1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: Trust me? Do you trust me? 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 2: Right? Ever? Lead you astray tr us. 3 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: This is the truth, the only truth. 4 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 3: If anybody ever tells you to just trust them, don't 5 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:16,639 Speaker 3: welcome to trust me. The podcast about colds extreme belief 6 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 3: in manipulation from two girls who've been scammed, who've actually 7 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 3: experienced it. I'm Lola Blanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth. Was 8 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 3: a little redundant there, but that's okay. And in part 9 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 3: two with our guest Dan Olsen this week, who is 10 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 3: the creator and host of YouTube channel Folding Ideas, we 11 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,520 Speaker 3: are going to continue our conversation on cryptocurrency and NFTs. 12 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,240 Speaker 3: He is going to tell us about how these bubbles 13 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 3: are driven primarily by charismatic leaders, why success rates of 14 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:47,200 Speaker 3: investment into crypto and NFTs are likely similar to MLMs. 15 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 3: In other words, the vast majority of investors do not 16 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 3: win big, and why there's a lot of shame around 17 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 3: having lost money in this arena, but we think more 18 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 3: men should come forward with their stories. 19 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 2: He'll explain why there's no inherent difference between scam crypto 20 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 2: currencies and so called real cryptocurrencies, since all are rooted 21 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 2: in speculation and faith. Where the line is between greed 22 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 2: and just being a victim of American prosperity gospel and 23 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 2: what to look out for to prevent yourself from getting 24 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 2: scammed like we have been so many times. 25 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:21,319 Speaker 3: It makes it sound like we're just getting scammed non stop. 26 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 3: I mean, maybe before we talk to Dan Moore about 27 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 3: this Man Tech Money World, Megan, can you tell me 28 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 3: your cultist thing this week? Yeah, it's one that I 29 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 3: might join go on. 30 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 2: It's a high controlled spiritual movement, so okay, I mean 31 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 2: sounds sounds culty, but okay. 32 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 3: And it's in Italy. It's called da manhor Okay. It 33 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 3: sounds like you're saying the manhrr, but you are that. 34 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 3: I'm just trying to speak it down. Domn whor dommn 35 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 3: whor d a m a n h u are Yeah, 36 00:01:58,800 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 3: demn horror okay. 37 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 2: And it was started by a man named Alberto Ariati. 38 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:08,359 Speaker 3: Really good, Wow, thank you? Are you Italian? 39 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 2: Yeah? Here's a few things I like about the spiritual movement. 40 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 2: Underground tunnels, Okay, tell me more. The whole thing's underground. 41 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:19,359 Speaker 2: The whole thing's underground. Yeah, there's like a giant temple 42 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 2: underground and on their website. My my favorite thing about 43 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 2: it is also it's first red flag. Is that everywhere 44 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:29,359 Speaker 2: on its website it's like called by some the eighth 45 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 2: Wonder of the world. Okay, the underground temple is so giant. 46 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:37,079 Speaker 2: Wait how old is it? It was built in the seventies. Oh, 47 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 2: and you like weren't allowed to build the tunnel, and 48 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,800 Speaker 2: so they used to pretend they were having parties to 49 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 2: build the tunnel, so the legal underground tunnel. 50 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 3: Yeah. 51 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 2: So the townspeople were like distracted and then I think 52 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 2: the police, this is hearsay. Please, I'm too busy to 53 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 2: be sued. But I think the police were like, you 54 00:02:57,639 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 2: got to destroy the tunnel. And then they went and 55 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 2: look at it, and we're like, oh, it's so pretty, 56 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 2: and it is. 57 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 3: You have to go. 58 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 2: Okay, it's crazy. She showed me pictures and it is 59 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:13,079 Speaker 2: really beautiful. It's crazy. So calling yourself the eighth Wonder 60 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 2: of the world, like you're kind of already serving Keith Nary. 61 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:19,519 Speaker 3: But what if I'm the eighth one? Yeah, I mean, 62 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 3: but see that's what I'm saying. It's already Keith Nary, 63 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 3: like I'm the you know how he. 64 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 2: Was Australia's Guinness Book of World records smartest man like 65 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 2: he in the world. Yeah, he just like made a 66 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 2: category for himself, Like you can't really do that, you know, 67 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 2: nobody else is calling them that. But one of the 68 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 2: things I really like about it is that, well, number 69 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 2: one it's in northern othera number two which is beautiful, 70 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 2: and number two it's a lot about time travelim jumping. 71 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 3: Tell me more. 72 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 2: There's the School of Meditation. There's these pods that you 73 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 2: sit in that bring you through time literally as a 74 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 2: time traveler, but like in your mind. Yeah, okay, cool, yeah, yeah, yeah, 75 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 2: I mean sign me up, sign me up. But then 76 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 2: of course the other shoe drops, and it's like if 77 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 2: you aren't doing what they say, they have a you. 78 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 3: Have to work really hard. Of course you do. 79 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, And if you don't do what they say, they're 80 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 2: like you're excluded. You can't come to church. And if 81 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 2: you can't go to normal church, it's like who gives 82 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 2: a ship? But if you can't go to time travel church, 83 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 2: oh my god, that's mean. 84 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 3: And then is the time travel like do you have 85 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 3: to time? Like is it? What is their purpose of 86 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:31,600 Speaker 3: the time travel? 87 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 2: I think they're like they're they're trying to figure out 88 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 2: some timeline jumping that'll kind of help bring about world peace. 89 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 3: I'm making that up. 90 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 2: Okay, the mission, but I believe you the mission remains 91 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 2: unclear to me. 92 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 3: And they're very welcoming. 93 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 2: A lot of YouTubers go and uh well, at least 94 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 2: I saw a few go and like tour it and 95 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 2: it's very impressive. It's very beautiful, and they're like so 96 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 2: kind and welcoming and normal seeming that you're just. 97 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 3: Like, yeah, let's just do that, grow your own food. Well, 98 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 3: they have to, I mean, yeah, they're not going to 99 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 3: attract people if they're not friendly. 100 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 2: So then, you know, I went online and read people 101 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 2: who had bad experience sexual coersion, being coerced into sexual relationships. 102 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 2: The leader was very angry, okay, being separated from your children. 103 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 3: Oh my god, why do they always do that allegedly? Okay? 104 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 2: And you know, just a lot of things that's like 105 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 2: why why can't it just be the underground temples and 106 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,359 Speaker 2: the golden mirrors and the secret rituals and the spiritual 107 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 2: technology and the community currency. There's like no money. Why 108 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 2: does it have to be always about somebody wanting to 109 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:45,599 Speaker 2: have sex? 110 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean I think sometimes it's not Sometimes people 111 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 3: are just going to church. But when it's like, seems 112 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 3: so over the top and special, and it was made 113 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 3: in the seventies when everyone was on LSD, Like I 114 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:01,359 Speaker 3: don't know. 115 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 2: One of the places is called the Hall of Mirrors, 116 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:06,279 Speaker 2: and it's so dope cool. 117 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 3: I know, I know. We can't we can't talk about 118 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 3: it anymore because like we're all gonna go join it. 119 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 3: I mean, we should visit it. We should visit it. 120 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 3: Whoever wants to pay for that trip hit us up, 121 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 3: and whoever wants. 122 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 2: To pay for the cult interventionists I'm going to need 123 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 2: in order to leave. 124 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 3: Let us know, we'll hit up some of our previous guests. Yes, Lela, 125 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 3: what's your cultiest thing of the week. I I don't 126 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:39,719 Speaker 3: know why I'm using that tone. I stumbled upon a 127 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:43,599 Speaker 3: term that I don't think I knew, Like, I'm like, 128 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 3: if we talked about it, it was years ago and I forgot. 129 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 3: Which is This term is collective effervescence anything No, all right. 130 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 3: It's a sociological concept coins by a guy named Emil Durkheim. 131 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 3: It describes something we talk about a lot, which is 132 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 3: I'm reading the Wikipedia right now. It's when a community 133 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 3: or society come together and simultaneously communicate the same thought 134 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 3: or participate in the same action, and such events cause 135 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 3: this collective efforbescence, which is basically just like a shared 136 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 3: peak experience or like a sense of awe. I immediately 137 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 3: thought concert rave and religious rituals. It's just like any 138 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 3: ritual where people are doing the same thing together and 139 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 3: experience like a heightened emotional state. Can't believe. I didn't 140 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 3: know the term, and we talk about that like every 141 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 3: other episode basically, But then I was just reading a 142 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 3: little bit more about it, and I just think it's 143 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 3: super interesting. I'm now going to read an excerpt from 144 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 3: a study called perceived emotional synchrony. I didn't even know 145 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 3: there was a word synchrony, synchrony and collective. I thought 146 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 3: it was synchronicity, But that's a different thing. This is 147 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 3: a different word, perceived emotional synchrony and collective gatherings. Validation 148 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:04,119 Speaker 3: of a short scale and proposition of an integrative measure. Okay, 149 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 3: this is in Frontiers. Okay at the end. Basically skipping 150 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 3: to the end here, it says in some rituals reinforce emotions, 151 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 3: particularly positive collective emotions, such as awe moral inspiration and 152 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 3: hope through pes perceived emotional synchrony, and this is how 153 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 3: they strengthen social cohesion and increase well being. The collective 154 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 3: rituals have social consequences in the relations between nations and 155 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 3: social groups. National identities need patriotic rituals to share a 156 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:35,959 Speaker 3: sense of pertinence and sacred values and to perpetuate intergroup conflicts, 157 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 3: as shown in this Chilean ritual study that they were 158 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 3: talking about here. In some collective rituals, irrespective of their 159 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 3: emotional content, it could be joyful feasts, sad funerals, or 160 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 3: patriotic rituals empower the individual, reinforce social ties, and motivate 161 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 3: moral commitment to groups, to leaders, and to values. Which 162 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 3: is just a sociology way of saying that when you 163 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 3: have a peak experience with your colt or your group 164 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 3: or your nation or whatever the fuck it is, it's 165 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 3: going to connect you more deeply with that thing. Yeah. 166 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:12,679 Speaker 2: I think what comes to mind immediately is like Christian nationalism. 167 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 2: I kind of deconstructed that live on the podcast. I 168 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 2: think over a period of time where I was like, 169 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 2: I don't know the pledge of allegiance when I was younger, 170 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 2: standing up and being like under God, Like even though 171 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,839 Speaker 2: I don't technically believe that that is an old man 172 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 2: in the sky, like, it just feels it felt comforting, 173 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 2: yes to me, right, and then you can see how like, oh, actually, 174 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 2: when all these nations are saying these things and they 175 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 2: are all different gods, it can lead to quite. 176 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:46,319 Speaker 3: A lot war, you might say. War. 177 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, you might say, but it did bring me comfort, 178 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 2: And that's what first came to my mind. 179 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think, like in any group, whenever there 180 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 3: is a goal that we're going after, like war, for example, 181 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 3: the way to get people on board with it is 182 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 3: to have these intense rituals and to make it feel 183 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 3: really infused with meaning and purpose and this like shared 184 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 3: collective identity. And yeah, it's just an interesting thing to 185 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 3: be aware of in general, like because when we do 186 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 3: have those experiences, whether it is at a concert or 187 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 3: a church or at a political rally or whatever, like 188 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 3: that thing is gonna make us feel more deeply connected 189 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 3: to whatever it is. And that can be good, and 190 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 3: that can be used you know as like this wonderful 191 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 3: way to connect with people, or it can be used 192 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 3: to manipulate us, so you know who that's Michael DA's thing. 193 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 2: Well, it does kind of go into what we talk 194 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:43,079 Speaker 2: about with Dan today. 195 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:48,079 Speaker 3: Do you wanna art? I was gonna say, do you 196 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 3: want to make the connection? Oh? Yes, uh that part out. 197 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 3: I liked it. Yeah, we will talk a little bit 198 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 3: about this may American idea bootstrap in yourself and you're 199 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 3: gonna be a billionaire. And maybe some of the stuff 200 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 3: we talk about today falls under the category of a 201 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:10,959 Speaker 3: shared ritual. 202 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,680 Speaker 2: But just like on the internet crypto ritual, get on 203 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:29,840 Speaker 2: in here endless Okay, yeah, okay, let's say that I'm 204 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 2: a contrarian, but I'm in this community and I start 205 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 2: talking a little bit of shit on it, right, would 206 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 2: my fellow crypto nft is it kind of a scientology 207 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 2: thing where they would wrap me out? 208 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:42,439 Speaker 3: Are we? 209 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: If you have the charisma, if you got riz, then 210 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 1: you can yeah, like you can be a taste maker. 211 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:57,079 Speaker 1: You can be a contrarian in the in the community 212 00:11:57,160 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: and be a taste maker. But that means that you're 213 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 1: some like you're almost certainly engaging in Oh well, this thing, 214 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 1: this thing over here, it's crap. It's going to zero, 215 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: and people who are holding it are like de Lulu, 216 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: what you need to get in on is Terra Terra 217 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,559 Speaker 1: and FTX. Those are the ones that are going to 218 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 1: go to the moon, right, is like, you can be 219 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:24,439 Speaker 1: a contrarian, but it's almost always man like. It almost 220 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:28,839 Speaker 1: always shows up as like redirection. It taste making got you. 221 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 3: So this speaks to the point Megan was making earlier, 222 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 3: which is like, how much of this nebulous intangible market 223 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 3: is driven just by these like charismatic individuals who are 224 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 3: kind of seem confident in telling people what to. 225 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 1: Do almost all of it. 226 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, so they are the they are the terra raiders 227 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 2: that are like, I mean, you have to be pretty 228 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 2: I'm trying to choose my word my words wisely, Like 229 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 2: let's say you're psychic quote unquote and you're like, you're 230 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 2: gonna have a kid next year, Like, you gotta be 231 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:12,679 Speaker 2: a little bit to tell someone that, because when it 232 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 2: doesn't happen, or in this case, when your money doesn't 233 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 2: come to fruition or maybe even the whole thing falls apart, 234 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 2: I imagine there's a lot of cognitive dissonance and that 235 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 2: for people. 236 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, but the way to navigate through that on 237 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: behalf of the tastemakers. You know, that's a very well 238 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,679 Speaker 1: trod path. We've had grifters and conmen doing that for centuries, 239 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: which is, well, did you believe correctly? 240 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 3: Shit? Yes, yeah, say more about that, because yeah, say 241 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:44,719 Speaker 3: more about that. 242 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 1: The ultimate way that most grifters and con men redirect 243 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 1: people for failed prophecies is just making it your fault 244 00:13:55,880 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: for believing wrong or pointing to some nebulous, some unfalsifiable 245 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:10,719 Speaker 1: element of your behavior that altered the course of history. 246 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 3: And a leader in this space of what might be 247 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 3: something they would point to that's your fault, just like 248 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 3: because you didn't have enough faith in it and. 249 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: You weren't paying enough attention. Oh, too many of you 250 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 1: paper hands, too many of you like you, You didn't 251 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: you didn't believe hard enough. You know, the community collectively 252 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,119 Speaker 1: lost faith in the thing and that's why it collapsed. 253 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: Or you point to something like, well, sure that one 254 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: went poorly, but that specific you know, you didn't see 255 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: the warning signs that that guy was actually a bad actor, 256 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: that guy was a grifter, that guy was like he 257 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: was a plant, he was actually like you know, you 258 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: get all of these narratives that get spun up, and 259 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: they're all very insubstantial. They're very cyclical. Most of them 260 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 1: don't stick. It's just like everything gets spit out until 261 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 1: sort of a consensus narrative ends up forming, uh, and 262 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: a lot of it just gets memory hold. So you know, 263 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: the the whole Terra collapse was just like, well, you 264 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: should have known that that guy was incompetent clearly based 265 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: off if you had read the white paper and audit 266 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: it the way that it was working, you would have 267 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: seen that it was going to like that it was 268 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 1: going to go to zero. You should have audited it harder. 269 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: Bro Right. 270 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, So like you. 271 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 1: Get that narrative in FTX, it was well, clearly if 272 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: you were paying attention, you would have noticed that, like 273 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: Sam bankman, Freed wasn't up to was up to no good. 274 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: In fact, I think he's actually an Obama plant. Oh 275 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: my god, I think he's a I think he's a 276 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 1: bad actor. That the man sort of like they they 277 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: made him go into all of this and like set 278 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 1: this up in order to discredit Crypto. 279 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 3: Of course, you kind of did this thing that you 280 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 3: talk about where you joined like every scam Crypto or 281 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 3: NFT like chat Rod. 282 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: Still I am still sorting through the consequences of that decision. 283 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 3: And like and the point that you made, which I'll 284 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 3: just have you say yourself, but was that there? You know, 285 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 3: in theory, these are like these scammy t move versions 286 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 3: of Party eight, Billionaire Club or whatever. It's like these 287 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 3: random ass like scam and ft things, except that what's 288 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 3: the difference between those and the ones that were successful? Please? 289 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: Nothing, There's no difference between them. They they It is 290 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 1: the same narrative, It is the same foundation, It is 291 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 1: the same We have algorithmically generated ten thousand JPEGs combining 292 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: random aspects of you know, along a bog standard rarity 293 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 1: distribution curve that we just took from Magic the gathering 294 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: and the core of it was that I went through 295 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: all of these all of these discords, and I read 296 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 1: just days and days and days worth of communication between 297 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 1: people and dug into all of these different projects, and 298 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 1: you know the difference between what was that one called 299 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: Camel Rider Millionaire Club and board Ape Yacht Club was nothing. 300 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: It was just one was successful and one wasn't. 301 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:33,359 Speaker 3: Right, And it seems like maybe the difference in the 302 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 3: ones that were successful were this thing where they had 303 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 3: someone leading it that people check did and believed in. 304 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: They either had a charismatic leader or they had art. 305 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,440 Speaker 1: That was The thing I will give Board Ape Yacht 306 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: Club is that while the characters are repulsive, they are 307 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 1: also instantly identifiable, and they do have a sort of 308 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 1: like gross charisma to them, like in a sort of 309 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: car crash I can't look away sort of way. Like 310 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: I do comprehend why people found board apes compelling artistically, 311 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 1: even if it is like not good. 312 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 3: Right, Wait, did I confuse two different is there? 313 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: You did? But I don't blame you, because Party eight 314 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 1: Billionaire Club is a real thing. It is a board 315 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 1: ape knockoff. Okay, that's very similar. 316 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 3: And you know, jiha, can you use me saying board 317 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 3: Ape Yacht Club instead of Party aha billionaire The MLM comparison, Yeah, 318 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 3: And first of all, I take issue speaking of like 319 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 3: gendered differences, like we talk about MLMs like their cults. 320 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 3: I don't think we spend nearly enough time talking about 321 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 3: like NFTs and crypto stuff, like they're cult in the 322 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 3: same way. It's the same fucking thing, it's the same dream, 323 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 3: it's the same well. 324 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 2: I mean, one of the things that we haven't touched 325 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:12,159 Speaker 2: on yet, but that makes it so important is that 326 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,880 Speaker 2: they've made it so overcomplicated that the lay person has 327 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 2: no idea what you're talking about. So unlike an MLM 328 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 2: where it's like Mary, kay, I get it. This is 329 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 2: so complicated that it sounds smart even two smart people. 330 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 3: Correct. 331 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:33,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's obfuscated and so well. And that's constructed in 332 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: part because one, it is non trivial to navigate how 333 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 1: to get into it, and that serves a narrative of like, well, 334 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: this is an exclusive club you've got to be You've 335 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 1: got to ask a certain IQ to get in this door, 336 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 1: which then of course meet like, which then of course 337 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,399 Speaker 1: naturally feeds into the next narrative down the road of like, 338 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:01,160 Speaker 1: well we got through the door, are clearly all high 339 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 1: IQ individuals? Would this be a scam if we were 340 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 1: all high IQ individuals? So it's like which is then 341 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: used to build trust, which is then used to et cetera, 342 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. 343 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,880 Speaker 3: Right. I can't remember the exact statistic that we've talked 344 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 3: about on the show with MLM experts, but the vast, vast, 345 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 3: vast majority of MLM participants do not even break even 346 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 3: and be certified. They look at, you know, these very 347 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 3: very minuscule amount of people who seem to be making 348 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 3: it and like incredibly wealthy and believe that they're going 349 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 3: to get to that point. Are their stats on crypto 350 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 3: n FT's Like what the difference is. 351 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:47,399 Speaker 1: Not really mostly because they're more difficult to track, right, Like, 352 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:52,199 Speaker 1: it is more opaque, and there is due to the 353 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:58,679 Speaker 1: fact that it is a very macho endeavor, there is 354 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 1: a shame element failure. This makes it a lot more 355 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: common for people who fail out to just like bury it. 356 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 3: And that's why we don't get to talk to enough 357 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,399 Speaker 3: men who've experienced stuff like this, which I feel like 358 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 3: makes it seem like women are the only ones who 359 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 3: fall for scams and cults because we're more willing to 360 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,360 Speaker 3: talk about it and have those conversations. And I really 361 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 3: wish that there were a culture shift around that and 362 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,200 Speaker 3: some of the stigma would be removed because it happened 363 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 3: to so many people. 364 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, and then there's also the like the ephemeral nature 365 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: of the tokens that are being traded, right that a 366 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 1: lot of these guys who have like in theory like 367 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: they've lost tremendous amounts of money doing this stuff, what 368 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 1: they've actually lost is all paper wealth, Right, They they 369 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 1: mind bitcoin fifteen years ago and then used that to 370 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: buy ethereum and then use that to buy a board ape, 371 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,360 Speaker 1: and the board ape price crashed, and so their paper 372 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,400 Speaker 1: wealth has like it's like, oh, I've lost millions of dollars, 373 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:07,400 Speaker 1: but it has always existed in this crypto ecosystem, right, right. 374 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 3: But we know generally speaking that most people aren't making 375 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:13,640 Speaker 3: most people are not getting rich. 376 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, objectively, the vast majority of participants in crypto 377 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: are just not winning because it's not a game that 378 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,199 Speaker 1: very many people can win. It essentially comes down to 379 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:31,920 Speaker 1: the luck of like, you know, did you time things 380 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 1: right and did you cash out like when you were 381 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: actually in the green. That's the big thing is a 382 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: lot of people they diamond hands themselves back down into 383 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,640 Speaker 1: the red or back down to break even. Then the 384 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 1: other factor in why we don't have good stats is 385 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: also a lot of this stuff is just kind of 386 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 1: like so new that there's not a foundation of data 387 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 1: to look at. You know, most of the studies about 388 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,159 Speaker 1: MLMs are able to go all the way back to 389 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:01,399 Speaker 1: like the sixties and seventies, and. 390 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 2: Why people probably haven't even processed what's happened to them 391 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 2: totally a lot of people might not have even realized 392 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 2: it yet. 393 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know. Yeah, So if any men are listening 394 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 3: who had participated in a crypto scam, even if you 395 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:17,959 Speaker 3: feel a little embarrassed, come on and chat with us 396 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,920 Speaker 3: about it. We won't make you feel bad. No, we've 397 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 3: all fallen for scams. 398 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,880 Speaker 2: I would have invested in crypto if I under they 399 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 2: made it too complicated. 400 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:31,400 Speaker 3: If I had had money, Yeah, one hundred percent, one million, bazillion. 401 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,440 Speaker 3: Everyone I knew was like you good and get rich, 402 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:35,680 Speaker 3: go get crypto. 403 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'd have twenty dos quins. 404 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 3: Good. 405 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:45,400 Speaker 1: I mean, there are a few that I can give 406 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,879 Speaker 1: you the stats on, So like one hundred percent of 407 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: the people who bought squid lost everything. 408 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 3: Shit, that's crazy, it's crazy. 409 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 1: And I think that's the that's the one that also 410 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: like further compounds the like the confusion, and because the 411 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: thing is, it's like the number of MLMs that have 412 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 1: been like truly one hundred percent illusory scams is relatively 413 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,919 Speaker 1: few compared to the number that are just exploitatively structured. 414 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,160 Speaker 2: Right, Like there's tupperware, we get top aware, you get 415 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 2: the tupperware, you get the protein powder, you get the 416 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,399 Speaker 2: overpriced to price, you get the whatever. 417 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, there there is a product. It's a 418 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: bad product, it's an overpriced product, but it exists. And 419 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: the number of just like pure scams, the number of 420 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,159 Speaker 1: things on the level of squid coin that it's like 421 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 1: the thing never existed, and squid. 422 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 3: Coin was like it was after squid Game came out. 423 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:45,880 Speaker 3: Some people were like. 424 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: People that were just like, this is squid coin and 425 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,160 Speaker 1: it's like and they just they just lifted squid games 426 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: ip you know, screen grabs and the the general like 427 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 1: esthetic for all of their branding, and they made it 428 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 1: look like they were affiliate and it was very obviously 429 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:07,400 Speaker 1: not affiliated at all. But they they ran this hustle. 430 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: They made a market by basically buying their own thing 431 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,120 Speaker 1: in order to create the illusion of activity, and that 432 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 1: created the narrative of like, oh, this is about to 433 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:17,919 Speaker 1: blow up, and it's based off a squid game, and 434 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 1: even if this is probably a scam, I'm smarter than 435 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,200 Speaker 1: the other people, so I'm going to get in early 436 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna but like, you know, because it's based 437 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,399 Speaker 1: off a squid game, a bunch of dumb normies are 438 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: probably going to come in and they're going to buy it, 439 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,160 Speaker 1: and that's going to cause it to a thousand decks, 440 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,439 Speaker 1: and so I'm going to buy in early, wait for 441 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 1: it to a thousand cks, and then I'm going to 442 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 1: jump ship. So like you wound up actually with a 443 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 1: lot of people getting in on it who figured that 444 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: they were like smarter than the people who were coming after. 445 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,479 Speaker 1: And it's like, all right, it's going to start going up. 446 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 1: And then once it goes up, that becomes a self 447 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 1: reinforcing narrative of this is a spot to make a 448 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 1: lot of money. And then you're going to get the 449 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 1: late comers, and those late comers are going to really 450 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 1: like really make it go to the moon. And then 451 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 1: I'm going to jump off the bat out and get 452 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 1: my bag and like I don't actually care if it 453 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 1: is a scam because I know how to like I 454 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 1: know how to read a scam, and I'm gonna get out, 455 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 1: you know. So you wound up with this flood, This 456 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:16,680 Speaker 1: just absolute flood of people who were like all reasonably 457 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 1: certain that they were buying into a scam, convinced that 458 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 1: they were smarter than the scam itself, and we're going 459 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,200 Speaker 1: to be the ones to come out ahead. And then 460 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: just the beauty of it, just the simplistic beauty of it, 461 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 1: of the coin cannot be sold right, right, And so 462 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 1: you have this wave of people convinced they're smarter than 463 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 1: the scam and then you can't check out. 464 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 3: That's so wild. 465 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 1: You are trapped here, thank you for the money, and 466 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: they disappeared so fast it was art. 467 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 3: I'm laughing because it is funny, but also I feel 468 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,440 Speaker 3: it is important to say that so many intelligent people 469 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:02,719 Speaker 3: fall for scams all the time. Yeah, and you know, 470 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 3: like most of our guests are incredibly smart and reasonable 471 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 3: and like just in the right circumstances of their life 472 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 3: with the right person manipulating them at the right time, 473 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 3: you know what I mean. Like, I actually I don't 474 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,880 Speaker 3: think people are stupid. I think that there's so much 475 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,199 Speaker 3: identity tied up with these communities and these cultures, and 476 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 3: I wondered if you could say a little bit about 477 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 3: that identity and like the meaning people are getting from 478 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,680 Speaker 3: feeling like they're in that community and if there's something 479 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 3: they seem to have in common. 480 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 1: The big thing is that it's it is hard to 481 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:43,400 Speaker 1: be charitable when you spend enough time reading these people's communication. 482 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 3: And right, that's probably our missay. 483 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 1: Case, a lot of them there. There is the charitable 484 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 1: element is that there are a lot of things that 485 00:27:53,920 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: are wrong with the world, and people are hungry for solutions. 486 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:05,719 Speaker 1: And there are people who who have convinced themselves that 487 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 1: the solution to a corrupt world is to have the 488 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: most avarice, to just to be the most acquisitive, to 489 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 1: be the greediest, to be the most consumptive thing that 490 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:27,360 Speaker 1: you can be, and they transform themselves into this person 491 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 1: via narrative, via identity, via community, of just relentlessly shilling 492 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 1: the next big thing to anyone who listens. It is 493 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: an environment that trains its participants to themselves become scammers. 494 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 3: I mean you're in Canada, right, yeah. Yeah. At least 495 00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 3: here in the US, we are so deeply embedded in 496 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 3: this culture that tells us that we can be rich 497 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 3: and we can be billionaires, and we should be and 498 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 3: that makes us good if we are, and there is 499 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 3: no alternative. So much of the air we're living and 500 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 3: breathing is giving us this messaging of like, get rich 501 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 3: and you deserve to be and there's something wrong with 502 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 3: you if you're not. And also like, it also makes 503 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 3: sense in our system that we feel this way because literally, 504 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 3: you don't get healthcare if you aren't rich, like you 505 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 3: probably can't afford to buy a house. Like there's so 506 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 3: much about American culture specifically that like I can't necessarily 507 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 3: blame people for starting down that path of like I 508 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 3: want to make a bunch of money, but I guess 509 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 3: it's like when it becomes exploitative of others that I'm like, Okay, 510 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 3: let's not do that. 511 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 2: What's the like, what's the Is this an urban legend 512 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 2: that somebody said, hey, if you buy me a pizza, 513 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 2: give you all this bitcoin, and then the person. 514 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: So that actually happened, Okay. So the mythological version is 515 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 1: that this guy in Florida bought a pizza for ten 516 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 1: thousand bitcoin, Okay, and so now the pizza guy is 517 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 1: a multi billionaire because that ten thousand bitcoin is now 518 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: worth whatever it's worth at the time the story is 519 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 1: being told. The actual version is that two guys on 520 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 1: a bitcoin for him decided to arrange a thing where 521 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: the one dude is like, hey, if someone will go 522 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 1: to this pizza place and pick up a large pepperoni 523 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 1: and drive it to my place, I will give him 524 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 1: ten thousand. 525 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 2: Bitcoin, right okay, and so did that bitcoin that the 526 00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 2: person got that ended up I'm using quotation marks exploded ving. 527 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 3: I mean, does that person now have a lot of money? 528 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 1: Maybe no, one really. Like the fate of the guy 529 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 1: who actually like brought the pizza to him is a 530 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 1: little more obvious scated. His identity is a bit more 531 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: obfuscated than the identity of the guy who bought the pizza, right, 532 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: But I mean presumably maybe he cashed out a bunch 533 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 1: of it at some point. Maybe he's still diamond handsing it. Like, 534 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 1: who knows. 535 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 3: I've heard of people. 536 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:29,960 Speaker 2: You know, it's so sad to me when there's people 537 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 2: who forgot their password or whatever. Okay, I know, well 538 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 2: in the news, I'm going to say two things really quickly, 539 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 2: and you can tell me of either of these things 540 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 2: are interesting or not. Number one, the guy on the 541 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 2: two people in Brooklyn who took a guy and tortured 542 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 2: him for fifteen days for his bitcoin password. Have you 543 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 2: seen this? 544 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean that's not even the tenth time 545 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 1: that's happened. 546 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, So, I mean it's a very dangerous business. 547 00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, sort of one of the one of the grotesque 548 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 1: flaws in bitcoin, and this like this whole untraceable money 549 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:09,320 Speaker 1: is that it turns out that just like a sack 550 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 1: of cash that you have hidden in the backyard, if 551 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 1: the wrong people learned that you have a very large 552 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: sack of cash hidden in your backyard, well sure your 553 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: account might be like unhackable, Uh, but your kneecaps aren't. 554 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 2: Oh my god, right, I mean, this man was like 555 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 2: lit on fire, horrified his passwords. 556 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 3: Wait what ended up happening to him? 557 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 2: He ran out and found a police officer while they 558 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 2: were in the other room, and. 559 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 3: He never Wow. 560 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and there's a lot of stories like 561 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 1: that that have gone both directions, right where people have 562 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: ultimately like given up the password, where people are just 563 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 1: being killed where yeah, no, it's happened a bunch because 564 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,719 Speaker 1: like this intersects so well with the criminal world, because 565 00:32:56,000 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 1: the primary value of untraceable currency is crime. The lightweight 566 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,480 Speaker 1: fun version is just that, like there's a lot of 567 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: people right now who can look up the current location 568 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 1: of their bitcoin. There's a whole system that you can 569 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 1: use to look up your bitcoin. If you can find 570 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,120 Speaker 1: your wallet address, like your former wallet address, and you 571 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 1: can see your you know, in the what bitcoin was 572 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 1: up to, Like a it was a like one hundred 573 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 1: and twenty five thousand all time high last year, something 574 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: like that, And so it's like, ah, there's my two 575 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 1: point seven million dollars worth of bitcoin sitting in this 576 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 1: wallet controlled by the FBI because it was in escrow 577 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 1: at it was in escrow at Silk Road at the 578 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: time of the sea. 579 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 3: Do you see any parallels between, for example, the flat 580 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 3: earth or community that you explored and communities like. 581 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 1: This, Yes, But primarily what I see is a very 582 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 1: human instinct that I see in a lot of places. 583 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:09,920 Speaker 1: So not to stay like straight parallel, but I see 584 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 1: an expression of humanity in both of them, which is 585 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 1: just motivated reasoning that by and large, people believe things 586 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:24,879 Speaker 1: because it will confirm something else, or it justifies something else, 587 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:30,800 Speaker 1: or it motivates something else. And ideally that underlying motivation 588 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,760 Speaker 1: is a sense of like I have a good grasp 589 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,399 Speaker 1: on reality as it exists. You know, I know more 590 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:41,080 Speaker 1: about the world. I have been given knowledge that empowers 591 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: me to accomplish things or do things, or you know, 592 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:51,320 Speaker 1: achieve things. And sometimes it's a narrative that empowers your 593 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 1: worst behaviors and says that oh it is okay to 594 00:34:55,800 --> 00:35:05,319 Speaker 1: be greedy and consumptive and acquisitive and exploitative, because you know, 595 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 1: wealth is good. Wealth makes me a good person. There's 596 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 1: an old there's an old saying that not every American 597 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,719 Speaker 1: is a Christian, but they are all Calvinists. That the 598 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:26,920 Speaker 1: sort of belief in predestination, and in America a predestination 599 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:32,400 Speaker 1: to wealth. America is a country of temporarily embarrassed millionaires. 600 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:32,879 Speaker 2: Yeah. 601 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,759 Speaker 1: That that is, you know, ordained in the stars, and 602 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 1: that whatever actions you take in or that move you 603 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: towards that are per se justified. That's ultimately the parallel 604 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:51,280 Speaker 1: that I see is people using a story to justify 605 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:52,840 Speaker 1: a thing that they already wanted. 606 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 3: Right, is there a particular type of person or demographic 607 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:03,560 Speaker 3: that seems to be particularly susceptible to NFT crypto scams? 608 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:08,280 Speaker 1: The crypto narrative is heavily gendered. It relies very very 609 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:12,880 Speaker 1: very much on macho narratives that we see in finance, 610 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,799 Speaker 1: that we see in real estate, that we see in business. 611 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:21,839 Speaker 1: It lifts very heavily from the outward signifiers of that, 612 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:23,960 Speaker 1: fast cars, beautiful women. 613 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 2: What about what about gamer? Has it entered the gamer spirit? Oh? 614 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:33,759 Speaker 1: Yes, okay, it is like basically the Mark Zuckerberg ification 615 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,799 Speaker 1: of that. It's like you take a Gordon Gecko, you 616 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,440 Speaker 1: put him in a hoodie, you give him, you give 617 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 1: him a laptop that has Diablo for installed on it, 618 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 1: and you tell him that It's like, oh, sure, your 619 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:52,799 Speaker 1: dad or your grandpa lost all his money betting on 620 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,520 Speaker 1: penny stocks. Well, this is your opportunity to lose all 621 00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 1: your money on something stupid that. 622 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 2: Doesn't exist, and I I don't want to do it. 623 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 1: It's penny stocks for gamers. 624 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:10,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Have you ever invested in crypto? 625 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 1: Invested in crypto? No, but I have held I have 626 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 1: held a few different cryptos for various purposes. 627 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 3: At times interesting. 628 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 1: Okay, so like that sounds cagyin the main one was 629 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:29,600 Speaker 1: I had a little bitcoin back in twenty eleven twenty twelve, 630 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,640 Speaker 1: mainly because I was like, okay, like what's going on here? 631 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:34,920 Speaker 1: Like I was hearing all of these stories. I was 632 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 1: hearing it's like digital cash da da da da da da, 633 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 1: And I'm like, well, let's find out if this is 634 00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 1: actually like you're hearing the narrative, what does it actually mean? 635 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,640 Speaker 1: What does it mean to buy something with bitcoin? Can 636 00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 1: you buy something with bitcoin? What happens. How convenient is it? 637 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,799 Speaker 1: And it turns out it was like extremely inconvenient and 638 00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:59,040 Speaker 1: very difficult, and you know, the pathways and systems weren't there, 639 00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:02,760 Speaker 1: and it took days to do anything. And I was like, Okay, 640 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,239 Speaker 1: this is not This is not going mainstream anytime soon, 641 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,520 Speaker 1: not as not as like a currency. This story of 642 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:13,040 Speaker 1: like digital cash is dead in the water. So I 643 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:18,839 Speaker 1: had bitcoin then and the FBI has it now, And 644 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,399 Speaker 1: then I had some various things that I just sort 645 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:27,120 Speaker 1: of used for essentially the same kind of like testing 646 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 1: the system functionality during the production of line goes up. 647 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,799 Speaker 1: And those are all gone now either I offloaded them 648 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,400 Speaker 1: or just they were worth nothing and I just forgot 649 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:39,560 Speaker 1: the right. 650 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:43,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, in general, how do we maintain a healthy dose 651 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:50,440 Speaker 3: of skepticism about these promises of wealth and success in 652 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:51,520 Speaker 3: the tech realm? 653 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,800 Speaker 1: If anyone tells you you need to jump on something 654 00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:59,440 Speaker 1: before it's too late, they're wrong. And then, just like this, 655 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:03,960 Speaker 1: the old standbys for anything any financial advice, don't spend 656 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 1: more than you can afford. If it sounds too good 657 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,759 Speaker 1: to be true, it probably is. If it is the future, 658 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,600 Speaker 1: then you know there's no such thing as too late, 659 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:15,879 Speaker 1: And if there is such a thing as too late, 660 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,279 Speaker 1: then what someone was talking about wasn't investing. They were 661 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:20,200 Speaker 1: talking about gambling, right. 662 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,879 Speaker 2: Perfect, Okay, I'm gonna throw I'm gonna throw a few 663 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:26,000 Speaker 2: things at you super quickly. 664 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:26,400 Speaker 1: Sure. 665 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,759 Speaker 2: So I went into the Epstein files to look at 666 00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:32,719 Speaker 2: emails that are very disturbing, and it's like, oh, it 667 00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:36,080 Speaker 2: looks like Epstein kind of started some of this crypto shit. 668 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,839 Speaker 2: I don't know, but I just want to throw out 669 00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,160 Speaker 2: there that After I was looking at all of this stuff, 670 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,040 Speaker 2: I would sometimes go look to see what people were 671 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:47,240 Speaker 2: saying about some of the emails on Instagram or TikTok, 672 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,480 Speaker 2: And after I would be going down that rabbit hole 673 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,920 Speaker 2: for a while, flat Earth videos started popping up in 674 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,719 Speaker 2: my algorithm really, and I was like, my head was 675 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:01,799 Speaker 2: so turned upside down, was so shaken to its core 676 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:03,960 Speaker 2: that I was like, yeah, you're. 677 00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:05,800 Speaker 3: Like maybe yeah, wow. 678 00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,440 Speaker 2: And it was just so interesting how a lot of 679 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:12,960 Speaker 2: these emails were wanting to get children to start buying 680 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:17,799 Speaker 2: things in games that you know they're using to kind 681 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,040 Speaker 2: of get them I forgot exactly how he put it, 682 00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,960 Speaker 2: but get them into the uh, what's economy economy on 683 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:26,960 Speaker 2: them on board? On board them into the economy, and 684 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,319 Speaker 2: and it was just so trippy and and it was 685 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,799 Speaker 2: it's just funny that the two things we're talking about intersected. 686 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:36,239 Speaker 2: And it's really funny where I suddenly became susceptible to 687 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:37,839 Speaker 2: something ridiculous. 688 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,719 Speaker 1: And I would assume that the the algorithmic tie. There 689 00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:46,319 Speaker 1: is more that, like the Epstein files are fascinating and 690 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:51,240 Speaker 1: a measure of actual conspiracy. But people who love really 691 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:55,320 Speaker 1: wacky conspiracies really love digging through the files and spending 692 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:59,200 Speaker 1: their whole time like baking them and finding truly bizarre 693 00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:01,480 Speaker 1: stuff that like does not exist. It's like, no, there's 694 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:04,640 Speaker 1: enough evil here, there's enough evil here that like happened. 695 00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:07,160 Speaker 1: We don't need to make stuff up on top of it. 696 00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:11,760 Speaker 3: Oh thank you. If we cared enough about actual victims 697 00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,080 Speaker 3: of sexual assault, we wouldn't need to find all of 698 00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,680 Speaker 3: this other crazy shit like their ICI right there. 699 00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:20,520 Speaker 1: There's also like, uh, clearly they were trying to summon 700 00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:21,040 Speaker 1: the devil. 701 00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,040 Speaker 2: Oh well yeah, of course, right, yeah. I mean that's 702 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:27,839 Speaker 2: the most annoying part too. Like somebody was saying yesterday, like, well, 703 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:29,759 Speaker 2: they're worshiping a demon, and it's like, well, maybe they 704 00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,520 Speaker 2: are in their minds worshiping a demon, I don't fucking know, 705 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:36,319 Speaker 2: but like do believe in scientologies. God know, if they're 706 00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:38,800 Speaker 2: worshiping something who gives a shit, like just make themselves 707 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:40,040 Speaker 2: sex trafficking. 708 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,279 Speaker 3: And also historically speaking, And I won't shut up about 709 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,880 Speaker 3: this to everyone these past couple of weeks. Whenever there's 710 00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 3: like accusations of baby eating and satanic worship, they're usually 711 00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 3: not rooted in reality and there's usually something very like 712 00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:55,839 Speaker 3: real happening instead of that. And I think one thing 713 00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,440 Speaker 3: you talked about in the Flat Earth one Sorry I 714 00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,480 Speaker 3: can't remember the titles of your I'm so sorry in 715 00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:11,479 Speaker 3: Search of a Flat Earth. Oh, if only everybody could 716 00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:14,480 Speaker 3: see one thing you talked about that if we can 717 00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:19,600 Speaker 3: quickly get it in here is unfalsifiability. What I am 718 00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:22,000 Speaker 3: observing with the Epstein files, and you can tell me 719 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:23,799 Speaker 3: what you think of this, is that because there are 720 00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:27,440 Speaker 3: so many reactions and because it's been such a partial release, 721 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:33,319 Speaker 3: it contributes to this rampant speculation. And like Charlie Day 722 00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:37,200 Speaker 3: brain map stuff of unfalsifiability of you can kind of 723 00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:40,880 Speaker 3: read whatever into it that you're looking for. And again, 724 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:44,359 Speaker 3: there were enough crimes. Those were those crimes were are 725 00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:47,279 Speaker 3: worth prosecuting, and those victims are real anyway, Do you 726 00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:48,680 Speaker 3: have any thoughts on that? 727 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's just you already said it that. 728 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:56,399 Speaker 1: It's like the reactions were so clearly aggressive and overreaching 729 00:42:56,440 --> 00:43:03,840 Speaker 1: and widespread that you could speculate intentionally made things just 730 00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:07,120 Speaker 1: a giant pit into which anyone could read any narrative 731 00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:11,359 Speaker 1: they wanted, which lets certain groups that already have their 732 00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:14,360 Speaker 1: narratives take their pre existing ones and just like, ah, 733 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,560 Speaker 1: here is proof that they were summoning an aggregor. 734 00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:18,760 Speaker 3: Yeah. 735 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,200 Speaker 2: And I don't believe that the world is flat, and 736 00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:22,800 Speaker 2: I don't believe that there's a demon. 737 00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,520 Speaker 3: I think, just like in general, I would encourage folks 738 00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:31,040 Speaker 3: to pause on jumping to conclusions before there is evidence 739 00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:34,120 Speaker 3: there and try to center actual victims who are standing 740 00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:37,400 Speaker 3: before us broadly speak. Yeah, yeah, all right, Dan, Do 741 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:41,480 Speaker 3: you have any final thoughts for us on crypto? Should 742 00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,560 Speaker 3: we mcs cults? What you got for us? 743 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:46,840 Speaker 1: Well, So this is a perfect time for me to 744 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:52,320 Speaker 1: announce the launch of my new line. No just reality 745 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:58,240 Speaker 1: is self justifying and it is worth seeking the truth 746 00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:05,200 Speaker 1: for its own. Saal pseudo Archaeology tea leaf reading mysticism. 747 00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:09,640 Speaker 1: It's fake. There's nothing there and it is nothing but 748 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:13,040 Speaker 1: a window that lets other people into your soul to 749 00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:13,600 Speaker 1: exploit you. 750 00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:17,440 Speaker 3: I will say everybody should go watch your videos. 751 00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:19,640 Speaker 2: I feel like I'm in I'm on like DMT you 752 00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,040 Speaker 2: while I'm watching it, because you're so smart that you 753 00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:25,480 Speaker 2: somehow make things make sense to me that shouldn't. So 754 00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:28,400 Speaker 2: I'm just like and a completely altered sense of reality, 755 00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,359 Speaker 2: like whoa, I completely get it, and then I turn 756 00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,080 Speaker 2: you off and I don't get it anymore. But yeah, 757 00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,520 Speaker 2: you're really good at what you do. So how how 758 00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:37,279 Speaker 2: can people find you? 759 00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:42,400 Speaker 1: So we're on YouTube Folding Ideas, and I can be 760 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,560 Speaker 1: found on blue Sky at foldable Human. That's the That's 761 00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,279 Speaker 1: the handle that I can be found under on most 762 00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:50,880 Speaker 1: social media, but blue Sky's where I post my gripes 763 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:52,240 Speaker 1: about video games these days. 764 00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:56,080 Speaker 3: Perfect amazing and do a video on industry because it's 765 00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:57,600 Speaker 3: so good and I think you'll like it. 766 00:44:57,640 --> 00:44:58,080 Speaker 1: Awesome. 767 00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:01,879 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for joining us, for having me. 768 00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:07,319 Speaker 3: That concludes part two with Dan Olsen. Wow, and we 769 00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:11,360 Speaker 3: already talked about whether you would join the Cult of Crypto. Sure, Dad, 770 00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,279 Speaker 3: So I guess that just leaves us with only one 771 00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,799 Speaker 3: thing left, yep, which is what would we call our 772 00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:22,000 Speaker 3: cryptocurrency and when are we starting? When are we starting? 773 00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:27,120 Speaker 2: I think we should call our cryptocurrency trust no, like 774 00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:32,920 Speaker 2: cultsl coin, cold coin, cult coin, does that exist? 775 00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:36,040 Speaker 3: I wonder? Yeah, we should call it cl coin. No 776 00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:38,480 Speaker 3: cult coin though, No, it is. 777 00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:42,200 Speaker 2: Cl coin, and we don't say that we're running it. 778 00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,160 Speaker 2: We pretend that someone else. Sure, and we like put 779 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:50,120 Speaker 2: really heavy like demands. We love bomb our members. Then 780 00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:53,040 Speaker 2: we're mean to them, so they're super addictive. Of course 781 00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:53,840 Speaker 2: you got to do that. 782 00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:57,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, all of our imagery. Do they have imagery? Does 783 00:45:57,200 --> 00:45:58,120 Speaker 3: crypto have imagery? 784 00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:01,239 Speaker 2: Well? I like the NFT kind of thing. Yeah, we'd 785 00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:03,120 Speaker 2: have NFTs. It's like super religious. 786 00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:05,600 Speaker 3: Look, it's like us, but like with Halo's Yeah, but 787 00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:14,480 Speaker 3: sexy sexy Halo's yeah yeah yeah, like in bikinis, but 788 00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,839 Speaker 3: with halos and wings. Yes, like a Victoria's Secret ad. Yes, 789 00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:22,320 Speaker 3: who's signing up? Come and buy our crypto. 790 00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:28,279 Speaker 2: We have no idea how to start it, how to 791 00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,960 Speaker 2: end it, or how to do it. If we wanted 792 00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:33,600 Speaker 2: to start our crypto, we would end up being scammed 793 00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:37,920 Speaker 2: by so literally everyone, So everybody, just yeah, relax on 794 00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:42,600 Speaker 2: the crypto, lots lots to be gleaned from from Dan. 795 00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:46,360 Speaker 2: I'm so appreciative that he came on and explained same. 796 00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,480 Speaker 3: God, I feel like I know more, but I also 797 00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:52,479 Speaker 3: think I'm going to forget everything I learned just wait. 798 00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:54,839 Speaker 2: He's one of those people who makes you feel like, oh, 799 00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:57,600 Speaker 2: I know more now that I now know how. 800 00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:00,759 Speaker 3: Little I know? Totally? Yeah, I guess we have to 801 00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:04,840 Speaker 3: keep watching the Folding Ideas YouTube channel to keep learning 802 00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:09,319 Speaker 3: as if I could stop. All right, well, give us 803 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:10,040 Speaker 3: five stars. 804 00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:14,080 Speaker 2: If you are so inclined, buy some March at exactly 805 00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:15,680 Speaker 2: Right Murdore. 806 00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:18,520 Speaker 3: At exactly Right store. 807 00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:22,240 Speaker 2: Dot com dot com, and as always, remember to follow 808 00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:24,920 Speaker 2: your gut, watch out for red flags. 809 00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:31,759 Speaker 3: And never ever trust me. Bye. This has been an 810 00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:34,839 Speaker 3: Exactly Right production hosted by me Lola Blanc. 811 00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:38,040 Speaker 2: And Me Megan Elizabeth. Our senior producer is g Holly. 812 00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:40,160 Speaker 3: This episode was mixed by John Bradley. 813 00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:43,600 Speaker 2: Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain, and our guest booker 814 00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:44,760 Speaker 2: is Patrick Kottner. 815 00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:48,000 Speaker 3: Our theme song was composed by Holly amber Church Trust 816 00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:48,319 Speaker 3: me As. 817 00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:52,800 Speaker 2: Executive produced by Karen Kilgareth, Georgia Hartstark and Danielle Kramer. 818 00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,320 Speaker 3: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me Podcast 819 00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:57,600 Speaker 3: or on TikTok at trust Me Cult Podcast. 820 00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:01,000 Speaker 2: Got your own story about cults, extreme belie our manipulation, 821 00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,360 Speaker 2: Shoot us an email at trustmepodat gmail dot com. 822 00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,360 Speaker 3: Listen to trust Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 823 00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:09,040 Speaker 3: or wherever you get your podcasts.