Speaker 1: Podcast starts. Now, what's up everyone? You are listening to
Speaker 1: Stradio Lab. We just had a beautiful lunch from Le.
Speaker 2: So here's my question for you. Uh Prette amage and
Speaker 2: which one is Danielle him? Which one is st? Him?
Speaker 1: And which one is You are starting out guns blazing,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm full up on bread and mozzarella, and you're
Speaker 1: saying which French fast casual restaurant is which Heim sister?
Speaker 2: I'm well, Brett is, Danielle is st? I think it's Alana? Really?
Speaker 2: What's the third one of bump Pan? Wait?
Speaker 1: Fuck?
Speaker 2: No, no, Prett Prett.
Speaker 1: I think Alta is prep because like she's more of
Speaker 1: the household name.
Speaker 2: Oh you think so? Yeah? And then is st Yeah,
Speaker 2: and pret is Wait no, Danielle pre bum Pan is
Speaker 2: not one of them?
Speaker 1: What it's prett?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 2: And is one of them? Yeah? Okay, go ahead, go ahead,
Speaker 2: this is really good radio.
Speaker 1: We are us fighting over which Yeah, Danielle okay, s Prett, Danielle, Alana, Alana?
Speaker 2: Okay? That was that? Sorry I did that.
Speaker 1: Well, it's okay. I think it's okay that you do that.
Speaker 1: It's just that you were sort of wrong and aggressive
Speaker 1: throughout you know, we said have the parameters, and then
Speaker 1: I was trying to work with the parameters in you
Speaker 1: that's not right.
Speaker 2: It actually broke my brain so much. I kept I
Speaker 2: kept thinking of them. Penna is not one of them,
Speaker 2: and yet it was. It was the whole time. Isn't
Speaker 2: there a different one? I mean, I'm sure.
Speaker 1: There's a different one. Yeah, but that's the one we
Speaker 1: were working That's.
Speaker 2: The one we were working with. Yeah, okay, okay, Jo
Speaker 2: Juice U Jomba Juice, Joe and the Juice, Joe and
Speaker 2: the Juice, And what's the other one. I love this,
Speaker 2: by the way, this is the best podcasting I've ever
Speaker 2: done my life. No, we can't, we can't. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: I'm going to own up to this. Okay, which time,
Speaker 2: sister is It is my game that I came up with,
Speaker 2: and I'm officially calling it a flop. I think it
Speaker 2: officially is not a good game. I will own up
Speaker 2: to it in the same way that I owned up
Speaker 2: to when I tried to get Fabulosa fury Road trending.
Speaker 2: Well that was fun, Okay, So obviously it's when someone
Speaker 2: looks fab you say you look Fabulosa Fury Road. I
Speaker 2: it has not. I've not gotten a trending. I've not
Speaker 2: gotten anyone else to say it except me, and I
Speaker 2: have to just own up to the fact that that
Speaker 2: is the same with the hind Game. And maybe it
Speaker 2: can just be my private inside joke with myself or
Speaker 2: with my friend Sam, but we have to we have
Speaker 2: to accept when something isn't working.
Speaker 1: I think Fabulosa Fury Road isn't It's not your fault.
Speaker 2: It doesn't work, Okay.
Speaker 1: I think it's the fault of the filmmakers. Yeah, Furiosa
Speaker 1: because it wasn't a big enough hit. I think it
Speaker 1: doesn't have the cultural weight it needs to happen.
Speaker 2: If Furiosa was a bigger hit Fabulosa fuor Road, every
Speaker 2: announcer on E News when they're interviewing people on the
Speaker 2: carpet would say, Okay, she looks fabulous to Fury Road,
Speaker 2: let's look into the Fabulosa cam and let's get that
Speaker 2: shot of you mama. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But unfortunately it did not reach those hypes. Okay, I see,
Speaker 1: And so that's not your fault.
Speaker 2: Okay, time is my fault.
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm we need to unpack what it's not working
Speaker 1: about him. For me, I think what's not working about
Speaker 1: him is that like there's almost something about the game
Speaker 1: that's just like too simple. Yeah, Like Heim is like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like which one's the weird one, which one's the
Speaker 1: the film one, and which one's the brains?
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, and.
Speaker 1: So it's just sort of like too one to one,
Speaker 1: there's not much wonder.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, it's true. And also none of them
Speaker 2: are really like an insult. Like if you're doing fuck
Speaker 2: Mary kill when you get to kill, that's a shocker.
Speaker 2: If I'm saying I'm killing Obumpan, that means I you know,
Speaker 2: they're they're writing me a season desist letter.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But if I'm saying album pen is st him, They're like, okay, okay, weird, quirky.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think it's tough. I Also, this is
Speaker 1: something I've been wondering and I wonder this almost every day,
Speaker 1: which is is our worldview. We think it's so big
Speaker 1: when actually it's small. Do people care about Heim in
Speaker 1: the way that we do?
Speaker 2: This is such a larger question. I mean, I do
Speaker 2: think people care about him. As we've said, they are
Speaker 2: the A twenty four music so I think the same.
Speaker 2: I think people care about how in the way that
Speaker 2: people care about an eight twenty four movie. Sure, so,
Speaker 2: like just like people we know, we know? Yeah, yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: But I also think do you think moms know about him? No?
Speaker 2: I think moms know about Chapel.
Speaker 1: Moms know about Chapel. I think music dads know about how.
Speaker 2: Yeah, music dads know about her.
Speaker 1: Music dads know how.
Speaker 2: And they love Billie Eilish.
Speaker 1: They love to love Billy Iilay music dad's love to
Speaker 1: love Billy Eilish. Yeah, I hmm, okay, if they're a
Speaker 1: twenty four, I'm like, yeah, who's Neon?
Speaker 2: Is Charlie xx Neon? Yes? Because I know her movie
Speaker 2: is a twenty four. Well, it's not literal George of course,
Speaker 2: of course, it's like how Chapel. Yes, well, and she's
Speaker 2: a but you were gonna ask something, yeah, but then
Speaker 2: I forgot Okay.
Speaker 1: But she's the onn incense that she also like swept
Speaker 1: the Oscars this year. Yeah, and you're expect every.
Speaker 2: Year you're like twenty four, but it's always should we
Speaker 2: bring our guests?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I feel like this intro is like one of our
Speaker 1: more flop what Yeah, I'm gonna say it. And and
Speaker 1: for that I apologize to our guests.
Speaker 2: I just want to say I'm having the time of
Speaker 2: my life and I'm embracing my flop era as Jamila
Speaker 2: Jamila one said, welcome, John Marcosires.
Speaker 1: Hello.
Speaker 3: I know I just felt stupid. I felt culturally, uh
Speaker 3: a destitute. I know I couldn't tell you I'm sister's song.
Speaker 3: I've seen picture of them to our dating now.
Speaker 2: The sisters sisters, who's the boy genius are dating?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 3: You see, I don't, it's all a blur.
Speaker 2: I'm actually so happy you're here. Actually I am happier here.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 2: Actually, I'm so happier here because we were just talking
Speaker 2: about how you're a touring comedian that is all around
Speaker 2: this great country road. So you're the perfect person to
Speaker 2: tell us how many people know how in your experience,
Speaker 2: and I actually would love for you, Sorry to cut
Speaker 2: you off, No, I would love for you for I
Speaker 2: would say the next calendar year of your tour to
Speaker 2: mention how I'm at every show of yours and start
Speaker 2: collecting some data.
Speaker 3: I think, in general, comedically, references don't work on the
Speaker 3: road the way they used to because we're so fractured
Speaker 3: as a country period. So you will sooner see comedians
Speaker 3: reference Rainforest Cafe, yes before La Pen. You know, I
Speaker 3: can't do that in Wilmington, North Carolina. They've never heard
Speaker 3: of that. And like truly comedically, unless you build up
Speaker 3: like a niche audience, you cannot have those. Even even
Speaker 3: Sebastian Man of Scalco, Like, so that's the number one
Speaker 3: most paid touring comedian in the country right now or
Speaker 3: last year, you cannot use that as a reference. Seinfeld
Speaker 3: you can. And so that's just that's so interesting, it is,
Speaker 3: I mean, it just it limits the ability to reference
Speaker 3: in a way that like you know, Twitter or something
Speaker 3: else would allow you.
Speaker 1: To in your experience. What year to culture stop?
Speaker 3: God Like, right where I started getting into the arts,
Speaker 3: I have the culture.
Speaker 2: I feel the exact same way. We sort of are
Speaker 2: like in the sinking ship of the Titanic and we're
Speaker 2: trying to reference.
Speaker 1: We're trying to reference time. We're trying to pretend that
Speaker 1: we can talk about. But what you're saying is so
Speaker 1: true and it's scary.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know my big idea, well, this is
Speaker 2: like my big my big joke is we need a
Speaker 2: nationwide it needs to be a top down government mandated.
Speaker 2: This is the new thing everyone's talking about, Like, isn't.
Speaker 3: That what Obama's playlist was trying to be? Essentially? You
Speaker 3: know what, though, it's not that I loved when he
Speaker 3: didn't have he didn't have Beyonce's album and then he
Speaker 3: like issued a correction like, oops, I forgot.
Speaker 2: Okay, here's a question for you. The concept of Obama's
Speaker 2: playlists is that something people would recognize around the country. Oh,
Speaker 2: that's a great question.
Speaker 3: I mean it depends where you're in the country. Some
Speaker 3: people would boo that list, they avoid.
Speaker 2: They would know it exists.
Speaker 3: No, I don't think so. I don't think so.
Speaker 2: First for me, Obama Obama's play is just such a
Speaker 2: thing that like everyone makes fun of every year. Or
Speaker 2: it's like if you're an artist or if you're like
Speaker 2: a novelist, even it makes a huge difference to be
Speaker 2: on his book list.
Speaker 3: They would still the reference you would still use even
Speaker 3: if it doesn't exist anymore. Is over the book club?
Speaker 2: Yes, no, maybe, Okay.
Speaker 1: Trying to road friendly references is like one of the
Speaker 1: darker things you've never done.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so funny.
Speaker 3: It's it's the same with with politics. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 3: it's gotta be someone we've known since the night.
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, here's cute.
Speaker 1: So if you're like doing a joke that has like
Speaker 1: Timothy Chalamer's reference, does that work or do you have
Speaker 1: to stay it?
Speaker 2: Would?
Speaker 3: It would probably work, but certain parts. First of all,
Speaker 3: like I have enough of a fan base now that
Speaker 3: I think, yes, okay, my particular fan base, but like
Speaker 3: and well you're figuring out probably not wow, probably not.
Speaker 3: You know, I'd love I I thought it would be
Speaker 3: so fun. I have like a musical theatery playlist, and
Speaker 3: I slipped in the penis of Vaginas song from Amelia Perez. Yes,
Speaker 3: And I think most people are going, what the fuck
Speaker 3: is going on?
Speaker 2: Jamarco. I can confirm that that's what's happening because I
Speaker 2: have tried to make Amelia Perez happen for so long.
Speaker 2: My favorite thing. I don't know if you've seen the film,
Speaker 2: but I have. Her cat phrase is bingo, and I
Speaker 2: am obsessed with trying to make that the new Fabulosa
Speaker 2: fiy road. And specifically, when Zebesdonia recognized her at the
Speaker 2: Big Dinner party, she's like edisto and then and then
Speaker 2: Amelia goes Bingo and she like whispers it really she's
Speaker 2: an amazing performer in a really really compelling way. And
Speaker 2: I think it's so funny. And no one knows about
Speaker 2: it because guess what, no one has seen to me
Speaker 2: the press. And also no one even knows that Carlos
Speaker 2: fiegoskn was canceled. That is something only we know because
Speaker 2: we're on Twitter.
Speaker 3: That's true too. Whenever someone gets in trouble son Is,
Speaker 3: You're like, there's people who know, they have no idea there,
Speaker 3: there are people seeing Crystalalia still going and they go,
Speaker 3: what happened? I mean, that's truly, that's literally happening. I
Speaker 3: think I wish Amelia Perez it really was. I mean
Speaker 3: it was disastrous, but like it was a it was
Speaker 3: a fascinating I mean the twists and turns. Oh yeah,
Speaker 3: I would love that to be whatever Rocky Horror is
Speaker 3: like like just a real like your or the Room totally.
Speaker 3: You could totally watch it with friends. I'm so happy
Speaker 3: I watch it with my girlfriend. It was so fun.
Speaker 2: It was fun.
Speaker 1: No, I agree, it's so I do think it needs
Speaker 1: to be reordered, though, I was pretty disappointed that the
Speaker 1: penis Vagina song comes so early. I thought that was
Speaker 1: gonna be like the climax song. Yeah, I really, I
Speaker 1: at least needed it to come back. Maybe it's sort
Speaker 1: of a reprise. I thought that would have been nice.
Speaker 3: Know they there are some characters that you would think, oh,
Speaker 3: this is a new main character, I guess, and no,
Speaker 3: you will never hear from them again.
Speaker 2: It's more of a sketch show.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah, this actually really scares me. When I
Speaker 1: learned that people in other places don't know everything that
Speaker 1: I know, it really freaks me out.
Speaker 2: You know what. You know, what would be an incredibly
Speaker 2: difficult job for that very reason is, for example, hosting
Speaker 2: the Oscars because you are It used to be that
Speaker 2: Billy Crystal would reference you know, Shakespeare in Love and
Speaker 2: every single person would understand at least the basics of
Speaker 2: what he's referencing. If you are who, if you're Conan
Speaker 2: and you're referencing Amelia Perez or God Forbid, I'm not
Speaker 2: I'm still here, the Brazilian film. Yeah no, there's no
Speaker 2: who's going to get that. Not God Forbid, the Brazilian film.
Speaker 1: I'm just like, but it's almost it almost becomes like
Speaker 1: a political conversation where you're like, Okay, do we go
Speaker 1: to the center and reference stuff from five years ago
Speaker 1: or do we push forward?
Speaker 3: Because if you want to win or not exactly comic
Speaker 3: or politics, do.
Speaker 2: You then find yourself in the position of being like
Speaker 2: I want to reference on the hurt. They don't know
Speaker 2: what it is. Yeah, yeah, I know, I know, Like
Speaker 2: they don't know what it is. I want to reference it.
Speaker 2: So then you find yourself for ten minutes explaining what
Speaker 2: it is for the sake of lift.
Speaker 3: Like I remember, like I I had something about living
Speaker 3: in Harlem, and like, you know, for some of the
Speaker 3: harm jokes, you have to establish that this was like
Speaker 3: a predominantly black neighborhood, and like you can't go to
Speaker 3: the whole history, but you try to come up with
Speaker 3: like one or two lines that captured, hopefully with a joke,
Speaker 3: and then move on. So you have to like try
Speaker 3: to you know, it's Sonny's References a TV show. I
Speaker 3: have a bit where I talk about I'm really trying
Speaker 3: to talk about how I'm not allowed to take off
Speaker 3: my shirt and soul Cycle, and again it's like so
Speaker 3: many things I have to establish. Not everyone knows what
Speaker 3: spin is, now knows what soul cycle is now everyone
Speaker 3: understands that in some workout spaces you can't take off
Speaker 3: your shirt, and this one you sweat a lot, and
Speaker 3: it's mostly women, and it's like there's all sorts of
Speaker 3: contexts you have to set up. So I'm working on that.
Speaker 2: It is the most coastal, like coastal sort of like
Speaker 2: metrosexual man. Problem not to call you metrosexual, to be
Speaker 2: like touring and be like I want to do a
Speaker 2: joke about soul cycle, but no one knows what soul cycle.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but I have to establish it for people
Speaker 3: who don't understand any of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's spin.
Speaker 3: Where did metrosexual? The term felt like it this disappeared
Speaker 3: to talk.
Speaker 2: About something that you can reference because it was the
Speaker 2: last dregs of monoculture. When people talk, we're talking about metrosexual.
Speaker 3: But I don't know if I would where ASMI as
Speaker 3: because metrosexual seem more like obsessed with appearance and looks.
Speaker 2: I don't think you're a metrosexual. I was trying to
Speaker 2: find like the right word for like whatever coastal sort
Speaker 2: of like liberal man who takes care of himself, who
Speaker 2: would go to sult I.
Speaker 3: Wanted to like start referring to it myself as a fop,
Speaker 3: like a fop like, oh oh, who's the playwright? He
Speaker 3: Oscar while yeah, he would have a fop character and
Speaker 3: it always was like the flamboyant character. But in his
Speaker 3: plays it normally it wasn't necessarily the gay character.
Speaker 2: It was it's like a dandy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, dandy. But still even that, like there's something
Speaker 3: about like appearance that I don't fit. That's not one
Speaker 3: of the things that is uh feminine about me?
Speaker 1: What what would you say?
Speaker 3: Is my my movement, my my mannerism's my.
Speaker 2: A musical theater of musical theater of it all, the
Speaker 2: wanting to be.
Speaker 3: Like, uh, some show fabulous in a way, but it doesn't.
Speaker 3: It doesn't translate to clothes. I've had to work hard
Speaker 3: to like trust better, I've uh, it doesn't translate. I'm
Speaker 3: not a huge like Camp.
Speaker 2: Guy, You're like you like a sincerity I do.
Speaker 3: I'm more I lean towards the musical theater of it all,
Speaker 3: but like Camp, it's always like it's just too much
Speaker 3: for me. I can admire it from Afar.
Speaker 2: But I'm not obsessed with it.
Speaker 3: But I love Liza Minelli and Cabaret like I get,
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, and I want to be you or
Speaker 3: and admire you and every and also make love to
Speaker 3: you too. It's the full spectrum of Wow.
Speaker 2: I do sort of think straight men who are into
Speaker 2: musical theater might save like if our actually I was
Speaker 2: I was going to say the most shocking thing ever,
Speaker 2: which is if we had a straight male president was
Speaker 2: into musical theater, guess what we do that His biggest
Speaker 2: dream was to be a musical theater producer, Like, is
Speaker 2: that true?
Speaker 3: It? He like loves musical theater. He loves cats, He
Speaker 3: loves cats. He wants to bring cats to the Kennedy Center.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no idea, he loves But you saw like.
Speaker 3: They made fun of him at the RNC came out
Speaker 3: and it was light bulbs of Trump, and they compared
Speaker 3: it to Roxy in Chicago. It's a showman. But there's
Speaker 3: so much about anyone in politics. You know, they're all
Speaker 3: wearing so much makeup. You know it might be different
Speaker 3: makeup and highlighting different things, but his makeup sometimes you
Speaker 3: see it and you go, it is crazy that we
Speaker 3: move past this. Why is it ending so brutally at
Speaker 3: the ears?
Speaker 2: No, I do think that was talk about normalization. It's
Speaker 2: like when the makeup was normalized while the policies come next.
Speaker 1: Well, but also if we all, if we keep talking
Speaker 1: about the makeup, then people are going to make fun
Speaker 1: of us. We're talking about the makeup, yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: here and be like, why would you care about the
Speaker 1: makeup when all the stuff is.
Speaker 3: Happening they want to There's just something where I go, like,
Speaker 3: I think some people, if they have a way to
Speaker 3: artistically express themselves, they become a little nicer. Or I
Speaker 3: think I think there's like, you know, pent up sexual attention.
Speaker 3: I think there's like pent up artistic expression, absolutely, and
Speaker 3: it comes out and like.
Speaker 2: We need to go back. Yeah. Well, you know people
Speaker 2: have said that his version of like Hitler being a
Speaker 2: failed artist is being a failed Broadway producer. Like it's
Speaker 2: like if only they had let him, do you know
Speaker 2: Trump the musical of course Trump with a t.
Speaker 3: Look at George Bush. He did all the war crimes
Speaker 3: and now he's a paint exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe that'll be his third act, you know, after
Speaker 2: you know, the entire world is burned to bits, he'll
Speaker 2: erect his own theater and put up cats.
Speaker 3: I think that's what like, I think That's one of
Speaker 3: the things with like AI at the AI art, which
Speaker 3: is like, again talk about a conversation that like online
Speaker 3: online everyone goes like this is terrible if you're making
Speaker 3: an AI right now. It's really I keep seeing on
Speaker 3: Instagram people make themselves an action figure or whatever, and
Speaker 3: online on Twitter at least, it's like, this is vile.
Speaker 3: If you do this, kill yourself. And then I go
Speaker 3: and I look at normal people who go outside and
Speaker 3: read books, and they're all making an action figure themselves
Speaker 3: because it's just cool little thing to do online.
Speaker 2: That is the That's such a perfect example.
Speaker 1: We've been we've been in countering this a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's literally such a tiny niche opinion that it's
Speaker 2: quote unquote evil, which to be clear, I agree with.
Speaker 1: But it is.
Speaker 2: It is literally like it's the equivalent of I don't
Speaker 2: even know, like debating who is gonna win some obscure
Speaker 2: prize in literature, or like to think that chat GBT
Speaker 2: is the average person just uses it to right emails.
Speaker 3: But it's also the obsession with like thinking that art
Speaker 3: is always about the product, yes, and like you know,
Speaker 3: we do it as a business, so it is involved
Speaker 3: in the product because we're ultimately selling it, but for
Speaker 3: so many people it's like, no, the art is the
Speaker 3: process of doing it, and going to quote Sondheim, look
Speaker 3: I made a hat where there never was a hat.
Speaker 3: It's like it's like sometimes people come to shows and
Speaker 3: they draw me while I'm on stage and they show
Speaker 3: it and it's like that's just for them. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: it's hard time. It's for me to think about it
Speaker 3: because every time I mix something I do a dude,
Speaker 3: I'm like, we gotta put this system. You gotta make
Speaker 3: a TV shirt of this. Merch merch, merch. But like
Speaker 3: that's that's the illusion of ais. They go like, well,
Speaker 3: look we can make the product without the work, and
Speaker 3: it's like, no, the work is the whole fucking thing
Speaker 3: for a lot of people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, brother, the a I said is such a bummer
Speaker 1: in a way that I'm like I don't even know
Speaker 1: where to go from there.
Speaker 2: I find it like it'll die.
Speaker 3: It'll like they'll make it so you can you can
Speaker 3: make the Office but instead of Dwight's played by Gabriel Iglesias,
Speaker 3: and you can make it and you'll be like your
Speaker 3: dad will be like I have made this, and you're
Speaker 3: like I'm not gonna watch it. Everyone will make their
Speaker 3: own thing and no one will care, and we'll realize
Speaker 3: that so much of artists, that we're all collectively looking
Speaker 3: at one thing. I hate everyone's talking about how the
Speaker 3: pit is like they're enjoying it being it weekly. I
Speaker 3: hate seasons that drop all at once. I lose it
Speaker 3: and people always go, I actually like it, and I go, yeah,
Speaker 3: you like eating cake for breakfast, and then you wonder
Speaker 3: why life, why every meal is boring you? You don't
Speaker 3: know what you want. And it's the same thing with like, yeah,
Speaker 3: you could make you can make a TV show where
Speaker 3: the office animated to look like they're powerpuff Girls, but
Speaker 3: it's like, who cares. It's about the cultural We all
Speaker 3: agree to look at this one thing, and someone's curated
Speaker 3: that one thing. So I do think it will destroy
Speaker 3: itself to a degree.
Speaker 1: You have to hope. I hope it takes on social
Speaker 1: media with it, and I think it might.
Speaker 3: Or all film and TV and we go back to theater,
Speaker 3: and we all go back to theater.
Speaker 1: That's true.
Speaker 2: I mean, theater is the only answer.
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, kind of, I've actually been having so
Speaker 1: much fun with stand up again and I don't know why,
Speaker 1: but I've been like, oh, finally people are together.
Speaker 2: I went to a play recently and shout out the
Speaker 2: deep blue sound at the public and the final line
Speaker 2: made me start crying, and then I couldn't stop crying.
Speaker 2: And I was like, I think this is my pent up.
Speaker 2: This is literally what being on Instagram all day. All
Speaker 2: my emotions are suppressed because all I'm doing is being
Speaker 2: kind of angry at some random gay guy all day
Speaker 2: every day. And then it's like one sentence that has
Speaker 2: emotional resonance, which if I was just like a normal
Speaker 2: person going to the theater all the time, it would
Speaker 2: be like okay, well, moving on, like time for the area.
Speaker 2: And I hear one sentence has emotional residence and I'm
Speaker 2: like literally breaking down.
Speaker 1: What was the sentence? I've gotta know I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: ruin the fight. Oh, I guess that's true.
Speaker 3: It was what I saw play with with my girlfriend recently,
Speaker 3: and it was like there was a couple fighting and
Speaker 3: the guy said to the woman like, I've.
Speaker 2: Understood you, but you ever understand me?
Speaker 3: And I was like wow. My girlfriend looked at me
Speaker 3: like excuse me, and I didn't I wasn't doing it
Speaker 3: on purpose, but I felt I was like, mm.
Speaker 2: I mean, you just get a directness whatever. Live performances
Speaker 2: is all we have, is basically sure.
Speaker 3: But I did see a I saw a Broadway show
Speaker 3: that I paid way too much for and I felt scammed,
Speaker 3: and I feel I felt a new found no fuck
Speaker 3: the theater actually.
Speaker 2: But it was my fact that's Broadway though, like Broadway,
Speaker 2: there's something the Broadway is literally Trumpian, like Broadway is
Speaker 2: like for the literal zero point one percent, the people
Speaker 2: making it are so completely out of touch.
Speaker 3: I felt for it. I felt for him. But I
Speaker 3: saw I paid a lot to see Augie McDonald and Gypsy,
Speaker 3: and I I that was incredible. I really at the
Speaker 3: when she's loosened and at the end, I mean she
Speaker 3: was just bearing it all. And I it was a close.
Speaker 3: I came to really sobbing in the theater, just like, wow.
Speaker 2: You know those I just saw Burns at Peters in
Speaker 2: the Sondheim review.
Speaker 3: Oh how was it?
Speaker 2: And I mean, listen, it's ultimately like cruise ship vibes,
Speaker 2: but the but the but Bernadette is still Bernadette. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like yes, it's like basically you know, people like
Speaker 2: bringing out one like Barber's chair and doing a song
Speaker 2: from Sweet Todd and then it leaves it and they
Speaker 2: got like a top hat and do another like it's did.
Speaker 3: She do not as Day goes by?
Speaker 2: She did not go by? But she also did.
Speaker 1: Sorry, I can't you're out gigging podcast. I can't contribute
Speaker 1: at all, not at all, not even.
Speaker 2: A little sam isn't.
Speaker 3: William Finn died recently. That broke my heart. I cried
Speaker 3: about that.
Speaker 2: Never heard that name of This is my first time
Speaker 2: hearing that.
Speaker 3: I actually think we can talk about football after this,
Speaker 3: but talk about musical theater references because I have to
Speaker 3: do those on stage.
Speaker 2: Okay, So like what Bernadette like doing musical theater, I had.
Speaker 2: I had a bit that.
Speaker 3: Would reference Liza Minelli and like it would generally it
Speaker 3: would yeah, they do, but like younger people go oh
Speaker 3: from Arrested Development and you go no from Fossy and
Speaker 3: then like I changed it to Liam Michelle for one thing,
Speaker 3: and they all know that they know Liam Michelle from Glee.
Speaker 3: They from Glee and like, but cats, I have a
Speaker 3: joke that ended up using cats and people knew that
Speaker 3: well enough, little shop they know, but you find out
Speaker 3: pretty quick and a lot of musicals don't. Don't pierce that.
Speaker 2: I mean, Hamilton, what would you say, as someone who's
Speaker 2: not a musical person, what musicals bring to mind? Like
Speaker 2: distinct what musicals do I know?
Speaker 1: Basically, Yeah, it's like West Side Story, basically ones of
Speaker 1: their famous movies, West Side Story, Chicago. Sound of Music, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's pretty much.
Speaker 3: Those are old. Yeah, Sound of Music is so old.
Speaker 2: Damn.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I do wonder, you know, looking back fifty years from now,
Speaker 2: what stuff from the twenty tens will have become canonized,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like, what will be the
Speaker 2: sound of me? What will be something that someone can
Speaker 2: confidently reference?
Speaker 1: It's hard to tell, like right now, literally, I'm like
Speaker 1: I can only think of like Goga and Katy Perry
Speaker 1: as like, yeah.
Speaker 2: For example, is the Sunken Place from get Out? Is
Speaker 2: that going to be something that's interest as a concept,
Speaker 2: Like people will still be saying that in the way
Speaker 2: that we say, oh God, like some I don't know,
Speaker 2: reference from a sixties movie like Singing in the Rain
Speaker 2: or something, you know, like.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, that one sounds like that's the but
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't think if you ask my mom, what's the
Speaker 3: sunken place from get out?
Speaker 2: Yeah, total, I don't think she knows.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but she's on her way out of here.
Speaker 2: It's the younger ones we're talking about. Okay. Our first
Speaker 2: segment is called straight and in this segment, we test
Speaker 2: your familiarity with and complicity in straight culture by asking
Speaker 2: you a series of rapid fire questions where you have
Speaker 2: to choose one thing or another thing. You have to
Speaker 2: go with your gut, and the one rule is you
Speaker 2: can't ask any follow up questions about how the game works.
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, wait, sorry, I uh oh Jesus, say what
Speaker 3: you said again?
Speaker 2: That's a followup question.
Speaker 1: It okay, okay, just go okay, Lona del Ray or
Speaker 1: what you say?
Speaker 3: What you say?
Speaker 2: Singing in the rain or putting on the.
Speaker 1: Reds singing in the rain, a Trump impression or a
Speaker 1: Rump inspection Trump.
Speaker 2: Impression, insider trading or outsider.
Speaker 3: Art insider trading, Honey, I'm home.
Speaker 1: Or yummy a bone that's from the perspective of a dog.
Speaker 3: Yummy a bone.
Speaker 2: It's not right, but it's okay. Or getting a full
Speaker 2: bright because you are gay, Getting a full bright because
Speaker 2: you were gay.
Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders at Coachella, or learning Spanish as a fella.
Speaker 3: Bernie Sanders is at Coachella.
Speaker 2: Being proficient in Excel or being carbon efficient take that shell.
Speaker 3: Being proficient in excel.
Speaker 1: Wow. So we rate our guests currently on a scale
Speaker 1: of one to one thousand blades of grass.
Speaker 2: It's named after Lady Gaga song which is just called one. Okay.
Speaker 2: I would say, okay, I think you gave an amazing performance.
Speaker 2: I think the thinking, your performance of thinking was really
Speaker 2: I would say theatrical. I would argue, as well, you
Speaker 2: took did you take off your glasses during.
Speaker 3: I think so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's what we would call a reveal. Yes,
Speaker 2: he said, this is a visual the visual medium, so
Speaker 2: my cameras are on. I would definitely add a few
Speaker 2: points for that. Yeah, I definitely think it is above
Speaker 2: eight hundred.
Speaker 1: I'm going to say nine hundred and one.
Speaker 2: Who maulation, Thank you very question.
Speaker 3: I told my girlfriend, I said, if I don't get
Speaker 3: above nine hundred, I'm gonna walk right out. It used
Speaker 3: to bekin of your teeth. Yeah, I want to see that.
Speaker 3: I want to see Lady Gaga. I don't see a
Speaker 3: lot of concerts. I'm not a concert guy, but but
Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm like, I have the means and the resources.
Speaker 3: I want to see Lady Gaga no matter what on
Speaker 3: this tour.
Speaker 2: You know you're not going to be disappointed.
Speaker 1: You're not disappointed.
Speaker 3: I need the dancing. I need some dancing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's sort of the only one still doing it.
Speaker 3: No, I saw good concert when I was a kid,
Speaker 3: Like that's when I saw I saw Spice Girls, I
Speaker 3: saw Janet Jackson, I saw Pretty Spears early, like like
Speaker 3: the school desks, school desks. No, I mean I do
Speaker 3: have sisters, but that I was the one leading the charge.
Speaker 2: Because I'm like, but this is your musical theater.
Speaker 1: My question is more like socially, like, were you not
Speaker 1: afraid of being made fun of for that?
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't know, like people's interest. They were
Speaker 3: all lame. It was just like a boring private school.
Speaker 3: So there was no real bullying. I saw Spice Girls
Speaker 3: in second grade, and I think there was just too young.
Speaker 3: People weren't like bullying based on straight or gay quite yet.
Speaker 3: But I went on a date in second grade with
Speaker 3: there was a girl I had a crush on, Oh
Speaker 3: my god, and her parents were like horrified. They didn't
Speaker 3: know because it wasn't yet like inappropriate because we were
Speaker 3: second graders. But then they went with my dad who
Speaker 3: was like dating someone which you know, was not part
Speaker 3: of their worldview, and she the rule was she had
Speaker 3: to leave by ten pm or we had to get
Speaker 3: home by ten or something. We left as the Spice
Speaker 3: Girls started the show because they were two hours late,
Speaker 3: of course, and I bowled, I cried and I wept
Speaker 3: because we left the concert as it started because we
Speaker 3: had to get her home in time.
Speaker 1: I'm shocked that you didn't have any shame, to be honest, like.
Speaker 3: In second grade, I fully feel like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, my second grade, I was like, no, I agree.
Speaker 1: I knew what boys liked and what girls liked, and
Speaker 1: I knew I had to be on the boy side.
Speaker 2: But this is actually think something I mean, I don't
Speaker 2: know you that well, but I feel like this is
Speaker 2: something that is very charming about you. Is like the
Speaker 2: musical theater, Like you do just like have interests in
Speaker 2: performance and in theater and yeah or whatever, but it
Speaker 2: does not like.
Speaker 3: My dad didn't have super masculine views though, like he
Speaker 3: doesn't like musical theater, but he was of the disco era,
Speaker 3: and I definitely think like that was a real we're
Speaker 3: just all touching it. I mean he was a hippie
Speaker 3: and disco, so there was a lot okay, So I
Speaker 3: I think he just never I was into wrestling, which
Speaker 3: felt very you know, just everyone's wearing nothing and you're
Speaker 3: into other sports. No, I was terrible at sports. I
Speaker 3: mean we watched football, but I never like was good
Speaker 3: at them or like them. I so I never had
Speaker 3: the pressure from my father. And in second grade, some
Speaker 3: guys liked sports, some guys like Star Wars, but it
Speaker 3: wasn't it hadn't coalesced yet into being a weird to
Speaker 3: a Potomac Maryland near Bethesda, okay and not far from
Speaker 3: DC Okay. So I just must have looked out. I
Speaker 3: imagine there's I just lucked out in terms of my grade,
Speaker 3: not being particularly like dude.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean sometimes sometimes you look out because I
Speaker 1: would always mask anything I liked in my sister.
Speaker 2: But but the thing is, like you you had something
Speaker 2: to hide.
Speaker 3: My sisters and I with Spice Girls. They sold like
Speaker 3: little booklets at like Barnes and Nobles, and for one
Speaker 3: for each Spice Girl, and like we all got one
Speaker 3: and my favorite was baby, and my sister Victoria liked
Speaker 3: Posh because they were similar to not just their name.
Speaker 3: And then my other sister was sporty. And it was like,
Speaker 3: maybe it's because I had sisters and they didn't give
Speaker 3: me shit for it or you know, they were half
Speaker 3: so I saw them half the time, so they didn't
Speaker 3: have time to establish things. But I just kind of
Speaker 3: fit in with them. I watched that Spice movie. I
Speaker 3: had the VHS and there's something I don't know, but
Speaker 3: like the girl Power. I would be heicy Mota and
Speaker 3: I'd kick and I do that. It was just just
Speaker 3: what it was. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that movie is the damn hit.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, it's Alan Comming. Yeah, so early Allen Comming.
Speaker 1: I mean there's alt bits in there that is an alt.
Speaker 3: With the tour bus and it jumps over the bridge.
Speaker 2: Come on, it's fun.
Speaker 3: Does it hold up? Is it fun?
Speaker 1: I watched it maybe three years ago. The bits are
Speaker 1: still funny, but it's longer than you expect.
Speaker 3: And you're like, huh, the alien does the alien touch
Speaker 3: her boob?
Speaker 2: You see?
Speaker 3: But that's like, to me, that's a heterosexual moment. That
Speaker 3: they gave to me and I said, hey, I like
Speaker 3: that part.
Speaker 1: Okay, everybody gets a little early. Yeah, should we do
Speaker 1: the topic?
Speaker 3: Let's do it.
Speaker 1: Please tell us what the straight topic is today and
Speaker 1: what is straight about it?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 3: Weightlifting? We're talk about weightlifting. It's something I've I've dabbled
Speaker 3: in and it definitely feels like a mix. What are
Speaker 3: those territories where it's like, it's it straight, but it's
Speaker 3: but it's but it's gay. It feels like a real
Speaker 3: but it feels like a lot of guys go into weightlifting,
Speaker 3: Like this is a straight space, absolutely, but I think
Speaker 3: a lot of times straight men are looking for like
Speaker 3: a way that they can be physical with each other
Speaker 3: that feels safe from being in weightlifting. Is that spotting?
Speaker 2: Please? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Please?
Speaker 1: Well, I agree, I think it is a very straight space.
Speaker 1: And honestly, spotting is where I'm I'm I'm out. Like
Speaker 1: when someone's like, can you spot me, I'm.
Speaker 3: Like no, no, no, no, no, no no no no, no,
Speaker 3: oh my god, the bars falling out, no no no
Speaker 3: no no.
Speaker 1: When they asked me to stand there, I'm like, you
Speaker 1: don't understand, Like I'm faking, but I don't.
Speaker 2: This is the difference between the straight lifting and gay lift. Like,
Speaker 2: I do think there's something very individualistic about the way
Speaker 2: gay guys do it, which is like, tell me, this
Speaker 2: is my time to make myself hotter so that I
Speaker 2: can go to Fire Island. Yes, And then for straight guys,
Speaker 2: they're all like having such a good time and are
Speaker 2: there together and are like, you know, sharing tips online, yeah, podcasts.
Speaker 3: I went to Fire Island for a day. Jay Jorden
Speaker 3: brought me around.
Speaker 2: He was like, look the gym.
Speaker 3: Upon arrival was the funniest thing I've ever seen in
Speaker 3: my life. Just the idea of like some last minute
Speaker 3: cramming before you go to the parties, and like it's
Speaker 3: not it doesn't smell great, it's and it's like a
Speaker 3: rough if you're going on that treadmill, just go back
Speaker 3: to Manhattan, Like you're not solving it on that treadmill
Speaker 3: for thirty minutes, and it just it was just awful
Speaker 3: conditions to work out. I would have to be so
Speaker 3: so desperate.
Speaker 1: Well, when you're there for a week, sometimes you gotta
Speaker 1: pop in for a minute.
Speaker 3: You've done that, You've popped in.
Speaker 1: Last year, I popped in for the first time because honestly,
Speaker 1: it started to feel like, okay, well I'm the only
Speaker 1: one not popping in, so everyone else is like gets
Speaker 1: a little pump in for the day, and meanwhile I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm on vacation. And then they're all like, where's his pump?
Speaker 3: Huh?
Speaker 2: So I said, you know what, you can't beat him
Speaker 2: joining up?
Speaker 3: Did you do a do you do a hard workout?
Speaker 1: Just get a light little sweater, a light sweat you sure, sure,
Speaker 1: just make sure it's all engaged.
Speaker 2: I okay. So in terms of weightlifting being straight, because
Speaker 2: I do think this is such a like rich topic.
Speaker 2: At the most basic level, you are trying to make
Speaker 2: yourself larger, which is of course like taking up space.
Speaker 2: So that's like just thinking very like basic. Okay, you're
Speaker 2: trying to make yourself larger, and you're trying to make
Speaker 2: yourself look more like a statue of a man, like
Speaker 2: you are trying to be more man, and you are
Speaker 2: trying to be large. Okay, So that's one thing. Something
Speaker 2: that's complicated about it is like if sports are straight,
Speaker 2: there's something about lifting that's almost like skipping the middleman
Speaker 2: of doing anything that's useful. Like in the olden days
Speaker 2: you would get buff by like doing manual labor and
Speaker 2: or playing sports, so you would be doing something that
Speaker 2: had some sort of other value, whether you're adding value
Speaker 2: to society or you're adding or you have like camaraderie
Speaker 2: and the athletics ya, And to do lifting is very shortcut,
Speaker 2: and in that sense it's also straight because it is like,
Speaker 2: you know, it's like insider trading, Like it's like skipping,
Speaker 2: skipping the step of doing more complex work to get
Speaker 2: to the direct result that you want. Yeah, but it's
Speaker 2: also gay to not play sports and want to get up,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Well, buff for gay guys is like a reaction. It's
Speaker 1: like it's a it's a way to sort of like
Speaker 1: reclaim being made fun of as a child. Yeah, Whereas
Speaker 1: like for straight guys, there's not like a it's not
Speaker 1: necessarily reaction as much as it's just.
Speaker 2: Like, well, I do want to be bigger. For gay guys,
Speaker 2: it is so tied up with like issues around masculinity
Speaker 2: and reacting to being called effeminate or being called girlish
Speaker 2: and being like, well, I'll show you I'll become even
Speaker 2: bigger than the man.
Speaker 1: There's something about a gym feeling like a straight space
Speaker 1: where you're like whenever I walk into a gym for
Speaker 1: the first time, I'm like, Okay, everyone here is straight,
Speaker 1: and then if you're good there for like a few months,
Speaker 1: you're like, Okay, actually only those two guys are yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: because everyone's kind of pretending in a really weird way.
Speaker 3: I just think, I mean, at least going to like that.
Speaker 3: There's one party at Fire Island where I was like, oh,
Speaker 3: it feels it was like everyone was the exact same
Speaker 3: body type, and I thought, man, I don't I can't
Speaker 3: imagine the social dynamics with this, just dealing with that
Speaker 3: on top of everything else. It's like when you see
Speaker 3: a picture and it's like twenty guys on Fire Island
Speaker 3: and they all have a six pack. I'm like, if
Speaker 3: one of you goes through depression, do they make you
Speaker 3: take the picture? Like where where? Where are you? Like?
Speaker 3: Or is there a different party? It was and I
Speaker 3: and I was I was in a good place when
Speaker 3: I went to this party. I was, I felt, I
Speaker 3: felt I belonged. It was very I noticed at this
Speaker 3: party there was someone who was like by all means
Speaker 3: in good shape, but slightly uh, not as cut as
Speaker 3: everyone else At the party and he was like the
Speaker 3: kind of silly one there.
Speaker 2: And he was like, welcome to our life.
Speaker 3: But there's somebody because I was like, you're in fantastic shape,
Speaker 3: it says everyone else is as is here Cody from
Speaker 3: the uh A Peloton is here, Like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's pastcast on this podcast.
Speaker 3: Yeah he said hi, And all I said was a
Speaker 3: big fan And it just felt like the light left design. Ah,
Speaker 3: I should have And I was like, oh, you love
Speaker 3: my spin material. Yeah, he I wouldn't have to explain
Speaker 3: it to you.
Speaker 1: Also, you're right, they do make you take the picture.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And what you're describing about being the silly one,
Speaker 2: it's I mean, it is the you know, it is
Speaker 2: the gig equivalent of like the very sexist trope of
Speaker 2: like the there's like a group of girls and there
Speaker 2: was like the one ugly one and and but the
Speaker 2: thing was like.
Speaker 3: This ugly one was like truly, of course, if he
Speaker 3: was straight, he'd be the fucking every guy be like, fuck,
Speaker 3: he's so with shape?
Speaker 1: Yeah, what is what is okay?
Speaker 2: Weightlifting?
Speaker 1: I agree with this idea. The weightlifting is straight, but
Speaker 1: it is an interesting difference where it's not having having
Speaker 1: a perfect body isn't straight, Like the goal to have
Speaker 1: a perfect body is not the same in straight culture
Speaker 1: whereas like but.
Speaker 3: But it's a different kind of perfect body. It's like
Speaker 3: I feel like with straight guys. I mean, I don't
Speaker 3: know if like professional weightlifting. I saw like the Arnold
Speaker 3: Swarzenegger documentary, and you see like those dudes, and I'm
Speaker 3: sure some of them are gay, but like Arnold seems
Speaker 3: pretty straight. But there's still is this like he likes
Speaker 3: the male body. I'm sure he went to guys and
Speaker 3: they go leves flex flex, let me feel, and I'm
Speaker 3: sure if they could lick they would too. But like
Speaker 3: some there's something I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's just it's you.
Speaker 3: You you like the male body. Like sometimes I think
Speaker 3: you can like like in my male body, but because
Speaker 3: you like you, like I want that body. I want
Speaker 3: to be that body. And that isn't necessarily sexual in
Speaker 3: the same way wanting to have sex with someone, but
Speaker 3: it is sexual.
Speaker 1: Well, this is that classic thing where like it goes
Speaker 1: back to even straight guys can jerk off with each
Speaker 1: other and it's just male bonding, but they never invite
Speaker 1: gay guys to jerk off with them.
Speaker 3: So I actually First of all, I've never jerked off
Speaker 3: with another guy.
Speaker 2: You are too bays to go in that Spice Girls concert.
Speaker 3: Are a lot of straight guys saying this.
Speaker 2: That's the high school, middle school thing of like straight
Speaker 2: guys all drinking off together. Yeah, okay, so so you
Speaker 2: went to a different kind of non apotomac Okay. So
Speaker 2: I do think much like the there's something about something
Speaker 2: being so gay that it's just straight. And I think
Speaker 2: bodybuilding is one of those things. Like bodybuilding, if you
Speaker 2: think about it, it's literally men getting oiled up and posing.
Speaker 2: That's like something out of a gay guy's imagination. And
Speaker 2: yet because it's so far in that direction, it like
Speaker 2: transcends sexuality and becomes a completely straight thing or something,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: Isn't kind of like when when when a gay guy
Speaker 3: is getting in shape or buff. I mean, it's per
Speaker 3: the fire Island point, like is in part of it like,
Speaker 3: oh this is really going to change my sexual life.
Speaker 3: There's a lot more people who are going to want
Speaker 3: to hook up, and and for some there's more open relationships. Sure,
Speaker 3: certainly with like a guy. It doesn't always feel like
Speaker 3: the weightlifting is necessarily too attract the opposite gender. I
Speaker 3: mean a lot of times they're in a relationship, it
Speaker 3: really is about them. Sex isn't as much a part
Speaker 3: of wanting to do it. I've always thought of I
Speaker 3: was like a gay guy, especially open relationship, like I'd
Speaker 3: be motivated to like work even because it would it
Speaker 3: would kind of it would change the whole dynamic. It's
Speaker 3: shape has no effect on my interpersonal life.
Speaker 2: It's a more feminine impulse. For It's like putting on
Speaker 2: makeup for gamment, yes, whereas for straight men it is. Uh,
Speaker 2: it's like health, health oriented.
Speaker 3: Health oriented and for the for other other guys, but
Speaker 3: in a different way, not for sex, but just like.
Speaker 2: It's competition, competition, sexual competition.
Speaker 3: In bonding, something to like relate about and and again
Speaker 3: to like be able to engage physically. I think there's
Speaker 3: just like the desire to engage physically but still feel
Speaker 3: like you're you're straight or it doesn't. It feels like
Speaker 3: structured so you're allowed to do that. I just I
Speaker 3: don't know. It goes back to sports too. I feel
Speaker 3: like I had have friend he played soccer, and I
Speaker 3: remember once I hung out with him after college. He
Speaker 3: played soccer at Stanford and we were going out one
Speaker 3: night to like a club nightmare night for me. We
Speaker 3: went to like one of their houses. They all were
Speaker 3: on the soccer team together, and this guy took a
Speaker 3: shower all in his room and he like came out
Speaker 3: and he was naked. And these are all these are
Speaker 3: straight guys. I am gay there and this guy is naked,
Speaker 3: and you know, these are the guys just went locker
Speaker 3: in the locker room for this whole time. And this
Speaker 3: guy's naked and he's just standing there kind of like
Speaker 3: talking and just we were in his room, but he's
Speaker 3: naked for a massively long amount of time. And I
Speaker 3: thought in that moment, I was like, I've been to
Speaker 3: six musical theater sleep boy camps, I've had I've had
Speaker 3: gay friends, I've had gay roommates. What we are doing
Speaker 3: right now is the most erotic thing I have ever
Speaker 3: been a part of in my entire life. And these
Speaker 3: guys would never would never think of themselves think of
Speaker 3: it as homosexual at all.
Speaker 2: Were they addressing it?
Speaker 3: No, he was just he was just he was And
Speaker 3: he wasn't like standing like I'd be sitting like he
Speaker 3: was standing kind of like a statue. I always think
Speaker 3: like when guys get so worked up about a gay
Speaker 3: a gay person in the locker room, like with with
Speaker 3: football or whatever. I think it's because it acknowledges that
Speaker 3: what they're doing is kind of erotic showering together, and
Speaker 3: so if someone there who wants to fuck to go,
Speaker 3: he just wants to fuck us, it's like, well, you're there,
Speaker 3: you're slapping each other's asses. But it's it's the threat.
Speaker 3: It's all just a thought experiment that they've established that
Speaker 3: this is not gay, and it's like, maybe it's not gay,
Speaker 3: but it's erotic. It is erotic almost.
Speaker 2: So what you're afraid of is not that the gay
Speaker 2: guy in the locker room is going to hit on you.
Speaker 2: What you're afraid of is that you're gonna be attracted
Speaker 2: to him. Sure, it's like if you're holding a baby,
Speaker 2: you're not afraid of dropping it. You're afraid you're gonna
Speaker 2: accidentally like throw it. Like it's like you're confronting part
Speaker 2: a part of yourself that you have suppressed.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but so yeah, I think I think that's what
Speaker 3: weightlifting is just another form of like and some guys
Speaker 3: love it. Good for them, God bless.
Speaker 1: What about grunting? M grunting while lifting.
Speaker 3: If you really push yourself straight.
Speaker 1: I've never felt the need to grunt.
Speaker 2: I sometimes sometimes it happens by accident, and I feel
Speaker 2: so humiliated.
Speaker 3: I know, but that's how you know you're working hard. Yes,
Speaker 3: I there's overdoing it. There's there's performative grunting.
Speaker 2: No, but I do think, like sometimes it comes out?
Speaker 2: Does it never come out for you? Not once?
Speaker 1: Really I'm silent.
Speaker 2: Oh, I have to like focus in order to be silent,
Speaker 2: because by default I will be like, like.
Speaker 3: I curse I like really, I love to curse. I
Speaker 3: When I was doing why did you Zoom? Workouts during COVID,
Speaker 3: there was one time that my roommate was like, you
Speaker 3: gotta chill it out because I'd be like fuck yeah, fuck,
Speaker 3: and he was like you can't. You can't do that.
Speaker 3: And I had to learn. I had to learn.
Speaker 2: Wow was it hard to learn?
Speaker 3: It was hard to learn. I'm I'm a night between
Speaker 3: the singing practice and the grunting and the I'm a noisy.
Speaker 2: Tough, tough room tough. I mean, I do think occurred
Speaker 2: just naturally a performer, the grunting comes out more not
Speaker 2: to say that you're not perform. It's interesting. I think
Speaker 2: another straight thing about lifting is also the like self
Speaker 2: optimization element of it, Like you are, it's very Silicon
Speaker 2: valley like, well, it has been.
Speaker 1: Co opted by this type right now and sort of
Speaker 1: this like techie even manospheri ish type, which I don't
Speaker 1: know how. This is the other thing of sort of
Speaker 1: talking about time. You know, this is that manosphere tech
Speaker 1: guy stuff is sort of some guy's heime and I
Speaker 1: can never tell.
Speaker 2: How it is.
Speaker 3: I mean, it was enough to win an election, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean. But like, but like I as
Speaker 3: soon as I see videos for these man camps, like it.
Speaker 2: Keeps up where it's like a guy being yelled at.
Speaker 1: I've seen this stuff.
Speaker 3: They're being yelled at, but they're also journaling and they're
Speaker 3: also I'm like, I'm like, this is I don't judge
Speaker 3: it because I go I went to acting camp. These
Speaker 3: guys did not get this. They never got to do
Speaker 3: the artist's way. And if we can rebrand the Artist's
Speaker 3: way for straight guys and just change the cover and
Speaker 3: be like the real Roseway. Yeah, the dudes, the dudes
Speaker 3: Dude's journey, like they there's something where it's almost like
Speaker 3: a horseshoe theory in terms of like sexuality or femininity.
Speaker 3: It's like they're going so far here that suddenly they're
Speaker 3: in groups together journaling and talking about their feelings. And
Speaker 3: You're like, if we can bring it all the way,
Speaker 3: you'll understand that that you just have not been given
Speaker 3: a space in society to express yourself. And those those camps,
Speaker 3: I look at them and I'm like, this is theater
Speaker 3: camp for men in their fifties.
Speaker 2: Yeah. My fear is that they think the reason they
Speaker 2: haven't been given space to journal is because of feminism,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Sure, Like because I it's
Speaker 2: almost like everyone of all political stripes can agree on
Speaker 2: the problem that there's a christ some vaguely defined crisis
Speaker 2: of masculinity. Then it's like either you look at that
Speaker 2: in the right wing way or where you're like, well,
Speaker 2: the reason is because women are you know, taking have
Speaker 2: taken them down and don't allow them to flourish, or
Speaker 2: you look at it from like the opposite perspective, which
Speaker 2: is like patriarchy also affects men.
Speaker 3: And we'll look at Jordan Peterson. Jordan Peterson, He's like
Speaker 3: he's like crying all the time, and I look at him.
Speaker 3: I'm like, how are you part of the manisphere?
Speaker 2: You were the most plain, bullyant suits totally.
Speaker 3: You're sobbing And I go like, they're the key is
Speaker 3: in there somewhere, And unfortunately it's's hard because you know,
Speaker 3: those guys will see on Twitter someone go, men are
Speaker 3: trash and and they're so emotionally vulnerable they could fuck you.
Speaker 3: I'm going to man camp.
Speaker 2: I know it's tough.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean when you do it like that, I'm
Speaker 1: almost like, well, actually, now, I like I like the
Speaker 1: man camps, then everyone should go.
Speaker 3: But maybe that's what happens. It's like at the end
Speaker 3: of the man camp, the council goes. Just so you know,
Speaker 3: this was actually gay camp. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was liberal the whole time.
Speaker 3: Liberal the whole time.
Speaker 2: That peoples off the mask and it's a mask, get
Speaker 2: them at their most vulnerable and then screen moonstruck.
Speaker 3: Yeah you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that says something as simple as that.
Speaker 1: I actually think the idea that everyone just needs to
Speaker 1: go to acting camp and like embarrassing to shame and
Speaker 1: bring them down, Like absolutely that's true.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's basically what.
Speaker 3: We all need.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because we get a little scab on us.
Speaker 2: When we don't do that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's something Sometimes I look back in it and
Speaker 3: I go, like I should have learned skills, and then
Speaker 3: I go, but then then I'd be longing for that thing.
Speaker 3: Now it's like I got it. I needed that when
Speaker 3: I was at that age.
Speaker 2: No, I completely agree. I wish I had gotten to
Speaker 2: acting camp. Do you know what's interesting about lifting is
Speaker 2: via the manisphere of via Silicon Valley whatever. Now it's
Speaker 2: like Mark Zuckerberg and Jeff Bezos are rip Yeah, that
Speaker 2: is a big shift that has happened in this generation.
Speaker 2: Like Steve Jobs and Bill Gates were not ripped. I
Speaker 2: will say being ripped is starting to be meaningless.
Speaker 1: Yeah, in a weird way. It's because you can just
Speaker 1: do it, like you can just buy.
Speaker 3: But it has it has cultural cachet. I mean like
Speaker 3: it does whenever people whenever RFK comes out with something crazy,
Speaker 3: they go, but look at him, that's looks pretty fit
Speaker 3: at seventy whatever, and so like that's that's why I
Speaker 3: think they get into it. I think you're right, Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's it's a new it's I think it's just a
Speaker 3: little bit new and yeah, and and that's why it's
Speaker 3: it's a straight I mean, you know, Jeff Bezis, that's
Speaker 3: that's a straight that's a straight guy for sure. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's a straight man.
Speaker 2: Same with Mark, Yeah, yeah, Mark, Mark. I wonder if
Speaker 2: it's also almost a reaction to people privileging intellect too much.
Speaker 2: It's almost like lifting work on your is like the
Speaker 2: people's reading. Like for so long we we gave attention
Speaker 2: to people that were smart and to people who had
Speaker 2: like done who had like done intellectual work. Well then
Speaker 2: it was money, then it was money, and now but
Speaker 2: there was something. I guess what I'm trying to say
Speaker 2: is that there's something like populist about lifting because like
Speaker 2: anyone can do it, whereas not everyone can like go
Speaker 2: to Harvard.
Speaker 1: It is, but at the same time that's a that's
Speaker 1: a myth too.
Speaker 2: Yeah of course the money, the trainers and god, the food,
Speaker 2: the okay, sure, yeah, it just is a new sign
Speaker 2: of wealth. Yeah, I guess it's in your sign of wealth,
Speaker 2: but it's in your sign of both. With the when
Speaker 2: the goal is to look like what the stereotype of
Speaker 2: like a non rich manual laborer would have looked like
Speaker 2: like a different era. Like it's just very confusing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it can be like passionless, like or just
Speaker 3: like it's like for your point of like, it's it's
Speaker 3: kind of skipping the usefulness of the camaraderie. It's just
Speaker 3: like you go into a factory and they'll eventually be
Speaker 3: able to, you know, just pump you with fake stuff.
Speaker 3: And people getting Brazilian butt lifts but biceps totally totally
Speaker 3: dudes getting bicep lifts.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean too, I do wonder what shortcuts are
Speaker 2: happening that we don't know about.
Speaker 3: Well talk to me. I mean the steroids is one
Speaker 3: where I'm like, I would I would never unless the
Speaker 3: only time I could see And again this is this
Speaker 3: is a I feel like seeing the movie Bros. Is
Speaker 3: why I kind of was like, was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: that's how that's how all these guys are looking like this.
Speaker 2: Of course I respected that that was part of that
Speaker 2: was part of that movie.
Speaker 1: I respected it. I did feel like in the movie
Speaker 1: I was confused because it was introduced and sort of like, well,
Speaker 1: how do you think I got this body? And then
Speaker 1: it was like never talked about it.
Speaker 3: Yes, I just like that line what are you training
Speaker 3: for the war? And there's something about that Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2: It is this weird, sort of dark part of it
Speaker 2: all that everyone agrees not to talk about.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but even even like Arnold Schwarzenegger, like he on
Speaker 3: the documentary was saying like, yeah, we did steroids. Yeah,
Speaker 3: So it's just it is something people need to be
Speaker 3: more honest about. That guy. There was some guy. He
Speaker 3: eats like raw meat. He's a he's another personality but
Speaker 3: part of sort of manosphere Jason, and it was it
Speaker 3: was exposed that he was using a lot of steroids
Speaker 3: and he kind of got I haven't seen him in
Speaker 3: a while. I think he really was hurt from him.
Speaker 3: But he was wealthy as fuck. But I would I
Speaker 3: don't think I would.
Speaker 2: I would do it.
Speaker 3: I don't think I would.
Speaker 1: No, I whatever happened to average folks?
Speaker 2: When someone looks normal.
Speaker 3: Whatever it happened to average? That's the book.
Speaker 2: Sam fetishizes average Average.
Speaker 3: But do you do you accept average into your life
Speaker 3: as well?
Speaker 2: I think I do.
Speaker 1: I mean I work out enough, but I don't like
Speaker 1: hone in and like really get specific with it.
Speaker 3: There's there. I do think you can you get to
Speaker 3: an age where you're like when you see people who
Speaker 3: are you know, extremely fit or extremely this unless they
Speaker 3: were genetically blessed. That usually means they're a nightmare human being.
Speaker 3: It's any any like good thing about me. It's like
Speaker 3: it is an indicator that I I my whole every day.
Speaker 3: Every day, I'm fucking obsessed with this thing.
Speaker 1: I have something that it's it's just pivot slightly and
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if it's a good pivot or not,
Speaker 1: but I want to try it. The gender at the
Speaker 1: in the weight room, I feel like there is a
Speaker 1: war happening of like like part of the manisphere of
Speaker 1: stuff in a weight room is like being mad at women,
Speaker 1: like being either like dressing too suggestively or like I
Speaker 1: feel like I see like there's like all these videos
Speaker 1: of like proper etiquette or like this girl was mad
Speaker 1: at this guy for looking at her while lifting weights,
Speaker 1: but actually that guy is mad at that girl. And
Speaker 1: it's like there's like this thing happening where there's like
Speaker 1: this culture clash in a weight room.
Speaker 3: There's just a regressiveness in the country right now, and
Speaker 3: you feel it as like we're reintroducing conversations of like
Speaker 3: like does a woman's body count matter? And you're like, god, damn,
Speaker 3: I guess I guess. I guess things don't just arc
Speaker 3: to ord's being more. It goes back. Things go backwards,
Speaker 3: way back.
Speaker 2: This has been one of my biggest My biggest This
Speaker 2: has been one of one of my biggest realizations that
Speaker 2: I've had over the last few years. Is like, this
Speaker 2: is both bad and comforting. Is just like realizing how
Speaker 2: things come in waves, like just realizing like the conversations
Speaker 2: about quote unquote wokeism and DEI are the same exact
Speaker 2: conversations that were happening about political correctness and affirmative action
Speaker 2: in the nineties, just with different terms. And obviously it
Speaker 2: doesn't make it any better because people are still being
Speaker 2: hurt by the consequences of you know, legislation, et cetera.
Speaker 2: But it almost having the context almost gives you some
Speaker 2: sort of peace of mind that it will eventually swing
Speaker 2: back in the other direction or something.
Speaker 3: Sure, you hope, you hope, unless unless you know, technology
Speaker 3: is able to solidify move but probably not. I think
Speaker 3: things do shift, but it's it's alarming. I think it
Speaker 3: says shocking to witness. Sometimes people pretend and I don't know,
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's not good, you know what both me out on
Speaker 1: the most about it is that because it comes in waves,
Speaker 1: that means like twenty fourteen is like the peak, Like
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen is literally like nineteen seventy five, like everything
Speaker 1: was crazy, nothing made sense, and like that's like what
Speaker 1: we the dream will be that we returned to twenty fourteen.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, but I wasn't content there, No, I
Speaker 1: wanted more.
Speaker 3: Sure, But don't you think like, like there also is
Speaker 3: a weird fraction though, where I feel like the media
Speaker 3: of Hollywood entertainment it's still pretty gay and progressive, even
Speaker 3: if the country's going backwards. And that's why I don't like,
Speaker 3: how is this happening that that like how is Lil
Speaker 3: nas X like still so popular? But then parts of
Speaker 3: the country are like fully pivoting back to you know,
Speaker 3: let's let's revisit a conversion therapy.
Speaker 2: I don't think is as popular now as when it
Speaker 2: first came out. Well this, I really do. I really
Speaker 2: do think that's true lilas X when Old Town Road
Speaker 2: came out, Like I don't know if that effect could
Speaker 2: happen now. There's something that's like, yeah, the way that
Speaker 2: people were able to be like.
Speaker 1: Oh, how fun.
Speaker 2: I understand that they were also detractors at the time,
Speaker 2: but like generally speaking, people were embraced it. I don't
Speaker 2: know if that would happen right now.
Speaker 3: It was interesting, who who's the who's the guy? Yeah, Coachella,
Speaker 3: he's saying Queen, He's singing Boheman Rhapsody.
Speaker 1: Is this Benson Boone?
Speaker 3: Benson Boone? Yeah, And it's just like you look at
Speaker 3: it and you go especially when he's singing Queen, where
Speaker 3: you're like, Freddy Mercury was was was as was gay
Speaker 3: And it's kind of like every time they play that song,
Speaker 3: every time a straight guy sings Boheman rhaps City at
Speaker 3: a karaoke bar, I want them to put up that
Speaker 3: picture of Freddie Mercury lying down with like nine guys
Speaker 3: that look just like him with the exact same mustache,
Speaker 3: Like that should have to play. You read the lyrics
Speaker 3: over that picture, just to confront, just to confront, Oh
Speaker 3: this this, I'm connected to this.
Speaker 2: There is something so incredible about Benson Boone because it
Speaker 2: is just like complete contextless reference. Like it's just like
Speaker 2: I don't know jumpsuit, I don't know mustache.
Speaker 1: It's also my least, my least favorite thing. We're just like,
Speaker 1: look how good I can sing, and it's like.
Speaker 3: I really can sing so good it's incredible. But but
Speaker 3: I just it's more just like I wish I wish
Speaker 3: you could. It's I wish people could see or had
Speaker 3: to be confronted with the fact that like this is
Speaker 3: or this came from gay culture because somebody straight people
Speaker 3: enjoy this stuff in a way. That's that's that's I mean,
Speaker 3: maybe behaven rhaps that you should have added one lyric
Speaker 3: about sucking cock just to make people like have to
Speaker 3: go like, oh yeah, well, I mean, not to.
Speaker 1: Be the most obvious point about this, but the full
Speaker 1: y mc A song being Trump's and of course it's
Speaker 1: it's like the craziest thing and he like it's about
Speaker 1: like jerking off guys. That's the fucking why it like
Speaker 1: is crazy.
Speaker 3: I don't know how.
Speaker 2: I don't know how.
Speaker 3: I don't know how, But that's why that's the thing
Speaker 3: where like for your point of like, it can never
Speaker 3: go that far one way because I'm at the end
Speaker 3: of the day, this is this is baked in, whether
Speaker 3: you talk about it or not, it's baked in. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's just whether people are allowed to be public with
Speaker 3: what they are or not, but they're always there.
Speaker 2: No, I see what you're saying. It's more like the
Speaker 2: public narratives are coming waves, but the reality stays the same. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Like the things that are more socially accepted versus not
Speaker 2: socially accepted come in waves, and the overton window is
Speaker 2: like getting bigger and smaller, and like the things you
Speaker 2: are allowed to quote unquote sound TV change, it's the
Speaker 2: same way where they go, like more people are by
Speaker 2: and they go, oh, it's it's so too theater camp.
Speaker 3: Go to theater camp. I'm telling you, go to theater camp.
Speaker 1: You know, you literally can have like a business like
Speaker 1: getting straight guys in touch with their feminine say.
Speaker 3: But I think that we have to do is it's gradual,
Speaker 3: like you advertise it like man camp, and at the end,
Speaker 3: by the end, suddenly they realize they're like they're in
Speaker 3: catsuit singing and they're like, oh my god, I like this.
Speaker 2: Not to put you on the spot, but don't you
Speaker 2: think that, like you are a man. That is an
Speaker 2: alternative to toxic male comedians.
Speaker 3: To a degree, But I don't. I don't want to
Speaker 3: like be on any kind of high and I should
Speaker 3: about that. But I'm in an awkward position. No, no, no,
Speaker 3: I certainly think like I have a fan base that
Speaker 3: is like, you know, it's it's it's gay, and it's
Speaker 3: trans and it's not binary and it's and it's guys
Speaker 3: like me who just.
Speaker 2: Like are sure, but it's also women who are like, oh,
Speaker 2: look a good man, like for sure.
Speaker 3: I think it's certainly in the sense of like, uh,
Speaker 3: whether it be sexual orientation or gender expression. I'm I'm
Speaker 3: a friendly voice in a in a comedic world that
Speaker 3: is like uses that as an easy punching bag joke,
Speaker 3: but it can also be tough because as you talk
Speaker 3: about comedy, like I have jokes that are like I
Speaker 3: have a joke about how you know women be shopping
Speaker 3: was like an old thing, but sometimes I'm out with
Speaker 3: my girlfriend shopping and I'm like, they really do be,
Speaker 3: and it's like it's sometimes it's like how do you
Speaker 3: the needle I try to thread is like how do
Speaker 3: I express that? Sometimes I do recognize this as some
Speaker 3: kind of stereotype being true versus not and and also
Speaker 3: like I like mean comedy and I'm sure that will
Speaker 3: get me in trouble to someday, but like, sometimes you know,
Speaker 3: I'll be talking to it'll be like a crowd work
Speaker 3: and it's a nineteen year old and they tell me
Speaker 3: they just came out as non binary, and it's like,
Speaker 3: how can I joke with them in a way that
Speaker 3: is not babying. I don't want to be like everyone,
Speaker 3: let's all cheer down and forget the comedy and feel good.
Speaker 3: And it's navigating that. And I'm sure the reason I
Speaker 3: never want to get a high horse is because I
Speaker 3: know eventually I'll do something where someone will go, oh,
Speaker 3: that was mean or that joke.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: I was at a college and it was like doing
Speaker 3: crowd work with someone and they were talking about the
Speaker 3: roommates were hooking up, and at first I thought the
Speaker 3: roommates were gay and they didn't want to be in
Speaker 3: the room with them, and they said the roommate was
Speaker 3: non binary. I think the joke, you know, speed of
Speaker 3: the moment. It's like instead of sixty nine, ing, do
Speaker 3: they zero? And it's like I can see a world
Speaker 3: where someone goes, fuck you, non binary people can sixty nine,
Speaker 3: and I'll be like, yes, of course they can. It's
Speaker 3: it's just it's a playoff the word non and uh.
Speaker 3: But I also think like that's I think that is
Speaker 3: important in terms of like, I think a lot of
Speaker 3: a lot of leftist momentum, progressive momentum got stymied by
Speaker 3: by a lack of sense of humor. And it's hard
Speaker 3: because if you let people make jokes, a lot of
Speaker 3: guys in a toxic siety and women to go back
Speaker 3: to the most baseline homophobic jokes. But if you police
Speaker 3: people in an annoying way, they just write you off
Speaker 3: and they get annoyed. And so I do think there
Speaker 3: has to be a way forward with mean humor, which
Speaker 3: people do long for and like you have. In order
Speaker 3: for aggressive things to go for, you have to show
Speaker 3: people you can play ball, you can be a fucking ass,
Speaker 3: So you can make a dark joke. But it's tough
Speaker 3: with the balance, you know, it's but I think that's
Speaker 3: an interesting comedic space to navigate, and I want to
Speaker 3: be you know, people use the term funny is funny
Speaker 3: to like justify shitty behavior, But I do believe that
Speaker 3: if you keep funny as your guiding light and you
Speaker 3: are of an open heart, you will ultimately make good
Speaker 3: work that isn't hateful, but it does it can be mean. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and some people won't like it, and the Internet will
Speaker 3: allow it to be collectivised in a way that feels.
Speaker 3: But you can't become obsessed because for all the points
Speaker 3: we said earlier, it's a small contingency.
Speaker 2: That's the thing. And I think that's like the biggest
Speaker 2: thing I'm realizing. There was a brief period where canceling
Speaker 2: became mainstream, and that was basically a year and a half,
Speaker 2: and then since then and we were all on the
Speaker 2: internet cover times, and but since then, people have maintained
Speaker 2: the fear of cancelation.
Speaker 3: I say that all the time that right now, SOI
Speaker 3: comedians that literally still exists in that space and they're like,
Speaker 3: can you cut this on the podcast.
Speaker 2: I'm like, it's really more chill.
Speaker 3: We're not doing that anymore. Yeah, no, we're not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do, well, of course you do. Wonder if
Speaker 2: that also comes in waves in like suddenly in seven years, it'll.
Speaker 3: Be like sure. But I think like the mistake people
Speaker 3: made with that is like because we were all in COVID,
Speaker 3: and COVID is a unique thing. Whenever someone got canceled
Speaker 3: on the Internet or whatever, we thought like they're dead.
Speaker 3: Like I say, like we had cancel culture. Back in
Speaker 3: ancient Rome, it's just when you got canceled, they killed you.
Speaker 3: And I think it's because they knew if they didn't
Speaker 3: kill you, they'd have to hear you whine about cancel
Speaker 3: culture for the next fifew years. But like with COVID,
Speaker 3: we thought people left the Internet, they stopped existing. And
Speaker 3: then this is part of the Trump era, this is
Speaker 3: part of everything. We're like, oh, Kevin Space, he's still
Speaker 3: gonna go make movies. Yeah, and you have to contend
Speaker 3: with that. I'm not saying you have to go forgive
Speaker 3: Kevin Space because of that, but it's like, yeah, he's
Speaker 3: gonna make movies, and maybe if he's not making them,
Speaker 3: America's gonna make them in Israel. It's just like people
Speaker 3: still exist. People still exist in the world, and you
Speaker 3: have to confront that in terms of how you deal
Speaker 3: with punishments.
Speaker 1: I think the mean humor thing, I think is a
Speaker 1: good point and sort of in conversation because I do
Speaker 1: feel like in the twenty tens it was very popular
Speaker 1: to be like like a nice comedian, Like it was
Speaker 1: cool to be like nice and like get sort of
Speaker 1: a clappter thing everywhere, and so then cancel culture. Then
Speaker 1: we're sort of in this weird space where it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: we want to be mean, we know that, but we
Speaker 1: don't want to be an asshole either.
Speaker 3: And I think, listen, I think the bottom line is
Speaker 3: speaking from talk about a straight thing where it's like,
Speaker 3: I think some guys felt like, I'm not safe here.
Speaker 3: There's not a safety to be mean. People get so
Speaker 3: mad at me so quickly, they take me in the
Speaker 3: worst possible faith. And you're watching a queer comedians get
Speaker 3: away with murders sometimes and you're like, okay, and that
Speaker 3: that Bill. You can't let that resent. The problem is
Speaker 3: for some guys it let the resentment fucking destroy them.
Speaker 3: Or there are some people stop liking their comedy and
Speaker 3: they shifted so far totally, and there was a lot
Speaker 3: of bad liberalish comedy totally, but right now there is
Speaker 3: some awful right wing comedy mixed in with someone who
Speaker 3: like but something like a lot of this kill Tony.
Speaker 3: You're like, this is not funny.
Speaker 2: It's so that gives me hope, honestly, because you are
Speaker 2: absolutely correct that during the Hannahgatsby era, like the the presidency,
Speaker 2: the quote yeah, like the quote unquote like more left
Speaker 2: leaning queer comedy often was terrible and it made you,
Speaker 2: I you know, it made us as fellow queer comedians,
Speaker 2: feel like, oh god, like, is this what people think
Speaker 2: I do? I honestly remember, like even just like booking
Speaker 2: people for this podcast and have and being like it's
Speaker 2: a podcast where we talk about straight culture, I'm like,
Speaker 2: oh god, they probably think this thing, like since they
Speaker 2: think this is like some sincere thing where we're like
Speaker 2: talking about like how oppressed we are or something, and
Speaker 2: oh god, like I don't want people think that's sure,
Speaker 2: and it is. There's something that actually feels almost nice
Speaker 2: about that switching. And you're seeing as you're saying, the
Speaker 2: right wing people do horrible pandering material to essentially clapter
Speaker 2: about shople that are like anti DEI, and let's hope
Speaker 2: that that means that the people on the left are
Speaker 2: like going to become more creative and like make that sure.
Speaker 3: And also like, first of all, I liked I thought
Speaker 3: what was Hanna against? What is it called nttette Net
Speaker 3: was like a good piece of theater, and it was
Speaker 3: ultimately it was a build as it was built as
Speaker 3: a stand up comedy special for advertising purposes. Yes, and
Speaker 3: then everyone acted like this is going to invade our spaces?
Speaker 3: Is that the comedy seller changed in some way? But
Speaker 3: I also saw, like you know, if you watch Andrew
Speaker 3: Schultz's new special, it ends with a video montage of
Speaker 3: his wife getting pregnant having a baby, and people like
Speaker 3: crying and moved, and I go like, don't you see
Speaker 3: people just sometimes want to cry, and like you're crying
Speaker 3: at the end of the Neette, You're crying at the
Speaker 3: end of this. Don't you understand you have more in common.
Speaker 3: Comedians get to a place where sometimes they want to
Speaker 3: do more than make you laugh, and that doesn't mean
Speaker 3: that laughter is coming to an end. But I see
Speaker 3: people going like, wow, I cried at the end of this,
Speaker 3: and I go, that's what everyone was so mad about
Speaker 3: with Hannah gat for so long.
Speaker 2: It's like how Chappelle, Like the stereotype of Chappelle's later
Speaker 2: work is like he's saying something and then he gets
Speaker 2: really serious, and he's like they crucified him for that.
Speaker 2: Like it's like it's like you know what I mean, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: he is the king of suddenly becoming more serious. Oh
Speaker 2: my god, it's it's it's anyway, yeah, wow, Well Jean
Speaker 2: Marco any final thoughts on weightlifting.
Speaker 3: Oh, I think I think my trainer, I don't know.
Speaker 3: He's he hasn't been, he hasn't gone back recently, so interesting.
Speaker 3: But he's gay. Huh huge, And it definitely is like
Speaker 3: that is one of those that is one of those
Speaker 3: things where I go, I want to have my trainer
Speaker 3: be a gay man, And I don't know if I
Speaker 3: don't care if it's bad. I mean, that's that's the truth.
Speaker 3: It's like, and I don't know why. I don't know
Speaker 3: if I can fully articulate, like what it what it is,
Speaker 3: but I feel like.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't know who I work out for. If it's
Speaker 3: for myself, if it's for my business, if it's all
Speaker 3: over the thing. It's just liking to feel a certain way,
Speaker 3: if it's to make up for not feeling athletic as
Speaker 3: a kid. But I'm like the way that I want
Speaker 3: to talk about when I when I was worried about
Speaker 3: if I was in shape or not, I asked a
Speaker 3: friend of mine from college, a gay guy, and I
Speaker 3: said to him, I like, I'm I have prants around
Speaker 3: in my underwear. In general, I'm just an underwear guy,
Speaker 3: I'm a newdist if I'm alone. And I said to him, like,
Speaker 3: I'm in good shape, right, And he didn't say anything.
Speaker 3: And I went to my room and I cried, and
Speaker 3: then we like he talked and he was like, and
Speaker 3: this is like a friend. This is a friend who
Speaker 3: can be a hard friend, but he's an honest friend.
Speaker 3: It's notimes you need an honest friends. And he was
Speaker 3: saying I was not in shape. But what I was
Speaker 3: saying that I thought I was. He was like, he
Speaker 3: was like, you're in fine shape. But if you think
Speaker 3: that you're like in excellent shape, you're that's not That's
Speaker 3: essentially now listen. I understand some people would.
Speaker 1: Hear that and go, we're really giving him a lot
Speaker 1: of grace.
Speaker 3: I listen, listen, No, but you're you have to understand
Speaker 3: the energy that I brought to it. It's like if
Speaker 3: I came to you. If it's like if someone comes
Speaker 3: to you and goes, I'm I'm an amazing singer, right sure,
Speaker 3: and they're not an amazing singer. Are you the friend
Speaker 3: that lets them go in American Idol and make a
Speaker 3: fool of themselves or are you the friend who says
Speaker 3: you maybe if you if you want to be an
Speaker 3: amazing singer, you might want to take some voice lessons.
Speaker 2: But I would say you're like in better shape than
Speaker 2: like ninety five percent of the peo.
Speaker 1: This is.
Speaker 3: This was a long time ago. This is because oh
Speaker 3: that's why, well this is not recently. Okay, i'd say
Speaker 3: fuck you, excellent shape. But there's just like, in terms
Speaker 3: of talking about my own body, there's something where I'm like,
Speaker 3: I want to talk to a gay man because I
Speaker 3: want to talk to another man, and I trust a
Speaker 3: gay man's ability like talk about what looks good over
Speaker 3: a straight man, and.
Speaker 2: I know they're not about you because they're not trying
Speaker 2: to fuck.
Speaker 3: They possess the lack of empathy only a man could
Speaker 3: put on a.
Speaker 1: Well, I've been feeling this way with clothing shopping recently,
Speaker 1: where I've been trying on a lot of suits and
Speaker 1: you know, you've been having like thank you you like
Speaker 1: like sometimes I feel very sexualized where they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: try this, you try this, and I'm like, actually, it
Speaker 1: actually makes you feel so much better to know that
Speaker 1: you're sexualizing me. Like I'm like, you're actually paying attention. Yes,
Speaker 1: you have fake in this game, like you want me
Speaker 1: to be you want to turn yourself on?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Me.
Speaker 3: So my little sister she works at Selene in Los Angeles,
Speaker 3: and she like helps pick out fits sometimes, and I
Speaker 3: do some nice think like there is a thing where
Speaker 3: I say to her, like, I need to look sexy
Speaker 3: and you are you able, as my sister to do that?
Speaker 3: Are you able to look and like go, that's sexy,
Speaker 3: or are you ultimately like gonna make me look good
Speaker 3: but in an asexual way? Are you going like, oh,
Speaker 3: make sure you get some chest hair in there, because
Speaker 3: that's turning the.
Speaker 2: Ladies I had experienced recently, I went to this new
Speaker 2: men's restore in Brooklyn. I wish I could shut outcause
Speaker 2: it's a great story, but I'm about to say a
Speaker 2: negative story about them, so I won't. I the owner
Speaker 2: of the store was there really like hot, attractive fashion guy,
Speaker 2: you know, perfectly quaff beer whatever. I was trying to
Speaker 2: buy a nice shirt for something, and he was being
Speaker 2: very much like, oh that, I mean, the collar perfectly
Speaker 2: frames your face, blah blah. And then I find out
Speaker 2: after the fact that he is in fact straight, not gay,
Speaker 2: and just like because he works in fashion and like
Speaker 2: speaks like that, and says like, you know the color
Speaker 2: of yeah, and the way that I then put the
Speaker 2: shirt back on, looked at myself in the mirror and
Speaker 2: I was like, I look bad, like the sheen of
Speaker 2: his praise was gone. And I'm I have it actually here,
Speaker 2: I'm returning it today. I literally have the bag next
Speaker 2: to me.
Speaker 1: This is one of the scariest stories.
Speaker 2: And I'm telling you it doesn't look good on me.
Speaker 2: Like I now can objectively see it. It fits me weirdly.
Speaker 3: It is I love in fashion. They have to be like,
Speaker 3: no one can know that I'm straight. No one can
Speaker 3: know that I'm straight?
Speaker 2: Wow?
Speaker 3: Secret?
Speaker 1: That is crazy. And for you to go through the
Speaker 1: trouble of returning something, I mean, can you have the
Speaker 1: weirdness of it and still continuously expensive?
Speaker 2: Wow? I guess what I can only get for our credit?
Speaker 1: Woh wow.
Speaker 2: Well, I can't wait to see what you come up with. Same?
Speaker 2: Should we do our final segment?
Speaker 1: Our final segment is called shout Outs, and in this
Speaker 1: segment we pay omash is the grand straight tradition of
Speaker 1: the radio shout out shouting out to anything, people, places, things,
Speaker 1: ideas that we are enjoying. We make them up on
Speaker 1: the spot. We are unprepared. Her usual George, do you
Speaker 1: happen to have one?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Hit us with it? Okay, what's up, cinophiles. I
Speaker 2: want to give a shout out to the movie Drop,
Speaker 2: which I just watched two days ago. Now, as everyone knows,
Speaker 2: this movie is about a woman on a first date
Speaker 2: and she starts getting drops on her phone. You know
Speaker 2: about this dram marker. I don't, Okay, So she's on
Speaker 2: a first date. It's Megan pay from White Load to
Speaker 2: Season two. She's on a first date. She gets to
Speaker 2: drop on her phone, like an air drop, and it's
Speaker 2: like hey, and it turns out it's a guy that
Speaker 2: is sending her messages and they're like, you have to
Speaker 2: kill your date, otherwise your son will die. And she
Speaker 2: figures out that there's someone she can see on the
Speaker 2: cam Mara's on her phone, that there's someone at her
Speaker 2: place where her son is being babysad, and so then
Speaker 2: she has to do all these things that this man
Speaker 2: keeps telling her otherwise her son will die. And I
Speaker 2: guess I just want to give a generalized shout out
Speaker 2: to movies with a very simple premise that managed to
Speaker 2: stick the landing because it is actually very rare. You know,
Speaker 2: anyone can come up with the premise than what People
Speaker 2: don't realize that it has to have a second and
Speaker 2: a third act and then it has to have a
Speaker 2: satisfying conclusion. And I would say this film pulled that
Speaker 2: off much like the movie Red Eye famous Wes Craven.
Speaker 2: I want to say, Red Eye don't remember anyway? Yeah,
Speaker 2: so you know what? Keep them common folks.
Speaker 1: Who okay, what's up? Freaks, lusism perverts around the globe.
Speaker 1: I want to give out to the broken screen. On
Speaker 1: my flight over here, I had a broken screen and
Speaker 1: could not watch movies or TV even and it gave
Speaker 1: me a sense of superiority that I actually missed. I
Speaker 1: have been feeling sort of man of the people vibes,
Speaker 1: maybe even anti intellectual, and not this flight. This flight,
Speaker 1: I read my damn book the whole four hours and
Speaker 1: thirty minutes.
Speaker 3: Damn.
Speaker 1: You better believe I'm much further than I ever thought
Speaker 1: I would be read the book for our episode on Thursday.
Speaker 1: Oh I'm gonna be fucking prepped. And I felt like
Speaker 1: I could feel people looking at me saying.
Speaker 2: Is he reading this whole time? Oh my god, he's
Speaker 2: still reading And.
Speaker 1: He's not even napping, not even for a little bit.
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 1: I was a hero on the plane. Everyone was gagged
Speaker 1: at my intellectualism. And sometimes it's forced upon you, but.
Speaker 2: You have to take the call. Oh my god, First
Speaker 2: of all, you are so ahead of me in terms
Speaker 2: of buzzy books. It's crazy. You've lapped me twice.
Speaker 1: I'm lapping you. I'm lapping your ass.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Role reversal over here.
Speaker 2: Literally, and now your body's tight, John Marco, whenever you're.
Speaker 3: Ready, h what's up? It's the next sexy boys and
Speaker 3: girls around the universe. I stayed at a Hilton hotel
Speaker 3: in Wilmington, North Carolina. The hotels in this country are
Speaker 3: are falling apart of the seams. It is a fucking disaster.
Speaker 3: And no one should live a life on the road
Speaker 3: because you really experienced just the worst of life. But
Speaker 3: you see where America is going. My room, Saturday morning,
Speaker 3: six am, one of the alarms in the hotel clock
Speaker 3: went off, and then it went off a second time
Speaker 3: after that. My ac thing was broken, so it was
Speaker 3: fifty nine degrees in my room the entire time. And
Speaker 3: I complained, of course, and they gave me two things. One,
Speaker 3: they gave me fifty dollars off at the restaurant in
Speaker 3: the hotel. Again, am I happy about the hotel being shitty, No,
Speaker 3: but they gave. They gave. I complained and they said
Speaker 3: we will make this. Write I fifty nine degrees. There
Speaker 3: was no rooms. Then they found one room for me
Speaker 3: to switch that night. Society is collapsing. I understand the
Speaker 3: people who are hired in the middle part, they're not
Speaker 3: to blame, but unfortunately, this is the job that they've taken.
Speaker 3: And if you're there and it's your home for the night,
Speaker 3: they they're the ones that need to lead the revolution.
Speaker 3: Give enough of those fifty dollars cards that the hotel
Speaker 3: goes we're going bankrupt, and maybe it closes and maybe
Speaker 3: that's a good thing and you sacrifice your job, or
Speaker 3: maybe they go, this is a disaster, and you go,
Speaker 3: why what am I going to do? Tell the guy
Speaker 3: to fuck off? And unfortunately you've taken on the burden
Speaker 3: of we can't just let it happen. We can't just
Speaker 3: let it slide. I can't, I can't, I can't just
Speaker 3: not sleep. And I shout out to it to all
Speaker 3: those people who are are have been put in shitty
Speaker 3: positions those people in the lost baggage claim area at
Speaker 3: the airports that it's not your fault that the bag
Speaker 3: is lost. But you're the one who's saying, like, here's
Speaker 3: the four hundred dollars coupon for the flight. You gotta
Speaker 3: tear You got to tear up these companies from the
Speaker 3: inside and make them fix or die, because there's no
Speaker 3: way this is sustainable. There's no way it's sustainable.
Speaker 1: Wowow.
Speaker 2: I just want to say, I want to give a
Speaker 2: shout out to the phrase the people that are hired
Speaker 2: in the middle part, because it's so like, that's a
Speaker 2: that's literally the that's a Jordan Peel movie, the middle
Speaker 2: part in the middle part. Yeah, no, it's so true.
Speaker 2: I mean I have to say, if I complain about
Speaker 2: something which is very rare, and I get even like
Speaker 2: one dollar, I'm immediately like, I'm writing you into my will. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I'm like thak, yes, yeah, this was really amazing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you just gotta Oh. If I worked up
Speaker 3: the play they fireman, I give twenty five bucks each
Speaker 3: time they came in. I was saying, hey, this is
Speaker 3: a piece of shit right off the gate, here's twenty
Speaker 3: five dolls.
Speaker 2: I actually toid more when something is bad because I
Speaker 2: feel bad.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but it was nice. It was like he
Speaker 3: came and it was fifty he walked in the room,
Speaker 3: and I like that he did this. He went, oh
Speaker 3: my god, like acknowledge, it is very cold.
Speaker 1: That's nice.
Speaker 3: Fifty nine degrees is very cold. I'm not being a
Speaker 3: baby here. And the blankets are this thin. We all
Speaker 3: know what we're doing here, covered in com don't yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Don't lie.
Speaker 3: Don't lie that it's not that bad or the worst.
Speaker 3: Like this one baggage. The bag was ripped open, it
Speaker 3: was soaking wet. They ruined everything. And she said, she said,
Speaker 3: it happens more often than you'd think, and I was like,
Speaker 3: that's not for me. That doesn't make me feel better,
Speaker 3: that's don't don't even offer that. Yeah, then you should
Speaker 3: have a better answer, But it happens more often. You
Speaker 3: have a better answer than whatever the fuck?
Speaker 2: This is actually the opposite of what you want to
Speaker 2: hear because you want to be the protagonist of that story.
Speaker 2: It's like, yes, how could this possibly happen to me?
Speaker 1: Wow? Well, this has been a delight.
Speaker 2: Incredible. I'm Jean Marco where can people find you, where
Speaker 2: people see you, and how can people you know, maybe
Speaker 2: even physically find you and visit physically.
Speaker 3: I announce my location pretty much every night if you
Speaker 3: want to find me to do whatever at Jo Marcus
Speaker 3: Arasi all social media platforms. My podcast is called the
Speaker 3: Downside with Tree Marcus Arasi and I'm just on tour
Speaker 3: all the time. I post a lot of videos online
Speaker 3: and I'll have a special coming out later this year,
Speaker 3: probably on YouTube, so just stay tuned.
Speaker 1: Whoo whoo, Okay, thanks for doing the polo, Thank you
Speaker 1: bye podcast.
Speaker 3: And now want more?
Speaker 2: Subscribe to our Patreon for two extra episodes a month,
Speaker 2: discord access and more by heading to patreon dot com.
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Speaker 1: All our visual earners, free full length video episodes are
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Speaker 2: Our YouTube now Get back to Work.
Speaker 1: Stradia Lab is a production by Will Ferrell's Big Money
Speaker 1: Players Work and iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 2: Created and hosted by George Severis and Sam Taggart.
Speaker 1: Executive produced by Will Ferrell, Han Soni and Olivia Aguilar.
Speaker 1: Co produced by Bai Wang, edited and engineered by Adam Avalos.
Speaker 1: Artwork by Michael Fails and Matt grubg theme music by
Speaker 1: Ben Kling,