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Speaker 1: It's a radical act of citizen ing to change our story,

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Speaker 1: to change the narrative that we're living within and our

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Speaker 1: relationship to ourselves and others in the world of like.

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Speaker 1: I won't participate in the authorizing, the dehumanizing, the fighting,

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Speaker 1: the oppression.

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Speaker 2: I won't.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to do that to me. I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to do that to you. I am going to

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Speaker 1: stand for love. I will stand for love, and in

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Speaker 1: that being, this change my world.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to How to Citizen with Baratunde, a podcast that

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Speaker 2: reimagined citizen as a verb, not a legal status. This

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Speaker 2: season is all about how we practice democracy, what can

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Speaker 2: we get rid of, what can we invent, and how

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Speaker 2: do we change the culture of democracy itself. We're leaving

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Speaker 2: the theoretical clouds and hitting the ground with inspiring examples

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Speaker 2: of people and institutions that are showing us new ways

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Speaker 2: to govern ourselves. I can't believe this is the final

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Speaker 2: episode of our fourth season of How to Citizen. I'm

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Speaker 2: so glad you're here now. If you've been with us

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Speaker 2: from the start, thank you, and I hope we've given

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Speaker 2: you new perspectives, solutions and practices to get inspired by

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Speaker 2: and to try. If you're new to the show, thank

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Speaker 2: you as well. It is never too late to start citizen.

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Speaker 2: We kicked off this season with Adrian Marie Brown. It

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Speaker 2: was a beautiful, expansive conversation about the importance of getting

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Speaker 2: into right relationship with each other and seeing democracy is

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Speaker 2: something we create at the micro level at home and

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Speaker 2: in our communities, not just at the macro level via

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Speaker 2: the ballot box. Adrian shared this idea that I'm still

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Speaker 2: playing with in my mind. The idea that the external

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Speaker 2: systems were fighting so hard against also exists inside of us.

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Speaker 2: The inequality, racism, extreme capitalism, all the isms don't just

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Speaker 2: exist out there, they take root in here. So as

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Speaker 2: much as we need to citizen externally to make our

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Speaker 2: communities and our country better by participating, investing in relationships,

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Speaker 2: understanding power, and valuing the collective, we also need to

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Speaker 2: citizen internally. And that brings me to our second pillar,

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Speaker 2: invest in relationships. We have mostly focused on using that

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Speaker 2: as a way to connect to the people around us

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Speaker 2: and to the planet, but the full line is invest

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Speaker 2: in relationships with yourself, with others, and with the planet.

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Speaker 2: And it's so important that we take that first piece

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Speaker 2: that relationship with ourselves as equal to the relationship with

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Speaker 2: others in the planet. Today, doctor Sam Raider is helping

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Speaker 2: us go deeper so that we can understand what it

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Speaker 2: takes to create a culture within ourselves that supports creating

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Speaker 2: a culture of democracy for all of us. I was

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Speaker 2: introduced to Sam through my wife Elizabeth, who you should

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Speaker 2: know by now is executive producer of this show. And

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Speaker 2: if I'm being honest, when I first met Sam, I

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Speaker 2: thought she was a bit out there. She was always

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Speaker 2: talking about alternative approaches to healing and what we could

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Speaker 2: learn from quantum physics, and what we could learn from

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Speaker 2: psychedelics and how to undo our internal wirings from childhood

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Speaker 2: and blah blah blah. It was a lot okay, But

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Speaker 2: over time, Sam and the way she sees the world,

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Speaker 2: they started to click for me. In her eighteen years

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Speaker 2: of practicing psychology, Sam couldn't ignore these patterns she saw

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Speaker 2: her clients living through and realized she needed to step

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Speaker 2: outside of that traditional practice and try something new. So

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Speaker 2: she developed an approach called source Code, which she says

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Speaker 2: focuses on the speed theirritual dimension of healing. Sam believes

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Speaker 2: that our early childhood experiences write a code in our

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Speaker 2: unconscious which then determines the way our story unfolds. And

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Speaker 2: she's committed to helping people rewrite their code. And I

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Speaker 2: want to be clear, this isn't talk therapy, and I'm

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Speaker 2: not going to ask you to lay back on your couch,

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Speaker 2: but it is deeply vulnerable. What Sam asks people to

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Speaker 2: do is get honest about the role we cast for

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Speaker 2: ourselves in our lives and the responses we think we're

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Speaker 2: hardwired to have. If you have any exposure to the

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Speaker 2: modern world of wellness or healing or Instagram spirituality, then

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Speaker 2: you know it can feel completely divorced from and even

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Speaker 2: in denial of reality. I have found that Sam has

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Speaker 2: a foot in both worlds, the internal and external. She

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Speaker 2: protests signed petitions, her money where her mouth is. I

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Speaker 2: literally depend on her for my LA voting guide every

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Speaker 2: time we have to vote, which feels like every other month.

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Speaker 2: Sam is so dedicated to this inner work because she

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Speaker 2: believes that our personal healing is what's going to help

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Speaker 2: us create collective healing. After the break, Doctor Sam Raider

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Speaker 2: on the source code running our lives and how turning

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Speaker 2: inward can help us create a culture of democracy that

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Speaker 2: supports a just and loving world. We are so excited

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Speaker 2: to have you here to explore this belief that I've

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Speaker 2: had for a while now, based some on my own experience,

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Speaker 2: based some on your work about the importance of healing

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Speaker 2: ourselves before we can heal the world, and how we

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Speaker 2: can sit as in better. So that's the crux of

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Speaker 2: why you're here, and I want to start with just

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Speaker 2: asking you, how did you come to make this connection

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Speaker 2: that our internal worlds directly link to our experience of

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Speaker 2: the external one. Did it happen in a moment a

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Speaker 2: series of moments with some of your discovery of this link.

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Speaker 1: I was a psychologist for eighteen years in private practice,

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Speaker 1: starting with my practic and going through, you know, having

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Speaker 1: my own business, and I started to see that there

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Speaker 1: were these patterns that people were coming in and saying

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Speaker 1: the same things to me, even across all different walks

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Speaker 1: of life, all different socioeconomic status, race, gender, you know,

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Speaker 1: it didn't really matter. There were these universal patterns. And

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Speaker 1: when I started relating with the patterns instead of the

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Speaker 1: specifics of what the person was bringing in, I noticed

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Speaker 1: that there were these radical shifts not only in how

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Speaker 1: the person showed up in the world, how they felt,

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Speaker 1: how they behaved, but also how the world showed up

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Speaker 1: for them in an almost mystical way. Things change in

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Speaker 1: their external environment to now reflect their new internal environment.

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Speaker 1: And it started happening so many times that I couldn't

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Speaker 1: unsee it. And that's why I guess I walk this

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Speaker 1: divine paradox, like, yes, I create the voter guide every vote.

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Speaker 2: I believe in.

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Speaker 1: Citizen ing deeply, and I believe it's all an illusion,

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Speaker 1: kind of how the Hindus have been saying for thousands

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Speaker 1: of years. It's all you know, everything we're experiencing is

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Speaker 1: a part of ourselves.

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Speaker 2: The idea that everything we're experiencing is a part of

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Speaker 2: ourselves links to some of my in field experience is

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Speaker 2: making America outdoors and the idea that we are a

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Speaker 2: part of nature, not apart from nature, and so we

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Speaker 2: see ourselves in the external in these patterns that you

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Speaker 2: were seeing in your patience, your clients in the psychology

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Speaker 2: realm you described, you know, a shift in them that

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Speaker 2: would then shift some of the world around them. What's

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Speaker 2: an example of what you were noticing and what changed

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Speaker 2: after you called attention to or intervened in some way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I was thinking in preparation for this interview

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Speaker 1: about this client of mine whose political beliefs were those

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Speaker 1: that are sort of associated with oppression. And when we

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Speaker 1: explored his internal landscape and the sort of symbols that

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Speaker 1: run him, we found that he experienced his father as

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Speaker 1: oppressive as a little one, and actually said sometimes when

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Speaker 1: his father would get really angry, it felt like a

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Speaker 1: silver back gorilla. And so we started talking about the

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Speaker 1: silver back gorilla, this part that's so big and so

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Speaker 1: scary and gets to have all the power, and that

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Speaker 1: that part is paired with this other part that feels

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Speaker 1: so powerless. So in his symbolic landscape, there was this

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Speaker 1: big thing and this little thing and they went together

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Speaker 1: in such a scary, disturbing way. And so if you're

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Speaker 1: living in a universe where there's big guys and little

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Speaker 1: guys and the little guys always lose, of course you're

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Speaker 1: going to want to be a big guy.

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Speaker 2: Logical' that's just that.

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Speaker 1: So you know, I never spoke to him about his

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Speaker 1: political beliefs, and all we did was work on the

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Speaker 1: symbols that run him, this awful split in power, these

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Speaker 1: symbols of bigness and smallness, and oppression, and we started

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Speaker 1: to alchemize those symbols and replace them with new symbols

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Speaker 1: of togetherness, connection, empowerment, equality, equity, and we started shifting

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Speaker 1: things down, down, down at that symbolic layer. And then

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Speaker 1: he comes in and says to me, you know, I've

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Speaker 1: been thinking about the way that I vote. I think

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Speaker 1: there's something off here, like I'm realizing it doesn't actually

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Speaker 1: honor the human beings in the world. And then a

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Speaker 1: few weeks later he comes in and says, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: feel right anymore to have a gun yet a gun,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, yeah, well, if we're living in the

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Speaker 1: big guys and little guys paradigm of dominance, it makes

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Speaker 1: a lot of sense to have a gun, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But this is someone who would find himself regularly these

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Speaker 1: pickles in life. You know, people on the road would

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Speaker 1: cut them off and they'd get in these battles or

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Speaker 1: just odd problems would be coming into his life in

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Speaker 1: various social settings where there was a lot of conflict

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Speaker 1: and shows of dominance, and as he shifted his internal landscape,

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Speaker 1: those things just didn't show up in his world anymore.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't being beckoned into that fight because he wasn't

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Speaker 1: organized around fight.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for the silverback gorilla tail. I've been on

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Speaker 2: a tour over the past few years doing a lot

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Speaker 2: of talking and connecting, and one of the stories I've

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Speaker 2: been trying to shift with the audience I connect with

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Speaker 2: is like, I'm not here to take anything from you.

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Speaker 2: You know, there is so many of us wired to

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Speaker 2: believe in what Heather McGee, another previous guest on our show,

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Speaker 2: calls the zero sum game. If you get something, it's

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Speaker 2: got to come at my expense. And it's like, that's

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Speaker 2: a possible interpretation, or we could get more together, which.

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Speaker 1: Is how nature has worked for time immemorial. Everything springs

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Speaker 1: up interdependent with one another.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: It's just this ecosystem of life that supports itself and

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Speaker 1: each other, and everyone wins and everything keeps each other

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Speaker 1: in checks and balances and thriving. Something about the way

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Speaker 1: we've started to organize ourselves in the last couple thousand years.

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Speaker 1: We're getting away from that, but we can also return

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Speaker 1: to that.

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Speaker 2: I keep thinking back to the first conversation this season

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Speaker 2: with Adrian Marie Brown. We spent some time on fractals.

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Speaker 2: We talked about how fractals you represent these patterns that

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Speaker 2: replicate at the small medium at every scale. The implication

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Speaker 2: being if we change something at the small scale, it

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Speaker 2: will replicate, it will ripple to the larger scale. And

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Speaker 2: I know you're a big fan of fractals, and even

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Speaker 2: the story you shared has you know it hints at this.

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Speaker 2: But where do fractals fit into your worldview when you

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Speaker 2: think about the connection between shifting our internal world to

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Speaker 2: shift the external world.

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Speaker 1: So, for those of you who don't know, a fractal

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Speaker 1: is a pattern that keeps repeating at every scale. So

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Speaker 1: if you zoom in, it's the same pattern. Zoom all

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Speaker 1: the way out, same pattern. Turn to the left, same pattern,

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Speaker 1: turn to the right, same pattern. It's infinite. Fractals are

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Speaker 1: everywhere in our universe. The branching in our lungs mirrors

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Speaker 1: the branching in nature in trees and so on and

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Speaker 1: so forth. So there are certain patterns that keep repeating. Now,

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Speaker 1: source code is based on the idea that in our

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Speaker 1: first five years of life, our early experience encodes into

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Speaker 1: us some patterning. What we learn explicitly by what we're

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Speaker 1: taught and also implicitly from how we're treated in our environment,

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Speaker 1: creates this deep patterning inside of us, and that pattern

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Speaker 1: keeps repeating. So for that client, it was that pattern

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Speaker 1: of dominance and oppression, and that pattern keeps repeating like

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Speaker 1: a fractal. There's actually this really beautiful book called You

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Speaker 1: Matter more Than You Think. It's written by Karen O'Brien

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Speaker 1: who's a professor of human geography at OSLO in Norway,

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Speaker 1: and she talks about that this is a fractal universe.

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Speaker 1: You know, quantum physics and mathematics is bringing us closer

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Speaker 1: to this, knowing that we really do live in this

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Speaker 1: place where it's all just patterns that keep repeating. And

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Speaker 1: for us at the societal scale, how we're citizening. It's

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Speaker 1: the idea of paradigms. So the paradigm of dominance has

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Speaker 1: become really big, but it's become really big because as children,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of children who experience that dominance thing

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Speaker 1: in their family system, so then it's encoded into them,

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Speaker 1: then they embody it, and then our collective embodiment creates

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Speaker 1: these larger macrosystems that mirror like a fractal. So the

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Speaker 1: cool part from that book You Matter More Than You Think,

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Speaker 1: is she says, you know, every point is the center

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Speaker 1: point in a fractal universe. So what each of us embody,

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Speaker 1: how we show up up, what we believe, how we

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Speaker 1: citizen is the beginning of a new world. Every moment

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Speaker 1: can bur the new world of how we want to

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Speaker 1: show up.

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Speaker 2: All right? So I literally got like slightly emotional slash

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Speaker 2: chills because I don't think I speak just for myself

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Speaker 2: when I say that the world can feel very frustrating,

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Speaker 2: can feel very overwhelming. In terms of the challenges, I

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Speaker 2: could list off a litany of isms and ologies, yes,

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Speaker 2: which are impeding our growth and our evolution, and patterns

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Speaker 2: and stories and systems that we were born into, sometimes

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Speaker 2: literally in our families, sometimes more metaphorically as a society.

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Speaker 2: And if I want to counter that, right, if I

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Speaker 2: want to change that, I'm like, I got to join

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Speaker 2: the right organization, I got to fund the right politician.

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Speaker 2: Oh everything they said was a lie. And what I'm

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Speaker 2: hearing in this you matter more than you think. And

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Speaker 2: the center is actually everywhere, is that the front line

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Speaker 2: is also in here. And so if I just start

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Speaker 2: right the place, the space matters a little less than

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Speaker 2: just the commencement. And maybe I could start with me

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Speaker 2: and have that be my own front line.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, Oh my god, I feel you know, tiriy I

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Speaker 1: just hearing you talk about it. And in twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 1: when Trump was elected, I wrote this cheeky article entitled

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Speaker 1: why Trump's presidency might promise more hope and change than Obama's.

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Speaker 2: What Okay, hold on, I'm with you, I'm with you,

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Speaker 2: But I mean that's the very clickbaity great clickbaby. My

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Speaker 2: emotions are moving now because nobody speaks against my man,

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Speaker 2: old I loved you. Would you talking about doctor Stale?

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Speaker 1: Well, when we go looking out there and absolutely keep

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Speaker 1: citizen ing, keep contributing, keep funding, keep going, keep protesting,

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Speaker 1: and when we're only looking out there, we forget that

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Speaker 1: power that every point is the center point in the fractal.

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Speaker 1: So the way I see Trump is that he's kind

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Speaker 1: of a caricature of our collective wound in this nation

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Speaker 1: of otherizing. So he does this big thing about let's

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Speaker 1: build a wall, and these people are bad, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm the greatest, and then we liberals say no, you're

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Speaker 1: bad and we're good. It's just a mirror image. It's

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Speaker 1: Malkovich Malkovich. So the dehumanizing that's festering at the core

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Speaker 1: of our nation. He's coming forward as this big embodiment

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Speaker 1: of that going do you see? Do you see who

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Speaker 1: we are? And it's our opportunity and invitation to go

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Speaker 1: inside and go Okay, where am I dehumanizing even them?

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Speaker 1: Because if I had lived the sum total of their

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Speaker 1: life experience, I would also believe and act the way

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Speaker 1: that they are. And so it's like, there are no

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Speaker 1: bad people, only hurt people, hurt people.

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Speaker 2: I've heard that line so many times, and you know,

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Speaker 2: the people who are hurt in turn hurt others. I think,

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Speaker 2: you know, Trump is a tricky caricature as a particular example,

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Speaker 2: where yes, we hold the truth that hurt people hurt people,

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Speaker 2: and we act to counter the harm and the hurt

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Speaker 2: that's being created by this person. It's the both, at

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Speaker 2: least for me, I don't even know if that's a question.

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Speaker 2: It's more of a statement to get your response to, Oh,

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Speaker 2: because I don't want to feel like so just have

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Speaker 2: to vaguely love, you know, hurtful people and the world's

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Speaker 2: going to fix itself.

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Speaker 1: Oh yes, I do think there are some people who,

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Speaker 1: because of their coping styles and wounds, are living in

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Speaker 1: a little bit of denial of reality and doing what

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Speaker 1: I call spiritual bypass where they're like, everyone just needs

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Speaker 1: to raise their level of consciousness. And I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 1: you tell that to a slave in chains in a

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Speaker 1: diamond mind right now, like, oh, just raise your level

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Speaker 1: of consciousness. Like we have to hold both.

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Speaker 2: We have to hold.

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Speaker 1: Both that there are certain sticky spots in this universe

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Speaker 1: where people don't have the flexibility like on Maslow's hierarchy

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Speaker 1: of needs to be thinking about the quantum and my

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Speaker 1: embodiment and what story am I telling? Sometimes things are

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Speaker 1: just really real, and how can we hold both that

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Speaker 1: our relationship to things matters, that are embodiment matters, that

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Speaker 1: are being this matters, and that there are very real

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Speaker 1: things going on in the world that need to be stopped,

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Speaker 1: that need to be talked about, that need to be

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Speaker 1: addressed and not swept under the rug.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and it's improv It all comes back to improv comedy.

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Speaker 2: I want to back up on some terminology. We've got

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Speaker 2: source code, We've got a coding session rather than a

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Speaker 2: therapy session. We've got symbolic versus concrete or circumstances. I

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Speaker 2: think you use that word can you give us a

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Speaker 2: lay of this linguistic land that you're also creating. What

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Speaker 2: is symbolic versus the traditional way we tend to approach

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Speaker 2: kind of articulating our our problems are in our selves.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Sure.

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Speaker 1: So if we think about the client who had the

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Speaker 1: dad that he associated with the silver Back guerrilla, the

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Speaker 1: concrete circumstances in his life that week may have been

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Speaker 1: that some dick cut him off on the road. He

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Speaker 1: comes in and he wants to tell me about this

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Speaker 1: specific situation that's so frustrating and so irritating, and what

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Speaker 1: do I do about these people everywhere that are trying

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Speaker 1: to cut me off?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: And it's this very specific thing. But instead of going

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Speaker 1: with the concrete specifics, we're going to dive deeper beneath

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Speaker 1: to the symbols, the symbolic landscape or symbolic nexus that

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Speaker 1: got encoded into him when he was little, that's running

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Speaker 1: his life now. It's the algorithm of his matrix. It's

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Speaker 1: what he notices, it's what he attracts, it's what he

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Speaker 1: orients around. It's his favorite story to keep telling, no

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Speaker 1: matter how awful and enraging it is. And so we

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Speaker 1: go down, down, down, and we work with the symbols instead.

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Speaker 1: Like we were talking earlier, there's this gorilla in the mouse,

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Speaker 1: the big part in the little part. Those are archetypal symbols.

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Speaker 1: And when we can resolve things down at that symbolic layer,

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Speaker 1: poof his life shifts. He notices different things, he attracts

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Speaker 1: different things, he creates different things, he embodies different things,

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Speaker 1: he believes different things, he relates in a new way.

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Speaker 1: And that's the work that I do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I want to dive deeper into your source

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Speaker 2: code world and your coping styles world. What have you

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Speaker 2: found when you've gone inside? What are the wounds that

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Speaker 2: you've been able to kind of categorize and label and

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Speaker 2: give some structure to to help us make sense of

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Speaker 2: that internal landscape so we could adjust how we show

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Speaker 2: up in the external landscape.

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Speaker 1: So source Code has identified that there's twelve coping styles

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Speaker 1: that we all share, and all of us have several.

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Speaker 1: I had all twelve, which is sort of what allowed

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Speaker 1: me to be the conduit for the work. But those

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Speaker 1: coping styles are the defense mechanisms that we inherit in

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Speaker 1: our early experience when we don't get the precise support

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Speaker 1: need at each developmental stage. So all of us are

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Speaker 1: walking around with these patterns or coping styles, or glitches

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Speaker 1: in our matrix that make things hard, these tough patterns

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Speaker 1: that keep repeating. But what's more interesting to me is

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Speaker 1: that under them, as soon as we dissolve them, which

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Speaker 1: is what source code does, under those defenses, each of

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Speaker 1: us is the most exquisitely beautiful energy, the most loving, relational, curious, playful, magical,

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Speaker 1: gentle spirit waiting dormant inside of each of us to

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Speaker 1: awaken beyond those defenses. That's what I find inside when

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Speaker 1: I assist someone in stepping out of a lifelong nightmare

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Speaker 1: that they've been trapped inside of. You know, when you

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Speaker 1: think about your life, you notice those patterns that keep

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Speaker 1: repeating of like why am I always invisible? Why does

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Speaker 1: no one hear me? You know? And it's like, because

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Speaker 1: that's something that got encoded into you and now you

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Speaker 1: keep reliving it. But it doesn't have to be. So

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Speaker 1: this morning I received a DM from a student who

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Speaker 1: was in a class with me last night, and she said,

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Speaker 1: you know, I was feeling very upset and missed because

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Speaker 1: in the first half of class, every time I wrote

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Speaker 1: something in the chat, you missed it. You skipped over

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Speaker 1: that and read everyone else's and I felt so invisible

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Speaker 1: my whole life. And so during the break, I decided,

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Speaker 1: let me stand taller and speak my truth and speak

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Speaker 1: my needs. She came forward and was like, I won't

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Speaker 1: be invisible, and then she got the love and the

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Speaker 1: support she needed. So she saw that it was a pattern,

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Speaker 1: a pattern from childhood that keeps repeating, and she shifted

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Speaker 1: her energy, she shifted her embodiment, she shifted what she's

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Speaker 1: willing to participate in. I'm not going to keep playing

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Speaker 1: out that old story. And then she got to have

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Speaker 1: a new experience.

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Speaker 2: So what flash into my mind just now was an image.

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Speaker 2: It's a civil rights image from nineteen sixty eight. The

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Speaker 2: Memphis sanitation workers are striking. They're all black. They're holding

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Speaker 2: up signs that simply say I am a man right,

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Speaker 2: just affirming and asserting a different story, a different ownership

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Speaker 2: of self that's been denied, you know, and encoded right

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Speaker 2: into laws and practices and cultures. Also children who created

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Speaker 2: those laws and practices and cultures, and not being seen,

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Speaker 2: not being humanized. But to humanize yourself first and demand

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Speaker 2: you know that others humanize you as well, and so

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Speaker 2: even in that image, for me, there is a bridge

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Speaker 2: from this symbolic work and the things that are going

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Speaker 2: on in any individual person right back to the way

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Speaker 2: you even protest. The way you show up can affirm

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Speaker 2: a truth that you find in your own, you know,

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Speaker 2: kind of internal landscape.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Like it's a radical act of citizen ning to

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Speaker 1: change our story, to change the narrative that we're living

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Speaker 1: within and our relationship to ourselves and others in the world.

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Speaker 1: Of Like, I won't participate in that old way of being,

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Speaker 1: the authorizing me to you, humanizing, the fighting the oppression. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I won't. I'm not going to do that to me.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to do that to you. I am

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Speaker 1: going to stand for love. I will stand for love,

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Speaker 1: and in that being this change my world.

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Speaker 2: So standing for love it literally sounds and feels beautiful.

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Speaker 2: You've mentioned, you know, this term coping styles. Can you

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Speaker 2: describe one or two of them and how they relate

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Speaker 2: to that early childhood development.

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Speaker 1: One of the things we're developing as children in our

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Speaker 1: first five years of life is our sense of will.

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Speaker 1: What do I have control over? What can I impact?

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Speaker 1: What's my scope of influence? And we need to be

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Speaker 1: able to feel that we can control things and not everything.

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Speaker 1: It's got to be that optimal frustration like ooh, I

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Speaker 1: don't get to control absolutely everything, and also the optimal

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Speaker 1: indulgence of but I do get to decide what I

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Speaker 1: wear to school, but not a hero costume, not a

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Speaker 1: superhero costume. But you know, I can wear any of

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Speaker 1: my shorts or any of my tops. Right, So that

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Speaker 1: we need to feel that we have some say, some voice,

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Speaker 1: some choice, some agency, agency power, but not despotic agency,

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Speaker 1: not control over absolutely everything, where our tantrums can control

435
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 1: our entire families. So as we're developing our will, which

436
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: really happens between ten months of age and four years

437
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 1: of age, during that process, things can go wrong in

438
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 1: one of two ways or both ways, which is we

439
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 1: can be over indulged or we can be overly frustrated,

440
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 1: and those create the indulged coping style and the frustrated

441
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 1: coping style, and you can actually have both. But when

442
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 1: we're overly frustrated, it's like everything is in no, we're

443
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 1: constantly blocked and thwarted. Our will doesn't matter, our voice

444
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 1: doesn't matter, our needs don't matter. And so the cool

445
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 1: thing about the human spirit is that it can never

446
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 1: be broken. The will does not disappear, but it goes underground,

447
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 1: and it turns against the self and against the world,

448
00:25:56,119 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 1: and we become self sabotaging, and as frustrated people feeling

449
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 1: bad starts to feel good. Somehow, we couldn't win by winning,

450
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 1: so we learn how to win by losing and making

451
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: everyone else lose. And we feel a lot of stuckness,

452
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 1: a lot of resistance, a lot of warlike energy.

453
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 2: Life is hard.

454
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 1: That's our mantra, and we're literally frustrated. And the antidote

455
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:24,159
Speaker 1: of frustrated is to get in flow, to say no

456
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,440
Speaker 1: to what we don't want directly, instead of kicking under

457
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 1: the table, say yes to what we do want. Want

458
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 1: what we want, get what we want, feel clear, feel direct.

459
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 1: So one of the ways that the frustrated coping style

460
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 1: can play out in terms of citizen ing is if

461
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 1: we feel like there's no way to win and my

462
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 1: will doesn't matter and I won't be heard, why the

463
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,920
Speaker 1: f would we show up to vote? I don't matter,

464
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:52,120
Speaker 1: No one listens to me anyway. You know, f the man,

465
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: and we don't realize we are the man.

466
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:55,360
Speaker 2: I am the man.

467
00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:00,080
Speaker 1: I am one of we the people who get to

468
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,640
Speaker 1: decide what goes on here. But if we didn't feel

469
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,160
Speaker 1: empowered as children to be able to make decisions, then

470
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: as adults we also don't feel we have the power

471
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 1: to make decisions. So the indulged coping style is sort

472
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 1: of equal and opposite. It's when during the time of socialization,

473
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,399
Speaker 1: no one sort of showed us how we impacted others.

474
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 1: So either we were deeply indulged by our parents or

475
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 1: neglected by our parents, and in either of those situations,

476
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 1: our will ruled the roost. Whatever we wanted, we got.

477
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,399
Speaker 2: That's what I'm feeling. I'm feeling like I don't know

478
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 2: who coined it, but you know, to the person born

479
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 2: into the benefits of a system of oppression, other people's

480
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 2: freedom feels like their oppression because waits, you got something

481
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,159
Speaker 2: you wanted, Well, that was mine. I was supposed to

482
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 2: get that, And so like we've indulged at scale. You know,

483
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 2: some groups of people men have been indulged, you know,

484
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 2: relative to women in the world. The backlash to feminism

485
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 2: by people like and Andrew Tate, who's a caricature as well, well,

486
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 2: there's something indulgent about that, right. The lack of patience, perspective,

487
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 2: respect that someone else's will also matters.

488
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 1: Yes, And really the indulged experience is an unawareness that

489
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 1: anyone else is even real or exists or matters. It's

490
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 1: like I want what I want at any cost, and

491
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: I'm going to get it. It's kind of like the

492
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 1: Stanford marshmallow experiment, like I can't even think about later.

493
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 1: I never really fully developed my frontal I.

494
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 2: Think you're talking about an experiment involving torturing children with

495
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:32,160
Speaker 2: access to marshmallows.

496
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 1: It's like, if you don't eat this one now, you

497
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: can have two later, okay, And to it's developing their

498
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: capacity to wait.

499
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 2: That's what a PhD would say. Yeah, from the outside,

500
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 2: I'm just like, give the kid the marshmallow. Come on, man,

501
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 2: Like they're a child. They can't like rationalize this right.

502
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 1: Well, that's you know, that's that critical period in development

503
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 1: when they start to be able to either wait or

504
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 1: not wait. And if we can't wait, we have that

505
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: indulged coping style. So how looks as a citizen is

506
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: why would I vote? It doesn't affect me, doesn't affect me. Yeah, yeah,

507
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 1: it's all me, me, me, me me, It's not anything

508
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 1: against anyone else. It's like, I don't want to mess

509
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 1: with anyone else, but don't tread on me. Don't take

510
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 1: away my freedom. Don't take away right exactly, don't take

511
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 1: away my capacity to always have exactly what I want

512
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: in every moment, because I'm used to that indulgence.

513
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 2: So with these styles you've mentioned, you know the word antidote.

514
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 2: As far as what we do with them, what does

515
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 2: that mean? What are we trying to do with these

516
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 2: styles beyond get over them or process them? Right? What's

517
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 2: the goal?

518
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: I like to say that we go from being possessed

519
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: by them to possessing them. I have this coping style,

520
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 1: but I'm not unconsciously ruled by it. So each of

521
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: the styles has an antidote, which is the healed position.

522
00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 1: So for indulge, the healed position is actually intervening, which

523
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 1: is a term coined by the late Buddhist monk tik

524
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 1: not Han. He coined that term to talk about how

525
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 1: within every single being is every other being. So in

526
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:16,239
Speaker 1: a piece of paper, you've got to know about the

527
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 1: tree that made that paper, and the birds and the

528
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 1: squirrels that lived inside of that tree, and the water

529
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: in the sunshine that nourished the tree, and the logger

530
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: that cut the tree, and the mill worker who made

531
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 1: the paper, and the mothers of the humans who were

532
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: involved with making this book who fed them from the land,

533
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 1: you know, and the big bang that created all of

534
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 1: this divine unfoldment forever ago. So starting to know about

535
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: we're all nodes in a web of being. I'm not

536
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 1: the only node. And really the wound inside of the

537
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 1: indulged wound is that we didn't grow up in a village.

538
00:30:55,680 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: And it's this deep emptiness that causes this consumer and

539
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 1: this need for more and more and me and me,

540
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 1: because we don't have a sense of belonging, and so

541
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 1: we're in this sort of solitary confinement of the myth

542
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 1: of separation that it's me against you and we're competing

543
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: for finite resources dominating a land instead of being of

544
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: the land, of the animals, of one another and belonging.

545
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: If we had that sense of togetherness and rootedness and belonging,

546
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 1: we wouldn't be me. MEI me, gimme, gimme.

547
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 2: You just described something Elizabeth and I talk about a lot,

548
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 2: like why the suburbs is responsible for gentrification in the hood, right,

549
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 2: It's like people who didn't grow up with a village

550
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 2: out there in the Bonies, coming into the city because

551
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 2: it's cool, don't know how to be around other people.

552
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 2: See some black kids on the Stuplan music, don't know

553
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 2: how to inter be so they call the police instead

554
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 2: and say, like, this is disturbing my existence, right, this

555
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 2: noise is foreign to me. Therefore I have to squash

556
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 2: it and mute it and silence it and push it away.

557
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 2: And that's lack of practice at inter being at some

558
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 2: larger but still I think parallel level. That's my translation.

559
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 2: When I'm hearing things that have to do with early

560
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 2: childhood development and what we inherit, I think of generational healing, right,

561
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 2: these inter connections between generations. What does that term mean

562
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 2: to you? And do you see any connection between that

563
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 2: and our ability to create better circumstances to have a

564
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 2: healthier democracy, to create a healthier culture of democracy through

565
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 2: generational healing.

566
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 1: Absolutely, So we're talking about the fractal nature of reality

567
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 1: and how our outsides reflect our insides, and how our

568
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: insides get encoded in our first five years of life.

569
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 1: So we are born into a long lineage of unconscious

570
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: generational pain handed down through the millennia. But for some

571
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 1: incredible reason, we're alive right now at the time where

572
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 1: we actually have the capacity to become aware of the

573
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 1: paradigms and dynamics and patterns and say the buck stops

574
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 1: with me. I won't unconsciously pass this down to my children.

575
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: I'm going to see these things and I'm going to

576
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 1: shift them. When I would do it as a psychologist,

577
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 1: it would take me a long time, and it was

578
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 1: pretty laborious because I was working with the mind, which

579
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 1: can play tricks and go around in circles. But the

580
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 1: thing about energy is it can shift in the now.

581
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 1: I did a coding session on.

582
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 2: That's what we call them coding sessions in source code.

583
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 1: Okay, yes, because we just work with the symbolic code.

584
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 1: We don't work with any of the circumstances going on

585
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: in your life. But I was coding someone who essentially

586
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 1: realized and named I was born into this metal chamber

587
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 1: of fear around me. My father had one kind of fear,

588
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: my mother had another kind of fear, and both made

589
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,959
Speaker 1: me feel so trapped and so scared and like I

590
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 1: can't trust myself. And so we started to know about

591
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 1: that started to know about the metal chamber, started to

592
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 1: feel how impossible it was, how it wasn't, can't, can't,

593
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 1: And we started to dissolve and resolve that so that

594
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 1: he could energetically feel this shift of that outside thing

595
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 1: oppressing him. Ah release, and he was like, I trust myself,

596
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,879
Speaker 1: I trust my instincts, I trust my energy. I've never

597
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,320
Speaker 1: felt like this in my body before. I've never felt

598
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 1: this much good energy circulating in my body. And I said,

599
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 1: you know, there's always some fear when we outgrow our parents' paradigm,

600
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 1: that we're going to have to split off from them,

601
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: or that this means we don't love them. But no,

602
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 1: we invite them in.

603
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:38,360
Speaker 2: We go. Come with us.

604
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 1: There's a new world where we're not ruled by this

605
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 1: metal chamber of fear. Come with me. I love you,

606
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 1: Let me contain you in a new way. Let me

607
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 1: show you. This is evolution. And he felt it. He

608
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,320
Speaker 1: was like, I want to invite them into this new world.

609
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 1: I don't want to keep living as a captive to

610
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 1: my parents' childhood wounding.

611
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 2: It seems like if we break or shift, you know,

612
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 2: our paradigms, if we rewrite some of our code, that

613
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 2: can also shift the relationships around us. If we outgrow

614
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 2: our parents, right, we're also shifting and maybe they're not

615
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 2: ready for that shift. You know, maybe we are losing people.

616
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 2: We are erecting a new boundary and they don't fit

617
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 2: on the new inside of us. Can you speak more

618
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 2: to the consequences, especially relationship wise, of shifting our internal landscape.

619
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

620
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 1: I think that sometimes people have such calcified coping styles,

621
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,759
Speaker 1: and we're so tormented as little ones that they show

622
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 1: up in a way now as adults that really is

623
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: legitimately unsafe. That no matter how relational we try to be,

624
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: no matter how safe we are as we show up,

625
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 1: no matter how much love and understanding and forgiveness, which

626
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:58,319
Speaker 1: is just understanding that we give, they're still abusive and

627
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 1: cruel and frightening and disturbed.

628
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 4: You know.

629
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 1: If that is the case, I do understand erecting that

630
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 1: boundary of you know, until you can be kind, I'm

631
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 1: not available for contact. And you know, another one of

632
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 1: my students a couple of days ago, had an experience

633
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 1: with her father where he has really not shown up

634
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 1: for the family. And my student's sister is quite sick,

635
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 1: and she said, hey, dad, this is what's going on

636
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 1: with my sister's condition right now in the ICU. And

637
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 1: he said, I didn't need to know that. And she

638
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 1: used the technique that I just taught them, which is,

639
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 1: if you want to go deeper, just go slower. And

640
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 1: she said, you didn't need to know that. She just

641
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 1: mirrored that back to him slowly, and he said, it's

642
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 1: hard to hear that, and he started showing up. He

643
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: went to the hospital for the first time when she

644
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: wasn't planning on doing. He reached out to his other children,

645
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 1: which he wasn't planning on doing. So her courage in

646
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 1: that moment to not be victimized to his pattern that

647
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 1: she'd experienced her entire life and instead lovingly reflect it

648
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: back to him patiently, slowly. He shifted because within each

649
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 1: of us is that essence. I was talking about an

650
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:17,439
Speaker 1: innate healing function that wants to express and receive love.

651
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: And she gave him the opportunity to be freed from

652
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 1: that lifelong defense of avoiding.

653
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 2: With a person like the father you shared with us.

654
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 2: I almost want to say being forced, but even that

655
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 2: language doesn't feel adequate. Being given the opportunity to see themselves,

656
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 2: A lot of folks don't get that right. And it

657
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:45,799
Speaker 2: was done slowly, just gently in this particular example. And

658
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 2: there's power in just you know, holding up that mirror

659
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 2: with love but still holding it right. You're not accepting it,

660
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 2: You're just saying like, here you go, you like what

661
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,760
Speaker 2: you see, without saying all those words either yes.

662
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 1: And that is the essence of source code. That's all

663
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 1: we do is we hold him loving mirror up to

664
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 1: the code we've with precise aim and accuracy, reflect the

665
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 1: code back to itself and it starts to shift.

666
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:16,840
Speaker 2: I keep finding these other historic sort of external world

667
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 2: concrete world examples. I'm a huge fan of Frederick Douglas.

668
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 2: I think he was just like Savage with his language,

669
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 2: and this brother held up mirror lovingly to a country

670
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 2: that in so many ways refused to see itself. Honestly,

671
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 2: but he found words, He found language, He found jokes,

672
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:41,320
Speaker 2: you know, he found rhetoric, He found panash and style

673
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 2: to help dress up what was ultimately a mirror. Is

674
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 2: this your fourth of July, America? Is this what you're celebrating?

675
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,799
Speaker 2: In one of his most epic and famous pieces, which

676
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 2: is posed as a question, what to the slave is

677
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,720
Speaker 2: the fourth of July? So the power of the mirror,

678
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 2: fractally with a father figure or with a founding father figure.

679
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 1: Absolutely, because when we mirror something back to itself and

680
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:10,800
Speaker 1: it starts to alchemize and dissolve and shift, that person

681
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 1: is now the center point of a fractal universe, in

682
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 1: a new reality, a reality that can connect instead of disconnect.

683
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 1: And the ripple effect of every minute change is unspeakable.

684
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 1: I literally went to a yoga class a couple of

685
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 1: days ago and it was so good that I was like,

686
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 1: what is going on here? She was having us talk

687
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: to our neighbor, touch our neighbor, look at eye contact.

688
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:37,760
Speaker 1: When we walked out, she sprayed each of our faces

689
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,240
Speaker 1: with rose. Missed all fifty of us from the class,

690
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 1: and I said, Alex, what is happening? And she goes,

691
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 1: I read your chapter and I was like, what she said,

692
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 1: I was inspired by your book and it shifted me.

693
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:57,360
Speaker 1: Now her shift from reading my book shifted that class.

694
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 1: Those fifty people are walking out into the world now

695
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 1: from a place of deeper connection oneness, inter being, love, safety, joy, pleasure,

696
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 1: beauty whoa Every ripple effect is so so strong and

697
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 1: so meaningful.

698
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 2: And what I took is spray myself in the face

699
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 2: with rose water. So see, we all have our stories, right,

700
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:28,240
Speaker 2: that's my coding, that's my After the break, Sam shares

701
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 2: how we can recode ourselves without abandoning our responsibilities to

702
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 2: our communities. How do we stay present to the process

703
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:46,240
Speaker 2: of recoding ourselves while still being present to our responsibilities

704
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 2: to others, to our families, to our communities. Do you

705
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:53,720
Speaker 2: have any advice on how to practice the both here? Yeah?

706
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 2: I mean that.

707
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:56,760
Speaker 1: Actually that question speaks to one of the other coping

708
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 1: styles called the premature style. And I won't go too

709
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 1: deep into it, but it's basically this idea that my

710
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 1: only way to know about love is to give. That

711
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:10,839
Speaker 1: receiving is not okay, So all my energy goes out.

712
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,880
Speaker 1: I give, I do, I volunteer, I caretake. But we

713
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:17,320
Speaker 1: don't know about feeding, receiving, needing. It just feels wrong.

714
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 1: It's a feeding injury from toddlerhood. But when we're premature,

715
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 1: it really feels like a split, like either or, and

716
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 1: you know that split around giving. I can either give

717
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 1: or receive. It's a misunderstanding because if we just give

718
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: and give and give, we're pouring from an empty cup

719
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 1: and eventually we burn out. But when it's that beautiful

720
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:46,760
Speaker 1: loop of nourishment, of taking and tasting the love, receiving, receiving,

721
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 1: receiving support, receiving care, receiving guidance, and feeling so nourished

722
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 1: and so full that it's like my cup runneth over.

723
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 1: Of course, I'm here to share and show up for you.

724
00:41:57,719 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 1: I mean, it's as simple as put your own oxygen

725
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,799
Speaker 1: mask on first. It's a give and take that's much

726
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 1: more sustainable and pleasurable for everyone.

727
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 2: Much of your work centers on this belief that what

728
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 2: we experience in our families, our early childhood, shapes our

729
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 2: lives as adults in major ways. And in talking about

730
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 2: dissolving these childhood wounds, these coping styles, we pick up,

731
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 2: you've also mentioned the importance of growing up. Right when

732
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 2: we do this work, we're growing up from this adolescent

733
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:32,760
Speaker 2: stage and stepping into more fully formed adulthood, becoming elders,

734
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,800
Speaker 2: not necessarily an age, but in kind of self knowledge.

735
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 2: What does that shift look like to you? And can

736
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 2: you give any other examples of how someone can begin

737
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 2: to think about moving past that hurt child into more

738
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 2: full adulthood or elderhood.

739
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 1: So my sense is that we've been living in what

740
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 1: I call the age of the wounded child, where that

741
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 1: generational pain has been passed down through the millennium.

742
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 2: Hello, hello, Elon. Sorry, I just again, Well, that's right.

743
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 1: It's not just us that are wounded children, but it's

744
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 1: also you know, our leaders that are wounded children, and

745
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 1: so our infrastructure and our laws, and you know, the

746
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:15,280
Speaker 1: systems that are holding us are created by wounded children,

747
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,320
Speaker 1: and they perpetuate wounds. And so it is my heart's

748
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:21,800
Speaker 1: greatest wish and my intuitive prediction that we are now

749
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 1: exiting the age of the wounded child, and what that

750
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 1: means to me is becoming true elders. In indigenous communities,

751
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 1: they know about the importance of that right of passage

752
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 1: into elderhood, and adolescents go through vision quests and other

753
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 1: rituals to have an initiation into elderhood. And we don't

754
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 1: have any of that. We're still running around as wounded children,

755
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 1: creating democracy, as wounded, stinking.

756
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:48,359
Speaker 2: Children in our adult bodysuits.

757
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 1: Yes, and I'm always inspired by psychotherapist and soul activist

758
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 1: Francis Weller, and he talks about how moving from adolescence

759
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 1: to elderhood is about going from looking for places of connection,

760
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:08,799
Speaker 1: seeking for places of connection to building them. So I

761
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 1: want to talk about when you talked about Grace Lely

762
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 1: Bogs and Adrian Marie Brown's reference to that in that interview,

763
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 1: the first interview of this season, she was talking about

764
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,319
Speaker 1: Grace Lely Bogs being accused of a politician of being

765
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 1: a naysayer you don't like the way we're running this country,

766
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 1: and she said, yeah, I'm not just a naysayer. I

767
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:31,840
Speaker 1: can create. And she went out and created many places

768
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 1: of belonging and places of social change. So one way

769
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:38,840
Speaker 1: to citizen and to become an elder is to literally

770
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:42,359
Speaker 1: go out and create places of belonging. And also, if

771
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:44,800
Speaker 1: we think about source code and the fractal nature of

772
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 1: the universe and that our inside world creates our outside world,

773
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 1: simply our being this when we stand for love, is

774
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 1: inviting people into the new world. Instead of saying, gosh,

775
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 1: darn it, I'm living in a world that I don't like,

776
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 1: that doesn't resonate, that doesn't feel like a fit, that

777
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:02,719
Speaker 1: doesn't feel safe, that's not organized the way that I

778
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 1: want it, and focusing on what we don't want. Instead

779
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 1: we embody and live into exactly what we do want.

780
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:12,439
Speaker 1: You know, the yoga teacher brought a little more love

781
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 1: to the room and everybody lit up. So when we

782
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 1: bring more love into everything we do, that's how we citizen.

783
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 1: That's true elderhood.

784
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, what does that true elderhood look like for you

785
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:26,720
Speaker 2: in your life?

786
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 5: Oh?

787
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 1: My cry. I was talking to a friend who's known

788
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 1: me since I was fifteen, and she was looking at

789
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 1: the source Code community and she said, my god, Sam,

790
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 1: you created the love you always knew as possible. Like

791
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 1: the way we relate with each other in my dy

792
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 1: networks and our membership and all courses, all the groups

793
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:53,880
Speaker 1: is radical transparency, unconditional love, safety, unconditional welcoming, and the

794
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 1: boundary that you know, cruelty is not okay, Meanness is

795
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 1: not okay, Hiding is not okay, Lying not okay. There

796
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 1: are pillars of boundaries protecting this space. But within that

797
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:09,319
Speaker 1: everything else is just met with love and understanding and

798
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:11,360
Speaker 1: support and care and fun.

799
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:12,720
Speaker 2: It's really fun.

800
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:15,759
Speaker 1: I think fun is a big part of the new world.

801
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:18,280
Speaker 1: I think we've been taking things really seriously.

802
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 2: Yes, you're like a quantum time traveler, and so your

803
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 2: report back from the future world being more fun is

804
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 2: welcome news. Thank you Paul Revere from the symbolic world

805
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:33,920
Speaker 2: to tell us that fun is on the horizon, not

806
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:38,800
Speaker 2: just threat. Well, congratulations on your own transition into elderhood

807
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 2: and breaking that cycle, and thank you for sharing that

808
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 2: with us. I think you know that's also a demonstration,

809
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 2: and I think a lot of us expect stoicness and

810
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 2: stiffness and hardness and coldness and softness is also very powerful.

811
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 2: So yeah, thanks for practicing and not just preaching. There's

812
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 2: a sequencing in terms of I guess it's a statement

813
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 2: I'll make and then see how you respond, Okay, because

814
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:06,959
Speaker 2: I'm putting some of these pieces together that you've shared

815
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:11,799
Speaker 2: already that even if we embrace a fight mentality, we

816
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:14,880
Speaker 2: have a fight lens. We have a fight writer in

817
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 2: our internal writer's room that sees and projects everything into

818
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 2: the world as a fight. So I'm a fire. That's

819
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 2: my identity. I'm just going to do that all day,

820
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 2: every day, real hard, and that's how I'm going to citizen, right,

821
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:28,239
Speaker 2: I'm going to citizen as a fight. We have us them, right,

822
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 2: it's us versus them, and I'm going a citizen in this

823
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 2: binary of you versus me as opposed to you and me,

824
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:39,319
Speaker 2: And so people who've done no internal searching whatsoever are

825
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:43,959
Speaker 2: citizening every day. Right, But it seems like while we're

826
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 2: doing some of that external stuff, if we rewind a

827
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 2: little bit, if we dive inward, citizen inward, then the

828
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:54,800
Speaker 2: effect of what we're doing externally is going to be healthier,

829
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 2: more sustained, last longer. And so is it a prerequid

830
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 2: it is it preferable to try to work on and

831
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 2: heal some of those wounds before we engage fully in

832
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:10,359
Speaker 2: all the dreaming together. Otherwise we might corrupt our own

833
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 2: dreams and envision something that's not as whole or as

834
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 2: healed as we really want the world to be.

835
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's exactly right. And I noticed this

836
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 1: when my students try to, you know, dream about what

837
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 1: they want for their personal lives or the life at large,

838
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:28,279
Speaker 1: and their dreams are tainted by their coping styles. I

839
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 1: don't even realize it. Like I had a student who

840
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 1: just really wanted to win his court cases so that

841
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:36,560
Speaker 1: the judge would believe him, and that was an enactment

842
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:39,279
Speaker 1: of his childhood when he was judged and wouldn't be

843
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 1: believed and it's like, what do you really want beyond

844
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 1: the wounding? So yeah, but I don't think it's that binary.

845
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:46,239
Speaker 1: First you have to do this and then you have

846
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 1: to do this. It's always like a you know, it's

847
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:50,319
Speaker 1: all happening simultaneously.

848
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 2: Because the center point is everywhere. I'm taking up what

849
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:53,879
Speaker 2: you're putting down.

850
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:56,840
Speaker 1: But I feel like I want to share this story

851
00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 1: because this idea of dreaming together can sound a little

852
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 1: woo woo. But there was this troop of wild baboons

853
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 1: in Kenya that was studied by a man named Robert Sopolski,

854
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:10,360
Speaker 1: and he wrote a book called a Primate's Memoir. But

855
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 1: what happened was that this was well, let me back up.

856
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 1: So primates are one of the only animal species with

857
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:19,320
Speaker 1: a lot of learned behavior. Most animals are just guided

858
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 1: by instinct, but we actually teach our young how to

859
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 1: do things like use tools or what the social rules are.

860
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 1: And in this particular troop of baboons, like all baboons,

861
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:33,720
Speaker 1: there were alpha males who were really violent and rowdy,

862
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,360
Speaker 1: and there was a lot of oppression in the group.

863
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 1: So the female baboons were taunted and new males coming

864
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 1: in from other troops which is what the adolescents do.

865
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:46,360
Speaker 1: They have to leave home and find a new troupe

866
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 1: so that there's no inbreeding. They would taunt the new

867
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:53,480
Speaker 1: males and haze them, and they would prevent the females

868
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 1: from grooming them in order to assert their dominance.

869
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 2: Sounds like a college fraternity, Yes, exactly.

870
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:02,840
Speaker 1: So these males we're going and eating food from a

871
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 1: nearby tourist attraction place from the dumpster, but only the

872
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 1: alpha males were allowed to go eat that special food. Well,

873
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 1: they contracted tuberculosis through the food, and they died. All

874
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 1: the alpha males in the troop died. And it was

875
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 1: mostly female baboons and their instinct and their sensibility was

876
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 1: to groom everyone and to touch everyone and to include everyone,

877
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 1: and so new males that would come into the circle

878
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 1: would be immediately met with touch, welcoming connection, and it

879
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 1: became a peaceful maybe the first peaceful troop of baboons.

880
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 1: There was no conflict, there was no fighting, there was

881
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:50,839
Speaker 1: no hierarchy, there was no alpha. It was a new culture. Now,

882
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 1: new baboons are coming in all the time into this

883
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 1: and so he didn't know what would happen. But the

884
00:50:56,640 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 1: researcher seven years later came back and it was still peaceful,

885
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:06,120
Speaker 1: Which is why I say things can shift now. If

886
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 1: every human laid down their arms literally and metaphorically.

887
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 2: That would be that. Are you saying we have to

888
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:14,759
Speaker 2: kill all the alpha males.

889
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:19,359
Speaker 1: Doctor saf No, we have to love them and set

890
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:20,319
Speaker 1: boundaries with them.

891
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:22,840
Speaker 2: There again, that's my inner child.

892
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:27,480
Speaker 1: Yes, so there are ways to be powerful. They just

893
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 1: don't know how else to be powerful. They're scared.

894
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 2: You know, I get it, there are other ways to

895
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:32,799
Speaker 2: be powerful.

896
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:35,839
Speaker 1: I know in the moments when I when I get

897
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 1: intense and dominant, it's because I'm scared. It's because I'm scared.

898
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:42,680
Speaker 1: And when I feel held and supported and safe and

899
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 1: attuned to and believed and I calm down, I stop dominating.

900
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 1: So I'm just like them.

901
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:55,279
Speaker 2: We all are, and and that is that's really powerful.

902
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 2: I'm just like them. Can be very hard to say

903
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 2: about people We judge harshly because we want to believe

904
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:05,279
Speaker 2: that we're nothing like them. My sister Belinda is nine

905
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:10,399
Speaker 2: years older, thirty years wiser. She is a Yogi. She's

906
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:14,400
Speaker 2: a Buddhist. She is a teacher and very spiritual leader

907
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 2: in Lansing, Michigan. That's I don't know if she called

908
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 2: herself a spiritual leader, that's baby bro looking up to assist.

909
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:22,480
Speaker 2: But I remember during some of the deep intensity of

910
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:26,040
Speaker 2: the Trump era in her yoga classes, she was encouraging

911
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 2: people to feel compassion toward Donald Trump, and a lot

912
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:32,400
Speaker 2: of her students were like, that's where Jordan line b.

913
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 2: We're not doing that, Like he's nothing, I am nothing,

914
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:37,799
Speaker 2: like she's like, there is a part of us represented there.

915
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:40,399
Speaker 2: It's not the part we want to amplify. We don't

916
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 2: want to turn it up to eleven the way he's

917
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:46,200
Speaker 2: caricaturistically display but we got to recognize the self and

918
00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 2: the other. Our very first guest, Valerie Corps, shared that

919
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 2: lesson with us. There is no stranger. The stranger is

920
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 2: a part of myself. I do not yet know who

921
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 2: do not yet acknowledge. So thank you for sharing those words.

922
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 2: In that perspective that we are in everything. We are

923
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 2: in everything. We ask all of our guests one final question.

924
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:09,960
Speaker 2: Because we have a definition here of citizen as a verb.

925
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 2: We have some principles associated with that interpretation. But given

926
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:17,680
Speaker 2: your life story, given your work, given your source code

927
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:20,920
Speaker 2: and the coping styles and everything you've been journeying through.

928
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:24,359
Speaker 2: What does it mean to you the word citizen if

929
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:25,479
Speaker 2: we interpret it as a verb.

930
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:30,319
Speaker 1: I suppose it's the functional side of knowing about inter being,

931
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 1: that we're a part of something larger, that each of

932
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:37,920
Speaker 1: us matters, that what we do affects everyone else and

933
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 1: what they do affects us, and that it's worth giving

934
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:44,319
Speaker 1: that some time and attention and care.

935
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 2: We have a transition now to a live audience Q

936
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 2: and a yes. All right, so yes, say your name,

937
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:54,480
Speaker 2: where you're at and your question. Cynthia lloyd Hurst.

938
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:56,439
Speaker 4: I'm in Palm Springs, California.

939
00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:59,680
Speaker 6: Today, we I think a whole hell of a lot

940
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:04,400
Speaker 6: of people we are working to be more self aware

941
00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:06,719
Speaker 6: and I'm loving your way into it.

942
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:11,200
Speaker 4: I think it's fantastic. What I keep noticing time and

943
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:14,000
Speaker 4: time again, and you've mentioned it just a little bit today,

944
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:21,239
Speaker 4: is that sense of I'm growing in my goodness and

945
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:26,520
Speaker 4: awareness and if they would just stop, everything will be okay.

946
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 4: Those jerks need to leave for my world to be wonderful.

947
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 4: And I'm just wondering if there's just one other thought

948
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 4: you might give us around our own work there.

949
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 1: So what I do with source code is I look

950
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 1: for the symbolic realm. So everything we're experiencing is a

951
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 1: reenactment of our early experience in our coding. So if

952
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:55,319
Speaker 1: our sense of self is I feel okay in here,

953
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 1: and if they out there would just stop, everything would

954
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:03,880
Speaker 1: be o okay. That person is telling us about what

955
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:07,080
Speaker 1: it felt like to be a very young child. If

956
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:11,600
Speaker 1: they would just stop, everything could be okay. And that

957
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:14,800
Speaker 1: echo and that haunting of that feeling as a little

958
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 1: one becomes how we see the world and how we

959
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:19,799
Speaker 1: make sense of the world and how we talk about

960
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 1: the world. So if I was doing a coding session

961
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:25,759
Speaker 1: with that person, I would say, we need to know

962
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 1: about this thing outside that's doing something that feels like

963
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:35,360
Speaker 1: it just wishes something could stop this, and inside feels okay,

964
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:39,759
Speaker 1: but outside doesn't feel okay. And we just work that symbolically,

965
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:44,280
Speaker 1: and as we did, something would shift inside, and because

966
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 1: we're fractal, something would shift outside.

967
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 2: How much time we talk in five minutes, five weeks,

968
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:51,960
Speaker 2: five months, Like, what's the lag time? What's the Doppler

969
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:55,160
Speaker 2: effect on the internal shift to the external shift? And

970
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:57,840
Speaker 2: I'm sure there was no formula, but I am curious

971
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:03,400
Speaker 2: about measuring the rip I guess, and when we see

972
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 2: signs that something has actually changed.

973
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:08,280
Speaker 1: I think again, it's the yes, and like it changes

974
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 1: everything right now, and there's also incremental change over time.

975
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:16,839
Speaker 3: Thank you, Aaron Mast from the good old little state

976
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:20,279
Speaker 3: of Delaware, not the city on Ohio. First of all, Sam,

977
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:23,240
Speaker 3: thank you so much for everything it was for your insight.

978
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 3: I am very aware of my short temper and ease

979
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:31,960
Speaker 3: of frustration sometimes with my kids. Been working on it.

980
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:34,360
Speaker 3: I'm much better where I am now than one it

981
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:36,680
Speaker 3: used to be about two years ago, probably so. I

982
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:39,799
Speaker 3: have a son who's turning five. Pretty sure with my

983
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 3: short temper and frustration I've already imprinted on him a

984
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:45,239
Speaker 3: little bit at least. I just want to know do

985
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:46,840
Speaker 3: I need to work on myself. Is it better to

986
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:49,520
Speaker 3: change my code first before I start working with him?

987
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:52,040
Speaker 3: Or can we do this together? Aaron?

988
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:55,560
Speaker 1: I just want to celebrate you coming forward as a

989
00:56:55,600 --> 00:57:00,640
Speaker 1: man and owning your impact on your child and owning

990
00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 1: your coping styles with such grace and dignity. I find

991
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:09,280
Speaker 1: that when we change, our children change without much effort,

992
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:13,359
Speaker 1: sort of instantaneously, especially if they're younger. But I want

993
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:15,760
Speaker 1: to speak to this part of you that I think

994
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:18,760
Speaker 1: is the omnipotent coping style, which is one of my

995
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 1: core wounds, which is how we didn't feel safe as infants.

996
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:26,760
Speaker 1: This is pre six month stuff, and so when everything

997
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:28,760
Speaker 1: is not ordered in the way we think it needs

998
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:32,640
Speaker 1: to be, we feel very threatened and frightened, like life

999
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:36,120
Speaker 1: or death kind of feeling, and we explode. And so

1000
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:40,000
Speaker 1: I would encourage you to be with your five month old,

1001
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:45,080
Speaker 1: six month old little Aaron and hold him and just

1002
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 1: let him know he's safe, because the antidote to omnipotent

1003
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:51,320
Speaker 1: is safe. We didn't feel safe. Things don't feel safe,

1004
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:55,400
Speaker 1: and that haunting comes with us into adulthood. Things have

1005
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:58,920
Speaker 1: to feel very controlled or else they don't feel safe,

1006
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 1: and so we just want to that little baby you

1007
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 1: in so much love that didn't feel safe and that

1008
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 1: wasn't helped through feeling difficult feelings and knowing that it's

1009
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 1: all okay. It's like okay to not feel okay. Sometimes

1010
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:13,760
Speaker 1: we didn't get that support, and so feeling not okay

1011
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:16,440
Speaker 1: feels really not okay, and it becomes a very FASTI

1012
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:20,320
Speaker 1: ear to sixty reaction. So notice what might shift for

1013
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:22,440
Speaker 1: you if you can hold this part of you with

1014
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:25,440
Speaker 1: even more care the way that a very young infant

1015
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:28,200
Speaker 1: needs to be attuned to, instead of judging this self,

1016
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:30,680
Speaker 1: which I didn't really hear you doing. But I just

1017
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:34,800
Speaker 1: want to even encourage more, more love and more understanding

1018
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:38,160
Speaker 1: for this very young part that still doesn't feel safe yet.

1019
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:42,120
Speaker 1: Just help him feel safe, little by little and come

1020
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:43,760
Speaker 1: join us in the source code community.

1021
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:49,280
Speaker 2: We can help. Thank you so much for that question, Aaron.

1022
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 2: I think you've captured and represented many people beyond yourself.

1023
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:54,560
Speaker 2: So you've done You've done a bit of citizen ing

1024
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:58,120
Speaker 2: right there all right. Next in the queue is Mishaq Weber.

1025
00:58:58,320 --> 00:58:59,360
Speaker 2: Go ahead with your question.

1026
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:03,760
Speaker 7: I'm calling from Minneapolis, Minnesota. We Shack Weber. So what

1027
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:06,160
Speaker 7: I find creates a lot of change is kind of

1028
00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:10,160
Speaker 7: simple recipes, And I was just wondering if there's just

1029
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:14,000
Speaker 7: a few, like everyday things that come to mind that

1030
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 7: we can do to help create a stronger sense of

1031
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:21,040
Speaker 7: interveing ourselves or others the belonging that you talked about,

1032
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:24,000
Speaker 7: or any of these other kind of healing methodologies. I

1033
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:26,200
Speaker 7: was just kind of curious if you had kind of

1034
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:28,640
Speaker 7: everyday practices that people might have in mind.

1035
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:32,480
Speaker 1: I think what's beautiful about the process of healing is

1036
00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:35,520
Speaker 1: it's often a lot more gentle and a lot more

1037
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:41,720
Speaker 1: pleasurable than we thought. So one way to activate a

1038
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 1: sense of intervening is to just connect with ourselves first,

1039
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 1: because again, deep in our hearts, deep in our bones,

1040
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:51,120
Speaker 1: deep in our beings, deep in our bodies is all

1041
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:53,880
Speaker 1: the truth we would ever need to know, and this

1042
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:58,240
Speaker 1: deep connection with all things. So simply slowing down, having

1043
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:01,720
Speaker 1: a cozy cup of tea, journaling, getting a massage, which

1044
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 1: Bear Tunda and I are huge proponents of.

1045
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:06,640
Speaker 2: Massages for freedom. That's my new movement.

1046
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 1: You know, baths, snuggles. It's really that simple. It's just softening,

1047
01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:15,760
Speaker 1: becoming more embodied, connected to that deep wisdom that lives

1048
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:17,960
Speaker 1: inside of all of us and our connection with.

1049
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:20,280
Speaker 2: All that is. When you say embodied, Sam, what does

1050
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:22,160
Speaker 2: that mean? I think the way that I.

1051
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:24,000
Speaker 1: Use it just there was different than I sometimes use it.

1052
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:26,880
Speaker 1: But when I just said embodied, I meant living more

1053
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:30,360
Speaker 1: from the energy in our body than the little ticker

1054
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 1: tape in our minds. And also when I talk about

1055
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:37,200
Speaker 1: embodiment in terms of emerging from a coping style and

1056
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:41,080
Speaker 1: entering its antidote, when we are stuck in a coping style,

1057
01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:43,840
Speaker 1: we are stuck in a certain embodiment. It makes us tense,

1058
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:47,520
Speaker 1: it makes us feel a certain way in our tummies,

1059
01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:50,960
Speaker 1: in our viscera, in our emotions, in our energy field.

1060
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:55,480
Speaker 1: And if we shift that embodiment and we start to

1061
01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:58,240
Speaker 1: soften and loosen, That's why I say the shift can

1062
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:01,600
Speaker 1: happen in the now with energy is like, Oh, I'm

1063
01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:05,840
Speaker 1: not close anymore. I'm open. And that shift and embodiment

1064
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:10,160
Speaker 1: to walk through the world open, receptive, warm, heart centered

1065
01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:13,560
Speaker 1: creates those ripple effects. It's not just a concept that

1066
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:16,560
Speaker 1: we think about in the mind. It's an actual embodied

1067
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:17,760
Speaker 1: way of being and living.

1068
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:20,920
Speaker 2: Thank you for that, and thank you miss Shack. We

1069
01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:25,520
Speaker 2: have a question from Elizabeth Gratch that our producer Ali

1070
01:01:26,160 --> 01:01:28,600
Speaker 2: will voice for us, which means you all get to

1071
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:30,960
Speaker 2: meet Ali. Hello.

1072
01:01:31,040 --> 01:01:35,200
Speaker 5: This is Ali coming in from Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and

1073
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:39,040
Speaker 5: I'm voicing Elizabeth Gratch's questions. So this is for veritunde.

1074
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:42,320
Speaker 5: Have you always been able to nurture your confidence and

1075
01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:45,720
Speaker 5: was there someone or someone's in your life who helped

1076
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:50,160
Speaker 5: set that beautiful self possession, focus and drive in motion?

1077
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:56,120
Speaker 2: And how yo not expecting a question from me? Thank you,

1078
01:01:56,240 --> 01:02:05,200
Speaker 2: Ali Slash Elizabeth Ah. I had a complex and diverse

1079
01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:09,080
Speaker 2: array of early coding by my mother and by my hood,

1080
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:11,920
Speaker 2: and it was filled with a lot of love and

1081
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:15,120
Speaker 2: the confidence that you are perceiving. First, thank you for

1082
01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:17,840
Speaker 2: nice words, self possession, focus, drive, and like, I'll put

1083
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:22,840
Speaker 2: this on the LinkedIn. But I remember that my friends

1084
01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:26,800
Speaker 2: often dreamed of being things that their parents wanted them

1085
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:30,200
Speaker 2: to be, and I noticed that because my mom was

1086
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:32,680
Speaker 2: so different. She was just like, you could do this,

1087
01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:35,880
Speaker 2: or you could do that. You could be an actor

1088
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:38,000
Speaker 2: if you want, or you could be like a gardener

1089
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:40,280
Speaker 2: or as you tell me now, a garbage man. I

1090
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:42,000
Speaker 2: really wanted to be a garbage man for a long

1091
01:02:42,040 --> 01:02:44,920
Speaker 2: time because you get to ride on trucks yay, and

1092
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:47,080
Speaker 2: you get free stuff double yay. Like it's a win

1093
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:50,880
Speaker 2: win situation. That built an early habit of me of

1094
01:02:51,240 --> 01:02:55,600
Speaker 2: confident exploration of possibility because there was not so much

1095
01:02:55,640 --> 01:02:59,040
Speaker 2: weight attached to the specific path that I would walk,

1096
01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:02,560
Speaker 2: just encourage to find and walk the path. So I

1097
01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:05,800
Speaker 2: just give like a thousand pounds of credit to my

1098
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:09,960
Speaker 2: mom for encouraging that and embedding that piece in me.

1099
01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:14,360
Speaker 2: She embedded some other stuff too that wasn't always sustainably useful.

1100
01:03:14,720 --> 01:03:18,560
Speaker 2: But in answer to that question, that's Mom's work. So

1101
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:22,000
Speaker 2: thank you. Rest in peace, Anita, Lorraine Thurston, and whatever

1102
01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:24,919
Speaker 2: you're perceiving there, Elizabeth is a piece of her shining through.

1103
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:28,040
Speaker 1: I just want to acknowledge that a lot of what

1104
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:31,480
Speaker 1: we inherited from our parents was really good and beautiful

1105
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 1: and useful. So much of our coding works. It's just

1106
01:03:35,720 --> 01:03:39,480
Speaker 1: these twelve glitchy things that are in our way. But

1107
01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:42,000
Speaker 1: all of us got good stuff too.

1108
01:03:42,520 --> 01:03:43,280
Speaker 2: Thank you for that.

1109
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:43,600
Speaker 5: You know.

1110
01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:48,320
Speaker 2: The way you describe these styles is I think healthily

1111
01:03:49,320 --> 01:03:56,840
Speaker 2: judgment neutral. Right, you talk about finding antidotes, not destroying, erasing, shaming.

1112
01:03:57,080 --> 01:04:00,920
Speaker 2: These are not like diseases to be eradicated. They are

1113
01:04:01,080 --> 01:04:05,400
Speaker 2: pieces to be integrated, not being possessed by, but possessing.

1114
01:04:06,160 --> 01:04:09,400
Speaker 2: And so if we can own those parts, then we

1115
01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:12,200
Speaker 2: can own our full selves. And I always skip to

1116
01:04:12,280 --> 01:04:16,919
Speaker 2: the macro metaphor with a society, a city, a nation,

1117
01:04:17,120 --> 01:04:22,600
Speaker 2: a species, and it's like, let's own the glitches. You know,

1118
01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:24,720
Speaker 2: they are features, not bugs, and they give us an

1119
01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:28,920
Speaker 2: opportunity to walk a different and better path. They give

1120
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:31,400
Speaker 2: us an opportunity to learn, They give us an oh

1121
01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:34,240
Speaker 2: yay me I get a chance to recode myself. I

1122
01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:36,919
Speaker 2: get a chance to refound myself. I get a chance

1123
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:40,880
Speaker 2: to reconstitute you know, myself and a nation at the

1124
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:44,800
Speaker 2: same time. All right, last up, we've got Janine the

1125
01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:47,200
Speaker 2: novig one of our most frequent contributors.

1126
01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:52,600
Speaker 8: Thank you, Philadelphia. Here's my question. It comes from my

1127
01:04:52,840 --> 01:04:56,880
Speaker 8: location as both a parent and a daughter. This has

1128
01:04:56,920 --> 01:04:59,880
Speaker 8: been so resonant for me in this way. I think

1129
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:02,400
Speaker 8: other people too. I'm looking at Aaron and other folks

1130
01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:05,640
Speaker 8: in the chat where we were kind of resonating about

1131
01:05:05,720 --> 01:05:07,600
Speaker 8: how we raise our kids and then how do we

1132
01:05:07,720 --> 01:05:10,560
Speaker 8: raise up the little us that was hurt? So my

1133
01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:15,000
Speaker 8: question is, like in that silver back example, right, we're

1134
01:05:15,080 --> 01:05:18,960
Speaker 8: all very seduced into being the silver back, Like we

1135
01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:22,200
Speaker 8: all have a version of a scenario where being the

1136
01:05:22,280 --> 01:05:27,680
Speaker 8: silver back is adaptive. It's safe, it has worked for

1137
01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:32,040
Speaker 8: in my case, forty some odd years. It satisfies my ego,

1138
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:36,600
Speaker 8: it matches the world around as opposed to being soft.

1139
01:05:36,640 --> 01:05:40,520
Speaker 8: You know. So I'm in this work all the time,

1140
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:45,560
Speaker 8: and I'm wondering if you have daily practices for interrupting

1141
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:49,880
Speaker 8: that seduction to be the silver back of you know,

1142
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:50,720
Speaker 8: your own life.

1143
01:05:51,720 --> 01:05:54,800
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Janine, and that question really helps

1144
01:05:54,840 --> 01:06:00,160
Speaker 1: me clarify that to me, it's not that the alternative

1145
01:06:00,320 --> 01:06:06,480
Speaker 1: our silverback or soft that's still that old paradigm of dominance.

1146
01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:11,800
Speaker 1: But to me, standing for love is very firm, very firm.

1147
01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:16,600
Speaker 1: Do not touch that stove because I love you. I

1148
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:23,120
Speaker 1: love you. It's different. So it's beautiful that you're firm

1149
01:06:23,160 --> 01:06:27,160
Speaker 1: with your children. They need that. Where's it coming from

1150
01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:28,400
Speaker 1: If it's coming from love?

1151
01:06:29,240 --> 01:06:29,439
Speaker 3: Yeay.

1152
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:34,439
Speaker 2: I want to formally thank you again Sam for being

1153
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:37,480
Speaker 2: a part of this with us. Welcome to how to

1154
01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:40,480
Speaker 2: citizen community, and thank you for showing us how to

1155
01:06:40,480 --> 01:06:44,240
Speaker 2: citizen within so that we can citizen better out there.

1156
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:47,000
Speaker 1: Thank you. I have truly loved being here. I've been

1157
01:06:47,040 --> 01:06:50,320
Speaker 1: listening to your podcast from the beginning and it is

1158
01:06:50,360 --> 01:06:52,400
Speaker 1: an honor in my life to be your dear friend

1159
01:06:53,280 --> 01:06:56,640
Speaker 1: and to learn from you. You are quite a force

1160
01:06:56,840 --> 01:06:58,320
Speaker 1: of love and goodness in this world.

1161
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:04,080
Speaker 2: In the face of all this work we've collectively got

1162
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:07,000
Speaker 2: to do, it's easy to feel like the last thing

1163
01:07:07,080 --> 01:07:11,120
Speaker 2: we have time for is ourselves. But I want us

1164
01:07:11,160 --> 01:07:14,560
Speaker 2: to really take in what Sam said. It's a radical

1165
01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:18,880
Speaker 2: act of citizen ing to change our story, to change

1166
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:22,280
Speaker 2: the narrative that we're living within, and our relationship to

1167
01:07:22,320 --> 01:07:26,320
Speaker 2: ourselves and others in the world. She reminds us. She

1168
01:07:26,440 --> 01:07:31,320
Speaker 2: reminds me these issues, especially the current culture, the things

1169
01:07:31,320 --> 01:07:34,080
Speaker 2: that we don't like about the way the world works,

1170
01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:40,640
Speaker 2: they all came from us too. We are at the

1171
01:07:40,800 --> 01:07:43,920
Speaker 2: end of our fourth season and I'm so glad that

1172
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:47,480
Speaker 2: Sam helped us close it out. After this interview, we

1173
01:07:47,640 --> 01:07:50,080
Speaker 2: let Sam drop off the zoom and I stayed on

1174
01:07:50,480 --> 01:07:52,320
Speaker 2: to have a conversation with a few of the live

1175
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:55,880
Speaker 2: audience members, and I got a question that felt heavy.

1176
01:07:56,880 --> 01:08:00,480
Speaker 2: Aaron mass from Delaware asked, what direction do you see

1177
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:03,800
Speaker 2: the country headed in? Do you have hope for our future,

1178
01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:08,240
Speaker 2: for my kid's future. Whoo, Aaron put his kids on me.

1179
01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:10,720
Speaker 2: All that was a lot. That was a lot, And

1180
01:08:10,760 --> 01:08:13,200
Speaker 2: I want to share with you a version of what

1181
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:17,920
Speaker 2: I shared with Arin. I see the United States of

1182
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:22,360
Speaker 2: America getting harder to live in. You can sense it

1183
01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:26,400
Speaker 2: in the weather, and that's not a metaphor literally the weather.

1184
01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:30,080
Speaker 2: You see it on the ground in our behavior. There's

1185
01:08:30,080 --> 01:08:35,520
Speaker 2: something really sad about a nation that requires this many firearms.

1186
01:08:36,520 --> 01:08:39,639
Speaker 2: It's an explicit indicator of the lack of inter being

1187
01:08:40,200 --> 01:08:44,080
Speaker 2: the lack of trust that we're all building walled cities

1188
01:08:44,160 --> 01:08:47,519
Speaker 2: around our two car garages and trying to recreate entire

1189
01:08:47,560 --> 01:08:52,240
Speaker 2: societies within that as opposed to joining and participating in

1190
01:08:52,280 --> 01:08:55,200
Speaker 2: the societies were already a part of. And so what

1191
01:08:55,240 --> 01:08:58,960
Speaker 2: I'm observing is this large slide in that direction, and

1192
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:02,080
Speaker 2: it feels like it's picking up. I don't think the

1193
01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:06,680
Speaker 2: climate migrants knocking on our southern border are inspiring evolved

1194
01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:09,760
Speaker 2: levels of political response from our federal or many of

1195
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:13,040
Speaker 2: our state governments. I don't think that the human beings

1196
01:09:13,080 --> 01:09:17,040
Speaker 2: who are recognizing the inter being within themselves in terms

1197
01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:20,120
Speaker 2: of gender identity and giving a voice and new names

1198
01:09:20,120 --> 01:09:22,840
Speaker 2: to that, I don't think they're being met with the

1199
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:27,960
Speaker 2: most mature, evolved, healed response from the prevailing establishment of

1200
01:09:28,080 --> 01:09:31,200
Speaker 2: rule makers and gatekeepers. And I don't think most of

1201
01:09:31,280 --> 01:09:36,240
Speaker 2: us are afforded enough time, space and security to truly

1202
01:09:36,360 --> 01:09:39,960
Speaker 2: meet this moment we find ourselves in. So yeah, I

1203
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:48,519
Speaker 2: think it's gonna get harder, it's gonna get hurt, and

1204
01:09:49,960 --> 01:09:53,320
Speaker 2: I have great hopes for us and for our children

1205
01:09:54,080 --> 01:10:00,080
Speaker 2: because this culture's unsustainability is so readily obvious to so

1206
01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:03,760
Speaker 2: many of us, Because our ability to indulge in and

1207
01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:07,840
Speaker 2: digest the lie that more and more and more and

1208
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:10,519
Speaker 2: mine and mine and mine will get me everything I

1209
01:10:10,640 --> 01:10:16,519
Speaker 2: need is on full display to be a lie. And

1210
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:19,759
Speaker 2: I think that underneath all that froth and that noise,

1211
01:10:20,680 --> 01:10:25,760
Speaker 2: there's this stillness, there's this deeper truth. There's people like

1212
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:30,080
Speaker 2: Sam and Adrian, Marie Brown and Ruhab Benjamin and John

1213
01:10:30,160 --> 01:10:33,960
Speaker 2: Alexander and Claudia Holitz and Steve Kerr and Priya Park

1214
01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:38,680
Speaker 2: for all our guests, and they're all coming from different experiences,

1215
01:10:38,760 --> 01:10:43,479
Speaker 2: saying essentially the same things, trying to take us to

1216
01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:50,720
Speaker 2: this same place, a place of completeness, of peace, of belonging,

1217
01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:57,800
Speaker 2: of membership, of citizen ing. And I'm willing to keep

1218
01:10:57,880 --> 01:11:00,879
Speaker 2: hoping and fighting for that place for them, that journey

1219
01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:03,960
Speaker 2: to that place, no matter how hard it is to

1220
01:11:04,080 --> 01:11:09,519
Speaker 2: keep envisioning it. What's keeping me citizening is holding both

1221
01:11:09,600 --> 01:11:18,680
Speaker 2: these feelings. I'm exhausted and I'm excited. I'm pessimistic and optimistic.

1222
01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:24,000
Speaker 2: I mourn what we've lost and celebrate what we can

1223
01:11:24,040 --> 01:11:28,280
Speaker 2: still create. And we can still create a lot of

1224
01:11:28,360 --> 01:11:32,439
Speaker 2: good as long as there's enough of us working towards

1225
01:11:32,439 --> 01:11:36,280
Speaker 2: creating a culture based in love. One where we try

1226
01:11:36,360 --> 01:11:50,280
Speaker 2: to live together better. Then I'm in for more ways

1227
01:11:50,280 --> 01:11:52,960
Speaker 2: to connect to doctor Sam's work. Head to her website

1228
01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:56,760
Speaker 2: Doctor Samraider dot com. There you're going to find a

1229
01:11:56,800 --> 01:11:59,599
Speaker 2: free quiz to discover your coping styles, as well as

1230
01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:03,040
Speaker 2: ways to access the forthcoming source codebook through her Return

1231
01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:07,880
Speaker 2: to Love membership program. As always, check the show notes

1232
01:12:07,880 --> 01:12:09,960
Speaker 2: for links to all this as well as the books

1233
01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:14,000
Speaker 2: referenced in this episode. If you take any of these actions,

1234
01:12:14,200 --> 01:12:17,639
Speaker 2: please brag about it online and use the hashtag how

1235
01:12:17,720 --> 01:12:21,519
Speaker 2: to Citizen. Also tag our Instagram how to Citizen. I

1236
01:12:21,560 --> 01:12:24,160
Speaker 2: am always online and I really do see your messages,

1237
01:12:24,280 --> 01:12:27,840
Speaker 2: so send them. You can also visit our website howdocitizen

1238
01:12:27,880 --> 01:12:32,200
Speaker 2: dot com, which has all of our shows, full transcripts, actions,

1239
01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:35,639
Speaker 2: and more. And I want to thank you one last

1240
01:12:35,680 --> 01:12:40,360
Speaker 2: time for joining us this season. Please stay connected. Follow

1241
01:12:40,439 --> 01:12:44,760
Speaker 2: how to Citizen on Instagram, Visit howtocitizen dot com to

1242
01:12:44,880 --> 01:12:48,600
Speaker 2: join our email list, explore all of our episodes, and

1243
01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:51,800
Speaker 2: engage with our massive library of actions that you can

1244
01:12:51,840 --> 01:12:56,280
Speaker 2: take together. Let's keep citizen it. I look forward to

1245
01:12:56,280 --> 01:13:00,840
Speaker 2: seeing you again. How to Citizen with Baritunday is a

1246
01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:05,560
Speaker 2: production of iHeartRadio Podcasts and Row Home Productions. Our executive

1247
01:13:05,560 --> 01:13:10,519
Speaker 2: producers are me Baritunde Thurston and Elizabeth Stewart. Our lead

1248
01:13:10,560 --> 01:13:14,920
Speaker 2: producer is Ali Graham, Our associate producer is Donya abdel Hamid.

1249
01:13:15,360 --> 01:13:18,720
Speaker 2: Alex Lewis is our managing producer, and John Myers is

1250
01:13:18,720 --> 01:13:23,320
Speaker 2: our executive editor. Our mixed engineer is Justin Berger. Original

1251
01:13:23,439 --> 01:13:26,639
Speaker 2: music by Andrew Eapen with additional music by Blue Dot

1252
01:13:26,720 --> 01:13:30,439
Speaker 2: Sessions and our audience Engagement Fellows are Jasmine Lewis and

1253
01:13:30,520 --> 01:13:34,760
Speaker 2: Gabby Rodriguez. Special thanks to Joelle Smith from iHeartRadio and

1254
01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:48,960
Speaker 2: Leila Bina Row Home Productions