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Speaker 1: Conversations on life, style, beauty, and relationships. It's The Velvet's

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Speaker 1: Edge Podcast with Kelly Henderson. Well, we have a very

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Speaker 1: special guest on the Velvet episode today and it's not

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Speaker 1: the guests yet, but I'm till going to introduce you. Guys.

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Speaker 1: It's Chipped orsh H. I wanted to have you on

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Speaker 1: both episodes this week because of some of the nature

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Speaker 1: of our discussions. I think it's so interesting to hear

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Speaker 1: different versions of people's stories that can have similarities but

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Speaker 1: can just kind of play out so differently, and from

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Speaker 1: a third party, Um, I think it's cool to just

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Speaker 1: come in and see how we're all actually connected in

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Speaker 1: one way or another. So we have a very special

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Speaker 1: guest today, Georgia White. We met Georgia at a dinner.

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Speaker 1: Actually referenced this dinner in our conversation about the Will

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Speaker 1: Smith Chris Rock to Bocle, George is laughing because she

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Speaker 1: saw me kind of get a little heated and you

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Speaker 1: actually agreed. Georgia and I were the two at the

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Speaker 1: table that agreed, and everyone else is kind of like

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Speaker 1: violence is never the answer, and we're like Doug as

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Speaker 1: we know. Um. But we had met that day because

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Speaker 1: so many of us are super interested in the angiogram,

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Speaker 1: and Georgia is not an expert, not a coach. What

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Speaker 1: do you like to refer to yourself as Georgia? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think my business card says Instagram coach.

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Speaker 1: But I'm not fond of the word. Um Okay, why

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Speaker 1: what is it about coach that you don't like? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think there's a part of me that just, um,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel like I'm a witness to

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Speaker 1: people's lives, and I think that being witnessed is what

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Speaker 1: I mean. I think it's just a huge part of

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Speaker 1: our moving forward, our evolution, if you will. And yet

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Speaker 1: that sounds so woo woo. I can't like put that

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Speaker 1: in a business card, and I hate the word expert

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Speaker 1: or guru or anything like that. So, but I do

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Speaker 1: think that ultimately I'm a self leadership coach. I mean

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Speaker 1: that we that that self that you have just helping

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Speaker 1: you create space for that to show up. I actually

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Speaker 1: love the word witness, like that you love to witness people,

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Speaker 1: because I think that that's sort of what I was

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Speaker 1: mentioning when I just said I think they were all

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Speaker 1: so connected and what a cool experience when you hear

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Speaker 1: about people's journey to realize oh, I'm really not so different,

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Speaker 1: which as an Instagram four is very weird for me,

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Speaker 1: and we can talk about that later. I was I

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Speaker 1: was gonna say, witness feels really appropriate to because as

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Speaker 1: someone who doesn't know a ton about the Instagram, like,

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Speaker 1: what I witness um is people being like, oh, she's

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Speaker 1: such a six, and it's like and you see them

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Speaker 1: witness somebody and then tag them with their numbers. So

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Speaker 1: that's weaponizing that. That is definitely memish. It's a it's

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Speaker 1: a terrible thing to do, but you know, well I don't.

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Speaker 1: I've just to clarify it. I've never seen any of

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Speaker 1: my friends that know the anagram use it in a

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Speaker 1: negative way. They're like, it's more in an understanding sort

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Speaker 1: of way. It is. But when that happens, it's generally

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Speaker 1: based on a very shallow, stereotypical like view of what

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Speaker 1: a type six might be, and it could very well

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Speaker 1: be incorrect because that particular description, it's just not that simple.

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Speaker 1: We are not easy creatures. No, it's actually I loved

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Speaker 1: having that conversation with you when we were at that

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Speaker 1: dinner because I said to you specifically I'm a four,

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Speaker 1: and I have such a negative connotation in my mind

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Speaker 1: of my number. I hated when I finally figured out

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Speaker 1: what number it was, um, and you quickly, you like

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Speaker 1: snapped me out of it because you're like, oh, no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: no no, And you told me all these positive attributes

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Speaker 1: of a four. And it did shift my narrative in

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Speaker 1: my head a little bit, just to have that kind

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Speaker 1: of um mentality versus like, oh, the foursome moody, and

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Speaker 1: you know, like I feel every emotion and I'm sending

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Speaker 1: negative like those kind of things because those can be

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Speaker 1: a part of it. But I like that you really

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Speaker 1: try to help people understand the negative so they can

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Speaker 1: understand themselves, but also really see the positive in their number. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I think too, it's just that whole. And I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's human nature. We gravitate. We want to grasp the

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Speaker 1: hold of some sort of thing that defines us that

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Speaker 1: you can say, oh, this is who I am, um.

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Speaker 1: But at the same time, the only reason to know

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Speaker 1: your type is for you to begin to see and

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Speaker 1: recognize and notice those patterns. It's leverage, like, it's leverage

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Speaker 1: for growth. It is not a fixed definition. Oh this

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Speaker 1: is who I am and now I've done because generally

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Speaker 1: people who use the Instagram in that sense, it's not

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Speaker 1: like it's a horrible thing, but they can have a

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Speaker 1: propensity to say, oh, this is who I am and

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Speaker 1: then prop up their bad behavior on that this Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm a bitch because I'm an aide, right, or I

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Speaker 1: can buy your head off and too you have you know,

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Speaker 1: and that's nonsense. I mean, that's the antithesis of what

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Speaker 1: you know. The whole system is about. But it's really

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Speaker 1: not getting the label. You know. Every sure, everybody's like,

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Speaker 1: well who am I and where do I fit in?

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Speaker 1: But if that information is not used then for transformation,

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Speaker 1: then it what you know, it just doesn't serve you.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't. Yeah. When I think of the Instagram and

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Speaker 1: just getting to know yourself, I think a lot about

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Speaker 1: just an awakening to who you are and um, who

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Speaker 1: the people in your life like, just the dynamics that

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Speaker 1: you might have in your relationships because of what their

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Speaker 1: number might or what number they might resonate with the

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Speaker 1: most um And so that's kind of our theme for

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Speaker 1: this month for April. We're really talking about awakenings. And

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Speaker 1: we talked a little bit last month about you know,

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Speaker 1: the journey through winter and just really digging deep within

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Speaker 1: and kind of when you come into spring, you're you're

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Speaker 1: really kind of leaning into your true self. And so

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Speaker 1: you really fit in that category on so many levels.

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Speaker 1: Because one, you can talk to us about the indiogram,

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Speaker 1: which we'll get into later. But with the reason I

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Speaker 1: mentioned earlier that we wanted to have Chip one too,

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Speaker 1: is because you came out as gay later in your

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Speaker 1: life and I found your story so fascinating as a

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Speaker 1: woman in the South, Um, because I really understood why

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Speaker 1: you did what all that you did during your life,

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Speaker 1: Like you got married, you went to a Christian college,

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Speaker 1: you had three kids, and so I really want to

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Speaker 1: dive into that journey and what it looked like. And

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Speaker 1: then here from Chip a little bit about his journey

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Speaker 1: because I think they're very different but very similar as well.

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Speaker 1: So can you talk us through as a child, did you,

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Speaker 1: like when did you know you were gay? Really? Okay?

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Speaker 1: I mean you know what I knew, um, Kelly, is

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Speaker 1: that there was a system. There was there was a

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Speaker 1: religious system, a cultural system, a family system. And I

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Speaker 1: did not fit accurately like that that was clear, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean and some of it was because the bottom

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Speaker 1: line is then I was that typical. I was the tomboy.

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Speaker 1: I played with the director set and a woodburn kit,

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Speaker 1: and I had a motorcycle and I played outside with

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Speaker 1: the boys and um, and my older sister was blonde

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Speaker 1: and beautiful and a beauty queen. But the impact, like

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Speaker 1: everyone in my life wanted me to step into that,

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Speaker 1: like I was a project that they were going to

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Speaker 1: make me more feminine, basically make me more like her.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not at all faulting her. My sister is

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Speaker 1: a lovely, beautiful person. Um, but it just didn't, you know.

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Speaker 1: And I think for me, I even even as a

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Speaker 1: young child, like I felt that, I felt that and

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Speaker 1: I was a super late bloomer. So really, at eight

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Speaker 1: my sister looked eighteen and fourteen. I looked fourteen at eighteen,

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Speaker 1: just very very I mean it's I mean, when you

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Speaker 1: look at pictures of us in our teens, she looks

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Speaker 1: like she's one of the adults, and I looked like

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Speaker 1: I'm in third grade, so you know, but that whole dynamic.

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Speaker 1: But I had no idea. I mean, I had very,

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Speaker 1: very passionate relationships with my girlfriends and I didn't have

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Speaker 1: any boyfriends because I would nobody wanted to, you know,

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Speaker 1: nobody liked me. I was just the I was the

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Speaker 1: third will a lot and and so you know, it

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Speaker 1: just but I didn't have anywhere to put that. The

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Speaker 1: only person I knew in my world that was gay

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Speaker 1: was my science teacher in high school, openly gay. She

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Speaker 1: was openly gay what we would term butch by a

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Speaker 1: long shot. I mean, Betty looked like a man, really

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Speaker 1: dressed like a man, masculine, you know, but she was

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Speaker 1: a brilliant woman and she truly loved me, like in

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Speaker 1: the sense of like she championed me. She's the first

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Speaker 1: person that made me feel like I was really bright

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Speaker 1: and it was just a really interesting thing. But that

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Speaker 1: seemed so off my like I never would have thought,

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Speaker 1: you know, oh, I'm like Betty, you know, and um,

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Speaker 1: so yeah, you just didn't have it, Like I know

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Speaker 1: that's hard for people, but I mean you're talking Mississippi

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Speaker 1: in the seventies in the early eighties, Like no, just

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Speaker 1: not there, you know. And um, I do think probably

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Speaker 1: the first person I fell in love with was my

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Speaker 1: can counselor when I was in high school and she

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Speaker 1: was a student at UTC and came down to this

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Speaker 1: Mississippi church camp, and I mean I was absolutely I

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Speaker 1: couldn't couldn't stand to not talk to her, be with her.

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Speaker 1: But it was never it never became an intimate relationship physically.

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Speaker 1: And so again it's just this good thing. I still

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Speaker 1: have all those letters and cards. I pulled him out recently.

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Speaker 1: I was doing a writing project and I mean it's

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Speaker 1: a it's astonishing how much you could get away with

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Speaker 1: under the guise of spiritual direction. Did you did you

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Speaker 1: recognize it at that point that you were in love

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Speaker 1: with her or oh yeah, I mean at the time,

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Speaker 1: you know, it was just she is my favorite person

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Speaker 1: in the whole wide world. I mean we spent hours

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Speaker 1: on the phone. I mean I was a junior, probably

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Speaker 1: junior in high school. She was like a sophomorn college,

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Speaker 1: you know, and my parents were thrilled because I was

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Speaker 1: a very poorly behaved teenager. Um. You know, I think

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Speaker 1: I rebelled against all of that. You don't fit initially,

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Speaker 1: you know, smoke and drank and you know, I mean

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Speaker 1: I wasn't sleeping around because um but I also had

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Speaker 1: zero desire to do so, which you know, obviously looking back.

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Speaker 1: Oh um, but it is really it's only in looking

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Speaker 1: back really hip that I say that about her, and

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Speaker 1: she and I laughed. She and her wife living at

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Speaker 1: a new amazing I was gonna ask where she is. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well you know, it's it's funny to me too, because

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Speaker 1: like my like obviously it's like you didn't you couldn't

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Speaker 1: um formulate what it was that you were thinking you're

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Speaker 1: feeling because you didn't have any examples to your only

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Speaker 1: example was so foreign from from you that you were like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: that's not it. And for me, um, I grew up

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Speaker 1: in Virginia, and for me, like I had some examples

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Speaker 1: like a a gay distant cousin, and I mean he

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Speaker 1: was a very stereotypical like um, you know, like I

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Speaker 1: don't even know what subset of gay he is. But

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Speaker 1: it was like you knew the second he wasn't like

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Speaker 1: a flaming queen like, but it was like he, um,

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Speaker 1: he was like a Harley gay kind of and that

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Speaker 1: I felt like he wore like a lot of leather

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Speaker 1: and chain necklaces with like big earring and it was

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Speaker 1: just like bleach blonde, spiky hair and it was like

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Speaker 1: just very stereotypical, and I was like when he was around,

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Speaker 1: I got very nervous because I was like, everyone's gonna

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Speaker 1: think I'm him. And I can remember like wanting to

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Speaker 1: dye my hair blonde, but I wouldn't do it because

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Speaker 1: people might think I'm gay. And it was like I

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Speaker 1: assigned all of these stereotypes to just gay in general,

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Speaker 1: and like I would try to dodge them so I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be discovered. And I knew fairly young, like I reckoned.

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Speaker 1: I did it like fifth grade, but I told myself,

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Speaker 1: if I fall in love with a girl, that will change,

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Speaker 1: Like I'm not gay, I just haven't had the girl

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Speaker 1: in my dreams, and a lot of my best friends

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Speaker 1: even to this day or women. I've always related better

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Speaker 1: with women. And I definitely like there were times in

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Speaker 1: my life where I was like, I am in love

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Speaker 1: with this person, but it was really just a best

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Speaker 1: friendship too um and it was probably me trying to

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Speaker 1: force something to happen that just wasn't there. I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have ended up happy if I had gone down that route.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I did that. We'll talk us through that.

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Speaker 1: So you are starting to identify this with this camp counselor,

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Speaker 1: but you wouldn't necessarily connect it to you. I'm in

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Speaker 1: love with her and want to be with her, so

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Speaker 1: then what Yeah, And I ditinctly remember her coming to

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Speaker 1: visit at one point and me shutting it down so hard,

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Speaker 1: like I was cruel to her. And again, looking back,

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Speaker 1: I think there was a part of me that was like,

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Speaker 1: you cannot, like this is no. And I didn't to

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Speaker 1: her for a year like out of nowhere, like there

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Speaker 1: was no fuss, there was no fight, but her coming

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Speaker 1: to my world and being in my world, it was

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Speaker 1: just like there was. I mean, and I do think

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Speaker 1: of myself in parts and there was a part of

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Speaker 1: me that was just like new, this is done and um,

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Speaker 1: but there was a deep, deep desire for me going

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Speaker 1: back to that world, that family, that system. Like I

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Speaker 1: just I wanted to be good and I really had

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Speaker 1: always seen myself as bad, understandably being falling in that

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Speaker 1: type eight category, you know, as a woman in the

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Speaker 1: South and the church. Uh, submissive, No I'm not you know,

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Speaker 1: um quiet and do de mirror. No, I'm not um

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Speaker 1: you know, patient and not angry now I'm not. So

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Speaker 1: there were so many things that um, but I decided,

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Speaker 1: and y'all, it really truly is one of those weird things.

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Speaker 1: Four days before I was supposed to go to college

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Speaker 1: at Old Miss, where I had spent every weekend, I

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Speaker 1: walked in my mom's bathroom and said I don't think

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Speaker 1: I should go to Old Miss. And my mom, instead

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Speaker 1: of saying, hey, we've got it all down, we've got

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Speaker 1: your carpet on the dormant floor, you start rushing. Four

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Speaker 1: days my mom did kind of where my mom does,

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Speaker 1: and she said, well, if it's not where the Lord

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Speaker 1: wants you to be, then you shouldn't go. And it

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Speaker 1: wasn't the best advice, but um, anyway, I found this

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Speaker 1: little thing, this brochure on Stanford University and literally stopped

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Speaker 1: watching Guiding Light, called him, said, you know, I've rededicated

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Speaker 1: my life for the seventeenth time, you know, and I

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Speaker 1: think I should come to Stanford. And I ended up going.

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Speaker 1: And so I went from being a project and again

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Speaker 1: this is my perspective of looking back at what was happening,

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Speaker 1: but I became a project for an evangelical cult. M M.

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Speaker 1: I was. I was there. I was a Christian, but

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Speaker 1: I was the rebel. I was the cussing smoking, drinking.

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Speaker 1: You know. Of course I stopped that, you know, when

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Speaker 1: I got to Stanford. But and it was this bizarre

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Speaker 1: world where I'd never all of a sudden boys liked me. Well,

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Speaker 1: we were in the middle of purity culture. Like you

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Speaker 1: didn't you didn't make out, you didn't even like drive

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Speaker 1: in the back seat. I mean you were like it

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Speaker 1: was just you went on group dates, you um guarded

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Speaker 1: your heart. So basically, you take this child who has

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Speaker 1: no experience with intimacy, sex, um love, and you're in

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Speaker 1: this culture, in this bubble of Sanford, and I'm like, hey,

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, I fit in. I fit in.

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Speaker 1: And not only do I fit in, Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I'm popular. Like this is just this is new and different.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Karen and I were there together, Kelly, and

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Speaker 1: you know it is I often say she was their

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Speaker 1: poster child at the time, and I was there, you know, project,

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Speaker 1: which is hilarious to me to think about Karen. Now

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Speaker 1: we're talking about caring for your child who I've met.

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Speaker 1: I mean, like, the poster child for evangelical Cold is

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Speaker 1: not where I would put her now. Yeah, we grew

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Speaker 1: up in that though, And so it's really interesting because

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Speaker 1: you just again, you have no reference for what love

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Speaker 1: is for, for a sense of self. And so I

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Speaker 1: just began doing what I needed to do to be

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Speaker 1: good and the parts of me that we're managing. If

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Speaker 1: nothing else mattered, it was I'm going to be a

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Speaker 1: godly woman. And I meet this guy and who's my

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Speaker 1: ex husband, who is a delightful human being. He was

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Speaker 1: just handsome and sweet and kind and he could sing

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Speaker 1: and play and blah blah blah. You know, but I

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Speaker 1: when I look back, I mean, he was not scary

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Speaker 1: to me. We had a we had a great partnership,

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Speaker 1: we had a great friendship. Um. And at the time,

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Speaker 1: I thought, this is love. And I want to be

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Speaker 1: really careful here because you know, you're talking about almost

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Speaker 1: thirty years of marriage with this person. So it's really

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Speaker 1: hard for people to grasp I think understanding. I deeply

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Speaker 1: loved this man, and I fully believed I was in

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Speaker 1: love with him, and and to some I'm sure on

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Speaker 1: some level, yes, you know I did. I loved him.

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Speaker 1: This is somebody I said, I can do a life

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Speaker 1: with you. You know, I want to have kids with you. Um.

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Speaker 1: But as you grow older and you really learn what

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Speaker 1: that is, there was a There was a massive gaping

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Speaker 1: whole in that concept that we came together to create.

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Speaker 1: But on the outside people we were the we were

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Speaker 1: the darling couple. I mean, it was just. But you

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Speaker 1: were probably working harder to paint that picture than most

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Speaker 1: of the other couples that you were around, because even

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Speaker 1: if you didn't realize it right, there was something that

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Speaker 1: you were protecting that was more than just the relationship.

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Speaker 1: That's right. And that's that's what I really consider those

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Speaker 1: protective parts that were managing me, managing you know, because

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Speaker 1: you can't be that person, Georgia, because that person is

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Speaker 1: not going to be loved, that person is not going

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Speaker 1: to fit, that person is not good and so you

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Speaker 1: need to push that down literally and you can do

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Speaker 1: this and and I mean also being an eight, we

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Speaker 1: get ship done, we make things happen. I mean I

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Speaker 1: was not only a good wife, I was like a

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Speaker 1: great wife. I didn't go to law school. I quit

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Speaker 1: graduate school. I did the home. You know, all the things,

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Speaker 1: um and I agree to it. There was a huge

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Speaker 1: part of me, I believe, unconsciously working to be this ideal. Sure,

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Speaker 1: I think it's so interesting. As I said earlier, I

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00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:31,159
Speaker 1: find it fascinating as I get older to realize how

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00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,480
Speaker 1: connected all of our mentalities are at all times. And like,

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00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:38,840
Speaker 1: I'm listening to both of you guys just identify with

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Speaker 1: knowing something about yourself of being scared of it or

342
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,760
Speaker 1: just being so scared not to fit into that little

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Speaker 1: box that who created. By the way, I'm still like,

344
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Speaker 1: why did the girl have to play with barbies and

345
00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:54,439
Speaker 1: not the stuff you wanted to play with? You know?

346
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Speaker 1: Like I think we're kind of getting rid of some

347
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Speaker 1: of those constructs around um, sexuality and gender day and

348
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:06,800
Speaker 1: gender yes, all of that stuff, but I totally resonate

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Speaker 1: with all of that. It's one of the reasons that

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Speaker 1: it's been so difficult for me, as an almost forty

351
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Speaker 1: something woman to not have kids and never have been married.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I could have been, and thankfully maybe this

353
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,399
Speaker 1: is my type four I don't know, but I like

354
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,240
Speaker 1: can't fully go through as something if I have this

355
00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:28,679
Speaker 1: internal knowing that it isn't right for me. Um, but

356
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Speaker 1: I'll try until I make myself crazy basically, And um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I just I just think that it's like such a

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Speaker 1: disservice we do as humans to force ourselves to live

359
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Speaker 1: this life so that everyone else feels comfortable with us.

360
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Speaker 1: Isn't that strange? It is? I think it's that root,

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Speaker 1: deep deep, that whole belonging. Renee talks like you know

362
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Speaker 1: that this this is what connects me, because that's just

363
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,399
Speaker 1: we don't have the capacity as kids to recognize, you know,

364
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,160
Speaker 1: to to walk through this stuff and have that knowing. Yeah,

365
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:09,600
Speaker 1: that knowing eventually, whether it's trauma, whether it's life, whether

366
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:13,720
Speaker 1: it's culture. Church. Church played a massive role obviously in mine.

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Speaker 1: But you just that voice, that knowing that you just

368
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Speaker 1: mentioned you I considered that a bad knowing, m a

369
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Speaker 1: bad knowing, Like if my gut and I'm such a

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Speaker 1: gut person, yea, if my gut said one thing, there

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Speaker 1: were probably about fifteen years of my life where I

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Speaker 1: would do the opposite. Wow. I love that you mentioned

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Speaker 1: belonging though, because I did hear you say something about

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Speaker 1: you know you loved your husband, and I believe that

375
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Speaker 1: you did. Um. But that thing that we convince ourselves

376
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Speaker 1: that like love is belonging and fitting in and what

377
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,600
Speaker 1: love should look like. So I mean, as much as

378
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:58,720
Speaker 1: there are the parts of you that love him, now

379
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,399
Speaker 1: you're finally coming into your own and able to see

380
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:05,199
Speaker 1: what love could actually look like, and even probably what

381
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 1: you've been inhibiting yourself from all of your life. Absolutely,

382
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Speaker 1: I think, you know, for me, once that decision was

383
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Speaker 1: made and I was all in my first two children,

384
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Speaker 1: God love them, they were just excellent children, and um,

385
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Speaker 1: I kind of felt like, okay, I'm cruising, but yeah

386
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 1: I did. And then you know, I posted a quote

387
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago from a girl named Hillar

388
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 1: McBride that basically said, spiritual abuse is giving you an

389
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:41,400
Speaker 1: internal critic and attributing that voice to God, and um,

390
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,240
Speaker 1: I love her. She's in Canada, but she writes a

391
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 1: lot about the body. And I posted and I said,

392
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Speaker 1: you know, the struggle for me is that cult then

393
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 1: indoctorated me. I then went to work for and doubled

394
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 1: down and turned around and taught the same ship to

395
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 1: college women for I don't know, twelve years. And so

396
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,439
Speaker 1: I was the abuser, you know, in the sense that

397
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 1: I was saying to them the same things that have

398
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:16,640
Speaker 1: been said to me. And it is And that's the thing.

399
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 1: You know, people gets upset with the word cult, But

400
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 1: when you were in something and it is that incestuous

401
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 1: and you don't seek counsel outside of that, like, and

402
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 1: I could go on and on and on, you like,

403
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 1: you know, people like it is not as it should be.

404
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,400
Speaker 1: But you know, so I think I was on that trajectory.

405
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:46,399
Speaker 1: And then I had Mary Helen. He's about Mary Helen. Yeah. Um,

406
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,680
Speaker 1: Mary Helen is on the wall behind me. I think

407
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:54,400
Speaker 1: you can see her here here. Um. Anyway, she took

408
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 1: those in photography class one time. She's twenty two. She's

409
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 1: intellectually disabled. Um. We knew almost Um, well, write it

410
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 1: a year that we were dealing with as the doctor

411
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,119
Speaker 1: used the term mental retardation back then. Um, but we

412
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,920
Speaker 1: had no idea why. And of course, like everything else

413
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 1: in my life, I decided it was my fault somehow, um,

414
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,199
Speaker 1: which in and of itself was a massive burden to

415
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 1: carry until we finally learned what was wrong. But anyway,

416
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 1: it just it, you know. I think I've said this before.

417
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,439
Speaker 1: I think the kids called the deconstruction, you know, with

418
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 1: when it comes to their religious beliefs, But for me,

419
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 1: it was implosion. You know. It's just like the bottom

420
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: fell out of it. And it was really truly the

421
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 1: best thing in the whole wide world because it would

422
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 1: have taken years I think for me to begin to

423
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 1: really let that self, let that knowing rise, and all

424
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,160
Speaker 1: of a sudden, all the things that I had really

425
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: invested so heavily in and built my life upon and

426
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 1: in um I just thought it. I mean it may

427
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 1: sound extreme, but I was like, this is bullshit, that

428
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 1: this is bullshit. And so it was just enough of

429
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 1: an implosion for that crack, for that self to begin

430
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: that knowing, to begin to have a have some air

431
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 1: and begin to breathe. And so yeah, I mean it

432
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 1: was a lot. She became my life in many ways.

433
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:34,360
Speaker 1: But we left that ministry, moved to St. Louis. But yeah,

434
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: my early thirties, I knew exactly what I was dealing

435
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: with as far as my sexuality. You did. It's so

436
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 1: interesting that that having your daughter and dealing with her

437
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: um mental what do you call it now? They call

438
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,439
Speaker 1: it intellectually disabled? Intellectually disabled? Okay. I wanted to make

439
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 1: sure I was saying, like, she's like a toddler. Yes, yes,

440
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 1: and so I'm assuming it's very hands on. But that

441
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 1: puts a crack in the facade of this perfect little

442
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 1: life that you lived, so that all of it then

443
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 1: becomes so overwhelming to try to keep it all together

444
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 1: because it's like, but no, it's not, it's just not

445
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: it's not. Yeah, So then I want to know one

446
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 1: thing before I asked the next question, like before she

447
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 1: came along, what did your marriage look like like? Were

448
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,159
Speaker 1: you guys just I mean, did you have a sexual relationship?

449
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,159
Speaker 1: Were you happy? Like Chip? I've always asked Chip this

450
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 1: because I'm fascinated, like he's talked about being sexual with

451
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: girls before he finally came out, And I'm like, but

452
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,439
Speaker 1: did you enjoy it? Like I don't. I don't know

453
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 1: that I fully understand or graph what that would feel like.

454
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:45,239
Speaker 1: And and it's, um, it's actually way more of a

455
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:49,679
Speaker 1: bigger question for people who really, um can't believe that

456
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 1: I'm gay. Okay, Um, And but it doesn't bother me

457
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: at all, because you know, you do what you know,

458
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 1: and when you know better, you do better. Sure. Yeah,

459
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: that's why I would say. And um, neither of us

460
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 1: had had sex with anyone. I mean I've never even

461
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 1: been near there, and so you again, you have a

462
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 1: zero frame of reference. And I am very much committed

463
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,719
Speaker 1: to being a good wife. So yes, I mean we

464
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 1: had sex, and probably more more than most people now

465
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 1: as a grown ass fifty four year old woman. Was

466
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 1: their emotional intimacy and that connection and that deep No, yeah,

467
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not sure that he would say there

468
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 1: was because he didn't know any better either, But as

469
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 1: a man, he was having his needs met and I

470
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 1: had my emotional needs met by my female friends. Okay,

471
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 1: but I think I would always chip you said you gravitated.

472
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you had this uncle in your

473
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 1: life or whatever. My favorite people inevitably were day Like

474
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: it just was a I think intuitively, there was this

475
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: sense of you get to live. And again I don't

476
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 1: even think consciously, but I really loved their lives. I

477
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 1: wanted to be very supportive of them, you know. And

478
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:26,959
Speaker 1: Max's husband had a cousin that came out and I

479
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: mean she was my favorite person in his entire family,

480
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 1: she and one of his other cousins, and um, it

481
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 1: just became this. You know. The guy was the manager

482
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: of the restaurant in Mountain Brook. You know, I would

483
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 1: go by myself into it at the bar and talked

484
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 1: to Brett all night long. I absolutely adored him. I

485
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 1: mean anywhere I went, Um, it was like that felt

486
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: home to me. It really really did. And when I

487
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 1: moved to St. Louis, I went to Starbucks to get

488
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 1: coffee and I had to get a job so that

489
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 1: we could have health insurance because the nextsman was in

490
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: school full time. And man, that gal who made my cappuccino,

491
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: I was like she. I mean, I couldn't not I

492
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: couldn't stop thinking about her. And uh, and that wasn't

493
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: the first time that had happened. I mean I could

494
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: go back through different jobs I had in high school

495
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 1: or in college, or I mean there were a couple

496
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 1: of girls in college that I was absoluutely crazy about. Crazy,

497
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 1: you know. Um, but again, you just that's just you know,

498
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: I'm just a really good friend. Yeah, so you just

499
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: thought it away as like we're best friends, Yes, for sure,

500
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 1: and and and those girls are just as straight and

501
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 1: narrow as they can be, trust me. But this gal

502
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 1: at Starbucks was not. And I went and got a

503
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 1: job at that Starbucks. That's amazing, And um, she is

504
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: still a dear friend. She and her wife live in Seattle,

505
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: and um, but I worked there for three years with

506
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: an at least two thirds of the staff were day

507
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: and it was just a reckoning in my marriage like,

508
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: nothing sexually happened with any of those people, but I

509
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: felt so at home. I like there was just such

510
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 1: a freedom in being with them, their stories, what they

511
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:34,719
Speaker 1: had gone through. They all had come out when they

512
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: were young, many rejected by the church, many rejected by

513
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: their families. I was like they were they called me

514
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 1: big Mama, and uh, like it just was. I think

515
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 1: it was just the softening into the fact that you

516
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 1: feel home here because you might want to be here,

517
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: you know, you you you probably would sleep with her

518
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 1: if she you wouldn't know what to do, but you'd

519
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 1: probably sleep, you know. And so I started going to

520
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 1: a therapist in St. Louis trying to deal with I

521
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: think I'm gay. So were you trying to talk yourself

522
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 1: out of it or like to fix it? Okay, that's

523
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 1: like what Chips said where you just thought, if I

524
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: fall in love with a woman, then I won't be

525
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: having these feelings. Yeah, I just thought that ship has sailed.

526
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: That ship has sailed. I wanted nothing more in my life,

527
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: even to this day than to be a good mother. Um.

528
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: I've come to the conclusion I don't think there's any

529
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 1: such thing but to be a loving and Um. I thought,

530
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 1: there's no way I will lose my children. I mean this,

531
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: I mean this is early two thousand's, but I'm still

532
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 1: thinking this living in Birmingham, Alabama. Then we were in St. Louis,

533
00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 1: but all of my context was you know, you would

534
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 1: lose everyone, your family, his family, you know, your siblings,

535
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: your children. It was just it was huge. That ship

536
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 1: has sailed and you need to buck up, bitch. Well,

537
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: so what was the was there a moment? Was there

538
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: just like the slow coming to terms with how you

539
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: were really feeling inside or accepting that or how did

540
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 1: that look? You know, when you're thirty how old was

541
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 1: I? I I don't know, early thirties and you're sneaking around

542
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 1: to watch The L Word, and you know, it's all

543
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 1: you can think about, and you want to go with

544
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 1: your friends to the you know, the Lazzie Club and

545
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: and again you know, um, my friend Carry and I

546
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 1: would go as straight people. She's out too, that's hilarious.

547
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:53,719
Speaker 1: But it was just this, It was almost like I

548
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 1: can be a part of this. And I became a

549
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 1: more and more fierce ally and I felt like those

550
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 1: things would keep me, that they would let me have

551
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,840
Speaker 1: enough up that part of myself, but that I could

552
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:13,320
Speaker 1: never ever ever come out. There was so much at stake.

553
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 1: Oh God, was it mostly the kids or was it

554
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 1: the whole package of like your reputation as a as

555
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,280
Speaker 1: a mom, as a person living in this perfect little

556
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 1: box as a wife, like which peace was the most

557
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 1: held the most weight? My kids? Easily? Easily my kids

558
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 1: because you know, I had been in therapy since I

559
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 1: graduated from college, um, just dealing with parental relationships, you know,

560
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,359
Speaker 1: so like I've been doing work, you know, and and

561
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 1: and there were a lot that was really the beginning

562
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,319
Speaker 1: of me when I said that that voice or that

563
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: knowing got some air. I mean I gave it a

564
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 1: lot of air in St. Louis. I mean it was

565
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: like I was just bring it on, you know. And

566
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 1: and we discussed divorce because you know, you move away

567
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 1: from your world and you realize that the only emotional

568
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 1: support you had is not here in this house with you,

569
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 1: m M and and and the and and this is

570
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 1: all not on him either, because the ministry just I

571
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 1: mean was so terrible for marriages and families. I mean

572
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 1: it was just really really terrible. And um but anyway, um,

573
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 1: so yeah, I think that I knew Viscer. Really, you know,

574
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: I would sneak on. I would not I would go

575
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:41,320
Speaker 1: to a hotel for the weekend to work with my

576
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 1: kids scrap books and watch episode after episode of The

577
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 1: L Word. That's amazing. Well it's it's crazy. I was

578
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 1: trying to find it while you were talking, but I

579
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:52,360
Speaker 1: can't remember where I saw it, So I'm going to

580
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 1: paraphrase a little bit. But I saw I saw a

581
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 1: post one day that like just sort of reflected on like, um,

582
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: how incredibly difficult the coming out processes and how gay

583
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 1: people learn to live very um controlled existences because you

584
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 1: have to think about the way you walk, the way

585
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 1: you wear your hair, the weight, like how you reference things,

586
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 1: like what you say you like, what you say you

587
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 1: don't like, Like you're you're you're creating an existence that's false,

588
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 1: and um god, it's you know, when I look back

589
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 1: all my life, like I am so jealous of these

590
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 1: kids that are like out in high school and going

591
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 1: to problem with their boyfriends and their girlfriends and like

592
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 1: literally like being so true to themselves at such a

593
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 1: young age that like a lot of like this prison

594
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 1: that you created for yourself, like it literally had nothing

595
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 1: to do with whether or not you loved your husband.

596
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: It was like you hadn't allowed yourself to love you

597
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 1: because of all of this external pressure that you bought into.

598
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 1: And you know, oh, in the ministry, like you you

599
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 1: mentioned like, well, I mean you were in this like

600
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 1: sort of biosphere that like all you know is what

601
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 1: you're being taught. Like, and if you're not seeking information

602
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: from other sources, probably because you felt like you didn't

603
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:15,919
Speaker 1: need it, because you were getting everything that you thought

604
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 1: you needed. Um, it can be a really isolating thing.

605
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,720
Speaker 1: And it's um, you know, I just I love hearing

606
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 1: your story. I'm so glad that you have found your

607
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 1: way to your truth. And you know, I just hope

608
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 1: that anybody that's listening that suspects that like their family members,

609
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 1: of their children or whatever, just creates like a nurturing

610
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 1: environment that like lets them be them. I saw a

611
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: quote from Dwayne Wade that I'll paraphrase to he was,

612
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: Oh I saw it. I posted it too. Yeah. It

613
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 1: was like he said something like I'm not I'm not

614
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 1: here on this earth to like make my children be

615
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,359
Speaker 1: a certain I'm here to allow them to be who

616
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 1: they are. And I'm paraphrasing it but it was get

617
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 1: to know them, like to help them on their journey. Yes, yeah,

618
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,359
Speaker 1: and I like it's I I don't have children, so

619
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 1: I said on my perch to judge everybody else how

620
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: their parent, but uh, you know, it's like nothing pains

621
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 1: me more than when I see a parent not embracing

622
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:13,799
Speaker 1: their child's individuality. And it just like, I'm like, who

623
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 1: gives a funk if your kids clothes don't match at school?

624
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: Like if that's what they want to wear, as long

625
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 1: as it's weather appropriate, who cares? Like let their free

626
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 1: flag fly and they're going to figure it out themselves.

627
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 1: Like maybe it is through a bully at school, but

628
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 1: I don't think that. Like as parents are or even

629
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 1: as family, it's our job to overprotect people from themselves,

630
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 1: you know. And I'm just so thrilled that, like and

631
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 1: you being a new friend that I've just met, Like

632
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 1: I can't wait to get to know you better, but

633
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 1: like that you have found this freedom, this like self love.

634
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:53,399
Speaker 1: It's so important. Oh it's it is life altering. And

635
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 1: I mean, but that is exactly what one of the

636
00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 1: things I love so much about Dwyane Wade and what

637
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 1: he said is he it's not about us, and um,

638
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: as a parent who made it about me in those

639
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 1: early years. Um, I mean my two adult children laugh

640
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 1: at me for the things I wouldn't let them do

641
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 1: when they were little. You know, they weren't even allowed

642
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 1: to watch public television. Wow. Can I just tell you

643
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 1: the PBS is like my life blood? You know, but

644
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 1: it is. It's just really interesting when you learn that

645
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 1: as a parent, that it's not about you, it is,

646
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: it's relevantory. It's just changes everything and your ability to

647
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 1: actually let this human being grow into who they are

648
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 1: meant to be. It's not they're not here to make

649
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 1: right all the wrongs you made. They're not here to

650
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 1: you know, fulfill dreams that you never had fulfilled. Blah

651
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:53,839
Speaker 1: blah blah and um, but yeah, it is. Really it

652
00:39:53,920 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 1: was a long, long, long, hard road to get here. Um.

653
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:02,839
Speaker 1: And I'd laughed because people are like, well, why were

654
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 1: you anxious? And I mean I would say things, you know,

655
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 1: like about thinking about Michelle Peiffer, Robin Wright, you know,

656
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 1: when I'm having zax, you know, I mean I thought

657
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 1: all women did that. I mean, why not? You know,

658
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 1: they're amazing. And but when I would go out of town,

659
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,359
Speaker 1: which I love to travel. I've always traveled. If I

660
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: had one too many, I was telling some stranger that

661
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 1: I was sure that I was getting I mean all

662
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 1: over the country. I mean a blogging conference in New

663
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 1: York City, or visiting a friend who's an artist, you

664
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 1: know in Santa Monica or you know, Dallas, or I

665
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 1: mean so basically, you do that for ten years, people,

666
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 1: then you start to wake up in the moulda night

667
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 1: and think this world is way too small and um,

668
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 1: so there's that anxiety. Ay, there's um, you know, and

669
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 1: even friends that I cared so deeply about. Would I

670
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 1: have married them in a heartbeat. I would have, but

671
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 1: they were straight, you know, and um. But so there

672
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,439
Speaker 1: was a there was a vibe I think about who

673
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 1: I am, that there was this undercurrent of people thinking

674
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 1: that I might be gay in Birmingham, where where I lived,

675
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 1: um for those ten years. And yeah, so I moved

676
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 1: to Charlotte with my ex husband with this muddled idea

677
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:39,359
Speaker 1: that I would come out there. Wow, so you kind

678
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: of had it planned? I did. Yeah, I hadn't. Yeah,

679
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 1: Like I knew I wanted to, I didn't know if

680
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: I could. So many of my friends knew, my close

681
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 1: friends knew Um, but yeah, I just knew I didn't

682
00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 1: want to do it in Birmingham. That's where the colt

683
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: had been, That's where had gone to seeing I had

684
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 1: like so many iterations of Georgia in that place that

685
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 1: it just it just didn't feel safe at all. And

686
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 1: the anonymity in moving really gave me that. Um. But

687
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 1: that's how you know. I mean, I started working with

688
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 1: Instagraham in those early two thousands that came back to it. Um.

689
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,879
Speaker 1: I just started reading about it and whatnot, and then

690
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 1: really dug in, Um, I don't know, I don't even know.

691
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 1: I don't know yours anymore. Sometimes I'm like, I have

692
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 1: no idea when that was. It was just sometimes in

693
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 1: my life people. But UM, I really think that at

694
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,240
Speaker 1: some point, and I may have said this to U Kelly,

695
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:52,399
Speaker 1: I thought I could develop, that I could become so

696
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 1: self aware that I could kind of bypassed this spirituality,

697
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:03,800
Speaker 1: then bypassed the spirituality thing, I mean, bypass the sexual sexuality. Okay,

698
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 1: so basically you were going to try to fix yourself, well,

699
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 1: not even fix myself. But I think at some point

700
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:13,439
Speaker 1: I'd convinced myself on some level that I could just

701
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 1: live with it. Like I'm in a relationship. I'm in

702
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 1: a marriage. I love him, he loves me. We have

703
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 1: these lovely children. We have a special needs daughter who

704
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 1: requires care. You know, it's like, look, this is just

705
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:34,720
Speaker 1: you gotta again buck up, you know, sacrifice yourself, yes,

706
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 1: and help other people become their best self. I have

707
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,360
Speaker 1: a question, um that I want to ask before we

708
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:47,240
Speaker 1: get too far away from your comment. Um, you said

709
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 1: like all you really wanted was be a good mother,

710
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 1: and then you rephrase it a loving mother. Would you think, um,

711
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 1: or would you say that through coming out you've become

712
00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 1: a better mother? Absolutely? Yeah, I would imagine absolutely. And

713
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 1: I say that because, Um, I love truth, like in

714
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 1: the sense of I love authenticity. I think that's why

715
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 1: Kelly and I connected. I mean, it's just this. I

716
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 1: believe we all, we are all here and have this

717
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 1: seated coded essence that is unlike any other human ever

718
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 1: in history of the world. And and I think that

719
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 1: us creating space in our lives for that to rise

720
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:38,359
Speaker 1: is just that's for me everything. And but here I was,

721
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 1: and I had tamped me down, and so I mean

722
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 1: I really became I mean it became harder and harder.

723
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:52,400
Speaker 1: I stopped writing. I blogged for like a few years.

724
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 1: I stopped because I just felt like I was a liar,

725
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 1: Like I felt like that I was not being I

726
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,840
Speaker 1: was telling everybody else live their truth and I was

727
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 1: not living mine. But I do think that, um, and

728
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 1: I think Shakespeare said it that hit honesty is the

729
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 1: greatest heritage that you can give your children. And I

730
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 1: am so grateful chip for who my children are. That

731
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 1: they have suffered me, loved me, forgiven me, honored me,

732
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:32,280
Speaker 1: wept for me, hated me, I mean all the things,

733
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 1: because um, I mean, it really was a massive upheaval

734
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 1: in their lives. I mean, granted they were in their twenties,

735
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 1: but you know it was and yet they have been

736
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:51,440
Speaker 1: remarkably supportive. Well and now they know you. You know,

737
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 1: it's they get to know the real you, and that's

738
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 1: so important, Like what a gift. Yeah, it's also sweet.

739
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, it's what you know, it's sweet. I mean

740
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 1: there's a real sweetness to this sense of like not

741
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 1: having to be this person. But I think on the

742
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 1: road of motherhood, when motherhood was a lot of what

743
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: kept me so confined, for it to now be a

744
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 1: place of no like this is the best I could do.

745
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:23,319
Speaker 1: This is the very best thing I could do for you. Yeah,

746
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 1: I do think I was gonna say that kind of.

747
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 1: I can piggyback on that a little bit because one

748
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:31,319
Speaker 1: of the um greatest gifts my parents gave me was

749
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:34,799
Speaker 1: getting into recovery when I was a younger kid. My

750
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:38,439
Speaker 1: dad um got sober when I was eight, and what

751
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:41,239
Speaker 1: it taught me was that my parents aren't perfect, and

752
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 1: it's okay to be human and you can keep growing,

753
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 1: which is probably why I know what to do with

754
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 1: all of that stuff. I also really resonate with you

755
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:52,279
Speaker 1: what you're saying though about doing all the work. Like

756
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 1: I just was in that season of being in a

757
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 1: toxic relationship and thinking if I just did enough work

758
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:03,359
Speaker 1: and fix myself enough, like fix myself even though I'm

759
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 1: only one part of this dynamic, then the relationship can work.

760
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:09,719
Speaker 1: I won't have to leave. I can have this little

761
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 1: happy family and live the you know, picture perfect life.

762
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:15,359
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm supposed to as a woman from

763
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 1: the South and um and and it's very similar capacity

764
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 1: I'm sitting on this podcast or this is why I've

765
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 1: had to get even more real about what's actually happening

766
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 1: in my life because I was having on all these

767
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 1: guests to talk about, you know, the healing journey, and

768
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 1: on one hand, that was exactly the life I was living,

769
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 1: and then on the other hand, it was like, no,

770
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:39,360
Speaker 1: I was in a really fucked up relationship, So you

771
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 1: just feel like such a fraud. And so I think

772
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 1: that as humans we can all really resonate with that

773
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:47,759
Speaker 1: and really like hearing you guys both just own the

774
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 1: journey of what it looked like and like maybe it

775
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 1: wasn't perfect and kind of messy. It just makes me

776
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:56,800
Speaker 1: happy that you're actually living and what you're feeling inside

777
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,759
Speaker 1: versus the suppression, because that is just so sad to mean.

778
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 1: Chip and I know a couple of people that were like,

779
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:05,839
Speaker 1: are they really living in their truth? You know, like

780
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:09,320
Speaker 1: you can sense it, and it just for me brings

781
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 1: us overwhelming sense of sadness. More than anything like that.

782
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:16,399
Speaker 1: Anyone would ever feel like they are not worthy enough

783
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:20,399
Speaker 1: to just live in exactly the way that they were

784
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:24,359
Speaker 1: made like that, they wouldn't feel like they're exactly who

785
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 1: they should be, or they're perfect the way they are

786
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 1: anything like that. And I'm speaking to myself as well,

787
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 1: you know, I just think that is such a sad

788
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 1: pressure that we put on each other. It's yeah, it's

789
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:42,319
Speaker 1: absolutely brutal and both self imposed and that which we

790
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 1: take on, whether it's generational, you know, culturally, whatever what

791
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 1: we take on. And and then just let I mean it,

792
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 1: it's oppressive. It is really oppressive. And so you know,

793
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: I've told several people, I said, listen, liberation is the

794
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:02,720
Speaker 1: word that I would use or for what has really

795
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:06,759
Speaker 1: transpired in my life, not just in becoming out, but

796
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 1: through the work that I still and will forever do

797
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 1: of of being liberated from just those patterns, those things,

798
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 1: those parts of me that I think are me, the

799
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:22,319
Speaker 1: parts of me that I think are me, and and

800
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 1: really that's just a part of me, you know, in

801
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:30,759
Speaker 1: that sense of umm, not disconnecting it, not at all,

802
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:36,799
Speaker 1: but um disidentifying with that, you know, part of me

803
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 1: that needs to be a good mom. You know, we

804
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 1: call it unblending and I f s. But just being

805
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 1: able to say, Okay, I'm not an angry person. There's

806
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:48,920
Speaker 1: a part of me that carries a lot of anger

807
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:50,759
Speaker 1: and I really want to be curious about that. There's

808
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 1: a story there, you know, there's a story there. And

809
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:57,239
Speaker 1: and just being able to do that. Um, I think

810
00:49:57,320 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 1: I call it. I want to see her rather than

811
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:01,799
Speaker 1: be her. I want to see that part of me

812
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 1: and that gives me that separation where I can go, huh,

813
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:10,360
Speaker 1: what is it? I'm so angry about where that's concerned?

814
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 1: And um yeah, I think that that's what creates s

815
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 1: space that And when I say self led leadership, that's

816
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 1: what I mean that. When I'm able to disidentify with

817
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:26,319
Speaker 1: those parts, those voices, those patterns, those narratives, You're like wait, wait, wait,

818
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:31,440
Speaker 1: wait wait okay, because it feels so integral. You feel

819
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:34,799
Speaker 1: completely hijacked. And this is who I am. I am

820
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 1: just a very angry you know, I want to choke him,

821
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:43,359
Speaker 1: you know, you know or whatever. Um. I use anger

822
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 1: because it's easiest, you know, part to talk about. But yeah,

823
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:52,720
Speaker 1: so it is um being liberated from that and knowing

824
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:58,719
Speaker 1: that my essence, my core is good. When I was

825
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:03,799
Speaker 1: raised to believe every thing about me is bad. It

826
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 1: is just it is a talk about a shift. It's

827
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 1: it's just insane. I like that because I don't like

828
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:13,280
Speaker 1: the words good and bad when it comes to humans.

829
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 1: It's just like the wise, like I've been doing this,

830
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 1: um flower essence I've posted it on my Instagram a

831
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago, which is super cool and also

832
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 1: really scary because it's like, you take these little drops

833
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:28,520
Speaker 1: four times a day for a month or whatever, and

834
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:30,799
Speaker 1: it is supposed to bring stuff to the surface. Well,

835
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 1: I was kind of like, Okay, I'll give this a

836
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:35,360
Speaker 1: go and see what happens. Well, it's working because what

837
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 1: I like have been what's been happening to me the

838
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 1: last week is that my anxiety has come up. Are

839
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,919
Speaker 1: like with work, I've been feeling all these are having

840
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:46,200
Speaker 1: all these voices in my head like you're not really

841
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 1: good at this, you suck you, blah blah blah. And

842
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 1: it hit me last night, Oh my god, this is

843
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:54,480
Speaker 1: the essence. This is what's actually happening in my brain

844
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 1: and in my body at all times. And I have

845
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:00,719
Speaker 1: two choices. I can try to suppress them again and

846
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,319
Speaker 1: be like, nope, I'm just an insecure person. I have

847
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 1: a lot of anxiety, or I can um journal about it,

848
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 1: like I wrote down worst case scenario in best case

849
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 1: scenario and tried to really get peaceful with both. And

850
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 1: what was just interesting was how the critical voices or

851
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 1: the narrative in my head when I exposed it, it

852
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 1: was just like, oh, well, that's really sad that I

853
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 1: would talk to myself that way, or that's actually not

854
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 1: true at all. But I'm either staying curious about it

855
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 1: and acknowledging it and operating, then I can make a

856
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 1: different decision, or it's driving the fucking bus in my life.

857
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 1: That's exactly right, gl Like, it's not going to go away.

858
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 1: So just staying curious and um and getting to know

859
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:51,520
Speaker 1: ourselves is such an important part of this human experience

860
00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 1: to me. Yeah, I mean I totally. I mean, lovey

861
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:58,799
Speaker 1: everything you just said, and I think too. It's that

862
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:04,840
Speaker 1: curiosity and then bring compassionate awareness to it is really

863
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:08,759
Speaker 1: what transmutes it. Like I don't there's no part of

864
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:12,520
Speaker 1: me that I want to transcend or get rid of

865
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 1: or you know, like and when we you hear we

866
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 1: say it to ourselves, Oh I hate that part of No.

867
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:20,839
Speaker 1: I want to tend to and heal that part of

868
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 1: me because there's a story there. Again, I get it,

869
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:30,120
Speaker 1: and and I really do. They're bringing that um. It's

870
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:33,439
Speaker 1: like in what is it called alchemy, you know, being

871
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:37,480
Speaker 1: able to bring these parts to this place of healing

872
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:41,440
Speaker 1: and transmute it from what it is into what it

873
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:46,399
Speaker 1: was meant to be. Yes, yes, and and that's it's

874
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 1: very it's it is, it is daily, it is ongoing,

875
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 1: it is forever. But it is glorious to to believe

876
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 1: that for me, that I am only going to get

877
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:03,359
Speaker 1: more hole completely, Like, did you ever think you would

878
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:05,719
Speaker 1: get to a place of saying there is not a

879
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 1: part of myself that I would change. Isn't that crazy?

880
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:13,600
Speaker 1: Because it is? You know, And I would say there's

881
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:17,360
Speaker 1: not And and this comes from Dick Schwartz and what

882
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:19,680
Speaker 1: I've learned through I f S. But there's not a

883
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:24,160
Speaker 1: part of me that is bad, even even if when

884
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:29,040
Speaker 1: I am hijacked by that part, the behaviors are extreme.

885
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:35,000
Speaker 1: And trust me, I have those parts. But you know

886
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:38,880
Speaker 1: his latest book, No no bad parts, that there's a reason,

887
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:42,960
Speaker 1: there's something underneath that there, you know, And and there

888
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:50,120
Speaker 1: is this an eight holy, wise unscathed self that if

889
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 1: we can create that space, even just a little bit

890
00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:57,720
Speaker 1: of space, you know, that we can have that essence

891
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:01,719
Speaker 1: rise and I I mean it gets me all you know,

892
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:04,960
Speaker 1: obviously gets me all fared up. This feels like a

893
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 1: really good time to transition into the angiogram. Conversations. You

894
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:11,879
Speaker 1: guys tune in on Friday. We're gonna have Georgia back,

895
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:18,919
Speaker 1: and we're going to educate, educate, educate what education version

896
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:26,040
Speaker 1: of the education. We're gonna educate and educate. Chip on

897
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:28,960
Speaker 1: the angiogram, So you guys tune in on Friday,