Speaker 1: Welcome to the solid verbal hell.
Speaker 2: That for me, I'm a man, I'm forty.
Speaker 3: I've heard so many players say, well, I want to
Speaker 3: be happy. You want to be happy for a day?
Speaker 3: Ato Steak, is that woo woom?
Speaker 1: And then and tie.
Speaker 3: Dan, I am not going to lie to you.
Speaker 1: I am elated, elated, Yeah, to be doing this show
Speaker 1: with you today. I am thrilled about this episode.
Speaker 3: I like that it's tickling you right where you need
Speaker 3: to be tickled, scratching you. You're where you're itch and
Speaker 3: bringing on Scott Doctrman. As you know, you've seen the
Speaker 3: title from The Athletic to talk about the Big ten
Speaker 3: TV draft, maybe a little Big ten Playoff stuff as
Speaker 3: the SEC is positioning itself with how it views the
Speaker 3: playoff and the ideas it's looking for to to be
Speaker 3: more solution oriented and the Big ten with Tony Pettiti
Speaker 3: allegedly preferring or at least pitching the auto bid pitch
Speaker 3: for the four plus four plus two plus two. So
Speaker 3: right now we're at twelve four four two two one
Speaker 3: three one three.
Speaker 2: There is it.
Speaker 3: That's how we run.
Speaker 2: Youve got to.
Speaker 1: Memorize it then you can get it. I know for
Speaker 1: shot I know Scott's been doing great work over at
Speaker 1: the Athletic. He has written two articles now, you know,
Speaker 1: over the last couple of weeks that have really drawn
Speaker 1: our interests. The first go out and read it. We'll
Speaker 1: link it up in the description here inside the Big
Speaker 1: Tens TV Draft how Fox, NBC and CBS split up
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty five football schedule. So look, we come
Speaker 1: at it from this perspective. We've been talking about the
Speaker 1: TV side of this for generations now, or what feels
Speaker 1: like generations.
Speaker 3: Collash Mooball's a TV show, Colash.
Speaker 1: Football's TV show, love it, hate it, despise it, whatever.
Speaker 1: The fact that they have a draft, a draft to
Speaker 1: pick which games are being played when and on which
Speaker 1: network is fascinating, full stop, don't care what you think
Speaker 1: of the fact that they are drafting these games is
Speaker 1: of interest to anybody who grew up in the fantasy
Speaker 1: football era. Yes, I am excited to talk to Scott
Speaker 1: about this and find out what he's learned. Lord knows,
Speaker 1: on this show, we've been drafted all sorts of weird
Speaker 1: things for as far back as we can remember, so
Speaker 1: an actual game draft is definitely of importance. We're going
Speaker 1: to focus a good chunk most of our questions on
Speaker 1: that structure, about it and how it came to fruition,
Speaker 1: all that type of stuff. So we'll get into that
Speaker 1: with Scott here momentarily. He also at time of recording,
Speaker 1: we're recording this on Tuesday afternoon, late morning, he published
Speaker 1: an article today why does the Big Ten want four
Speaker 1: automatic college football playoff bids? The league's case has a
Speaker 1: long history, so we're going to talk about that as well,
Speaker 1: because of course that's very much in the news now
Speaker 1: as well. We've got this public posturing, at least on
Speaker 1: the SEC side, we have heard a whole lot from
Speaker 1: the Big Ten as of late, but we're going to
Speaker 1: get Scott's intel on that front as well, so cover
Speaker 1: those two things.
Speaker 2: At some point we'll have.
Speaker 1: To bring them back to talk specifically about Iowa football.
Speaker 1: But today we're going to focus in a little bit
Speaker 1: more on these bigger picture, more national Big Ten related stories.
Speaker 3: We're gonna have to counteract this show that is so
Speaker 3: focused on, you know, corporate interests and the business of
Speaker 3: college football broadcasting behind the scenes, and next week we're
Speaker 3: gonna have to do a show that's just like How
Speaker 3: to Play Left guard with Quentin Nelson, Right, we just
Speaker 3: need to bring balance into the solid verbal ecosystem whatever,
Speaker 3: and not go too far in any one direction. Obviously,
Speaker 3: we're going to do our previews coming up here this
Speaker 3: summer and you know, get into the more fun element
Speaker 3: of all of this. This is very much an early
Speaker 3: June show that we're super excited to do. But yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna need to hear about hand placement from Steve Hutchinson. Right,
Speaker 3: We're gonna need to do something to balance this out.
Speaker 3: Go on out to verballers dot.
Speaker 1: Com if you want to further support what Dan and
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Speaker 1: rating or review. All of that stuff helps Stan.
Speaker 3: Shall we dive right in and with that, it's our
Speaker 3: pleasure to bring on the athletics Scott Doctorman, who has
Speaker 3: written a couple of fascinating pieces, the first of which
Speaker 3: is what truly inspired us to bring him on. But
Speaker 3: then I saw a new piece came out today on Tuesday,
Speaker 3: June third, as we record this about you know, Jim
Speaker 3: Delaney's strategy and the thought of big ten pitching auto
Speaker 3: bids and what that may have meant in previous years
Speaker 3: for the college football playoff and what it may not
Speaker 3: have meant. We had Scott on last year in talking
Speaker 3: about the I don't know, it's calamity a good word, ty,
Speaker 3: I think so.
Speaker 1: I mean, we tried to unpack what was going on
Speaker 1: with Iowa's offense, and at that point in time, our
Speaker 1: thinking was, we need to unpack this. We need an
Speaker 1: IOWA expert to help us understand not just what took
Speaker 1: place this off season or back then in the twenty
Speaker 1: twenty three season, but just give us the full evolution
Speaker 1: of how we got to this point.
Speaker 3: So with that preamble, Scott, welcome back to the solid verbal.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm thrilled to be here, and at least I
Speaker 2: won't have to talk about the drive for three twenty
Speaker 2: five anymore.
Speaker 3: That's true.
Speaker 2: I think it's over, so I think they'll be a
Speaker 2: little bit better this year. So, by the way, you
Speaker 2: got to talk about other stuff sidebar Fresno State might
Speaker 2: have like the best tight ends coach randomly in the
Speaker 2: country who just shouldn't be an offensive coordinator. Brian Farrence.
Speaker 2: I tell you what, Brian, Yeah, Brian was you know
Speaker 2: Rob Grinkowski and I talked to him about this, said,
Speaker 2: Brian Ferrence was the best coach he ever had as
Speaker 2: a tiight ends coach with the Patriots. Taught him how
Speaker 2: to block. Basically described to him, Look, it's like pushing
Speaker 2: a car. That's how we attack the defenders. And he
Speaker 2: learned how to do it and turn him into a
Speaker 2: Hall of Fame blocker as well as receivers. So Brian
Speaker 2: is really good in that area. It's a Peter principle.
Speaker 2: I mean, he's a great offensive line coach. He was
Speaker 2: a very good tight ends coach. I'm sure Fresno State
Speaker 2: will have some great coaches there. Everybody who played under
Speaker 2: him at that position swears buying Sam Laporta, you know,
Speaker 2: all of the above, and it's just calling plays and
Speaker 2: designing plays was probably just not his forte.
Speaker 3: Fair enough, Okay, so let's start here. You wrote a
Speaker 3: piece on the Big Tens TV network draft. Obviously, there
Speaker 3: are certain priorities that networks have in terms of, you know,
Speaker 3: getting the first one, two, three, four picks or whatever,
Speaker 3: and there's a certain order of things. There are trades.
Speaker 3: It is truly a fantasy draft with millions upon millions,
Speaker 3: if not more, dollars of implications. Be it headline games
Speaker 3: within the Big Ten, non conference games. Explain to people
Speaker 3: what a TV game draft is in twenty twenty five
Speaker 3: in the Big Ten, all.
Speaker 2: Right, the Big Ten has probably the most unique television
Speaker 2: media partner experience of any of the networks. Now you
Speaker 2: have the SEC that's an ACC mostly is locked in
Speaker 2: with ESPN, say for a couple of games on the
Speaker 2: CW for the ACC. The Big Ten has three major
Speaker 2: linear partners, Fox, which is the priority number one, and
Speaker 2: then kind of an equality relationship with CBS and NBC.
Speaker 2: Fox has leaned into its Big noon kickoff, which has
Speaker 2: aggravated a lot of Ohio State and Penn State fans
Speaker 2: over especially the last few years. But over time CBS
Speaker 2: has moved its SEC on CBS Midday to now the
Speaker 2: Big Ten, and then NBC has carved out its role
Speaker 2: as a prime time network for the Big Ten on
Speaker 2: Saturday nights. So the draft process includes those three entities
Speaker 2: plus BTN, which has scattered picks later in the draft,
Speaker 2: and what they do is they agree on a day.
Speaker 2: This year was April thirtieth, and they're all separate. They're
Speaker 2: not in one room. Man, I wish they were in
Speaker 2: one room.
Speaker 3: That'd be so cool in Macau.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I bet if you're you know, NBC
Speaker 2: can say can we stream this on Peacock or you know, Fox,
Speaker 2: can we put this on FS one? Sure, CBS Sports Network.
Speaker 2: I mean, Btn, this would have been great, but uh no,
Speaker 2: they're they're they're different campuses, kind of scattered throughout like
Speaker 2: and it's kind of funny because Fox has like every
Speaker 2: there's like three or four people in each one that
Speaker 2: are in you know, in that are very much intimately
Speaker 2: involved in this process. But like Foxes are on Zoom
Speaker 2: with each other, and then they handle the picks via email.
Speaker 2: So it just sounds so it's almost like the old
Speaker 2: signing day send it through the fax machine thing. It's like,
Speaker 2: we got all this technology and we're doing it through
Speaker 2: email and that. But they said, look, we used to
Speaker 2: do it on a conference call. That got really boring,
Speaker 2: so we decided let's, uh, let's do it this way,
Speaker 2: but still slack channels, at least with a Slack channel,
Speaker 2: you could see so and so is typing, so you're like, okay,
Speaker 2: here we go. But how it's kind of set up
Speaker 2: after that is that the league determines the draft order
Speaker 2: and they place a number with every pick for every
Speaker 2: game going all the way to the end, which I
Speaker 2: think is I want to say, like one hundred and
Speaker 2: twenty three or something to that effect that were available.
Speaker 2: They already pull out the Friday night games and those
Speaker 2: are in a different category, so they've already dispersed them.
Speaker 2: But then when they go from number one, Fox as
Speaker 2: the primary rights holder, has the first three picks. Then
Speaker 2: it goes and then the next four are NBC CBS,
Speaker 2: and it depends on the year, Like last year, NBC
Speaker 2: was five, CBS was four, and NBC made a trade
Speaker 2: to get up to number three, and so there's trades
Speaker 2: that are allowed, so it's kind of cool that way. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And then Fox has eight, and then it goes you know, nine, ten,
Speaker 2: and then Fox has eleven. So they sit in this
Speaker 2: their rooms, their war rooms. CBS was at its in
Speaker 2: the conference room, NBC was out in Connecticut at its
Speaker 2: Stanford complex, and then Fox was scattered and then they
Speaker 2: start selecting So with the first three picks, uh, I
Speaker 2: believe it was I know Ohio State Michigan was number one,
Speaker 2: and Ohio State Texas was two, and I believe Ohio
Speaker 2: State Penn State was three for Fox. They're all winners.
Speaker 2: Then four this year was NBC took Oregon Penn State,
Speaker 2: and then CBS was a little more coy with who
Speaker 2: it picked because it is.
Speaker 3: That an alternating four. Do CBS and NBC alternate by
Speaker 3: the year who gets that fourth pep?
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, yeah, because like last year, it was CBS
Speaker 2: that had four and which caused NBC to jump up
Speaker 2: to five because it wanted it. It wanted Oregon Ohio State, right,
Speaker 2: and so it felt like that CBS would grab them,
Speaker 2: so instead they went ahead and jumped up there, CBA
Speaker 2: or Fox fell down to five and still got what
Speaker 2: it wanted, which was it was Ohio State, Penn State.
Speaker 2: So you know then and they already picked Michigan, Texas
Speaker 2: and Ohio State Michigan. So it's fascinating how that works.
Speaker 2: And then there's so much strategy involved that I can
Speaker 2: get into, but I'll kind of turn it over to
Speaker 2: you guys to see what questions you have about.
Speaker 3: This, Oh yeah, fair enough. So okay, let's let's go there. Strategically, Obviously,
Speaker 3: people are going to easily understand why Fox would prioritize
Speaker 3: Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Oregon. You know, take your
Speaker 3: pick of the huge schools that have played in huge games,
Speaker 3: that have huge followings, that have are proven ratings. Clydesdale's
Speaker 3: is a ratings. Clydesdale a term in the TV industry.
Speaker 3: I think it is now.
Speaker 1: I think it is now.
Speaker 3: So strategically you understand where that comes from. What's the
Speaker 3: second level of strategy. Is it just all merit based
Speaker 3: or is it week based? Is it you talked about
Speaker 3: in your column, like looking at what SEC and Big
Speaker 3: twelve and ACC games are and like even though this
Speaker 3: you know USC Notre Dame game looks appealing, it there's
Speaker 3: a good chance it's going to be up against you know, Alabama,
Speaker 3: LSU or something. So from what you could decipher, what
Speaker 3: were the second tier strategies of the networks.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'll start with let's go go with NBC. They're
Speaker 2: kind of the easiest one to read here, and that
Speaker 2: is that NBC also has a contract with Notre Dame
Speaker 2: and it's an entering. It's thirty fifth year in that
Speaker 2: treasures that one. It wants them both to be mutually
Speaker 2: beneficial and feed off one of an another. Now, the
Speaker 2: one thing that they're looking at is okay, they got
Speaker 2: a contract where they could put three Notre Dame games
Speaker 2: in prime time. Which ones matter and which ones do
Speaker 2: they feel will do the best there? And also on
Speaker 2: weeks will they matter against the Big Ten? And say,
Speaker 2: I mean, the first one was the most obvious one,
Speaker 2: and that was Texas A and M at Notre Dame
Speaker 2: because that was a garbage game day for the Big Ten.
Speaker 2: There was nothing of value. They had two Big Ten
Speaker 2: games and the only other game that was even Power
Speaker 2: five matchup was Alabama at Alabama Wisconsin and that was
Speaker 2: and then that goes to ESPN anyway, so they had
Speaker 2: their pick of nothing. So they said, this is easy.
Speaker 2: We got Marquee matchup, good weekend. We're going to take
Speaker 2: this and then deprioritize the Big Ten that week. And
Speaker 2: so they ended up moving like they picked two games
Speaker 2: for Peacock as opposed to Big NBC, and one of
Speaker 2: them was Ohio State Ohio at Ohio State. So you
Speaker 2: get you know, you get you're gonna get ratings no
Speaker 2: matter what because it's Ohio state. But it's it's Ohio.
Speaker 2: So the strategy for them is, Okay, which weeks are
Speaker 2: ratings gold for the Big Ten that we want to prioritize,
Speaker 2: which ones are devalued with Notre Dame. So that all
Speaker 2: of this is strategy that they started looking at back
Speaker 2: in December. Okay, here's the Big Ten schedule, here's Notre
Speaker 2: Dame schedule. How does this all fit and kind of
Speaker 2: make that work? And then which you know, and a
Speaker 2: couple of times then they can move like a Big
Speaker 2: Ten game to the midday on NBC and feed into
Speaker 2: the Notre Dame game. But they also aren't going to
Speaker 2: make that the priority, say number two overall, when you
Speaker 2: can have a really good primetime game and another week
Speaker 2: or two with Fox. It's a little different because they
Speaker 2: have baseball commitments. And so that's what kept them from
Speaker 2: having Friday games in late October last year. I don't
Speaker 2: know if you recall, they opened the World Series on
Speaker 2: a Friday night, Yankees Dodgers, and it was in LA.
Speaker 2: So it's perfect for them. I mean, they couldn't get
Speaker 2: gotten better because the USC Rutgers right after that with
Speaker 2: like a eleven pm easter and time kickoff, which was
Speaker 2: when you think about it, just how how horrible can
Speaker 2: you treat one of your teams to make them go
Speaker 2: all the way across the country and kick off at
Speaker 2: like eleven o'clock at night. But they did. That didn't
Speaker 2: happen this year, and two games two weeks were completely
Speaker 2: wiped out. But in the big picture, they all look
Speaker 2: at what other events are going on? How do we
Speaker 2: structure this around? The SEC is obviously one that they
Speaker 2: really weigh into, you know, like you know, one weekend
Speaker 2: that NBC really was focused on was the twenty seventh
Speaker 2: of September, which was the Oregon Penn State Game. Now
Speaker 2: it's probably going to go against Alabama Georgia. I know
Speaker 2: the time hasn't been set, but that's going to be
Speaker 2: a really you know, crazy competition as to who gets
Speaker 2: you know what kind of viewership. But they wanted to
Speaker 2: build that as a holistically as a big NBC weekend.
Speaker 2: They have the Ryder Cup and they wanted the Ryder
Speaker 2: Cup to lead into that, and then on Sunday night
Speaker 2: they have Dallas screen Bay NFL game, so they figure, wow,
Speaker 2: we could really make this a big NBC weekend and
Speaker 2: build everything around it. So that was part of their strategy,
Speaker 2: and then the Big Ten stays out of it, but
Speaker 2: they kind of nudge some things around, and that was
Speaker 2: one where they thought, you know, this might be a
Speaker 2: good one for NBC. You know, we're not gonna say Fox,
Speaker 2: don't take it, but you know it'd be kind of
Speaker 2: cool if you left it lifted for NBC on this one.
Speaker 2: There are some strategies though, for Fox that are complicated
Speaker 2: because of the noon kickoff window, they can't have West
Speaker 2: Coast games there, so they're stuck, and they get stuck
Speaker 2: from time to time. We saw that last year where
Speaker 2: there was a really bad weekend in early November where
Speaker 2: maybe the best game or the second best game went
Speaker 2: to Friday night that they had. I think it was
Speaker 2: Iowa Ucla, which tells you what kind of weekend it
Speaker 2: was when we are all good. CBS had the number
Speaker 2: one pick and NBC had a Notre Dame game, and
Speaker 2: there was like two other games on the West coast. Oh,
Speaker 2: I know it was it was a Penn State. Washington
Speaker 2: was Penn State wanted that's wide out so badly that
Speaker 2: they were willing to go to Peacock for it, and
Speaker 2: at night, which prevented that, CBS had the first pick,
Speaker 2: and it was Michigan Indiana. And then there was another
Speaker 2: West Coast game, so they for Big Noon they had
Speaker 2: their choice of Rutgers Minnesota or Ohio State Perdue. And
Speaker 2: they're like, well, we're going to go Ohio State because
Speaker 2: it's Ohio State. You can play scrimmage there and get
Speaker 2: better rings than probably the other game. And and then
Speaker 2: you know, when Ohio State fans got mad, it's like, well,
Speaker 2: what are you supposed to do here? Right? And so
Speaker 2: though they're kind of hemmed in on some of this,
Speaker 2: but but they do have, you know, some strategic ideas.
Speaker 2: And then CBS is more about kind of looking across
Speaker 2: at the SEC. They know they're going to go up
Speaker 2: against a decent SEC game, but you know they also
Speaker 2: want to, you know, try to build around whatever they
Speaker 2: do on the weekend as well.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm getting such big fantasy draft vibes from
Speaker 1: this whole thing. I'm giggling like an idiot over here
Speaker 1: because it reminds me of drafts that I had back
Speaker 1: in like two thousand and five. I can only imagine
Speaker 1: what that's like, waiting for the email to come in,
Speaker 1: trying to then plot what your next move is.
Speaker 2: Was there anything that.
Speaker 1: Surprised you, Like I heard email as the primary medium
Speaker 1: for this that surprised me. You reported the story, Are
Speaker 1: there any other items of note that surprised you?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that part did too, because you think of all
Speaker 2: the wet bays. You know, we're communicating. Everybody else's communicating
Speaker 2: face to face, and you'd think that they'd have it,
Speaker 2: you know, in some sort of fashion that way. Now
Speaker 2: we're going to go email. That was a little strange,
Speaker 2: you know, but you know it's like, well, what are
Speaker 2: you going to text each other? I guess that'd probably
Speaker 2: be even easier. But they all kind of had their
Speaker 2: little funny moments talking about it. One was like, it's
Speaker 2: you know, there's no chimes that go no, you know,
Speaker 2: here's the or anything like that. One of the things
Speaker 2: that I talked about I didn't quite get in the
Speaker 2: story that I thought was really interesting. I said, were
Speaker 2: there ever any moments where you were like, yes, we
Speaker 2: got this game, or oh man, we just we were
Speaker 2: waiting on that one.
Speaker 3: Can't believe they sell to us.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, we all do that in fantasy football every year.
Speaker 2: You're like, oh, god, one, you know, and they're like, yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 2: and they're like, you know, our stomach's churning, we're sweating,
Speaker 2: we're you know, and then it comes to us and
Speaker 2: we yell and then we don't if we don't get it.
Speaker 2: We we were really frustrated visibly.
Speaker 3: Is there a time limit, by the way on the picks? Like,
Speaker 3: did they have to send an email within twenty minutes?
Speaker 3: There was nothing, no limit.
Speaker 2: No, there's no countdown, there's no clock, I asked. I said,
Speaker 2: it's insane, but busted like Minnesota did to be back
Speaker 2: in the you know, ten twenty years.
Speaker 3: Agoah, you should be forced to auto draft Rutgers Minnesota
Speaker 3: if the pick isn't in like drafting the wrong Adrian
Speaker 3: Peterson from the Bears.
Speaker 1: Yeah, an all time troll of a move.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The other thing I wanted to ask Scott, like to
Speaker 1: that end, did you hear anything of there being a
Speaker 1: particular game that was selected earlier than expected? Is so
Speaker 1: called reach because we all do that in fantasy football
Speaker 1: as well. Right, there's a guy that you're kind of
Speaker 1: fixated on for whatever reason, Bondie, Like sometimes at defies logic.
Speaker 1: Were there any of those or is just like cold
Speaker 1: hard numbers that are driving these decisions.
Speaker 2: There wasn't anything like that. And here's why, because once
Speaker 2: you get past the big games, they draft weekends, right,
Speaker 2: So let's that and that's where they actually do their
Speaker 2: best work. Probably because anybody can say, well, yeah, we
Speaker 2: want Texas and Ohio State or we want Oregon Penn State.
Speaker 2: I mean that makes sense. You know, you get wide
Speaker 2: out in Happy Valley, two teams played for the championship.
Speaker 2: You know that's going to sell like crazy. But then
Speaker 2: you start to get into some other weeks where we're
Speaker 2: looking at it, you know, three and a half four
Speaker 2: months in advance, and we're going, okay, who's you know what,
Speaker 2: which games are going to stand out? Well, let's take
Speaker 2: like October eleventh, for instance, and you've got you know,
Speaker 2: some really good games Ohio State at Illinois. That could
Speaker 2: be you could have two teams in the top ten
Speaker 2: potentially if Illinois, you know, comes to play, or if
Speaker 2: Illinois goes back to being Illinois. Before you know, they
Speaker 2: could be losing to Indiana and a couple other teams
Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, you're going, yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: we don't want to draft them in Iowa, Wisconsin. You know,
Speaker 2: maybe Wisconsin gets off the mat and maybe Iowa was
Speaker 2: good with Mark Gronowski and all of a sudden that's
Speaker 2: a hey, you know, it's a camp Randall. Maybe we
Speaker 2: want this to be primetime or something. And then you're
Speaker 2: like a, you know, Michigan USC. You know, is it
Speaker 2: the Michigan USC we saw last year or is it
Speaker 2: the Michigan USC from two years ago? Indiana, Oregon? Same thing?
Speaker 2: You know? Is this? You know, is IU do they
Speaker 2: go and they beat Illinois and Iowa or are they
Speaker 2: you know, just kind of fall back to the pack,
Speaker 2: you know, And that's why you draft the weekends. And
Speaker 2: what one of the strategies that pretty much all of
Speaker 2: them have told me is like, it's not so much
Speaker 2: to be number one, it's to make sure you're not
Speaker 2: number three on a bad weekend. Because now all of
Speaker 2: those games are are legitimate. You know, there's probably four
Speaker 2: decent games, and then there's a couple others that might
Speaker 2: fit into that too, like a you know, UCLA, Michigan State.
Speaker 2: Who knows, you know, maybe Nico is great and Aidan
Speaker 2: Chiles is great, and that's that fits in there too,
Speaker 2: but you just don't want to all of a sudden
Speaker 2: go oh man, we got stuck with a really bad
Speaker 2: game and kind of like what Fox did.
Speaker 3: So as to say when you when you're saying, when
Speaker 3: you draft a weekend, it's at a certain point there
Speaker 3: they own the right to prioritize a match up that weekend.
Speaker 3: When when do they select? It's a two week window.
Speaker 3: When is the selection?
Speaker 2: It's a twelve day and a six day Okay, you know,
Speaker 2: so they're all every week is given that twelve day priority,
Speaker 2: but I believe it's twice per year that they could
Speaker 2: wait until six days it to be like the Sunday morning,
Speaker 2: and that's predicated on the results on that Saturday. You know,
Speaker 2: you might get you know late in the year. You know,
Speaker 2: there's a couple of games that really, you know, kind
Speaker 2: of stand out and you're thinking, you know, do we
Speaker 2: want you know, like after the Ohio State Penn State result,
Speaker 2: you know what, maybe Ohio State's undefeat and you're like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I know they're playing Perdue, but that's still Ohio State.
Speaker 2: Or maybe Penn State pulls the upset and plays Indiana
Speaker 2: and that's our number one you just you want to
Speaker 2: wait until that result takes place. So I did. I
Speaker 2: did ask specifically though, what were the games that really
Speaker 2: caused you that ah moment and or the or the anguish?
Speaker 2: And they were they said, we had them, but I'm
Speaker 2: not going to tell you which ones they work. So
Speaker 2: of course that's gamesmanship, right, Yeah, yeah, exactly, Scott. With
Speaker 2: respect to the whole Big Noon thing, love it or
Speaker 2: hate it, Fox has clearly made a brand out of it.
Speaker 1: It is its own product. Now, everybody who follows college
Speaker 1: football sort of knows what's going on in that world.
Speaker 1: What do the other network people think of it? Because
Speaker 1: as a fan, clearly we understand why it's frustrating. But
Speaker 1: from a network perspective, as we've come to know now
Speaker 1: these last five years or so, their view of the
Speaker 1: college football world tends to be a bit warped and
Speaker 1: through a different lens than the rest of us. Did
Speaker 1: you get any commentary on that front?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean from Fox they loved it. And the
Speaker 2: reason why is it's fertile territory. We always kind of
Speaker 2: grew up, especially a big ten country. It's like, all right,
Speaker 2: you've got you know, Beth Mowens and Pam War doing
Speaker 2: the ESPN two game or you know you're got you
Speaker 2: know it's perdue Northwestern and but the kind of the
Speaker 2: Big ten mindset all these years was Moon is Week
Speaker 2: two thirty was the Golden era, and then three or
Speaker 2: four or five times you get that primetime game and
Speaker 2: you're really excited about it. Well everything is completely changed.
Speaker 2: I mean all the windows are open. You know, you've
Speaker 2: got FCS versus Big ten teams in prime time. But
Speaker 2: when it comes to Big Noone in particular, Fox is
Speaker 2: leaned in on it because they felt like, you know,
Speaker 2: especially four or five years ago, it's like, well, we're
Speaker 2: gonna have to go against the best SEC game in
Speaker 2: the midday. They tried that. It didn't really work. Prime
Speaker 2: Time is the same type of deal. You you know,
Speaker 2: you're going to go up against a great game there.
Speaker 2: But noon people are just finishing up their game day
Speaker 2: show and it's like, wow, here's a really good game
Speaker 2: to start your day. And it works. The ratings are
Speaker 2: high for it, you know. They One of the things
Speaker 2: that Mulda Hill told me Mike Mulda Hill from Fox is, look,
Speaker 2: you could take out the top three team games we
Speaker 2: picked last year and we still had a higher average
Speaker 2: big ten numbers than everybody else, and I'm like, okay,
Speaker 2: you know Ohio State, Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, and
Speaker 2: Michigan Texas. He removed those three and they still have
Speaker 2: high numbers, so they're going to lean into it. They
Speaker 2: do respect though, that some the schools don't like it
Speaker 2: or don't like it that often. And that's what we
Speaker 2: saw with the Texas Ohio State situation that went down
Speaker 2: that you know, opening weekend, Labor Day weekend. They figured, hey,
Speaker 2: that even though that Sunday night I think has Miami
Speaker 2: Notre Dame, they wanted to move that into prime time
Speaker 2: on a Sunday night, and Ohio State was all for it,
Speaker 2: you know, special nights, you know, fertile territory. They don't
Speaker 2: have a game against anybody of value the next week.
Speaker 2: Then uh, but Texas, which was contractedly contractually right, said no,
Speaker 2: we don't want to do that, and so then it
Speaker 2: got moved back to be to noon. But what they're
Speaker 2: trying to do is show that they are making efforts
Speaker 2: to help the schools out and that's that's It's gonna
Speaker 2: be an ongoing process. And I think what the skit
Speaker 2: the league did this year a little bit better job
Speaker 2: was of its kind of week by week is it's
Speaker 2: not leaving Ohio State out there hanging. I think there's
Speaker 2: some other games that they can plug because as I
Speaker 2: said that, you know, you if you had like one
Speaker 2: of the week's Iowa Oregon, you couldn't have it at
Speaker 2: Big Noon, but if now you can because it's in
Speaker 2: Iowa City. It's just kind of those differences.
Speaker 3: You mentioned the Rutgers eleven pm local kickoff last year,
Speaker 3: which is insane to still think about. I had completely forgotten.
Speaker 3: I remember that there was a doubleheader, but the timing
Speaker 3: escaped me. Were there any other errors that networks were
Speaker 3: looking to correct. Were there lessons learned from previous drafts
Speaker 3: that they said, Okay, I am never again going to
Speaker 3: prioritize this kind of game or this week or this
Speaker 3: scheduling strategy.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The one that really crept up to them that
Speaker 2: you know, there were a few, but one that stood
Speaker 2: out immediately when they got feedback on was last year
Speaker 2: with Michigan State. Michigan State played on peacock on a
Speaker 2: Saturday night at home against Ohio State and then had
Speaker 2: to turn around that Friday and play Oregon on the road,
Speaker 2: and so you had a six day window against two
Speaker 2: of the top you know, two or three teams in
Speaker 2: the country, and you know, and you have the other
Speaker 2: factors that they really don't throw in there, like brand
Speaker 2: new coach and but but to expect the team to
Speaker 2: go out there and play that type of opponent, you know,
Speaker 2: six days apart, was really unfair, they felt, and Michigan
Speaker 2: State expressed that, and then they look back and said, okay,
Speaker 2: and then a few of the other things that they're
Speaker 2: working on as they go as best that they can.
Speaker 2: Is while Ohio State had its last six games upear
Speaker 2: on noon, five of which on big noon you know,
Speaker 2: Wiscon or Michigan State I think had five night games.
Speaker 2: Iowa had four or five night games and uh, you know,
Speaker 2: three of which I think in November. So you had
Speaker 2: a kind of a skewed view. So they're they're trying
Speaker 2: to figure out how to you know, slowly, you know,
Speaker 2: not have so many night games from one team and
Speaker 2: maybe be able to push Ohio State into the into
Speaker 2: the primetime a little bit more often. So those were
Speaker 2: some of the the takeaways that they had from their scheduling,
Speaker 2: and you know, but there are some things they just
Speaker 2: can't get away from, which is the travel component. Now
Speaker 2: that you're on the West coast, it's gonna be difficult.
Speaker 2: They've tried to adjust it, and this is the second
Speaker 2: year of a fourteen week season, and so next year
Speaker 2: they're gonna have to redo this. But where the West
Speaker 2: coast teams, they don't play two road games. If they
Speaker 2: go east, you know, they'll go you know, USC goes
Speaker 2: to Illinois, then a couple of weeks, then they go
Speaker 2: home and they either have a buy or they have
Speaker 2: a home game, you know, something like that, as opposed to, Okay,
Speaker 2: you're going to Illinois, you fly back and then you're
Speaker 2: going to Rutgers or something like that. That's just so,
Speaker 2: but it's difficult, you know, to do that with this
Speaker 2: kind of inventory.
Speaker 1: Do you think that by giving this whole process a
Speaker 1: little bit more visibility, you have inadvertently turned it into
Speaker 1: more of a production.
Speaker 2: I was just looking for something interesting to write this
Speaker 2: time of the year.
Speaker 1: Because this is not uncommon. This is not uncommon when
Speaker 1: somebody sheds a little light on anything, really, especially something
Speaker 1: that I think has roots in the fantasy draft culture
Speaker 1: that we all know and love from you know, kurrent
Speaker 1: her previous lives. It would not be out of the
Speaker 1: realm of possibilities that next year or at some point
Speaker 1: in the future, this becomes more of a talking point,
Speaker 1: more of a production, more of a thing that college
Speaker 1: football fans can watch and cheer on and you know,
Speaker 1: set their watch.
Speaker 2: By Oh, I'm sure they're going to get a few
Speaker 2: people who ask me when is the draft wins are
Speaker 2: going to be held? And it varies by the year.
Speaker 2: It's not a you know, it was like the Wednesday
Speaker 2: after the NFL Draft this year, and sometimes it's a
Speaker 2: little earlier, sometimes it's a little later. But I'm sure, yeah,
Speaker 2: next spring that's going to be a topic everybody. When
Speaker 2: is it going to be held? When are they going
Speaker 2: to do it? And then afterwards, I know, am I
Speaker 2: going to try to get intel like it was one
Speaker 2: of those old fashioned basketball secret scrimmage where you're calling
Speaker 2: the assistant coaches, so who did what?
Speaker 3: You could be the mel.
Speaker 2: Kuiper of this could be you know, I mean, I
Speaker 2: need my hair is disappearing in the back, so I
Speaker 2: need some slickness to it.
Speaker 3: But I mean, the only the only problem with that is,
Speaker 3: of course people look at TV as ruining the sport,
Speaker 3: and so then we're going to highlight TV networks who
Speaker 3: people hold accountable for changes in the sport and all
Speaker 3: being driven by TV money and sort of making celebrities
Speaker 3: out of them, Like we're hosting a like egg price
Speaker 3: raising TV show. Obviously I would watch that, but no,
Speaker 3: it's sort of an interesting, you know, part of the sport.
Speaker 3: Of course, I wonder with with the draft, with you
Speaker 3: mentioning the schedule changes and the feedback that the conference
Speaker 3: got and the network got. I wonder where this is
Speaker 3: going with regard to networks and getting games, and like
Speaker 3: the one of the byproducts of the TV deal is
Speaker 3: like we're getting CBS games network television games or NBC
Speaker 3: primetime games that never would have existed because it was
Speaker 3: a three and six team against a four and five
Speaker 3: team and it would have been relegated to the Big
Speaker 3: ten network. But these are the slots that you know,
Speaker 3: NBC and CBS have, Like are they a little bit
Speaker 3: upset about putting an uninspiring matchup on prime time airwaves?
Speaker 3: Like is there any sort of buyer's remorse about either
Speaker 3: NBC and CBS and their place in the Big ten
Speaker 3: TV deal or are they just thrilled to have live
Speaker 3: football because it'll do enough of a rating that even
Speaker 3: though on the face having you know, two non Bowl
Speaker 3: teams play again on primetime network TV seems weird, but
Speaker 3: you know, is it still a win.
Speaker 2: Ultimately it's a win for them because of the ratings
Speaker 2: are still pretty good. They're not the SEC is shown
Speaker 2: to have more depth, and I don't know if that's
Speaker 2: just team names that work better, the fact that they
Speaker 2: don't beat each other up as much and you know,
Speaker 2: have one less league game. But overall, you know, I
Speaker 2: think we've seen it, especially not so much last year,
Speaker 2: but the year before there were some primetime games you're like,
Speaker 2: you see you know, you know, but now that they
Speaker 2: have eighteen teams, it kind of gets spread out. And
Speaker 2: I think last year was somewhat unique in that that
Speaker 2: Michigan was really slow out of the gate and I
Speaker 2: lost a couple of games early, USC never really got
Speaker 2: off the mat, and we didn't know how good Indiana
Speaker 2: and Illinois were until the season was really progressing. So
Speaker 2: now kind of going into this season, we think Illinois
Speaker 2: could be a top fifteen team. It should be a
Speaker 2: top fifteen team anyway, coming out of the and then
Speaker 2: maybe maybe they're gonna be good Indiana. Can they do it?
Speaker 2: Repeat it, and I will finally put together an offense.
Speaker 2: And then you got your your blue bloods and teams
Speaker 2: like Oregon that you feel like they could be something,
Speaker 2: you know, special again. So they do have better inventory.
Speaker 2: But what I could say about out the non conference
Speaker 2: schedule is that absolutely has to change or they have
Speaker 2: to change the schedule to accommodate the networks, because they
Speaker 2: did have to provide an exemption to Fox in week
Speaker 2: two because there was nothing there at all. All there
Speaker 2: all the Big Tens road games were all the Big
Speaker 2: Ten's major games were on the road, and so they
Speaker 2: only had what two games that they controlled pitting Power
Speaker 2: conference teams that that Saturday. One was Boston College at
Speaker 2: Michigan State, which is a nice game. Maybe one team
Speaker 2: goes to a bowlgang, Yeah, but that that goes to NBC,
Speaker 2: so that kind of vaults the top. And then the
Speaker 2: other one is Oklahoma State at Oregon, which when it
Speaker 2: was made looked like a great game. Oklahoma State obviously
Speaker 2: went to nine and the Big Twelve last year, so
Speaker 2: that changes things. But there was nothing left for Fox.
Speaker 2: You know, they were strongly considering opening up with well,
Speaker 2: at least because Ohio State's playing Grambling, you can't really
Speaker 2: go there, you know. And then Michigan's at Oklahoma, so
Speaker 2: then you're going, well, Penn State's at home, they're playing
Speaker 2: but they're playing FIU. What are we doing here? So
Speaker 2: they got an exemption because they decided, you know, they
Speaker 2: still have a Big twelve contract, and Iowa plays Iowa State,
Speaker 2: and that's to day the kirk Farans can pass Woody
Speaker 2: Hayes as the winning his coach in Big Ten history.
Speaker 2: It's too you know, it's a Big ten team at
Speaker 2: a Big twelve team, a rivalry game. It's you know,
Speaker 2: they can do big noon kickoff. So instead of playing
Speaker 2: it at like four, which is what the plan was,
Speaker 2: they said, we just moved this into our noon time slot.
Speaker 2: And then they ended up saying okay and did that.
Speaker 2: But but in the future, the Big Ten is going
Speaker 2: to have to start going to these teams and because
Speaker 2: what's funny to me is that thirteen out of the
Speaker 2: eighteen actually played ten Power five opponents, you know, so
Speaker 2: they've actually got decent non conference schedules for that part.
Speaker 2: But they've got to do something about the scheduling itself.
Speaker 2: They can't just have these free weekends when you have
Speaker 2: three linear partners. It's one thing if you're the SEC
Speaker 2: and you can put it on ESPN two when you're
Speaker 2: playing Memphis and Oldness or something like that, but you
Speaker 2: know you can't put NBC, you know, acron A Nebraska.
Speaker 2: You know, it's just is this not going to work?
Speaker 3: Were there any I don't know how to describe this
Speaker 3: like draft crushes. Obviously there are the games early that
Speaker 3: people are selecting, not early necessarily, but the picks are
Speaker 3: early that involve, you know, the big headline ratings, Monster ratings,
Speaker 3: Clydesdale teams. Is it apparent that any of these networks
Speaker 3: are sort of buying low or think bigger things about
Speaker 3: a specific team, like a CBS like very bullish on Nebraska,
Speaker 3: or is Fox like it was there any sort of
Speaker 3: apparent like, hey, this team might not be super attractive
Speaker 3: right now, but we think they could have a special
Speaker 3: season and we might be getting a big value play
Speaker 3: by circling our wagons around this team.
Speaker 2: I think when you go to week four that they've
Speaker 2: got that kind of setup right now, and that's the
Speaker 2: CBS going with deciding already to announce it. Michigan at
Speaker 2: Nebraska in the midday. I think they're playing that one
Speaker 2: of those two teams, the winner of those two teams
Speaker 2: is going to make a play. And Michigan, of course
Speaker 2: is a ratings goliath. Nebraska is also pretty good despite
Speaker 2: its you know, lack of success over the years recent years.
Speaker 2: So I think they're they're figuring great atmosphere at Nebraska
Speaker 2: as it always is. Michigan, your two name programs winner
Speaker 2: is going to get a bump, They're going to be ranked,
Speaker 2: They're probably you know, and I think both teams could
Speaker 2: could be ranked even if Michigan loses at Oklahoma. And
Speaker 2: so I think that's where they really kind of drew
Speaker 2: the line because there's also some pretty good games too
Speaker 2: that are available. CBS also took as part of its
Speaker 2: Pack two coverage Washington and Washington State, so it leads
Speaker 2: into the Apple Cup. But then under Big ten control,
Speaker 2: you've got Illinois and Indiana, which I think is going
Speaker 2: to be a fantastic game, and Oregon at Oregon State.
Speaker 2: I mean, it may not be very good, but it's
Speaker 2: still a rivalry game the Civil War. And Michigan State
Speaker 2: at USC. I think that's also intriguing to me. So,
Speaker 2: but by announcing those two that game early, I think
Speaker 2: it really signifies that they are there. They're all in
Speaker 2: on the winner going forward, and they play it all
Speaker 2: the way out where they picked Nebraska Iowa on Black
Speaker 2: Friday as well.
Speaker 1: Scott, How many people are involved in an operation such
Speaker 1: as this, because as we're talking this through, I'm thinking
Speaker 1: of what we go through when we're trying to preview
Speaker 1: teams in advance of a season. I'm sure everybody kind
Speaker 1: of in our world does something similar.
Speaker 2: It's hard.
Speaker 1: There's a million data points that you have to try
Speaker 1: and consider just when figuring out which teams do we like,
Speaker 1: which players do we like, which storylines are worth following
Speaker 1: and mentioning to the audience. But then you have to
Speaker 1: layer on top of it the added math of this
Speaker 1: team brings in X million of an audience each time
Speaker 1: they play, Like, there's that whole other, like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: quantitative level of this with respect to TV that you
Speaker 1: have to try and factor in as well. Were there
Speaker 1: different approaches to preparation to putting together those big boards?
Speaker 1: What did it look like from that standpoint?
Speaker 2: Each of the networks have about three people in their
Speaker 2: war rooms, you know, and and they're the head of
Speaker 2: programming for sports. I talked to each one of them
Speaker 2: who really made the final call, and and then a
Speaker 2: couple other people who really handled that sport specifically, are
Speaker 2: you know, intimately evolved. And they go through war games
Speaker 2: starting in December when the Big ten announced, it's great,
Speaker 2: it's it's it's pretty cool that they, like NBC told me, look,
Speaker 2: we split our teams up, and then we had other
Speaker 2: people with those teams, and it's like, you go in
Speaker 2: this room today, your Fox. You go in this room today,
Speaker 2: you're CBS, and we're going to be NBC, and we're
Speaker 2: going to try to figure out what their ideas and
Speaker 2: their strategies are. And then you look around, Okay, well
Speaker 2: they've got the World Series this week, so they're not
Speaker 2: gonna think about you know something here, you know, or
Speaker 2: well they've you know, they've got Notre Dame at night,
Speaker 2: so we're going to focus on a really big game
Speaker 2: earlier in the day. So they're trying to kind of
Speaker 2: figure all that out, and then they go through multiple
Speaker 2: mock drafts. They said that almost weekly, and then it
Speaker 2: comes down to almost daily as they get closer, because
Speaker 2: they just want to figure out how it plays out,
Speaker 2: so ultimately they don't get surprised. That's what they really want.
Speaker 2: And and but so it's really sounds like that, you know,
Speaker 2: Moli Hill's like, I don't. I've never been in an
Speaker 2: inside an NFL war room, but it kind of feels
Speaker 2: like it, you know, because they because they just play
Speaker 2: this scenario out so much and then they get their
Speaker 2: their selections and it's it's kind of funny. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's kind of like with the NFL draft when you
Speaker 2: play a mock draft and you're like, you know, that's
Speaker 2: not that hard. You know, we can just pick this
Speaker 2: thing here. But when you're talking about the difference between
Speaker 2: you know, looking at the tangible numbers not just wins
Speaker 2: and losses and how good this team is, but also
Speaker 2: TV numbers, and then the thing that they all kind
Speaker 2: of express that's been the most challenging for them is
Speaker 2: now with the portal that they're trying to follow the
Speaker 2: moves and who's adding, who's going where? You know, what
Speaker 2: does this team look like? Is if you're talking about
Speaker 2: ten years ago and Ohio State lost all of its
Speaker 2: players fifteen to the NFL and draft picks and everything else.
Speaker 2: You might say, yeah, they're due for a down year.
Speaker 2: Now they reloaded. You know, they've already got a lot
Speaker 2: of talent, but you know they reloaded. Can you know,
Speaker 2: and they're looking at each and every team like, wow,
Speaker 2: can Mark Ronowski really take this team from you know,
Speaker 2: offensively being challenged in Iowa City to maybe, you know, hey,
Speaker 2: they're playing Oregon, they're playing Indiana, they're playing Penn State
Speaker 2: all at home. Maybe that's something we want to eye on.
Speaker 2: Is this something we think can happen? You know? And
Speaker 2: then they're reading everybody's you know, reporting and whatever. So
Speaker 2: they're analyzing this so deeply that you know that actually
Speaker 2: kind of came off as a surprise, you know, because
Speaker 2: you'd think that they cared and they it have mattered,
Speaker 2: but man, they really they go all in on this.
Speaker 3: Are there any risks and this sounds silly, I grant you,
Speaker 3: are there any risks of corporate espionage, which, by the way,
Speaker 3: I haven't not heard, like there are whispers that you know,
Speaker 3: the sort of subtext of all of this is this
Speaker 3: is all happening in a broader Disney Fox like shadow battle,
Speaker 3: right with the big ten in the SEC one. I
Speaker 3: think there's like currently a Disney YouTube TV lawsuit over
Speaker 3: an executive leaving Disney for YouTube TV. And then there's
Speaker 3: like you know, proprietary, non disclosure, non compete types of
Speaker 3: things going on, like have there ever been Maybe you
Speaker 3: don't know the answer to this question, That's fine. This
Speaker 3: is just me asking like poaching potential of like Fox
Speaker 3: trying to take an NBC person or vice versa, because
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, now you don't need a scout
Speaker 3: team running, you know, backup quarterback as Cordell Stewart. You
Speaker 3: actually have somebody who understands the Fox mindset or the
Speaker 3: NBC mindset. Has has that been a part of this
Speaker 3: at all? Behind the scenes, There haven't been any moves.
Speaker 2: I did ask a little bit kind of not quite
Speaker 2: espionage term, but you know about some of the strategies
Speaker 2: and whether they you know, do you guys afterwards you
Speaker 2: get together and you you know, over drinks and just go, man,
Speaker 2: I can't believe you took this or right there has
Speaker 2: a been there he's he's They're like, you know, we're
Speaker 2: all colleagues, we're all friends, we all get along, but
Speaker 2: you know, we're also competitors, and we also have our
Speaker 2: own little thoughts that we don't want to share. So
Speaker 2: they don't quite rehash the draft necessarily. Maybe they will
Speaker 2: pick or two here and there.
Speaker 1: But.
Speaker 2: Nothing, as far as I would say, is espionage. But
Speaker 2: I can see where it could happen.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know when you look at.
Speaker 2: You know, for instance, you let the like a Notre
Speaker 2: Dame game at night, and then you somehow find a
Speaker 2: way if you're Notre Dame, Hey, we're also we're going
Speaker 2: to use a high pick on that week, so we're
Speaker 2: going to leave everybody's you know, we're gonna have the
Speaker 2: best uh you know pick that week leading into the
Speaker 2: Notre Dame game. You're like, dude, what are you doing?
Speaker 2: You know, you're not even having your big ten game
Speaker 2: in prime time or you're going to move it to
Speaker 2: Peacock or something like that that you know, they're opportunities
Speaker 2: for it for sure, and I hope I find out
Speaker 2: about them it's really did happen, And oh man, I
Speaker 2: can't wait.
Speaker 3: That would be an incredible story. And I would imagine
Speaker 3: there are very few people who are going to have
Speaker 3: the sources and access more so than you. My final
Speaker 3: question is about the story you wrote today, which I
Speaker 3: you know, it definitely ties into everything we've spoken about before.
Speaker 3: But you mentioned Jim Delaney's stance as it relates to scheduling,
Speaker 3: as it relates to positioning team to look good in
Speaker 3: the eyes of the College Football Playoff Committee Selection committee,
Speaker 3: and the reported Tony Petiti pitch for four auto bids
Speaker 3: for the Big Ten as opposed to the five plus
Speaker 3: eleven model, which I think has sort of come out
Speaker 3: after those four plus four plus two plus two plus.
Speaker 3: I can't do all the math and I head this
Speaker 3: quickly on the fly, but getting to sixteen teams and
Speaker 3: that it may the autobid element may have cost the
Speaker 3: Big Ten, which is also something that the SEC has
Speaker 3: talked about. And you know we have Greg Sanke going
Speaker 3: up on his pulpit talking about, you know, the analytics
Speaker 3: favor the SEC's road more so than anybody else is
Speaker 3: via strength of schedule. Where is the Big Ten today
Speaker 3: in terms of its preferences, how it is approaching its
Speaker 3: strategy for pitching, you know, the future of the College
Speaker 3: Football Playoff? Where does that stand and where do you
Speaker 3: expect them to land? The Big Ten in terms of preferences?
Speaker 2: First of all, the Big Ten needs to start talking.
Speaker 2: This has been this is been going on for too long.
Speaker 2: And Tony Pettitt likes working behind the scenes. He doesn't
Speaker 2: really like being out there vocal, whereas Greg Sank he
Speaker 2: has no problem with it. But you know, they're taking
Speaker 2: up all the oxygen and there's they've changed the narrative
Speaker 2: the SEC in the Big Ten. A couple of months ago,
Speaker 2: I was in New Orleans when they had their Divide
Speaker 2: the World sum at Part two and it was like
Speaker 2: they were, you know, they're in lockstep in a lot
Speaker 2: of areas. And now it just seems like the SEC
Speaker 2: is kind of back to this being, you know, having
Speaker 2: its swagger out there and this is why we think
Speaker 2: it should be, and the Big Ten is kind of
Speaker 2: taking a step back from the forefront and kind of
Speaker 2: you know, seated that ground. And then you have the
Speaker 2: ACC and Big Twelve saying well, yeah, it should be
Speaker 2: five plus two, you know eleven, that's that's the fairest
Speaker 2: way to do it. Well, you know, I would say
Speaker 2: that the Big Ten had the reason why it's not
Speaker 2: wholeheardly embracing this and actually I put the numbers between
Speaker 2: what it would be if but the current constitution, because
Speaker 2: it's kind of hard to go back and forth, but
Speaker 2: the current team constitution over the last four years one
Speaker 2: versus the other, and the really the the strategy is
Speaker 2: that they have a lot of PTSD from what happened
Speaker 2: ten years ago and this was and they would have
Speaker 2: First of all, they would have gotten more teams in
Speaker 2: at five plus eleven. Then they would have at the
Speaker 2: guarantees that they're asking for. But the other part is
Speaker 2: in twenty fifteen, Jim Delaney decided, since we're in a
Speaker 2: playoff era, we're going to position our teams the best
Speaker 2: possible way to be competitive to not only make the playoff,
Speaker 2: but also make New Year six Bulls, which were a
Speaker 2: little bit more important than they are today, I mean
Speaker 2: from that perspective. And so he unveiled this what he
Speaker 2: called nineteen ten. You know, a numerical acronym. You know
Speaker 2: that they're playing one championship game, nine Big ten games
Speaker 2: because they were at eight one intersectional opponent or which
Speaker 2: would be just a non power conference team, and then
Speaker 2: no FCS opponents. He figured that would provide them with
Speaker 2: the strength of schedule to put them in the In
Speaker 2: the conversation every year for not only the playoff, but
Speaker 2: then also for major bowl games, and a couple of
Speaker 2: years in it got proven that that just didn't matter.
Speaker 2: And one of it was when Ohio State twice got
Speaker 2: left out as champions, and what they were looking at
Speaker 2: wasn't so much. You know, Ohio State lost one game
Speaker 2: in the Big Ten each of that seventeen and eighteen years.
Speaker 2: One was at Iowa, one was at Purdue. Both were blowouts,
Speaker 2: both were surprising. But they're also looking at it. Look,
Speaker 2: if we were at eight games and we're divisions, maybe
Speaker 2: we're not even playing that game. Maybe they're playing Grambling
Speaker 2: or they're playing Morgan State, or they're playing you know,
Speaker 2: Mercer or whatever, and so that game wouldn't have happened,
Speaker 2: and we would have been better off not playing nine
Speaker 2: as opposed to playing nine. And whereas other leagues, meaning
Speaker 2: the SEC primarily but also the ACC, you're not having
Speaker 2: that opportunity where half your team's loose. And also in
Speaker 2: the month of November, there are those non conference games
Speaker 2: against a group of five teams or FCS opponents where
Speaker 2: when you're in the middle of the season, sometimes you
Speaker 2: just you run out of gas. You're on the road,
Speaker 2: at a conference team and you get a hit with
Speaker 2: a buzzsaw, and so they were really frustrated through that.
Speaker 2: And then the one that really sent them over the
Speaker 2: top was in twenty eighteen, and this is about a
Speaker 2: bowl game. Nevertheless, Penn State get ranked twelfth. Florida was
Speaker 2: tenth l she was eleventh LS. She was way out.
Speaker 2: It was fine. Florida had two FCS opponents. They played
Speaker 2: a three and nine Georgia or three and nine Colorado
Speaker 2: State and then Florida State, which had a blow of
Speaker 2: five hundred record and it really did not have a
Speaker 2: very good schedule, but it did beat LSU. And whereas
Speaker 2: Penn State played pitt which was a Coastal Division champion,
Speaker 2: played at eleven and two Appalachian Stage, played some really
Speaker 2: good top five competition, and yet it was still ranked
Speaker 2: behind Florida. So Delaney's like, well, what do we do now,
Speaker 2: you know, how do we get this? Now? Is it
Speaker 2: all eye test? If it is all eye tests, then
Speaker 2: these are really uneven, you know. And now he's of course,
Speaker 2: you know, two commissioners removed from the Big ten. But
Speaker 2: now they look at it as we don't want to
Speaker 2: get into a situation where our nine league. Our nine
Speaker 2: game league schedule is a detriment when you're comparing to
Speaker 2: an eight league schedule. So that's why we want guarantees.
Speaker 2: We're different, we're built differently. We want it. We have
Speaker 2: nine games, they have eight. We feel like we're going
Speaker 2: to be competitive, and the numbers show that they have
Speaker 2: still gotten the same or similar numbers. In fact, they
Speaker 2: we've had fewer numbers in the in the auto bid
Speaker 2: era than they would have if it was just five
Speaker 2: plus twelve. But we feel like this is a better
Speaker 2: way for us to guarantee it. Now, if the SEC goes, okay,
Speaker 2: we're going to go to nine games and then I
Speaker 2: could then the big ten will probably come down, you know,
Speaker 2: whether it's five plus eleven or there's a little bit
Speaker 2: different guarantees set up, they would come down from that.
Speaker 2: But if the SEC doesn't go to nine games, and
Speaker 2: then it won't budge on on the guarantees.
Speaker 3: By the way, Greg Sankie did mention that those two
Speaker 3: FCS opponents that Florida played, the analytics couldn't measure heart,
Speaker 3: couldn't measure grit, and so Greg Sankie, now Greg Sankeie
Speaker 3: coincidentally did not mention that in his strength of schedule tirade,
Speaker 3: he wasn't a tirade, but his presentation, Scott doctrman, we've
Speaker 3: taken up enough of your time. Thank you so much.
Speaker 3: Everybody read. Everybody follows Scott at the athletic. He's writing
Speaker 3: terrific stuff about national college football, Big ten football, you
Speaker 3: name it, and I just I can't wait to see
Speaker 3: where the draft goes next season. Part of me hopes
Speaker 3: it's an entertainment spectacle with Fox bringing like the guy
Speaker 3: who does the voice of Homer Simpson to announce their
Speaker 3: picks in the way that like the NBA lottery bring
Speaker 3: like good luck charms, and part of me is horrified
Speaker 3: by this whole ordeal. So Scott, thank you very much
Speaker 3: for your time, and everybody check them out.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for me. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: So look, I don't know how interesting that was to
Speaker 1: people listening at home.
Speaker 3: I think it was. I think it definitely was.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I can't speak for the for baller hood. I've been
Speaker 1: on the edge of my chair for the last forty
Speaker 1: five minutes.
Speaker 2: I swallowed that interview whole.
Speaker 1: I loved every second of it, just the idea of
Speaker 1: there being a draft of these games, that there are
Speaker 1: network dorks scattered about the country via email, which I
Speaker 1: cannot stress enough. You need the patience of a dead
Speaker 1: horse to do an eight hour email draft. I have
Speaker 1: done it. It sucks, It's terrible, but it's something so
Speaker 1: nerdy and yet of such critical importance to these networks
Speaker 1: to be stick draft. I want to broadcast it next year.
Speaker 3: You want to buy the rights?
Speaker 1: We're the biggest independent college football show out there.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Can we get the rights to this with not a
Speaker 1: real rooting interest to put it up on the YouTube channel?
Speaker 1: We can get like our own media consultant, whoever to
Speaker 1: break down the numbers. I want to broadcast this thing.
Speaker 3: I want the Excel Championships and I'm bringing back Jason
Speaker 3: Bennetti to call it. I want the big ten TV draft.
Speaker 3: I want things that ESPN, the OCHOL wouldn't even consider, yes,
Speaker 3: wouldn't even consider airing. I want what's on Is there
Speaker 3: like a quilting Championships? I know there's a shilting reality
Speaker 3: show on Netflix.
Speaker 1: There's a championship for everything.
Speaker 3: I want highly. I want the the what's it called
Speaker 3: the cast Iron Cleaning championships. There has to be something
Speaker 3: like that, right, sure, restoration cast iron restoration championships. I
Speaker 3: want it all, Tie, I want it all. But yes,
Speaker 3: I think it was fasting absolutely. You know this is
Speaker 3: this is the gears and pulleys behind the scenes of
Speaker 3: how we consume this sport. So it is relevant. It
Speaker 3: is interesting to me. You know, you mentioned the fantasy
Speaker 3: draft of it all, and it is what I was
Speaker 3: also picking up vibe wise, was are you a Sidoku guy?
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say I'm a Sudoku guy, but.
Speaker 3: Like if you're on a plane and extremely bored and
Speaker 3: you know, one of your your iPad dies or something
Speaker 3: like that, and you're like, all right, I don't even
Speaker 3: know if planes have the magazine. I don't know if
Speaker 3: American Way or whatever exists anymore. But there was something
Speaker 3: the mechanics and strategy of like Okay, a three can't
Speaker 3: be here or here, but a three can go in
Speaker 3: this square, a seven can't go here, Like the piecing
Speaker 3: of that kind of strategic puzzle of like, well, we
Speaker 3: can't air because we got the World Series, We've got
Speaker 3: the Ryder Cup, we've got the whatever event, We've got
Speaker 3: this game already circled here, so we can't do this
Speaker 3: team here, or we can't air this then like there
Speaker 3: is that like moving around the nines and eights and
Speaker 3: three in twos, and you know, right like there was
Speaker 3: that strategy element is what I was picking up from
Speaker 3: him as well. So it's it's all fascinating the way,
Speaker 3: and you know, the people involved would obviously say something
Speaker 3: like it's not as interesting as you think.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sure it is.
Speaker 1: There's no way it can be, especially if it's conducted
Speaker 1: via email. There's a lot of sitting around. Scott talked
Speaker 1: about it in his piece. There's a lot of sitting around.
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's a lot of donuts. I'm sure there's
Speaker 1: a lot of small talk waiting for the email ding.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, in our little world that
Speaker 1: we've constructed here as college football fans, it kind of
Speaker 1: starts there. The season kind of starts there. All too
Speaker 1: often when a game is played, on what network it's played,
Speaker 1: who is calling the game, All of these things factor
Speaker 1: into the fan experience.
Speaker 3: It's also interesting because while you know, I sort of
Speaker 3: half joked about corporate espionage and hiring away some you know,
Speaker 3: programming person from CBS going to five and vice versa.
Speaker 3: They're all kind of on the same team here because
Speaker 3: NBC's eggs are all in Big Ten in Notre Dame.
Speaker 3: CBS's eggs are from a major conference level, I believe
Speaker 3: all on the Big ten now right without their SEC show,
Speaker 3: I don't believe they're calling ACC or Big ten games.
Speaker 3: I know they have G five conferences on CBS Sports
Speaker 3: Network and other CBS games as well on main CBS,
Speaker 3: but in terms of the major conference presence, it's Big Ten,
Speaker 3: and obviously Fox has Big Twelve, but it's bread is
Speaker 3: buttered by the Big Ten, and their investment is by
Speaker 3: far the largest into the Big Ten than any other conference.
Speaker 3: They're all kind of pulling in the same direction, right.
Speaker 3: A healthy robust ratings monster Big ten is good for
Speaker 3: everybody in these meetings, so it's not like they're really
Speaker 3: sworn enemies. Whereas when this draft was happening, when ESPN
Speaker 3: was a Big Ten partner, and ESPN has had its
Speaker 3: toes in the Big Ten, in the Pac ten to twelve,
Speaker 3: well in the ACC and the Big twelve, right, that's
Speaker 3: when I think it might have even been more cutthroats
Speaker 3: that I think battle lines were more obvious when there
Speaker 3: was the ESPN ABC element to this all, whereas like
Speaker 3: CBS just like had its big SEC game right, there
Speaker 3: were rules involved with who they could pick and not pick.
Speaker 3: You know, a team couldn't be in that spot more
Speaker 3: than a certain number of times, the three thirty spot,
Speaker 3: but like they were sort of set there. NBC had
Speaker 3: their notre ed aim and Fox and ESPN were the
Speaker 3: ones sort of playing was risk. That's the global battle
Speaker 3: for domination. I would imagine it was maybe more cutthroat
Speaker 3: than in the draft, and now it's just more of
Speaker 3: a shadow battle. I'm serious.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 3: Oh, I love this so good.
Speaker 1: I love this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to do this.
Speaker 1: Episode every year with Scott. Beautiful, beautiful. Well look, thank
Speaker 1: you to one and all for downloading, for listening, for
Speaker 1: supporting again for Ballers dot com as a Patreon if
Speaker 1: you want to further support what we do. Thanks to
Speaker 1: Scott gave us like an hour of his time here
Speaker 1: to do this and talk through not just the game
Speaker 1: draft but also the backstory with the Big ten and
Speaker 1: the four automatic bids. We're of course is going to
Speaker 1: have to see where all of that comes down. They've
Speaker 1: gotten until December the first to figure it out. It's
Speaker 1: not the last we've heard of it, but clearly the
Speaker 1: Big ten and SEC are going to be kicking up
Speaker 1: some dust on this front throughout the summer and as
Speaker 1: we get deeper into the year. So we'll cover that
Speaker 1: as best we can here on the show. Again, if
Speaker 1: you made it this far, hit follow, hit subscribe, if
Speaker 1: nothing more, we do appreciate your support. It helps us immensely.
Speaker 1: Dan all right, we've got more episodes to record today actually,
Speaker 1: as we kind of plan for the weeks that are ahead,
Speaker 1: so we'll get to doing that. We would encourage you
Speaker 1: again reach out on social media or via email soliverbal
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com if you have anything further to
Speaker 1: say or add or any thoughts to get off your chest.
Speaker 1: We've been getting a lot of them, a lot of
Speaker 1: them over the last couple weeks here, people talking about
Speaker 1: the playoff format, talking about some of the previews that
Speaker 1: we've done, their expectations for teams, and the likes.
Speaker 3: So keep them coming.
Speaker 1: We can't respond all of them, but we do read
Speaker 1: all of them and appreciate your feedback. We're getting a
Speaker 1: little bit closer, Manet, a little bit closer it's.
Speaker 3: June now, yeah, I mean I still need to find
Speaker 3: out who Quentin Nelson's booking representative is. Let's not get
Speaker 3: it twisted. June is June. But it's still feeling good.
Speaker 1: For that guy over there, my good friend Dan Rubinstein
Speaker 1: for a guest of honor today, Scott Document of the
Speaker 1: Athletic Go and check him out. We will talk to
Speaker 1: you all next week. In the meantimes, they saw it
Speaker 1: peace