.000 grace and tolerance, but it's it's the thing that seemed 0:48:00.120 --> 0:48:04.239 to be most important, is to just stop demonizing each other. 0:48:04.600 --> 0:48:06.680 Grace and and tolerance, to me, is what's missing in 0:48:06.719 --> 0:48:10.200 American political life, and part because our incentives are all 0:48:10.200 --> 0:48:13.799 around getting people upset and angry. Where if I want 0:48:13.800 --> 0:48:16.120 to raise money for a cause, I'll talk about, hey, 0:48:16.160 --> 0:48:18.360 these people are trying to take away this. These people 0:48:18.520 --> 0:48:22.560 are wrong, immoral, and we need money to fight them, 0:48:23.120 --> 0:48:29.319 and that that's typically more successful than Look, they're human 0:48:29.360 --> 0:48:32.320 beings like us, they're Americans. You know, we we disagree, 0:48:32.400 --> 0:48:35.120 but let's try and find common ground. But you need 0:48:35.160 --> 0:48:39.840 a positive, unifying voice and force in American politics to 0:48:39.920 --> 0:48:42.719 try and tamp down the polarization that's just getting worse 0:48:42.760 --> 0:48:45.440 and worse. And part again, because all the incentives are 0:48:45.520 --> 0:48:49.960 driving us into corners where we'll attack the other side. Yeah, 0:48:50.000 --> 0:48:52.880 I mean on this topic of grace and tolerance, some 0:48:52.960 --> 0:48:57.520 would say that, you know, in quote, the other side, 0:48:58.239 --> 0:49:00.640 no matter which side we're talking about, is so far 0:49:00.760 --> 0:49:05.880 gone that they're irredeemable. What do you say to folks 0:49:05.880 --> 0:49:08.239 who feel that way? I think if you feel that way, 0:49:08.280 --> 0:49:10.240 you really need to get down and talk to folks 0:49:10.320 --> 0:49:13.839 who might represent the tribe or group you're thinking of. 0:49:14.239 --> 0:49:17.319 Seventy five million people voted for Donald Trump. Like trying 0:49:17.360 --> 0:49:21.440 to categorize seventy million in one ideological bucket, or like 0:49:21.520 --> 0:49:25.200 having certain attitudes I think is impossible, really, you know, 0:49:25.239 --> 0:49:28.160 and like I have family members who voted for Trump, 0:49:28.239 --> 0:49:30.600 and so you could take any group of people and 0:49:30.640 --> 0:49:33.799 as long as you start humanizing them, you realize that 0:49:33.840 --> 0:49:36.520 we're being played and said against each other. One of 0:49:36.520 --> 0:49:38.400 the big lessons I learned and I tried to present 0:49:38.440 --> 0:49:41.799 in my book is that all politics is now tribal um. 0:49:42.080 --> 0:49:45.040 You think it's about policy, it's not. The correlation between 0:49:45.520 --> 0:49:48.160 what someone does politically or the way they identify and 0:49:48.200 --> 0:49:50.480 what they think about policy is actually very low. It's 0:49:50.520 --> 0:49:55.240 point to five according to one study. So in that context, 0:49:55.280 --> 0:49:58.839 you think Okay, it turns out we agree on let's 0:49:58.880 --> 0:50:03.439 call it lower drug prices or maybe even basic income. Now, um, 0:50:03.520 --> 0:50:06.640 so what is it we're disagreeing about? And we're disagreeing 0:50:06.719 --> 0:50:11.000 because we've been tribalized and trained to feel like the 0:50:11.000 --> 0:50:14.160 other tribe has lost it? Now. Are there dark and 0:50:14.239 --> 0:50:18.480 unsavory elements, uh, and extremes in any large group? Yes, 0:50:18.840 --> 0:50:22.479 but you don't want to characterize like a massive group 0:50:22.560 --> 0:50:24.680 or in this case literally tens of millions of people 0:50:24.680 --> 0:50:28.719 are half the country in a way that really erases 0:50:28.760 --> 0:50:31.480 their humanity. And that's what I think we're in danger 0:50:31.480 --> 0:50:34.800 of doing. Yeah. Some would argue that grace and tolerance 0:50:34.840 --> 0:50:37.919 have always been scarce in America, basically depending on who 0:50:37.920 --> 0:50:42.080 you are. And you opened by talking about the fact 0:50:42.160 --> 0:50:45.760 that you're a child of immigrants, Immigrants, people of color, 0:50:45.840 --> 0:50:50.400 indigenous people haven't experienced a lot of grace and tolerance 0:50:50.719 --> 0:50:55.000 from the beginning. What would you say to them? Well, 0:50:55.040 --> 0:50:58.520 what I would say is that, Uh, this country has 0:50:58.560 --> 0:51:00.799 a promise and this country he has not lived up 0:51:00.800 --> 0:51:04.759 to its promise in many, many historical circumstances. And there 0:51:04.840 --> 0:51:07.160 is an unfairness to ask someone who has been put 0:51:07.160 --> 0:51:10.719 in that position to embrace grace in tolerance if it 0:51:10.719 --> 0:51:14.080 has not been shown to you. But that is our 0:51:14.440 --> 0:51:18.680 better bet really in my view. You know, and because 0:51:18.719 --> 0:51:22.040 it's more difficult or even unfair, it does not make 0:51:22.080 --> 0:51:25.200 it any less necessary or powerful and actually makes it 0:51:25.280 --> 0:51:29.400 more powerful in my opinion. Yeah, and the alternative is unthinkable. 0:51:29.560 --> 0:51:31.680 So the alternative is going to lead us to ruin, 0:51:31.800 --> 0:51:33.600 and I don't believe that's going to lead us where 0:51:33.600 --> 0:51:36.000 we want to go. I mean that that leads me 0:51:36.040 --> 0:51:39.960 to another question I had, which is, you know, you 0:51:40.040 --> 0:51:43.319 launched on October fourth, so it's still pretty recent, but 0:51:43.360 --> 0:51:46.319 how do you feel about the reaction so far? The 0:51:46.320 --> 0:51:48.400 action has been tremendous, and one of the things that 0:51:48.480 --> 0:51:51.120 most encouraged by is that groups of independent voters and 0:51:51.120 --> 0:51:53.080 third parties have actually already reached out to the Forward 0:51:53.080 --> 0:51:55.520 Party to say, hey, let's make common cause and work 0:51:55.560 --> 0:52:01.040 together because they see that this is something that everyone 0:52:01.080 --> 0:52:05.160 who wants to modernize the duopoly should be behind. I 0:52:05.200 --> 0:52:07.839 think if you're you know, like a partisan, you should 0:52:07.840 --> 0:52:10.000 behind this too, because you're like, look like the system 0:52:10.080 --> 0:52:13.560 is just really really vulnerable. You know, this is not 0:52:13.680 --> 0:52:17.279 very smart. Right, So in terms of you and and 0:52:17.440 --> 0:52:20.040 your plans. You know, you've You've run for president, You've 0:52:20.120 --> 0:52:24.040 run for the the mayor of New York. Are you 0:52:24.080 --> 0:52:26.840 going to run again in the future? Do you? Or 0:52:26.920 --> 0:52:30.080 do you feel like you Your job is to concentrate 0:52:30.080 --> 0:52:33.080 on coalition building and get this party off the ground. 0:52:33.320 --> 0:52:38.400 I'm determined to try to lighten up this polarization that's 0:52:38.520 --> 0:52:41.520 really threatening to destroy us. And so that means these 0:52:41.560 --> 0:52:45.200 balt initiatives, elevating like minded candidates. He'll be endorsing candidates 0:52:45.200 --> 0:52:48.680 and campaigning for them. So that's where my attention is. 0:52:48.680 --> 0:52:53.640 Is this democracy reform package, this structural incentive fix. It's 0:52:53.640 --> 0:52:56.960 gonna keep me very busy for the time being, but 0:52:57.040 --> 0:52:59.040 I'm fired up about it. I don't know what my 0:52:59.120 --> 0:53:01.239 future holds in terms of my running for office as 0:53:01.239 --> 0:53:04.359 a candidate, genuinely, you know, like I'm not playing coy, 0:53:04.480 --> 0:53:09.240 Like I really don't know what that looks like. Awesome, Andrew, 0:53:09.440 --> 0:53:12.120 last question, I asked this of every guest on the show. 0:53:12.400 --> 0:53:14.880 You know, our thesis is that we're trying to point 0:53:14.920 --> 0:53:19.720 out companies or organizations or countries in this case where 0:53:19.800 --> 0:53:24.920 there maybe a delta between the mission and the current 0:53:24.960 --> 0:53:29.239 state of affairs. And we've created a scale. We call 0:53:29.280 --> 0:53:33.200 it the bullshit scale. So zero is the best scores 0:53:33.360 --> 0:53:37.040 zero bullshit. There is no delta between word indeed, and 0:53:37.200 --> 0:53:44.800 one hundred is total total. So in on that scale, 0:53:45.160 --> 0:53:48.160 if our mission is life, liberty in the pursuit of happiness, 0:53:48.840 --> 0:53:52.520 how are we doing right now? Wow, that it's tough 0:53:52.560 --> 0:53:54.680 to throw a number on this. What what what I've 0:53:54.920 --> 0:53:56.680 said in my book and what I feel and believe 0:53:57.520 --> 0:53:59.600 is that right now we're not going to come close 0:53:59.640 --> 0:54:02.120 to full feeling the promise of America because our system 0:54:02.239 --> 0:54:05.279 is not set up for success. So if you were 0:54:05.320 --> 0:54:07.399 to say to me, hey, like, how are we doing 0:54:07.400 --> 0:54:09.839 on the BS meter? Unfortunately, the BS meter is going 0:54:09.880 --> 0:54:13.279 off when it comes to the United States and it's 0:54:13.320 --> 0:54:15.719 ability of fulfilled probs. It's one reason why we're all 0:54:15.800 --> 0:54:19.240 feeling like we're in deep trouble. I mean, like the 0:54:19.239 --> 0:54:22.719 promises not being fulfilled by a long shot. And so 0:54:22.800 --> 0:54:25.000 that that's what we have to change, and it's going 0:54:25.040 --> 0:54:28.200 to require very significant systemic change like that. This is 0:54:28.200 --> 0:54:30.719 not like an incremental type situation, you know what I mean? 0:54:30.840 --> 0:54:33.279 We can all feel that. That's like the energy and 0:54:33.320 --> 0:54:36.040 the anger is building up, it's it's hitting in very 0:54:36.160 --> 0:54:39.359 very nasty directions, and so we need to try and 0:54:39.400 --> 0:54:42.440 get that BS meter closer to zero as quickly as possible. 0:54:42.480 --> 0:54:46.040 But right now it's it's running into the danger zone. Yeah, 0:54:46.200 --> 0:54:50.960 I would have to agree, unfortunately. But the future is 0:54:50.960 --> 0:54:53.239 a big place and you're going to play a big 0:54:53.280 --> 0:54:55.919 part in it. So I wanna thank you for being 0:54:55.920 --> 0:54:58.680 here today. Andrew's been great talking with you, and I 0:54:58.719 --> 0:55:01.239 really wish you the best for the Forward Party. Thank you, 0:55:01.280 --> 0:55:04.719 TI really grateful and again everyone listening to this. At 0:55:04.760 --> 0:55:07.719 this point, everything is on the table, so we might 0:55:07.760 --> 0:55:09.520 as well make good stuff on the table as well 0:55:09.520 --> 0:55:11.560 as bad stuff. So let's get some more good stuff 0:55:11.600 --> 0:55:22.800 on the table. Amen. Brother. One of the emerging themes 0:55:22.800 --> 0:55:26.200 of this season is purpose led organizations that have lost 0:55:26.239 --> 0:55:30.120 their way for one reason or another. America is one 0:55:30.160 --> 0:55:33.680 of them. To find our way back, we have to 0:55:33.760 --> 0:55:38.520 rejuvenate our shared purpose because a shared purpose is the 0:55:38.560 --> 0:55:42.759 glue that holds people together. That's true for companies and 0:55:42.800 --> 0:55:46.319 it's true for countries too. Making sure that you have 0:55:46.440 --> 0:55:49.320 a great purpose and that you are living that purpose 0:55:49.719 --> 0:55:52.880 is a way to make sure that the glue remains strong, 0:55:53.600 --> 0:55:57.239 and it makes organizations of all sizes, resilient over the 0:55:57.280 --> 0:56:00.400 long haul. I'd like to end the show it today 0:56:00.440 --> 0:56:05.080 by giving America an official Bullshit score based a lot 0:56:05.120 --> 0:56:09.959 I've heard today. I'm giving America a sixty two. That's 0:56:09.960 --> 0:56:12.799 pretty high, and I'm sure we all want to see 0:56:12.840 --> 0:56:16.240 it come down. To weigh in with your own score, 0:56:16.640 --> 0:56:18.959 or to leave us an audio message with your take 0:56:19.000 --> 0:56:22.040 on this episode that could be played in our season 0:56:22.160 --> 0:56:27.560 wrap up, visit our website Calling Bullshit Podcast dot com. 0:56:27.760 --> 0:56:30.799 We'll also track America's behavior over time to see if 0:56:30.840 --> 0:56:33.960 we can bring that score down, and you'll also be 0:56:34.040 --> 0:56:37.680 able to see where America ranks on BS compared to 0:56:37.719 --> 0:56:40.800 the other companies and organizations we feature on the show. 0:56:41.719 --> 0:56:44.560 And if you're running a purpose led organization or you're 0:56:44.680 --> 0:56:47.879 thinking of beginning the journey of transformation to become one, 0:56:48.440 --> 0:56:52.640 here are three things you should take away from this episode. One, 0:56:53.680 --> 0:56:56.680 A powerful and unique purpose can give you a major 0:56:56.719 --> 0:57:00.400 advantage over your competitors by helping you attract more time, haunted, 0:57:00.520 --> 0:57:04.839 and more motivated people. There is no better example of 0:57:04.880 --> 0:57:08.840 that than America. Our purpose, when it was first expressed 0:57:08.880 --> 0:57:13.319 over two years ago, attracted so much motivated talent that 0:57:13.400 --> 0:57:18.160 we quickly moved to a leadership position in the world. Two, 0:57:18.800 --> 0:57:22.600 A great purpose invites people to not only join, but 0:57:22.800 --> 0:57:27.120 also to participate. A smart question to ask yourself is 0:57:27.720 --> 0:57:31.400 how can people actively participate in helping us to achieve 0:57:31.560 --> 0:57:36.080 our purpose? In America's case, Andrew Yang talked about some 0:57:36.240 --> 0:57:40.200 great ideas today for making our system easier to participate 0:57:40.280 --> 0:57:46.880 in open primaries and rank choice voting. And Three, a 0:57:47.040 --> 0:57:50.720 great purpose is only as good as the actions you 0:57:50.800 --> 0:57:54.720 take to make it real. In America's case, no matter 0:57:54.760 --> 0:57:57.840 how many times we say we're the land of opportunity 0:57:58.040 --> 0:58:01.480 and that all of us are created equal, if we 0:58:01.520 --> 0:58:04.840 don't make those things true for more people through action, 0:58:05.680 --> 0:58:09.959 they'll lose faith. A lot of us already have. Your 0:58:10.000 --> 0:58:13.800 purpose will undoubtedly be different than America's, as will the 0:58:13.880 --> 0:58:17.240 actions you'll need to take to make it real. Just 0:58:17.360 --> 0:58:28.640 remember doing is believing. I'd like to thank everyone who 0:58:28.720 --> 0:58:35.760 joined us today, Adrian Bonnenberger, Andrean Clark, Yvan Clark, Jonathan Craig, 0:58:36.320 --> 0:58:44.160 Jaki cho Today we means, MICHAELA. Read, David Safabian, Basil Soaper, 0:58:44.880 --> 0:58:49.720 Penelope Soaper, and Andrew Yang. Find out more about our 0:58:49.800 --> 0:58:53.560 guests today, including their social handles on our website Calling 0:58:53.600 --> 0:58:58.240 Bullshit Podcast dot com and check out Andrew's latest book, 0:58:58.880 --> 0:59:03.760 Forwards on the future of our democracy. If you have 0:59:03.920 --> 0:59:07.960 ideas for companies organizations we should consider for future episodes, 0:59:08.520 --> 0:59:11.480 you can submit them on the site too, And if 0:59:11.520 --> 0:59:15.080 we made you feel like pledging allegiance today, subscribe to 0:59:15.120 --> 0:59:18.440 the Calling Bullshit Podcast on the I Heart Radio app, 0:59:19.000 --> 0:59:24.320 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And thanks 0:59:24.320 --> 0:59:29.720 to our production team Hannah Beale, Amanda Ginsburg, Andy Kim 0:59:29.840 --> 0:59:37.080 d s Moss, Hailey Pascalites, MICHAELA. Reid, Parker Silzer, Basil 0:59:37.200 --> 0:59:42.000 Soaper and me John Zulu. Calling Bullshit was created by 0:59:42.040 --> 0:59:45.560 co Collective and is hosted by Me Time onto you. 0:59:46.320 --> 0:59:55.360 Thanks for listening before you go, we'd love to hear 0:59:55.360 --> 0:59:58.320 what you think about the show. Maybe you were inspired 0:59:58.360 --> 1:00:01.760 to take action. Maybe you' disagree with today's bullshit rating. 1:00:02.040 --> 1:00:04.960 Either way, we want to hear about it. Leave us 1:00:05.000 --> 1:00:09.360 a message at two one two five oh five zero five, 1:00:09.480 --> 1:00:12.320 or send a voice memo to CBS podcast at co 1:00:12.360 --> 1:00:15.840 Collective dot com. You might even be featured on an 1:00:15.920 --> 1:00:16.920 upcoming episode.