1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History class from how 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: I'm to win your chalk reboarding and I'm fared out. 4 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: And if you're even remotely a soccer fan, you probably 5 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:22,639 Speaker 1: took in at least some of the UEFA European Football 6 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 1: Championship earlier this summer. It's a more commonly known to 7 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: a lot of people as the Euro twelve Championship, but 8 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: it's pretty much the world's biggest soccer tournament after the 9 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:34,599 Speaker 1: World Cup. Did you watch some of it? I did 10 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: watch some of it. Well, I did the whole DVR thing, 11 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: which isn't the best way to watch it now with 12 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: Facebook and everything, everybody always reveals the scores. But I 13 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:45,160 Speaker 1: did my best. But if like me, all you did 14 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: was tune in now and again to cheer for your 15 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: favorite team. You may not have heard about a little 16 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: pre tournament controversy involving euro co host the Ukraine and 17 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: a new movie called The Match. So just to give 18 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 1: you some background on the movie. It tells the legendary 19 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: story of a soccer match that took place in nineteen 20 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: forty two and not the occupied Kiev, between a team 21 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: of skilled Ukrainian players and a team of German players, 22 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: and according to the classic version of events that was 23 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:19,119 Speaker 1: generally accepted for a very long time, the Ukrainian team 24 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 1: was warned that essentially it would be in their best 25 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 1: interest to lose the match, but they decided to not 26 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: give in to the threats and just to play good soccer, 27 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 1: which was a move that won them the match, but again, 28 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:37,399 Speaker 1: according to legend, lost them their lives. Some say that 29 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: all eleven players were lined up and shot by German 30 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,679 Speaker 1: troops after the match. Hence this became known as the 31 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: death match or match of Death, depending on what source 32 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: you're looking at. So, the movie The Match was supposed 33 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: to be released in April in the Ukraine, but the 34 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: Ukrainian film officials originally tried to block its release. They 35 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: ended up changing their minds though, but when the film 36 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: finally came out later that month, it was met with 37 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: anchor and protests from a lot of Ukrainians. So we're 38 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: gonna be talking about a little bit more about why 39 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: the film got that reaction later in the podcast. But 40 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,639 Speaker 1: as you might have already guessed from the episodes title, 41 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,799 Speaker 1: our main goal here is going to be to talk 42 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: about the deathmatch itself and all of the myths, all 43 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: of the markiness surrounding it. And because while the legendary 44 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: soccer game we just related to you is a dramatic story, 45 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: it makes for a pretty great story to tell. Honestly, 46 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: most people today except that a story is all it 47 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: really is. It's it's just a legend, at least in part. 48 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:39,919 Speaker 1: I mean, it's generally accepted that a soccer game did 49 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: take place in between Ukrainians and Nazison occupied Kiev, but 50 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 1: the details are still up for debate. So we're going 51 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: to take a look at the story and try to 52 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: separate myth from fact like we sometimes do, and also 53 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: try to understand why this myth came to be in 54 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: the first place, how did it come about? But before 55 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: we get too much into the soccer, you'll need an 56 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: idea of what was going on in World War Two 57 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:07,959 Speaker 1: at the time, at least as much as it relates 58 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:10,399 Speaker 1: to the Ukraine. Yeah, So to give you some background 59 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: on these events, Hitler's troops invaded the Soviet Union on 60 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: June twenty sick and nineteen forty one in Operation Barbarossa, 61 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: and less than three months after that, on September nineteenth, 62 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 1: nineteen forty one, they made their way into the capital 63 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: of the Ukraine, which was Kiev. So that invasion was 64 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 1: followed up almost immediately by mass executions at a ravine 65 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: on the city's outskirts called bobby Are, and between September 66 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: twenty nine and September about thirty three thousand, seven hundred 67 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: and seventy one people were killed at that ravine, including 68 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: almost all of the Jews who lived in Kiev, men, 69 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: women and children, and in the following years who It 70 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 1: wasn't like things ended after that. In the following years, 71 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: thousands of more people were killed there as well. Yeah. Ultimately, 72 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 1: according to an article by James Rearden in the journal 73 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: Soccer and Society, more Ukrainians died in the war than 74 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: any other single nation, which is something that I didn't 75 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: know before. It was something like ten to fifteen million 76 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: people total. And that's largely because, as Reardon points out, 77 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 1: the Nazis viewed people of Slavic descent to be unter 78 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 1: mentioned or subhuman like the Jews. According to Defiance the 79 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: Story of FC Start, which is a short ESPN documentary 80 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: on the death Match, many Ukrainians were taken prisoner right 81 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 1: away and thrown into camps, where some of them soon 82 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 1: died of disease and starvation. But about six months into occupation, 83 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,480 Speaker 1: a lot of these POWs were released and ended up 84 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: living like refugees on the streets of Kiev. They existed 85 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: off of food rations that were at times cut to 86 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 1: two hundred grams of bread per week, and this was 87 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: said to be about the size of about a matchbox, 88 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: so not very much at all, and so people had 89 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: to resort to eating things like dogs, rats, crow's bark, 90 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: and even kal dung. So we're gonna be starting our 91 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: story basically with one of these POWs among those who 92 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:11,039 Speaker 1: were released in return to Kiev. According to an article 93 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: by Johnny Kay Lee in Soccer in Society, where a 94 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: few Ukrainian soccer players who had played for the local team, 95 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: the Dynamo Kiev before the Nazi invasion, and Lee points 96 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,479 Speaker 1: out how soccer was really at its height kind of 97 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: that it gained popularity in the Soviet Union during the 98 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: nineteen thirties, maybe as a way to escape from the 99 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: harsh realities of being ruled by a totalitarian government. And 100 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: Russia had a couple of pretty well known teams, but 101 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: the Dynamo Kiev was considered one of the best of 102 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: these soccer teams in Europe. Yeah, Anti Dugan, the author 103 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: of Dynamo Triumph and Tragedy and Nazi Occupied Kiev said 104 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 1: in that ESPN documentary that we mentioned quote, the way 105 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: that Kiev played was revolutionary. They played tremendously attacking football. 106 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 1: At the time, all the low coals knew who the 107 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: players were, and they would talk about games for days 108 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:08,359 Speaker 1: after their celebrity. Indeed, but of course Nazi occupation changed 109 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 1: all that, and the Dynamo Kiev players who were released 110 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: as POWs had to struggle like everybody else did. However, 111 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: one of them, Nikolaicha Savic, who had been the team's goalkeeper, 112 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: upon his return to the city managed to land a 113 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: job at the Kiev Bakery Number three, which, if you're 114 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: getting rations that our match book sized with the pretty 115 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: great opportunity. So how he got that opportunity had to 116 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: do with his soccer playing past. The Kiev born manager 117 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:38,039 Speaker 1: of the bakery had been a huge Dynamo fan and 118 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: he recognized to Savitch and brought him on, hired him, 119 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: making sure that he had shelter and food and This manager, 120 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: whose uh name some sources list as eosph Cordic, also 121 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:55,040 Speaker 1: had German ancestry, so he had a relatively privileged position 122 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:57,719 Speaker 1: in the city. At this time. He managed to convince 123 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: the Kiev governor and the Reischkomi Star for the Ukraine 124 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:03,039 Speaker 1: that there should be an amateur football tournament in the 125 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: city to raise the morale of the Germans. Of course, 126 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: that was how he presented it, so some organized development 127 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: of soccer teams was allowed to go on. Besides this, 128 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: According to Carol Berkhoff's book Harvest of Despair, Life and 129 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: Death in the Ukraine, under Nazi rule, organized sports were 130 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: pretty much suppressed because the Germans were afraid that sports 131 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: would encourage Ukrainian solidarity. So this was really almost a 132 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: coup that he was able to convince them to stage 133 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: this and go through with it. Yeah, in a way, 134 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:36,679 Speaker 1: the bakery manager encouraged to save it, to put together 135 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: a team and save it. Managed to track down some 136 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 1: of his old teammates and some players from the Locomotive 137 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: Kiev team who were also given jobs at Bakery Number three. 138 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 1: They called their team FC Start, which Lee suggests may 139 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: have been symbolic of a new beginning. So by June 140 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: of ninety two, the soccer tournament that the bakery manager 141 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: was hoping for was finally organized, and it took play 142 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: at the Zenit Stadium in Kiev and reared and describes 143 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: it as a eurostyle competition where FC START played teams 144 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 1: representing the various occupying powers so Hungary, Romania, Italy, Germany 145 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: and nationalist Ukrainians. And from the beginning it was FC 146 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: Start that just dominated the tournament. So, for example, they 147 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: beat Hungry six to two, they beat the Romanian team 148 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: eleven to zero, and they just continued to steamroll everyone, 149 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: just go on undefeated throughout the summer. And that may 150 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 1: not be too surprising when you think of the team's makeup. 151 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 1: So FC START players were, after all, very skilled, professional 152 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 1: level athletes who had been competing at the highest levels 153 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 1: in their sport even before the Nazi invasion. Other teams 154 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:51,839 Speaker 1: might have been made up more of mostly military military folks. 155 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: You know, they weren't professional soccer players. But at this 156 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 1: point the Ukrainian team was also malnourished, they were tired 157 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 1: from working hours, they didn't have proper equipment. They shouldn't 158 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: just think of them as a team of highly conditioned 159 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:10,679 Speaker 1: professionals either FC starts wins, though especially considering the origins 160 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: of the teams, that they were winning again started to 161 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: really boost the morale of locals in Kiev. People would 162 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 1: pay high prices, maybe higher than they can necessarily afford, 163 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: for tickets to come out and see FC Start beat 164 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:26,559 Speaker 1: these teams that represented occupying forces. According to Lee's article, 165 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: the Germans realized that this morale boosting was going on. 166 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: They started to to to sort of come to know 167 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 1: this that they were dealing with a type of resistance here, 168 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 1: that they and their allies were being humiliated basically by 169 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 1: what they considered to be a team of you know, 170 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: sub human Ukrainians. So they decided that it was time 171 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: to do something about it wasn't boosting their mora It 172 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: wasn't boosting their morale at all. So on August six, 173 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: a game was set up between FC Start and a 174 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,959 Speaker 1: recently formed German team called fluck Elf. According to an 175 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: article in The New York Times by Drey Longman and 176 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 1: Andrew larn, the name flock Elf suggested that the German 177 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: team was made up mostly of people who manned anti 178 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 1: aircraft guns around Kiev. Flock Elf had apparently pummeled the 179 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:15,199 Speaker 1: Ukrainian Nationalist team prior to this match, so they felt 180 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: that they were easily going to come in and dominate 181 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: FC Start too. But Start ended up winning five to one. 182 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 1: That was not a problem for Flock Elf. They just 183 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,679 Speaker 1: scheduled a rematch for only three days later. And Lee 184 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: also notes, of course, that the Germans controlled the local newspapers, 185 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: so no reports about that original Ukrainian victory were getting out, 186 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: and they were probably hoping that FC Start would be 187 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 1: so tired. You know, we already mentioned they were malnourished 188 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: and um not in the best physical shape. They would 189 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: just be so tired from that previous match. And um, 190 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: they working, and they didn't get like a three day 191 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: vacation before the rematch exactly. They figured they would be 192 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: really tired from that match during the rematch, and um, 193 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: they were also planning on coming out with a possibly 194 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: reinforced team of their own, so they would be new 195 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: and improved while their opponents would be worn down and tired. 196 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: So the rematch, the one that would become known as 197 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:15,079 Speaker 1: the Match of Death, took place on August nine, two, 198 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: and according to that New York Times story we mentioned, 199 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:20,839 Speaker 1: there was said to be about two thousand spectators and 200 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:24,679 Speaker 1: Zeena Stadium was surrounded by s S officers and police dogs, 201 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: though some say that that actually wasn't the case. Tickets 202 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: to the game where five rubles apiece, which according to 203 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 1: that ESPN documentary, would have been about half a person's 204 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 1: a monthly salary at the time. One of the Start players, 205 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 1: Makar Goncerenko, later said that an s S officer came 206 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: to the FC Start dressing room before the match started, 207 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: told them that he was their referee and then asked 208 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: them to follow the rules and to greet their opponents 209 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: in quote our fashion before the start of the match, 210 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 1: which meant that he wanted them to give the Nazi salute, 211 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: and they agreed to us in the moment. But when 212 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:04,719 Speaker 1: they went out there, instead of shouting Kyle Hitler, they 213 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 1: were said to have yelled feats could Hurrah, which was 214 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 1: a Soviet slogan that means fitness culture hurrah. So, according 215 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,679 Speaker 1: to the account of the game given by Gunturenko in 216 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: a nineteen oral history, it was a really rough match 217 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 1: and all of the calls went to the Germans. Drsavitch, 218 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 1: who was the goalkeeper, was said to be kicked in 219 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: the head and knocked out in the first half, and 220 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: in Gunturenko said that this led FC start to fall behind, 221 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: understandably losing it's it's best player like that. But in 222 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: n he changed his story and he said that rather 223 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 1: they were inspired by Rosavitch's injury and they were actually 224 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: winning at halftime. The latter story would tend to drive 225 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 1: better with the legend, at least as we related it 226 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: in the beginning of this podcast, the one in which 227 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 1: the s S officer slash referee comes into FC star 228 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: Its dressing room at halftime and warns them against winning 229 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: them right. Uh. The author that we mentioned, Dugan, told 230 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 1: The New York Times that he thought that this was 231 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 1: possible that the halftime ultimatum did take place, though in 232 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: Reardon's article he says that the referee was actually a 233 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,959 Speaker 1: Ukrainian nationalist, that's what he his research came up with, 234 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 1: and not a member of the Gestapo, is some believe, 235 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: and that the ultimatum actually never took place. So, as 236 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: you might have guessed by now, pretty much everything about 237 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: how this game went down is up for debate. And 238 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: while we just said it was a rough match and 239 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: the Germans played dirty. Reared in whose research included interviewing 240 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: sons of two Start players and eyewitness and the Ukraine 241 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 1: Sports Museum curator, says that it was tough but a 242 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:48,319 Speaker 1: fair match, and that both sides in fact played roughly, 243 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: not just the German side. And there's some examples of 244 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: that too, aren't there of of pretty bold moves? Say? 245 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: There are in Dugan's book, and eyewitness says that FC 246 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: Start player alexeac Alimenko made a saucy move at the 247 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 1: end to pretty much embarrass the Germans. Further, he dribbled 248 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 1: all the way down to the mouth of the Germans 249 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: goal and then instead of scoring, he kicked the ball 250 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 1: back up field, as if to say, I don't need 251 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 1: that goal. Yeah, exactly. So, regardless of the details, it's 252 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 1: generally accepted that FC Start went on to win the 253 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 1: match five to three. So we know there was a match, 254 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: we know they won to five to three, but then 255 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 1: all these other details. Yeah, we've given you various options 256 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 1: on still though, I mean, what you're probably most interested 257 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: in is the legend of what happened to the players 258 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: after the match, where they really taken out and shot. 259 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 1: That's the myth that we mentioned uh, and it was 260 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: taken pretty much as gospel for about fifty years, just 261 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 1: lined up and shot right after the match. And this 262 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: is obviously untrue since Contrenko lived on to tell the tale. 263 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: He died at age eighty six, But there have been 264 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: other versions of the story that trast quite sharply with 265 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: this has the players shaking hands, posing for a photo together, 266 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: and going home. That's what Reardon's eyewitness, who was sixteen 267 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: years old at the time of the match, told him. 268 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: Interesting though, there is a photo that supposedly shows players 269 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: on both teams standing together and smiling after the game, 270 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: but according to an article in The Guardian by Jonathan Wilson, 271 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: this photo was probably taken at an entirely different game 272 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 1: because the correct mix of people aren't pictured there, and 273 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: the Germans were reported to be wearing a completely different uniform, 274 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: so it's something else entirely another just bizarre aspect of 275 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 1: this another twice. In Gonzarenko's account, he said that the 276 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: players were all apprehensive afterward, but they just showered and 277 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 1: went home. By some accounts, FC START players were arrested 278 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: at the bakery on August tenth, the day after the rematch, 279 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: and Gestapo agents came hunting for them by name, came 280 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: in actually with a Dynamo Kiev poster. I've read and 281 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: matched him up and tried to match him up. But 282 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: by other accounts, the team played one more match on 283 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: August sixteen, which they won eight to zero, and then 284 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 1: they were arrested a couple of days later, on August eighteen. 285 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: There are also alternate reasons though, why they were arrested, though, 286 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: and at least one of these arrests had absolutely nothing 287 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: to do with soccer. So again, according to Reardon's article, 288 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: someone added ground glass to the bread that was coming 289 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: out of Bakery Number three and the bread that was 290 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 1: specifically intended for German officers. And according to the New 291 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: York Times story, the players might have also been suspected 292 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: of having ties to the n k v D, which 293 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: was the Soviet secret police, and at least one player 294 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: was said to have been killed for this reason, So 295 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: it might not have been They might not have gotten 296 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: in trouble because they were such fantastic soccer players, but 297 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: because they had all of these other ties and other 298 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: suspected activities going on. Right, Lee writes that these ten 299 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: players were sent to a labor camp at Surettes, and 300 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 1: about six months after the match, three players were shot 301 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:05,919 Speaker 1: to death, and those were Trasavich Klemenco and Ivan Kuzmenko, 302 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:09,399 Speaker 1: and Lie suggests that these players deaths actually didn't really 303 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: have much to do with the fact that they won 304 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 1: a soccer game, or at least they didn't have everything 305 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: to do with the fact that they won a soccer game. 306 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: He believes that their fates were just the same as 307 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 1: so many other Soviet people who died during this time, 308 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:26,159 Speaker 1: and Gondurenco himself kind of agreed with the statement. He 309 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,879 Speaker 1: said something sort of similar in the interview um. He said, 310 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: a desperate fight for survival started, which ended badly for 311 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,920 Speaker 1: four players. Unfortunately, they did not die because they were 312 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:40,680 Speaker 1: great footballers or great Dynamo players. They died like many 313 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: other Soviet people, because two totalitarian systems were fighting each 314 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: other and they were destined to become victims of that 315 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: grand scale massacre. The death of the Dynamo players is 316 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 1: not so very different from many other deaths. Dugan, however, 317 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:57,439 Speaker 1: told The New York Times that he does believe the 318 00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 1: Start players were killed on purpose, because it seems to 319 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,879 Speaker 1: coincidental that it was three of the best players that 320 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: were shot first. So according to Lee, though at least 321 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: three players, including Concurenco, did manage to escape and to 322 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: hide out in Kiev until the city was liberated by 323 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: the Soviets in November ninety three. But it's not like 324 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 1: things started looking up for the soccer players from there 325 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: on either. After Stalin took control of the Soviet territories again, 326 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: anybody who had had contact with the Nazis during their 327 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: occupation was arrested and questioned as a suspected collaborator. And 328 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 1: because the sc start players had competed in these sports, 329 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: uh you know, a sports event with the occupiers competed 330 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: in games against them, that was considered pretty close contact, 331 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 1: pretty close collaboration. Eventually, though, word about the supposed deathmatch 332 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 1: started to get out and articles were published, and at 333 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:56,400 Speaker 1: first Soviet authorities didn't really want to promote it because 334 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: it wasn't something that had been sponsored by them, But 335 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: eventually they really adopted this story. They spun it to 336 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: their own advantage, so it became something like Soviet propaganda 337 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,120 Speaker 1: in a way. And this is probably why the more 338 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: extreme version of the Match of Death exists today, because 339 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:15,880 Speaker 1: it did serve a purpose at the time, right According 340 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 1: to the New York Times article. This is probably also 341 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: why Gontranco story changed over time, because he was initially 342 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 1: afraid of being seen by the Soviet government as a 343 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:29,120 Speaker 1: Nazi collaborator, but then in later interviews, those that took 344 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 1: place after the fall of the Soviet Union, it was 345 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: a different story. Maybe he felt like he could finally 346 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: tell the truth. Who knows. Incidentally, in the sixties, the 347 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 1: Soviet government actually gave I think posthumously, they gave the 348 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: four who had died medals, and they gave they tried 349 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,159 Speaker 1: to give the living players medals as well, but I 350 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: think one of the players actually refused to take a 351 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 1: medal because he was like, I don't want to be 352 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:58,199 Speaker 1: part of a lie. Wow. But this controversy involving the 353 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 1: new movie The Match that we mentioned and an intro 354 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: to this episode is sort of all wrapped up in 355 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 1: kind of similar attentions to not exactly the same. But 356 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 1: it's a Russian made film, and some Ukrainians feel that 357 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: it depicts Ukrainians as Nazi collaborators who would be better 358 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: off sticking with Russia. So it's still kind of all 359 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 1: about the Ukrainians feeling like the Russians want to keep 360 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: them in their sphere of influence. I guess well, and 361 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 1: we should mention too that after the collapse of the 362 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:28,880 Speaker 1: Soviet Union, other accounts of the deathmatch really started to emerge, 363 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 1: and that's how some of the alternate versions of details 364 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 1: you've heard today came about. You know, that's why this 365 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 1: story seems so sketchy in a way. And like you 366 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,440 Speaker 1: said earlier, all we know, really there was a soccer match, 367 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: they won. What else happened? Yeah, all this other research 368 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 1: started to come out later, but it was difficult in 369 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: the nineties because I mean, Gondarenco was the one who 370 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: lived the longest I think, and he lived until so 371 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,920 Speaker 1: there's really no one to ask anymore who was part 372 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:57,640 Speaker 1: of the game. There may be still eyewitnesses and things 373 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 1: like that, but you know, with the differing stories and 374 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: stuff exactly, we're still left to wonder what the exact 375 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: story is. But many agree that even if the match 376 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 1: wasn't quite as dramatic as the myth that was perpetuated 377 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: for so many years, the FC Start players were still 378 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 1: significant and heroic in a way because they boosted morale 379 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 1: and they gave people hope during a really dark time. 380 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 1: Reardon calls it quote a brief moment of human decency 381 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 1: provided by football in the maelstream of war. That reminds 382 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,639 Speaker 1: me a little bit about some of those quotes surrounding 383 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:37,120 Speaker 1: the First Olympics too, about how sports can be inspiring 384 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:41,880 Speaker 1: and show that competition can be something that's peaceful and organized. Yes, 385 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:46,119 Speaker 1: today there's still a monument at Dynamo Stadium honoring the 386 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:48,920 Speaker 1: four start players who died in the months after the deathmatch, 387 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:54,120 Speaker 1: So what these men did is still remembered and even celebrated, 388 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: regardless of the exact details. So I think you know, 389 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: what you're saying about the Olympics is also a good 390 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:01,360 Speaker 1: tie in It's it's in general. I mean, you can 391 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,679 Speaker 1: be inspired what people with, what people do, and what 392 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 1: they can accomplish in sports, even if it's not necessarily 393 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: an act of heroism, as you might well. It also 394 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 1: shows just how charismatic sports stars can really be and 395 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 1: how much they can grip a country's attention. Even during 396 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: a time when there was clearly so many other things 397 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 1: to be thinking about and worrying about, they could still 398 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:30,119 Speaker 1: have a sports figure that you followed and cared about 399 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 1: and paid half of your monthly salary to go see 400 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 1: And well, I think it all comes back to that 401 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: idea of hope and um, you know how that can 402 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: be an active heroism in itself, just providing that for 403 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,439 Speaker 1: people sometimes no matter what the medium, I guess, but 404 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: a very sad story about also one that's really interesting 405 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:51,920 Speaker 1: and when the you know we may continue to find 406 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: out more about over the years, is maybe more details emerged. 407 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,199 Speaker 1: So if you know of any other I know that 408 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: there are a lot of other side and theories and 409 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: parts to the story that we didn't get a chance 410 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: to cover today, and if you want to share any 411 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,199 Speaker 1: of those with us, please feel free to email us. 412 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,879 Speaker 1: Where a history podcast at Discovery dot com. You can 413 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: also find us on Facebook and on Twitter at Myston History. 414 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 1: And people have been suggesting soccer topics to us for years. 415 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 1: I hope this one was was interesting for you guys. 416 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,680 Speaker 1: But well, I can't believe we haven't done one yet. 417 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: I know I like soccer. You do love soccer so much, 418 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 1: so you don't need to read this article, but maybe 419 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,160 Speaker 1: I should get back to my desk and check it out. 420 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 1: We do have an article called how Soccer works, or 421 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: I could just you know, get some tips from Dablina 422 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: or something. But um, all to the office tomorrow. Okay, okay, 423 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 1: it's a date. Um. You guys who need to freshen 424 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: up your your soccer knowledge a little bit like me, 425 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: you can go check out that article. It's called House 426 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: Soccer Works. You can find it by searching on our 427 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: homepage at www dot house stuff works dot com for 428 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,200 Speaker 1: moral this, and thousands of other topics. Is it how 429 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com? M m m m