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Speaker 1: Welcome into Northside Territory Foul Territory Network's Cubs podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: Sahadev Sharma with my partner Patrick Moody. We are your

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Speaker 1: Cubs beat writers over at the Athletic Patrick get his

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Speaker 1: time for another mail bag episode. So let's not delay

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Speaker 1: and let's just get right to the questions. Back to

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Speaker 1: back seasons, the Cubs have lost their ace to season

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Speaker 1: ending armage issues. Both Steele and Horton came up with

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Speaker 1: the Cubs organization bad luck or is it something that

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Speaker 1: could be going on organizationally with pitching. That's from Justin

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Speaker 1: de Vorak. I think it's a fair question, but it

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Speaker 1: too it's too hard to really know the answer to

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Speaker 1: that one hundred percent. I would say it. I would

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Speaker 1: lean bad luck because pitching is inherently an injury, like

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Speaker 1: a risky proposition that you're going to have injuries with

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Speaker 1: your pitching. There's a reason the Cubs came into the

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Speaker 1: season talking about their depth, and the reason like they well,

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Speaker 1: the reason they went into their off season talking about

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Speaker 1: building up their depth. This is this is that big

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Speaker 1: reason that they were trying to prepare for this. Justin

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Speaker 1: Steele's first, like Justin Steel and Kate Horton have elbow

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Speaker 1: surgeries in their past before these surgeries, and Horton's was

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Speaker 1: in college. Steele's was almost immediately upon being drafted under

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Speaker 1: a completely different, uh, you know, player development plan. So

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Speaker 1: it'd be hard to link this to the organization, especially

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Speaker 1: when you see like maybe if we see like a

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Speaker 1: run of it. And and also I think it's important

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Speaker 1: to mention that when you do train for velocity, which

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Speaker 1: is what they did under Breslo and what they're doing

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Speaker 1: under Zambro, now, you will see a spike in injuries.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that's what happened to Kate Horton and

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Speaker 1: Justin Steel just because they're not in player development, like

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Speaker 1: you know, they're not training for velocity per se. I

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Speaker 1: don't think they change their training habits. But it'd be

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Speaker 1: hard to connect that right now. Look at the team

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Speaker 1: like the Dodgers that you see a lot of injuries

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Speaker 1: there and people wonder what's going on with their player development.

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Speaker 1: They're still winning World Series after World Series.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I love Justin's question has been in the back

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Speaker 2: of my mind something you know, it's worth asking around about.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if there is that answer. I don't

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Speaker 2: know if it's bad luck as almost to be expected,

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Speaker 2: like you said, so, yeah, when basically Steele got Tommy

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Speaker 2: John surgery, you know, shortly after entering the Cubs organization,

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Speaker 2: Kate Horton already had a Tommy John surgery in his

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Speaker 2: file when when he came on board. But there is

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Speaker 2: something going on organizationally with pitching. I know'st have you

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Speaker 2: been kind of working on this, letting things play out

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Speaker 2: a bit before you kind of write any sort of

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Speaker 2: definitive story. But yeah, Tyler Zambro is taking on a

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Speaker 2: bigger role here. I think Craig Breslo did a lot

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Speaker 2: of good things with the Cubs or things he could

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Speaker 2: point to, but that took a lot of trial and error.

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Speaker 2: I mean there were years there where we were hearing

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Speaker 2: several complaints about like what is going on here, that

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Speaker 2: some of this max effort training, that there was a

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Speaker 2: cost to that.

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Speaker 3: And now, you know, I.

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Speaker 2: Think with Steel, the Cups probably get more credit for

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Speaker 2: kind of the patience to let him develop into that

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Speaker 2: all star pitcher. And the Horton plan looked pretty good

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Speaker 2: last year all the way up until late September when

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Speaker 2: he got sidelined with that fractured rib. So I guess

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Speaker 2: no way to know, but we're going to keep asking

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Speaker 2: like that is kind of I think a top of

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Speaker 2: mind thing that that's when something like this happens. You

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Speaker 2: can't just sort of dismiss and say, well it just

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Speaker 2: like you throw up your arms. As all pictures get injured,

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Speaker 2: like when it's those two pictures and back to back years,

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Speaker 2: it's worth examining, you know, if there's anything they could

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Speaker 2: do differently.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I've specifically had people tell me, look, injuries

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Speaker 1: will spike, like that's going to happen. I do not

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Speaker 1: think that's correlating to what happened with Steel and Horton,

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Speaker 1: but I think you're going to see more injuries in

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Speaker 1: the minor league system. I think you saw it under

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Speaker 1: Breslo and you will see it under Zambro. It's what

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Speaker 1: happens when you train for velocity, which is what they're

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Speaker 1: being aggressive with it again, and and you need that

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Speaker 1: the best, the best farm systems just do like that's

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Speaker 1: that's how you how you develop pitching. Nowadays you try

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Speaker 1: and limit it and then I think they're trying to

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Speaker 1: be better about it, learn from it.

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Speaker 3: And Zambro is.

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Speaker 1: Very much the type who does focus more on injuries.

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Speaker 1: Then I'd say, like when drive Line first popped, it

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Speaker 1: was almost like injuries were just like like a shrug

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Speaker 1: of shoulders. This is what happens. I think zombre is.

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Speaker 1: If you watch his videos or pay attention to what

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Speaker 1: goes on at Dread, he talks a lot about that

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Speaker 1: and how you can limit injuries or reduce injury risk.

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Speaker 1: It's not a perfect science. I said this on the

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Speaker 1: last episode that comes. We're kind of blindsided by this

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Speaker 1: because they you know, I don't think I fully went

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Speaker 1: into what Carter Hawkins was talking about, but it's like

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Speaker 1: do you look back?

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Speaker 3: We asked him, do you look back on this? Like

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Speaker 3: what went wrong? What can you do?

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Speaker 1: And he's like, sure, we have to. But it's almost

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Speaker 1: like do we get an answer, like we'll look through it,

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Speaker 1: and it's like if we would have. You know, they

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Speaker 1: monitor everything. It's like, do you look at everything, go

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Speaker 1: over everything again and say do we miss something? But

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Speaker 1: you likely would have caught it at the time. That's

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Speaker 1: kind of like how these things work. But maybe there's

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Speaker 1: something they can learn from this and say, hey, this,

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Speaker 1: you know, when we see things like this or trends

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Speaker 1: like this, we need to be more careful. I'd be

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Speaker 1: surprised if there's something specific with Horton here, but in general,

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Speaker 1: there's there's It's a very imperfect science, and they're constantly

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Speaker 1: working to to to get better at it. Who knows

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Speaker 1: if they'll ever really figure it out? Uh oh, we

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Speaker 1: like I think this is an inevitable.

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Speaker 2: Evergreen question from Zach.

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Speaker 1: Zach is is the Bullpender concern or is it too

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Speaker 1: early to freak out? Look, I'm gonna say right away,

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Speaker 1: it's too early to freak out. Film Aton is a

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Speaker 1: mess right now. Talked to him for a while yesterday,

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Speaker 1: that would be Wednesday. He's he's fighting it mechanically. I

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Speaker 1: tried to make I wrote about Phil Maton this morning,

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Speaker 1: and here's my point. I think people are going to

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Speaker 1: go Hector and Aris Ryan Presley. Those guys were trending

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Speaker 1: down coming off bad seasons, and kind of like the

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Speaker 1: Cubs desperately need a veteran and we'll just take someone

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Speaker 1: and hope that they have like a last gasp season.

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Speaker 1: Phil Mayton was coming off an awesome season. His velocity

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Speaker 1: ticked up last year. According to Mayton, in that you

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Speaker 1: know constant search to always get better. He tried some

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Speaker 1: things this offseason and into the spring. He's realizing now

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Speaker 1: those things didn't work for him. He shouldn't have done

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Speaker 1: those things, and he's trying to get back to what

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Speaker 1: works for him mechanically and everything like that. He's very confident.

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Speaker 1: It is not like an impossible fix. It's a simple fix.

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Speaker 1: But those things still can take time to click. It

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Speaker 1: could take an outing or two, maybe longer. And I'll

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Speaker 1: point out, like I really struggle when people like just

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Speaker 1: assume these guys are done or like this is a

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Speaker 1: terrible signing, because it's like we just can we not

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Speaker 1: learn from history, Like how often do we see this?

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Speaker 1: Like literally, Phil Mayton had a twelve ERA eight outings

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Speaker 1: into twenty twenty four and then had a sub three

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Speaker 1: r in his next sixty three outings that that season.

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Speaker 1: We saw Caleb thielbar stink at the beginning of last year,

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Speaker 1: and by the end of the year you look at

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Speaker 1: his numbers and it's like that is one of the

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Speaker 1: most dominant lefties in the game.

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Speaker 3: We see it year after year.

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Speaker 1: If now, if he was coming off a terrible year,

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Speaker 1: if we've seen like, you know, a ton of data

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Speaker 1: to say like, this guy is on a clear downswing.

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Speaker 3: It's going to take a miracle to get better. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Then then I'd say like, Okay, this is looking ugly.

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Speaker 1: Like Ryan Press, I was like, let's be patient, but

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Speaker 1: this doesn't look great. Mayton is clearly a mechanical thing.

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Speaker 1: It's not like we're searching for something here. We don't

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Speaker 1: know what to do. I think I'm confident Mayton will

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Speaker 1: be better, and once he kind of locks in, then

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Speaker 1: I don't think you worry too much because then you

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Speaker 1: have Palencia Hunter, Harvey's been fine. I'm not that worried

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Speaker 1: about the bullpen. I think it's going to be hard

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Speaker 1: to recreate how good it was at times last year.

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Speaker 1: I think that that's the thing that is going to

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Speaker 1: be a great unit. I'm not sure beyond Mayton, Harvey, Palencia,

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Speaker 1: Ben Brown is solid. But then there are moments where

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Speaker 1: it's just like, what's going on? Man? I didn't think

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Speaker 1: I think some people thought yesterday's outing was bad. He

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Speaker 1: got five quick outs and then like a he gave

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Speaker 1: up a couple hits that led to a one run.

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Speaker 3: Not ideal.

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Speaker 1: You'd like to see him just shut it down and

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Speaker 1: then get two plus ny of work beyond that, you know,

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Speaker 1: I get the complaints. Jacob Webb has looked if he

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Speaker 1: I'm probably missing. The lefties have looked fine, right Milner

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Speaker 1: and theol bar is great. Milner's actually looked good after

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Speaker 1: I think a rough first outing. I think the main

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Speaker 1: concern is beaton and I think he'll get right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's too early to freak out, but

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Speaker 2: I think the bullpen is always a concern. I think

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Speaker 2: Zach's on the right track of Like, you know, while

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Speaker 2: Mayton was a big signing for the Cubs, it was

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Speaker 2: not been a big signing for like any of these

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Speaker 2: other National League contenders that loaded up on bullpen arms.

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Speaker 2: And I think we believe in Daniel Palencia, but he's

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Speaker 2: still young. I think by the trade deadline, the Cubs

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Speaker 2: are gonna want another high leverage guy to throw back there.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I think Hunter Harvey has a lot

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Speaker 2: going for him. But like you're managing a guy on

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Speaker 2: a one year deal, a reliever on a one year deal,

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Speaker 2: Like hopefully that means you as once you get into

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Speaker 2: the kind of heat of a Pennant race, that he

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Speaker 2: is kind of locked in, healthy, ready to roll.

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Speaker 3: But I don't know.

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Speaker 2: The way they've managed him, I think makes you wonder.

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Speaker 2: I was certainly his his his injury history is out

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Speaker 2: there as well. I mean, Caleb Thielwer is thirty nine

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Speaker 2: years old Brown and obviously Ray is not really in

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Speaker 2: the bullpen anymore. I think you felt better about the bullpen,

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Speaker 2: like when all of Ben Brown's kind of potential was

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Speaker 2: just back there and Colin Ray as like a swingman,

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Speaker 2: and now he's in the rotation. We know that this

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Speaker 2: organization isn't really great at pumping out those hard throwing relievers.

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Speaker 2: Kind of going back to the previous question, and so yeah, no,

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Speaker 2: don't freak out, but definitely something to keep an eye on,

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Speaker 2: especially when they have a pretty steady group of position players.

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Speaker 2: The rotation depth has already been tested, but I think

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Speaker 2: we agree it's still there at the moment. So like

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Speaker 2: the bullpen, is the just an easy area to fixate on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they have some depth to don't don't forget about

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Speaker 1: con Snyder triple A. I think as e ras bloated,

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Speaker 1: but the peripherals are good and I think and I

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Speaker 1: think they like what he's capable of doing. Corbyn Martin

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Speaker 1: has only pitched one inning at Triple A. I should

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Speaker 1: probably find out what's going on there. If anything, those

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Speaker 1: are two depth pieces outside of that, Ryan Rollinson's lefty

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Speaker 1: that they like, I don't know exactly what he's doing

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Speaker 1: in Triple A right now. It's something they're going to

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Speaker 1: add to. They're absolutely going to add to. We said

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Speaker 1: that whether it was a dominant force or not, they

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Speaker 1: are going to add at the deadline.

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Speaker 3: So you can freak out if you want.

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Speaker 1: I guess I'm not going to tell you not to

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Speaker 1: in that sense because I don't like to.

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Speaker 3: Tell fans how to fan. Uh but uh, I you have,

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Speaker 3: like I.

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Speaker 1: Think it's really important to remember how like it's not

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Speaker 1: like injuries have stacked up and it's not like day

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Speaker 1: after day everyone is just terrible. Like like like I said,

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Speaker 1: film Aton is the one I would focus on if

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Speaker 1: he locks in, I feel like a lot of things

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Speaker 1: fall into place. But yes, I think everything you said,

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Speaker 1: especially Hunter Harvey injury history, like it's fair like we

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Speaker 1: have to wonder, like what you're handling them with kid

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Speaker 1: gloves already, that's I get why they're doing that. But

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Speaker 1: also it's like, okay, you know, just a little bit

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Speaker 1: of a red flag there that we have to monitor

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Speaker 1: and keep an eye on.

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Speaker 3: Uh says our Charles asks.

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Speaker 1: I know it's early, but do you think the Cubs move,

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Speaker 1: say at the deadline. I think the Cubs really like

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Speaker 1: Sean Moballer and I want to see both in the

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Speaker 1: line up. I get this. I think the Cubs like

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Speaker 1: them both too. I think the Cubs think they're both

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Speaker 1: part of their future.

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Speaker 3: I think.

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Speaker 1: I think Saya in this lineup kind of changes things

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Speaker 1: and brings them up a level. I really like what

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Speaker 1: Matt Shaw has done at the plate early on. He

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Speaker 1: looks comfortable. It looks like he can kind of drive

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Speaker 1: the ball to all fields. I think Craig Council is

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Speaker 1: a type of manager that'll find him playing time. I

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Speaker 1: think he'll find Moys's biasteris playing time. Here's unless they're

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Speaker 1: unless they're sellers at the deadline. You don't trade Sea

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Speaker 1: unless you are Milwaukee, Tampa, Bay, Cleveland.

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Speaker 3: If you're winning, you.

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Speaker 1: Do not sell players that are helping you win right now.

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Speaker 1: Not a team like the Cups.

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Speaker 3: You don't do that.

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Speaker 1: Those teams that I mentioned, Yeah, it's happened, didn't it wasn't.

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Speaker 1: Milwaukee kind of in it when they when they traded

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Speaker 1: away Josh Hader and then Tampa does this all the time.

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Speaker 1: They do the half in, half out thing. Cleveland does

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Speaker 1: it pretty regularly.

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Speaker 3: Cleveland. I've talked to people in that front.

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Speaker 1: Office that basically say, we have to listen on anyone,

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Speaker 1: especially pictures, because they believe they can develop pictures really well.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't matter what's going on. If you blow them

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Speaker 3: away for someone, they will trade them. They will move them,

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Speaker 3: especially relievers.

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Speaker 1: So no, I don't I think it is like, is

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Speaker 1: it too early to talk about that. I don't think

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Speaker 1: the Cubs are going to trade, say a Suzuki at

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Speaker 1: the deadline unless they are out of it, unless something,

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Speaker 1: you know, injuries continue to mount and they and there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of struggles. Say is a huge piece

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Speaker 1: of this offense. And I think he's coming back. That's

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Speaker 1: a bit of news. You should make sure like everyone

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Speaker 1: knows he is coming back. Friday, he will be activated,

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Speaker 1: he's flying to Chicago. I think right now he will

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Speaker 1: be ready to go on Friday. And in the lineup,

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Speaker 1: how does corek council handle the lineup? How does he

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Speaker 1: fit in? Matt Shaw His answer was simply like, that's

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Speaker 1: a good problem to have he's already figured thinking through

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Speaker 1: lineups for the next week plus and how he'll get

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Speaker 1: guys in, but guys will get playing time. And hey,

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Speaker 1: how many times have we gotten questions complaining about the bench?

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Speaker 1: Now you have a better bench and Michael Confordo looks

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Speaker 1: really good after making some adjustments at the play too,

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Speaker 1: So the bench is looking much better.

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Speaker 2: Say it also has a full no trade close right,

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Speaker 2: So yeah, great point a lot of time on that one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, what do we got, Blake Dowson, Is it

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Speaker 1: more realistic that Kyle Wright or Lucas g Alito pitches

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Speaker 1: for the Cubs this season? I'm gonna say Kyle Wright

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Speaker 1: just because he's already in the org, you know, well.

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Speaker 3: I will say that I got some I don't.

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Speaker 1: Know how to phrase this, encouraging information on him in

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Speaker 1: spring training. They were just like, it's going to be

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Speaker 1: a process. Don't expect it like early on in the season,

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Speaker 1: but they thought they could get him to a good place.

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Speaker 1: And this is a guy I think he's had some

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Speaker 1: really good seasons in the past. Obviously a long injury history,

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Speaker 1: but when he was with Atlanta some you know, there was.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't that long ago.

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Speaker 1: Thirty starts in twenty twenty two, one hundred and eighty innings,

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Speaker 1: three point one nine ERA, So it was one really

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Speaker 1: good season, a ton of injuries. I'd say, Kyle Wright,

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Speaker 1: I'd be surprised if they end up with Giolito.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess non zero chance on either one of them, right,

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Speaker 2: slightly more realistic, like you say, because he's already in

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Speaker 2: the organization. I think if you're a Cubs fan, you're

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Speaker 2: probably hoping neither one of them pitches for the Cubs

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Speaker 2: this season against either guy. But in terms of where

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Speaker 2: they are on the depth chart at this point, you're

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Speaker 2: getting into that sort of eight number, eight, nine, yeah,

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Speaker 2: ten starter. But like, I don't know, also a non

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Speaker 2: zero chance that they both pitch for them this season, right,

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Speaker 2: Like I'm not, I'm not really, I'm you know, it's

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Speaker 2: so early. I wouldn't rule anything out at this point.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, unless Kyle Wright is like lighting up Triple A

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Speaker 1: when he comes back, and you're like, man, he he

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Speaker 1: deserves a starter. He could actually like impact this team,

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Speaker 1: which is just like a kind of out there scenario.

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Speaker 1: He was described to me as a wild card, So

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Speaker 1: you know, we'll see, we'll see what happens with him,

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Speaker 1: but I wouldn't hold my breath on either of them.

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Speaker 1: Ed Ghana asks, do you think the Cubs would move

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Speaker 1: shaff as starting pitching. I think this is an interesting question.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, good question. Yeah, what do you think Patrick?

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Speaker 2: I think you know, at this time last year or

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Speaker 2: I say around last year's trade Dellen, it was like

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Speaker 2: a definite no, right. I mean that was just like

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Speaker 2: their models love what Shaw can do into the future,

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Speaker 2: that's also projecting him at that time as a third baseman.

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Speaker 2: I think it's still sort of unlikely they would just

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Speaker 2: like give up on Shaw, but I think it's at

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Speaker 2: least a little more plausible now that they've signed Alex

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Speaker 2: Bregman as a free agent, they've extended Nico Horner, and

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Speaker 2: their depth is already it's not totally depleted yet, but

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Speaker 2: it's certainly compromised at this point. And it's like, you know,

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Speaker 2: he wouldn't be their first choice to move, but I

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Speaker 2: don't think it's outside the realm of possibility. Again, this

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Speaker 2: is not the Cubs are shopping Matt Shaw, but I

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Speaker 2: mean they were engaged in these sort of scenarios, or

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Speaker 2: they were at least in listening mode all the way

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Speaker 2: up to like the start of spring training, and I

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Speaker 2: haven't seen anything that would make me think like, oh,

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Speaker 2: they're gonna totally shut that down, and that's not really

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Speaker 2: how they operate anyways.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, i'd have to agree with you.

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Speaker 1: I don't see it as like definitely happening or that

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Speaker 1: they're going to be aggressive in moving him. But their

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Speaker 1: infield is set, and where's Mattshaw's value. It's in the infield.

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Speaker 1: That's where his value is. Yes, it's nice that he's versatile.

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Speaker 1: It's nice that he's picking up the outfield corner outfield

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Speaker 1: spots and helping the team out and starting to look

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Speaker 1: decent there, you know, like after since he's left Wrigley,

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Speaker 1: he hasn't had any moments where it's like what is

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Speaker 1: he doing out there? So I think you just can't

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Speaker 1: rule it out for that reason, he may be so

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Speaker 1: valuable to another team, especially if he keeps hitting. Then

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Speaker 1: you have a real decision on your hands. Uh, is

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Speaker 1: someone going to offer you, like it a controllable pitcher,

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Speaker 1: like to get Matt Shaw? Like can you can you

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Speaker 1: get like a guy with multiple years left on their deal?

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Speaker 1: And that's impactful? I think it's a it's something they

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Speaker 1: have to they may have to consider, assuming their position

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Speaker 1: player group is healthy, especially now when this is further

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Speaker 1: down the line. But like someone like Pedro Ramirez, Jefferson Rojas,

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Speaker 1: like these are quality infielders that are developing and having

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Speaker 1: good starts to the season. I'm not saying that they're

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Speaker 1: slammed dunks, just saying that they're they're highly thought of

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Speaker 1: within the organization and they've started the season. Well, okay,

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Speaker 1: you have you have some minor league in field depth.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if that if it leads to anything,

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Speaker 1: but I think it's a fair question, and I think

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Speaker 1: it's something that you know, will we'll we'll have to.

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Speaker 3: Pay attention on the radar.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all right, Thank you so much for all

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Speaker 1: the questions we asked. We asked pretty late on those

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Speaker 1: that you guys delivered, which I really appreciate.

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Speaker 3: You guys are awesome about.

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Speaker 1: I mean, obviously guys, you guys you know I want

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Speaker 1: to know what's going on with the Cubs, and we

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Speaker 1: appreciate you reaching out and giving us content for our show.

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Speaker 1: Make sure to rate review, subscribe to Northside Territory. Make

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Speaker 1: sure to subscribe to the Athletic where Patrick and I

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Speaker 1: are on top of all things Cubs. This team is

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Speaker 1: back to five hundred, headed back to Wrigley for three

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Speaker 1: against the Pirates before they head out on another quick

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Speaker 1: road trip for three in Philly. Kind Of a weird,

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Speaker 1: weird schedule there, but they have a chance to get

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Speaker 1: get out a roll here.

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Speaker 3: The offense finally looking good.

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Speaker 1: So when we come back next week, maybe we'll be

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Speaker 1: talking about an offense that's rolling, or we'll see. We'll

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Speaker 1: see what's going on with this team, but at least

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Speaker 1: a little bit better taste in everyone's mouth after after

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Speaker 1: the final two in Tampa. Thanks for your questions everyone,

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Speaker 1: We'll talk to you next week.

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Speaker 3: Take care,