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Speaker 1: Emily, the Sun is really big. Did you know that

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Speaker 1: the Sun is bigger than all the planets in the

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Speaker 1: Solar System?

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Speaker 2: I did know that, very yes, But say more about

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Speaker 2: how big the Sun.

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Speaker 1: Nine percent of the mass in the Solar System is

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Speaker 1: in the Sun. It's that big. It's almost everything. Everything

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Speaker 1: else is a rounding error. And Okay, this doesn't have

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Speaker 1: to do with wellness, but I wanted to give some

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Speaker 1: fun sun facts before we got into our episode about

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Speaker 1: the Sun. And one thing that kept coming across was that,

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Speaker 1: you know, you could fit one point three million earths

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Speaker 1: inside the Sun. That's how big it is. That's a

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Speaker 1: lot of earths, and that's all over the place. But

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Speaker 1: I was like, wait, is that really true? Because it's

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Speaker 1: not like the earths would just sit there, do you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: I always sort of imagine it was like if the

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Speaker 2: Sun were like a jar and you put and the

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Speaker 2: Earth was a gumball. That means it's like a point

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Speaker 2: three million gumballs? Is that right?

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Speaker 1: But do you know what happens if you put a

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Speaker 1: million earths together? Is like they all have gravity and

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Speaker 1: they start crushing in on each other and and it

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Speaker 1: turns out again, Okay, right now where physics actually it

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Speaker 1: turns out that as you add earths into a big ball,

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Speaker 1: these really interesting things happen. So after three hundred and

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Speaker 1: thirty three earths, adding additional earths actually makes the volume

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Speaker 1: of the Earth's smaller. Three hundred and thirty three earths,

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Speaker 1: because the Earth is made primarily of iron. Is when

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Speaker 1: gravity can pull the atoms together, or the nuclei of

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Speaker 1: the atoms together, even though the electrons are trying to

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Speaker 1: fight against it, right, so they like is actually getting

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Speaker 1: denser and denser and.

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Speaker 2: Sucking it in.

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Speaker 1: Okay, by the time you're three hundred and thirty four earths,

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Speaker 1: the thing is just getting smaller. When you get to

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Speaker 1: three hundred and thirty three thousand earths, that exceed gravity,

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Speaker 1: exceeds the electron degeneracy pressure, and all those earths form

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Speaker 1: a white dwarf star. So it just sits there being

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Speaker 1: a white dwarf star about the size of the Earth.

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Speaker 1: So three hundred and thirty three thousand earths and one

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Speaker 1: earth about.

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Speaker 2: The size of one Earth, but very hot.

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Speaker 1: If you took the one point three million earths that

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Speaker 1: the Internet says you can stick inside the sun and

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Speaker 1: actually put them in the sun, you would get a

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Speaker 1: black hole, and the size of that black hole would

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Speaker 1: be eleven five hundred meters across, about the size of

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Speaker 1: New Haven, Connecticut city limits.

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Speaker 2: That is totally fascinating, and I think it's a good

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Speaker 2: open because a lot of people might be wondering, like, hey,

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Speaker 2: use episodes about the sun? What is the sun? You know?

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Speaker 2: And we'd like to abide some information at the top.

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Speaker 2: And I also thought about a way to provide people information.

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Speaker 2: And you went with science and I went with they

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Speaker 2: might be giants. And so let me just give you

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Speaker 2: a little clip in song from the best song ever

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Speaker 2: written about the Sun by Day Maybe Giants. Sun is

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Speaker 2: a massive incandescent GASA gigantic nuclear furnace where hydrogen is

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Speaker 2: fused into heale at temperatures of millions of degrees. It

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Speaker 2: goes on from there. And if you have any children

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Speaker 2: who are interested in the sun, I highly recommend that

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Speaker 2: you have that them listen to that song instead of

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Speaker 2: listening to Perry's description, even though I did think it

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Speaker 2: was very interesting. I'm Emily Aster, I'm an economist and

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Speaker 2: a data expert, and.

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Speaker 1: I'm Perry Wilson, I'm a medical doctor.

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Speaker 2: It's Thursday, July thirtieth, twenty twenty six. And this is wellness.

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Speaker 1: Actually, because you're getting a staggering amount of health and

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Speaker 1: wellness information nowadays from every source imaginable, and some of

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Speaker 1: it is awesome and some.

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Speaker 2: Of it is well actually both Fortunately we are both

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Speaker 2: people who know how to read studies, how to parse

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Speaker 2: the data, and can tell you what's worth thinking about

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Speaker 2: and what you can safely ignore.

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Speaker 1: But before we dig in, a note that this podcast

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Speaker 1: is for educational purposes and should not be construed as

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Speaker 1: medical advice. We don't know your unique situation, so talk

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Speaker 1: to your doctor for personal health decisions.

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Speaker 2: Here comes the sun this week we're asking what's the

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Speaker 2: deal with the sun? Perry, and I will give the

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Speaker 2: official smash or pass? Do we even need the sun anyway?

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Speaker 2: And then we'll get to your questions of the wo

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Speaker 2: hot But first let's do the health news round up

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Speaker 2: after the break. And now let's do the health news

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Speaker 2: of the week. My first question for you, Perry, I

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Speaker 2: noticed that the cardiologists have finally come out in support

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Speaker 2: of one of my more central personal habits, which is

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Speaker 2: consumption of coffee. And the cardio biologists of America have

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Speaker 2: said coffee's great. Why did they say that? Now?

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Speaker 1: I guess people were kind of down on cardiology and

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Speaker 1: they were like, you guys are such wet blankets, always

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Speaker 1: telling us not to drink alcohol or like eat fatty

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Speaker 1: foods or whatever, and they needed to get some street creds.

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Speaker 1: So the American Heart Association has released a formal document

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Speaker 1: on caffeine and the cardiovascular risks and benefits, and it

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Speaker 1: goes through decades of research into the substance, but I'll

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Speaker 1: summarize in saying they basically gave a thumbs up to coffee,

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Speaker 1: to ingesting caffeine in the form of coffee, noting across

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Speaker 1: several studies that there's stuff in coffee that might be

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Speaker 1: healthy even beyond caffeine, and sort of are equivocal on

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Speaker 1: caffeine supplemented beverages and gels and energy drinks and things

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Speaker 1: like that. But overall, some of the sort of myths

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Speaker 1: that got dispelled in this document. Number one that was

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Speaker 1: surprising to me even was they talk about generally coffee

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Speaker 1: being less likely to promote atrial fibrillation, the most common

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Speaker 1: cardiac arrhythmia. We always sort of counsel people with a

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Speaker 1: fib or we used to counsel people with aphib like, oh,

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Speaker 1: don't avoid coffee if you're trying to stay out of

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Speaker 1: aphib AJ says not true. In fact, the current guidelines

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Speaker 1: advise specifically against telling people not to drink coffee if

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Speaker 1: they have atrial fibrillation. Some other interesting stuff. They note

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Speaker 1: a randomized controlled trial which showed that coffee increases LDL

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Speaker 1: cholesterol that's the bad cholesterol, but not if you pass

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Speaker 1: it through a paper filter. There's a substance in coffee

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Speaker 1: that raises cholesterol but gets absorbed into paper filters. So

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Speaker 1: maybe that's an argument against French presses, although that is

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Speaker 1: a nice form of coffee that I like. I love

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Speaker 1: finding things, though Emily like I have a list of

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Speaker 1: three things. I wonder if you can guess these. There

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Speaker 1: are three things in life where that are pleasurable, and

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Speaker 1: science also tells you that they're good for you. Like

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Speaker 1: most things, it's like, ah, you know, it's not that pleasurable,

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Speaker 1: but you got to do it. Eat your broccoli, right,

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Speaker 1: So coffee is one of them. I have two more.

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Speaker 2: What are your other two?

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Speaker 1: I'm curious what you're two? So so the only the

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Speaker 1: only other two I've been able to think of our

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Speaker 1: sleep and sex. Coffee, sleep and sex. That's it. Everything else.

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Speaker 1: If it feels good, it's bad for you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah that sounds that sounds right.

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Speaker 1: I mean people be like, oh, exercise, Like I love exercise. No,

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Speaker 1: you don't, come on, I do know.

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Speaker 2: I will tell you I do actually love exercise.

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Speaker 1: It's the endorphins. Let's say, but if you could just

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Speaker 1: lie around eating doritos, no I would.

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Speaker 2: I totally would not do that. But I will go

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Speaker 2: with yeah, yeah, coffee, sleep, sex, and exercise on my head.

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Speaker 2: Here was what I will say about this coffee thing.

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Speaker 2: Very nice. I broadly think that there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: good stuff in this report. I will say I am

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Speaker 2: always very frustrated that these reports seem to rely on

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Speaker 2: both observational and randomized data and not like this distinguish them.

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Speaker 2: I mean, coffee makes you Live Forever is like a

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Speaker 2: standard headline that shows up in a lot of coverage

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Speaker 2: of garbage observational studies. These guys like, some of what

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Speaker 2: they're saying is based on randomized trials, some is based

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Speaker 2: on observational data. I just wish they would talk about

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Speaker 2: the randomized trials, like, here are the things we actually

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Speaker 2: know and here are some you know, associations which you

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Speaker 2: should take with a grain of salt. And I think

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Speaker 2: they don't do that because they don't have the same

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Speaker 2: skepticism that I do for observational data. But anyway, that's

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Speaker 2: my problem.

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Speaker 1: I hear you, and that skepticism comes through loud and clear.

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Speaker 1: Let's move on to a rather bleak record that we have.

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Speaker 1: There have been more measles cases reported in the United

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Speaker 1: States in the last two years than in all the

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Speaker 1: years from two thousand through twenty twenty four combined. Emily,

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Speaker 1: what's going on with measles?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's some actually other ways to look at that data,

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Speaker 2: which I think are even more disturbing. Like there was

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Speaker 2: a single week in January when there were more measles

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Speaker 2: cases than all, like than the yearly count for all

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Speaker 2: but a few years in the past twenty years. So

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Speaker 2: we're having a very unusual outbreak set of measles. What

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Speaker 2: is happening is pretty clear. We are in a period

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Speaker 2: of increased vaccine hesitancy. Vaccine rates have been going down

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Speaker 2: for a long period of time, and that means we

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Speaker 2: have a lot of kids who are unvaccinated. Measles is

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Speaker 2: super super super contagious. They are not. Is something like

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Speaker 2: twelve to fifteen, which means any individual person with measles

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Speaker 2: can spread it to is expected to spread it to

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Speaker 2: twelve to fifteen other people if everyone was unvaccinated. That's way, way,

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Speaker 2: way higher than almost any other viral illness that we

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Speaker 2: talk about. And so it's just.

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Speaker 1: Yea, it is like one point five.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was just super super contagious. And if you

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Speaker 2: have a school where fifty percent of the kids are vaccinated,

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Speaker 2: which we do have some of, then one kids get meels,

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Speaker 2: A lot of people get measles, and so you know, look,

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Speaker 2: I mean there is an obvious solution for this. It

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Speaker 2: is for more people to get vaccinated. It's not rocket science.

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Speaker 2: We have a great, great way to fix this problem.

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Speaker 2: Vaccine hesitancy continues to rise. The CDC currently features a

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Speaker 2: website that says that autism has something like vaccines have

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Speaker 2: not been shown not to cause autism or something incredibly misleading.

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Speaker 2: That is totally wrong and the whole thing is very frustrating.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. If you look at vaccination rates nationwide

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Speaker 1: for measles, they look okay, you know, ninety three percent

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Speaker 1: of kindergarteners or something like that. But one of the

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Speaker 1: problems in infectious disease epidemiology is that infectious disease has

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Speaker 1: spread locally. And so the problem is it's not ninety

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Speaker 1: three percent everywhere. It's one hundred percent in some places,

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Speaker 1: and it's eighty percent, seventy five percent even lower in

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Speaker 1: other places, and and those tend to cluster together, which

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Speaker 1: is why you see all these outbreaks. And yes, the

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Speaker 1: CD despite, I will say officially, the HHS says, the

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Speaker 1: Health and Human Services Department says, quote vaccination is the

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Speaker 1: best defense against measles. Okay, folks, So there you go.

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Speaker 1: That's their official word. But of course they also put

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Speaker 1: up this website and yeah, Emily, it says basically, it's like,

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Speaker 1: while there's no evidence that vaccines cause autism, there's no

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Speaker 1: good evidence that they don't cause autism. Which, hey, even

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Speaker 1: that's not true, like we have plenty of studies showing

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Speaker 1: no link so much and a much proving a negative.

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Speaker 1: Like you can always kind of say that. It's like

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Speaker 1: it's like, you know, I can't prove to you that

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Speaker 1: there's not a whale orbiting the earth right now, like

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Speaker 1: there could be like it's possible we just didn't detect

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Speaker 1: it yet, right like, which is just such wishy washy stuff.

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Speaker 1: No medical science is ever going to be one hundred

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Speaker 1: percent on anything, but we're actually pretty darn close when

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Speaker 1: it comes to vaccination totally.

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Speaker 2: All right. Well, you know, perhaps people will respond to

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Speaker 2: the existence of measles by vaccinating a higher rates, which

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Speaker 2: we do see happen. So I guess that's chose a

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Speaker 2: self limiting aspect. Your potentially last thing we wanted to

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Speaker 2: talk about was peptides. The FDA is back for your peptides.

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Speaker 2: If you are a listener after this show, please go

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Speaker 2: back and listen to our episode on pep pides. And

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Speaker 2: one of the things we said there was you can't

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Speaker 2: get peptides in America. You have to get them from

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Speaker 2: overseas manufacturers. The FDA heard us and they were like, oh,

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Speaker 2: we should make those.

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Speaker 1: Why are we outsourcing all? Are we outsourcing improvens to China?

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Speaker 1: As an FDA panel has voted to authorize several peptides

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Speaker 1: which people may have heard of, including on our prior episode,

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Speaker 1: such as BPC one fifty seven that's part of the

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Speaker 1: Wolverine Stack fabled wolverine stack KPV and TP five hundred

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Speaker 1: for bulk compounding. That gives compounding pharmacies here in the

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Speaker 1: US the ability to mix that into stuff that you

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Speaker 1: can then inject into yourself. A bit of controversy here

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Speaker 1: because the staff at the FDA recommended against this. They

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Speaker 1: cited lack of safety and efficacy data, which which we

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Speaker 1: of course highlighted in our prior episode. There's some interesting

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Speaker 1: rat data on some of these things, but in general,

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Speaker 1: we expect there to be human safety and efficacy data

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Speaker 1: before the FDA approves something. The panel that voted to

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Speaker 1: approve it had. It won't surprise you to hear been

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Speaker 1: recently reconstituted by RFK Junior. The new members include six

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Speaker 1: people who run businesses selling peptides, okay, which is like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, it's okay. I understand that you want expertise,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of times experts do have relationships with industry,

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Speaker 1: and that's true, but you know, the people that run hhs,

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Speaker 1: including RFK, really criticize the FDA for having people with

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Speaker 1: industry ties on these panels. And now they have people

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Speaker 1: who run clinics in Florida that make money injecting overseas

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Speaker 1: peptides on these panels.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so to play to play Devil's advocate on this

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Speaker 2: question of like whether we should have proved these I

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Speaker 2: think they do. There is an argument which the panel made,

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Speaker 2: which is that people are already using these and they're

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Speaker 2: getting them from these unsafe overseas sources, and if we

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Speaker 2: provide them in the US, they will get them here

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Speaker 2: and that will be safer for me. That trades off

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Speaker 2: against the fact that if you provide them here in

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Speaker 2: the US, many more people will use them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And it's also it's like, that's like cool mom energy, right,

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Speaker 1: It's like, I know you guys are going to be drinking.

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Speaker 1: I'd rather you drank here, like and I got you

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Speaker 1: a bunch of vodka, Like I.

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Speaker 2: Just that's the at some White Claw and some Social

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Speaker 2: Tonics so you can try things out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the FDA is supposed to do.

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Speaker 2: It's not a regular mom, the FDA. It's cool, mom,

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Speaker 2: it's cool.

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Speaker 1: It's cool. FDA. Just like do safety and efficacy. That's

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Speaker 1: like your whole thing, Like prove that a drug works,

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Speaker 1: prove that it's safe. That's what we have to do.

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Speaker 1: And maybe these things do work, but you got to

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Speaker 1: run the trials. It feels like the bare minimum, and

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Speaker 1: like this is what they complain about with vaccines. They're like, ah,

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Speaker 1: they haven't gone through adequate trials, which again is untrue,

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Speaker 1: but in this case it is true. But all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, it doesn't matter because we can make a

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Speaker 1: lot of money, like with these things that aren't going

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Speaker 1: to be covered by insurance being sold in wellness clinics

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Speaker 1: without any evidence except for social media clout.

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Speaker 2: All right, well, so before you buy a wolverine stack,

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Speaker 2: please listen to our last episode about the data. Thank you.

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Speaker 2: All right, that's it for the health news of the week,

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Speaker 2: and now let's dive into the sun, not literally, let's

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Speaker 2: dive into information about the sun.

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Speaker 1: Do you know what happened to the sun if you

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Speaker 1: were to put a human body into it?

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Speaker 2: I don't think you could get that close to the

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Speaker 2: sun with that magically, Like.

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Speaker 1: If you magically transported a human body into the sun,

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Speaker 1: you know what happened to the sun?

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Speaker 2: Nothing?

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Speaker 1: Nothing, nothing, nothing at all.

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Speaker 2: I think what happened you know what happened to the human?

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Speaker 2: Not anything good? Nothing good.

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Speaker 1: It's not good for the human, not.

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Speaker 2: Good for you. All right, So I think it's worth

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Speaker 2: asking the question, why are we talking about the sun?

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Speaker 2: What does it mean to ask what's the deal with

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Speaker 2: the sun? And obviously we should say the sun is

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Speaker 2: crucial for life on Earth, not controversial, that's not controversial.

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Speaker 2: But on Instagram there are some more controversy about the sun,

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Speaker 2: not about whether we should have it, but about your

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Speaker 2: relationship to exposure to it. And so in particular, I

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Speaker 2: read an increasing sense that maybe we should be more

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Speaker 2: exposed to the sun, right like we just like to

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Speaker 2: back up, I was born in the nineteen eighties, and

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Speaker 2: in the nineteen eighties we had a lot of sun exposure.

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Speaker 2: You know. One time I got a sunburned so bad

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Speaker 2: that my face blistered because we weren't just like wearing

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Speaker 2: that much sunscreen. And now it's like my kids are

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Speaker 2: in like a hat and full on sunscreen and like

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Speaker 2: a long sleeve bathing suit. There were no long sleeve

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Speaker 2: bathing suits when we were children. Now everyone's in like

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Speaker 2: a parka, like a beach parka. And so then the

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Speaker 2: Instagram has pushed back a little and be like, hey,

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Speaker 2: we're not you know, you're wearing too much sunscreen. Instead,

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Speaker 2: you should need a lot of watermelon, because that's just

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Speaker 2: as good as sunscreen.

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Speaker 3: Okay, here's an idea for you. Instead of lathering on

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Speaker 3: chemically filled, unnatural sunscreens, what if instead you drank some

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Speaker 3: watermelon juice. It's true, watermelon juice acts as a natural sunscreen.

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Speaker 3: Watermelon has something known as lycopine in it, which contains

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Speaker 3: antioxidant and anti inflammatory properties that help hydrate and nourish

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Speaker 3: the skin to protect it from the sun. It's well

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Speaker 3: known that hydrated and nourished skin is far less likely

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Speaker 3: to be damaged from the sun.

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Speaker 2: So I think that's what we're going to kind of

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Speaker 2: talk about here, like exposure to the sun, health, vitamin D, sunscreen,

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Speaker 2: mood disorders.

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Speaker 1: I love it.

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Speaker 2: What questions do you have about the sun?

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Speaker 1: It's the summer, so the sun is on my mind

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Speaker 1: and it's very hot. No, I think there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of good stuff to talk about here when you mentioned

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Speaker 1: sun when we were kids, totally, I once got a

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Speaker 1: sunburn on my forehead and like my skin was gonna

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Speaker 1: peel off but hadn't yet, so like there was a

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Speaker 1: layer of skin that was kind of loose, and I

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Speaker 1: was like eleven, and I remember looking in the mirror

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Speaker 1: and raising my eyebrows, and like all these wrinkles appeared

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Speaker 1: on my forehead and I thought, oh my gosh, I

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Speaker 1: have become old, Like the sun has given me wrinkles.

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Speaker 1: That's what everyone says the sun does. And then three

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Speaker 1: days are so passed, and that dead skin all kind

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Speaker 1: of fell off and I had a nice smooth forehead again.

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Speaker 1: But that image burned into my memory. And then about

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Speaker 1: ten years ago, I was looking in the mirror and

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Speaker 1: I raised my eyebrows and there they were again for

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Speaker 1: real time. And the prophecy has been fulfilled.

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Speaker 2: All right, So let's start, I think talking about sunscreen,

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Speaker 2: because sunscreen is weirdly controversial. Actually, yeah, I don't know

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Speaker 2: what happened there.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think we can unpack why it's controversial. Well, okay, overall,

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Speaker 1: there's money to be made in controversy, right if you're

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Speaker 1: an influencer and you kind of are going to be

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Speaker 1: a contrarian and say, like, well, all the nerds the

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Speaker 1: Ivory Tower telling you to wear sunscreen, now I'm going

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Speaker 1: to tell you not to. And by the way, you know,

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Speaker 1: buy my product or whatever. Like there's there's always the grift,

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Speaker 1: and we should just say that but I think we

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Speaker 1: can find some other reasons that people are skeptical of sunscreen.

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Speaker 1: The reason we wear well, there's two reasons we wear

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Speaker 1: sunscreen really. One is to prevent skin cancer, and one

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Speaker 1: is to prevent the solar aging. The fact that it's true,

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Speaker 1: although it didn't happen to be when I was ten,

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Speaker 1: the sun does age your skin. And you know, I

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Speaker 1: think just i'll briefly touch on mechanism here. I think

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Speaker 1: the only thing that we need to take home is

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Speaker 1: that the sun. The bad stuff that comes from sunlight

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Speaker 1: not bad. The potentially damaging stuff are uv A and

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Speaker 1: uv B wavelengths of light. If you go all the

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Speaker 1: way back to our red light therapy episode, you'll remember

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Speaker 1: that the shorter wavelengths have more energy, they can kind

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Speaker 1: of do more damage, but they don't penetrate as deeply.

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Speaker 1: UVB has that shorter, high energy stuff that can damage DNA,

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Speaker 1: and that's one of the mechanisms by which this causes cancer,

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Speaker 1: whereas the UVA, which can get a little deeper, actually

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Speaker 1: might be more responsible for aging. You know, sunspots, wrinkling

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Speaker 1: and stuff like that, And of course sunscreen. We'll dig

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Speaker 1: into a little bit of how sunscreen works, but sunscreen,

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Speaker 1: if you're wearing a good one, will block both of

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Speaker 1: these things.

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Speaker 2: Both the sun and tanning beds provide the same thing.

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Speaker 2: So some nice people will talk about tanning beds being.

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Speaker 1: Worse or better.

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Speaker 2: I think that for the most part, what we are

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Speaker 2: going to say here applies to using a tanning bed

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Speaker 2: or being outside. Maybe there's some small differences here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I would just think of tanning beds as the

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Speaker 1: same as sun. There's a little weird stuff. There's an

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Speaker 1: interesting article in Science Advances in twenty twenty five about

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Speaker 1: this that showed that the melanocite mutation burden was high

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Speaker 1: and distributed more broadly, and people use tanning beds. People

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Speaker 1: use tanning beds are also more likely to get multiple

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Speaker 1: primary melanomas. So a primary cancer is like a cancer

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Speaker 1: in a spot, as opposed to metastatic, which has spread

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Speaker 1: from somewhere else, And so multiple primaries is like getting

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Speaker 1: cancer twice. But these are all really kind of marginal

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Speaker 1: on the edge stuff. I wouldn't like consider one being

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Speaker 1: safer than the other.

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Speaker 2: I will say I don't think people should use tanning. Like,

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Speaker 2: if you are looking to be tan there's a spray

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Speaker 2: for that. You know, like if your goal physical tanning experience,

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Speaker 2: like to look tan, you should just go spray tan yourself.

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Speaker 1: Hey, there's also a peptide for that.

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Speaker 2: There's also a peptide for that. Now you could probably

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Speaker 2: get it. And so I would like sort of put

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Speaker 2: that aside, because for many people the question is more,

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Speaker 2: you know, I'm going to be outside, and then therefore

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Speaker 2: you know should or should not? Should I not protect myself?

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Speaker 2: And I will say the debate on both sides is

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Speaker 2: basically about cancer. So the reason that people that we

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Speaker 2: think you should wear sunscreen is because of cancer, And

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Speaker 2: a lot of the reason people think you shouldn't wear

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Speaker 2: sunscreen is also about cancer. Maybe some about endocrine disruption,

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Speaker 2: but like, cancer comes up on both sides of this,

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Speaker 2: and sometimes the same kinds of cancers, and the conversation

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Speaker 2: is confused.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let me play you a clip from a typical

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Speaker 1: influencer that people see online talking about the dangers of sunscreen.

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Speaker 4: I am the single biggest hater of sunscreen on the planet.

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Speaker 4: I stopped using sunscreen two years ago when I found

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Speaker 4: out all the problems with it, and I'm never going back.

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Speaker 4: For starters, the lie that we've heard is that sunscreen

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Speaker 4: helps protect you from melanova and skin cancer. Sunscreen wasn't

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Speaker 4: invented until the nineteen thirties, and I believe it wasn't

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Speaker 4: brought to the United States until the mid nineteen forties,

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Speaker 4: but it didn't get FDA approved until about nineteen eighty.

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Speaker 4: Since nineteen eighty, we've seen an increase of over seven

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Speaker 4: hundred percent of Melanova cases. Hmmm, but I thought it

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Speaker 4: was supposed to protect us from the sun. That's what

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Speaker 4: all the dermatologists say.

434
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 2: Who cares rated their education, right, This guy's confused.

435
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 1: This guy is shirtless too, Emily, is this do we

436
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:09,920
Speaker 1: need to do this? Do we need to be recording

437
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 1: our podcast without our shirts on? Because apparently this is

438
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 1: how you get engagement nowadays.

439
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, are you gonna? I think you should. We we'll

440
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 2: see how it goes, and then if we have to

441
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,920
Speaker 2: ramp up to me, we'll try that anyway. Okay. So

442
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:28,920
Speaker 2: the claim here is that sunscreen somehow causes skin cancer.

443
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 2: That's confused.

444
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's so this influencer is like, oh,

445
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 1: we started using sunscreen, you know, in the sixties, and

446
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 1: skin cancer rates have also gone up. A classic ecological

447
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 1: fallacy for the epidemiologists out there, but also a lot

448
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:52,680
Speaker 1: of reverse causality, like sunning and getting tan was not

449
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,159
Speaker 1: as much of a thing in the nineteen thirties and

450
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 1: forties that like was in fact, until people could travel

451
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 1: to exotic places and get tan and display that they

452
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 1: were wealthy by being tan. They used to display their wealth,

453
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 1: telegraph their wealth to others by being pale, to show

454
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 1: that they didn't have to like work in the fields

455
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 1: and stuff. And so it's sort of the ideal of

456
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,440
Speaker 1: beauty to be very fair and pale and like, I've

457
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 1: never seen the sun. And then that started to change

458
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,360
Speaker 1: as society changed and travel became easier. People wore more

459
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 1: sunscreen to avoid sunburns. People got more cancers because they

460
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,360
Speaker 1: were in the sun more often. That's really all it is.

461
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I will also say detection rates for these things

462
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 2: have gone up over time, and so it is. You know,

463
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 2: in eighteen fifty, if you got a melanoma, you just died.

464
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 2: Nobody was like, hey, you know, let me screen you

465
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 2: every six months for a weird mole and take it

466
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 2: off and diagnose you. But then you're fine, you just died,

467
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,119
Speaker 2: And so it's a bit weird. To say, you know,

468
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 2: and probably you died from something else first anyway.

469
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:54,159
Speaker 1: So none of the chemicals in sunscreen have been associated

470
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,880
Speaker 1: with cancer, None of them damaged DNA, none of them

471
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 1: have a mechanism by which they could cause cancer. If

472
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,200
Speaker 1: I'm really like waving my hands and I want to

473
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 1: play Devil's advocate, I could say, well, maybe wearing sunscreen

474
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 1: gives you a false sense of security when you're out

475
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 1: in the sun, and so you sort of spend more

476
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 1: time in the sun and you don't reapply as often

477
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: as you should, and maybe that's a risk factor. But

478
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 1: you can't really blame the sunscreen for that, right, Like

479
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 1: it doesn't cause cancer.

480
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 2: And we have a fair amount of data that wearing

481
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 2: sunscreen reliably reduces cancer. So I think the best data

482
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 2: comes from Australia. So there's a trial published in the

483
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:36,119
Speaker 2: late nineteen nineties sixteen hundred Australians. They were randomized to

484
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 2: either daily SBF fifteen or discretionary use, which just meant

485
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 2: use it whenever you want. Since people don't use do things,

486
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 2: they use less. Over a period about five years, there

487
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 2: was a thirty eight percent lower rate of I never

488
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 2: know how to scream.

489
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 1: Famous cell carcinoma.

490
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 2: Weamous cell carcinoma over eight years of follow up, and

491
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:04,159
Speaker 2: there is a non significant but sizable reduction in the

492
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 2: number of invasive melanomas. Melanomas is fairly uncommon, so there

493
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 2: were only three invasive melanomas in the sunscreen group and

494
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 2: eleven in the other group. And so that's that's not

495
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,239
Speaker 2: really enough to be statistically confident, but it is. It

496
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,160
Speaker 2: is meaningful. I think that's our best. I think that's

497
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 2: our best randomized data.

498
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 1: It's a randomized trial. It wasn't even that much SPF.

499
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 1: I mean, fifteen is kind of on the low end

500
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,400
Speaker 1: of what we would probably use today, and it's good.

501
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 1: The observational data, like influencers will pull out studies that

502
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 1: you can find studies that show people use sunscreen have

503
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: lower rates of cancer, Studies that show that people use

504
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 1: sunscreen have higher rates of cancer of skin cancers. So

505
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,959
Speaker 1: much of this is what we call confounding by indication, right,

506
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: which is that people who are at higher risk use

507
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: more sunscreen.

508
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 2: Right.

509
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 1: Because it's not randomized, it's you see a similar thing.

510
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 1: I'm almost like has an to say it. People who

511
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:05,680
Speaker 1: take statins have a higher risk of heart attack, overall

512
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: than the general population of people who don't take statins,

513
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 1: because people who take statins take them for a reason

514
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,160
Speaker 1: because they're at higher risk of heart disease. They're older,

515
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 1: they have diabetes, they have high cholesterol, whereas an eighteen

516
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 1: year old who's perfectly healthy doesn't take a statin and

517
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 1: is unlikely to have a heart attack. So this is

518
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: all over the observational literature, which is why you need

519
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: randomized trials. We have one sunscreen reduces the risk of

520
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 1: skin cancer.

521
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 2: We call that reverse causality, not count but like in economics,

522
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 2: this thing, I mean, it is just like an interesting

523
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 2: like there's different words for this. We call it a

524
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 2: reverse causality, which I like better because I think it's

525
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 2: easier to say than confounding my indication, and it makes

526
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 2: more sense.

527
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 1: Well, cheerfully withdrawn, all right.

528
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 2: There are multiple kinds of sunscreen that one could use.

529
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 2: There is mineral sunscreen. This is the sunscreen that makes

530
00:27:53,600 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 2: your face white. It blocks with zinc or titanium dioxide,

531
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 2: and you two.

532
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 1: Can look like an eighteenth century consumptive.

533
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 2: Queen Elizabeth covered her face in lead, and you can

534
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 2: cover your face in zinc oxide and achieve the same

535
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 2: activity without the facial pitting.

536
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was surprised actually to find I didn't actually

537
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 1: know this zinc oxide has broader spectrum coverage. So the

538
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: way these work, by the way, is just it's a

539
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 1: physical barrier, like the UV reflects off the tiny particles

540
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: of zinc or titanium and just reflects into a way

541
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 1: towards someone else. Zinc does that both for UVA and UVB,

542
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 1: whereas titanium is really UVB focused, and so some dermatologists

543
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 1: will recommend to make sure that if you're using titanium alone,

544
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: like you want to be using something else for UVA,

545
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 1: particularly because you don't want that skin aging effects For

546
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: those of you who don't want to look like eighteenth

547
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 1: century consumptives. These nanoparticle formulations that they have now are

548
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 1: a little less white. I don't know if you've tried them, Emily,

549
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: they look okay there and they seem to and medically speaking,

550
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 1: they're just as good as the other kinds.

551
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 2: They're also chemical sunscreens, and that is anything you're using

552
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 2: in a spray. There are other chemical sunscreens which are

553
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 2: using chemicals to block the UBA and UVB light. They

554
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 2: do not turn your face white. Some people are afraid

555
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 2: of these due to concerns about endocrine disruption from some

556
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 2: of the chemicals that are used in this. And we'll

557
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 2: say that if you feed a rat very very high

558
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 2: doses of some of the chemicals in these sunscreens over

559
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 2: their whole lifetime, it is not good for them and

560
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 2: their reproductive system. But the kinds of level of exposure

561
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 2: that you have as a person using the sunscreen is

562
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 2: very different than if you are a rat who's primarily

563
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 2: eating it. And in fact, people have looked carefully at

564
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 2: you know, how much would you have to use sunscreen,

565
00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 2: like over your whole life cycle to get to this exposure,

566
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 2: and it's like not feasible. So I would say if

567
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 2: chemical sunscreen is the thing that is easier for you

568
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 2: or more acceptable, you should use that. And if you

569
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 2: like the white stuff, that's also great. And if you

570
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 2: want to just wear a lot of clothing instead that

571
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 2: is also okay, but less feasible for most people and

572
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 2: especially for kids.

573
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: Totally agree, whatever will make it easier for you to

574
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 1: use for the chemical sunscreen, So those chemicals also have

575
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: different levels of VA and UVB protection. The FDA has

576
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: an official labeling for stuff that covers both and it's

577
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: broad spectrum, so you do want a sunscreen that has

578
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:41,959
Speaker 1: that broad spectrum coverage on it that's legally regulated.

579
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 2: Also, you don't need SPF three billion, so they will

580
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 2: sell very expensive spfs like SPF one hundred or is

581
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 2: it really make any sense given what I understand to

582
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 2: be what this means, But SBF thirty is the American

583
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 2: Dermatological Society says sp thirty or higher, So thirty to

584
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 2: fifty you do not have to have, you know, ninety nine,

585
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 2: which is expensive.

586
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: There is one part of sun hitting your skin that

587
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: I debated putting in this episode, Emily, but I think

588
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: we just have to talk about it, and that is

589
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 1: should we be sunning our perineums. Let me play you

590
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: a clip from Mister health Nut. Oh, this is a

591
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: good one.

592
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 5: Okay, here we are guys. You guys ask about the

593
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 5: butthole sunning all the time, and this is another one

594
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 5: of my practices. I don't always talk about it, but

595
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,959
Speaker 5: it's well known that your fater or your butthole is

596
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 5: one of the most sensitive or thin mucous membranes in

597
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,959
Speaker 5: the body. Thirty seconds of sun on the butthole is

598
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 5: like eight hours of sun outside with your clothes on,

599
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 5: and so let's basically, the sun is the source of

600
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 5: all energy, and so you're getting that sunlight up into

601
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 5: the channels of the body. You're giving yourself a nice

602
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 5: energetic electrical butt plug. For men, sun on your testicles

603
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 5: or naked sun is good for testosterone boostings. This is

604
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 5: just energy for the soul.

605
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 2: My favorite part of that Cliff Perry is when he

606
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 2: says he doesn't people don't talk about it all the time.

607
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 2: It's like, that's true, that's true. You talk about this

608
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 2: all that.

609
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: Can you describe what you're watching for people who are

610
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 1: listening to this in audio format.

611
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 2: There's a man. He's both shirtless and pantiless, although you

612
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 2: can't see too much, and his legs are over his head,

613
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 2: and it is obvious that he is exposing his butthole

614
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 2: to the sun while explaining the benefits of doing so.

615
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: This this is in the zeitgeist in no small part

616
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 1: because Tucker Carlson himself tried this. He had some documentary

617
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: on you know, being a man or manliness in America,

618
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:06,479
Speaker 1: and some somehow this incredibly unmanly thing. Like I just

619
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 1: I look at this video and like this just does

620
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: not scream macho to me. Apparently boosts your testosterone or

621
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 1: something like that.

622
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I should say, your buttole and your paraneum are

623
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 2: actually not the same thing. So first of all, that's

624
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 2: not the scientific word for your anus. But there's the

625
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 2: paraneum is the area between your either vagina or your

626
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 2: scrotum and your and your butthole. So I guess all

627
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 2: of that area could be sunned, but don't do Yeah,

628
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 2: you get sunburned. That's the terrible way to get a terrible,

629
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 2: painful sunburn in a very uncomfortable area.

630
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 1: Absolutely, First of all, this doesn't work. There is some

631
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 1: data that human testosterone levels peak in late summer early autumn,

632
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 1: but that has nothing to do with your premium and

633
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 1: it probably doesn't even have anything to do with sun exposure.

634
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 1: There's multiple factors that change testosterone levels, so that's nothing.

635
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: And there's some risk here s digging in. So people

636
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 1: with psyriasis can get UV therapy, so ultraviolet lights to

637
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 1: treat the psoriasis. UV light is immunosuppressive to some extent.

638
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: That's one of the reasons that cancers can develop with

639
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 1: excessive UV exposure. But for psoriasis, you want to suppress

640
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:21,439
Speaker 1: the immune system. And when they first started doing this,

641
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 1: they found that people getting UVA and B therapy for

642
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 1: psoriasis had a fourfold increase in genital tumors. And that

643
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 1: was because the skin around the genitals is very thin,

644
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 1: so that high energy uv B can penetrate to more

645
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 1: important stuff than it can in the other parts of

646
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 1: your body. And so now the guideline recommendations for people

647
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 1: getting that therapy even whole body u v A u

648
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 1: v B for psoriasis is to specifically cover the genital area,

649
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 1: the perineum. So don't do this, Okay, should take a break.

650
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:57,839
Speaker 2: I feel like we're going to take a break. If

651
00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 2: you need to go sun your buttthole, this is a

652
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 2: great time. And then come back and we'll talk about

653
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 2: vitamin D. Welcome back. We are going to turn to

654
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 2: vitamin D and whether the need for more vitamin D

655
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 2: is part of why you should be exposed to the sun.

656
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 2: Let me set the stage here by saying there are

657
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 2: many vitamins AC a bunch of different B vitamins. Most

658
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 2: of these you get through your food. Vitamin D is

659
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 2: one that you get some through your food but also

660
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 2: through exposure to the sun. Like other vitamins, if you

661
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 2: do not have enough of this, it's very bad. So

662
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 2: vitamins are in general substances that our body cannot produce

663
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 2: on its own, so we must be getting from some

664
00:35:53,360 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 2: outside source. Like extensive Vitamin D deficiency is associated with

665
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 2: with rickets in kids with kind of bone decay. You

666
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 2: need vitamin D to support to support your bone, but

667
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 2: you basically can't get enough of it through food, So

668
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 2: most foods don't have very much at all. Your milk

669
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,839
Speaker 2: is fortified with that, but most people in the US

670
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,320
Speaker 2: are not getting anything close to the appropriate amount of

671
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 2: vitamin D in food, and so they have to get

672
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 2: it through the sun. Okay, how does it happen, science Perry,

673
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 2: How do you get vitamin D through the sun. It

674
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:31,319
Speaker 2: involves the kidney, So I'm going to give this to you.

675
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it does. So you have in your skin a

676
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 1: substance called seven D hydro cholesterol, which is a cholesterol derivative,

677
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 1: and UVB converts that to vitamin D three. So you've

678
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 1: probably seen D three supplements in the GENC or CBS

679
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 1: or whatever. That's what it is. Vitamin D three is

680
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 1: not active. It has no physiologic effects. But it is

681
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,840
Speaker 1: a substrate that gets converted by the liver to twenty

682
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: five hydroxy vitamin D that is also not active. You

683
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,320
Speaker 1: can get a prescription for that. This is called Ergo

684
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 1: calcifer All, but it's generally not sold in stores. That

685
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 1: twenty five vitamin D goes to the kidneys and becomes

686
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 1: one twenty five hydroxyl vitamin D, and that and only

687
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:25,439
Speaker 1: that is the biologically active form of vitamin D. There's

688
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,360
Speaker 1: a prescription form of that as well, called calci trial,

689
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: which is very expensive and has a lot of side effects.

690
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 1: But basically there's a lot of processes in your body

691
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 1: that are designed to get you to vitamin D and

692
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 1: it all starts with UVB exposure. But I think what

693
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 1: will surprise people is how much vitamin D you get

694
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 1: from a little bit of sunlight. So the recommended daily

695
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 1: intake for vitamin D is varies. Two hundred to four

696
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 1: hundred international units is sort of typical, and you'll see

697
00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:00,800
Speaker 1: supplements ranging from like one thousand to two thousand international

698
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: units per day vitamin D supplements. If you had UVB

699
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:09,240
Speaker 1: exposure for twenty minutes to your whole body, so imagine

700
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 1: twenty minutes on the beach. If you're a light skinned individual,

701
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: and this is an important consideration, that produces approximately ten

702
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:21,760
Speaker 1: thousand international units of D three, so about ten times

703
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 1: the dose you'd get from from taking a vitamin that's

704
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 1: twenty minutes.

705
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 2: It is also, I think important to say at this

706
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:33,399
Speaker 2: point that you cannot overdose on vitamin D through the sun.

707
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 2: So you could if you were outside for a very

708
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 2: long time, like putting aside the sunburn risk, and you

709
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 2: say you were outside for five hours, and so it's

710
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 2: going to be you know, many bajillion units of vitamin

711
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:48,240
Speaker 2: D that will just that does that does not cause

712
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 2: you to overdose, whereas taking that amount in a supplement

713
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 2: would actually be quite dangerous.

714
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 1: Thank you for saying that. Yes, the sun degrades vitamin

715
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 1: D three in the skin, so as it's making it,

716
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 1: if there's a ton there, it'll degrade and sort of

717
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 1: noth It puts the brakes on automatically, but it ingested.

718
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,280
Speaker 1: Vitamin D three is its own thing. People can absolutely

719
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,320
Speaker 1: overdose on this stuff. You can get something called milk

720
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:19,280
Speaker 1: alkali syndrome fascinating. You can get very high calcium levels

721
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 1: which can cause a lot of things, kidney damage, coma arrhythmias,

722
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 1: bad stuff. I think though, the reason vitamin D comes

723
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 1: up a lot is that we have a slew of

724
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 1: studies linking low vitamin D level measured vitamin D. And

725
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 1: I'll just say, typically when people are measuring vitamin D

726
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 1: in the blood, they're often measuring twenty five vitamin D

727
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 1: that liver one before it gets the kidney. It's just

728
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 1: an easier test to run than the real vitamin D.

729
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 1: It's fine, but we have a slew of studies linking

730
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: low vitamin D levels to a variety of diseases. And

731
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 1: I listed a few. So vit D level increases the

732
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 1: risk of cancer. Well, vitamin D level increases the risk

733
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 1: of cardiovascular disease. Low vitamin D level increases the risk

734
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 1: of diabetes. Low vitamin D increases the risk of falls,

735
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:15,319
Speaker 1: COVID all cause mortality. Like, looking at all that observational data,

736
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 1: you'd be like, oh my god, vitamin D is the

737
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 1: most important thing in the world. But Emily, we don't

738
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 1: like observational data. What are the randomized trials of vitamin

739
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 1: D supplementation show us?

740
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 2: The randomized trials of vitamin D supplementation show us that

741
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 2: there's nothing so they're actually a large number of randomized

742
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,360
Speaker 2: trials on all of the outcomes that you have listed.

743
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 2: Some of it is the same trial looking at and

744
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 2: these trials are big, you know, twenty five twenty six

745
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:54,400
Speaker 2: thousand people true placebo control trials, and they just don't

746
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 2: show anything. They just show no differences. When you supplement

747
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 2: people with vitamin D, it doesn't look any different. They don't.

748
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 2: Nothing different happens than if they weren't supplemented with vitamin D.

749
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 2: And this is because the observational data is driven by bias,

750
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 2: by the fact that the people who are taking the

751
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 2: vitamin D are different from the people who don't take

752
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 2: the vitamin D. And in fact, like before I get

753
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 2: off my high horse about this, we have for many

754
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:26,240
Speaker 2: years been telling people to take vitamin D, like vitamin

755
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 2: D is good for you, take vitamin D to prevent cancer.

756
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 2: And so not only is there this baseline just like

757
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 2: people who take more vitamins tend to be positively selected

758
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 2: in various ways, but over time we've made that worse

759
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 2: with our advice. So we tell people take vitamin D,

760
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 2: and the people who take the vitamin D are also

761
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:44,760
Speaker 2: the people who are doing all of the other things,

762
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 2: and so the problem has gotten like worse and worse

763
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 2: and worse over time. About a half of Americans take

764
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 2: a vitamin D supplement now, and if you look at

765
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 2: what half it is, it's also the half that's exercising

766
00:41:55,800 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 2: and eating vegetables and doing other the things that not smoking,

767
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 2: and so it just it's just a classic case where

768
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:08,800
Speaker 2: like the observational data is super is super misleading.

769
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,879
Speaker 1: Even people, even if you excludeople who are supplementing at all,

770
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 1: you do find observationally that lower level like blood level

771
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:17,719
Speaker 1: of vitamin D associates with all these bad outcomes. But

772
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 1: the way I often describe it is that vitamin D,

773
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 1: your vitamin D level, if you're getting your vitamin D measured,

774
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: it's very much a lifestyle biomarker. Like if you are

775
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:32,360
Speaker 1: the type of person who goes outside and gets sun

776
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 1: and exercises and touches grass, like you're going to have

777
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 1: and it's a very diet right with multiple sources of

778
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 1: vitamin D in it, you're going to have a higher

779
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 1: vitamin D level. Conversely, if you're a person who is

780
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:48,919
Speaker 1: sick from other things, who is you know, has nutritional deficiencies,

781
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 1: who isn't getting outside and getting exercise, you're going to

782
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:54,399
Speaker 1: have a low vitamin D level. It is a very

783
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 1: nice marker of kind of overall health, but that doesn't

784
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 1: necessarily mean that making the marker look better makes your

785
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 1: health look better. It's it's the canary in the coal mine,

786
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 1: and you know, bringing in a better canary or whatever

787
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 1: doesn't fix the coal mine. That's a bit of a

788
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 1: tortured analogy.

789
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 2: Sorry, can see I see where you were going with that. Yeah,

790
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 2: So from the perspective of the sun, I will say, like,

791
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,400
Speaker 2: you know, you are probably getting enough vitamin D from

792
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:25,359
Speaker 2: your exposure to the sun already, and you don't need

793
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:27,799
Speaker 2: to either stand outside more in the sun for more

794
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:30,760
Speaker 2: vitamin D, nor do you need to take a vitamin

795
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 2: D supplement.

796
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is a bit harder of course in the

797
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 1: winter and in certain climates where the sun doesn't shine

798
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:40,839
Speaker 1: as much, and it is certainly harder for darker skinned individuals.

799
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:44,279
Speaker 1: That melanin that protects the DNA in your cells from

800
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:48,880
Speaker 1: uv causing mutations also decreases the ability of UVB to

801
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:53,320
Speaker 1: help synthesize vitamin D, and so if you are darker skinned,

802
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 1: there's more rationale for focusing on dietary intake of vitamin D.

803
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 1: I'm still not very pro supplement of vitamin D just

804
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:04,279
Speaker 1: because even in the randomized trials, we don't see a

805
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:07,720
Speaker 1: signal across any skin tone for benefit.

806
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 2: By and large, totally right, I'm a negative on vitamin

807
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 2: D supplements, even though my many people are always telling

808
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 2: me to take them, but I don't.

809
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:19,839
Speaker 1: Nope, them don't do it.

810
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 2: All right, So the sun necessary for your vitamin D,

811
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 2: but you know, need more of it. Sunscreen very important.

812
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 2: There are other ways in which we have evolved to

813
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 2: like the sun in particular. It makes us happy. Yeah,

814
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:39,359
Speaker 2: people like to go outside and be in the sun.

815
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 1: That's nice.

816
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there, and we see this well, we

817
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 2: see it in observational data where you know, people spend

818
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 2: more time outside have a lower risk of depression. Is

819
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 2: that causal? I don't. I don't know, But we do

820
00:44:56,760 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 2: have evidence on seasonal effective disorder, which responds to light therapy,

821
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:04,840
Speaker 2: So I think there's a sort of clear randomized trial

822
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 2: that supports a mechanism that light exposure makes us happier.

823
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 2: Seasonal effective disorder is actually a big problem in a

824
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 2: lot of these countries where it's really dark all the time.

825
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:17,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's interesting it does not appear to be

826
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 1: vitamin D mediated, so it's not that your vitamin D

827
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 1: gets low and that's what causes sadness, because vitamin D

828
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 1: supplementation does not improve seasonal effective disorder, but the blue

829
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 1: light therapy does. That's clear. As you say, from randomized trials.

830
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 1: A lot of the mechanism apparently is circadian sleep disruption,

831
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 1: and the blue light therapy is done early in the

832
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 1: morning to sort of reset your circadian clock. And if

833
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 1: there's any theme of the Wellness actually podcast, it is

834
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:48,319
Speaker 1: that sleep is the most important thing and is tied

835
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 1: to everything else, and so I think this is yet

836
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:51,279
Speaker 1: another example of that.

837
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, sleep is very important.

838
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: Yes, I found a couple of other weird like sun

839
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 1: benefits that I'm curious what you think about out Emily.

840
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 1: One is some fairly consistent links between low childhood sun

841
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 1: exposure and subsequent multiple sclerosis. So multiple sclerosis is clearly

842
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 1: diagnosed more in the northern latitudes. And this is not

843
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 1: just a rich country, poor country thing, because even across

844
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 1: for example, the United States, like the further north you are,

845
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: the higher the risk of multiple sclerosis is. I don't

846
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 1: have a great mechanism for why this would be. But like,

847
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 1: it's not just one or two studies that have found

848
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 1: this link. And I don't know, what do you think?

849
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:42,840
Speaker 1: Do you think that there's an MS sunlight?

850
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 2: Things a little hard to tell from studies that are

851
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:49,720
Speaker 2: on this. Most of these are what's called the case

852
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 2: control study, and so they identify, you know, because multiple

853
00:46:55,480 --> 00:47:00,359
Speaker 2: sclerosis is not common. I mean, it's not vanishing were

854
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 2: but it's not like it's not a common thing, so

855
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 2: you don't see it that much in these large population studies.

856
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 2: The way these studies often work is they will take

857
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:10,399
Speaker 2: a set of people who have the diagnosis and then

858
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 2: find some other people without the diagnosis, and you know,

859
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 2: compare them on feature like questions, they ask them survey questions,

860
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 2: other other characteristics. That kind of study has all of

861
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:25,319
Speaker 2: the problems of basic observational data that you know, these

862
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 2: groups may differ for in many other ways. It also

863
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 2: has a problem that they differ in how you select them,

864
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:35,320
Speaker 2: and you're asking about stuff often that happened in the past.

865
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 2: It's just it's not a it's not a very strong

866
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:41,879
Speaker 2: empirical approach. It's sometimes the only approach that we have.

867
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:43,840
Speaker 2: And so I don't want to like say, we should

868
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 2: never look at this, but it feels as an approach,

869
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 2: like something that would generate a hypothesis rather than prove one. Sure,

870
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 2: and so this sort of this feels like there's probably

871
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 2: something more clever someone could do to try to get

872
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 2: more of an answer here. We don't understand that much

873
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 2: about ms and what drives people. It seems clear that

874
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:08,719
Speaker 2: there's genetic risks, but also the epigenetic issues and other

875
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 2: things that happen. So it's an interesting research area. My

876
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 2: guess is that sun exposure will not turn out to

877
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 2: be the most important feature here.

878
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:19,759
Speaker 1: Fair enough, if it gives people motivation to get their

879
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 1: kids outside in the sun, hits you all for the good,

880
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 1: but make sure they're wearing their sunscreen.

881
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:29,400
Speaker 2: There is actually some better evidence that outdoor time reduces myopia.

882
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 2: That's probably not just about the sun but about being outside.

883
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 2: Oh sure, and some of that is from randomized data.

884
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess it turns out that

885
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess our moms were right, which is

886
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:43,919
Speaker 1: like sitting too close to the TV is gonna ruin

887
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:46,920
Speaker 1: your eyesight? Right, like you when you're outside, you're forced

888
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 1: to what is it accommodate your pupils to distance, which

889
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:54,760
Speaker 1: flexes those muscles a little.

890
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:57,799
Speaker 2: Bit, right, something like that. Yes, anyway, it's good to

891
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 2: go outside. Yeah, that's another theme of wellness. Go outside

892
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 2: and then also go to sleep, but not outside.

893
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 1: Right right, All right, Emily, I think it's time to

894
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 1: decide whether this sun thing is all it's cooked up

895
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 1: to be. Smash or pass the sun.

896
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 2: I'm a smash. I mean, you know, it has its limitations,

897
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 2: but I would say on the whole, I'm pleased that

898
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:27,239
Speaker 2: we have the sun around, and I'm going to keep

899
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:28,319
Speaker 2: I like to keep it.

900
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 1: I agree, smash the sun is one of my top

901
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:35,400
Speaker 1: five stars.

902
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,520
Speaker 2: What is your second favorite star? Is it Alpha cent Jerry?

903
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:47,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's Rice actually, because that's where the pleasure planet

904
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 1: is in Star Trek. That's for tomorrow's husband.

905
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,759
Speaker 2: I will say, I'm going to pass vitamin D supplements

906
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 2: because we also talked about that, and I'm going to

907
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 2: smash sunscreen. What about you?

908
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:05,840
Speaker 1: I will pass on vitamin D supplementation and smash sunscreen.

909
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:10,359
Speaker 2: Yes, amazing. All right, that's it for the sun your

910
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 2: mail back question of the week after the break. All right,

911
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 2: let's move to our question of the week, and if

912
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:22,760
Speaker 2: you have a question, you can go to Wellness actually

913
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:25,879
Speaker 2: dot FM and leave us a recording and we will

914
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 2: try to answer it all Right this week, here's a

915
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:33,800
Speaker 2: question Hi, Emily and Harry set between my husband and me.

916
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 1: Which organs can you?

917
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 2: No?

918
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 1: Thanks, this is such a fun question.

919
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 2: It's the kidney, right, you only need one of those.

920
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 2: I know they're your favorite, but it's not important.

921
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 1: Oh well, if we're saying we can only take out one,

922
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 1: then you can definitely take out one. Long that's fine.

923
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:53,720
Speaker 1: You can take me half a liver basically. Oh sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.

924
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 2: Okay, so I could take I only knew one of

925
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:56,480
Speaker 2: my lungs.

926
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:59,439
Speaker 1: Come on, I was yeah. I mean, I'm not saying

927
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:02,720
Speaker 1: it's going to be great, but you're you're you're fine.

928
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 1: You can take out people's hole lung all the time

929
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:07,320
Speaker 1: for cancer and stuff like that. I thought this question

930
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,360
Speaker 1: was the whole organ system, in which case I was

931
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 1: going to say kidney because of dialysis, because we don't

932
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 1: really have a die out, so kidneys clean the blood

933
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 1: and dialysis can kind of take over that for people

934
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:24,880
Speaker 1: who have end stage kidney disease, which you would have

935
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:29,360
Speaker 1: if both your kidneys were removed. It's it's not the

936
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 1: greatest thing in the world. You're getting four hours of

937
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:34,440
Speaker 1: dialysis three times a week, but you you'd stay alive.

938
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 1: And we don't really have that. I'm trying to think,

939
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 1: we don't really have that for anything else.

940
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:40,319
Speaker 2: I mean, what about your reproductive organs. We could take

941
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 2: out your your scuteris, your ovaries? Yeah, who needs no

942
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:48,840
Speaker 2: problem not not using them all the time?

943
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 1: Yeap our producer to Mars's gallbladder. Sure you can remove that.

944
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:53,839
Speaker 1: Is that an organ?

945
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:55,760
Speaker 2: Is that an organ?

946
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 5: Yeah?

947
00:51:56,040 --> 00:52:01,840
Speaker 1: I don't think like a organ. Let's see brain you

948
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:04,640
Speaker 1: probably need you know.

949
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 2: You remove your whole colon.

950
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, we can get you can take out your whole colon.

951
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 1: That's that's done. M hm, spleen. Absolutely, you can do

952
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:22,759
Speaker 1: without a spleen. Wow, we can remove a lot.

953
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:25,400
Speaker 2: Let me ask you, Ferry, why did you choose to

954
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:27,320
Speaker 2: be a doctor specializing in one of the organs we

955
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 2: don't need. Why didn't you pick an organ that is necessary?

956
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 1: Oh? That that does hurt a little bit, but it's

957
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:36,799
Speaker 1: it's it's it's a good point. Do you know why.

958
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:39,760
Speaker 1: It's because the kidneys are one of the few organs

959
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:43,280
Speaker 1: where you can very easily measure the input which is blood,

960
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:47,920
Speaker 1: the output which is urine, and infer the miracle that

961
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:52,800
Speaker 1: is going on inside. Try that with anything any other organs.

962
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:57,839
Speaker 2: Very difficult, spoken like a true lover of kidneys. Uh

963
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:01,200
Speaker 2: in the human all right, so it turns out we

964
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 2: don't need many of our organs, but yet somehow, let's

965
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 2: just say there aren't. There's very few organs other than

966
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 2: maybe your reproductive organs where removing them even then probably

967
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:16,760
Speaker 2: this we're removing them like would not result in some

968
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:18,920
Speaker 2: change to how you would have to behave.

969
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're there for a reason.

970
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:24,719
Speaker 2: They're there for a reason evolution didn't. Except for the appendix,

971
00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 2: which is a waste of time, most of our stuff

972
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:33,879
Speaker 2: is useful. Okay, that's it. Join us next week when

973
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 2: we will ask what's the deal with gluten wellness? Actually

974
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 2: is produced in association with iHeartMedia. Our senior producer is

975
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:46,719
Speaker 2: Tamar Avishai. Our executive producer at iHeart is Jennifer Bassett.

976
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:50,000
Speaker 2: Our theme music is by Eric Deutsch, and our content

977
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 2: is for educational purposes only.

978
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 1: If you like the show, help other people find us,

979
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:57,600
Speaker 1: leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, or your

980
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:00,479
Speaker 1: podcatcher of choice and help us spread the word about

981
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:03,520
Speaker 1: the show. You can follow us on Instagram at Wellness

982
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:06,759
Speaker 1: Actually pod and don't forget we want to hear from you.

983
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:09,680
Speaker 1: Head over to Wellness Actually dot fm and leave us

984
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 1: a question for our mailbag or suggest a topic for

985
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:12,959
Speaker 1: a future show.

986
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:16,439
Speaker 2: We'll let the influencers have the last word. The Sun

987
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:20,280
Speaker 2: is a mass of incandescent gass, a gigantic nuclear furnace

988
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 2: where hydrogen is used into heale at temperatures of millions

989
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:24,240
Speaker 2: of degrees.

990
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 1: Right, Oh, let's do the whole thing, because it's not rigel,

991
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 1: it's risa. They're gonna get me on that, all right,

992
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:40,359
Speaker 1: except they said the wrong planet, all right, Emily, with

993
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:45,319
Speaker 1: that the tough question, the Sun? Is it all? It's

994
00:55:45,440 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 1: cracked up to be? Smasher? Pass the Sun? H uh?

995
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:10,439
Speaker 1: For the Sun? I will. I will smash the Sun.

996
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:15,399
Speaker 1: It is one of my five favorite stars in the galaxy.

997
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:22,680
Speaker 1: And I will pass on vitamin D supplementation and smash sunscreen.

998
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 2: Yes.

999
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 4: Hm,