Speaker 1: Kamala Harris is the anointed one. She is heading towards
Speaker 1: the Democrat National Convention basically as the presumptive nominee. She
Speaker 1: most recently received the endorsement of the Obamas. She's never
Speaker 1: received a single primary or Coccus vote, Yet this is
Speaker 1: the party that proclaims it cares about democracy. She says
Speaker 1: she's running a people powered campaign, but she's never received
Speaker 1: a presidential primary or Cocca's vote. Make it make sense?
Speaker 1: So who is this woman? Who is Kamala Harris? What
Speaker 1: do you need to know about her? We're going to
Speaker 1: talk to someone who literally wrote the book on her.
Speaker 1: His name's Charlie Spearing. He wrote the book Amateur Hour
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris in the White House. So we're going to
Speaker 1: do a little deep dive in the Kamala Harris. Stay
Speaker 1: tuned for that with Charlie Spearing. Well, Charlie, it's great
Speaker 1: to have you on this show. I imagine you've got
Speaker 1: a lot of thoughts right now, since he wrote the
Speaker 1: book about Kamala Harris. I guess, at first glance, you know,
Speaker 1: it looks like she's obviously going to be the Democrat nominee.
Speaker 1: The Obamas haven't out on doorst she pretty much has
Speaker 1: the green light. I guess what would a Kamala Harris
Speaker 1: presidency look like, do you think.
Speaker 2: Thanks Lisa, Yeah, certainly that's what everybody's looking at her.
Speaker 2: You know, her record as vice president was so unimpressive.
Speaker 2: There's really only one sort of priority that stood out,
Speaker 2: which was her effort to campaign on abortion rights. I
Speaker 2: really feel that if Kamala Harris did achieved the presidency,
Speaker 2: I think the issue of abortion would be number one
Speaker 2: on her priority list, as she would use that issue
Speaker 2: to be Republicans politically. I think that's one of the
Speaker 2: biggest strengths the Biden administration had, and it certainly one
Speaker 2: that she was she was leading the way. So I
Speaker 2: think she's and that's sort of already featured in her
Speaker 2: campaign material, this idea that abortion rights are freedom and
Speaker 2: we stand for freedom and abortion, and that's going to
Speaker 2: be a focal point of who she is as a
Speaker 2: as a candidate and certainly and she becomes president.
Speaker 1: You called her book Amateur Hour. Why did you choose
Speaker 1: that title?
Speaker 2: Well, that's just based on conversations I was having with Republicans.
Speaker 2: It was clear that with Democrats, even certainly with Republicans
Speaker 2: but also Democrats that Colin Hardison wasn't necessarily prepared to
Speaker 2: be on the national stage. She had only had a
Speaker 2: couple of years in the Senate before she was sort
Speaker 2: of plucked out of the in a failed presidential campaign.
Speaker 2: Before she was sort of plucked out of the sort
Speaker 2: of the dolt from you know, the Biden administration has
Speaker 2: really sort of resurrected her political career after her failed
Speaker 2: presidential campaign. I think she would have been left behind,
Speaker 2: as you know, an ordinary California senator, munched in the
Speaker 2: lines of a Barbara Boxer or a Dianne Feinstein. She
Speaker 2: clearly didn't have enough capital to run her own campaign
Speaker 2: for president when she became vice president. A big part
Speaker 2: of the reason that Biden ran for reelection is that
Speaker 2: Harris was not ready to run and didn't and Democrats
Speaker 2: didn't think she could run and win against against Donald Trump.
Speaker 2: So that's the certain that was certainly the mood in
Speaker 2: the early part of the Biden administration, and that just
Speaker 2: makes it even more surprising that now today they're putting
Speaker 2: all their hopes on a on a person that they
Speaker 2: privately derided behind the scenes early in her career.
Speaker 1: You know, she grew up at Oakland, California. What do
Speaker 1: you know about her upbringing, about her childhood.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she grew up as the you know, daughter of
Speaker 2: an of the academic and you know, cancer researcher. Her
Speaker 2: parents separated when she was young, and she sort of
Speaker 2: grew continued to grow up under her mother's watch. Mostly
Speaker 2: she was at work, and so there was a sort
Speaker 2: of a community of women that surrounded her and built
Speaker 2: her up as she was as she was raised as
Speaker 2: a child. But she's so wasn't raised poor, and she
Speaker 2: certainly wasn't raised in a you know, a segregated community,
Speaker 2: and she didn't have to suffer any of the effects
Speaker 2: of you know, her race, which is what you know
Speaker 2: a lot of other black people and black candidates would
Speaker 2: talk about if they grew up in the South or
Speaker 2: they grew up poor in urban communities.
Speaker 1: And what do we know about her parents. I know,
Speaker 1: her dad, you know, was a Marxist, uh you know economists.
Speaker 1: But you know, give us a little insight into kind
Speaker 1: of you know, her parents and sort of how she
Speaker 1: was raised, like what ideologies were taught in her household
Speaker 1: and kind of was her to impact that her parents
Speaker 1: have on her what which you tell us about them?
Speaker 2: Right, Kamala Harris lates to talk about her parents regularly
Speaker 2: attending protests. You know, she talks about her parents growing
Speaker 2: up in marching and shouting for justice and how they
Speaker 2: pushed little Kammel and the stroller. But upon closer examination,
Speaker 2: a lot of their activism was into sellectual activism and
Speaker 2: at at the university where they were, Stanford, and certainly
Speaker 2: they held a lot of talking groups and at the
Speaker 2: Kamala's parents actually met at a seminar that her father
Speaker 2: was giving at the time, and certainly that's how they
Speaker 2: how they met, and so there was really more of
Speaker 2: an academic sort of discussion, and there was very limited
Speaker 2: They had very limited activism simply because they were both
Speaker 2: you know, not they were certainly there legally as students,
Speaker 2: but they were not citizens at the time, so it
Speaker 2: was very difficult for them to you know, they very
Speaker 2: careful about their actual activism, you know.
Speaker 1: And what kind of was she raised with religion or
Speaker 1: you know, what what did that look like in their household? Well,
Speaker 1: it was very split, right because yes, she did have
Speaker 1: a black father, but her black father ended up leaving
Speaker 1: and she was raised by her Indian mother who was
Speaker 1: so her Indian mother talks about raising her as you know,
Speaker 1: and taking her to the Hindu to simple and participating
Speaker 1: in all the Hindu rituals. But Kama likes to talk
Speaker 1: about this woman called that she calls her second mother,
Speaker 1: and that's a woman in the in the area of
Speaker 1: the household who watches over the daughters, you know, Kamala
Speaker 1: and her sister, and takes her to a Baptist church,
Speaker 1: a Christian church, Black Christian church in San Francisco. So
Speaker 1: she has this sort of dual faith upbringing. But we
Speaker 1: don't really hear Kamala talk about her Hindu upbringing anymore.
Speaker 1: She focuses more on this sort of adopted you know,
Speaker 1: the attendance at a Black church. And then tell us
Speaker 1: a little bit about you know, how did she well,
Speaker 1: First of all, you know, tell us a little bit
Speaker 1: about her you know, college age, you know, college years,
Speaker 1: and then you know her entry into politics.
Speaker 2: Right, So her college year she went to Howard University,
Speaker 2: and you know, she spent a lot of time, you know,
Speaker 2: enjoying college for all of its all the things that
Speaker 2: it offers. She attended a few protests, but she wasn't
Speaker 2: seen as, you know, a radical activist. She was very practical.
Speaker 2: She wanted to go to Howard University, get a law degree,
Speaker 2: and go back to San Francisco and get a good job.
Speaker 2: And she ultimately went back and became a prosecutor, working
Speaker 2: for the Almeda County Attorney you know, district Attorney's office
Speaker 2: as a lawyer. And that's when she first met Willie Brown,
Speaker 2: one of the most powerful politicians in California, who was
Speaker 2: then running for mayor of San Francisco.
Speaker 1: And then tell us about their relationship. How did he
Speaker 1: help her get into politics?
Speaker 2: Right, So, Willie Brown is sixty years old, he's running
Speaker 2: for mayor of San Francisco, and Harris is relatively unknown,
Speaker 2: twenty nine years old. She is the, like I said,
Speaker 2: working in the Almita County's District Attorney's office. And that's
Speaker 2: where they sort of kick off this relationship. Willy Brown
Speaker 2: starts dating her, and she's seen as a stabilizing force
Speaker 2: on his personality as he's running for office. Gossip colonists right,
Speaker 2: for the first time, Willi Brown is having a relationship
Speaker 2: with an adult woman because he's sort of a known
Speaker 2: philanderer with young women on his arm, different women on
Speaker 2: his arm because he's long estranged from his real wife, Blanche,
Speaker 2: who lives separately from Brown, but the couple never divorced.
Speaker 2: So Willie Brown really helped get Kamala Harris on this stage.
Speaker 2: First of all, through the social connections on Willy Brown's arms.
Speaker 2: She meets all of his wealthy donors, all of the celebrities.
Speaker 2: There's a fun gossip column bit about Clinton Eastwood spilling
Speaker 2: champagne on the mayor's new steady is what they could
Speaker 2: describe her as. So she's definitely rubbing shoulders with all
Speaker 2: the top celebrities, the donors, and certainly the democratic officials
Speaker 2: of the very powerful San Francisco Democratic community. And on
Speaker 2: top of that, Willie Brown also appointed her to some
Speaker 2: state board positions that paid her a great deal of money.
Speaker 2: She made over four hundred thousand dollars just after a
Speaker 2: couple of years serving in these board positions that only
Speaker 2: met like once or twice a month. Put that in
Speaker 2: today's dollars, that's nearly a million dollars. So it was
Speaker 2: very lucrative for Harris, put her on a very stable
Speaker 2: footing for her to pursue her next goal. She also,
Speaker 2: you know, Brown also gave her the keys to a BMW,
Speaker 2: so she he made sure that she was well taken
Speaker 2: care of and perfectly positioned for a political future. So
Speaker 2: it's partly a lucrative relationship. Then to say the leadast.
Speaker 1: She got her start in two and three she was
Speaker 1: elected to DA of San Francisco. You know, what can
Speaker 1: you tell us about sort of her record there as DA?
Speaker 2: Yeah, her record is DA. She ran sort of there
Speaker 2: was already sort of a progressive, a progressive district attorney
Speaker 2: Terrence hollanand who San Francisco voters were growing tired because
Speaker 2: there was a rise of prostitution, of drugs, and of homelessness,
Speaker 2: you know, much of the issues we see today. Harris
Speaker 2: ran almost to the right on that, you know, arguing,
Speaker 2: we don't need to be tough on crime or week
Speaker 2: on crime, we need to be quote smart on crime.
Speaker 2: That was Harris's campaign slogan. So she ran a little
Speaker 2: bit to the right, to the center of Terrence halling On. So,
Speaker 2: but when she took office, she was mostly a relatively
Speaker 2: you know, a different face, but pursued many of the
Speaker 2: same progressive priorities that the previous candidate. Had. She famously
Speaker 2: kicked off her campaign by refusing to seek the death
Speaker 2: penalty for a cop killer that angered the police force
Speaker 2: in San Francisco, you know, who made a big deal
Speaker 2: about that and would turn their backs on her anytime
Speaker 2: they saw her. Even Dianne Feinstein at the time, who
Speaker 2: attended the funeral of the police officer, publicly called out
Speaker 2: Harris for failing to pursue the death penalty. And it
Speaker 2: was it was a slight that Harris never forgot, you know.
Speaker 1: And if she also let a man out on probation
Speaker 1: who went on to kill two people as well, So
Speaker 1: did she kind of carry that same you know, left
Speaker 1: wing philosophy into her time as Attorney general as well?
Speaker 2: Well. She ultimately moved a little further to the right
Speaker 2: after beating sort of the last significant Republican for attorney
Speaker 2: general just by a hair, you know, very small margin,
Speaker 2: and this is Steve Cooley of Los Angeles, was a
Speaker 2: Republican who ran for the attorney general position. Harris just
Speaker 2: barely beat him. So she shifted a little bit further
Speaker 2: to the right as she grew, as she grew further
Speaker 2: up into California politics. You know, there was the famous
Speaker 2: Supreme Court decision against California that demanded they start releasing
Speaker 2: their overpopulated prisons. Klin Harris, as Attorney General, worked with
Speaker 2: Governor Jerry Brown at the time to sort of slow
Speaker 2: down and stop these and find excuses to keep these
Speaker 2: people in prison, because, as we all know, you know,
Speaker 2: it's bad, bad luck for any sort of politician with
Speaker 2: future political ambitions to release criminals, because one of these
Speaker 2: criminals could significantly commit another crime and that would damage
Speaker 2: your political career.
Speaker 1: Got a quick commercial break, stay with us. You know,
Speaker 1: it's interesting because then when she was the United States senator,
Speaker 1: you know, Govtract named her as the most liberal senator,
Speaker 1: even further to the left than you know, Bernie Sanders.
Speaker 1: And you know, since then, we've seen her say that,
Speaker 1: you know, she wants to take her to private insurance,
Speaker 1: that she believes in Medicare for all. She's compared you know,
Speaker 1: I used to KKK and all these really radical left
Speaker 1: wing policies. So it's like, I guess with her, she
Speaker 1: sort of strikes me as the kind of person that
Speaker 1: just says whatever people want to hear. It doesn't really
Speaker 1: believe in anything. I guess, what's your sense? And obviously,
Speaker 1: you know, researching her and learning of her like, does
Speaker 1: anything motive error or is it just power?
Speaker 2: Yes, that's a very astute observation because Kamala Harris famously,
Speaker 2: you know, opposed legal marijuana when she was running for
Speaker 2: attorney general and then after she won her re election
Speaker 2: race and won a Senate seat, she changed her position
Speaker 2: on it. And then there's examples of that all throughout
Speaker 2: her career where she changes her position on the issues.
Speaker 2: It's as soon as it becomes politically liable. But after
Speaker 2: she became the Senator of California, she was she moved
Speaker 2: significantly farther to the left. Even before she launched her
Speaker 2: campaign for president, her assessment appeared to be if I,
Speaker 2: if I am on the same page of Willie's of
Speaker 2: Bernie Sanders, then perhaps I can earn the respect and
Speaker 2: love from his followers if I just get as far
Speaker 2: to the left as I can, and I'll be a
Speaker 2: candidate that doesn't have the sort of the downsides of
Speaker 2: the Bernie Sanders, you know, a cranky old man from Vermont.
Speaker 2: I'll be the sparkling, inspirational figures who becauses on policies.
Speaker 2: The Democratic primary voters love so she already worked on
Speaker 2: building that reputation, and then certainly when she launched her
Speaker 2: campaign for president, there was no position to liberal that
Speaker 2: wasn't up for discussion or that she took a side on.
Speaker 1: But so it's kind of scary then if she would
Speaker 1: assume the office of the presidency, because if you have
Speaker 1: someone who doesn't really believe in any thing, is not
Speaker 1: really rooted in anything, what that mean for how she
Speaker 1: decides to to govern. You know, she sort of just
Speaker 1: strikes me as kind of like a you know, soul
Speaker 1: well willing to you know. I mean, we saw her
Speaker 1: with the presidential debate for twenty twenty, which you know,
Speaker 1: she obviously flamed out and dropped out before Iowa, where
Speaker 1: you know, she accused Joe Biden essentially of racism and
Speaker 1: then immediately signed up to be his vice president.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I've disrectly seen as a very cynical politics.
Speaker 2: She was playing very cynical politics, and she wasn't sort
Speaker 2: of you could tell, voters could tell that she wasn't
Speaker 2: necessarily wed to the issues because she was all over
Speaker 2: the map. One day, She's supported getting rid of private insurance,
Speaker 2: the next day she said it was a mistake and
Speaker 2: didn't understand the question. And when voters would ask her
Speaker 2: these questions, she was kind of all over the map
Speaker 2: because she initially thought she had the right answer, but
Speaker 2: would often bracktrack and clarify.
Speaker 1: You know, do people like her? I mean she has had,
Speaker 1: you know, a ton of turnover. There's been so much
Speaker 1: written about the turnover in her office as vice president
Speaker 1: of just losing a lot of staff throughout her time there.
Speaker 1: So I mean, do people like her? You know, sort
Speaker 1: of what's the gauge on her as just a person?
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like typically staff turnover is telling
Speaker 1: about the kind of person someone is.
Speaker 2: Right, And when I did the research for the book,
Speaker 2: Harris was not a beloved figure in fact, behind the scenes,
Speaker 2: and Washington Democrats and Republicans alike would would quite you know,
Speaker 2: privately mark her behind the scenes. It was very hard
Speaker 2: to find any bands of Kamala Harris back when I
Speaker 2: first started researching this book, and I was surprised that
Speaker 2: there wasn't this solidified group of Kamala defenders. And that's
Speaker 2: kind of the way it isn't Washington, right when you're
Speaker 2: found wanting and she had already piled up a number
Speaker 2: of gaffes and mistakes, people can turn on you pretty quickly,
Speaker 2: and if you're an abusive, difficult boss, right staffers in
Speaker 2: Washington can usually put up with that if they believe
Speaker 2: they're on the fast track to power. But if she's
Speaker 2: seen as not having a political future, that's when, you know,
Speaker 2: the most the most clever positioning staffers will ship gears
Speaker 2: and look elsewhere. And that's kind of where Kamala Harris
Speaker 2: was until we now find ourselves in this moment where
Speaker 2: all of a sudden she's now the darling of the
Speaker 2: Democratic left. And certainly earlier, just just a few weeks ago, oh,
Speaker 2: a lot of these same people that are out there
Speaker 2: praising her now were privately sharing their concerns about her
Speaker 2: possible campaign, whether or not she could compete with Donald Trump.
Speaker 1: Out of the gate, there was a reluctance from Barack
Speaker 1: Obama to endorse Kamala Harras now he has come around.
Speaker 2: But what do you think that reluctance? What was behind that?
Speaker 2: Do you think? I think a lot of people were
Speaker 2: very surprised to see that Obama wasn't out first out
Speaker 2: of the gate to endorse Kamala Harris, because he has
Speaker 2: been a longtime supporter of her throughout her political career.
Speaker 2: I think that primarily the reason why he didn't endorse
Speaker 2: her publicly right away is because he didn't want to
Speaker 2: be seen as someone who was sort of pushing Biden
Speaker 2: out and lifting Kamala up. There was already so many
Speaker 2: stories about how he was secretly working to get rid
Speaker 2: of Biden. He didn't want the same stories to be
Speaker 2: written about him secretly putting Kamala into place. But don't
Speaker 2: be fooled by that. I think that Obama is a
Speaker 2: a huge Kamala proponent. He was obviously a big supporter
Speaker 2: of hers when Biden was searching for a vice president,
Speaker 2: And I think that Harris has long had the Obama
Speaker 2: support and never never worried about not getting it. I
Speaker 2: think that Obama kind of wanted to make it look
Speaker 2: as if she was winning on her own steam. But
Speaker 2: it was clear that there was already a lot of
Speaker 2: background work done before the decision by Biden was made.
Speaker 2: You know, what do you think?
Speaker 1: There was also reports that part of Joe Biden's reluctant
Speaker 1: to step aside as a candidate apparently, you know, he's
Speaker 1: fine to be president of the United States commander in
Speaker 1: chief but is not equipped to be a candidate, which
Speaker 1: is a really interesting spin we're being told right now.
Speaker 1: But you know, part of the reporting at least was
Speaker 1: that he didn't feel like Kamala Harris had what it
Speaker 1: takes to win the presidency, to win the election. What
Speaker 1: has their relationship been like between the two of them.
Speaker 2: Well, Joe Biden wanted to buddy. He really thought that
Speaker 2: he could picked Comlin, that she would be fully supportive
Speaker 2: of him, and that he would have a friendly, buddy
Speaker 2: like relationship like he felt that he had with Barack Obama.
Speaker 2: But it turned out Kamala Harris was not there to
Speaker 2: be buddies with Joe. She was definitely not friends with Jill.
Speaker 2: So she became very kind of standoffs. She was sparcely
Speaker 2: protective of her own political brand. Biden's staffers almost threw
Speaker 2: up their hands when they were trying to deal with
Speaker 2: her because she was so so defensive and so careful
Speaker 2: about protecting her political future rather than just volunteering and
Speaker 2: taking one for the team. By their several instances of
Speaker 2: Biden and his staff asking her to take the lead
Speaker 2: on certain issues and she would decline, they would ask
Speaker 2: her to go on the Sunday shows to cover something,
Speaker 2: and she would decline. So they ended up throwing up
Speaker 2: their hands and kind of letting her do her own
Speaker 2: thing because it became very clear she was not there.
Speaker 2: Her number one goal was not there to support Biden.
Speaker 2: It was to sort of protect her own brand during
Speaker 2: this entire project.
Speaker 1: And there's also been reports that, you know, she doesn't
Speaker 1: really dig in on the research and dig in on
Speaker 1: the issues. Can you tell us, can you give us
Speaker 1: any sort of insight into that? Right?
Speaker 2: Staffers would talk about how you know, they you know,
Speaker 2: for instance, when she did that interview with Lester Holt
Speaker 2: after visiting Guatemala as part of her Borders Are Duties,
Speaker 2: you know, the famous question when are you going to
Speaker 2: the border, and she laughs off the question and jokes
Speaker 2: that she hasn't been to Europe, and that was widely
Speaker 2: seen as a mistake. You know, her staff had prepared
Speaker 2: her for that answer, they had given her briefings on
Speaker 2: that answer, and yet she, you know, ended up skipping
Speaker 2: over her prepared answer and delivering something else entirely. And
Speaker 2: that's just one example of how they, you know, staffers
Speaker 2: wouldn't get frustrated with Harris because they would prepare her,
Speaker 2: but she never took the issues seriously. I guess, what
Speaker 2: do you see from her now?
Speaker 1: I mean, it does seem like, you know, and watching
Speaker 1: the few sort of you know, public speeches and things
Speaker 1: she has done since you know all you know, basically
Speaker 1: the coronation. She's not officially the Democrat nominee, but you know,
Speaker 1: she's essentially the presumptive nominee at this point. Got a
Speaker 1: quick commercial break, stay with us. Does it look like she's,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of paying attention to the NAXI. I mean,
Speaker 1: it seems like a little bit more serious. You know,
Speaker 1: she's not doing some of the weird laughter stuff. I guess,
Speaker 1: what have you seen from her so far as a
Speaker 1: presidential candidate and what you've read and what you know
Speaker 1: about her, any anything, any insight on that.
Speaker 2: In the past couple of months, Lisa, she's been very
Speaker 2: disciplined and very focused. I think bad Kamala Harris was
Speaker 2: already sort of preparing for this moment. Her campaign events
Speaker 2: were very scripted, and she was very disciplined, and I
Speaker 2: think I think a Kamala heiress as a candidate has
Speaker 2: learned a lot of lessons from twenty twenty, that you know,
Speaker 2: not necessarily that you can't necessarily just thrive on your own,
Speaker 2: you know, terrorism, because it's not quite there. You're not
Speaker 2: you know, you're not seen as the next Obama. You
Speaker 2: have to be the the Kamala Aires. You have to
Speaker 2: define yourself and you have to stay on message and
Speaker 2: you can't get distracted. So I think that she has
Speaker 2: sort of demonstrated a little bit more discipline than her
Speaker 2: previous attempts at campaigning. And we'll have to see whether
Speaker 2: she runs a kind of a very defensive, basement scripted
Speaker 2: campaign or whether there's moments where she can actually emphasize
Speaker 2: her true personality.
Speaker 1: What do you think are her biggest vulnerabilities from studying
Speaker 1: her background and just studying her as a person with
Speaker 1: this book, and what are our biggest vulnerabilities biggest liabilities
Speaker 1: as a candidate.
Speaker 2: Well, she's sort of defensive and she she's not a
Speaker 2: risk taker, So that's and she lacks sort of the
Speaker 2: authenticity and kerorism that it takes to be a presidential candidate.
Speaker 2: You have to win the hearts of the American people.
Speaker 2: Harris had a chance to do that when she ran
Speaker 2: for president in twenty twenty and she failed miserably. Iowa voters,
Speaker 2: even voters in South Carolina and even in the Southern states,
Speaker 2: did not find her to be an approachable, warm candidate,
Speaker 2: but just another power hungry senator trying to be the
Speaker 2: next Barack Obama, where there were several that ran that
Speaker 2: year that voters ultimately rejected. And so I think that's
Speaker 2: her biggest challenge right now. Can you actually go out there,
Speaker 2: get on the stump, meet with voters, win over their
Speaker 2: hearts or is it just going to be a scripted
Speaker 2: campaign based on a couple of speeches at least interesting
Speaker 2: to see how quickly that they can overcome that gap.
Speaker 1: Is she intelligent?
Speaker 2: You know, I think when she does the homework and
Speaker 2: that she does have a kind of understanding of the issues. However,
Speaker 2: she is not very good at speaking in a way
Speaker 2: that is authentic and lets people believe she's very If
Speaker 2: you find she's in public, she's very guarded and isn't
Speaker 2: very knowledge You can't really speak knowledgeably about the issues.
Speaker 2: She can do a good job about, you know, raising
Speaker 2: the fears of the problems that are facing Americans, but
Speaker 2: as far as speaking in a way that that have
Speaker 2: resonates with the public is very difficult. She strikes me
Speaker 2: as very insecure.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if that's because of how she
Speaker 1: got her start or what, but she strikes me as
Speaker 1: a very insecure person. As you mentioned, like guarded, not
Speaker 1: very confident in herself, not very confident in her ability.
Speaker 1: It's not comfortable in her own skin.
Speaker 2: I think that's right. She demonstrated that multiple times during
Speaker 2: her twenty twenty campaign, and because you know, our campaign
Speaker 2: ended so miserably, she's been even more guarded. She did
Speaker 2: an interview a couple months ago with Lebron James's manager
Speaker 2: and she said, you know this, running a campaign is
Speaker 2: like a food is like running through a food fight,
Speaker 2: and you have to be perfect, you know, And that
Speaker 2: sort of gave a window into how she views this
Speaker 2: as like, I have to be perfect. I can't make
Speaker 2: one slip or I will be punished. And when you
Speaker 2: have that in mind, when you're not loose and comfortable
Speaker 2: with the idea of running in the public eye, then
Speaker 2: you're going to automatically have a sort of guarded, defensive personality.
Speaker 1: You know, We've covered a lot of ground, but I'm
Speaker 1: sure have missed things. Is there anything that you'd like
Speaker 1: the audience to know that you know we haven't covered yet,
Speaker 1: that you think is important or notable for people at
Speaker 1: home to know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that most people will just automatically dismiss Harris,
Speaker 2: as you know, because they know the Kamala Harris of
Speaker 2: the word salads, of someone who was not taking the
Speaker 2: job seriously. But I certainly view her as a formidable
Speaker 2: candidate because when you know she she has a record
Speaker 2: of not doing very well in the job when she
Speaker 2: gets the job, but when she wants a job, she
Speaker 2: will rise to the occasion and and people will underestimate her.
Speaker 2: I think that she is fully prepared to run a
Speaker 2: good race, has the ambition to run a good race,
Speaker 2: and that you know, if there it actually is a
Speaker 2: debate between Harris and Trump, I think that Harris will
Speaker 2: take it seriously and will be a formidable opponent in
Speaker 2: any presidential debate. Certainly, she has to answer for her
Speaker 2: very liberal record, and if Trump is wise, he'll he'll
Speaker 2: focus on that, and I think that any kind of
Speaker 2: competition between the two will be a significant race. I
Speaker 2: don't think it's a I don't think it's a foregone
Speaker 2: conclusion that that she'll just spiral into words soualads and
Speaker 2: collapse completely if she makes a debate stage.
Speaker 1: You know what, well, she almost strikes me as ambitious,
Speaker 1: to be perfectly honest, like the kind where you know,
Speaker 1: the Tanya hrting you to get ahead, you know, before
Speaker 1: we go, you know, kind of what are some of
Speaker 1: the big takeaways in terms of her you know, career
Speaker 1: where you know, I mean, she does have sort of
Speaker 1: a laundry list of very leftist policies. What stands out
Speaker 1: to you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, certainly with her policies, you know, her impositions she's taken. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: And and Republicans have been reciting these off just in
Speaker 2: the last couple of days, so so rapidly. But you know,
Speaker 2: it's clear that she has no intention of securing the
Speaker 2: border or doing anything to expel all of the migrants
Speaker 2: says she left that she let come across the border,
Speaker 2: her and Biden. It's clear she has no interest in
Speaker 2: the issue of immigration, immigration enforcement. She wants to, she
Speaker 2: certainly wants to, you know, move towards u government supported healthcare,
Speaker 2: government funded daycare, government funded government assistance for every aspect
Speaker 2: of a person's life. She certainly is supports the government
Speaker 2: federal federally, you know, making it codifying Roe v. Wade
Speaker 2: into law, and making zero restrictions on abortion, and certainly
Speaker 2: even suddenly some of the more fun policies that they
Speaker 2: talked about during the campaign, like would you consider changing
Speaker 2: you know, the government restrictions on red meat consumption? She
Speaker 2: was she was, you know, vocally in supportive that and
Speaker 2: so many other things like banning fracking and in you know,
Speaker 2: getting rid of private health insurance. These are major issues
Speaker 2: that she was on the record supporting and it will
Speaker 2: be difficult to walk that back.
Speaker 1: And I think she said she wanted to get rid
Speaker 1: of plastic straws.
Speaker 2: I don't know. Yeah, I'm going to forget get rid
Speaker 2: of the plastic straws.
Speaker 1: Well, it will be an interesting election, but you know,
Speaker 1: we appreciate you bringing your insight on your book, Amateur Hour.
Speaker 1: Charlie Sparing, thank you so much. We appreciate your time.
Speaker 2: You bet, Lisa, thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1: Those Charlie Spearing, author of Amateur Hour, Kamala Harris and
Speaker 1: the White House appreciate him taking the time to come
Speaker 1: on the show. Appreciate you guys at home for listening
Speaker 1: every Monday and Thursday, but you can listen throughout the week.
Speaker 1: I do think John, Cassie, and my producer were putting
Speaker 1: the show together until next time.