1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Brading Welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is and they called 6 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined with our guest producer j J. 7 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:33,840 Speaker 1: Most importantly, you are you. You are here. That makes 8 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:37,239 Speaker 1: this the stuff they don't want you to know. We 9 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 1: found ourselves in a bit of a three pickle fellow 10 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: conspiracy realist. We only do two part episodes when the 11 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: very important to us and when the rabbit hole goes 12 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: ever deeper. Uh So, part way through our previous recording, 13 00:00:54,880 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: we got to what about an hour something and six ish? Yeah, 14 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:05,399 Speaker 1: we we We said, I we don't know if we 15 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 1: can just make a podcast that goes for two hours. 16 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: I mean we could, I mean, but yeah, people, well 17 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: it depends on I think it would be fair to 18 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: us holidays boys. Um So we did the ever rarer 19 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,680 Speaker 1: even retroactive to partner or. We made it all the 20 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: way through and then made the call that hey, this 21 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,119 Speaker 1: should be chumped up and I think I think you'll 22 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: you'll be all the better for it to fair listener, 23 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:35,479 Speaker 1: Well said, so we are going to dive right back 24 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: in the important things you need to know. Number one, 25 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: please listen to part one of this episode. Who killed 26 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: the Sherman's guarantee it will be worth your time. Otherwise 27 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: we're going to sound like complete lunatics. If you just 28 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: roll it to part two. Understand we did the groundwork. Okay, 29 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: So a brief recap. Here are the facts. Barry and 30 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 1: Honey Sherman Canadian billion. There's brutally murdered in December of 31 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen. That is just the beginning of the story. 32 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. We keep going back to 33 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: speaking of haunting questions. We keep going back to this. 34 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: If this is a professional operation, someone who's doing this 35 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: as a job, right, why take the time? It just 36 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: doesn't make sense. Why take the time to pose the 37 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: bodies unless it was a specific thing, and for that 38 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: kind of thing to be part of the job, it 39 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:36,679 Speaker 1: would have to be a deal breaker caffaat by which 40 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: I mean it's not an optional part. It's not an 41 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 1: optional like side quest thing. It's like, you do not 42 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: get paid unless I see this picture. Gosh, that's exactly 43 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 1: what it is. That's exactly what it is. So it 44 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 1: has to be right. It has to be some kind 45 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 1: of professional operator, but we we don't know who. And 46 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: this is where we get the theories right. And we've 47 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 1: only touched a few of the questions right, uh, and 48 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 1: those questions remain unanswered in public today. But when we 49 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: talk about the theories, this is where things become very 50 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:14,920 Speaker 1: interesting and very troubling and spoiler alert folks very unsatisfied. 51 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: First things. First, business rivals, Uh, Noel and Matt and 52 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: j j Uh and I are are very happy to 53 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: say that we have never had a podcast rivalry that 54 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:33,679 Speaker 1: got to the point where where we thought blood would 55 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: be drawn. Uh. Most most in our experience, most of 56 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: the folks we work with, most of our colleagues, are 57 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: are very nice people and they're nice to us as well. 58 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: You can't say the same about the pharmaceutical industry. Whether 59 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: they're they're nice people, that they all like each other. Yeah, well, 60 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: I mean I'm sure some of them do, um, but 61 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: at least on them depending on what side you're on, right. 62 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: But when it comes to rivalries, this stuff is bleeding 63 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: edge type rivalry, stuff like industrial espionage type stuff. You know, um, 64 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: just to be the first to market with the drugs 65 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: or with the generic you know that isn't that that's 66 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 1: an even bigger weird one with the generics. That's undercutters Pizza. 67 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:25,720 Speaker 1: Does anybody remember that Tom Green Undercutterizza. I'm just I'm 68 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,599 Speaker 1: so so surprised to run into Tom today. That's awesome. Um, 69 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 1: But yeah, you're raising great points. So um little insight 70 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: into part of the great amount of litigation that Barry 71 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:41,599 Speaker 1: Sherman would get into her apitext we get into apparently, 72 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 1: was his practice to release a generic drug like a 73 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: year or two before the patent expired, right, and then 74 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,479 Speaker 1: of course you know it's almost automated that the brand 75 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,159 Speaker 1: name drug manufacturer is going to take you to court. 76 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 1: But by the time stuff gets settled, if you have 77 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 1: the capital to go back and forth with the appeals, 78 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:08,720 Speaker 1: the pattern has expired. What you're doing is forcing your 79 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: opponent to bleed blood and treasure, you know. But it's 80 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:17,599 Speaker 1: it's SmartLess. Yeah. And so the question when we hear 81 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: the theories business rivals. Could a rival company or just 82 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:26,359 Speaker 1: someone burned in one of Sherman's many other side investments 83 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: and businesses, could they have been so wronged and so 84 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 1: angry that they took on the great personal risk of 85 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: hiring a hit man. You know, most like most of 86 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:45,159 Speaker 1: those kind of civilian powered hit jobs, they go wrong. 87 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: It's step one. Read about read about a lot, like 88 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 1: a lot of attempted murders or attempted put out a 89 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: hit on so and so's, and you'll see that a 90 00:05:57,680 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: ton of them. I don't know if it's like, I 91 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: don't know the statistic, but a ton of them get 92 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 1: caught just by the act of trying to hire someone. 93 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: These are these not the days of weird, creepy classified ads. 94 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:12,720 Speaker 1: In the back of Soldier of Fortune, there are five 95 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: eyes and they're watching it. You know. Yeah, back page 96 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: got taken down. Maybe okay, so, but you know it 97 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:22,600 Speaker 1: makes sense like that. I think that's high on the list, 98 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: and it should be high on the list of a 99 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 1: potential thing that even the potential of not a professional hit, 100 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: but someone that was wronged so badly that they got 101 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: ruined to the point where all they wanted was revenge. 102 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 1: So that individual ended up being the person who committed 103 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 1: the double homicide. I think that is a possibility that 104 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 1: you can't discount. So then we're saying that they carried 105 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:51,919 Speaker 1: this off a pretty sophisticated operation. They got away on 106 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: their first time out. Okay, you're right a little. That 107 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: is a little probably probably not possible. Their search history 108 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 1: must be bananas, you know, all the stuff they're checking, right, 109 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: we'd than even ours, Yeah, which is say it's well, 110 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: it's specific, it's more specific. It's like it's like typical 111 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: police beats Toronto. So this, I mean, it's true that 112 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 1: we're we're rightly incredulous, but we're trying to evaluate everything 113 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: and that is a possibility. Um, And you know, on 114 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: I love that you pointed out like the generic drugmakers 115 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: in this ecosystem, if this was a David Attenborough documentary, 116 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: it would be like genemic drugmakers the naturallytomy of the 117 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: name brands. So the deal is sometimes like folks will 118 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: try really hard not to allow a drug to become generic. 119 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 1: And that's the really part. You want them to become 120 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,239 Speaker 1: generic because then they become more affordable. But it's still 121 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: massive money maker and opportunistic, right, I mean, that's it 122 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: gets in personal opinion, But yeah, I think we and 123 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: and most people could agree with that, unless unless you 124 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: made the name brand drug or you are an investor advisor, 125 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: and if you take a look at a Texas website 126 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: and you look at their list of generic drugs that 127 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: they offer, you guys, it's everything under the sun. Yes, 128 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: just every possible name brand drug that exists. You will 129 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: see it. Yeah, and you know, for a lot of 130 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:38,719 Speaker 1: people who cannot afford to pay the name brand premium, 131 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 1: this stuff can be a lifesaver, especially in other countries. 132 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:48,199 Speaker 1: You know, we like India has passed some laws fighting 133 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: against name brand pharmaceutical patents because from their perspective, obeying 134 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 1: those laws is putting quarterly profits over human lives. And 135 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: that's a very valid argument. Right. So, yes, there's a 136 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: lot of money. Is it enough money too entice someone 137 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 1: or compel someone to make this hit because someone's clearly 138 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:17,319 Speaker 1: trying to send a message again back to the statues. Right. 139 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 1: So here's why more skeptical folks might say the argument 140 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: doesn't have a lot of sand. All these companies, whatever 141 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 1: kinds of wars and rivalries they have with each other, 142 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:35,439 Speaker 1: they have really clearly defined battle fields court systems, stock markets, boardrooms, 143 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 1: stuff like that. They will Forbes put it this way. 144 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 1: Forbes said, these guys don't kill each other. Basically, they 145 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,839 Speaker 1: try to sue each other into oblivion, right, so it 146 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: would be quite an escalation, you know, we don't we 147 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: don't read about battle Royal's between high muckety MUCKs of 148 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: pharmaceutical industries, you know, like sneaking into each other's houses 149 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: and committing heinous acts of murder. No, again, that seems 150 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 1: like more cartel kind of stuff. But the more we 151 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: read about this stuff, you know, and the more documentaries 152 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,679 Speaker 1: and expose as we re read, the more we realize 153 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: it's not that big of a gap between the way 154 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: that cartels do business and the way these big pharmaceutical 155 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:21,199 Speaker 1: companies do business. Yeah, in the past, you know, legal 156 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: pharmaceutical companies had absolutely no problem with killing normals. I mean, 157 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: I don't know what they call what they call folks, 158 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: but you know, something like more mean, they might not 159 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 1: be fire bombing their houses, but they're certainly allowing them 160 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: to become addicted to drugs that are deceptively labeled, you 161 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: know as non addictive or whatever it might be. And 162 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 1: the Sackler family got away. Yeah, and they did, and 163 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: they didn't, right, I mean, the humans did. The company 164 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 1: basically got a slap on the wrist in terms of 165 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 1: what their actual worth is. But I think they're kind 166 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 1: of defunct now, right, I mean, it did, did it not? 167 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: Are they still a thing? Are they still going concern? 168 00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:58,559 Speaker 1: Because this is the kind of thing that you think 169 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 1: would totally hobble bankrupt business. But I can't remember where 170 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: it landed. I don't know. I can look it up, 171 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:09,679 Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, I'm pretty sure. I Mean, the 172 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:11,680 Speaker 1: main thing that I remember about that case is that 173 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 1: the Sackler family had no criminal consequences, you know, which 174 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 1: was part of their deal they basically made and they 175 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: did openly make a deal with US government. Hold up there, 176 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: let's take a quick break on that note, and here 177 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: it worth from our sponsor, and then we'll jump right 178 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 1: back in and we've returned. Still, there's another piece, regardless 179 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: of where you fall on the argument about name brand 180 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: or generic drugs, right and and price fixing in the 181 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 1: world of of drugs like insulin, for instance, is just 182 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: a crying shame. Um. You have to be coldly logical 183 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: and look at the other problem. If this was motivated 184 00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: by longtime business rivals, people who got burned, the folks 185 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 1: were his enemies, had been his enemies for years, So 186 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:09,319 Speaker 1: we have to ask about the timing. Why now, what popped? 187 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: What triggered it? Right? Um, we know that he had 188 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 1: some financial concerns. There have been some layoffs at Appitechs, 189 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:19,479 Speaker 1: right that that kind of paves the way for some things. Uh, 190 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 1: But unless there is an intervening variable or new information, 191 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: there's not there's not a way to tell on this angle, right, 192 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:33,319 Speaker 1: Like I I where where are the bread crumbs? I 193 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: don't know, Man, I don't know why I'm asking. I'm 194 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:42,680 Speaker 1: asking it. I'm like shrugging at Matt as though, great question. 195 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: Let me send you this pdf. How about this? What 196 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 1: if it is a in a sense a business rival, 197 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: but it's in the family. So I remember the top 198 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: we're talking about how family members got burned when uh 199 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: was it? Well? No, when his uncle what gave Empire 200 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: Pharmaceutical to him? Right? Yes? Yeah? Uh? And you can 201 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 1: see how if you're that guy's kid, that's a real 202 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: kick in the pants. You know, that's a tremendously unpleasant 203 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 1: feeling on a professional and personal level. Right, I like 204 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 1: your cousin more than I like you my child. Uh. 205 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: It's yeah, it's it's I appreciate that point, because this 206 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 1: murder does feel not just professional, not just sophisticated and premeditated. 207 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: It feels very personal. Please hear the italics when we 208 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 1: say that personal. Uh, and we should talk about the family, like, 209 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:42,559 Speaker 1: let's let's get this out of the way. If you're 210 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 1: at all familiar with this case, Um, first off, if 211 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 1: you haven't read Kevin Donovan's book, Uh, I would say 212 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: that is probably the best collected source of this information 213 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: because the guy has been there uh since pretty much 214 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,080 Speaker 1: day one, right, and he's talked to a person. So 215 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: we're going to introduce now in the court of public 216 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: opinion and amature sluts, there is one. There's a number 217 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 1: one suspect. It is the son of Barry Sherman. His 218 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 1: name is Jonathan Sherman. Yeah. When we go through this, uh, Noel, 219 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: I know you're a big fan of succession. Yeah, I'm sure. 220 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: And can I ask to I mean, these four Sherman kids, 221 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: these are all grown, right, they're all out of the house. 222 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: So these sculptures would have been a thing that like 223 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: haunted their childhood a little bit, right, I mean they 224 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: really didn't like them, Yeah, because these were created in 225 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: the seventies. So, Um, the I'm just saying like that 226 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: adds a little bit of personal touch to it, if 227 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: you if you, if you want to go down this road, 228 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: you know, I like what you're pointing out about secession, 229 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: because this is this is very much you know, the 230 00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: conflict is Shakespearean almost in the in the dramatic stakes. 231 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 1: So at the time of Barry Sherman's death, he and 232 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 1: his son are not getting along. He had actually tried 233 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: to get his three sisters to enter into what you 234 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: could call a conspiracy within the family to have their 235 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: father declared incompetent and to have him removed from running 236 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: app Tex. Yeah. Uh, and that's I haven't watched the session, 237 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: but that feels like that's clearly a plot thread, right absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. 238 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: There's even a thing at some point in the show 239 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: called like a like a hostile takeover essentially that one 240 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: of the kids you know, leagues up with his other 241 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: kind of venture capital you know, childhood friend of his 242 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 1: and does this hostile takeover. And then at some point 243 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: um the lead character, the kind of the patriarch or 244 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 1: whatever he does, start showing some signs of dementia or 245 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: or you know, mental decline, and the kids, you know, 246 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: look at that like sharks look at a bucket of 247 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 1: chum m. I see spotting weaknesses. Yeah, so this is 248 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 1: Jonathan Sherman we're talking about just to be Jonathan Sherman. Yes, 249 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: Jonathan Sherman UH is in the family business, right, and 250 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 1: they're looking at their working as investors. They've got business ideas, concepts, 251 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: and he and his father often go back and forth 252 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 1: right about business opportunities, about decisions at the company. H. 253 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: And they can have these what Corporate America would call 254 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 1: healthy conversations a k arguments about how the family fortune 255 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: should be spent, should be directed, should be invested, should 256 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: be grown. So about two years after the murders, remember right, 257 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: about two years after Jonathan fires, a long time employee 258 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: of app Tech guy named Jack Kay. Jack Kay helped 259 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 1: Barry Sherman build the company pretty much from the ground up. Right. 260 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: He's an a one since day one. UH, and they 261 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:14,440 Speaker 1: worked together over the course of thirty five years. There's 262 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,439 Speaker 1: a character like that in succession. I really like this, 263 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: say is you're not wrong, Matt, this is UH. I 264 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: wonder if there was a little bit of inspiration pulled 265 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: from this, And it does seem like kind of the 266 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: way George Armartin took some little snippets from historical stuff 267 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: to make the Game of Thrones series. I feel like 268 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 1: the creators of Succession might have pulled some Murdoch here 269 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 1: and a little bit of you know, Trump family there, 270 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:42,399 Speaker 1: and some of this, oh yeah, or it's you know. 271 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: The other side is it might just be a distressingly 272 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:50,199 Speaker 1: common yeah trope. Yeah, unfortunately, but but okay, So to 273 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,199 Speaker 1: some people hearing it, this is just business, and you 274 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:57,679 Speaker 1: can say, hey, maybe it's not a very touchy feely, 275 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: warm and fuzzy thing, but the sky is now the 276 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: helm of the company. Maybe he wants to start kind 277 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: of a new regime, Maybe he wants to close the 278 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: door on the past, open a new chapter. Whatever buzzwords 279 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: people use during layoffs. Uh. But if you're more conspiratorial, 280 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 1: you might say this feels a lot like covering your 281 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 1: tracks somehow. Although I feel like, if you think that 282 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: guy's a liability, you want to keep him closer and 283 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: under surveillance. Right, you fire him, you take away the 284 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: company that he's been building for almost forty years. Then 285 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 1: all of a sudden he has a lot of free 286 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,399 Speaker 1: time to focus on revenge, Like giving him an instagrind, 287 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:39,920 Speaker 1: you know, and didn't have to be that way. He 288 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:42,440 Speaker 1: could have kept him closer, you know, like they say 289 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 1: keep your friends close and your enemies closer. At this 290 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:46,879 Speaker 1: doesn't seem to fit with that. This sounds more just 291 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,679 Speaker 1: like internal in fighting. Or maybe he was more in 292 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: his dad's corner and he needed his own man, you know, 293 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 1: and he couldn't have that kind of poisoning his whole 294 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 1: new regime. Wait till you hear about the loan. The loan. Yes, 295 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: so there are some sharks in this story after all. Yes, 296 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: sketchy sketchy loans. Yes, sketchy loans brought to you by 297 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 1: I g u uh yes uh you guys ever taken 298 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: a loan out with your family? I took one out 299 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,199 Speaker 1: for just a little bit for some house repairs with 300 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:26,160 Speaker 1: my family. Um, it's a little different than this situation. Wait, 301 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,399 Speaker 1: like you you like okay, like all in the family 302 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: kind of loan or like uh, like my dad gave 303 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:34,199 Speaker 1: me some money to help me pay for a thing, 304 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: and then I paid him back and paid him back 305 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: at different than this. To quote our boss Conald Byrne 306 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: in the movie The Vaults, nothing scarieran I think it's 307 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 1: the only thing scares me is bad loan. Oh man, Um, 308 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,680 Speaker 1: that is still my favorite line of that movie. It's 309 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:57,119 Speaker 1: weird that our boss has made so many movies. Yeah, 310 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 1: it's odd. I think it's still on Netflix if you 311 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:04,120 Speaker 1: want to check it out. Yes, and do check out Goshi. Yeah, 312 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:06,400 Speaker 1: he had a couple on Netflix for a while. Williams 313 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 1: Zero was the other. Yeah. Yeah, this guy, Dan Bush 314 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 1: should we do a lot of podcast stuff with. But 315 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 1: he's sort of this local luminary kind of indie director 316 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: guy who Connal has always been. Really, he's been a 317 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: few He's been in a few of his pictures and 318 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 1: they do some great stuff. And also, um, both of them. 319 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 1: It might openI your very talented writers. Uh so, yeah, 320 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: our boss is cooler than us. That's the stuff we 321 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: don't want you to know. But let's be honest in 322 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: the spirit of the show. Uh loans, yes, loans. Despite 323 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 1: the idea that you know, you'll hear people say never 324 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,359 Speaker 1: never mix family and money if you can avoid it, 325 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: or mix family in business. Right, But um, this is 326 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,640 Speaker 1: not the friendly uncle helping you out. This is not 327 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:57,120 Speaker 1: like you know, your mom getting you through a rough 328 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: month or something like that, or asking, you know, simply 329 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 1: for help. Right before Barry Sherman and his spouse Honey 330 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: Sherman murdered, Barry is demanding that his son Jonathan repay 331 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 1: alone that was estimated to be somewhere between fifty to 332 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:25,400 Speaker 1: sixty million dollars. This is not you know, that's exactly well. 333 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 1: I mean, over the years, it looks like Barry had 334 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: given at least a hundred and twenty five million dollars 335 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: even more to his son and his son's business partner, 336 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 1: Adam Poulin in the form of interest free loans. Not 337 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,160 Speaker 1: nine times out of ten you're getting a loan from 338 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:48,239 Speaker 1: your pops, you know, or grandpapa in this case, he's 339 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 1: starting the big but you know, typically but you know, 340 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:53,640 Speaker 1: you're not. We're not talking about this kind of scale. 341 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 1: That's insane. And then to to to cut the bank 342 00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:00,639 Speaker 1: out of this, that's almost it almost seems sketchy. Well, no, 343 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 1: it does seem sketchy, right, it is. It is sketchy. 344 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: I went through all range of emotions. You're you're one 345 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: of two murder victims, and you recently demanded that your 346 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 1: son repay you fifty million dollars. I don't know if 347 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:19,399 Speaker 1: that's Canadian or US but still fifty million. Uh yeah, 348 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: so I believe I believe those are U s sellars. 349 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:26,479 Speaker 1: But still either way, at that level, it's an amount 350 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:28,680 Speaker 1: of money that the vast majority of people in the 351 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: world simply do not possess and probably will never touch. 352 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: But this, this idea, uh is talked about again we 353 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: want to go straight to sources. Right. This idea has 354 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:48,880 Speaker 1: talked about by Jonathan Sherman himself in an interview with 355 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: Kevin Donovan, and he puts it pretty bluntly and it 356 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:59,400 Speaker 1: might be you know, I recommend folks, if you want 357 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 1: to learn more you check out the full transcript of 358 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 1: that interview. Do do read that interview because, um, it 359 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 1: will it will give you a lot to chew on. 360 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 1: But anyway, Uh, Jonathan Sherman addresses this directly and he says, look, 361 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,680 Speaker 1: I'm not going to kill my dad because he needs 362 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 1: fifty million dollars to get through a crisis. Again, Appo, 363 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:26,439 Speaker 1: tex was you know, going through some travails. So in 364 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: the aftermath of the murder, by the way, the other 365 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: three sisters they don't have a good relationship with their 366 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: brother anymore. At least there's one sister named Alex and 367 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: her husband has gone on record saying he thinks Jonathan 368 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,879 Speaker 1: was somehow involved in the murder. We're gonna pause for 369 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 1: word from our sponsors and will return shortly, and we're back. 370 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 1: And in another example of how this Sherman family was 371 00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: a lot like the Knives Out Family, there's a sequel 372 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 1: coming out right now. We are not sponsored by that movie, 373 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,119 Speaker 1: but tomorrow I think it hits this. It's hits the 374 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 1: Netflix tomorrow. I'm excited. Supposed to be great. Oh there 375 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: you go. Um, there's another family member. This time it 376 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 1: was Honey Sherman's sister, and she mentions that, or at 377 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 1: least at one point she mentioned that she's no longer 378 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 1: talking to Jonathan or the rest of the Sherman's because, uh, 379 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: she was promised by her sister. Again, Honey Sherman, a 380 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: little bit of a I don't know, a loan of 381 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: her own, or at least a here's some money gift 382 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: for one reason or another bonus or even or even 383 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,119 Speaker 1: perhaps a you know, uh something in the will she was. 384 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 1: She says she was promised three hundred million dollars by 385 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 1: her sister and she's been unable to attain that money, 386 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 1: even though this can't be found anywhere. You know, it's 387 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,160 Speaker 1: not been proven that this was ever promised at all, 388 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: like in a court of law. In a human moment, 389 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:03,440 Speaker 1: think about this. Uh, For the majority of people, when 390 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 1: a parent passes, it's a very very terrible thing, right, 391 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 1: It's traumatic. It's you're at one of the most vulnerable 392 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 1: moments in your life. How do you feel when some 393 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: relative comes to you, you know, and says, oh, also, 394 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 1: your parents told me that you were going to give 395 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 1: me millions of dollars, so you want to punch them right? Yeah, No, 396 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: it's bad because I mean, you know, not only are 397 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,359 Speaker 1: you at you know, emotionally vulnerable, oftentimes you're having to 398 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: deal with lots of other financial stuff directly related the 399 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: pass saying and you know, God forbid you didn't have 400 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: so you know, of course, with this level of wealth, 401 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 1: there would have been likely a trust or paperwork in place. 402 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 1: But even with that, you know, and if there's the 403 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: squabbling siblings involved, and and you're coming from this, uh, 404 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 1: this legacy of litigiousness, you know, I mean everyone would 405 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: have just been at that like raw nerves all around, 406 00:25:55,880 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 1: you know, and this so this shows us there's a 407 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,640 Speaker 1: lot of descent and tension within the family structure itself 408 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: in the case of the Sherman. So Jonathan Sherman maintains 409 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,920 Speaker 1: that he was not involved in the murders in any shape, 410 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 1: form or fashion. And again, just exercise empathy. Imagine how 411 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,439 Speaker 1: just horrid that is for your parents to have passed 412 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:26,959 Speaker 1: in such a terrible way and then the nation of 413 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: Canada to keep telling you that you did it. And 414 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 1: this would have been like tabloid fodder, right, and this 415 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: would have been the kind of stuff that's like nasty 416 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:40,159 Speaker 1: quote unquote journalists, like digging through your trash and like 417 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,120 Speaker 1: hiding out in your yarw. You know that that would 418 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 1: have been the level of scandal that this would have been, 419 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: you know, for this person. Jonathan makes a really great 420 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,119 Speaker 1: point though, because he's actually spoken publicly about it a 421 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,959 Speaker 1: couple of times. Oh yeah, oh yeah, he does. Uh. 422 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:58,879 Speaker 1: He He says, you know that he believes someone he 423 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: believes there was a higher hand. He does think it 424 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: was a professional hit. He thinks someone else and he 425 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 1: doesn't know who has paid a professional two commit these murders. 426 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 1: And then he also said, look, I know that when 427 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 1: I was initially asked to talk about this publicly. I 428 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: know the fact that I refused to go on record 429 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,640 Speaker 1: might seem suspicious, and I get that the loan stuff 430 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 1: seems weird. But then he he says this quote I 431 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 1: think you're referring to right now. Oh yeah, he says, 432 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: anytime you get involved with a billionaire, things always turn 433 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:39,920 Speaker 1: a little suspicious. Question, no question, I mean money being 434 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,400 Speaker 1: the root of all evil or whatever, like the way 435 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: it makes people do crazy things out of character, maybe even, 436 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,200 Speaker 1: But also this seems pretty in character for a lot 437 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:55,640 Speaker 1: of these think think about the mindset. But Jonathan's earlier quote, 438 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 1: I'm not going to kill my dad over fifty million dollars. 439 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 1: I was taking it back by that quote because I 440 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 1: was like, wait, what is he getting at there? Like 441 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: that's change? Yeah, that's how is the NATA Michael? How 442 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: much could it cost? How much could it cost? Yeah? No, 443 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 1: I was actually thrown by that a little bit. I'm like, 444 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 1: is this supposed to be a sympathetic thing that he's saying. 445 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: Is he trying to relate to me like it's cost 446 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 1: thank you? Come wow? But I mean, yeah, you're raising 447 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 1: a good point. And I did miss that one. I gotta. 448 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,200 Speaker 1: I don't work on my empathy. But yeah. He also says, 449 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: I don't know who anyone who can plan a murder 450 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 1: in three weeks, but I can tell you I was 451 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: not involved. Did you need to put the first part 452 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: of that? I don't personally. I probably know a guy 453 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: who knows a guy, but I don't know he's like 454 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: four weeks minimum. You know what I mean? You need 455 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 1: a toe, I can get you a toe. I got 456 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 1: a guy you can get you with without fingernail polish. 457 00:28:55,400 --> 00:29:00,040 Speaker 1: What do you know that's from the it's from you. 458 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: I thought t w or like it always sunny where 459 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 1: they like you need a baby? Yeah, we can get 460 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: you a baby. Do you want for like the afternoon 461 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 1: or for like forever? Uh? But yeah, and you know, 462 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 1: we have to be we have to be careful, of course, 463 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 1: because this guy is probably speaking extemporaneously. He's probably speaking 464 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 1: about something that is very much troubling, you know, rightly, 465 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: so uh so we don't want to spit defensive reasonably, 466 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: you know, assume let's assume that he's completely guilty but 467 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: also just kind of this guy. He can't stop being 468 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: this guy, right, but he's also just like how dare you, 469 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 1: you know, And so he's coming off a little bit 470 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 1: of abrasive and aggressive because he's being attacked. You say 471 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 1: he's guilty or innocent. No, No, I said, he's guilty 472 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,959 Speaker 1: of being this guy maybe kind of a you know. 473 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 1: And also, but he's not necessarily guilty of being a 474 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: parent murderer. I guess what we're saying is like, look, 475 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 1: you know, to get along with him, but just because 476 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 1: you might not like his vibe doesn't mean he's committed patricide, right, matricide. 477 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 1: That's the thing that plays in into Knives Out really well. 478 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 1: And a lot of these kind of like drawing room 479 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 1: murders where you've got these characters who are patently unlikable, um, 480 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: and it kind of guides you to think, oh, that 481 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 1: gout such a he he definitely did it. But then 482 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 1: it's usually not that guy you know in the in 483 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 1: the stories, it's who's gonna benefit, right Yeah, And if 484 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: you're if you're innocent too, and if you truly uh 485 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: you truly know that you were innocent, then you don't 486 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 1: have to waste as much time on diplomacy, you know 487 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 1: what I mean. That's what Knives Out teaches you. You 488 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 1: don't have to be very good point very good. Yeah, No, 489 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 1: it's true. I got nothing to hide. I'm just gonna 490 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 1: be balls out, you know, and knives balls That could 491 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: be a parody, a sequel, or a porn version. Perhaps 492 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 1: I did uh a my old sketch show crew. Uh. 493 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: We used to have a series, an annual series of 494 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 1: live sketch shows that for some reason we decided to 495 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 1: call balls out and it was like a great idea 496 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: that we got to number three or four and then 497 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: we're like, guys, I never thought this moment would come. 498 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: We might be scraping the bottom of the barrel of 499 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 1: balls jokes. All right, let's pitch uh case. But uh 500 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 1: but so now, okay, so we've got that, and there's 501 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 1: a lot more to say. We'll we'll leave Jonathan Sherman 502 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 1: there for a moment, and we want to explore some 503 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 1: of the crazier stuff right now. Again, if you ask 504 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 1: the average person who doesn't believe the official narrative, or 505 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 1: if they have a theory, they will probably say that 506 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 1: Jonathan Sherman is involved somehow. That's what they think is 507 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 1: the most likely thing. But that's not the only thing 508 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: out there. We're getting deeper into rabbit hole territory. We said, 509 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 1: the family, you know, staunch supporters of Israel, um very prominent, 510 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 1: very prominent philanthropist in the Jewish community and charities in particular. Uh, 511 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: there there's been speculation that's kind of unfounded. Well that 512 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: is unfounded, that kind of that, and and there was 513 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 1: an enemy of this activity they rubbed someone the wrong way, 514 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 1: like politically, like like like who are not in support 515 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 1: of Israel? Like that's the idea. But but there's not 516 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 1: a lot of naming of specifics is the problem, you 517 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 1: know what I mean, There's there's no one saying Hamas 518 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: did it or something like that. They're just saying, well, 519 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 1: they were tied to this, and you know, I mean, 520 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: you know, in that level of money, you know, both 521 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 1: talks and walks. So you could consider them part of 522 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 1: the problem. If you were really opposed to the cause 523 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,239 Speaker 1: that they were supporting, you might consider them truly an 524 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 1: enemy because their money is doing things that are directly 525 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 1: and athetical to everything that you stand for. Perhaps, right, yeah, yeah, 526 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 1: just perhaps, and it's a symbolic act perhaps at that 527 00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:59,680 Speaker 1: point too. I mean again, I'm just jumping down that 528 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 1: rab whole. You know, there's a lot of speculation running 529 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 1: wild on this one. Yeah. And if it was terrorist 530 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 1: activity though, um, there there would likely be someone taking 531 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 1: public responsibility. Right, Like I was saying earlier, like this 532 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:19,640 Speaker 1: vague posing serial killer tableau, while creepy, not really a 533 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 1: calling card of a particular group that we're aware of, 534 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, No, this is a one off for 535 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 1: very specific audience, right, we just don't know who that 536 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 1: audience is. Really. Someone's twisting the knife, but you know 537 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,920 Speaker 1: who are they twisting it at? So there's even more 538 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: to this story. As we mentioned, Barry Sherman not just 539 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,120 Speaker 1: a high level pharmaceutical exact. He could make the money dance. 540 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 1: He had a lot of other associated businesses. I was 541 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 1: reading that one of the last court cases was evolved 542 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 1: in before Before, um, before the Sherman's passed away was 543 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 1: about a trivia app for phones. You know, it sounds fun. 544 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 1: I guess, man, I don't they have those already. There's 545 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 1: the twist. You know, maybe he was VC like venture 546 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:11,600 Speaker 1: capital and something day one investor and then things got 547 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 1: ugly or one sideways. But he had a lot of 548 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 1: He also, being very you know, financially literate, had schemes 549 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:23,760 Speaker 1: to avoid taxes. Right when you're a billionaire, you barely 550 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 1: even needs schemes these days, if you're a billionaire to 551 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,840 Speaker 1: avoid paying taxes. I think there's been much inks billed 552 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: on that subject in the in the press, you know, 553 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,759 Speaker 1: just by the right politicians, you know what I mean, 554 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: tax laws boring. A lot of people don't pay attention 555 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,920 Speaker 1: to it, and that is by design. So uh, this 556 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:46,319 Speaker 1: so he like I read that he had, um, he 557 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 1: had things where he had like a scheme to get 558 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,840 Speaker 1: away with some tax tax dodgy or tax shelter stuff 559 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:57,400 Speaker 1: by by getting messed with high end yachts. I don't know. 560 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 1: I feel like billionaires just sort of have yachts anyway, 561 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 1: kind of like g I Joe has just come with 562 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 1: a backpack. But but no, apparently that was something he 563 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,799 Speaker 1: was working on, and he had a bunch of other 564 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,120 Speaker 1: things with app tex As well. So that's why you'll 565 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:16,360 Speaker 1: find speculation that maybe he started messing with the wrong 566 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 1: side of powerful finance, organized crime, mafia triads, kind of 567 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:27,400 Speaker 1: folks who don't take their disagreements to court. Texas t 568 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 1: But that's like that that is a fascinating thing. Um, 569 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 1: And you could say that after a certain threshold of wealth, 570 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 1: you do inevitably end up touching on criminal enterprise in 571 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:50,719 Speaker 1: one way or another. You know, even if it's not 572 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:54,120 Speaker 1: you directly. The types of opportunities that are really the 573 00:35:54,200 --> 00:36:01,799 Speaker 1: money makers, you know, sometimes the tentacles extend into illegitimate operations, 574 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 1: and when you're rich enough, you pay other people to 575 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:06,359 Speaker 1: worry about that kind of stuff. So you're not even 576 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,520 Speaker 1: turning a blind ie. You're just kind of blissfully unaware 577 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:14,239 Speaker 1: sometimes or completely aware and like into it. Right. And 578 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,439 Speaker 1: at this point, folks, you might be asking, why why 579 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:21,279 Speaker 1: did you guys make a two part episode on a 580 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:27,839 Speaker 1: five year old unsolved murder first to talk about? Well, 581 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,360 Speaker 1: I've never heard of it, and you guys, I disappeared 582 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 1: for a second because I had a washing machine um 583 00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 1: delivered in the washing machine guy overheard kind of the 584 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:36,600 Speaker 1: tail and we were talking about and he asked about 585 00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:38,719 Speaker 1: the case and he was like, this kind of thing 586 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,040 Speaker 1: they make like Netflix specials about, and I'm like, I 587 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 1: bet there is some low rent special or twenty or 588 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 1: something like that about this, but they certainly haven't given 589 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,960 Speaker 1: it the royal treatment yet, and I feel like Hit 590 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,480 Speaker 1: is deserving of that, even if it's like inspiration fictionalized 591 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:57,799 Speaker 1: in some way, but it's it's wild ride. Yeah, and 592 00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:02,200 Speaker 1: it's still it's still an ongoing ride. Honestly. You know, Um, 593 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,200 Speaker 1: two people were taken from the world before their time. 594 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 1: And again, you don't have to personally know someone, you 595 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,080 Speaker 1: don't have to get along with them to realize how 596 00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,720 Speaker 1: unjust that is. Right, And there's another piece of scuttle 597 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,359 Speaker 1: butter conspiracy. I was reading that I think we absolutely 598 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:22,960 Speaker 1: should talk about here, the tip line, the private agency, 599 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,160 Speaker 1: the tip line. There is another story and I know 600 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,840 Speaker 1: this is unresolved mysteries on Reddit, which is a great, 601 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:35,200 Speaker 1: great read right um and very supportive community. One person 602 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:39,360 Speaker 1: points out, in regards to a privately financed tip line, 603 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,640 Speaker 1: the story of an l A club owner named Brett 604 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:47,080 Speaker 1: Cantor Uh. He was murdered in his home in the 605 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 1: case remains unsolved. His family set up their own tip 606 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,760 Speaker 1: line and a reward just like the Sherman's. The Shermans 607 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 1: set up their own p I team that they put 608 00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:00,080 Speaker 1: out a ten million dollar reward for anything resulting in 609 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:05,600 Speaker 1: a conviction. Uh. And then they also had a tip line. Uh. 610 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,279 Speaker 1: And the thing with the can't work cases appears the 611 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 1: family had everything about the tip line made made to 612 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:16,839 Speaker 1: seem as though l a p D was running it, 613 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,719 Speaker 1: but it was totally private, and they would just decide 614 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:23,840 Speaker 1: what tips they wanted to give to l a p 615 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:28,200 Speaker 1: D after receiving them from people who most likely thought 616 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:33,600 Speaker 1: they were already calling the cops. Right, that's the question. 617 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 1: Is the tip line a filter for control of information? 618 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,520 Speaker 1: Now that's you know, that's still that's just scuttle butt, 619 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,440 Speaker 1: and and no one's saying that about the Sherman family. 620 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:50,960 Speaker 1: But I never thought about what a evil and brilliant 621 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:55,279 Speaker 1: tactic that would be. You know, call the call the 622 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 1: tip line so that we can decide what you get 623 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 1: to say aid to the police. Oh man, I don't 624 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,839 Speaker 1: know if there's an equivalent in fiction for this, but 625 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,200 Speaker 1: what if you what if you were involved in a 626 00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,560 Speaker 1: scheme like this and then you personally put out a 627 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 1: massive reward to find the killer, right, knowing that you 628 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:21,000 Speaker 1: would never pay that reward because you would be able 629 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:26,560 Speaker 1: to manage the information. Right. And then also you're putting yourself, um, 630 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 1: you're you're moving counterintuitively, right, You're saying, I I want 631 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,000 Speaker 1: to solve this as much as everybody else. You know, 632 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:38,280 Speaker 1: and that's I mean, that's that is the stuff of fiction, 633 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:43,880 Speaker 1: right and noir crime. And we're not saying it because 634 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,840 Speaker 1: we're not saying that. I'm just bringing it up because 635 00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:51,000 Speaker 1: it's such a fascinating It's a thing that could really work. 636 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,960 Speaker 1: That's what bothers me. It could actually work in the 637 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:58,080 Speaker 1: real world. Um. But speaking of you know, rewards, recent developments, 638 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,520 Speaker 1: they have the ten million dollar reward for arrest ree 639 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,120 Speaker 1: or a tip leading to an arrest that leads to 640 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:06,160 Speaker 1: a conviction in court because they want justice rightly. So 641 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:13,000 Speaker 1: in December of very recently, Jonathan Sherman announced that he 642 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:17,319 Speaker 1: was personally adding twenty five million more dollars to that 643 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:21,520 Speaker 1: original rewards. Now it is thirty five million dollars for 644 00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:25,520 Speaker 1: a tip that results in a conviction. Wow, And I 645 00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,360 Speaker 1: mean you've got and then it gets weirder. Hold on, 646 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:30,440 Speaker 1: So he took half the money that he owed his 647 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:34,120 Speaker 1: dad and put it towards trying to help solve the 648 00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:41,680 Speaker 1: murder of his dad. He also already had other millions. Yeah. Yeah, 649 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,600 Speaker 1: but here's here's another weird thing that that we found 650 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:48,440 Speaker 1: that this is a recent development. The Toronto Police, you know, 651 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,840 Speaker 1: they haven't closed the case. They expanded their investigation again 652 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:56,120 Speaker 1: quite recently, and they're seeking more information in five other 653 00:40:56,440 --> 00:41:03,200 Speaker 1: different countries, not counties, not did Macon counties, countries. Lord, 654 00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:06,480 Speaker 1: So does that mean that they suspect a hitman who 655 00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:10,160 Speaker 1: traveled from abroad? Are they looking at where the siblings 656 00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:13,759 Speaker 1: were in the world when these murders occurred? Are they 657 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:17,000 Speaker 1: requesting banking information? What are they after? I want to 658 00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,359 Speaker 1: see the special or the series or whatever it's going 659 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,799 Speaker 1: to be coming too. So I'm really shocked that it's 660 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,040 Speaker 1: not out there at least one that we are aware of. 661 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:33,080 Speaker 1: Let's get Jason English on this. Yeah, I believe CBS 662 00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,000 Speaker 1: has done a piece on this, but again, the more 663 00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:39,600 Speaker 1: stuff is continuing to come out. We do have a 664 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:45,000 Speaker 1: quote from Detective Constable Dennis y m Why I am 665 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,000 Speaker 1: hats off to you, sir, the sole detective still working 666 00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:51,000 Speaker 1: full time on this probe, and in court you said 667 00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:53,840 Speaker 1: the bulk of the investigation so far has been in Canada, 668 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,920 Speaker 1: but it's taking out a bit of an international flair 669 00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:03,400 Speaker 1: and it is uh, I don't know. It makes you wonder, right, like, 670 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,839 Speaker 1: how how would you string out the proxies, how would 671 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:11,560 Speaker 1: you communicate? Why would you send somebody from abroad to 672 00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:13,480 Speaker 1: do a job, right, knowing they'd have to get in 673 00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:17,279 Speaker 1: and out of customs or however they transport. I just 674 00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:25,440 Speaker 1: need one of those Chinese police stations, I mean the 675 00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:31,040 Speaker 1: service stations, folks. Uh so the I don't know, do 676 00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:33,799 Speaker 1: you guys find any of these theories solid or did 677 00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:36,680 Speaker 1: none of them? Quite explain it? Where where are we at? 678 00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:41,480 Speaker 1: You know? I've still got to process this, honestly. Um, 679 00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:44,160 Speaker 1: the money stuff really does make it unlikely the Sun 680 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:47,160 Speaker 1: did it, but there are so many personal touches that 681 00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:49,279 Speaker 1: make me think the Sun did do it or some 682 00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:54,200 Speaker 1: other family member did it. Um. The rivalry thing is interesting, 683 00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:57,640 Speaker 1: but again I don't see a calling card. Or maybe 684 00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,120 Speaker 1: it was to throw the cops off the scent to 685 00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:02,000 Speaker 1: do it weird like they did it, you know what 686 00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:05,000 Speaker 1: I mean. I don't know. Yeah, that's a good question too. 687 00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:07,960 Speaker 1: That's a good point. It definitely doesn't look like a 688 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:12,600 Speaker 1: crime of passion, which you may associate with a family member, 689 00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:16,200 Speaker 1: you know, murdering their mom and dad right just you. 690 00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,720 Speaker 1: I wonder if that's purposeful. Yeah, and it also doesn't 691 00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:24,319 Speaker 1: seem like it would be Um, I don't know, like 692 00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:28,960 Speaker 1: the idea of UM arrival in a legitimate business space 693 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:33,640 Speaker 1: like pharmaceutical industry. That that's still that doesn't equate either, 694 00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:36,239 Speaker 1: you know, because they usually will fight in the court 695 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:40,120 Speaker 1: of law these days. Um, I think, what if it's 696 00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:45,560 Speaker 1: just the person that they that Honey borrowed the statues 697 00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,920 Speaker 1: and was so mad about it because she had to 698 00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:55,480 Speaker 1: let Honey borrow it, as you said, Oh gosh, I'm 699 00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:59,000 Speaker 1: only kidding. I'm only kidding right right, But still, what 700 00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:00,959 Speaker 1: that tells me is we don't want to hang out 701 00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:03,799 Speaker 1: with that crowd, you know what I mean, if things 702 00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:06,960 Speaker 1: escalate to that level. Dude, did you guys finish the 703 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:10,600 Speaker 1: second season of the HBO show Ooh gosh, it's the 704 00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:13,920 Speaker 1: White Lotus. Oh yeah, it's fantastic. I haven't finished it 705 00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:19,400 Speaker 1: all right, Well, at least likely scenario for where the 706 00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:21,520 Speaker 1: bodies came from ended up kind of being the thing 707 00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:26,960 Speaker 1: in that one. Okay, I'll just read the wiki. Thanks guys. No, No, 708 00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:30,640 Speaker 1: it's just you know, that really isn't a spoiler. I'm 709 00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:32,080 Speaker 1: just saying it's like and that's usually how it is 710 00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,600 Speaker 1: in those shows. It's sort of a format where you know, 711 00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:39,920 Speaker 1: usually the person it can be a combination perhaps of 712 00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:43,319 Speaker 1: an orchestrated something and then something goes wrong, and then 713 00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:45,439 Speaker 1: things have to be kind of corrected at the last 714 00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:48,480 Speaker 1: minute and improvised. You know, there's allays all kinds of 715 00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:55,560 Speaker 1: combination elements that could be a play here, right right. Um. 716 00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:58,920 Speaker 1: You know, there's also the idea that maybe this was 717 00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:02,680 Speaker 1: meant to be a robbery or an intimidation of some 718 00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:06,360 Speaker 1: sort any way wrong, but nothing was taken. The house 719 00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:10,200 Speaker 1: is demolished now by the way. Uh. You know. The 720 00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:12,560 Speaker 1: thing is, we can go back and forth on this 721 00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:16,040 Speaker 1: for hours and hours, and I I would love to 722 00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:19,719 Speaker 1: make limited series kind of deep dive on this. We 723 00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:23,600 Speaker 1: we'll call Jason. But the there's one thing for sure, 724 00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,799 Speaker 1: and this is which really haunt you folks. Someone out 725 00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:33,080 Speaker 1: there right now, in all likelihood knows exactly what happened, 726 00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:36,080 Speaker 1: and they are currently doing their best to make sure 727 00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:41,520 Speaker 1: no one else learns the truth, which is terrifying. Hey, 728 00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:43,719 Speaker 1: so what do you think why don't you get in 729 00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:53,560 Speaker 1: contact with us? Yeah? The family ask you to contact 730 00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:57,520 Speaker 1: Toronto Police Service at Sherman Tips all one word at 731 00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:01,959 Speaker 1: Toronto Police dot O n dot see a uh, and 732 00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:04,439 Speaker 1: you can also of course let us you know, we'd 733 00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:08,879 Speaker 1: be really interested to hear your take on this, your 734 00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:14,520 Speaker 1: thoughts angles that you wish were covered in more detail. Um, 735 00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,680 Speaker 1: we've given some of the most prominent theories, but by 736 00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:21,520 Speaker 1: no means all of the theories. And this is this 737 00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,880 Speaker 1: is a very deep rabbit hole, folks. Um, and we 738 00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:27,359 Speaker 1: cannot wait to hear your thoughts. Yeah, you can find 739 00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:31,240 Speaker 1: us a myriad of ways, one of which includes several 740 00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:33,719 Speaker 1: Internet methods of getting in touch with us. We are 741 00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:39,040 Speaker 1: conspiracy Stuff on Twitter, YouTube, and uh Facebook, where we 742 00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:42,640 Speaker 1: have a conspiracy Stuff group called Here's Where It Gets Crazy. 743 00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:44,560 Speaker 1: Check that out. You can also get to us on 744 00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:50,319 Speaker 1: Instagram at Conspiracy Stuff Show. Don't Forget TikTok. Yeah, what's 745 00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:52,920 Speaker 1: that one? What's that handle? Conspiracy stuff? Do we even know? 746 00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:58,760 Speaker 1: We're not Tiktoker's. I don't know. Still forget, never forget, 747 00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:02,080 Speaker 1: never forget it. I think it's conspiracy Stuff show on TikTok. 748 00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:05,120 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure. Um. Hey, we also have a phone 749 00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:08,400 Speaker 1: number one eight three three st d w y t K. 750 00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:12,560 Speaker 1: When you call in, please please leave a message. You've 751 00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:15,200 Speaker 1: got three minutes. Give yourself a cool nickname. We don't 752 00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:17,040 Speaker 1: care what it is. Let us know if we can 753 00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:20,400 Speaker 1: use your name. And message on the air, And really 754 00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,560 Speaker 1: those are the only rules except the one that states, 755 00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:26,120 Speaker 1: if you don't like using your phone to make phone calls, 756 00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:28,600 Speaker 1: why not instead use it to send us an email. 757 00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:52,080 Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff they 758 00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,000 Speaker 1: don't want you to know. Is a production of I 759 00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:57,239 Speaker 1: heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit 760 00:47:57,239 --> 00:48:00,040 Speaker 1: the i heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 761 00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:01,200 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.