1 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:12,880 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keene with 2 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: David Gura. Daily we bring you insight from the best 3 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:22,279 Speaker 1: of economics, finance, investment, and international relations. Find Bloomberg Surveillance 4 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, Bloomberg dot Com, and of course, 5 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: on the Bloomberg Born On a Monday, the twenty one 6 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 1: of August. This is Bloomberg Surveillance on Bloomberg Radio. I'm 7 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: David Gura in New York. Francine Lackway is in London. 8 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 1: Tom Keene is off this week, and I love this 9 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 1: story that fran and Scarlett food Wolf last week that 10 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: I heard about second hand. Tom and I were taking 11 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: time off to climb Mount Everest, I gather well with 12 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: the summit insight. One of us had to turn back 13 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: to host the show, and here I am. Our first 14 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: guest is Nathan Sheets. He joins us in our Bloomberg 15 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: eleven three studios. He's the chief economist at pe JIM 16 00:00:57,720 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: Fixed Income. Of course, former Under Secretary of the Trade 17 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: for International Affairs. Join me and Francy on TV now 18 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:04,839 Speaker 1: here on radio as well. Great to have you with us, Nathan, 19 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,040 Speaker 1: and let me start by looking forward to the meetings 20 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: in Jackson Hole. A little bit later this week, we 21 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: talked about this someone on television, What are you listening for? What? What? 22 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: What normally transpires at Jackson Hole? As much as you 23 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:18,839 Speaker 1: can say what normally transpires it at this annual event, 24 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: what are you gonna be listening for? So, I think 25 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: the UH the key in these meetings is what we 26 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: hear about the inflation process. UH. Central banks are very 27 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: focused on why, on the one hand, the global economy 28 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: is performing well, but on the other hand, why inflation 29 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: is as low as it is. And I think that 30 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: there will be a lot of a lot of reflections 31 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: and thinking about whether the inflation process has changed in 32 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: some significant way, for example, as a result of shifting 33 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: demographics or deep change UH in the economy. We heard 34 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: her make the case UH now a few months back 35 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: that the inflationary headwines we're seeing her transitory UH. She 36 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: has since walked that back a little bit. But how 37 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 1: much of the conversation do you think it's going to 38 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: center on that the temporariness of what we're seeing. So, 39 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: I would say, particularly in the United States, that is 40 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: a key question. There are some temporary factors that have 41 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: influenced UH, consumer prices of late UH medical costs of 42 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 1: influenced the CPI, UH cell phone plans, and so forth. 43 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: But it does feel more and more like that's only 44 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: part of the story. And the fact that this soft 45 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 1: inflation performance is is echoed and many other of the 46 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 1: advanced economies UH in recent months suggests that maybe there's 47 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 1: something deeper, deeper at play, what Nathan, And if it 48 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: is something deeper, do we need to try and fix 49 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: that at the root of the cause, or do we 50 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 1: just need to look at a different set of numbers. 51 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: So I think for UH, for central banks, the question 52 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 1: of what is driving this is a very deep one UH. 53 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 1: I think part of it may have to do with 54 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,640 Speaker 1: UH the fact that inflation has been very low for 55 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: a long time. At Once inflation expectations are anchored, it 56 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: becomes very difficult to to raise them. I think that 57 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: the experience in Japan UH in in in recent years 58 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: very much highlights highlights that challenge UH. So this is 59 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: this is a very tough set of issues. Is it 60 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: just temporary UH? Is there something deeper at play? And 61 00:03:55,280 --> 00:04:00,080 Speaker 1: ultimately the issue of what what drives inflation expectations for consumer? 62 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 1: Nathan were you surprised? So the both the European Central 63 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 1: Bank and the Fed kept on saying that actually, inflation 64 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: will be fine in a couple of quarters once you 65 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 1: know the market, the labor market start stabilizing and that 66 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: will feed into wage growth. And they've kind of had 67 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: to reassess that and go with what the market was expecting. 68 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: Does that mean they lose credibility? So? Uh, The baseline 69 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 1: macroeconomic models UH focus on the relationship between slack in 70 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 1: the labor market, the unemployment rate UH, and inflation. And 71 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: I really think that even in this very tough situation 72 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,919 Speaker 1: and circumstances that central banks are in, that that relationship 73 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 1: is the best that the central banks have to go on. 74 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: But as you suggest, their confidence in that model is 75 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: is uh not as great as as it has been 76 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: in the past. And so I think they're having to, uh, 77 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: in some sense drive by looking through the rear view 78 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 1: mirror and look at where the economy has been and 79 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 1: where it is and where it has been and is 80 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: is a place where inflation remains very very low. Maybe 81 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 1: we had this ECB form a few weeks back in 82 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: Portugal and and there was news there about a new 83 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:25,479 Speaker 1: effort of coordination among central banks. Do you expect that 84 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 1: conversation to to continue that that form ended up making 85 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: a lot more news, I think than a lot of 86 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: people expected, in part because there was some marketing misinterpretation 87 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: of what Mario Dragging and others had to had to say. 88 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: Did you expect there to be continuity between that conference 89 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:42,039 Speaker 1: in this one? So I would say the issue of 90 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 1: central bank cooperation is one that is sometimes I think misunderstood. 91 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 1: The FED, UH, the CB, the Bank of England primarily 92 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: have domestic man dates for price stability and for the 93 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: FED in addition UH full employment, So when they're talking 94 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 1: about cooperation, it is primarily an exercise in information sharing, 95 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:15,479 Speaker 1: in relationship building, and only in very rare instances is 96 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: that the formal coordination of policy. Now, of course we're 97 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: in a global economy and central banks have to pay 98 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: attention to what other central banks are doing because there 99 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 1: are meaningful there are meaningful spillover effects. But I wouldn't 100 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:36,479 Speaker 1: expect there to be much talk in Jackson Hole of 101 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 1: a formal coordination, but a lot of of of times 102 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: bank comparing notes and better understanding what other central banks 103 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 1: are thinking and how they're assessing the developments in their economy. 104 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: We're at this point in the conversation about central banking 105 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:55,719 Speaker 1: where you pull up a speech and you do control 106 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: left and you try to find all the instances of 107 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: the word taper or or derivations thereof. Is Marito drag 108 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: under pressure to to say more about the tapering process 109 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: at this point. I think that that Mario Draggy will 110 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: be moving in a very uh, deliberate way on his 111 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: communications strategy. And I think these reports we've heard of 112 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: the last week or so that he's likely to focus 113 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: on international economic issues and less on tapering and the 114 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: trajectory of monetary policy in the year area are are credible. 115 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: So I think it will be a very interesting presentation, 116 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: but may be somewhat more of an academic intellectual exercise 117 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: than a blueprint for where the ECB will be headed. 118 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: Where's what should the ECB worry about their Italian elections? 119 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 1: Unclear which way they would go if they were to 120 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: be held now, and they have to be held before 121 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: March of next year. Yeah, there are significant political risks 122 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: uh for the CB to be factoring in, and I 123 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: think that very much forms a backdrop for them. I 124 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: would say an imminent concern for them is as they 125 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: start thinking about reducing the size of their purchases, what 126 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: does that mean for bond markets in Europe? And particularly 127 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: does tapering pose any risks for bond markets in Italy 128 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: and Portugal where UH the ECB has been a significant 129 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 1: a significant borrower. I think there is an underlying story 130 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:40,320 Speaker 1: in these countries of recovery and stronger economic performance. But 131 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:44,119 Speaker 1: even so, having the e c B reduced the purchases 132 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: and ultimately exit could have implications for demanding yields in 133 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: those economies. Nathan in twenty seconds, should they worry about 134 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: the level of the euros and getting too high? The 135 00:08:55,360 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: e c B UH watches the euro close a UH, 136 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 1: and levels UH such as what we have today in 137 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: the past have drawn comment from the e c B. 138 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: On the other hand, the euroeconomy is performing very well 139 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: and a stronger European economy is able to absorb a 140 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: stronger currency and UH and continue to grow at an 141 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: acceptable pace. So there's a balance there, but the e 142 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,079 Speaker 1: c B will be paying attention to it closely, all right, Nathan, 143 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Nathan Sheets there PGIM Chief Economists 144 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 1: stays with us at your region bunds today gaining with 145 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: treasuries while the dollar is steady after the drop we 146 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 1: saw on Friday. Of course, it's all about to the 147 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: central bankers meeting at Jackson Hole. As Nathan was saying, 148 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: it's about growing and knees about persistent low inflation that 149 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 1: we'll be watching out for and what they can do 150 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: about it. This is Bloomberg here with Nathan Sheets of 151 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: p Jim formerly the Treasury Department or Bloomberg eleven three 152 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,559 Speaker 1: oh studios, having a conversation about monetary policy. Maybe we'll 153 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: talk a little about fiscal policy as well. Help us 154 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: understand the degree to which personnel matters that at this point, Nathan, 155 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: there's a new survey of economists sound indicating that a 156 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:05,439 Speaker 1: lot of them, the majority of them, think that Gary 157 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: Cone is going to be the next uh FED share 158 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: you look at what this president, this administration is going 159 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: to be able to do with regard to appointments, and 160 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 1: uh he the president could radically change the configuration of 161 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: the FED. What's your sense of how that's going to 162 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 1: change policy going forward? So on the one hand, by 163 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 1: sense is that, uh, personnelity is crucially important and who 164 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 1: is who is leading the Federal Reserve is is very significant, 165 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: and issues about their background and how they view the 166 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 1: world and how how flexible they may be in implementing 167 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: monetary policy versus how rules based they may be could 168 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: have a very different implications for where US um monetary 169 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: policy is headed. But it's also the case that there 170 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: is a fair amount of of inertia inside of the 171 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: Federal Reserve, and part of that reflects the fact that 172 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 1: you have reserve bank presidents who have long tenures and 173 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 1: they have significant impact on the trajectory of policy, and 174 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: the Federal Reserve staff is is very influential in framing 175 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: the policy decisions. So I do expect that the changes 176 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 1: in personnel that are likely over the next year or 177 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: two at the FED are likely to change the tone 178 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:43,119 Speaker 1: of of FED communication and to some extent, the trajectory 179 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: of policy, but it won't be an abrupt shift or 180 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:52,080 Speaker 1: an abrupt discontinuity in in FED policy. With some regularity, 181 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: we hear the clarion call from the Treasury Department about 182 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: the dead ceiling, raising the dead ceiling. We're hearing it 183 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 1: again from from this new Treasury Secretary. Steve Lution would 184 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:02,319 Speaker 1: like to see that done cleanly, he'd like to see 185 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 1: it done on time. He's already begun to use so 186 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 1: called extraordinary measures to make sure the government can continue 187 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: to pay the bills that that come. How much has 188 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: this conversation changed. How worried are you about the government 189 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 1: raising the debt ceiling here on the heels of an 190 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 1: August congressional recess. As a as a macro economist, they 191 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 1: would say, one of the very important third rails UH 192 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: for US policy is taking steps to continue to foster 193 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: confidence in the US government and our ability to make 194 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 1: good on our obligations. As a as an economist, I 195 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: see UH significant downside and essentially no upside to pushing 196 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: the issue of of of of funding the government and 197 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: the debt ceiling to the very to the very brink. 198 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: It's uh, it's UH. It's important that we get this 199 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 1: issue resolved, and we get it resolved constructively. Now that's said, 200 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:11,079 Speaker 1: I do worry that the political dynamics afoot are likely 201 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: to make this UH more challenging rather than less challenging. UH. 202 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 1: With in the past, the Democrats owned the government, the 203 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: Republicans were the challengers in the opposition, but it's not 204 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 1: clear who owns UH. Continuing the government's operations in the 205 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 1: current in the current configuration, and I think that creates 206 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: uh some potential UH stresses and challenges and getting this 207 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: issue resolved over the next several weeks. Nathan, whose job 208 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 1: is it to to make it workable? I don't know. 209 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:52,319 Speaker 1: Is it the president's? Is it the chiefest off? I 210 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: think ultimately, UH, it is responsibility of the President of 211 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: the United States, along with the Speaker of the House 212 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: and the majority leader in the Senate, to engineer an 213 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: approach that UH manages a solution to this problem. UH. 214 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 1: That they are the leadership, they are the political leadership, 215 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: and this is a political problem, and it's one that 216 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: there's no really there's no option other than to find 217 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: a solution. Right, But how does he do that? How 218 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: much political capital has he lost so far with Republicans? 219 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: And how does he regain the trust? I think that 220 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: that the congressional Republicans. Uh, there is within the Republican 221 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: caucuses in the Senate, in the House, there are a 222 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: lot of centrifugal forces, UH, a lot of differing views 223 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 1: and UH, it's it's it's going to be a challenge, UH. 224 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: And it's not clear how we get from where we 225 00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: are today, uh to a place where uh the leadership 226 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: that I described, the President, the Speaker, and the Majority 227 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 1: leader are able to leverage the Republican caucus and uh 228 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: for for for Dad's ceiling, they also need some Democratic votes. 229 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 1: That's going to require sixty votes in the Senate. Nathan 230 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: Sheets for generous with your time this morning doing TV 231 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 1: and radio with us. This is Bloomberg Surveillance on bloom Burgrinder. 232 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: Nathan Sheets of p Jim joining us on our Bloomberg 233 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: eleven three oh studios in New York. More to come. 234 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg David Gurreat and Francine Lappa Francine in London. 235 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: Tom Keane off this week. This is Bloombick Surveillance. Continuing 236 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 1: our conversation about Washington now with Brad Blakman. He was 237 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 1: member of President George W. Bush's senior staff. He joins 238 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: us now from our bureau Oor Bloomberg ninty nine one 239 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 1: Studios in Washington, d C. Great to have you with this, 240 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 1: Mr Blackman, and let me begin just by asking you 241 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: about the role of the chief of staff in the 242 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: White House. So much of of our attention has been 243 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: on John Kelly and the degree to which he's changed 244 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: the way things are run at the White House over 245 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: these last couple of weeks in a vacuum. What what's 246 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: the role of of a chief of staff? Well, the 247 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: chief of staff is the gatekeeper to the president. He 248 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: controls the president schedule and access and direction. Um. That 249 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 1: is really the coin of the realm of a president 250 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: is his time is a finite amount of time the 251 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: president has. It has to be spent well, and there 252 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: has to be a direction in in where the administration 253 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 1: is going in legislation and policy and regulation. So that 254 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: is the role of the of the manager, if you will, 255 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 1: is a chief of staff who's able to manage the 256 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: staff but also manage the care and feeding of the 257 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 1: president as well as his official duties as president. And 258 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 1: how much of his or her responsibilities include dealing with 259 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: with the Congress. I know a lot has been made here. 260 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: The fact that you look at John Kelly and and 261 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: in his tremendous amount of military service, I gotta some 262 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: of that we spent as a liaison tip to capital. 263 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:04,359 Speaker 1: How important is that relationship between the chief of staff 264 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: and the legislative branch. It's important, but it's it's not 265 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: a day to day UH concern. That's why an effective 266 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: team has to be built around an effective manager or 267 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: chief of staff. He needs now a good political person, 268 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 1: a good legislative person to work the day to day 269 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: UH issues of the hill, a communications person, and policy. 270 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: That team of management, policy, communications, legislation, and political is 271 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 1: really the benchmark of where this president is going to 272 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: go because he needs a good team to rely on 273 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: in order to carry out his instructions. Mr Blakeman, how 274 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: would you advise the president today after the week he's had. Well, 275 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: he has a great opportunity tomorrow in Phoenix, He's going 276 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 1: to be giving a rally, and I think he needs 277 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: to set the tone now as president to unite the country, um, 278 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: from every part of the country, every person in the country, 279 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 1: whether you're a publican Democrat, whoever you are, wherever you are, 280 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 1: we're all Americans, and the problems that face us are 281 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 1: not um are not just problems of one person or 282 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 1: one group. UH. Here. We have to get the economy moving. 283 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: We need trade, we need infrastructure, we need healthcare. The 284 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 1: big ticket items that the President promised must be kept now. 285 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:23,120 Speaker 1: And it wasn't only promises the President made. These were 286 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: promises the Republicans. Everyone who stood for office in two 287 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: thousands sixteen made the promises to make America great again. Well, 288 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,920 Speaker 1: that comes with policy, and right now, Uh, there's a 289 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 1: legislative agenda coming up in the fall that must be 290 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: dealt with. They must be dealt with affirmatively. And uh, 291 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 1: failure is not an option. Right, But how would you 292 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 1: advise Republicans that maybe took offense or absolutely did not 293 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,959 Speaker 1: agree on how the President handled Charlottesville. Well, you know, 294 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:55,160 Speaker 1: the president again has an opportunity in Phoenix to set 295 00:18:55,320 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 1: set a tone. The president's written statements on Charlottesville. We're line. 296 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: It's when he went off script and Tuesday and uh, 297 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:10,439 Speaker 1: and and damage those written statements that were that we're fine. Um. 298 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 1: And but Republicans have to understand we have global issues, 299 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:20,640 Speaker 1: we have national issues, heavy issues that need to be solved, 300 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,679 Speaker 1: and we only have one president. He's our president for 301 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: at least four eight years, and and we have to 302 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: make sure that he's successful. Brown, I'm looking at a 303 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 1: copy of The New York Times, a piece in thereby 304 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: Jeremy Peters and Maggie Haberman looking at the role of 305 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:37,399 Speaker 1: Steve Bannon in this administration before he left, and the 306 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 1: way things will change now, And a line sticks out 307 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: to me the right. Bannon's exit will clarify that only 308 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,199 Speaker 1: one person, Mr Trump, for better or worse, has always 309 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 1: been his own chief strategist. What's your sense of the 310 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:51,639 Speaker 1: intractability of this president? We were talking about John Kelly 311 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: at the degree which he's begun to change the way 312 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: the White House is running now that you've observed this 313 00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,640 Speaker 1: president in this role for more than than seven months, Now, 314 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 1: is he somebody who's who's a way of doing the 315 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 1: job can be changed? Do you think sure? Because I 316 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 1: think he's success driven. And uh, right now, if I 317 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: were the chief of staff, I'd laid before the president 318 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:15,880 Speaker 1: the promises that he made in the campaign and and 319 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:18,919 Speaker 1: and then set forth the legislative agenda to provide for 320 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:22,120 Speaker 1: deals to be closed. The president now has to work Congress. 321 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: And the success of this president will be his ability 322 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,399 Speaker 1: to keep his promises on the big ticket items like 323 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: infrastructure and taxes and and and budget and military. The 324 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 1: things that he promised the American people they're going to 325 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 1: remember when they go to the polls. And by the way, 326 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen, we have every member of the House 327 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: up for reelection as well as one third of the Senate, 328 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 1: and if Republicans want to hold that majority, then they 329 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: have to have a record to run on. You've you've 330 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,400 Speaker 1: done work as a communications consultant. I wonder what you 331 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: you make of what we've seen with your card to 332 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: the President tweeting the president not sticking to script. I 333 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 1: think a lot of his Republican supporters in particular, would 334 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: like nothing more, uh for him to be talking about 335 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 1: taxi for him now, if not exclusively than that, than 336 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: almost So how do you get somebody to to to 337 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: stay on topic? How do you get the president to 338 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: focus on on these issues that would make him you say, 339 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 1: he's success driven, maybe lead to some some legislative successes. Well, 340 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 1: I would tell the president, sir, you can be spontaneous, 341 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: and you can be reactionary to to news it as 342 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 1: it happens, but there's got to be a method to 343 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: the madness. And uh, there has to be a communications 344 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,879 Speaker 1: strategy that's honored by the staff but also honored by 345 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 1: the president and um and I think there's gotta be 346 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:37,919 Speaker 1: more deliberative tweeting. There's gotta be more targeted tweeting the 347 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 1: president certainly understands the targeting of messaging. He's done it 348 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 1: his entire life. Now it needs to be a little 349 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:47,159 Speaker 1: bit more honed and and uh and thought out. And 350 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: I think General Kelly needs to hire somebody sooner rather 351 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:54,440 Speaker 1: than later a good communications strong communications Personally. I think 352 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: the president respects and and willum and and we'll uh 353 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,199 Speaker 1: adhere to And you see a president that is willing 354 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: to listen. What we we've heard many times and over 355 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,160 Speaker 1: and over is that you have people that advise him, 356 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 1: but then he goes at it his own way. Well, 357 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: I think a lot of the problems this White House 358 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 1: has is simple to me, and that is the people 359 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: who get you to the White House and the campaign 360 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 1: are not necessarily the people you need when you get there. 361 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:24,879 Speaker 1: And I think once you peel away the campaign staff 362 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 1: and start hiring professional people who know Washington, know how 363 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 1: it works, insiders are not necessarily swamp creatures. Um. They 364 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,400 Speaker 1: can they can help you navigate this town and get 365 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,880 Speaker 1: you the success that you need in order to rack 366 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: up uh. The achievements at that are the basis of 367 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 1: the promises you made in the campaign. So I think 368 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:49,120 Speaker 1: discipline is key to an effective White House. But more 369 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 1: importantly than that is teamwork. Mr Blakeman, who will define 370 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 1: conservatism in the US. Is it bandoned or is it 371 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 1: the Murdock's No. I think conservatism is going to be 372 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: uh displayed by the parties and the leaders within the parties. 373 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 1: It's not the outside people who were the influencers who 374 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 1: determined conservatism. It's the people who are actually on the 375 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: front lines who are putting their votes down. It's the 376 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 1: president who's signing bills. Those are the things that directly 377 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:19,159 Speaker 1: affect the American people and that will determine the conservative 378 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 1: movement in America. Uh. Do you recognize that the Republican Party, 379 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,719 Speaker 1: the views the Republican Party espoused by this president. You're 380 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: somebody who has said worked for President George W. Bush. 381 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: How much has the party changed since then? Well, we're 382 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:36,439 Speaker 1: not keeping to the platform and uh every four years, 383 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:42,679 Speaker 1: parties Uh deliberate, they fight, they can jole, Uh, they trade, 384 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 1: they bargain, they compromise on the platform. My suggestion is 385 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 1: get back to basics, get back to the platform that 386 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: was hashed out at the convention. This is what we 387 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 1: stand for. Honor the promises that were made, and you'll 388 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:59,880 Speaker 1: be wildly successful. The American people expect healthcare, they expect 389 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: tax reform, they expect infrastructure, debt reduction, a strong military. 390 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 1: These are the These are the things that you should 391 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: be focused like a laser beam this fall on. UH. 392 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:14,879 Speaker 1: Tax reform must come. We have to have major accomplishments 393 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: so that we can run in two thousand eighteen and 394 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: retain our majorities in the House and the Senate. All right, 395 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:21,400 Speaker 1: Prab Blakeman, thank you very much for the time this morning. 396 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,400 Speaker 1: Brad Blakeman joining us for our ninty on one studios 397 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. He was an adviser to President 398 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 1: George W. Bush. Johnny is now on our phone lines days. 399 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: Grover Nork which the President Americans for tax from always 400 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: great to speak with him to hear his thoughts on 401 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: the debate over tax reform in Washington and DC. Grow 402 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:47,879 Speaker 1: were great to speak with you. Let me start by 403 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 1: asking you how much the the the agenda has changed 404 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,199 Speaker 1: from a policy perspective now that Steve Bannon is out 405 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: of the White House. I think last we spoke, I 406 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: asked you about a plan that Mr Bannon had floated 407 00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: here to apply a new tax on Americans making more 408 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: than five million dollars a year. So he was wrestling 409 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: his way into the conversation over a tax from what 410 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: changes for you now that he's out of the White House. Nothing. 411 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: He was not a participant in the debate on tax reform. 412 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 1: The one idea that it's reported that he put forward, 413 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 1: although it seemed to sort of be a dead cat 414 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,239 Speaker 1: bounce that he didn't even seem to repeat it. He 415 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 1: wanted to have a higher marginal tax rate on the 416 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,919 Speaker 1: highest income Americans and by the way, most small businesses, 417 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 1: because he thought that was populist. It was one of 418 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: the stupid or dumbest, most destructive ideas ever put forward. 419 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 1: And I'm pleased to see it got zero support. I 420 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 1: don't think that's why he got fired. UH. But his 421 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 1: stepping aside to do other things has may have an 422 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 1: effect on immigration policy, it has zero effect on tax policy. 423 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,680 Speaker 1: There is complete unanimity. This is this is what gets 424 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 1: lost in all the jangle. And because of the conflict 425 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:59,160 Speaker 1: on healthcare, the House, the Senate, and the White House, 426 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: the big sick the top two ties from each Minuchan 427 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 1: from Treasury, Cone from UH, the economic advisors, as well 428 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 1: as a speaker, and the majority leader and their tax guys. 429 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:15,159 Speaker 1: All six are meeting talking daily, Their staffs are talking 430 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: repeatedly every day. They've been doing so for more than 431 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 1: a month. But now CBO and Joint Tax are free 432 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: to score bills dealing with tax reform instead of being 433 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:31,880 Speaker 1: caught up with efforts to score what's going on on healthcare? 434 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: Chairman Brady telling me telling me as much about a 435 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:36,159 Speaker 1: week ago when I interviewed ahead of the speech that 436 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,680 Speaker 1: he gave it the Reagan Ranch, I believe last week 437 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,159 Speaker 1: give me a sense that grovery if you could have 438 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:42,639 Speaker 1: what you're going to be looking for when you're going 439 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 1: to be looking for a plan from the White House. Here, 440 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 1: we're waiting that we're waiting a comprehensive plan here from 441 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 1: the Big Six as you call them. Yeah, the White 442 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,360 Speaker 1: House will announce a plan that has House and Senate 443 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,440 Speaker 1: UH support. So that I was not gonna have a plan, 444 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,200 Speaker 1: or we're gonna have three plans or two plans or 445 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 1: one and a half plans. You have one plan by 446 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 1: September twenty eight that will go to the House Ways 447 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: and Means Committee, who will be thoroughly aware of it. 448 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,159 Speaker 1: They may have some ideas or amendments they want, but 449 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: they will be fully understanding exactly what it is and 450 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 1: largely in support. Look, everybody agrees the corporate rate is 451 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,679 Speaker 1: going towards fifteen, the small business rate, the sub Chapter 452 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: S rate is going towards fifteen. Everybody agrees. But actually, 453 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: don't we need someone to lay it out? Yeah? No, no, no, 454 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 1: that's what's gonna take till September twenty eight. And I 455 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,399 Speaker 1: under saying, if everyone agrees on where you're going, the 456 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 1: only question is how quickly you can get there. Whether 457 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,120 Speaker 1: some of these tax cuts are temporary and others are permanent. 458 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:50,439 Speaker 1: But the idea of the border justability of the corporate 459 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,680 Speaker 1: income tax was divisive. The senators from Walmart didn't like it, uh, 460 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 1: and so it probably wasn't going anywhere. They took that 461 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 1: off the table and Paul Ryan's World Agreement not eight. 462 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: Now answer me this, do you think last week was 463 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,439 Speaker 1: a setback for the president? And if it was in 464 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: the wake of Charlottesville, does it mean that he will 465 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: be in a hurry to push tax reform through? Um? 466 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 1: That's that hadn't thought of it that way. I thought 467 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 1: there were two big things this administration the House and 468 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:24,119 Speaker 1: said it one's due before election. One was healthcare. It 469 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,639 Speaker 1: was tax reform. Healthcare has been put off. Even if 470 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,399 Speaker 1: they come back and visit it, it will be a 471 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:33,199 Speaker 1: skinny bolle, not a uh significant reform. Uh So to 472 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,640 Speaker 1: get the economy strength, and you have two tools now. 473 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: One is all the de regulation that's happening, and that's big, 474 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: and the FCC changes in the TC changes and the 475 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: FDA changes and FIRK and all of a sudden, that's 476 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 1: all big, big, big, and fifty years from now we'll 477 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: go wow, that was that was a big part of this. 478 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 1: But none of those make headlines. The press and and 479 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: voters will focus on the tax reform and whether job 480 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: creation and of creation followed. We need strong economic growth 481 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 1: in the first two quarters of next year. This is 482 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 1: what the White House understands, the House and the Senate 483 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: leadership understands. And if you're running for reelection and all 484 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: the Congress and our heart of the Senators are, you 485 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: want robust growth starting in the third quarter of this 486 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 1: year if you can by making sure everyone understands that 487 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 1: the pro growth parts of tax reform will take effect 488 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 1: from September from the date that they dropped the bill, 489 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 1: not from the date that it passes. Nobody should hold 490 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 1: up an investment or to lay a decision based on 491 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 1: tax policy. They should know that the new rules would 492 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 1: be the old rules. Uh. But you need to have 493 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,480 Speaker 1: strong growth in the first two quarters of next year 494 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 1: so that everybody gets that the economy is stronger. Understand 495 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 1: it's because of tax reform and to a certain extent, 496 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 1: other challenges. The president has fade into the background if 497 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: he has delivered the growth that he said was his 498 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 1: top priority. So to that extent, it is increasingly important. 499 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 1: I would argue was made more important by delaying healthcare 500 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 1: reformas it strikes me that there is a fire underneath 501 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 1: a lot of Republican congressman to get something done, and 502 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: I want to using that, I ask you about the 503 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: state of the pledge something you're you're famous for getting 504 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,280 Speaker 1: congressman to sign a pledge to that they won't raise taxes. 505 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 1: Are you at all worried that the pressure to do something, 506 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 1: particularly after what happened with healthcare, might lead some of them, 507 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: might leave perhaps a majority of them to to opt 508 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 1: to raise taxes. Absolutely not. The tax reform that we're 509 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 1: talking about is a multi trillion dollar tax reduction. It 510 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 1: does that one by taking a dynamic view of the economy, 511 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,959 Speaker 1: joint taxes, dynamic scoring dynamically, So this would be a 512 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 1: net tax cut period that in no way comes close 513 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 1: to violating the pledge. The pledge would be if you 514 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 1: shot down with the Democrats and past the net tax increase. 515 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,800 Speaker 1: That isn't going to happen, largely because ninety plus percent 516 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: of Republicans have signed the pledge, kept it and are 517 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 1: never ever, ever, ever ever going to raise taxes. Carvin, 518 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: let me ask you lastly, hear what your group is 519 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 1: doing here to to push for tax reform. Are we 520 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 1: speaking with Tim Phillips about a week ago about the 521 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 1: work that Americans for Prosperities doing, The money that he's 522 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: invested in this cause, the events that he's holding around 523 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 1: the country give us a sense of of what you're doing. 524 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: Can you put a number to it and sort of 525 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 1: how is your your advocacy for this change to your 526 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 1: As we move ahead past this August recess, sure, the 527 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 1: focus has moved from healthcare to tax reform. Health Care 528 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: was supposed to be a joy and our tax cuts, 529 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 1: so it's very much a tax bill that got shun 530 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 1: to decide uh Americans for tax Form runs the Center 531 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 1: Right Coalition meeting of a hundred and fifty Center right 532 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 1: leaders in DC every week, but there are forty state 533 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: capitals where similar meetings are structured at the state level. 534 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 1: So we're working in each of those states, true, and 535 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 1: with everything from the state think tank, to state taxpayer groups, 536 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 1: to all the various state activist group, business groups, n 537 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 1: f I, B Chamber, and so on to make sure 538 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: that in every state we have voices that are focused 539 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 1: on what exactly is in tax care at tax reform 540 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,479 Speaker 1: and why we need it. We'll be doing ads too, 541 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 1: and we just try to figure out where we need 542 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: to do and raising resources to do that. But over 543 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: the last several months and now you'll see strong support 544 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 1: out in the grassroots, targeting individual congressman, senators and the 545 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 1: newspapers and radio talk shows that they listen to. Great 546 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: to speak with you. Let's talk again once we get 547 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 1: that White House plan grabbing Norquays. There joined us now 548 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 1: is Dan Akerson, former chairman and CEO of GM. He 549 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: joins us for our Bloomberg studios in Washington, d C. 550 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 1: It's great to have you with us here this morning, 551 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 1: and I wonder if we could use what I just 552 00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: mentioned as a peg to talk about what business is 553 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 1: interested in hearing from the the White House at this point, 554 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 1: how dialogical relationship it is between business and the White House. 555 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 1: What would you like to see happen with regard to 556 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 1: that relationship going forward. Well, I think there needs to 557 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: be UH an interactive discussion based on respect and UM. 558 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 1: And I think there's clearly that every CEO given the 559 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 1: opportunity to sit on a policy of formulating body than 560 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: the president chairs would welcome the opportunity because here she's 561 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 1: got to represent their shareholders. They want to make sure 562 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 1: their point of view is reflected in any UH developing 563 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: strategy or policy. And but then to the president has 564 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 1: a constituency that he or she must make sure that 565 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 1: they're talking to. And the CEO also has a constituency. 566 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 1: It's the customer base obviously, and also he has this 567 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: employees and his suppliers that are looking at him or 568 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:03,240 Speaker 1: her to make sure that UH their shared value, shared perspectives, 569 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 1: and to put it into cliche, everybody's on the same page. 570 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 1: And and I think there was a rift in that 571 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,480 Speaker 1: fabric of dialogue over the last week or so. So 572 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:14,200 Speaker 1: the actress and you have that that rift, as you 573 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 1: describe it. Early on in this administration, we saw a 574 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 1: lot of business leaders going to the White House meeting 575 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: with the president. He appeared to be listening to them. 576 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:23,440 Speaker 1: We had the video footage of the beginning of a 577 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:25,719 Speaker 1: lot of those meetings. You had Steve Schwartzman convening this 578 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:30,760 Speaker 1: group of experts that comprised the Strategic and Economic Policy Forum. 579 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 1: I wonder where we go from here? How do you 580 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 1: pick up the pieces from this? How do you how 581 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:38,840 Speaker 1: do you make that relationship a robust one again? Well, 582 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:43,800 Speaker 1: you know, I think leadership is always comprised of such topics. 583 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: Are elements as character, competency, integrity, empathy, temperament. And I think, 584 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,880 Speaker 1: although we have rarely seen this, I think the president 585 00:34:56,000 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 1: essentially has to, in some form or fashion, has to 586 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:04,400 Speaker 1: apologize for what happened. You know, I had my dad, 587 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 1: my father who was born in the early twenties and 588 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:13,920 Speaker 1: five uncles fought against a perspective that was really morally 589 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,360 Speaker 1: corrupt and it was represented by a swasticker. And so 590 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,360 Speaker 1: when the President of the United States, the leader of 591 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 1: the United States and the free world, says that there 592 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 1: were two sides, and there were good people on both sides. 593 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:28,160 Speaker 1: That's just a nethema to everything I've ever been exposed 594 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:32,120 Speaker 1: to and what my family and I served as well 595 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:36,040 Speaker 1: fought for. And you say that that is just so 596 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:40,080 Speaker 1: wrong that it has to be amended. And at the 597 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,720 Speaker 1: end of the day, you know, I don't know exactly 598 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: when it went on in Charlottesville, but there were nineteen 599 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:51,400 Speaker 1: people injured and one killed. None of them were carrying 600 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 1: tiki torches the night before, screaming Jews won't replace us 601 00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 1: and things of that nature. It was just wrong. And 602 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:06,440 Speaker 1: I think humility and and asking for forgiveness of a 603 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,319 Speaker 1: portion of our society would be in order. I don't 604 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:13,160 Speaker 1: think it's forthcoming, So it will be depending on the 605 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 1: company and the person. It'll be difficult to uh to 606 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 1: ascertain exactly how that relationship will evolve. If I were 607 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 1: still an active CEO, I would try to reach across 608 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:28,439 Speaker 1: and see if there couldn't be some uh explanation or accommodation. 609 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,800 Speaker 1: But I think it's going to be difficult for a while. 610 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 1: And I think certain industries consumer for example, it will 611 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:40,440 Speaker 1: be more difficult for a CEO to UH look or 612 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:45,040 Speaker 1: appear to be uh, you know, UH to have a 613 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: more constructive relationship with the president, which I think is 614 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,760 Speaker 1: a sad state of affairs. There should be a good 615 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:55,319 Speaker 1: working relationship between American business and the chief executive of 616 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,840 Speaker 1: our country. But Danna Kristen, do you believe that unless 617 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,840 Speaker 1: the president apologize? So, if he does not apologize, and 618 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:03,319 Speaker 1: I don't know if there's a time frame, if it 619 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 1: needs to be in the next two weeks, do you 620 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,400 Speaker 1: believe that he will actually lose the respect in the 621 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,440 Speaker 1: faith of C E O. S. And where does that 622 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:14,440 Speaker 1: put corporate America? Well, I can only speak for how 623 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,759 Speaker 1: I would see that we've all made mistakes in our 624 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 1: lives and an apology sincere apologies. As you know, I 625 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 1: just was out of line, and I want to take 626 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 1: this moment, this point in time, this opportunity to apologize. 627 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 1: There there is no excuse for the KKK. It's a 628 00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:35,160 Speaker 1: domestic terrorism group. They've done terrible things in the history 629 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,239 Speaker 1: of this country. And there's no excuse for supporting any 630 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,880 Speaker 1: organization that wants to fly a swasticker in our in 631 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:45,399 Speaker 1: our population. I just, uh, this is not a there's 632 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:47,840 Speaker 1: no gray area around those. In my mind, it's a 633 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,480 Speaker 1: black and white issue, and I think fundamentally, I hope 634 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 1: and believe that the president feels that and he just 635 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:56,880 Speaker 1: And it goes to one of the elements of what 636 00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,000 Speaker 1: I described as leadership. It's temperament. Yeah, you can't allow 637 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,840 Speaker 1: yourself to become so emotional and say things that you 638 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 1: will regret later. It's it's like a marriage. It's based 639 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 1: on trust. You have to believe that the guy in 640 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,480 Speaker 1: the corner office or in the oval office is UH 641 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:19,239 Speaker 1: that shares values that I think are basic to the 642 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:23,400 Speaker 1: American experience. Do you believe that the White House will recover, 643 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,960 Speaker 1: that this Trump administration will recover from it if the 644 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 1: President doesn't apologize. Hard to say. I think as time 645 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 1: goes on, this whole fade a bit, but there have 646 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,239 Speaker 1: been There's a segment or population that I think are 647 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:44,239 Speaker 1: really I've been damaged, hurt uh And it will be 648 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,359 Speaker 1: suspicious for a while. But it's not impossible to win 649 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:52,160 Speaker 1: back the goodwill of the people with good deeds. But 650 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 1: I mean things for example, I also mentioned empathy. It's 651 00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,560 Speaker 1: just you have to be steady, you have to be predictable. 652 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:04,759 Speaker 1: You can't. I remember the Rose Garden celebration when the 653 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:08,920 Speaker 1: House passed their version of repeal and repace of Obamacare, 654 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,239 Speaker 1: and Obamacare is flawed, and I don't think anybody in 655 00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:14,200 Speaker 1: the right mind would say it's it's a perfect piece 656 00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:18,160 Speaker 1: of legislation. Uh, it needs to be fixed. But then 657 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,799 Speaker 1: several weeks later he calls it mean. Well, he had 658 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,479 Speaker 1: a celebration of it, and then he couldn't get the 659 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:28,360 Speaker 1: Senate to pass it. And then you can see in 660 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:32,239 Speaker 1: our legislators, our senators and our congressmen, they kind of go, 661 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,440 Speaker 1: what what's this all about? One hand, it's a rose 662 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:39,719 Speaker 1: garden celebration, subsequently called mean and then he's angry and 663 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 1: calls out senators that have constituencies that they represent. And 664 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:47,560 Speaker 1: I can tell you as an American and God, I've 665 00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:52,480 Speaker 1: been blessed in so many ways, but you see to yourself, uh, empathy. 666 00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,560 Speaker 1: I don't want to live in a country that doesn't 667 00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:00,759 Speaker 1: take care of the most vulnerable among us. And Uh, 668 00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:04,200 Speaker 1: in our family, we've had some medical problems the last 669 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 1: couple of years, and we were blessed to have insurance. 670 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:12,080 Speaker 1: What if I weren't. What happens to people on the 671 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:16,560 Speaker 1: margin unemployed, Uh, where they have a major medical problem, 672 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:18,920 Speaker 1: do we just say, well, too bad for you? And 673 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:22,359 Speaker 1: best of luck. And you can't say that twenty five 674 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:24,880 Speaker 1: or whatever the number is. But I heard five million 675 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:28,000 Speaker 1: Americans in the next five or six years would be 676 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:32,360 Speaker 1: without insurance. And and somehow there's got to be a compromise. 677 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,359 Speaker 1: And I think a good leader that would gain the good, 678 00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:38,080 Speaker 1: the trust and respect to the American public, regardless of 679 00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,799 Speaker 1: political affiliation. And just said, look, we all know the 680 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,640 Speaker 1: Obamacare is flawed. I need six people on either side 681 00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 1: of the aisle. I don't need to pick the right 682 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,400 Speaker 1: wing or the left wing too, two groups of six 683 00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:52,919 Speaker 1: a dozen people, uh, and come back to me with 684 00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,080 Speaker 1: the five or six things that we need to replace 685 00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,600 Speaker 1: to make it better. I mean at the time they 686 00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,279 Speaker 1: passed Obamacare, I remember and they said they can't pete 687 00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:05,239 Speaker 1: across state lines. Crazy competition is good, and you can 688 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,560 Speaker 1: uh expand the pool, the ricks pool at the insurance 689 00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:11,959 Speaker 1: companies taken on, and you can you can essentially cross 690 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,520 Speaker 1: subsidize from high risk areas to the lower risk areas. 691 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:19,120 Speaker 1: They're they're just basic fundamental business decisions that were overlooked 692 00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:24,439 Speaker 1: because Obamacare was not passed with one Republican vote, and 693 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:28,920 Speaker 1: I guess repeal and replacement vote with not one Democratic vote. 694 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:32,480 Speaker 1: You can't reform one sixth of the U. S economy 695 00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:37,480 Speaker 1: UH without having a bipartisan bill that both parties can 696 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:41,200 Speaker 1: live with. And so there's work to be done. And 697 00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,080 Speaker 1: I think that'd be a good place to start, UH, 698 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:47,480 Speaker 1: to go back and make a valiant effort and and 699 00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:49,520 Speaker 1: get a select number to come back with us with 700 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,160 Speaker 1: a bipart come back to the entire Congress with a 701 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:54,560 Speaker 1: bipartisan view, and you'd have the right wing on one 702 00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:56,120 Speaker 1: side and the left wing on the other side saying 703 00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,880 Speaker 1: that's not good enough. Well, Medicare, believe it or not, 704 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:02,280 Speaker 1: you probably too young to rem Medicare was very controversial 705 00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:05,560 Speaker 1: at the time. Yeah, very controversial, but look at them 706 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:09,000 Speaker 1: on Alzheimer's patients there. What if we didn't have Medicaid, 707 00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:12,200 Speaker 1: how would families take care of their loved ones as 708 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:15,120 Speaker 1: they got older? And it's a very popular program today. 709 00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:16,680 Speaker 1: Damn we gotta leave it there. Thank you very much 710 00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:19,240 Speaker 1: for those valuable comment. Stan Atkinson, former chairman and CEO 711 00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:21,920 Speaker 1: of General Motors, joining us. We're not Animal Studios in Washington, 712 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,439 Speaker 1: d C. Here on Bloomberg Surveillance David Gura with Francine Laco, 713 00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:35,840 Speaker 1: who is in for Tom Keene. Thanks for listening to 714 00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:40,640 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Surveillance podcast. Subscribe and listen to interviews on 715 00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:46,319 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or whichever podcast platform you prefer. I'm 716 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:50,160 Speaker 1: on Twitter at Tom Keene David Gura. Is that David Gura? 717 00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:54,520 Speaker 1: Before the podcast? You can always catch us worldwide. I'm 718 00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:55,399 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio