WEBVTT - QLS Classic: LA Reid Part 2 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:06.000 Questlove Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. What's Up? 0:00:06.040 --> 0:00:09.280 This is Sugar Steve from Questlove Supreme. Anybody who knows 0:00:09.320 --> 0:00:12.000 this podcast is well aware that our interviews can last 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:14.840 for hours, so often we split them into two parts. 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:16.640 It also gives listeners. 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:18.760 A suspenseful reason to come back next week or check 0:00:18.840 --> 0:00:22.279 their podcast feed for more episodes. Back in twenty twenty two, 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:24.400 we sat down with la Reid for what became a 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:27.600 rare three part interview. In part two of La Read's 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:31.200 comprehensive interview at Questlove Supreme, he recalls working with the Whispers, 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:36.240 Whitney Houston and Michael Jackson. Please rate, like, and subscribe 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:39.680 to this on your podcast feeds, check back for new episodes, 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:44.400 and follow our new YouTube page at QLs. 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:48.080 This is a question that I tried to asking Jimmy 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:52.680 jam and I still wasn't satisfied with the answer. Now, 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:56.280 I owned Eyes of a Stranger. I mean, I've owned 0:00:56.280 --> 0:00:59.959 all your records. But when Eyes of a Stranger came out, 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:03.080 and I always have this question, I will ask you. 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:04.720 I will ask that s O s Ben. 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:08.600 I will ask boys to men, how bold do you 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:14.880 have to be in order to start your first three 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:19.880 songs on the album with ballads, especially in this mind 0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:21.840 state where you're like we got to grab them by 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:25.600 the collar right in your mind, you were like, two 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:29.399 Occasions is so damn tef line, we better open with 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:31.160 this joint, Like, are you guys not thinking? 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:33.880 I gotta look at the track list and if the. 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:35.319 First records the first record on. 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:39.400 The list, let me see some eyes. 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:43.000 With my eye, like literally. 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:45.679 And they back to back. That's interesting. 0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:48.800 And the thing is the way the way that I 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:52.040 see records and building records and like the drama and 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:56.080 the up and like two Occasions to me was always 0:01:56.160 --> 0:02:00.520 either the fourth song on side a wow, the second 0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:04.240 song on side to y'all. To me, it's almost like 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:06.480 opening thriller with human nature. 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:08.960 I can't believe. 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:10.760 I just this doesn't make sense to. 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:15.280 Me, I think in terms of albums, and this also 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:17.400 explains why you have way more hits than I do. 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:21.919 Right, No, I think that's a reseequence. 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:26.960 Man, Okay, you have you have the actual vinyl or 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:30.120 cassette or something, because not there, I don't expect you 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:30.600 to have it there. 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:31.480 But I'm saying. 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:35.600 I can't believe that. I thought, can you dance was 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:37.040 the first song on the album. 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:41.760 Hang on second, I'm now checking on the street. 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:45.000 Well on Apple Music it is yeah, you' all right, 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:47.320 it's one and two and can you dance? 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:47.919 This is five? 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:51.720 Yeah, that's what came. Okay, it's the record and. 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:57.359 Well, I mean obviously worked because I think when anyone 0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:04.760 thinks of the deal, it two occasions and at that it's. 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:05.840 Right a rush. All right, all right, so this is 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:07.440 that wasn't even our first single. 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:07.920 Hold up? 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:10.280 What was what was the person? Two occasions was? 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:12.720 Well, damn sure it was to shoot him up? 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:16.440 No, no, hold, I'm gonna tell you. Okay, where's that album? 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:19.360 Where's that album? Is a stranger? Okay? Why he's looking 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:21.800 for it? This reminds me, shit, man, you're right again. 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:24.799 Hold up now I'm on discouds looking at it. It's 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:25.320 straight up. 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:28.919 Yeah, well this is But listen, and this really brings 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:33.440 about full circle because when I don't know if you 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:37.720 remember this conversation, like you the day that Things Fall 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:43.360 Apart came out February twenty third, nineteen ninety nine. The 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:46.080 next day I spoke to you because you were telling 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:47.560 me about like you know, you you were on the 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:51.200 radio and all that stuff, and you gave me a 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:55.680 message from your mom, and your mom said, why would 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:58.920 they bury that Erica Badu's song at the end of 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:03.560 Side Too, Wow, Yes, why do we have to sit 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:07.320 through that and time album to get to it? Which 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:09.440 was kind of like my plans, Like, okay. 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:11.760 Because that's the same I heard that already. Yah, y'all 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:12.240 heard that one. 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:14.800 Yeah, making them listening to it Okay. 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:16.640 Y'all would have never gotten through the rest of the 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:18.960 record to see who we were before we got you. 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:21.800 But you did the opposite of what LA did. 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:24.880 Wow. I know, but that's that's why he's La. 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:31.760 Stop now maybe kind of open when you got. 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:36.719 I swear I don't remember. I really don't remember. 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:40.320 But the only logic that I can come up with 0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:43.640 is put the hits up front. 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:45.440 That's the only thing I can think of, is put 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:46.239 the hits up front. 0:04:46.680 --> 0:04:46.840 Right. 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:50.239 But we put out Yeah, we put out can You Dance? 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:52.640 And we thought we kind of gotten it right, Okay, 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:54.360 we got it right now, now we got it. This 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:57.800 is better than this is better than material things. Sonically, 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:02.799 it's better. Got a right engineer. Tom's not over shadowing everything, 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:06.960 you know, And it didn't work at all we got nowhere, 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:08.800 and then Dick Griffy came. 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:11.320 And this is what Dick stepped in. 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:16.080 He said, he says, comes to the studio, play me 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:22.000 all the records. He's mean about it too, like that's 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:24.240 like that, I played me all the records, like sick 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:26.960 of you, you know, because because by the way, I 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:30.200 forgot to tell you I picked another stiff, not a stiff, 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:34.880 but Babyfaces first solo album was called Lovers and I 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:36.920 Love You, and I know I. 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:38.920 Picked you make Me Feel brand New to cover that's 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:42.840 the same. And when that came out before I Love 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:46.800 You Baby yeah, yeah, and I remember that and it 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:49.160 was cute, but that was me thinking that that I 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:49.600 didn't know. 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:54.720 And Dick Griffy was like, you just you just think 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:56.360 you know everything, don't you. I mean, that's how we 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:59.120 talked to me, like let me tell you them. This 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:02.680 is my record company and this is my studio, and 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:04.000 we're doing that no more. 0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:10.599 So he picked the hits, all the wrong songs I picked. 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:13.440 I picked You Made Me Feel brand New for Babyface, 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:15.520 and I picked can We Talk for the Deal? 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:21.239 Both wrong comes back and picks two occasions and shoot 0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:22.680 him up movie movies. 0:06:23.040 --> 0:06:26.599 He gave me that song. Wow, he gave me the 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:27.800 song another guy. 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:29.760 It's the only time my band ever did a song 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:31.919 that we didn't write or co write. He gave me 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:34.160 that song and said, this might be good for you. 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:36.479 So Kenny and I went and we produced it. But 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:39.440 did you like his song? I did like it. I 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:41.640 liked it, liked it, but my band hated it. 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:42.839 Wait, which, what are we talking about? 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:45.000 Movies? Like the cover Shoot Them Up Movie? 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:45.800 Wait? 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:48.680 Who did the cover? Did the cover? 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:52.200 Bobie Dick from on No Limit Records? He he covered 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:59.039 Shoot him Up movies and like nine Yeah lit the 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:01.360 movie you love wanted to be. 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:02.680 Cleared by the way. 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:03.360 We only did. 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:05.719 We did it because Dick wouldn't make He wouldn't let 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:06.880 us have music videos. 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:08.400 He said we weren't pretty enough. 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:11.920 So really, so I figured if I'm due to occasion, 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:14.080 I mean, I'm not too occasional. We do Shoot them 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:16.680 Up movies, which is a song he gave us. 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:20.840 Maybe we might get a music video. Y'all have not 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:21.960 done music videos. 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:27.040 We don't have no music videos. Yeah, but everybody else 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:29.400 on the list. Charlama had the music videos and. 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:33.920 The weirdest music videos of all time. Right, but we 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:37.640 don't care videos. We're so their videos were so off kilter, man. 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:40.200 But y'all are so pretty. That's so odd. 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:41.640 All right. So here's the deal. 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:46.080 I'm gonna ask you a question as a CEO about 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:50.040 your artist self and hopefully because I think you're one 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:53.600 of the first major CEOs we had on the show 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:57.280 and I needed explained to me, like I'm a twelve 0:07:57.360 --> 0:08:02.160 year old okay, now, an out of the box hit 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:08.800 like two Occasions. Now as a person who has not 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:13.880 had a lifespan, and I'm talking about myself as a 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:17.600 singles artist, you know. I mean, I've had many top 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:19.960 ten albums, you know whatever. I make my living on 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:23.800 the road, but as a singles artist, I'm not. I'm 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:30.840 led to believe that hits are manufactured, not in that 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:35.520 sort of organic way that we're led to believe it is, 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:40.560 where it's like you're just suddenly singing and you know, 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:43.080 I like that two Occasion song by the Deal, and 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:45.679 then you called the radio station and you request it 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:49.160 and then it becomes a hit. I'm led to believe, 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:54.720 especially now, that deals are already made and I'm not 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:58.680 asking about the process of how deals get made, but 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:05.240 is two occasions a hit because it just organically. 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:12.439 Spread that way or was the solar muscle again. 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:14.360 I'm not gonna give up until I get it Dick 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:17.360 Griffy's story behind. 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:18.760 It to make it a hit. 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:23.160 Okay, So what I think poor is. 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:25.280 It a meet you halfway thing? Give us a song 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:27.600 we could work with, and then we'll ram it. 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:29.760 I am shamelessly commercial. 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:32.079 Let me just put that out there, right, I'm you 0:09:32.200 --> 0:09:34.559 and I are opposites in that regard, like I am. 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:39.560 I am like so singles oriented like like, especially like 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:42.680 the first two songs I picked or Stiff's, so I 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:45.200 became like I'm gonna get the singles thing down right. 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:49.200 So I before let me interrupt you real quick, and 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:51.680 I want to use this opportunity to actually the spell 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:57.960 a myth. Okay, I am not anti singles. I actually no, no, 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:02.880 I don't think anti single anti and I is good. 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:07.360 I will freely admit. I mean this might be captain 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:10.880 obvious to you know, Fonte, whatever is I think for 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:13.360 half the people that just pose like a man, I 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:14.760 ain't with that bubblegum pop shit. 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:17.640 It's I believe that pop songs. 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:21.240 Are the hardest things, right right, you give me a 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:24.120 free jazz song, I'll knock that shit. It'll be on 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:29.600 the next Robert Glasper record, you know, instantly. But I 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:33.360 don't know, you know, And I think since I've put 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:36.760 in twenty thousand hours of DJing hard DJing between the 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:40.960 last Roots album, yeah, now there's like nine years of that, 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:45.280 I'm I'm hyper aware of what songs work and don't 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:48.640 work that I didn't have in my first Now, I 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:52.600 guess my job is to not make it so. 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:57.719 You know, now that I know the secrets or the codes. 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:00.000 Or whatever, to figure out how to nuance by none 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:03.120 and not just make it like okay, now that I 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:05.760 know we need hit singles like, I know what our 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:10.640 fan base expects of us. However, I just want to 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:15.000 say that I'm not anti pop because I did. 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:19.240 I think it's you know, kid music. I just never 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:19.960 knew how to. 0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:24.400 Do it right, right. I completely get that. Listen I have. 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:29.000 This may be a fair or unfair comparison, but first 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:31.960 version of Cooling the Gang and then the pop version 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:36.120 Opion right they made they made too Hot and all 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:38.640 those songs they were great, But I hated that band 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:40.280 like I loved the original. 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:45.000 But how do you feel now about looking back as 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:46.880 an executive looking back on it. 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:47.520 But that was me. 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:51.840 That was me before record companies, before anything. It was 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:55.040 just a preference. I'm like, y'all soft, that's soft, like, 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:58.640 that's like what is come on? What's Hollywood swinging? And 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:02.960 those crazy intros in the like those are just songs. 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:06.200 I didn't like it at all. Right now, I understand 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:09.680 the difference. I still prefer the first version of. 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:10.360 Cool in the gang. 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:14.520 So what I'm saying is you and your band can't 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:17.720 really afford to do it. Man, If y'all really, if 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:19.840 y'all really did it. 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:24.240 Like what happens is that you disappoint a lifetime of fans, 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:28.160 and no matter how you feel about it, at that point, 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:30.880 maybe for the first time, you're going to be really 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:33.280 criticized for trying to get hit. 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:37.520 So it's that is it will be the first time because. 0:12:37.600 --> 0:12:40.280 But you're you're so successful at what you do that 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:41.240 that would be a mistake. 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:43.120 My opinion is that that would be a mistake, right 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:44.160 unless it will. 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:49.120 Completely organic, completely like nothing changes except this song just 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:53.040 happened to catch, right, But because if you give anything 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:56.360 to to if you look like you're trying, you can't 0:12:56.400 --> 0:12:59.320 do that like you're you're you're a savior, you could 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:00.520 you can't do that. 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:01.800 I'm not doing that. 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:07.560 However, I am so aware that, wow, we never We've 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:10.280 had grooves, but we never had a melody line. 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:11.800 There's never a part of the song that you can 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:13.800 whistle and it sticks with you. 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:16.719 That's not true. And also, isn't there a gray in there? 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:18.560 Isn't it a fact then that maybe y'all were just 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:21.040 missing an la ear when it comes to singles, because 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:23.280 for me, as the radio girl listened to all these 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:25.959 records that y'all put out, at times, I just felt 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:28.640 like y'all didn't hear the single, y'all put out the 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:30.400 wrong song, like what about the gray? 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:30.760 And there? 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:36.880 As of this conversation two days ago, I'm talking right 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:39.920 now from New Orleans. We just did the Essence Festival 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:46.160 and for the first time we've played with Little Kim, and. 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:49.520 Of course the subject of Lighters Up comes up now. 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:54.320 For those that don't know, Little Kim's Lighters Up song 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:56.200 was a root song. 0:13:58.080 --> 0:13:59.920 That I don't know. 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:05.880 Love Supreme Hill answer Scott. 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:12.000 All I can say was, when Tarika and I went 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:15.720 to Florida, we made lighters up. We took a three 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:20.520 hour dinner break by the way, having dinner with O. J. Simpson, 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:26.560 a bust of rhymes. Long story, yeah, long story, come 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:29.720 back to the studio, finish the music of what you. 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:30.520 Know is Lighters Up. 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:34.000 Came back, you know, pretty confident, like, hey, we're gonna 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:36.120 have a good first single for our Tipping Point record. 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:40.080 And next thing, I know, like a month later, I 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:42.520 hear that song with Little Kim on it, and I 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:48.600 was just like, what the fuck? O Wow, Scott, Well, 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:53.000 I mean, no, Scott obviously gave it to Kim, but. 0:14:53.640 --> 0:15:01.400 Oh, Scott stores you know original root. Scott was the roots. Yes, yeah, so. 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:06.000 Even then, My whole point was that, And you know, 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:07.800 we joked about it, like, you know, this is our 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:08.800 song first or whatever. 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:12.120 She was surprised. 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:14.960 She's like, she like, I heard you play drums on it, 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:19.000 but no, I if you remember and do the right 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:23.600 thing when Samuel Jackson does the Senior Love Daddy the 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:26.720 all thing, Yes, if you listen to that music in 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:29.360 the background, I was do the right thing was on 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:31.440 in the break room, and I remember that. I was like, hey, 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:32.840 let me see if I can make a song without 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:36.880 a snare and just with high hats and symbols. That's 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:39.480 what I was. Wow, that's what I was making. Then 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:41.320 Scott put piano on top of it, and it was like, 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:43.880 all right, this this could work. But my whole point 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:47.200 is that even if we kept that song, I'm not 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:52.600 even certain that he would have done to that song 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:56.400 what she did to So it's almost like, yes, it 0:15:56.440 --> 0:16:00.160 went with this rightful owner. Again, we don't have have 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:04.080 a filter in us that knows how to not flex 0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:07.040 our intellect, Like Treik has to be the smartest guy 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:09.800 in the room, right instead of the most relatable guy 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:11.600 in the room lyrically, and they're rich. 0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:13.680 Ever, let anybody else help pick a single? 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:17.760 Rich was brilliant too, Yeah, definitely, but. 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:20.000 Just got made it up to us by doing don't 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:22.120 say nothing. But then that's when our fan base sort 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:25.360 of clap back, Like I thought, don't see nothing with 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:28.240 Quebla because I like the fact that Treek was saying 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:29.120 something nonsensible. 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:34.840 Here's my take on it. There's two kinds of stars. 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:40.000 There's the artist and there's the song. Right, songs can 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:43.840 be stars, right, and artists can be stars. And when 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:47.760 the two collide, you get with In Houston, I don't know, right, 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:50.600 you get you know, the big whoever you might like 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:54.400 Michael Jackson, you know, but sometimes the artist is the star, 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:57.960 but not necessarily the song. And sometimes the song is 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:01.600 a star, but not necessarily the artist. Big facts, right, 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:06.320 That's how I wo. So I separate those two, right, 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:14.120 turning the back, that song is, yeah, that song as 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:14.440 a jail. 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:20.080 There's many of those, but there's also there's also very 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:22.040 very talented artist Tory Amos. 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:25.359 You don't know if you listen, a hit maker, but 0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:30.040 she's incredible, right, and you know, and and there are others, 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:34.119 you know. But so I separate the two. That's how 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:35.480 I That's how I look at it. 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:38.280 So do you think that the industry as it is 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:43.000 now makes space for those kinds of artists? Do you 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:45.280 think there's a space for those artists to exist, like 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:47.480 on major labels where it's like, Okay, you may not 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:49.760 have the hit record or the TikTok song that is 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:54.000 going off, but you just are an amazing artist, and 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:55.840 I think there's an audience for that. 0:17:56.680 --> 0:17:57.840 You're not gonna like my answer. 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:02.359 I'm trouble, and I got a tag on top of 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:11.680 Fante's question. My answer to that is not if you no. 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:20.560 Hit, that's that's that's that's true. 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:22.760 If you if you got a hot garage band that 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:24.360 don't make his don't no problem. 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:25.960 We'll just put you on the road. Just stay on 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:26.520 the road un till you. 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:30.120 Get a hit, or you better be the band that's 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:34.439 on a label that believes in that, which definitely and 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:37.480 literally I don't even know if I told people this. 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:40.639 The only reason why The Roots lasted that long is 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:44.920 because it was in our contract. If you have album 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:47.399 number one, we have to make three albums. If you 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:50.400 have album number four, we have to make three albums. 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:54.200 If you have album number seven, you have to make 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:57.760 so we couldn't get dropped. That was the only way 0:18:57.840 --> 0:18:59.640 that we never got we would have gotten dropped. 0:18:59.640 --> 0:18:59.920 Otherwise. 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:05.520 Wait, I have to ask this because I heard all right, 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:08.280 so post and I'm so jumping ahead in the future. 0:19:08.320 --> 0:19:11.159 But since you brought it up, I believe the story 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:16.080 that was told to me was back when I think 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:22.080 this was eighty not eighty, This was either nineteen ninety 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:29.600 nine or two thousand. I believe you guys signed an 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:37.760 artist named Stephanie Jerreman Nada to the label, who that 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:42.200 would have been probably a little later than that, probably. 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:47.800 Six. Okay, all right. My whole point is that. 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:57.160 The Fiona Apple incarnation of Lady Gaga was, to my knowledge, 0:19:57.160 --> 0:19:59.560 on a deaf jam artist, or she was signed to 0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:00.800 the label, and. 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:02.800 Yep, I signed her. 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:06.560 Right, what do you see in that artist that later 0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:07.920 morphed into what we know. 0:20:07.960 --> 0:20:09.840 Now The day she came in. 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:12.879 She plays rock and roll piano, first of all, and 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:14.040 she's incredible at it. 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:18.000 And she came in and she had on the white Go. 0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:23.760 Go boots and and she was like justroducing the piano. 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:26.240 I mean, you know, she gets in it, she's inside 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:29.800 the keys, right, thank you. 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:31.159 Right, I'll say that. 0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:34.800 But you know, Tori Amos, that's what I saw in 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:38.639 her prime show. Yeah, that's what I saw, and I 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:42.560 thought she was incredible. And I remember saying to her that, 0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:45.840 and she reminded me of this, because my memory is 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:48.040 not that good. She told me that in that room. 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:52.640 I told her that she would likely change music. That's 0:20:52.680 --> 0:20:56.160 how passionate I was. So we signed her and then 0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:59.080 they started to bring me demos. And when I heard 0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:02.520 the demos, like, I didn't hear that same thing that 0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:06.760 I saw, and I didn't like it. And I had 0:21:06.800 --> 0:21:10.840 Rihanna and Justin Bieber and Kanye and the Dream and everybody, 0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:13.720 and I was feeling myself way too damn much, right 0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:18.680 note your self, like, don't go feeling yourself, and they were, 0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:20.399 and I was like, this is I don't want to 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:22.240 put this out, like, this is not it, this is 0:21:22.280 --> 0:21:25.200 not the girl I signed, this is not this isn't 0:21:25.280 --> 0:21:25.720 moving me. 0:21:26.080 --> 0:21:30.359 And I let her go before we ever released the record. 0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:36.200 And then she found Acon Red One and ultimately Jimmy 0:21:36.200 --> 0:21:41.520 Ivy and she put out Just Dance and it started 0:21:41.560 --> 0:21:42.600 blowing up in Canada. 0:21:42.640 --> 0:21:44.959 I was watching it because I didn't want to be embarrassed. 0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:50.400 I was like, that's just Canada. Then I started seeing 0:21:50.440 --> 0:21:54.320 it blow up in Miami. That's just Miami, that's just 0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:56.920 the clubs. Then it started blowing up in the Bay. 0:21:58.720 --> 0:22:06.479 Then it charted man and then god god, I was like, 0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:08.400 you stupid. 0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:12.400 You feel like wow yo? 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:16.240 So okay, So question so in that situation and your 0:22:16.320 --> 0:22:20.359 role as an executive, how much of it is putting 0:22:20.400 --> 0:22:23.600 out or putting out things that you like versus a 0:22:23.680 --> 0:22:25.320 record may come to you and it's like, Okay, I 0:22:25.320 --> 0:22:28.040 personally don't like this, but I know that it will 0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:29.120 work with this audience. 0:22:29.200 --> 0:22:31.280 Like how much of it is like your personal taste 0:22:31.359 --> 0:22:31.960 versus the market. 0:22:32.040 --> 0:22:32.880 It's a little bit of both. 0:22:32.920 --> 0:22:36.919 First of all, I will stand even in that case 0:22:37.400 --> 0:22:39.760 I clearly blew it. But for the most part, I'll 0:22:39.800 --> 0:22:42.199 stand by other people that work at the label. If 0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:45.480 they say they're passionate about something, I'll give it a shot. 0:22:45.520 --> 0:22:48.520 It doesn't have to just be my thing, right, But 0:22:48.560 --> 0:22:52.040 if it's something that I signed, that I personally endorsed, 0:22:52.080 --> 0:22:55.359 then I want to feel good about it. In those cases, 0:22:55.359 --> 0:22:58.479 I'm kind of listening to me, right, But I just 0:22:58.520 --> 0:23:00.720 blew it, Man, I just completely blew it. 0:23:00.840 --> 0:23:03.160 I have to appreciate. But here's the thing I appreciate 0:23:03.280 --> 0:23:07.359 about this story. We've had three artists on the show 0:23:08.040 --> 0:23:11.800 that told us the story of where it wasn't working 0:23:11.840 --> 0:23:17.399 out with their label staff right, and and instead of 0:23:17.480 --> 0:23:21.119 just being like, you know what, you're right, let's let's 0:23:21.840 --> 0:23:23.800 let's call it the other day and let you go, 0:23:25.280 --> 0:23:31.520 I learned that the label will sometimes just freezing artists 0:23:31.520 --> 0:23:33.920 out just to avoid the embarrassment. 0:23:34.800 --> 0:23:37.280 In case that happens, Yes. 0:23:37.320 --> 0:23:41.199 For sure, people hold on. They don't want to be 0:23:41.280 --> 0:23:44.760 wrong or they don't want to make a decision. But 0:23:44.960 --> 0:23:47.600 I don't respect that like I'd rather like, listen, I 0:23:47.680 --> 0:23:50.280 blew it, and I tell you I blew it, and 0:23:50.280 --> 0:23:53.720 and while it while it, it pains me and it's embarrassing. 0:23:54.200 --> 0:23:56.160 I'd rather live in that truth than to. 0:23:56.160 --> 0:23:59.719 Have shelved her and just made her keep going back 0:23:59.800 --> 0:24:01.879 and going back and going back when I knew I 0:24:01.880 --> 0:24:02.439 didn't like it. 0:24:02.480 --> 0:24:03.560 I didn't like it. 0:24:03.560 --> 0:24:06.600 It wasn't for me, right, So if it's not for me, 0:24:06.800 --> 0:24:08.840 perhaps she could have a life somewhere else. And I'm 0:24:08.920 --> 0:24:11.680 actually okay with that, as embarrassing as it is. 0:24:11.880 --> 0:24:14.800 How different was the music that she presented to you? 0:24:15.720 --> 0:24:18.280 How different was it than what she presented. 0:24:17.840 --> 0:24:18.359 To the world. 0:24:18.960 --> 0:24:21.280 It was very different because if you know her, you 0:24:21.320 --> 0:24:24.240 know she's diverse and she could do many things. And 0:24:24.280 --> 0:24:26.359 the kind of music she made on the first album 0:24:26.440 --> 0:24:28.200 and a little bit on the second album, she's never 0:24:28.240 --> 0:24:31.680 revisited that. So she's clearly able to do a lot 0:24:31.720 --> 0:24:36.119 of different kinds of music. And it wasn't that was 0:24:36.160 --> 0:24:39.440 like like dance pop or that's what I called it, 0:24:39.480 --> 0:24:43.440 you know, it wasn't ediom yet or no, it wasn't 0:24:43.440 --> 0:24:46.119 that flavor at all. It was kind of piano based 0:24:46.960 --> 0:24:50.359 a little bit, jamming a little bit, yeah, but it 0:24:50.480 --> 0:24:51.120 just can they. 0:24:51.000 --> 0:24:51.600 Didn't feel like it. 0:24:56.480 --> 0:24:58.119 All right, we gotta get back at the time Machine 0:24:58.119 --> 0:25:00.639 because I'm not trying to coll. 0:25:03.760 --> 0:25:03.960 Well. 0:25:04.040 --> 0:25:08.119 I want to know what touring with the Deal was 0:25:08.200 --> 0:25:12.240 like across the States as opposed to just you guys 0:25:12.240 --> 0:25:14.440 being in one environment as a club band. 0:25:15.600 --> 0:25:17.640 Like your first, your first touring. 0:25:17.440 --> 0:25:19.760 Oh my god, our first the first show we had 0:25:20.160 --> 0:25:23.680 as the Deal with body Talk as a hit, we 0:25:23.920 --> 0:25:27.000 opened for the DeBarge and Luther. 0:25:26.880 --> 0:25:30.720 Vandros Oh that sounds familiar, life changing moment. 0:25:30.880 --> 0:25:31.040 Right. 0:25:31.160 --> 0:25:36.480 First show is at uh in Indianapolis at Market Square Arena. 0:25:37.440 --> 0:25:39.880 So now now we have a band that's gone from 0:25:39.880 --> 0:25:43.159 playing club that could barely hold two hundred people to 0:25:43.359 --> 0:25:46.920 Market Square Arena and we hit that stage and we 0:25:46.960 --> 0:25:49.400 would open the act. So we got a line check 0:25:49.440 --> 0:25:52.800 but not a sound check. And I like to use 0:25:52.840 --> 0:25:56.400 that as an excuse why we were so bad. 0:25:56.560 --> 0:25:59.080 But we were horrible. 0:25:59.600 --> 0:26:01.719 I mean were so horrible when we got off stage, 0:26:01.760 --> 0:26:04.400 like we didn't even you know, we're supposed to be excited. 0:26:04.480 --> 0:26:05.720 That's our first show is. 0:26:05.680 --> 0:26:08.920 In a big arena and a major tour, and we 0:26:08.960 --> 0:26:12.360 should have been like really happy, and excited and slapping 0:26:12.359 --> 0:26:16.199 each other five and and having a celebratory moment. But 0:26:16.800 --> 0:26:20.320 we were really embarrassed by it. Uh, we didn't have 0:26:20.520 --> 0:26:23.200 we were not built for that big stage. We didn't 0:26:23.240 --> 0:26:26.960 know what we were getting into. And and we overdid 0:26:27.160 --> 0:26:34.680 our We overdid our our gimmick too much, makeup, too much. 0:26:34.520 --> 0:26:37.520 Everything for all the cities or for certain cities. 0:26:37.720 --> 0:26:41.240 No, this was just this one show. 0:26:41.280 --> 0:26:41.960 So the show is. 0:26:41.960 --> 0:26:46.040 Over and I'm in the hotel room. My road manager, 0:26:46.680 --> 0:26:52.080 his name is Leon Burnett, wonderful man. He comes, Dick 0:26:52.119 --> 0:26:57.040 Griffy wants to talk to you. I'm like, oh, and 0:26:57.480 --> 0:27:00.000 I don't remember the conversation that well, but I remember 0:27:00.280 --> 0:27:04.320 being a little bit frightened and not threatened, but warned 0:27:05.040 --> 0:27:08.520 if we come out like that again, we're off the show. 0:27:09.000 --> 0:27:12.120 And I remember him saying something. 0:27:11.760 --> 0:27:16.119 About Sylvester, right, like we don't want no more Sylvester's 0:27:16.160 --> 0:27:17.440 we don't want to know something like that. 0:27:17.560 --> 0:27:18.640 Like it was something like that. 0:27:18.760 --> 0:27:21.720 And anyway, we cleaned up our act and the next 0:27:21.800 --> 0:27:24.360 night we were a lot better. Right, But the first night, man, 0:27:24.400 --> 0:27:27.560 we blew it so badly. It was just really bad. 0:27:28.640 --> 0:27:31.600 And then we got a little used to it. Luther 0:27:31.720 --> 0:27:35.520 embraced us, El debarsed embraced us, and we all kind 0:27:35.520 --> 0:27:39.080 of became friends. And then they started, you know, we 0:27:39.160 --> 0:27:42.480 got treated a little bit better, and we got better 0:27:42.520 --> 0:27:44.560 and we had some nights when we actually really caught 0:27:44.560 --> 0:27:45.320 a good rhythm. 0:27:46.560 --> 0:27:51.000 But I've heard stories of Luther's restrictions. Again, I'm also 0:27:51.040 --> 0:27:54.040 a good friend with a friend of the show is 0:27:54.800 --> 0:27:59.760 Sheep Gordon, who would say, how ain'tal retentive. 0:27:59.320 --> 0:28:02.000 Luther was with the lights you can use or the 0:28:02.040 --> 0:28:02.920 colors you can wear. 0:28:03.359 --> 0:28:06.320 Yes, we never heard about colors. 0:28:06.359 --> 0:28:10.400 Definitely the lights and how many channels on the mixing console. 0:28:10.560 --> 0:28:11.640 And things like that. 0:28:11.760 --> 0:28:15.639 But like Luther and I were buddies, you know, and 0:28:15.640 --> 0:28:18.080 and Kenny because like he has so much respect for 0:28:18.160 --> 0:28:21.000 Kenny as a songwriter, because we used to give Luther 0:28:21.080 --> 0:28:23.679 demos when we were on the road. Uh So we 0:28:23.840 --> 0:28:27.280 just kind of built a relationship and we never felt 0:28:27.280 --> 0:28:31.159 like there was a lot of restrictions there. As a 0:28:31.160 --> 0:28:33.440 matter of fact, he wouldn't even make us leave backstage. 0:28:33.480 --> 0:28:35.600 He would let us state, you know, because there used 0:28:35.640 --> 0:28:37.720 to be this when the superstar comes out of the 0:28:37.800 --> 0:28:48.080 dressing room. 0:28:38.440 --> 0:28:38.600 All. 0:28:43.440 --> 0:28:43.600 Right. 0:28:43.600 --> 0:28:47.920 Now it's definitely still happens one of those people is 0:28:47.920 --> 0:28:49.760 going to jail for thirty years. But he used to 0:28:49.840 --> 0:28:53.080 do that all the time, right, it was the same. 0:28:54.680 --> 0:28:57.320 But Luther didn't do that to us. He let us 0:28:57.320 --> 0:28:59.760 hang right and oh, did you. 0:28:59.720 --> 0:29:05.600 Know the drummer? Yes? I own a snare drummer? You do. 0:29:05.960 --> 0:29:08.440 I got lucky someone had. 0:29:08.640 --> 0:29:10.440 I'm sorry sidebar? How good was he? 0:29:10.720 --> 0:29:13.240 Like? I want to know what you thought? I loved 0:29:13.240 --> 0:29:13.760 your guests. 0:29:14.200 --> 0:29:17.800 Actually one of the very first instructional one of the 0:29:17.800 --> 0:29:20.959 first instructional drum things. I used to my teacher used 0:29:20.960 --> 0:29:24.680 to make me watch Yogi did one before he passed away? 0:29:25.240 --> 0:29:28.400 Wait, can I ask? Did he pass away while on tour? 0:29:29.960 --> 0:29:31.200 Yes, but not that tour. 0:29:32.080 --> 0:29:34.840 Were you guys on the tour or we. 0:29:34.680 --> 0:29:36.600 Weren't on the tour that he passed away on It 0:29:36.640 --> 0:29:38.440 was two years later, okay. 0:29:39.120 --> 0:29:41.640 I always wanted to know how how did Luther recovered? 0:29:41.640 --> 0:29:44.160 Like finding another drummer and that sort of I wasn't. 0:29:43.960 --> 0:29:47.000 Around, but we were on the tour when Marvin passed away. 0:29:47.000 --> 0:29:49.280 We were on tour with Luther when Marvin passed. I 0:29:49.280 --> 0:29:53.560 remember us having a prayer moment backstage, completely quiet. Everybody 0:29:53.560 --> 0:29:56.320 on the tour holding hands and Luther. Yeah, it was 0:29:56.440 --> 0:29:59.160 really it was really moving. It was really something. Luther 0:29:59.320 --> 0:30:02.560 was really torn, right, all of us were. I didn't 0:30:02.600 --> 0:30:05.520 know Marvin personally, but obviously was touched by his music. 0:30:05.920 --> 0:30:08.280 But Luther must have been very close to him because 0:30:08.440 --> 0:30:13.600 he assembled everybody, every truck driver, everybody backstage right. 0:30:13.600 --> 0:30:16.560 Oh really it was really special, really special. 0:30:16.760 --> 0:30:19.040 The reason why I'm asking you about tour life is 0:30:19.080 --> 0:30:24.160 because I know eventually you're going to morph into just production, 0:30:24.560 --> 0:30:26.240 which of course means that you're going to have to 0:30:27.160 --> 0:30:30.920 leave the band in your mind? Is it like, okay, 0:30:30.960 --> 0:30:33.920 there has to be something else other than this, Like 0:30:34.520 --> 0:30:39.520 where's the point where suddenly the wheels are turning and 0:30:39.560 --> 0:30:42.600 you're like, okay, we have to be a team, we 0:30:42.680 --> 0:30:45.680 have to write hits? Like how does that happen for me? 0:30:45.760 --> 0:30:46.000 It was. 0:30:47.520 --> 0:30:50.400 We enjoyed being on the road. I enjoyed it. On 0:30:50.440 --> 0:30:54.680 the very first tour that we did and the second album, 0:30:54.720 --> 0:30:57.200 as we talked about material, things didn't work, so we 0:30:57.240 --> 0:31:00.040 didn't have as much work, but we still did some 0:31:00.040 --> 0:31:01.160 some gigs here and there. 0:31:02.080 --> 0:31:05.320 We worked, and then the third album took a while. 0:31:05.880 --> 0:31:09.360 So between our second album and the third album, we 0:31:09.440 --> 0:31:13.040 started to develop as songwriters. 0:31:12.320 --> 0:31:14.480 And producers a little bit better, and. 0:31:14.640 --> 0:31:17.720 Because the second album wasn't a success, we. 0:31:17.720 --> 0:31:19.440 Had a little more time on our hands. 0:31:19.760 --> 0:31:23.560 So when we went back to do the tour with 0:31:23.680 --> 0:31:28.640 two occasions, I was over it, like seriously was over it, 0:31:28.680 --> 0:31:29.960 like before the tour started. 0:31:30.480 --> 0:31:33.160 And because I couldn't play anymore, man, I lost. 0:31:33.240 --> 0:31:33.640 I didn't. 0:31:33.680 --> 0:31:37.000 I don't know what happened, but maybe I started thinking 0:31:37.040 --> 0:31:39.680 about it or I don't know, but something got into 0:31:39.680 --> 0:31:43.360 me and I just couldn't play anymore. And my hands 0:31:43.360 --> 0:31:46.040 were hurting, like I felt like I had arthritis in 0:31:46.120 --> 0:31:49.720 my hands, and I just I lost it. 0:31:50.120 --> 0:31:50.840 I mean at. 0:31:50.720 --> 0:31:53.320 Sixteen, I thought I was really good, you know, at 0:31:53.360 --> 0:31:56.480 twenty one, I thought I was really good. And by 0:31:56.600 --> 0:31:58.840 my mid twenties, man, it just started to go away 0:31:59.440 --> 0:32:02.800 and really never got it back. So like I, I 0:32:03.200 --> 0:32:05.960 still have this, and that didn't upset you, Yes, it 0:32:06.080 --> 0:32:10.000 really upset me except one thing. I took that drum machine, 0:32:10.720 --> 0:32:13.960 and I'm a master that thing I was. 0:32:14.280 --> 0:32:16.160 I was like, I don't care who you are, Jimmy 0:32:16.240 --> 0:32:18.440 jam Teddy Riley, I'm challenging anybody. 0:32:18.920 --> 0:32:21.520 I could do this better than anybody, right, And so 0:32:21.680 --> 0:32:23.920 I switched what was your choice. 0:32:24.400 --> 0:32:27.760 I have every drum machine they made, Man Drum, the DMX, 0:32:27.800 --> 0:32:29.000 the eight Away everything. 0:32:29.560 --> 0:32:33.720 For me, I have to say, you do you do 0:32:33.880 --> 0:32:38.120 have a trademark. It's I don't know how you did 0:32:38.160 --> 0:32:40.760 it or why you did it, but I noticed it. 0:32:41.520 --> 0:32:47.280 Every fourth, maybe every eighth class, you will put extra 0:32:47.400 --> 0:32:51.440 emphasis on the refer right, like. 0:32:51.560 --> 0:32:55.360 Some class would be normal. I got that from Jimmy Jam. 0:32:55.600 --> 0:33:02.680 I straight stole that from Jimmy Jam because control bom 0:33:04.520 --> 0:33:08.240 right and I loved it so much, so it was 0:33:08.280 --> 0:33:10.120 really Jimmy's signature. 0:33:10.400 --> 0:33:14.640 I borrowed it with friends. 0:33:12.040 --> 0:33:15.760 But every it wouldn't be every clap, it would be everyone. 0:33:16.560 --> 0:33:17.960 It was strategically placed. 0:33:18.080 --> 0:33:21.480 And for me, when I think of the sound of classic, 0:33:22.280 --> 0:33:24.840 like when I think of Jimmy, Jame, Terry Lewis, it's 0:33:24.960 --> 0:33:28.920 like the sound of the classic gate Away, right, the 0:33:29.000 --> 0:33:34.720 sound that old boy who produced loosenslly oh, Nick Marnelli, 0:33:34.760 --> 0:33:37.560 that's right, that's right, five star like anything that sounds 0:33:37.600 --> 0:33:41.480 like Jam and Lewis, Like that's their trademark. 0:33:41.520 --> 0:33:43.000 But for you, it's always. 0:33:44.200 --> 0:33:48.400 Right to this day, like no one has mastered that 0:33:48.520 --> 0:33:53.440 level of gated reaverb better man than you did. 0:33:53.560 --> 0:33:55.280 But was that. Okay, you say you took it. 0:33:55.200 --> 0:33:57.560 From him, I mean, but still, you know, we learned 0:33:57.600 --> 0:33:59.600 from each other and then you know, you're in bella 0:33:59.640 --> 0:34:01.040 ship and do things with it. 0:34:01.080 --> 0:34:03.680 But but I would spend hours. 0:34:03.360 --> 0:34:05.920 Hours and hours and hours and hours playing with those 0:34:06.040 --> 0:34:09.960 drum machines and playing with rhythms and taking Kenny's keyboards 0:34:10.000 --> 0:34:13.280 and muting them and putting them through filters and playing. 0:34:13.360 --> 0:34:16.640 I just played with the sound, you know, a lot, 0:34:16.719 --> 0:34:20.279 and that became my new passion. So that and a 0:34:20.320 --> 0:34:22.239 lot of that was because, by the way, I never 0:34:22.320 --> 0:34:27.120 actually played live on a recording session. Really really I 0:34:27.160 --> 0:34:29.000 did when I was young, Like when I was young, 0:34:29.040 --> 0:34:31.600 I did some records, but like after we had the 0:34:31.680 --> 0:34:35.520 deal and when we be came uh and started making records, 0:34:35.560 --> 0:34:37.799 like I never actually played a live kit on a 0:34:37.880 --> 0:34:43.000 drum on a record, Like never never on a hit record, right, uh. 0:34:42.880 --> 0:34:46.560 Hey, you know what it's called for, right I was. 0:34:46.760 --> 0:34:49.040 And then I heard you and then I was like, oh, 0:34:49.440 --> 0:34:49.799 get out. 0:34:51.200 --> 0:34:53.399 I remember I heard about new record. I was like, yo, 0:34:53.920 --> 0:34:55.799 my son telling me. I was like, I was like, 0:34:56.000 --> 0:34:56.879 who is that? 0:34:57.880 --> 0:35:00.360 And then I read about your Rolling Stone magazine and 0:35:00.760 --> 0:35:05.600 with your dad and all think I'm gone from me anyway, 0:35:05.640 --> 0:35:08.400 So can you talk to us about the conversation that 0:35:08.520 --> 0:35:11.920 leads to you and Kenny like really making this official? 0:35:11.960 --> 0:35:16.319 Who was the first outside non deal artist that the 0:35:16.480 --> 0:35:18.200 La and Babyface that we know of. 0:35:19.440 --> 0:35:24.000 Let's see, the very first one was when we officially 0:35:24.040 --> 0:35:28.879 did it together. That would have been the whispers rock Steady, Yeah, 0:35:29.000 --> 0:35:31.719 rock Steady. That's when we did it together and they 0:35:31.840 --> 0:35:34.840 hired Kenny. They called Kenny, they didn't call both of us, 0:35:35.000 --> 0:35:39.040 and Kenny said, I have to have La with me, 0:35:39.239 --> 0:35:40.320 so he pulled me along. 0:35:41.040 --> 0:35:43.080 Okay, right, And. 0:35:44.600 --> 0:35:45.640 It was really special. 0:35:45.680 --> 0:35:46.360 It was really good. 0:35:46.239 --> 0:35:49.720 Looking out and we had a comfort level working. 0:35:50.719 --> 0:35:55.040 But Kenny was obviously really famous and at Solar as 0:35:55.080 --> 0:35:58.439 a songwriter more so than like the two of us, 0:35:58.840 --> 0:36:02.840 you know, and because of Yeah, that's kind of what happened, 0:36:03.400 --> 0:36:06.120 and we went in, we made rock Steady and then 0:36:06.160 --> 0:36:07.080 it became official. 0:36:07.680 --> 0:36:10.040 You know, did you know there was a pop hit 0:36:10.600 --> 0:36:13.520 or immediately did it become about it? 0:36:13.640 --> 0:36:13.759 No? 0:36:13.880 --> 0:36:15.480 I knew it immediate, I swear to you. 0:36:15.560 --> 0:36:15.839 I did. 0:36:16.000 --> 0:36:19.320 Like when what when we were writing it? I knew 0:36:20.000 --> 0:36:23.440 when we were we were in an apartment on we 0:36:23.480 --> 0:36:26.799 lived on Highland Avenue in Hollywood, and when we were 0:36:26.880 --> 0:36:30.799 writing it, I had a really good feeling about it. 0:36:30.840 --> 0:36:33.080 But then when we got in the studio and we 0:36:33.200 --> 0:36:35.279 laid it down and we put the Whispers on the 0:36:35.320 --> 0:36:40.160 background vocal before they sang lead. I remember, I'll never 0:36:40.239 --> 0:36:43.080 ever forget that moment. I was like, oh my god, 0:36:43.719 --> 0:36:47.040 this is a smash. I knew it, and people in 0:36:47.080 --> 0:36:49.279 the studio knew it. Like in other rooms, people would 0:36:49.320 --> 0:36:51.680 come around while we were working on it and hang 0:36:51.719 --> 0:36:52.919 out in the doorway and watch. 0:36:53.000 --> 0:36:55.040 It was just something special going on in that room, 0:36:55.080 --> 0:36:56.120 and we knew it right. 0:36:56.640 --> 0:36:56.920 Uh. 0:36:56.960 --> 0:37:00.520 And then when you know, Scottie and walk from the 0:37:00.520 --> 0:37:02.680 Whispers put their vocal on it, they just that was 0:37:02.960 --> 0:37:04.799 icing on the cake. But I swear to you I 0:37:04.840 --> 0:37:07.040 already felt it was a hit. And that goes back 0:37:07.040 --> 0:37:09.720 to your other question, like our. 0:37:09.440 --> 0:37:14.040 Hits manufactured or factored? Is it organic? 0:37:15.360 --> 0:37:17.440 I think that it's a little bit of both. 0:37:18.600 --> 0:37:22.600 Anytime I see the Whispers sing, both Scotty twins sing 0:37:22.640 --> 0:37:26.080 in tandem, right, who's doing the singing? 0:37:26.400 --> 0:37:29.840 Because that sounds like one verse, it's Scotty. 0:37:29.840 --> 0:37:35.360 Scotty is the one, okay, Walter Walter is a lighter version, 0:37:36.560 --> 0:37:40.560 same same, a very similar tone, very similar, but but 0:37:40.920 --> 0:37:42.280 Scotty has more power. 0:37:43.040 --> 0:37:48.760 Oh so when is it when it's guage time, that's 0:37:48.800 --> 0:37:50.480 that's Scotty that we know Scotty. 0:37:50.680 --> 0:37:51.200 That's Scotty. 0:37:51.280 --> 0:37:51.440 Man. 0:37:51.840 --> 0:37:55.480 It just gets better with time and Scotty. That's right. Yeah, 0:37:57.200 --> 0:38:01.760 in the mood, Scotty move, that's Scotty. Okay, Oh wow, 0:38:02.600 --> 0:38:03.000 Sorry for. 0:38:03.040 --> 0:38:04.440 Telling the truth, y'all. 0:38:04.560 --> 0:38:07.799 I appreciate it, but I just always wanted to know 0:38:07.920 --> 0:38:12.080 why when they sing. I've never seen just one person 0:38:12.200 --> 0:38:15.279 sing that song. It's always both of them together, I. 0:38:15.200 --> 0:38:18.480 Know, right, Yeah, that's the show show. 0:38:18.760 --> 0:38:20.839 Yeah, that's what that is. 0:38:21.120 --> 0:38:23.480 Dick Griffy was that did he re react to when 0:38:23.520 --> 0:38:24.200 you got that big hit? 0:38:24.239 --> 0:38:25.760 Did he say something to you about I was curious 0:38:25.800 --> 0:38:28.719 because you was hitting some duds, so it's according to him. 0:38:29.640 --> 0:38:30.840 Yeah, I don't remember. 0:38:31.239 --> 0:38:33.640 I really don't remember it though, because we had another 0:38:33.719 --> 0:38:35.719 hit at the same time that he wasn't. 0:38:35.560 --> 0:38:37.920 Very happy about what girlfriend. 0:38:38.200 --> 0:38:41.480 It was called Girlfriend, and it was on and it 0:38:41.560 --> 0:38:45.160 was on a competing label, m c A, and I 0:38:45.200 --> 0:38:49.080 felt more. I felt more shade from Dick about doing 0:38:49.120 --> 0:38:55.000 that than I did. Congratulations for making rock steady, damn. 0:38:55.320 --> 0:38:55.960 Yeah. Okay. 0:38:56.600 --> 0:38:58.080 As a matter of fact, I remember him coming to 0:38:58.160 --> 0:39:01.120 visit me once and I was like, Hey, just made 0:39:01.160 --> 0:39:01.879 this record on Paul. 0:39:01.920 --> 0:39:04.160 I do I want to hear No, I actually I don't. 0:39:10.920 --> 0:39:14.000 I love you, man, And I don't say that like 0:39:14.040 --> 0:39:17.200 I'm trying to be protective of reputationally or anything. 0:39:17.360 --> 0:39:17.480 Like. 0:39:17.520 --> 0:39:21.239 I really loved the man because he was the first 0:39:21.360 --> 0:39:24.000 record executive I ever met, So the whole idea of 0:39:24.080 --> 0:39:27.560 being a record executive. I was heavily influenced by him, 0:39:28.239 --> 0:39:31.839 right and watching him make decisions and kind of how 0:39:31.920 --> 0:39:34.480 and why, and you know some of the things he 0:39:34.480 --> 0:39:36.840 would say to me, you know, say it was really 0:39:36.920 --> 0:39:39.880 it was really a good and he was impressionable. 0:39:40.080 --> 0:39:41.879 But we had a really good relationship. 0:39:42.120 --> 0:39:44.080 Do you remember I was thinking about this today about Dick. 0:39:44.120 --> 0:39:46.560 Do you remember something that you took with you from 0:39:46.719 --> 0:39:48.560 being with him that you learn and something that you said, 0:39:48.920 --> 0:39:50.759 I ain't taking that with me when I do what 0:39:50.800 --> 0:39:50.960 I do. 0:39:51.400 --> 0:39:52.239 Wait, as far as. 0:39:52.200 --> 0:39:54.080 The things I didn't, if you have to hear you 0:39:54.160 --> 0:39:57.479 hang somebody out the window, yeah I don't. 0:39:57.520 --> 0:39:57.839 I didn't. 0:39:58.160 --> 0:40:00.840 If there's a lot I didn't take, okay, you know. 0:40:02.840 --> 0:40:06.960 Answer, Yeah, there's there's some things that I definitely, uh 0:40:07.400 --> 0:40:10.160 took with me. He called me once and he said, 0:40:10.840 --> 0:40:14.719 let me ask you something. Seem to know everything. Why 0:40:14.719 --> 0:40:17.840 are you still living in Cincinnati? I said, it's our hometown. 0:40:18.560 --> 0:40:19.800 You still living in Cincinnati? 0:40:19.840 --> 0:40:22.640 I was living in Cincinnati when we made our first two. 0:40:22.440 --> 0:40:27.640 Albums, right, And he said, you can make more money 0:40:28.600 --> 0:40:32.080 by accident in Los Angeles than you can make on 0:40:32.200 --> 0:40:33.799 purpose in Cincinnati. 0:40:35.800 --> 0:40:36.960 Two weeks I lived in. 0:40:37.040 --> 0:40:41.560 La Oh my god, now I know why you why 0:40:41.640 --> 0:40:43.600 you left? It went to Atlanta. Okay, we're now going 0:40:43.680 --> 0:40:48.400 that far yet, just in. 0:40:48.440 --> 0:40:53.120 That initial period, how are Because the thing is, it's 0:40:53.200 --> 0:40:56.400 like the deal guys never truly left us, because I 0:40:56.480 --> 0:41:01.799 see different combinations of their names as songwriter, y or musicians. 0:41:02.440 --> 0:41:07.919 So how what is what is the adjustment of sort 0:41:07.960 --> 0:41:14.360 of dissolving the deal and you and you and Babyface 0:41:14.400 --> 0:41:19.879 starting your own unit and like it is a church 0:41:19.920 --> 0:41:20.320 and state? 0:41:20.400 --> 0:41:22.200 Do you guys have your own management? 0:41:22.239 --> 0:41:25.880 Your own Like are you now prioritizing working in the 0:41:25.880 --> 0:41:28.200 studio with these artists and then the group later? 0:41:28.480 --> 0:41:31.080 Like how's how's this working out? 0:41:31.320 --> 0:41:33.839 When I think back on it, And maybe I've never 0:41:33.880 --> 0:41:36.719 thought about it this way, but when I think back 0:41:36.760 --> 0:41:41.120 on it, I can see how the other members of 0:41:41.160 --> 0:41:44.560 the group could really be unhappy with the choices that 0:41:44.600 --> 0:41:49.800 we made, right although they ultimately benefited everybody, in that moment, 0:41:49.960 --> 0:41:52.000 I could see how the other members of the group 0:41:52.000 --> 0:41:57.400 weren't very happy because one one of the things was 0:41:58.480 --> 0:42:02.279 they liked Cincinnati. My other guys and it's still my 0:42:02.320 --> 0:42:05.359 friends to this day, right, but they liked Cincinnati, and 0:42:05.560 --> 0:42:08.000 Keny and I didn't. We had no desire to be 0:42:08.760 --> 0:42:12.680 since Cincinnati. And Kenny didn't even like Atlanta that much, right, 0:42:12.719 --> 0:42:15.000 I mean he liked it, but like he didn't he 0:42:15.239 --> 0:42:18.480 didn't live there very long. Uh, he preferred living in 0:42:18.480 --> 0:42:21.919 Los Angeles, and you know, and he was a very 0:42:21.960 --> 0:42:26.120 ambitious and very talented man and is is and you know, 0:42:26.520 --> 0:42:29.440 but the other guys kind of were a little bit 0:42:29.440 --> 0:42:32.759 more homebodies, so they weren't as ambitious. 0:42:33.040 --> 0:42:35.279 Was there an opportunity for them to join the fray? 0:42:35.480 --> 0:42:37.400 Like who's coming with me? Who's coming with me? 0:42:38.239 --> 0:42:38.759 Or was it? 0:42:38.800 --> 0:42:42.480 Sort of like I think after I'm trying to remember 0:42:42.520 --> 0:42:45.040 exactly how it took place, but I feel like after 0:42:45.320 --> 0:42:50.360 the last tour, Yeah, the last tour we did, everybody 0:42:50.440 --> 0:42:53.840 kind of went their separate ways without a conversation Keny 0:42:53.880 --> 0:42:56.880 and I. After the tour was over, we decided to 0:42:56.920 --> 0:43:02.759 move to Atlanta with my was my girlfriend at the time, right, 0:43:03.000 --> 0:43:07.160 And we all decided and Darryl Simmons, who is Kenny's 0:43:07.200 --> 0:43:12.920 best friend and a gally really talented songwriter and producer, Yeah, 0:43:13.040 --> 0:43:17.360 he decided to move to Atlanta with us. And Ko 0:43:17.680 --> 0:43:21.399 went to Atlanta with us, but Carlos and d who 0:43:21.440 --> 0:43:22.080 were our. 0:43:21.960 --> 0:43:24.759 Other lead singers, they went back to Cincinnati. 0:43:25.160 --> 0:43:28.680 Wait a minute, I'm so okay, so worded that you're 0:43:28.680 --> 0:43:33.000 telling the story, because when I was watching a new 0:43:33.040 --> 0:43:37.040 addition headline the Essence Festival, I was sitting there just 0:43:37.080 --> 0:43:41.560 marveling at the fact that the Michael of the group, 0:43:42.200 --> 0:43:45.120 the leader of the group, really didn't get his moment 0:43:45.120 --> 0:43:47.879 in the Sun the way that it should have been, right, 0:43:47.920 --> 0:43:50.359 you know, because even in the way that they craft 0:43:50.400 --> 0:43:53.000 their show, it's literally like just the best mixtape ever 0:43:53.520 --> 0:43:56.439 right there, forty years and you know, not not even 0:43:56.440 --> 0:44:02.000 throwing shape. But yes, Sensitivity was probably the slowest part 0:44:02.040 --> 0:44:04.480 of the night, even though it was a straight up hit, right, 0:44:04.560 --> 0:44:07.719 but no, no, no no, But by that point it was 0:44:07.760 --> 0:44:11.319 like nineteen hits. They already did nineteen hits. It was like, damn, 0:44:11.320 --> 0:44:13.880 I gotta go to bathroom sensitivity. All right, right, let 0:44:13.920 --> 0:44:16.000 me take you like sensitivity as the time, it was like, 0:44:16.000 --> 0:44:17.600 all right, let me sit down because I know poisons 0:44:17.600 --> 0:44:18.160 about to come up. 0:44:18.160 --> 0:44:20.040 I gotta rest my linight right right. 0:44:20.160 --> 0:44:23.280 But I was like I was trying to wonder in history, 0:44:23.440 --> 0:44:28.320 was there ever a case where the lead singers sort 0:44:28.360 --> 0:44:31.200 of faded in the background while everyone else in the 0:44:31.280 --> 0:44:35.239 unit got to do that? So I always wanted to 0:44:35.239 --> 0:44:39.000 know what did what did they do once like in 0:44:39.120 --> 0:44:42.880 nineteen eighty nine, nineteen ninety, like, did they try their 0:44:42.880 --> 0:44:43.439 hand that song? 0:44:43.520 --> 0:44:44.840 Righted? Did they try producing? 0:44:45.560 --> 0:44:48.960 They made a couple of records as the deal because 0:44:50.320 --> 0:44:53.040 although we all went our separate ways, they did keep 0:44:53.080 --> 0:44:56.839 the unit together and they toured some. Uh, they did 0:44:56.880 --> 0:45:01.760 some dates in Japan, and they did a few dates 0:45:01.760 --> 0:45:05.359 here and there. They would work on weekends at least 0:45:05.400 --> 0:45:08.640 that's what I understand. And they went out and found 0:45:08.640 --> 0:45:11.360 a couple of guys that could do the job, you know, 0:45:11.960 --> 0:45:12.800 and they worked. 0:45:12.800 --> 0:45:18.640 They've been working. But they also they took ninety five jobs. 0:45:19.120 --> 0:45:22.520 Yeah, but then D got very lucky because d D 0:45:23.000 --> 0:45:26.080 D Bristol, he actually is the guy that wrote the 0:45:26.160 --> 0:45:28.920 chorus I only think of you on two occasions that 0:45:29.160 --> 0:45:29.759 day and night. 0:45:29.920 --> 0:45:33.719 He wrote that, so years later Mariah Carey. 0:45:33.560 --> 0:45:38.279 Used it on We Belong Together, so he saw money 0:45:39.000 --> 0:45:39.920 money still comes in. 0:45:40.120 --> 0:45:49.960 Yeah, just in general, between nineteen eighty seven and nineteen 0:45:50.040 --> 0:45:52.880 ninety one, I mean, god damn. 0:45:52.960 --> 0:45:53.120 You. 0:45:54.640 --> 0:46:02.000 Had at least like sixty plus hits top forty hits. 0:46:03.360 --> 0:46:06.520 What is like is what is the not even the 0:46:06.560 --> 0:46:09.640 division of labor, but just in terms of that much. 0:46:09.600 --> 0:46:12.600 Volume, what does your life look like? Right? Yeah? 0:46:12.680 --> 0:46:16.840 Like how to me? Are you bespoking these songs? Is 0:46:16.880 --> 0:46:20.600 it like Jermaine comes to town and you're like talking 0:46:20.680 --> 0:46:23.040 to him. Okay, here's a song called Don't Take It Personal. 0:46:23.840 --> 0:46:26.120 You're meeting TLC for the first time. It's like, okay, 0:46:26.120 --> 0:46:29.719 well let me see a baby baby. Like are these 0:46:29.760 --> 0:46:32.160 songs sort of like in the stash somewhere in the 0:46:32.239 --> 0:46:34.120 back and you're like, would you like this? 0:46:34.160 --> 0:46:34.799 Would you like this? 0:46:35.040 --> 0:46:38.719 Or are you custom making these songs? Some of those 0:46:38.719 --> 0:46:42.560 songs were custom made? Some of those songs. You gotta remember, 0:46:42.600 --> 0:46:44.880 first of all, Kenny Evans is one of the most 0:46:44.920 --> 0:46:48.759 prolific songwriters ever, so he has a war chest of 0:46:48.880 --> 0:46:52.520 material that's unreal, Like I you know, sometimes I want 0:46:52.560 --> 0:46:54.359 to call and say, man, let me just go through 0:46:54.360 --> 0:46:59.480 the tapes, like really, because he's so prolific. That's that's 0:46:59.520 --> 0:47:05.040 the first thing. So he always had something. But then 0:47:05.320 --> 0:47:09.840 when we like if it were Bobby Brown, sometimes we 0:47:09.800 --> 0:47:12.279 would start things from scratch, Whitney Houston, we would start 0:47:12.320 --> 0:47:15.640 songs from scratch where we were thinking about the artists. 0:47:16.440 --> 0:47:18.040 But then every now and then he would pull a 0:47:18.080 --> 0:47:20.160 song out that he'd had for a long time, and 0:47:20.719 --> 0:47:23.000 I'm Ready he gave to Tevin Campbell, which is one 0:47:23.040 --> 0:47:24.840 of my favorite songs, and it had been around for 0:47:24.920 --> 0:47:26.160 like ten years or better. 0:47:26.480 --> 0:47:28.360 I think he met her. He might have had that 0:47:28.400 --> 0:47:29.239 song when I met him. 0:47:29.360 --> 0:47:34.319 Seriously, like I remember that long ago, like in the 0:47:34.360 --> 0:47:39.360 first the first chapter of our relationships as musicians and friends. 0:47:39.400 --> 0:47:42.759 I remember hearing I'm Ready on a demo, so there 0:47:42.840 --> 0:47:46.400 was a backlog of material, but then we would work 0:47:46.440 --> 0:47:50.520 on things. End of the Road was I don't think 0:47:50.640 --> 0:47:52.879 End of the Road was written for boys to man, 0:47:53.000 --> 0:47:54.960 but once it was done, it was pretty obvious. 0:47:55.040 --> 0:47:56.600 So I knew who to call. 0:47:57.920 --> 0:48:01.040 Or I remember, you know, how to match a song 0:48:01.120 --> 0:48:03.040 to an artist? I don't know I. 0:48:02.960 --> 0:48:07.200 Don't really know, but I think that that's what A 0:48:07.360 --> 0:48:11.480 and R really is. It's artist and repertoire, right, finding 0:48:11.480 --> 0:48:14.080 the artist and the repertoire to match it when it's 0:48:14.120 --> 0:48:18.160 particularly when it's people that maybe either they don't write songs, 0:48:18.360 --> 0:48:22.600 or they collaborate, or they accept outside songs, and we 0:48:22.880 --> 0:48:26.920 tended to work with people who accepted outside material. We 0:48:27.000 --> 0:48:29.600 didn't like it that much working with people who could 0:48:29.640 --> 0:48:33.719 also write, because it always changed how we would write. Right, 0:48:34.600 --> 0:48:37.000 And we had a thing that we liked to do, 0:48:37.239 --> 0:48:40.480 and we thought of ourselves as we thought we were. 0:48:40.360 --> 0:48:43.160 The deal and whoever was singing was the lead singer. 0:48:43.520 --> 0:48:46.200 Right, But it was like every song was I'm your 0:48:46.239 --> 0:48:48.440 Baby tonight is the deal feature in Whitney Houston. That's 0:48:48.440 --> 0:48:51.000 how we always looked at right, or my My Mine 0:48:51.040 --> 0:48:54.680 is the deal feature Johnny gill or you know, because 0:48:54.800 --> 0:48:57.759 me and Kenny and Ko and Darryll basically played on 0:48:57.840 --> 0:49:01.719 everything you know or programmed or how we want to 0:49:01.719 --> 0:49:02.120 look at it. 0:49:02.160 --> 0:49:03.680 We created all of the. 0:49:03.719 --> 0:49:07.640 Music for it, and we didn't really like tampering. So 0:49:07.680 --> 0:49:10.680 I remember once we were doing Jermaine Jackson and we 0:49:10.680 --> 0:49:14.200 we finished some records and then he brought in his 0:49:14.400 --> 0:49:18.560 keyboard player to like reproduce all the songs, and we 0:49:18.560 --> 0:49:22.319 were like, what's this and the dudes and and I 0:49:22.320 --> 0:49:24.719 forget his name. Now he's really talented, but it was 0:49:24.800 --> 0:49:27.640 just changing everything, and it was it was like, now 0:49:27.680 --> 0:49:28.399 this doesn't work. 0:49:28.640 --> 0:49:31.160 No, no, I said, we'll keep that solo. 0:49:31.239 --> 0:49:31.520 We did. 0:49:31.600 --> 0:49:32.960 That's the best we could do the rest of it. 0:49:33.800 --> 0:49:38.560 You know, at work at Saturday Night Live, whenever comedians 0:49:38.960 --> 0:49:41.640 stand up comedians host the show, they try to bring 0:49:41.680 --> 0:49:44.560 their team in to try to write for them right, 0:49:45.120 --> 0:49:48.160 and it never works. It's always best when you just 0:49:48.200 --> 0:49:51.600 trust the system and let the producers or let the 0:49:51.640 --> 0:49:57.560 writers do it. So for that initial gust of Eli 0:49:57.719 --> 0:50:02.160 face La faced them, what song. 0:50:03.360 --> 0:50:08.000 Almost didn't make it? Oh? Man, let me see at 0:50:08.400 --> 0:50:12.319 least a staple that we know. I don't know. 0:50:12.360 --> 0:50:14.640 I think we were way too greedy and ambitious. 0:50:14.640 --> 0:50:17.160 Man, we're trying to get everything out, Like I don't 0:50:17.239 --> 0:50:18.560 I don't recall that one. 0:50:18.920 --> 0:50:20.600 I don't have a good answer to that one. 0:50:21.080 --> 0:50:26.520 Okay, you guys produced Pebbles, and you also produced Karen 0:50:26.520 --> 0:50:34.400 White's first record, right, first album, Amazing Results, second album? 0:50:35.719 --> 0:50:36.880 Why didn't Karen White? 0:50:36.960 --> 0:50:39.760 Now I knew at the time she's dating Terry Lewis. 0:50:40.400 --> 0:50:44.560 Why didn't you guys work on the second Karen White record? 0:50:45.320 --> 0:50:46.600 Or is that a Benny Bendina thing? 0:50:48.040 --> 0:50:52.640 Oh No, that definitely wasn't a been anything. 0:50:53.560 --> 0:51:00.560 Wait a minute, it was. 0:51:02.840 --> 0:51:09.000 Okay, wait wait, let me ask fante. For the life 0:51:09.000 --> 0:51:11.319 of you, can you sing the first And I know 0:51:11.400 --> 0:51:13.279 jam Is gonna kill me for this, but even I 0:51:13.320 --> 0:51:16.160 gotten to admit this. Can you name can you sing 0:51:16.200 --> 0:51:17.400 the first verse of a Romantic? 0:51:18.760 --> 0:51:21.680 No? Dude, do you know that Romantic actually went to 0:51:21.760 --> 0:51:22.919 number one? Yeah? 0:51:22.920 --> 0:51:24.719 I believe that was on the radio hard though. 0:51:24.840 --> 0:51:28.160 Wow, Yeah it was number one hop hit. 0:51:28.640 --> 0:51:34.759 Yes, look at space right now? Exactly, yeah, exactly, I 0:51:34.800 --> 0:51:41.600 remember the host exactly. 0:51:41.680 --> 0:51:49.279 Y'all all singing the wrong Romantic. My whole point is that, yes, 0:51:49.400 --> 0:51:52.520 even though they managed to get a number one pop 0:51:52.600 --> 0:51:54.040 single off that Karen. 0:51:53.800 --> 0:51:57.839 White record, there was no impact. I couldn't name no 0:51:58.200 --> 0:52:00.120 cut for the life of me. And my thing is like, 0:52:00.200 --> 0:52:02.360 if it's not broken. 0:52:02.360 --> 0:52:06.480 Now again, my assumption is she married Terry Lewis, so 0:52:06.520 --> 0:52:09.760 it's sort of like just bring your husband the workday 0:52:09.840 --> 0:52:10.360 or whatever. 0:52:10.920 --> 0:52:12.480 But I wouldn't. 0:52:14.880 --> 0:52:17.240 No, I think it was I think you nailed it, okay, 0:52:17.320 --> 0:52:19.960 So for entertainment, I have to tell you this story 0:52:20.080 --> 0:52:22.440 just for entertainment's sake, and I'll go quickly. 0:52:22.880 --> 0:52:23.800 No, we love this. 0:52:24.000 --> 0:52:26.080 So we're in New Orleans where you are now. There 0:52:26.160 --> 0:52:29.480 used to be a show called the Budweiser Superfessed. Yes, yes, 0:52:31.560 --> 0:52:35.040 we're on the tool, thank you, And we're on the 0:52:35.080 --> 0:52:40.759 package doing our final tour with two occasions, and Pebbles 0:52:40.800 --> 0:52:43.040 is with us. She's not on the tour, but she's 0:52:43.040 --> 0:52:45.640 hanging out with me. Her tour ended, she's just hanging 0:52:45.680 --> 0:52:51.040 with me. Benny Medina invites us to a Warner Music 0:52:51.840 --> 0:52:55.520 conference that they're having in New Orleans, right, and all 0:52:55.560 --> 0:52:59.520 the labels like Warner Electra, Atlantic, all the labels and 0:52:59.600 --> 0:53:02.680 all the big executives who I didn't know at the time, 0:53:02.880 --> 0:53:06.600 Steve Ross and Bob Kratz Now and David Geffen and 0:53:06.680 --> 0:53:10.280 Quincy Jones and Doug Morris and Jimmy I all these 0:53:11.000 --> 0:53:13.320 I didn't know any of them anyway. So Benny invites 0:53:13.400 --> 0:53:17.560 us because we happen to have one of their hottest records, 0:53:17.960 --> 0:53:19.360 Superwoman with Karen. 0:53:19.120 --> 0:53:19.839 White at the time. 0:53:20.400 --> 0:53:24.560 So he invites Babyface and I to the conference. 0:53:25.080 --> 0:53:28.399 So we're like, great. So we go to. 0:53:28.400 --> 0:53:31.680 The conference and we walk in and it's baby Face 0:53:31.960 --> 0:53:37.400 Pebbles and myself and I don't know record company politics 0:53:37.520 --> 0:53:38.520 or anything like that. 0:53:38.840 --> 0:53:40.640 Benny comes running over to us and. 0:53:40.560 --> 0:53:45.239 Says, I invited you, and I invited you, and he 0:53:45.280 --> 0:53:47.040 points to Pebbles and he says. 0:53:46.880 --> 0:53:48.960 But I did not invite her. 0:53:50.000 --> 0:53:54.480 And I'm like, well, if she can't come, then I 0:53:54.480 --> 0:53:57.279 don't want to be here because and I don't get it. 0:53:57.400 --> 0:54:01.120 I don't And we turn around and leave, and we 0:54:01.280 --> 0:54:03.359 and and we fall out, and Ben and I don't 0:54:03.360 --> 0:54:07.319 speak for a decade, right, wow. And ten years later 0:54:07.360 --> 0:54:09.560 he told me it was because la I was seating 0:54:09.600 --> 0:54:12.879 you guys with Karen White and it's her moment and 0:54:12.920 --> 0:54:15.960 her competition is Pebbles, and you bring Pebbles in and 0:54:16.000 --> 0:54:19.319 you know, at the same table, like and I was like, oh, 0:54:19.360 --> 0:54:20.880 I thought you wuld just being an asshole. 0:54:20.880 --> 0:54:23.719 I didn't realize I was. I was. I was wrong here. 0:54:24.120 --> 0:54:24.759 I didn't know. 0:54:25.560 --> 0:54:26.200 I didn't know. 0:54:26.400 --> 0:54:29.280 So so I didn't speak to Benny for a decade 0:54:29.360 --> 0:54:30.960 and we never worked with Karen again. 0:54:31.680 --> 0:54:31.839 Yeah. 0:54:31.920 --> 0:54:36.160 Wow, finally an answer I'm satisfied with, be cause it's like, 0:54:36.560 --> 0:54:40.680 why ruin the formula, why ruin the formula exactly? 0:54:41.040 --> 0:54:44.560 And we loved working with Karen, like loved it and 0:54:44.600 --> 0:54:45.160 we had. 0:54:45.000 --> 0:54:45.799 Fun doing it. 0:54:45.880 --> 0:54:46.080 Right. 0:54:46.200 --> 0:54:47.760 She was fun. She could sing. 0:54:48.120 --> 0:54:50.360 She had a great tone, great voice, and she was 0:54:50.600 --> 0:54:52.480 like a real musician type of singer. 0:54:52.880 --> 0:54:55.680 You know, she had some you know, she knew music. 0:54:55.800 --> 0:54:59.040 She knew about, you know, sliding the family Stone, things 0:54:59.120 --> 0:55:01.840 that we liked, she knew about. By the way, the 0:55:01.960 --> 0:55:05.720 end of Superwoman ever so slightly like Purple Rain. 0:55:07.200 --> 0:55:18.560 With the strings and the slightly nice the stories. I like, 0:55:18.680 --> 0:55:19.000 got that. 0:55:21.000 --> 0:55:24.919 Okay, So you know we were first introduced to you 0:55:25.120 --> 0:55:28.839 as kind of solar house producers. 0:55:29.360 --> 0:55:32.320 Yes, one how did that phase? 0:55:32.440 --> 0:55:36.719 And it almost looked like you had a universal mc 0:55:36.840 --> 0:55:40.000 A situation about to happen. And then the next thing, 0:55:40.040 --> 0:55:46.160 I know, everything's happening on Arista. Now when you're doing 0:55:46.239 --> 0:55:49.320 a roster, when you're when you're producing for these artists, 0:55:50.440 --> 0:55:51.920 is it a contractual thing? 0:55:51.960 --> 0:55:54.160 Are you allowed to do other people or is it like, 0:55:55.560 --> 0:55:56.000 once you. 0:55:56.120 --> 0:56:00.600 Start the Arista phase, you must stick to Aristat and arrist. 0:56:00.480 --> 0:56:03.680 Only it wasn't exactly that. It started out that we 0:56:03.680 --> 0:56:09.080 were solar in house producers for sure, and after after 0:56:09.320 --> 0:56:12.560 the Whispers took off and the deal and Babyface had 0:56:12.640 --> 0:56:18.280 his little Silas. We became friends with Lowell and Cheryl 0:56:18.320 --> 0:56:21.520 Dickerson at both of them and Jeryl Busby. We became 0:56:21.600 --> 0:56:25.040 friends with the MCA crew and we went over and 0:56:25.080 --> 0:56:28.120 started helping them. We did the Mac Band for them. 0:56:28.400 --> 0:56:30.360 One of my favorite songs we ever did was Roses 0:56:30.360 --> 0:56:34.839 Already Yeah and feel Underrated. It feels like no one 0:56:34.880 --> 0:56:38.080 knows it, you know, but I really dig that. And 0:56:38.160 --> 0:56:40.879 we ended up doing Pebbles for them, and he did 0:56:40.880 --> 0:56:46.520 the Boys as well, and we did the Boys, and 0:56:46.719 --> 0:56:50.399 later when it became Motown, we did Boys to Men. 0:56:50.880 --> 0:56:54.239 No label CEO is making you guys sound an exclusive 0:56:54.280 --> 0:56:56.920 contract to stay, which is like it never occurred to 0:56:57.200 --> 0:57:00.560 Dick Griffy to say, you guys are my house only. 0:57:01.440 --> 0:57:04.440 I think I did sign a contract with with Solar 0:57:04.520 --> 0:57:07.840 for to be an exclusive in house producer, but I 0:57:07.880 --> 0:57:10.439 never got I never got the money, so I never 0:57:10.480 --> 0:57:14.680 honored it. Okay, cool, Yeah, you know, Uh, he didn't 0:57:14.719 --> 0:57:16.080 hold me to it. I didn't hold him to it, 0:57:16.720 --> 0:57:18.040 and it wasn't for that much money. 0:57:18.640 --> 0:57:18.840 Yeah. 0:57:18.920 --> 0:57:21.560 So so we worked with with Louis for a while 0:57:21.600 --> 0:57:24.240 and then Benny Medina called. No, someone called us and 0:57:24.320 --> 0:57:26.960 asked us to meet Benny Medina. So we went over 0:57:27.000 --> 0:57:29.400 and we met him and we said who's on your roster? 0:57:30.000 --> 0:57:32.800 And he named al Chi Role. We were like, nah, 0:57:34.200 --> 0:57:36.840 Chaka Khan, who was my favorite singer. But I was like, 0:57:37.400 --> 0:57:39.040 I don't know how we could do any better than 0:57:39.080 --> 0:57:42.480 I feel for you. No, And then he said Karen 0:57:42.520 --> 0:57:45.280 White and I remember hearing her on the radio singing 0:57:45.360 --> 0:57:48.600 these are the facts of we and I was like, oh, 0:57:48.680 --> 0:57:51.120 we could do something with that, right, And so that's 0:57:51.160 --> 0:57:54.840 how it worked out. So, yes, we were supposed to 0:57:54.920 --> 0:57:58.600 do Leface Records with MCA. 0:57:59.560 --> 0:58:00.680 It wasn't universal yet. 0:58:00.720 --> 0:58:05.840 It was MCA and Irving azof ran the company and 0:58:05.560 --> 0:58:09.640 uh Gerald Buzzby had already departed to start Motown to 0:58:09.720 --> 0:58:13.600 take over Motown, and uh Louiel was still there. 0:58:13.640 --> 0:58:17.120 Also, what was Lo Solace Junior? Like just as an executive, 0:58:17.480 --> 0:58:18.400 a lot of energy. 0:58:18.440 --> 0:58:21.080 He knew his records like you know, he was a 0:58:21.200 --> 0:58:23.720 he was a DJ too, you know. Uh, and he 0:58:23.800 --> 0:58:26.560 remixed every song that came out, like every single song 0:58:26.600 --> 0:58:28.960 that came out at that time, he would remix. 0:58:29.040 --> 0:58:31.840 He would remix guy records anything. 0:58:32.560 --> 0:58:32.840 I thought. 0:58:32.840 --> 0:58:35.400 He was just slapping his name on those productions. I 0:58:35.440 --> 0:58:37.720 didn't realize that he had a crew. We had a 0:58:37.720 --> 0:58:38.360 team of people. 0:58:38.360 --> 0:58:41.880 He had an engineer, he had a programmer, and it 0:58:41.920 --> 0:58:43.680 was him and he would take all the records that 0:58:43.720 --> 0:58:45.720 he liked and he would take him in and do the 0:58:45.720 --> 0:58:48.920 remix of them, you know, And and sometimes they'd be 0:58:48.960 --> 0:58:51.280 harder when he's done with them, like not every time, 0:58:51.320 --> 0:58:53.120 but sometimes they would be hard. But he was a 0:58:53.120 --> 0:58:56.640 lot of fun, really competitive and at that time and 0:58:56.960 --> 0:59:00.880 in black music in LA they were like these three 0:59:01.880 --> 0:59:06.600 superstar an R guys. One of them was Liuil Silas Junior. 0:59:07.080 --> 0:59:10.080 The other one was John McClain who was at A 0:59:10.200 --> 0:59:14.240 and M. That's our dream interview. We can't find him 0:59:14.240 --> 0:59:17.240 for he's the greatest. And then there was Bennie Medina 0:59:17.280 --> 0:59:19.320 who was at Warner right. But these are like the 0:59:19.400 --> 0:59:23.240 three stars in town and you know, and they I 0:59:23.320 --> 0:59:25.400 became friends with all of them and it was really great. 0:59:25.400 --> 0:59:28.920 But Louis was great man. He was fun. He was great, 0:59:29.000 --> 0:59:29.600 great dude. 0:59:30.480 --> 0:59:31.120 At the time. 0:59:31.240 --> 0:59:34.520 When I first I think when I heard, uh, Donnie 0:59:34.520 --> 0:59:37.280 seems to make the announcement that Whitney Houston is going 0:59:37.360 --> 0:59:41.560 to work with Elien face, I got slightly nervous. 0:59:42.040 --> 0:59:44.800 Wow, rightly, because. 0:59:44.480 --> 0:59:48.120 The thing is that, you know, the Whitney train was, 0:59:48.360 --> 0:59:52.320 you know, and I'm not saying anything that that isn't facts. 0:59:52.520 --> 0:59:56.080 You know, she definitely it was. It was overkilled. 0:59:56.320 --> 0:59:58.480 We all know about the booing up, the Soul Train 0:59:58.520 --> 0:59:59.960 awards and all those things. 1:00:00.360 --> 1:00:01.960 Right, And. 1:00:03.160 --> 1:00:07.360 I often wondered if placing her in your hands was 1:00:07.400 --> 1:00:12.160 almost a setup for a disaster, because the thing is like, 1:00:12.200 --> 1:00:16.040 the first album sells twelve million, and the second album 1:00:16.080 --> 1:00:21.360 sells fifteen million, So there's like, in meeting with Clive Davis, 1:00:21.520 --> 1:00:25.520 is he saying to yourself like, don't fuck up, like 1:00:26.080 --> 1:00:30.600 y'all better give me another ten to fifteen million? And 1:00:30.880 --> 1:00:33.680 how how was the general what was the general consistence 1:00:34.920 --> 1:00:37.960 when I'm your baby, Team night only did again, I 1:00:37.960 --> 1:00:41.840 don't consider it fil It did a solid five million, right, 1:00:41.920 --> 1:00:44.480 that's right, But it wasn't what the first two albums were. 1:00:44.560 --> 1:00:46.520 And actually I'm glad it wasn't what the first two 1:00:46.520 --> 1:00:49.200 records were. But just can you walk us through that 1:00:49.240 --> 1:00:51.440 whole What was the what was the pressure? 1:00:51.800 --> 1:00:54.160 I think that didn't feel pressure, first of all, did 1:00:54.200 --> 1:00:58.520 not feel any pressure, didn't approach it that way. He 1:00:58.640 --> 1:01:03.640 was very clear that Whitney had a black problem. So 1:01:03.960 --> 1:01:08.080 his goal wasn't I want to sell fifteen million. His 1:01:08.280 --> 1:01:11.960 goal was ingratiate my artists with the black community, please 1:01:12.320 --> 1:01:15.320 like stand beside her, work with her, because they don't 1:01:15.360 --> 1:01:21.840 think she's cool, right, And so success was simply black 1:01:21.920 --> 1:01:23.280 people saying, okay with me. 1:01:23.480 --> 1:01:26.040 She need a jam, right, that's all of us. 1:01:26.360 --> 1:01:29.920 That's all of us. And so we didn't feel any pressure. 1:01:30.760 --> 1:01:33.320 And we knew we couldn't. I'm being honest. We knew 1:01:33.360 --> 1:01:35.959 we couldn't make those kinds of records, like those those 1:01:36.000 --> 1:01:39.680 big records that she had, Like well, yeah, okay, I 1:01:39.760 --> 1:01:42.040 get that, you know, like we didn't write like that, 1:01:42.080 --> 1:01:45.240 we didn't produce like that. I think through a ballot 1:01:45.240 --> 1:01:49.400 you could have reached those heights, probably right. But my 1:01:49.520 --> 1:01:53.919 thing is that in that time in nineteen ninety when 1:01:54.000 --> 1:01:57.560 you jack swing is going GGA and you guys are 1:01:57.600 --> 1:02:00.560 actually the proprietors. I mean, the entire Don't Be Cool 1:02:00.680 --> 1:02:03.200 record is a tutorial. 1:02:02.720 --> 1:02:07.000 And you jack swing them right, But next to the 1:02:07.880 --> 1:02:11.760 eyes of a Stranger record, I was so confused as 1:02:11.840 --> 1:02:17.240 to why a shuffle song was her first statement and 1:02:17.680 --> 1:02:20.120 claiming her throne. 1:02:20.640 --> 1:02:24.480 But it worked. Yeah, it was perfect. 1:02:24.640 --> 1:02:28.120 Okay, yes, I think it worked because the powers that 1:02:28.160 --> 1:02:30.880 be made it work. Everyone knew who La and Babyface were. 1:02:31.160 --> 1:02:33.160 Everyone knew who Whitney Houston was, so it was like. 1:02:33.200 --> 1:02:35.920 And it was a great song. Let's be it was 1:02:35.960 --> 1:02:38.360 a great song. Yeah, yeah, like this ship was a 1:02:38.440 --> 1:02:42.080 jay okay, but it was just an unusual risky. 1:02:41.800 --> 1:02:44.440 Song Okay, all right, risky. 1:02:44.920 --> 1:02:48.720 It was risky, like because could DJs have played that 1:02:48.720 --> 1:02:53.120 in the nightclub like that? That level of shuffle and 1:02:53.200 --> 1:02:56.320 twelve eight meter was like HARKing back to like Luther 1:02:56.400 --> 1:03:00.000 Vandroz's bad Boy having a party, which it's more barbarians. 1:03:00.120 --> 1:03:02.480 You watch out now, like. 1:03:04.160 --> 1:03:11.560 Not every little step, not on our own, not girlfriendad No, No, 1:03:11.600 --> 1:03:14.880 it's a risk. In the hindsight, I will say it's 1:03:14.880 --> 1:03:19.640 the best move because I love when risks work. But 1:03:20.000 --> 1:03:21.720 damn yo, like whoy. 1:03:21.680 --> 1:03:23.000 We also you know what else? 1:03:23.000 --> 1:03:25.840 It was we had played ourselves out, like not to 1:03:25.880 --> 1:03:29.800 the public maybe, but we had played ourselves out with 1:03:29.880 --> 1:03:33.680 that sound, and we we had moved to Atlanta and 1:03:33.800 --> 1:03:37.120 we were experimenting because we were trying to rEFInd ourselves 1:03:37.120 --> 1:03:40.360 and we couldn't do the down my heart again. We 1:03:40.360 --> 1:03:43.680 couldn't do you know, we just couldn't do it anymore, 1:03:43.720 --> 1:03:46.880 like we had done it so much on so many songs, 1:03:46.920 --> 1:03:50.640 Like every song had had that that kind of groove 1:03:50.840 --> 1:03:53.400 on it, and it was it just got tired, you 1:03:53.440 --> 1:03:56.680 know for us. And so I'm here Baby to Night 1:03:56.960 --> 1:03:59.680 was it was. It was a little bit of us 1:04:00.040 --> 1:04:02.960 reinventing us as much as it was trying to give 1:04:03.000 --> 1:04:05.200 Whitney Houston something that we thought was. 1:04:05.920 --> 1:04:08.560 That I would have thought Susan would have probably well, 1:04:08.600 --> 1:04:12.200 if Susan didn't have a direct, proper nown attached to it, 1:04:12.800 --> 1:04:15.120 I would have thought, like my name is not Susan 1:04:15.160 --> 1:04:15.920 would have been. 1:04:17.000 --> 1:04:19.240 Right, Yeah, But I think that was what she needed. 1:04:19.240 --> 1:04:21.360 It reminded me a lot of Jimmy Jam's story of 1:04:21.400 --> 1:04:24.600 like doing with Janet and like, you know, if was 1:04:24.640 --> 1:04:27.080 the one on the Janet album, that was the one 1:04:27.120 --> 1:04:29.800 that was like Janet the gimme just you know go, 1:04:30.240 --> 1:04:32.400 but that's the way Love Golds was the one that's like, 1:04:32.440 --> 1:04:35.960 ohle ship, I mean it's you know, it's a different thing, 1:04:36.240 --> 1:04:39.320 you know, And that's what that was for me. 1:04:40.800 --> 1:04:41.640 First, Let's turn it. 1:04:41.600 --> 1:04:44.200 Around and to be honest, not to be that radio 1:04:44.280 --> 1:04:46.960 girl us this old you know logic, but they both 1:04:47.000 --> 1:04:50.160 sound like more female records like I'm Your Baby to Night, 1:04:50.160 --> 1:04:52.880 it's way more female, just like Janet. 1:04:52.960 --> 1:04:55.040 Yeah, it's just it's just when heard. 1:04:55.080 --> 1:04:56.640 And it was like, I was really proud of it. 1:04:56.960 --> 1:04:59.160 I was so proud of that record when we finished it, 1:04:59.160 --> 1:05:01.920 because it was we had never done a shuffle, we 1:05:02.360 --> 1:05:05.920 hadn't did it with no songs like that, and I 1:05:06.000 --> 1:05:08.040 was proud of I was just proud of it, and 1:05:08.120 --> 1:05:09.640 it didn't matter to me. 1:05:11.160 --> 1:05:12.320 The success of it. 1:05:12.440 --> 1:05:14.840 And I know that sounds like I'm being a little 1:05:14.880 --> 1:05:18.880 bit frivolous about it, but it was more like, can 1:05:18.960 --> 1:05:22.080 we tackle Whitney Houston and do something with Whitney that 1:05:22.120 --> 1:05:24.600 hasn't been done already because we can't do what she's 1:05:24.640 --> 1:05:27.840 done better than she's done it, So can we do 1:05:28.040 --> 1:05:32.000 something that's just our take on it? And we did 1:05:32.040 --> 1:05:36.960 that successfully and I was very happy with it. 1:05:37.320 --> 1:05:39.000 And don't even lie, I really do like the drum 1:05:39.080 --> 1:05:39.760 feels on it. 1:05:42.320 --> 1:05:46.760 In hindsight, I think it's a great normalizing. It normalized her, 1:05:47.320 --> 1:05:51.360 made her relatable and down the earth, and you know, 1:05:51.560 --> 1:05:54.040 because the joints I liked on the first record were 1:05:54.040 --> 1:05:57.680 like the Sheep records and that that's what man, and 1:05:57.880 --> 1:06:01.880 it didn't happen. It didn't have any sugar pop on it, 1:06:02.040 --> 1:06:06.439 which right, I'm glad. We had a little problem that 1:06:06.760 --> 1:06:09.160 we never discussed. I never talked to Kenny about it. 1:06:09.200 --> 1:06:13.160 But we did Whitney and we did Michael, and our 1:06:13.200 --> 1:06:16.000 Michael stuff never came out because we couldn't nail it. 1:06:16.520 --> 1:06:18.880 We spent a lot of time with Michael and we 1:06:18.960 --> 1:06:21.640 just couldn't nail it. And we spent a lot of 1:06:21.640 --> 1:06:24.680 time with Whitney and we were able to get a 1:06:24.760 --> 1:06:28.720 little bit off. But for some reason, those big stars, 1:06:29.040 --> 1:06:32.120 because that wasn't our thing. Our thing was the artist 1:06:32.160 --> 1:06:35.160 of our generation. Like that's what we were great at. 1:06:35.240 --> 1:06:37.840 If we were great at anything, it was like, let's 1:06:37.840 --> 1:06:40.640 work with Bobby Brown, you know, let's work with Pebbles, 1:06:40.680 --> 1:06:43.800 Let's do Babyface, let's do you know, Karen White, Let's 1:06:43.840 --> 1:06:48.600 do our crew after seven even like our crew. But 1:06:48.680 --> 1:06:51.320 when we went outside of our circle and tried to 1:06:51.360 --> 1:06:55.000 do those superstars, the truth is we did not nail it. 1:06:55.320 --> 1:06:56.600 We did not nail it. 1:06:56.680 --> 1:06:59.640 Now, we got something off with Whitney and we developed 1:06:59.640 --> 1:07:02.160 an in were out of a relationship with her. That 1:07:02.200 --> 1:07:05.520 would last for many years, but none of those. It 1:07:05.560 --> 1:07:09.240 didn't resemble the success that we'd had, not sound wise, 1:07:09.320 --> 1:07:12.520 not signature wise, not impact wise. And it was the 1:07:12.520 --> 1:07:14.520 first and you're right because it was the first time 1:07:14.560 --> 1:07:18.400 that you could criticize whether it was actually the right thing. 1:07:19.200 --> 1:07:21.400 And after that we did Michael. 1:07:22.400 --> 1:07:24.040 I mean, we couldn't even get out of the studio 1:07:24.120 --> 1:07:28.200 with a song man. And we knew how to write, 1:07:28.760 --> 1:07:31.080 and we knew how to produce, but there was something 1:07:31.160 --> 1:07:34.600 about being in that room with Michael that we just 1:07:34.920 --> 1:07:39.600 were overshooting it and trying too hard and just could 1:07:39.760 --> 1:07:42.200 not get any nothing felt natural. 1:07:47.320 --> 1:07:49.560 So how hard was it to walk away from the 1:07:49.640 --> 1:07:54.680 dangerous record knowing that damn we couldn't do it. 1:07:55.160 --> 1:07:57.160 We just knew it, Like when we went home, when 1:07:57.160 --> 1:07:59.360 we left the studio after being in there for a month, 1:08:00.120 --> 1:08:00.960 and when we were. 1:08:00.960 --> 1:08:05.160 Oh wow, it was a month. Yeah, and one song. No. 1:08:05.520 --> 1:08:10.680 We attempted to write several songs and he and he recorded, 1:08:11.520 --> 1:08:14.760 He recorded background vocals on one, never finished it, and 1:08:14.800 --> 1:08:17.360 he completed one, never mixed it. 1:08:18.000 --> 1:08:20.160 The Slave to the Rhythm song right, Slave to the Rhythm. 1:08:20.320 --> 1:08:23.680 Yeah, So did anything happen to those other songs that 1:08:23.720 --> 1:08:24.519 were meant for him. 1:08:25.000 --> 1:08:26.720 No, they're just sitting. 1:08:26.640 --> 1:08:31.440 There, sitting somewhere. I think they might be in my vault. 1:08:31.760 --> 1:08:33.519 I think it might be in my vault because that's 1:08:33.520 --> 1:08:35.479 where I found Slave to the Rhythm that you know, 1:08:35.680 --> 1:08:38.439 I because we didn't do Slave to the Rhythm with Sony. 1:08:38.479 --> 1:08:40.360 We did that with Michael. We didn't do it as 1:08:40.760 --> 1:08:43.760 a higher fight of record label. That was a relationship 1:08:43.920 --> 1:08:47.160 just between us and Michael. Uh So we all kept 1:08:47.200 --> 1:08:48.120 we kept our tapes. 1:08:48.520 --> 1:08:51.479 So was that a teachable lesson in or make you 1:08:51.600 --> 1:08:53.479 leary of those A list stars? 1:08:53.520 --> 1:08:53.600 Like? 1:08:53.640 --> 1:08:57.320 Because I'm certain by that point everybody was calling you like, 1:08:57.560 --> 1:08:58.200 who did you? 1:08:58.240 --> 1:09:01.080 Who would you say no to A list? 1:09:01.360 --> 1:09:05.679 Well, Kenny became much better at it, right, because he 1:09:06.000 --> 1:09:11.799 did Madonna successfully and he did Eric Clapton successfully, and so. 1:09:11.680 --> 1:09:13.280 He became he nailed it. 1:09:13.920 --> 1:09:17.160 I went the other way, which was I only wanted 1:09:17.200 --> 1:09:18.920 to work with the artist that was signed that we 1:09:18.920 --> 1:09:19.439 were signing. 1:09:19.479 --> 1:09:20.880 I didn't want to work with anybody else. 1:09:20.880 --> 1:09:23.320 You signed, You're like, I'm going to manufacture the next 1:09:23.360 --> 1:09:24.040 ten millions. 1:09:24.240 --> 1:09:26.799 Yes, I'm doing that. So I just went into that mode. 1:09:26.840 --> 1:09:31.240 And so what was the realization point where it's like, hey, 1:09:32.520 --> 1:09:35.920 office life like who does that? 1:09:36.120 --> 1:09:40.759 Who wants? Who? Who wants to be a rock star? 1:09:41.040 --> 1:09:44.320 And then says, or did you realize earlier that all 1:09:44.360 --> 1:09:47.040 of the power and the money and the success and 1:09:47.120 --> 1:09:48.840 the magic is behind. 1:09:49.640 --> 1:09:51.360 It wasn't that, you know what it was for me? 1:09:51.479 --> 1:09:53.880 It was it was really the love of music, man. 1:09:53.920 --> 1:09:58.000 It was because I loved music, not only the music 1:09:58.040 --> 1:10:00.719 that Kenny and I made, but when I met people 1:10:00.800 --> 1:10:04.640 like Dallas Austin, or when I met like not just 1:10:04.680 --> 1:10:07.520 people I work with, but when I would meet other producers, 1:10:07.720 --> 1:10:10.080 I would love their music, like I love Jimmy jam 1:10:10.160 --> 1:10:12.879 and Terry Lewis, I like my favorite producers. Leon Silvers 1:10:12.960 --> 1:10:16.240 is my favorite, you know, amongst my favorite producers. And 1:10:17.040 --> 1:10:19.320 when when Nellie Hooper did Sold the Soul, Like I 1:10:19.400 --> 1:10:23.240 met him and I was like taking and Martinelli I 1:10:23.240 --> 1:10:24.759 met him, McClaren, Savons, Howison. 1:10:24.840 --> 1:10:27.120 I just I love the people that made music. 1:10:27.240 --> 1:10:30.200 So I didn't want a career that was based on 1:10:30.280 --> 1:10:31.960 the music that I made. 1:10:32.080 --> 1:10:33.800 I didn't think I was good enough for that. 1:10:34.160 --> 1:10:36.840 I wanted to be a career that I could work 1:10:36.880 --> 1:10:42.120 with people that I thought were immensely talented. So my 1:10:42.400 --> 1:10:45.519 career decisions had only to do with music. It had 1:10:45.760 --> 1:10:47.880 nothing to do with power, It had nothing to do 1:10:47.920 --> 1:10:51.880 with money. It was a pure love of Damn. I 1:10:51.920 --> 1:10:54.920 love how Dallas does this. I love how Jermaine Dupre 1:10:55.080 --> 1:10:58.439 does that. Oh my god, these kids organize noise, they 1:10:58.479 --> 1:11:01.280 do this, and they do it. Was purely my love 1:11:01.320 --> 1:11:05.040 of music and my love of artistry, right, and I 1:11:05.240 --> 1:11:08.400 liked the idea of like when we met Pebbles, no 1:11:08.400 --> 1:11:11.200 one knew who she was, and we made her record 1:11:11.439 --> 1:11:14.760 and it worked, and so and when we did Karen White, 1:11:14.760 --> 1:11:16.280 no one knew who that was. I mean, she had 1:11:16.360 --> 1:11:18.680 one song on the radio, but she wasn't famous, so 1:11:18.760 --> 1:11:22.120 to speak, or or or our own band, The Deal, 1:11:22.240 --> 1:11:23.720 or Babyface or so. 1:11:23.920 --> 1:11:25.360 I was so into. 1:11:25.280 --> 1:11:29.160 Homegrown and I felt comfortable and homegrown, and I felt 1:11:29.240 --> 1:11:33.760 uncomfortable having to measure up two stars. 1:11:34.080 --> 1:11:37.760 But you realized that once you get behind that desk, 1:11:38.280 --> 1:11:43.240 your Jedi mind trick knowledge has to go into overdrive. 1:11:44.240 --> 1:11:47.439 Because I'm certain by that point, like when you're having 1:11:47.479 --> 1:11:50.439 your own label, you're trying to you got to talk 1:11:50.439 --> 1:11:53.040 people out of a lot of bad decisions, right like 1:11:53.160 --> 1:11:55.120 you you got to take meetings and you got to 1:11:55.160 --> 1:11:59.799 remember names and go to things like Jack the Rapper 1:12:00.200 --> 1:12:04.240 and whatever, shake hans and kiss babies, like who would trade? 1:12:05.240 --> 1:12:07.559 I think it's for the stage or in your life 1:12:07.560 --> 1:12:09.559 like I had, like I was my group little brother 1:12:09.600 --> 1:12:13.439 were signed to UH Atlantic, you know years ago and 1:12:13.520 --> 1:12:16.880 UH and you know, Julie Greenwall we would have conversations 1:12:16.960 --> 1:12:19.120 and you know, she would say, like, you know, we 1:12:19.160 --> 1:12:20.599 had to come up with recently. She was just talking 1:12:20.640 --> 1:12:24.440 about how at this point in her career she enjoys 1:12:24.560 --> 1:12:26.800 kind of being in the stage kind of you know 1:12:26.920 --> 1:12:29.040 where you are, and just all the OG's in the 1:12:29.080 --> 1:12:31.479 game where they're able to kind of sit back and 1:12:31.560 --> 1:12:33.920 see the whole big picture and kind of direct from 1:12:33.960 --> 1:12:36.400 that standing where it happens is more. 1:12:36.680 --> 1:12:39.280 Yeah, Like that's yeah, that's the thing. And I get it. 1:12:39.280 --> 1:12:42.040 It makes total sense, you know versus when you're you know, 1:12:42.240 --> 1:12:44.880 in your LA and Babyface days where you're actually kind 1:12:44.880 --> 1:12:46.599 of in the field so to speak, like when you're 1:12:46.640 --> 1:12:49.200 in the studio you're programming the drums whatever. Now you 1:12:49.200 --> 1:12:50.760 get to kind of be the big picture guy in. 1:12:50.760 --> 1:12:51.799 A single, all the pieces. 1:12:51.960 --> 1:12:54.000 There's one thing I learned about it that I that 1:12:54.080 --> 1:13:00.360 I do love and being being an executive And it 1:13:00.439 --> 1:13:03.920 had to do with choices about artists. 1:13:03.600 --> 1:13:07.400 And records and like the great the ones. 1:13:07.439 --> 1:13:10.400 I love that I considered the great Barry Gordy obviously 1:13:10.400 --> 1:13:13.080 being number one on that side of the lecture right 1:13:13.120 --> 1:13:17.040 as an executive Clive Davis, I obviously love and respect 1:13:17.120 --> 1:13:21.000 Jimmy Ivan, I'm urt again, and there are others, you know. 1:13:21.840 --> 1:13:26.879 But what I loved is if they were passionate about something, 1:13:27.960 --> 1:13:31.400 they could drive it and to your point, right, like 1:13:31.680 --> 1:13:34.439 I think you kind of called it manufacturing, but it 1:13:34.479 --> 1:13:37.920 was more like, if you have this intuition or this 1:13:38.160 --> 1:13:41.680 instinct that this gut that something is the thing, and 1:13:41.760 --> 1:13:45.120 to just drive it through, right, we believe it. I 1:13:45.160 --> 1:13:48.680 believe that belief thing I liked. I like that I 1:13:48.680 --> 1:13:51.000 don't see much of that these days. I really don't 1:13:51.080 --> 1:13:54.960 like what I see people really having to have data 1:13:55.000 --> 1:13:59.720 to back up their decisions. I like the fact that 1:14:00.160 --> 1:14:03.559 you know, we did it with our gut, and we 1:14:03.560 --> 1:14:05.360 were wrong a lot of times, but we were right 1:14:05.520 --> 1:14:08.240 enough times that we are considered successful, right. 1:14:09.400 --> 1:14:10.439 And I liked that. 1:14:10.680 --> 1:14:16.240 And I liked that particularly for black artists, because black 1:14:16.360 --> 1:14:20.559 artists don't often get an opportunity to get a crossover shot, 1:14:21.040 --> 1:14:25.160 a shot to the mainstream. That is all because like 1:14:25.280 --> 1:14:28.040 Whitney Houston is because Clive Davis said this is for 1:14:28.160 --> 1:14:31.479 the masses, Rihanna is because I said this is for 1:14:31.560 --> 1:14:32.160 the masses. 1:14:32.479 --> 1:14:36.360 When you signed Rihanna, I mean she's now god status, 1:14:37.000 --> 1:14:39.840 like there's yeah, she's literally. 1:14:40.960 --> 1:14:43.200 Past She's past the vanguard level. 1:14:43.479 --> 1:14:45.519 Like in my mind, Rihanna would have just been like 1:14:46.400 --> 1:14:50.599 maybe Janet Jackson level where she just has twenty hits 1:14:50.640 --> 1:14:53.960 under her belt, but she's now past that point. 1:14:54.120 --> 1:14:55.639 I can't say I knew all that. 1:14:55.720 --> 1:14:58.040 Maybe j Brown knew it, maybe Jay Z knew it 1:14:58.160 --> 1:15:01.880 right because obviously all of us we're involved together, I 1:15:01.920 --> 1:15:02.920 can't say that when. 1:15:02.760 --> 1:15:06.160 I first saw her and I heard her first Ponder replay, 1:15:06.280 --> 1:15:09.000 Jay Brown brought it to me one night in the office, 1:15:09.080 --> 1:15:11.000 was really late at night, and I was like, I 1:15:11.040 --> 1:15:13.320 guess that was my reaction. 1:15:13.840 --> 1:15:14.439 Yes, all right. 1:15:16.800 --> 1:15:18.880 This is also the period where we were about to 1:15:18.880 --> 1:15:22.000 sign to the label. I remember once. I remember once 1:15:22.040 --> 1:15:26.280 going to a j show. Rihanna was there and you 1:15:26.439 --> 1:15:28.639 signed what's your name? 1:15:29.960 --> 1:15:31.080 No, no, no, not Rita or. 1:15:32.840 --> 1:15:33.439 Ti Marie. 1:15:34.520 --> 1:15:38.160 Now, the energy that I felt in the room when 1:15:38.160 --> 1:15:42.640 I was backstage was Tierra Marie was going to be 1:15:43.560 --> 1:15:44.880 out of the smash. 1:15:46.760 --> 1:15:49.240 And Rihanna got the cute little hit and she'll probably 1:15:49.280 --> 1:15:50.280 get on like now. 1:15:51.560 --> 1:15:52.519 Her song and playing the mall. 1:15:52.960 --> 1:15:55.000 Yes, I thought she's gonna be on that now. 1:15:55.080 --> 1:15:58.720 That's what I call music volume thirty seven, and the 1:15:58.880 --> 1:16:04.960 opposite happened. Yeah, So how how does it again? Is 1:16:05.000 --> 1:16:07.320 that Jedi mind tricking where you have to know who 1:16:07.400 --> 1:16:08.080 your artist is? 1:16:08.439 --> 1:16:08.479 Like? 1:16:08.600 --> 1:16:14.160 How long do you get to absorbing artists to know 1:16:15.479 --> 1:16:18.160 what they need in order to make it happen? I 1:16:18.280 --> 1:16:21.719 think it's just like, okay, so, especially when they self 1:16:21.760 --> 1:16:25.760 sabotage a lot, right, So I. 1:16:25.840 --> 1:16:28.120 Think this first of all, I think this helps answer 1:16:28.200 --> 1:16:31.120 one of your other questions. Yes, we really believed in 1:16:31.360 --> 1:16:32.320 Tia Marie. 1:16:32.080 --> 1:16:32.519 All of us. 1:16:33.280 --> 1:16:37.400 She got the Rockefeller chain, all of it. Yeah, it 1:16:37.479 --> 1:16:39.960 didn't work. I love her as a person, I saw 1:16:40.000 --> 1:16:42.679 her not long ago, but it didn't. It didn't connect 1:16:42.800 --> 1:16:46.120 at all. The songs didn't connect, the artists didn't really connect. 1:16:47.040 --> 1:16:52.439 And so no, you can't force it. You could, you can, 1:16:52.600 --> 1:16:55.960 you can prioritize it, and you can try, but you can't. 1:16:56.200 --> 1:16:58.080 You can lead the horse to water, but you cannot 1:16:58.120 --> 1:17:00.720 make them drink, right, it doesn't It didn't work. 1:17:01.479 --> 1:17:01.919 Rihanna. 1:17:02.120 --> 1:17:06.679 On the other hand, I grew. I grew into it personally, 1:17:06.920 --> 1:17:10.320 Like I remember when it hit me. I remember really 1:17:10.400 --> 1:17:13.080 well when it hit me, sitting in the house one 1:17:13.200 --> 1:17:18.760 night and listening to the demos and you know, Jay Brown, 1:17:18.880 --> 1:17:22.479 Ti those guys they were making her records like, and 1:17:23.439 --> 1:17:26.040 they were giving them to me to listen to. And 1:17:26.400 --> 1:17:28.880 I remember sitting at home listening to Good Girl Gone 1:17:29.000 --> 1:17:32.519 Bad and all these songs. I came back and said, 1:17:32.520 --> 1:17:35.160 wait a minute, guys, she called an album that what 1:17:35.240 --> 1:17:37.120 should call an album? Good Girl Gone Bad? 1:17:37.640 --> 1:17:37.800 Right? 1:17:38.040 --> 1:17:42.320 And it was like it was a statement. Anyway, My 1:17:42.520 --> 1:17:46.479 point is it all of a sudden hit me that 1:17:46.720 --> 1:17:49.720 she was it. And then she did this song called 1:17:49.880 --> 1:17:52.759 so Os, and I watched the video for so Os 1:17:53.520 --> 1:17:56.759 and I took it home. I told my wife Erica. 1:17:57.680 --> 1:17:59.080 I was like, this girl is about to be the 1:17:59.160 --> 1:18:02.960 biggest star in the if not the world, watch this video. 1:18:03.560 --> 1:18:07.360 And we watched the video and it was like, Okay, 1:18:07.400 --> 1:18:13.200 I get it. And then she made Umbrella. And when 1:18:13.240 --> 1:18:18.960 she made Umbrella, then do I know Do I have 1:18:19.040 --> 1:18:22.719 an instinct? Do I have an intuition in those moments? Yes, 1:18:23.320 --> 1:18:25.200 because I knew that was out of here. 1:18:25.240 --> 1:18:28.720 I was like, yep, she's gone right, Okay, you get 1:18:28.880 --> 1:18:34.120 a song like Umbrella, you get jay Z on that song. 1:18:35.120 --> 1:18:36.960 Can he walk us through the process of what it 1:18:37.080 --> 1:18:40.360 takes to make that song connect with an artist, Like, 1:18:41.320 --> 1:18:42.200 how do do you play it? 1:18:42.280 --> 1:18:43.920 Who do you play it for? First? Who gets there? 1:18:44.040 --> 1:18:46.919 Did the dream just bring it in the dreams processed? 1:18:47.400 --> 1:18:47.599 Yeah? 1:18:47.720 --> 1:18:49.880 So no, no, no, I mean creatively, I'm talking about 1:18:49.920 --> 1:18:53.000 once you have album in hand, how do you make 1:18:53.080 --> 1:18:57.600 sure that people around the world know what Umbrella is? 1:18:58.800 --> 1:19:01.439 At the time? It's certainly it's there. 1:19:01.600 --> 1:19:05.360 There are more avenues now, it's the game has gotten 1:19:05.400 --> 1:19:09.120 pretty complicated, and it's and it's flooded, flooded with stuff 1:19:09.320 --> 1:19:14.080 right from all these platforms and all this d I 1:19:14.320 --> 1:19:17.439 Y and every very low barrier to entry. 1:19:17.720 --> 1:19:21.000 So there's a lot more stuff than there are than 1:19:21.200 --> 1:19:25.160 than there is special stuff, uh in the game. Back 1:19:25.600 --> 1:19:30.840 in those days, a record executive can make a record 1:19:30.880 --> 1:19:36.200 of priority and and and put it on radio all 1:19:36.560 --> 1:19:39.000 radio and people will hear it. 1:19:39.960 --> 1:19:44.680 And video video mattered, right, and MTV matter, and b 1:19:44.840 --> 1:19:47.600 E T matter and VH one matter right, and so 1:19:47.920 --> 1:19:52.120 all of our all of our avenues and our platforms, Uh, 1:19:52.320 --> 1:19:55.759 we had enough influence that we could get it a shot. 1:19:56.800 --> 1:19:59.120 It still had to take off, but our job is 1:19:59.160 --> 1:20:01.720 just to get it in front of the people, and 1:20:01.960 --> 1:20:03.400 that's what we did. We got it in front of 1:20:03.400 --> 1:20:04.439 the people and it took off. 1:20:04.880 --> 1:20:07.640 So does that also mean that your relationship has to 1:20:07.720 --> 1:20:12.200 be intact with I don't know who like ran Empty 1:20:12.439 --> 1:20:15.120 or Viacom at the time, or your relationship with the 1:20:16.360 --> 1:20:18.120 whoever runs Clear Channel. 1:20:18.520 --> 1:20:22.320 Yes, yeah, it absolutely means that. Yes, yeah, absolutely, those 1:20:22.439 --> 1:20:24.639 contacts are golden. 1:20:25.120 --> 1:20:25.720 They really are. 1:20:25.840 --> 1:20:28.719 I mean we try to always keep them and even 1:20:28.760 --> 1:20:32.639 with the changing of guards, right we we're right there too, 1:20:33.400 --> 1:20:36.400 you know, hail the new King, held the new Queen. 1:20:37.120 --> 1:20:40.200 But the relationships are golden. But it's also the artist 1:20:40.400 --> 1:20:44.200 relationships with these people and with these gatekeepers, you know, 1:20:45.000 --> 1:20:47.320 they also have to have their own They have to 1:20:47.360 --> 1:20:49.760 do the work. We can't do the work for an artist, 1:20:49.840 --> 1:20:51.720 and an artist has to do that, you know. So 1:20:52.720 --> 1:20:56.479 it's you knowing Tom you know Poeman, It's you knowing 1:20:56.640 --> 1:20:59.000 John Sykes, and it's it's you know what I mean, 1:20:59.080 --> 1:21:03.400 it's it's you Stephen hill A calderoona the MTV or 1:21:03.479 --> 1:21:07.720 Jessic Collins or whoever in my it's you knowing everybody also, uh, 1:21:07.840 --> 1:21:08.080 and that. 1:21:08.160 --> 1:21:09.760 Has a lot of I think that has a lot 1:21:09.840 --> 1:21:10.719 of weight. 1:21:11.280 --> 1:21:15.200 So even now, like, does it get tiring to have 1:21:15.400 --> 1:21:18.679 to know names and what they represent? 1:21:18.920 --> 1:21:20.680 And how do you keep up? La? 1:21:21.280 --> 1:21:21.959 It's exciting. 1:21:22.000 --> 1:21:23.519 I'm the worst at that, sho Okay. 1:21:24.120 --> 1:21:27.320 Exciting though not love that. I absolutely love the challenge 1:21:27.360 --> 1:21:30.120 of that, like I and and my memory is horrible. 1:21:30.240 --> 1:21:32.120 I mean, you can ask me anything about the eighties. 1:21:32.200 --> 1:21:36.080 I remember it, but anything from like twenty eleven forward 1:21:36.120 --> 1:21:39.080 I barely remember. I don't know why, but I really 1:21:39.479 --> 1:21:41.479 liked the idea of it. I mean, once I embraced 1:21:41.520 --> 1:21:44.320 being an executive, I did have a goal, and my 1:21:44.400 --> 1:21:45.519 goal was to be the best. 1:21:47.720 --> 1:21:50.040 Yeah you know it, so check it. 1:21:50.600 --> 1:21:53.560 La only wanted to do about an hour, but you 1:21:53.840 --> 1:21:55.760 know that we couldn't let you go. So once we 1:21:55.840 --> 1:21:59.320 got him rolling, he just wouldn't stop talking. So basically 1:21:59.400 --> 1:22:01.160 that's it for part too. And I want you to 1:22:01.280 --> 1:22:04.240 check back for our third and final QLs episode with 1:22:04.320 --> 1:22:06.680 Eli Red. And while you're at it, definitely check out 1:22:06.720 --> 1:22:09.040 our qs episodes with Babyface as well. 1:22:09.240 --> 1:22:11.639 You know, go ahead at hand, All right, see y'all 1:22:11.680 --> 1:22:22.320 next time. Thank you West. Love Supreme is a production 1:22:22.560 --> 1:22:30.400 of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 1:22:30.640 --> 1:22:33.679 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.