1 00:00:16,897 --> 00:00:29,337 Speaker 1: Pushkin Before we get started, let's talk about Pushkin Plus. 2 00:00:29,817 --> 00:00:34,417 Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus is a subscription podcast program available on Apple Podcasts. 3 00:00:34,977 --> 00:00:38,417 Speaker 1: Members will get access to exclusive bonus content like my 4 00:00:38,497 --> 00:00:41,177 Speaker 1: weekly bookmarks, where I talk about how I got a 5 00:00:41,177 --> 00:00:43,617 Speaker 1: book agent and what I'm watching on TV that week. 6 00:00:44,217 --> 00:00:47,937 Speaker 1: You'll get uninterrupted listening to many of your favorite podcasts 7 00:00:48,257 --> 00:00:53,177 Speaker 1: like Revisionist History, Cautionary Tales, and The Happiness Lab. Sign 8 00:00:53,217 --> 00:00:55,577 Speaker 1: up for Pushkin Plus on the show page in Apple 9 00:00:55,617 --> 00:01:08,097 Speaker 1: Podcasts or at pushkin dot m. Elizabeth Asaveado is a 10 00:01:08,177 --> 00:01:10,857 Speaker 1: poet and author who has crafted some of the most 11 00:01:10,937 --> 00:01:15,137 Speaker 1: insightful young adult poetry in recent years. The Dominican American 12 00:01:15,177 --> 00:01:17,977 Speaker 1: writer got her start in the slam poetry circuit as 13 00:01:18,017 --> 00:01:21,697 Speaker 1: a teenager. Her debut novel The Poet X, about a 14 00:01:21,737 --> 00:01:24,377 Speaker 1: fifteen year old girl in Harlem, one of the twenty 15 00:01:24,457 --> 00:01:28,817 Speaker 1: eighteen National Book Award in Young People's Literature. Elizabeth writes 16 00:01:28,937 --> 00:01:33,377 Speaker 1: novel in verse a single story over several poems. I 17 00:01:33,497 --> 00:01:36,417 Speaker 1: consider a poem something that is self contained that talks 18 00:01:36,457 --> 00:01:38,657 Speaker 1: about or explores a human experience in the least amount 19 00:01:38,697 --> 00:01:41,817 Speaker 1: of words possible, But a novel in verse may only 20 00:01:41,857 --> 00:01:45,937 Speaker 1: have maybe ten poems Her recent book, Clap with You 21 00:01:46,017 --> 00:01:49,297 Speaker 1: Land follows two teenage girls who learned they share the 22 00:01:49,377 --> 00:01:52,417 Speaker 1: same father after he dies in a plane crash. It 23 00:01:52,537 --> 00:01:56,217 Speaker 1: was interesting to feel like an outsider who had to 24 00:01:56,297 --> 00:02:00,617 Speaker 1: be really thoughtful and gentle and open to an experience 25 00:02:00,697 --> 00:02:03,737 Speaker 1: different than my own, even though I do know dr 26 00:02:04,057 --> 00:02:05,977 Speaker 1: but I've treated it with the respect as if I 27 00:02:06,017 --> 00:02:09,657 Speaker 1: were writing, and if miss Young as my own. Elizabeth 28 00:02:09,737 --> 00:02:12,297 Speaker 1: is a former eighth great teacher who is familiar with 29 00:02:12,337 --> 00:02:15,497 Speaker 1: the language of young people. This makes it easier for 30 00:02:15,577 --> 00:02:18,537 Speaker 1: her to write for and like them. It's just one 31 00:02:18,577 --> 00:02:37,017 Speaker 1: of the many reasons she's a success. Welcome to Well 32 00:02:37,097 --> 00:02:40,057 Speaker 1: Read Black Girl, the literary kickback you didn't even know 33 00:02:40,177 --> 00:02:45,777 Speaker 1: you needed. I'm your host, Glory Adam. Every week I 34 00:02:45,857 --> 00:02:48,737 Speaker 1: talked to writers and thinkers about their craft and how 35 00:02:48,777 --> 00:02:51,937 Speaker 1: their work shows up in the world. In this episode, 36 00:02:52,177 --> 00:02:55,777 Speaker 1: I speak with Elizabeth Ascevedo about how her music influenced 37 00:02:55,777 --> 00:02:58,657 Speaker 1: her poetry, why hip hop gave her the tools to 38 00:02:58,737 --> 00:03:02,217 Speaker 1: talk about her neighborhood and have her style puts her 39 00:03:02,257 --> 00:03:14,777 Speaker 1: in a league of her own. Elizabeth, Welcome to the 40 00:03:14,777 --> 00:03:17,897 Speaker 1: wild Ride Black Girl Podcast. I'm so excited too having here. 41 00:03:18,097 --> 00:03:20,857 Speaker 1: Glaurie I'm so happed to be here with you. You 42 00:03:20,897 --> 00:03:25,257 Speaker 1: know what. Let's start from the beginning. How did poetry 43 00:03:25,417 --> 00:03:28,697 Speaker 1: show up in your childhood? When poetry initially showed up 44 00:03:28,737 --> 00:03:31,457 Speaker 1: for me, I didn't know to call it poetry. My 45 00:03:31,537 --> 00:03:34,137 Speaker 1: grandfather had a third great education. He was a person 46 00:03:34,217 --> 00:03:37,337 Speaker 1: who would walk me to and from school every single day, 47 00:03:37,417 --> 00:03:40,537 Speaker 1: and he had these riddles that he had memorized. It 48 00:03:40,577 --> 00:03:43,977 Speaker 1: was lyrical, it was rhyme. It had the turns that 49 00:03:44,017 --> 00:03:45,657 Speaker 1: we are used to in a sonnet in terms of 50 00:03:45,657 --> 00:03:48,537 Speaker 1: a volta like. There were these arcs and his riddles, 51 00:03:48,577 --> 00:03:52,217 Speaker 1: and that was one of the earliest moments where poetry 52 00:03:52,297 --> 00:03:56,057 Speaker 1: was recited to me. My mother loves telling stories, and 53 00:03:56,097 --> 00:03:58,257 Speaker 1: so she was constantly telling me stories about when she 54 00:03:58,337 --> 00:04:00,617 Speaker 1: was younger and she used to ride horses. And so 55 00:04:00,857 --> 00:04:05,377 Speaker 1: for me, poetry arrived as a love of language, as 56 00:04:05,417 --> 00:04:08,217 Speaker 1: a love of what language allowed me to access, how 57 00:04:08,257 --> 00:04:11,897 Speaker 1: it connected me to a home I didn't always feel 58 00:04:11,937 --> 00:04:16,097 Speaker 1: a connection to. And I began writing rap initially, right 59 00:04:16,177 --> 00:04:18,097 Speaker 1: to me, that was where I wanted to go. I 60 00:04:18,137 --> 00:04:19,697 Speaker 1: wanted to be a hip hop star. I was waiting 61 00:04:19,737 --> 00:04:22,737 Speaker 1: for j Z to discover me right and so all 62 00:04:22,777 --> 00:04:25,457 Speaker 1: of that was poetry, but I just wasn't calling it 63 00:04:25,497 --> 00:04:28,617 Speaker 1: that yet. I love that well. I know you said 64 00:04:28,657 --> 00:04:31,577 Speaker 1: in the past that rappers were the original workshop leaders. 65 00:04:31,737 --> 00:04:36,417 Speaker 1: You know, so when you look at your favorite rappers musicians, 66 00:04:36,737 --> 00:04:39,177 Speaker 1: how have they kind of set an example for you? 67 00:04:39,297 --> 00:04:41,617 Speaker 1: And what were you trying to emulate? I think I 68 00:04:41,657 --> 00:04:44,377 Speaker 1: was trying to emulate how do I talk about my neighborhood. 69 00:04:44,377 --> 00:04:46,937 Speaker 1: How do I talk about folks in ways that feel 70 00:04:47,057 --> 00:04:50,057 Speaker 1: centered in that area? Right? And I think hip hop 71 00:04:50,217 --> 00:04:53,857 Speaker 1: never felt separate from the people was talking about. I'm 72 00:04:53,897 --> 00:04:55,577 Speaker 1: really hard on myself. I'm a little bit of a 73 00:04:55,577 --> 00:04:57,617 Speaker 1: perfectionist when it comes to my work. I want to 74 00:04:57,617 --> 00:04:59,417 Speaker 1: hold onto a book for a long time and make 75 00:04:59,457 --> 00:05:01,617 Speaker 1: sure it's perfect, that everyone who reads it is gonna 76 00:05:01,697 --> 00:05:05,377 Speaker 1: love it. And I think watching how I love certain 77 00:05:05,497 --> 00:05:08,337 Speaker 1: artists and maybe didn't love that last album or maybe 78 00:05:08,497 --> 00:05:11,257 Speaker 1: wasn't moved by quote unquote this particular You're the era 79 00:05:11,897 --> 00:05:14,497 Speaker 1: gives me a lot of freedom to realize, like, people 80 00:05:14,577 --> 00:05:17,897 Speaker 1: create and sometimes it hits and sometimes it doesn't. But 81 00:05:18,097 --> 00:05:22,177 Speaker 1: also to be an artist in your life for decades 82 00:05:22,577 --> 00:05:24,257 Speaker 1: means that you're going to put some stuff out that 83 00:05:24,577 --> 00:05:28,377 Speaker 1: isn't the perfection you want it to be, but it's 84 00:05:28,417 --> 00:05:32,577 Speaker 1: still moving your legacy or what you are leaving as 85 00:05:32,617 --> 00:05:35,577 Speaker 1: your body of work, right right, that's such a good point, 86 00:05:35,697 --> 00:05:39,097 Speaker 1: especially as your profile grows. You know, you are a 87 00:05:39,177 --> 00:05:41,697 Speaker 1: National Book Award winner, so we got like millions of 88 00:05:41,777 --> 00:05:45,217 Speaker 1: people reading your book without question. But there's something to 89 00:05:45,297 --> 00:05:48,897 Speaker 1: be said about separating yourself from the work, so you 90 00:05:48,897 --> 00:05:50,937 Speaker 1: can just be open to the critique and you can 91 00:05:50,977 --> 00:05:54,377 Speaker 1: be open to this idea that not everyone's going to 92 00:05:54,457 --> 00:05:57,297 Speaker 1: receive it the way you thought it would be received, 93 00:05:57,337 --> 00:06:01,097 Speaker 1: and that's okay, Yeah, for sure. I remember being young 94 00:06:01,137 --> 00:06:03,817 Speaker 1: and I loved Eve, and I loved Eve's first album, 95 00:06:04,097 --> 00:06:06,057 Speaker 1: and then she was talking about her sophomore album and 96 00:06:06,137 --> 00:06:08,377 Speaker 1: she was like, I'm so afraid of the sophomore slump. Like, 97 00:06:08,657 --> 00:06:10,297 Speaker 1: you know, you come out with something great and then 98 00:06:10,417 --> 00:06:12,297 Speaker 1: you just want to match that first thing. You don't 99 00:06:12,297 --> 00:06:15,737 Speaker 1: allow a second, third, fourth project to have its own life, 100 00:06:16,097 --> 00:06:19,977 Speaker 1: you know. I'm also thinking about this idea of space, 101 00:06:20,537 --> 00:06:22,697 Speaker 1: like what does it mean for you to take up 102 00:06:22,737 --> 00:06:24,897 Speaker 1: space where you need to and not just in the 103 00:06:24,977 --> 00:06:28,177 Speaker 1: physical form like I've seen you perform. But I just 104 00:06:28,217 --> 00:06:31,897 Speaker 1: remember being so captured by your voice and just completely 105 00:06:32,297 --> 00:06:36,017 Speaker 1: pulled in you have such a presence about you when 106 00:06:36,017 --> 00:06:39,337 Speaker 1: you're performing, and that presence definitely shows up on the 107 00:06:39,377 --> 00:06:42,977 Speaker 1: page as well. So can you talk to us about 108 00:06:42,977 --> 00:06:45,657 Speaker 1: how you cultivated that, how you learn to just be 109 00:06:46,417 --> 00:06:50,737 Speaker 1: in your body and understand your agency? You know? I 110 00:06:50,817 --> 00:06:52,937 Speaker 1: laugh a little bit because I'm like, if you only 111 00:06:53,017 --> 00:06:54,977 Speaker 1: knew what the struggles I've been having with being in 112 00:06:55,017 --> 00:06:59,497 Speaker 1: my body. Right, But I feel that there are times 113 00:06:59,537 --> 00:07:03,017 Speaker 1: on stage that I've felt the most me and the 114 00:07:03,057 --> 00:07:06,137 Speaker 1: best version of me. That there were moments when it 115 00:07:06,217 --> 00:07:09,057 Speaker 1: was quiet and I'm just holding this stage for ten 116 00:07:09,097 --> 00:07:11,977 Speaker 1: to fifteen minutes, you know. Sometimes I'm thirty, sometimes forty five. 117 00:07:11,977 --> 00:07:14,617 Speaker 1: When I was doing a full one woman show that 118 00:07:15,377 --> 00:07:18,617 Speaker 1: was very free. I have not always had a platform 119 00:07:18,617 --> 00:07:22,017 Speaker 1: where I could just talk for however long and people 120 00:07:22,137 --> 00:07:24,657 Speaker 1: just listen. And so I think that part of the 121 00:07:25,297 --> 00:07:27,857 Speaker 1: learning is like, how do I hold a room? How 122 00:07:27,897 --> 00:07:32,177 Speaker 1: do I ensure that I'm connecting, that I'm creating pauses? 123 00:07:32,617 --> 00:07:35,457 Speaker 1: I find that my books, I ask those same questions. 124 00:07:35,497 --> 00:07:38,057 Speaker 1: How do I ensure that my audience feels cared for? 125 00:07:38,497 --> 00:07:40,257 Speaker 1: What are the little things I can put in here 126 00:07:40,257 --> 00:07:42,817 Speaker 1: to let folks know, like, no, I'm writing to you right, 127 00:07:42,897 --> 00:07:44,817 Speaker 1: this is for you. And I think when I was 128 00:07:44,857 --> 00:07:47,337 Speaker 1: on stage it was that same thing, looking into an 129 00:07:47,377 --> 00:07:50,257 Speaker 1: audience and finding the people to make eye contact with 130 00:07:50,337 --> 00:07:52,457 Speaker 1: and the one person in the back who's nodding into everything, 131 00:07:52,497 --> 00:07:55,817 Speaker 1: and just like we are creating this together. And for me, 132 00:07:55,897 --> 00:07:58,297 Speaker 1: the books feel that way, right, Like what people bring 133 00:07:58,377 --> 00:08:01,057 Speaker 1: to a story affects their read I don't know if 134 00:08:01,097 --> 00:08:03,097 Speaker 1: you've had this glory where you read something you're like, oh, 135 00:08:03,137 --> 00:08:05,377 Speaker 1: this is not for me, right, you stop, you don't finish, 136 00:08:05,377 --> 00:08:06,697 Speaker 1: and then two years later you pick it up and 137 00:08:06,697 --> 00:08:09,737 Speaker 1: you're like, what was I thinking? Right? The book didn't change, 138 00:08:09,817 --> 00:08:12,537 Speaker 1: but you change your ability to be in that space, 139 00:08:12,617 --> 00:08:15,617 Speaker 1: your ability to lend your heart and your memories to 140 00:08:15,697 --> 00:08:17,977 Speaker 1: a book so that it opens up for you. And 141 00:08:18,097 --> 00:08:20,577 Speaker 1: maybe practicing that on stage has helped me be able 142 00:08:20,617 --> 00:08:23,217 Speaker 1: to do that with my books, Like I'm going to 143 00:08:23,337 --> 00:08:25,057 Speaker 1: give as much as I can so that when you 144 00:08:25,097 --> 00:08:27,857 Speaker 1: bring your full self, we're making something together. Right, that's 145 00:08:27,897 --> 00:08:31,537 Speaker 1: the story making. Oh that's so beautiful to just the 146 00:08:31,617 --> 00:08:34,137 Speaker 1: piggyback off of that. Can you talk about the first 147 00:08:34,177 --> 00:08:37,697 Speaker 1: poem that he wrote that made you understand that you 148 00:08:37,737 --> 00:08:40,817 Speaker 1: were going to be a poet? Yeah, I was really 149 00:08:40,817 --> 00:08:42,857 Speaker 1: young I was maybe eight or nine, and I remember 150 00:08:42,857 --> 00:08:46,457 Speaker 1: writing about dolphins. Dolphins don't kill dolphins, and birds don't 151 00:08:46,497 --> 00:08:49,377 Speaker 1: kill birds, but people kill people and that really hurts. 152 00:08:49,377 --> 00:08:51,737 Speaker 1: That's like probably one of the youngest, like just little 153 00:08:51,817 --> 00:08:55,657 Speaker 1: nine year old poem. Right, that's amazing, girl, girl, you 154 00:08:55,697 --> 00:09:00,057 Speaker 1: were deep listen and dolphins are actually really violent. Baby 155 00:09:00,137 --> 00:09:06,297 Speaker 1: listens was wishfully thanking, but it was always social. It 156 00:09:06,337 --> 00:09:09,417 Speaker 1: was always like social critique or why are we this way? 157 00:09:09,457 --> 00:09:11,337 Speaker 1: Like I just had so many questions and the writing 158 00:09:11,457 --> 00:09:13,657 Speaker 1: was where I could find those answers or at least 159 00:09:13,937 --> 00:09:18,057 Speaker 1: chronicle my wanderings. Right, Oh, I love that. I want 160 00:09:18,097 --> 00:09:22,137 Speaker 1: to talk about just like I'm thinking about modeling and 161 00:09:22,177 --> 00:09:25,177 Speaker 1: how you do that for so many people. And as 162 00:09:25,217 --> 00:09:28,057 Speaker 1: I was doing the rereading of your book, I noticed 163 00:09:28,097 --> 00:09:32,257 Speaker 1: the dedication and I was so impressed with your kindness 164 00:09:32,377 --> 00:09:35,457 Speaker 1: to dedicate it to Catherine and to your former students 165 00:09:35,497 --> 00:09:38,777 Speaker 1: at buck Lodge. Can you talk about that, why you 166 00:09:38,817 --> 00:09:42,297 Speaker 1: dedicated it to them and what it means for them 167 00:09:42,297 --> 00:09:45,217 Speaker 1: to show up in your story. Yeah. I was an 168 00:09:45,257 --> 00:09:48,897 Speaker 1: eighth grade English teacher before the poetics ever came out, 169 00:09:48,937 --> 00:09:51,417 Speaker 1: before I even had gone to Grand School and started 170 00:09:51,457 --> 00:09:55,417 Speaker 1: writing for touring and writing for publication, and teaching eighth 171 00:09:55,497 --> 00:10:00,537 Speaker 1: grade is like the cusp of when young people are 172 00:10:00,617 --> 00:10:03,897 Speaker 1: really going from being children to now having very new 173 00:10:03,937 --> 00:10:08,177 Speaker 1: expectations of young adulthood and hormones and feelings, and it's 174 00:10:08,177 --> 00:10:10,417 Speaker 1: really hard to teach that a rat. So I had 175 00:10:10,457 --> 00:10:13,697 Speaker 1: this student, Katherine Blane's, who I absolutely adored. She was 176 00:10:13,697 --> 00:10:17,057 Speaker 1: just the funniest, wittiest kid, and she was resistant to 177 00:10:17,137 --> 00:10:19,097 Speaker 1: silent reading time. And I remember being like, like, what 178 00:10:19,177 --> 00:10:20,817 Speaker 1: can I get you? I had to buy all the 179 00:10:20,897 --> 00:10:23,017 Speaker 1: like super dope fun books that I could get my 180 00:10:23,057 --> 00:10:24,617 Speaker 1: hands on it. She's just like, you know, not only 181 00:10:24,617 --> 00:10:27,097 Speaker 1: these books are about us. For her, it was I'm 182 00:10:27,097 --> 00:10:29,857 Speaker 1: a solidoring young woman. I need something else. And so 183 00:10:30,457 --> 00:10:33,457 Speaker 1: that felt like the baton that I needed at the time, 184 00:10:33,537 --> 00:10:35,657 Speaker 1: like why not you? And I had to start questioning, 185 00:10:35,657 --> 00:10:37,377 Speaker 1: why not me? I'm a writer, but what do I 186 00:10:37,417 --> 00:10:40,457 Speaker 1: think I don't have to offer literature that I don't 187 00:10:40,497 --> 00:10:44,177 Speaker 1: want to create a project specifically for these young people 188 00:10:44,337 --> 00:10:48,297 Speaker 1: that I know are yearning for this. And so the 189 00:10:48,417 --> 00:10:51,017 Speaker 1: dedication was for Catherine, it was for my students. I 190 00:10:51,017 --> 00:10:53,057 Speaker 1: think it was for my former self. But also that 191 00:10:53,177 --> 00:10:56,497 Speaker 1: dedication is a reflection of a dedication that Angela Johnson 192 00:10:56,977 --> 00:10:59,457 Speaker 1: in her book the first part last wrote for me, 193 00:10:59,857 --> 00:11:02,297 Speaker 1: where she wrote this is dedicated to Elizabel Savedo and 194 00:11:02,297 --> 00:11:04,457 Speaker 1: all the students at the Mahigh School for Children, because 195 00:11:04,457 --> 00:11:07,017 Speaker 1: I had written her a letter about her book Heaven, 196 00:11:07,337 --> 00:11:08,777 Speaker 1: and I was like, I love this book, but I 197 00:11:08,777 --> 00:11:11,297 Speaker 1: want to know more about this secondary character, these long 198 00:11:11,377 --> 00:11:13,657 Speaker 1: notes on what I thought she should right, and she 199 00:11:13,737 --> 00:11:16,057 Speaker 1: never wrote me back. But two years later this book 200 00:11:16,097 --> 00:11:18,217 Speaker 1: came out and the dedication was to me, And so 201 00:11:18,257 --> 00:11:21,417 Speaker 1: it felt like with my book when it comes out, 202 00:11:21,457 --> 00:11:25,297 Speaker 1: I want to pass on the young person who encouraged 203 00:11:25,377 --> 00:11:28,137 Speaker 1: me to go on the path of this project. So 204 00:11:28,137 --> 00:11:30,337 Speaker 1: it felt like in homage to Angela Johnson, but also 205 00:11:30,417 --> 00:11:33,697 Speaker 1: like who knows who else might be inspired by this 206 00:11:33,817 --> 00:11:37,737 Speaker 1: kind of dedication that is just such a wonderful story 207 00:11:37,777 --> 00:11:41,097 Speaker 1: that is so endearing and beautiful. I want to talk 208 00:11:41,097 --> 00:11:43,137 Speaker 1: about the young people because I'm just curious to hear 209 00:11:43,737 --> 00:11:46,257 Speaker 1: what you feel like they've taught you, Like were you 210 00:11:46,297 --> 00:11:48,257 Speaker 1: like listening to them in the classroom, Like how do 211 00:11:48,337 --> 00:11:50,937 Speaker 1: you why are you able to cultivate that? Because in 212 00:11:51,057 --> 00:11:52,977 Speaker 1: every one of your books, a clap when you land 213 00:11:53,017 --> 00:11:56,057 Speaker 1: the poet acts it sounds so authentic, and it does 214 00:11:56,137 --> 00:11:58,977 Speaker 1: feel like you have this kinship with young people where 215 00:11:58,977 --> 00:12:02,257 Speaker 1: you can get their voices, because sometimes you read by 216 00:12:02,297 --> 00:12:04,417 Speaker 1: a Bucks and you're like, oh, that's not how young people. 217 00:12:06,737 --> 00:12:10,177 Speaker 1: It really sounds like you understand who they are. I 218 00:12:10,257 --> 00:12:13,577 Speaker 1: try to really hone my ear in general, just when 219 00:12:13,577 --> 00:12:17,057 Speaker 1: I'm with folks, when I'm in community, I'm trying to 220 00:12:17,177 --> 00:12:20,777 Speaker 1: listen for cadences, how particular people bump words up against 221 00:12:20,777 --> 00:12:23,017 Speaker 1: each other. I was lucky to have been an HBRA 222 00:12:23,137 --> 00:12:25,337 Speaker 1: teacher who had a lot of writing projects assigned to 223 00:12:25,417 --> 00:12:27,577 Speaker 1: my students, so I got a sense of what they 224 00:12:27,577 --> 00:12:30,617 Speaker 1: would reveal, what they wouldn't reveal, what kinds of prompts 225 00:12:30,937 --> 00:12:34,297 Speaker 1: inspired them. I honestly would probably give the most credit 226 00:12:34,337 --> 00:12:37,897 Speaker 1: to having been the coach for the DCUTH Slam team. 227 00:12:37,937 --> 00:12:40,577 Speaker 1: I worked with young poets, which is a little bit 228 00:12:40,617 --> 00:12:43,337 Speaker 1: different because they were so motivated. They were engaging with 229 00:12:43,417 --> 00:12:46,377 Speaker 1: language constantly, and I got to hear how they were 230 00:12:46,497 --> 00:12:49,897 Speaker 1: advancing language, how they were moving it into a different step. 231 00:12:49,937 --> 00:12:52,017 Speaker 1: So I go to a lot of events where I'm 232 00:12:52,057 --> 00:12:54,177 Speaker 1: not the center. I'm sitting in the back somewhere and 233 00:12:54,217 --> 00:12:57,417 Speaker 1: I'm just listening to how young people expressed themselves, and 234 00:12:57,497 --> 00:12:59,217 Speaker 1: I have a lot of respect. I think maybe because 235 00:12:59,257 --> 00:13:00,977 Speaker 1: I was a young person who I've been mentored and 236 00:13:00,977 --> 00:13:04,777 Speaker 1: I remember vividly what mentors did or said that made 237 00:13:04,817 --> 00:13:09,737 Speaker 1: me feel valued. But I'm constantly listening After the break 238 00:13:09,897 --> 00:13:12,537 Speaker 1: More with the List with Asvedo on her writing and 239 00:13:12,617 --> 00:13:15,777 Speaker 1: research process for her latest book, Clap When You Land. 240 00:13:26,857 --> 00:13:29,377 Speaker 1: I'm Glory Adam and you're listening to well read Black 241 00:13:29,377 --> 00:13:33,657 Speaker 1: Girl today. I'm joined by Elizabeth Asvedo, poet and best 242 00:13:33,697 --> 00:13:36,617 Speaker 1: selling author of the poet X and Clap When You Land. 243 00:13:37,177 --> 00:13:40,537 Speaker 1: Elizabeth wrote both books as a novel inverse. This is 244 00:13:40,577 --> 00:13:43,937 Speaker 1: where a narrative is written using poetry instead of prose. 245 00:13:46,337 --> 00:13:50,337 Speaker 1: I really want to look at your process, right, So 246 00:13:50,737 --> 00:13:53,497 Speaker 1: with a novel in verse, like where do you begin? 247 00:13:53,857 --> 00:13:57,897 Speaker 1: Like sometimes when I'm reading poetry, it feels very interior, 248 00:13:58,017 --> 00:14:00,897 Speaker 1: it feels very abstract. At times, it can go anywhere 249 00:14:00,937 --> 00:14:04,097 Speaker 1: and there's so much metaphor. But when you're actually structuring 250 00:14:04,817 --> 00:14:07,217 Speaker 1: novel inverse, there's a story like you need to, like, 251 00:14:07,377 --> 00:14:09,337 Speaker 1: you know, get from a beginning to end in a 252 00:14:09,457 --> 00:14:13,417 Speaker 1: very precise way. So how do you construct your novels 253 00:14:13,457 --> 00:14:16,337 Speaker 1: so they can have that rhythm? And that structure. But 254 00:14:16,537 --> 00:14:19,817 Speaker 1: also I have the very delicate balance of poetry. I 255 00:14:19,857 --> 00:14:22,817 Speaker 1: consider a poem something that is self contained, that talks 256 00:14:22,817 --> 00:14:25,057 Speaker 1: about or explores a human experience in the least amount 257 00:14:25,057 --> 00:14:27,977 Speaker 1: of words possible. But the hardest thing with a novel 258 00:14:27,977 --> 00:14:31,057 Speaker 1: and versus that you're juggling narrative. Is there a plot? 259 00:14:31,137 --> 00:14:34,817 Speaker 1: Is there a story? Are my characters clear and language? 260 00:14:35,217 --> 00:14:37,177 Speaker 1: Then then this third piece that we just talked about, 261 00:14:37,257 --> 00:14:40,337 Speaker 1: which is and does it sound like a young person's voice? 262 00:14:40,417 --> 00:14:42,737 Speaker 1: Is this the kind of poetry a young person could write? 263 00:14:42,857 --> 00:14:46,097 Speaker 1: And that becomes hard. I have to separate the poet self, 264 00:14:46,137 --> 00:14:49,417 Speaker 1: who wants to be impressive, from the novelist self, who 265 00:14:49,577 --> 00:14:53,657 Speaker 1: wants to be expressive, and just like that meld of well, 266 00:14:53,697 --> 00:14:55,177 Speaker 1: it has to be a little bit of both. I 267 00:14:55,177 --> 00:14:57,497 Speaker 1: have to control it enough that a reader knows what 268 00:14:57,657 --> 00:15:00,977 Speaker 1: she's doing. And I feel safe in these pages because 269 00:15:01,137 --> 00:15:04,737 Speaker 1: I'm following someone who is tightly holding the story together. 270 00:15:05,177 --> 00:15:07,617 Speaker 1: For the most part, pieces I like to think of 271 00:15:07,657 --> 00:15:11,097 Speaker 1: them as hinges, So I create these moments that feel 272 00:15:11,377 --> 00:15:14,297 Speaker 1: really beautiful, like we're getting the character's heart, and then 273 00:15:14,337 --> 00:15:17,297 Speaker 1: I'm just connecting narrative to those pieces, and I'm letting 274 00:15:17,337 --> 00:15:20,377 Speaker 1: it like hinge between the next section and the next section. 275 00:15:20,417 --> 00:15:24,257 Speaker 1: But I think that I'm very mindful of the language 276 00:15:24,257 --> 00:15:26,977 Speaker 1: and the spacing and the line breaks because of the 277 00:15:27,017 --> 00:15:29,737 Speaker 1: ways that it creates breath on the page, momentum on 278 00:15:29,777 --> 00:15:32,857 Speaker 1: the page. It gives insight into the speaker or the 279 00:15:32,977 --> 00:15:36,337 Speaker 1: characters mindset. If there's no punctuation in a piece, like 280 00:15:36,377 --> 00:15:38,737 Speaker 1: you're moving through it a little bit faster. So there's 281 00:15:38,737 --> 00:15:41,497 Speaker 1: a lot of craft that I use that is from 282 00:15:41,697 --> 00:15:44,817 Speaker 1: having been a poet and learning what those tools are 283 00:15:44,857 --> 00:15:47,737 Speaker 1: that I bring here. I want to talk about your 284 00:15:47,777 --> 00:15:51,337 Speaker 1: relationship with Hair. I know your new book is coming 285 00:15:51,337 --> 00:15:56,697 Speaker 1: out Inheritance, and he decided to stop erform that poem. Yes, yes, 286 00:15:57,417 --> 00:15:59,937 Speaker 1: Why why did you decide to do that? And what 287 00:16:00,017 --> 00:16:04,577 Speaker 1: was the motivation? What are you trying to really express 288 00:16:04,657 --> 00:16:07,897 Speaker 1: to the reader? Yeah, I mean so the hair poem 289 00:16:08,057 --> 00:16:10,897 Speaker 1: is it's very much about just the reclamation of self love. 290 00:16:11,097 --> 00:16:13,497 Speaker 1: And I loved doing that poem for a long time, 291 00:16:13,537 --> 00:16:17,257 Speaker 1: and then I felt like I was getting cornered into oh, 292 00:16:17,297 --> 00:16:20,337 Speaker 1: she does the hair poem versus all the other kind 293 00:16:20,377 --> 00:16:22,697 Speaker 1: of writing I put into the world, or the other 294 00:16:22,737 --> 00:16:26,897 Speaker 1: poems that I have to perform. That poem outgrewmy in 295 00:16:26,937 --> 00:16:29,617 Speaker 1: a way that was difficult to catch up too, and 296 00:16:29,617 --> 00:16:31,817 Speaker 1: felt like it was restraining me a little bit, like 297 00:16:32,177 --> 00:16:34,017 Speaker 1: this is going to be the defining thing A poem 298 00:16:34,017 --> 00:16:35,737 Speaker 1: I wrote in two thousand and nine as a senior 299 00:16:35,737 --> 00:16:37,897 Speaker 1: in college, will be the last piece of literature that 300 00:16:37,977 --> 00:16:40,617 Speaker 1: like anyone cares about, right, And so I think I 301 00:16:40,777 --> 00:16:44,257 Speaker 1: slowly started moving away from that. We've had another natural 302 00:16:44,297 --> 00:16:46,577 Speaker 1: hair move in the last decade that felt like, all right, 303 00:16:46,617 --> 00:16:48,817 Speaker 1: the poem work, people are listening. You know, my job 304 00:16:48,897 --> 00:16:51,857 Speaker 1: here is done. It was an evolution of like, I 305 00:16:51,897 --> 00:16:54,057 Speaker 1: don't want to be the only one carrying this piece anymore. 306 00:16:54,497 --> 00:16:57,737 Speaker 1: But also that poem was written particularly and with my 307 00:16:57,777 --> 00:17:01,057 Speaker 1: mom as the person that a lot of those feelings 308 00:17:01,057 --> 00:17:04,177 Speaker 1: were targeted as. And as I've grown older, I realized 309 00:17:04,217 --> 00:17:06,257 Speaker 1: that some of my hesitation with that poem is that 310 00:17:06,897 --> 00:17:10,257 Speaker 1: who I am differs from the person who wrote it, 311 00:17:10,697 --> 00:17:13,777 Speaker 1: and so being able to revise it as a book, 312 00:17:13,817 --> 00:17:16,137 Speaker 1: I wanted it to be one that could be shared. 313 00:17:16,537 --> 00:17:19,897 Speaker 1: So as opposed to this is like my war cry 314 00:17:20,137 --> 00:17:22,977 Speaker 1: to my mother, I'm gonna love myself regardless of what 315 00:17:23,017 --> 00:17:25,137 Speaker 1: you think I should do with my hair. I wanted 316 00:17:25,177 --> 00:17:28,457 Speaker 1: it to be more of a praise poem to all 317 00:17:28,497 --> 00:17:31,097 Speaker 1: of us who hold our natural cells, including the mothers 318 00:17:31,097 --> 00:17:34,417 Speaker 1: who have protected us, you know, in terms of loving ourselves, 319 00:17:34,457 --> 00:17:37,097 Speaker 1: and the aunties and the uncles who this day and 320 00:17:37,137 --> 00:17:39,817 Speaker 1: age young people are growing up with. Right, we were 321 00:17:39,817 --> 00:17:43,497 Speaker 1: talking about music earlier. Do you feel like your work 322 00:17:43,577 --> 00:17:46,137 Speaker 1: has a very distinct rhythm? It's like sometimes I read 323 00:17:46,177 --> 00:17:48,937 Speaker 1: something like, okay, like this, Elizabeth Strait. You know what 324 00:17:48,977 --> 00:17:52,177 Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like, like, is that something that you feel 325 00:17:52,257 --> 00:17:55,057 Speaker 1: very intentional about where you want there to be a 326 00:17:55,097 --> 00:17:56,977 Speaker 1: rhythm or a kid and see your work every time 327 00:17:57,057 --> 00:17:59,697 Speaker 1: someone encounters it. Yeah, I mean I think that for sure. 328 00:17:59,857 --> 00:18:02,057 Speaker 1: Music in all of my work is a big part 329 00:18:02,097 --> 00:18:04,697 Speaker 1: of it. Even with the Fire on High Money Santiago story, 330 00:18:04,697 --> 00:18:07,217 Speaker 1: which is told in prose. I remember one of the 331 00:18:07,257 --> 00:18:10,777 Speaker 1: biggest challenges I had was it doesn't feel like the 332 00:18:10,857 --> 00:18:13,457 Speaker 1: language is doing enough, it doesn't feel beautiful enough. And 333 00:18:13,497 --> 00:18:16,217 Speaker 1: so going through every single chapter and making sure that 334 00:18:16,457 --> 00:18:19,137 Speaker 1: the chapter endings were really thoughtful and all of them 335 00:18:19,217 --> 00:18:21,737 Speaker 1: end on an image and all of them end internally 336 00:18:21,897 --> 00:18:24,937 Speaker 1: right to give it that interiority that you could get 337 00:18:24,977 --> 00:18:28,857 Speaker 1: from a poem. I say, with trying to capture the 338 00:18:28,977 --> 00:18:32,297 Speaker 1: imagery and ways that still lean into my poetic self, 339 00:18:32,337 --> 00:18:35,457 Speaker 1: because I think that that is where my voice is 340 00:18:35,577 --> 00:18:38,257 Speaker 1: most toned. It is in the music, in the words 341 00:18:38,297 --> 00:18:41,457 Speaker 1: I move against each other, and the images that most 342 00:18:41,497 --> 00:18:43,857 Speaker 1: people may not think of, And so I know that 343 00:18:43,897 --> 00:18:46,377 Speaker 1: those are my strengths and it's what I lean on, right, 344 00:18:46,617 --> 00:18:49,137 Speaker 1: And so that is style to some extent. But in 345 00:18:49,257 --> 00:18:51,617 Speaker 1: terms of my voice, yeah, I hope anyone could pick 346 00:18:51,697 --> 00:18:53,377 Speaker 1: up my work and be able to tell, like the 347 00:18:53,457 --> 00:18:56,617 Speaker 1: Cadence here is Elizabeth Aasavedo. Almost all my books start 348 00:18:56,657 --> 00:18:58,697 Speaker 1: with names, like the first section outright is just like, 349 00:18:58,697 --> 00:19:01,097 Speaker 1: what's the character's name? With their relationships of their name, 350 00:19:01,377 --> 00:19:03,897 Speaker 1: how does this reflect how they think about their parents 351 00:19:03,977 --> 00:19:06,137 Speaker 1: or their homes? And then sometimes there are poems that 352 00:19:06,217 --> 00:19:07,977 Speaker 1: end up before that are pieces that end up after, 353 00:19:08,097 --> 00:19:12,017 Speaker 1: But the name poem is often where I'm grounding myself 354 00:19:12,057 --> 00:19:14,697 Speaker 1: in the character and I spring from there. And you'll 355 00:19:14,737 --> 00:19:16,697 Speaker 1: find every single one of my books has some type 356 00:19:16,697 --> 00:19:20,377 Speaker 1: of meditation on needs. Yes, I did notice that when 357 00:19:20,417 --> 00:19:23,217 Speaker 1: you wrote a cop when you land like, were you 358 00:19:23,297 --> 00:19:27,057 Speaker 1: taking memories or experiences you had in the dr like 359 00:19:27,097 --> 00:19:30,457 Speaker 1: were you clapping when the plane landed? How did you 360 00:19:30,777 --> 00:19:34,777 Speaker 1: craft that narrative Clap when you land was a wild 361 00:19:34,857 --> 00:19:36,937 Speaker 1: ass story, right, because I've had this idea in my 362 00:19:36,977 --> 00:19:40,017 Speaker 1: head for over a decade about this plane crash that 363 00:19:40,177 --> 00:19:42,537 Speaker 1: happened when I was really young, and like the ways 364 00:19:42,617 --> 00:19:45,497 Speaker 1: that my community responded to it. So I knew that. 365 00:19:45,817 --> 00:19:47,657 Speaker 1: And what a lot of folks on know was that 366 00:19:47,697 --> 00:19:50,057 Speaker 1: initially that story, which has two different point of views, 367 00:19:50,097 --> 00:19:52,297 Speaker 1: was only written in one point of view. The entire 368 00:19:52,377 --> 00:19:54,457 Speaker 1: novel was just written from your high risk point of view. 369 00:19:54,657 --> 00:19:56,697 Speaker 1: And I was having a conversation with Evie's a boy 370 00:19:56,737 --> 00:20:00,577 Speaker 1: who wrote American Street Pride and is the editor of 371 00:20:00,617 --> 00:20:05,177 Speaker 1: Black Enough, amongst many other books, and Ebitaian and so 372 00:20:05,297 --> 00:20:07,177 Speaker 1: we share an island and I'm telling her about this 373 00:20:07,257 --> 00:20:09,577 Speaker 1: story and I'm like yes, and there's a secret sibling, 374 00:20:09,697 --> 00:20:12,417 Speaker 1: and the Eb's listening, and then she's like, so, are 375 00:20:12,457 --> 00:20:16,177 Speaker 1: you gonna write the secret simbling and I'm like no, Right. 376 00:20:16,377 --> 00:20:18,297 Speaker 1: I was so nervous because I was like, well, it 377 00:20:18,297 --> 00:20:20,057 Speaker 1: would be in dr and I would have to get 378 00:20:20,057 --> 00:20:24,537 Speaker 1: like the Dominicans from the Dominican Republic and Dominicans from 379 00:20:24,737 --> 00:20:28,497 Speaker 1: the diaspora, like those are different experiences, and so it 380 00:20:28,577 --> 00:20:32,297 Speaker 1: was interesting to feel like an outsider who had to 381 00:20:32,337 --> 00:20:36,697 Speaker 1: be really thoughtful and gentle and open to an experience 382 00:20:36,777 --> 00:20:39,777 Speaker 1: different than my own, even though I do know DR. 383 00:20:39,857 --> 00:20:43,257 Speaker 1: I have gone many many times, I have spent summers there, 384 00:20:43,377 --> 00:20:45,297 Speaker 1: but I've treated it with the respect as if I 385 00:20:45,337 --> 00:20:48,257 Speaker 1: were writing and if nessary other than my own. Right, 386 00:20:48,457 --> 00:20:52,337 Speaker 1: But the project of putting this book together was kind 387 00:20:52,337 --> 00:20:54,457 Speaker 1: of wild, and yeah, I clapped when I land, right 388 00:20:54,497 --> 00:20:56,217 Speaker 1: like I'm the only person on the time, and just 389 00:20:56,417 --> 00:20:58,977 Speaker 1: like y'all not gonna take this away from me. We 390 00:20:58,977 --> 00:21:00,817 Speaker 1: were just in a metal tomb and somehow that was 391 00:21:00,857 --> 00:21:04,857 Speaker 1: from there to ear. So yes, craisey. No, it's true. 392 00:21:04,897 --> 00:21:07,577 Speaker 1: It's like you have to acknowledge all the parts that 393 00:21:07,657 --> 00:21:10,057 Speaker 1: you know and then question the parts that you don't, 394 00:21:10,097 --> 00:21:12,497 Speaker 1: and they can lend together to make the story. And 395 00:21:12,537 --> 00:21:15,457 Speaker 1: I think people do that whether they're writing fiction or nonfiction. 396 00:21:15,577 --> 00:21:17,697 Speaker 1: It's like it makes it even more richer if you 397 00:21:17,737 --> 00:21:20,257 Speaker 1: do that research. How did that process go? Was it 398 00:21:20,297 --> 00:21:24,097 Speaker 1: primarily family members? Did you look online and not only 399 00:21:24,137 --> 00:21:26,217 Speaker 1: for a clap when you land, but all your books? Like, 400 00:21:26,217 --> 00:21:28,937 Speaker 1: how do you organize your research when you begin writing? Yeah, 401 00:21:29,057 --> 00:21:32,177 Speaker 1: I do a good amount of interviews with especially if 402 00:21:32,217 --> 00:21:35,417 Speaker 1: the background is Dominican with my family members and with 403 00:21:35,457 --> 00:21:37,977 Speaker 1: my cousins from dr Because sometimes things are just how 404 00:21:38,017 --> 00:21:39,977 Speaker 1: I was raised, and I think like, oh, this is 405 00:21:39,977 --> 00:21:41,977 Speaker 1: how Dominicans are raised. And sometimes I know my mom 406 00:21:42,017 --> 00:21:44,937 Speaker 1: just had her own idiosyncracies, right, and I can't just 407 00:21:45,177 --> 00:21:47,697 Speaker 1: melt that that is the way that all Dominicans do it. 408 00:21:47,737 --> 00:21:50,617 Speaker 1: So I like to kind of crowdsource, you know, if 409 00:21:50,657 --> 00:21:53,017 Speaker 1: something is of the community or of the culture, or 410 00:21:53,137 --> 00:21:56,337 Speaker 1: is it just my household. But I will say that 411 00:21:56,377 --> 00:21:57,977 Speaker 1: for a clap when you land. Like I said, I 412 00:21:57,977 --> 00:22:01,737 Speaker 1: spend time in Sosua and working with young people and 413 00:22:01,777 --> 00:22:04,017 Speaker 1: so getting a sense of like the lives that they 414 00:22:04,097 --> 00:22:06,377 Speaker 1: live there. I do a lot of Google mapping where 415 00:22:06,417 --> 00:22:09,497 Speaker 1: I see neighborhoods. So when I wrote with Monty Santiago story, 416 00:22:09,857 --> 00:22:12,977 Speaker 1: I looked at at Fair Hill and I considered what 417 00:22:13,057 --> 00:22:15,337 Speaker 1: do the streets look like, and what is Allegheny Avenue 418 00:22:15,337 --> 00:22:17,137 Speaker 1: look like? And I've gone to Philly plenty of times. 419 00:22:17,137 --> 00:22:18,977 Speaker 1: I taught in Philly, but I went back to the 420 00:22:19,017 --> 00:22:22,017 Speaker 1: high school. I had a culinary arts kitchen and studies 421 00:22:22,057 --> 00:22:24,177 Speaker 1: and sat in class and watch the students and how 422 00:22:24,217 --> 00:22:26,897 Speaker 1: they worked and how the teacher made assignments how he 423 00:22:26,937 --> 00:22:31,057 Speaker 1: created assignments. And so my research is very much being 424 00:22:31,097 --> 00:22:33,977 Speaker 1: in the moment, kind of getting a sense of what 425 00:22:34,097 --> 00:22:36,137 Speaker 1: I don't know. Right, So I write a lot and 426 00:22:36,257 --> 00:22:37,977 Speaker 1: then I go in and try to figure out, Okay, 427 00:22:37,977 --> 00:22:41,097 Speaker 1: where do I up my background knowledge on this thing. 428 00:22:41,537 --> 00:22:43,777 Speaker 1: You're you're like a method actor. You're like, I'm gonna 429 00:22:43,777 --> 00:22:46,777 Speaker 1: go in, I'm gonna sit with the students. I'm here hustling. 430 00:22:47,137 --> 00:22:49,617 Speaker 1: I appreciate it. No, it's real. I mean I don't 431 00:22:49,697 --> 00:22:53,697 Speaker 1: want I'm not out here writing arcs. I write character sketches. 432 00:22:53,777 --> 00:22:56,577 Speaker 1: But the work is the work, you know what I mean? Like, 433 00:22:56,657 --> 00:22:58,657 Speaker 1: the work is the actual work, and that's the writing 434 00:22:58,697 --> 00:23:02,777 Speaker 1: and the imagination, and then you make it true. It's 435 00:23:02,817 --> 00:23:08,417 Speaker 1: some for a rapid fire. So it's like the first 436 00:23:08,417 --> 00:23:13,097 Speaker 1: thing that comes to your mind. Name a book on 437 00:23:13,177 --> 00:23:18,057 Speaker 1: your nightstand. I'm reading Easa Ray's Awkward Black Girl. Oh really, 438 00:23:18,177 --> 00:23:21,137 Speaker 1: I'm late. I'm late, but I'm just like Etha, my 439 00:23:21,177 --> 00:23:24,857 Speaker 1: best friend. She doesn't know she's so great. If you 440 00:23:24,977 --> 00:23:27,537 Speaker 1: had a rap or hip hop career, what would be 441 00:23:27,577 --> 00:23:33,137 Speaker 1: your rap name? Well, at one point I lived in 442 00:23:33,217 --> 00:23:36,337 Speaker 1: Southeast DCA. So I used to call myself mouthpiece from 443 00:23:36,377 --> 00:23:42,577 Speaker 1: Southeast so that this is what hurder. You can only 444 00:23:42,817 --> 00:23:47,817 Speaker 1: choose one the House on Mango Street or before we 445 00:23:47,817 --> 00:23:51,977 Speaker 1: were free, the House on Mango Street, favorite Dominican dish. 446 00:23:52,057 --> 00:23:55,257 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with the famous Stu Sancocho, which is 447 00:23:55,537 --> 00:24:00,577 Speaker 1: Everybody's homecoming. And Penny, what was the first poem you 448 00:24:00,697 --> 00:24:04,137 Speaker 1: memorized by heart? Lucia Clifton's Won't You Celebrate with Me? 449 00:24:04,257 --> 00:24:06,697 Speaker 1: The last three lines, which go, won't you celebrate with Me? 450 00:24:07,177 --> 00:24:10,377 Speaker 1: That every day something has tried to kill me and 451 00:24:10,457 --> 00:24:13,897 Speaker 1: has failed. I've since memorized like maybe three four other 452 00:24:13,937 --> 00:24:15,977 Speaker 1: of her poems. She's the only person who like I 453 00:24:16,057 --> 00:24:19,137 Speaker 1: literally carry in my body alongside my whole wood. Yeah. 454 00:24:19,377 --> 00:24:23,417 Speaker 1: Last one. Most memorable open mic moment as a young poet. 455 00:24:23,617 --> 00:24:26,617 Speaker 1: I remember performing at the Brooklyn Academy of Music, and 456 00:24:26,657 --> 00:24:28,697 Speaker 1: this was probably one of the biggest stages I've ever 457 00:24:28,777 --> 00:24:31,457 Speaker 1: been on. I mean, there's nothing like being fifteen and 458 00:24:31,537 --> 00:24:34,377 Speaker 1: getting a standing ovation. There's nothing that will ever prepare 459 00:24:34,417 --> 00:24:37,817 Speaker 1: you for, like people getting on their feet because something 460 00:24:37,897 --> 00:24:40,577 Speaker 1: you said. I think that there was something about that 461 00:24:40,697 --> 00:24:44,617 Speaker 1: that showed me like, oh, language harnesses a lot, you know, 462 00:24:44,857 --> 00:24:50,577 Speaker 1: it can hardness all of this. Thank you so much. 463 00:24:50,617 --> 00:24:54,417 Speaker 1: For joining me and just sharing your process and just 464 00:24:54,497 --> 00:24:56,937 Speaker 1: giving us so much, giving us the Elizabeth rhythm. I 465 00:24:56,977 --> 00:25:00,017 Speaker 1: really appreciate you, Glory. I'm so happed to be here 466 00:25:00,017 --> 00:25:05,617 Speaker 1: with you. It was a delight after the break. Bookshop 467 00:25:05,617 --> 00:25:08,177 Speaker 1: owner Lucy You of New York see You and Me 468 00:25:08,657 --> 00:25:11,537 Speaker 1: will share her story of being the first Asian American 469 00:25:11,577 --> 00:25:30,177 Speaker 1: woman to open a bookstore in Manhattan's Chinatown. This week, 470 00:25:30,337 --> 00:25:33,377 Speaker 1: Lucy You of New York's You and Me talks about 471 00:25:33,417 --> 00:25:36,337 Speaker 1: how she went from being a chemical engineer to bookshop 472 00:25:36,337 --> 00:25:41,777 Speaker 1: owner during the pandemic. I think my nerdiness translates to 473 00:25:41,817 --> 00:25:45,097 Speaker 1: both engineering and books, and it was a reliable career path, 474 00:25:45,217 --> 00:25:46,817 Speaker 1: you know. I had the four one K and made 475 00:25:46,857 --> 00:25:49,457 Speaker 1: my Asian parents proud. They're like, good job, like engineer, 476 00:25:49,937 --> 00:25:52,057 Speaker 1: but it wasn't really fulfilling for me. I don't think 477 00:25:52,097 --> 00:25:55,017 Speaker 1: it ever was to open up a bookstore in the 478 00:25:55,057 --> 00:25:58,577 Speaker 1: middle of a pandemic. I think any business expert would 479 00:25:58,577 --> 00:26:01,337 Speaker 1: have been like, what are you thinking? But I think 480 00:26:01,657 --> 00:26:06,377 Speaker 1: the hunger for having stories that represent people that look 481 00:26:06,417 --> 00:26:10,297 Speaker 1: like me and people that have immigrant stories, people that 482 00:26:10,377 --> 00:26:13,017 Speaker 1: have experience is similar to mine is always going to 483 00:26:13,097 --> 00:26:15,777 Speaker 1: be there, regardless of whether or not. We're in a pandemic, 484 00:26:16,017 --> 00:26:18,697 Speaker 1: and I really wanted to create a home for that, 485 00:26:18,817 --> 00:26:21,177 Speaker 1: and create a home where people can come in and 486 00:26:21,297 --> 00:26:23,537 Speaker 1: see stories on the walls that they feel close to. 487 00:26:24,177 --> 00:26:27,137 Speaker 1: I had experienced, unfortunately, the loss of one of my 488 00:26:27,177 --> 00:26:30,257 Speaker 1: best friends in the last year, and I think we 489 00:26:30,417 --> 00:26:33,257 Speaker 1: all went through so much loss and so much trauma 490 00:26:33,337 --> 00:26:36,497 Speaker 1: and so much grief, and I poured so much of 491 00:26:36,537 --> 00:26:39,537 Speaker 1: that into the passion that I always wanted to do, 492 00:26:39,617 --> 00:26:43,497 Speaker 1: which is create a bookstore. I found so much comfort 493 00:26:43,577 --> 00:26:47,417 Speaker 1: and safety and love within books and stories, and I 494 00:26:47,457 --> 00:26:50,977 Speaker 1: think what I saw that was lacking was stories that 495 00:26:51,017 --> 00:26:53,257 Speaker 1: we're really pushed on the forefront, especial with people of 496 00:26:53,257 --> 00:26:56,217 Speaker 1: color writing them and being at the center of the focus. 497 00:26:56,537 --> 00:26:59,577 Speaker 1: It's actually always been there, but in terms of what's 498 00:26:59,577 --> 00:27:01,817 Speaker 1: being pushed by the publishers, I don't think it's always 499 00:27:01,857 --> 00:27:04,697 Speaker 1: been a top priority. So I wanted to create a 500 00:27:04,737 --> 00:27:07,577 Speaker 1: home for that. The Chinese own community has just welcomed 501 00:27:07,577 --> 00:27:11,017 Speaker 1: me with open arms. It feels like one big fan Emily. 502 00:27:11,217 --> 00:27:13,417 Speaker 1: I mean, the first day that I moved into this 503 00:27:13,497 --> 00:27:17,017 Speaker 1: retail space, the dumpling shop next to her Tasty Dumpling, 504 00:27:17,337 --> 00:27:20,817 Speaker 1: they brought in like thirty dumplings to just welcome me 505 00:27:21,017 --> 00:27:23,857 Speaker 1: into the neighborhood. That kind of love and that kind 506 00:27:23,897 --> 00:27:26,937 Speaker 1: of language with food. That was always my mom's way 507 00:27:26,937 --> 00:27:28,977 Speaker 1: of saying I love you, I care about you, Let 508 00:27:29,057 --> 00:27:33,297 Speaker 1: me give you food without explicitly saying so. That's translated 509 00:27:33,377 --> 00:27:35,657 Speaker 1: so much to the neighborhood here. So I feel very 510 00:27:35,737 --> 00:27:38,297 Speaker 1: much at home and have been welcomed very much like 511 00:27:38,537 --> 00:27:45,817 Speaker 1: home as well. Listen to more conversations with bookshop owners, 512 00:27:45,857 --> 00:27:51,017 Speaker 1: community members, and literary advocates on Bookmarks exclusively on Pushkin Plus. 513 00:27:53,937 --> 00:27:57,417 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Assavado has a distinct voice as an author that 514 00:27:57,577 --> 00:28:00,537 Speaker 1: comes from her experience as a poet and her love 515 00:28:00,577 --> 00:28:04,337 Speaker 1: for the rhythms and cadences of hip hop music. What 516 00:28:04,537 --> 00:28:07,657 Speaker 1: makes her writing so exciting is that you believe in 517 00:28:07,697 --> 00:28:11,257 Speaker 1: what she's saying. She brings you into her world with ease. 518 00:28:11,697 --> 00:28:16,137 Speaker 1: Reading her books feels like revisiting your favorite song. I 519 00:28:16,217 --> 00:28:18,897 Speaker 1: believe the truest test of any author's work is not 520 00:28:19,017 --> 00:28:22,697 Speaker 1: about the awards they win, but who remembers the work deeply, 521 00:28:23,457 --> 00:28:26,497 Speaker 1: what happens to their work after it's published. I know 522 00:28:26,617 --> 00:28:29,897 Speaker 1: young people will be reading Elizabeth's work for years and 523 00:28:30,017 --> 00:28:34,537 Speaker 1: years to come. Plap when you Land is out now 524 00:28:34,577 --> 00:28:39,497 Speaker 1: if you haven't gotten it yet. In our next episode, 525 00:28:39,537 --> 00:28:42,977 Speaker 1: I'll be joined by Honore Phenone Jeffers to talk about 526 00:28:43,017 --> 00:28:46,297 Speaker 1: her debut novel, The Love Songs of w E. B. 527 00:28:46,577 --> 00:29:00,617 Speaker 1: Du Bois. Well Read black Girl is a production of 528 00:29:00,737 --> 00:29:04,937 Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries. It is written and hosted by me Glory 529 00:29:05,137 --> 00:29:10,337 Speaker 1: Dam and produced by Scher Vincent and Brittany Brown. Are 530 00:29:10,457 --> 00:29:14,497 Speaker 1: So Shod. Editor is Keishell Williams, Our engineer is Amanda 531 00:29:14,617 --> 00:29:19,977 Speaker 1: k Wang, and our showrunner is Sasha Matthias. Our executive 532 00:29:19,977 --> 00:29:24,817 Speaker 1: producers are Miya Lobell and Lee Taal Molad. At Pushkin 533 00:29:24,977 --> 00:29:30,417 Speaker 1: thanks to Heather Fane, Carl Migliori, Jason Gambrel, Julia Barton, 534 00:29:31,137 --> 00:29:36,737 Speaker 1: Jen Goerra, John Schnars, and Jacob Wiseberg. You can find 535 00:29:36,777 --> 00:29:39,497 Speaker 1: me on Twitter and Instagram at Well Read black Girl. 536 00:29:39,857 --> 00:29:42,697 Speaker 1: You can find Pushkin and all social media platforms at 537 00:29:42,737 --> 00:29:45,737 Speaker 1: Pushkin Pods, and you can sign up for our newsletter 538 00:29:45,777 --> 00:29:49,897 Speaker 1: at pushkin dot Fm. If you have a question, a recommendation, 539 00:29:50,057 --> 00:29:53,497 Speaker 1: or you just want to say hi, emails at WRBG 540 00:29:53,857 --> 00:29:57,897 Speaker 1: at Pushkin dot Fm. If you love this show and 541 00:29:58,017 --> 00:30:02,937 Speaker 1: others from Pushkin Industry, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin 542 00:30:02,977 --> 00:30:06,377 Speaker 1: Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and 543 00:30:06,617 --> 00:30:10,497 Speaker 1: uninterrupted listening for four ninety nine a month. Look for 544 00:30:10,777 --> 00:30:14,577 Speaker 1: Pushgun Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, and if you're already 545 00:30:14,617 --> 00:30:18,497 Speaker 1: a subscriber, make sure to check out my exclusive Bookmark series. 546 00:30:18,737 --> 00:30:22,497 Speaker 1: You'll hear extended interviews with book club members, bookstore owners, 547 00:30:22,577 --> 00:30:25,457 Speaker 1: and more. And do you get to hear what's on 548 00:30:25,497 --> 00:30:29,097 Speaker 1: my mind, what's on my radar, and of course, what's 549 00:30:29,177 --> 00:30:33,777 Speaker 1: on my reading list each week. To find more Pushgun podcasts, 550 00:30:33,897 --> 00:30:38,177 Speaker 1: listen on iHeartRadio, app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you like 551 00:30:38,337 --> 00:30:38,857 Speaker 1: to listen