WEBVTT - Part Two: Dutch Squatters Accidentally Save The Country From Ruin 0:00:00.560 --> 0:00:03.120 Hello, and welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff, a 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:07.560 podcast about Ian our audio producer. I'm your host, Bargot Hills, right, 0:00:07.640 --> 0:00:09.440 and each week I say the exact same thing by 0:00:09.440 --> 0:00:12.800 way of introduction, based with the Sissifian task of doing 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:17.120 my rather easy job. This week's guest is Alex Fields. Alex, 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:20.560 how are you doing? I'm pretty good. I'm pretty good. 0:00:20.720 --> 0:00:23.880 I've cooled down since last time. Yeah, it's totally a 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:28.560 different day. Oh yes, I've been wearing a wetsuit full 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:33.000 of ice cubes. It's great, excellent. Yeah, I don't know that. 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:36.240 That's a weird Dutch thing, I guess y yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:39.640 Uh that's how you prepare for surfing in the North Sea. 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:43.760 Yeah that's probably true. Okay. Uh, Sophie is here playing 0:00:43.760 --> 0:00:45.599 the part of the Voice of God. Sophie, how are 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:47.720 you am I the voice to God? Or is the 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:51.400 zoom lady that makes the service announcement that we're recording 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:54.320 the Voice of God? Okay, well you're the one who 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:57.600 um makes that happen, so you're sort of more like 0:00:57.680 --> 0:01:02.120 the Pope podcast Pope. I'll take it. Okay, we'll get 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:05.640 you ahead into a gnosticism. Then the zoom Lady would 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:08.720 be Metatron and Sophie is the real deity behind it. 0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:13.199 I think that that is actually what's happening. Um. Also 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:15.280 is the third time that narcissism has come up in 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:18.800 the past like three days for me, so clearly, clearly 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:22.000 something something's happening. Yeah, I never talked about it, so 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:26.960 the fact that I bring it up now is definitely okay. 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:30.119 And Ian as our editor on women, made our theme music, 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:32.120 and you the listener, responsible for the end of all 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:34.680 human society because you didn't recycle. It's too late now 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:37.319 and we are talking about how cool it is to 0:01:37.319 --> 0:01:39.600 break into empty buildings and live in them. In the 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:42.280 first part, we learned about the squatters in the Netherlands, 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:45.080 and in the second part we're gonna keep learning about 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:48.440 the squatters in the Netherlands. What a fun word squatter? 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:52.520 You want to say that, Sophie, squatter? See, isn't it fun? 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:56.960 Or if you're from your squatter now, if I did 0:01:57.000 --> 0:02:00.720 a bad job, I tried, okay, But within Baltimore, b 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:10.919 squitter squitter Yeah, Yeah, there's parts of Maryland like squatter. 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:16.680 That's all. It's squatter. Yeah, I can make fun of 0:02:16.800 --> 0:02:21.760 l A now. That I don't live there, or we 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:26.240 can say Kraken there you go, yes, which is even 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:31.160 spelled like the sea beast, which is extra cool. So 0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:34.639 where we last left our heroes, all of whom are anonymous. 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:36.520 There's very few names in this story, which is kind 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:39.919 of cool. It's all just like groups of people who 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:43.200 wanted houses rather than like movement leaders and ship. I've 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:46.639 actually never studied a movement with fewer like named leaders, 0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:50.880 especially a movement that got so much done. Anyway, they 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:54.320 are organizing demonstrations against the coronation of Beatrix, who does 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:58.600 get a name. Um, she's not anonymous, she's fairly known 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:02.079 to history. The police attacked really hard on Coronation Day 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:07.400 ten Thou police attacked two different demonstrations with water cannons 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:10.519 and horses and and all that ship. Over six d 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:13.280 people were injured. The police were driven back though in 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:16.440 both places, and the riots are possibly the largest in 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:20.760 Dutch history. I that that might that might well be. 0:03:21.080 --> 0:03:24.480 That might well be. So it's it's interesting, like I 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:28.440 haven't really studied this history, but like as uh, someone 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:31.840 active in the Netherlands, you just through osmos as you 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:35.680 get bits and pieces of it. And this hane wowning 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:43.040 think crowning. Ah Uh. These riots, Um, they like you get, 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:45.120 you get these bits and bobs of it, like what 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:48.440 you what you say, like the police being driven back 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:51.800 in two places, like one of them being the amstel 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:57.920 Bruck in front of what is now the new municipal headquarters. Um. 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:02.280 And this whole thing like a like armored vehicles and 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:05.600 the sheer amount of violence and the amount of the 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:10.600 police being there on the day. Yeah. No, I And 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:13.840 it's interesting because there's not that much available in English 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:16.559 about it. Um. Even the like the book I'm reading 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:18.600 on the squatter movement was like and then the like 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:21.080 biggest riots in our history anyway. So then back to 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:24.320 the squatting and I'm like, huh, but I kind of 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:27.040 want to know about this thing that you know. Um. 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:31.640 But yeah, and and once again the squatters and the 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:34.280 in this movie, in this case, these demonstrations were larger 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:36.840 than just the squatter movement. Although they performed, they created 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:38.680 like a lot of the organizational core of it as 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:41.800 far as I understand, UM. And they very consciously we're like, 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:44.320 we're not afraid of violence, but we will stop short 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:46.719 of the molotov and we will stop short of the pistol, 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:51.040 not unless the police and police initiate lethal force first. Um, 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:54.880 they had molotovs and pistols, but they were they were 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:58.080 not on the scene. Um at least again the best 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:01.280 I can tell from what I'm reading. And I have 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:06.000 one story about a named squatter that I like. The 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:08.400 radio equipment in the Great Kaiser where they had the 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:11.120 free you know, free radio Kaiser or whatever, UM was 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:14.919 put to a new use during these riots. Carol Facade. 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:16.920 I don't know how to pronounce his last name. I 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:21.960 should have looked it up. He was yeah, yeah, okay, Carol. 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:24.440 He was a He was a squatter out of necessity. 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:26.680 He had been born into a working class family. He 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:28.599 was living on the streets at eighteen, so he became 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:31.839 a squatter and he cut his his riot radio teeth 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:35.160 listening to police radio during squatter riots. And this is 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:38.120 part of the whole counterinformation stuff that squatters have going 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:41.600 on really well. By the time of the coronation, he 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:44.200 brought a different set of radio equipment into the squad 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:47.120 into the Great Kaiser and into a barricaded room on 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:49.560 the top floor where everyone could escape out of hatch 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:53.000 if they needed to. And the roof as was stocked 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:56.760 with refrigerators and buckets of motor oil in case they 0:05:56.839 --> 0:05:59.640 needed to drop refrigerators and or buckets of motor oil 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:03.839 onto anybody from from their roof. The pantry was stocked 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:07.640 with fireworks. And these four radio operators who are on 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:10.320 the top floor, they have two groups. And I'm going 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:14.400 to quote Caddle directly. You could interfere by putting a 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:17.120 carrier wave on the police signal and transmitting at the 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:19.920 same moment the police did. We made sure that the 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:23.000 police speakers would make a screeching sound or a low hum. 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:26.520 All those noises really grated on the police officers nerves. 0:06:26.839 --> 0:06:30.120 We could hear commanders swear and get frustrated. This created 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:36.120 even more chaos on the streets. Wow, they were just 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:39.880 like effectively like blocking and frustrating the police their own 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:43.040 communications at this moment. Yeah, just just jamming it, just 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:45.400 flooding it with more ship And so two of them 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:47.120 were doing that, and two of them were monitoring what 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:51.640 police communications they could and basically coordinating together. And then 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:53.839 at the end of the day they unloaded all the equipment, 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:57.400 packed it into their cars and drove away. And you know, 0:06:57.480 --> 0:06:59.160 I guess it had been long enough ago that this 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:02.680 guy was willing to give an interview about this, like 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:05.920 forty years later or whatever. That's that's fascinating. So I 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:09.040 never never knew this, Like maybe people were like deeper 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:13.120 into like squatting itself. Um, I might might know more 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:14.480 of this, But I thought you were going to say, 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:20.440 like the radio equipment was for the coordination among squatters 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:24.960 an activists that day, but that's completely separate. Still, yeah, yeah, 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:26.960 I don't know whether you know. I kind of presume 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:29.280 since these people are all really good at radio and 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:32.600 had all this equipment, they probably were doing communication, you know, 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:36.400 coordinating or whatever, especially since they drove back like ten 0:07:36.480 --> 0:07:41.960 thousand cops, um, which coordination is a useful component of helps. 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:46.200 But and then also during the coordination or maybe during 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:48.160 the month leading up to it fifty but I think 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:50.880 possibly on the day of fifty two, luxury apartments were 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:55.760 squatted h and people moved into very nice apartments. Unfortunately, 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:57.600 one person who moved into a various apartment was the 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:02.720 queen who got the queen and the coronation worked and um, 0:08:03.040 --> 0:08:06.000 but some people got to watch police retreat and other 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:08.480 people got houses for a while so sometimes that's the 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:11.040 best you can kind of hope for, you know, compared 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:15.400 to a lot of demonstrations, it's a lot, you know, yeah, totally. 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:19.040 And so squats at this point are popping off everywhere 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:22.000 around the country, big and small. One in the city 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:25.240 of the Hague with squad in nineteen eighty It has 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:27.840 two people. It held a cinema and a venue and 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:30.800 a restaurant and a pirate radio station and published a 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:33.200 magazine in the whole Squad last for twenty three years 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:36.360 and likes. Something that I think is like kind of 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:39.760 almost hard to wrap our heads around, um, is the 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:44.280 scale of squatting. You know. Um, I I was not 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:47.800 able to find a solid number of squads that existed 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:51.400 in the early eighties. I saw it estimated and then 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:54.680 like low tens of thousands, but I'm not I'm not sure. 0:08:55.559 --> 0:08:58.800 But that's huge. Yeah, And you know, it's everything from 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:01.160 like here's an a meant that a couple of people 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:05.600 live in to these giant complexes that have movie theaters 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:10.000 and ship you know, um, and it just it, I 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:13.680 don't know, it's really impressive. You know, it's it's impressive 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:15.640 because if you if you don't know, then you don't, 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:17.559 you don't necessarily expect it, and you say, like, god, 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:21.520 they're they're squatting, they're taking this unoccupied area. Maybe they 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:24.000 have a nice shed somewhere or something. But no. Yeah, 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:28.439 like even now with like much of the squatting movement, uh, 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:32.760 you know, really really much smaller than before. Um, in Amsterdam, 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:36.559 there is there is like, ah, a movie theater that 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:40.000 you that is from the squatting movement that is like 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:42.920 really close to the movement still, and there are like 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:47.679 legalized squatted house groups that have like multiple front doors 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:50.440 that in in the back kind of connect even if 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:53.640 they necessarily didn't before, and like tens of people still 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:57.880 live there. Yeah, And it also disseminated more into like 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:01.360 small smaller towns and stuff. So if people are like 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:04.920 in their thirties or forties, usually like often they they'll 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:07.439 be able to name like a squat in a in 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:10.120 like a nearby town or city, like not just like 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:15.360 Amsterdam or like the like connected big cities like, but 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:18.360 also like smaller places like Drowning In which was like 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:21.880 a provincial provincial city and name they had like big 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:25.360 squatting movements and cloning. It was supposedly very heavy and 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:30.880 at some point name had like an anarchist based UH 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:36.839 school area that was like a school based on their 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:40.480 principles that lasted like for a while, based from like 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:45.680 the squatting movement, they were building up a lot of stuff. Yeah, okay, 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:47.920 and so so one of those squads that I was 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:49.760 able to find more information about one of these earlier 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:52.360 squads that a lot of action happened around here. Actually, well, 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:54.079 just some neat stories. I mean. One of the things 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:55.719 that's so interesting about this is just like tons and 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:58.360 tons of like neat stories from all of this time. 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:00.319 Like I remember at one point being on top of 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:04.720 a a squatted apartment complex that had like a courtyard 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:06.959 in the middle, and you know, I think dozens of 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:09.559 apartments and and the top is built in a way 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:11.559 that to me reads like a castle because you have 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:12.920 a roof and then you have a wall, and then 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:15.080 you have the street on the other side. And people 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:17.560 are like, oh yeah. In the early eighties, when cops 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:19.920 would come down the street, we would use a catapult 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:23.160 and thro paint bombs that are the size of paint 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:25.959 cans at the cop cars, and then the cop cars 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:30.360 would crash. I'm like, this is this has not mapped 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:36.199 my experience of the world. Um. And so there's a 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:39.840 squat in on harng rocked in and those two attached 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:45.840 buildings and with fifty squatters broken another group of uh okay. 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:48.400 So the book that I'm mostly reading from in this case, 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:50.200 a lot of this is from a book called Cracking 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:53.240 the Movement, which is not incredibly well translated and as 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:57.079 full of firsthand accounts. And it says, quote, some musicians 0:11:57.160 --> 0:11:59.640 happened to be walking down the street in riot police 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:02.679 unit forms and they came to play as music. So 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:06.520 the squatters are just dressed up like riot coups at 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:10.439 the opening of the squad um with instruments and just 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:13.319 came and played. And maybe it was to cover the 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:15.640 sound of like the alarms or I don't I have 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:17.920 no fucking clue. I wish I knew why did they 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:21.280 do this? I don't know? Um the same. So there's 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:23.360 there's a lot of stuff like that that that's like 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:25.920 why why did they do this? How did they get 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:28.680 away with this? Is this? Is this the Netherlands? Yeah, 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:32.319 like like they were like back in um and that 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:34.960 I can't exactly place this, but they were like really 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:39.040 sympathetic judges in the Netherlands, like where they said like, 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:41.599 well there was there was this confrontation and there was 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:45.800 the police, and now people get get sued for violence 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:51.079 against the police because of bricks were thrown, et cetera allegedly, 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:54.079 and then the and then like there were some some 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:56.199 quit cases where the judge would go, well but I 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:59.120 mean like, uh, they're they're wearing helmets, right, I mean 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:04.400 the police were wearing Hell, that's no problem. Yeah, it's 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:09.960 completely like ha, how how does that happen? Yeah? Yeah, 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:12.880 I remember when I first showed up, I had just 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:16.640 missed the eviction of a squad called UM the punk 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:20.360 rock in Unbroken and and it had been this like 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:24.839 huge elaborate eviction UM and I don't know and like 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:28.680 someone like went to jail for I think what happened 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:30.839 was they got accused of throwing a molotov at a 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:33.000 cop and convicted of it and then like sentenced to 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:37.240 like nine months in jail versus what at the time, 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:40.120 there was a us UM, a U S anarchist who 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:41.880 was in jail for seven years were throwing a rocket 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:45.880 a cop and like so it the scale of everything, 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:48.600 it's I don't know, whatever I'm not trying to make 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:50.880 too big of a difference of the cultural differences, because 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:53.559 I do think still like the core idea of the 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:57.040 way that the Dutch squad movement like built agency and 0:13:57.440 --> 0:14:00.199 took power, I think it's still really beautiful. Okay, so 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:02.000 the same, But also I think like these kinds of things, 0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:06.480 they stretch what is possible. Also okay, so this isn't 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:11.959 the normal, well so especially not now, but like, um, like, 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:13.920 I don't know the exact history of it, but I 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:16.559 think the case can be made that actions like this 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:21.520 um set they also set a precedent where in under 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:26.080 certain circumstances, becomes possible to do more militant stuff because 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:27.960 there's more of a history and more of a practice 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:30.440 of it. Yeah. No, that's that's a really good point. 0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:34.040 And some of the stuff that we'll talk about about. Yeah, okay, 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:36.160 So the same squad and herong rocked. There was a 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:39.640 phone in the elevator and the cops call it after 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:42.280 a few days, and the squatter's answer and the cops 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:44.680 are like, okay, we have established at the place was vacant, 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:47.240 so you aren't facing immediate eviction. The cops like called 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:49.640 to tell them that and the squatters are like, oh, 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:53.080 that's amazing. Um. Also, what's the phone number here? Because 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:57.160 they want to use the phone, and the cops are like, 0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:58.840 we're not telling any of the fucking phone number, and 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:00.920 they like hang up and then the phone is disconnected 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:06.800 a couple of days later. But even though ostensibly the 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:10.320 squatters are allowed to remain until their court cases are resolved, 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:13.440 the owners found a loophole in that law. And that 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:16.200 loophole is the same loophole that cuts through most politics. 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:20.680 Violence correct, violence that is completely extra legal. It's not 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:22.640 actually a loophole in the law. It's just that owners 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:23.920 figured out you could just beat the ship out of 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:26.800 people and get what you need. Yeah, yeah, Um. Since 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:29.680 cops wouldn't always evicted squads, owners would just hire construction 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:32.920 workers and shipped to break in and beat up squatters. Um. 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:38.120 And the Dutch word for construction workers like oh you 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:41.560 should say instead of me um is this Oh yeah, 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:43.880 I see, I see where you're going for because there's 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:48.920 a joke you can make. Yeah, it sounds like ball 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:52.840 fucker to me. Okay, yeah, yeah, I got the funk 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:56.440 out the fucker one. Yeah. These are completely different words, 0:15:56.480 --> 0:16:00.600 of course, but yeah, no absolute language. This is why 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:02.440 actually no one was friends with me in the Netherlands, 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:06.280 as I kept thinking Dutch words were funny. Um, but yeah, 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:10.120 like and so so construction workers or just like thugs 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:13.000 basically basically like owners hire people and are like, hey, 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:16.600 go beat up these like, you know, scrawny squatter punks 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:20.080 or whatever. And I don't know, and so it's just 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:22.040 like sometimes like while I was there, even you know, 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:24.480 he goes, everyone has to go sleep at the squad 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:27.360 for a night or two in case the ball bockers 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:31.280 show up to fight. And I'm glad I never had 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:34.880 to fight them personally. But squatters would fight them off, 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:36.680 and they would fight them off by standing on the 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:39.840 roof and throwing bricks, adam and ship and as owners 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:41.960 would hire people to beat up the squatters, the squatters 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:45.200 retaliated and they would go directly to the owner's homes 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:47.880 because the squatters are very good at finding information about 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:50.400 who owns what buildings and things, and they would like 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:53.040 break out windows and throw smoke bombs into owners houses 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:56.560 and and retaliate to them being you know, thrown out 0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:59.360 onto the street or illegally evicted and all this ship 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:03.160 and so rooftops ended up getting barricaded with like barbed 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:05.520 wire and searchlights in case gangs try and break in 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:10.040 over the rooftops, and and everyone went so hard, right, 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:12.159 but for a couple of different reasons. First, being a 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:16.879 squatter beats being homeless. And second I would say the 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:19.280 Dutch squad scene is where I learned what solidarity looks 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:22.680 like um and what collective responsibility really can look like. 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:25.280 If you make it really hard for people to funk 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:28.159 with you, you make people a lot less likely to 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:31.280 funk with the next person, and you know, so that 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:34.719 they became this attitude of like we always fight evictions 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:38.320 because that is how we keep this whole thing going. 0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:41.480 And this is hard to set up, Like I've heard 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:44.840 people speaking like frustrations, like how do you mean, how 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:47.200 do you maintain this this mode? Or how do you 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:51.000 keep getting the people to to show up? And it's 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:53.640 like with certain houses, if you if you squat there 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:56.840 with certain groups, and especially the more politicized ones, like 0:17:57.000 --> 0:17:58.520 I've heard people say like we had the rule like 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:00.399 if you live in this house, you go to the 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:04.000 squatting action and if you weren't there, you need a 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:07.119 good excuse. But although because otherwise we will talk to 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:10.880 you because you're supposed to be in solidarity with the rest. Yeah, 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:14.400 and it it's interesting how it cuts across like who 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:17.280 you like, you know, like people show up with squad 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:20.560 actions or people that they can't stand UM at least 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:23.800 some of the stuff that I saw or heard about, 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:26.879 you know, And yeah, this this expectation. If you are 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:29.280 a squatter, you go to squad actions whether you want 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:32.720 to or not. UM, which is interesting, right because you're 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:36.119 creating this social pressure. But it is like, well, I 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:38.879 don't know, it's that's the movement that is providing your 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:42.800 housing for free. It makes sense to keep some skin 0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:44.800 in the game. And with like there would be exceptions, 0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:47.560 right like if someone was undocumented and you know, or 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:50.760 had overstayed their visa or whatever, like you know, if 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:54.800 people like couldn't risk arrest. I think that people weren't 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:57.000 asking them to come. But as you as you said, 0:18:57.080 --> 0:18:59.040 like you know, you need to need an excuse or 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:02.840 otherwise you're you're going. Yeah. But also it's not also 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:07.240 not like UM like standards. So there's this The solarity 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:09.639 is really really good and really strong, and they were 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:12.640 able to maintain it with a lot of the people participating, 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:16.200 but also there were like situations where like people were 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:19.399 helped to a squatted building and then like organized crime 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:22.800 showed up, and then people came to defend the squad 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:24.520 while like some of the people living in or like 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:27.639 a lot of them in some cases inside were like 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:30.679 almost like oblivious to what was happening. There's just an 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:34.240 easy place to just move in and they and maybe 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:38.639 they weren't like ah, that connected yet, or they didn't 0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:42.119 know or they were new. But but you have this 0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:44.959 situation like sometimes this is sort of like frustrating, kind 0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:47.600 of disconnecting. Like the people you're like, this is an 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:49.880 important thing, this is a political action, and also we're 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:52.840 fighting to maintain this while like people inside are like 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:55.600 I don't even know, Yeah, like I just wanted a 0:19:55.640 --> 0:20:01.080 free place to sleep. Um, speaking of organized I'm we 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:05.200 live under a system by which people force us to 0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:11.080 participate in capitalism, which feels like organized crime. And we 0:20:11.560 --> 0:20:15.520 also are sponsored by capitalism. No, we're supposed to only 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:19.480 be sponsored by good things. Um, it's almost like there's 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:26.199 a contradiction that I face by by trying to do this. Sophie, 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:29.760 you seem like the things that are legal are the worst, right, Yeah, 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:35.440 that's true, organized legal crime the okay whatever, here's some 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:44.640 advertisers and we are back and we are talking about Yeah, 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:47.040 like that's actually one of the things that I wanted 0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:49.280 to know more about, because you know, I keep reading 0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:52.159 about like thugs showing up or construction workers showing up, 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:55.879 but I'm also aware of organized crime as being participated 0:20:55.920 --> 0:20:58.680 in this. The squad I lived the longest in in 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:02.639 the Netherlands. Um was mafia leader, had gone to prison 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:06.200 for being a mafia leader. So people moved into his 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:09.080 mansion and that's where I lived. I think I know 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:13.159 where this is going. And it ruled h and you know, 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:16.040 and that every now and then, like mafia guys would 0:21:16.040 --> 0:21:18.400 show up at the front door being like we think 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:22.800 you should leave, and like people were like, no, we 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:26.800 have very good barricades and we're good, and then they 0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:33.680 would leave. Um. I don't know, I like, like I said, 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:37.119 I don't really have like a structured knowledge knowledge of it. 0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:39.280 But you hear like a lot of weird stories come 0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:41.560 by like this kind of steam like oh, it's our 0:21:41.680 --> 0:21:44.520 building and we want it. Um, and then there's just 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:49.280 like often organized crime is quite conservative and uh so there. 0:21:49.359 --> 0:21:52.000 I've heard stories and not trust who they are of 0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:57.080 like Hell's Angels, gangs joining the police to fight squatters 0:21:57.119 --> 0:22:01.400 for instance. Yeah, but I've also stories of like, um, 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:06.760 places being squatted where the owner has a problem with 0:22:06.920 --> 0:22:10.960 organized crime and then some very friendly thugs keep coming back. Hey, hello, 0:22:13.680 --> 0:22:16.080 Well I love what you've done with the place. Love 0:22:16.200 --> 0:22:20.440 it nice. So here's my phone number. Hey, if this 0:22:20.560 --> 0:22:24.040 guy who owns this place comes by, would you be 0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:27.919 a dog give us a ring? And that's I mean, 0:22:28.480 --> 0:22:30.560 that's the three way fight thing, right, that is the 0:22:30.720 --> 0:22:34.480