WEBVTT - Tesla Abandons Mercedes to Take on Ford 0:00:01.360 --> 0:00:05.680 This is Bloomberg Business Wait inside from the reporters and 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:09.479 editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:13.680 global business, finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:19.000 Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:22.560 Just two days after the latest price cuts from Tesla, 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:24.759 the ev maker, as you know, we've been talking about 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:27.840 it here at Bloomberg, raising prices in the US on 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:31.160 two different models, this time the MODELESSA Model X vehicles. 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:33.760 And this is coming one day after Tesla stock took 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:36.839 a dive that was yesterday falling concerns about cutting prices 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:39.440 that led to a cutting margins. In its latest earnings release, 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:42.400 we got the details on that operating margins slipping to 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:45.240 eleven point four percent, a two year low. I feel 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:49.960 like the strategy at Tesla raising prices, cutting prices everything 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:53.280 Elon is one of the most unique Harvard Business School 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:55.960 case studies of all time. So let's get to one 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:58.160 of the most read stories on the Bloomberg that kind 0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:00.720 of wraps it all together, and it is about how 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:03.000 Tesla has entered a new era. Joining us with more 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:06.200 Bloomberg News Global Cars are Craig Trudell joining us on 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:08.800 the phone from London. Craig, thank you so much. I 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:11.440 know it's later there in London, so I appreciate getting 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:14.720 a chance to talk with you. So the new era 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:18.039 has to do with Tesla and Elon's moving on pricing. 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:19.840 Tell us about this new era and what it means. 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:24.280 Yeah, so I think you know, it's been over ten 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:27.399 years now, right since the Model S launched, and that 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:30.399 was a car that really sort of shook things up 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:32.920 for the auto industry. No one really believed that you 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:37.839 could make a compelling electric car and make any money 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:42.840 selling it, right, and Tesla has absolutely proven the industry 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:46.440 wrong in that respect. And they tried to move into 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:50.040 a new era where they would sell not only compelling 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:53.160 electric cars, but sell them for the mass markets, and 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:57.200 they really struggled to pull that off. I think first 0:01:57.440 --> 0:02:00.520 it was because if they were going to to really 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:02.680 stick to that, they were going to go out of business, 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:05.640 and so they really were not able to hit the 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:09.360 thirty five thousand dollars price point that Elon musk long promise. 0:02:10.240 --> 0:02:13.680 And then conveniently the last few years we've seen you know, 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:16.720 Tesla and the whole industry in this really sort of 0:02:16.800 --> 0:02:20.680 unprecedented situation of no one was making as many cars 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:23.560 as they had demand for and so you know, they 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:26.560 could sort of cover for the fact that their mission 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:31.359 was something they were having trouble accomplishing because everybody was 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:32.360 jacking up prices. 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:32.639 Right. 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:36.400 I think we now are sort of seeing them get 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:39.000 back to what Musk wanted to do all along, which 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:42.680 was sell a ton of electric cars. And it's really 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:45.080 really hard to do that at you know, forty thousand 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:48.119 dollars plus, right, And so we're seeing the Model three 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:51.200 come back below that threshold. It looks like the Model 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:53.919 Why is going to be there in no time, because 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:57.320 we've seen it fall twenty nine percent in roughly three 0:02:57.360 --> 0:03:00.400 months and we've just never seen anything like that before. 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:03.520 Is there a bottom craig for the Model Why specifically 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:05.440 that you could tell us a prediction on that? 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:10.560 You know, I think I would. I would reckon that, 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:13.640 you know, in that mid thirty thousand dollars range is 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:18.000 probably where we end up seeing it. And you know, 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:21.960 we're we're already seeing you know, in China in particular, 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:25.400 because they're you know, they've they've got a sort of 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:30.440 lower cost base there, They've got cheaper batteries. They It's 0:03:30.520 --> 0:03:33.120 just I think another part of this whole equation, right, 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:35.880 is they have so much capacity that they've added. Just 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:39.000 in the last year, they went from having two plants 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:42.680 one in California and one in Shanghai, two, you know, 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:45.320 in the matter of a matter of a few weeks, 0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:49.360 opening one near Berlin and one in Austin, Texas. And so, 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:51.960 you know, I think there were only just sort of 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:54.600 starting to, you know, get our minds around the fact 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:57.960 that this is a company that has has so added 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:01.280 to its ability to make cars that that's going to 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:05.320 mean some significant changes in you know, the price that 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:07.360 can can command for them. 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:09.880 So is it a case of craig And it's funny 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:11.920 because Matt Miller came out of the studio, is like 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:16.040 a nobody's understanding you know what Tesla's doing at of 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:20.920 course our car aficionado, but along with you guys. But 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:23.560 what's interesting is you're saying they're raising prices on their 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:26.840 higher end where they make the best margins, lowering it 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:29.320 on the lower end where they don't make their best margins, 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:31.400 but maybe they make it up on volume. And by 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:35.120 raising on the higher prices, they ultimately help kind of 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:39.000 pay for really getting that cheaper model out there among 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:41.960 quote unquote the masses. I mean, is that kind of 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:42.680 the strategy. 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:47.600 It's you know, I think this latest change that they've 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:51.400 made to you know, bump the model S and X 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:54.279 up is really hard to understand that you alluded to 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:58.719 in the intro. It doesn't make a whole lot of 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:01.039 sense because those two models have just been on the 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:05.640 steady march downward, and I think, you know, it's it's 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:07.839 hard for me sometimes I feel like do I have 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:11.040 Bloomberg brain and I'm just paying too much attention to 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:14.000 the to the markets. But it really feels to me 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:18.080 like this may well have been a case of Tesla 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:20.279 sort of realizing that they may be kind of freaked 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:23.159 investors out a little bit with how much they've cut 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:25.640 prices and how much of an effect it's having on 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:28.680 their margins. That maybe this was sort of a you know, 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:31.000 throwing the markets at bone to say, we get it, 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:33.440 we're going to cool it, and here's a little increase 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:36.000 on models that, by the way, now are just like 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:39.719 two point five percent of their total deliveries. So they're 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:42.760 really sort of a rounding error. If it means you know, 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:45.920 if raising the prices of those a little bit means 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:48.520 a slow down in orders, so be it. They're kind of, 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:51.719 you know, not very meaningful to the business at this point. 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:52.279 Interesting. 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:55.160 Yeah, it feels like they're kind of competing against themselves 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:57.160 in that way. But who would you say as Tesla's 0:05:57.240 --> 0:05:59.320 real external competition, Craig. 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:03.000 Yeah, I mean those the S and the X models 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:08.160 are you know, were high before these recent little bump 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:09.880 up bumps up in price. 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:10.120 Right. 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:13.080 You really have to pay you know, close to ninety 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:15.680 thousand dollars now for the Model S. And this is 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:18.600 a car that again is ten to eleven years old, right, 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:22.200 And so you know, I think that that sort of 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:26.240 you know, helps to under helps to sort of explain 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:30.400 why they've brought the prices down so much. The fact 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:33.799 that those models are a bit long in the tooth. 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:36.680 They did make an effort a couple of years ago 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:39.160 to at least update the interiors of them a little bit. 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:42.360 That did seem to help, but you know, sort of 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:45.200 underneath and in the guts of the car there, these 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:49.160 are pretty old vehicles at this point, and those are 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:54.159 competing with the likes of Mercedes and BMW where you know, 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:57.640 and and even higher end electric vehicles the porches of 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:00.960 the world where you know, I think a lot of 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:05.400 consumers are more comfortable with build quality and you know, 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:07.640 sort of craftsmanship than they might be. 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:11.560 A Tesla, right, and network and easily a network to 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:15.240 take it to if something goes astray. Hey, so in 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:18.560 your story you say Tesla abandons Mercedes, or at least 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:21.240 this is the headline on it, Tesla abandoning Mercedes battle 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:23.840 to take on the likes of Ford. So this shift 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:27.120 is meaning that Mercedes, you don't maybe need to be 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:31.400 so worried. It's other automakers in this shift by Tesla. 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:35.680 Yeah, I think the luxury players can't totally sort of 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:38.440 rest easy at this point, right. I think, you know, 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:44.400 we'll see at some point, although Lord knows when a 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:49.000 Tesla Roadster that will be another sort of a newer 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:52.320 model that will you know, command these high prices and 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:56.840 compete with the luxury players. But I think, you know, 0:07:57.080 --> 0:08:00.240 by going into the you know, thirty thousand or mid 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:04.320 thirty thousand range that musk seems headed toward, that's really 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:08.120 not where Mercedes and BMW tend to play, right, And 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:12.720 Mercedes in particular is very drastically going in the other direction. 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:17.440 Ola Clinius is really sort of making a push to 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:21.520 move further up market, focus on AMG, focus on you know, 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:25.320 big money spinners like the g Wagon, and he's very 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:29.600 comfortable with that meaning lower volume, but you know, getting 0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:33.640 more value and commanding higher margins. So he's playing a 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:35.040 very different game than Musk is. 0:08:35.120 --> 0:08:35.280 Well. 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:37.880 I have to say, Maddie just maybe before she goes 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:40.560 mid thirty for Tesla not so bad. I mean, it 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:44.280 really is a lot more manageable, you know, Craig, and 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:47.120 it does necessarily, you know, probably open up a lot 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:50.880 more consumers for Tesla. Just got about twenty seconds left here. 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:55.080 Yeah. Absolutely. I think it's just a question for me 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:57.720 of you know, what happens to this sort of brand 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:02.839 value and sort of cachet of Tesla and to whether, 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:06.320 you know, weather Musk ends up sort of regretting shooting 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:09.360 himself in the foot a little bit moving for quickly. 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:10.160 I don't know. 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:11.720 Yeah, I was trying to think, is it like Apple, 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:14.320 like who who does have a little bit of a range, 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:19.160 but they're pretty expensive any kind of Apple device. Craig, 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:21.680 good stuff, Thank you so much, really appreciate it. Have 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:24.200 a great week and Bloomberg News Global Cars are Greg 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:26.280 Trudell joining us on the phone from London. 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:30.000 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:33.360 live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen on 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:37.439 Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business app, 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:39.400 or watch us live on YouTube. 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:43.240 It has definitely there been a touch and go week 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:45.800 for the price of bitcoin. We've seen the benchmark for 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:51.200 crypto currencies dropping more than seven percent in the past 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:54.959 two trading days alone. It is, however, up around seventy 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:56.800 percent this year, so some back and forth, but we've 0:09:56.800 --> 0:09:59.679 been toying around with that thirty thousand dollars mark I 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:02.120 feel all week. So let's get to it. Because our 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:04.800 next guest in our weekly look at crypto he sees 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:08.079 a long bull run for bitcoin with his reasoning is 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:12.160 Corey Clipston. He is CEO at the Bitcoin Saving zapp 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:16.079 swan Bitcoin. He does us at the zoom in la Hey, Corey, 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:18.079 good to have you here with Maddie and myself. 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:21.160 How are you well? Thank you so much for having 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:21.480 me on. 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:23.520 Well, tell us a little bit about what's been going on. 0:10:23.600 --> 0:10:26.000 First of all, in terms of your platform, tell us 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:28.320 a little bit of idea in terms of activity users. 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:30.200 Give us an idea of what we're seeing and what 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:31.880 it tells you maybe about the bitcoin space. 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:35.240 Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, I mean, first off, thanks so much 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:39.040 for bringing me here. We're basically a full fledged financial 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:41.800 service as firm at this point that we started off 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:44.160 as a bitcoin savings app. 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:45.880 I guess it's fair to say three years. 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:52.480 Ago volumes are up dramatically, and it basically is perfectly 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:56.360 correlated with the onset of the shaky ground that we 0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:59.360 found some of the banks on about five weeks ago. 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:03.520 It was kind of that March ninth, tenth, eleventh with 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:06.839 silver Gate and signature in Silicon Valley Bank and then 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:09.839 kind of roiling over to Europe with Credit Suee. 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:12.959 And yeah, you mentioned this thesis. 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:14.559 That I'm kind of developing, and you know, I think 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:16.760 it's I've been talking about it publicly, but it's actually 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:20.360 very much for purposes. 0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:22.800 Of running my own company and thinking about. 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:27.280 Pace of hiring and advancing partnerships and entering new markets 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:29.120 and rolling out new products and things like that. And 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:33.560 basically it made me turn very aggressive in our growth 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:39.920 trajectory and plans. And it's specifically because I think that. 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:43.280 We have more people than ever. 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:47.240 In history that are receptive to talking about the merits 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:48.480 of bitcoin. 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:49.000 And what it's for. 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:52.640 And it's cleaning up this false narrative that you saw 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:56.240 a lot of in call it twenty twenty, twenty twenty one, 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:59.560 maybe even into twenty twenty two, of bitcoin being a 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:03.800 near term inflation hedge, which makes really no sense. It's 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:06.880 not about a hedge against you know, CPI numbers next 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:10.600 month or even next year. What it really is is 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:15.320 an inflation hedge in the sense of monetary debasement. 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:17.560 So it is a hedge. 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:21.679 Against the credit fiat based system and against money printing 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:24.640 that sort of inflation. And I think that's true, but 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:26.920 that really is a long term play. 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:29.480 So because we only have about six minutes left here 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:35.520 and forgive me, so if net Neet, your bullish theory 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:37.360 on bitcoin is what. 0:12:39.360 --> 0:12:43.200 So specifically, I'm bullish on adoption, so number of people 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:46.079 go up obviously long term, you know, I'm very much 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:49.280 on record saying I expect a million dollar price for 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:51.760 bitcoin by the end of the decade. But the path 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:54.880 that it'll take to get there, I think is anybody's guess. Yeah, 0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:59.080 what I'm talking about is in the past three bowl 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:02.000 market peaks, there's only been about a four to six 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:05.199 month window where Google search volumes have been off the 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:07.760 charts and where a lot of people have been rushing 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:10.600 in trying to learn about bitcoin and get up to speed. 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:12.400 And that's, you know, kind of three four to six 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:14.880 months at the end of twenty thirteen, twenty seventeen, twenty 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:17.559 twenty one. Yeah, what I think we have here is 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:20.760 something more like maybe twenty four months where there's a 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:24.680 receptive audience willing to be, as we call it, orange pilled, 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:29.120 take the orange pill and get into bitcoin, and everybody's interested, 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:31.560 and companies are looking at making sure that they have 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:34.000 enough bitcoin on the sideline to be able to pay 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:36.480 important vendors and make payroll in the event that their 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:38.240 bank runs into trouble things like that. 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:40.760 Well, I want to talk about the volume thing, because 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:43.040 I keep hearing you mentioned different metrics that show that 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:46.559 volume is great. We've got a story on the Bloomberg 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:50.200 terminal and online about how volume for crypto training seemed 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:53.720 amazing last quarter. But if you isolate just the bitcoin 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:57.199 dollar trade, parrot shows that volume was among the lowest 0:13:57.200 --> 0:13:59.400 since twenty twenty, and that's, of course amid some of 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:03.320 the regulatory chatter that's going on. And all of this 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:06.120 comes as I know, you're very familiar with the Binance 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:11.079 effect question binance ending it's zero fee trading, Does that 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:14.880 pullback from binance, which happened just in the month of March, 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:17.880 decrease some of that volume to you? And to what 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:20.880 extent are you worried about the impact of binance. 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:25.280 Not worried at all about the impact of any centralized 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:28.680 crypto casino, and at least on bitcoin. And again I 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:31.800 obviously focus on Bitcoin only and don't see much future 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:33.480 in the long run for any of the off coins 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:37.120 from a THEEUM on down. But yeah, so I guess 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:39.360 as far as bitcoin volumes, you know, if you have 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:44.040 zero fee trading and you give beneficial rates and access 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:46.960 to market makers so that they can sort of trade 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:50.480 contra with favorable terms and access versus your customers, like 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:54.040 Finance's rumored to have done over the past few years, yeah, 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:57.080 you would see some of those volumes fall off as 0:14:57.120 --> 0:15:00.280 they are forced to see some of that behavior here. 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:02.480 So I don't think there's any surprise that volumes would 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:02.800 be down. 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:05.400 But even in the bitcoin dollar trade we're seeing on 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:07.560 that pair of volume down. That doesn't concern you. 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:09.200 Not one bit. 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:11.200 Yeah, I mean there's still plenty of liquidity and not 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:13.480 much slippage. If you want to make a large buy, 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:15.160 you know, you can do t w op or view 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:18.400 app and still establish your position with almost no slippage 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:20.720 on any major trading ven you, including SWAN. 0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:24.680 So I just want to sure I'm understanding. So your 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:27.400 thesis has to do with more people maybe trading out 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:31.800 of traditional finance and then as a result opting into bitcoin. 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:32.400 Is that fair? 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:36.960 I think it's just more and more people recognizing that, 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:41.640 you know, the truth that bitcoin is the best tool 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:44.680 for the job of store of value, which is a 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:48.480 giant asset pile conservatively marked at four hundred trillion, maybe 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:50.440 aggressively at nine hundred trillion globally. 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:53.040 But how can you say that considering the volatility that 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:56.360 we've seen in bitcoin and how high it went and 0:15:56.360 --> 0:15:59.800 how how how hard it fell, how is that to 0:15:59.840 --> 0:16:02.720 be considered a store of value? And ultimately you're always 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:06.240 going to have a fixed amount, right, So it's you know, 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:09.880 the dynamics of it is not necessarily like you know, 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:12.120 a free trading currency. 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:14.440 So it is a free trading currency. And I think 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:16.280 we're confusing a couple of things. I said, it's the 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.600 best tool for store of value. It's going to take. 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:22.600 This is the technological revolution on the order of something 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:26.960 like steam power or the information revolution or mass production 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:28.840 or something like that. So it's going to disrupt all 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:31.720 industries over the course of four to eight decades, just 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:36.680 like previous technological revolutions. And so when you talk about 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:40.920 what your expectations are for where bitcoin will eventually end up, 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:43.480 you have to think about it in terms of what 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:46.960 percentage of that asset pile that is currently the store 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:50.000 value asset pile do you think the best tool for 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:53.119 the job for the job will eventually take over what timeframe? 0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:55.680 So you know, if you think that it's going to 0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:58.560 take twenty percent of that asset pile, then that would 0:16:58.600 --> 0:16:59.760 be eighty trillion dollars. 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:00.440 You have to. 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:02.000 Decide like when is it going to take that by 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:03.480 is it going to be twenty fifty is it going 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:03.800 to be. 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:07.400 Twenty thirty five? And then essentially. 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:12.240 You just have to right size your bet on that future. 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:15.080 But it's going to be extremely volatile on the way. 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:17.639 There's absolutely no way it can go in a straight 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:19.840 line from half a trillion dollars to say ten or 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:21.400 twenty or thirty trillion dollar. 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:23.040 Market cap in a straight line. 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:27.320 It's going to have manias and wild crashes along the 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:30.639 way as it grows into its rightful place as more 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:33.400 and more people understand what it is, and one of. 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:37.879 Those crashes, obviously being FTX SBF regulation is on the way. 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:42.720 Do you have concerns at all about people getting bullish 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:46.040 on bitcoin given the risks that we've already seen involved 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:50.520 in investing in cryptocurrency when you do have bad actors 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:52.640 in the system like an SBF. 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:57.200 Yeah, absolutely so. I mean again, the non bitcoin crypto 0:17:57.280 --> 0:17:59.880 space is just ripe with scams. Over ninety nine percent 0:17:59.880 --> 0:18:03.000 of those projects are deliberately set up to be pump 0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:06.600 and dumps, and the remainder that maybe could be honest 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:09.399 attempts at building something still in the long run won't 0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:11.639 need their own micro currencies. We don't live in a 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:14.280 barter system, and monetary networks trend toward one. So if 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:17.280 there is some kind of innovation that comes out of 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:21.120 the whole DE five blockchain crypto complex that still gets 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:24.480 used by people and businesses. In the future, it'll use 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:28.399 whatever the major currency is that dominates the monetary space. 0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:30.600 It'll be dollars in bitcoin, I think, for the rest 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:33.280 of the century, and we'll see what happens with that battle. 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:34.880 But that's that's decades off. 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:35.440 Well. 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:39.160 But yeah, these centralized players like they brought this regulation 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:43.399 on themselves, right, This was outright fraud and criminality on 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:47.960 the part of companies like FTX and Celsius, and it 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:51.480 was some flavor of that, maybe more toward terrible risk 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:55.280 management when it comes to Genesis, Gemini, Block five, Voyager 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:56.840 and some of these other ones that have be have 0:18:56.880 --> 0:18:59.240 cratered and lost their client's money. 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:00.960 And I think, to be fair, we're still trying to 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:04.720 figure it all out. Really, Corey, thank you so much. 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:06.960 Really give us a bunch of stuff to think about. 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:10.199 Corey Clipston, he's chief executive officer at Swan Bitcoin, as 0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:13.080 he said, really a broader financial platform. Initially started as 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:17.160 a bitcoin savings app, but they are certainly offering more stuff. 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:21.200 On the phone from La. 0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:24.160 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:28.200 live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:31.680 the Bloomberg Business App, and YouTube. You can also listen 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:34.880 live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:38.119 Just Say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:41.919 In the last twenty four hours, the state of Arizona 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:45.080 rescinded its approval for two new deep water wells for 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:48.400 a controversial Saudi Arabia owned farm in the desert west 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:51.320 of Phoenix. This on the heels of a CBS News 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:54.199 report about farms in western Arizona that are growing alfalfa, 0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:56.880 one of the most water intensive crops in an area 0:19:56.920 --> 0:19:59.520 where there's a shortage of water. CBS noting that some 0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:01.600 farms are fore owned and are shipping the crop to 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:04.280 Saudi Arabia, where it is legal to grow because it 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:08.360 takes too much water. Stories about water access to lack 0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:11.520 of and investing in seem to be everywhere. And our 0:20:11.560 --> 0:20:13.800 next guest is the CEO of Eco Lab. It's a 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:17.159 forty seven billion dollar market cap company that is a 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:20.520 global provider of water hygiene and infection prevention solutions for 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:23.800 everyone and everyone in the food, safety, sanitation, and oil 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:26.400 and gas industries and more. Ecolobe shares by the way, 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:29.399 up nearly fourteen percent year to date, and we welcome 0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:33.040 the CEO joining us via zoom from Saint Paul, Minnesota, 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:37.600 where the company is based. Christophe Beck is here with us. Christoph, 0:20:37.680 --> 0:20:40.439 nice to have you here with Maddie and myself. I 0:20:40.480 --> 0:20:42.560 have to say this CBS report, I'm sure you saw 0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:45.239 it or I just feel like there's been a lot 0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:49.600 of reporting about access to water around the country or 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:52.919