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Speaker 1: All right, good morning, and welcome to the counters. This

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Speaker 1: will be the last Counterpoints on a Wednesday before the election.

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Speaker 2: Was going to say exactly a week from right now

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Speaker 2: as we are speaking, the election results.

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Speaker 1: Will be asleep. Hopefully.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well I doubt it. The election results will be in.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't mean we will know who the president is

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Speaker 2: because that wasn't the case last time. There were really

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Speaker 2: tight margins and it's looking very similar, if not even

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Speaker 2: closer than it was in twenty twenty.

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Speaker 1: And happy Steve Bannon released from prison today.

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Speaker 3: Wow, that's a big deal.

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Speaker 1: I used to do his podcast this morning. Yeah, he's

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Speaker 1: a free man. I have so many questions about his

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Speaker 1: time in prison. Did he wear two prison outfits the

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Speaker 1: way he wears two? For people don't know he wears

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Speaker 1: two of the button down shirts.

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Speaker 2: And for the record, Bannon going to prison because he

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Speaker 2: didn't respond to a subpoena. Right, There are other cases

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Speaker 2: against Bannon, but the one he went to prison for

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Speaker 2: is refusing to reply to a congressional subpoena over jelosty.

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Speaker 1: People don't do that, no, tons of people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's as funny as the two jumpsuits is I

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Speaker 2: guess the law firm.

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Speaker 3: Maybe not so much, but.

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Speaker 1: We're going to talk. We're going to talk about Kamala

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Speaker 1: Harris's rally, which both Emily and I were at last

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Speaker 1: night in Washington, d C. We're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: garbage gate. Did Joe Biden say that all of Donald

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Speaker 1: trumps supporters are an island or a pile of garbage

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Speaker 1: or did he just misspeak? We will, we will parse

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Speaker 1: that for you. We'll get to the bottom swing the election.

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Speaker 1: So we need to get to the bottom of this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely. Then we'll be talking about Robert F. Kennedy.

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Speaker 2: Jun You're not getting off the ballot in some swing states,

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Speaker 2: officially decided by the Supreme Court yesterday. So huge news really,

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Speaker 2: even though it could only affect a few thousand ballots,

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Speaker 2: it's still really big news.

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Speaker 1: We had Emily's friend Ryan Gerdusky booted off the the

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Speaker 1: It was great, How how it started, How it's going.

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Speaker 1: I'll be on CNN at eight pm. I have been

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Speaker 1: banned from CNN. We'll also be talking to Amir.

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Speaker 3: To be fair.

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Speaker 2: Gardesky and I aren't exactly friends, but Ryan is eluding

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Speaker 2: to a debate that we hosted with Zero Hedge Immigration

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Speaker 2: that was a Robbie Swave suave versus Ryan Gerdusky and

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Speaker 2: Jack Pisobic and the Libertarian presidential candidate.

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Speaker 3: It was just Melee.

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Speaker 1: I didn't think I could be shocked those Maga dudes

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Speaker 1: talking about what they were going to do if they

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Speaker 1: win the White House. Yeah wow, okay, ye. Interesting. Then

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Speaker 1: we're going to have Amir Tibone, who is an Israeli

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Speaker 1: journalist and author of the new book The Gates of Gaza.

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Speaker 1: He has not just an incredible story from October seventh,

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Speaker 1: he and his family lived in Nahal Oz, which is

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Speaker 1: the kibbutz that is closest to Gaza. You may have

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Speaker 1: actually heard something about his story about about a year ago,

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Speaker 1: absolutely gripping. We're going to talk to him just about

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Speaker 1: about his book and also the like unfolding genocide that's

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Speaker 1: going on in Gaza now, including some updates from northern Gaza,

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Speaker 1: as well as my interaction yesterday with Matt Miller in

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Speaker 1: the State Department press room. And then we've got Emily

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Speaker 1: interviewed Eric Schmidt, Missouri Senator.

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Speaker 3: And more importantly friends with JD.

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Speaker 2: Vance probably Jdvan's closest friend in the Senate, so had

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Speaker 2: him on undercurrents and asked him a little bit about

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Speaker 2: whether Elon Musk undercuts the drain the swamp message and

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Speaker 2: if he's worried actually, as Matt Stoler is about Trump

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Speaker 2: telling this wonderful story and how the Google CEO keeps

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Speaker 2: calling him to tell him the McDonald's.

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Speaker 3: Thing was the biggest.

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Speaker 2: Who knows whether or not that's actually true, but it

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Speaker 2: was a good conversation about the realignment some insight into

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Speaker 2: the campaign as we get closer to election day. So,

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Speaker 2: speaking of which, Ryan, should we start with the A

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Speaker 2: block here and the rally we were both at last

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Speaker 2: night on the National Mall.

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Speaker 3: The Ellipse is that.

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Speaker 1: Part put does vo up here while going right.

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Speaker 2: You're gonna want to see this, and if you're listening,

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Speaker 2: we'll describe it a little bit. But the Ellipse is

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Speaker 2: the park that's directly south of the White House and

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Speaker 2: Kamala Harris hosted a very well staged rally that ended.

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Speaker 3: Up drawing a massive, massive audience.

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Speaker 2: The sun was setting on a quite literally perfect fall

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Speaker 2: day in Washington, amazing weather, and it stretched all the

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Speaker 2: way back to the Washington Monument.

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Speaker 3: It's got sparser.

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Speaker 2: Towards the Washington monument, which is still an impressive feat

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Speaker 2: because that's just a lot of a lot of ground

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Speaker 2: to cover and to have it.

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Speaker 3: That tightly packed. RN, what did you make of the

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Speaker 3: rally last night?

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Speaker 1: And it and they had a they had a handful

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Speaker 1: of kind of regular people who would tell stories about uh,

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Speaker 1: kid who you know, needs insulin and gets it cheaper

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Speaker 1: because of Biden's uh and Congress under Biden, you know,

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Speaker 1: cracking down and making insolent cheaper and that sort of thing.

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Speaker 1: But in general, nobody else, Like there was no Joe Biden.

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Speaker 1: There were no senators, there were no members of Congress,

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Speaker 1: there were no labor leaders. So it wasn't that sense

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Speaker 1: of rolly just like, oh here's here's the vice president

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Speaker 1: and that's it.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 1: The one takeaway we were talking about before the show started,

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Speaker 1: she did her thing where she talked about how Trump

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Speaker 1: got in the way of Democrats wanting to crack down

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Speaker 1: on the border and this really tough immigration bill that

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Speaker 1: they had negotiated with Republican immigrant immigration hawks, and the

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Speaker 1: crowd is just like dead silent, like we don't want

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Speaker 1: to hear this, and then she says, and of course,

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Speaker 1: we are a nation of immigrants, and the crowd erupts

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Speaker 1: at that. So it was interesting to see that while

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Speaker 1: the Democratic elites have done a complete one to eighty

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Speaker 1: when it comes to immigration policy and the approach to

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Speaker 1: immigrants on the border, that at least this kind of

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Speaker 1: demographic of the Democratic base was like, no, no, no, we

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Speaker 1: actually meant it when we said all are welcome here,

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Speaker 1: Like we're not actually with you on this pivot that

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Speaker 1: you've done.

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Speaker 3: So Kamala Harrison the parts of the speech.

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Speaker 2: She was billing this as a kind of democracy speech,

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Speaker 2: billing it as her closing argument, and started off making

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Speaker 2: a very direct parallel to January six. She said, right

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Speaker 2: here where we're standing right now, Donald Trump, you know,

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Speaker 2: encourage her supporters to go down to the Capitol. And

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Speaker 2: then she pivoted to the meat of the speech being

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Speaker 2: way more about like you were saying, healthcare costs, childcare costs, inflation,

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Speaker 2: home prices and all of that, and brought it back

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Speaker 2: to these questions of democracy and everything at the end.

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Speaker 2: Literally as she was speaking, and we'll get to this,

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Speaker 2: but as she was speaking, Joe Biden was on CNN

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Speaker 2: like one hundred yards behind her making his like weird

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Speaker 2: garbage comment about Trump supporters, we will parse that, don't fear.

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Speaker 2: But that was happening at the same time as Kamala.

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Speaker 2: Harris had this line where she said, I have it

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Speaker 2: right here. The fact that someone disagrees with us doesn't

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Speaker 2: make them the enemy within.

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Speaker 3: So talk about stepping on the messaging.

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Speaker 1: And that was a theme of the speech that you know,

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Speaker 1: she's not gonna put her opponents in prison, She's going

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Speaker 1: to give them a seat at the table. Otherwise, standard Kamala.

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Speaker 3: She's coming in with a to do list, to do.

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Speaker 1: List on Edie's list. There's a little bit of Kamala

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Speaker 1: from last night.

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Speaker 4: We know who Donald Trump is. He is person who

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Speaker 4: stood at this very spot nearly four years ago.

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Speaker 3: And sent an armed mob to.

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Speaker 4: The United States capital to overturn the will of the

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Speaker 4: people in a free and fair election. And our democracy

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Speaker 4: doesn't it doesn't require us to agree on everything. In fact,

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Speaker 4: we like good arguments from time to time. Just think

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Speaker 4: of your own family, right, It's not the American way

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Speaker 4: to not have disagreements. We don't shy away from robust debate.

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Speaker 4: Robust debate. Effect We like a good debate, don't we

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Speaker 4: We like a good debate, and the fact that someone

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Speaker 4: disagrees with us does not make them the enemy within.

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Speaker 4: They are family, neighbors, classmates, coworkers. They are fellow Americans,

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Speaker 4: and as Americans, we rise and fall together.

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Speaker 2: So I think it's worth being very clear. And we

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Speaker 2: were talking about this a little bit earlier. Kamala Harris

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Speaker 2: being able to draw a massive crowd in Washington, d C.

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Speaker 2: On a nice day is really not a sign that

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Speaker 2: sort of we do the same thing with Trump rally

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Speaker 2: sizes too. It's not a sign that she's necessarily going

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Speaker 2: to win. That she just was able to draw a

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Speaker 2: bunch of people from the Beltway whose livelihoods are connected

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Speaker 2: to the federal bureaucracy that Donald Trump is threatening quite explicitly.

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Speaker 2: Lots of defense people, defense industry people out here. So

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Speaker 2: it's not hugely impressive as a feat. But I thought

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Speaker 2: they'd put it together very well.

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Speaker 1: Sure, well, except I don't. Oh, I guess you weren't

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Speaker 1: inside the case. Then at the end they only had

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Speaker 1: like one place to leave. Oh really, that's like they

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Speaker 1: were afraid we're going to go sack capital or something.

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Speaker 1: It took longer to get out and it was to

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Speaker 1: get in.

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Speaker 3: They knew what you were up to.

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Speaker 1: They knew, what if I'm not on arrest, you need

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Speaker 1: to let me go right.

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Speaker 2: You know, there was a pretty rowdy cohort of Palestinian

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Speaker 2: activists who were outside the gates of the rally, and

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Speaker 2: I caught on video a couple of times.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it got it.

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Speaker 2: Got tense because people were waiting in a really long

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Speaker 2: line to get into the rally, and the Polstadian protesters

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Speaker 2: did strategically a great job of setting up camp right

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Speaker 2: in the high traffic areas, and so as people are waiting,

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Speaker 2: they're shouting shame and are you okay with genocide, which

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Speaker 2: is really riling up.

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Speaker 3: The Kamala bros.

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Speaker 2: As you can imagine, who starts saying like you're pro Trump,

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Speaker 2: And you know, it was this interesting split screen of

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Speaker 2: sort of people in their like dockers and barber jackets

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Speaker 2: yelling at the Palestinian activists who had pictures of babies

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Speaker 2: that have been you know, injured, killed in the war,

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Speaker 2: and they're being yelled at by in some cases these

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Speaker 2: just like pasty white I can say that because I'm

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Speaker 2: pastry white, but these like pasty white rich.

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Speaker 3: Kids who just made them to vote for Kamala Harris,

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Speaker 3: so it got they did a really good job.

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Speaker 2: If you could actually hear them all the way back

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Speaker 2: at the Washington Monuments, like strategically. I heard that you

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Speaker 2: could even hear them inside the rally from the press pen,

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Speaker 2: so they were maybe.

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Speaker 3: Loud throughout the entire the entire rally. You could hear them.

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Speaker 2: They had bullhorns and were genuinely I think they genuinely

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Speaker 2: did what they sought to do. But it was another

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Speaker 2: great split screen because when I stood in the same

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Speaker 2: spot as I stood on January six, I was watching

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Speaker 2: and I was trying to compare what I was seeing.

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Speaker 2: The most well off crowd I've ever seen at a

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Speaker 2: rally ever. And that doesn't mean there weren't people who

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Speaker 2: flew in private jets on January six, of course there were,

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Speaker 2: but it was a much more.

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Speaker 3: Sort of hard scrabble crowd. And it was all.

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Speaker 1: With last night. It's people who live in d C.

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Speaker 1: Or suburban Maryland or suburban Virginia.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I just thought it was a similar dynamic actually though

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Speaker 2: with the Palestinian activist and you've probably seen this before,

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Speaker 2: it was like scrappy people who weren't, you know, making

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Speaker 2: these big paychecks. And getting shouted down by people who

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Speaker 2: felt entitled to have everyone vote for Kamala Harris.

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Speaker 1: I didn't see it. Yeah, where I was, I didn't

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Speaker 1: see any friction between the protesters and the I mean

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Speaker 1: I saw some people saying, like, we agree with you.

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Speaker 1: I saw that too, and I think they understood, like,

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Speaker 1: there's not They're not gonna win an argument at that

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Speaker 1: point anyway. Yeah, and they don't, and they probably actually

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Speaker 1: do agree that. What they disagree with is they're like, well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're just gonna we're just gonna swallow this and vote

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Speaker 1: for this person anyway totally.

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Speaker 3: And then they're showing up at a rally.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And so, uh, Trump was in the Lehigh

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Speaker 1: Valley last night. My dad and my brother went to

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Speaker 1: that rally actually just to check it out, just to

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Speaker 1: check it out. But Kamala has a new act kind

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Speaker 1: of targeting Trump people just making the rounds here. Let's

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Speaker 1: roll that.

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Speaker 6: Your current, honey, in the one place in America where

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Speaker 6: women still have a right to choose, you can vote

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Speaker 6: any way you want and no one will ever.

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Speaker 1: Know did you make your right choice?

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Speaker 6: Share it in, honey, Remember what happens in the booth

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Speaker 6: stays in the booth. Vote Harris Well, vote coming Good

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Speaker 6: is responsible for the contents.

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Speaker 1: Of this ad. What'd you think of that?

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Speaker 2: You know, I think it's almost insulting to women. I

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Speaker 2: see what they're doing. I think it's insulting to It's

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Speaker 2: also like a huge l on mail in balloting, because

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Speaker 2: that's a huge problem with mail in balloting is you

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Speaker 2: potentially have someone like watching over your shoulder and or

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Speaker 2: filling out the ballots for you and saying, oh, this

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Speaker 2: is a I know how you're voting, ballots filled out,

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Speaker 2: put it in the mail, don't worry about it. But

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Speaker 2: on top of it, it's just like I think a

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Speaker 2: woman can like tell her husband she's not voting for Trump.

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Speaker 2: I know that that does get tense in people's marriages.

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Speaker 2: I understand that, but like, you don't need Julia Roberts

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Speaker 2: to tell you it's okay to go against your husband.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder who that ad.

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Speaker 3: Is for suburban women right who are.

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Speaker 1: Already voting for Harrison, making them feel even better about it.

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Speaker 1: Like maybe a comparison would be the way that Obama

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Speaker 1: has been saying, if you're Muslim, how can you vote

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Speaker 1: for the guy who did the Muslim band like, I

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Speaker 1: don't think that's actually aimed at Muslim voters. It's aimed

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Speaker 1: at other people who might feel like, because of their

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Speaker 1: solidarity with the Arab or Muslim American community, that they

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Speaker 1: might not be able to vote for Kamala Harris, even

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Speaker 1: though they themselves are like, well, you know, I prefer

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Speaker 1: Kama over Trump. And it's regrettable what's going on in Gaza,

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Speaker 1: but it's not really my main issue. But then if

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Speaker 1: they feel a sense of solidarity with their friends in

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Speaker 1: the Muslim rabbit community, then they might with them. And

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Speaker 1: I think what Obama was doing with that one line

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Speaker 1: saying if you're Muslim, how can you vote with a

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Speaker 1: Muslim band guy? It gives the non Muslims then this

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Speaker 1: permission structure to say, yeah, you're right, that is crazy.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to be an ally by voting against the

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Speaker 1: Muslim band guy. So maybe this makes some suburban women

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Speaker 1: feel better. Maybe maybe works.

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: We'll see. Yeah, I don't know anything.

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Speaker 2: I mean at this point, any tiny little demo you

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Speaker 2: can pick off when you have a statistical dead heat,

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Speaker 2: essentially is if that works on a couple thousand women,

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Speaker 2: it may.

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Speaker 3: Be the difference.

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Speaker 2: So even though that seems unlikely, I guess they're throwing

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Speaker 2: everything at the wall, getting Julia Roberts out there now,

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Speaker 2: speaking of which we don't have to just go by

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Speaker 2: crowd size or advertisement messaging. Let's take a listen here

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Speaker 2: to Harry Enton, who gave a pretty interesting breakdown of

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Speaker 2: where the polls are right now on CNN yesterday.

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Speaker 7: That's all we hear about, Oh, Donald Trump's going to

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Speaker 7: out perform his polls. So I went back and checked

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Speaker 7: out whether or not a par already outran the polls

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Speaker 7: three presidential election cycles in a row in the key

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Speaker 7: battleground states.

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Speaker 1: It's never happened.

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Speaker 7: It's never happened zero times, zero times since nineteen hundred

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Speaker 7: and seventy two. So if the polls are going to

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Speaker 7: underestimate Donald Trump once again, that would be historically unprecedented. Now,

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Speaker 7: maybe you want to make the argument that Donald Trump

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Speaker 7: himself is historically unprecedented. But what normally happens is the

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Speaker 7: posters catch on, hey, we're underestimating, We're not taking into

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Speaker 7: account some part of the electorate. They make adjustments, And

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Speaker 7: I think that helps to explain why we have never

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Speaker 7: seen that the same party has been underestimated three times

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Speaker 7: in a row in presidential elections, at least over the last.

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Speaker 1: Fifty two years.

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Speaker 7: And what do we see in twenty twenty two in Michigan, Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 7: and Wisconsin. Well, it turns out that the average poll

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Speaker 7: in those states actually underestimated Democrats by four points. It

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Speaker 7: underestimated Democrats by four points. And I want to apply

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Speaker 7: that to the electoral map, because if it turns out

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Speaker 7: that the polls underestimate Donald Trump are underestimated the Democrats

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Speaker 7: excuse me, like they did in twenty twenty two, what happens, Well,

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Speaker 7: Kamala how ruins as sweet because she wins all these

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Speaker 7: great battleground states. She wins down in the Southeast, and

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Speaker 7: she wins down in the Southwest, and she gets the

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Speaker 7: three hundred and nineteen electro votes.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so that's actually some pretty interesting historical context there, Ryan,

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Speaker 2: And another thing I wanted to add is my colleague

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Speaker 2: at the Federalist, former colleague John Daniel Davidson, wrote a

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Speaker 2: piece really interesting in terms of polling. It's not a

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Speaker 2: piece about polling, but it's called the social stigma of

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Speaker 2: being a Trump supporter is Gone, which I think is

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Speaker 2: probably true.

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Speaker 3: On a national level. Maybe it's not true.

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Speaker 2: In everyone's marriage, but that actually, if we're trying to

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Speaker 2: figure out whether this polling is accurate, a lot of

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Speaker 2: that inaccuracy in the polling was attributed to the quote

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Speaker 2: shy Trump voter phenomenon. So when even you have the

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Speaker 2: Federalists saying they feel like the social stigma would be

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Speaker 2: a Trump supporter is gone, I do wonder if we

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Speaker 2: look back a week from now and see that that

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Speaker 2: affected the polling.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the Federalists would know, right, So it's true, and

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Speaker 1: I think it's true, like people are for better or

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Speaker 1: worse if they like Trump. They're more willing to say

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Speaker 1: it now than they certainly I think in yeah, say

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Speaker 1: October of twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 3: Totally. Yeah, absolutely.

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Speaker 2: Well, let's get to our next block because we have

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Speaker 2: Shelby Talcott in studio and we're going to run down

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Speaker 2: some Trump updates.

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Speaker 3: Stay tuned for them.

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Speaker 2: We're excited to be joined in studio by one of

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Speaker 2: our favorite return guests, Shelby Talcott of Semaphore Semaphore shallby

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Speaker 2: correct me on air, it's Semophour four.

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Speaker 8: I guess semaphore a lot, but I didn't come up

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Speaker 8: with the name to be clear.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well we'll blame Ben. I've heard it both ways. So, Shelby,

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Speaker 2: you are doing a lot of reporting on the Trump

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Speaker 2: campaign and the vibe check and the Trump campaign with

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Speaker 2: less than a week ago before election day.

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Speaker 3: Let's put b one up on the screen.

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Speaker 2: This is a tear sheet from Politico, just reporting a

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Speaker 2: little bit on how the fallout from the Tony Hinchcliff

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Speaker 2: joke about Puerto Rico is now quote spreading like wildfire

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Speaker 2: in Pennsylvania. Now that may seem interesting to people outside Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 2: who say, how could a joke about Puerto Ricans be

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Speaker 2: difference in Pennsylvania? But my understanding, Shelby, based on your reporting,

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Speaker 2: is that the Trump campaign recognizes, with tight margins which

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Speaker 2: we likely expect a week from now, the Puerto Rican

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Speaker 2: demographic in swing states is big enough to really perhaps

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Speaker 2: make a difference.

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Speaker 3: What are you hearing from them? Yeah, listen.

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Speaker 8: And I was surprised by how many Puerto Ricans are

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Speaker 8: in Pennsylvania. In fact, I think the number was like

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Speaker 8: half a million. But the big thing is that Donald

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Speaker 8: Trump's campaign recognizes that this is essentially a tied race,

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Speaker 8: and so anything that could swing some of these voters

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Speaker 8: either against voting for Donald Trump or even getting off

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Speaker 8: of the couch and deciding to vote for Kamala Harris

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Speaker 8: is notable. And what Kamala Harris's campaign has tried really

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Speaker 8: hard to do, and Democrats have tried really hard to

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Speaker 8: do with some success, is to tie that comedian's joke

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Speaker 8: directly to Donald Trump, because of course it was at

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Speaker 8: his rally, and that was not the only sort of

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Speaker 8: controversial hot comment of the evening. You had the anti

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Speaker 8: christ comment, you had some sort of other speakers who

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Speaker 8: made these certain remarks that a lot of people were

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Speaker 8: offended by. And so the campaign has really tried to

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Speaker 8: distance itself from this comedian's comment. And I talked to

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Speaker 8: Donald Trump's political director James Blair yesterday and I asked

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Speaker 8: him about this, and he argued that it's they're not

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Speaker 8: concerned that it's going to affect the vote, because at

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Speaker 8: the end of the day, Donald Trump himself did not

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Speaker 8: say it, and they have disavowed the comment. But it's

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Speaker 8: clearly a concern. And you can tell that because the

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Speaker 8: campaign typically doesn't even go so far as to disavow

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Speaker 8: themselves from certain things, so when they do, it's notable.

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Speaker 1: And so I as I know, as I grew up

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Speaker 1: partly in Allentown, was born there, and my dad and

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Speaker 1: brother went to the Trump rally in Allentown last night,

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Speaker 1: and I can tell you, yeah, Allentown and the entirely

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Speaker 1: High VALI are is like half Puerto Rican or more,

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Speaker 1: even from back when I was there. These are people

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Speaker 1: who have been there for a very long time. I

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Speaker 1: think the way that the comedian made the joke, he

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Speaker 1: connected it also to people Latino being here illegally. And

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Speaker 1: I won't even get into like the crew joke that

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Speaker 1: he told ahead of it, which has been going like

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Speaker 1: wildfire to that one.

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Speaker 9: It's but also so the Puerto Ricans who heard that

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Speaker 9: are like, how dare you?

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Speaker 1: We're Americans, what are you talking about?

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Speaker 9: And also they've been living here since the seventies in

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Speaker 9: the Lehigh Valley.

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Speaker 8: And I think the big thing is these jokes maybe

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Speaker 8: are fine for like a bar scenario or a comedy

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Speaker 8: club tony, but we're a week and a half out

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Speaker 8: from the presidential election and this is a political campaign.

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Speaker 8: And when I talked to people on Donald Trump's team,

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Speaker 8: They've conceded that, yeah, okay, this was a mistake. We

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Speaker 8: probably shouldn't have had not only a comedian, but an

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Speaker 8: edgy comedian at our political rally, because inevitably it's going

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Speaker 8: to get tied to Donald Trump.

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Speaker 3: Of course.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and they got a gift that they've been

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Speaker 2: going absolutely wild with just in the last like twelve hours.

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Speaker 2: We're recording this in the morning, and it happened around

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Speaker 2: nine o'clock in the evening. Actually, as Kamala Harris was speaking,

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Speaker 2: Joe Biden was on CNN and had this to say, Listen.

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Speaker 1: This is what Kama gets for not inviting him to

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Speaker 1: the rally.

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Speaker 3: Exactly.

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Speaker 5: Let's roll be two or Puerto Rico, where I'm in

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Speaker 5: my home state of Delaware. They're good, decent, honorable people.

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Speaker 5: The only garbage I see float down there is his

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Speaker 5: supporters is his demonizational scene is unconstable.

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Speaker 2: So this is a wild, right, wild frenzy because the

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Speaker 2: Biden campaign is now doing cleanup and saying that Joe

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Speaker 2: Biden said supporters with an apostrophe on the end of it,

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Speaker 2: meaning the garbage was Trump supporter's possessive.

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Speaker 8: Garbinization, referring to the comedian like the singular.

441
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 2: Right, that it's possessive that it's like this is there,

442
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,720
Speaker 2: it belongs to them, not that they themselves are garbage,

443
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,680
Speaker 2: which is what the Trump campaign understandably because when you're

444
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,439
Speaker 2: listening to it, he said exactly, that is what he said,

445
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,439
Speaker 2: although media outlets have run with the Biden version of

446
00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,600
Speaker 2: it and have actually like tried to explain why in

447
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,040
Speaker 2: wass don't these are gymnastics. I don't think would be

448
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:05,439
Speaker 2: happening if the parties were reversed there. But Shelby, just

449
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 2: take us through a little bit and everyone here can

450
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,280
Speaker 2: watch it. If you're watching this, we're gonna put B

451
00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:12,359
Speaker 2: two A. Let's put this up on the screen. This

452
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:17,960
Speaker 2: is jd Vance's response. This started happening immediately. He started

453
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,480
Speaker 2: criticizing the media for media for cleaning up this is

454
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 2: a Jonathan Lamuir story and in Politico and jd Vance

455
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:31,760
Speaker 2: criticized them almost immediately on X last night for writing

456
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 2: in a way that he felt was doing cleanup for

457
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 2: the Biden campaign. And then he posted this one another morning.

458
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 2: Her son who died of a fentyl overdose is not garbage.

459
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 2: A truck driver who can't afford rising diesel prices is

460
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,679
Speaker 2: not garbage. A father who wants to afford groceries is

461
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,840
Speaker 2: not garbage. And we have one Trump tweet to put up.

462
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 2: I guess a Trump truth. Maybe it was a tweet. Okay,

463
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,200
Speaker 2: he posted this on x as well.

464
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:56,360
Speaker 1: Well, that's how you know he's feeling really good.

465
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,640
Speaker 3: He's going to well, I'm running a campaign.

466
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 2: I'm running a campaign of positive solutions to save America.

467
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,119
Speaker 2: Kamala Harris is running a campaign of hate, etcetera, etcetera.

468
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,640
Speaker 2: Not on top of everything, Joe Biden calls our supporters garbage.

469
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 2: Don't you can't lead America if you don't love the

470
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,480
Speaker 2: American people, Shelby, that tone is one.

471
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:17,600
Speaker 3: I watched the entire rally. You were actually there.

472
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:19,679
Speaker 2: I watched the whole thing from start to finish, and

473
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,959
Speaker 2: I wasn't on Twitter while I was watching it, so

474
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:24,879
Speaker 2: I wasn't sort of seeing the real time feedback. That

475
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,240
Speaker 2: was the messaging that Trump just put in that tweet.

476
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 2: Somewhat amusingly, they were going for at the rally unity love,

477
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 2: the party of peace, the candidate of peace. So they

478
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 2: feel like they've gotten a real, like last minute gift

479
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 2: here that actually could be they believe more effective than

480
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 2: the deplorable moment was for Republicans.

481
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 3: Is that what you're hearing.

482
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 8: Yeah, last night, actually when I was texting people on

483
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,119
Speaker 8: Donald Trump's campaign, they kept comparing it to that Hillary

484
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 8: Clinton deplorable's moment, And listen, this is a really big

485
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 8: gift for the Donald Trump campaign. Simply whether it ends

486
00:23:57,880 --> 00:23:59,640
Speaker 8: up influencing votes or not, who knows.

487
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:01,880
Speaker 1: We're so close to the actual election day.

488
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 3: But what it does is.

489
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 8: It shifts the storyline from a pretty positive news cycle

490
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 8: from Kamala Harris in the with the comedian situation, and

491
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 8: so now everybody is focused on Joe Biden calling his

492
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 8: calling Donald Trump supporters garbage. And again you can debate

493
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:22,159
Speaker 8: on what he meant. I think it's a little bit

494
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 8: of spin from the White House. You can hear it

495
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,120
Speaker 8: when when you listen. But yeah, this is a really

496
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,680
Speaker 8: big gift, and they're not going to let this go.

497
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 8: I think you can expect to see it in last

498
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 8: minute adds, in last minute you know, posts on social media.

499
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 8: We're seeing it all over. They're not gonna they're not

500
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:38,639
Speaker 8: going to die down on this.

501
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 1: My own theory on it is that he was I

502
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 1: think he was trying to say the only thing that's

503
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 1: garbage is his supporters demonization of the American people. Because

504
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 1: he then goes into the demonization. It seems like he's reading,

505
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 1: but it's not. It's a lot of what it's politics.

506
00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter what he meant to say.

507
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,879
Speaker 3: And well, this is also who's the genius.

508
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,919
Speaker 9: Who's the genius that's writing like a complicated script for

509
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 9: this guy?

510
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 1: He can't.

511
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 8: This is the problem with having Joe Biden on the

512
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 8: campaign trail. That's exactly why Kamala Harris has kept her

513
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 8: distance from having Joe Biden on the campaign trail because

514
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 8: they don't believe he helps her.

515
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:17,200
Speaker 3: And we've seen that time and time again.

516
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, this seems like something that the Trim campaign rightfully

517
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 2: understands will help turn out, Like this is what gets

518
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 2: your base to not stay home? Is Joe Biden calling

519
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 2: your supporters of garbage literally at the moment that Kamala

520
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 2: Harris is saying, nobody is the enemy within Yeah, et cetera.

521
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 2: Let's roll this clip of John Stewart responding to the

522
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 2: Tony Hinchcliff joke. This is B three and John Stewart

523
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 2: had a surprising take actually on what happened.

524
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:49,439
Speaker 10: Now obviously in retrospect, having a roast comedian come to

525
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,360
Speaker 10: a political rally a week before election day and roasting

526
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 10: a key voting demographic. Probably not the best decision by

527
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 10: the campaign politically, but to be fair, the guys really

528
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,479
Speaker 10: just doing what he does. I mean, here he is

529
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 10: at the Tom Brady roast a few months ago.

530
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: The great Jeff Ross.

531
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 11: Ladies and gentlemen, Jeff is so Jewish he only watches

532
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 11: football for.

533
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: The coin toss. Gronk, you look like.

534
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 11: The Nazi that kept burning himself on the ovens. Kevin

535
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,920
Speaker 11: is so small that when his ancestors picked cotton they

536
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 11: called it deadlifting.

537
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 10: Yes, yes, of course, terrible boo. Yes, there's something wrong

538
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 10: with me. I find that guy very funny. So I'm sorry,

539
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 10: I don't know what to tell you. I mean, bringing

540
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 10: him to a rally and have him not do roast jokes.

541
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 10: I had to be like bringing Beyonce to a rally and.

542
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 2: Oh, okay, that was pretty good.

543
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 3: Shelby to a point.

544
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:52,719
Speaker 2: We were having actually before we went to air, as

545
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:54,399
Speaker 2: we were chatting getting the mics on.

546
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 3: Those are funny jokes.

547
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,679
Speaker 2: The Trump campaign seems to now be realizing they were

548
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 2: funny jokes for a comedy set, and maybe as Trump

549
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 2: is throwing together this genuinely I think interesting coalition of

550
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 2: people at Madison Square Garden doctor Phil. He had everyone

551
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 2: from doctor Phil to like hedge fund guys and Ilon

552
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 2: Pogan was there.

553
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 3: It was a little bit of the RNC again.

554
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 2: But it's interesting because the Trump campaign is kind of

555
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 2: operating on the fly. It's just a totally different world.

556
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 2: So do you sense that this was you said this earlier,

557
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 2: but maybe they realized that it kind of These things

558
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 2: can be funny, but that doesn't mean that they're political

559
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 2: campaign funny.

560
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,439
Speaker 8: I think they've realized that there's a time and a place,

561
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 8: and you know, nine however, nine ten days out from

562
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,880
Speaker 8: a presidential election where the polls are essentially tied and

563
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,120
Speaker 8: the both sides are going at each other pretty aggressively,

564
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 8: already not the place to bring in a super edgy

565
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 8: comedian who makes racially insensitive jokes.

566
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 1: Although if it ends up that Biden garbage comment, then

567
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:05,120
Speaker 1: it's like the hand of God.

568
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 8: Yeah, but cancels each other out or maybe the Biden

569
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 8: thing becoming a bigger deal, because I do think again,

570
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 8: you look back at twenty sixteen, the Hillary Clinton deplorable's

571
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 8: comment that ended up being a huge deal at least.

572
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,880
Speaker 1: The difference with Hillary is like she meant it, and

573
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: she said exactly what she meant, whereas you know, what

574
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 1: Biden said is in contrast and in conflict with what

575
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 1: their whole messaging is.

576
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 8: But Biden's criticized Trump supporters in the well, so you

577
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 8: dous sort of line up with like past things he says,

578
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 8: whether he meant.

579
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 9: Do you remember some of the worst stuff he said,

580
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 9: some blunt stuff he gave that.

581
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 3: Big speech in Philadelphia.

582
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 2: Remember it was the dark branded speech with the red

583
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 2: lights behind him outside Independence Hall. Yeah, I mean, I

584
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 2: think this actually speaks to something that Harris Biden camp

585
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 2: is struggling with.

586
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 3: And I saw it at the Rattle last night.

587
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 2: It was like they can't side whether they think that

588
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 2: Trump supporters are fascists or that they're just you.

589
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 1: Know, deserve a seat at the table and they're part

590
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: of our family exactly.

591
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is a.

592
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 8: Fine line, and I don't know how you can do

593
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 8: it successfully and clearly this and the problem shows that

594
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 8: they're they've struggled to do.

595
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: They're probably also legitimately ambivalent on the question, but they're

596
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 1: not quite sure. Actually, yeah, they would stick a knife

597
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: in them.

598
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 2: So Donald Trump then in Allentown in front of Ryan's family,

599
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 2: started talking about how Democrats have quote already started cheating.

600
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 3: Let's rule this last clip here.

601
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 10: If you have a mail in ballot, get that damn

602
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 10: ballot in pleaze immediately because.

603
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 12: Because they've already started cheating.

604
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 1: In Lancaster, they've cheated. We caught it with two thousand

605
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 1: and six hundred. So Shelby, you've you've seen him so

606
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: many times now is he just doing Trump impressions?

607
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 5: Now?

608
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 1: It feels like he's just doing his own.

609
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 3: Impression the mail in ballot.

610
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,719
Speaker 1: Ionators, and he's like, that's even better, like it?

611
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 8: Yeah, Well, the thing when you when you go to

612
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 8: a lot of these Trump rallies, a lot of them

613
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 8: are similar. This is, you know, not a new speech.

614
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 8: This specific allegation of courses is newer. But in general

615
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 8: he talks a lot about the twenty twenty election. He

616
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 8: talks a lot about uh, you know, he has a

617
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 8: lot of claims.

618
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: Must be so happy to have new cheating and new

619
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: election ringing to talk about.

620
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 8: Well, it's interesting too, because when I talked to James Blair,

621
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 8: Trump's political director, I asked him one of the questions

622
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 8: I asked him towards the end of the interview was

623
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 8: what if in eight days from now, Kamala Haris wins, Like,

624
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 8: what would the big thing be and what's your biggest concern?

625
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 8: And on the biggest concern part, he started pointing to

626
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 8: Pennsylvania and talking about exactly what Donald Trump was talking

627
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 8: about last night, and so that was really interesting.

628
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 3: And then I sort of asked a follow up.

629
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 8: I said, you know, are you saying that if Kamala

630
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 8: Harris wins, it's going to be because of voter interference?

631
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 8: And he said, I'm not saying that. That's not what

632
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 8: I'm saying. I'm just saying that in the days leading

633
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 8: up to the election, we want a free and fair election.

634
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 8: We want the rules to be followed and then let

635
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 8: the chips fall where they may.

636
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 3: See.

637
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 2: This is so interesting because let's bring it full circle.

638
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 2: It's like the Tony Hinchcliff set in that you don't

639
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 2: it's the double edged short of Donald Trump. You do

640
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 2: not get the benefits politically of trump Ism without this

641
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 2: part of trump Ism. Meaning they can script a great

642
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 2: Madison Square Garden rally and speech for Donald Trump, but

643
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 2: because it's Donald Trump, they're still going to have the

644
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 2: free wheeling and they're going to have the comedians and

645
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 2: the entertainers and the whole cogans like. They can script

646
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 2: it as well as they want, but if it's if

647
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 2: it's fundamentally Trump, if it's fundamentally Trumpy, it's still also

648
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 2: going to have this. You can script something for Donald Trump,

649
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 2: He's still going to talk about what he wants to

650
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 2: talk about, and that's going to take you where it does.

651
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 8: His campaign has learned for a long time now to

652
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 8: that they could do whatever they want and they can

653
00:31:57,920 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 8: sort of guide Donald Trump. But at the end of

654
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 8: the day, Donald Trump runs the campaign and part of

655
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 8: their job is reacting to what Donald Trump may or

656
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 8: may not say. And when I've been out on the

657
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 8: campaign trail over the past year and a half, that's

658
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 8: a big reason that some of these undecided voters are

659
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 8: not so sure about Donald Trump because they don't love

660
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 8: when he goes off script. And so that's been something

661
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 8: that the campaign has tried to sort of figure out,

662
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 8: how do we get around that, how do we realize

663
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 8: Donald Trump is going to be Donald Trump. Some people

664
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 8: are going to love it, some people are going to

665
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 8: be put off by it. How do we get some

666
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 8: of those voters who are put off by it to

667
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 8: still vote for him because they're, for example, more worried

668
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 8: about the economy and jobs.

669
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 1: So what's the mood among kind of the Trump brass

670
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 1: now October thirtieth, twenty twenty four. How are they feeling,

671
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: How do they feel about the early vote, How do

672
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: they feel about the polls and heading into election day?

673
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 8: The phrase I've heard used most often is cautiously optimistic.

674
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 8: But it's really interesting because at the same time, I

675
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 8: would say there's an equal amount of skepticism. Because for

676
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 8: Donald Trump's campaign aids who have been here before, who

677
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 8: have worked with him in twenty twenty and twenty sixteen,

678
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 8: they've never been in this position where the polls are

679
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 8: looking this good, and so they're almost like freaking out

680
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 8: a little bit because they're like, what are we missing?

681
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 8: They're going over the data, they're going over their internals,

682
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 8: they're exactly they're they're just like, they're suspicious.

683
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 3: Essentially, you seem this good.

684
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 8: Yeah, Well, so this confidence is matched with an equal

685
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 8: amount of skepticism, and I thought, I think that's really notable.

686
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 1: But also they're.

687
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 3: Feeling good about the early vote.

688
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 8: Of course, there's a lot of you know, nuances with

689
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 8: the early vote, and we're not really going to know

690
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 8: where things fall until after the election. But they're they're

691
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 8: really happy with the early vote, particularly because, of course,

692
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 8: for years Donald Trump told his voters don't early vote,

693
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 8: and so they're feeling really good that they have the

694
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 8: numbers that they have in some of these states. They're

695
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 8: feeling good about the tide race. I think their internals

696
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 8: are showing that Donald Trump is a little bit more

697
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 8: ahead than the external numbers. But yeah, cautiously optimistic is

698
00:33:58,640 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 8: the phrase I hear most often.

699
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 1: Can you stick around for a minute to talk Michigan Wisconsin? Sure?

700
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: All right, then let's put c one up on the

701
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 1: screen here. So our RFK RFK Junior tried tried to

702
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 1: this kind of hail Mary attempt to the Supreme Court

703
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: to try to get off the ballots in Michigan and Wisconsin.

704
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 1: And because of the timing of him dropping out and

705
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 1: endorsing President foreign President Trump, that meant that in some

706
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:25,720
Speaker 1: states he can't get his name off the ballot.

707
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 3: Uh.

708
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: You have to be pretty clueless at this point to

709
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 1: not know that RFK has dropped out. So how much

710
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:36,839
Speaker 1: do you think that this could affect Michigan and Wisconsin,

711
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 1: because I can see it a couple of different ways,

712
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 1: And I'm curious what the campaign thinks if you've if

713
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 1: you've heard from them on this. On the one hand,

714
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 1: I think rf K Junior will get a decent number

715
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 1: of votes, like in the thousands, maybe even the tens

716
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 1: of thousands in these states. But then the question is what

717
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 1: would those people have done if his name was not

718
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,320
Speaker 1: on the ballot. They might have just written in Weed,

719
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 1: or they might Bryan Graham, they might have voted for

720
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 1: another third party or just left it blank. So people

721
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 1: kind of automatically think, oh, well, he endorsed Trump, and

722
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: they have voted for RFK Junior on their ballots. That

723
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 1: means if he wasn't there, they would have automatically voted

724
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: for Trump, And I think that's a leap that you

725
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,359
Speaker 1: can't make. But I'm curious how obviously they care because

726
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 1: they went to the Supreme Court. So how big of

727
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: a handicap is this for Trump Michigan and Wisconsin.

728
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 8: I mean, I think it's an open question. Right, As

729
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 8: you said, they clearly care because they tried to get

730
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 8: his name removed but I remember months ago when Kennedy

731
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 8: first got into the race, there was real debate over

732
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,399
Speaker 8: who he would hurt more. Donald Trump's campaign at one

733
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 8: point had internal data that they would that he would

734
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 8: hurt them more. And so I think that's important. And

735
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 8: now as people heard from Kennedy Moore, I think, you know,

736
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 8: some of these he garnered more Republicans and Democrats. But

737
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 8: I think there are a small number of people who

738
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 8: might vote for Donald Trump or might stay home who

739
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,919
Speaker 8: we're backing Kennedy, And so any vote, I think any

740
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 8: number in this presidential election when it's so close, if

741
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 8: the public pulling is to be believed, can influence it.

742
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,359
Speaker 8: And so I do think that Donald Trump's campaign is

743
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 8: somewhat concerned about it doesn't help them, and I do

744
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 8: expect that we'll probably see Kennedy out urging those voters

745
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:24,320
Speaker 8: in those states to vote for Donald Trump in the

746
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:24,879
Speaker 8: next few days.

747
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:26,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. And you know, in politics, I think the biggest

748
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 2: bias that you have, especially in media, is just working

749
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 2: in media, and you are so disconnected from the mind

750
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 2: of the average voter, who has a million different things

751
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 2: going on, may genuinely start tuning into the election. I

752
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:38,399
Speaker 2: mean We've been covering this every single day for over

753
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 2: a year, but may genuinely start tuning into the election

754
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 2: the day before they vote and looking like google Donald

755
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,280
Speaker 2: Trump versus Kamala Harris, immigration numbers, healthcare, all of those things, inflation,

756
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 2: and are like looking at the charts and whatever. But

757
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 2: there are also people who go in there aren't happy

758
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 2: with the candidates are voting for. Maybe they're going to

759
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 2: vote for Tammy Baldwin Wisconsin, and they see Robert F.

760
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 2: Kennedy Junior's names on the ballot, and they like Robert F.

761
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 2: Kennedy Junior, and they don't like Donald Trump Kamala Harris.

762
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 7: Robert F.

763
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 2: Kennedy Junior was campaigning pretty hard against Donald Trump just

764
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:11,760
Speaker 2: about a year and a half ago. That stuff does happen.

765
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 2: People really aren't happy with these two candidates. That's what

766
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 2: he was originally campaigning on, in fact, So that stuff

767
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 2: can make a big difference. When we looked to twenty

768
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 2: sixteen when the margin in Michigan, do you remember exactly

769
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,399
Speaker 2: how many votes it was? It was such a tin

770
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 2: thousand issues, so so small, So obviously it can make

771
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,240
Speaker 2: a significant difference. Now, Shelby, another thing I'm curious about.

772
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 2: Let's first roll this next thot. This is Robert F.

773
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 2: Kennedy Junior talking about what he's been promised in a

774
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 2: Trump administration.

775
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 13: The key that I think, you know, the President Trump

776
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 13: has promised me is is control of the public health agencies,

777
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 13: which are HHS and as sub agencies, CDC, FDA and

778
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:58,240
Speaker 13: IH and a few others, and then also the USDA,

779
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:03,720
Speaker 13: which is which you know, is key to making America

780
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 13: healthy because we've got to get off of seed oils.

781
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:09,280
Speaker 3: Shelby.

782
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 2: This is something I actually asked Senator Eric Schmid, who's

783
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 2: a very good friend of Jade Vance on Undercurrents recently,

784
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 2: what it's been like to marry the RFK Junior camp

785
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 2: to the MAGA camp, bringing MAHA and MAGA together make

786
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 2: America healthy.

787
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 3: So how are these two very disparate groups?

788
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 2: I mean, when I went to the Rescue of the

789
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 2: Republic rally to report on it a few weeks ago,

790
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 2: I literally saw barefoot hippies and MAGA evangelicals together like

791
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 2: backslapping and having fun. But internally on the campaign side,

792
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 2: how's everybody getting along in both of these like pretty

793
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 2: different universes coming together.

794
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,360
Speaker 8: I know that there are people on Donald Trump's campaign,

795
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 8: who are huge fans of Kennedy, And to the point

796
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 8: where I've heard, you know, he just talked about positions

797
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 8: that Donald Trump has promised him. Whether or not he

798
00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 8: would get confirmed is an open question. You have American

799
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 8: Collins on a help committee. They're not going to vote

800
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 8: to get Kennedy into any conformable position. But I've heard

801
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:11,879
Speaker 8: that Trump's campaign believes that it is worth the fight,

802
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 8: and so if he were to win, I wouldn't be

803
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 8: surprised if there is a fight and a debate over

804
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:21,280
Speaker 8: Kennedy being in a conformable position. But what's also notable

805
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 8: is the Maha thing. As you noted, Donald Trump really

806
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 8: never mentioned that before Kennedy got on board. But they've

807
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 8: really embraced Kennedy's sort of obsession with public health and

808
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:37,319
Speaker 8: with the obesity crisis and with childhood chronic illnesses. And

809
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 8: that's what the campaign has added in the last few

810
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 8: months upon bringing Kennedy on board, and they're really letting

811
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 8: Kennedy sort of run that aspect of their campaign.

812
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 3: From my understanding, that's really interesting.

813
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 1: Actually, Yeah, from my perspective of heightening attention on all

814
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: of those chronic problems is a wonderful thing. His solutions

815
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: sometimes like kind of coming out. I'm not so sure

816
00:39:58,080 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: about that.

817
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 3: Well, well, I think it's interesting about it.

818
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 1: It's like attention on it.

819
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 2: Just the idea of the like we all know Republican

820
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 2: campaign operatives and we know Republican campaign consultants like really

821
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 2: blue Blazer crowd. That changed a little bit when Trump

822
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 2: got into the picture, but not entirely. And so to

823
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 2: even have them to the point you just made like

824
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 2: genuinely outsourcing some outreach to Robert F. Kennedy Junior and

825
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:28,720
Speaker 2: his motley band of hyder docks interesting eccentrics. That's actually

826
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 2: a pretty crazy dynamic, I would imagine.

827
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, And I think it just goes to show a

828
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:37,479
Speaker 8: how close this presidential race is. But be how the

829
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 8: thinking inside Trump world has really changed. You have Tulca

830
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 8: Gabbart also that they brought in, so you do have

831
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:45,240
Speaker 8: some of these folks that you know, in twenty sixteen

832
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 8: it would have been it's still eyebrow raising, but in

833
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 8: twenty sixteen it would have probably been unheard of. I

834
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 8: can't imagine that have happening and have being happened in

835
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,360
Speaker 8: twenty sixteen, and now you're seeing it with Tulca Gabbard,

836
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,080
Speaker 8: you're seeing with RFK Junior, You're seeing all of the

837
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 8: sort of folks that never would have been involved in

838
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,240
Speaker 8: a Trump campaign are now involved in a Trump campaign,

839
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:07,919
Speaker 8: and they're not only involved, but there really are being

840
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 8: embraced by Donald Trump's folks and his longtime aids.

841
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 1: While we've got you and we've mentioned Michigan, I'm curious

842
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:21,319
Speaker 1: how the campaign is interacting with the kind of Arab

843
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 1: American and Muslim American vote that you had a rally recently,

844
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: you know, where they had a decent number of Muslim speakers.

845
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:31,839
Speaker 1: Many American group has endorsed at Trump administration. This pack

846
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 1: pack which is hilariously named Pakistani American Political Action Committee,

847
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 1: they endorsed Trump. Uh, I'm curious, like from internally, how

848
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 1: do they how do they think about this kind of

849
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: unexpected support that they're getting from that community and do

850
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 1: they actually talk about what they would do when it

851
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 1: comes to the approximate cause of this support, which is

852
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 1: the genocide and Gaza. Do they talk ever? Do you

853
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 1: ever hear like, oh, if we win, we actually have

854
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:03,759
Speaker 1: to do something about this question? And like what would

855
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,760
Speaker 1: they do or is it more like, we'll think about

856
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:07,240
Speaker 1: that later.

857
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 8: I think it's more And to be clear, this is

858
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 8: not like my key focus, so I don't always ask

859
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:15,320
Speaker 8: about this. But when I do talk to the Trump

860
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 8: campaign about the issues they are most focused on. This

861
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 8: is not necessarily in the top three or four, because

862
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 8: they look at what the majority of voters are worried about,

863
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 8: and so what you hear them talking about publicly a

864
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 8: lot is oftentimes what they're talking about privately, which is

865
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 8: the economy, which is the borderslation exactly. But they're seeing

866
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 8: this as a gift. Again, They'll take whatever voters they

867
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:38,399
Speaker 8: can get. And so if all of these people are

868
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 8: really frustrated at Kamala Harris for her non action or

869
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 8: non comments and are willing to give Donald Trump a chance,

870
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 8: they're totally fine with that.

871
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 3: Now whether or not.

872
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:51,359
Speaker 8: If Donald Trump wins, that ends up with some sort

873
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:55,720
Speaker 8: of serious new legislation that they will like, I'm not totally.

874
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 1: Convinced, but it or does it even blunt? Like So meanwhile,

875
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: like over a drops yesterday, we just reported on this

876
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,399
Speaker 1: thing Project Esther that the Heritage Foundation is putting out,

877
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 1: which is basically saying we're going to try to round

878
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 1: up and deport anybody who's like on a student visa

879
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 1: or on any kind of visa and is protesting on

880
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 1: behalf of Palestinian rights, and otherwise do a kind of massive,

881
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 1: kind of legal and political campaign to dismantle any criticism

882
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 1: of Israel.

883
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 2: So if they can connect it to like what's called

884
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 2: by like we know how these designations work, Like, yeah,

885
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 2: these dubious sort of sometimes dubious, sometimes serious connections to terrorism.

886
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 1: Right, so there'll be this pressure from that wing of

887
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 1: the kind of right. But does the fact that he's

888
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 1: up on stage with a bunch of Muslims change that

889
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:43,840
Speaker 1: at all or no?

890
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,239
Speaker 2: My understanding is that this outrage campaign is being led

891
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 2: by Tiffany Trump's father in law. Right, So these are

892
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:50,879
Speaker 2: literal family ties.

893
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, they're families.

894
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 1: He's Lebanese, is that right? Yeah?

895
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,239
Speaker 8: Whether it makes a difference, I don't know, Right, I

896
00:43:57,239 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 8: don't know if any To be clear, I don't know

897
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:00,880
Speaker 8: if anything at this point race is going to make

898
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 8: a significant difference. I think the vast majority of voters

899
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 8: have already made up their minds. And for what it's worth,

900
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 8: when Donald Trump's campaign is talking about some of those

901
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 8: persuadable voters this late in the race. You know again,

902
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,760
Speaker 8: James Blurry yesterday told me that what they're mostly focused

903
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 8: on is a group of younger under fifty, mostly white,

904
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 8: but still like a quarter of them are minorities, men,

905
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 8: and so that's the group that they're viewing as the

906
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 8: most persuadable for their campaign. So it's not necessarily Muslims,

907
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:40,240
Speaker 8: it's not necessarily women. It is men under fifty, mostly white,

908
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 8: but a solid number of them are black and Hispanic

909
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 8: as well, and so that's where they see those persuadable

910
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 8: voters a week out of the presidential race.

911
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 3: Well, Shelby, if you couldn't tell, we find your reporting

912
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 3: very valuable that we kept going.

913
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 2: I'll ben that so I keep my job, shall we, Talga,

914
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 2: thank you so much for stopping by and giving us

915
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 2: some of your time on this very very busy week.

916
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 3: Anytime, all right, we'll be back with more soon.

917
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 1: Mega pundit Ryan or Dusky has gotten himself booted from

918
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 1: c n N. Let's take a look at why and

919
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:14,360
Speaker 1: then we'll talk about where this came from. If you

920
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 1: don't want to be cooled Nazis, stop doing.

921
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 7: More than table and people know by me, I never

922
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 7: called you.

923
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not saying her saying.

924
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:26,759
Speaker 3: I'm of the Pubestinians. I'm used to it.

925
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 1: Well, I hope your beaper doesn't go off. The thing

926
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 1: is is that.

927
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 3: You should not know. You just said I should be

928
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:34,319
Speaker 3: kill No.

929
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 1: I did not say, let me talk about TV said.

930
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 3: Let me let me just.

931
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:45,800
Speaker 14: Guys?

932
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:49,760
Speaker 3: Are you.

933
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:53,359
Speaker 14: Ryan?

934
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 3: That is completely apologies.

935
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:57,360
Speaker 13: The first blow.

936
00:45:57,680 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 5: The Muslim guys should be blown up.

937
00:45:58,960 --> 00:45:59,879
Speaker 1: I apologize on TV.

938
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 14: Don't say, don't say then I apologize you literally, I thought.

939
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 3: You didn't think said.

940
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:11,360
Speaker 12: Because what's funny is rudy he said, said you're a

941
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 12: great guest to be here.

942
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 3: Nine ones today, and so.

943
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 15: This is where we're in there, this is America.

944
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 12: Forget the racism.

945
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 1: That's which I should die saying that.

946
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:27,399
Speaker 3: He said, what does bea mean? Don't give me? Why

947
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:27,839
Speaker 3: did you say?

948
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 1: What did you mean by the beepa?

949
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:31,719
Speaker 3: What did you mean?

950
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 5: You didn't?

951
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 12: You said, PA doesn't know at least have the guns

952
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 12: to support your racist from.

953
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 15: This is why, this is why yesterday's rally was discussed.

954
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 12: Don't call us Nazis, but I'm gonna threaten the brown

955
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:46,919
Speaker 12: guys terrorist and kill.

956
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:50,240
Speaker 15: Him because I didn't ever say Donald Trump was hitler,

957
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 15: But do you know who sat on a stage, stood

958
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:55,359
Speaker 15: on a stage yesterday and said, I want to come

959
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:57,719
Speaker 15: to the Nazi rally. I don't have to make up

960
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 15: words and call you something. You're saying it for youself

961
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 15: and what you just said apologize, but I will tell

962
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 15: you I don't accept that apology. And you didn't even

963
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 15: say it's fine. That was disgusting. But I can be

964
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:09,799
Speaker 15: offended when you don't even stay it to me. I'm

965
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 15: not Puerto Rican, but I was offended by what he

966
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 15: said yesterday, and I'm offended that the former president and

967
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 15: potentially future president would allow it and go for twelve

968
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:20,880
Speaker 15: hours and not say I don't care because you know what,

969
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:23,880
Speaker 15: when Kala Harris put out statements about switching up opinions,

970
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 15: it wasn't good enough.

971
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,279
Speaker 3: For republic because you said it. So that don't get

972
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 3: me to watch CNN. I'll be honest, tryan that was.

973
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 1: I'm a cluster.

974
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was the.

975
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:38,759
Speaker 2: Reality television version of political news that we've gone so

976
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:42,800
Speaker 2: far astray from but can be entertaining at the very least.

977
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 1: So then he they came back after the break without

978
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 1: him there anymore. Let's go back to Abby Philip.

979
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:51,839
Speaker 14: We're back here, and before we get started, I want

980
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 14: to just address what happened in the last segment. First,

981
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 14: I want to apologize to Medi Hassan for what was

982
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 14: said at this table. It was completely unaccepteople when we

983
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 14: get this discussion started, you'll see that Ryan is not

984
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 14: at the table. There is a line that was crossed

985
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 14: there and it's not acceptable to me. It's not acceptable

986
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 14: to us at this network. We want discussion, We want

987
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 14: people who disagree with each other to talk to each other.

988
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:19,760
Speaker 14: But when you cross the line of a complete lack

989
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:22,879
Speaker 14: of civility, that is not going to happen here on

990
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:26,399
Speaker 14: this show. It's a heated time. We're in the middle

991
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 14: of a political season. We are eight days from a

992
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:32,360
Speaker 14: presidential election. But we can have conversations about what is

993
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:36,840
Speaker 14: happening in this country without resorting to the lowest of

994
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 14: the lowest kind of discourse. I want to address that,

995
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 14: and I want to apologize to the viewers at home,

996
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 14: because we want to be able to hear each other.

997
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 14: We want to be able to talk to each other,

998
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:50,320
Speaker 14: and we plan to do that in this next segment.

999
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 1: And you know what, maybe this is a side note

1000
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 1: but one point here, this is not a new dig.

1001
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 1: So several weeks ago and The National Review ran a

1002
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:08,839
Speaker 1: political cartoon that had Rashida Talib with a pager kind

1003
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:10,279
Speaker 1: of blown up on her deskh.

1004
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 3: We talked about it at the time.

1005
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:13,759
Speaker 1: And we talked about at the time, and the way

1006
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 1: that CNN handled that was actually, instead of condemning that cartoon,

1007
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:24,720
Speaker 1: they picked up on what Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessl

1008
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 1: said about the political cartoon, which was that she said,

1009
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 1: just like Rashida Talib should not be attacked over her religion,

1010
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 1: she should not accuse me of charging pro Palestinian protesters

1011
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 1: simply because I'm Jewish. She just completely fabricated and manufactured

1012
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:47,400
Speaker 1: something like that Rashida Tleeb had never said, and used

1013
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:49,879
Speaker 1: that political cartoon as a way to kind of wedge

1014
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:53,440
Speaker 1: her own grievance against Rashida Talib. And then CNN for

1015
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 1: days just covered Dana Nessil's charge and.

1016
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:58,399
Speaker 2: Then kind of didn't Dana bash come out and then

1017
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 2: kind of make a semi care action that wasn't a

1018
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 2: full yeah, because.

1019
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:04,359
Speaker 1: They had to eventually really say, actually, Rashida Tlive never

1020
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 1: said that, right, But and they kept saying, well, we

1021
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 1: reached out to Rashida to leave for clarifications, a clarification

1022
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:13,359
Speaker 1: what shouldn't say that anyway? So it's interesting then see

1023
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:15,239
Speaker 1: it on CNN's own air.

1024
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it is interesting because like we

1025
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:22,439
Speaker 2: moderated a debate with Ryan for Zero had a couple

1026
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 2: of months ago.

1027
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 1: It was on immigration, and that guy was unhinged.

1028
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:28,920
Speaker 2: It turned out similarly to that, he's had some moments

1029
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:31,800
Speaker 2: on CNN recently and they kept bringing him back because

1030
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:34,919
Speaker 2: he is super super maga, ultra maga as they say

1031
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:38,239
Speaker 2: in the streets, and he is like totally tries to

1032
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:41,840
Speaker 2: constantly be flipping the script and going full on offense

1033
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:46,320
Speaker 2: no matter what, which CNN obviously thinks makes for engaging television.

1034
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 2: So even though he's ultra maga, to keep bringing him

1035
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:50,800
Speaker 2: back and bringing him back, And in this case, I

1036
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 2: don't think there's any way he thought Meddi said that

1037
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,279
Speaker 2: he was pro Hamas. The idea that Meddi would go

1038
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 2: on TV.

1039
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 1: That they did the page your attack on it's point.

1040
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 2: The idea that Maddie would come on TV and just

1041
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:05,960
Speaker 2: be like, listen, I'm pro Hamas on a CNN panel,

1042
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:09,880
Speaker 2: nobody actually thought that. But what's interesting is Ryan apologized

1043
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 2: on air, probably because he wants to.

1044
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:15,840
Speaker 3: He wanted to keep going back on CNN, so.

1045
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 2: He apologized on air, said that he thought he was

1046
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:20,879
Speaker 2: pro Hamas, when actually what he means is that when

1047
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 2: he says he's pro Palestinian, Ryan believes that means you're

1048
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 2: pro Hamas, which is what the National Review cartoonist believes.

1049
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 2: That's like, you can make that argument. I don't agree

1050
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 2: with categorically making that argument, but a lot of people

1051
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:37,440
Speaker 2: on the right actually do, and that's where that comes from.

1052
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 1: The apology. The apology was pretty pitiful, but also I

1053
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 1: thought kind of instructive because you did watch him kind

1054
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:49,839
Speaker 1: of start to grovel like on set, as if like

1055
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 1: he knew he was in trouble. He realized, oh, the

1056
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 1: thing I just said is not actually defensible and I

1057
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 1: can't and he's like this this is actually going to

1058
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 1: have conquences for me. Yeah, oh yeah, But the graveling

1059
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 1: apology was not gonna be the way to do it.

1060
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 2: It reminds me of like, you know, you're about to

1061
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:09,840
Speaker 2: get called to the principal's office and they're going to

1062
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:10,840
Speaker 2: call your parents and you're.

1063
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 3: Like, no, no, that's not I didn't mean it like that.

1064
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:14,879
Speaker 3: That was me. It was me sarcastic.

1065
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 1: Really, it really did feel like that. So yeah, I

1066
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:22,439
Speaker 1: don't know if we'll be seeing him on CNN's hair.

1067
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 2: No, I think he was totally banned that that said,

1068
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 2: for me, the reason that is, I mean is the

1069
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:31,440
Speaker 2: joke is dumb, and then the the outrage is so

1070
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 2: insufferable too, And it's just like everyone not from me,

1071
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 2: I mean, I understand it was made directly to Meddi,

1072
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 2: but from Abbey Phillip, who then also posted a very

1073
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:41,759
Speaker 2: self serious Instagram video about it. It's like, just get

1074
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:43,440
Speaker 2: over it, like, let's let's move on.

1075
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:46,320
Speaker 1: It was a joke, right for seeing it. For Maddy fine,

1076
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:49,239
Speaker 1: like it was directed to you, is that you get

1077
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 1: to take offense. But yes, CNN you invited this guy

1078
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 1: on what they were doing because he does this kind

1079
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 1: of thing. Yes, you're upset that he went a little

1080
00:52:57,160 --> 00:52:58,320
Speaker 1: bit over the line because.

1081
00:52:58,040 --> 00:52:59,840
Speaker 3: It made you look bad, not because you went on.

1082
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:02,439
Speaker 1: The one drawing is weird lines where like this other

1083
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:05,480
Speaker 1: insane stuff that he's saying is okay, but this insane

1084
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 1: thing is not is not okay.

1085
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:09,360
Speaker 3: You either want the clash of ideas or you don't.

1086
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 2: And you either want people to like, actually, like that's

1087
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 2: the thing. You want people to actually be revealing what

1088
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:20,400
Speaker 2: they really think. And there Ryan revealed what he really thought,

1089
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:22,719
Speaker 2: and I get CNN needing to say, we have to

1090
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:24,719
Speaker 2: assert some boundaries.

1091
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:27,240
Speaker 3: Whatever. They can do that if they want a business.

1092
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:30,879
Speaker 2: On the other hand, it's just the I just find

1093
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 2: the moral sanctimony from them afterwards to be a little insufferable.

1094
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 1: I don't know if you saw this thread, but a

1095
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 1: former Rising producer had an interesting thread. Did you see

1096
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 1: this one? I did see this one for people who

1097
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 1: missed it. He was making the point that it's difficult

1098
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 1: to book non crazy right wing people.

1099
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:54,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know which.

1100
00:53:54,600 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 9: Is which is not entirely untrue because like so many

1101
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 9: people who are on the right and are like hardcore

1102
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 9: supporters of Trump also either in the past or currently

1103
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 9: have like Richard Spencer associations, which doesn't which I think

1104
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:16,080
Speaker 9: Ryan Gardusky does. I didn't look into that or and

1105
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:19,879
Speaker 9: or have said other things where you're like, oh, that's

1106
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:22,759
Speaker 9: like beyond the pale. It's hard to find like since

1107
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:25,880
Speaker 9: we have moved the pale so far, it's hard to

1108
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:28,319
Speaker 9: find people who are representative of that pale, but not

1109
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:31,880
Speaker 9: beyond what we consider to be beyond it. So't you

1110
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:32,960
Speaker 9: didn't like that bread or what?

1111
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 2: But yeah, I thought the tho it was kind of bullshit, honestly,

1112
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 2: because I mean, there are plenty of times where it

1113
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:42,080
Speaker 2: would have been hard to book someone who didn't think

1114
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 2: Donald Trump was a full blown Russian asset who was, but.

1115
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 1: They don't, they don't care about that. Well, that's what

1116
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:48,920
Speaker 1: I'm said within the pale.

1117
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:50,879
Speaker 3: But that's what I'm saying, like or who thought that?

1118
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 3: You know?

1119
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:53,280
Speaker 2: I mean, I could go into all kinds of different

1120
00:54:53,320 --> 00:55:00,760
Speaker 2: issues I'm thinking particularly of like.

1121
00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:01,240
Speaker 1: I'm accepting, I'm basically accepting see, and it's premise.

1122
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:03,879
Speaker 2: Right, which the threat is not the threat is saying

1123
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 2: that it's there's a specific and unique problem on the right,

1124
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 2: which I don't disagree. I mean, I don't disagree that

1125
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 2: there are problems on obviously of booking people who are

1126
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 2: willing to defend both.

1127
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:15,640
Speaker 3: Political parties, because I think we.

1128
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:19,360
Speaker 2: Agree that both political parties have some incredibly deep and

1129
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 2: serious problems. But to act as though it's unique to

1130
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 2: the right, I disagree with that. I think it's I

1131
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:28,760
Speaker 2: think it's problem like across the board, I just don't accept.

1132
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:31,120
Speaker 2: I mean, I think Trump is his own thing. But

1133
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 2: if anything, I think a lot of the sort of

1134
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:37,799
Speaker 2: professional pundits on the right are like not even representative

1135
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 2: of the right. So it does mean that there's room

1136
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:42,400
Speaker 2: for more crazy people than to come in and go

1137
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 2: through the gates and be like, well, I'm representative of

1138
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 2: a real voter because I'm pro Trump, when you know

1139
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:50,240
Speaker 2: that's a lot of Republican voters are not super hardcore

1140
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:52,799
Speaker 2: mega They just kind of tolerate Trump, whereas a lot

1141
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:56,239
Speaker 2: of the punditry absolutely detests Trump and is you know,

1142
00:55:56,400 --> 00:56:00,080
Speaker 2: pro Pentagon with every breath they have, and is pro J. P.

1143
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:02,640
Speaker 2: Morgan with every breath they have. So it just to me,

1144
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 2: it just doesn't reflect what I see.

1145
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:08,239
Speaker 1: But what I guess the way to put it would

1146
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:10,520
Speaker 1: be that over the last like fifteen twenty years, as

1147
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:14,800
Speaker 1: you've had the kind of the Great Awokening and the

1148
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:20,840
Speaker 1: rise of identity politics and a focus on equity as

1149
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 1: kind of a shared narrative that CNNMSNBC, The Times, the

1150
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:32,000
Speaker 1: kind of establishment pricess said, look, we're turning the page

1151
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:35,839
Speaker 1: on the Jim Crow era. We're moving into an era

1152
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:39,840
Speaker 1: of equity and people who are not willing to be

1153
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:43,239
Speaker 1: on board for that. Those are outside the boundaries. You

1154
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:45,359
Speaker 1: can say whatever you want about Russia or whatever else

1155
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 1: that's within that's within healthy civil debate, but outside of

1156
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:52,080
Speaker 1: civil debate as any you know, it became eventually if

1157
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:55,440
Speaker 1: you were opposed to marriage equality, like a lot that

1158
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:57,640
Speaker 1: would almost be kind of now it looks like they're

1159
00:56:57,680 --> 00:56:59,960
Speaker 1: kind of pushing, like letting those people back in a little,

1160
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:04,880
Speaker 1: but they were drawing that boundary. And within the Trump

1161
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:08,160
Speaker 1: world a lot more, you know, lots of his kind

1162
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:14,239
Speaker 1: of high level, high profile supporters would be outside the

1163
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 1: bounds of that reasonable what they just what they just

1164
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 1: what they considered to be civil discourse.

1165
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:21,400
Speaker 2: Well, and if you're not going to let Tom Cotton

1166
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 2: publish an essay in the pages of the New York Times,

1167
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:27,760
Speaker 2: then you're either going to be left with insane people

1168
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:30,640
Speaker 2: or people who don't represent actual Republican voters.

1169
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:32,680
Speaker 1: So Tom Cotton example is a good one. Yeah.

1170
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:34,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I just like don't have a lot of

1171
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 2: sympathy for that worldview because it just to me is

1172
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:39,600
Speaker 2: there's so many problems with it.

1173
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 1: But I mean that you're Druski is out there and

1174
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 1: CNN was just asking for it.

1175
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:47,840
Speaker 2: The magic component of the like if you're a genuine,

1176
00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 2: true believer in Donald Trump, I think that does legitimately

1177
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:54,080
Speaker 2: present certain problems if you like accept some of the

1178
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:58,280
Speaker 2: twenty twenty election stuff in a way that's not you know,

1179
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:01,720
Speaker 2: like how jd Vance talks about the tech interference and

1180
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:04,440
Speaker 2: the Zuckerberg interference in an election. If you take that

1181
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 2: like almost defensive of Trump platform being Sidney Powell and

1182
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:10,800
Speaker 2: Himmember else Rudy at the time, I think that does

1183
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:13,760
Speaker 2: present legitimate problems in the same way I think there

1184
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:17,600
Speaker 2: are legitimate problems for people who fully defend Russia.

1185
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 1: Gate and all that stuff.

1186
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:19,880
Speaker 3: So anyway, those are my thoughts.

1187
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:22,960
Speaker 1: All right, Well up next Amir to Bone, author of

1188
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 1: the new book, The Gates of Gaza. Stick around for that.

1189
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:28,720
Speaker 1: Joining us now from Israel is journal how Retz journalist

1190
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 1: Amir Tabone, author of the new book, and we can

1191
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:36,000
Speaker 1: put up e two here, The Gates of Gaza, which

1192
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:40,280
Speaker 1: is part memoir, part history of Israel, part history of

1193
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:47,000
Speaker 1: Israel Palestine. Terrific book. Amir, thank you so much for

1194
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:49,200
Speaker 1: joining us, really appreciate it.

1195
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:50,760
Speaker 5: Thank you for having me.

1196
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:55,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and just to set the context for people. I

1197
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 1: don't know if if you even remember this, it was

1198
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 1: so long ago. If we can put up E four here,

1199
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:05,200
Speaker 1: This is an old magazine that I co founded called

1200
00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:11,040
Speaker 1: huff Post Highline U. Amir wrote this, this really great

1201
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 1: profile of the relationship between Benjamin Netanyahu and Barack Obama

1202
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:20,880
Speaker 1: and how it really collapsed in acrimony over the course

1203
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:23,800
Speaker 1: of his of his presidency. And if you squint there

1204
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:27,120
Speaker 1: you can see contributed reporting by Ryan grimm Uh.

1205
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:30,720
Speaker 9: Indeed, yeah, so Amir and I worked on that, on

1206
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:36,880
Speaker 9: that story together, and a few few collaborations afterwards. I

1207
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:38,960
Speaker 9: always followed your your work from Israel.

1208
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 1: Amir is one of the best sourced reporters kind of

1209
00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:46,480
Speaker 1: in the political space over there. And I still remember

1210
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:53,400
Speaker 1: waking up on Saturday, October seventh, and because we are

1211
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:57,240
Speaker 1: but I guess six hours or so, you know, I

1212
00:59:57,320 --> 01:00:01,640
Speaker 1: had so much had unfolded while while we slept in

1213
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 1: the United States. One of the first things that I

1214
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:08,640
Speaker 1: saw on social media was that you and your family,

1215
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 1: you know, had been trapped in this safe house, in

1216
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:16,160
Speaker 1: not safehouse, safe room in nahl Oz, which is the

1217
01:00:16,240 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 1: kibbutz which is closest to the border of Gaza and

1218
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:25,040
Speaker 1: I can only imagine how many times you've you've told

1219
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 1: this story by this point a year later, and the

1220
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:30,920
Speaker 1: book is heavily you know, weaves this story through. But

1221
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:34,280
Speaker 1: for viewers who are unfamiliar with it, can you just

1222
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 1: tell them what is what is nahal Os? And you

1223
01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:41,720
Speaker 1: know what briefly, what was like? What was October seventh like?

1224
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:44,000
Speaker 1: And people should really read the book and get the

1225
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:46,880
Speaker 1: full story, but I wanted people to have the context

1226
01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:47,680
Speaker 1: for this conversation.

1227
01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:53,600
Speaker 5: Well, thanks for the opportunity to discuss it. And as

1228
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:56,439
Speaker 5: much as it's not easy to talk about it again

1229
01:00:56,480 --> 01:00:59,280
Speaker 5: and again, I also feel it's an obligation I have.

1230
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:03,840
Speaker 5: So Nahalos is a small Israeli community. You can think

1231
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 5: of it as a village or a very small town,

1232
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:11,800
Speaker 5: located within the internationally recognized borders of Israel, right across

1233
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:14,440
Speaker 5: the border from the Gaza Strict. It's home to about

1234
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:19,280
Speaker 5: four hundred and fifty people, including my family, me, my wife,

1235
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:22,280
Speaker 5: and our two young daughters. We have a four year

1236
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:26,160
Speaker 5: old and a two year old. And this community was

1237
01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:29,120
Speaker 5: attacked by Hamas on October seven, as part of that

1238
01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:34,160
Speaker 5: widespread Haramas invasion into Israel. On that Saturday morning, within

1239
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:38,160
Speaker 5: our community. Out of four hundred and fifty people, fifteen

1240
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:41,760
Speaker 5: were murdered on that day. That would be three and

1241
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:44,880
Speaker 5: a half percent of the total population. So try to

1242
01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 5: think of a small town, a village, or a neighborhood

1243
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:49,920
Speaker 5: in the US losing three and a half percent of

1244
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:55,080
Speaker 5: the population in one day. That's basically what happened in Ahalos.

1245
01:01:56,040 --> 01:02:00,280
Speaker 5: Seven people were kidnapped from the Kibuts and out of them,

1246
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:04,960
Speaker 5: five were released alive in late November, after more than

1247
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:09,800
Speaker 5: fifty days held by Flamas thanks to the hostage deal

1248
01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:13,520
Speaker 5: orchestrated at the time by President Biden. There are still

1249
01:02:13,560 --> 01:02:17,720
Speaker 5: two hostages from our community, fathers of young children friends

1250
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:20,920
Speaker 5: of mine, mariem Iran and Sachidan, who are in the

1251
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:24,800
Speaker 5: hands of Hamas. And my family survived that day, and

1252
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:27,480
Speaker 5: I tell in the book the story of how and

1253
01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:32,360
Speaker 5: what happened, and how we were forced to remain in

1254
01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:36,240
Speaker 5: this little room in complete darkness, no electricity, no food,

1255
01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:39,200
Speaker 5: with the two girls at the time three and a

1256
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:42,800
Speaker 5: half and two years old, for the entire day, basically

1257
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:45,440
Speaker 5: and to keep them quiet so that the terrorists who

1258
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:48,000
Speaker 5: were firing in our living room will not hear us.

1259
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:52,000
Speaker 5: Quite a story, and like you said, Ryan, what I

1260
01:02:52,120 --> 01:02:54,200
Speaker 5: tried to do in the book is to tell that story,

1261
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:59,320
Speaker 5: but also the history that preceded it, and in my analysis,

1262
01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:02,840
Speaker 5: led to the history of the conflict between Israel and

1263
01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:06,440
Speaker 5: the Palestinians and the relationships across the two sides of

1264
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:08,000
Speaker 5: the Israel Gaza border.

1265
01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:10,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I have the book open in front of

1266
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:12,720
Speaker 3: me right now. It's really gripping.

1267
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 2: There are a lot of people who purport to speak

1268
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:18,960
Speaker 2: for the victims on October seventh, people who.

1269
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:20,960
Speaker 3: Lived through the horrors that you live through.

1270
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:25,000
Speaker 2: How different and even just the people who've been rescued

1271
01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:27,520
Speaker 2: as hostages for example, as you mentioned, you're in touch

1272
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:30,120
Speaker 2: with people. In fact, you are one of the survivors

1273
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:33,920
Speaker 2: of October seventh. How different do you feel the conversation

1274
01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:37,680
Speaker 2: has been among people who survived that day versus sort

1275
01:03:37,720 --> 01:03:39,040
Speaker 2: of the broader media discourse.

1276
01:03:41,120 --> 01:03:43,800
Speaker 5: And that's such a smart question. And I think that

1277
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:47,680
Speaker 5: anybody who has lived through an event will often feel

1278
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:50,640
Speaker 5: that the media coverage of the event is a bit weird.

1279
01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:53,600
Speaker 5: And I've been hearing that for years as a journalist

1280
01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:57,520
Speaker 5: writing about many different things. I've also covered wars in

1281
01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:02,200
Speaker 5: Ukraine and Syria and the Court region and This is

1282
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:05,720
Speaker 5: not necessarily a criticism, but a comment that I've heard

1283
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:08,440
Speaker 5: from people over the years that when you are actually

1284
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:11,720
Speaker 5: part of a story, the weight portraying the media, even

1285
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:15,800
Speaker 5: if it's the greatest reporting and the most professional and

1286
01:04:15,960 --> 01:04:21,840
Speaker 5: accurate description, it sometimes feels just a little off. And

1287
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:24,520
Speaker 5: I think that when I talk to my neighbors, my

1288
01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:28,840
Speaker 5: friends who survived this attack, or when I talk to

1289
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:32,760
Speaker 5: friends who lost their loved ones on that day, who

1290
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:36,200
Speaker 5: had people from their family kidnapped into Gaza, there's just

1291
01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:39,640
Speaker 5: some kind of an understanding between the people who went

1292
01:04:39,800 --> 01:04:43,600
Speaker 5: through this that it's very, very hard to summarize in

1293
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:48,360
Speaker 5: articles or television segments. And I felt like the book

1294
01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:52,520
Speaker 5: was my attempt to also bring that story in more words.

1295
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:55,440
Speaker 5: It's not a very long book, but still, you know,

1296
01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:58,880
Speaker 5: it offers more space than a regular newspaper article to

1297
01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:04,000
Speaker 5: describe the events, the emotions, and also the aftermath and

1298
01:05:04,200 --> 01:05:06,720
Speaker 5: the scars that had lived on all the people who

1299
01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:07,640
Speaker 5: were the things.

1300
01:05:09,080 --> 01:05:15,400
Speaker 1: And so another thing that struck me about October seventh

1301
01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:21,520
Speaker 1: and the Victims was the way that so you can

1302
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:24,200
Speaker 1: explain more of the kind of political details around the

1303
01:05:24,280 --> 01:05:26,840
Speaker 1: political kind of texture around this, but a lot of

1304
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:29,960
Speaker 1: the people in your community and the and a lot

1305
01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:33,200
Speaker 1: of the other kidbut seem in the surrounding area are

1306
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:36,960
Speaker 1: kind of left wing, liberal leaning people who are supportive

1307
01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:41,400
Speaker 1: of Palestinian rights, of Palestinian dignity, opposed to in general

1308
01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:44,400
Speaker 1: the occupation and would like to see a two state solution,

1309
01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:48,200
Speaker 1: both sides living side by side. Some of them are

1310
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:53,800
Speaker 1: were active in, you know, in activism within Gaza, like

1311
01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:56,720
Speaker 1: taking patient you know, because if you're in Gaza and

1312
01:05:56,840 --> 01:06:00,400
Speaker 1: you have a life threatening illness or health compliction, you

1313
01:06:00,480 --> 01:06:04,040
Speaker 1: need the permission you know, of Israel authorities to travel

1314
01:06:04,080 --> 01:06:06,440
Speaker 1: outside of it. And so some would like would go

1315
01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:09,560
Speaker 1: in and help bring people out. Some of those people

1316
01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:12,920
Speaker 1: ended up being either taken hostage or victims of this.

1317
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:16,720
Speaker 1: And so it's not as if somebody who has right

1318
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:20,960
Speaker 1: wing like terrible politics deserves to you know, be killed

1319
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:24,680
Speaker 1: as a civilian or taken hostage. But there's something extra

1320
01:06:24,960 --> 01:06:29,960
Speaker 1: kind of poignant about people who are you know, kind

1321
01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:34,040
Speaker 1: of sympathetic to the pal steating cause being and who

1322
01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:37,920
Speaker 1: are deeply hostile to net Yahoo government being the victims

1323
01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:41,120
Speaker 1: of of net Nyah whose failure down in the South.

1324
01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:42,840
Speaker 1: And then I was as I was thinking that through

1325
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:47,920
Speaker 1: and I'm curious for your answer to this, why do

1326
01:06:48,040 --> 01:06:51,000
Speaker 1: those types of people live there in the first place,

1327
01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:56,440
Speaker 1: like so close to this kind of constant reminder of

1328
01:06:56,840 --> 01:07:00,400
Speaker 1: the horrifying reality of the occupation and this and this siege,

1329
01:07:00,560 --> 01:07:02,080
Speaker 1: Like how did that happen?

1330
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:07,120
Speaker 5: Yeah? I know this is one of the complexities of

1331
01:07:07,320 --> 01:07:11,760
Speaker 5: Israeli politics and society and how it is wildly different

1332
01:07:12,040 --> 01:07:14,320
Speaker 5: in many ways than the politics and the culture of

1333
01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:19,040
Speaker 5: the United States. And just to give perhaps a name

1334
01:07:19,120 --> 01:07:21,600
Speaker 5: and a face to this discussion before I get into

1335
01:07:21,680 --> 01:07:23,920
Speaker 5: the politics of it, you can think as an example

1336
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:28,160
Speaker 5: of vv and Silver, very famous peace activist from baire

1337
01:07:28,600 --> 01:07:31,560
Speaker 5: He Botes, fifteen minutes from natal Oz, you know, not

1338
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:34,360
Speaker 5: from my home. And she was one of the founders

1339
01:07:34,440 --> 01:07:38,760
Speaker 5: of an organization called Women Wage Peace, which was fighting

1340
01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:43,280
Speaker 5: against the occupation in favor better relations between Israel and

1341
01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:47,440
Speaker 5: the Palestinians and of attempting to help bring about peace

1342
01:07:47,720 --> 01:07:51,520
Speaker 5: in the region. And she was murdered on October seven, Bifamas,

1343
01:07:52,120 --> 01:07:56,280
Speaker 5: women who devoted her life really to promoting peace between

1344
01:07:56,360 --> 01:08:00,000
Speaker 5: Israels and Palestinians, and eventually was murdered by these terrises

1345
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:05,080
Speaker 5: in her house in Kiboard's Dailey Now, if you know,

1346
01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:07,640
Speaker 5: we take her as an example, you can ask Ran, well,

1347
01:08:07,640 --> 01:08:10,959
Speaker 5: why would a person who has devoted their life really

1348
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:13,600
Speaker 5: to the purpose of peace decide to live in this

1349
01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:18,120
Speaker 5: border community that, to many Israelis is a signal of

1350
01:08:18,280 --> 01:08:21,320
Speaker 5: the need for security and protecting the border from the

1351
01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:26,320
Speaker 5: enemies on the other side. But you know, a way

1352
01:08:26,400 --> 01:08:29,120
Speaker 5: that is unique to this conflict and to the geography

1353
01:08:29,200 --> 01:08:31,880
Speaker 5: of this land, The two things to an Israeli would

1354
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:35,800
Speaker 5: actually really make sense because communities like national o's, like

1355
01:08:35,960 --> 01:08:39,839
Speaker 5: the re like a keybots Nils, which was also attacked

1356
01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:42,680
Speaker 5: on that day and had the highest number of casualties

1357
01:08:42,880 --> 01:08:46,320
Speaker 5: people were murdered or kidnapped. These were communities that were

1358
01:08:46,840 --> 01:08:49,799
Speaker 5: built on the Israeli side of the border, not within

1359
01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:54,880
Speaker 5: the Gather Strip, not on disputed land that Israel took

1360
01:08:54,920 --> 01:08:59,240
Speaker 5: after the Sixth Day War. And these are not communities

1361
01:08:59,320 --> 01:09:03,400
Speaker 5: that were built out of some desire to, you know,

1362
01:09:03,680 --> 01:09:07,639
Speaker 5: basically strip the Palestinians off their rights, but actually out

1363
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:10,519
Speaker 5: of the belief that Israel needs to have a border

1364
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:13,519
Speaker 5: and that on the other side of that border you

1365
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:17,200
Speaker 5: can have an independent Palestinian state that we can have

1366
01:09:17,360 --> 01:09:20,000
Speaker 5: peaceful relations with, just like the US has a border

1367
01:09:20,040 --> 01:09:23,839
Speaker 5: with Canada, and France today has a border with Germany,

1368
01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:27,280
Speaker 5: although that's a very very relaxed border. Maybe one day

1369
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:30,000
Speaker 5: the very Palestinian border will be the same and we

1370
01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:33,360
Speaker 5: won't even need a passport to move between the countries.

1371
01:09:33,479 --> 01:09:36,679
Speaker 5: I don't foresee that very soon and be an ambition

1372
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:39,400
Speaker 5: for the future, and so for the people living there,

1373
01:09:39,439 --> 01:09:44,360
Speaker 5: it actually made sense. This ideological zionist really that's the

1374
01:09:44,439 --> 01:09:48,160
Speaker 5: word to use, belief in the importance of strong, secure

1375
01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:50,920
Speaker 5: borders for the state of Israel. And at the same time,

1376
01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:54,960
Speaker 5: I believe in the necessity of peace and dignity and

1377
01:09:55,080 --> 01:09:57,519
Speaker 5: the good life for the people on the other side,

1378
01:09:57,600 --> 01:10:00,919
Speaker 5: because without that we are doomed to come instant cycles

1379
01:10:00,920 --> 01:10:01,240
Speaker 5: of war.

1380
01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:04,280
Speaker 1: And you talked you talk in the book about the

1381
01:10:04,360 --> 01:10:08,200
Speaker 1: decision to move down there from Tel Aviv in twenty fourteen,

1382
01:10:08,320 --> 01:10:11,120
Speaker 1: and just around the time as we're doing the reporting

1383
01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:15,479
Speaker 1: for that piece, and you talk about how there was

1384
01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:21,200
Speaker 1: this several month long invasion war in twenty fourteen, and

1385
01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:28,000
Speaker 1: a laws was evacuated during that because it's under constant shelling,

1386
01:10:28,479 --> 01:10:34,120
Speaker 1: and as people thought that the war was approaching a ceasefire,

1387
01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:37,160
Speaker 1: people had been away for so long that they were

1388
01:10:37,200 --> 01:10:42,400
Speaker 1: impatient to return. One family came back early a shell,

1389
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:46,240
Speaker 1: landed in no laws, exploded, went through trapped and went

1390
01:10:46,280 --> 01:10:49,360
Speaker 1: through a window and killed, I believe, a four year

1391
01:10:49,400 --> 01:10:55,600
Speaker 1: old child who became the face of the kind of

1392
01:10:56,439 --> 01:11:01,559
Speaker 1: the tragedy of that war across across Israel and led

1393
01:11:01,600 --> 01:11:05,560
Speaker 1: to then a number of families leaving that community. And

1394
01:11:05,640 --> 01:11:08,160
Speaker 1: then later you just you know, later that year, you

1395
01:11:08,200 --> 01:11:11,639
Speaker 1: decide you're gonna you're gonna move in. And what struck

1396
01:11:11,760 --> 01:11:13,760
Speaker 1: me and probably you too as you were writing this,

1397
01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:19,640
Speaker 1: I'm curious, was that this is that this was a

1398
01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:24,000
Speaker 1: horrifying tragedy that captivated the attention of the entire country

1399
01:11:25,479 --> 01:11:30,639
Speaker 1: while dozens of children were killed yesterday in Gaza kind

1400
01:11:30,680 --> 01:11:36,559
Speaker 1: of namelessly, not namelessly to the families of those in Gaza.

1401
01:11:37,560 --> 01:11:40,000
Speaker 1: But we're not leading the press coverage with them here

1402
01:11:40,040 --> 01:11:42,439
Speaker 1: in the United States. This is one we can tell, Yeah,

1403
01:11:42,439 --> 01:11:48,479
Speaker 1: we're not it's not it's not international attention. Uh, And

1404
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:53,679
Speaker 1: we're approaching probably in Gaza a similar percentage. You talked

1405
01:11:53,680 --> 01:11:57,080
Speaker 1: about three and a half percent of the community being killed.

1406
01:11:57,880 --> 01:12:01,360
Speaker 1: The death rate in Gaza may maybe that at this

1407
01:12:01,479 --> 01:12:06,360
Speaker 1: point of the two million people we were talking before

1408
01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:11,640
Speaker 1: you join here about how because this is still going on,

1409
01:12:12,120 --> 01:12:14,240
Speaker 1: nobody has really had a chance to kind of process

1410
01:12:14,840 --> 01:12:16,960
Speaker 1: what has happened because we're still living through it. So

1411
01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:21,080
Speaker 1: how do you square in your mind the horrific tragedies

1412
01:12:22,160 --> 01:12:25,599
Speaker 1: that you've lived through and that you've witnessed and square

1413
01:12:25,680 --> 01:12:28,880
Speaker 1: them with the kind of exponentially greater scale just a

1414
01:12:29,000 --> 01:12:29,559
Speaker 1: mile away.

1415
01:12:32,040 --> 01:12:36,639
Speaker 5: So I'll divide this into three levels. Perhaps First of all,

1416
01:12:36,720 --> 01:12:41,160
Speaker 5: there is the emotional left and putting aside the politics

1417
01:12:41,720 --> 01:12:46,360
Speaker 5: and the justifications that Israel had for the war. And

1418
01:12:46,479 --> 01:12:48,920
Speaker 5: to be frank, I supported the war in the beginning

1419
01:12:49,000 --> 01:12:51,840
Speaker 5: after October seven because I really felt Israel had no

1420
01:12:52,040 --> 01:12:56,479
Speaker 5: choice but to retaliate militarily, very strongly to what Ramas did.

1421
01:12:56,680 --> 01:12:58,920
Speaker 5: But I'll get to that in a second. On the

1422
01:12:59,040 --> 01:13:07,599
Speaker 5: emotional level, it's terrible, it's horrendous, it's an immense tragedy.

1423
01:13:08,240 --> 01:13:11,640
Speaker 5: It's heartbreaking, and you know, I can go on and

1424
01:13:11,760 --> 01:13:16,240
Speaker 5: on with the words, but you know, the pictures themselves,

1425
01:13:16,280 --> 01:13:19,400
Speaker 5: I think speak longer than anything. And by the way,

1426
01:13:19,479 --> 01:13:24,280
Speaker 5: I've visited many times since October seven, we don't live

1427
01:13:24,360 --> 01:13:27,000
Speaker 5: there at the moment. The keyboats cannot really be inhabited

1428
01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:31,280
Speaker 5: by families with children. But whenever I go there, I

1429
01:13:31,439 --> 01:13:34,280
Speaker 5: see the destruction on the other side Becausehalo is so

1430
01:13:34,439 --> 01:13:36,479
Speaker 5: close to Gaza that you can really see with your

1431
01:13:36,520 --> 01:13:39,280
Speaker 5: eyes the destruction on the other side of the border.

1432
01:13:40,400 --> 01:13:42,599
Speaker 5: And you know, I'm not happy about it. I don't

1433
01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:47,520
Speaker 5: find anything to celebrate about it. I think it's heartbreaking,

1434
01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:50,680
Speaker 5: and I understand also that it will have repercussions for

1435
01:13:50,760 --> 01:13:54,560
Speaker 5: the future because now the Gaza strip is home to

1436
01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:57,760
Speaker 5: more than two million people who are living among this

1437
01:13:58,560 --> 01:14:03,960
Speaker 5: epic destruction. On the logical level, I do understand that

1438
01:14:04,040 --> 01:14:06,840
Speaker 5: after October seven, Israel had to go to war against

1439
01:14:06,920 --> 01:14:10,360
Speaker 5: Tamas because what Ramas did on that day, you know,

1440
01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:17,599
Speaker 5: massacre of civilians, a breach the border, and the kidnaping

1441
01:14:17,680 --> 01:14:20,400
Speaker 5: of more than two hundred people, that was not something

1442
01:14:20,560 --> 01:14:22,960
Speaker 5: Israel could just say, well, okay, it happened, and now

1443
01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:26,479
Speaker 5: we're moving on, you know, fresh page. We can debate

1444
01:14:26,720 --> 01:14:29,720
Speaker 5: whether the war should now continue or not. I'm on

1445
01:14:29,840 --> 01:14:32,400
Speaker 5: the camp that says the most urgent thing to do

1446
01:14:32,520 --> 01:14:34,880
Speaker 5: right now is a deal to end the war and

1447
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:37,719
Speaker 5: release the hostages. And I've been writing this for months, actually,

1448
01:14:38,080 --> 01:14:41,200
Speaker 5: I've been writing this for months in Haharet and I've

1449
01:14:41,240 --> 01:14:44,639
Speaker 5: been speaking about it in other platforms. I really think

1450
01:14:44,840 --> 01:14:50,639
Speaker 5: the urgency ending killing and the suffering, and bringing back

1451
01:14:50,720 --> 01:14:53,840
Speaker 5: our hostages to Israel and allowing the beginning of a

1452
01:14:54,439 --> 01:14:59,640
Speaker 5: process to rebuild, reconstruct, you know, fix the damages on

1453
01:14:59,680 --> 01:15:04,000
Speaker 5: both the border is really really urgent. That's the best

1454
01:15:04,040 --> 01:15:06,519
Speaker 5: I can say about it. And then I think on

1455
01:15:06,640 --> 01:15:11,200
Speaker 5: the third level, this is the geopolitical level, I think

1456
01:15:11,240 --> 01:15:14,479
Speaker 5: we need a plan to rise from this disaster, because

1457
01:15:14,520 --> 01:15:18,400
Speaker 5: if we spend now all of our time debating who

1458
01:15:18,479 --> 01:15:22,800
Speaker 5: had it worse and who committed bigger crimes, there are

1459
01:15:22,840 --> 01:15:27,320
Speaker 5: no winners in that debate, and it doesn't really lead

1460
01:15:27,439 --> 01:15:29,880
Speaker 5: us to a place where people in Gaza and in

1461
01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:37,240
Speaker 5: Israel can get over this disastrous, horrendous, ongoing event. What

1462
01:15:37,400 --> 01:15:39,240
Speaker 5: we really need is a plan for the day after.

1463
01:15:40,240 --> 01:15:42,600
Speaker 5: We need to finish the war, release the hostages, and

1464
01:15:42,720 --> 01:15:45,680
Speaker 5: then start thinking about the day after, what do we

1465
01:15:45,800 --> 01:15:50,280
Speaker 5: do to improve the reality in Gaza and in Israel

1466
01:15:50,800 --> 01:15:53,479
Speaker 5: and to make sure that something like this never happens again.

1467
01:15:53,920 --> 01:15:57,040
Speaker 5: And honestly, right now, that's my biggest concern, apart from

1468
01:15:57,120 --> 01:16:01,479
Speaker 5: the again urgency, stopping the kil bringing back the hostages,

1469
01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:05,000
Speaker 5: including my two friends, my biggest long through concern is

1470
01:16:05,360 --> 01:16:08,640
Speaker 5: we don't really have any kind of plan or what

1471
01:16:08,840 --> 01:16:12,559
Speaker 5: comes next and how we avoid this situation repeating itself

1472
01:16:13,080 --> 01:16:15,200
Speaker 5: in a year or two or three down the road.

1473
01:16:16,200 --> 01:16:17,840
Speaker 2: And Rand, do you want to cue up this clip

1474
01:16:18,040 --> 01:16:20,439
Speaker 2: of you talking to Matt Miller at the State Department

1475
01:16:20,600 --> 01:16:25,240
Speaker 2: briefing yesterday about the UA Sure Israel, Yeah.

1476
01:16:25,080 --> 01:16:26,680
Speaker 1: We get your reaction to this, so we can roll

1477
01:16:26,720 --> 01:16:31,040
Speaker 1: the mercenaries plan. Yeah, well it's part of the mercenaries plan. Yeah,

1478
01:16:31,160 --> 01:16:34,360
Speaker 1: or it appears to be we roll this side from

1479
01:16:34,439 --> 01:16:38,160
Speaker 1: the State Department yesterday earlier on how the letter that

1480
01:16:38,240 --> 01:16:41,560
Speaker 1: you guys sent in mid October tod Israel mentions the

1481
01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:45,880
Speaker 1: suggest that they not pass the unreband right above that

1482
01:16:46,080 --> 01:16:48,519
Speaker 1: in that same letter, at bullet point three of the

1483
01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:51,400
Speaker 1: three bullet points says that is what should also end

1484
01:16:51,479 --> 01:16:54,280
Speaker 1: isolation of northern Gaza by reaffirming that there will be

1485
01:16:54,320 --> 01:16:57,760
Speaker 1: no Israeli government policy of forced evacuations of civilians from

1486
01:16:57,840 --> 01:17:02,160
Speaker 1: northern to southern Gaza. Sure humanitarian organizations have continuous access

1487
01:17:02,240 --> 01:17:06,599
Speaker 1: to northern Gaza through northern crossings and from southern Gaza. Obviously,

1488
01:17:06,680 --> 01:17:10,080
Speaker 1: the thirty days isn't up, but two weeks ago the

1489
01:17:10,160 --> 01:17:15,240
Speaker 1: situation in Northern Gaza was bad. Like today, it's utterly dystopian.

1490
01:17:16,040 --> 01:17:19,760
Speaker 1: The opposite of making progress has happened there. Somebody mentioned

1491
01:17:19,800 --> 01:17:21,879
Speaker 1: the one hundred and nine civilians killed in this residential

1492
01:17:21,920 --> 01:17:24,040
Speaker 1: building is part of this forced evacuation. So it seems

1493
01:17:24,080 --> 01:17:27,000
Speaker 1: like neither of those two things have happened, and in

1494
01:17:27,080 --> 01:17:30,360
Speaker 1: fact they've gone the opposite direction. Do you need the

1495
01:17:30,400 --> 01:17:32,519
Speaker 1: thirty days to make an assessment on it? At least

1496
01:17:32,560 --> 01:17:33,639
Speaker 1: that bullet.

1497
01:17:34,040 --> 01:17:40,120
Speaker 12: So we have made clear that the situation in Northern Gaza,

1498
01:17:40,160 --> 01:17:42,400
Speaker 12: which is what that bullet refers to, needs to change.

1499
01:17:42,960 --> 01:17:47,280
Speaker 12: And Secretary Blincoln made clear directly to the Prime Minister

1500
01:17:47,920 --> 01:17:50,479
Speaker 12: last week that the situation in Northern Gaza needs to change.

1501
01:17:50,520 --> 01:17:51,599
Speaker 1: That we need to see.

1502
01:17:53,320 --> 01:17:56,200
Speaker 12: Everyone in Northern Gaza, every civilian in Northern Gaza, have

1503
01:17:56,280 --> 01:17:59,760
Speaker 12: access to food and water and other humanitarian assistants. And

1504
01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:01,000
Speaker 12: we're going and continue to make that clear.

1505
01:18:02,040 --> 01:18:05,599
Speaker 1: You started with the RSF and the most recent Wark crimes.

1506
01:18:06,120 --> 01:18:08,799
Speaker 1: UAE is one of the strongest backers of the RSF.

1507
01:18:09,040 --> 01:18:12,960
Speaker 5: You guys are very tight with the UAE. Why can't

1508
01:18:13,280 --> 01:18:15,360
Speaker 5: the US pressure of the UAE to put a stop

1509
01:18:15,400 --> 01:18:15,560
Speaker 5: to this.

1510
01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:18,400
Speaker 12: We have made we have made clear to every country

1511
01:18:18,400 --> 01:18:20,200
Speaker 12: in the region, every country around the world, that no

1512
01:18:20,360 --> 01:18:23,920
Speaker 12: country should do anything to prolong this conflict, including providing

1513
01:18:24,040 --> 01:18:25,439
Speaker 12: arms to either of the warring parties.

1514
01:18:25,680 --> 01:18:28,439
Speaker 1: It just seems like countries in that region just aren't interested,

1515
01:18:28,680 --> 01:18:30,640
Speaker 1: like the kind of maybe they listen, but they just

1516
01:18:30,680 --> 01:18:32,599
Speaker 1: don't follow the advice that works.

1517
01:18:32,640 --> 01:18:36,800
Speaker 12: Like every country, every country makes its own decisions on

1518
01:18:36,920 --> 01:18:39,160
Speaker 12: a host of foreign policy issues. But I can tell

1519
01:18:39,160 --> 01:18:41,280
Speaker 12: you that the thing that the Secretary heard time and

1520
01:18:41,320 --> 01:18:43,439
Speaker 12: time again is we were in the region last week,

1521
01:18:43,600 --> 01:18:47,280
Speaker 12: is that partner after partner welcomed our engagement because we

1522
01:18:47,360 --> 01:18:49,880
Speaker 12: are the only ones who could play this critical role

1523
01:18:50,040 --> 01:18:51,920
Speaker 12: of trying to in conflicts in goz It.

1524
01:18:52,200 --> 01:18:55,439
Speaker 1: So about two weeks ago there was this big letter

1525
01:18:55,520 --> 01:18:59,200
Speaker 1: from the Secretary Austin and Secretary Blink and really laying

1526
01:18:59,240 --> 01:19:02,280
Speaker 1: down the gauntlet. These are the things that we really

1527
01:19:02,400 --> 01:19:04,800
Speaker 1: must see or there are going to be consequences. And

1528
01:19:04,880 --> 01:19:06,200
Speaker 1: two of them that I mentioned there in the State

1529
01:19:06,280 --> 01:19:09,120
Speaker 1: farm yon one, do not ban on RA and do

1530
01:19:09,320 --> 01:19:12,080
Speaker 1: not do a force evacuation of northern Gaza. In the

1531
01:19:12,160 --> 01:19:15,479
Speaker 1: two weeks sense they banned on Ra and they did

1532
01:19:15,520 --> 01:19:17,680
Speaker 1: a forced evacuation of the north. Can you tell us

1533
01:19:17,720 --> 01:19:23,920
Speaker 1: from like from the Israeli government perspective, how do they

1534
01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:27,200
Speaker 1: why do they keep doing this? Like what happened to

1535
01:19:27,240 --> 01:19:30,200
Speaker 1: the US, That the US isn't kind of calling the

1536
01:19:30,240 --> 01:19:32,280
Speaker 1: shots anymore here? Or is the US okay with this?

1537
01:19:33,840 --> 01:19:36,840
Speaker 5: First of all, I'll say about UNRA that this is

1538
01:19:36,880 --> 01:19:40,120
Speaker 5: bigger than the US because on the UNRA legislation, Israel

1539
01:19:40,200 --> 01:19:43,960
Speaker 5: has also heard from other allies, the UK, Germany, Arab

1540
01:19:44,040 --> 01:19:47,160
Speaker 5: countries that we have close relationship with everybody advocated against

1541
01:19:47,200 --> 01:19:52,439
Speaker 5: this legislation and the government ignored it. Regarding the forced

1542
01:19:52,479 --> 01:19:54,880
Speaker 5: evacuation in northern Gaza, here, I have to say, I

1543
01:19:55,000 --> 01:19:58,080
Speaker 5: do think Biden did get something with that warning, because

1544
01:19:58,160 --> 01:20:02,480
Speaker 5: the punpulation that was removed from the area of Jebalia,

1545
01:20:02,560 --> 01:20:05,920
Speaker 5: which is north of Gada City, was not pushed south

1546
01:20:06,080 --> 01:20:09,400
Speaker 5: of the Netsam corridor, which is today the main dividing

1547
01:20:09,439 --> 01:20:12,600
Speaker 5: line between northern and southern Gaza. And there is this

1548
01:20:12,840 --> 01:20:16,360
Speaker 5: plan advocated by the far right elements of the Natania

1549
01:20:16,479 --> 01:20:20,920
Speaker 5: government to push the population from northern Gaza thross that

1550
01:20:21,840 --> 01:20:26,320
Speaker 5: specific corridor that rode into southern Gaza. That has not happened,

1551
01:20:26,720 --> 01:20:28,920
Speaker 5: and I do think the letter by the Secretari has

1552
01:20:28,960 --> 01:20:32,120
Speaker 5: had an impact because the population moved a little south,

1553
01:20:32,280 --> 01:20:34,439
Speaker 5: but still within the boundaries of what we would call

1554
01:20:34,600 --> 01:20:37,760
Speaker 5: northern Gaza. So that's just, you know, to put the

1555
01:20:37,840 --> 01:20:40,760
Speaker 5: difference between the two things. And now on the big picture, Ryan,

1556
01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:43,920
Speaker 5: I'll tell you honestly, I think that Natania at some

1557
01:20:44,040 --> 01:20:47,120
Speaker 5: point during the war, I would say around December January,

1558
01:20:47,720 --> 01:20:50,280
Speaker 5: decided to take a bit, and the bat was on

1559
01:20:50,439 --> 01:20:53,320
Speaker 5: Donald Trump winning the election in the United States. He

1560
01:20:53,400 --> 01:20:55,760
Speaker 5: told himself, I will now suffer through a year of

1561
01:20:56,479 --> 01:21:00,920
Speaker 5: you know, condes, all kinds of you know, messaging, and

1562
01:21:02,400 --> 01:21:04,760
Speaker 5: they'll tell me that I'm doing terrible things, you know,

1563
01:21:04,840 --> 01:21:07,720
Speaker 5: and Blinking will call, and Biden will call, and pay

1564
01:21:07,800 --> 01:21:11,040
Speaker 5: Department will call me out in the briefings, and maybe

1565
01:21:11,080 --> 01:21:14,080
Speaker 5: they'll hold some weapons at some point, which they did

1566
01:21:14,200 --> 01:21:18,120
Speaker 5: for two months before invasion of Rafiles. But at the

1567
01:21:18,240 --> 01:21:20,880
Speaker 5: end of the day, their fear of losing the election

1568
01:21:21,040 --> 01:21:25,320
Speaker 5: to Trump will allow me to get away with a

1569
01:21:25,360 --> 01:21:27,200
Speaker 5: lot of things, and eventually, if he will win, I

1570
01:21:27,240 --> 01:21:29,840
Speaker 5: could get away with even more. I think this is

1571
01:21:29,920 --> 01:21:33,799
Speaker 5: the bit that he played. You'll know next week if

1572
01:21:33,880 --> 01:21:35,160
Speaker 5: it actually worked out for him.

1573
01:21:35,320 --> 01:21:36,000
Speaker 1: So what does that mean?

1574
01:21:36,080 --> 01:21:36,160
Speaker 2: Then?

1575
01:21:36,600 --> 01:21:38,960
Speaker 1: What let's say is bad is wrong and Kamala wins.

1576
01:21:40,640 --> 01:21:44,880
Speaker 1: What does that mean for his strategy going forward?

1577
01:21:46,479 --> 01:21:49,600
Speaker 5: I believe if Kamana Harris wins the US election, Antaniell's

1578
01:21:49,600 --> 01:21:53,840
Speaker 5: government will collapse within a matter of very few months.

1579
01:21:54,960 --> 01:21:57,640
Speaker 5: In order to remain in power, Nataniel needs to do

1580
01:21:57,720 --> 01:21:59,920
Speaker 5: two things. First of all, it's important for the view

1581
01:22:00,320 --> 01:22:04,320
Speaker 5: understand how different Israeli politics is than American politics. Right

1582
01:22:04,400 --> 01:22:07,439
Speaker 5: in your politics, we have an election four years, somebody

1583
01:22:07,479 --> 01:22:10,800
Speaker 5: gets elected president and unless they are impeached or they die,

1584
01:22:10,960 --> 01:22:14,080
Speaker 5: they will serve out their term. In Israel, we have

1585
01:22:14,280 --> 01:22:17,280
Speaker 5: coalition politics. We have a multi party system, and the

1586
01:22:17,360 --> 01:22:20,599
Speaker 5: Prime Minister is very powerful, but at the same time

1587
01:22:20,760 --> 01:22:25,879
Speaker 5: can lose power any second if the parties that basically

1588
01:22:26,000 --> 01:22:29,519
Speaker 5: make up his coalition decide they no longer align with him.

1589
01:22:30,439 --> 01:22:34,639
Speaker 5: Netaniao's survival in power after October seven relies on two

1590
01:22:35,320 --> 01:22:39,559
Speaker 5: political forces within his coalition, the ultra religious far right

1591
01:22:40,439 --> 01:22:43,400
Speaker 5: and what we call the ultra Orthodox, which is another

1592
01:22:43,680 --> 01:22:48,160
Speaker 5: very very religious segment of the Jewish population. Both of

1593
01:22:48,240 --> 01:22:52,280
Speaker 5: these parties have very specific interests and demands from Nataniel

1594
01:22:53,120 --> 01:22:58,280
Speaker 5: that require him ultimately to do two things. Number one

1595
01:22:58,439 --> 01:23:01,600
Speaker 5: is to build settlements Ina. This is the demand of

1596
01:23:01,640 --> 01:23:05,760
Speaker 5: the far right elements of his coalition. Number two is

1597
01:23:05,880 --> 01:23:11,240
Speaker 5: to significantly weaken the democratic guard rails within Israel, like

1598
01:23:11,320 --> 01:23:15,840
Speaker 5: the Supreme Court and all the other mechanisms that really

1599
01:23:15,880 --> 01:23:18,439
Speaker 5: separate Israel from the other countries in the region, making

1600
01:23:18,520 --> 01:23:21,000
Speaker 5: it the only democracy in the Middle East, as we

1601
01:23:21,160 --> 01:23:23,519
Speaker 5: like to pride ourselves, and you may recall and the

1602
01:23:23,640 --> 01:23:27,080
Speaker 5: viewers may recall that before October seven, for an entire year,

1603
01:23:27,680 --> 01:23:30,960
Speaker 5: the biggest news story out of Israel was the attempt

1604
01:23:31,040 --> 01:23:36,960
Speaker 5: by Nathaniel's coalition to weaken Israel's democratic institutions and provide

1605
01:23:37,080 --> 01:23:40,880
Speaker 5: much more power to themselves to the government. If Kamala

1606
01:23:40,920 --> 01:23:43,360
Speaker 5: Harris wins the election, both of these things would simply

1607
01:23:43,439 --> 01:23:46,160
Speaker 5: not happen. He will not be able to build settlements

1608
01:23:46,200 --> 01:23:49,639
Speaker 5: in Gaza because the US will put a glaring red

1609
01:23:49,760 --> 01:23:51,920
Speaker 5: line on that, and there will be no more elections

1610
01:23:51,960 --> 01:23:55,720
Speaker 5: to take into consideration, and the fear of being tough

1611
01:23:55,800 --> 01:23:58,479
Speaker 5: on Israel and then losing middle of the road voters

1612
01:23:58,520 --> 01:24:02,040
Speaker 5: for Trump that will be out the window. Settlements in

1613
01:24:02,120 --> 01:24:05,759
Speaker 5: Gaza will simply not happen, and she will be able

1614
01:24:05,840 --> 01:24:09,760
Speaker 5: to use leverage to stop that. In ways that I

1615
01:24:09,800 --> 01:24:14,240
Speaker 5: think Biden has been hesitant or fearful of doing because

1616
01:24:14,240 --> 01:24:18,320
Speaker 5: of the election. And the same goes for crushing the

1617
01:24:18,360 --> 01:24:21,880
Speaker 5: democratic institutions inside Israel, which is really necessary for these

1618
01:24:22,040 --> 01:24:24,880
Speaker 5: ultra religious parties because they want to reshape the country.

1619
01:24:25,720 --> 01:24:27,320
Speaker 5: So I think that from his point of view, he

1620
01:24:27,439 --> 01:24:30,439
Speaker 5: knows pretty much that if she wins, his coalition collapse.

1621
01:24:30,520 --> 01:24:33,040
Speaker 5: He will not be able to fulfill the demands of

1622
01:24:33,160 --> 01:24:37,040
Speaker 5: his partners. If Trump wins, Honestly, it's anyone's bet what

1623
01:24:37,160 --> 01:24:41,920
Speaker 5: will happen. I mean, the guy so unexpected, so unstable,

1624
01:24:42,600 --> 01:24:45,439
Speaker 5: has a history of specific on the Israeli issue, by

1625
01:24:45,479 --> 01:24:47,280
Speaker 5: the way of you know, saying one thing and then

1626
01:24:47,320 --> 01:24:50,719
Speaker 5: saying the opposite and doing you know, I mean, everything

1627
01:24:51,479 --> 01:24:54,519
Speaker 5: is up in the air. But I do believe that

1628
01:24:54,680 --> 01:24:57,160
Speaker 5: Nataniel thinks he can get away with a lot more

1629
01:24:57,280 --> 01:24:59,400
Speaker 5: with Trump and that he can fall to him the

1630
01:24:59,479 --> 01:25:03,120
Speaker 5: settlements in Gaza as condos on the beach, which it

1631
01:25:03,160 --> 01:25:05,800
Speaker 5: will be anything. But but you know, think about Trump

1632
01:25:06,200 --> 01:25:09,280
Speaker 5: and that Trump really, yeah, I really wouldn't care if

1633
01:25:09,400 --> 01:25:13,920
Speaker 5: Israel became more like Russia and less like the Western

1634
01:25:13,960 --> 01:25:16,479
Speaker 5: democracy that it wants to be. He wouldn't shed a

1635
01:25:16,520 --> 01:25:19,120
Speaker 5: tear right. So that's Nathaniel's gamble basically, And.

1636
01:25:19,160 --> 01:25:23,360
Speaker 1: So if Kamala wins and Yao's government does collapse subsequently,

1637
01:25:23,800 --> 01:25:27,400
Speaker 1: what what what political forces are ready to be able

1638
01:25:27,439 --> 01:25:28,040
Speaker 1: to replace it?

1639
01:25:28,200 --> 01:25:28,240
Speaker 12: Like?

1640
01:25:28,320 --> 01:25:31,519
Speaker 1: What comes next if that happens is a is Do

1641
01:25:31,720 --> 01:25:35,639
Speaker 1: those two forces in the far right have enough other

1642
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:38,280
Speaker 1: access to power? Or would there be some type of

1643
01:25:38,320 --> 01:25:40,439
Speaker 1: center right your Lapede situation?

1644
01:25:40,560 --> 01:25:40,800
Speaker 12: What what?

1645
01:25:41,000 --> 01:25:41,040
Speaker 3: What?

1646
01:25:41,360 --> 01:25:42,200
Speaker 1: What replaces him?

1647
01:25:43,960 --> 01:25:47,280
Speaker 5: It would not be replaced by a left wing progressive government,

1648
01:25:47,360 --> 01:25:49,640
Speaker 5: I can tell you it's a left wing Israeli. This

1649
01:25:49,840 --> 01:25:53,080
Speaker 5: is not realistic right now, not at all. But I

1650
01:25:53,160 --> 01:25:56,040
Speaker 5: do believe there could be a center right government that

1651
01:25:56,120 --> 01:25:58,679
Speaker 5: would be more like the government we had in Israel

1652
01:25:59,240 --> 01:26:01,960
Speaker 5: for about a year year and a half after Nathaniel

1653
01:26:02,040 --> 01:26:05,160
Speaker 5: lost power in twenty twenty one and before his comeback

1654
01:26:05,280 --> 01:26:09,200
Speaker 5: in late twenty twenty two. It was a centrist government

1655
01:26:09,360 --> 01:26:13,120
Speaker 5: that had a moderate right wing element and moderate left

1656
01:26:13,160 --> 01:26:17,679
Speaker 5: wing element, and it was in terms of policy much

1657
01:26:17,760 --> 01:26:25,320
Speaker 5: more let's say, perfol and certainly on internal issues, much

1658
01:26:25,439 --> 01:26:28,960
Speaker 5: less provocative and extreme. And I do believe that a

1659
01:26:29,040 --> 01:26:32,519
Speaker 5: coalition like that could rise to power again in Israel,

1660
01:26:32,560 --> 01:26:36,080
Speaker 5: and it will not include Nataniel himself or the far

1661
01:26:36,240 --> 01:26:39,479
Speaker 5: right ultra religious elements that he relies on to have power.

1662
01:26:39,960 --> 01:26:43,679
Speaker 5: It could, by the way, include once again a party

1663
01:26:43,920 --> 01:26:47,640
Speaker 5: representing segment of the Arab Muslim population in Israel. I

1664
01:26:47,720 --> 01:26:50,800
Speaker 5: mean that previous government we had about two years ago.

1665
01:26:51,600 --> 01:26:53,800
Speaker 5: It was historical in one sense that there was a

1666
01:26:53,880 --> 01:26:57,720
Speaker 5: cooperation there between right wing centrist, left wing parties and

1667
01:26:57,800 --> 01:27:02,120
Speaker 5: also one party representing Arab Muslim citizens of Israel. And

1668
01:27:02,439 --> 01:27:05,240
Speaker 5: even after the shocks of Goober seven in the war,

1669
01:27:05,360 --> 01:27:10,160
Speaker 5: I can still see that configuration returning. But you know,

1670
01:27:10,240 --> 01:27:12,120
Speaker 5: all of this is hypothetical. First of all, we have

1671
01:27:12,200 --> 01:27:14,680
Speaker 5: to see what happens in your election, and then we

1672
01:27:14,840 --> 01:27:16,920
Speaker 5: get to a point where Israel also has an election.

1673
01:27:17,080 --> 01:27:20,719
Speaker 1: We still don't have confirmation about anyone would that post

1674
01:27:20,800 --> 01:27:26,160
Speaker 1: that yahoo government move toward ending the war? I think

1675
01:27:26,280 --> 01:27:29,400
Speaker 1: the war it seems like the support tell me if

1676
01:27:29,400 --> 01:27:32,839
Speaker 1: I'm wrong. Support for the continuing the war seems almost universal.

1677
01:27:32,920 --> 01:27:34,439
Speaker 1: Not universal, but close to it.

1678
01:27:34,600 --> 01:27:38,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's complicated. I think most Israelis, if you just

1679
01:27:39,000 --> 01:27:41,360
Speaker 5: ask them right now, do you agree to stop the war,

1680
01:27:41,520 --> 01:27:44,360
Speaker 5: they will say no. But if you ask them, do

1681
01:27:44,520 --> 01:27:47,320
Speaker 5: you agree to stop the war in return for a

1682
01:27:47,479 --> 01:27:51,160
Speaker 5: deal that brings us back all the hostages? Palling in

1683
01:27:51,320 --> 01:27:54,880
Speaker 5: Israel shows an overwhelming majority for this position. We're talking.

1684
01:27:55,000 --> 01:27:57,600
Speaker 5: Some polls have it in the high fifties, others in

1685
01:27:57,680 --> 01:28:00,240
Speaker 5: the sixties, and I've even seen in the seven things

1686
01:28:00,280 --> 01:28:02,719
Speaker 5: in terms of percentage of our population that would say, okay,

1687
01:28:04,280 --> 01:28:07,200
Speaker 5: you know, regardless of the fact that there are still

1688
01:28:07,320 --> 01:28:12,200
Speaker 5: terrorists in Gaza. Course, I mean, look what's happening there,

1689
01:28:13,560 --> 01:28:15,759
Speaker 5: but regardless of the fact that there's still a threat

1690
01:28:15,840 --> 01:28:18,960
Speaker 5: to Israel from other enemies in the north, in the East.

1691
01:28:19,560 --> 01:28:23,160
Speaker 5: We have one hundred hostages there and if we don't

1692
01:28:23,160 --> 01:28:25,479
Speaker 5: bring them back soon, they are all going to die,

1693
01:28:26,000 --> 01:28:28,320
Speaker 5: and we will not even be able to locate some

1694
01:28:28,479 --> 01:28:31,120
Speaker 5: of their graves because the people who help them are

1695
01:28:31,160 --> 01:28:35,320
Speaker 5: also dying in the world. So when you present it

1696
01:28:35,520 --> 01:28:39,120
Speaker 5: like that, you actually have a majority the Israeli society

1697
01:28:39,160 --> 01:28:41,600
Speaker 5: that will say, okay, for a deal that brings us

1698
01:28:41,640 --> 01:28:44,080
Speaker 5: back to hostages, we are willing to stop this war.

1699
01:28:45,640 --> 01:28:48,320
Speaker 5: The problem is that for Natanielle, stopping the war basically

1700
01:28:48,439 --> 01:28:51,840
Speaker 5: means losing power. If he stops the war, the far

1701
01:28:52,040 --> 01:28:55,719
Speaker 5: right elements in his coalition immediately bring down the government,

1702
01:28:56,760 --> 01:29:02,479
Speaker 5: and it's heartbreaking and enraging. But in making the choice

1703
01:29:02,520 --> 01:29:05,600
Speaker 5: between his own political survival and the fate of the hostages.

1704
01:29:06,640 --> 01:29:11,920
Speaker 5: He has made his choice, and it's not the patriotic Zionist,

1705
01:29:13,040 --> 01:29:17,720
Speaker 5: you know, Israeli loving choice that I would expect the

1706
01:29:17,800 --> 01:29:20,439
Speaker 5: leader of this country to make and to you know,

1707
01:29:20,520 --> 01:29:22,680
Speaker 5: to prioritize the lives of our hostages.

1708
01:29:24,800 --> 01:29:26,880
Speaker 1: Well, we'll see how it goes. And Amir would love

1709
01:29:26,920 --> 01:29:28,519
Speaker 1: to have you back on keeping something one of the

1710
01:29:28,560 --> 01:29:32,519
Speaker 1: best sourced reporters I think in in Israeli politics, and

1711
01:29:33,040 --> 01:29:36,400
Speaker 1: the book is called The Gates of Gaza. Whether you

1712
01:29:37,080 --> 01:29:39,120
Speaker 1: agree or disagree, wherever you sit on the spectrum, I

1713
01:29:39,160 --> 01:29:41,960
Speaker 1: think it's it's not only is a gripping read, but

1714
01:29:42,040 --> 01:29:44,960
Speaker 1: it's you know, I think you've come away, you know,

1715
01:29:45,880 --> 01:29:47,639
Speaker 1: understanding more about the situation.

1716
01:29:48,600 --> 01:29:49,040
Speaker 3: Absolutely.

1717
01:29:50,320 --> 01:29:52,400
Speaker 5: Thank you so much, guys for having me really appreciate

1718
01:29:52,439 --> 01:29:53,000
Speaker 5: it well.

1719
01:29:53,080 --> 01:29:56,760
Speaker 2: On Undercurrents this week, around the Undercurrents YouTube channel, I

1720
01:29:56,800 --> 01:30:00,759
Speaker 2: hosted Senator Eric Schmidt for a conversation about the election,

1721
01:30:00,920 --> 01:30:02,439
Speaker 2: just to do a sort of mood check similar to

1722
01:30:02,520 --> 01:30:04,280
Speaker 2: what we did with Shelby earlier in the show. But

1723
01:30:04,360 --> 01:30:07,000
Speaker 2: Schmidt is a personal friend of jd Vance. They were

1724
01:30:07,040 --> 01:30:10,240
Speaker 2: called by CNN or Schmidt was called by CNN arguably

1725
01:30:10,320 --> 01:30:13,559
Speaker 2: his closest friend in the Senate. They were both entering

1726
01:30:13,600 --> 01:30:16,960
Speaker 2: around the same time and similar ages. So Schmid's been

1727
01:30:17,040 --> 01:30:20,200
Speaker 2: campaigning with JD. Vance, and I wanted to throw a

1728
01:30:20,240 --> 01:30:22,519
Speaker 2: couple of questions of him about what's happening behind the

1729
01:30:22,520 --> 01:30:25,160
Speaker 2: scenes of the campaign. And one question I had was, just,

1730
01:30:25,360 --> 01:30:28,639
Speaker 2: you know, the closing message of the Drain the Swamp

1731
01:30:28,880 --> 01:30:31,880
Speaker 2: movement in twenty twenty four taking place at Madison Square

1732
01:30:31,920 --> 01:30:35,760
Speaker 2: Garden with a billionaire like Elon Musk, with Lutnik, so

1733
01:30:35,920 --> 01:30:40,640
Speaker 2: somebody who's a Titan of Wall Street, lots of wealthy celebrities,

1734
01:30:40,720 --> 01:30:42,640
Speaker 2: and so I wanted to ask the under Schmidt if

1735
01:30:42,680 --> 01:30:46,200
Speaker 2: he thinks that that risks undermining the drain the Swamp,

1736
01:30:46,320 --> 01:30:49,200
Speaker 2: anti establishment central message of the Trump campaign.

1737
01:30:49,439 --> 01:30:50,280
Speaker 3: Here's what he had to say.

1738
01:30:50,479 --> 01:30:52,280
Speaker 2: I do want to say, though, from the standpoint of

1739
01:30:52,400 --> 01:30:55,439
Speaker 2: someone kind of on the populist right, I wonder that's

1740
01:30:55,439 --> 01:30:57,640
Speaker 2: where I'm coming from. I wonder if you think that

1741
01:30:57,760 --> 01:31:00,439
Speaker 2: Donald Trump's kind of drained the swamp message, is it

1742
01:31:00,520 --> 01:31:03,679
Speaker 2: all undermined in the minds of voter when you're trotting

1743
01:31:03,720 --> 01:31:07,880
Speaker 2: out celebrities, billionaires from Silicon Valley? And also, I think

1744
01:31:07,880 --> 01:31:11,559
Speaker 2: it was Howard Latnik Wall Street kind of CEO. Does

1745
01:31:11,640 --> 01:31:13,720
Speaker 2: that hurt the drain the swamp message? Does it? Were

1746
01:31:13,880 --> 01:31:16,880
Speaker 2: you as somebody who has come to this from a

1747
01:31:16,960 --> 01:31:20,200
Speaker 2: position of a sort of an anti establishment position when

1748
01:31:20,240 --> 01:31:22,160
Speaker 2: it comes to the economy as well, is there anything

1749
01:31:22,360 --> 01:31:22,720
Speaker 2: to that?

1750
01:31:23,400 --> 01:31:25,320
Speaker 16: I don't think so. I think it's bringing new people

1751
01:31:25,360 --> 01:31:27,760
Speaker 16: into the fold. I mean one of the markers of

1752
01:31:27,960 --> 01:31:31,559
Speaker 16: the movement over the last whatever six seventy eight, almost

1753
01:31:31,640 --> 01:31:34,640
Speaker 16: ten years now is that new people have entered the

1754
01:31:34,680 --> 01:31:37,800
Speaker 16: process right. They're frustrated with things that have happened. It

1755
01:31:37,920 --> 01:31:40,400
Speaker 16: system hasn't worked for them. So to the extent you've

1756
01:31:40,400 --> 01:31:43,919
Speaker 16: got like Elon Musk, who I think he's voted Democrat

1757
01:31:44,400 --> 01:31:47,559
Speaker 16: most of his life or at least recently, He's seen

1758
01:31:47,640 --> 01:31:50,200
Speaker 16: the excesses of the left. He's seen what they really

1759
01:31:50,280 --> 01:31:53,000
Speaker 16: want to do. And I think that more than even

1760
01:31:53,479 --> 01:31:56,040
Speaker 16: r D or Red Jersey or Blue Jersey in some ways,

1761
01:31:56,560 --> 01:31:59,479
Speaker 16: where we're at now is kind of this permanent Washington

1762
01:32:00,400 --> 01:32:03,439
Speaker 16: Democrat allies in the media and Democrats themselves as this

1763
01:32:03,680 --> 01:32:07,160
Speaker 16: sort of alliance, this establishment alliance versus the disruptors, the

1764
01:32:07,200 --> 01:32:09,639
Speaker 16: people who want to see real change. And I think

1765
01:32:09,720 --> 01:32:11,840
Speaker 16: that that bodes well, in this election cycle, that's seen

1766
01:32:11,880 --> 01:32:14,360
Speaker 16: as an election cycle, and Trump's viewed by it like

1767
01:32:14,439 --> 01:32:15,439
Speaker 16: a two to one margin.

1768
01:32:15,760 --> 01:32:17,600
Speaker 3: Okay, but remember the case Missouri v.

1769
01:32:17,760 --> 01:32:20,880
Speaker 2: Biden that was kicked off by Eric Schmidt when he

1770
01:32:21,040 --> 01:32:24,120
Speaker 2: was the Attorney General of Missouri, which was pushing against

1771
01:32:24,200 --> 01:32:28,200
Speaker 2: censorship obviously, and when it was changed into a bigger

1772
01:32:28,240 --> 01:32:29,920
Speaker 2: case of Supreme Court ended up losing.

1773
01:32:30,040 --> 01:32:30,960
Speaker 3: Just in the last term.

1774
01:32:31,280 --> 01:32:34,760
Speaker 2: Donald Trump has been talking about his conversations with Google CEO,

1775
01:32:34,840 --> 01:32:36,800
Speaker 2: who is allegedly, according to Trump, been calling to kind

1776
01:32:36,800 --> 01:32:39,920
Speaker 2: of butter him up, and Matt Stoler, friend of the program,

1777
01:32:40,200 --> 01:32:45,160
Speaker 2: has been saying, this is a worrying sign for mega populists.

1778
01:32:45,680 --> 01:32:49,360
Speaker 2: Let's listen to Eric Smith responding to a question about that.

1779
01:32:49,840 --> 01:32:52,599
Speaker 2: Trump also keeps mentioning the story about how the CEO

1780
01:32:52,640 --> 01:32:54,640
Speaker 2: of Google has called him a couple of times to

1781
01:32:54,960 --> 01:32:57,679
Speaker 2: say that his McDonald's trip was like through the roof

1782
01:32:57,760 --> 01:33:01,560
Speaker 2: on Google. They haven't seen searchas like that forever. And

1783
01:33:01,680 --> 01:33:04,679
Speaker 2: some on the left have said, is this a sign

1784
01:33:04,760 --> 01:33:08,000
Speaker 2: that you know there's Trump is warming up towards Google,

1785
01:33:08,320 --> 01:33:10,400
Speaker 2: that Google is warming up towards Trump. Some people have

1786
01:33:10,520 --> 01:33:13,120
Speaker 2: said that with the Washington Post non endorsement as well

1787
01:33:13,240 --> 01:33:16,840
Speaker 2: that Jeff Bezos, you didn't want to frustrate Donald Trump.

1788
01:33:17,560 --> 01:33:19,880
Speaker 2: You're kind of one of the anti trust guys. You've

1789
01:33:19,920 --> 01:33:22,679
Speaker 2: really helped the Republican Party get tougher on big tech

1790
01:33:22,720 --> 01:33:23,360
Speaker 2: in particular.

1791
01:33:23,600 --> 01:33:24,760
Speaker 3: Does any of that worry you?

1792
01:33:24,840 --> 01:33:26,880
Speaker 2: Do you worry that Donald Trump would go soft on

1793
01:33:27,080 --> 01:33:30,320
Speaker 2: big tech in another administration? Or is this sort of

1794
01:33:30,400 --> 01:33:32,880
Speaker 2: like what you said before, it's a bigger tent and

1795
01:33:32,960 --> 01:33:33,719
Speaker 2: a new coalition.

1796
01:33:34,560 --> 01:33:37,000
Speaker 16: Yeah, I wouldn't be too concerned about that. I think that,

1797
01:33:38,200 --> 01:33:39,920
Speaker 16: you know, some of those big tech giants ought to

1798
01:33:39,960 --> 01:33:42,960
Speaker 16: be a little bit concerned because their behavior has been exposed.

1799
01:33:43,680 --> 01:33:45,400
Speaker 16: You mentioned kind of my role in that. When I

1800
01:33:45,439 --> 01:33:48,400
Speaker 16: was Attorney general in Missouri. We brought that Missouri Versus

1801
01:33:48,479 --> 01:33:52,639
Speaker 16: Biden censorship lawsuit that exposed even before the Twitter files.

1802
01:33:52,680 --> 01:33:55,240
Speaker 16: This is before Elon Musk bought Twitter. It was further

1803
01:33:55,320 --> 01:33:58,000
Speaker 16: amplified by the Twitter files. But what we've found in

1804
01:33:58,120 --> 01:34:00,280
Speaker 16: the discovery in that case, this is back in twenty

1805
01:34:00,360 --> 01:34:03,800
Speaker 16: twenty two, was shocking. I mean, you had direct communications

1806
01:34:03,840 --> 01:34:08,240
Speaker 16: between high ranking Biden administration officials with you know, vice

1807
01:34:08,360 --> 01:34:12,040
Speaker 16: presidents and these organizations that could control content. Take this down, Okay,

1808
01:34:12,120 --> 01:34:12,479
Speaker 16: we'll do it.

1809
01:34:12,600 --> 01:34:13,360
Speaker 5: What else can we do.

1810
01:34:13,800 --> 01:34:18,280
Speaker 16: I think kind of COVID exposed a lot of these excesses.

1811
01:34:18,520 --> 01:34:20,800
Speaker 16: People were shut down, they were shut out, they were

1812
01:34:20,840 --> 01:34:24,240
Speaker 16: trying to be silenced, you know, the kind of counterculture

1813
01:34:24,800 --> 01:34:30,479
Speaker 16: tendency that a young person might have to be a contrarian. Look,

1814
01:34:30,720 --> 01:34:33,680
Speaker 16: the Democrats have adopted this position, along with some of

1815
01:34:33,720 --> 01:34:35,680
Speaker 16: the biggest companies in the history of the world, to

1816
01:34:35,760 --> 01:34:38,000
Speaker 16: kind of shut down and silence people. And you hear

1817
01:34:38,080 --> 01:34:40,360
Speaker 16: Elin Must talk about it. JD talks about it in others.

1818
01:34:40,960 --> 01:34:43,120
Speaker 16: But I certainly saw that firsthand in that lawsuit. So

1819
01:34:43,760 --> 01:34:46,920
Speaker 16: I'm not sure what their game plan is afterwards. But

1820
01:34:47,080 --> 01:34:50,120
Speaker 16: to the extent they're working with government or abusing their

1821
01:34:50,160 --> 01:34:52,960
Speaker 16: own rules to shut people down, they ought to be

1822
01:34:53,000 --> 01:34:55,800
Speaker 16: concerned because we ought to have some reforms in that regard.

1823
01:34:56,080 --> 01:34:59,240
Speaker 2: So nothing super explosive there, Ryan, But I do think

1824
01:34:59,320 --> 01:35:02,320
Speaker 2: some of these questions about Donald Trump's closing message and

1825
01:35:02,600 --> 01:35:05,120
Speaker 2: involving you know, talking about getting buttered up by the

1826
01:35:05,160 --> 01:35:08,240
Speaker 2: Google CEO and covorting with one of the most powerful men,

1827
01:35:08,439 --> 01:35:11,120
Speaker 2: if made me the most powerful man in the entire world,

1828
01:35:11,280 --> 01:35:13,920
Speaker 2: a massive government contractor somebody who's benefited from a lot

1829
01:35:13,920 --> 01:35:20,200
Speaker 2: of taxpayer subsidies like Elon Musk has. It's a tention

1830
01:35:20,640 --> 01:35:23,240
Speaker 2: for sure and his messaging. And the other thing Schmid

1831
01:35:23,320 --> 01:35:26,879
Speaker 2: said is that it feels quote more like twenty sixteen

1832
01:35:26,960 --> 01:35:29,080
Speaker 2: than twenty twenty to him on the ground, he feels

1833
01:35:29,160 --> 01:35:32,160
Speaker 2: like this campaign is going in the right direction for

1834
01:35:32,400 --> 01:35:35,240
Speaker 2: Trump at the right time, with about a week to go.

1835
01:35:35,560 --> 01:35:37,920
Speaker 2: And that's similar to what Shelby said she's hearing from

1836
01:35:38,080 --> 01:35:41,240
Speaker 2: the Trump camp internally. They're quote cautiously optimistic, is what

1837
01:35:41,360 --> 01:35:44,400
Speaker 2: she reported here earlier in the show. So they don't

1838
01:35:44,400 --> 01:35:46,360
Speaker 2: seem to be worried that it's backfiring.

1839
01:35:47,000 --> 01:35:47,479
Speaker 3: But I don't know.

1840
01:35:48,760 --> 01:35:51,839
Speaker 1: I feel like I feel like Trump has just dropped

1841
01:35:51,840 --> 01:35:55,080
Speaker 1: a lot of the economic populism. Yes that Jade Vance

1842
01:35:55,200 --> 01:35:58,920
Speaker 1: kind of likes. Like the best example was, to me,

1843
01:35:59,320 --> 01:36:03,560
Speaker 1: the the speech he gave where his campaign advertised that

1844
01:36:03,600 --> 01:36:04,720
Speaker 1: he's going to he's going to go out and he's

1845
01:36:04,720 --> 01:36:06,759
Speaker 1: going to talk about how he's going to defend SOLL security,

1846
01:36:07,120 --> 01:36:10,559
Speaker 1: He's going to defend Medicare, is actually going to expand Medicare,

1847
01:36:10,720 --> 01:36:13,080
Speaker 1: is even going to make the Affordable Care Act better.

1848
01:36:13,720 --> 01:36:16,000
Speaker 1: He's going to do tariffs, He's going to like you know,

1849
01:36:16,280 --> 01:36:18,720
Speaker 1: crack down on people are ripping us off with our

1850
01:36:18,760 --> 01:36:22,040
Speaker 1: trade deficit. That was the theme of the speech, and

1851
01:36:22,160 --> 01:36:23,880
Speaker 1: it was written and he read it from a teleprompter,

1852
01:36:24,920 --> 01:36:27,680
Speaker 1: but he would pause on the teleprompter every now and

1853
01:36:27,760 --> 01:36:32,120
Speaker 1: then to do a riff on the Laura details of

1854
01:36:33,200 --> 01:36:36,360
Speaker 1: victims of crime by illegal immigrants. And when he would

1855
01:36:36,360 --> 01:36:39,840
Speaker 1: pause there he pause for half an hour and just

1856
01:36:40,200 --> 01:36:44,240
Speaker 1: and just go in on that point, that point, that issue,

1857
01:36:44,720 --> 01:36:48,479
Speaker 1: and he would become animated. You could tell like this

1858
01:36:48,800 --> 01:36:51,519
Speaker 1: is the thing that was really getting him excited, and

1859
01:36:51,760 --> 01:36:54,080
Speaker 1: he and he felt like the crowd was with him

1860
01:36:54,200 --> 01:36:57,120
Speaker 1: on this one. And then he'd get back to you know,

1861
01:36:57,160 --> 01:37:00,240
Speaker 1: and I'll bring down your copays and and I'll you know,

1862
01:37:00,280 --> 01:37:02,920
Speaker 1: I'm also going to go after big Pharma and I'm gonna.

1863
01:37:02,760 --> 01:37:04,439
Speaker 2: It Actually reminds me of the Hairs campaign a way

1864
01:37:04,439 --> 01:37:07,320
Speaker 2: we talked about earlier, that they get really animated when

1865
01:37:07,320 --> 01:37:09,720
Speaker 2: they're talking about how Trump is a fascist, and then

1866
01:37:09,800 --> 01:37:11,200
Speaker 2: they kind of like, we'll get into the meat and

1867
01:37:11,240 --> 01:37:14,640
Speaker 2: potatoes too, you know, like everyone is really i mean,

1868
01:37:14,720 --> 01:37:16,960
Speaker 2: it's understandable, right, Like everyone feels like this is an

1869
01:37:17,000 --> 01:37:20,120
Speaker 2: existential moment, and so they get really caught up in

1870
01:37:20,160 --> 01:37:22,360
Speaker 2: those particular arguments.

1871
01:37:22,000 --> 01:37:28,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, and my yeah, my right right wing populism can

1872
01:37:28,960 --> 01:37:33,439
Speaker 1: either be like this economic nationalistic part of it that

1873
01:37:33,600 --> 01:37:37,920
Speaker 1: you know, Steve Bannon has talked about, like yeah, or

1874
01:37:38,160 --> 01:37:40,080
Speaker 1: it can be the other Steve Bannon element, which is

1875
01:37:40,320 --> 01:37:45,439
Speaker 1: just going after the other. Uh, and it feels like

1876
01:37:45,560 --> 01:37:47,559
Speaker 1: that they're they're they're leading into the other.

1877
01:37:47,960 --> 01:37:51,040
Speaker 2: Well, there's a Leninist component to what Steve Bannon wants

1878
01:37:51,080 --> 01:37:54,639
Speaker 2: to do in the kind of heightened contradiction sense, meaning

1879
01:37:55,360 --> 01:37:58,080
Speaker 2: you have to otherize people and then you open the

1880
01:37:58,160 --> 01:38:03,160
Speaker 2: gates to economic populism and economic revolution. Which is an

1881
01:38:03,280 --> 01:38:06,400
Speaker 2: interesting way to look at it because the risk is

1882
01:38:06,479 --> 01:38:10,439
Speaker 2: obviously that you otherise people, open up the gates, and

1883
01:38:10,520 --> 01:38:13,000
Speaker 2: then you just don't do any of the economic stuff

1884
01:38:13,080 --> 01:38:16,280
Speaker 2: because the corporate capture is so strong in Washington, and

1885
01:38:16,760 --> 01:38:20,400
Speaker 2: I mean, the Trump campaign is signaling that might genuinely

1886
01:38:20,520 --> 01:38:24,240
Speaker 2: be the dynamic if he has another administration. Because to

1887
01:38:24,360 --> 01:38:27,120
Speaker 2: your point, was he still talks about his potential two

1888
01:38:27,200 --> 01:38:29,400
Speaker 2: hundred percent tariff, like that's what he said at Madison

1889
01:38:29,439 --> 01:38:33,439
Speaker 2: Square Garden on certain items they're trying to revive American manufacturing.

1890
01:38:33,479 --> 01:38:34,679
Speaker 3: You hear him talk about that stuff.

1891
01:38:34,880 --> 01:38:37,519
Speaker 2: But Stolar actually went back and looked at his speeches

1892
01:38:37,920 --> 01:38:40,519
Speaker 2: from twenty sixteen and compared them to a speeches to

1893
01:38:40,560 --> 01:38:42,920
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, and you can see pretty clearly when

1894
01:38:42,960 --> 01:38:47,919
Speaker 2: he pulls out excerpts that the economic policy, the economic

1895
01:38:48,000 --> 01:38:51,000
Speaker 2: populism of twenty sixteen is muted this time around. It

1896
01:38:51,120 --> 01:38:55,320
Speaker 2: is just not a central feature of the messaging like

1897
01:38:55,439 --> 01:38:56,719
Speaker 2: it was in twenty sixteen.

1898
01:38:56,960 --> 01:39:00,280
Speaker 1: Right and Democrats were always dismissive of it, would joke

1899
01:39:00,360 --> 01:39:02,800
Speaker 1: that economic anxiety doesn't have anything to do with why

1900
01:39:02,840 --> 01:39:06,680
Speaker 1: people are supporting Trump. And then it's actually just you know,

1901
01:39:06,840 --> 01:39:11,760
Speaker 1: code for racism and bigotry and xenophobia. But now they

1902
01:39:12,360 --> 01:39:14,720
Speaker 1: you don't even get the code. He's pulled out. He's

1903
01:39:14,720 --> 01:39:17,320
Speaker 1: stripped out the code. It's just the straight xenophobia.

1904
01:39:18,439 --> 01:39:21,360
Speaker 3: Well, I mean there's still it's still some some of

1905
01:39:21,439 --> 01:39:22,160
Speaker 3: that is still there.

1906
01:39:22,280 --> 01:39:25,519
Speaker 2: It's just he's not it's stuff there. It's a question

1907
01:39:25,600 --> 01:39:28,280
Speaker 2: as to what enough. That's what I think was interesting

1908
01:39:28,320 --> 01:39:30,519
Speaker 2: about the Eric Schmith thing is like the question is

1909
01:39:30,640 --> 01:39:33,760
Speaker 2: what do they do? Like is the messaging indicative of

1910
01:39:33,880 --> 01:39:36,040
Speaker 2: something that would happen differently? And Schmid has talked about

1911
01:39:36,080 --> 01:39:39,760
Speaker 2: his potential attorney general, so for him not getting any

1912
01:39:39,800 --> 01:39:41,479
Speaker 2: of these questions. I mean, I thought it was important

1913
01:39:41,520 --> 01:39:43,479
Speaker 2: just to hear what he would say to that question,

1914
01:39:43,600 --> 01:39:47,600
Speaker 2: because nobody's asking those questions from the sort of conservative

1915
01:39:47,640 --> 01:39:50,040
Speaker 2: point of view, like are you abandoning what MAGA was

1916
01:39:50,080 --> 01:39:53,320
Speaker 2: supposed to be about On the economic front, it's just

1917
01:39:53,479 --> 01:39:58,559
Speaker 2: constantly taking Trump's bait and asking questions about culture war

1918
01:39:58,760 --> 01:40:01,719
Speaker 2: and blah blah blah. But they're not feeling the heat

1919
01:40:02,120 --> 01:40:05,320
Speaker 2: about what their voters might want to actually see them

1920
01:40:05,439 --> 01:40:07,759
Speaker 2: do if they take office.

1921
01:40:08,040 --> 01:40:09,479
Speaker 3: And he's, as you.

1922
01:40:09,520 --> 01:40:12,480
Speaker 1: Mentioned, the billionaires would rather they talk about immigrants.

1923
01:40:12,920 --> 01:40:16,120
Speaker 2: If you're outsourcing a department to Elon Musk, who has

1924
01:40:16,520 --> 01:40:20,879
Speaker 2: a million conflicts of interest, come on, there's some legitimate

1925
01:40:20,960 --> 01:40:21,840
Speaker 2: questions to be raised there.

1926
01:40:22,840 --> 01:40:25,880
Speaker 1: All right, So Friday show will be an actual show

1927
01:40:26,120 --> 01:40:30,240
Speaker 1: and it's exciting. Friday. We will will have Crystalin Saga

1928
01:40:30,320 --> 01:40:30,639
Speaker 1: as well.

1929
01:40:30,880 --> 01:40:34,800
Speaker 3: We are kindly hosting Friday before the election. We're kindly

1930
01:40:34,880 --> 01:40:35,920
Speaker 3: hosting a real show.

1931
01:40:36,160 --> 01:40:38,960
Speaker 2: We extended an invitation of Crystalin Sager out of the

1932
01:40:39,040 --> 01:40:41,240
Speaker 2: kindness of our own hearts and said, hey, you guys

1933
01:40:41,320 --> 01:40:41,840
Speaker 2: were doing.

1934
01:40:41,760 --> 01:40:42,920
Speaker 3: The show us.

1935
01:40:43,120 --> 01:40:45,080
Speaker 2: You guys want to come on, get their take, get

1936
01:40:45,160 --> 01:40:47,720
Speaker 2: some exposure. It would be good to like, get them

1937
01:40:47,760 --> 01:40:49,640
Speaker 2: in front of people here. People want to hear what

1938
01:40:49,680 --> 01:40:50,160
Speaker 2: they have to say.

1939
01:40:50,160 --> 01:40:53,120
Speaker 1: I'm sure if you want to hear that, they'll be

1940
01:40:53,200 --> 01:40:54,479
Speaker 1: back here tomorrow morning.

1941
01:40:54,640 --> 01:40:55,120
Speaker 3: That's right.

1942
01:40:55,280 --> 01:40:57,360
Speaker 2: But that's our Friday show, and we've got all kinds

1943
01:40:57,360 --> 01:40:59,639
Speaker 2: of fun election coverage show next week. So Breaking Points

1944
01:40:59,680 --> 01:41:01,519
Speaker 2: dot com if you want to become a premium subscriber

1945
01:41:01,640 --> 01:41:03,840
Speaker 2: and support the show otherwise, we'll see you back here

1946
01:41:03,840 --> 01:41:05,000
Speaker 2: on Friday, all right, See that