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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio Saren Burnett.

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Speaker 2: It's up Elizabeth dunn not the much.

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Speaker 3: How you Be Girl, I'm Elizabeth Dutton.

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Speaker 2: I'm Elizabeth Dunton.

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Speaker 3: And do you know what's ridiculous?

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Speaker 2: I do?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, tell got a sack?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Okay. Your favorite band, Guns n' Roses. So in nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty nine they were on a world tour, right, so

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Speaker 2: that was like there for appetite destruction. I guess they're

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Speaker 2: opening right, So they get back from the road after

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Speaker 2: that tour, and then Slash has nothing to do. So

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Speaker 2: what Slash gonna do?

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Speaker 4: Well?

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Speaker 2: Apparently being on the Yeah, being on the road had

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Speaker 2: given him like a regular schedule. Without a schedule, he

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Speaker 2: falls into a really bad cocaine and heroin problem for

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Speaker 2: two years now. Apparently, as he said and I quote,

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Speaker 2: it turned out to be the start of a long

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Speaker 2: and night Marrish obsession with heroin, and it lasted from

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighty nine until nineteen ninety one. While he was

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Speaker 2: on that night Marrish obsession with heroin, he had a

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Speaker 2: particularly funny exchange. I know you're like, how can that be?

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Speaker 2: Thereon trust You'll laugh when you hear it. Dudes out

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Speaker 2: there on a binch, he's like on heroin and cocaine,

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Speaker 2: and just like you know, zooted to the high heck

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Speaker 2: and slash. He starts tripping like hallucinating. I don't know

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Speaker 2: if he hadn't been sleeping or if he's mixing in

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Speaker 2: other drugs. All I can find is definitely heroin and cocaine.

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Speaker 2: I'm imagining some other drugs in there too, possibly hadn't

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Speaker 2: eaten well, I don't know. He's hallucinating, and he starts

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Speaker 2: he's also buying you on a golf course in Arizona. Okay,

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Speaker 2: so golf course Arizona, Slash hallucinating. It's nighttime. He remembers thinking,

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Speaker 2: and I quote that he was being chased by predators

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Speaker 2: with rubbery looking dreadlocks. So these rubbery dreadlocks predators. They

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Speaker 2: also had harpoons like they were on a whaling expedition

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Speaker 2: in Arizona, and machine guns, so they had hard pones

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Speaker 2: and machine guns. He was booking, he was running right,

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Speaker 2: So then what does he do. He runs through a

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Speaker 2: glass door and then he gets into like I don't know,

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Speaker 2: like a maid in the in the golf course. He

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Speaker 2: grabs her tries to use her as a human shield

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Speaker 2: the courage, and then the police come and they stop him,

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Speaker 2: they arrest him, and he tells the whole story to

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Speaker 2: the police in vivid detail. Case. He's still tripping, so

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Speaker 2: he's telling them and I quote, I was still high

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Speaker 2: enough that I told the story without a shred of

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Speaker 2: self consciousness. Oh can you imagine, Slash tell you that.

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Speaker 3: Can?

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Speaker 2: So there you go.

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Speaker 3: See I told you, well, yeah, that is ridiculous. But

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Speaker 3: poor dear, do you know what else is ridiculous?

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Speaker 2: No, but I was hoping you did.

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Speaker 3: Accusing the victim of the very crime you've perpetrated against them?

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, this is ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: Crime.

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Speaker 3: A podcast about absurd and outrageous capers, heists and cons.

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Speaker 3: It's always ninety nine percent murder free and one hundred

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Speaker 3: percent ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: I know you heard that.

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Speaker 3: I love eccentrics.

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Speaker 2: Yeah you do. You are kind of them.

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Speaker 3: I have a book by Edith Sitwell called English Eccentrics.

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Speaker 2: Oh yes, some of the world's best.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it's wild. Princess Caribou is in the book.

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Speaker 3: We talked about her before. There are Hermits, adventurers, Charlatan's

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Speaker 3: weirdos as a weirdo. I love these folks, and there

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Speaker 3: are degrees of delusion in eccentrics, some more severe than others. True,

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Speaker 3: So I have for you today a grifter, an art forger,

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Speaker 3: a liar, a supreme eccentric talk that talk. He has,

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Speaker 3: of course, an equally eccentric wife. I mean, you have

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Speaker 3: to be a straight a sort of folly ido. Although

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Speaker 3: I don't want to wait into any like issues of

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Speaker 3: mental illness, let's stick with eccentric for now. His name

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Speaker 3: is William Toy and he was born nineteen thirty one,

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Speaker 3: Tye Tolly, Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Birth. This boy, this is

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Speaker 3: to get you situated in times. So he dropped, He

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Speaker 3: dropped out of high school, and that seems like it

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Speaker 3: was a lot easier to do in the late nineteen forties.

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Speaker 2: Just had to slip out.

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Speaker 3: Well yeah, I mean, like my grandpa dropped out of

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Speaker 3: sixth grade to get a job to help the family

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Speaker 3: back in the day, like pre that time, it was

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Speaker 3: like last year anyway, my grandpa sixth grade, last year,

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Speaker 3: Toy he bailed on high school and he was artistically

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Speaker 3: and mechanically inclined, and he eventually worked his way up

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Speaker 3: to a gig making architectural models for engineering firms. That's

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Speaker 3: not bad, rrect impressive. He taught himself to paint along

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Speaker 3: the way, and by the nineteen sixties he was working

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Speaker 3: as an artist. That was his gig. So another artist

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Speaker 3: who was also self taught but had a much more

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Speaker 3: compelling and impressive story was Clementine Hunter.

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Speaker 2: Don't know that name.

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Speaker 3: She was born in late eighteen eighty six to a

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Speaker 3: Creole family at a plantation in Nagadocia's Parish, Louisiana. Her

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Speaker 3: grandparents were enslaved on a nearby plantation and it was,

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Speaker 3: you know, here on this other one that she got

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Speaker 3: to picking cotton and pecans or pecans, you can stay

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Speaker 3: down there. She worked as a maid and a cook.

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Speaker 3: And again this is like, you know, post Civil War.

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Speaker 3: Here's a fun fact about her. On the morning that

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Speaker 3: she gave birth to one of her kids, she harvested

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Speaker 3: seventy eight pounds of cotton and then she went home

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Speaker 3: and called for the midwife.

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Speaker 2: Great, wait a minute, you said, on the day she

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Speaker 2: gave birth. Yeah, so she's she's like hours from labor.

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Speaker 2: She picked seventy eight pounds of cotton.

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Speaker 3: Seventy eight pounds.

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Speaker 2: Now I know a little about picking cotton from family stories.

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Speaker 2: That's a lot of day. I mean, like, that's that's

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Speaker 2: a real good day.

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Speaker 3: She is a strong, smart woman who was denied in education.

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Speaker 3: She couldn't read or write. And I think it's important

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Speaker 3: to remember that when the Civil War ended and slave

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Speaker 3: people weren't just free to wave goodbye to their oppressors

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Speaker 3: and walk to the city and get a job in

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Speaker 3: an apartment. You know, they were in economic shackles.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely.

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Speaker 3: And for those who you know ignorantly say, oh, but

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Speaker 3: they learned to trade, they had nothing.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, they had nothing. I mean, coming out of slavery,

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Speaker 2: you got to think about like, okay, someone used to

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Speaker 2: own you, so if you let your dog go, what

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Speaker 2: would they have? That was basically slavery. But you know,

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Speaker 2: you just obviously I don't want to make the comparison

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Speaker 2: to animals, but I'm saying, when you own something, that

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Speaker 2: is a fitting comparison for slavery. They were not allowed

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Speaker 2: to have anything other than like, you know, some ragtag

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Speaker 2: clothing they got each year, like here's your coat for

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Speaker 2: the year, here's your seeing.

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Speaker 3: These animals chattel lives, so they had no money, no education,

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Speaker 3: no real rights, and then so they're generally stuck where

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Speaker 3: they were totally and now they're just getting a pittance

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Speaker 3: and basically prevent it from advancing it anyway. This is

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Speaker 3: a historical fact, it's our truth. So kick rocks. If

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Speaker 3: you aren't willing to confront this and the ramifications as well,

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Speaker 3: I'm not talking to you.

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Speaker 2: Oh you mean, like someone would say that like coming

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Speaker 2: out of slavery, you're in a good spot now you're

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Speaker 2: free or something.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. So. Clementine she couldn't read, she couldn't write,

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Speaker 3: but she soaked up what she saw in the world

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Speaker 3: around her. And one day in the late nineteen thirties, Clementine,

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Speaker 3: now a grandmother, she found a box of paint tubes

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Speaker 3: left behind by a visitor to the plantation, because the

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Speaker 3: plantation by that time had become sort of a literary

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Speaker 3: and artistic salon. Oh wow, it was like a retreat.

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Speaker 2: Never expect that, No, not at all.

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Speaker 3: So she was fascinated by the colors and the textures

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Speaker 3: of the paint, and she goes back to her living quarter.

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Speaker 3: She pulls down a window shade and begins conveying in paint.

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Speaker 3: The realities of her daily life, the images of her memory,

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Speaker 3: the musings of her imagination. Sure, she became a folk artist,

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Speaker 3: sort of an outsider artist. Her figures are very much

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Speaker 3: reminiscent of those in quilt making, and that was the

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Speaker 3: skill in an art that she learned early in life.

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Speaker 3: And eventually she would incorporate sewing and quilting and even

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Speaker 3: weaving into her visual art. But for this point like

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Speaker 3: she's just painting. She started selling paintings after her husband died.

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Speaker 3: She put up a sign outside of her cabin that

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Speaker 3: said Clementine Hunter Artist, twenty five cents to look. So

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Speaker 3: she got her first shows in walk into this sailwich

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Speaker 3: picking have them on display. Yeah, exactly, Maybe you can

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Speaker 3: make an offer. So she gets her first shows in

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Speaker 3: nineteen forty five, and then in nineteen forty nine she

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Speaker 3: got wider recognition thanks to the New Orleans Arts and

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Speaker 3: Craft Show.

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Speaker 2: I said forty nine.

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Speaker 3: Forty nine, And in nineteen fifty three she was profiled

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Speaker 3: in Look magazine and that took her national So the

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Speaker 3: people involved with the writers and the artist's colony at

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Speaker 3: the Plantation, they helped her out. There was this journalist

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Speaker 3: Francois Mignon, who was a friend of Cammy Henry. Cammy

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Speaker 3: Henry was the owner of the plantation, and so Francois Mignon.

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Speaker 3: He provided Clementine with paint and materials and then sang

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Speaker 3: her praises to everyone he met. And her paintings got

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Speaker 3: displayed first in a local drug store and they were

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Speaker 3: on sale for a dollar a pop, just like twelve

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Speaker 3: dollars today. But you know, she's just gaining all this momentum.

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Speaker 3: In nineteen fifty six, she and Francois Mignon, they wrote

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Speaker 3: a cookbook together about the food at the plantation, So

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Speaker 3: she contributed recipes illustrations and these were like family recipes

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Speaker 3: that went back. So she's getting this like recognition and

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Speaker 3: acknowledgment in all of this. She painted for decades. She

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Speaker 3: had a lot of exhibitions and shows all over the South.

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Speaker 3: She was the first black artist to have a solo

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Speaker 3: exhibition at the New Orleans Museum of Art. She received

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Speaker 3: an invitation to the White House from President Jimmy Carter,

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Speaker 3: and she got a letter from President Ronald Reagan. A

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Speaker 3: Northwestern State University of Louisiana gave her an honorary doctorate

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Speaker 3: of Fine arts. In nineteen eighty six, Louisiana Governor Edwin

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Speaker 3: Edwards made her an honorary colonel, and in twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 3: long after she passed, state legislators passed a resolution that

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Speaker 3: designated October first as Clementine Hunter Day. Right, so she

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Speaker 3: painted right up until the end of her life in

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Speaker 3: nineteen eighty eight, at the age of one hundred and one.

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Speaker 2: I love that she started late in all this. I

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Speaker 2: mean charches a grammar.

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Speaker 3: Versus a grandmother.

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Speaker 2: That's amazing.

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Speaker 3: I think that the letter from Reagan was for her

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Speaker 3: one hundredth birthday.

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Speaker 2: I'm kind of guessing you said forty fifty yea, guys.

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Speaker 3: But to do this, to come from absolutely nothing amazing

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Speaker 3: and create this in hundreds well, and by the time

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Speaker 3: of her death in one hundred and one, her paintings

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Speaker 3: were selling for thousands of dollars. She goes from twenty

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Speaker 3: five cents to take a look to thousands of dollars.

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Speaker 3: In her life, she painted four thousand to five thousand

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Speaker 3: paintings like There's just tons And because of like her

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Speaker 3: sort of primitive style, people thought that they could forge

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Speaker 3: her work.

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Speaker 2: Oh like bask yacht stuff.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, so even her own relatives, as well as

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Speaker 3: those of plantation owner Cammy Henry. They made fakes of

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Speaker 3: clement Yeah, James L. We don't be going to.

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Speaker 2: Exploit enough of your family, so we wanted to exploit.

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Speaker 3: You, right, James L. Wilson, in his book Clementine Hunter

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Speaker 3: American Folk Artists quote. In nineteen seventy four, Hunter's reputation

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Speaker 3: had grown so and with it the price of her works,

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Speaker 3: that the inevitable occurred. A forgery scare. Rumors that either

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Speaker 3: a grandson or a nephew was grinding out Hunter copies

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Speaker 3: and selling them began to fly, and in New Orleans

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Speaker 3: an artist was charged with copying her paintings and trying

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Speaker 3: to sell them as Hunter originals. We're going to talk

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Speaker 3: about that artist.

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Speaker 2: Why did you go, Elizabeth. You found a way to

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Speaker 2: make me not root for a criminal.

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Speaker 3: Right right now? Look at me. So like art dealers,

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Speaker 3: they've been complaining about these fakes. So the New Orleans

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Speaker 3: police opened an investigation.

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Speaker 2: Get them.

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Speaker 3: Detective Robert Poadavon and Officer Roma Kent. They answered a

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Speaker 3: newspaper ad for the sale of Clementine Hunter paintings. They

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Speaker 3: went undercover to meet with the seller at a house

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Speaker 3: on Canal Street.

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Speaker 2: On Canal Street.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the guy shows the Plaine clothes cops twelve paintings

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Speaker 3: supposedly painted by Clementine Hunter, and upon inspection, the officers

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Speaker 3: determined they were fakes. So they had studied up, they

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Speaker 3: knew everything about her work. They arrested the cellar and

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Speaker 3: they even discovered ten more fakes at his own house. Wow,

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Speaker 3: who is this guy? William Toy Ah bad Billy Toy,

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Speaker 3: Bad Billy Toy. He gets booked on twenty two counts

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Speaker 3: of forgery and it was alleged by police that he

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Speaker 3: forged both the works of Clementine Hunter and her initials,

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Speaker 3: her signature. So it wasn't just like I'm painting this

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Speaker 3: and it's unattributed. Remember we've talked.

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Speaker 2: About that's what makes it. Yeah, fraud, that's what makes

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Speaker 2: it a forgery.

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Speaker 3: And that's why he couldn't say it was like an

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Speaker 3: appreciation piece or whatever Tony Tetro used to say. So

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Speaker 3: the police they tracked down other paintings sold by Toy

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Speaker 3: and took them to Clementine for authentication. Oh yeah, she's

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Speaker 3: ninety two years old. She's living in Melrose, Louisiana. She

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Speaker 3: confirmed you know what, I didn't paint these and this

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Speaker 3: signature total forgery. So after that, then the cops brought

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Speaker 3: in another twenty two paintings for her to authenticate because

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Speaker 3: they've got the source. Toy spent a day in jail,

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Speaker 3: then he hired the best defense attorney in town. He

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Speaker 3: posted bail via a two thousand dollars bond. The case, though,

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00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:20,640
Speaker 3: was never prosecuted, just kind of fell apart. Who knows

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Speaker 3: why ninety seven he strikes.

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Speaker 2: I guess they felt there wasn't a major victims.

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Speaker 3: I suppose he strikes again in Baton Rouge in ninety seven,

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00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,720
Speaker 3: so he and his wife they consigned more paintings to

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Speaker 3: the Louisiana Auction Exchange in Baton Rouge. But these weren't

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Speaker 3: just Clementine Hunter pieces. They were also works by Matisse

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Speaker 3: and Dega. Yeah, all fake, of course. So he accused.

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Speaker 3: Toy accused the owner of the auction house, Ronald Causey,

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Speaker 3: of taking the real pieces and then counterfeiting them and

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Speaker 3: putting those up for sale. Oh like, I gave you

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Speaker 3: the blueprint and you made a copy and that's what.

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Speaker 2: So now I'm the victim, I'm the problem.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so Toy files complaints with Louisiana Auctioneer's Licensing Board

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Speaker 3: against Kasey against the guy he ripped off, saying that

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Speaker 3: Kasey withheld payments for the paintings that were sold at auction.

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Speaker 3: The board took no action then. Causey later passed away

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00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:20,200
Speaker 3: from lung cancer. However, Toy started spreading rumors that the

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Speaker 3: FBI had been trying to conduct a raid on Casey's house,

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00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:26,240
Speaker 3: and he told people that while Kasey's wife tried to

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Speaker 3: barricade the door, Kasey went to the back of the

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00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,800
Speaker 3: house and took his own life. Whoa he said, quote,

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00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,160
Speaker 3: there was a gunshot. The FBI pushed the door open

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00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:38,200
Speaker 3: and went in and found Kusey dead. None of it's true.

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Speaker 3: Toy's wife, Beryl b e r Y lt Not like

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00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:47,520
Speaker 3: create Ann. Beryl Beryl wrote to a friend of hers

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Speaker 3: who's also an accomplice, Robert Lucky. Quote, he stole about

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Speaker 3: one point three million worth of art from us. He

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00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:57,040
Speaker 3: was a dangerous criminal who surrounded himself with other dangerous criminals.

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Speaker 3: We literally hounded him to his death. They're saying that Casey.

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Speaker 3: Here's what Casey's widow, Sondra had to say. Quote Ron

295
00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:08,800
Speaker 3: would be the last person in the world to kill himself.

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00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,600
Speaker 3: He died of lung cancer. My husband was a fine,

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Speaker 3: big hearted person who didn't like to think people could

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Speaker 3: do bad things to you, and so he trusted mister

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00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,680
Speaker 3: Toy and the whole time mister Toy was deceiving him.

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Speaker 3: By the time we finished dealing with mister Toy, both

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00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:24,960
Speaker 3: Ron and I were convinced he was either completely insane

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Speaker 3: or completely evil.

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Speaker 2: So he took the other approach on dead men, tell

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Speaker 2: no tales. My dead men can't change what I'm saying.

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00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:33,360
Speaker 2: Uh huh, that's.

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00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,640
Speaker 3: No, completely insane, completely evil? Why not both?

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Speaker 2: That's what I'm with, right, So when.

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00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,240
Speaker 3: We come back, we'll dive further into the bizarre behavior

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00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:42,760
Speaker 3: of William and Beryl Toy.

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Speaker 4: All right, Zarenizabeth over here over here?

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00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:10,040
Speaker 3: Question? Yes, thank you? What was I talking about?

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00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:11,520
Speaker 2: Oh, Beryl good?

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00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,400
Speaker 3: Good call William and Beryl Toy?

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00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:18,160
Speaker 2: Like I just kept this barrel her name Beryl Beryl

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00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:21,520
Speaker 2: wise could be Beryl and boy Toy. That just sounds is.

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00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:26,120
Speaker 3: Like a really like a failed eighties movie like script

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00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:27,080
Speaker 3: that everyone got.

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00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:27,960
Speaker 2: Made once a computer.

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00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:30,640
Speaker 3: Hear me out, beryln boy Toy.

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00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,320
Speaker 2: No, it's not a real barrel. It's a computer. What

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00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:34,560
Speaker 2: was that?

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00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:37,320
Speaker 3: Crazy cooked out producers named Don Simpson.

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00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,280
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and Jerry Bruckheim cast on that.

324
00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:43,280
Speaker 3: Could you believe that Beryl and boy toy? So William

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00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:44,120
Speaker 3: and Beryl.

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00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:48,280
Speaker 2: Was my friend's hero. The you looked at that, He's like,

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00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:49,120
Speaker 2: I want to be like.

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00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:53,480
Speaker 3: That, dear god man. Anyway, So these two, this gruesome twosome,

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00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:58,560
Speaker 3: they're forging paintings by local renowned folks, outsider artist Clementine

330
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Speaker 3: Hunter and then also world famous French painters throw it in.

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00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:06,159
Speaker 3: Why they are sewing chaos and nastiness wherever they go.

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00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:09,960
Speaker 3: As their crimes advanced, so did their paranoia and delusion.

333
00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:15,719
Speaker 3: Ah yes, methis people exact after the whole Causy affair,

334
00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:19,920
Speaker 3: they start spiraling out. They installed bulletproof glass in their

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00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:24,200
Speaker 3: downstairs windows, which you know can't hurt. It's not cheap listen. Yeah,

336
00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,560
Speaker 3: I would do it at my house. Did you know

337
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:28,960
Speaker 3: I had a car once that had bulletproof windows and

338
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:30,080
Speaker 3: a bomb plate underneath?

339
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:30,640
Speaker 2: What?

340
00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:31,840
Speaker 3: It was so comforting?

341
00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:33,040
Speaker 2: What I did?

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00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:33,399
Speaker 3: Serious?

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00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:34,840
Speaker 2: How did you have a bomb plate?

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00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:37,320
Speaker 3: I want to talk about it, but I did. I

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00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:39,160
Speaker 3: didn't know I had a bomb plate until I took

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00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,639
Speaker 3: it to the mechanic the first time, like you know,

347
00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:44,240
Speaker 3: and they put it up. They're like, this is registering

348
00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:45,959
Speaker 3: is so much heavier than it should be. And they

349
00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:47,600
Speaker 3: put it up on the lift thing and like wow,

350
00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:49,080
Speaker 3: why do you have a bomb plate?

351
00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:50,800
Speaker 2: I'm like, stretch the length of the car.

352
00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:53,640
Speaker 3: And then I had a bullet Like when you rolled

353
00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:55,960
Speaker 3: the window down, it was double. They were bulletproof glass.

354
00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,160
Speaker 2: Why are you driving one of Pablo Escobar's cars?

355
00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:02,160
Speaker 3: Because for real, how did you? I want to talk?

356
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:08,400
Speaker 2: I have so many questions, Like a bulletproof car.

357
00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:10,040
Speaker 3: I was very comfort comforting.

358
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:10,959
Speaker 2: I bet it was.

359
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:13,840
Speaker 3: It was. It was awesome. So they didn't stop at

360
00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:18,359
Speaker 3: the glass in their house. The glass. They put a

361
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,240
Speaker 3: booby trap under the window in the car port, which

362
00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,800
Speaker 3: is it's a clever one. So they had they laid

363
00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:26,879
Speaker 3: down a bunch of marbles and then they put a

364
00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,840
Speaker 3: sheet of glass on top of that. So that this

365
00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,600
Speaker 3: is how this is what William Toy said, quote anybody

366
00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:34,720
Speaker 3: who steps on it will be in for a surprise.

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00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:40,440
Speaker 2: Wait what what inside the home? Underneath a window.

368
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:43,040
Speaker 3: Outside the home outside their house, Like there's the car

369
00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:45,960
Speaker 3: port and there's this window there and the like, if

370
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:47,600
Speaker 3: you try and break in, you're going to step on

371
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:48,480
Speaker 3: marbles and glass.

372
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,080
Speaker 2: You're not going to notice the marbles and glass.

373
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,199
Speaker 3: No, because who looks where they're walkings there? Yes, of

374
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,200
Speaker 3: course it's all very home alone.

375
00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:56,800
Speaker 2: It's very home alone.

376
00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:59,520
Speaker 3: So in the middle of all this, the toys are

377
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,000
Speaker 3: at at that the paintings they're trying to sell are

378
00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:08,639
Speaker 3: totally real, totally legal, totally cool, trap home alone. And

379
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,280
Speaker 3: they said that they were the real victims here. This

380
00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,159
Speaker 3: is a witch hunt. Of course, how were they the victims?

381
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:15,679
Speaker 2: Well, it's obvious they're saying they are.

382
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:19,320
Speaker 3: This is what they said. They said that international drug dealers.

383
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:23,080
Speaker 3: Of course, we're using auction houses to steal legitimate paintings

384
00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:27,159
Speaker 3: from honest, trusting sellers like them. They said that the

385
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:31,640
Speaker 3: dealers switched out the good paintings with copies and then

386
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,120
Speaker 3: went back to the auction houses saying that the pieces

387
00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:36,240
Speaker 3: were fake and they wanted their money back.

388
00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:37,880
Speaker 2: Because everyone loves the investigators, like.

389
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:41,159
Speaker 3: Okay, Pablo escobars out there buying hippos with his booger

390
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,480
Speaker 3: sugar money. And then these supposed kingpins are creating a

391
00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,000
Speaker 3: large number of fake paintings in order to flee small

392
00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:48,280
Speaker 3: auction houses in the South.

393
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:49,879
Speaker 2: Yes, he's like, how do I get in on an

394
00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:51,560
Speaker 2: in insurance scam in Louisiana?

395
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:58,960
Speaker 3: Very slow on a crew of forgers.

396
00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:00,200
Speaker 2: For the kind of games that I get for are

397
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:01,840
Speaker 2: just a tenth of a plane load.

398
00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:05,520
Speaker 3: Right, So the consigners of the paintings, the toys, they

399
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,600
Speaker 3: didn't get paid and all they had were they're worthless fakes,

400
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:11,359
Speaker 3: garbage that had been swapped out by drug dealers. Of course,

401
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:16,119
Speaker 3: they claimed that they gave the FBI evidence that antique

402
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:20,680
Speaker 3: armoirs sold at auction had hidden compartments that the drug

403
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:22,080
Speaker 3: dealers hid narcotic sin.

404
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:23,800
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, made out of co game.

405
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,920
Speaker 3: I feel like there are less complicated ways to move

406
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,239
Speaker 3: drugs than hiding it in an amoir, putting it up

407
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,399
Speaker 3: for auctions, then the buyer sitting through said auction to

408
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:39,000
Speaker 3: get the item and haul it away. Hey, let me

409
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:40,399
Speaker 3: pay on top of it. There has to be like

410
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:44,119
Speaker 3: a more efficient and volume appropriate method. That's just me.

411
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:46,000
Speaker 3: I'm a logisticscal Oh you are?

412
00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:48,439
Speaker 2: You get it? Like on a plane, maybe a small

413
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,240
Speaker 2: plane flying low over the radar bulletproof.

414
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:55,040
Speaker 3: So back to the art. It wasn't just Clementine that

415
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,439
Speaker 3: William Toy was ripping off as I said he was.

416
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,439
Speaker 3: He was also great at making forgeries of works by

417
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:06,639
Speaker 3: Claude Monett. He said, quote, nobody does Monet better than me.

418
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,720
Speaker 3: Maybe money. If you were still alive and we both

419
00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,200
Speaker 3: did a water lily painting, tell me the difference.

420
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,800
Speaker 2: Nobody does it better than water lily Monet. Exactly.

421
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,520
Speaker 3: So Toy said in an interview that all that kept

422
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:24,159
Speaker 3: him from being a major star, a hugely successful artist

423
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:29,679
Speaker 3: was agoraphobia. That's Emily Dickinson would like exactly, although Emily

424
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 3: Dickinson only got published after she died, so point taking

425
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,400
Speaker 3: and so like. While I am not inclined to take

426
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:40,880
Speaker 3: anything this Dufis says is true, the agoraphobia angle is interesting. Well,

427
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:42,359
Speaker 3: Agoraphobia isn't just being.

428
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,480
Speaker 2: Afraid to leave the house outside.

429
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,400
Speaker 3: It's extreme cases that you know, it's it's an aspect

430
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:48,640
Speaker 3: of anxiety disorder.

431
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:49,080
Speaker 2: That's what I thought.

432
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:50,920
Speaker 3: Yes, you don't want to be somewhere that you can't

433
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:52,920
Speaker 3: quickly escape. Then you don't want to be too far

434
00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:54,119
Speaker 3: from your place of safety or.

435
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,119
Speaker 2: Company, Like you're afraid of a field, You're afraid of

436
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:56,919
Speaker 2: being exposed.

437
00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, and so as someone who deals with clinical

438
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:03,119
Speaker 3: anxiety and panic disorder, I've brushed up against those feelings before,

439
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 3: you know. Yeah, and I can see how not being

440
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 3: comfortable being out in the world would impact your art career.

441
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,640
Speaker 3: But dudes seem fine, gallivant and all over to sell

442
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,040
Speaker 3: his fake paintings. So I smell a rat.

443
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 2: It just seems to be momentary and transactional, like, oh,

444
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:18,159
Speaker 2: it's only here that it comes out.

445
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:21,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, And now I have the Sunday scary Yeah.

446
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,399
Speaker 3: So anyway, in November of two thousand and five, Toy

447
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,199
Speaker 3: made a deal with a man named Don Fusin, not

448
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 3: to be confused with Ron fusing No or Don Fuser

449
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 3: or the.

450
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,200
Speaker 2: Devil in Georgia who also is out making deals.

451
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 3: Yeah exactly, so Don. He was a businessman and an

452
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:38,720
Speaker 3: art collector from Baton Rouge.

453
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,640
Speaker 2: Which one Donna Ron donn okay.

454
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,280
Speaker 3: Don't confusing with Ron Fusan.

455
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:43,720
Speaker 2: Never so Don.

456
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 3: He bought thirty thousand dollars worth of Clementine Hunter paintings

457
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 3: from Toy.

458
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 2: Actual.

459
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, or so he thought. So. Come to find out,

460
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 3: thanks to the FBI, the paintings were fakes. So Don

461
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,359
Speaker 3: said later, quote, we can all be fooled, and this

462
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,399
Speaker 3: man fooled me. I gave him the best benefit of

463
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 3: the doubt at every turn, and that's not normally me.

464
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:05,439
Speaker 2: He's doing a lot of work to say he's not

465
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 2: an idiot. So Toy, it could have happened anyone doesn't

466
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:09,879
Speaker 2: norally happen to anybody.

467
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,399
Speaker 3: You know what toy Toy said told Don that he

468
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 3: got the paintings because his wife Beryl bought those directly

469
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 3: from Clementine in the nineteen sixties. And then they threw

470
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 3: some more on top of this.

471
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's freebies.

472
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,119
Speaker 3: She hung no, no, no, they threw more juice onto the story.

473
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,400
Speaker 2: Oh I thought she tossed in a couple you know,

474
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:28,920
Speaker 2: I like.

475
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,679
Speaker 3: The looks at you. Barrel hung on to them and

476
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 3: even saved them from Hurricane Katrina. Right. In fact, he

477
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 3: said Hurricane Katrina had wiped them out. They had nothing

478
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:44,640
Speaker 3: after the hurricane. See see, they'd had a warehouse where

479
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,679
Speaker 3: they kept opera sets and those all got destroyed and

480
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 3: that's how they were making their money.

481
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 2: Ah, of course, you know my opera set. I moved

482
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 2: opera sets for all of the late nineties.

483
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,159
Speaker 3: None of this sounds on the up and up down, No,

484
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:58,880
Speaker 3: not at all. No, but don was taken, he said.

485
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,119
Speaker 3: Quote the story read right to me. Nothing seemed wrong.

486
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 2: You are easily fooled. I do not believe your previous

487
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 2: statement about this never happened to you before.

488
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,679
Speaker 3: Sorry for them. So many people took advantage of an

489
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:14,640
Speaker 3: absolute tragedy and disaster following Katrina, and it's sickening.

490
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, definitely.

491
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 3: It was so horrible.

492
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 2: I know, a bunch of artists the French Quarter and

493
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 2: then they were putting stuff out. This is basically before Instagram,

494
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 2: you being like, hey, we need help, and so they're

495
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,640
Speaker 2: desperately to puting out on newsletters they get like emails,

496
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 2: they're like hey, and there's so many. I couldn't help

497
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 2: them all. But I realized very quickly they started going

498
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 2: people are pretending to be us, and they're also asking

499
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 2: for help. So I want you know this is authentic.

500
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, y'all.

501
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 3: Are And because of the chaos of it and the

502
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 3: lack of records in the last the Louisiana, Louisiana of

503
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 3: it all, God bless. Yeah, it was totally taken advantage

504
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 3: of entered you know, creat barrel.

505
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 2: It was like the original Ppe loan scam, but completely yes.

506
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 3: So trusting generous Don bought the paintings from Toy and

507
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,119
Speaker 3: then turn around and sold them to friends. And about

508
00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 3: a month later, Don started getting calls from the buyers.

509
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 3: They'd had the pieces authenticated and experts said they were fake.

510
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 2: My praiser wants to speak with you.

511
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 3: OK, he's right. Well, then the FBI comes calling. An

512
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 3: FBI agent interviewed Don and three other people who paid

513
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 3: Toy nearly one hundred thousand dollars in total for forty

514
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 3: fake Clementine Hunter paintings. So Don, he decides, I'm going

515
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 3: to the toy's house and I'm getting my money back.

516
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 2: So did the FBI clear Don? Because there like, this

517
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 2: man's too dumb to be the master.

518
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,159
Speaker 3: He's like, he's such a sweetheart. They put his head sweet.

519
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 2: Summer child, someone helped across the street.

520
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,439
Speaker 3: So Don Don, Don posses up.

521
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 2: But I'm going maybe slow.

522
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 3: I'm getting my money back, but.

523
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 2: I'm going for my aron close.

524
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 3: Oh yes, I want you to picture it. You are

525
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 3: the embroidered Ralph Lauren Polo logo on Don Fusen's button

526
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,960
Speaker 3: down shirt. You rest elegantly over the man's heart. He

527
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 3: has a good heart, he loves art. He's trusting, but

528
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 3: now he's on a mission to get his money back

529
00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:00,479
Speaker 3: from two lunatics. Don sighs as he gets into his

530
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 3: car and revs the engine. He's on a mission. As

531
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,160
Speaker 3: he speeds down the road and with the windows down,

532
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 3: that thick humid air whips in and you flutter against

533
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 3: Don's body. He slows the car and comes to a

534
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,400
Speaker 3: stop on Katy Drive. He gets out of the car

535
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 3: and surveys the scene.

536
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 2: The grass hasn't been.

537
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,360
Speaker 3: Cutting in ages, and it's as tall as Don's knees.

538
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 3: There's junk and garbage strewn all through the tall weeds.

539
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 3: You can feel Don's heart beating faster behind you. He's scared.

540
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 3: He walks up to the house and steps onto the

541
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 3: dilapidated front porch. There are signs all over the place,

542
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 3: do not disturb, keep out, go away, but Don will

543
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 3: obey none of these. He steals himself and takes a

544
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,919
Speaker 3: deep breath. He approaches the front door. This is no

545
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 3: ordinary front door. It is a huge iron door. Don

546
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,479
Speaker 3: stares at the imposing door for a moment and then

547
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 3: begins pounding on it with his fist. Suddenly, the door

548
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 3: creaks open. An old woman with short gray hair peers

549
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,640
Speaker 3: out from inside the cluttered house. At her feet are

550
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,919
Speaker 3: three cats circling her ankles, purring and yewing. You and

551
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 3: Don looked beyond her into the house and see more

552
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,239
Speaker 3: cats lounging on the furniture under countless pieces of art

553
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 3: hung on the walls. Beryl picks up one of the cats.

554
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 3: The collar reads he by gebe. It's an old cat.

555
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 3: It's hair thinning and its eyes clouded with cataracts. Beryl says, Don,

556
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 3: you squint your embroidered eyes at her by pinching two

557
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 3: threads together. I trusted you, and you sold me fakes. No,

558
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 3: says Beryl. I bought those pieces myself, right from the

559
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 3: artist Clementine Hunter sold those to me.

560
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 2: I want my.

561
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 3: Money back, Don yells. Beryl yells back, I sold you

562
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 3: the real paintings, and you made copies. You forged all

563
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 3: these paintings, and now you're trying to scam us all.

564
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,360
Speaker 3: And with that, Beryl slammed the iron door. You look

565
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 3: over and you see a cat peering at you through

566
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 3: a window. Don turns and returns to his car. You

567
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 3: rest your logo body against his as he speedes off

568
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 3: and heads home empty handed.

569
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 2: There you are.

570
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 3: A few days later, Don got a letter from Beryl. Quote,

571
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 3: the onus is not upon us to prove that the

572
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 3: paintings are real. It is upon you to prove that

573
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 3: they are not.

574
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 2: Does that?

575
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 3: Yeah? So and he did. He proved it. He's like,

576
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 3: guess what, they're fakes. I've taken the onus and there

577
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 3: you are.

578
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 2: Court.

579
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,359
Speaker 3: Don wanted proof from the Toys that the experts were

580
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,120
Speaker 3: wrong and the couple had in fact bought the paintings

581
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 3: directly from the artist. This is what he said. Quote.

582
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 3: I was hoping that mister Toy would say, let me

583
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 3: get a photo album and there would be forty pictures

584
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,719
Speaker 3: of missus Toy with Clementine on her front porch, but

585
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 3: there were no pictures. I was hoping he would produce

586
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 3: a phone number of a friend who had visited Melrose

587
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 3: with missus Toy, but they didn't have that either, So.

588
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 2: No one had been to her Melrose place. No one. Yes,

589
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 2: I like that they want a photo album of proof,

590
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 2: Like what have they? My mother?

591
00:28:54,200 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 3: I'm need to start making photo albums of proof. It's

592
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 3: making me nervous. So Don sets up a meeting with

593
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 3: Toy and invited along with him a well regarded art

594
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 3: conservator named Margaret Morland.

595
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 2: Not Margaret Moreland, Yes, Margaret Morland.

596
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 3: Morland was a known conservator who had been in the

597
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 3: business for twenty five years.

598
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 2: Oh Mags of steel.

599
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, she's a tough bird. She had cleaned a

600
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 3: lot of Hunter paintings for Toy, and after Katrina, Toy

601
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 3: brought Moreland even more Hunter paintings for cleaning. Moreland attached

602
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 3: a condition report to each piece that she cleaned. So

603
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 3: she said, quote, he kept asking me, do you think

604
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 3: these are real? I don't want people to think they're fake.

605
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 3: So if you have paintings that you got from the

606
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 3: actual artist, why would you say that?

607
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 2: Yeah? I don't. I don't get that one.

608
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 3: So Moreland she came to believe that Toy used her

609
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 3: condition reports as proof of authenticity to prospective buyers. She's

610
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 3: not authenticating, she's just cleaning a painting.

611
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 2: But he's acting like that somehow is a yeah process.

612
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 3: And she said, there's no way I certified them. These

613
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 3: are just notes I make for myself to keep track

614
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 3: of them. Now, remember how the Toys said Don had

615
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 3: recopied their legit paintings. They accused Morland's son Robert, of

616
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 3: being the real forger in all of this. So Robert,

617
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 3: who had considered Toy a friend, was absolutely shocked.

618
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 2: Oh he's buddies with this person.

619
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 3: This is what Robert Morland said, quote never, never would

620
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 3: I do something like that. I don't think I could

621
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 3: fake one if I wanted to. It's just preposterous. Usually

622
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 3: when a painting is old, the older it is, the

623
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 3: stronger the paint is. But there were times when a

624
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 3: little paint would come up when I was using a

625
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 3: relatively weak cleaner, and I was like, huh, that's coming

626
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 3: up kind of easy.

627
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 2: But what do I know.

628
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 3: I don't know anything about Clementine Hunter, and I definitely

629
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 3: wasn't going to say the paintings were fake because of that.

630
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 3: Don though hits the nail on the head. Quote. Clementine

631
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 3: was a poor black woman who painted for pennies and nickels.

632
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 3: These people copy her work and sign her name to

633
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 3: get thousands of dollars for something that she'd have gotten

634
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 3: thirty dollars for. She's the person most violated by this.

635
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 2: Don I'm so wrong. I take it back. You're not simple,

636
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 2: You're truthful. You get right to the heart of matters.

637
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 2: Who am I to judge.

638
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 3: Your irritating to me about this the absolute exploitation. So

639
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 3: Don he gathered a bunch of other victims of the toys,

640
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 3: and he went to the state Attorney General's office. They

641
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 3: demanded an investigation. They got nothing, of course, not at all,

642
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 3: Don said, quote. The impression I got was that they

643
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 3: thought this was a big white collar crime and that

644
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 3: rich people were getting hurt, and so it wasn't a

645
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 3: big deal.

646
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 2: Oh, we do about that.

647
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 3: That's kind of our motto here. But like, I don't

648
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 3: classify these folks as wealthy. Okay, like they have money,

649
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 3: but the losses make an impact on their livelihood. They

650
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 3: can't just absorb these losses. I like the ones where

651
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 3: the fat cat victim is what I call violently.

652
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 2: Rich, Yes, or like writing it off because they don't

653
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 2: want to be embarrassed.

654
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't get to be a billionaire or a

655
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 3: member of the one percent without stomping on and exploiting others.

656
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 2: Yes, so simple, get it.

657
00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 3: And that, dear listeners, is why I think they are

658
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 3: fair game and the crimes involving them tickle me.

659
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 2: Are you recommending a cookbook to how to Cook and

660
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 2: Eat the rich.

661
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,479
Speaker 3: Basically, let's take a break, let that soak in, and

662
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 3: when we come back, we'll keep wading through the wreckage

663
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 3: left in the wake of the USS Toy. Hey's Aaron, welcome.

664
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 2: You got more about that boy toy, the toy boy

665
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 2: my man creating barrel and barrel.

666
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do. So. We've got the toys forging paintings,

667
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 3: selling said fakes, then turning around and accusing the buyers

668
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 3: of forgery when caught. Yes, it's amazing. Sometimes the tactic

669
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 3: works and sometimes it doesn't.

670
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, like when you're seven.

671
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 3: But it always muddies the water, installs things.

672
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 2: Yeah.

673
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 3: You know. One target of the toys, Janice Dealerno. She

674
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 3: knew the ruse all too well. She's the owner of

675
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 3: an art gallery and frame shop in Baton Rouge, and

676
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 3: she bought five Clementine Hunter paintings from Toy. This is

677
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 3: what she said quote. I started getting suspicious of him.

678
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 3: He had this unending collection of paintings with anything you

679
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 3: could possibly want. You could name the subject matter and size.

680
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 3: I just started wondering what was going on. I think

681
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 3: the fact that you could name fine art by artists

682
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 3: and size of the piece should have been a good

683
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 3: clue that he wasn't on the up and up. Yeah,

684
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 3: made to order fine art.

685
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 2: When you're like, have like an actual Hunter painting of

686
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 2: Lionel Ritchie that's a seven by eleven, and you're like,

687
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 2: I don't know why she painted that, but.

688
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 3: You know it's it's funny, serendipitous.

689
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 2: That she did. It's amazing and she's exactly what I

690
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 2: wanted from my bathroom.

691
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 3: Sodalerno. She took the paintings to an expert on Hunter

692
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 3: pieces and learned they were fake. Surprise, and she said, quote,

693
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 3: William Toy turns it around and accuses the person he

694
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 3: sold a art to copying it. It's ludicrous, Like, hello,

695
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 3: how many times you have to walk into this wall?

696
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 2: Everybody say, it's ridiculous. Exactly.

697
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 3: So Shannon Foley another target. She's an art dealer in

698
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,879
Speaker 3: New Orleans. She went to Toy's freaky house to buy

699
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 3: the pieces. This is how she described it. Quote, it

700
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:21,439
Speaker 3: was dirty, there was dust everywhere, three four maybe five

701
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 3: cats were around. I was pregnant, and the stench of

702
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 3: cat urine hit me in the face. I thought, oh

703
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:28,399
Speaker 3: my gosh, this is crazy. I had to get out

704
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 3: of there. You meet a lot of eccentric people in

705
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 3: the art world who live in bizarre conditions and yet

706
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 3: have valuable things. So it's the eccentricity that buys the

707
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:38,879
Speaker 3: toys credit.

708
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:42,799
Speaker 2: Not the toxoplasmosis in the nose when you go to visit, the.

709
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,320
Speaker 3: Ammonia of it all like. But if you have money,

710
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 3: you can be as weird as you want to be.

711
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 2: Look at the British were talking about at the beginning.

712
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:49,800
Speaker 3: That's why I need to win the lottery.

713
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,240
Speaker 2: Yes, you can be eccentricause you want to be exactly.

714
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 3: So the Toys they were opera aficionados, and they named

715
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 3: their cats after characters from Gilbert and Sullivan musical.

716
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you have name games.

717
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, Toy once said, quote, do you know we've

718
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 3: had one hundred and six cats since nineteen seventy seven.

719
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 2: Oh wow.

720
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 3: Coco was the first. Yum Yum was second. If you

721
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 3: have all day, I can tell you about every one

722
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 3: of them. We didn't want all the yelling and screaming,

723
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 3: so we adopted cats instead. I contacted a funeral home

724
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 3: about where to get gravestones for the cats. So I'm

725
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 3: going to have a load of gravestones delivered, and we're

726
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 3: gonna put one at the head of each grave.

727
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 2: Okay, just so much to go with there. But my

728
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 2: favorite possibly is a load of gravestones, a load of

729
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 2: can maybe a load of half a gravestone.

730
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 3: Then here's barrel. She chimes in, quote, we know where

731
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 3: they all are. Taddy's in here, Janie's here.

732
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 2: Oh no, she's just in the house. I suppose over

733
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 2: there in that.

734
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 3: Bag in her pocket. So back to Shannon.

735
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 2: Foley The Pirates of Penzance.

736
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:53,720
Speaker 3: A now fully wades into cat Pea Central and buys

737
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 3: five paintings get out, and then she bought fourteen more

738
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 3: via mail after she sold those origin four. Now they

739
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 3: had to smell terrible. It's why they have to get

740
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

741
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:05,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, i'd be like a smoker's house, but its capit.

742
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 3: Yeah.

743
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 2: Also, I'm thinking she thought that's what made it more artistic.

744
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, it was so funky. Yeah, have toists.

745
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 2: They can't be people who live like that.

746
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 3: Well, so all said, fully paid forty four thousand dollars

747
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 3: for nineteen paintings.

748
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 2: Oh man, She.

749
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:24,959
Speaker 3: Listed some on a website and then she put others

750
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 3: up at an auction house. And soon enough she finds

751
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 3: out they're all faked, so she reaches out to the

752
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 3: toys demands her money back. Quote they said all these

753
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 3: people were jealous of them, that other people were the forgers.

754
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 3: It's like they're scripting their own reality. I love the

755
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 3: journey that everyone goes through of like, oh my god,

756
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 3: they have these paintings. It's kind of a bargain.

757
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 2: I'm gonna exploit them.

758
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 3: They smell like pee, but like, I don't know, they're

759
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 3: kinda they're They're weird, artistic centric type.

760
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 2: And I'm going to get a good deal. I just

761
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 2: got con the oh.

762
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 3: And now they're saying I faked them. Anyway, so she

763
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 3: tries to sue.

764
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 2: These people are crazy.

765
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 3: She tried to sue them, but she could never get

766
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:01,919
Speaker 3: the papers served. They wouldn't open the door.

767
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, no, of course not. I think that

768
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 2: they would have to go to like some kind of

769
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 2: collector from the mob to get their money.

770
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:09,240
Speaker 3: Totally.

771
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 2: You need someone in a long black leather jack.

772
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 3: You need to know some Hell's.

773
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 2: Not a lawyer exactly that would do it.

774
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, you always say, and I'm always like, I wish

775
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 3: I knew some Hell's Angels.

776
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 2: See this is our California, New Jersey to buy exactly. So.

777
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 3: Another gal, the owner of Baton Rouge financial services company,

778
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 3: named Stephanie Hardy. She met toy in around like two

779
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 3: thousand and six, two thousand and seven when he came

780
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 3: in looking to get a loan and Hardy denied him

781
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 3: alone smart at which point he said, well, I've got

782
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 3: all these Clementine Hunter paintings. Let's use him as collateral.

783
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:44,359
Speaker 3: So what does Hardy do? She's like, I have a collateral. No,

784
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 3: she buys five of the paintings. God, She's like, don't

785
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,359
Speaker 3: worry about the loan. How I could take those off

786
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 3: your hand. He's like, okay, seventy five hundred dollars and

787
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 3: she talks him down to twenty five hundred dollars.

788
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 2: This is classic con behavior. Everyone thinks they're getting one

789
00:37:58,080 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 2: over on him.

790
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 3: Here's what she said. This is how she said. Quote.

791
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 3: Some were rare ones, like a Christmas tree. When I

792
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 3: asked what else he had, he gave me a spiral

793
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,400
Speaker 3: bound notebook with polaroids of the paintings. He told me,

794
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 3: I can get you any of these that you want,

795
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 3: in lots of sizes, in lots of sizes, like the

796
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:16,439
Speaker 3: alarm bell is going off, and she's like, I got

797
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 3: some rare ones for twenty five hundred. How did she

798
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 3: not see this scam?

799
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 2: Why can't we get jobs?

800
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 3: Back it up so he doesn't qualify for a loan,

801
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 3: she buys paintings from him, and then he's like, you know,

802
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 3: I can get him in any size. It's like when

803
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 3: you order a T shirt online and then they say, oh,

804
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 3: you can also get the design on a mug or

805
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,239
Speaker 3: a mousepad, Like why do I want an Elliot Smith

806
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 3: mouse pad? Scratch that it sounds kind of cool anyway?

807
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 3: What else was in the Magic Art catalog notebooks?

808
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 2: Eron it would go through Elliot Smith mug so masch set?

809
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 2: What else was in a notebook?

810
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 3: Let me tell you the glute? Inside was a letter

811
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 3: dated nineteen seventy three from Mark Antony of the three

812
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 3: three one gallery in New Orleans. Okay, here's a small problem.

813
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:01,760
Speaker 3: The place closed in nineteen sixty six and the letter

814
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 3: was from nineteen seventy three.

815
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:04,280
Speaker 2: That doesn't work out, It doesn't.

816
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 3: The letter said the toys owned four hundred and thirty

817
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 3: eight Hunter paintings and with a total worth of approximately

818
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 3: forty five thousand dollars.

819
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 2: No to his credit, could this have been like, you know,

820
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 2: we lost the brick and mortar, but now we're a

821
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:18,360
Speaker 2: floating gallery.

822
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:20,359
Speaker 3: An online Now that was like.

823
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:24,879
Speaker 2: The brick of Dune of we appear every four years.

824
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:25,760
Speaker 2: So toy.

825
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 3: He gives copies of the letter to both Dalerno and

826
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:32,919
Speaker 3: Foley as provenas for the paintings. Hardy, though, she gets

827
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 3: the hold her hands on the whole notebook and turns

828
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 3: it over to the FBI.

829
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, wow.

830
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,320
Speaker 3: So January of two thousand and nine, Well, she best

831
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,840
Speaker 3: with a banker. The banker's like, okay, we have federal

832
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 3: issues here.

833
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 2: But how did you get her hands on the note

834
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 2: Did she break in?

835
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 3: She was like, can I just take it home? And

836
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:50,879
Speaker 3: like just and she put it in a ziplock bag

837
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,319
Speaker 3: because it smelled so bad I want to stinking up

838
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 3: my car. January two thousand and nine, the FBI got

839
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 3: in touch with Lindel King, the director of the Wiseman

840
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 3: Art Museum at University of Minnesota. The FBI thought that

841
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 3: the Hunter paintings on display there that were gifted from

842
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 3: a local collector and his family were forgeries. FBI came

843
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 3: and took pictures of all thirty eight Clementine Hunter paintings.

844
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 3: There who now that March FBI special agent Randolph Deeton

845
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:21,879
Speaker 3: the fourth not the fourth. Yeah, he contacted the museum

846
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 3: to let him know that five of their thirty eight

847
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 3: Hunter paintings were likely fake. In an interview with the Toys,

848
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 3: Beryl said, once they leave our hands, we have no

849
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 3: control over what happens to them. We had the real

850
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 3: ones and everyone else was faking them. And then William says,

851
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,280
Speaker 3: I didn't confess anything because I didn't do anything. People.

852
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 3: They're amazing.

853
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 2: So they're like the long shag carpet of people.

854
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 3: It's like, collect so much gross, don't walk on it barefoot. So,

855
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 3: when asked about Clementine Hunter's work, Toy said that he

856
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 3: hated it and he wouldn't let his wife hang the

857
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 3: pieces in the house. Quote, they're junk and really only

858
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 3: good as dart boards. The only thing that Clementine Hunter's

859
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:05,760
Speaker 3: good for is a stepping stone in a muddy field.

860
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:07,800
Speaker 3: Damn backup, did.

861
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 2: Dude, I'm about to fight on these words. Clementine Hunter

862
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:10,880
Speaker 2: don't deserve that.

863
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 3: So again September two, two thousand and nine. So we're like,

864
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 3: you know, after they've contacted the museum. Earlier in the year,

865
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 3: the FBI they raid toys home in Baton Rouge. They

866
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 3: seized art supplies, computers, documents, typewriters, and according to the toys,

867
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 3: the only paintings the FBI found were four small Hunter

868
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 3: pieces that were left over from the four hundred piece

869
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:35,240
Speaker 3: collection that Beryl got decades prior when she was friends

870
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 3: with Clementine Hunter.

871
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:37,359
Speaker 2: That's what the toy said.

872
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 3: That's what the toy said. Say And like Beryl again,

873
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 3: she said she started buying the pieces from Hunter in

874
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 3: nineteen sixty nine, you know, typically paying like thirty five

875
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 3: to fifty dollars of painting. Hold up. Retired Associate professor

876
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 3: of journalism at Northwestern State Tom Whitehead christ Fowl. He

877
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 3: was close friends with Clementine Hunter, and he visited her

878
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 3: once a week beginning in nineteen sixty nine. He said

879
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 3: in an interview that he never once crossed paths with Beryl,

880
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 3: and Hunter never once mentioned her name. So if this

881
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 3: woman is showing up and buys four hundred pieces.

882
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:14,359
Speaker 2: You would think he would say that she might come

883
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 2: up in conversation.

884
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 3: Beryl's undeterred. No, of course, they were pointing fingers at

885
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 3: me and I can't paint. And then they thought they

886
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 3: could trick me. They said, well, your husband's confess to it,

887
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 3: and we're going to take them down to Central lock up.

888
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:28,879
Speaker 3: And I said, but he couldn't have painted them either,

889
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 3: because I bought them from Clementine. I said, okay, I

890
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,840
Speaker 3: painted them. I painted them right after I finished helping

891
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 3: Michaelangelo paint the Sistine Chapel and Chagall paint the lobby

892
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,760
Speaker 3: of the Met. This of course, went above their heads.

893
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:45,760
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I know they are so Animal Control

894
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 3: at the Raid gets.

895
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:49,919
Speaker 2: All snob over, these Louisiana police who say that I'm

896
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:51,720
Speaker 2: the criminal. Ma'am, you are the criminal.

897
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 3: Animal control is called.

898
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 2: Animal control nights. I got the dog catcher on.

899
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 3: Well, they had to get a bunch of cats out

900
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:03,760
Speaker 3: of the house bi Raid. Something bad happened to he BGB.

901
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 3: We won't go into but Beryl had a meltdown.

902
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 2: Are you kidding?

903
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 3: I'm not kidding you.

904
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I want to I don't want to hear.

905
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 3: So Beryl has a meltdown and tried to attack an agent. Wow, okay,

906
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 3: I'll tell you what happened here. PBGB got spooked and

907
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 3: ran out in the street and got hit by car

908
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:23,319
Speaker 3: rip HEBGB, but he BGB had cataracts and was like,

909
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:25,479
Speaker 3: not not long for this world.

910
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 2: Okay, that's terrible. So it's just nature doing it in

911
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 2: a weird way.

912
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 3: Right, But so Beryl loses it, which I mean, okay,

913
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,360
Speaker 3: I get it. I would, and starts attacking an FBI agent,

914
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 3: which you know would he would, And they had a tranquilizer,

915
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 3: which like, okay, I'll take it. So when she got home,

916
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 3: Beryl told an interview quote, they're watching us from the

917
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 3: top of that building as we speak. The FBI has

918
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:50,359
Speaker 3: us under twenty four hour surveillance. They see everything we do.

919
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 3: They sprayed a special powder on our car. Whenever William

920
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 3: goes anywhere, like to the market, they can track him

921
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:57,359
Speaker 3: from a satellite.

922
00:43:57,600 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 2: A satellite.

923
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is the spinning. The spinning is happening. So

924
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 3: then William joins in quote. When they were clearing out

925
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 3: the land behind us to build that building, they took

926
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 3: out a forest. The guy operating the cat tractor found

927
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 3: a human skeleton holding a high powered rifle. The skeleton

928
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 3: didn't have identification, but we're certain he was an assassin

929
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:21,239
Speaker 3: hired to kill us. He died back there. Somehow it

930
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 3: never made the papers. Of course, we'd moved from eccentric

931
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 3: into and two.

932
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:29,800
Speaker 2: I was talking to my Brocowy this morning at breakfast,

933
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:30,879
Speaker 2: and it told me that.

934
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 3: This is what their neighbor, James Breedlove observed. Quote. I

935
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 3: had so many people come over I could have sold tickets.

936
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 3: The agents had a card table set up in the

937
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:42,959
Speaker 3: front yard and they were bringing out paintings. They would

938
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,399
Speaker 3: wrap the paintings in brown paper and log them into

939
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,399
Speaker 3: a yellow pad on a clipboard. Finally, a fire truck

940
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 3: and an EMS vehicle showed up. I later learned that

941
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 3: Beryl went bokers. They took her to the psych board

942
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 3: of a local hospital for three days. But we didn't

943
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 3: understand all this at the time. All we saw was

944
00:44:57,800 --> 00:44:59,959
Speaker 3: Beryl coming out on a stretcher. It was quite a show.

945
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 2: I'm telling you, I bet it was right.

946
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 3: But like, here's the thing. Beryl's likely only took four paintings,

947
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 3: and this guy's like they had to set up a

948
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 3: whole lot for day.

949
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, one after the other.

950
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 3: So Toy thinks that Beryl now suffers from PTSD as

951
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 3: a result of the raid, and he thinks that she

952
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 3: should have shock therapy.

953
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 2: Oh, I don't know. Maybe he wants to make electro

954
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 2: convulsive shock therapy. Yeah, that ain't no joke, no h.

955
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 3: And as to the fake paintings, Toy accused their pal

956
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:26,720
Speaker 3: Robert Lucky, of the forgery.

957
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 2: They were noticed with electric shock therapy. It's always we

958
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 2: should do this as someone else. No one ever goes

959
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:34,480
Speaker 2: you know what I would electric shock therapy exactly, Okay, anyway, exactly.

960
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 3: So Toy turns on Robert Lucky, who was like their friend.

961
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 3: He accused the FBI of planting fakes in his home

962
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:48,239
Speaker 3: during the raid. Quote they had a painting, supposedly a

963
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 3: Clementine that I had never seen before. They have to

964
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 3: have brought it with them. We don't even know it

965
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 3: was there.

966
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 2: Of course, that seems very reasonable.

967
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 3: Beryl doubles down. Quote, the FBI just wants us out

968
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:00,440
Speaker 3: of the house so they can come back and steal

969
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:02,719
Speaker 3: the dega we have stored in the closet. But I

970
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 3: have a message for them. We're not leaving. Let them

971
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 3: come get us. She's like, we got marbles, we got

972
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:09,280
Speaker 3: panes of glass.

973
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 2: We're gonna go. Look out the world. You know that

974
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 2: people in the Pennsylvania should probably tell this story they have.

975
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 2: They said they found a bunch of gold from like

976
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:18,799
Speaker 2: the Civil War, and then they claimed the FBI came

977
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 2: in and stole the gold from them overnight. That's why

978
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 2: these people will not be believed is because of Beryl and.

979
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 3: Bill Toy, right exactly exactly, Well, Bill Toy, he's a

980
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:31,959
Speaker 3: tough talker too. Quote the FBI doesn't scare me. Try

981
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:35,760
Speaker 3: standing before an orchestra of sixty eight musicians, Now that's terrifying.

982
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 2: Oh yes, Like, okay, where.

983
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 3: Did you get that? Dude?

984
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 2: Like okay, seels like he plays mad libs in his

985
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 2: head and says them.

986
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 3: He just eternally in my head gets the jay z Okay.

987
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 3: Robert Lucky he told the FBI that he met the

988
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 3: Toys around nineteen ninety nine and that he had sold

989
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:56,640
Speaker 3: approximately one hundred paintings that he got from them. And then,

990
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 3: according to the FBI, Lucky was informed by Hunter Art

991
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 3: Exs that the pieces he was selling were fake, but

992
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 3: he just kept selling him. He's like all right, yeah,

993
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 3: So Lucky denies this. He said, quote, I never sold

994
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 3: a painting that I thought was a forgery, but.

995
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 2: I thought not that I had been told was a forgery. Thought,

996
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 2: I don't know much about art.

997
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 3: So Special Agent Deeton wrote in court documents that Robert

998
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:20,920
Speaker 3: Lucky was suspected of acting as an intermediary for the

999
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:23,400
Speaker 3: toys by way of helping them sell the forged paintings.

1000
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:24,399
Speaker 2: I'm with him and that.

1001
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 3: He quote engaged in a conspiracy and a scheme to

1002
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:30,879
Speaker 3: defraud several victims in Louisiana and in other states and

1003
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 3: knowingly sold forgeries as original, authentic works of art by

1004
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 3: Clementine Hunter.

1005
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:36,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's the equivalent of their fence.

1006
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:39,759
Speaker 3: Yes completely so. FBI documents also said that it was

1007
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:43,359
Speaker 3: around two thousand, in the year two thousand, the same

1008
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 3: time that Lucky moved to New Orleans, that faked Hunter

1009
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 3: paintings began appearing on the market.

1010
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 2: Coincidence.

1011
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, Lucky sold about fifty to one hundred paintings on

1012
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 3: behalf of the toys Arkansas, Louisiana, New York, Texas the

1013
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 3: prove and to the paintings always misrepresented. The buyers were

1014
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 3: told that the sources of the paintings were like other

1015
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 3: Hunter collectors, not the toys. So he gets them from

1016
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:10,439
Speaker 3: the toys. He's like, no, that lady who really loves Hunter.

1017
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's in New York. You don't know her.

1018
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:17,360
Speaker 3: So for a while there, Lucky owned an antique shop

1019
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:18,719
Speaker 3: where he sold paintings.

1020
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 2: I don't trust those places anti shops.

1021
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:22,879
Speaker 3: No, it's like an interesting little front.

1022
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they're like, you know, like pawn shops, but

1023
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:28,439
Speaker 2: they're always kind of hanky. Yeah, that's how I feel

1024
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:29,279
Speaker 2: about an antique shop.

1025
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 3: Greed, Yeah, he reported When he had this antique shop,

1026
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:36,839
Speaker 3: he reported that someone had stolen thirty two paintings from

1027
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 3: his shop. This was in ninety two, and he told

1028
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:42,360
Speaker 3: newspapers that it was an eighty thousand dollars loss, but

1029
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:45,920
Speaker 3: don't worry, it's covered by insurance. He was arrested in

1030
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety nine on felony charges in Shreveport, Louisiana, because

1031
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 3: he'd failed to deliver three hundred paintings that he sold

1032
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:56,239
Speaker 3: for twenty one thousand dollars, later released on bond. In

1033
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 3: two thousand, a New Orleans physician named Robert Ryan was

1034
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,880
Speaker 3: selling part of his Hunter collection and he got a

1035
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:06,360
Speaker 3: judgment against Lucky for twelve grand, which is the amount

1036
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 3: that he paid Lucky for the paintings. Because he found

1037
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 3: out that everything he bought was fake. He was able

1038
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:15,240
Speaker 3: to get Lucky's wages garnished and he collected his final

1039
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 3: payment in two thousand and five.

1040
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:18,719
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1041
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 3: June of twenty eleven, Toy pleaded guilty to selling forged paintings,

1042
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 3: misrepresenting the provanas to buyers, and painting the forgeries. His

1043
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,719
Speaker 3: plea agreement allowed him to avoid time in prison, which

1044
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 3: was like a maximum of five years, but he was

1045
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:37,839
Speaker 3: kept under supervised release and he had to pay restitution.

1046
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:39,320
Speaker 2: So his real payment was restitution.

1047
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, he attacked a photographer with his cane on the

1048
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 3: way out of the courthouse. You know, you got to

1049
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 3: keep it real. In September of the same year, the

1050
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:51,759
Speaker 3: both of them pleaded guilty. Both Toys pleaded guilty to

1051
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 3: mail fraud. They got sentenced to two years probation and

1052
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:56,760
Speaker 3: they had to pay four hundred and twenty six thousand

1053
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:57,759
Speaker 3: dollars in restitution.

1054
00:49:58,080 --> 00:49:59,760
Speaker 2: Oh that's not bad for mail fraud.

1055
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:03,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, the hit Lucky also got convicted of mail fraud.

1056
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 3: He got sentenced to twenty five months in prison and

1057
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:08,399
Speaker 3: then he had to pay three hundred and twenty six

1058
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 3: thousand dollars in restitution.

1059
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 2: It's interesting that he gets popped, not them on the

1060
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 2: twenty five months. It seems like they would all get

1061
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 2: twenty five months.

1062
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:16,040
Speaker 3: That's what I would think. Well, he serves his time.

1063
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:19,720
Speaker 3: He had three year supervised release after and two hundred

1064
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 3: hours of community service. So all's well, that ends well,

1065
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 3: they all pay the price.

1066
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 2: Now, did Beryl ever agreed that her husband convicted for

1067
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 2: it actually painted the painting. She's still going but it

1068
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:33,840
Speaker 2: was space aliens in the FBI.

1069
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:35,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, everyone's trying to make them the victims.

1070
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 2: Saron Powder, As you can see from satellite.

1071
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:39,240
Speaker 3: What's your ridiculous takeaway?

1072
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 2: From the beginning to the end.

1073
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:42,840
Speaker 3: It's all ridiculous.

1074
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 2: That was it. It's all so ridiculous. I'm taking the

1075
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:46,439
Speaker 2: whole thing away as ridiculous, and.

1076
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 3: Again, I want to make sure that everyone understands it.

1077
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 3: I'm not making poking fun at mental illness.

1078
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 2: Qualify as art eccentrics more so mentally ill from what

1079
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:57,720
Speaker 2: you were describing, I don't.

1080
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:00,400
Speaker 3: Know, you know, it's more than it's just the things

1081
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:02,759
Speaker 3: that they do so much so anyway, but I do

1082
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:04,719
Speaker 3: want to make that absolutely clear that that's you know,

1083
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 3: you know what my ridiculous takeaways? Thanks for asking.

1084
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:09,839
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, hey, what's yours?

1085
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 3: I'm calling back to your what's ridiculous at the top

1086
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 3: of the show, which was about Slash. Do you follow

1087
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:16,920
Speaker 3: him on Instagram? Uh?

1088
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 2: You told me to do that a long time ago

1089
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 2: and I have not.

1090
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:23,520
Speaker 3: It's it's like a thirteen year old boys Instagram. It's

1091
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 3: so great. It's either like wishing happy birthday to other

1092
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 3: musicians and he has like this little thing that he

1093
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 3: types out with like brackets or whatever to make it

1094
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:34,800
Speaker 3: look like Slash or like early pre emoji stuff, okay,

1095
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 3: or it's just like weird like heavy metal magazine, you know,

1096
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 3: like the horror like sexy or stuff and weird stuff

1097
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 3: like that's trippy.

1098
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 2: It's like you gotta follow.

1099
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 3: It's amazing.

1100
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 2: So like you want me to to check out his

1101
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 2: like a dark light or black light posters. And then

1102
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 2: also does he do like any like pictures of him

1103
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:56,840
Speaker 2: with celebrities and wish birthday or just a random picture.

1104
00:51:56,840 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 3: It's a random picture that's spreading on stage.

1105
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:01,320
Speaker 2: Yep, so follow is it always a picture of Hambergery

1106
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:05,400
Speaker 2: sent a picture of them like birthday?

1107
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, he doesn't appear on his own thing.

1108
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 2: That's classics seriously, And the rest of the times it's like,

1109
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:12,759
Speaker 2: look at this giant snake, a.

1110
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 3: Lot of snake content. Okay, thirteen year old boy, it's amazing.

1111
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:18,160
Speaker 2: He's true to himself. That's exactly who you wanted.

1112
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 3: I love that kind of authenticity with people.

1113
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:22,480
Speaker 2: I thought I met him, he was exactly what I

1114
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:24,320
Speaker 2: wanted to be in person. And now you're just confirming

1115
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 2: for me. He stayed that guy. Follow on. This be

1116
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:30,880
Speaker 2: your best right. That's all I have for I love it.

1117
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 3: You can find us online at ridiculous crime dot com.

1118
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 3: We have T shirts. No, I don't think we do.

1119
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 3: I don't know what we have there. Cats.

1120
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 2: We should get some.

1121
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:44,080
Speaker 3: Gifts, we should do some shirts. We're a ridiculous crime

1122
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:48,400
Speaker 3: on both Twitter and Instagram, ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com.

1123
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:50,720
Speaker 2: The interns showed me a really cool T shirt idea

1124
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:53,320
Speaker 2: we got from somebody. I think it was today or yesterday.

1125
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 2: I thought that was so. If you guys have T

1126
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 2: shirt ideas, yeah, because respondings some out.

1127
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:01,280
Speaker 3: Yeah. Look at the interns sewing their little tiny fingers

1128
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 3: working leave a talk back on the iHeart app. I

1129
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:06,440
Speaker 3: know people don't like to download apps. That's what we've

1130
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 3: been finding out. They say, I don't want another app. Well,

1131
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:13,320
Speaker 3: guess what I don't care, send me a talk about.

1132
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:17,280
Speaker 2: The apps.

1133
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:21,080
Speaker 3: Pleased another app and add that one in, So that's

1134
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 3: my thing. Reach Out Baby. Ridiculous Crime is hosted by

1135
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 3: Elizabeth Dutton and Sarah Burnette, produced and edited by Dave Kusten.

1136
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 3: Professional cat wrangler research is by Marissa I Want to

1137
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 3: buy a Monette Brown and Andrea do you have any other?

1138
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:44,280
Speaker 3: Or a five x eight song Sharpened Tear. The theme

1139
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 3: song is by the auction House of Lee and Dutton.

1140
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:50,640
Speaker 3: Executive producers are Ben have you seen my Cat? Bowlin?

1141
00:53:50,800 --> 00:54:01,799
Speaker 3: And Noel who hasn't seen your cut Brown? Cryme say

1142
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:04,240
Speaker 3: it one more time? Riudiquious Crime.

1143
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio. Four more podcasts

1144
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:12,240
Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1145
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:13,720
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.