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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We now have information that

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Speaker 1: post COVID cruise lines are back in business, at least

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Speaker 1: some of them. And I've got to tell you, some

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Speaker 1: of the best vacations I've ever been on was taking

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Speaker 1: the children, my twins, John, David and Lucy on Disney cruises.

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Speaker 1: But here's the butt, don't be a victim fight back

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Speaker 1: against America's crime way. When you set sail and you

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Speaker 1: push off from port and had out on your adventure,

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Speaker 1: you need to know how to stay safe on a

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Speaker 1: cruise ship. The very first story I mentioned in Cruise

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Speaker 1: Ship Catastrophes in this knee book proceeds going to National

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Speaker 1: Center Missing Exploited Children. The first name I mentioned is

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Speaker 1: George Smith. And here's why. Take a listen to our

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Speaker 1: friend at CBS. Maureen and George Smith have grieved for

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Speaker 1: a decade ever since their twenty six year old son

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Speaker 1: vanished on his honeymoon cruise in the aganc He left

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Speaker 1: behind a huge bloodstain beneath his balcony and a boatload

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Speaker 1: of intrigue. I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever

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Speaker 1: that my son was murdered on that cruise ship. The

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Speaker 1: story of George Smith's last hours began with a shipboard

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Speaker 1: police interview. Turkish police had gathered the last men known

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Speaker 1: to see George alive. The men claimed that after a

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Speaker 1: night of partying, they had tucked George into bed and

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Speaker 1: left his cabin after we dropped him off. Never saw

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Speaker 1: again and said star a story. I never saw them again.

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Speaker 1: No one has ever been charged in connection with George's death.

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Speaker 1: This past January, the FBI announced it was officially closing

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Speaker 1: the case. They just closed it without an answer. I

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Speaker 1: just I guess what got tired of working on it.

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Speaker 1: Look at this picture. I love this picture. This is

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Speaker 1: a George Smith and his bride. Oops, I lost it.

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Speaker 1: Jennifer Hegel and that is just before he's never seen again.

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Speaker 1: There it is, let me try it again. Just she's beautiful,

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Speaker 1: he's handsome. I have met repeatedly with his mother and

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Speaker 1: sister who have sought justice for all this time, and

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Speaker 1: now we learned the FBI is just dropping the case.

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Speaker 1: What because the cold, so they just drop it. Cruise

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Speaker 1: ships can be wonderful or they can be frightening. With

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Speaker 1: me an all star panel to break it down and

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Speaker 1: put it back together again, joining me Troy Slayton, renowned

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Speaker 1: criminal defense attorney joining us out of LA Doctor Angela

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Speaker 1: Arnold Psychiatrists joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. You

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Speaker 1: can find her at Angela Arnold MD dot com. Cloyd

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Speaker 1: Steiger thirty six years Seattle, pt. Twenty two of those

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Speaker 1: on homicide. Author of Seattle's Forgotten serial Killer, Gary Jane Grant.

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Speaker 1: He's at Cloyd Steiger dot com. Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University,

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Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet, and the new star

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Speaker 1: of a hit series on True Crime Network Poisonous Liaisons

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Speaker 1: Crime Online dot com. Investigative reporter Levi Page. Kathleen and

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Speaker 1: Michael Castenellis mother and father of cruise ship victim Beautiful

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Speaker 1: Young Girl Aki casttion Ellis. But first to special guest

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Speaker 1: Jamie Barnett, the mother of Ashley Barnett, cruise ship victim

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Speaker 1: and the President of International Cruise Victims at International Cruise

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Speaker 1: Victims dot Org, the group founded by George Smith after

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Speaker 1: his son died on a cruise ship. First to you, Jamie,

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Speaker 1: I know you are intimately familiar with the George Smith case.

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Speaker 1: Just twenty six years old, I still remember the name

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Speaker 1: of the ship. It was a brilliance of the Seas, correct.

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Speaker 1: I believe you're right, and it was a really upscale

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Speaker 1: cruise line. I mean, when I'm shopping for cruises with

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Speaker 1: the twins, I go with Disney, of course, because it's

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Speaker 1: all kid related. It's not singles who were drunk and

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Speaker 1: ready to mingle. You get on with mostly with children,

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Speaker 1: So I like that atmosphere for the children. But I

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Speaker 1: looked at other cruise lines and some of them are

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Speaker 1: tens of thousands of dollars more expensive, So you you

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Speaker 1: the Brilliance of the Seas was a top end cruise line.

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Speaker 1: What happened, Jamie, when George goes missing? The only thing

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Speaker 1: left was a trail of blood, you know. And as

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Speaker 1: tragic as George's story is the fact that the the

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Speaker 1: FBI closed the case and they have no closure, no answers,

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Speaker 1: is in itself not unusual for any of us who

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Speaker 1: have lost loved ones on cruises by suspicious activity. Are

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Speaker 1: unknown incidences, that is just a mystery. We're all left

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Speaker 1: like that, every one of us. I almost really happened.

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Speaker 1: I almost did a let me just say, bitter ironic

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Speaker 1: laugh when I heard our friend Robert Schlessinger at CBS

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Speaker 1: say the Turkish police, right, Really, that's like saying the

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Speaker 1: Mexican police, dai, Yeah, nothing's going to happen. They do

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Speaker 1: not care about a dead American on an expensive cruise ship.

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Speaker 1: Don't care the passengers and the George Smith case. Where

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Speaker 1: all let go the events surrounding the night George Smith

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Speaker 1: was murdered. His body has never been found. Can you

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Speaker 1: even imagine that? I mean, doctor Angela Arnold psychiatrists. I

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Speaker 1: know what happened to my fiance, Keith. He was murdered.

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Speaker 1: He left a work site on a construction crew at

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Speaker 1: lunch to go get everybody's soft drinks to go with

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Speaker 1: their lunch at I guess seven to eleven comes back

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Speaker 1: and a guy that was fired off the work site

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Speaker 1: before Keith started working there. It was waiting at the

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Speaker 1: gate and unloaded when he saw the company truck come

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Speaker 1: back in and he shot Keith five times in the head,

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Speaker 1: the neck, the face, and the back. I know what happened,

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Speaker 1: at least I know if that's any conspiration. The Smith

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Speaker 1: family has no idea what happened to their son, George,

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Speaker 1: who's about the age of Keith. When he's murdered on

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Speaker 1: a cruise ship. All they have is a trail of blood,

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Speaker 1: nobody know nothing. How awful is that? And you're hearing

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Speaker 1: Jamie Burnette with International Cruise Victims dot Org say that's

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Speaker 1: what happens. You never get answers right, and I mean

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Speaker 1: imagine Nancy, you never have any closure either. There's always

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Speaker 1: got to be that thought in your head that maybe

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Speaker 1: they're out there somewhere. You never have. It is so

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Speaker 1: unfair to happen to a family because they can never

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Speaker 1: fully recover from that and move on with their brief

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Speaker 1: process the way they should and get and get to

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Speaker 1: the point of acceptance, because there's always that hole that's missing,

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Speaker 1: that unknown of what happened, and where is thought that

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Speaker 1: I might still be out there somewhere with amnesia or

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Speaker 1: god knows what to leavipage Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter.

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Speaker 1: We're starting with George Smith. There's so many cases of

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Speaker 1: people being murdered at sea and the investigation falling through

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Speaker 1: the cracks because think about it, the US authorities are

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Speaker 1: not in control. This is an international waters or on

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Speaker 1: another country's borders, so we're not in charge, so we

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Speaker 1: can't guarantee the safety of the victim or the police

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Speaker 1: investigation crime stories with Nancy Grace, or starting off with

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Speaker 1: the story of George Smith. Today to you Leavi Page,

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Speaker 1: I want to go through what happened to George. But

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Speaker 1: in the new book, don't be a victim fighting back

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Speaker 1: against America's crime way. It's not to scare you, is

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Speaker 1: to arm you with evidence. My very first tip after

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Speaker 1: telling George Smith's story, and this is not casting blame

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Speaker 1: on anybody. You're on a ship in the middle of

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Speaker 1: the sea. What's going to happen? But first, don't get drunk.

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Speaker 1: I've given this tip more than once, but it bears repeating.

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Speaker 1: Think back to missing Groom. This is this honeymoon dream

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Speaker 1: honeymoon George Smith. While we're not exactly sure what happened,

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Speaker 1: we know at least every witness account includes heavy drinking

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Speaker 1: that night, specifically Absinth Jess Goot Morgan once Absinthe Absence

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Speaker 1: is actually a liquor that was originally developed in the

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Speaker 1: Al Saints Lorraine region of a Swiss of Switzerland and France,

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Speaker 1: and was derived from a plant called the wormwood. Some

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Speaker 1: people actually call it being visited by the green fair,

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Speaker 1: and in the past they would put little drops of

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Speaker 1: opiate in it, and what it does is it gives

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Speaker 1: this real euphoric feeling, Nancy, where you're real loose and

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Speaker 1: malleable to things that are around you. And it has

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Speaker 1: previously been a very scary drink in some company some countries,

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Speaker 1: is actually outlawed for people that's try but was not

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Speaker 1: outlawed on Brilliance of the Seas. What happened to Levi

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Speaker 1: Page that night? You got a groom? He's left his wedding.

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Speaker 1: He's left for his dream honeymoon with his wife, Jennifer,

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Speaker 1: beautiful girl. What happened so Nancy. It's July two thousand

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Speaker 1: and five. He is on the Royal Caribbean International Cruise

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Speaker 1: ship MS Brilliance of the Sea. He married his wife,

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Speaker 1: Jennifer Hegel, eleven days earlier. They're both in their mid

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Speaker 1: twenties and they're on the ship. There were stops in Greece, Turkey, Italy,

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Speaker 1: and he vanished. There was blood found in his cabin

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Speaker 1: as well as on the side of the ship that

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Speaker 1: indicated foul play. We know that the night that he vanished,

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Speaker 1: he had a fight with his new wife. She was

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Speaker 1: seen with him at the Starquest Disco and she left him.

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Speaker 1: She passed out on a deck hallway. Security officers found her.

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Speaker 1: They woke her up by pressing ice cubes to her face,

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Speaker 1: and they had to return her to their cabin in

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Speaker 1: a wheelchair. And George was not there. And The New

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Speaker 1: York Post reported in twenty twelve Nancy that the matter

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Speaker 1: had been referred to the Mafia division of the FBI,

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Speaker 1: and some had speculated that this was a robbery gone

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Speaker 1: bad because George had been gambling, and we know that

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Speaker 1: there was an American named Josh Askin. He was looked into,

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Speaker 1: along with two Russian men, Greg Rosenberg and Zach Rosenberg.

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Speaker 1: He'd been dreaming heavily with them gambling. But the Connecticut

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Speaker 1: FBI in twenty fifteen they closed the case and are

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Speaker 1: no longer investing. That is a heartbreak. Jamie Barnett, mother

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Speaker 1: of Ashley Barnett, another cruise ship victim, and president of

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Speaker 1: International Cruise of Victims dot Org. The thing is, it's

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Speaker 1: not the victim's fault. He was on his honeymoon, His

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Speaker 1: wife and he had been drinking at the bar with

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Speaker 1: their new friends on the Brilliance of the Seas. She

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Speaker 1: could not take the absent and she passed it. They

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Speaker 1: had a fuss, which often happens when everybody's drunk. They

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Speaker 1: have a fuss. She stomps away. She passes out from

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Speaker 1: the absinthe, and somebody finds her hours later, still passed out,

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Speaker 1: same clothes she had on at the bar. They have

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Speaker 1: to wheel her back to the room. This significance of

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Speaker 1: this is she is not a suspect at all, period

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Speaker 1: end of story. And she gets back, it's wheeled back.

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Speaker 1: He's already gone, it's over. He's already dead. The next morning,

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Speaker 1: looking for him, she sounds the alarm. Where is he?

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Speaker 1: And when you look out their window, there's a balcony.

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Speaker 1: It's high up for safety reasons. Look down and Jamie Barnett,

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Speaker 1: isn't it true that you see a trail of blood?

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Speaker 1: A lot of blood? Is George Smith's blood? Correct? Correct

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Speaker 1: and age go ahead. No, I just I can't imagine

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Speaker 1: the scene and what she the kind of thoughts that

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Speaker 1: must have been going through her head, and what all

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Speaker 1: she knew and didn't know the reality is that the rail.

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Speaker 1: You'd have to be an Olympic gymnast, you have to

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Speaker 1: be naughtya komanichi get over that rail, or for her

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Speaker 1: to throw him over that rail. So someone strong enough

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Speaker 1: to throw George Smith over that reil, I think pushed

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Speaker 1: him over, and then he hit a series of objects

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Speaker 1: as he went into the sea. That is the thinking

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Speaker 1: body never recovered what happened. Don't get drunk too always true,

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Speaker 1: but bears repeating. Be careful who buys or brings you

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Speaker 1: drink drinks. Never take a drink from a stranger. Always

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Speaker 1: get your drink directly from the bartender and guarded at

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Speaker 1: all times. Never agree to be walked to your room

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Speaker 1: by someone you've just met, especially after you've been drinking.

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Speaker 1: Keep your wits right, your deck and cabin number on

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Speaker 1: a piece of paper and put it in your pocket

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Speaker 1: in case drinks impair your memory. Can I tell you something,

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Speaker 1: Royce Layton, You're never going to believe this, But when

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Speaker 1: I took the twins on a Disney crew, you know, John,

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Speaker 1: David and I got separated. This is what happened. We

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Speaker 1: incidentally met a friend from school who's in the twins class,

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Speaker 1: a little boy, and they all wanted to go to

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Speaker 1: the tween hang out. Troy. Can I tell you how

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Speaker 1: many times I said, they cannot leave until I come

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Speaker 1: get them Okay. It was written in and they have

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Speaker 1: all the safety watches on and everything. You can't come

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Speaker 1: in or come out unless you hit a button and

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Speaker 1: it shows your room and your name and all that.

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Speaker 1: So that was understood. My husband egged me on to

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Speaker 1: let them be free for a couple of hours. So

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Speaker 1: I'm like, okay. Lucy had been there for about an

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Speaker 1: hour and call me on the ship walkie talking that

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Speaker 1: she was ready to come home. I went and got hurt.

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Speaker 1: John David stayed with his little friend, a guy to

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Speaker 1: be ten o'clock. That's when they were supposed to be

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Speaker 1: done Troy. So I called the Tween Zone place and

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Speaker 1: there's no John David there. Well, you know, I nearly

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Speaker 1: did a back flip. I had on my Pj's T

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Speaker 1: shirt and Jim Schwartz barefoot. My husband he said, I'll

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Speaker 1: go because he knew he was in hot water. So

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Speaker 1: he goes, and I couldn't. I couldn't take it. I

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Speaker 1: could just imagine someone luring him into their room and

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Speaker 1: him being thrown over like George Smith. So I grabbed

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Speaker 1: little Lucy and I'm dragging her. We're running up and

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Speaker 1: down this huge Disney ship looking for John David, and

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Speaker 1: I'll never forget the moment when I saw him at

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Speaker 1: a distance. I'll never get over that scare. And this

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Speaker 1: is what had happened, Troy. The other mother came and

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Speaker 1: got her son, and John David said, oh, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: go too, and he walked with them to their room.

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Speaker 1: And it wasn't that far to our room. But I

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Speaker 1: knew none of that, and the employees thought that was

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Speaker 1: his mom. That's how it happened. But Troy, on cruise ships,

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Speaker 1: people let their guard down. They're not cognizant of what's

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Speaker 1: happening around them. They think it's everybody's there just a party,

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Speaker 1: just like them and have a good time. That's not

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Speaker 1: always true, Troy. It's not a booze. Cruise can get

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Speaker 1: very dangerous. You're out there on the high seas, and

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Speaker 1: everybody needs to be villad vigilant and look out for

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Speaker 1: themselves so that way we don't have a tragedy like

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Speaker 1: happened here. Troy, Can you just get real for one moment, please,

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Speaker 1: And you know you're a very successful defense lawyer, but

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Speaker 1: take off your defense hat just for one moment and

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Speaker 1: tell the people the truth. Would you really trust Let's

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Speaker 1: just say the Turkish police or the Mexican police investigating

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Speaker 1: the disappearance of your child. Absolutely no, absolutely no. But

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Speaker 1: I do have more faith in the Federal Bureau of Investigation,

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Speaker 1: the FBI, who was involved here, who heavily investigated the kid.

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Speaker 1: I do have more faith than them. But the problem

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Speaker 1: with their investigation is they had to rely on what

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Speaker 1: the Turkish police did at the scene at the time.

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Speaker 1: They weren't there, So they're basically screwed because the Turkish

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Speaker 1: police mess the whole thing up. Crime stories with Nancy Grace, Guys,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about staying safe while on a cruise. It's

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Speaker 1: the mindset. You're out there with all these people to

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Speaker 1: have fun, a lot of drinking going on. You're a

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Speaker 1: little careless because the same rules in your mind don't

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Speaker 1: apply like when you're home. That is so wrong. And

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Speaker 1: I tell you all about it, and don't be a victim.

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Speaker 1: Fighting back against America's crime wave not to scare you,

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Speaker 1: but to arm you with facts to help you stay

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Speaker 1: safe and protect your children. Take a listen, but first

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Speaker 1: hold on. Let me go to Kathleen and Mike Castnellis,

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Speaker 1: who have been through hell and back. How did your

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Speaker 1: daughter Jackie end up performing on a cruise ship. Well,

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Speaker 1: she was in the New York City waitressing, waitressing on

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Speaker 1: her way to becoming a star, and yep, no, she

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Speaker 1: went to some open call auditions and this was one

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Speaker 1: of them for this high end cruise line, and lo

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Speaker 1: and behold, they called her back. They liked what they

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Speaker 1: saw on her and booked her onto the first of

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Speaker 1: what turned out to be three cruises over the course

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Speaker 1: of the next a year and a half. And that

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Speaker 1: was her really her first big break doing what she

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Speaker 1: loved doing, which was singing and performing. You know, it's interesting.

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Speaker 1: I remember after Dancing with the Stars, I was invited

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Speaker 1: to go in and Dancing with the Stars cruise, which

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Speaker 1: I thought would be awesome fun. But the children had

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Speaker 1: already been away for a year living in LA and

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Speaker 1: it was time for school to start, and so we

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Speaker 1: ki boshed the cruise. But I found out that a

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Speaker 1: lot of stars and stage performers start on cruise ships.

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Speaker 1: You know what I heard just then, Cloyd Steiger. I

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Speaker 1: heard mister Castronellis say, Jackie's dad say it was a

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Speaker 1: high end cruise line. So is George Smith's. So are

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Speaker 1: the ones that we're talking about and I noticed that

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Speaker 1: when people talk about neighborhoods like it was a gated community,

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Speaker 1: crime happens everywhere. Cloyd Steiger. Yeah, you're right about that.

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Speaker 1: The fact that it's a high end cruise ship, maybe

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Speaker 1: a person booking enter these, but you know it's maybe

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Speaker 1: it's also again getting into the complacency that it puts you,

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Speaker 1: so you trust too much when you go on those cruises.

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Speaker 1: If you were on a kind of a cheesier cruise,

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Speaker 1: you might have your your alert up a little higher.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, just because it says high end people, people

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Speaker 1: do things. A matter of fact, they may target critters

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Speaker 1: may target those kind of ships. That's a good point,

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Speaker 1: Colloyd Steiger. Back to Jackie, Back to Jackie's parents, let

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Speaker 1: me ask you, guys, how did you find out your

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Speaker 1: daughter had died? Well, actually got a phone call from

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Speaker 1: Gene and Ryan from Gene and Ryan Productions, which is

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Speaker 1: the talent agency that m did the auditions for Region

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Speaker 1: Cruise Lines. So it was Gene and Ryan and we

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Speaker 1: were out for the evening and she all our home

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Speaker 1: and she tried ourselves that it was noisy in the restaurant,

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Speaker 1: so we didn't pick up. So unfortunately, my oldest son

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Speaker 1: took the phone call and called us and told us

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Speaker 1: to get home. So that was about ten thirty at

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Speaker 1: night that we got that call, and gene Anne Ryan

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Speaker 1: didn't really know any more details except that Jackie was dead.

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Speaker 1: You know, that feeling of helplessness because she was so

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Speaker 1: far away and you were not getting enough information about

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Speaker 1: what happened. I cannot even imagine that now you were

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Speaker 1: given information that she died a young girl of natural

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Speaker 1: causes in her sleep. She's just twenty four years old.

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Speaker 1: The information that you were given about how your daughter died,

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Speaker 1: does it match up what you know? Regent being a

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Speaker 1: high end cruise line, she had to undergo each contract

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Speaker 1: a full physical, I mean so in depth, blood work,

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Speaker 1: cart checks, echo, cardiogram check everything. And there's no signs

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Speaker 1: on the sheets or the bed that she passed there.

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Speaker 1: It was clean. I mean, she's tucked in, which is

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Speaker 1: unlike her and and the cabin access records, which are

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Speaker 1: the only objective evidence they had that they didn't seem

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Speaker 1: to have any video. Do not agree with the storyline

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Speaker 1: that they've put in the record. There's absolutely no agreement there.

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Speaker 1: That sounds very unusual to me. Joseph Scott Morgan, you're

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Speaker 1: the professor of forensics. She was in perfect health, a performer,

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Speaker 1: age twenty four, no history of ailments, nothing at all.

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Speaker 1: And they say she died in her sleep by herself,

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Speaker 1: in her bed. The sheets were perfectly she was tucked

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Speaker 1: in like you would do a child, no sign of struggle, nothing.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense to me, Joe Scott Morgan, No,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't. Young healthy people don't just drop over dead.

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Speaker 1: They just don't, as we used to say, wake up dead.

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Speaker 1: For instance, it's not something that you walk into a

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Speaker 1: room and you think that things are normal. In this

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Speaker 1: instance where you have this vibrant twenty four year old,

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Speaker 1: it's obviously physically capable of traveling around the world on

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Speaker 1: a cruise ship and performing, and then suddenly she's dead,

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Speaker 1: that would bring us to ask questions. First off, was

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Speaker 1: there any trauma to her body? Whatsoever? Was it noted?

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Speaker 1: Did anybody make note of that. I'm not just talking

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Speaker 1: about the bed, I'm physically talking about her body and

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Speaker 1: what was going on with her From a chemical standpoint,

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Speaker 1: what did she have in her system? Was a thorough

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Speaker 1: toxicological examination done? And then probably finally I want to

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Speaker 1: know at autopsy did she have any kind of congenital

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Speaker 1: problems luck with her heart for instance, was there something

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Speaker 1: going on with her heart that Sudley would bring about

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Speaker 1: her death. I want to know if she had been raped,

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Speaker 1: which is what you find out in an autopsy, which

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Speaker 1: of course is going to be very difficult to do

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Speaker 1: on a cruise ship. Back to the Castrinellis family with

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Speaker 1: me Jackie's parents, Kathleen and Michael, either one of you,

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Speaker 1: what more can you tell me about how she was

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Speaker 1: found and the condition of her body. She was found

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Speaker 1: From all appearances, she passed away in her sleep, in

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Speaker 1: her her cabin, by herself, with no signs of any

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Speaker 1: type of struggle or anything like that. Again, that's what

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Speaker 1: we were told in the information we have from the

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Speaker 1: initial crime scene photos and things like that that we

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Speaker 1: do actually have now we've been assured by the people

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Speaker 1: that have looked at that for us, Yeah, it appears

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Speaker 1: that she passed peacefully in her sleep. But the initial reports,

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Speaker 1: and this is what we kind of were hanging on to,

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Speaker 1: and that was that she had hit her head a

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Speaker 1: couple of days before, and that that was the situation

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Speaker 1: that there was some type of head injury that went undetected,

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Speaker 1: and that's what the press had been carrying in the process,

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Speaker 1: and it turned out to be false. So everything they're

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Speaker 1: learning to you, Jamie Barnett, mother of Ashley Barnett, another

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Speaker 1: cruise ship victim, and the president of International Cruise of

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Speaker 1: Victims dot Org, everything they're told turns out to be

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Speaker 1: a lie. I find it very difficult to believe that

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Speaker 1: this young girl just died by natural causes in her sleep,

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Speaker 1: and then they find out everything else in the report

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Speaker 1: is wrong. It's not unusual, though, Nancy, and that's what's

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Speaker 1: so frightening. I'm listening to this story and it just

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Speaker 1: horrifies me on one hand, but it also has an

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Speaker 1: echo of so many cases that I know of where

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Speaker 1: where the information is incomplete, inaccurate, and totally lacking. It

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Speaker 1: is nothing like an investigation on land. If you if

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Speaker 1: this had happened to her on land, it would have

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Speaker 1: been an entirely different scenario. That is what is so frustrating,

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Speaker 1: and the cruise line to do it over and over

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Speaker 1: and over. As a matter of fact, Kathleen castan Ellis,

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Speaker 1: there are discrepancies about who went in and out of

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Speaker 1: your daughter's room. Right, Detective Henryson his first report to

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Speaker 1: the coroner. There when he gave or whoever did to

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Speaker 1: the autopsy doctor, and the way back of the report,

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Speaker 1: I found his initial report that he handed to the

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Speaker 1: autopsy doctor and said she swiped into her room at

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Speaker 1: ten of one, and then there's an unaccounted for swipe

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Speaker 1: at one forty am. Yeah, an unaccounted for swipes. So

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Speaker 1: he called the second one counted for in his first

404
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 1: like unexplained and unexplained swipe going into your daughter's room

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Speaker 1: and they say it was natural. Causes crime stories with

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Guys, please don't be a victim. Fight back

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00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 1: against America's crime wave. I want you to have fun

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00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: on your vacation like we do, but I want you

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00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: to go on your trip with your eyes wide open.

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Speaker 1: Money proceeds from this book going to National Center Missing

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Speaker 1: Exploited Children. It is full of information to protect you,

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Speaker 1: not scare you. Specifically, well, today we're talking about how

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Speaker 1: you could be safe on cruises. Don't make it obvious

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Speaker 1: you're alone that you've gone to your cabin alone. If

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00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: you're traveling alone, make a friend early on. Who would

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00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 1: notice if you're not around? It's the law of the jungle.

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00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 1: Predators try to isolate prey from the herd then attack.

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00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 1: There is safety in numbers. Don't wander around isolated or

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00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: hidden areas of the ship by yourself. I was just

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Speaker 1: on a cruise two years ago with the twins, and

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Speaker 1: when we would go jogging or walking around the full deck,

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Speaker 1: there's was one area on the far end where there

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Speaker 1: would be nobody. It was inside, the rest was outside.

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Speaker 1: But I noticed that Disney had put up cameras and

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Speaker 1: emergency phones all along to a very short area for

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Speaker 1: that reason, because it was isolated. Double your safety measures

427
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 1: when walking at night. Just because you go to your

428
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: cabin doesn't mean you're safe yet. Not all the room

429
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: doors shut completely or automatically. There's so many things to

430
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 1: keep yourself safe that you may never think of joining

431
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: me an all star panel. To Jamie Barnett, mother of Ashley,

432
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 1: a cruise ship victim, guys, take a listen to our

433
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 1: friend David woll at CBS two Ellie. One day after

434
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 1: Jamie Barnett's daughter departed Long Beach for a three day

435
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 1: Mexican cruise with her boyfriend Jeff Ginsberg, she got a

436
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 1: horrifying call from the ship's nurse. I was out of

437
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 1: town when I got the call and it was from

438
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 1: the nurse telling me that Ashley had passed away. Ashley's

439
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 1: boyfriend told authorities that she went to bed at about

440
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 1: two am the first night of the cruise. Twelve hours

441
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: later he found her lifeless in bed. Did you ask

442
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 1: to speak with Jeff, her boyfriend? Yes, I certainly did,

443
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: and what happened? Then? They said that he couldn't write.

444
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 1: Then he was being questioned. After a cruise ship doctor

445
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 1: tried in vain to save Ashley. Her body was left

446
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 1: in Mexico while her boyfriend continued on the cruise. Back

447
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: to Long Beach as the ship dock. Jamie Barnett was

448
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: there hoping for some answers. She was met by a

449
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 1: Carnival official. I'm so and so, I'm from Carnival Cruises.

450
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 1: I'm terribly sorry about your loss. Let me see if

451
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 1: I can find someone to help you. And that was

452
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: the only contact we had in four hours of standing

453
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 1: in the rain. Four hours standing in the rain trying

454
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: to find out information about her. Girl with me is

455
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 1: Ashley's mom, Jamie, Miss Barnett. It's just so hard for

456
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: me to even take in that a ship nurse calls

457
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: you and tells you Ashley's passed away, and very little else,

458
00:31:54,760 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 1: just that she had been found in her cabin and

459
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 1: had passed away, and that was all they knew. And

460
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 1: you know, I can remember most vividly thinking, this is

461
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 1: a cruel joke. This is just a joke. Somebody is

462
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: you know, this is wrong. It just can't be true.

463
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: And that loop of that conversation, that conversation plays over

464
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 1: and over in my head to this day, in such

465
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 1: a loop. You know, it's just something you don't ever

466
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:31,479
Speaker 1: get over. Ever, it took a long time for us

467
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 1: to find out her cause of death, but we never

468
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: found out the manner of her death ever. You know.

469
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: Carnival Cruise Line, in a written statement says, the crisis,

470
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 1: the crisis being your daughter's death was handled quote and

471
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: I'm reading it appropriately. Do you believe that, No, not

472
00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: in the least, Not in the least. It took um

473
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: from from what I have gathered, and I have to

474
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 1: say that it is very hard, very difficult to gather

475
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 1: information when your loved one dies on a cruise ship.

476
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,479
Speaker 1: The cruise ship is not gonna readily divulge it to you.

477
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: And uh, the FBI at that point hadn't been on

478
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: the ship there in Mexico. The Mexican authorities are now involved. Yeah,

479
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: it is. It is so difficult. And what happened with

480
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 1: her is they took her off the ship in Mexico,

481
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: as as as your news clips indicated, and left her there.

482
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 1: I mean, no single person in the group she was

483
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 1: with or from Carnival stayed with her as she was

484
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 1: taken to a morgue in Mexico and had to be

485
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: autopsied there, and then for her to go back into

486
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: the United States, she had to be embalmed. So after that,

487
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: the the coroner's office in LA wouldn't touch her because

488
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 1: you'd already been embalmed. And thank god I had friends

489
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 1: who knew, well, you got to hire a private forensic pathologists.

490
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:15,400
Speaker 1: I didn't even know such thing existed. And a week

491
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: it took a week almost to get her back to

492
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 1: LA and to this private pathologist who had precious little

493
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: to work with at that point. And why is that

494
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:29,800
Speaker 1: to you, J Scott Morgan? Why is it the laws

495
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: are that the body could not come into the US

496
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: prior to being embalmed, and once you embalm the body.

497
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 1: You lose evidence, explain, yeah, you do, well, there's health

498
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 1: concerns relative to customs, Okay, moving a body from one

499
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: country to the next, the body has to be embalmed.

500
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 1: But back to the point right here that it's critical

501
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 1: once the body has already been autopsy down there in Mexico.

502
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 1: First off, you don't know what kind of job they did.

503
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: Was it sufficient to the task? I would guess that

504
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: it probably wasn't. You've lost to all of those tissues, Nancy. Listen,

505
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 1: what we're dealing here with is an element of time,

506
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 1: every minute, every second that clicks off of that clock.

507
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: And by the time this poor girl's body makes its

508
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,240
Speaker 1: way back to the United States, the forensic mythologists gets

509
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 1: their hands on her remains to examine her, the body

510
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: has passed through a myriad of points along the way.

511
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: So you're losing evidence, and you've also lost this critical tissue.

512
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 1: If we're talking about things like heart tissue in particular,

513
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 1: brain tissue, lungs, all those sorts of things that you

514
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,840
Speaker 1: want to look at, that's gone, Nancy, which means you

515
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 1: will never get the truth. The reality is there is

516
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:47,280
Speaker 1: the Death on the High Seas Act, which somewhat regulates

517
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,720
Speaker 1: investigations of deaths on the high Sea, But the reality

518
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: is that the local law enforcement wherever you may be,

519
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 1: are the ones that are going to investigate in addition

520
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 1: to the ship detectives. Here a nearby volunteer firefighter heard

521
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 1: a ruckus, runs out and performs CPR on Ashley. This

522
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 1: was a birthday cruise. She was going to celebrate what

523
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 1: was soon to be her twenty fifth birthday. Jamie Barnett,

524
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: who was Ashley's mom and president of International Cruise Victims

525
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,320
Speaker 1: dot Org, Jamie, you said that there is a loop

526
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:28,320
Speaker 1: that keeps playing through your head. What is the loop? Well,

527
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 1: just that the phone call that every parent dreads, every

528
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 1: parent and to actually get it, you know, for someone

529
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 1: to call you and say, I hate to tell you this,

530
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry that your daughter passed away today. Just

531
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 1: is there forever every parent's nightmare. Ye know, that the

532
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:57,760
Speaker 1: loop that call, that call over and over and over.

533
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: Miss Barnett, Can I ask you when you think about Ashley,

534
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 1: what is your most vivid recollection of her? Oh? M

535
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 1: Ashley was um one of these kinds of people that

536
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,839
Speaker 1: when she walked into a room, you knew she was there.

537
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 1: Because she just filled it up. You know, she was

538
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 1: so outgoing and the kind of person you just immediately

539
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: took a like to, the kind of person who was

540
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: never never felt uncomfortable, whether she was with princes or paupers.

541
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 1: She was just delightful, and she was an aspiring young actress.

542
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: And um was coming back to have um uh conversations

543
00:37:55,120 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 1: with several different agents because she was lucky to have

544
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: many agents that were interested in her. And she was

545
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 1: cheerful and happy and in great spirits when she left.

546
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: So I you know, that's just kind of a thumbnail

547
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 1: sketch of who she is and what a wonderful young

548
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 1: woman she was. So much to live for, so much

549
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,320
Speaker 1: ahead of her, so much exciting. And you have spent

550
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 1: the rest of your life fighting for justice, not just

551
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:32,720
Speaker 1: for Ashley, your daughter, but for everyone else. It takes

552
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 1: a cruise, guys. Please, I'm going to spend the rest

553
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:41,919
Speaker 1: of my life protecting my children. Yeah, don't be a victim.

554
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 1: Fight back against America's crimeway. Nancy Gray's Crime Story signing

555
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:48,399
Speaker 1: off Goodbye Friend,