1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,640 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to Okay f Daily with 2 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody, recording from the Long Island Bunker. Folks, 3 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: there are some days where rage collapse into grief, and 4 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:26,800 Speaker 1: grief collapses into despair and the conversation that I have 5 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: to offer you all next with our friend Jonathan Metzel. 6 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:40,239 Speaker 1: It's one of those days where I am struggling and 7 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: realize that I am having an emotional reaction in real time, 8 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: which you will see to the conversation that Jonathan and 9 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: I have with regard to the latest mass shooting in 10 00:00:55,040 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: Colorado Springs at Club Q. I try really hard to 11 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: provide all of you with information, community conversations that make 12 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: you feel less alone, less crazy, and something that gives 13 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,479 Speaker 1: you a yeah, okay, this is what we can do 14 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: or yes, I feel this way to moment as you're 15 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 1: listening to the show today, I'm going to be honest, 16 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 1: I am really just sad. I am really sad and 17 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: tired of covering mass shootings, particularly ones that are aimed 18 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: at communities that I'm a part of. I wish that 19 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 1: this country was better. I wish that our politicians, all 20 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: of them, gave a shit about saving actual lives, not 21 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: just pretending. I wish that people who stoke violence, like 22 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: Lauren Bobert and Donald Trump and Marjorie Taylor Green and 23 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 1: Paul Gossar and the entirety of the Republican Party were 24 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: held accountable for the crimes that they are committing, not 25 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: only against their constituents, but against this country. I wish 26 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: that for every single tweet and statement that went out 27 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: with pictures of politicians posing with weapons of mass destruction, 28 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:42,519 Speaker 1: that they were fined, that they were tried as accomplices 29 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: or accessories after the fact. I wish that there were 30 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 1: penalties for their criminal speech and behavior that gives cover 31 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: and to people whose only desire is to cause pain 32 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 1: and devastation and fear. There is no safer space or 33 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 1: haven for queer people than queer spaces. For many people, 34 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:31,679 Speaker 1: particularly that are living inside of red states and redder counties, 35 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: that one queer bar center gathering place is the only 36 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 1: time when they can feel safe inside of their own skin, 37 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: in their own bodies, because whether it's going into a 38 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: grocery store, going into a place of worship, or a 39 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: school as a queer person, and for folks who are 40 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: visibly queer, meaning that there can be no assumption based 41 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: on how people are looking at you. You walk around 42 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: with a target on your back because of people like 43 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:18,479 Speaker 1: Donald Trump, Lauren Bobert, Marjorie Taylor Green, Mike Pence, and 44 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: others that use religion as the shield for their bigotry 45 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: and hate, who want to cape for those who want 46 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 1: the ability to discriminate and to humanize, and then want 47 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: to turn around and offer their thoughts and fucking prayers 48 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 1: as if it does a damn thing or it fucking matters. 49 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: I wish that those people knew what it was like 50 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: to be the only one in a room in space 51 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: and feel in fear of how other people are going 52 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 1: to react to you, because I feel that if everyone 53 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 1: experienced that level of fear, then maybe those that have 54 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: the power to do something about it fucking would But 55 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: what am I? I'm assuming that most human beings have empathy, 56 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:08,919 Speaker 1: and what I realize about the Republican Party is that 57 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 1: they are void of that. When I posted on Twitter, 58 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 1: which by the way, as you all know, has become 59 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: increasingly a sewer, and I don't know how much longer 60 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 1: I will choose to be on the platform. I don't 61 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 1: want to seed ground to the far right, but I 62 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: also don't want to expose myself to a level of 63 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 1: toxicity and verbal abuse in order to prove a point 64 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: and continue to make a vapid egomaniac richer. Nonetheless, when 65 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: I posted about the shooting at Club Q, I had 66 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 1: some asshole decide to comment and say, oh, well, you know, 67 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: I like how you'll only come out on one side 68 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: of gun violence, and I'm just like, the fuck up 69 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: do you think that this is some type of fucking 70 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: conversation like competition. People should feel safe. I don't give 71 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: a fuck who you pray to, who you sleep with, 72 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: how you identify. I don't care. You should be able 73 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: to be in your home, leave your home, leave your community, 74 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: ghost shopping, go get a drink, go to a movie theater, 75 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: go to a synagogue, go to a temple, go to 76 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 1: a mosque. You should be able to feel safe. That 77 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 1: should be the marking of an industrialized society, of a democracy. 78 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: That it isn't just the freedom to wield and take 79 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 1: photos with your fucking cosplay bullshit aar fifteens, but that 80 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: the rest of us should be able to feel safe 81 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 1: in our own skin and the fact that we don't 82 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,239 Speaker 1: the fact that in this society we would rather teach 83 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: children active shooter drills than do anything about actual active shooters. 84 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: The fact that we want to put together policies on 85 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 1: red flag laws that in the last two fucking shootings 86 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: have done dick to prevent them. We're not a civilized country. 87 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: I don't even know what that means when people want 88 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: to talk about civilized or you know, developed. If anything, 89 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: America is fucking developing, it is an underdeveloped society because 90 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: it is not one that is marked with empathy. It 91 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: is not one that is marked with love. It is 92 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: not one that is marked with safety, not even for 93 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: those that are carrying around the ar fifteens and the 94 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: fucking bazookas to go to Starbucks, because that's how fucking 95 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 1: small they are in their real lives that they need 96 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: external validation. We refuse to have real conversations about where 97 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: this shit is coming from. So let's all pretend and 98 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: pause for the thoughts and fucking prayers that don't do shit. 99 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: What I want I want a class action lawsuit from 100 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: the people of these United States that are sick of 101 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: the fucking NRA, that are sick of the politicians that 102 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: are bolstered up and get rich off of their ignorance 103 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: to the largest scope and problem because the mouths around 104 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: their table are fed, overfed at that because apparently the 105 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 1: only way that this is going to stop is that 106 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: for those that are creating the policies to consistently be 107 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 1: harmed and live in fear at the same level that 108 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 1: the rest of us live, or to somehow we fucking 109 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: held accountable and one of those motherfuckers to go in 110 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:51,680 Speaker 1: jail because their tweets and their statements that they're putting 111 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: out can be directly linked to the violence that is 112 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: escalating in this country. Because until those people are held responsible, 113 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 1: none of this is going to change. It is just 114 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: going to get worse. And I'm tired of trying to 115 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: appeal to people's emotions when I realize that they are emotionless. 116 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 1: They just don't give a fuck. So I want to 117 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:20,559 Speaker 1: go after the gun manufacturers. I want to go after 118 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,079 Speaker 1: the lobby sets. I want to go after the politicians. 119 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: I want to pull up their social media, their voices, 120 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,319 Speaker 1: and you tell me that they don't matter because he 121 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 1: said the same fucking people that are going into libraries 122 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: and schools to ban books because they believe that those 123 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: books and the acceptance and inclusion of people from marginalized 124 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 1: communities is somehow going to shift people's thinking. Yeah, it will. 125 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: It'll make them more inclusive, it'll make them more empathetic, 126 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: it'll make them more loving. And God forbid we have that, 127 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: because then you won't be able to capitalize on fucking fear. 128 00:09:56,160 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 1: I'm sick to death of this country. I'm sick to 129 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: death of inaction. I'm sick to death of the thoughts 130 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: and prayers. And you will hear in the conversation coming 131 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: up next with our friend doctor Jonathan Metzel, that our 132 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 1: disassociation does not mean that we don't care. It is 133 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 1: the place that we're moving to in order to have 134 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: self preservation, because no one can exist in this cyclical 135 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: state of grief on a regular basis. I don't know 136 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: what else to say today, friends, except to take care 137 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 1: of yourselves, take care of each other as you choose 138 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: to gather with chosen family or blood family and friends, 139 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: recognize that these moments are really fleeting. They are really fleeting, 140 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: and there are too many people that are going to 141 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: have too many empty seats around their table that could 142 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: have been avoided if we gave a ship folks. You 143 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 1: know that whenever I have the opportunity to sit down 144 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:12,319 Speaker 1: with our friend, our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel, 145 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 1: I am always greatly appreciative. And Jonathan, you know, it 146 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 1: seems that every week that we talk, it is on 147 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: the heels of tragedy. I don't know what else to 148 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 1: say about it. Folks were coming and recording this just 149 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: days after the mass shooting at Club Q in Colorado 150 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: that took the lives of five of the patrons at 151 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 1: Club Q and Colorado Springs injuring I think roughly nineteen 152 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:53,679 Speaker 1: that we know of at this point. And Jonathan, you know, 153 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,719 Speaker 1: I just before we get into any of the specifics, 154 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,959 Speaker 1: I just want to get your reactions. You know, I'm assuming, 155 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: like like me, your phone was buzzing the morning following 156 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: the shooting with alerts from different outlets. So what was 157 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 1: you What were your initial reactions? I mean, first of all, 158 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 1: it's impossible to experience this outside the context of the 159 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:25,680 Speaker 1: anti queer, anti trans hate that is, you know, always 160 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: been brewing in our country, but is now reached a 161 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 1: truly fatal level. And so the context is important because 162 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:36,839 Speaker 1: I understand it has flashbacks for a lot of people 163 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: to the Pulse shooting in Colorado, But this is a 164 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:45,839 Speaker 1: much more dangerous time, even though the fatality numbers were 165 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: considerably less than the Pulse shooting. But in the context 166 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: of what is really kind of acceptable hate right now, 167 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: I feel like the implications, the kind of broader implications 168 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:03,959 Speaker 1: of this are are just incredible, right I mean, there 169 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: are a lot of people with guns, There are a 170 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: lot of very unstable people out there, and they're in 171 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: a way being given a kind of carte blanche in 172 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 1: a way. I mean, we don't know anything about the 173 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: story here, and I'm sure it'll be a unique story 174 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: the way it always is, and they'll also be remnants 175 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:27,319 Speaker 1: of other stories of histories of violence and misogyny and 176 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 1: guns and stuff. But the context right now is just breathtaking, 177 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: because even in the Pulse shooting, if you look back 178 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: at what happened, then it wasn't just the outpouring of 179 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 1: support we see, which is what we see now, but 180 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 1: also a kind of mobilization of the system that should 181 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: work to protect people, and particularly people who are most 182 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: at risk by the system. And now this is in 183 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 1: the context of a very unstable political environment that basically 184 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 1: gains and monetizes anti queer, anti trans hat and can 185 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 1: I mean the Colorado springs honestly has been an incredible 186 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: response as far as I can tell, But it's in 187 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: the context of a county that is a so called 188 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: Second Amendment sanctuary zone where you can't enforce any gun 189 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: laws whatsoever, and so all that support is in the 190 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: context of a framework that really literally doesn't enable anybody 191 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: to do anything about it. You know, I have to 192 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: say that while the numbers to your point about the 193 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: pulse shooting that happened in Florida that claimed forty nine lives, 194 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 1: that when we think about it, just in the context 195 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: of numbers, we think to ourselves, well, you know, it 196 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: wasn't as bad. And I was speaking earlier, and the 197 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: person I was speaking to said, the headline came across, 198 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: and I didn't even allow myself to be sad. I 199 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: was just in full on rage and anger because the 200 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 1: very idea that five people being shot isn't as bad 201 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: as forty nine or seventeen or nineteen children or eighteen 202 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: children is just like a grappling that emotionally, spiritually we 203 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: shouldn't have to do right that like that that you know, 204 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: part and parceling out tragedy shouldn't be a part of 205 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 1: our just normal existence in this country, and yet it is. 206 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 1: And so Jonathan, I just want to I want to 207 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: talk about that kind of the gaps that we're having 208 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: in our emotional sentiments as we deal with one mass 209 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: shooting after the next. What I realized as I was 210 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: getting ready to share, you know, social media, my thoughts, 211 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: this only comes six months after the Buffalo shooting. It 212 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: only comes, you know, a handful of months after Uvaldi. 213 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: In between that was a shooting that happened at the 214 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: parade that you know, that picked off people on the 215 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: Fourth of July holiday. Like, it's just the inundation and 216 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: then our inability to actually grieve. Can you just speak 217 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 1: to speak to that, because I think that it's it's important, 218 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: and I think that we also beat ourselves up about 219 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 1: the fact that, like there's just so much grief that 220 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: we're not even really touching that emotion in the way 221 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 1: that we used to. Post traumatic stress disorder is a 222 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: framework that people often use to talk about these kind 223 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 1: of things, and I feel like it's useful and it's 224 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: also not useful. The idea of post traumatic stress disorder 225 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: is that you have a repeated response to a threat 226 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 1: of death or hearing news about about it, or being 227 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: close to it. But the response in PTSD is a 228 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 1: is a hyper vigilance, exaggerated startle response. You're like on edge. 229 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,919 Speaker 1: And really what we're seeing is post traumatic stress dissociation 230 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:18,159 Speaker 1: in a way that people are so numb that in 231 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 1: a way, when it's coming at you so often, it's 232 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 1: like exactly like who's whoever sent you that message said, 233 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 1: you feel less in a way, And so we're having 234 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:31,679 Speaker 1: a kind of dissociation to the horror and trauma of 235 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 1: all of this in a way that is not completely 236 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: linked to what people do in war zones, but it 237 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,719 Speaker 1: is reminiscent of it in a way that in a way, 238 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: if you've felt if you felt this all the time, 239 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:49,120 Speaker 1: you really couldn't function. And so in that sense, it's 240 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 1: not PTSD because the trauma is ongoing and we're associating, 241 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 1: and I think that's part of what's happening. But then 242 00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:03,880 Speaker 1: the other issue is just you know, the initial PTSD 243 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: studies were done in military theaters, right that people who 244 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 1: were flying airplanes in Vietnam, if they flew five hours 245 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 1: of sorties where they were facing anti aircraft fire and 246 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: thought they were going to die. They had a five 247 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 1: percent chance of getting PTSD. They flew fifty hours, they 248 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 1: had a fifty percent chance of getting PTSD, and here 249 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:31,199 Speaker 1: and so basically the symptoms correlated with the amount of 250 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,360 Speaker 1: time you thought your life was at risk and then 251 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 1: you flew back to the base and you could feel safe, 252 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: and then you know that was like there's a beginning 253 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: and end, and here people across America feel safe never 254 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 1: They don't feel safe in a bus coming back from 255 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 1: a field trip with their Virginia football team. They don't 256 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:53,679 Speaker 1: feel safe going to a parade in Chicago. They have 257 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,360 Speaker 1: to look over their shoulder in what should be the 258 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 1: safest space, a queer bar where people are just there 259 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:04,680 Speaker 1: to celebrate and feel camaraderie and feel support across the community. 260 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: So these really safe spaces, I mean, that's of course 261 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: what gives mass shootings their horror and their power, their 262 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: acts of you know, not not just violence, but their 263 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,360 Speaker 1: acts of a particular kind of violence that really rupture 264 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:23,199 Speaker 1: the safety of that kind of the safest spaces are 265 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 1: the ones where you're the most vulnerable. But really that's 266 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:28,680 Speaker 1: the question, where can you feel safe because you never 267 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:33,199 Speaker 1: get to fly home to your base. I mean that 268 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:38,639 Speaker 1: just description and that articulation, like tears just came to 269 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:43,719 Speaker 1: my eyes, Jonathan, because I'm recognizing that that is really true, 270 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 1: that what you're saying with regard to post traumatic stresses, 271 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 1: is this a reaction that doesn't necessarily match the trauma 272 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: in itself and the fact that we are consistently traumatized 273 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:04,359 Speaker 1: and consistently living on edge. That disassociation isn't us not 274 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 1: wanting to care. It's the fact that we can't have 275 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 1: a NonStop grief, right, And so I wondered them. My 276 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:17,200 Speaker 1: question to you is that if if we can't have 277 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:20,640 Speaker 1: NonStop grief and we have to disassociate as a way 278 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:24,680 Speaker 1: of self preservation, which is what it sounds like, then 279 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:29,919 Speaker 1: how do we I don't know, I guess the question 280 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: is how do we move forward with the same type 281 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: of organization and strategy to end gun violence when it 282 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: just gets worse and gets more persistent, Like I, you know, 283 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,439 Speaker 1: I keep seeing all these headlines you and I have 284 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 1: talked about on the show, like you know, children and 285 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: their levels of anxiety and prescriptions that are being given 286 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 1: out and because of these compacted tragedy. We've talked about this, honestly, 287 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 1: and I just don't even know if we are disassociating 288 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 1: to the point of just being able to make it through, 289 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:14,919 Speaker 1: what does that mean about our ability to actually muster 290 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: the strength to stop this. It's interesting if you do 291 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: what I do, right' I study gun policy, and enough 292 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 1: these shootings, people will interview me and say, what about 293 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: red flag laws? What about background checks? And I give 294 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: the answer because I think they're important in there what 295 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 1: we have. But it's so clear that there's no policy 296 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:39,120 Speaker 1: that's gonna stop this from happening right now. I mean, 297 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: we have more guns than people by far. We have 298 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 1: more mass shootings than days in the calendar year by 299 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: a considerable amount, and so it's not like there's one policy. 300 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 1: And in this shooting in particular, shows that because something 301 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,719 Speaker 1: like what's called a red flag law, people aren't enforcing it. 302 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 1: They're not the law doesn't enforce it. People are reluctant 303 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 1: to call authorities on their relatives. And so this is 304 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 1: a particular sign to me that the policy interventions that 305 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: we have, which were made out of compromise trying to 306 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:16,679 Speaker 1: create a middle ground, just don't work, and so the 307 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: issue is why don't they work? Should we just enforce 308 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: those policies? And I guess I just think of the 309 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,719 Speaker 1: places that have faced this kind of trauma, nothing on 310 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 1: our scale, but this kind of trauma Australia, Scotland, etc. Etc. 311 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: And really what those are marked by is not any 312 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 1: particular policy. It's people on all sides coming to the 313 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:42,200 Speaker 1: table to negotiate and find some kind of middle ground 314 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: where there's some compromise. And we just don't have that process. 315 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:50,239 Speaker 1: And so as much as we shout frustration about the 316 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 1: fact that in this case, Colorado has a red flag law, 317 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:59,479 Speaker 1: it wasn't followed for whatever reason, but it's not going 318 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,439 Speaker 1: to be what at least let me just jump in 319 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: for a second, because at least what I've heard right, 320 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 1: And again we're still receiving details and trying to piece 321 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,120 Speaker 1: together the why. But I think you know, the why 322 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: is to me obvious. But um is that in both 323 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:22,879 Speaker 1: the shooting in Virginia with the football team and both 324 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:28,680 Speaker 1: this Colorado spring shooting, there were flags right there was 325 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: In the Virginia at the university, the shooter was flagged 326 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: for having talked about guns and said that they owned 327 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:44,439 Speaker 1: a gun, and but because no violent action had been taken, 328 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: the officers on the university's campus said there was nothing 329 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 1: that we could do. Similarly, in Colorado Springs, it was 330 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: like there was a flag there were potentially a connection 331 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,479 Speaker 1: with bomb that were made, you know, in previous years. 332 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: And it's so it's like, I guess what is the 333 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 1: purpose If red flags are literally to send up a 334 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 1: flare this person is potentially dangerous, but then we're not 335 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:18,360 Speaker 1: actually going to take action until the violence occurs. Then 336 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: what's the point of there being a red flag? You know? 337 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 1: The Biden gun reform efforts are based on many things, 338 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:31,159 Speaker 1: but one is really bolstering red flag laws. I share 339 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: your concern and your critique about them very deeply, right because, 340 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,399 Speaker 1: I mean, let's just be honest. You don't get to 341 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:45,400 Speaker 1: become a mass murderer overnight. There are concerning symptoms in 342 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: everybody who gets to that stage. But the problem is 343 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:52,439 Speaker 1: in part a numbers game, right that for everybody who 344 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 1: shows those symptoms and then becomes a mass shooter, you'll 345 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 1: have a million people who have the exact same personality 346 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: profile who never do anything, And so there's no predictive 347 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 1: power for that, and then the other part is a 348 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 1: lot of people have had these same symptoms for years, 349 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: and so it's like, what's the day where they're going 350 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:18,959 Speaker 1: to snap. It's psychiatrists and judges and police don't have 351 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,399 Speaker 1: any idea, and so restricting somebody's guns for fourteen days 352 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 1: or even six months, which never happens, is not going 353 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 1: to change that. A lot of the issues here are 354 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: long standing characterological personality issues, and so in that regard, 355 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 1: it's just not effective in a way. And then you 356 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 1: on top of that, put that places like El Paso 357 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 1: County where this shooting happened, they basically have a stance 358 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: against enforcing gun laws that's on the books, and so 359 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 1: it's just the numbers make this impossible. And even if 360 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 1: you look at how many red flag laws have been 361 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: you know, it's like twelve over eight, you know, over 362 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,400 Speaker 1: the years in this county because they don't enforce them. 363 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,639 Speaker 1: And so it's just like the minute you start, I mean, 364 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:10,400 Speaker 1: any any one of these factors would have been devastating 365 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: for this case, but when you add them all up, 366 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 1: it's just the system is not going to work to 367 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 1: prevent this kind of violence. And that's kind of where 368 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: we're at right that that's kind of where we're at. 369 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: So we're just gonna live with this like it's I mean, 370 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: like we are. We're just I mean, this is a 371 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 1: part of what it means to live in America. Is 372 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: that any time that you leave your home, or even 373 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: if you're in your home, you know, the probability of 374 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: you being shot to death is pretty fucking high. Look, 375 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 1: I I just I don't I'm at a I honestly, 376 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 1: this doesn't usually happened to me interviewing you. I'm at 377 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: a loss. I just I'm at a loss to figure 378 00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: out like the path forward if I don't know what 379 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, Jonathan, I could answer 380 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,119 Speaker 1: that too, is I mean mass shootings obviously there are 381 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 1: a reflection of our broken political system. Because of functioning 382 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 1: society will come together across the table to say, man, 383 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 1: our citizens are dying, and what can we do? We 384 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: are dying, and what can we do to address this 385 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: so that we can be more safe. A communal framework 386 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 1: where people are saying, Okay, here are my rights, but 387 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 1: here is your need for safety. Let's work it out. 388 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:37,119 Speaker 1: And there are so many other examples of societies that 389 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:41,640 Speaker 1: are not in wartime figuring that out. I don't think 390 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 1: that's where we're at, because maybe we are gearing towards 391 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 1: some more conflict, but in the meantime, our political system 392 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,880 Speaker 1: does not allow for that kind of negotiation. So mass 393 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,959 Speaker 1: shootings are symptoms a red flag law is not going 394 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,200 Speaker 1: to fix the structural problems of our country right now. 395 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 1: And I think that's that's really kind you know, where 396 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 1: we're at. I mean, again, there are so many models 397 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:06,399 Speaker 1: of countries that have gotten to this point and you know, 398 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,119 Speaker 1: taken another turn in a different direction. So it's not 399 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,160 Speaker 1: like there are no models for it, but it's just 400 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: that part of that issue is that. And then I 401 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 1: also just cannot help thinking if the tables are turned right, 402 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:29,359 Speaker 1: I mean, imagine transgender somebody in a drag show took 403 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,399 Speaker 1: an air fifteen and went into a country bar and 404 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 1: killed a lot of people, Like, would we be saying, oh, 405 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 1: this is just America. No. The fact that this is 406 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:45,959 Speaker 1: violent that's being done toward already at risk communities really 407 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: is part of the level of helplessness that we're feeling. 408 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: And I can just say, you know, I mean, I 409 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 1: think there should be no subway crime, but if you 410 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 1: turn the tables. You know, black person pushes someone on 411 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 1: the subway. It's that racial categories are made so clear, right, Um, 412 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: this is minoritized violence against the majority group. But when 413 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: the tables are turned, as they so often are in 414 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: these mass shootings, um it, then we get the helplessness narrative. 415 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: So this plays out around the narratives of America right now. 416 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: But it's like, I agree, right to some extent, But 417 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 1: then I look at Parkland, and I look at Newtown, 418 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 1: and I look at these places where mass shootings have 419 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:38,239 Speaker 1: entered into white suburbia, well off places, and I'm like, 420 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,719 Speaker 1: and if that is not the triggering if it's if, 421 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: if if, if the narrative can persist that well, it's 422 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 1: the crime that happens in the cities, it's it's these 423 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 1: it's these marginalized communities that are the ones that are affected. 424 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 1: So I don't have to care because it's not me. 425 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 1: But that's not the case, Jonathan. It's like the mass 426 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: shootings spread well far outside of what has been designated 427 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 1: as okay for violence to occur in southside of Chicago. 428 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 1: We don't give a fuck about, right, because oh, it's 429 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 1: always there's always a shoot of up happening there. But 430 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 1: this isn't the case anymore and hasn't been for so long. 431 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 1: So my last question for you is that, like, if 432 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 1: white suburban women continue to vote in mass with Republicans, 433 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 1: and their numbers continue to increase with Republicans, and it's 434 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 1: their kids that are going into the new towns and 435 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 1: the parklands like and the UVA campus and all of 436 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: these things, like, what is going to get these people 437 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: to care? Well? As we know, as I know from 438 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 1: my work in Dying of Whiteness, all roads lead back 439 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: to more guns. I mean, people see guns as their protectors. 440 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 1: So after mass shootings we see pretty predictable trends where 441 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 1: people on the liberal side of the divide will support 442 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: more regulation like we're talking about here, and people on 443 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 1: the conservative side will say, well, this shows that you 444 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: need more guns now. It's pretty laughable. I mean, imagine 445 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 1: being in a dance club with the soundproof walls that's 446 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 1: totally dark and strobe lights. Imagine everybody in that club 447 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 1: having a gun when something like this breaks out, you know, 448 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 1: it's it's absurd, it's absurd and so but but again, 449 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 1: there is a divide that is reinforced and reified every 450 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 1: time something like this happens, and so part of the 451 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 1: issue is we just have completely different experiences of this. 452 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 1: But I would say just going back to my point 453 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 1: before and not I mean, I agree there's so many 454 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: mass shootings. Again, there's more than one mass shooting a day, 455 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 1: But can you think of a mass shooting, and I'm 456 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: sure there is, I'm just not thinking of every night 457 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 1: now where somebody from a disadvantaged group kills a lot 458 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 1: of people from the majority group. So I understand Parkland 459 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 1: and Sandy Hook all those things. I mean, those led 460 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 1: to more guns and more gun rights and ideas of 461 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 1: what you can't be safe in your school, But I 462 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 1: would also say again there's you can't really set any 463 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 1: trend really, except to say that there is also a 464 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 1: case of the kind of message of violence toward disadvantaged 465 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 1: groups being held as a kind of logical extension of 466 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: America and violence and gun culture. I guess you know. 467 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 1: My feeling is that no one is held accountable, right, 468 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 1: The gun manufacturers aren't held accountable. The politicians that stoke 469 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 1: violence and say that Democrats are trying to kill us 470 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 1: and call LGBTQ people pedophiles, and groomers, so the violence 471 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: that's taken out against them is justified because you're trying 472 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,719 Speaker 1: to save the children. Like I just like somewhere at 473 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 1: some point, the cyclical nature of this violence has to end. 474 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 1: And yet we've been having this conversation for close to 475 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 1: thirty years since Columbine, and it hasn't ended. It's just 476 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 1: gotten worse. And so I'm like, at this point, I 477 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: don't know how folks that are working like you have 478 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 1: for your career to end gun violence and mass shootings, like, 479 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: how you continue because I just don't red flag laws, 480 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 1: ain't it right? And that's what everybody was pinning their 481 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,760 Speaker 1: hopes and prayers on, is that, Okay, well we'll compromise 482 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 1: on this thing. And the last two shootings over the 483 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: last two weeks have shown us that that's not the case. 484 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 1: So I'm just confused about where we go chaos or 485 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: community really, honestly, to think of Martin Luther King, I 486 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 1: hope that I'm providing framework for by people. At some 487 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,720 Speaker 1: point we'll come to the table, and if not, that 488 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 1: I'm chronicling demand. I mean, it's it's one of those 489 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 1: two things. And defense, what do you ask me? You know? 490 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:10,759 Speaker 1: So yeah, caught chaos our community. I mean, that is 491 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 1: the ultimate question that we need to face, that we 492 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,719 Speaker 1: need to ask, and I don't think enough people are 493 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,880 Speaker 1: asking it. As always, Jonathan, thank you so much for 494 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,799 Speaker 1: taking the time to join us on Woke a F. 495 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 1: I don't know when we'll ever have a conversation that 496 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,880 Speaker 1: makes us feel like we are winning, but today is 497 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,239 Speaker 1: clearly not that day. But I appreciate you continuing to 498 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: show up each and every week to provide contexts and 499 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 1: value to our listeners. Thank you so much. And these 500 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,959 Speaker 1: are the conversations we really should be happening having after 501 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 1: mess shootings, so I'm very grateful in return. Thanks Jonathan. 502 00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,800 Speaker 1: That is it for me today, dear friends on wok 503 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 1: F as always, power to the people and to all 504 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,879 Speaker 1: the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.