WEBVTT - Is Wearable Tech a Red Flag? 0:00:02.570 --> 0:00:04.250 Bloomberg Audio Studios. 0:00:04.730 --> 0:00:05.390 Podcasts. 0:00:05.730 --> 0:00:06.250 Radio. 0:00:06.690 --> 0:00:07.110 News. 0:00:11.860 --> 0:00:16.220 Okay, Max. Friday before Labor Day and August is. 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:18.239 We're still working. What's going on, Stacey? 0:00:18.300 --> 0:00:18.419 I know. 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:20.460 I don't know. But we have a fun show. 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:23.779 I feel like it's both newsy but also a good 0:00:24.020 --> 0:00:27.770 end of summer show. We're talking about Apple... Obviously, they 0:00:27.790 --> 0:00:29.620 have a new CEO. They're about to release a. 0:00:29.590 --> 0:00:30.440 Bunch of products. 0:00:30.500 --> 0:00:33.620 We have the great Mark Gurman here to list off 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:35.940 all the products. And when I say all the products 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:38.140 Apple's going to be coming out with, it's. 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:39.640 All the products. Yes. 0:00:39.979 --> 0:00:40.220 All of them. 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:41.700 Very comprehensive. 0:00:41.940 --> 0:00:47.110 And we talk about these glasses, the quote-unquote pervert glasses, 0:00:47.430 --> 0:00:50.850 which are showing up everywhere and which many people do 0:00:50.890 --> 0:00:51.350 not like. 0:00:51.810 --> 0:00:54.170 Mark has thoughts on... and we will get into it. 0:00:54.350 --> 0:00:55.470 And also the end of the world. 0:00:55.690 --> 0:00:57.590 Yeah, that's the second topic. Bots making bots, yes. 0:00:57.610 --> 0:00:58.050 Stick around. 0:00:58.310 --> 0:01:00.610 We are going to talk about. 0:01:00.630 --> 0:01:02.250 This is the way the world ends. 0:01:02.470 --> 0:01:04.030 About the danger. 0:01:04.050 --> 0:01:05.430 Oh, I thought you were going. 0:01:05.750 --> 0:01:06.850 Sorry, I even missed. 0:01:06.950 --> 0:01:10.229 I jumped ahead to the danger of world-ending plagues, but 0:01:10.270 --> 0:01:11.649 you were talking about world-ending AI. 0:01:11.670 --> 0:01:13.490 Actually, maybe that's the theme of the show. 0:01:13.610 --> 0:01:17.230 We are going to talk with Jason Gale, Bloomberg Health reporter, 0:01:17.250 --> 0:01:20.699 Bloomberg Health editor... about the ways in which the Trump 0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:24.380 administration sort of cracked down on certain kinds of science 0:01:24.420 --> 0:01:27.420 is playing out and the potential risks posed there. 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:29.380 It's the end of the world as we know it. 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:31.039 Welcome to September. 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:32.110 But hopefully not. 0:01:32.270 --> 0:01:35.290 And, you know, we'll also talk about prediction markets somewhere 0:01:35.310 --> 0:01:35.470 in there. 0:01:35.490 --> 0:01:37.509 Yes, yes, the other end of the world. 0:01:42.900 --> 0:01:45.899 All right, Max, you have a big feature in Business 0:01:45.940 --> 0:01:50.270 Week right now, and it is about the business of viruses. 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:54.590 And it's interesting because sometimes COVID seems like it was 0:01:54.670 --> 0:01:58.370 so long ago, but it wasn't actually all that long ago. 0:01:58.390 --> 0:02:00.510 I feel like there are a few things that. 0:02:00.430 --> 0:02:04.970 Have shaped our economy, our culture, our lives more than 0:02:04.990 --> 0:02:06.410 that virus. 0:02:07.510 --> 0:02:09.910 Absolutely, Stacey. I feel like it comes up. 0:02:10.300 --> 0:02:12.960 In so many of our conversations, I think about the 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:15.720 ways in which it changed our lives. 0:02:15.820 --> 0:02:18.030 It changed how we think about each other. 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:22.270 And it also changed our politics in ways that are 0:02:22.510 --> 0:02:23.389 absolutely crazy. 0:02:23.669 --> 0:02:23.929 Yeah. 0:02:24.030 --> 0:02:26.290 I mean, I think we're still living a lot of 0:02:26.350 --> 0:02:30.750 that today. But you have a great portrait of a virologist, 0:02:30.830 --> 0:02:33.730 one of the people who worked on COVID and who 0:02:33.770 --> 0:02:37.290 also worked on HIV. This was his business. And just 0:02:37.740 --> 0:02:41.380 how much things have changed. And you did the feature, 0:02:41.419 --> 0:02:44.220 we should say, with Jason Gale, the global health editor 0:02:44.260 --> 0:02:44.780 for Bloomberg. 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:46.600 Hi, Jason, joining us from Australia. 0:02:46.620 --> 0:02:47.780 Thank you for having me. 0:02:48.210 --> 0:02:51.460 Yeah, Stacey, we couldn't do this without Jason. Jason has 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:53.900 a book about COVID called After COVID. It's all about 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:58.730 the economic and epidemiological consequences of the pandemic, all these 0:02:58.750 --> 0:03:01.930 things that we're talking about. And he is really the 0:03:01.990 --> 0:03:05.220 person who said to me and other Businessweek folks, like, 0:03:05.570 --> 0:03:07.940 You guys should write about, we should write about this guy, 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:11.980 Bob Gehry. He's had a fascinating crossroads of a bunch 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:12.519 of different things. 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:14.799 Yeah, so Jason, tell us, for people who don't know 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:18.340 Bob Gehry, who was he and what role did he 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:20.709 play in the pandemic here in the U.S. 0:03:20.770 --> 0:03:21.770 And I guess globally also? 0:03:22.110 --> 0:03:27.609 Well, Bob is a microbiologist, virologist by specialty at Tulane 0:03:27.630 --> 0:03:32.790 University down in New Orleans. He's been working on viruses 0:03:33.130 --> 0:03:37.440 for close to 50 years. And his work before COVID 0:03:37.660 --> 0:03:40.450 was really what was so important because he had already 0:03:40.530 --> 0:03:44.480 laid the groundwork for rapid tests, which obviously became incredibly 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:48.930 important trying to do battle with the SARS-CoV-2 virus. 0:03:49.170 --> 0:03:52.260 So Bob is this renowned virologist. 0:03:52.460 --> 0:03:56.220 He had done all this important work, and basically his 0:03:56.300 --> 0:03:59.210 life was turned upside down by the COVID pandemic in 0:03:59.220 --> 0:04:02.970 this very specific way, which is that he co-wrote a 0:04:03.050 --> 0:04:08.430 paper called The Proximal Origins of SARS-CoV-2. And this was 0:04:08.470 --> 0:04:11.510 a paper that came out in the very early days 0:04:11.530 --> 0:04:15.190 of the pandemic, March, I believe, arguing that it was 0:04:15.270 --> 0:04:21.270 very unlikely, implausible, that COVID came from a lab leak. 0:04:21.430 --> 0:04:24.930 That he's saying that COVID essentially came because of natural origin, 0:04:24.970 --> 0:04:28.680 which is the way that most viruses happen. And basically, 0:04:28.710 --> 0:04:30.300 since then, his life has been turned upside down. 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:34.300 I mean, he got, I think, $ 9 million from the government. 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:37.880 So he was in the mix, like, battling the disease, 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:42.280 trying to come up with tests, with cures, with antidotes. 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:46.080 And you both went to his lab in New Orleans, 0:04:46.680 --> 0:04:51.230 and it's incredibly striking, this scene, because you go into 0:04:51.260 --> 0:04:53.830 the lab, it's all this equipment there, all the equipment 0:04:53.910 --> 0:04:57.530 you'd expect to see, but it's empty. How did he 0:04:57.570 --> 0:05:02.930 get from $ 9 million, top of his field, to empty lab? 0:05:03.230 --> 0:05:08.020 His funding was cut. Yeah. Basically, he was working in 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:12.679 a group called CREED, the Centers for Research in Emerging 0:05:13.380 --> 0:05:17.900 Infectious Diseases, and had received a lot of money through 0:05:17.940 --> 0:05:22.380 the National Institutes of Health. And that funding was essentially 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:27.130 cut about almost two years ago because the current administration 0:05:27.170 --> 0:05:28.910 deemed it unsafe for Americans. 0:05:29.430 --> 0:05:32.210 He and a bunch of other people were investigated, investigated 0:05:32.230 --> 0:05:32.990 by Congress. 0:05:33.290 --> 0:05:35.190 It's kind of a swirl of allegations, but. 0:05:35.570 --> 0:05:40.909 Essentially, the allegation is that they, under government pressure, sort 0:05:40.950 --> 0:05:45.700 of covered up the possibility of a lab leak. 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:47.380 And these are things that you. 0:05:47.300 --> 0:05:51.100 Hear from very prominent people, from elected officials and so on, 0:05:51.460 --> 0:05:55.740 there's a suggestion that Anthony Fauci somehow created the lab 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:58.360 leak and then covered it up or something like that. 0:05:58.420 --> 0:05:59.630 Or helped to fund the lab. 0:05:59.660 --> 0:06:02.010 Yeah, funded the lab that did the work and so on. 0:06:02.220 --> 0:06:04.920 But the upshot is Fauci denies this and you had 0:06:05.220 --> 0:06:07.760 these congressional hearings. Let me just play a clip from 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:13.050 Josh Hawley, a senator from Missouri, accuses him in this clip. 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:18.770 The intelligence community did not come to that conclusion. Multiple 0:06:18.930 --> 0:06:23.549 intelligence communities agents and components have concluded it was likely 0:06:23.630 --> 0:06:26.170 a lab leak. And they concluded that at the same 0:06:26.230 --> 0:06:30.290 time that you and your people were propagandizing the American 0:06:30.370 --> 0:06:33.710 public and using the channels and influence of the American 0:06:33.770 --> 0:06:37.359 government to censor ordinary Americans. That is the truth. I'm 0:06:37.380 --> 0:06:39.020 not going to sit here and allow you to lie 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:44.760 any further. Dr. Gary, you have disgracefully participated in shameful propaganda. 0:06:45.690 --> 0:06:47.740 that has been one of the worst chapters in this 0:06:47.779 --> 0:06:50.800 country's history with the government propagandizing its own people. And 0:06:50.820 --> 0:06:52.700 you know what? I'm not a scientist. I don't know. 0:06:52.740 --> 0:06:54.760 But what I do know is, what I do know is, 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:58.810 it is wrong to censor and lie to the American public. 0:06:58.930 --> 0:07:01.850 It is wrong to withhold critical information from them. And 0:07:01.890 --> 0:07:03.790 it is wrong to countenance that and to say, oh, 0:07:04.070 --> 0:07:06.310 I just had nothing to do with it. Gee, I 0:07:06.350 --> 0:07:08.750 wish we could have done better. You should have done better, sir. 0:07:09.170 --> 0:07:11.840 You should have done better. And because you didn't, people 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:13.170 have suffered. Thank you, Mr. 0:07:13.180 --> 0:07:13.360 Chairman. 0:07:13.380 --> 0:07:14.920 It was interesting. 0:07:15.500 --> 0:07:18.460 Is in the article you ask him several times about 0:07:18.990 --> 0:07:24.250 the origins of COVID, and he's very scientific about his answers. 0:07:24.270 --> 0:07:26.770 I mean, he's like, well, I don't know. I just 0:07:26.810 --> 0:07:29.670 did my scientific research. This is what I found. But 0:07:29.690 --> 0:07:31.810 there's a lot of emotion around this, and he becomes 0:07:31.860 --> 0:07:34.940 kind of a lightning rod, not just in front of Congress, 0:07:34.980 --> 0:07:37.340 but he is getting death threats and things like that. 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:40.060 So walk us through that part of his story. So 0:07:40.100 --> 0:07:42.160 he goes in front of Congress, and then what happens 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:42.400 to him? 0:07:43.170 --> 0:07:49.390 I mean, it's basically sort of a public demonstration that politics, 0:07:49.870 --> 0:07:53.390 that the people in power have decided that he's done 0:07:53.410 --> 0:07:56.530 something very wrong. At the center of this, and Jason 0:07:56.550 --> 0:07:58.470 and I get into this in the story, but the 0:07:58.510 --> 0:08:01.490 big evidence, as far as many of the lab leakers 0:08:01.770 --> 0:08:04.870 see it, that he did something wrong specifically and that 0:08:04.910 --> 0:08:07.210 some of these scientists did something wrong, is that there 0:08:07.250 --> 0:08:11.660 are private messages that early on in their research where 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:15.380 they express an openness to a lab leak. And then 0:08:15.420 --> 0:08:17.800 they later wrote a paper saying they didn't believe in 0:08:17.820 --> 0:08:19.880 the lab leak. And I think if you ask a 0:08:19.940 --> 0:08:22.840 scientist about that, you ask Bob Gehry about that, he 0:08:22.860 --> 0:08:25.179 would say, yeah, that's the scientific method. 0:08:25.220 --> 0:08:27.620 That is like what we do. We look at evidence, 0:08:27.660 --> 0:08:28.380 we consider them. 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:31.840 And even after we publish, we continue to be open 0:08:32.100 --> 0:08:35.020 if new evidence emerges. And I think there's something about 0:08:35.059 --> 0:08:38.140 the era that we live in today. We get a 0:08:38.220 --> 0:08:41.310 release like that. And instead of looking at it like, oh, 0:08:41.330 --> 0:08:44.490 these are some scientists who are being intellectually honest, it's 0:08:44.530 --> 0:08:47.480 sort of like, aha, they believed one thing then and 0:08:47.510 --> 0:08:48.550 now they believe a different thing. 0:08:48.820 --> 0:08:49.930 But that's the crux of it. 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:56.500 Also, that helps to illustrate why the public lost so 0:08:56.520 --> 0:08:59.359 much trust in science during the pandemic is that it 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:04.530 was just a misconception about how science works, that science 0:09:04.590 --> 0:09:08.890 is an iterative process. that it's not like math where 0:09:09.330 --> 0:09:14.910 one plus one equals two. In science, you're constantly challenging hypotheses. 0:09:15.050 --> 0:09:18.530 You're testing them with doing experiments and looking at the 0:09:18.590 --> 0:09:21.979 data and reanalyzing the data. But so far, the evidence 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:26.059 is in favor of it spilling over naturally, probably from 0:09:26.100 --> 0:09:28.000 the market in Wuhan. 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:33.260 There's another factor, which is that many people, including Bob Gehry, 0:09:34.179 --> 0:09:37.380 are trying to work within the system. And so Bob 0:09:37.460 --> 0:09:40.880 is not exactly throwing up his hands and saying that 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:44.120 the Trump administration has destroyed all of science. 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:45.600 We write about this in the story. 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:49.310 He is trying to find ways to essentially sell the 0:09:49.350 --> 0:09:52.550 Trump administration, sell the NIH, which still exists, which still 0:09:52.770 --> 0:09:56.910 has a lot of money appropriated by Congress on the 0:09:56.950 --> 0:10:00.740 research he's doing. And what's really happening is people like 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:05.140 him are just having to find different ways to sell 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:08.400 their research to decision makers. So like when we talk 0:10:08.470 --> 0:10:12.189 to Bob today, he'll talk about the economic impact of 0:10:12.250 --> 0:10:16.350 these viral pandemics. He has this really promising treatment for 0:10:16.410 --> 0:10:19.780 loss of fever, which Jason mentioned, really bad. Hemorrhagic fever 0:10:19.820 --> 0:10:22.699 kills 5,000 people a year or something like that. And 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:26.680 to convince the NIH to fund it, Bob is saying, hey, 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:30.250 if we don't deal with this, That's going to hurt U.S. 0:10:30.330 --> 0:10:35.359 mining interests because West Africa is a place where there's 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:35.840 a lot. 0:10:35.700 --> 0:10:37.540 Of mining, a lot of rare earths are mined. 0:10:37.660 --> 0:10:41.240 And if you can't keep foreign mining companies safe, you're 0:10:41.260 --> 0:10:42.140 not going to have that mining. 0:10:42.179 --> 0:10:43.600 It's bad for U.S. 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:43.920 Interests. 0:10:44.140 --> 0:10:48.660 So there's this kind of dance that many people who 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:50.960 have found themselves in these political storms have. 0:10:51.300 --> 0:10:51.800 Have to do. 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:54.950 And I think that you see this with CEOs. We 0:10:54.990 --> 0:10:56.870 saw this with Jerome Powell, Stacey. I kept thinking of 0:10:56.910 --> 0:10:58.870 Jerome Powell as we were reporting this story. 0:10:59.130 --> 0:11:01.570 You have been hanging around me for too long. 0:11:01.670 --> 0:11:05.170 Because it's like you have these people who find themselves 0:11:05.190 --> 0:11:08.260 at the center of a political storm and they have 0:11:08.300 --> 0:11:11.880 to find a way. to sort of maintain their professional credibility, 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:14.840 not just sort of totally bend the knee to the 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:17.620 Trump administration. But they don't want to go full resistance 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:20.140 either because they want to try to, like, work within 0:11:20.820 --> 0:11:21.420 the system. 0:11:21.740 --> 0:11:24.880 There's a quote from your story that really stuck out 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:28.370 to me where Dr. Gary says, quote, we've just come 0:11:28.380 --> 0:11:30.550 through this pandemic where 20 million people died. 0:11:30.670 --> 0:11:32.730 And what's our response? We're going to shut down work 0:11:32.830 --> 0:11:34.530 on viruses. I'm curious. 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:38.920 Maybe just personally about the man. What did he seem like? 0:11:38.990 --> 0:11:42.390 Did he seem like he felt defeated? Did he seem energized? 0:11:42.429 --> 0:11:44.490 I mean, it sounds like he's trying very hard to 0:11:44.530 --> 0:11:46.390 work within the system. Is he considering moving? 0:11:46.410 --> 0:11:51.250 I think Bob is a very stoic guy. He's weathered 0:11:51.270 --> 0:11:53.500 a lot of storms. And perhaps we can talk a 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:57.400 little bit about what happened in Katrina. He's not flustered easily. 0:11:57.420 --> 0:12:03.609 You saw him stand up in the congressional hearings and 0:12:03.990 --> 0:12:07.850 sticking to his science as he was essentially being attacked. 0:12:08.150 --> 0:12:12.450 He's baffled that this is the response, and I guess 0:12:12.510 --> 0:12:16.489 frustrated that it's led to funding cuts and diminution of 0:12:16.530 --> 0:12:21.420 his laboratory. But otherwise, I don't think that he is 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:25.860 unwavered in his pursuit of continuing to do science and 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:32.270 to benefit humans from treatments like a monoclonal antibody therapy 0:12:32.290 --> 0:12:33.170 for Lassa fever. 0:12:33.770 --> 0:12:38.550 How concerned are you as a reporter who's covered outbreaks, 0:12:38.570 --> 0:12:42.510 who's covering the Ebola outbreak in Central Africa right now? Like, 0:12:42.740 --> 0:12:47.640 how concerned are you about another pandemic? And how much 0:12:47.780 --> 0:12:50.840 damage do you think has been done in the kind of, 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:53.600 in the sort of attack on science part of this? 0:12:53.950 --> 0:12:57.270 Yeah, so I think if we look at the science part, 0:12:57.429 --> 0:13:01.270 we have better innovations. We have the rapid tests. We 0:13:01.309 --> 0:13:05.839 have mRNA technology. We have wastewater surveillance. We have a 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:09.620 number of tools that we didn't have before COVID-19. But 0:13:09.660 --> 0:13:15.960 we also have misinformation. We have a lot of fragmentation, polarization, politicization. 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:18.960 We have a lot of societal elements that mean that 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:23.059 we are going to be screwed when the next thing 0:13:23.140 --> 0:13:26.420 comes along. because we won't have anywhere near that kind 0:13:26.460 --> 0:13:30.540 of unity. If it's the current administration, I don't think 0:13:30.580 --> 0:13:36.270 that we'll have the science, the investments to really pursue 0:13:36.309 --> 0:13:39.730 this and do what's necessary to stop it as fast. 0:13:39.550 --> 0:13:39.990 As we can. 0:13:40.470 --> 0:13:42.240 Jason, thank you so much for joining us. 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:45.699 Stay healthy, Jason. Bring us some good news next time. 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:46.339 All right. 0:13:53.070 --> 0:13:58.719 Stacey Apple has a new CEO, John Ternes, replacing, sort 0:13:58.740 --> 0:14:00.720 of replacing, joining Tim Cook. 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:01.460 Yes. 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:03.020 Tim has not left. 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:04.260 In the C-suite. 0:14:04.970 --> 0:14:08.050 Also, there's going to be a big Apple launch event. 0:14:08.270 --> 0:14:11.010 Apple's got all these new products coming. And we've got 0:14:11.030 --> 0:14:13.410 the man who has been reporting on all of this, 0:14:13.620 --> 0:14:14.300 Mark Gurman. 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:15.860 Bloomberg Managing Editor. 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:20.560 He basically runs our consumer technology coverage and has been 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:23.760 covering Apple basically for as long as any of us 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:24.520 have been alive. 0:14:24.860 --> 0:14:25.440 Welcome, Mark. 0:14:25.820 --> 0:14:27.060 Thanks for having me. Good to be here. 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:28.820 Mark, before we get to. 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:32.380 The Apple drama, I wanted to just talk about this 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:36.450 broader thing that seems to be happening in consumer media. electronics, 0:14:36.490 --> 0:14:40.670 which is that we're seeing wearable technology come out in 0:14:40.700 --> 0:14:42.510 a bigger way than ever before. 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:45.180 And people have strong feelings about this stuff. 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:49.100 And in fact, we sent Jasmine JT Green, our producer, 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:53.780 to the Apple flagship store on Fifth Avenue just to 0:14:53.820 --> 0:14:56.040 kind of take the mood. 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:58.120 So let's just listen to that and then we can 0:14:58.140 --> 0:15:01.860 get in the conversation. What is your relationship with wearable technology? 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:04.740 Almost nonexistent. 0:15:05.100 --> 0:15:08.670 I think wearable technology has its advantages and its disadvantages. 0:15:08.970 --> 0:15:10.570 But I think it can be useful for things like 0:15:10.730 --> 0:15:12.960 accessibility and stuff like that. It can be really useful 0:15:12.980 --> 0:15:14.920 for people like that. So it's a very mixed bag. 0:15:15.060 --> 0:15:18.140 Completely not okay. Don't do that, please. 0:15:18.220 --> 0:15:19.940 I don't have a problem being recorded. 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:21.120 That's not the issue for me. 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:23.700 As long as it's away. 0:15:23.460 --> 0:15:24.460 From me to you. 0:15:24.620 --> 0:15:26.390 Do you feel like that's like a red flag? I. 0:15:27.260 --> 0:15:28.840 probably try and educate them more on the side of 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:30.460 it because maybe they're just not aware, but I would 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:31.480 strongly discourage it. 0:15:31.980 --> 0:15:35.720 Mark, what do you make of the kind of backlash? 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:38.000 You hear it a little bit in this clip. A 0:15:38.060 --> 0:15:40.239 lot of people are buying these things, but then you're 0:15:40.260 --> 0:15:44.260 also seeing bars banning them. You saw some very strong feel, 0:15:44.450 --> 0:15:46.910 even some strong feelings in that little bit of tape. 0:15:47.390 --> 0:15:52.489 I think that the concerns with AI are headed in 0:15:52.530 --> 0:15:57.310 the wrong direction. I think people are concerned about smart 0:15:57.350 --> 0:16:01.590 glasses recording you, smart glasses taking pictures of you, smart 0:16:01.630 --> 0:16:06.460 glasses being used as surveillance devices. And the problem for 0:16:06.500 --> 0:16:10.660 the industry is that these are coming from meta. And meta, 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:13.940 of all the big tech companies, has the worst privacy reputation. 0:16:13.980 --> 0:16:17.360 This all goes back to the Cambridge Analytica saga, yeah, 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:21.490 many years ago. I think if Apple was the first 0:16:21.550 --> 0:16:25.050 mover on these types of products, it would not be 0:16:25.590 --> 0:16:29.030 as significant of a backlash. You know, we're all talking 0:16:29.050 --> 0:16:30.250 about AGI, right? 0:16:30.430 --> 0:16:32.190 That's artificial generated intelligence. 0:16:32.570 --> 0:16:32.970 General. 0:16:33.230 --> 0:16:36.190 Or general intelligence. That's when the computers are like sentient. 0:16:36.550 --> 0:16:39.290 Yes, that's when the computers are sentient. And people are 0:16:39.620 --> 0:16:43.320 afraid of that. But there's actually something even more significant 0:16:43.340 --> 0:16:46.340 than that that should be on people's radars. And that's 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:49.220 the time, and I think we're a year or two 0:16:49.260 --> 0:16:52.390 away from this, that the AI gets so good AI 0:16:52.450 --> 0:16:55.540 models can build their own AI models. And those models 0:16:56.100 --> 0:16:56.560 can build. 0:16:56.440 --> 0:16:56.820 Their own models. 0:16:56.880 --> 0:16:58.380 A year away? That's like not that long away. 0:16:58.400 --> 0:16:58.980 Probably a year or two. 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:02.180 So wait, paint this dystopian future for us, Mark. Okay, 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:04.640 so we've got AI building AI. Like, take us down 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:05.460 this dark road. 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:07.720 Well, to take you down the dark road, I mean, 0:17:08.010 --> 0:17:12.129 just imagine how powerful the models are today. And imagine 0:17:12.170 --> 0:17:14.350 how scary it's going to be if they're able to 0:17:14.390 --> 0:17:16.310 create their own models that could do whatever they want. 0:17:16.730 --> 0:17:18.699 Frankensteins making Frankensteins. 0:17:18.780 --> 0:17:19.040 Right. 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:21.800 It's not the humans making the models anymore and setting 0:17:21.820 --> 0:17:24.880 the parameters. It's the AI doing it. And what came 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:27.659 to my head was that this needs to be regulated 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:29.500 and needs to be regulated fast before it gets out 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:32.060 of control. And then I think about what Apple's doing. 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:37.020 And Apple has fallen, I would say, backwards into this 0:17:37.140 --> 0:17:40.620 idea where they are doing AI. They call it responsible AI. 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:43.199 And they're doing it in a way where they're not overspending. 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:47.659 They're not a hyperscaler. And it's very limited degrees of AI. 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:52.060 And I'm thinking about, I'm like, look, ChatGPT, Claude, Siri AI, 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:54.940 these things are great as the new age search engine. 0:17:55.369 --> 0:17:57.510 These things are great for getting things done. These things 0:17:57.550 --> 0:18:00.870 are great for productivity. These things are great for creating files, 0:18:01.390 --> 0:18:04.770 editing video, like everything that could be used to be 0:18:04.810 --> 0:18:09.090 like an air pocket for the consumer, allowing customers, allowing users, 0:18:09.150 --> 0:18:12.070 allowing workers to do what they do today, but giving 0:18:12.109 --> 0:18:14.609 them a superpower, right? But once we were starting to 0:18:14.650 --> 0:18:18.560 talk about the AI being in this agentic type of AI, 0:18:18.619 --> 0:18:21.179 like AGI, and we started talking about models, creating their 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:23.840 own models, this is too much. We've gone too far. 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:27.260 And so the concerns are in the wrong place. It's 0:18:27.300 --> 0:18:30.109 not about the hardware. It's about these models and then 0:18:30.150 --> 0:18:32.389 being able to be duplicative. 0:18:33.190 --> 0:18:36.389 Apple has a new CEO, mentioned him, John Ternes. They're 0:18:36.510 --> 0:18:39.390 about to unveil a bunch of new products. Mark, take 0:18:39.450 --> 0:18:43.340 us through kind of your expectation of for what Apple's 0:18:43.500 --> 0:18:45.160 pipeline looks like? 0:18:45.380 --> 0:18:46.990 What are they going to announce at this event? 0:18:47.030 --> 0:18:49.450 And then what's coming in kind of the near term, 0:18:49.570 --> 0:18:53.470 you know, before the AI steals our humanity, hopefully. 0:18:54.090 --> 0:18:54.290 Okay. 0:18:54.490 --> 0:18:58.830 So Tim Cook takes over 2011, 10 year ends, just, 0:18:58.869 --> 0:19:01.690 you know, the last week or so. Major new product 0:19:01.710 --> 0:19:06.990 categories under Tim Cook. The Apple Watch, the AirPods, and 0:19:07.030 --> 0:19:10.630 the Apple Vision Pro. Three. Supposed to be more, but 0:19:10.820 --> 0:19:13.040 really let's just say it was three. It's not many. 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:15.420 If you want to count the Vision Pro, I mean, 0:19:15.600 --> 0:19:17.270 some would count it, some wouldn't count it because it's 0:19:17.290 --> 0:19:18.150 such a dud. Oh, those marks. 0:19:18.290 --> 0:19:20.310 So many iPhones sold. So many iPhones. 0:19:20.390 --> 0:19:21.230 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fine. 0:19:21.510 --> 0:19:25.409 But these next two to three years are going to 0:19:25.450 --> 0:19:29.950 be the most prolific new product years in Apple's history. 0:19:30.760 --> 0:19:33.560 Tim had three major new product categories in 15 years. 0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:37.300 We're talking close to 10 major new product categories in 0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:42.000 the next opening act of John Ternus' tenure. It'll all start. 0:19:42.740 --> 0:19:46.200 next Wednesday at the Apple Surprise and Shine event, with 0:19:46.270 --> 0:19:50.450 no surprises. You'll see the company's first foldable iPhone. That'll 0:19:50.490 --> 0:19:54.330 be a major new product category. The other major new 0:19:54.350 --> 0:19:59.340 product category being launched this year is a smart home display. 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:02.580 So it's like an Amazon Echo Show. It's got a 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:05.639 seven inch square screen, has facial recognition. You walk up 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:07.960 to it, have a bunch of people in the house. 0:20:08.060 --> 0:20:09.780 It'll know who's who and it'll tailor the product to 0:20:09.820 --> 0:20:12.619 your needs. content on the display and in the Siri 0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:16.220 AI to whoever's talking. So that's another new category that'll 0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:19.050 either be announced at this event or in October, but 0:20:19.070 --> 0:20:21.430 it should be out before end of year or early 0:20:21.490 --> 0:20:25.550