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Speaker 1: The wildly popular hit program Nineteen Kids and Counting that

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Speaker 1: aired on TLC sparked controversy then and now, as the

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Speaker 1: eldest son of the clan, Josh Dugger, now indicted for

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Speaker 1: child porn. Child porn should really be called video and

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Speaker 1: photos of children, little children as they are molested, because

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Speaker 1: porn somehow suggests that both parties are willing and maybe

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Speaker 1: even have a contract to make money in a porn shoot.

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Speaker 1: This is so vile. If you've ever seen it, you

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Speaker 1: will never get it out of your head. Two charges now,

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Speaker 1: and it all starts with quite ironic, the idol Nineteen

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Speaker 1: Kids and Counting. This is the story of my family.

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Speaker 1: We are the Duggers. That's me, I'm Michelle. There's Jimpab,

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Speaker 1: my wonderful husband, and our children. Josh is our oldest.

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Speaker 1: He married Anna and they had our first grandchildren, Mackenzie,

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Speaker 1: Michael and Marcus. Then there's Jannah, John David Jill, she

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Speaker 1: married Derek, Jessea Ginger, Joseph, Josiah, Joy Anna, Jendiah, Jeremiah, Jason, James,

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Speaker 1: Justin Jackson, Johannah, Jennifer Jordan, and our youngest daughter, Josie.

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Speaker 1: That's a grand total of nineteen, and I delivered every

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Speaker 1: one of them. Of course, with this many kids, we

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Speaker 1: do things a little different than in most things. It

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Speaker 1: isn't always easy, but somehow we got to all work.

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Speaker 1: I'm not judging about how many children they have, or

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Speaker 1: about their deeply religious beliefs in a certain Let me

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Speaker 1: just say, sect of Christianity, it's hard enough for me

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Speaker 1: to work and raise two children. How you do it

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Speaker 1: with nineteen I do not know. That is not what

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Speaker 1: brings us here today. What brings us here today are

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Speaker 1: very very serious charges. Take a listen to this. Josh

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Speaker 1: Dugger was arrested in Arkansas on Thursday, and on Friday

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Speaker 1: the charges were revealed. The thirty three year old former

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Speaker 1: nineteen Kids in Counting Star is accused of receiving and

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Speaker 1: possessing child pornography. During a hearing over Zoom, Dugger pled

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Speaker 1: not guilty to the federal charges. According to court documents,

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Speaker 1: in May twenty nineteen, Dugger allegedly used the Internet to

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Speaker 1: download child's sexual abuse material. He allegedly possessed the material,

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Speaker 1: some of which involved the sexual abuse of children under

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Speaker 1: the age of twelve. If convicted, Dugger faces up to

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Speaker 1: twenty years in prison and finds up to two hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty thousand dollars on each count. Child sex abuse

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Speaker 1: videos pictures downloaded. You were just hearing our friends over

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Speaker 1: at entertainment tonight and earlier you were hearing from the

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Speaker 1: program Intro TLCS nineteen and County joining me an all

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Speaker 1: star panel to try to make sense of what's going

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Speaker 1: down right now and how an alleged sex pest. Wow,

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Speaker 1: that's a U femism. That's certainly putting perfume on the pig.

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Speaker 1: A sex pest, trisex molester got away with it for

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Speaker 1: years and years and years before now charges. Child sex

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Speaker 1: videos photos a little children being molested with me. Glenn Pounder,

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Speaker 1: Chief Operating Officer, Child Rescue Coalition, former International Liaison Officer

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Speaker 1: for the UK's National Crime Agency, specializing in prevention of

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Speaker 1: child sex exploitation. You can find Glenn Pounder at Child

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Speaker 1: Rescue Coalition dot org. Troy Slayton, high profile criminal defense

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Speaker 1: attorney joining us out of LA. You can find him

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Speaker 1: at Twitter at Troy Slayton. Doctor Joy Cross and Psychologist,

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Speaker 1: Faculty Saint Leo University, Research consultant, Blueball Institute and author

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Speaker 1: of Operation s OS which you can find on Amazon

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Speaker 1: Chief Chris Buyer's former police chief John's Creek twenty five

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Speaker 1: years as a cop, now PI and polygrapher at Chris

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Speaker 1: Buyer's Investigations and Polygraphs dot com. But first to investigate

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Speaker 1: a reporter with Crime online dot Com, Alexis Terres Chuck. Alexis, Yes,

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Speaker 1: he was just arrested on two counts of child use

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Speaker 1: materials aka child porn. Take a listen, Alexis Cherez Chuck

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Speaker 1: to our friends at Inside Edition. Was it an open

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Speaker 1: secret that Josh Dugger molested underage girls? Long before the

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Speaker 1: scandal erupted, there were troubling comments on the Internet aimed

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Speaker 1: at Josh Dugger and his parents eight years ago. In

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Speaker 1: May two thousand and seven, a woman who attended church

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Speaker 1: with the Duggers wrote, let me tell you something about

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Speaker 1: the precious Duggers that you don't know. She went on

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Speaker 1: to detail Josh Dugger's history of molesting young girls and

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Speaker 1: claimed his parents, Jim, Bob and Michelle, lied and lied

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Speaker 1: about their son to protect him. Is it true? Well,

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Speaker 1: apparently it is. Take a listen to ABC's GMA This

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Speaker 1: Morning bombshell sex abuse allegations against Josh Dugger, my life

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Speaker 1: as I had known it was changing, best known as

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Speaker 1: one of the stars of the TLC series Nineteen Kids

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Speaker 1: and Counting. This is our Stories. The shocking allegations of

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Speaker 1: appropriate sexual contact with several underage girls when Josh was

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Speaker 1: a teen, reported an in Touch magazine. Dougger responded to

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Speaker 1: the allegations on Facebook twelve years ago. As a young teenager,

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Speaker 1: I acted inexcusably, for which I am extremely sorry and

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Speaker 1: deeply regret. I confessed this to my parents. We spoke

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Speaker 1: with the authorities, and my parents arranged for me and

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Speaker 1: those affected by my actions to receive counseling. Aleisa Stretchuk,

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Speaker 1: you and I covered that together. What happened within the family.

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Speaker 1: What happened? Josh molested his own sisters in their house.

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Speaker 1: In the Dugger's home. He started the first time that

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Speaker 1: he molested them. It was the parents had described it

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Speaker 1: as the girls were asleep and he was touching them

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Speaker 1: over their clothing and they didn't even know that they

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Speaker 1: were molested. However, it progressed to him basically attacking his

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Speaker 1: sisters all around the house. He cornered one of them

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Speaker 1: in a launder room and was putting his hands under

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Speaker 1: her dress. He had another little sister, little little sisters

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Speaker 1: like I believe under five years old, sitting on his lap,

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Speaker 1: and he was reaching under her clothes. He was attacking

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Speaker 1: his sisters in their home. And the duggers, the parents.

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Speaker 1: Do you know what their solution was to keep Josh

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Speaker 1: away from the girls. Mouse They built a new seven

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Speaker 1: thousand square foot house, and they put the daughter's bedrooms

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Speaker 1: on the other side of their bedroom so that nobody

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Speaker 1: could get to their bedrooms at night, thinking that that

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Speaker 1: would help Josh stop molesting the girls while they were

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Speaker 1: in their own rooms. Okay, so what about the babysitter.

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Speaker 1: We left that out. It's not just his sisters, four

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Speaker 1: of them, as I wouldcall, but a babysitter too, who

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Speaker 1: was not asleep at the time. Wait, wait, right, right

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Speaker 1: right there, you're absolutely correct, Alexis terres Chuck. They first

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Speaker 1: defense was that the girls were asleep. Let me ask

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Speaker 1: you this, Troy Layton, you're the high profile defense attorney.

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Speaker 1: How is it the sex molest victim was asleep any

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Speaker 1: different from the sex victim was drugged and passed out.

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Speaker 1: No difference, There is no difference. There is no difference

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Speaker 1: as long as the person who is committing the act

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Speaker 1: is doing it for purposes of sexual gratification for themselves.

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Speaker 1: It's irrelevant crime stories with Nancy Grace to doctor Jory Crasen.

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Speaker 1: For a sex act not to be a crime, there

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Speaker 1: must be consent. And if a sex actors on a child,

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Speaker 1: they are under the law unable to consent. They can't

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Speaker 1: buy a car, they can't buy liquor or cigarettes, they

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Speaker 1: can't enter into a contract because they are minors. They

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Speaker 1: also cannot consent to have sex. So the fact that

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Speaker 1: there is no consent, whether you're asleep or you're a child,

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Speaker 1: makes no difference. So why did the parents say that

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Speaker 1: as some sort of a if it said the girls

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Speaker 1: were asleep when it happened. It seemed like a continuing

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Speaker 1: initiation of enabling his behavior from the moment this started.

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Speaker 1: They just continue to like cover and make excuses. When

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Speaker 1: they said they moved him into treatment, he went off

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Speaker 1: for three months. There's no kind of psychological mental health

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Speaker 1: counseling treatment in three months at this age and at

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Speaker 1: this level of intensity that he's experiencing that is going

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Speaker 1: to be successful. You know, very often, to former police

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Speaker 1: chief Chris Buyers now at Chris Barr's Investigations and polygraph

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Speaker 1: dot Com Chris. Very often you will see molestation within

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Speaker 1: the home. It's not always some creepy dude at the

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Speaker 1: end of the playground wearing a trench coat and a

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Speaker 1: hat looking suspicious. It's very often a molester in your home,

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Speaker 1: an uncle, a father, and older brother. Yeah. Absolutely, I

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Speaker 1: was thinking back over my time and law enforcement candation

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Speaker 1: in was an investigation within the home, within the family,

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Speaker 1: within the confines of where the child should have been

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Speaker 1: safe every time. That's where the investigation led to. So

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Speaker 1: I guess the parents were torn between seeking justice for

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Speaker 1: their daughters and the babysitter who were not all asleep

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Speaker 1: when this happened, and turning in there. So let's take

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Speaker 1: a listen to our cut seven This is Our Friend

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Speaker 1: Byron Pitts at Nightline, stunning even by reality TV standards.

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Speaker 1: The news came to light when in Touch magazine obtained

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Speaker 1: a decade old police report detailing Josh's alleged molestation. According

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Speaker 1: to the magazine, the heavily redacted report details how Josh,

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Speaker 1: whose name did not appear, was investigated from multiple sex offenses,

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Speaker 1: including forcible fondly against five girls in two thousand and

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Speaker 1: two and two thousand and three, a female miner claimed

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Speaker 1: that Josh touched her breast and genitals while she slept.

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Speaker 1: In Touch magazine says charges were never pressed and the

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Speaker 1: statue of limitations has expired. The Arkansas Police Department told

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Speaker 1: ABC News a judge ordered that the original report be

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Speaker 1: expunged from his record and destroyed. That happened years and

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Speaker 1: years and years ago. But it is my belief, and

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Speaker 1: yes it is anecdotal. I don't have a statistic to

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Speaker 1: back this up, but I've never seen a child molester

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Speaker 1: be successfully rehabilitated. To Alexis Terrestchuck, I know when the

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Speaker 1: crimes against his four sisters and the babysitter came to light,

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Speaker 1: And they came to light because somebody went online from

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Speaker 1: within their church talking about how the duggers were hiding

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Speaker 1: or covering up the molestations. Then it got to I believe,

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Speaker 1: inside edition and they blew it wide open. But how

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Speaker 1: long ago that was? The years later? How long ago

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Speaker 1: did it actually happened? The crimes actually took place, The

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Speaker 1: more stations took place in two thousand and two and

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Speaker 1: two thousand and three, Okay, so two thousand and two

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Speaker 1: and two thousand and three, and today here we are.

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Speaker 1: Let's here cut twenty one our friends at entertainment tonight.

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Speaker 1: Josh Dugger was arrested in Arkansas on Thursday, and on

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Speaker 1: Friday the charges were revealed. The thirty three year old

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Speaker 1: former Nineteen Kids in Counting Star is accused of receiving

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Speaker 1: and possessing child pornography. During a hearing over Zoom, Dugger

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Speaker 1: pled not guilty. So now we're twenty years later approximately

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Speaker 1: and it's still going on. I mean, you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: not an md as shrink, I'm just a JD. But

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Speaker 1: to Glenn Pounder, the chief operating officer at Child Rescue

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Speaker 1: Coalition dot Org, he went to treatment, he never went

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Speaker 1: to jail. They swept it under the rug. They kept

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Speaker 1: it a secret. The little girl seem a lost their way.

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Speaker 1: Back then, we're just children. Now he's got child porn

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Speaker 1: or child sex, molest materials, jumping glam powder. Yeah, thank you, Antie,

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Speaker 1: and thank you for explaining to your listeners what it

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Speaker 1: is we're really talking about. We're talking about children younger

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Speaker 1: than twelve years old, sometimes violently being raped, and that's

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Speaker 1: what these recordings are. Child sexual abust material. But if

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Speaker 1: I can, this case is a microcosm about what we

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Speaker 1: do Child Risking Coalition, And when I'm giving the demonstration

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Speaker 1: of our technology, I'll explain to people all the time

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Speaker 1: that the best cops using our system use it as

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Speaker 1: a way of identifying the suspect and then they ask themselves, Okay,

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Speaker 1: what else has this guy done? So this case really

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Speaker 1: is a microcosm of that. And I'll say to people

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Speaker 1: all the time, if you arrest somebody in their thirties,

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Speaker 1: they could have been offending for ten, fifteen, twenty years.

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Speaker 1: So the best investigators use that as the starting point

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Speaker 1: and then they walk backwards to find out when was

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Speaker 1: the first time this guy offended against a child. So

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Speaker 1: let me understand something, m Pounder, I said, my knowledge

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Speaker 1: of this fact, and I know it to be a fact.

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Speaker 1: I don't need a statistic study to tell me this

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Speaker 1: because I've seen it over and over and over again

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Speaker 1: that child lessers cannot be rehabbed. You can send them

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Speaker 1: off to whatever expensive or not expensive rehab you want to,

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Speaker 1: they're going to do it again. It's just the way

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Speaker 1: they're made. Yeah, it's a very challenging area for psychologists

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Speaker 1: who work with offenders to try and understand what made

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Speaker 1: them defend them the first place, and then obviously what

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Speaker 1: can help treat them, which, of course, for what we do,

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Speaker 1: is so important to at least identify these offenders, because,

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Speaker 1: as it's proven in many many cases until eighty five

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Speaker 1: percent of the time, those consuming this horrific child abuse

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Speaker 1: material are also committing hands on abuse at the same time.

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Speaker 1: So they're they're reoffending against those kids who were raped

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Speaker 1: or whether the point that took place, and of more

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Speaker 1: oft than not, they've either already committed hands on abuse

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Speaker 1: or they're heading down the path to commit rape against

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Speaker 1: the child. The reality is that, and I've dealt with many,

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Speaker 1: many adult victims of child molestation that these images they're

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Speaker 1: really sick. As you just heard from our friend at

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Speaker 1: Child Rescue Coalition, Glenn Pounder, that it's videos and pictures

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Speaker 1: of little children being forcibly ranked. It can't do that.

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Speaker 1: There's really no nice way to put it. And I mean,

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Speaker 1: maybe some of the pictures are not violent, but many

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Speaker 1: of them are. It's horrible. I took this fight to

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Speaker 1: Congress and testified before a subcommittee, and with me I

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Speaker 1: teens by that time, who had been adopted out of

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Speaker 1: a Russian orphanage to an American pedophile, and he molested

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Speaker 1: and raped the little girl would sometimes tire to a

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Speaker 1: tree and rape out in the yard and video it.

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Speaker 1: And how she healed from that is beyond me. But

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Speaker 1: then she had to deal with the fact that images

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Speaker 1: of this were being traded amongst child predators and perverts.

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Speaker 1: For the rest of her life. Those images were out

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Speaker 1: there every day some freaky dude was king and images

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Speaker 1: of her being raped by her adopted father. As she

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Speaker 1: still has to live with that, as do all of

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Speaker 1: these child victims. There's a whole another lair to this

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Speaker 1: about the show must go on with TLC's nineteen Kids

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Speaker 1: in Counting while they knew these molestations had occurred in

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Speaker 1: their home. There's the whole hypocrisy lair. Take a listen

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Speaker 1: to our friend Ron Clayborne at ABC's GMA R Cut five.

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Speaker 1: Dugger has also resigned from his position as executive director

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Speaker 1: of the political We Have to Stand of TLC, the

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Speaker 1: cable channel that airs Nineteen Kids in Counting now in

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Speaker 1: its tenth season, declined comment. The Duggers have been outspoken

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Speaker 1: proponents of sexual chastity, You guys, can't kids yet, which

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Speaker 1: Josh Dugger, whose wedding was featured on the show in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, talked about earlier this season during

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Speaker 1: our courtship. So we just sided that there was going

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Speaker 1: to be no kissing and obviously no sex before marriage.

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Speaker 1: When outspoken opponents of gay rights causes like Prop eight,

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Speaker 1: I truly believe that every child deserves a mother and

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Speaker 1: a father, and I'm sure grateful for mine. And the

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Speaker 1: Beggar family wields considerable political influence, many conservative politicians buying

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Speaker 1: for their support. In twenty twelve, backing Republican Rick Santorum

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Speaker 1: crime stories with Nancy Grace, Guys, we are talking about

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Speaker 1: the fact that in the last days, what are the

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Speaker 1: stars of tlca's nineteen kids in County arrested for child porn,

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Speaker 1: which is materials video photos of little children being raped. Alexis,

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Speaker 1: You've got the whole layer of Christianity. Somehow that makes

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Speaker 1: the whole thing even worse. I mean, you expect the

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Speaker 1: freaky dude at the end of the playground wearing the

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Speaker 1: trench coat should be a purr, right, But you really

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Speaker 1: don't expect it from this seemingly self professed Christian family.

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Speaker 1: And while he was working for the Political Action Committee

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Speaker 1: in Washington, DC, Josh Stucker was spending over a thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars on Ashley Madison dot com. What that is is

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Speaker 1: that was a website that was where you would go

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Speaker 1: online and find a person to have an affair with,

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Speaker 1: to have sex with. And Josh was on there and

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Speaker 1: their email, their database got hacked and it all got

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Speaker 1: published and Josh Stugger was one of their top clients.

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Speaker 1: So while he's working in Washington, DC, first of all,

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Speaker 1: was a child molester. Second of all is saying working

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Speaker 1: to my rights to everybody else and talking about how

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Speaker 1: wrong the family unit must be. He was cheating on

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Speaker 1: his wife with there and she had I think at

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Speaker 1: the time four children, four little, little little children, and

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Speaker 1: he was cheating on her repeatedly. After that was exposed,

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Speaker 1: he finally got fired. Right Alexis trust checked to our

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Speaker 1: friend Gigi Chang at ABC. Former reality show star Josh Dugger,

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Speaker 1: husband and father of four, often preached his Christian faith

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Speaker 1: and family values at political rallies. Marriage is central to

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Speaker 1: the family Randy Ducks, but now the former reality star

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Speaker 1: of nineteen Kids in Counting, who just months ago was

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Speaker 1: in the spotlight for bad behavior again facing public embarrassment,

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Speaker 1: apologizing after being outed among the thirty seven million accounts

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Speaker 1: potentially hacked on Ashley Madison, the site known for matching

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Speaker 1: up married cheaters, welcomes to the cloud m In a

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Speaker 1: statement on the Dugger family website, Josh calls himself the

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Speaker 1: biggest hypocrite ever, saying, while espousing faith and family values,

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Speaker 1: I have been unfaithful to my wife. He even confessed

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Speaker 1: that he has a porn addiction, but later took that

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Speaker 1: admission down. The scandal all the more shocking because it's

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Speaker 1: Josh Dugger who's outspoken public moralizing so blatantly contradicts his

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Speaker 1: now very public private life. To doctor Jorry cross In,

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Speaker 1: psychologists faculty Saint Leo University and author of Operation SS

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Speaker 1: Practical Recommendations to help Stop Officers suicide, Doctor Jory, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm certainly no biblical scholar, but it's my understanding that

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Speaker 1: one of the things that Christ detested or decried the most,

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Speaker 1: or hypocrites, they're the worst. Right. I mean, a center

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Speaker 1: is a center, but a hypocrite as a center and

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Speaker 1: a faker to boot do. You have to look at

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Speaker 1: the dynamic psychologically involved with sex offender. Pedophiles expect this

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Speaker 1: the anonymity that is provided through the Internet where they

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Speaker 1: can get on you know, and just like with that

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Speaker 1: one chat room that they were talking about the money

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Speaker 1: he was spending monthly on that. The other thing is

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Speaker 1: the fantasy. You know, this is a fantasy world. And

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Speaker 1: as an investigator, and when I evaluated and treated sex offenders,

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Speaker 1: you always have to get into that fantasy world. And

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Speaker 1: that's something that is very well hidden and it takes

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Speaker 1: a lot of time, and that's part of the treatment.

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Speaker 1: And when you see the low success rate I just

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Speaker 1: checked in, it ranges anywhere between maybe a high of

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Speaker 1: ten percent to thirty percent of successful treatment for pedophilia.

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Speaker 1: And if you look today, you know they're now looking

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Speaker 1: to make pedophilia a sexual orientation. I don't know who

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Speaker 1: they as, but it's over my cold dead body clutching

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Speaker 1: their throats. That's not gonna happen if I have anything

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Speaker 1: to do with it. But I was talking to you

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Speaker 1: about hypocrisy, I mean Troy Slayton hypocrite. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: that's just like chum to the sharks, hypocrite juries hate hypocrits,

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Speaker 1: they certainly do. But the charges here and charges with

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Speaker 1: any sex offender, whether it be actual hands on molestation

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Speaker 1: or the allegation here, which is receiving and possessing child

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Speaker 1: pornography from the Internet, it is nuanced in that there's

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Speaker 1: a difference between somebody who is prepubescent and postpubescent. The

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Speaker 1: law does make a difference whether somebody is over the

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Speaker 1: age of twelve or under the age of twelve, and

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Speaker 1: in the case here for Josh Dugger, his allegation is

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Speaker 1: that this was child pornography under the age of twelve.

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Speaker 1: That gives me something else to think about. Thanks Joy Slayton,

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Speaker 1: guys speaking about the whole layer of hypocrisy. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to our cut ten. These are our friends at

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Speaker 1: Inside Edition. Listen. The Duggers belong to a Christian sect

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Speaker 1: known as Quiverful, which believes families should have as many

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Speaker 1: children as possible. Vicky Garrison used to be in Quiverful,

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Speaker 1: but left in two thousand and eight. She says she's

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Speaker 1: not surprised by claims that the Duggers initially sought help

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Speaker 1: with Josh's issues from church members, law enforcement does not

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Speaker 1: quite get on their radar because they're talking about this

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Speaker 1: is a spiritual issue, this is a character issue, and

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Speaker 1: so what they're going to do is they're going to

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Speaker 1: look at you know. What do they need to do

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Speaker 1: is get their hearts right with God's in Touch magazine

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Speaker 1: is reporting that one of Josh Dugger's victims may have

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Speaker 1: been five years old. Bottom lying to you, Alexis Uresz Chuck.

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Speaker 1: The parents sent Josh Dugger, who I think at that

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Speaker 1: time was fourteen or fifteen, to a Christian rehab for

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Speaker 1: about three months. He then got a quote stern talking

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Speaker 1: to buy an Arkansas State trooper and that was it.

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Speaker 1: Now the Statute of Limitations has passed, right, well, so

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Speaker 1: they Michelle Jimbob said that they had the Arkansas State

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Speaker 1: trooper give a stern talking to you to Josh Dugger

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Speaker 1: about everything that happened. The troopers said, he was not

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Speaker 1: told all of the details about what happened at all.

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Speaker 1: He was only told about one incident within the family.

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Speaker 1: He didn't know about the babysitter. He didn't know about

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Speaker 1: the other four sisters that were molested. He said, if

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Speaker 1: he had known that, he would have handled it very,

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Speaker 1: very differently. I get the police officer. Obviously this is

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Speaker 1: a crime, especially if it's somebody I don't want to

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Speaker 1: say that this is a crime, and the officer would

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Speaker 1: have to take action. He was also a mandatory reporter.

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Speaker 1: He would have to call child burness to services. He

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Speaker 1: said he wasn't told about any of that. Well, if

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Speaker 1: he was even told about one of the incidents, all

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Speaker 1: those triggers should have been immediately acted upon. To Glenn Pounder,

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Speaker 1: there you see the original five victims. Nothing was done.

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Speaker 1: And I have found again anecdotal that with adult victims

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Speaker 1: of child molestation and actual children I've worked with, one

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Speaker 1: of the worst things they feel is helplessness. There's nothing

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Speaker 1: they can do to get away from the purp here.

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Speaker 1: They go to their parents and the parents do not

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Speaker 1: report him, and he is not prosecuted, and the molestations

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Speaker 1: apparently go on. That feeling of helplessness will stick with

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Speaker 1: that child the rest of their life. Yeah. Absolutely, that revictimization,

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Speaker 1: those memories that will affect a child for the rest

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Speaker 1: of its life. And you know we talk about these

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Speaker 1: things is this they're all separate. So for example, you

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Speaker 1: know the number of people in the US who lose

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Speaker 1: their lives to terrible drug addictions. Well, some of those

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Speaker 1: people suffered familial and other types of child sexual abuse

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Speaker 1: when they were children. Like this ripples across the hybe,

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Speaker 1: and it ripples through that child's life forever, forever. Crime

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Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace, one of the stars TLC's nineteen

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Speaker 1: Kids and Counting, just arrested for child porn two counts

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Speaker 1: receiving and possessing child porn. And this results from a

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Speaker 1: twenty nineteen raid on Josh Dugger's used Carla. Now we've

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Speaker 1: heard about the molestation of five little girls when he

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Speaker 1: was about fourteen, no charges. We've heard about later on

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Speaker 1: the Ashley Madison hacking, and it was revealed he'd been

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Speaker 1: paying thousands of dollars for sex during his marriage while

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Speaker 1: his wife pregnant. How did that work out? Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to our cut fifteen. This is our friend Gigi

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Speaker 1: Chang ABC. Josh Dougger's wife, Anna is standing by him.

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Speaker 1: According to family sources, Anna will not leave him and

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Speaker 1: get this. She blames herself in part for Josh having

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Speaker 1: an account on the notorious Ashley Madison cheating website. Loving

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Speaker 1: to cherish, forsaking all others. Josh and Anna got married

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Speaker 1: seven years ago, a spectacle covered on nineteen Kids in

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Speaker 1: Counting Things Me seem listen to Josh pledge his fidelity

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Speaker 1: in song. Yes, those words are sure ringing hollow. Today,

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Speaker 1: even Josh is calling himself the biggest hypocrite ever. We're

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Speaker 1: also learning that he had two Ashley Madison accounts. One

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Speaker 1: account was active as recently as May seventeenth, at the time,

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Speaker 1: Anna was pregnant with their daughter, Meredith. When he registered

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Speaker 1: with Ashley Madison, he listed his ideal woman as a

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Speaker 1: girl next store with an aggressive take charge nature, natural breasts,

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Speaker 1: and a high sex drive. I really don't know what

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Speaker 1: to say that, but I can say unequivocally that that

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Speaker 1: was not Jiuji Chang at ABC. Okay, I think it

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Speaker 1: may have been our friends at ABC, but that's not Jiji.

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Speaker 1: Let me go back to you know, I keep going

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Speaker 1: back to our shrink on this. But what I don't

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Speaker 1: get is the wife standing by him, Doctor Crossen. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's really a typical victim mentality. I mean, you can

426
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 1: see how she's just been basically programmed into that. It's

427
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: just like the children. They take it upon themselves that

428
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 1: you know they're responsible for and she's following that behavior pattern.

429
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 1: I mean, it's bad to say, but that you know

430
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 1: that we see that so much with victims, children and

431
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 1: female victims, and of course Troy Slayton. Not that I

432
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 1: think that she ever would, but typically what is said

433
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 1: or communicated, not necessarily verbally between a husband and wife.

434
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 1: For instance, a husband's charge the what he invokes the privilege,

435
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 1: so his wife cannot testify against him unless it is

436
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 1: a case of child abuse or domestic battery. So those

437
00:30:54,680 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 1: are two exceptions to the husband wife spousal privilege. So

438
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: she could, the wife who was standing by him, could

439
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: testify against him under these circumstances. That's true, but she

440
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: can't be compelled to. She won't be jailed for contempt

441
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: of court for refusing to testify. It will be her choice,

442
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: you know. To you Former Chief Foreign Police Chief Chris Buyers, Chris,

443
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 1: I've thought by over all the cases I investigated and

444
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 1: prosecuted and covered, and rarely, if ever, can I remember

445
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 1: a mother, a wife going against the husband, boyfriend, lover,

446
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 1: live in who had molested the children. They always stick

447
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 1: by the husband. Have you noticed that? Absolutely? Every time? Again,

448
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 1: as I was thinking through all the cases that I

449
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: dealt with, the wife stood right there, stood by him,

450
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: would not turn on him. I don't know if it's

451
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 1: the embarrassment of the whole ordeal or what, but yes,

452
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 1: that has happened. Well you know what, Chris same here,

453
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: and I mean bad, bad molestation on a little girl's

454
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 1: boys as young as three years old. The wife would just,

455
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 1: I guess, rationalize and stay in the marriage, whether it

456
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: was the money or whether she had been conditioned like

457
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 1: you heard, I think it was doctor joy Cross and

458
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 1: saying to Glenn Pounder or chief operating Officer Child Rescue Coalition,

459
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 1: have you found the same Yeah? Again, unfortunately over multiple

460
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 1: cases of the maneos. That's that's something that I've seen

461
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 1: in my law enforcement career as well. Yeah, so this

462
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: is going back to when he's thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, all

463
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: the way up to the Ashley Madison debacle. Now they're

464
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 1: about to have child number seven. They just have a

465
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 1: gender reveal. It's a daughter and these charges land Take

466
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 1: a listen our cut twenty two. Our friends at et Dugger,

467
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 1: who wore a gray prison uniform during the hearing, will

468
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 1: remain in custody until May fifth, when a detention hearing

469
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 1: to seek bond will be held. A pre trial hearing

470
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 1: is set for July first, and the trial is scheduled

471
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 1: to begin on July sixth. This is Dougger's mug shot

472
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 1: taken on Thursday. The father of six was arrested in

473
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 1: Washington County, Arkansas. Later that day, Josh's sister Jill and

474
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: her husband Derek Dillard, exclusively told ET quote, we just

475
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 1: learned this information. It is very sad. On Friday, Josh's parents, Jim,

476
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 1: Bob and Michelle released a statement on their family's website, quote,

477
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 1: we appreciate your continued prayers for our family at this time.

478
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 1: The accusations brought against Joshua today are very serious. It

479
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: is our prayer that the truth, no matter what it is,

480
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 1: will come to light and that this will all be

481
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 1: resolved in a timely manner. We love josh and Anna

482
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 1: and continue to pray for their family. Less trust Chuck

483
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,320
Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter. Where does the case

484
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: stand right now? I'm imagining any good prosecutor or lawyer

485
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 1: not only builds their own case, but they anticipate what

486
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 1: the other side is going to say. The only defense

487
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: I could think of, is I didn't download it, somebody

488
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: else did, it's not my computer. Or entrapment by the fence.

489
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 1: There's only three defenses I can come up with. But

490
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 1: what's the latest in the case right now. Well, the

491
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 1: judge just a few days ago had set some parameters

492
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 1: for if Josh is given bail, and he's released on bail,

493
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 1: he is not allowed to live in a home with

494
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: any minor children, which means he can't live at his

495
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 1: own home since he has six one on the way.

496
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 1: He can't live with his parents because they still have

497
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 1: about ten or so kids still at home home, can't

498
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 1: live with any of his married siblings because they all

499
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: have children. So he have to find somewhere to live

500
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 1: that is not where there's not a minor child anywhere,

501
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 1: you know. To TROYE. Layton, high profile trial lawyer out

502
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 1: of LA When you think about what we were talking

503
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: about earlier, the wife standing by the husband in this case,

504
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 1: what about the threat he poses to those children. They're

505
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 1: soon to have seven children, and we know pedophiles, they

506
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 1: can't help it. They are going to pray on children. Period. Well,

507
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 1: that's why there's all sorts of risk assessments and mitigations

508
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 1: that could be placed the judge here, as Alexis trust

509
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: Check mentioned the federal judge Wiedmann in Arkansas stated that

510
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:56,959
Speaker 1: there would be certain bond conditions, namely that he can't

511
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,800
Speaker 1: be around minor children that would violate his bond and

512
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,399
Speaker 1: force him to be put right back in custody, and

513
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 1: also that he has to pay for a third party custodian.

514
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 1: That means basically a monitor that he would have to

515
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 1: pay for to make sure that he's not using the internet,

516
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:19,360
Speaker 1: not being around children. Good lord, that's a lot of time, energy,

517
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 1: and money. Why don't we just put him in jail

518
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 1: and leave him? How that sound? Because everybody is entitled

519
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 1: to bail. Everyone is entitled to bail. This is not

520
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 1: a capital offense, and he has not been convicted of

521
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: the crime. He may have been accused of child molestation

522
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 1: in the past, never convicted. He may be a cheater

523
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 1: beingon on Ashley Madison. That doesn't make him a criminal.

524
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: That's not a criminal act. So he's presumed not guilty

525
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 1: until proven guilty in a court of law. Okay, you

526
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 1: know what, Troy. I think Sometimes when you don't know

527
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 1: what to say, you drag out the presumption of innocence

528
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 1: and dust off the moth balls and start talking about that.

529
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 1: I are you, but all the monitoring and the watching,

530
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 1: and the money and the effort, and the und sleep

531
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 1: in jail. I think a lot of people might agree. Earlier,

532
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 1: you were hearing our friend less trend and inside edition

533
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 1: we wait as justice unfolds. God willing Nancy Grace crime story,

534
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 1: signing off, goodbye friend,