WEBVTT - Andre 3000 and Rick Rubin In Conversation 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:15.560 Pushkin Andre three thousand, best known as half of Atlanta's Outcast, 0:00:15.800 --> 0:00:19.440 arguably the greatest hip hop duo of all time and 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:24.919 definitely one of the most gifted rappers ever. Outside of Atlanta. 0:00:25.079 --> 0:00:27.920 Most rap fans first heard of Outcast in nineteen ninety 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:30.840 five when they got booed at the Source Awards after 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:33.839 winning Best New Artist. This was at the start of 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:36.640 the East Coast West Coast rivalry, and Andre threw down 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:40.880 the gauntlet, declaring the South got something to say. Andrea 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:43.440 and his partner Big Boy were the first Southern rappers 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:45.639 to see the same sales success as any of their 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:49.080 East or West Coast counterparts. In two thousand and three, 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:53.199 They're double album speaker Box The Love Below was certified Diamond, 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:57.880 meaning it sold over ten million copies and artistically that 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:00.880 album remains one of the all time creative high water 0:01:00.960 --> 0:01:04.320 marks and music. But as you're about to hear, Andre 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:07.960 is often haunted by his own legacy. He sat down 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:10.559 for tea with Rick Rubin at Shangri La and talked 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:13.560 about how fame crippled his creativity and why it's so 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:16.760 hard for him to quiet the noise and make new music. 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:19.640 The rap fan of me, the music, fan of me, 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:23.399 the all things. Andre three thousand fan of me is 0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:26.640 absolutely in love with this episode, and I think you're 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:33.280 gonna love it too. Enjoy. This is broken record line 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:35.760 of notes for the digital age. I'm just a mission. 0:01:36.680 --> 0:01:40.080 Here's Rick Rubin with Andre three thousand from Shangri La. 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:42.920 When you were starting to make music, what would have 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:46.000 been the touchstone influences that got you'd want to actually 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:49.520 make music. I'll have to say Tribe and Dark Powell 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:56.440 snooping them and just it was when you at that 0:01:56.520 --> 0:02:01.800 point of discovery as a kid and seeing these new 0:02:01.880 --> 0:02:04.800 ways of doing things, these new ways of rapping, like 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:09.560 the way how our glyphics were rapping at the time, 0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:15.000 it was completely new. Yeah, the phrasing was different, Yes, 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:18.120 the ending of words, man Eminem. We sat on the 0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:23.880 phone about an hour talking about how our glyphics crew 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:27.679 like how those words and we were trading Yeah, and 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:31.720 like their lyrics on the phone, like do you remember man, Yeah, 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:35.440 Like they sparked so much. They opened up a new 0:02:35.480 --> 0:02:39.440 door for everybody, I think, and I think just to 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:43.240 be around that time and to be like we we 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:44.960 were out when Woo was out, We were out when 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:47.880 Nas was out so but we're from the South, so 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:50.240 it's kind of like we had to step up. Like 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:53.000 I think that was the best blessing. I know, people 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:55.680 look at the footage of us winning the Source Award 0:02:55.720 --> 0:02:58.239 and what I had to say on stage, like, oh 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:00.760 that was it was messed up. They're bing boo. But 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:02.920 I think that was the biggest blessing for us to 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:07.200 have to have to just be better. Yeah, to have 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:10.079 to fight and really prove that we were really in 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:12.079 to what we were doing. And I could understand how 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:14.520 they may have taken you know, first album is just 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:17.720 you know, just just some Southern you know, riding around 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:20.520 you know, Caliac smoking chick you know, smoking and eat 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:23.960 chicken Wayans kind of stuff like that. But it made 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:27.680 us have to be better because we were on the road. 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:30.600 We're on the road where Red Man, we were opening 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:34.200 up for these people, so we got that schooling, you know, 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:37.320 so we had to become we had to become better. 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:40.600 What's interesting about it too, is that you you did 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:43.640 become better, but you didn't become at all like any 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:47.640 of them. You know. It really was completely original, and 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:51.120 I think that's the reason why it's still holds up 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:53.840 to the test of time. Is I don't know anyone 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:57.160 who's really made music sense like the music that you made. 0:03:57.640 --> 0:04:01.040 It's very unique. I would have to say that that 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:06.760 is because of the dungeon, like the kind of our incubator, 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:11.120 Like the dungeon was basically a house with us, you know, 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:15.600 goody mob pa. We were all in a basement, drum machines, 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:21.479 house speakers, you know, dirt, no no walls, actually dirt 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:23.280 where the furnace and all that kind of stuff was. 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:27.240 And that was a place where you you leave your job, 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:30.719 leave school. You'd come down there and you might smoke, 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:34.400 you might talk about issues. You but you rapping. So 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:37.640 I'm trading versus. Could you go over that? Trade versus? 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:40.719 Clow come trade versus. So it was at a certain 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:44.479 point we started building our own slang, you know, so 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:49.120 it became a world in itself. So we gained confidence 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:52.360 in ourselves. You know, like when I say king shit, 0:04:52.560 --> 0:04:54.360 somebody else say king shit, we knew what that meant 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:57.400 because we would talk that way around the dungeon. So 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:03.440 a certain confidence and a certain building of our vocabulary 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:06.159 and building of our own styles. It was like we 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:08.240 were creating this own world. So by the time it 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:12.120 hit every everybody else it may have sounded like something else, 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:14.279 you know, but we were influenced by everything, and there 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:19.880 were times where I sounded Souls of mischief e. You know, 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:22.840 my very first rap that I remember writing out of 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:26.160 high school, which sounded cute, tippish, you know what I mean, 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:28.440 because that's what I'm listening to. It makes sense, you 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:30.600 know what I mean. Really found your own voice yet, 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:33.320 but you but you developed your skill as a writer 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:37.520 doing it like him, to find your way in yes, 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:39.800 and then eventually it's like, oh, well that's more like him, 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:42.680 and this other way it's more like me, right. Yeah. 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:47.240 I originally was at a club in LA in this 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:50.760 place where you know indie bands played like, you know, 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:54.520 first few shows you've ever played. And I saw a 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:58.120 band and I saw him perform, and they came and 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:02.040 asked me what I thought after performance, and I said, man, 0:06:04.200 --> 0:06:07.480 you gotta keep keep going, you gotta keep doing it, 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:09.520 because it's like, yeah, man, we've been trying to decide 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:11.719 if we should wait till we get a deal before 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:16.000 we do shows. I was like, no, no, because you're 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:20.160 a training ground. Lets you know what you are, who 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:22.200 you are of course you want to sound like everybody 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:24.960 you love, but in the end you really don't. You 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:26.680 know what I mean, You don't, but you don't. You 0:06:26.720 --> 0:06:30.400 don't get to that point until you've put it out 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:33.040 there and you've heard yourself sound horrible or you've heard 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:36.159 yourself sound exactly like something but not as good as 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:38.919 what you love. Yes, it takes that time. So a 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:42.000 lot of our proven ground. We're in the dungeon, you know. 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:44.080 We didn't do it a lot of shows. To be honest, 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:46.640 it was and it took me to that point. It 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:49.039 took me a while to learn how to perform. Actually, 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:50.760 I mean I could write. I was more of a writer, 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:52.680 but even if you listen to the first album, I 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:56.200 couldn't even nuncey to say my words, you know, like 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:59.599 I wanted to, because those muscles weren't built, you know, 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:04.800 and people I don't understand that. Performing even vocally, it 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:07.400 is a muscle and you have to exercise it. And 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:09.479 the more you exercise it, the stronger you get. The 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:13.120 more you are in front of people, you know what works, 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:15.560 what doesn't work, and you can play with that and 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:17.840 bring it back into your writing, and you have more 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:20.960 confidence in your writing so all all those building moments 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:26.280 are important to find your your voice. Absolutely, and there's 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:30.720 really no shortcuts. It's you just have to do the word. 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:33.280 It's not and it's and it's hard, it's very it's 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:36.920 very hard. That I remember times where Rico Rico Wade. 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:40.240 There will be times where I would come down and 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:42.680 I say, check this out, and I would bust a 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:44.960 word for him, and he would just get up and 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:50.080 walk away. I say anything, and I would like, fun 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:52.520 wrong with him, you know what I mean, Like, damn, 0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:54.080 this kind of disrespect, you know what I mean. But 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:58.440 it took me a minute to realize that, wouldn't it. Yeah, 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:02.160 And then I remember one time I maybe had smoke 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:04.080 to joint and then winning the in the booth, and 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:06.000 I was kind of out of it and I just 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:09.520 started rapping with my normal voice, like my speaking voice, 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:15.679 and we said that's it, and that was it. Yeah. 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:19.640 It's amazing how those breakthroughs happen almost when you're not 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:22.280 really looking, you know, like when you're not paying attention, 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:26.800 something happens. You gotta move out the way, Yeah, but 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:29.640 you gotta you gotta work for moving out the way too, 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:32.520 You gotta you can't move out the way so far 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:36.000 that nothing happens. Yeah, so you have to work hard 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:40.000 and then wait for that moment. Was that there it is? Yeah, 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:44.520 you know, be open to recognizing it when it happens. Yeah, 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:49.120 but community, man, like, yeah, it's it's funny because and 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:51.240 thank you for the opportunity to be on this on 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:54.160 this podcast. But when I learned that I was coming, 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:56.040 and you know, I learned that it was you and 0:08:56.080 --> 0:09:00.320 Malcolm's thing. I'd never read any of Malcolm's books, bought 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:02.880 them and then I went on on the road and 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:04.720 did something and I forgot to read them. So I 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:07.280 was like, all right, I'll of respect, let me read, 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:10.000 you know, at least read a book. And I don't 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:13.040 read much. I actually don't, and so I read outlies 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:17.520 and it, man, it blew my mind. It completely blew 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:21.640 my mind. And it really made me think of the 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:27.520 community that gives you opportunity to be all of this 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:30.800 and that's what the dungeon. Yeah, and had there not 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:33.720 been a dungeon, who knows what you would have done. 0:09:33.840 --> 0:09:36.720 You know, like it really and that wasn't anything that 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:39.480 you decided to make happen. It's like so much of 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:43.240 it is chance. It was, Yeah, like things just happened. 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:47.720 The universe sets up a situation and something good happened, 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:49.920 something comes out of it. I was just talking about 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:53.280 that today earlier with my friend when I was going 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:56.960 to college or decided between going at NYU and University Chicago, 0:09:57.000 --> 0:10:00.320 and had I gone to University Chicago, my whole life 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:02.360 would have been different because hip hop was happening in 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:04.760 New York and I happened to be there. But if 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:06.880 I was somewhere else, I wouldn't have known what was 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:08.640 going on there because I wouldn't have been in it. Yep. 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:13.439 And that's just luck. You know that has it is? 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:17.560 It's luck, it's chances. Maybe you were just supposed it 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:19.560 was supposed to happen to you, And I believe in 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:23.240 that as well. It's like it's like it's so much 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:26.720 of it is out of our control, but but I'm 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:30.200 always grateful when something good happens. You know. It's like 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:35.000 I know I can't make it happen, but I know 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:38.160 that I can be open to it happen. I'll invite 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:42.480 it in and welcome it and do everything I can 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:46.760 to best support this thing that arrives that I know 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:52.240 is bigger than me. Yes, you know, it's magical. It 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:55.560 really is. Magic really is. And it's the hardest part 0:10:55.559 --> 0:11:00.320 of that is when something bad happens and feeling the 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:07.600 bad thing and remembering trying to separate ourselves from the 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:09.680 thing that happened that didn't work out or didn't go 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:13.160 the way we wanted it to go, and to say, Okay, 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:16.640 imagine that's a scene in a movie, I can't wait 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:18.480 to see what happens next, do you know what I mean, 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:23.640 instead of just sinking into the vibe, because because it's 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:26.240 the same, it's the same vibe of when the good 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:29.320 thing happens, it's the same. It's like, good things happen, 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:32.840 bad things happen. It's that's all part of life. Yeah, 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:38.680 And just sort of staying neutral and riding the wave. 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:41.079 You know, I'm learning. I'm still learning that. You know. 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:44.760 It's hard. It's hard riding you say it, riding that waves. 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:48.840 It's hard because you dip down low. Sometimes you get stuck, 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:52.720 you know, absolutely, especially if you're used to the wave 0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:55.120 going a certain way. Yes, you know, And I think 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:58.360 that's when you have to kind of lay yourself down 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:01.400 and kind of just let it be. Yeah, you know, 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:03.520 And that's that's hard. It's hard for me. Yes, it's 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:06.360 very hard for me. Yes, Well, you've been listening too 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:13.240 lately instrumental music. I was just turned on to Steve Wright. Wow. Great, 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:16.160 I just chest now, like and I'm like, what the 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:18.400 hell have I been? Because I knew Philip Glass. I 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:21.640 was always into Field Glass, but I never Then somebody said, well, 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:24.440 if you like Philip Glass, you'll love Steve right. Yeah, 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:29.000 like what I heard. I was like, what, Yeah, I've 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:31.640 been into a lot of a lot of instrumental music 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:38.320 now because I'm I just had a point where I 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:41.199 sometimes I figure, like a lot of lyrics just bombarding, 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:44.000 you know. And I know it sounds crazy coming from 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:48.480 a rap artist, but I think sometimes, you know, just 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:53.480 sometimes the thoughts just just take over, you know, and 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:55.839 then not necessarily anything you want to be a part of, 0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:59.680 you want to party and you know. But I kind 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:01.520 of that I kind of like music that I can 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:04.880 have my own thoughts too. Yes, you know, that's kind 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:10.920 of where I've been lately. Beautiful. What's your process like 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:13.400 making music these days? Do you do you make much? 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:17.280 Not so much? How would you say? I haven't been 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:20.920 making much music? Man? My my focus is not there, 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:27.320 my confidence is not there. I tinker. I tinker a lot, 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:32.480 Like I'll just go to a piano and I'll set 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:35.560 my iPhone down and just record what I'm doing, move 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:37.959 my fingers around and whatever happens. But I hadn't been 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:45.920 motivated to do a serious project. I'd like to, but 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:49.320 it's just it's just not coming in my in my 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:51.800 own self, I'm trying to figure out where do I 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:54.360 Where do I Where do I sit? And you know, 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:57.000 I don't I don't even know what I am And 0:13:57.160 --> 0:13:59.360 maybe I'm nothing. Maybe I'm not supposed to be anything. 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:03.800 Maybe you know, my history is kind of handicapping in 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:06.240 a way. And so I'm just trying to find out 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:12.160 what makes me feel the best right now. And what 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:15.000 makes you feel the best is when I just do 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:19.480 these random, kind of instrumental kind of things. You know, 0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:22.440 they make me feel that, they make me feel the 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:25.360 most rebellious. Yes, you know, I don't know. I have 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:27.600 a really rebellious but I don't like to go with 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:30.360 the flow. Really, I don't know why. Yes, but I 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:33.160 just feel best when I don't. Yes, you know, So 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:35.400 I have to honor that, understand, I have to honor 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:37.960 that in a way, you know, Oh for sure, for sure. 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:44.119 I think so much of it isn't to be decided, 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:47.200 do you know what I'm saying. It's not. I don't 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:49.440 think it's to be figured out. I think it's more 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:54.240 to be I think you make a lot of you 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:58.600 start making a lot of things with no thinking of 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:01.120 what it's supposed to be or who's it for, what 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:03.760 anyone else is going to think. But just get in 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:07.560 the habit of making a lot. That's what I gotta 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:09.960 get back to me. Yeah, just make a lot. And 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:12.680 then at some point in that process you'd be like, 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:16.800 m I really like this. It didn't and you didn't know, 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:19.040 like through through that whole process, you don't know when 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:22.360 that's going to happen. Yeah, And it's not. It's not 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:26.280 a decision you make. And it's not an intellectual idea 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:29.120 where I have a vision and I'm going to make 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:31.640 this thing. It doesn't. It doesn't happen like there rarely 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:37.160 happens like that. It happens more just having fun making things. 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:43.880 No no stakes, you know, there's no nothing's on the 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:46.280 line to see. That's that's that's I'm got to say. 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:50.360 That's hard to do when everything is actually I mean 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:55.600 when the problem with being an artist, a successful artist, yes, 0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:59.400 is you have to find a comfortable place to do 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:02.920 that again, Yes, but think about they come to place 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:05.640 to feel uncomfortable with what I'm saying. But the way 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:09.080 that you made the stuff that ended up being successful 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:15.600 wasn't made from a place of feeling any responsibility, right 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:19.200 because it because the attention wasn't there at all yet 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:20.680 in a way, you know, And it's kind of like 0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:25.680 you were still proving yourself. And it's so I liken 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:28.560 it to like if you're a kid and you're in 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:31.480 your room, you're plan you know, with with toys and 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:37.040 you hops, and you you have this world going on. Yes, 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:40.160 the moment when your mom opens the door and says Andre, 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:43.480 that world kind of stops. Yes, you know what I mean. 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:48.040 So once the attention is on that world, that the 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:52.000 world goes away. So you got to find a way 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:54.840 to get back to that place to where you can 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:59.040 build those worlds again and not have the eyes or 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:02.600 like the judge, you know. And that's that's a that's 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:04.520 that's hard for me. It's really hard for me because 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:07.919 and I mean you see it everywhere now, any little 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:10.879 thing I put out is instantly like attacked, not not 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:13.959 in a good or a bad way. Well well I'm 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:18.320 saying the the yeah, and people nitpick it like with 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:22.600 fine tooth comb, like oh he said that word, you 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:24.240 know what I mean? And that's that's not a great 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:26.800 place to to create from, you know what I mean. 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:30.240 And it makes you it makes you draw back, and 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:33.160 then maybe I don't have the confidence that I want 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:37.440 or the space to experiment like I used to. When 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:39.680 the stuff that people love from back then, it was 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:43.560 in a place you would free. Yeah, you free. You 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:45.880 didn't give a shit, you didn't care like because they didn't. 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:47.960 They didn't care. They ain't even like you. No, you 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:50.000 know what I mean. So it's like, great, don't like 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:52.320 what we're doing. Now we can just do what we're doing. 0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:56.760 But the same holds true now. So now you can 0:17:56.800 --> 0:18:00.760 make stuff that you as long as you like it. 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:02.560 It doesn't matter if they like it or not because 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:05.280 they hated you back then. It's the same. It's the same, 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:07.480 do you know what I'm saying. The only thing that's 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:12.640 changed is your point of view. Really, yes, nothing else 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:17.000 has changed, and that's that is within your control. You 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:21.760 can you can you can decide to read what someone 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:24.240 else says or give them that power, or you can 0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:27.520 say they can think what they want and you Usually 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:30.080 here's another part of it. This is very interesting when 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:36.080 someone is critical of something you do, usually that's more 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:38.960 about them than it is about you. Do you know 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:43.640 what I'm saying. It's like it's a that's what they 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:47.600 see because of who they are. It has nothing to 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:50.760 do with you, right, do you know what I'm saying? Well, 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:53.840 that's that brings to another point because I've noticed that 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:56.800 I'm very judgmental at this point of my own self. 0:18:56.840 --> 0:18:59.119 So as that's saying that I'm just in a not 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:02.359 so great play, yes, you know, yeah, and I and 0:19:02.720 --> 0:19:05.640 I feel that I feel very judgmental and I hate it, 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:08.000 like I don't want to be judgmental. It's almost like 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:10.320 being a movie director but not being able to go 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:12.320 to the movie theater and see movies on Friday like 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:15.480 you used to, because you're judging every shot. Yes, you're 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:19.320 judging every light lighting situation. You're like, oh man, they 0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:21.399 adr that one up. You know. It's it's kind of 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:24.120 like how do you get away from that? Yeah, it's 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:27.280 almost like you know too much. Yes, yes, yeah, yes, 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:30.040 you know too much. And I think as you go along, 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:33.880 you just got to find a way to break free 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:37.600 of everything you know. And that's very hard. That's very hard, 0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:40.720 even even melody wise, like I'm getting sick of my 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:46.040 melodies because they're all they seem like they're tied to 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:49.119 something that I know, or so I try to just 0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:56.240 throw notes anywhere just to try. Yeah. Yeah, and I 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:59.880 think that's that rebellious kind of unrespirit, that turn left 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:03.720 spirit when everybody's going this way because you're looking for 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:06.520 something else. But it's it's very it's very hard when 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:09.080 you've been doing it for so long. Understood it's very hard. 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:12.200 But moving forward to try to help work through this stuff, 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:16.280 make something to where you're happy you made it. That's 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:18.200 all like something you'd be happy to play for your friend. 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:21.520 That would be the ultimate. That's the ultimate. I mean 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:23.520 for me, if I make something, I'm excited to play 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:26.600 it for my friend. That's it. Yeah, you know what 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:28.239 I mean. That's that's what I've that's what I've been 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:32.000 doing lately. That's it. That's that's that's the whole mission. Yeah, 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:34.679 we'll be back with under three thousand after the break, 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:42.080 we're back with more of under three thousand. Growing up, 0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:44.680 would you say you were hard on yourself or yeah, 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:48.360 for sure. I think especially as a kid when you're 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:51.639 trying to fit in or trying to figure out what 0:20:51.760 --> 0:20:54.880 you are, Like am I cool like that? Or do 0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:56.680 I want to be hanging with these people? Or do 0:20:56.960 --> 0:20:59.040 what do they think of me? Or oh man, it's 0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:01.600 this girl? Does she really like me? Or you know, 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:03.360 am I cool enough for it? Like all of those 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:07.480 things that most kids go through. You get it, but 0:21:07.600 --> 0:21:13.760 I think I think I think I did do it 0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:17.600 a little bit more. And maybe because isolation and I 0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:23.560 think when you're alone a lot you contemplate, yes, and 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:27.200 when you have a lot of time to contemplate, sometimes 0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:30.760 it's not good. Yeah, you know. And so that's when 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:32.680 I said, like if I had brothers and sisters, yeah, 0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:36.359 I wouldn't have to worry about certain things with social 0:21:36.440 --> 0:21:40.400 anxieties order like I was diagnosed years ago and hypersensitivity 0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:44.000 like with that kind of thing, isolation is not good. 0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:47.119 But I feel most comfortable being isolated. So I spend 0:21:47.760 --> 0:21:51.719 ninety five percent of my time by myself, yes, you know, 0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:55.560 and that that gives you time to analyze, and the 0:21:55.640 --> 0:22:00.720 brain loves to find problems absolutely even if they're not there, absolutely, 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:06.120 and so the judgment will kind of analyzing. It's kind 0:22:06.160 --> 0:22:10.640 of running book. Yeah, so you have to find ways 0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:13.320 to break out of that kind of thing. And but 0:22:13.400 --> 0:22:18.200 the other side of it is it's that same hypersensitivity 0:22:18.359 --> 0:22:21.120 that makes you a great artist. You know. It's like therapist, 0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:23.840 my therapist, the same thing. It's the truth. It's the truth. 0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:28.120 It's it's like it's a blessing and a curse. Yeah, 0:22:28.320 --> 0:22:31.399 it's harder to be in the world, but that's the gift, 0:22:32.200 --> 0:22:37.000 and it's I know, it's it's man, it's there have 0:22:37.040 --> 0:22:39.920 been times where I would like I've prayed, like prayed 0:22:40.480 --> 0:22:43.200 to a god that I didn't even know it existed. Really, yes, 0:22:43.720 --> 0:22:47.040 pray like I would rather you take this away from me, 0:22:47.760 --> 0:22:49.720 all of this, and just if I could just feel 0:22:49.720 --> 0:22:51.680 normal like that, if I could just feel normal, like 0:22:51.920 --> 0:22:54.359 take voice, career, all that shit, you can have it, 0:22:54.960 --> 0:22:57.920 if I could feel normal. Yes, But it don't work 0:22:57.960 --> 0:23:00.840 like that. No, I just don't. It's really sad. But 0:23:00.880 --> 0:23:03.120 that's why a lot of artists o D. That's why 0:23:03.240 --> 0:23:07.880 young artists die from drugs, is they're sensitive people. There's 0:23:08.000 --> 0:23:13.240 all especially in success, there's all this emotion that no 0:23:13.280 --> 0:23:16.960