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Speaker 1: From my Heart Media. This is Missing in Alaska, the

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Speaker 1: story of two congressmen who vanished in nineteen seventy two

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Speaker 1: and my quest to figure out what happened to them.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host John Wallzac. On October, right before I

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Speaker 1: flew back to Anchorage with Paul Decant, our supervising producer,

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Speaker 1: I placed an important call. Paul and I, along with

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Speaker 1: our captains Mark and Andy, had just visited the exact

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Speaker 1: spot in Poor Duchess where Bob Martinson found part of

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Speaker 1: assessment tale. Sometime around night. We all had follow up

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Speaker 1: questions for Bob. So I put my phone on speaker

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Speaker 1: and hey, Bob, I'm with Andy and Mark and so

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Speaker 1: so Bob. So they had a few questions, and I

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Speaker 1: figured before I left, um they know the area better,

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Speaker 1: that I would let them ask the questions. Is that okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm not looking at the map. I'm I'm driving, So

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Speaker 1: I mean anyway, go ahead, okay, so drive carefully boy? Yeah. Uh,

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Speaker 1: so our our questions. So we had gone into four

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Speaker 1: dutches and uh trying to help figure out a little

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Speaker 1: bit more of this lead of um where to look

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Speaker 1: and and then we also had some specific questions. One

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Speaker 1: of them. I guess we could start with that. Like,

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Speaker 1: so you were saying, do you remember the boat you

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Speaker 1: were saying on Yeah, I ended up owning that. That

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Speaker 1: was my dad's both the ocean wave ocean wave okay,

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Speaker 1: and so how how big is the ocean wave? It

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Speaker 1: was a thirty two footer, like one of those Charlie

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Speaker 1: Moore staying boats. Like, uh, I don't know if you

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Speaker 1: remember that if you were around when the George A

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Speaker 1: and the Shirley Age those kind of votes were around. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I know, I know, I know exactly what you're talking about.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I had the same per minute. I helped

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Speaker 1: build that boat, and uh, it would have been that

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Speaker 1: point or maybe the one out from it that wherever

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Speaker 1: it was fairly clear beach. Yeah, it looks like a

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Speaker 1: really good scene set right the spot that you selected,

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Speaker 1: Like it looked like it's right at the end of

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Speaker 1: a nice scrape like you could. Yeah, yeah, that's um.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember which way we were hooking, but I

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Speaker 1: brought it up in the league, not very far from

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Speaker 1: the beach, and it was the hotel section. And like

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Speaker 1: I told John, it didn't have any growth on it

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Speaker 1: or anything. It looked fairly recent but when I called

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Speaker 1: troopers to report it, they said the numbers came real

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Speaker 1: close to what they were looking for for that crash.

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Speaker 1: So I think I remember putting it on a tender

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Speaker 1: because we were still fishing, you know, And it wasn't

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Speaker 1: like the days when you go back and forth it was.

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Speaker 1: It was when we were fishing all week long. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you could look store it or anything. What I mean,

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Speaker 1: they want to take it up a huge part of

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Speaker 1: the back deck or how big? How big of a

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Speaker 1: chunk did you find? It was the whole upright tail section, um,

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Speaker 1: you know the part that sticks up. It was shredded,

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Speaker 1: like it was sheared off right at the right, at

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Speaker 1: the bottom of the upright and you know, big sharp

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Speaker 1: sharks of metal on it. And it had I don't

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Speaker 1: know if it had all the number or I recall

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Speaker 1: that they said it might have been one number off

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Speaker 1: for something, but they wanted to see it. And I

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Speaker 1: think it was red and white. And I also know

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Speaker 1: that my friend Mike Crawley, he died right near there,

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Speaker 1: crashing his plane into the cliff, but that was later.

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Speaker 1: I believe that he fished with Butch Johnson is um.

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Speaker 1: That might have been when he was fine. He was

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Speaker 1: spotting for him and Butch Johnson, and he was over

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Speaker 1: a big school inside of Constantine and he was losing

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Speaker 1: elevation because he was circling, and then he slammed into

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Speaker 1: a cliff and uh that plane was pretty much destroyed.

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Speaker 1: Not I don't know if it landed on the feature,

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Speaker 1: went in the water, but it wouldn't have been that plane,

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Speaker 1: I don't think. I think it was earlier than that

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Speaker 1: that I found it. So that area that we were

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Speaker 1: was at the right spot. Yeah, that's that's the right spot.

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Speaker 1: So when we had just um, these guys were asking us,

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Speaker 1: you know, who might have been around, might have been

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Speaker 1: in the search, And so we went and talked to

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Speaker 1: Terry Kennedy and he told us, I think of that

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Speaker 1: plane that you were talking about, the spot ter um

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Speaker 1: and uh he he had actually trained with the pilot

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Speaker 1: Don Johnson, had some interesting info was flying that very

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Speaker 1: day and had been contacted about the weather and some

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Speaker 1: other stuff. But UM, yeah, so that so we were

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Speaker 1: we were in the right area. It sounds like, UM, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, I don't have any idea,

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Speaker 1: um exactly what year that was. But the crash happened

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Speaker 1: in seventy two, and it was probably around eighty one

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Speaker 1: somewhere maybe before that. I started saying in seventy three

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Speaker 1: with my dad, and I'm pretty sure I was with

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Speaker 1: my dad at that time, so it was prere I

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Speaker 1: would guess. You don't happen to remember that piece, did

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Speaker 1: it didn't ended up on a tender? And then any

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Speaker 1: chance of remembering the name of that tender, no, no,

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Speaker 1: But it took me a while to even think about,

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Speaker 1: you know, what happened to it. I knew somebody a minute.

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Speaker 1: I thought, well, it would have been a tender because

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Speaker 1: that's that's the only one's going back to town, right,

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Speaker 1: And uh, I don't know who the trooper was around

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Speaker 1: town then. I think it was before Jim Cavin was there.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember a guy named Bill Bagron or bag Roun. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was the police chief. Yeah, Yeah, I knew his daughter, Julie. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's he's since passed away. But I was trying to

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Speaker 1: find names of people who you might have talked to. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think I talked to the trooper's office, because you know,

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Speaker 1: pretty serious when you find a piece of the plane,

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Speaker 1: and they wanted they wanted to see it and we

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Speaker 1: had no way to bring it at that time without

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Speaker 1: you know, giving up our season. So what company did

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Speaker 1: you fish for? Were you fishing for a specific processor? Well, well,

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Speaker 1: we was fished for more pack, but I don't know

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Speaker 1: when more pack turned into coffey or seafoods, but that

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Speaker 1: was that would have been I mean that was well

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Speaker 1: after I got here, it was still more packed, so

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Speaker 1: I mean that would have been in the nineties at

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Speaker 1: some point. But um, well, I was just thinking if

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Speaker 1: some old timers, you know, or fishmonger um could remember

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Speaker 1: something about, oh yeah, I came in on a tender

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Speaker 1: and you know, and something of that nature. It was

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Speaker 1: so long ago that this happened. I can't possibly remember

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Speaker 1: which tender we had. Yeah, well the processor might remember.

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Speaker 1: If there's some old retiree that might remember who was

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Speaker 1: taking fish in that area, maybe, you know, it's kind

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Speaker 1: along side of course. But yeah, my dad um was

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Speaker 1: pretty faithful to whatever company fished for. You know, he

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Speaker 1: was with Parks and Western before it turned into more

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Speaker 1: back and then stayed with them. And you know, New

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Speaker 1: England had tenders out there at that time and they

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Speaker 1: did some code tendering with more fac too, they had

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Speaker 1: a lot of those scows. I know Jim Rockin lives

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Speaker 1: down here by me, and he he ran one of

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Speaker 1: those same tenders. Bob, Bob, how confident are you that

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Speaker 1: you put it on a tender versus just leaving it

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Speaker 1: be and taking the numbers? Oh? No, I didn't. I

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Speaker 1: didn't throw it away. I remember somebody taking it and

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Speaker 1: it would have been a tender, you know. Yeah, do

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Speaker 1: you remember when you you called the numbers, you talked

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Speaker 1: to the troopers and they expressed interest in it being

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Speaker 1: this plane. Do you know if it was just like

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Speaker 1: a casual like, oh, maybe this is related to it,

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Speaker 1: or were they pretty seriously interested that this could actually

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Speaker 1: be accurate numbers? Yeah, they were the ones that brought

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Speaker 1: it up. Apparently, you know, it was on their radar

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Speaker 1: that the plane was missing somewhere in that area. And uh,

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Speaker 1: you know they're the ones that told me about it.

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Speaker 1: I I was shocked when they said that. But do

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Speaker 1: you remember do you remember if that was based on

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Speaker 1: like a general suspicion it might be the plane, or

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Speaker 1: if they told you that after they saw the numbers.

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Speaker 1: I remember them saying something about the number being real

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Speaker 1: close to uh what they were looking for. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: it beats me what year that was. But you said

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Speaker 1: around night, I think so you know, and you said

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Speaker 1: you said you think it was roughly four numbers that

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Speaker 1: were visible. No, I think there were five or six.

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Speaker 1: How many are on a tail? Six six on a tail? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was. It was pretty much the whole tail section.

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Speaker 1: You know, it was shredded at the bottom, like I said,

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Speaker 1: and that's kind of where the number ran. Well, it's

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Speaker 1: it's really fascinating. If they did base that suspicion that

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Speaker 1: it was the missing plane on the characters, and you

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Speaker 1: had four or five of the six characters, I mean,

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Speaker 1: that would almost not definitively, but it would come close

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Speaker 1: to definitively saying that it was from that plane. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm curious. Was it a red and white plane? Do

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Speaker 1: you remember it was white and like burnt orange? So

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Speaker 1: I haven't. I haven't found any photos of it, and

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Speaker 1: I've been asking people. Um, but yeah, so I know

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Speaker 1: it was. It was white and orange orange. I'm shade blind,

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Speaker 1: I'm color blamed, so orangepted me. Yeah. Well, um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I was. I was really fascinated when you

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Speaker 1: email me in and then I you know. We we

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Speaker 1: made it over to Cordova. We met Andy and Mark

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Speaker 1: and I had no idea that they knew you. So

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Speaker 1: it's it's been, uh, it's been an interesting experience. We

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Speaker 1: went out into Port Duchess and um, we want to

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Speaker 1: come back with more equipment. Um. So we had a

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Speaker 1: you know, a limited amount of time and we use

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Speaker 1: the R O V S. But um, but yeah, do

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Speaker 1: you all have any other marketing Andy, do you guys

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Speaker 1: have any other questions? So? Did it seem to be

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Speaker 1: off of that smooth you're talking about, like the scour? No,

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Speaker 1: it made sense from what Bob was saying about, you know,

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Speaker 1: where you do a scrape for a saying that, and

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Speaker 1: then where you don't and where you don't And and

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Speaker 1: we surveyed the area where you'd scrape, and then we

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Speaker 1: got into the eel grass where you don't because it's

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Speaker 1: all jaggedy rock and that were you know that I say,

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Speaker 1: I remember, I remember a lot of rocks on the

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Speaker 1: outside of that area. Yeah, And we were looking for

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Speaker 1: a place we could set you know, and you want

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Speaker 1: to be on the furthest out spots so you get

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Speaker 1: more reach, you know. Yeah, And it's a perfect little

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Speaker 1: the perfect little spit that kind of we're all point

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Speaker 1: whatever that comes out there, nice smooth gravel beach. As

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Speaker 1: far as we could see into the water, it looked

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Speaker 1: really nice, and it looked like it was really clean

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Speaker 1: of growth like it's regularly used for saying so um.

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Speaker 1: And then as soon as we got to the rocks,

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Speaker 1: we got into lots of eel grass and kelp and

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Speaker 1: things like that, so we pretty confident we were in

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Speaker 1: the the spot that we were talking about. Yeah, we

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Speaker 1: used to set all the time across the mouth of

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Speaker 1: Constantine at high water, and and we catched so many

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Speaker 1: fish that the net wouldn't even move but just be

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Speaker 1: sitting on bottom and the tender would have to come

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Speaker 1: in scoop them out right there. And you know, occasionally

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Speaker 1: we fished over in that spot where I got the tail,

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Speaker 1: but that wasn't like a regularly fished spot back down. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't even know if they let them go up

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Speaker 1: into the that tight anymore. But up into the mouth

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Speaker 1: of the harbor there were markers at the mouth. That's

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Speaker 1: where we sat. That that was the markers set. Okay,

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Speaker 1: huh yeah, well neat spot and uh before the hat

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Speaker 1: trees that would have been. We had to pick up

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Speaker 1: before we got to that dolf tea looking rock out

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Speaker 1: below it. And you know, it was nice when we

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Speaker 1: caught so many fish that the net didn't move. Yeah, Pin,

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Speaker 1: you're right there. That's cool. Yeah, Well, thank you, Bob.

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Speaker 1: Y'all have any other questions. Okay, I've apreciate it, Bob,

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Speaker 1: thanks for talking to us again. Yeah, okay, well, good luck, Okay,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much. Take care, good winter. But huh so

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Speaker 1: he remembers what the trooper's reaction, so it's they got here.

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Speaker 1: So there's quite a bit of difference there. That what

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Speaker 1: I was thinking when he said the whole tail section.

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Speaker 1: I was thinking of this plane. I probably didn't convey

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Speaker 1: it just the top of the tail. And then looking

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Speaker 1: at the that's not three tens um, you can see that.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes the number up here has got most of the

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Speaker 1: time the number is down there. Yeah, and that's why

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Speaker 1: I've been trying to find a picture of the actual plane.

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Speaker 1: I haven't found any yet. There's a three ten when

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Speaker 1: it's not a tail, and some of it it's kind

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Speaker 1: of like right there. This one, this one I pulled

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Speaker 1: up because if you broke that off and it was

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Speaker 1: ripped off, you might be able to get most of

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Speaker 1: the Numbers's interesting that says seven. I think the three

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Speaker 1: tenths to was fifty nine, so that's close to when

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Speaker 1: the the c would have been produced. And a lot

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Speaker 1: of them have it the number is down here, and

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Speaker 1: then some have it way up way up there, so

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Speaker 1: the number moves around, which is good to know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it would be very fascinating now to find a picture

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Speaker 1: of the plane because if you found a picture of

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Speaker 1: the plane and the number was a little bit further

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Speaker 1: up where it would have been on like the upright piece.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that would at least wouldn't preclude the piece

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Speaker 1: that Bob found from being the right one. Well, that's

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Speaker 1: a really interesting a little more clarification. Um, the piece

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Speaker 1: got here obviously, so it's like who cares, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know it's not I mean, you know what et

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Speaker 1: he or so did he give it to a tender

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Speaker 1: or to another sayer coming back because it broke down

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Speaker 1: or something? Question? I mean, would there be a possibility

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Speaker 1: that someone maybe would have like scrapped it to get money. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you could pick it up by hand, probably would some

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Speaker 1: fine more aluminum in my backyard would somebody have like

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Speaker 1: taken it and like I don't know it just not accidentally,

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Speaker 1: but like just dumped it in their sheds somewhere. Sure,

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Speaker 1: and I mean they probably I can't imagine them not

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Speaker 1: taking it to the troopers. But well, they took it

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Speaker 1: to the troopers. They probably kept it. The troopers kept it,

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Speaker 1: not that they didn't some day throw it away because

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Speaker 1: it was taken up too much room. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what their processes. Um, you know, they take a bunch

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Speaker 1: of photographs of it and maybe they don't need to

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Speaker 1: keep it around. I don't know, but that yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: it's very fascinating now. So he got to town the

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Speaker 1: troopers according to his memories, UH thought it was a

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Speaker 1: possible match at the very least. Um, so hm, five

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Speaker 1: or six numbers? How could you not like go on,

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Speaker 1: well that's it or not, I don't know. You can

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Speaker 1: reach us by phone at one eight three three m

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Speaker 1: I A tips that's one eight three three six four

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Speaker 1: two eight four seven seven again one eight three three

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Speaker 1: six four two eight four seven seven, or you can

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Speaker 1: reach us via email at tips at iHeart media dot com.

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Speaker 1: That's tips, T I P S at iHeart media dot com.

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Speaker 1: Ben Bowen is our executive producer. Paul Decan is our

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Speaker 1: supervising producer, Chris Brown is our assistant producer, Seth Nicholas

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Speaker 1: Johnson is our producer. Sam T. Garden is our research assistant.

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Speaker 1: And I'm your host and executive producer, John wall Sack.

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Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter at at John wallzac

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Speaker 1: j O n w A l c z a K

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Speaker 1: special thanks to our captains Mark and Andy, and to

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Speaker 1: Bob Martinson. Missing in Alaska is a co production of

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Speaker 1: I Heart Media and Greenfork Media