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Speaker 1: Hi, everybody, Welcome to the very first episode of I

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Speaker 1: Saw What You Did. My name is Millie to Jericho.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Danielle Henderson. And we're gonna be watching a

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Speaker 2: different double feature every week with a wild theme that

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Speaker 2: we choose.

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Speaker 1: Let's legitimize ourselves.

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Speaker 2: Let's to endear ourselves to you as an audience. Well,

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Speaker 2: I feel like it's important that people know that we're like,

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Speaker 2: we're friends in real life. Nice, we know each other,

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Speaker 2: we love each other. This is not just a business arrangement.

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Speaker 1: But we were not set up on a date from

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Speaker 1: the podcast Bachelor or whatever.

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Speaker 2: Like, we're real friends. Like we're like met on live

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Speaker 2: journal friends, Like we've known each other for way back,

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Speaker 2: met in real life, and now we both live in

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Speaker 2: Los Angeles. Although you have defected for a moment, you're

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Speaker 2: momentarily elsewhere. You're in your cate bunker.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But Peop, we're excited to do this podcast because I'm

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Speaker 2: a film enthusiast, but you are a film expert, and

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Speaker 2: we go to the movies all the time, and it's

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Speaker 2: a big part of our friendship is to watch movies

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Speaker 2: talk about movies.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, honestly, like I think I mean, if

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Speaker 1: you want to call me a film expert, I'll let

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Speaker 1: you for the sake of this exercise, but I will

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Speaker 1: say I never want to hang out with other film experts.

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Speaker 2: Do you know what I'm saying?

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Speaker 1: Like, I'm like, why would I do that? So I'm

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Speaker 1: so glad that I roped you into doing this podcast

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Speaker 1: with me because I'm like Danielle Is, she is like

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Speaker 1: a perfect you like love film, but you're not like,

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Speaker 1: you know, in that world where you're like, well, actually, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm not in nineteen forty eight the key grip for

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Speaker 1: you know, blah blah blah. You're not you know, nailing

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Speaker 1: me every five minutes for getting like a year wrong

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Speaker 1: for something.

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Speaker 2: No way, Well, at least I was until we started

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Speaker 2: doing this, and now I'm in a long, straight, cold

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Speaker 2: facts out. But that's why I'm glad to be doing

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Speaker 2: this with you as well, because when I say film expert,

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Speaker 2: I mean it, like you you're so knowledgeable about film

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Speaker 2: and it's part of your job you're a film programmer

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Speaker 2: for TCM, but it's also part of your life. So

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Speaker 2: when you talk about movies, it's just so enthusiastic and

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Speaker 2: you don't make me feel like oh you've never watched this,

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Speaker 2: We'll get I can't talk to you if you've never

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Speaker 2: watched you know, Gone with the Wind, and it's you know,

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Speaker 2: I like that. I appreciate that about it.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's really sweet. I'm really glad that you see

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Speaker 1: me like that, because I think, again going back to

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Speaker 1: sort of like the film person stereotypes, like you know,

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Speaker 1: I think that film, like music, like a lot of things,

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Speaker 1: is just an intimidating subject because it's, you know, span

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Speaker 1: the course of history. It's there's a lot going on. Uh,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot that has gone on, and so it's

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Speaker 1: sort of like a thing where you're like, oh, man,

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Speaker 1: I don't even know. I think it's really enjoyable to

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Speaker 1: hang out with people who haven't watched movies that I watched.

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Speaker 1: And I'm also not the type of person that's trying

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Speaker 1: to like get you to watch a movie like in

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Speaker 1: that way where it's like, come on, what are you stupid?

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Speaker 1: Like you've never seen blah blah blah. I just think

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Speaker 1: that's so there's so many reasons why people haven't watched movies.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot of movies I haven't watched

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Speaker 1: that would probably shock so many people in my field.

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Speaker 1: For me to do a podcast with somebody who's more

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Speaker 1: of a cultural critic, I would say about you, I

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Speaker 1: think that you're a writer, You're definitely a scholar of

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Speaker 1: culture and gender, and you know, it's just going to

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Speaker 1: be really interesting to do it with you because you're

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Speaker 1: just so super smart, like I mean honestly, like you

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Speaker 1: are way more accomplished.

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Speaker 2: Than I am.

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Speaker 3: I'm like going, oh, you've like written a book, two books,

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Speaker 3: and you are, you know, really well known for your

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Speaker 3: perspective and what you offer.

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Speaker 1: So it's gonna be great.

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Speaker 2: Like but the good the cool thing that I'm not

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Speaker 2: wearing pants right now, So accomplished or not, I'm still

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Speaker 2: a dirt bag.

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Speaker 1: I think that's what it comes down to, is that

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Speaker 1: we can still be complete dirt bags exactly, but being

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Speaker 1: you know, esteemed them.

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Speaker 2: Dirt bags would be a great second name for our podcast.

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Speaker 2: But that's also why we're doing this. We are we

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Speaker 2: want to make movies accessible to people and make people

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Speaker 2: feel like, you know, if you've never seen this, then

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Speaker 2: let's talk about it. It's cool. You'll have ways to

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Speaker 2: an accessible way to get into movies you might not

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Speaker 2: have ever seen or heard of and we just want

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Speaker 2: to help you build up your your library in that

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Speaker 2: way and build the fun in your life, because some

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Speaker 2: of these are fun. And we're going to get into

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Speaker 2: doing that by picking a different theme that we have

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Speaker 2: come up with every week.

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Speaker 1: The themes are going to be sort of informed by

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Speaker 1: our experiences as women. Our experiences is like moviegoers and

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Speaker 1: then just our life experiences. And so I mean, I

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Speaker 1: want to stress that a lot of times you're going

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Speaker 1: to come to the podcast and go, oh, wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: what about this movie? That's what the point is, like

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Speaker 1: we want We're not trying to be exhaustive.

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Speaker 2: We're not.

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Speaker 1: Those are basically like double features about specific themes that

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Speaker 1: we think are like entertaining or funny, or just sort

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Speaker 1: of through lines between movies that we've seen over the years.

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Speaker 1: And like I said, we want to have that conversation

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Speaker 1: with you. If there's something in the theme that you

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Speaker 1: think is like a no brainer and you want to

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Speaker 1: talk about it it's something that means something to you,

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Speaker 1: then definitely contact us. That's what we want and we

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Speaker 1: want this to be like a conversation.

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Speaker 2: So and it's also cool that we're not white or men.

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Speaker 2: We're two brown ladies Welcome, White men dominate Film podcast,

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Speaker 2: Let's be real, And we wanted to kind of disrupt

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Speaker 2: that a little bit and again prove that films are

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Speaker 2: for everyone. Yeah, that's what we're doing.

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Speaker 1: I'm so happy that we're at least getting together and

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Speaker 1: talking about movies on this podcast, because it's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: right now, I won't tell you I'm I'm living with family.

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Speaker 1: I'm quarantining with family right now.

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Speaker 4: And you talk about people that don't know a damn

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Speaker 4: thing about movies, like they don't know a damn thing,

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Speaker 4: and I'm not again, I'm not trying to like paint.

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Speaker 1: Them as like, you know, oh man, what a I'm

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Speaker 1: not a snob. I am like the opposite of a snob,

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Speaker 1: but they don't know shit, Like you're living with people.

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Speaker 2: Who don't even speak your language basically.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I'm like, my mom and dad have

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Speaker 1: like seven DVDs. I think they're just there's like seven

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Speaker 1: DVDs in a drawer and it's the most random shit.

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Speaker 1: It's like, you know, euro Trip and then like dun't like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's like a you know, the Nicholas Cage Scorsese movie

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Speaker 1: that was about the ambulance driver, like that movie Bringing

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Speaker 1: Out the Dead, is that what it's called. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I have no idea why the seven were

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Speaker 1: chosen and they just I mean, it's really really bad,

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Speaker 1: but it's kind of like funny to me because obviously

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know how I was born from

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Speaker 1: this ambibvllance, you know, but it's it's funny.

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Speaker 2: It allowed you to go harder in the direction of

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Speaker 2: figuring finding stuff out because it was both you know,

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Speaker 2: the nineties where you had to there was no Internet,

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Speaker 2: you had to find out stuff that you were interested in.

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Speaker 2: You had to really dig deep. But when you come

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Speaker 2: from a background where you're like none of this is

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Speaker 2: even around me, Like I don't know any of this stuff,

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Speaker 2: then of course you go harder at it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And like my like honestly, like when it comes

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Speaker 1: down to my parents are like big cable not like

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Speaker 1: they're into cable movies. I guess that's better than being

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Speaker 1: in like cable news, but they're they will watch anything

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Speaker 1: on like a TNT or like, you know, anything that's

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Speaker 1: on like Stars. You know, they're just really into like

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Speaker 1: watching movies that are just randomly on, Like my dad

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Speaker 1: watched CB four the other day, and I was kind

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Speaker 1: of awesome. I was like, that's awesome, Like what made

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Speaker 1: you want to watch CB four? I was like, do

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Speaker 1: you even know what C before is? Like?

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Speaker 2: Parody? I mean, it's so that is my favorite thing

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Speaker 2: I've ever heard, because I've met your parents and that

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Speaker 2: is darling. So we're gonna have.

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Speaker 1: To get my dad on the C before episode. Apparently

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Speaker 1: you can talk about it.

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Speaker 2: And I have kind of an opposite background, which we'll

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Speaker 2: we'll dig into as the podcast goes on. But I

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Speaker 2: was raised by maniacs, my my grandparents, and my grandmother

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Speaker 2: loves horror movies and she loves gore, she loves carnage,

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Speaker 2: and so my granddad when he died, she put his

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Speaker 2: ashes on a shelf in her bedroom behind her saw

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Speaker 2: and hostile DVDs. So this bitch watches movies all day

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Speaker 2: long and they are terrifying and disgusting, and we're gonna

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Speaker 2: hear we might hear from her later. We'll occasionally call

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Speaker 2: her up and get her her opinion on Uh.

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Speaker 1: God, I cannot wait.

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Speaker 2: So basically, so the theme of this podcast in the

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Speaker 2: way that we're introducing and talking to movies and being

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Speaker 2: part of the film community is that we're each going

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Speaker 2: to watch a movie every week. We're going to watch

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Speaker 2: these two movies and present them to each other. What's

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Speaker 2: the theme this week?

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Speaker 1: The theme this week is our favorite true crime films?

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Speaker 4: Uh?

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Speaker 2: List them? How long?

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Speaker 1: Yes? So this is these are movies that were based

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Speaker 1: in part on actual crimes. And you know, again, like

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Speaker 1: you said, it can be a very long list, but

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Speaker 1: you know these are kind of our fames.

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Speaker 2: What did you watch for your true crime?

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Speaker 1: So my movie this week is a movie from nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy directed by a man named Leonard Castle. It's called

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Speaker 1: The Honeymoon Killers.

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Speaker 5: Ray was a con man who made one mistake. He

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Speaker 5: fell in love and took Martha along for the run.

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Speaker 5: I can arrange a meeting with a very nice woman

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Speaker 5: in the warning there's no harm in writing to somebody

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Speaker 5: who's so gentle and refine and whose sister is a nurse.

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Speaker 5: Ray and Martha could have been the Honeymoon lovers, but

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Speaker 5: Martha's insane jealousy turned them into Honeymoon Killers.

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Speaker 1: So have you ever seen this movie before?

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Speaker 2: No, I'd never seen it until we decided to talk

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Speaker 2: about it. And a lot of things stood out to

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Speaker 2: me as pretty fantastic about it. A lot of themes

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Speaker 2: we'll get into and talk about, but I was really

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Speaker 2: primarily struck by the actor, the lead actress of this film.

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Speaker 2: So maybe you can tell us a little bit about

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Speaker 2: why you chose this movie and who she is and

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Speaker 2: what's yeah, so based on so.

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Speaker 1: You know, this is one of this is one of

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Speaker 1: actually my favorite films. I mean, you know, I have

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Speaker 1: a lot, but this is one of them. So the

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Speaker 1: original story was based off of this couple who were

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Speaker 1: called the Lonely Hearts Killers. Their names are Martha Beck

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Speaker 1: and Raymond Fernandez, and they were essentially con artists, where

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Speaker 1: their whole con was that they relied on this Lonely

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Speaker 1: Hearts club, which is a very old concept now because

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Speaker 1: now O g Tinder. Oh yeah. It was essentially where

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Speaker 1: lonely women would write in write letters to find lonely

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Speaker 1: men and then they get paired up and then they

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Speaker 1: just wrote letters to each other. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And then what's cool about Martha and ray is that they,

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Speaker 2: at least in the in terms of the movie and

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Speaker 2: I believe in real life, is that they actually had

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Speaker 2: a very vibrant letter writing life to get like they

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Speaker 2: really fell in love through their their words.

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Speaker 1: Well that's the whole. That's one of the best sequences

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Speaker 1: in the movie is they're sort of like writing letters

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Speaker 1: to each other and there's kind of this build up

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Speaker 1: and intensity where you know, at first they're kind of like, hey,

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Speaker 1: how's it going, And then they're like, I love you.

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Speaker 1: IM obsessed with you with Candler without you, so it

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Speaker 1: becomes this whole like fevered letter writing exchange. So essentially

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Speaker 1: the movie was the first movie for Leonard Castle. He

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Speaker 1: wrote it initially. Then they went to find a director

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Speaker 1: for it, and initially the director was Martin Scorsese. He

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Speaker 1: lasted about two weeks.

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Speaker 2: He was apparently he was like spending too much time

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Speaker 2: on the details, like he was like panning the river

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Speaker 2: bed or something for too long.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, yeah, I mean he was basically an artiste, right,

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Speaker 1: So they were like, uh, like, we're spending too much

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Speaker 1: money and too much time doing this shit, Like we

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Speaker 1: gotta get this wait to get to the murders. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so they can Marty, and then they brought in Leonard.

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Speaker 1: They're like, well, you wrote it, you might as well

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Speaker 1: direct it.

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Speaker 2: He had never directed, which, first of all, such a

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Speaker 2: seventies move like that guy.

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Speaker 1: And then the two actors that started it, Shirley stole

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Speaker 1: Her and Tony lo Bianco. This was their first film,

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Speaker 1: so it's like everybody's first time. Even though Shirley and

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Speaker 1: Tony had worked in the theater, they had never been

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Speaker 1: on film before. And the thing about Leonard Castle was

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Speaker 1: that when he took over the direction of it, he

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Speaker 1: was basically like Bonnie and Clyde had just come out

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Speaker 1: in like sixty eight and this movie was sixty nine seventy,

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Speaker 1: so at the time, everybody was obsessed with, you know,

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Speaker 1: Bonnie and Clyde in this idea that like beautiful, Warren

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Speaker 1: Baty and Faye Dunaway were these like sexy murderers, and

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Speaker 1: Laric Castle is like fuck that, Like like I don't

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Speaker 1: want to show sexy, hot people. I want to show

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Speaker 1: the ready real people who are real people who are

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Speaker 1: not you know, hot movie stars, Like we're gonna get

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Speaker 1: some real folks in here.

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Speaker 2: Well, he had the perfect opportunity with this movie because

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Speaker 2: Martha as a character is a mess, and I mean physically,

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Speaker 2: like he showed that, like she shot them in different

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Speaker 2: angles where you could show like the flabby arms, and

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Speaker 2: like he really showed like the the reality of what

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Speaker 2: it is to be an obsessive.

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Speaker 1: Love well, and like, Shirley Stolers is such an amazing

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Speaker 1: actress I think honestly, I mean she is my girl. Like,

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Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of hers. She's been a lot

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Speaker 1: of great, interesting, weird films in her career, did a

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Speaker 1: lot of character work.

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Speaker 2: She's definitely a proto nurse Ratchet. Oh yeah, she.

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Speaker 1: Kind of has that look. She's got the like she

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Speaker 1: kind of has like a divine like, she's like a

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Speaker 1: very like her eyebrows are really intense, and she just

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Speaker 1: kind of has this like like cult look too.

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Speaker 2: Unlus, the movie opens with her like yelling at people

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Speaker 2: for having sex.

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Speaker 1: So in the film, essentially it kind of just cuts

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Speaker 1: to it kind of removes a little bit of the

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Speaker 1: backstory between Martha and Ray, like individually about the Ray

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Speaker 1: character doesn't have like the thing where he had come

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Speaker 1: from Spain and left his family to become a car

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Speaker 1: and artist. And it doesn't talk about Martha having kids

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Speaker 1: or anything like that.

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Speaker 2: So and they lived in different states.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So essentially in the film, Martha is a nurse

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Speaker 1: and she's living in floridash and she lives with her

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Speaker 1: elderly mother, and she's just kind of like angsty and

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Speaker 1: mean and like yelling at people at her job, and

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Speaker 1: she doesn't seem happy. I guess that's what they're trying

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Speaker 1: to communicate.

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Speaker 2: And not only lives with her mother, sleeps in a

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Speaker 2: bedroom with her mother. Yeah, they have the twin bed

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Speaker 2: situation of the forties and fifties. I think is the

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Speaker 2: reason a lot of murders happened because I could not

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Speaker 2: it was so tense to watch that relationship simply because

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Speaker 2: you knew they then had to lay down next to

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Speaker 2: each other at night.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, listen, that is an old school thing,

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Speaker 1: Like I mean, I like, I remember watching episodes of

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Speaker 1: The Golden Girls where Sophia and Dorothy slept in the

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Speaker 1: same bed, and I was like, oh, damn, Like, I

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Speaker 1: love my mom, but unless we're on vacation together and

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Speaker 1: I ain't trying to sleep in the same bed because

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Speaker 1: I need my space. No, And especially at that moment

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Speaker 1: where she was feeling like, you know, lonely, and it

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Speaker 1: was basically like, oh, I live with my mom and

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Speaker 1: I sleep in the same room with my mom, Like

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Speaker 1: I have no life. So she's you know, obviously like

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Speaker 1: kind of feeling some type of way about it, but like,

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Speaker 1: essentially what happens is is that her friend in the film,

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Speaker 1: who is played by Doris Roberts from Everybody Loves Raymond

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Speaker 1: as a Lark, decides that she's gonna send Martha like

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Speaker 1: she's gonna sign Martha up for a lonely Hearts club,

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Speaker 1: and does, and Martha is like, oh shit, why did

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Speaker 1: you do this? I'm not looking for this. But then

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Speaker 1: eventually she gets in touch with ray and ray is

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Speaker 1: writing letters to her, and then that's when you see

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Speaker 1: the sequence of the two of them kind of connecting

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Speaker 1: writing letters to each other, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: And he's a lothario right off the bat, like he's

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Speaker 2: got pictures of women on his piano or the women

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Speaker 2: he's wooed, Like, you get that solidly that he is.

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Speaker 1: He is the classic Latin lover trope where he's you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of with a shirt open and his chest hair

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Speaker 1: hanging out, and he's real sexy. So they finally meet

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Speaker 1: in real life. He comes down to Florida and they

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Speaker 1: spend you know, a couple days together, and he's wooing

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Speaker 1: both her and her mother. I have to say, and

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Speaker 1: then he leaves and Martha is despondent, so he goes

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Speaker 1: back to New York and then he writes her kind

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Speaker 1: of like a dear J letter that's just like I

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Speaker 1: like you, but it ain't gonna happen, and of course

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Speaker 1: she flips the fuck out threatened suicide. Suicide gets Doris

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Speaker 1: Roberts to call him and be like, can you tell

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Speaker 1: him I'm about to kill myself because I just really

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Speaker 1: want it, like I want to date.

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Speaker 2: That was such a creepy scene where she was just

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Speaker 2: sitting on the bed like coaching her friend to do

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Speaker 2: this dirty work of convincing this man that she was

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Speaker 2: about to kill herself for him. That was like next level,

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Speaker 2: Like we've all I feel like we can all say

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Speaker 2: we threatened to kill ourselves over a guy, But when

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Speaker 2: I get my friend involved, like that is next level psychopathic.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it is tantamount to like, you know,

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Speaker 1: posting like a thoughty picture of yourself on Instagram and

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Speaker 1: be like, yo, like you know exactly, pay attention to

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Speaker 1: me guy that I want to date. But basically she

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Speaker 1: but it works well. It worked in this case because

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Speaker 1: Ray was like all right, fine, calm to New York.

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Speaker 1: So he's like, here's the deal. I con lonely middle

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Speaker 1: aged women for money. Maybe I tried it with you

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Speaker 1: and apparently it didn't work, because now you're here, and uh,

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Speaker 1: this is who I am.

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Speaker 2: And I love that. She was just like you know what.

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Speaker 2: Solid She's like, fuck yeah, let's do it together.

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Speaker 1: She's like I don't care, and he's like what she

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Speaker 1: sees me, I guess you know this is meant to

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Speaker 1: be or whatever.

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Speaker 2: And that is something about this movie that hit me

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Speaker 2: over like right away. As an overarching theme is this

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Speaker 2: idea of obsessiveness. And I don't think it came through

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Speaker 2: in the movie very strongly that he was obsessed with her,

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Speaker 2: because I think in real life he was, but it

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Speaker 2: definitely came through from her that she was willing to

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Speaker 2: do anything for this particular man.

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Speaker 5: Well.

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Speaker 1: I think that that's the theme of the film, yeah,

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Speaker 1: is that the film is about lonely women, right, and

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Speaker 1: lonely women who are willing to just fucking go there

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Speaker 1: for companionship. She was like like, okay, like I'm down

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Speaker 1: with this, and I will be not only that, but

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Speaker 1: I will be your accomplice and I will help you

380
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Speaker 1: swindle these women even though I was potentially a victim

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Speaker 1: of yours.

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Speaker 2: Their a long girl crime, right.

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Speaker 1: So she's like, So then eventually she's like, I'm on board.

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Speaker 1: Let me go back down to Florida, get my mom

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Speaker 1: in a nursing home so I don't have to deal

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Speaker 1: with her anymore.

387
00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:09,520
Speaker 2: I've already drugged her so we could have sex. Yes,

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Speaker 2: I've already sleeping builed her to the max.

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Speaker 1: Right, And I'm a nurse, so I'm an expert at

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Speaker 1: drugging people. So that's and then of course the mother

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Speaker 1: is like, you know, you're leaving me and to be happy,

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Speaker 1: and that's you know, it's very complicated.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, that was also a different a different time.

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Speaker 2: And something that that struck me is that it was

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Speaker 2: expected for women to first give up their lives for

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Speaker 2: men and then give up their lives for family. Oh sure,

397
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Speaker 2: in every capacity. So her mom is like, legit, hanging

398
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Speaker 2: out a window, like I can't like that, could not

399
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Speaker 2: be laying on a thicker guilt trip. And she's like,

400
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Speaker 2: in order for me to live my life, I have

401
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Speaker 2: to marry a con man and become a murderer.

402
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Speaker 1: So eventually what happens is is that she leaves Mom

403
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Speaker 1: and then she starts going on the road with Ray,

404
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:56,960
Speaker 1: and you know, Ray is continuing to you know, do

405
00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,399
Speaker 1: his scam, which is that he's answering his letters from

406
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Speaker 1: these lonely old women you know, who are writing in

407
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Speaker 1: and I have to say, like they're victims during this

408
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Speaker 1: entire section of the film, are there tip They're like

409
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Speaker 1: what I would consider kind of like that Middle America.

410
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Speaker 1: They're all like middle aged white women who are into

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Speaker 1: Jesus and the United States, and they are patriotic, and

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Speaker 1: they're just kind of.

413
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Speaker 2: Like, these are women who are so happy that they

414
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Speaker 2: will sing the national anthem in the bathtub, which was

415
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Speaker 2: something that rocked me more than the murders. When I

416
00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,040
Speaker 2: saw that bitch in that tub scrubbing her back and

417
00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,720
Speaker 2: singing about the Purple Mountains, majesty, I was like, what

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Speaker 2: is actually happening right now?

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Speaker 1: And I was like, I don't even know if I've

420
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Speaker 1: been ever the I don't think I've ever been that

421
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Speaker 1: happy where I'm like singing the national anthem.

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Speaker 2: Ever, Yeah, much less than a tub or shower, That's true.

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Speaker 2: That's not the height of happiness for me.

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Speaker 1: And that's also not like the first song I go

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Speaker 1: to whenever I'm just like in the shower or whatever,

426
00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:59,800
Speaker 1: King Cole or but anyway, as you know, so what

427
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,919
Speaker 1: happens is that like as this these scams are unfolding,

428
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Speaker 1: like she's like she's posing as his sister. So they're

429
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Speaker 1: going to these different towns, meeting up with these lonely women,

430
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Speaker 1: and the vibe is that he's just going to like

431
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Speaker 1: romance them until they sign their insurance checks or they

432
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,040
Speaker 1: give them to give them cash from their bank accounts,

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Speaker 1: and then he's gone or they're gone. So while this

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Speaker 1: is happening, like Martha is gone, all right, I know

435
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:30,359
Speaker 1: I was on board with this, but man, it is

436
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:32,720
Speaker 1: hard to see the dude that I love and would

437
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,000
Speaker 1: have killed myself for be with other women. And I

438
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:37,840
Speaker 1: know that he's telling me, oh no, they don't mean

439
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:39,640
Speaker 1: nothing to me, and I'm not having sex with them,

440
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:41,880
Speaker 1: even though he's s having sex with them like some

441
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:47,320
Speaker 1: of them, and she's just slowly becoming unglued. Yeah, And

442
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:51,679
Speaker 1: you know, as I'm reading the actual crime, it seemed

443
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:53,879
Speaker 1: like that was happening too, but I think for the

444
00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:57,960
Speaker 1: movie purposes, it became this whole like what's gonna happen

445
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,520
Speaker 1: when Martha finally flips the fuck out on this situation

446
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,119
Speaker 1: that she's in now, where she's basically told herself, well,

447
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:05,560
Speaker 1: in order to be with this guy, then I'm gonna

448
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 1: have to run this scam and pretend to be not

449
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,000
Speaker 1: in love with them. And there's a scene, my favorite scene,

450
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,520
Speaker 1: and actually the scene that one of the two scenes

451
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 1: that Martin Scorsese is actually shot, which is the scene

452
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,119
Speaker 1: at the lake where he's with one of his new

453
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,359
Speaker 1: women and like they're both in these bathing suits, you know,

454
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,960
Speaker 1: like Tony lo Bianco is like a cut, little cut,

455
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:33,359
Speaker 1: a shot with these tiny shorts and he's got hair

456
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:35,560
Speaker 1: everywhere and he's just like a push ups on the

457
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 1: banks of the river and shit, like you know. And

458
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 1: then his new woman, the woman from the service, is

459
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 1: like she's like an older woman, but she's very you know,

460
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:45,960
Speaker 1: she's attractive and fit, and she's wearing this bathing suit.

461
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:50,520
Speaker 1: And then you see Martha sitting there in a robe,

462
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:55,200
Speaker 1: because lord knows, it's vulnerable to be in a bathing suit,

463
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,959
Speaker 1: especially when at her size, where she was feeling like

464
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:04,679
Speaker 1: kind of not right about the way she looked. And

465
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 1: then you watching your man cobordate with something other woman

466
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 1: in a bathing suit. They're in the river, like, you know,

467
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,439
Speaker 1: splashing each other, and she's just like losing it, like

468
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 1: her eyes, you know whatever. And it's like there's that

469
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,400
Speaker 1: moment where I was like, man, is there anything lonelier

470
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,399
Speaker 1: than that? Like, is there anything lonelier than watching like

471
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:25,680
Speaker 1: your crush, your guy hanging out with some other girl

472
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 1: in bathing suits?

473
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 2: Yeah?

474
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 1: Baby, you are having an abating suit and you don't

475
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 1: want to be in an.

476
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,360
Speaker 2: A bathing suit. So well, she did the next natural thing,

477
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 2: which is to threaten to drown herself.

478
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 1: And then Ray you know, it's where's time he is

479
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 1: to go get her? And you know, I think at

480
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,440
Speaker 1: that moment you really realize, Okay, well maybe they are

481
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 1: in it together. Because at first I was kind of like, oh,

482
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:48,959
Speaker 1: he's taking this woman for a ride again. But then

483
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:53,400
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, he cares, right, And it's so, if anything,

484
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: he cares because she is onto him and will bust

485
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 1: his ass for running these scams. Like they're in it

486
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 1: together now and there's no turning back.

487
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 2: But then she's the one who kind of goes to

488
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:06,400
Speaker 2: the murder moment, right, Like she's the one who kind

489
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,879
Speaker 2: of goes to like I'm gonna put this lady on

490
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,680
Speaker 2: a bus and give her pills and get her out

491
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 2: of her life, and I don't care what happens to her, right.

492
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:16,680
Speaker 2: It was that was kind of a sadness that I

493
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 2: was feeling in this in this movie, which is that

494
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 2: it's so sad that these women were being swindled so

495
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,399
Speaker 2: much and all they really wanted was attention and care

496
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 2: and love. Like that was that was sad.

497
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean this is kind of like, I mean,

498
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 1: this is this is probably what makes the movie kind

499
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 1: of a good movie to me, And what makes emotional

500
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 1: is because it's like, you know, ultimately, this is a

501
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 1: story about a woman who is just desperate for connection

502
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 1: and she basically just like will do it at any cost,

503
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,679
Speaker 1: and you know, and the weird thing about this movie

504
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 1: is that there is kind of like no one to

505
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 1: root for at the end of the day, because eventually

506
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 1: she becomes completely complicit.

507
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 2: Like even though.

508
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,400
Speaker 1: You're like, Okay, I understand why she's doing this, she's

509
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,919
Speaker 1: doing it because she's fucked up about love. But at

510
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,400
Speaker 1: the same time you're like, nah, you drowned a kid. Yeah,

511
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,919
Speaker 1: and then you know, you hit a lady with a

512
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: hammer any drowned or kid and like, so you're in it,

513
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: and like whatever mental jump that you had to take

514
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,919
Speaker 1: to go there makes you not likable, right, But I

515
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,120
Speaker 1: also think that that is interesting that she's not likable

516
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 1: because there's no happy ending to any of this. It's

517
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 1: like that, you know, these in real life, these people

518
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: were convicted of these murders and then they died in

519
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:36,399
Speaker 1: the electric chair. They were you know, killed for their crimes.

520
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 4: Yeah.

521
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 1: So that's the thing is that there is no happy ending.

522
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,880
Speaker 1: And you know, that's what I think is great about

523
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 1: the film is that it doesn't pretend to be happy.

524
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 1: It's just like, yo, yeah, they are as bad as

525
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 1: they are and there is no love, Like it's just

526
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 1: like they're horrible people in the end.

527
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 2: It also kind of feels like a very nice point

528
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 2: of departure from a lot of true crime films because

529
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 2: they're not trying. I don't even feel like that the

530
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 2: victims were that sympathetic in a lot of ways, Like

531
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 2: I don't think they deserve to die, but I think

532
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,399
Speaker 2: that some of them were a little annoying and a

533
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 2: little needy and a little cloying and a little bit much.

534
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,879
Speaker 2: So I can see how again, the representation of that

535
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 2: in film is that this is something to be wary

536
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 2: of as a woman, like, don't be too much because

537
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:20,919
Speaker 2: a man might kill you. Well, yeah, it's.

538
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 1: Another interesting part of it for sure, because you know,

539
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,239
Speaker 1: it is sort of like you wonder, I mean, there

540
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 1: was a absolute stereotype of like a lonely middle aged

541
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 1: spinster who is annoying and who is who and is

542
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:38,919
Speaker 1: not you know, soft and gentle, and they're you know,

543
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:40,919
Speaker 1: they're weird and well cookie.

544
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 2: None of these women seem to be culturally acceptable, right, So, like,

545
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 2: if these women had existed now, it would have been

546
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,199
Speaker 2: completely fine for them to be on their own, to

547
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 2: not have a dude, to like live their own life.

548
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 2: They wouldn't have to have the twin bed situation with

549
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 2: their moms. Like, but this they were not culturally acceptable

550
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 2: within the moment, you know, because they wanted too much

551
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 2: or they wanted something different. And that's interesting true crime

552
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:01,880
Speaker 2: perspective for sure.

553
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. But you know, as a movie, I mean, it's great,

554
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: Like I think it's a gem. Honestly, I feel like

555
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,919
Speaker 1: it doesn't get talked about enough. It's on Criterion Collection,

556
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 1: so there's a really great, you know copy of it

557
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 1: out there and there's lots of great extras on that

558
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: I think it's on Blu Ray, but you know, it's

559
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 1: it's such a great film and it's it's again, it's

560
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 1: very unique in the sense that it was made at

561
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 1: a certain time, it was made by like it was

562
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: the first films for pretty much everybody involved, and it

563
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: you know, really is kind of like a gritty, raw,

564
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 1: sort of fucked up movie.

565
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 2: It's savage. It's one of those movies that I kind

566
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 2: of I want, even though I'm just seeing it now

567
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 2: for the first time at forty two. I want young

568
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 2: women to watch this movie and to realize that again

569
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 2: not taking the leap into murder, but to realize that,

570
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 2: you know, your feelings are valid and it's hard to date.

571
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 2: It's hard to be out in the world, and it's

572
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 2: hard to want things, and like it's hard to have

573
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 2: these these emotions. But to kind of see this real

574
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 2: ordinary woman. I think it's important foundationally for girls to

575
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 2: see that, like to see complicated messy women.

576
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 1: Well, speaking of complicated messy women, yeah, and speaking of obsession,

577
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 1: let's talk about your movie for this week.

578
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,439
Speaker 2: My movie this week is Heavenly Creatures, directed by Peter Jackson.

579
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 2: They were two young girls living in a world of imagination.

580
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 2: I'm going to the fourth world. It's an absolute paradise

581
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 2: of music, art and pure enjoyment.

582
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 1: What they shared was a secret.

583
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 5: Your daughter's in behaving in a rather disturbed an.

584
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: What's she done?

585
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 5: I think I'm going crazy?

586
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 1: The crime that shocked the nation.

587
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 2: People die every day. Me the best people fight against

588
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 2: all obstacles.

589
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: She's uncontrollable.

590
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 2: So this movie came out in nineteen ninety four, directed

591
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 2: by Peter Jackson. It was based on a real life

592
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 2: case that happened in christ Church, New Zealand. It's the

593
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 2: Parker Hume murder and the details of the case is

594
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 2: that sixteen year old Pauline Parker and her fifteen year

595
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 2: old bestie Juliet Hume basically conspired to kill her mom

596
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 2: when they couldn't when they found out Juliet's family was

597
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 2: moving and would be separating them from each other, and

598
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 2: they succeeded in doing that. They put a brick in

599
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 2: a stocking and bashed her mom on the head on

600
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 2: a walk and then ran out into the street and

601
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 2: kind of got attention, and they were hoping it would

602
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 2: be seen as an accident that they could write off

603
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 2: and then they could be together and run the Hollywood

604
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 2: and become these famous movie actresses, because again they are teenagers,

605
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 2: but they legitimately murdered her mom. So what ended up

606
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 2: happening is that both of them were found guilty. They

607
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 2: both served a five year sentence, but a condition of

608
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 2: their release was that they were ordered to never be

609
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 2: in contact with each other again, which seems like something

610
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 2: I definitely want to talk about.

611
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 1: It seems almost impossible, I know, but it's a weird way.

612
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 2: It's the reason this movie comes across to me is

613
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 2: like so romantic, and it does stick to the real

614
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 2: story pretty closely, even though Juliette has since said that

615
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 2: they didn't have a sexual relationship, and that was definitely

616
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 2: part of the movie. But what really gets to me

617
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 2: about this and what I thought matched with our theme

618
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 2: really well, is that it's not just a true crime.

619
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 2: It's a true crime about a romantic relationship in a

620
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 2: different way. Sure, it's not purely sexual, it's not purely

621
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 2: you know, it's not a purely sexual relationship, but it's

622
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 2: still a very deeply romantic relationship and it's based in

623
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 2: the kind of frenzy that a lot of us feel

624
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 2: as young women when we're forming friendships. You know, some

625
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 2: of them are very romantic, even again if they never

626
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 2: become sexual. So I think that there is something to

627
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 2: be said about the fact that they get together. But

628
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 2: then also how they bond is very interesting because this

629
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 2: is again nineteen fifties christ Church, New Zealand, all girls' school.

630
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 2: They're both kind of precocious in different ways, and I

631
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 2: think that Pauline is a little more insular with her

632
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 2: precociousness and Juliette's very outspoken.

633
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,239
Speaker 1: Which I feel like has to do with class. But

634
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 1: that's completely well because it is a very classiest movie.

635
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 1: It's a class based movie. You've got juliet and her

636
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: grand mansion and her you know, running swaning around the

637
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: fields with her long dresses, and then you've got Pauline

638
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 1: living in the middle of the city with her family

639
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: and they run a boarding house against meet and her

640
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: dad works as like a fishmonger. So it is very

641
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 1: classed as well, for sure.

642
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 2: But there was something about not just the frenzy, so

643
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 2: they kind of bond over this idea or the knowledge

644
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 2: that they're both sick, so they're both sitting out in

645
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 2: gym class and are asking each other why, and basically,

646
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 2: Juliette has struggled with tuberculosis, Pauline struggled with osteomyelitis, which

647
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 2: is like a bone bone sickness and one of the

648
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 2: best lines in this movie. So we've got, first of all,

649
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 2: it's the actresses are incredible. You've got Melanie Lynsky, very young,

650
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 2: but like clearly showing some of the incredible range that

651
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 2: she has to this day. And this was Kate Winslet's

652
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 2: first movie. She'd done television before this, but never done film.

653
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 2: So we've got these kind of ange news, you know,

654
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 2: and they're kind of so they're bonding over this this

655
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 2: sickness connection that they have, and they're kind of They're

656
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 2: sitting on this bench and Kate Winslet says, after they

657
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 2: discover what each of their illnesses are, Kate Winslett says,

658
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 2: all the best people have that chest and bone diseases,

659
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 2: which is just such an incredible way to think about,

660
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 2: like drawing power from your biggest flaw, Like that would

661
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 2: definitely be on some Instagram quote. That is for sure

662
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 2: to me that like they bond in this way and

663
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 2: then they take off, they're just inseparable from day one,

664
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 2: so there's a frenzy to this, but there's also such

665
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 2: an incredible fantasy life and they're very childlike in this

666
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 2: way where they're fantasy life with each other is built

667
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 2: in you know, this world where Mario Lanza serenading them

668
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 2: Mary Alonza.

669
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm gonna tell you, like, like it's so funny

670
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 6: because I'm like, I it's this weird moment like where

671
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 6: you watch like forties usually.

672
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 1: Forties and fifties movies like pre rock and Roll almost

673
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: where you're like, oh, people fucked with Mario Lonza, Like

674
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: teenagers went crazy for Mario Lonza.

675
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 2: There's a lot of rending of garments.

676
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, like they're like running around town like kissing posters

677
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: of Mario Lawnson.

678
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 2: I'm kind of like, damn, that is fucking crazy. It's

679
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 2: just a normal dude, Like he just looks like it.

680
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 2: It looks like a normal guy.

681
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 1: Listen, no disrespect to mister Lonza, but like his move

682
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: like we play. You know, I've seen a lot of

683
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 1: his films in the past, and it's like a lot

684
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 1: of like blah blah blah blah blah, and I'm like, wow,

685
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: it's a lot, like you have to watch more than

686
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:13,439
Speaker 1: one in a row, it's a lot.

687
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 2: But they loved it. They were sprung. They were sprung

688
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 2: on it, like running through the woods, tearing their clothes off, sprung.

689
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 2: And so their answer. There's again this connection in both

690
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 2: of these films to this like this idea of being

691
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 2: possessive of each other versus being possessed by each other. Sure,

692
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,720
Speaker 2: and there's definitely this moment in Heavenly Creatures that goes from,

693
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 2: you know, we're together, everything is great, we have this,

694
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 2: We've created this entire fantasy world together, we can exist

695
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 2: outside of the boundaries of what we know. And then

696
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,439
Speaker 2: they're they're torn apart, and it becomes very quickly goes

697
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,760
Speaker 2: from I want to die to I want to kill Wow,

698
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 2: And that is interesting to me.

699
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 1: Well, okay, so they're the whole idea is that they're

700
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 1: just sort of like obsessed with being around each other.

701
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 1: And it becomes clear, like there's a part of the

702
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 1: film where Kate Winsley's character because here's the other thing

703
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 1: that I found really heartbreaking about the two of them

704
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: is because they absolutely trauma bonded because of their sicknesses,

705
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 1: right and Kate well and Winsley's character in particular, I

706
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 1: think because she was rich and had rich parents, they

707
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 1: were the types that were like, you're sick, We're gonna

708
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 1: send you away to like a tropical environment so you

709
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 1: can get over your whatever, and then rull just leave

710
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 1: you there.

711
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 2: They kept saying that, like, well, we're just gonna like,

712
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:30,879
Speaker 2: it's good for your health, it's good for your health,

713
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 2: it's good for your health, and it's like, well, being

714
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 2: a negligent parent is not good for my health. So

715
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:36,919
Speaker 2: let's start at the foundation of that.

716
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,359
Speaker 1: And I know that was a thing a lot more

717
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 1: than it is now. I mean now you can't even

718
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 1: imagine that kind of stuff. It's like, but you know,

719
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,319
Speaker 1: back in the days, we're like you had tuberculosis like

720
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: that where they're like you're going to an asylum and

721
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: we're leaving you there like until for months, until you

722
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 1: get better. So she was like that. Fuck, she was lonely,

723
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 1: and I think that's why, and the two of them

724
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 1: being sick like that, I think is what caused them

725
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 1: to over invest in each other. So they get to

726
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:09,320
Speaker 1: the point where Kate Williamslet's character actually does get tb

727
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: and essentially needs to recover, and there's this whole chain

728
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 1: of events where her father has to walk away from

729
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 1: his job and then they get divorced, and basically she's like,

730
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 1: you're gonna like the families that you're moving to South

731
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 1: Africa because you need to get for your health, but

732
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 1: also we don't want to deal with you well.

733
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 2: And also by that point it was very much the

734
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 2: parents that stepped in and were like, this friendship is

735
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 2: too much. Oh yeah.

736
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: By that time, the parents were like, they are lesbians.

737
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 1: We need to handle it in the nineteen fifties way

738
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 1: that we handle lesbians, which is like you're going to Africa.

739
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:47,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, like I'm sending this white girl to Africa. Now

740
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:48,760
Speaker 2: they dealt with being a lesbian.

741
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 1: We will eventually give you electro shock treatment because we

742
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 1: think that homosexuality is a disease.

743
00:36:56,360 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 2: But the parents were kind of the catalyst for for

744
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 2: the the kind of extreme trauma coming to the surface,

745
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 2: I think, which is that they were fine when they

746
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 2: were together. It was hard for Pauline when Juliette was

747
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 2: gone getting this treatment for for tuberculosis for a few months,

748
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:15,760
Speaker 2: but they've still had a friend. If they were writing letters,

749
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 2: they still had their fantasy life. So it was the

750
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:21,240
Speaker 2: threat of being permanently dislodged from each other that brought

751
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 2: this kind of madness to the surface more for Pauline

752
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 2: than it did for juliet. Juliette was very upset, but

753
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 2: Pauline was instantly just like, the way through this is

754
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 2: to kill my mom because she's the.

755
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,320
Speaker 1: Obstacle here, right, because the parenting styles I feel like

756
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 1: are different. Also maybe class baseport. It's that, you know,

757
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 1: you know, the Kate Winslet character's parents are like you'd

758
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 1: do that was fuck you one. In fact, we don't

759
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 1: even want to see you. We're sending you away to

760
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 1: other countries, whereas Melanie Lensky's parents were like hardcore on

761
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 1: and overhere you are at all times, like you know,

762
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 1: you live in a house.

763
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 2: She couldn't even get a passport because they wouldn't sign

764
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 2: for it. Yeah, she was really stuck. So I think

765
00:37:58,480 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 2: that it made sense to me that she would go

766
00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 2: to this this murder place.

767
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 1: But she felt like the mom was too overbearing, and

768
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 1: you know, she was brooding. I think she was normally.

769
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,839
Speaker 1: I think in her real life she was brooding because

770
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,360
Speaker 1: you said that you saw the real life photographs of

771
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 1: her and she looked pissed off.

772
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of incredible that the attention to detail

773
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 2: in this movie is fantastic. Yeah, because there is a

774
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 2: photo of Pauline Parker, a school photo where everyone's kind

775
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 2: of you know, looking at the camera and smiling in

776
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,760
Speaker 2: their school uniforms, and she is like arms crossed, head down,

777
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 2: hair frizz scowling like she is not here for any

778
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 2: part of it. And they got that so right. And

779
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 2: I think, you know, Kate Winslet obviously went on to

780
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 2: have this incredibly huge Oscar winning career, but Melanie Lynsky

781
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:44,240
Speaker 2: is incredible in this movie.

782
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 1: Pauline's my girl, let's get serious. I did like a

783
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 1: dark haired, frizzy ass, moppy head of hair. And then

784
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: the photo where she just like the whole school's look

785
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 1: it up, will smile and she's like boom, like look

786
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 1: down the ground. She's like, that's a girl off my own.

787
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 2: Heart and I love it. That's and the movie starts

788
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 2: that way. Everyone's singing the you know, closer walk with

789
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 2: THEE and singing their songs and she's just like staring

790
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 2: at She's the goth one for sure, But I love it,

791
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 2: but I think there is something to be said about

792
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 2: the fear of you know, female sexuality in this movie,

793
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 2: and the fear of you know, women coming together and

794
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 2: young girls especially people freak out when young girls figure

795
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 2: out their emotional life. Yeah, and this movie was again

796
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 2: because it's directed by a dude by Peter Jackson, was

797
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 2: even more impressive to me for that. I think so too.

798
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 1: Actually, I mean not to say that I don't think

799
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 1: Peter Jackson is a sensitive person or or would understand

800
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 1: the nuance of women, but I think they he really

801
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 1: nailed it, Like he really figured out a way to

802
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 1: communicate their kind of mutual obsession with each other without

803
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 1: making it some weird like sexy, yeah teen lesbian thing,

804
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I just feel like, like.

805
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,040
Speaker 2: Not another te lesbian movie style like comedy.

806
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 1: Well you know, it's like a man telling a story

807
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: of these two women. I think could be certainly go

808
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 1: in that direction and pass. But he really did a

809
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 1: great job.

810
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 2: And yeah, you know, there's so much tenderness there. And

811
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 2: I think that because maybe part of it is that

812
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 2: the murder is such a small facet of the movie. Yeah,

813
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 2: it's really about building up the fantasy and it's really

814
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 2: about building up what world they were living in. I

815
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 2: thought he tapped into that really well.

816
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, And they were doing this thing where they were

817
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 1: kind of like writing this story throughout the film, like

818
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: you know, they were obviously very interested in like writing

819
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 1: and literature and history, and then they were kind of

820
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 1: like acting out the relationship between their two characters and

821
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:44,880
Speaker 1: their story, which is like a man and a woman,

822
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 1: and they were kind of like pretending to be the

823
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 1: couple and kind of you know, working that out for themselves,

824
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: which I thought was really interesting.

825
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 2: It was like og fan fiction about each other.

826
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, like they were the actors in their own fan

827
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,319
Speaker 1: fiction or something. It was kind of amazing. Yeah, and

828
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:04,840
Speaker 1: it's pretty cool, and it's definitely I don't know.

829
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:07,799
Speaker 2: I think as far as true crime goes, we need

830
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:12,800
Speaker 2: more true crime movies about women who kill independent of men. Yeah,

831
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 2: And we also need more in depth looks at stuff.

832
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 2: I mean, I remember being a teenager and feeling like

833
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 2: I could have committed a murder when I was a teenager. Yeah,

834
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 2: I had I could have had a list. If any

835
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:23,839
Speaker 2: one of the kids in the hall had been like

836
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 2: you should kill that, I'd like, damn, Oli, you got it.

837
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're so keyed up at that age, you know

838
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 1: what I mean. And it's like and also too, like

839
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 1: I remember, like I didn't so I saw this movie

840
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 1: before we're recording. I had seen maybe when I was

841
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 1: in college, and it holds up so well. Yes, and

842
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 1: it's such a it's such a fucking good movie. And

843
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: I was like really surprised because I you know, it's

844
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:50,399
Speaker 1: hidden differently now than I'm.

845
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 2: An adult, Like, oh, yeah, this is.

846
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 1: Different like when I if I had watched just when

847
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 1: I was a kid, I would have been like, oh

848
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:58,280
Speaker 1: my god, like this is my life.

849
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 2: Nobody can ever tell me what's Ah.

850
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, of course they did. Of course they

851
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 1: did all this stuff. And you know they're not she's

852
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 1: not getting on that ship, like I gotta do something

853
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 1: about this. But you know now I'm like, I'm just

854
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. It is like a glimpse into that

855
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:20,320
Speaker 1: type of relationship that feavered, you know, like your friends

856
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 1: are everything when you're that age.

857
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:25,359
Speaker 2: I mean, any point of correction matters more than any

858
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 2: point of connection matters.

859
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, I'm so glad you picked that.

860
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 2: I know, I think this was a good This is

861
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 2: a good mix. It's like different types of fermances, different

862
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:37,879
Speaker 2: types of obsession, obsession and obsessiveness. But like definitely true

863
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 2: crime people I heard me doing some crimes. They are

864
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 2: doing those truth given some leather gloves, murdering people with

865
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 2: a brick. Also, please tell me what was the caliber

866
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 2: of the pantyhose that they had back then that they

867
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 2: could put a brick in it? Because if I look

868
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 2: at a pair of panty hose right now, I get

869
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:52,919
Speaker 2: a run.

870
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was thinking that too. I was like, that's

871
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 1: some hardcore like post World War two panty hose, and

872
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 1: that's shit. It's like some pure still can like don't know,

873
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 1: didn't come from the eggs, did.

874
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:07,919
Speaker 2: Not mark, There was no legs eggs.

875
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 1: This was like the hardcore stuff that like they you know,

876
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: when the war happened, like they ran out of for

877
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 1: something because they make ships out of it or some shit.

878
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know history, folks, So that's

879
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 1: you're going to have to google that. But no matter what,

880
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 1: hold me to this panteos.

881
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 2: Spank should be on this tip, like spank should be

882
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:31,800
Speaker 2: advertising with a brick inside of a parro heartbeat exactly.

883
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:33,719
Speaker 1: It is always you know, if you want to talk

884
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:35,799
Speaker 1: to us about your favorite your crime films, or any

885
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 1: film really, you can email us. I saw what you

886
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:39,320
Speaker 1: did pot at gmail dot com.

887
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:40,359
Speaker 2: I love to hear from you.

888
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 1: We will read it, and we will recommend that you

889
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:44,800
Speaker 1: do not kill your mother.

890
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 2: We will recommend that you don't kill anyone.

891
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 1: That's right. So we've got a little time at the

892
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 1: end where we like to kind of throw in a

893
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 1: third section. It's always going to kind of rotate, so

894
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 1: one week we're going to probably have some audience participation moments.

895
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 1: So you know, for example, if you have questions about movies,

896
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 1: if you just have things that you want to talk about,

897
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 1: if you want to talk about you know, Robert Redford's

898
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 1: chest hair, by all means, you should email us and

899
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:14,359
Speaker 1: we'll be reading letters. We'll be taking questions that kind

900
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 1: of thing. Also, if you want to find us on

901
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:21,359
Speaker 1: Instagram and Twitter, we're at at I saw Pod And

902
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,880
Speaker 1: that's kind of just I the letter Saw saw Pod.

903
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 1: So what we're gonna talk about right now is something

904
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 1: that is like really, so I have to get back

905
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 1: to like my mom was doing the other night, and

906
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: my parents famously have no taste in movies, but my

907
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: mom has suddenly like been watching a lot of horror.

908
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 5: You know.

909
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 1: My mom's older lady, like, you know, close to seventy,

910
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, I come in the room

911
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 1: and she's watching it chapter two, and I'm like, what

912
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 1: are you talking about? She's never seen it one. She

913
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 1: doesn't even know anything by Stephen King. So I'm a

914
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 1: little confused by this. And I just was like sitting

915
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 1: there thinking, I'm a texted you, Ddale because I was like,

916
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 1: what is up with like older women getting into horror movies?

917
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 1: And it was something that I wanted to ask you

918
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 1: because your grandma is like famously into horror, and I

919
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 1: was hoping you could like tell people about that because

920
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:18,319
Speaker 1: it's awesome she is.

921
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 2: She's a known maniac. I think there is some kind

922
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:28,359
Speaker 2: of connection between the frustration women must feel and must

923
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 2: have felt throughout the decades and not having outlets for

924
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 2: those feelings. So just watching people get murked kind of

925
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 2: became like the thing that made them feel good and

926
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:41,879
Speaker 2: own my own theories about that.

927
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 1: All the years of being repressed. Now they just want

928
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 1: to see murders happen.

929
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, They're like, how about you just kill some people

930
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 2: so I can relax. Can I see one murder so

931
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 2: I can go to bed plea. But there is something

932
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 2: to it. Miranda. Well, she's told me that, you know,

933
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 2: she she's loved horror films since she was a little kid.

934
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:06,759
Speaker 2: And she always loved you know, like the Creature from

935
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 2: the Black Lagoon and kind of all the old school ones.

936
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 2: But it has intensified as she's gotten older. You would

937
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 2: think that it would be something that kind of hits

938
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 2: a peek, But my grandma has seen audition. I have

939
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:20,360
Speaker 2: not seen audition.

940
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:21,280
Speaker 1: Oh my god.

941
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 2: She watches The Walking Dead every Sunday when it's on,

942
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 2: like the new seasons are on. She has Walking Dead

943
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 2: t shirts, She has her whole arsenal of movies in

944
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 2: her house are all horror films, and she she loves it.

945
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 2: And she and the thing that is the most bizarre

946
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 2: is that she laughs her ass off at them. She

947
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 2: delights in horror movies. And so I occasionally reach out

948
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 2: and kind of ask her, you know, some thoughts about that.

949
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 1: And we are lucky enough that you recorded some of it.

950
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I still, I mean, we still talk about it

951
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 2: teenly and I will occasionally come come through with some

952
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 2: recordings with my grandma. This one is from a few

953
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 2: years ago where I basically was just having a conversation

954
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 2: with her about why why horror? Why, and why use

955
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:17,279
Speaker 2: it as a tool of instruction for children, Like why

956
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:19,400
Speaker 2: did you raise us with horror movie?

957
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 1: Will you play that right now?

958
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 2: Please? Yes, let's listen to my grandma's input on these films.

959
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 2: Do you remember making me watch Halloween? Yeah? That was good.

960
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 2: It was not good. It was scary.

961
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 7: And I used to tell you kids, this is just

962
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:37,800
Speaker 7: a movie. You think I understood that when I fought school.

963
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:39,880
Speaker 8: I don't.

964
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 7: Can't. If I was gonna watch it, you were gonna

965
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:46,919
Speaker 7: watch it and you all would terror.

966
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:52,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, looker, you are cracking up right now saying how

967
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,240
Speaker 2: terrified we were as kids to watch horror movies.

968
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 7: My kids grew up on that Boby today he loves

969
00:47:58,960 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 7: so state.

970
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 8: Wait, you're telling me that having kids watch horror movies

971
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 8: is a great tool of parenting.

972
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 7: It certain certainly is. It'll make them think first about

973
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 7: doing a lot of things they want to do because

974
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:15,399
Speaker 7: they think of that picture. What said, Yeah, that makes

975
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:20,280
Speaker 7: you think about walking in the woods, going home by yourself, Jamma, tell.

976
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 2: You to walk in those woods.

977
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:23,800
Speaker 7: No, get the hell out of those woods.

978
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 8: I believe you think kids watch horror movies.

979
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:36,280
Speaker 2: It's a good tool of training.

980
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 7: It certainly is naked naked.

981
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:44,280
Speaker 2: Think, oh my god, God, that's wrong with you. Uh uh.

982
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 7: It's just like those those horror movies, says, show them

983
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 7: these crazy men women running. They always show women jocket

984
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:54,879
Speaker 7: by themselves in.

985
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 2: The act on past.

986
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:01,959
Speaker 7: Past, and you don't know who's standing here or there.

987
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 7: That's why so many it's a shame. It's a damn shame.

988
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 7: It's your body. Nobody should touch you, put you and

989
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 7: who you want. You understand. But right now you read

990
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 7: about in the paper some woman got raped here or there.

991
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:18,560
Speaker 1: The hell is around her.

992
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 7: Look at a horror movie. I bet you carry a

993
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 7: knife with her everywhere you go. Carry a little secret

994
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:30,760
Speaker 7: knife right there, and it's on the cut his throat.

995
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 7: It taking something that's yours. No, I'm telling you sometimes

996
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 7: to help.

997
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:38,880
Speaker 4: So.

998
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:42,920
Speaker 8: But the thing is is like women shouldn't feel that

999
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 8: they have to run with knives. We should be teaching

1000
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:48,240
Speaker 8: men that they shouldn't rape people.

1001
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 7: I don't care. That's not the world today. What you

1002
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 7: think they should do is shouldn't do That's not the

1003
00:49:55,520 --> 00:50:00,839
Speaker 7: world today. Carry a knife cut his throat. Let him

1004
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 7: think about being cut up before he even put his

1005
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 7: hands on you.

1006
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:09,719
Speaker 1: I'm not kidd grab a knife cut his throat. I mean,

1007
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:13,400
Speaker 1: it's like I that needs to be on a T

1008
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 1: shirt just general in general, but.

1009
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 2: Our first T shirt.

1010
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 1: I I love your grandma like I was raised by her.

1011
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 2: Let's just make sure that that is part of the conversation.

1012
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:33,399
Speaker 2: This is the person who raised me, and I mean

1013
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:35,879
Speaker 2: the advice she gave me regularly.

1014
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:39,320
Speaker 1: I mean, you can't ask for anything better than that, truly,

1015
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,279
Speaker 1: you truly can't. I mean it's like she's so like

1016
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:46,799
Speaker 1: I love that, she's just so emphatic about you know,

1017
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 1: her bullieves.

1018
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:52,960
Speaker 2: And and she's not wrong. She's not wrong. She raised

1019
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:55,680
Speaker 2: She wanted to raise the kind of woman who would

1020
00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:59,240
Speaker 2: take no shit and would not be fearful in this world.

1021
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:02,520
Speaker 2: And she succeeded in that. But she did it in

1022
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 2: the weirdest fucking way.

1023
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 1: Thank you, Daniel's grandma from making Danielle. But promise me

1024
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 1: you have more clips and we'll yeah that will do

1025
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 1: this every so often, and you'll have, like other grandma's

1026
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 1: nuggets of wisdom to bring horror.

1027
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:21,360
Speaker 2: Wise or not.

1028
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:22,960
Speaker 1: I just want to hear her more.

1029
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:26,239
Speaker 2: So I definitely have. I have some recordings and I

1030
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:30,160
Speaker 2: will continue to record her with her permission. But yeah,

1031
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:33,799
Speaker 2: she's she comes up with this stuff all day every day.

1032
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 2: Last week she was telling us that she wanted I

1033
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 2: was facetiming with my brother and she told us she

1034
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:41,439
Speaker 2: wanted a full sleep tattoo. So it just never ends.

1035
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:44,360
Speaker 2: It never ends, and I will catch as much of

1036
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 2: it as possible.

1037
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:49,240
Speaker 1: Maybe all try to get on your grandma's level. Email

1038
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:52,400
Speaker 1: address is I Saw What you Did pod at gmail

1039
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 1: dot com. You can also find us on Twitter and

1040
00:51:54,719 --> 00:52:00,560
Speaker 1: Instagram at I Saw pod, so that I saw PO.

1041
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:02,839
Speaker 2: And then next week we're going to well, why don't

1042
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 2: we let's give them the Let's give them the movies

1043
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:06,759
Speaker 2: and let them guess the themes. You can, you can

1044
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 2: tweet at us or Instagram or what have you, but

1045
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 2: we'll give you the movies and then you guess what

1046
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 2: the theme is.

1047
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 1: Gonna be Me Without You from two thousand and one

1048
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:18,919
Speaker 1: and Walking and Talking from nineteen ninety six.

1049
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:22,719
Speaker 2: What's our theme? What's our theme? What's our theme? Go

1050
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 2: ahead and guess, Go ahead and guess. Excellent. This has

1051
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 2: been an exactly right Production. Our producer is Lauren Elizabeth Brown.

1052
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 2: Our engineer is Katie Levine. Our social media assistant is

1053
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:43,320
Speaker 2: Taren Mazza. Our theme songs by Tom bry Fogel, artwork

1054
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:46,959
Speaker 2: by Garrett Ross. Our executive producers are Georgia Hartstark, Karen

1055
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 2: Colgareth and Danielle Kramer. You can follow us on Instagram

1056
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:53,440
Speaker 2: and Twitter at I sawpod and please listen, subscribe, or

1057
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 2: leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever

1058
00:52:56,600 --> 00:53:09,800
Speaker 2: you listen. Ming