WEBVTT - CLASSIC: Locked Up and Lost: Healthcare in the Prison System 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:04.120 Fellow conspiracy realist. We returned to you this evening with 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:11.160 a classic episode about a terrible, terrible conspiracy that continues 0:00:12.360 --> 0:00:16.959 today in twenty twenty four and continued far before we 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:19.800 first spoke about this in twenty nineteen. 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:24.919 Oh yeah, and we've learned so much more about the 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:28.760 prison system and healthcare, you know, as two separate things 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:31.880 since that time. I'm specifically thinking back to the discussion 0:00:31.920 --> 0:00:34.640 you guys had with the Lava for Good folks, like 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:38.600 all the different hosts there, and just learning about the 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:41.960 dangers of the prison system. But the weirdest thing, the 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:45.680 weirdest thing for me was learning from them through you guys, 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:50.320 that private prisons are actually way smaller of a deal 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:53.880 than I thought because there's so fewer of them. 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:56.160 But yet they're the ones that get all the headlines. 0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:59.680 Right, Yeah, well that's the headlines, and that's at least 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:02.800 my perception. And the reason why that was mind blowing 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:06.800 to me is because I imagined there was pretty good healthcare 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:10.000 for prisoners because there is a profit motive to keep 0:01:10.040 --> 0:01:13.600 that prisoner alive and in jail, because the private prison 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:18.120 gets money per person per bed, right, But that's not 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:21.360 that's not the way it goes in most prisons. 0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:24.679 Accurate. Let's check out the episode. 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:29.960 From UFOs to Psychic Powers and government conspiracies. History is 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:34.360 riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:36.440 learn this stuff they don't want you to know. 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:40.559 A production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works. 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:51.520 Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:52.160 my name is Nolan. 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:54.120 They call me Ben. When we were joined with our 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:58.160 super producer Paul Michigan, control decand most importantly, you are you. 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:01.760 You are here that makes this stuff they don't want 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:05.240 you to know. We've been going down some dark alley 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:10.200 ways figuratively speaking or conversationally speaking in the past few episodes, 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:13.440 and you know, honestly, we're getting to a point where 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:17.280 maybe we should do something a little more lighthearted in 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:19.639 the future. Well that's not true. We have a lighthearted 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:23.679 interview for the Legend of Cocaine Island that's out now 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:27.080 by the time you hear this. So that's a fun listen, right. 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:30.520 Right, Yeah, We've got stuff unicorns don't want you to 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:31.320 know on the slate. 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:35.080 M Okay, yeah, I know. Well it's weird because I 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:38.640 was thinking I was reading something about unicorns oddly enough, 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:42.519 now that you mentioned this, wherein someone who was a 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:46.280 zoologist of some sort of another said, based on the 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:48.560 fact that they had a single horn, and based on 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:50.760 the fact that was positioned in the center of their 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:55.080 forehead facing forward, what that tells us about their behavior. 0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:58.920 It's very similar to rhinos. So unicorns, if they did exist, 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:03.160 would probably be legerent, antagonistic animals, capable of great violence. 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:06.400 They'd be very stabby, and that's something unicorns don't want 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:06.920 you to know. 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:11.200 That's right, not the profile, Yeah, exactly, all the glitter 0:03:11.720 --> 0:03:13.320 and all the shininess. 0:03:13.040 --> 0:03:14.440 And they're weird thing with virgins. 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:17.079 Have you seen that movie Legend with a very very 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:17.840 young Tom. 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:20.120 Cruise and a very awesome Tim Curry. 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:22.800 Very awesome Tim Currey wearing a giant rubber satan suit, 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:25.079 And there's a whole thing where they like the unicorns 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:27.320 play a big part in that, very very important. 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:31.760 There's also the animated The Last Unicorn, which is really sad. Yeah. 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:36.160 Yeah, I was thinking about the Brie Larson, her directorial debut, 0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:38.560 something about the Unicorn Store something to that. 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:41.360 Effects on Netflix. Now it is is it spoiler alert? 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:43.920 Does not seem to have anything to actually do with unicorns, 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:45.360 I know, just putting that out. 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:47.320 Well, thank you guys, you've saved me a few hours. 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:49.240 No, it else has absolutely nothing to do with unicorns. 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:53.800 The healthcare in the prison systems. So the US healthcare 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:57.000 system is by any measure, no matter how you look 0:03:57.040 --> 0:03:59.280 at it, no matter what your opinion is, and everybody 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:03.240 has opinions about this, by any measure, it's anomalous. One 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:07.240 of the world's wealthiest countries with one of the world's 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:14.080 worst performing healthcare sticks. You know, like not in comparison 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:18.080 to very very impoverished countries so much as in comparison 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:23.640 to other countries we would consider peer countries economically. Right. Yeah, 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:26.240 And there's the one thing we all agree on is 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:31.719 that this thing is rife with problems. It's lousy with 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:34.760 problems and things that don't work, and it's complicated by 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:36.520 the fact that there is a ton of money wrapped 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:41.400 up in this issue. Doctors make a ton of money, hospitals, 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:45.160 of course, insurance companies make tons of money. There's a 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:48.080 lot writing on this, and that means there's also extensive 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:51.880 propaganda in play. We will hear some people say, well, 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:56.080 the entire problem with US healthcare is that it is 0:04:56.120 --> 0:05:00.200 to a great degree run by privatized insurance companies, that 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:03.280 they're the root of the problem as they continually put 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:07.400 profits over the greater good. For some people, that's fighting words. 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:09.719 For other people, it's like, you know, shrug, dot gift, 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:13.800 that's what companies do, that's what for profit businesses do. 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:17.080 Other people say, no, it's broken. But the problem is 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:22.120 not honest, red blooded American business. It's that the government 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:25.560 is involved. And every time Uncle Sam is involved in something, 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:29.800 it's going to be ruinous because the government is inefficient 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:33.440 and corrupt. Sometimes that's a sincere argument. Sometimes it's a 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:35.920 Star of the Beast argument. Depends on what you hear about. 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:39.919 And today's episode is not about that cartoonishly tragically comic 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:43.919 state of medical care in the US overall. That's probably 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:47.320 its own podcast. Today's episode instead is about one of 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:50.839 the worst case scenarios for anyone who lives in this 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:54.760 country and ever gets sick orrever needs some sort of 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:58.640 medical treatment. Healthcare in prison. 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:01.760 Two things you don't want to be a part of. 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:05.719 Sick and incarcerated. So just to get a better understanding 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:08.839 of this problem, it's best to start with some statistics. 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:11.000 We all love those. So let's look at just the 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:14.839 US population in general. As of twenty eighteen, the population 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:18.000 in this country was three hundred and twenty seven point 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:21.480 two million human beings. Twenty eight point seven percent of 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:24.880 the population is under the age of eighteen, so you know, 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:28.279 that's almost a third of the people very very young. 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:32.200 About fifteen point six of the population is over the 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:35.880 age of sixty five. And then that leaves the people 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:39.560 who are not minors, you know, who are eighteen and 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:44.320 they're also not they're above eighteen below senior citizen, which 0:06:44.360 --> 0:06:47.240 are going to be the primary, the primary age range 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:49.440 for people who are incarcerated. 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:53.880 Right right, the regular, the regular Joe's and James. This 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:57.800 is interesting that fifteen point six percent number for elderly 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:01.920 and senior citizens makes sense because do in large part 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:04.280 to the way the healthcare system here does or does 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:10.960 not work, We have a disturbingly low life expectancy compared 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:14.120 to other what are called first world countries or other 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:18.960 developed countries is a better phrase. So's that's the population 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:21.760 by the numbers. What about the medical stuff? Do we 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:23.120 have any stats for that? 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:27.520 Yeah, so the US spends way more on healthcare than 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:33.040 any other nation. On this here globe three and forty 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:37.640 eight dollars per person, which amounts nearly eighteen percent of GDP, 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:42.280 which seems bonkers to me. Government funded Medicare and Medicaid 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:44.920 account for more than a dollar of every three dollars 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:48.280 of US healthcare spending, and a dollar every four dollars 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:52.200 in the federal budget. The entire federal budget, we know 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:55.440 is a is like seems like one of those imaginary numbers, 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:57.200 you know, the trillions. 0:07:57.400 --> 0:08:03.080 Yeah, it's largely, it is largely a series of which 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:06.440 is promises, increasingly ambitious pitches. I was going to say 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:10.240 from Congress. Absolutely, and and it's been growing, right, it's 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:12.760 been growing Medicare at least that more than twice the 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:15.920 rate of inflation. It's forecast to accelerate as what we 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:23.080 call the baby boomer generation ages increasingly into that elderly demographic. 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:28.400 So that's one thing upon which we cannot blame millennials. Sorry, 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:30.760 I know some of us in the audience are dig that. 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:34.280 But yeah, and then that's just for Medicare. That's that's 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:36.640 the part that the government helps out with, right, right, 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:39.320 And that's for people who do have Medicare, you're considered 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:42.480 to have healthcare. There are a lot of other healthcare 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:45.880 comes from employers, kind of like what we have sitting 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:48.440 in this room, including Michigan control over there. 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:53.520 You're absolutely right, Matt twenty sixteen. Private health insurance covered 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:58.800 more people than the government does. So you pay like 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:03.040 think of think of every country as a club. We've 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:08.160 said this before in previous episodes. The concept of taxes, 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:12.880 the concept of taxation is at heart in a very 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:17.080 oversimplified way, it's the same thing as paying dues to 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:23.240 a club, country club perhaps, sure, a country club, a 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:26.920 chess club that has a nice HQ, if they have those. 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:31.040 The idea is, you pay into this thing, and because 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:34.520 you've paid into this thing, you get certain rights. So 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:37.800 you're a country club, a golf club, whatever. That goes 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:40.000 to the maintenance of the place, but it also goes 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:43.040 to the maintenance of things you use. So the argument 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:45.080 that people will have is that, well, if you pay 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:49.920 taxes here in a country, then those taxes should guarantee 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:53.400 some of your rights, guarantee some maintenance, and then arguably 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:56.480 they could be in a situation where they pay to 0:09:56.679 --> 0:10:01.040 help keep you alive or at least make your existence 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:03.199 a little bit less painful than it would be without 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:06.800 health insurance. Again, not everybody agrees with that. A lot 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:09.520 of people think privatization is the answer. So that's why 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:13.920 employer based coverage covers more than half of the population 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:16.320 for part or all the calendar year. And then there's 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:20.000 Medicaid nineteen point four percent, Medicare sixteen point seven percent, 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:23.600 what's called direct purchase, I go out and buy my 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:27.120 own stuff sixteen point two percent of people either thought 0:10:27.120 --> 0:10:28.920 that was a good idea or were forced to do 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:33.760 it through things like Cobra right, or military coverage four 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:36.160 point six percent. You're going to lay your life on 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:39.200 the line for a country. The least we can do is, 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:41.760 you know, not put you in the poorhouse if you 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:45.640 have cancer, although that still happens. But this number doesn't 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:50.000 answer everything, because despite all these different kind of partial 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:53.800 band aids for keeping people alive and healthy, twenty eight 0:10:53.800 --> 0:10:57.160 point five million people in this country have no form 0:10:57.160 --> 0:11:01.600 of health insurance whatsoever all the year, all the livelong day. 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:05.360 Yeah, eight point eight percent. At least that's as of 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:06.320 twenty seventeen. 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:10.480 Right, that number may have gone up or down a 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:14.120 little bit, but it hasn't moved a ton yet. It 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:17.319 may very well in the near future, in the next 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:18.960 three ten years. Right. 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:22.480 Not to mention the fact that I don't know how 0:11:22.480 --> 0:11:24.679 this figures is the puzzle here, but I think it's 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:27.360 fascinating and it certainly should be part of the conversation. 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:31.760 It costs an average of thirty one thousand dollars per 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:36.720 inmate per year to incarcerate an individual. It's like tax 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:39.760 payer money. So it's just crazy to me that if 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:42.360 we're paying that much to incartrate a person, yet people 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:46.760 outside of the prison system, we wouldn't even consider spending 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:49.360 that much on them and their well being. 0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:50.280 It is. 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:53.880 It is cheaper, or it has been for a number 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:59.280 of years. It is cheaper for the United States, on 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:03.160 a state and federal level to send someone to community 0:12:03.240 --> 0:12:07.960 college for two to four years and pay for their 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:11.200 dorm or their apartment than it is to incarcerate them. 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:18.120 And that's something I learned via Little Wayne originally true story, 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:21.640 but yeah, but it's true. It's we can get into 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:24.960 the political reasons for that, because the argument here doesn't 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:27.280 bear out when you look at the math. It bears 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:30.040 out when you look at what people like voting for, right, 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:32.520 which is a little bit of a simplified way to 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:34.680 say it, but it's true, and it's a big business. 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:37.760 The US locks up a lot of people. I was 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:41.000 thinking about this earlier. I was going to say they 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:43.040 lock up tons of people, and then I read back 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:45.000 through it, and it's true. If you do the math 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:47.680 on how much a single person weighs, and you do 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:49.840 the math on how many people are locked up, we 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:52.839 are literally locking up tons and tons of people, tons 0:12:52.880 --> 0:12:56.600 of human flesh. Our prison population rate is roughly seven 0:12:56.679 --> 0:13:00.000 hundred per one hundred thousand. That makes it the second 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:04.679 highest incarceration rate of two hundred and twenty two countries 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:08.840 tracked by the Institute for Criminal Policy Research, and that 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:15.560 is such a large net to cast the ICPR study 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:19.440 right now, the UN doesn't recognize two hundred and twenty 0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:23.280 two countries, so they gave everybody a chance. This country 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:27.480 locks up a half million more than China, and that 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:31.560 has a population five times larger than the US. This country, 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:33.720 and this is a statistic that many of us have 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:36.320 heard before, and I wish it wasn't still true. This 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:40.400 country holds twenty five percent of the world's prison population. 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:46.679 Twenty five percent. Yeah, it's worse though, because the statistic 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:49.720 that follows right after, we're only five percent of the 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:53.960 people in the world, which means that, if you think 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:56.760 about it, just from living here, you have one of 0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:59.760 the highest chances in the world of going to prison. 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:02.800 Yep, Okay, So what was it we said, three hundred 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:07.040 and twenty seven something million people in the United States. Well, 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:11.720 the American criminal justice system holds within it incarcerated human 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:16.920 beings two point three million people. That's crazy. There are 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:20.840 and it holds them in over seventeen hundred state prisons. 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:23.760 There are one hundred and two federal prisons, and then 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:28.600 eighteen over eighteen hundred juvenile correctional facilities. Then there are 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:31.080 also like that. Okay, and that's just starting right. Then 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:33.960 you go down another level. You get to the local jails. 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:36.360 They wouldn't even be really called a prison, just a jail, 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:38.920 a holding cell kind of thing. There are three thy 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:41.800 one hundred and sixty three of those, and there are 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:46.720 also eighty Native American like they're called Indian country jails. 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:50.560 Well that's not even talk, dude. We're not even thinking 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:53.440 about military prisons, the brig yeah, and the oh, the 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:56.720 detention facilities like immigration facilities. 0:14:56.280 --> 0:15:00.920 The bizarre and labyrinthine network of detention centers. Yeah, that's 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:03.680 that's that's a whole on other conversation. 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:06.480 There, one of which was famously until quite recently, a 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:10.840 series of fences set up under a bridge. Yeah, civil 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:16.280 commitment centers, state psychiatric hospitals, which are still around, mostly privatized, 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:17.920 but still exists to some degree. 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:21.840 You can be held without against your will in those facilities. 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:25.440 And prisons in US territories which occupy an even more 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:33.000 murky legal space, including Gano, including Guantanamo. Yeah, every year 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:37.200 six hundred and twenty six thousand people walk out of prison, 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:42.720 but they go to jail ten point six million times 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:47.800 each year. Jail and prison are as as many people will, 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:50.600 as many people attest. Jail and prison are two very 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:56.440 different beasts. Jail churn is pretty high because most people 0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:58.720 in jail have not been convicted. 0:15:58.960 --> 0:15:59.680 They're just waiting. 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:05.040 Yeah, they've been arrested. They're desperately using that trope and fiction. 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:08.480 They're one phone call to get a bail bondsman, or 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:11.000 to get some money together to get out before they 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:14.080 have to go to trial, or in many, many, many, 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:19.480 many cases, they are too poor. And you know, justice 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:21.720 is a slot machine that only takes dollars. 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:25.720 So if jail is like a holiday, in prison is 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:30.120 like a living community of some kind in an apartment building. 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:34.040 Yeah yeah, So again, jail is like kind of like 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:36.560 a slot machine that only takes dollars. So other people 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:39.080 are too poor to make bail and they have to 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:42.400 stay behind bars until their trial. And we've all seen 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:45.960 these stories, right, There's somebody who has arrested for something. 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:49.360 Maybe it's a case, wrong place, wrong time, but they 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:52.600 can't make bail, and so they're in jail for what months, 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:55.080 and then they go to trial and the judge is like, 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:56.040 who is this guy? 0:16:56.480 --> 0:17:00.000 Not to mention they're in jail because they've done something. 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:02.360 Then they can't make bail, so then they lose their 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:06.040 jobs because they're sitting in jail, and it just creates 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:09.159 this cycle of being able to not afford anything that 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:11.920 the system foists upon you, especially then once you are 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:15.080 convicted and then have some kind of you know, fee 0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:17.240 schedule that you have to deal with, but you've lost 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:20.639 your job and become unemployable again, probably another conversation, but 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:22.439 it's a problematic cycle. 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:26.439 And this number might surprise some folks. Met you recently 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:29.240 gave us the statistics of some people in jail. But 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:32.199 of those people in jail, only about one hundred and 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:35.960 fifty thousand or so on any given day have actually 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:39.320 been convicted, and most of them to take your holiday 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:45.159 in comparison or the apartment comparisons. They're generally serving sentences 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:48.480 that are less than a year, and almost half a 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:52.600 million people are locked up purely because of drug offenses. 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:57.840 So mainstream media, right, we all know and love our 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:02.679 favorite fiction films and stories, often depicts the incarcerated population 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:07.639 in some in some wild extremes, right, there are two 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:12.239 or three big stereotypes we see people incarcerated. There are 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:15.480 either woefully disenfranchised, you know what I mean, The system 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:18.640 is broken. It crushed my life, you know, I got 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:23.320 arrested wrongfully, but I lost everything while I was waiting 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:25.600 for my day in court. Or there might be the 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:30.160 other extreme where these people are absolute suicide squad level 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:35.119 monsters and the state is being too nice by putting 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:37.639 these people in time out for life and should just 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:40.879 kill them. And then you'll see things like red and 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:45.960 Shawshank redemption right, who who has attained wisdom or higher 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:50.199 enlightenment despite their physical confines and stuff like that. But 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:54.040 regardless of how these people are depicted in fiction, life 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:57.000 on the inside is not like what you'll see in 0:18:57.040 --> 0:18:59.879 a lot of those things. Like what's that HBO series 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:03.600 OZ got praised for being a little more realistic than most. 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:06.840 Yeah, that show is insanely good. It was also like 0:19:06.880 --> 0:19:09.680 one of the early big HBO dramas, So it has 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:13.480 this look of like video where it looks very real, 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:16.000 almost like you're watching a play, but it's like it's 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:18.480 I love everything about that shows it's super great. 0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:19.320 Does it hold up? 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:20.240 It does? 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:20.800 Okay? 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:22.560 I mean I don't know. It's a little data because 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:25.320 it's super square, like the framing or whatever. And also 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:27.560 some of the some of the performances are a little 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:30.200 over the top, but no, the stuff that it covers, 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:34.159 it's very theatrical, but it's also very grounded in reality. 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:38.000 Mmm, sort of a harbinger of the gritty realism of 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:43.960 Orange is the New Black. So, regardless of any of 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:47.280 us listening now, regardless of our stance on the prison system, 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:51.320 whether you think it's chugging right along, whether it's the 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:54.600 best we can do, even if it's not perfect, whether 0:19:54.640 --> 0:19:57.080 you think it's broken, whether you think it's a system 0:19:57.160 --> 0:20:02.080 meant to oppress certain demographics here in this country. It's 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:06.280 clear that crime does continue inside the walls of penitentiaries. 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:10.520 There are gangs everywhere. People love all the vices still, 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:17.040 you know what I mean, drugs, sensual pleasure, old fashioned violence, 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:19.760 and the chances of that kind of violence are always 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:23.280 somewhere in the cards. But to activist policymakers and others, 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:26.560 there is another criminal in the mix here. And it's 0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:29.520 not a criminal that you're going to see on America's 0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:32.639 Most Wanted. It's not a criminal that you will see 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:37.760 in a highly publicized OJ Simpson level trial, right. 0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:40.679 No, you would see them in the ads in between 0:20:40.720 --> 0:20:41.560 those programs. 0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:46.760 That's right, we're talking about insurance companies. Wait, our insurance 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:51.439 companies criminals. You might be saying, kind of, let's have 0:20:51.480 --> 0:21:03.199 a word from our sponsor. Is where it gets crazy. 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:07.440 So well, let's call this part healthcare, profit and public perception. 0:21:08.560 --> 0:21:12.600 In twenty seventeen, the Bureau of Justice Statistics released a 0:21:12.720 --> 0:21:16.199 study and they said that nearly half of the people 0:21:16.280 --> 0:21:20.560 held in jails suffer from some sort of mental illness, 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:24.879 and more than a quarter have a severe condition such 0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:29.679 as bipolar disorder. And again as we as we noted 0:21:29.720 --> 0:21:34.440 with jail, many of the people in jail are just waiting, 0:21:34.520 --> 0:21:38.359 they're churning through. They haven't been convicted and sentenced to 0:21:39.520 --> 0:21:42.800 that misdemeanor. That's less than a year. But in the 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:46.560 same year twenty seventeen, the Bureau reported that about two 0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:51.760 thirds of sentenced inmates in jail suffer from drug addiction 0:21:52.040 --> 0:21:56.840 or dependency. And that conclusion they made this is the 0:21:56.880 --> 0:22:01.280 scary part. It comes from numbers in two thousand and 0:22:01.359 --> 0:22:04.440 seven to two thousand and nine, which means it largely 0:22:04.520 --> 0:22:09.320 does not account for the opioid crisis. Wow. 0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:15.800 Yeah, Wow, that's uh, that's tough. Well, well, here's the 0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:18.160 other thing. So you've got a life sentence, let's say 0:22:18.160 --> 0:22:19.960 you're going to be in prison for a long time. 0:22:20.000 --> 0:22:22.440 You're also going to be dealing with just what happens 0:22:22.440 --> 0:22:25.600 to your body as you're getting older. Just age related stuff, right, 0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:29.439 like all kinds of diseases, all kinds of stuff that 0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:32.880 you need medication for, stuff that you need maybe even 0:22:32.960 --> 0:22:38.320 some I don't know, recovery, physical recovery from and work on. 0:22:38.800 --> 0:22:41.679 And these people are dealing with that. There's also you know, 0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:44.760 we talked about the addiction, the mental illness, and when 0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:47.320 you put these together, kind of as you're saying, Ben 0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:51.399 getting older, being addicted to something, probably maybe continuing to 0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:55.360 be addicted while you're in while you're incarcerated, and then 0:22:55.400 --> 0:22:57.800 also you know, having to deal with the mental illness. 0:22:57.800 --> 0:23:00.600 It all kind of just adds up into this pretty 0:23:00.640 --> 0:23:05.520 brutal thing where you're going to be probably experiencing withdrawal symptoms, 0:23:05.600 --> 0:23:09.960 especially early on in your situation there. So, like I guess, 0:23:10.000 --> 0:23:13.360 the first year of prison, which is what you were saying, 0:23:13.400 --> 0:23:15.119 a lot of people actually only spend about a year 0:23:15.119 --> 0:23:17.520 and there it can be extremely rough on your health. 0:23:17.840 --> 0:23:22.479 Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean imagine if you are, if 0:23:22.520 --> 0:23:27.320 you are encountering withdrawal symptoms from some sort of drug addiction, 0:23:27.720 --> 0:23:33.560 and the medical staff on hand says we're not going 0:23:33.640 --> 0:23:36.320 to give you your drug of choice, but then another 0:23:36.320 --> 0:23:39.120 inmate sidles up to you, maybe in the yard, and says, hey, 0:23:39.600 --> 0:23:42.199 I can help you out if you do something for me. 0:23:43.280 --> 0:23:48.320 Dangerous times right, And now, I guess we can take 0:23:48.320 --> 0:23:51.760 a moment to talk about the politics here, because I'm 0:23:51.800 --> 0:23:55.800 sure as we're exploring this, a lot of us are thinking, well, 0:23:56.600 --> 0:24:00.960 people aren't in prison for good behavior. No one has 0:24:01.000 --> 0:24:04.480