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Speaker 1: O La Latino USA listener gomos das, It's Maria and

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Speaker 1: today on our feed, we want to share a recent

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Speaker 1: conversation about Colombia's historic presidential elections. Now, this ran earlier

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Speaker 1: on Latino Rebels Radio, which is another podcast that we

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Speaker 1: produce here at Futro Media. And for this really informative episode,

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Speaker 1: host Julo speaks with Bogota based journalist Cristina Noriega to

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Speaker 1: get the breakdown on the results and on the challenges

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Speaker 1: ahead for Colombia.

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Speaker 2: So here you go enjoy.

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Speaker 3: From n p r x Slatino Rebels Radio.

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Speaker 4: I'm your host, Juliorela, and here we are once again

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Speaker 4: another weekly podcast. We are going to be talking about history,

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Speaker 4: the historic news out of Colombia with the election of

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Speaker 4: Gustavo Petro, it's a new president and vice president Francia

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Speaker 4: Madquez and others. It's the first time the left is

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Speaker 4: one in Colombia. And so I have tons of questions

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Speaker 4: because we've been covering news out of Columbia the last

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Speaker 4: couple of years. And as you know, we do this

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Speaker 4: remotely and we bring in guests from all over the world,

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Speaker 4: and you know, we're alternative independent radio and you know,

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Speaker 4: you might hear some sounds of Bogota, Colombia while we're

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Speaker 4: talking with our guests, But that's cool because we got

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Speaker 4: someone from Bogota, Colombia and she's a fabulous guest. Fabulous

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Speaker 4: guests from Bogota, Colombia.

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Speaker 3: Please introduce yourself.

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Speaker 5: Hi, I'm Christina Noriega. I'm a freelance journalist based in Bogota, Colombia,

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Speaker 5: and I've been covering politics, human rights, general quality here

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Speaker 5: for the past almost six years. Now.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I know I've read your work. I want to

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Speaker 4: talk a little bit about sort of the roots of

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Speaker 4: why we are talking about a Petro victory. But before

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Speaker 4: we do that, let's talk about what has happened since

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Speaker 4: Gustavo Petro has become president of Colombia and why is

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Speaker 4: it so historic in the country's history.

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Speaker 3: So if you break it down for our us audience.

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Speaker 5: Right, the election on Sunday was unprecedented in Colombia. We've

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Speaker 5: never had a president that is from the left. We've

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Speaker 5: always been governed by establishment politicians that have either represented

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Speaker 5: the two top political parties that are Los Luidad is

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Speaker 5: as concerned about is the liberals and the conservatives. For

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Speaker 5: the past almost two hundred years, so it came as

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Speaker 5: a huge surprise that first an outsider politician like ustal

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Speaker 5: Pedro would be elected, second that an ex gorilla would

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Speaker 5: be chosen, and third that he would be a leftist.

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Speaker 5: Like I said, we've never seen this in history. So

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Speaker 5: of course there was a huge part of the population

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Speaker 5: that is in celebrating that never expected something like this

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Speaker 5: to happen, and then the rest of the population that

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Speaker 5: is a bit concerned of what this means for Colombia,

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Speaker 5: just because there's always been a lot of fear mongering

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Speaker 5: that has happened on the side of the right, because

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Speaker 5: they've often associated the left either with gorillas that have

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Speaker 5: been operating within Colombia during the last five decades of

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Speaker 5: armed conflict here, or they've associated them with Venezuela, Ugo

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Speaker 5: Chavez and Cuba and you know Castro. So there are

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Speaker 5: a lot of people that are concerned that this means

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Speaker 5: socialism for Colombia, and essentially logos Petro has been doing

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Speaker 5: since he was elected on Sunday is to reassure a

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Speaker 5: lot of people that he is going to be pursuing

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Speaker 5: a more moderate leadership and really trying to consolidate a

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Speaker 5: coalition in Congress so that he can't push through a

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Speaker 5: lot of this what some people have called radical proposals

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Speaker 5: to fundamentally transform Colombia.

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Speaker 3: Well, there's a couple of things that you mentioned.

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Speaker 4: Obviously, given the countries very I would say center right history.

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Speaker 4: But you know, Betro is not some former gorilla that

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Speaker 4: just showed up. He was, you know, former mayor of Bogota.

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Speaker 4: I mean, he he's done things. He's current senator. He

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Speaker 4: created a bacto historical you know, like he was the

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Speaker 4: lead of that right that's sort of this coalition, and

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Speaker 4: things like free university education, pension reforms, high taxes on

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Speaker 4: nonproductive land, fighting inequality that must have some appeal in

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Speaker 4: the country given the country's history.

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Speaker 3: Or is it really that it can't be that simplistic.

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Speaker 3: I mean, the guy won right.

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Speaker 6: Oftentimes in Colombia people have tried to stigmatize Gustavo Petro

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Speaker 6: and you know, simplify the argument saying, you know, he's

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Speaker 6: only an ex rebel.

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Speaker 5: But the reality is he has thirty years of experience

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Speaker 5: in politics. He has been councilmen in Sipakirau, where he

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Speaker 5: grew up. He has been a mayor in Bodata, Columbia's capital.

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Speaker 5: He's been a senator, a congressman, So definitely he has

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Speaker 5: a very long political trajectory, and that has definitely allowed him,

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Speaker 5: first of all, to create these coalitions with other politicians

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Speaker 5: that are part of the traditional establishment. But I think

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Speaker 5: it's also helped to reassure a lot of people that

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Speaker 5: he can fulfill some of his pledges because he does

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Speaker 5: have experience within government, right.

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Speaker 4: And he was a mayor of a city. I mean,

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Speaker 4: it wasn't like he was mayor of a little town

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Speaker 4: in Colombia. He was a mayor of bull with that, yeah,

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Speaker 4: you know what I mean, It's like it's like being

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Speaker 4: the mayor of New York, right, you know.

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Speaker 3: So talk to me about Francia Macus.

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Speaker 4: You know, this is a very intriguing development given the

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Speaker 4: country's anti blackness and anti indigenous sort of vibe. Vice

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Speaker 4: president of the country. Give me that historical context of

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Speaker 4: her election and what brought her here. You know, she

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Speaker 4: has such an interesting past.

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Speaker 5: Honestly, Francias Marquess's trajectory from little known environmentalists to today

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Speaker 5: vice president elect is incredible in a country like Colombia

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Speaker 5: where there is still racism and classism, and where that

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Speaker 5: has often blocked many people from being able to pursue

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Speaker 5: a career in politics. Francia Marquis started off as an

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Speaker 5: activist in Gauca, which is one of the most dangerous

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Speaker 5: departments in Colombia, especially for people like Francia Marcus who

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Speaker 5: are activists, and particularly for women like her who are

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Speaker 5: environmental activists. She has been helping to block development projects

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Speaker 5: that her community has opposed. She has been able to

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Speaker 5: bring together Afro Colombian women to form groups of resistance.

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Speaker 5: She won a very important environmental award just a few

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Speaker 5: years ago for much of that work, and since then

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Speaker 5: she's been known as a strong feminist. She has an

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Speaker 5: interesting friendship with Angela Davis, which I think says a

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Speaker 5: lot about, you know, Francia Marcus's politics, about how she

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Speaker 5: has looked at feminism from an intersectional approach, talking about racism, classism,

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Speaker 5: and sexism and bringing that to the center of this

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Speaker 5: political debate, which in Colombia is really unprecedented.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and so then what would you attribute her rise

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Speaker 4: given all the obstacles that she would face in a

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Speaker 4: country like Columbia. I mean, you know, I don't have

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Speaker 4: to chronicle the anti blackness of this country or the end,

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Speaker 4: you know, the patriarchy of the country. I mean, it's

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Speaker 4: it's got a history, So what would you attribute it

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Speaker 4: to or just I mean it must be part her

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Speaker 4: and part the country waking up a little bit, or

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Speaker 4: what's your best guess.

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Speaker 5: I think it's mostly that her past has been rooted

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Speaker 5: in activism. She's been known as a black rights activist,

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Speaker 5: as an environmentalist, and so she definitely had all these

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Speaker 5: credentials before pursuing a career in politics as first a

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Speaker 5: presidential candidate last year and now the vice presidential candidate

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Speaker 5: for PETRO. I think because of that, she was definitely

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Speaker 5: seen as a sort of outsider candidate who couldn't be

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Speaker 5: easily influenced by establishment politics, who wouldn't fall into the

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Speaker 5: same ordeal of corruption that has influenced so many politicians,

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Speaker 5: that she could really remain true to her roots. And

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Speaker 5: I think a lot of people on the ground who

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Speaker 5: have been afflicted by the armed conflict, who today are

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Speaker 5: working in the informal economy and are living under poverty,

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Speaker 5: really resonated with her rhetoric that really spoke to the

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Speaker 5: poor and to the quote unquote nobody's of Colombia.

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Speaker 4: Again, I do want to get into the mobilization, the

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Speaker 4: grassroots and also state violence against you know, individuals like

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Speaker 4: Dylan Cruz and Anderson Arborea and all.

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Speaker 3: The sort of the lead up to this election.

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Speaker 4: But before we do that, there was sort of this

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Speaker 4: and maybe I was wrong, but maybe it's because I'm

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Speaker 4: kind of in the diaspora with Colombians and most of

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Speaker 4: the Colombians that I know are not from the left,

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Speaker 4: that it was a done deal that as long as

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Speaker 4: you got the right in the center together, that the

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Speaker 4: two you know, the two candidates, that the candidate the

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Speaker 4: finished third and the candidate the finish second, if they

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Speaker 4: just joined forces, leftism would be defeated in Colombia. That

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Speaker 4: just seemed too simplistic. Given what's gone on the last

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Speaker 4: couple of years in the country, how do you begin

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Speaker 4: to connect it. I know you've talked about the grassroots mobilization.

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Speaker 4: You know, we've covered the national strike, We've covered Dylan

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Speaker 4: Cruz's death, We've covered Anderson, all those things that have

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Speaker 4: been happening. I've been noticing more of an awakening in

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Speaker 4: the country the last couple of years. Can you help

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Speaker 4: us put the pieces together here.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think they are three essential components here that

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Speaker 5: can help explain how the left rose to power. And

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Speaker 5: I think it first starts with the peace deal, because

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Speaker 5: in twenty sixteen, Colombia signs a peace deal with the

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Speaker 5: Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia the FARC, which was the

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Speaker 5: largest gorilla group in Colombia at the time, and they

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Speaker 5: had been fighting a war that lasted fifty two years,

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Speaker 5: and for that time, the war had been the top

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Speaker 5: priority for the government. There hadn't been space to talk

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Speaker 5: about other issues such as poverty, such as an equality, education, employment,

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Speaker 5: and obviously these were issues that were affecting a grand

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Speaker 5: majority of Colombians, there just wasn't that opportunity to talk

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Speaker 5: about it. In the wake of the peace deal, we

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Speaker 5: see that in twenty nineteen, Colombians begin to take to

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Speaker 5: the streets to protest in equality. Colombia is one of

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Speaker 5: the most unequal countries in Latin America and in the world,

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Speaker 5: and we saw Colombians protesting a lot of this inequality. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 5: for the protesters, the pandemic started and that just worsened

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Speaker 5: all of the social issues that they had been protesting

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Speaker 5: the year before, so in twenty twenty, we see how

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Speaker 5: almost a majority of Colombians are plunged into poverty, how

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Speaker 5: unemployment increases, how many people are forced into the informal economy,

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Speaker 5: and a lot of people are forced out of higher

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Speaker 5: education because of increasing poverty and unemployment. So we have

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Speaker 5: a lot of people feeling like there's not really any

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Speaker 5: hope or a sense of future left for them. We

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Speaker 5: see a lot of Colombians that feel like there are

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Speaker 5: not really any more options available to them. So in

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Speaker 5: twenty nineteen, they were acts of police violence that were

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Speaker 5: committed again protesters. In one of those cases, Dylan Cruz,

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Speaker 5: who was a teenage protester, he is killed by the

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Speaker 5: Columbia's riot police. And that's when you start to see

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Speaker 5: a lot of this anti government sentiment, especially because a

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Speaker 5: lot of protesters feel like the government doesn't respect their

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Speaker 5: demands but also is willing to repress them with brutal

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Speaker 5: police violence in order to silence them. In twenty twenty,

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Speaker 5: during the pandemic, you see again protests that lasted about

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Speaker 5: two days in Bowata, Columbia's capital, and then there were

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Speaker 5: thirteen protesters who were killed. Then we have the twenty

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Speaker 5: twenty one protests that start on twenty eighth of April,

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Speaker 5: that lasts on and off for almost three months, and

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Speaker 5: that's when you see Colombia the Ivan Duke government the

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Speaker 5: most brutal repression against protesters. It depends on reports, but

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Speaker 5: some groups say that between forty and eighty protesters were

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Speaker 5: killed during those months. And the mixture of all of

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Speaker 5: this of you know, people being able to talk about

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Speaker 5: social issues and then going to the streets, and on

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Speaker 5: top of that, you know, not being stigmatized as gorilla

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Speaker 5: sympathizers for going to the streets, which had happened previously

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Speaker 5: during the armed conflict. That added to a lot of

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Speaker 5: this police repression, really fomented much of this anti government,

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Speaker 5: anti Duque sentiment that we saw expressed during the elections

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Speaker 5: on Sunday, And you know, for people who had been following,

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Speaker 5: you know, what has been happening these past few years,

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Speaker 5: it kind of seemed like this was sort of what

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Speaker 5: would inevitably happen during these elections. Of course, people were

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Speaker 5: still surprised that the the left would still win exactly,

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Speaker 5: especially because in the past so much had happened with

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Speaker 5: assassinations of leftist leaders, of stigmatization, a lot of different

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Speaker 5: strategies that had been used to defeat the left, but

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Speaker 5: they ultimately didn't win during these elections, right.

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Speaker 4: And then I mentioned Anderson Arborela is another one who

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Speaker 4: was a black Colombian, a young man who was killed

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Speaker 4: because for violating curfew allegedly. And I do wonder if

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Speaker 4: you know this issue of this awakening of coming to

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Speaker 4: terms with race in Colombia and you know, anti indigenous

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Speaker 4: sentiments is starting to percolate. Have you been seeing that?

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Speaker 4: You know, when you mentioned financial Madca saying you know, feminism, intersectionality,

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Speaker 4: there has been sort of a movement as well to

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Speaker 4: sort of reclaim blackness and indigeneity too, right, that has

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Speaker 4: played part into them.

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Speaker 5: I think that has definitely happened within the feminist movement

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Speaker 5: and the last years, just because we have seen more

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Speaker 5: indigenous and Afro Colombian women take leadership roles and bring

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Speaker 5: this to the center of the conversation, just as Francia

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Speaker 5: Marqus has done with her run as a presidential candidate

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Speaker 5: and later vice presidential candidate. But definitely also assassinations police

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Speaker 5: violence against black youth like the case of Anderson Abolea,

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Speaker 5: has also helped to create consciousness because rais in Colombia

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Speaker 5: has often been left as a secondary issue because of

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Speaker 5: the armed conflict. The struggle of classes has been considered

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Speaker 5: more of like the central issue within Colombian politics, and

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Speaker 5: we didn't really see a lot of people talking about

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Speaker 5: race or talking about gender. So it's really incredible when

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Speaker 5: you see Francilla Marcus talking about these issues with other

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Speaker 5: presidential candidates at a debate broadcast among all the top

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Speaker 5: channels in Colombia, and you really have started to see

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Speaker 5: a lot of people beginning to talk about these issues,

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Speaker 5: especially with Francia Marcus bringing them up. Even with her

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Speaker 5: now elected as vice president, you're still seeing a lot

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Speaker 5: of tension sometimes in interviews between Francia A. Marcus and

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Speaker 5: the media because the media journalists still have sometimes a

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Speaker 5: very they lack very much like a racially progressive point

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Speaker 5: of view on some of these issues, so they still

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Speaker 5: continue to ask her questions that she has pointed out

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Speaker 5: are either racist or classes. And I think that's something

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Speaker 5: important because we never really see these issues play out

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Speaker 5: in television, and this is something that is happening in

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Speaker 5: real time on TV screens across Colombia.

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Speaker 3: So what are the challenges for them.

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Speaker 4: I mean, obviously, you know she wants to dismantle the patriarchy.

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Speaker 4: Gustavo Petro wants to make Columbia more equal country.

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Speaker 3: How big of an obstacle do they have?

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Speaker 5: In your opinion, I think the challenge is huge for

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Speaker 5: several reasons. First of all, because Gustavo Petro proposes an

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Speaker 5: incredible shift within Colombian society, a radical transformation of Colombia's economy,

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Speaker 5: and the reality is he has four years to do

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Speaker 5: that because in Colombia, you cannot be re elected as president.

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Speaker 5: That's the first challenge that he faces. Secondly, it's so

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Speaker 5: early to see how Congress is going to be reconfigurated.

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Speaker 5: Right now, Wussal Petro does not have the majority in Congress.

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Speaker 5: He's still trying to convince certain congressmen and women to

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Speaker 5: join his coalition. We're going to see how that ends

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Speaker 5: up on July twentieth, when the next session starts, and

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Speaker 5: at that moment, each political party will have to decide

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Speaker 5: whether they Yes, we'll have to decide whether they're in favor.

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Speaker 3: They'll better sense yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 5: But in the meantime, it's still a question, a huge

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Speaker 5: question mark, whether he'll have a majority coalition within Congress,

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Speaker 5: which could be a huge obstacle to him pushing through legislation.

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Speaker 5: We've already seen certain senators say that they're going to

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Speaker 5: create a wall in Congress to block any of his legislation.

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Speaker 5: And the reality also is that in order for gusal

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Speaker 5: Better to fund many of his ambitious social programs, he'll

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Speaker 5: have to push through tax reform. And we've already seen

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Speaker 5: how unpopular taxiform tends to be in Colombia with the

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Speaker 5: protest last year, So he'll have to be very smart

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Speaker 5: about the ways he decides to pursue tax reform, and

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Speaker 5: he'll have to find a majority coalition in Congress to

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Speaker 5: push that through.

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Speaker 4: Okay, so, I mean you've your explanations have been brilliant.

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Speaker 4: Thank you for breaking it down, and you know, in

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Speaker 4: the last you know so briefly, you have an amazing

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Speaker 4: sense of what's going on. And I'm really I'm really

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Speaker 4: glad we had you on the show to explain all this.

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Speaker 4: So thank you Christina for being on Latino Rebels Radio

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Speaker 4: with us.

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Speaker 5: Thank you so much, Julia for having me on.

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Speaker 3: All Right, there you go.

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Speaker 4: That's a breakdown of what happened, and you can see

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Speaker 4: not only how we have gotten here, the history of

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Speaker 4: it all, how historic it is, this major accomplishment. Francia

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Speaker 4: Madquez is a force. Gustavo Petro, however, he gets painted,

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Speaker 4: like Christina says, like he's been around.

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Speaker 3: He's also been mayor of.

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Speaker 4: Bogota like that is not an easy job. So it'll

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Speaker 4: be interesting to see where this goes. With Colombia. It

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Speaker 4: definitely feels like, you know, new dawn in Colombia, but

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Speaker 4: with that comes reactionary pressures. So we're gonna continue to

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Speaker 4: report on it because it's such an important country, but

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Speaker 4: also because the diaspora out here. You know, I got

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Speaker 4: my I got my Columbiano's in Colombiana's asking about what's

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Speaker 4: happening in the country.

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Speaker 3: So thanks to Oscar Fernandez for producing.

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Speaker 4: As always, follow him at the Latino Media Collective, Follow

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Speaker 4: me Julito seventy seven on Twitter, Latino Rebels on Twitter,

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Speaker 4: just Google us where everywhere Latino Rebels dot com, and

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Speaker 4: like we always do, we always close out with La

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Speaker 4: ble and Benasavietas Ja Latino Rebels Radio.

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Speaker 3: We at of here.

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Speaker 7: That's not not welling in contact listen here, no no

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Speaker 7: existing what the Minasca.

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Speaker 8: Does then I been America. No playing in my house

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Speaker 8: wearing my support. That's all this gay day and no

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Speaker 8: thing that's I say again, no man, let's get me sad.

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Speaker 8: I love this count to film. No I said that

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Speaker 8: last may As. Then I think no American not playing in

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Speaker 8: my house weding ma.

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Speaker 3: S been American, so like.

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Speaker 7: Sonna know about that. Not any gym that will put

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Speaker 7: some sign soy.

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Speaker 8: Like, don lass there American?

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Speaker 3: I know where them are as.

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Speaker 7: Do wear them mask Lola sails your secretize the results

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Speaker 7: if you got in my spas, what you know?

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Speaker 8: That's age and I spoke, but not bar them.

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Speaker 7: I don't buy them. Mas sag no me no idea

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Speaker 7: suga no like you think.

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Speaker 5: So no the.

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Speaker 8: Whest sign sign.

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Speaker 7: Last.

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Speaker 4: The opinions expressed by the guests and contributors in this

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Speaker 4: podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the

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Speaker 4: views of Futuro Media or it's employe Blas