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Speaker 1: Diversion audio. A note this episode contains mature content and

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Speaker 1: descriptions of violence that may be disturbing for some listeners.

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Speaker 1: Please take care and listening. It's early winter at a

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Speaker 1: campsite in central Colorado. The first snow of the season

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Speaker 1: is falling, and a thirteen year old boy named Talon

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Speaker 1: is curled in his sleeping bag trying to keep warm.

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Speaker 1: The nights have been getting colder. It's so cold now

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Speaker 1: that Talent has a hard time sleeping. He's wearing his

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Speaker 1: warmest clothes sweatpants, a long sleeved t shirt, and a

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Speaker 1: hoodie with the draw strings tied tied around his face.

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Speaker 1: But it doesn't matter. The sleeping bag and the blue

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Speaker 1: nylon tent are no match for the mountain air. Talan

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Speaker 1: is an indoor kid, and so is his mom, so

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Speaker 1: he was surprised when she said she would take Talan

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Speaker 1: and his aunt Christine on an extended camping trip. Talan

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Speaker 1: thought maybe she meant for a long weekend, but now

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Speaker 1: it was October and they'd been there since August. At first,

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Speaker 1: it felt like an adventure. The three of them went

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Speaker 1: to Walmart, loaded up on gear and snacks, and found

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Speaker 1: a secluded site a few miles from the popular trails.

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Speaker 1: They brought seed packets, books on foraging and agriculture, and

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Speaker 1: word puzzles. As the weeks went on, though things got harder.

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Speaker 1: The weather wasn't the only problem. They were running out

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Speaker 1: of food. Talan could feel his body shrinking. His hip

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Speaker 1: bones jutted out, and they brew when he slept on

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Speaker 1: his side. None of the pants he brought fit him anymore.

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Speaker 1: He missed his friends, his grandma, his cat. He thought

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Speaker 1: about his old apartment and his favorite Mexican restaurant. He

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Speaker 1: was so used to being hungry he almost couldn't remember

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Speaker 1: what it felt like to be full. But he knew

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Speaker 1: going back was out of the question. This was the

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Speaker 1: safest place for them, now, away from the people who

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Speaker 1: didn't understand. No one would see Talon, his mother or

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Speaker 1: his aunt until five months later in the spring, when

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Speaker 1: the snow thawed and hikers were once again exploring the trails.

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Speaker 1: By that time, their bodies were so unrecognizable that it

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Speaker 1: took law enforcement months to identify them. Welcome to the

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Speaker 1: greatest true crime stories ever told. I'm Mary Kay McBrayer,

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Speaker 1: author of the forthcoming true crime book Madam Queen, The

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Speaker 1: Life and crimes of Harlem's underground racketeer Stephanie Sinclair. Today's episode,

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Speaker 1: we're calling the Women who Went Off Grid. It's the

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Speaker 1: story of a mother's misdirected love, the line between self

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Speaker 1: determination and mental illness, and the way conspiracy theories can

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Speaker 1: compel us to make very dangerous decisions, even in the

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Speaker 1: name of safety. We'll get into all of that right

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Speaker 1: after this quick break. Listeners, y'all know I'm an anxious person,

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Speaker 1: so much so that even I was surprised at the

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Speaker 1: new heights to which my anxiety soared after becoming a mother.

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Speaker 1: I've definitely heard mothers say before that nothing matters more

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Speaker 1: to them than their child's safety. But when I heard

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Speaker 1: it before, it always sounded like a weird flex like

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Speaker 1: I love my child the most, and to be fair,

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Speaker 1: that probably is how some mothers meant it. But I

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Speaker 1: really can't overstate the urgent biological imperative. I was a

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Speaker 1: compulsive hand washer before this, but when someone came straight

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Speaker 1: off a plane and tried to hold my pre vaccinated

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Speaker 1: newborn before washing their hands, I'm not really sure how

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Speaker 1: to explain the visceral rage that pumped my blood pressure

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Speaker 1: through the roof like one of those Carnival strong man games.

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Speaker 1: I can tell you that when she had her first

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Speaker 1: cold over Christmas, I punished all of the grandparents by

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Speaker 1: making them watch me suck the snot out of her

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Speaker 1: nose with that torture device they call the nose frieda.

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Speaker 1: It's an extreme reaction, but at the very least I

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Speaker 1: can say that I see dangers now that didn't feel

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Speaker 1: as pressing before. Getting a cold is not the end

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Speaker 1: of the world unless it is. Have you ever seen

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Speaker 1: a baby with pneumonia? Having some solid food won't kill

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Speaker 1: her unless she's allergic. I had to explain so many

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Speaker 1: times why she can't have toys in her basinet, and

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Speaker 1: why she can't have a blanket at four weeks old,

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Speaker 1: why she needs to lie on her stomach sometimes even

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Speaker 1: though she doesn't like it. I'm overprotective, sure, mostly because

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Speaker 1: I couldn't live with myself if something happened to her.

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Speaker 1: I like to say all the time, I'd take a

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Speaker 1: bullet for my kid, one bullet, one time, So easy.

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Speaker 1: But would you claw the eyes out of the person

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Speaker 1: who made her bathwater too hot? Would you ring the

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Speaker 1: neck of the auntie who said the twenty four hour

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Speaker 1: fever after the tea dap shot wasn't worth it. Would

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Speaker 1: you die on the Hill of No Screens before she's

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Speaker 1: eighteen months old, even when the Outlander finale is on,

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Speaker 1: because I have, I have died on all those hills,

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Speaker 1: and I would do it again, and I will every

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Speaker 1: second of every day. One bullet, one time is nothing.

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Speaker 1: You just have to stand still. All that to say

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Speaker 1: I love my child the most. I'm just kidding. All

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Speaker 1: that to say there's some kind of biological switch that

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Speaker 1: gets flipped. The details might be different among parents. You

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Speaker 1: let your kids have thirty minutes of TV a day,

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Speaker 1: that's fine, even if it's different from what I want

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Speaker 1: to do. We're all just trying our best, and that

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Speaker 1: looks different on different people. It is pretty easy to

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Speaker 1: get caught up in that defensive feeling if you're not

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Speaker 1: skilled at determining good advice from someone trying to say

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Speaker 1: tell you something. There are, of course, mothers who seem

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Speaker 1: to defy the nature of parenthood as a whole. I'm

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Speaker 1: not talking about small things like whether you heat up

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Speaker 1: their milk, warm their wet wipes, or make sure they

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Speaker 1: don't kick off their socks. Not everything is crucial, I

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Speaker 1: mean in a big way. Women like Dee Dee Blanchard,

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Speaker 1: Andrea Yates, and Casey Anthony come to mind, but maybe

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Speaker 1: you know of others. It's a unique kind of disdain

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Speaker 1: that we feel for them. Culturally. It's offensive in a

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Speaker 1: way that being a bad father isn't, maybe because it

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Speaker 1: so rarely happens, but it does happen. Stories like these

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Speaker 1: are memorable because they're so black and white. These women

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Speaker 1: are villains, their children are the victims. Their offenses are

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Speaker 1: so unimaginable they become infamous. The story I'm going to

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Speaker 1: tell you today is a bit different. As you heard

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Speaker 1: in the intro. It involves a child in danger and

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Speaker 1: a mother whose actions directly led to his death. But

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Speaker 1: in this story the definition of victim and perpetrator isn't

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Speaker 1: so clear. That could be the reason this story hasn't

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Speaker 1: gotten more visibility in the media. The characters don't fit

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Speaker 1: into the usual boxes we see in true crime stories.

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Speaker 1: As you'll hear, this story is nuanced, which I love,

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Speaker 1: but also makes me uncomfortable in a new way now

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Speaker 1: as a parent. The questions it brings up poke at

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Speaker 1: the edges of this genre of true crime. Questions like

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Speaker 1: where is the line between self determination and mental illness?

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Speaker 1: Who is to blame when a conspiracy theory inspires actions

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Speaker 1: that endanger lives? When is it time to step between

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Speaker 1: a mother and her child? And would you dare to

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Speaker 1: risk it? Because honestly, the situation would have to be

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Speaker 1: very dire knowing what I know now. My mother in

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Speaker 1: our story is named Rebecca Vance Becky to her loved ones,

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Speaker 1: and anyone who knew Becky inevitably knew her sister Christine

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Speaker 1: as well. They did almost everything together, lived together, worked

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Speaker 1: at the same microchip factory, made decisions together. Becky was older,

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Speaker 1: but the sisters were less than two years apart. Born

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Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty and eighty two in Colorado Springs. They

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Speaker 1: looked so similar growing up that Matty thought they were twins.

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Speaker 1: Both were petite, reaching only about five feet tall, with long,

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Speaker 1: dark hair and almond skin. Some say their closeness was

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Speaker 1: forged during a chaotic childhood. When the girls were young,

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Speaker 1: their mother left their father abruptly and raised them on

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Speaker 1: her own for seven years. When she remarried, she introduced

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Speaker 1: them to a whole new family. By all accounts, it

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Speaker 1: seemed like this new step family was wonderful for the girls.

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Speaker 1: Their stepfather, Edward, was attentive and devoted to them, and

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Speaker 1: they gained a steps so of named Trevilla, to whom

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Speaker 1: Christine was especially close. Even so, it's not hard to

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Speaker 1: understand how a transition like this would lead to some

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Speaker 1: stress at home and draw the girls closer to each other.

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Speaker 1: But despite their closeness, there were clear differences in the

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Speaker 1: sister's personalities. It was obvious to anyone who saw them

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Speaker 1: that Becky was the dominant one. Call it oldest child syndrome,

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Speaker 1: but Becky was the kind of girl who always seemed

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Speaker 1: to have a plan. She got excellent grades, worked an

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Speaker 1: after school job, and always seemed to have a vision

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Speaker 1: for her life. Becky was also dominant when it came

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Speaker 1: to her relationship with Christine. According to those close to

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Speaker 1: the girls, Becky seemed to take on some of the

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Speaker 1: caregiving during their family's turbulent years. She was fiercely loyal

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Speaker 1: to Christine, and the two remained very close in adulthood.

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Speaker 1: In their early twenties, both took jobs at the same

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Speaker 1: tech manufacturing plant in Colorado Springs. They'd wake up put

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Speaker 1: on their all white smocks shoe covers and hairnuts. Clock

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Speaker 1: their hours at the factory and returned to their childhood home,

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Speaker 1: where they lived with their mother and stepfather. According to

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Speaker 1: her friends, Becky had also always been a recluse. She

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Speaker 1: didn't have many friends and was content to stay home

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Speaker 1: and hang out with her mother while Christine went out

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Speaker 1: for drinks after work. In an article from Outside magazine,

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Speaker 1: Becky's stepsister, Trevilla says that Becky quote always kept to

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Speaker 1: herself and never really liked to be around people. I

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Speaker 1: actually don't think that this is a red flag, not yet.

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Speaker 1: This tendency toward isolation became even more noticeable as Becky

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Speaker 1: got older. When the sister's mother died of cancer in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, Becky took it if specially hard.

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Speaker 1: She regretted not spending more time with her and not

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Speaker 1: giving her a grandchild. It seemed like her mother's death

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Speaker 1: put beckg his life into a different perspective. A year later,

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight, Becky got pregnant. The father's

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Speaker 1: name was Eric Burdon, a handsome guy she met at work.

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Speaker 1: The two were never very serious, and Becky had no

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Speaker 1: problem handling the pregnancy and childcare on her own. She

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Speaker 1: wasn't interested in having a partner. She wanted a child,

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Speaker 1: maybe even a piece of her mother. Back. In two

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Speaker 1: thousand and eight, Becky gave birth to a boy. She

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Speaker 1: named him Talan. He was a sweet, soft kid with

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Speaker 1: kind eyes and dark hair like his mom. Although Becky

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Speaker 1: seemingly boxed Talan's father Eric out of the picture, she

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Speaker 1: did become close with his mother, Marilyn. Talan would end

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Speaker 1: up spending lots of time at his grandma Marilyn's house,

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Speaker 1: and they developed a close bond. Talan loved animals and

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Speaker 1: was very sensitive to the feelings of those around him.

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Speaker 1: As he grew up, he also developed a love for

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Speaker 1: computers and gaming. He would spend hours play playing Super

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Speaker 1: Mario Brothers and Roadblocks with his friends. He'd even include

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Speaker 1: Marilyn in his games. In an article from New York Magazine,

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Speaker 1: Marylyn described the way Talann would put Marylynd's character quote

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Speaker 1: on his back and carry me in the game because

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Speaker 1: he knows the areas that I would not do so well. Eventually,

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Speaker 1: Becky and Talon moved out of Becky's childhood home and

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Speaker 1: into a unit at the Windmill Apartments in Colorado. Springs.

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Speaker 1: From their building, they could see Pike's Peak jutting out

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Speaker 1: like a jewel on the horizon. Christine would end up

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Speaker 1: moving into the same building shortly after. It was an

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Speaker 1: idyllic spot close to the foothills, but Becky and Christine

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Speaker 1: probably didn't appreciate their surroundings as much more than a

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Speaker 1: nice view. The sisters didn't hike or camp, that is

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Speaker 1: until Becky started talking about going off grid in November

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Speaker 1: of twenty nineteen. The Vant's sisters didn't know it yet,

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Speaker 1: but they were about to face two events that would

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Speaker 1: send their lives in a direction no one saw coming.

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Speaker 1: The first was the death of their stepdad, Edward. Even

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Speaker 1: though he wasn't their birth father, Edward had become a

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Speaker 1: stabilizing presence for Becky and Christine. Now both of the

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Speaker 1: sister's parental figures were gone, and their stepsister, Trevilla, could

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Speaker 1: see that those losses were taking a toll, especially on Becky.

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Speaker 1: According to Trevilla, Becky had always kept to herself, but

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Speaker 1: after the deaths of her mom and stepdad, she became

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Speaker 1: even more reclusive. She told Outside magazine quote, when you're

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Speaker 1: by yourself for so many years and don't have many

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Speaker 1: friends or anything. Thoughts can get to you, and the

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Speaker 1: isolation was only going to get worse. The second life

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Speaker 1: altering event facing the Van's sisters was the COVID nineteen pandemic,

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Speaker 1: which was about to rip through the country and upend

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Speaker 1: their routines. If Becky was reclusive before, the pandemic pushed

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Speaker 1: her even further inward. In May of twenty twenty, Tallon

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Speaker 1: received his fifth grade diploma from the seat of his

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Speaker 1: mom's car. A few months later, Becky called Marylyn to

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Speaker 1: tell her she was quitting her job. She didn't give

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Speaker 1: any explanation of what she would do next. Trevla told

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Speaker 1: New York Magazine she became much more secretive what Becky

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Speaker 1: was doing, as her friends and family would later learn,

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Speaker 1: was spending more and more time online. I don't need

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Speaker 1: to remind you how full of fear we all were

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Speaker 1: during the early days of the pandemic. Becky was one

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Speaker 1: of the many Americans who found validation and solace on

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Speaker 1: conspiracy theory forums and prepper YouTube channels. As the world

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Speaker 1: became more and more unpredictable, being prepared felt more and

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Speaker 1: more important. I don't know about y'all, but for me,

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Speaker 1: During those early days, the line between prepared and prepper

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Speaker 1: became really hard to identify, but there was a line.

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Speaker 1: Becky regurgitated stories about Klaus Schwab, the Great Reset, and

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Speaker 1: the global elite to friends and family. An old acquaintance

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Speaker 1: of Becky's shared a text message she sent to him

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Speaker 1: around this time, with a reporter from Outside magazine. It read,

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Speaker 1: I know I probably sound like a conspiracy theorist, but

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Speaker 1: there are insane plots to take away our soul and humanity. Soon,

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Speaker 1: Becky tipped over the edge from reclusive to fearful. The

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Speaker 1: more she read, the more convinced she became that the

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Speaker 1: world outside her door was unsafe, and her isolation and

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Speaker 1: fear extended to Talan as well. By this time, Talan's

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Speaker 1: school had gone remote, so he was staying home and

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Speaker 1: rarely seeing other kids. He played games on his iPad

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Speaker 1: and switched with his online friends, but Becky forbade Talent

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Speaker 1: from using the messaging function. Talan had hit puberty now,

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Speaker 1: and Becky seemed to be having trouble letting go of

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Speaker 1: her little boy. Christine Trevilla and Talan's grandmother, Marilyn all

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Speaker 1: voiced concerns about his isolation and lack of contact with

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Speaker 1: others his age. Trevala explained in New York Magazine that

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Speaker 1: quote Becky wanted to be with him twenty four to seven.

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Speaker 1: She was so loving, so sweet. It was cute, but

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Speaker 1: at the same time it was too much. The women

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Speaker 1: wondered how Talent would grow up to be a mature

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Speaker 1: adult if he wasn't learning social skills. In twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 1: Talan turned twelve. His school opened up again for in

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Speaker 1: person learning, but Becky kept him at home. Home was

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Speaker 1: becoming the only safe place. It wasn't just Tallan that

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Speaker 1: Becky exerted control over. Remember how I said that Becky

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Speaker 1: was a bit of a mother figure for her sister Christine.

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Speaker 1: Now that the sisters were living together at the Windmill apartments,

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Speaker 1: their parent child relationship developed even further. She kept an

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Speaker 1: eye on Christine the way older sisters do, but now

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Speaker 1: that they were adults in their late thirties, it was

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Speaker 1: overbearing and Becky could be a bully. Becky didn't think

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Speaker 1: Christine should drink or smoke. She didn't think Christine should

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Speaker 1: date GUIDs who didn't treat her well, and she wasn't

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Speaker 1: afraid to tell Christine when she thought she could lose

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Speaker 1: a few pounds. One of the most fascinating sources we

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Speaker 1: have for this story is Christine's text messages to her

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Speaker 1: stepsister Trevilla. In one message, Christine wrote, it got a

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Speaker 1: little frustrating in the car earlier she Becky kept telling

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Speaker 1: me no drinking. I simply told her I felt like

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Speaker 1: a rebelling teenager. Becky's influence over Christine extended to her

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Speaker 1: political and conspiratorial beliefs too. Christine started echoing Becky's talking

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Speaker 1: points about the Great Reset and the end of the

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Speaker 1: world as we know it. Yes, this is a thing online.

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Speaker 1: She would text Trevilla about how Trevilla should stop taking

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Speaker 1: medications because the government was putting biosensors inside them. Trevilla

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Speaker 1: could tell Christine was depressed. She said to Christine in

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Speaker 1: a text message. All I ask is please watch how

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Speaker 1: she treats you and don't let her manipulate you. You

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Speaker 1: can live your own life. Christine replied, no, it's cool,

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Speaker 1: but you know that's a different kind of love and all.

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Speaker 1: That's when the talk about going off grid started. It

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Speaker 1: was Becky's idea if living in modern society meant ex

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Speaker 1: at the mercy of a corrupt government and a malicious Illuminati.

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Speaker 1: The safest thing for the health of her family would

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Speaker 1: be to get out. How do you escape their control?

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Speaker 1: You go where they can't reach you. You remove yourself

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Speaker 1: from everything tying you to the ones in power, money, tech, medication, infrastructure,

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Speaker 1: and address. You skim down to the essentials. You go

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Speaker 1: back to what's natural. You go back to the land.

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Speaker 1: But just because it's natural doesn't mean it's safe, especially

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Speaker 1: in a place like the Colorado Rockies. Christine wasn't convinced

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Speaker 1: at first. She was worried about her nephew and didn't

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Speaker 1: trust Becky's ability to take care of them both, But

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Speaker 1: she also didn't want to be left behind. Becky was

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Speaker 1: her closest family member, her roommate, her protector, her world,

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Speaker 1: and eventually Christine came around. Leaving turned out to be simple.

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Speaker 1: In summer of twenty twenty two, Christine quit her job

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Speaker 1: and told her coworkers she was moving. She wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: bringing her cell phone, so she asked a friend from

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Speaker 1: work to send her a photo of himself to remember

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Speaker 1: him by. Trevilla grew worried about her stepsisters. She knew

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Speaker 1: about the off grade plan and didn't approve. No one did.

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Speaker 1: But what can you really do to stop someone you

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Speaker 1: love from doing anything? They were determined. In July, Becky's

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Speaker 1: communication with friends and family grew distant. She dropped off

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Speaker 1: the urn of her mother's ashes at Trevilla's house and

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Speaker 1: gave her cat oreo to one of Trevilla's neighbors. According

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Speaker 1: to New York Magazine, Becky sent the following text message

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Speaker 1: to an acquaint as they prepared to leave town. They

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Speaker 1: really want to merge man with machine and I refuse

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Speaker 1: to let them do that to me or my son.

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Speaker 1: I don't know when all of this will happen, but

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Speaker 1: I think it's important for people to get out while

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Speaker 1: they still can. To me, these actions giving away possessions

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Speaker 1: and saying your goodbyes sound like the actions of a

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Speaker 1: suicidal person. On August first, twenty twenty two, Becky and

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Speaker 1: Talon stopped by Marilyn's house. Becky handed her a box

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Speaker 1: containing three of Talon's old T shirts, a few school photos,

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Speaker 1: a stuffed animal, and a flower pot with a footprint

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Speaker 1: that he'd made for Mother's Day. Becky told Marilyn they

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Speaker 1: were moving to West Virginia. Where her birth father lived.

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Speaker 1: Marilyn was confused. Becky had never mentioned her dad before.

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Speaker 1: Marilyn offered to let Talan stay with her, but Becky

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Speaker 1: shook her head. We have to move to be safe,

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Speaker 1: Becky said, what about their stuff? Would they be in touch?

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Speaker 1: Would Talan have his iPad? Becky explained that where they

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Speaker 1: were going there wouldn't be good internet. As Becky and

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00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 1: Tallon prepared to leave, Marylyn turned to Tallan for a

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Speaker 1: hug goodbye. As Marilyn leaned down, Becky whispered in her ear,

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Speaker 1: he doesn't know anything. Marilyn felt concerned, confused, and helpless.

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Speaker 1: This whole thing was so mysterious, But what could she do?

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Speaker 1: How long would it be until she saw her grandson again.

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Speaker 1: From where they lived in Colorado Springs, Becky, Christine and

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Speaker 1: Tallann drove a hundred and seventy miles about three and

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Speaker 1: a half hours west to a campground near a mountain

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Speaker 1: called Gunnison. It was a beautiful drive, weaving around Pike's

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Speaker 1: Peak and into the rocky mountains. The campground they chose

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Speaker 1: was called Gold Creek, and it was at just under

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Speaker 1: ten thousand feet in elevation. Visitors to Gold Creek campground

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00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 1: tended to be summer hikers and backpackers. It was open

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Speaker 1: from May to September, but once the weather turned cold

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00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,160
Speaker 1: and snow covered the ground, the only folks passing through

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00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:18,679
Speaker 1: were hunters. Snow accumulated in October, and cell service was

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Speaker 1: non existent. It's likely the Vance family stayed for a

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Speaker 1: few days at one of the well trodden camp sites

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Speaker 1: with a picnic table and a fire pit, but they

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Speaker 1: soon went searching for a more secluded area where they

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Speaker 1: could set up a permanent hidden camp. They found their

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Speaker 1: perfect spot two hundred yards east across a creek, through

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Speaker 1: a patch of thick vegetation in a clearing protected by

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Speaker 1: tall spruce trees. Here, tallon would be safe. Here, there

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Speaker 1: would be no bio sensors or microchips. Here. They could

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Speaker 1: live in peace. In those first few weeks probably were peaceful.

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Speaker 1: Articles about this case describe it as a gentle haven,

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Speaker 1: clean mountain air. The sound of a trickling creek behind you,

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00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 1: the sun on your face, the warm grasp beneath you,

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00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 1: the government, Claus Schwab, skeptical family members. It all feels

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Speaker 1: very far away. Back home in Colorado Springs, Marilyn was

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Speaker 1: growing worried, She left voicemails, not knowing that Becky and

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Speaker 1: Christine had gotten rid of their phones. She didn't think

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Speaker 1: to file a missing person's report or called child protective services.

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Speaker 1: Becky had always been a very dedicated present mother. If

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Speaker 1: Becky wanted space, that was her right. Who was Marilyn

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Speaker 1: to question her parenting. The mountain home the Vant's sisters

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00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:54,120
Speaker 1: created for themselves was later described by investigators as an

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Speaker 1: eighty dollar wal Mart tent. Underneath it was a tarp

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Speaker 1: to keep them off the cold ground, but no ground pads.

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Speaker 1: Anyone who's done cold weather camping knows that ground pads

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00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 1: are a necessity if you want to get any kind

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00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 1: of sleep. Instead, there was a blue quilt laid out

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00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 1: under their sleeping bags. The sleeping bags themselves were warm,

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00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 1: but not designed for winter weather. The first snow of

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00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 1: the year came in late October. By November sixteenth, the

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00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 1: low Tempts were hovering around zero degrees fahrenheit. To filter

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00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 1: their water, they had life straws, a product designed for

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00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 1: emergency use and back up filtration on light hikes. They

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00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 1: aren't designed to withstand freezing temperatures and not intended for

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00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:46,360
Speaker 1: long term camping for food, they brought multiple seed packets

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00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 1: to grow things like kiale, herbs, carrots, and peppers. While

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00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 1: those plants can grow in such a climate, they would

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00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,399
Speaker 1: require diligent care and something like a greenhouse to protect

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00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:03,640
Speaker 1: them from the yellows. It seems they relied on prepared

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00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 1: food instead, judging by the trash found at their campsite,

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00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 1: which included ramen, noodle packets, canned soup, vienna, sausages, candy bars,

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00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: and fruit juice. In October, the trio drove into Gunnison,

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00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: forty five minutes away from camp, where they called Becky

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00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 1: and Christine's birth father, Donald. They asked him to wire

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00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:30,360
Speaker 1: them five hundred dollars, which he did right away. It's

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00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 1: likely they spent the money at Walmart on a small

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00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: campfire stove, which would burn sticks and leaves and generate

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00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 1: lots of heat. They also bought more food, batteries, and

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00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: toilet paper. Then they returned to their shelter. It was

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00:27:46,840 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 1: the group's last known contact with anyone. In late November,

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00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 1: the US Forest Service found Becky's abandoned car on the

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00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: road leading to Gold Creek campground. After attempting to call

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00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 1: the phone numbers associated with the vehicle, and finding them disconnected,

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00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 1: the car was towed. It's unclear whether Becky ever knew Maryland.

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00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 1: Talan's grandmother continued calling Becky's phone too. She never got through,

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00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 1: but she kept calling anyway until December fifteenth, when she

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00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,120
Speaker 1: heard a message that it was no longer in service.

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00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: She continued to believe that one day Tallan and Becky

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00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 1: would show up again in her driveway after their stay

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00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: in West Virginia. Finally, in July of twenty twenty three,

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00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 1: nearly a year after Becky, Christine, and Tallan had left town,

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00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: Maryland received a call about their whereabouts. An adventurous hiker

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00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 1: had come upon what he called a mine mummy laying

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00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: outside a tent at a site near Gold Creek Campground.

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00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 1: Investigators arrived at an ugly scene in unsettlingly beautiful surroundings. First,

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00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 1: they noticed the piles of trash and dried feces. An

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00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: awful smell enveloped the camp. The mummy, the hiker described,

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00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 1: lay near a tree a few yards from the tent.

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00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: The skin was leathery and part of one arm was missing.

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00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: Investigators couldn't determine the sex of the body. It was

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00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 1: too decomposed. They looked inside the tent. The weird thing

424
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 1: was both doors were zipped up. When they peeled them open,

425
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 1: they clearly saw another body in what looked like a

426
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: pile of blankets next to it. As they attempted to

427
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: access the body, they realized that it wasn't blankets, but

428
00:29:55,920 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: a third body curled up inside a sleeping bag. This

429
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 1: was a situation they had never encountered before. Three bodies,

430
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:10,479
Speaker 1: one outside the tent. They doubted foul play, but couldn't

431
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: imagine what had happened at first. The conclusion they came

432
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: to was that the person outside had died first. Perhaps

433
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 1: the other two had carried the body outside until they

434
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 1: could bury it or handle it in some way. It

435
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 1: was the middle of winter, after all. Then they returned

436
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: to their tent and likely died soon after. Inside the tent,

437
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 1: investigators also found some helpful clothes, Christine Vance's driver's license,

438
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: and journals from Becky and Tallinn. That's when they were

439
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: able to put a story together. It was later determined

440
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 1: that the first body, the one outside the tent, was Talents.

441
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 1: His remains weighed just forty pounds, and multiple organs were missing.

442
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: Taken by the mountains many scavengers, it's likely that Becky

443
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 1: died next. By the end, her ribs were showing and

444
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: her ankles were bony. Christine probably died last, curled in

445
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 1: her sleeping bag alone. Hypothermia which develops when a body

446
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: loses heat faster than it can replenish. It can look

447
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 1: like shivering and clumsiness at first. Real problems happen once

448
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 1: the brain gets too cold, speech gets slurred, muscles stiffened,

449
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: and hallucinations can begin. Some people feel and urge to

450
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: take off their clothes. Blood pressure drops and the lungs

451
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 1: fill with fluid. Eventually the heart stops beating. Starvation can

452
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 1: have a similar effect on the body. Energy drops so

453
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 1: low that the body is forced to slow down, delirium

454
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 1: sets in decision making is impaired. Giardia found in poorly

455
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 1: filtered water, causes diarrhea to the point of severe dehydration,

456
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 1: as well as exhaustion and death if not treated. Any

457
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 1: one of these afflictions could have caused the death of

458
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 1: the members of the Vance family, but it's postulated by

459
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 1: law enforcement that they suffered from all three. Regardless of

460
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: the official cause of death. Their camp site and their

461
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: remains are enough to tell us that the group suffered immensely.

462
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: This case, if we want to call it, that, leaves

463
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: a flurry of questions trailing behind it. As far as

464
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 1: law enforcement was concerned, one of the biggest questions was who,

465
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 1: if anyone, was a victim? Was this a homicide? Child

466
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: neglect abuse? Looking at the case in retrospect, at the bodies,

467
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: at the evidence of starvation, at the poor wilderness preparation,

468
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 1: it's easy to conclude that Tallon was an unwilling victim.

469
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 1: He was a child dependent on his mother for care,

470
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: and the decision to go off grid was outside his control.

471
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: So was the decision to stay off grid when things

472
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 1: got dire. In that sense, his death was a direct

473
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 1: result of his mother's parenting choices. But the tricky part

474
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: here is that, by all accounts, Becky was an attentive mother.

475
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 1: Her mother in law and sisters say this explicitly in interviews.

476
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 1: She wanted the best for her child. In fact, she

477
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: was so committed to his safety that she was willing

478
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 1: to abandon everything she knew to keep him out of

479
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 1: harm's way, or at least what she considered to be

480
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 1: harm's way, which points to the other baffling element of

481
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 1: this case, the imminent danger that Becky saw in the

482
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 1: world around her. According to the sources she was consulting online,

483
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: the end of the world was coming and fast systems

484
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,880
Speaker 1: of power couldn't be trusted. The safest option was to

485
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: leave all of that behind and return to the original

486
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:17,879
Speaker 1: safe space the Earth. Reality shows like Alone and Naked

487
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 1: and Afraid are hugely popular in the US, and they

488
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:26,360
Speaker 1: present wilderness survival as more or less doable for the everyman.

489
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 1: Participants suffer, sure, but they make their way. They remind

490
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 1: us of a bygone way of living, the primitive existence

491
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,360
Speaker 1: that's always available to us if we choose it. But

492
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 1: what they don't show is the months and years of preparation,

493
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 1: the hard earned wisdom and skill that is required to

494
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 1: make that life work, or the teams of people supporting

495
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 1: the participants in big ways and small. What those end

496
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: of the world as we know it YouTube channels don't

497
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 1: consider is how much we rely on one another to survive,

498
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 1: even when we go off grid ask any off gridder.

499
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 1: Being truly self sufficient is a fantasy. We need each other,

500
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 1: which is perhaps the most tragic reality of this story

501
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,759
Speaker 1: that Becky in her fear of others, separated herself from

502
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 1: the only people who could truly ever save her. I

503
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 1: like to shout out the excellent sources that I relied

504
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: on for this episode. The first is an Outside magazine

505
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 1: article called Please, I Will give Anything for You to

506
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 1: come Back, written by celebrated journalist Ted Connover. It's a

507
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 1: fascinating retelling of the incidents with insights from Conover's considerable

508
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 1: reporting in off grading communities in Colorado and elsewhere in

509
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 1: the US. The other is a piece from The New

510
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 1: York magazine called The Woman Who Walked Away by Elizabeth

511
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 1: wheel It's a touching look at the impact of Talon's

512
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 1: death on his extended family, in the way stories of

513
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 1: leaving the world behind are interpreted differently depending on who

514
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 1: is doing the leaving. I highly recommend both of these articles.

515
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 1: For more information about this case and others we cover

516
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:42,320
Speaker 1: on the show, visit diversion Audio dot com. The Greatest

517
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:45,760
Speaker 1: True Crime Stories Ever Told is a production of Diversion Audio.

518
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 1: I'm Mary Kay McBrayer and I hosted this episode. This

519
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 1: episode was written by Grace Heerman. Our show is produced

520
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 1: by Leo Culp, edited by Antonio Enriquez theme music by

521
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:04,359
Speaker 1: Tyler Cash, Executive produced by Scott Waxman. And one more

522
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,799
Speaker 1: thing before I go. If you haven't already, I'll love

523
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 1: you forever. If you pre order my forthcoming true crime book,

524
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 1: Madame Queen, the Life and crimes of Harlem's underground racketeer

525
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: Stephanie Sinclair, there's a link to do it at your

526
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: favorite retailer in our show's notes