1 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff 2 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:19,600 Speaker 1: I've never told you production. iHeartRadio and today we are 3 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:23,600 Speaker 1: so so happy for this episode is an exciting episode 4 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:26,799 Speaker 1: because we are joined by our friends. We don't know 5 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: you very well, Katie, but we will and we're going 6 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 1: to be friends. I'm Mekkadie and Eves Yes, who are 7 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:38,639 Speaker 1: the hosts of the new podcast on Theme. Welcome, Thank 8 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:39,919 Speaker 1: you so much for joining us. 9 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 2: Thank you happy to be here. 10 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 1: Yay, yes? So can you tell us a little bit 11 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: about yourselves and how you met and then how this 12 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 1: podcast came to be? 13 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 3: So I will say just the very barest minimum about myself, 14 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 3: since I think a lot of your listeners will already 15 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 3: familiar with me. 16 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 2: But for those of you who are just tuning in now, 17 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 2: I am Eves. 18 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 3: I am a writer and a podcaster and if you 19 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 3: have listened to Sminty before, then you've probably hurt me 20 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 3: on the Female First episodes, where I talk about different 21 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 3: women in history who have their own respective firsts of 22 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 3: their accomplishments and how they contributed to their specific lineages 23 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 3: and industries and fields. 24 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:27,040 Speaker 2: And I am. 25 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 3: Co host so one half of the podcast on Theme, 26 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 3: which is a podcast about black storytelling. I have known 27 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 3: Katie for a very long time, but since a lot 28 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 3: of your audience may not know Katie, I'll let Katie 29 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 3: talk about who she is and whatever. 30 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 2: However you want to introduce yourself. 31 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 4: Thank you. I am Katie Mitchell. 32 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 5: I am also the co host of On Theme, and 33 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 5: I am a bookstore owner. I'm a book writer, amongst 34 00:01:56,160 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 5: other things. And I've known Eve since I was ten 35 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 5: years old and we used to work on school projects 36 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 5: together and this is our first adult project together. 37 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 2: So that's exciting. 38 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 6: Ya Oh, I love everything about that. 39 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 3: I was thinking, we've known each other for twenty years now, 40 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 3: and I was like, I'm really getting old because in 41 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 3: my head it's always fifteen. Like for some reason, I 42 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 3: got stuck at fifteen. Yeah, you know, I like to 43 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 3: pretend I'm five years younger. I guess in the rich 44 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 3: history of Black women, actually I'm staying at one age 45 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 3: for a long time. 46 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 6: I appreciate that. I want to, like richt tell myself 47 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 6: to that. I want to stop. 48 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, just pick age and like I like it. 49 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 7: I'm gonna stay there. Oh wow, twenty years though, so 50 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,360 Speaker 7: it's ten years old. That's a good friendship. Not many 51 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 7: last that long. And I love that you like each 52 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,639 Speaker 7: other enough that you're gonna warn together as adults. 53 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 4: Yeah that's real. 54 00:02:57,720 --> 00:02:58,639 Speaker 6: That's real. 55 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:00,919 Speaker 2: And we're committed to continue to like each other. 56 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 5: Yeah yeah. I was like, if we stop liking the podcast, 57 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,239 Speaker 5: we have to keep liking each other exactly. 58 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:11,639 Speaker 1: It's a good role. That's a good role to have. 59 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: I'm interested in your your book writing bookstore side, Katie. 60 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 1: Can you explain more about that. 61 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, So I have a bookstore called Good Books, 62 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 5: and during the pandemic is when, like you know, everyone 63 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 5: was like supporting black businesses, especially black bookstores, so it 64 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 5: really took off and I was approached by an agent 65 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 5: was like, oh, have you ever thought about writing a book? 66 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 5: And I feel like a lot of people just have 67 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 5: like two three books in them, like ready to go. 68 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 5: And I was like, yes, I do. So I pitched 69 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 5: a book about black bookstores in the United States, and 70 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 5: so that's what I'm working on now. So it's called 71 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 5: Pros to the People. It's going to be a coffee 72 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 5: table type book and lots of picture there's lots of documents, like. 73 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 4: All that good stuff. I'm really excited about it. 74 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 5: I went around the country this summer talking to different 75 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 5: black owned bookstores and just getting their stories down in 76 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 5: one volume, because currently the stories are all over the place, 77 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 5: and I just want to have like that history and 78 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 5: like those stories that you know didn't make it into 79 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:23,040 Speaker 5: the newspaper or onto the list of calls, like somewhere 80 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 5: that we can all really enjoy it and experience it together. 81 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 6: That's amazing. I think we wouldn't need to put that 82 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:29,679 Speaker 6: on our book club list. 83 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 4: Oh I love that. 84 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:34,719 Speaker 6: Oh yeah that's coming. 85 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 1: Yes, you should come back and talk about it when 86 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 1: it comes out. We would love that. 87 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 5: I am available to talk to anyone and everyone that 88 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:48,480 Speaker 5: come out awesome. 89 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:52,919 Speaker 1: How has the podcasting world been for you? 90 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 5: Well, like, for the the book stuff is very slow, 91 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:01,359 Speaker 5: and I came from the tech space before the book world, 92 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 5: and I'm used to super fast, fast, like why haven't 93 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 5: you done this yet? And so I was bringing that 94 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 5: energy to the book the publishing world. 95 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 4: They're like, girl, calm down, like who are you? 96 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 5: But then with the podcasting stuff, when it's like you know, 97 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 5: you have to put out something every week for our show, 98 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:20,039 Speaker 5: it's like okay, It's like this is more of the 99 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 5: pace that I'm used to So it's kind of like 100 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 5: that whiplash, like, Okay, am I supposed to be going 101 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 5: fast and like doing stuff? Or am I supposed to 102 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 5: like say that I'm going to have something by the 103 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,039 Speaker 5: end of the month and really mean like two months 104 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 5: from now. So it's definitely a balance working on two 105 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 5: things at the same time with such different different paces. 106 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: Yes, yes it is. 107 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 2: I love that. 108 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, and then podcasting being like between those two things 109 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:47,239 Speaker 3: where it's like you maybe it's not like it's news 110 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 3: turnarounds per se, where it's like we're still working on 111 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,479 Speaker 3: stories for an extended period of time, but you have 112 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 3: to also maintain those quick publishing deadlines. And then there's me, 113 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 3: the person who's like trying to be very intentional about 114 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 3: the way that I show up in terms of like 115 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 3: how I value and view how productivity can look and 116 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 3: should look for myself, and trying to make sure that 117 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:11,919 Speaker 3: I managed that well. It's like I also feel like 118 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 3: very hard to do. 119 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, I am right there with you on that one. 120 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 7: I think we're filling both of those sentiments like between Katie, 121 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 7: which you're a whole different level. We just finished the 122 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 7: book writing process and we're like, what the hell is 123 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 7: this and being very different from podcasting as well as 124 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 7: trying to be intentional. And I think we forget to 125 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 7: mention that, Evesy, you used to be our executive producer 126 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 7: slash my personal mentor, because you were my beginning really 127 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 7: of trying to figure out the podcasting world. 128 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 6: It's true, like I was thinking about that. 129 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 7: Yeah, because it was Christopher who was there for a minute, 130 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 7: but he was very hands off because he's like, I'm 131 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 7: a white man, I'm not gonna tell you nothing. 132 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 6: Like very smart decision on his part. And then you 133 00:06:57,480 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 6: came in. 134 00:06:57,880 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 7: I was like, all right, I've got ten thousand questions 135 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 7: and you would actually sit with me to have this process. 136 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 7: So I don't think we give you enough credibly, Like, nah, 137 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 7: she was a huge part of Smitha. Yeah, she did 138 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 7: the extra work, but you really helped us put our 139 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 7: show together as to what it is today. So I know, 140 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 7: like you being this pro and you and Katie doing 141 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 7: this new work together. What does it look like going 142 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 7: away from big media to being your own personal this 143 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 7: is what I want and being able to dictate what 144 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 7: a podcast, what your podcast should look like. 145 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 2: That's a good question. 146 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 3: I definitely feel lots of freedom in it, And I 147 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 3: will say that I think it's just like a beautiful 148 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 3: thing that Katie and I do get to work together. 149 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 3: Like I know that we talked about that a little 150 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 3: bit earlier, but I think like our share love for 151 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 3: something and Katie and I being able to talk about 152 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 3: it in an intellectual but also a personally like edifying 153 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 3: way where it's like we're talking to each other, we're 154 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 3: learning things about each other in the way that we 155 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 3: think generally through the conversations that we're having on the podcast, 156 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 3: and it's just per chance that we are privileged enough 157 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 3: to be able to share with people and also be 158 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,239 Speaker 3: paid for it. 159 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 2: Is a thing that's very lovely. 160 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 3: So it's like our yes, it's labor, yes, And like 161 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 3: I get to have like share great moments and create 162 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 3: great memories with Katie in the process of it. So 163 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 3: I think that's really nice and to be able to 164 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 3: do it on our own terms in so many ways 165 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 3: because there's not like there's not like really in reality 166 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 3: like limitations to that as well, but it's still very rewarding. 167 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 3: And we're also talking about things that are just really 168 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 3: fun on the podcast, Like we're talking about haters and 169 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 3: like when do we get to do that in a 170 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 3: way that is. 171 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 2: Like structured and it's written and there's narrative around it, 172 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 2: but like it's about haters. 173 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 3: So yeah, it's been nice moving from that side of 174 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 3: it to like this side of it and doing it 175 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 3: in this specific way. 176 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 5: I'm proud of you. 177 00:08:58,080 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 6: You all are doing such good things. 178 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 4: Thank you well. 179 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: So when we were talking about we were very excited 180 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 1: to have you both on and we were talking about 181 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 1: what this episode could be. The pitch that you sent 182 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: along is these the three reasons we need black stories 183 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 1: and why a show like on Theme is so important? 184 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 1: So can you break that down for us? 185 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,319 Speaker 3: So today we're talking about three reasons why we need 186 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 3: black stories. Obviously that is relevant to our podcast on Theme. 187 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 3: It is all about black storytelling in all its forms. 188 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 3: And there are probably infinite reasons why we need black stories, 189 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 3: and that is very evident in the way that black 190 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 3: stories have persistent over time and how integral they are 191 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 3: in our literal, day to day lives. But we broke 192 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 3: it down to three reasons that are top of mind 193 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 3: for us, and then I think everybody would be able 194 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 3: to relate to. And the first one of those reasons 195 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 3: is about self definition. So Katie and I have talked 196 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 3: about self definition before. I know it's something that's important 197 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 3: to Katie, and we also briefly talked about self definition 198 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 3: in one of our recent episodes of the podcast, A 199 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 3: love Letter to Black Stories. But I know Katie has 200 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 3: some thoughts on self definition. So Katie, if you want 201 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 3: to tell me a little bit about what self definition 202 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 3: means to you and why it's such an important part 203 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 3: of Black storytelling. 204 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 5: Definitely with self definition. I think it's especially important with 205 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 5: black stories because Black people have been the subject of 206 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 5: stories for a very long time. We still are the 207 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 5: subject of stories, but it was at a certain point 208 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,559 Speaker 5: in history and we're seeing that a little bit now where. 209 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:56,079 Speaker 4: It was not allowed for black. 210 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 5: People to tell their own stories, or we had to 211 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 5: tell our own stories secretly, right like they couldn't be 212 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 5: written down. 213 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 4: They can only be passed orally. 214 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 5: And that does something to a people When you're not 215 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 5: allowed to talk about yourself, you're only the subject of 216 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 5: the story written by people who frankly do not like you, 217 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 5: or frankly have like an agenda or want to, you know, 218 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 5: perpetuate a certain message and have this propaganda so that 219 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 5: the rest of the world feels this way about you. 220 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,319 Speaker 5: So with black storytelling and we're focusing on stories are 221 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 5: you know, like written by black people aim towards black people. 222 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 5: It's like we just get to say who we are, 223 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 5: and who we are is you know, different, who we are. 224 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:40,559 Speaker 5: We might not agree with some of the things some 225 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 5: people do, and I think that's really important too, because 226 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,680 Speaker 5: you know, telling telling who you are whether people like 227 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 5: it or not, whether people agree or not, And that 228 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 5: also changes too. I think one of the things that 229 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:57,559 Speaker 5: I found in doing this podcast is who you are 230 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 5: isn't stagnant, and that's okay. And we see that with 231 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 5: a lot of the stories that we are examining, where 232 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 5: people have a long career of telling stories and telling 233 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 5: stories about themselves or telling stories about the black diaspora, 234 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:17,679 Speaker 5: it changes because like our viewpoints change, how we think 235 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 5: about things changed, until that piece of self definition is 236 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 5: like always evolving, which I think is really cool. 237 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that it's just really important to 238 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 3: be able to do that in a way that is 239 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 3: like it's important from a personal standpoint. So it's like 240 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 3: when we write and we share things with others, we're 241 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 3: getting things out on the page that we're able to 242 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 3: express in so many different ways, So it can be 243 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 3: cathartic in so many ways, and there is a lot 244 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 3: of discovery that can happen within that process of writing 245 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 3: itself and creating, but also in the editing process. 246 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 2: So it's like also an exercise. 247 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 3: Of that change over time that Katie was talking about, 248 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 3: because it can happen in those very small moments of writing, 249 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 3: and that can even change when we publish things and 250 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 3: put them out to other people. So yeah, it's very 251 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 3: impactful to be able to use our storytelling in those ways. 252 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 3: And also in Black feminist thought. Patricia Hill Collins in 253 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:23,959 Speaker 3: that book she talks about the power of self definition 254 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:26,559 Speaker 3: and how important it is and how it is such 255 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 3: a pen and the idea of black feminist thought, the 256 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 3: idea of self definition and of finding a voice to 257 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 3: be able to express this collective idea of what self 258 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 3: definition means for Black women. 259 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 5: Speaking of feminism, it reminds me of that Audi Lord quote, 260 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 5: you know, the one talk about it. Oh, Okay, if 261 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 5: I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched 262 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 5: into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive. So 263 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 5: it's like you have to get out in front of 264 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 5: it and like, this is who I am, and whatever 265 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 5: from the out outside that you're projecting onto me, that's 266 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 5: your issue. Like you got to deal with that, because 267 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:07,959 Speaker 5: like I already know who I am, and when you're 268 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 5: able to stand in that, that's power, right, And so 269 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:16,079 Speaker 5: I feel like with storytelling, that's one way that we're 270 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:18,439 Speaker 5: able to stand in who we are by just putting 271 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 5: it out there, telling our own stories and not letting 272 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 5: the stories and fantasies and fictions of other people and 273 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 5: other groups dictate how we are. 274 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. 275 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 3: And the other thing that Patricia Hill Collins talks about 276 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 3: is like the idea of it, literally, survival is at stake. 277 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 3: So like when we're talking about self definition, it is 278 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 3: an exercise of survival as well. And it is that 279 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 3: way and so much in the way that we talk 280 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 3: about black storytelling on our podcast, Katie, like we're talking 281 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 3: about our persistence. We're talking about our existence in general 282 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 3: and how we continue to survive and thrive across generations. 283 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 5: Yeah, not just personal survival, survival of traditions, survival of recipes, 284 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 5: survival of healing techniques. Let's all pass down through stories 285 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 5: and it's the reason why we're still here. 286 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 7: Eves, you said a term collective self discipline, and I 287 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 7: find that just a fascinating trim in itself because it 288 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 7: has that broader picture. But when you say collective self discipline, 289 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 7: how would you define that for me? Like just that 290 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 7: term in its self, So it's such a broad term, 291 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 7: but almost like an opposite. 292 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 3: Okay, So I guess this does kind of lead into 293 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 3: another one of our points. So I think maybe we 294 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 3: can move on to the second point in this one, 295 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 3: because I don't want to step on our own toes, 296 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 3: because I think that question that you have, Samantha is 297 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 3: related to it. 298 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 2: And that's another one of our points. 299 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 3: That our stories are that evidence, are evidence that black 300 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 3: folks are like not a monolis. They are documentation of that, 301 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 3: and so there is self definition. But of course, when 302 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 3: we talk about black storytelling like that means so many 303 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 3: different things, because the idea of blackness is that and 304 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 3: a black diaspora is an idea of a collective in general. 305 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 3: So while we have our own individual selves, in our 306 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 3: own individual perspectives and experiences that we move through this 307 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 3: world within, we are also identifying with our blackness at 308 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 3: the same time, which is in itself a collective. So 309 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 3: those two things are a both and like they both 310 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 3: exist at the same time. But within that realm and 311 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 3: all of the storytelling that we do, we're able to 312 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 3: see so many different all of the different sides of 313 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 3: all of the different things, and all of the stories 314 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 3: that we tell in all of these different ways show 315 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 3: that there is no one specific consciousness that encompasses all 316 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:08,880 Speaker 3: black people. There are different ways that people think we 317 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 3: live in different times. We're colored by the different times 318 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 3: that we live in. We are colored by the way 319 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,200 Speaker 3: that our parents raise us and any other people who 320 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 3: are in our kinship circles have raised us and taught 321 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 3: us things. We're colored by the way that things are 322 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,719 Speaker 3: passed down over generations, through lineages, through our blood. 323 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:32,640 Speaker 2: We're colored by how. 324 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 3: We choose to act in the world, how we're conditioned, 325 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 3: and how we choose to show up in the world 326 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 3: every day. Our religions, our spiritualities, and so all of 327 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 3: that shows up in the work that we are doing 328 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 3: and by their forth like being a black person who 329 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 3: is creating a work and sharing it with the world. 330 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 3: We are within that entire realm, like defining for ourselves 331 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 3: who we are are and how we want to share 332 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 3: that with the world perfectly explained. 333 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 6: Thank you, okay, and thank you for being able to 334 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:08,160 Speaker 6: read my mind. 335 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I understood what you were saying. 336 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 5: I think another thing with black stories, showing that black 337 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:19,160 Speaker 5: people aren't a monolith, goes to our really current times 338 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 5: of like book banning. And I think one of the 339 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 5: things around book banning is like the politics of respectability, like, oh, 340 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:31,120 Speaker 5: you're painting this group in a bad light. Like there's 341 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 5: a lot of bands around queer people. It's like, oh, 342 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 5: you're talking about that gay stuff too much, and oh 343 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 5: you're talking about racism and like all these horrible acts 344 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 5: of violence too much. And that's going to make someone 345 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 5: feel bad. But it is a part of just like 346 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,880 Speaker 5: the collective story. And so instead of saying we need 347 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:56,120 Speaker 5: less of these stories, just we need more of every story. 348 00:18:57,560 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 5: And I think that's what on theme is really getting at, 349 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 5: because you know, we're going to be talking about queer people, 350 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 5: We're going to be talking about acts of violence, We're 351 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 5: going to be talking about haters and obituaries and advice columns. 352 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,959 Speaker 5: Like it's all a story and it has all these 353 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:17,679 Speaker 5: different perspectives and they're going to be all black, but 354 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:21,640 Speaker 5: they're very diverse to in how they're approaching things. And 355 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 5: some people are going to be real liberal, some people 356 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:26,159 Speaker 5: are going to be real conservative, some people gonna be progressive. 357 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 5: I don't know if we're gonna get into the Libertarians 358 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 5: and all that good stuff, but like not exctually from 359 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 5: different different vantage points, and we're going to be looking 360 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 5: at all of that. Eves and I come from different 361 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 5: vantage points on a lot of things, and you know, 362 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 5: we get to have those conversations and at the at 363 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:46,880 Speaker 5: the end of the day, like, you know, we're still black, 364 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 5: we're still telling stories, but you know, we have different opinions, 365 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:52,159 Speaker 5: and that's that's what makes this a good conversation and 366 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 5: a conversation worth having. 367 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that's a good point to lead 368 00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:00,120 Speaker 3: into our next reason why we need a black story 369 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 3: is connecting with people and ideas across time and space. 370 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 3: So in that regard, Katie, thinking about how when we 371 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,639 Speaker 3: interact with all of the media that we're talking about, 372 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 3: it's not always from this current era. It's not always 373 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 3: contemporary work. A lot of the times we're reading things 374 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 3: that are from historical sources, and we will read things 375 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 3: and I think a lot of y'all listeners know if 376 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 3: they listen to the other female first episode, and like 377 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 3: we just talked about if y'all have listened to the 378 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 3: episode about Susie King Taylor. She was involved in the 379 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 3: Civil War, she was a nurse, and she did domestic 380 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 3: work and so many other things. But she had a 381 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,680 Speaker 3: lot of firsts, and she wrote a memoir about her 382 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 3: experiences as an enslaved person and then after emancipation in 383 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 3: the postwar years and going into the early nineteen hundreds, 384 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 3: and how so many of the things that people like 385 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,679 Speaker 3: her and so many other people that we read about 386 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 3: or learn about in other different forms of media say 387 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:07,679 Speaker 3: things and we're like, wait a second, that was that 388 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 3: was the early eighteen hundreds, or that was the early 389 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 3: nineteen hundreds, And I still I understand what you're saying. 390 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 3: I'm coming from the same perspective, And like Susie King Taylor, 391 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 3: calling back to her again, she was like, I see 392 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 3: that there is some progress that has been made since 393 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 3: emancipation happened, and now I'm living in the nineteen hundreds, 394 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 3: but I'm like questioning whether or not all of the 395 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:34,880 Speaker 3: work that I did and contributed to this Civil War 396 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:36,199 Speaker 3: effort was even worth it? 397 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 2: What did it really mean for the Union forces to win? 398 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 3: And what did it really mean that I was involved 399 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:45,159 Speaker 3: in it even though you know, there's still segregation and 400 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 3: racism and lynching is happening. 401 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 2: What do our efforts really mean? 402 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 3: Questioning things like that that you'll go back and sources 403 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 3: and on so many other topics, Like it doesn't even 404 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 3: have to be about racism per se, or the effects 405 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 3: of white supremacy or anything like that. It can be 406 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,439 Speaker 3: things that are about joy, Like, it doesn't have to 407 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 3: be things that are just really devastating. It's like, Oh, 408 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 3: I saw that they experienced black joy in the same 409 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,719 Speaker 3: way that I experience black joy today. And it's really 410 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 3: affirming and also enlightening at the same time to see 411 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 3: that people in these works that we are reading today 412 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 3: experienced things in similar ways to the way we experience 413 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 3: them today. 414 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,119 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's that connection, right, Like you sometimes we can 415 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,359 Speaker 5: feel like very alone. I feel like this a lot, 416 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 5: like during these unprecedented times of like oh no, the world, 417 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:48,400 Speaker 5: why must I have been born in this time? Why 418 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,920 Speaker 5: am I on this timeline? But then you're like, wait, 419 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,640 Speaker 5: everyone Loki feels that way because there's always something. 420 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:55,159 Speaker 4: There's always something. 421 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 5: And I love the James Ballin quote where he's like, 422 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 5: you think your pain and your heartbreak are un presidented 423 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 5: in the history of the world, but then you read 424 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 5: but that goes the same, like you were saying, he's 425 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 5: for joy. I was reading the Autobiography of an Ex 426 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 5: Colored Man last night and he was in Atlanta talking 427 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,639 Speaker 5: about how when you're on the street and black people 428 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 5: just be laughing and loud and running around laughing. I'm like, no, 429 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 5: that's so Atlanta, Like that's so twenty twenty three Atlanta, 430 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 5: you know, and you know that book's written like one 431 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 5: hundred years ago, but like some things are just what 432 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,679 Speaker 5: it is. And I think that's very comforting. And it 433 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 5: also reminds me as someone who is putting out work myself, 434 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 5: that I will not know the impact of it all, 435 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 5: like I'll be gone and my words, whether they're written 436 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 5: or you know, on an audio platform like there, they'll 437 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 5: still be reaching people into the future. And it's really 438 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 5: beautiful to have that conversation across time and across space 439 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 5: that you might not truly be privy, but you're definitely 440 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 5: in that conversation, like I'm in conversation with authors from 441 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 5: the early nineteen hundreds, from the eighteen hundreds. They don't 442 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 5: know me, I don't know them beyond their work, but 443 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 5: it's still influencing me. 444 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,679 Speaker 1: I love that. That's so true. You never know, like 445 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: someday in the future somebody listening to this who really 446 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,919 Speaker 1: needed to hear it. Like that's so powerful and the 447 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: power of storytelling. 448 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 2: I really like that. 449 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,119 Speaker 5: Yeah, it exists far beyond what we're able to know, 450 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,159 Speaker 5: which I think is like the magic in it. 451 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:36,639 Speaker 2: I was just tidy. 452 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,360 Speaker 3: I was just going to use the word magic because 453 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 3: I was like, because that's it is what it is, 454 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 3: because you know you're able to reach across time in 455 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 3: those different ways. You essentially become a time traveler when 456 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 3: you're reading works from the past, but also knowing that 457 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 3: you are a part of what people will be enjoying. 458 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 3: So it's like you're merging different timelines into one. And 459 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 3: it is really cool how that can become like a 460 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 3: source of current inspiration for us, Like it's the thing 461 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 3: that is pushing us forward in this current time to 462 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 3: continue making work. Because I think that's the other thing 463 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 3: about being a storyteller, and like talking about storytelling and 464 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,639 Speaker 3: being able to reach back into other people's stories. Is that, 465 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 3: like I remember why I'm doing what I'm doing, So 466 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,439 Speaker 3: it's becomes a great source of encouragement for me and 467 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 3: also helps me realize that the work I'm doing is 468 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 3: purposeful and it does have a specific place within a 469 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,639 Speaker 3: broader realm of all of the work and all of 470 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 3: the things. 471 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:37,879 Speaker 2: That we do here on earth. 472 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: Absolutely, and it is the power of stories and sharing 473 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 1: those and then like you said to how those like 474 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:50,120 Speaker 1: your own interpretation of that can change over time and 475 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: based on what the person meant when they wrote it. Like, 476 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 1: it's just really fascinating to think about how that evolves 477 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 1: and changes and still causes conversation and we can still 478 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: relate to it even if it's been one hundred years 479 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: or if it will be one hundred years from now. 480 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: That's just how powerful storytelling is. 481 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, and something that I'm really happy we can 482 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 3: offer to people on theme in ways that I hope 483 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 3: that they connect to really well and are able to 484 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,679 Speaker 3: continue that conversation because it is like storytelling is a 485 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 3: collaborative effort. I mean, if we think about all of 486 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 3: the practical ways in which is a collaborative effort and 487 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 3: so much of Black storytelling like call and response, or 488 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,640 Speaker 3: we're talking about oral storytelling and we're thinking about all 489 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,640 Speaker 3: of the ways at family gatherings per se and which 490 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 3: story is morph over time, and we're playing these games 491 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 3: of telephone and things that happened and actually didn't actually 492 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 3: happen in the more casual and conversational storytelling that happens 493 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 3: in black spaces, that it is collaborative. And I hope 494 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 3: that people find this current instance of Black storytelling that 495 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 3: Onzine is to be that kind of collaborative effort in 496 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 3: the same way that so many other Black stories are, 497 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 3: and that they feel empowered and excited to participate and 498 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 3: know that they're part in the storytelling as storytellers themselves, 499 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 3: because they too have their own stories to tell and 500 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 3: own insights to share with people who will continue to 501 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 3: find use in them in this moment and like beyond. 502 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:41,920 Speaker 8: Yes, and I really really love that you're looking at 503 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 8: things that I think maybe a lot of us wouldn't 504 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 8: think of when we first think of stories, like obituaries 505 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:48,359 Speaker 8: or haters. 506 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,159 Speaker 1: Like I like thinking about that too. When you go 507 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: to someone's apartment, you're like, oh, I can tell like 508 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: kind of the story of your life just based on 509 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 1: what you have. Like, there's so many ways to tell stories. 510 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:58,160 Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be it doesn't have to look 511 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 1: one way. So I love that you are exploring all 512 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,120 Speaker 1: of those avenues because I think that's really important. 513 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, stories are everywhere, and we're trying to we're trying 514 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 4: to go everywhere with this show. 515 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 1: Awesome, Well, can you give us a preview, like, what 516 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: are some topics you have out, what are some you're 517 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:18,679 Speaker 1: looking forward to. 518 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 5: Yeah, So we've talked to Donovan x Ramsey about the 519 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 5: Crack era. He has a book out called When Crack 520 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 5: Was King, and so we talk about the storytelling that 521 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 5: was going on during the Crack era and how that 522 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 5: exacerbated it, what happened, how the story telling changed when 523 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 5: the people who were using crack change. So that was 524 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 5: a really fun conversation to have with him so knowledgeable 525 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 5: been writing. 526 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 4: The book for years. 527 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 5: I think it's really nice to talk to authors who've 528 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 5: been writing and like this has been their life and 529 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 5: I just get to like soak up all their knowledge 530 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 5: with like half the work or not even half the work, 531 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 5: like a fraction of the work they've Like, I just 532 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 5: get to read your book that you work so hard 533 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 5: on and now I know what you know. I'm looking 534 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 5: forward to talking about passing racial passing in the black community. 535 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 5: We said Obituaries, Haters, the Advice Column episode. What I'm 536 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 5: really looking forward to with this show is like looking 537 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 5: at stories that we think we kind of know what 538 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 5: was going on and just like turning it a couple 539 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 5: of degrees and looking at it a different way and like, well, 540 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 5: did you think about it like this? So that's what 541 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 5: I have been finding like really fun in the research 542 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 5: I've been doing, is just looking at things just a 543 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 5: slightly different way and getting like a whole new like 544 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 5: vibe on it. 545 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think Katie puts that really well. I'm excited 546 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 3: about all those topics too. Y'all know we're in the 547 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 3: midst of spooky season, and y'all know we've had conversations 548 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 3: before on this show about how much I love all 549 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 3: of the spooky things. So I'm looking forward to some 550 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 3: episodes we're having on on theme about magic and about horror, 551 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 3: which is seasonally relevant and something that I get excited 552 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 3: for every year, So I'm looking forward to that too, 553 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 3: and all of the ones that Katie mentioned, And yeah, 554 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 3: black storytelling is infinite, like it can. We can have 555 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 3: topics until the end of days. And I'm just looking 556 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 3: forward to, like the very small sliver of that deep, 557 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 3: deep well we'll be able to touch in this show. 558 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 6: I'm excited. I'm excited. 559 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 7: I do have one question, though, from what you've researched 560 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 7: so far, what is something one just one thing that 561 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 7: you're like, oh my god, what I didn't know this 562 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 7: or this changed my perspective. 563 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 5: I feel like I have an answer for you, Okay, 564 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 5: the answer for me then. So I think one thing 565 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 5: that EA's perspective changed on was a very popular trope 566 00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 5: in Black Horror, and she was like ten hoes down 567 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 5: on her opinion at the beginning of the episode, and 568 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 5: then by the end of the episode she was like, 569 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:19,239 Speaker 5: actually changed my mind. Oh a little teaser, Oh yeah. 570 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 6: I didn't know. 571 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, I was very hard, like I have a whole 572 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 3: theory about why I don't like this thing, and then 573 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 3: that got turned around by the end of the episode, 574 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 3: and I feel differently about it now, and I'm sure 575 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 3: that I'll keep happening into the future. Like I do 576 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 3: know that Katie and I have a lot of things 577 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 3: that we want to talk about that are kind of 578 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 3: antithetical to what we would typically think and maybe broad 579 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 3: opinions that have been formed about certain topics that we 580 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 3: like to like look into other sides of. 581 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 2: So that's definitely something we want to do with the show. 582 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: That's exciting. That's exciting. Well, thank you both so much 583 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:03,000 Speaker 1: for coming on anytime. You're welcome. Katie, definitely come back 584 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 1: when your book is out and we could talk about it. 585 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,120 Speaker 4: Yes, y'all are first on my stop. 586 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: Well, we don't have to be first, but anytime you 587 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 1: have time. 588 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 7: I've claimed it now, I heard it, I wrote it down. 589 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 6: But you know, I think before. 590 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 7: Also before we move on, because both of you are 591 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 7: avid readers, writers, all the things, way more than I 592 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 7: could ever be. But what is one book that you 593 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 7: would recommend that we all should be reading at this point? 594 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 6: At this point, and then we'll go into what is 595 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 6: one movie? I want to about? 596 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 2: Both of those? 597 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 3: Oh get me stresses me out. Oh no, I thought 598 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 3: this really stresses me out. So I feel like I 599 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 3: want Katie today just answer both of these questions. 600 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 5: Okay, one book that I think everyone should be reading. 601 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 5: I'm very partial to zz packers drinking coffee elsewhere it's 602 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 5: a collection of short stories that I I just. 603 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:01,720 Speaker 4: Find very hilarious. 604 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 5: And when I first encountered it, I was in this 605 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 5: space where I could not read a full length novel 606 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 5: to save my life. It was like everything was going 607 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 5: on in the world and I just like could not focus, 608 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 5: and I was like, what can I do? So it 609 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 5: was like short stories, and I hadn't really been into 610 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 5: short stories before, so I feel like I just lucked 611 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 5: up and reading hers first, because then I was like, Okay, 612 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 5: I really like these short stories. So that's one book 613 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 5: I would recommend, and then one movie. It really has 614 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 5: nothing to do with like the Times Now, but I 615 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,680 Speaker 5: just think it's hilarious. And I would also like to 616 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 5: do an episode. 617 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 2: On this movie. 618 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 3: Okay, I'm ready to hear it too, because I don't 619 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:41,960 Speaker 3: know what it's going to be. 620 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 4: Are you familiar with Poodie Tang? I love that movie. 621 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 4: Have you seen it? 622 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 7: It's been a very long time. I feel like I 623 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 7: watched the edited version as well. You know how it 624 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 7: kind of pops up every now and again. 625 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, like on TV. 626 00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 7: Yeah, I know, I've never forgotten the well understanding. 627 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 5: I first watched this movie when I was a child, 628 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 5: like had no business watching this movie. But like, one 629 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:10,520 Speaker 5: of the big things in the movie is that the 630 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 5: main character, Pooty Tang like never says any actual words. 631 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 5: He says like just like nonsensical phrases like tippy te 632 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,759 Speaker 5: sign no pity on a running kin. So but when 633 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 5: I was a child, like, I understood what he was saying. 634 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 5: So then when I watched it again as an adult, 635 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 5: I was looking at it like, did they change the 636 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,799 Speaker 5: words to this, Like what's going on? Like he used 637 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 5: to I used to know what he was saying and 638 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 5: now I don't. So that was always funny to me. 639 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:37,960 Speaker 5: I was like, not me speaking Pooty Tang back in 640 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:39,800 Speaker 5: the day and not realizing interesting. 641 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 4: But yeah, a very fun movie. 642 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,600 Speaker 5: It's like a movie that it's like supposed to be 643 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:49,400 Speaker 5: like a joke, but it's really deep when you think 644 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 5: about it. 645 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:55,080 Speaker 4: And that's how I'm gonna say, Okay, yes, wait for 646 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 4: this episode. 647 00:34:57,920 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 6: All these teasers happening here. 648 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:06,839 Speaker 1: I know, oh man, Okay, well, Eves, do you want 649 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,719 Speaker 1: to escape the question or have answer? 650 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,600 Speaker 2: I'm escaping the question. I'm gonna let that. I'm gonna 651 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:16,080 Speaker 2: let that resonate that Pooty Tang just I'm gonna let 652 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 2: that that. 653 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 6: Was a high note. 654 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, keep that on. 655 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, that was definitely yeah. All right, cool, Well, thank 656 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 1: you both so much for coming on. Can you tell 657 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,480 Speaker 1: the good listeners where they can find you, where they 658 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,240 Speaker 1: can get your podcast, subscribe all that stuff. 659 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:39,320 Speaker 3: Yep, So you can find me and Katie at One 660 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 3: Theme Show. If you're on Instagram, that's where you can 661 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,720 Speaker 3: follow us and keep up with everything that we're doing 662 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,920 Speaker 3: and know when new episodes are launching. Episodes of On 663 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,839 Speaker 3: Theme come out every single Thursday. You can already listen 664 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:56,439 Speaker 3: to a bunch of them, and I think that's it. 665 00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:00,080 Speaker 3: You can find me personally Eves at Not Apologizing. You 666 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 3: can also go to my website at Eves Jeffcoat dot com. 667 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,839 Speaker 3: That's spelled y v E S j E F F 668 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:08,840 Speaker 3: C O A T dot com. If you want to 669 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 3: keep up with me and Katie. Do you have any 670 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:12,920 Speaker 3: other shout outs you would like to. 671 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:13,720 Speaker 4: Get my books? 672 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,719 Speaker 5: That it is called good Books and it's at good 673 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 5: Books at O on Instagram and good Books at O 674 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 5: dot com. 675 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:22,600 Speaker 7: Yes, when do we need to start looking for your book? 676 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:29,480 Speaker 7: By the way, Katie, okay, okay, so. 677 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 1: The exhaustion in your voice I understand level. 678 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:35,600 Speaker 6: Yeah, real real. 679 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:37,759 Speaker 5: That when y'all writing a podcast, book or what type 680 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:38,880 Speaker 5: of book were y'all writing. 681 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,440 Speaker 1: It was it was part of like a package deal 682 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,799 Speaker 1: for this so it was about this show kind of. 683 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 1: But it was exhausting and stress, that's what else. 684 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 6: And it's just fallen to the wayside. 685 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 1: Well, you can emails It's stuff the mom stuff at 686 00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 1: iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter at 687 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 1: Momstup podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok. Stephfone never told You. 688 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:02,880 Speaker 1: We have a tea public store and we do have 689 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:04,960 Speaker 1: a book. You can get it at steffie should rereadbooks 690 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,279 Speaker 1: dot com or wherever you get your books. Thanks as 691 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,239 Speaker 1: always to our super producer Christina, our executive producer Maya, 692 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,040 Speaker 1: and our contributor Joey. Thank you and thanks to you 693 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 1: for listening. Steffan Never Told You is production iHeartRadio. For 694 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:17,239 Speaker 1: more podcasts on my heart Radio, you can check out 695 00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,279 Speaker 1: the heart Radio app, Apple podcast wherever you listen to 696 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.