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Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five,

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Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hartunger.

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Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger.

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Speaker 1: On the side, we are two working parents who love

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Speaker 1: our careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds.

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Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family,

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Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping

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Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get

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Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds.

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Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode one hundred and eighty nine,

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Speaker 1: which is airing in mid March of twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 1: We're calling this Get Out of Your Rut, though we

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Speaker 1: will have a bit of a semantic discussion about what

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Speaker 1: is a rut. To me, a rut is when you

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Speaker 1: aren't excited about life, like it all feels ho hum

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Speaker 1: and the same, which I know a lot of people

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Speaker 1: have been suffering from over the past few months. I mean,

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Speaker 1: certainly with COVID not going as many places, having fewer

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Speaker 1: things available to us that might be novel or interesting,

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Speaker 1: so it sort of limited our universes to more of

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Speaker 1: these same old, same old, But we have a little

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Speaker 1: announcement here of Sarah getting out of one particular run

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Speaker 1: of the same old, same old. What big happened in

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Speaker 1: your house recently? Well, you may remember for my twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty one Goals episode that one of our big goals

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Speaker 1: was for Genevieve to be potty trained. And I think

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Speaker 1: I can safely say Genevieve is toilet trained. Yay, Okay,

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Speaker 1: the past couple of weeks we've had like very minimal accidents.

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Speaker 1: She's doing all modalities of toileting on her little potty,

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Speaker 1: not in diapers. Obviously, nighttime is a separate thing. But

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Speaker 1: I'm I don't really rush my kids in that area,

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Speaker 1: and I don't expect her to fix that anytime soon.

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Speaker 1: But that's no big deal to me. Was it? Actually?

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Speaker 1: How long do you put them in diapers overnight? Though?

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Speaker 1: I mean, oh, I don't think until they set they

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Speaker 1: always wake up gey. I mean, yes, I'm very forgiving

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Speaker 1: in that realm, and I don't think my kids would

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Speaker 1: want any datail else discussed. No, no, big kids is

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Speaker 1: are in diapers now. That's just in case anybody is

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Speaker 1: thinking they are. No, no, no no, just Genevieve. But there

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Speaker 1: may have been some extended timelines there, but everyone gets

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Speaker 1: out of them eventually, as I have seen, and so

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Speaker 1: I'm not worried about that for Genevieve, and I'm very

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Speaker 1: happy that we can like not have to worry about

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Speaker 1: changing diapers all day. Yeah. Was there was there anything

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Speaker 1: that was sort of a moment of breakthrough or this

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Speaker 1: was just gradually she was more willing to extend her

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Speaker 1: being toilet trained at school to also being at home. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think. I mean I feel like school mostly did it,

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Speaker 1: but then she was in this mindset I think when

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Speaker 1: she was just like, oh, well, at home, I used

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Speaker 1: diapers and at school I used the potty, and I

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Speaker 1: was like, once her teacher was kind of like, I

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Speaker 1: think she's ready. I mean she was past three. To me,

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Speaker 1: three is kind of like my cut off when I

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Speaker 1: get a little more serious. And so I just took

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Speaker 1: the diapers off at home and you know, let her

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Speaker 1: have a couple of accidents to kind of like reinforce,

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Speaker 1: like you just have to use your little potty, and

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Speaker 1: she did very quickly. And we also had a reward

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Speaker 1: where she would get one eminem for certain types of

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Speaker 1: elimination and three for others, and that was very rewarding

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Speaker 1: and motivating apparently. So there's still a few eminems left

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Speaker 1: in the bag. I don't plan on buying a new bag,

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Speaker 1: but I felt, you know, as much as controversial food

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Speaker 1: bribes can be, this felt relatively minimal. And we're not

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Speaker 1: the kind of house where chocolate is like forbidden in

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Speaker 1: little kids, so you know, it was fine. It was

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Speaker 1: that fine. I'd say, if it works, it works, and

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Speaker 1: then the rest of your life, no one ever gives

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Speaker 1: you eminems again for going to the bathroom. Sadly enough,

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Speaker 1: that is true. But you can still get them on Halloween,

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Speaker 1: so that's true. Well, I'm glad that she is. Did

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Speaker 1: you have any time where is this the first time

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Speaker 1: you're out of dark? Because you were, well, yes, no,

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Speaker 1: I did. We had no diapers for a while. Cameron

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Speaker 1: was right. It was about four he was three and

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Speaker 1: like three quarters or something when she was born, so

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Speaker 1: we did. We had like eight months with no diapers.

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Speaker 1: He trained right at his third birthday. I remember that

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Speaker 1: we were taking a trip to Disney World and our

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Speaker 1: nanny's like, I'm gonna train Cameron, and it was like

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Speaker 1: coming up in like three days and I'm like, don't

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Speaker 1: train him now, we're gonna have like a disaster in Disney.

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Speaker 1: And she actually did train him in like two days

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Speaker 1: and he didn't have any accidents at Disney. So sometimes

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Speaker 1: when they're ready, they're just ready. They're ready. Yeah, we've

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Speaker 1: got a ways to go until then. But well, we

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Speaker 1: had like, you know, a year two years off and

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Speaker 1: then back on. And you know, between Ruth and Alex,

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Speaker 1: we only had like six months off and so and

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Speaker 1: then before that there was no time off because they

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Speaker 1: were all stacked up on. We had like multiple kids

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Speaker 1: and diapers at various points. But yeah, all good, all good,

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Speaker 1: We'll get there eventually. But so, getting back to the

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Speaker 1: idea of ruts, which is what this episode is about,

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Speaker 1: this raised the question of the difference be between rut

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Speaker 1: and routine because doing the same thing all the time

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Speaker 1: also is the definition of routine, and sometimes routines and

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Speaker 1: even rituals, which is an even more sort of positive

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Speaker 1: connotation of the word, you know, ritual could also be

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Speaker 1: rut in another light. So so Sarah, you were saying,

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Speaker 1: you're maybe more on the line of it's okay to

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Speaker 1: do the same thing all the time, I think it

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Speaker 1: depends on one's personal tolerance or enjoyment of rituals. And

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Speaker 1: I agree, like when you find that it's no longer

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Speaker 1: serving you and you are wishing for more novelty because

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Speaker 1: life just feels boring, then that crosses over into rut territory.

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Speaker 1: Yet the same person could be doing the same behaviors

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Speaker 1: and just be like I love this, I feel so good.

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Speaker 1: I love doing this every morning, and I love taking

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Speaker 1: my walk at twelve ohse six, And you know whatever.

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Speaker 1: People are have different rigidity levels about their routines. I

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Speaker 1: would say, like I probably fall on the like a

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Speaker 1: little bit more prone to like enjoying routine like I. So,

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Speaker 1: for example, my husband loves to vary his running routes,

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Speaker 1: like and he would love to say, oh, where did

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Speaker 1: you run? I'm like the same path the same place always,

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Speaker 1: Like why would I change it? Like I know it's safe,

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Speaker 1: I know I'm not going to trip over the sidewalk,

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Speaker 1: I know exactly where the dog's going to bark and

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Speaker 1: that he's in a fence, so I don't have to worry,

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Speaker 1: Like why would I make a change because I enjoy

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Speaker 1: this run? So I think that's like just an example,

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Speaker 1: where one person's happy ritual routine is another person's run. Also,

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Speaker 1: I have a very high tolerance for like loops runs

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Speaker 1: with like you know, like three loops of like you know,

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Speaker 1: one point five miles or something, whereas my husband would

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Speaker 1: like never want to do that. So I think that's

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Speaker 1: like an interesting yardstick as to like your tolerance for

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Speaker 1: repetition or maybe even your enjoyment of repetition for some people. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm not so big on because I feel like when

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Speaker 1: I finished the first leap ony, my am, let's just

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Speaker 1: be done. I don't want to do that same loop again.

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Speaker 1: I've never gotten into track workouts like where I, you know,

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Speaker 1: have to run around the same track ten times, like, well,

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Speaker 1: I'd rather run with the treadmill the same Like I

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Speaker 1: don't like the treadmill. I mean, I use it because

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Speaker 1: I'm in Pennsylvania where it's snowing and spend snowing for

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Speaker 1: the past three weeks. But you know, even so on

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Speaker 1: once the ice has been cleared, I will get out

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Speaker 1: on the roads, you know, and just be careful because

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Speaker 1: I would prefer having the novelty of the scenery versus

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Speaker 1: knowing I could get a certain amount at a certain pace,

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Speaker 1: which is what I could do on the treadmill. To

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Speaker 1: be fair, I like the scenery too. I just don't

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Speaker 1: mind if it's the same and you don't feel after

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Speaker 1: the first loop like I'm done, you know, like because

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Speaker 1: that's a very easy out at that point. No, no, okay,

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Speaker 1: probably that's okay. Well interesting, Yeah, I remember there was

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Speaker 1: a question on it was that the Happiness Happier podcast

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Speaker 1: several years ago with a I just remember because this

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Speaker 1: woman talked about how she had had to switch from

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Speaker 1: a one mile loop that she would walk because she

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Speaker 1: meant to walk three miles and after the first loop

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Speaker 1: every time she'd be like, eh, done, you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't feel like walk again. So she had to go

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Speaker 1: find a two point seven mile circumference lake. And then

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Speaker 1: because once you were in, you were in, like there

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Speaker 1: was no there was no point at one mile in

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Speaker 1: where you could just like I'm back of the car.

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Speaker 1: So you know, it was the importance of finding a

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Speaker 1: conveniently sized lake. I think it was the key message

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Speaker 1: of that episode. Well, you know, I would say that

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Speaker 1: I like a little bit of novelty. Partently, it's also

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Speaker 1: that with the kids when we're all at home all

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Speaker 1: week in for instance, or for long stretches of time,

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Speaker 1: the kids are just all on their devices or fighting.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, it'd be fine if they were all

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Speaker 1: on their devices like pleasantly, but that's not what happens.

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Speaker 1: It's like two people were fighting and then somebody else

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Speaker 1: is screaming about something. And whereas getting out and doing

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Speaker 1: something at leaves gives the day a little bit of focus.

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Speaker 1: And so try to introduce some novelty like that. You know,

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Speaker 1: in our evenings, our weekday evenings, we you know, it's

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Speaker 1: harder to do anything novel, but we have like gone

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Speaker 1: outside in the evening for instance, or you know, people

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Speaker 1: have activities on different nights, and so that can allow

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Speaker 1: for a little bit of novelty, like running an errand

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Speaker 1: they're going somewhere new during a kid's activity at night,

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Speaker 1: just to shake things up a bit. So I guess

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Speaker 1: if you like shaking things up a bit, then maybe

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Speaker 1: you lean more toward that side. But point of this

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Speaker 1: episode is if you are finding yourself in a rut

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Speaker 1: and you would like to get out of it, what

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Speaker 1: can you do? I mean, Sarah, have you ever felt

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Speaker 1: yourself to be in a professional rut? Oh? Yeah, personally

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Speaker 1: and professional. I mean, don't get me wrong, even though

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Speaker 1: I like running roots, it's a spectrum, right, So maybe

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Speaker 1: I like ritualization more than average, But it doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: that at some point I don't want to just go

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Speaker 1: crazy and do something different, for example, like take the

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Speaker 1: family on vacation to completely change scenery and change schedules,

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Speaker 1: or maybe like have a structured framework but then plug

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Speaker 1: and play some more different experiences to take away the monotony.

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Speaker 1: Like maybe I know what the weekend is going to

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Speaker 1: look like, but you know what outing we go on

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Speaker 1: could really really changed from week to week. Professionally, yes,

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Speaker 1: I think when I was purely clinical and every day

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Speaker 1: was very much the same and I was also seeing

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Speaker 1: like a lot of very very similar cases, I was

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Speaker 1: a little over it, and so I did look for

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Speaker 1: a more variety in my career because it's sort of

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Speaker 1: like I would like look at my schedule and just

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Speaker 1: see the endless days back to back of like, you know,

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Speaker 1: more of the same. And even though I really love

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Speaker 1: my work, that didn't quite feel right, like there wasn't

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Speaker 1: enough there for me. So I guess, yeah, that could

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Speaker 1: be construed as a as a professional rut of sorts,

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Speaker 1: and so you consciously tried to vary your practice some

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Speaker 1: like to seek out specialties. I you know, got got

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Speaker 1: very lucky and found GM. And I think I think,

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Speaker 1: no matter what, I would have found something I don't like.

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Speaker 1: You know, if those opportunities hadn't come up, I would

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Speaker 1: have thought of something else. Like there, there was definitely

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Speaker 1: going to have to be something to break up the monotony,

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Speaker 1: to keep me interested and excited. And I think that's

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Speaker 1: probably for people whose jobs are like very very similar

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Speaker 1: day after day, because mine is not, which is funny

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Speaker 1: when I'm saying all I love rituals, but maybe because

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Speaker 1: I get enough excitement in my job that I I

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Speaker 1: guess you'd have to find something else, because that would

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Speaker 1: that could get really challenging. Yeah, And I've thought of

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Speaker 1: that sometimes with different parts of medicine, because some people

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Speaker 1: it's you have a certain procedure that you do, you know,

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Speaker 1: however many times a day. I mean, if it's a

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Speaker 1: fifteen minute procedure, you do it, you know, dozens of

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Speaker 1: times a day. If it's an hour long one, you

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Speaker 1: do it fewer, obviously, but you know there's still that

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Speaker 1: you do the same thing over and over and obviously

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Speaker 1: you're very good at it, but you know, it's kind

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Speaker 1: of hard to get excited, perhaps about the tenth similar

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Speaker 1: procedure for the day. I think sometimes, like with medicine,

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Speaker 1: like the variations on the theme will be like, well

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Speaker 1: now I'm doing out patient this day, and this day

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Speaker 1: I'm doing some big case that's more complex, like I

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Speaker 1: see with Josh, Like even though yes, of course, like

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Speaker 1: his bread and butter is like doing bypasses and he

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Speaker 1: could just do the same thing all day, I don't

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Speaker 1: feel like his days are the same because some days

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Speaker 1: are more clinics. Some days he might have, you know,

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Speaker 1: other smaller percent. So maybe people are good about you know,

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Speaker 1: we don't turn into widgets and factory workers. We're not

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Speaker 1: like literally doing the exact same thing, and if you were,

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Speaker 1: you'd probably find some way to spice things up. Spice

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Speaker 1: things up. All right, Well, let's take a quick break

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Speaker 1: and then we'll come back with ways to actually get

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Speaker 1: yourself out of a rut. Well, welcome back. We've been

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Speaker 1: talking about ruts. First, What is a rut versus a

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Speaker 1: routine or even a ritual, which are all different ways

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Speaker 1: of referring to doing the same thing over and over again.

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Speaker 1: But Sarah had been talking about some of the ruts

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Speaker 1: she'd been in. I've definitely been in professional ruts too.

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Speaker 1: I think I feel more like I'm in one when

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Speaker 1: I'm doing a lot of projects that I'm not that

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Speaker 1: excited about, or I don't have one big project that

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Speaker 1: I find very motivating. I love writing books, and if

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Speaker 1: I'm not in a period of time where I am

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Speaker 1: focused on a book, it comes very easy to feel like, eh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm just doing whatever. And so I've tried

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Speaker 1: to be conscious of that, to always be coming up

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Speaker 1: with a book idea or have one that I am

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Speaker 1: working toward. And if it's not, you know, one of

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Speaker 1: my nonfiction time management titles, to be trying to write

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Speaker 1: a novel or something like that. That would just make

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Speaker 1: life a little bit more exciting. But just a few

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Speaker 1: other ideas we came up with for getting out of

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Speaker 1: your rut. One is to try a mini collaboration with someone.

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Speaker 1: So Sarah and I obviously collaborate on this podcast the

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Speaker 1: other but there are lots of quicker ways to do it,

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Speaker 1: you know, in this social media era, you could just

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Speaker 1: do a quick Facebook live or Instagram live chat with

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Speaker 1: somebody that you know professionally or personally and let others

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Speaker 1: listen in, you know, a Zoom discussion with a colleague

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Speaker 1: where two of you maybe have expertise on a topic

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Speaker 1: and invite your colleagues to come listen in, or if

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Speaker 1: there's appropriate in your industry, maybe something more broadly that

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Speaker 1: people might be able to listen into. But these are

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Speaker 1: so easy to do right now because of nobody needing

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Speaker 1: to be in the same place anyway. Like it'd be

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Speaker 1: one thing to say, Okay, I'm bringing in three different

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Speaker 1: speakers on a topic and we're going to have five

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Speaker 1: hundred people in the auditorium listening, like that's a big deal.

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Speaker 1: But putting those same three people on Zoom and then

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Speaker 1: sending out, you know, an email to colleagues and saying, hey,

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Speaker 1: if you want to join us too, is it's just

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Speaker 1: so much easier. So, you know, you could get yourself

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Speaker 1: a nice little professional shot in the arm by doing

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Speaker 1: something like that. Yeah, and that makes me think, oh,

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Speaker 1: go ahead, no, go ahead, keep going. I was gonna say,

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Speaker 1: we need to do our Instagram. We should do an

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Speaker 1: impromptu Instagram lage. Sometimes it'll be a fun experiment. It

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Speaker 1: would all right, stay tuned. People just come up with

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Speaker 1: a new a new collaboration idea. Another idea is to

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Speaker 1: consciously reach out to more people because more people that

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Speaker 1: you kind of put in your network and you sort

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Speaker 1: of keep in touch with people come up with things

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Speaker 1: or just let you know about stuff that's going on.

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Speaker 1: My friend Molly Beck wrote a book called reach Out,

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Speaker 1: which is about her method where she sends an email

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Speaker 1: five times a week, one email per work day to somebody,

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Speaker 1: either somebody she has met in the past, somebody a

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Speaker 1: friend has suggested she gets to know, you know, somebody

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Speaker 1: she met recently that she'd like to establish ties with,

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Speaker 1: or just you know, someone out in the universe doing

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Speaker 1: something randomly, which is how I became the target of

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Speaker 1: Amali beck reach Out many years ago. But you know,

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Speaker 1: now we know each other. It's great and that's what

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Speaker 1: happens because she has just an incredible network. As you

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Speaker 1: might imagine from sending out one email a day for

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Speaker 1: like ten years. Not easy. You got to get in

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Speaker 1: the habit of doing it, but it's not a huge

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Speaker 1: investment of time per day. They won't all work out

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Speaker 1: like most maybe people won't respond, you know, even people

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Speaker 1: that write back by then nothing will come of it.

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Speaker 1: But even if like one a week, did I mean,

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Speaker 1: that would be like forty fifty people a year that

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Speaker 1: you have more contact with. If only twenty of those

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Speaker 1: you know, turn into a solid thing in five years,

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Speaker 1: that's like one hundred very tight connections in your network,

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Speaker 1: which is just amazing. And the more people you sort

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Speaker 1: of are in touch with, the more like like, hey,

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Speaker 1: I heard of this really cool thing that's going on.

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Speaker 1: You might want to be part of this, and that

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Speaker 1: can be a great way to get out of your rut.

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Speaker 1: We both talked about reading something and like during the

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Speaker 1: work day, even do you do you do this? I

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Speaker 1: mean you read all the time, but you know, I

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Speaker 1: was in like a workday reading thing, but I've sort

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Speaker 1: of replaced that with my workday walking, so I'm not

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Speaker 1: doing it as much during the work day. But I

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Speaker 1: think when you read something that's just really outside of

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Speaker 1: your normal genre, that can help you get out of

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Speaker 1: your rut in a very low key, low risk way.

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Speaker 1: Or getting into something that's more like history about a

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Speaker 1: time that you had like never known anything, it'll just

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Speaker 1: feel like open up this door of knowledge. And I

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Speaker 1: had a fun idea which was like you could like

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Speaker 1: read a novel set in a time and then watch

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Speaker 1: a documentary kind of on that same culture or time,

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Speaker 1: and then maybe match like your next takeout night to

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Speaker 1: that culture or time. And that seems so silly and

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Speaker 1: low key, but it can be a way to make

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Speaker 1: life more fun and memorable and kind of break out

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Speaker 1: of a mini rut. Yeah, I mean in terms of

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Speaker 1: like professionally and things you could do during the day

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Speaker 1: and things that people aren't gonna necessarily look at you

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Speaker 1: weird for doing. We subscribe to The Economist and there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of random articles in there, but they're

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Speaker 1: you know, interesting and well researched. And you know, if

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Speaker 1: you've never pondered the political situation in say, Uganda, they

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Speaker 1: will tell you about it and you will learn about it.

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Speaker 1: And that's probably not something you are necessarily thinking about,

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Speaker 1: unless you you know, have family in Uganda or something,

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Speaker 1: but you know it will nudge your brain in slightly

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Speaker 1: different directions and sometimes just doing that, you know, helps

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Speaker 1: you think of things like not that you know your

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Speaker 1: job has anything to do with the political situation in Uganda,

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Speaker 1: but you just are thinking slightly differently. And it's the

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Speaker 1: equivalent of like going outside for a walk, like you

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Speaker 1: just have your brain in a different space and that

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Speaker 1: can nudge you sort of a little bit out of

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Speaker 1: you know, your rut. And you know, reading The Economist

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Speaker 1: makes you look, you know, classy. I mean, I'm sure

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Speaker 1: you could read People magazine and have the same thing happen,

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Speaker 1: but people might feel a little more funny about that,

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Speaker 1: like during the workday. Yes, that is probably true. That's

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Speaker 1: so funny. We get the Atlantic Atlantic you have a

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Speaker 1: lot of tangents. Tangents in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, which

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Speaker 1: you know you could officially take a course too, especially

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Speaker 1: now there are so many online offerings, you know, partly

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Speaker 1: because everyone's doing those Zoom discussions or Facebook live things

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Speaker 1: or whatever, and that allows you to see something like

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you live in let's say Philadelphia, you

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Speaker 1: are probably not going to do anything with I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I'm making this up here, but like the San Francisco

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Speaker 1: Orchestra is just like not on your radar screen. But

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Speaker 1: if they have a lecture and then somebody playing a

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Speaker 1: flute piece, you know, on Facebook Live, like you'd be

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Speaker 1: able to watch that and learn something about that flute

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Speaker 1: concerto that you didn't know before. I mean it probably

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Speaker 1: won't because they won't have all of them together, But

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Speaker 1: you know, flute solo, so you know about stuff like that,

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Speaker 1: or just a mini course in something that is at

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Speaker 1: least theoretically professionally related but not your day to day stuff.

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Speaker 1: So coding, lots of people could benefit from learning a

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Speaker 1: little bit of you know, technology skills, statistics. It's the

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Speaker 1: rare business that you know doesn't use statistics in some way,

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Speaker 1: shape or form, and I've found that it's the rare

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Speaker 1: person who knows much about statistics. So that can be

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Speaker 1: a really cool thing to expand your knowledge. On design,

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Speaker 1: There's so much that's involved in good design, and so

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Speaker 1: learning a little bit more about that might be something

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Speaker 1: that would would be helpful professionally kind of nudge you

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Speaker 1: out of that rut. But it's not the same thing

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Speaker 1: you do every day, because you know, again, you don't

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Speaker 1: want to do more of the same thing you do

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Speaker 1: a small group. Sarah, did you ever start the professional

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Speaker 1: book Club? No? No, yes, I know, well because I've

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Speaker 1: sort of debated, like, are we at the point most

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Speaker 1: of the providers are not vaccinated? Should we just do

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Speaker 1: this in person out side versus zoom I don't know.

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Speaker 1: We hadn't figured it out, so but it could stick,

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Speaker 1: could definitely still happen. When you mentioned courses, though, I

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Speaker 1: thought about like that, I'm doing this like wellness coaching

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Speaker 1: thing because we're going to be launching a coaching program

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Speaker 1: for our residents and just learning how to coach, which

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Speaker 1: is actually a very different skill set than like being

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Speaker 1: a physician. Has been really fun. Like I felt like

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Speaker 1: I was in school and like learning a whole new thing,

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Speaker 1: and that definitely was very rut breaking just because it

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Speaker 1: was like a different part of my brain. So that's

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Speaker 1: that's another kind of tangential. And I think learning about

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Speaker 1: different like financial wellness can have not financial wellness, financial literacy,

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Speaker 1: financial how businesses work. Like maybe you work on a

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Speaker 1: different part of your company, but have you ever learned

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Speaker 1: a little bit about the finance part of your company

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Speaker 1: and how that works, Because a lot of times that

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Speaker 1: can actually be useful in what you do because you

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Speaker 1: have that kind of valuable perspective. But it's something that

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Speaker 1: many of us kind of ignore. And yet a lot

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Speaker 1: of times there are those kind of resources or people

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Speaker 1: that you could learn from at your organization and that

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Speaker 1: might actually kind of help you and be in interesting

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Speaker 1: and teach you some new valuable skills. Yeah, but you

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Speaker 1: could do you know, a small group professional kind of thing,

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Speaker 1: like you know, a book club or accountability group, but

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Speaker 1: just having you know, a small group of colleagues who

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00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:15,760
Speaker 1: wouldn't have to be in the same office as you now.

430
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:17,840
Speaker 1: I mean it could be you know from around your organization,

431
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:20,280
Speaker 1: or could be external to your organization too, but that

432
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:22,679
Speaker 1: you check in with once a month or so just

433
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,600
Speaker 1: to see what is going on in the world. And

434
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:27,640
Speaker 1: the more sort of eyes and ears you have out there,

435
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:32,560
Speaker 1: the more different places it can take your career as well.

436
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:37,119
Speaker 1: So those are all some ideas. Personal ruts. Are you

437
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,240
Speaker 1: feeling like you're in one at all? But no, you're

438
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:42,320
Speaker 1: feeling more happy with with routines as they are right now.

439
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,480
Speaker 1: I don't feel like we've been a terrible personal rut.

440
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,880
Speaker 1: I feel like we've been able to introduce enough novelty.

441
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,000
Speaker 1: But I know that may depend on the area in

442
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,320
Speaker 1: which you're lived and living in the activities in which

443
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:58,680
Speaker 1: you feel more constrained. I do feel like I'm ready

444
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 1: for a vacation, like like a change of atmosphere maybe,

445
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 1: so that maybe that's a little bit of a personal rut. Yeah,

446
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:09,000
Speaker 1: we've definitely been feeling somewhat in this and you know

447
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,680
Speaker 1: this even with a lot of effort on my part

448
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:13,959
Speaker 1: to make life a little bit more interesting. I mean,

449
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:19,679
Speaker 1: it's partly just winter and COVID working on it. I

450
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:23,200
Speaker 1: you know, suggest a formula for people as they plan

451
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,639
Speaker 1: their weeks, which of course our listeners are no doubt

452
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 1: planning their weeks, but doing one big adventure, one little adventure,

453
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,960
Speaker 1: and maybe something whimsical. I've been thinking about adding that

454
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,960
Speaker 1: into the formula. The big adventure would be kind of

455
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,119
Speaker 1: like a half day weekend thing, three hours, four hours

456
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,479
Speaker 1: maybe or obviously you could do it on a Tuesday night.

457
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:46,879
Speaker 1: Most people don't, but you know, theoretically three hours on

458
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 1: a Tuesday night would be possible. But that would be

459
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 1: like your big adventure. Your little adventure could just be

460
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:55,119
Speaker 1: like an hour and then add something whimsical, which you know,

461
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:58,120
Speaker 1: we said, something offbeat and fun. This could be as

462
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 1: you know, interesting, as like shaped pancakes for breakfast. We

463
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 1: did your Valentine's Day, you know, heart shaped pancakes for breakfast,

464
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 1: and then wound up, you know, walking through the giant

465
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 1: heart at the Franklin Institute for Valentine's Day. But you know,

466
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 1: whimsy could just be something like having a crazy pizza night.

467
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:18,879
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of it could be food based,

468
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 1: just because that's something that's available to people now. Somebody

469
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,439
Speaker 1: even talked about trying to eat their breakfast with chopsticks.

470
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,719
Speaker 1: I guess they had some leftover from Chinese takeout night

471
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 1: or something. You know, anything that's offbeat and silly can

472
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 1: just make life a little bit more fun and interesting.

473
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:41,639
Speaker 1: And often the whimsical aspect is there even if you

474
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 1: can't do anything else. I mean, you can paint your

475
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,199
Speaker 1: fingernails purple, even if there's almost nothing else that you

476
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 1: can do. So you know, that's a that's a formula

477
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 1: that I'm certainly trying. It's a lot harder now with COVID,

478
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:57,439
Speaker 1: but like this week, we're going potentially ice skating on

479
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 1: the outdoor rink around here. We're doing a winter fest,

480
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 1: which involves a ice slide somewhere. You know, just little

481
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,199
Speaker 1: things like that to try and take advantage of the

482
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 1: season and you have a few more adventures in life.

483
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 1: That sounds very fun. I think that I don't know

484
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,120
Speaker 1: if it takes away from the whimsy or the ret busting.

485
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,679
Speaker 1: But for me having something planned that's different again, like

486
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 1: I feel like I then get to experience it doubly

487
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: because I have, like that's something different to look forward to.

488
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 1: So I'm kind of excited that it. Like I have

489
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 1: my mommy day's plan and I don't even know we'll do,

490
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:33,199
Speaker 1: and I don't know how whimsical or exciting it will be,

491
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 1: but just the fact that like there's something different on

492
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 1: my calendar and I'm not working that day and I'm

493
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 1: just going to focus on one kid. To me, that's

494
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,880
Speaker 1: that's like a nice way to break up personal rutness

495
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,920
Speaker 1: because that's going to be a very different day and memorable,

496
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 1: even if we don't do that much, just because it's

497
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,479
Speaker 1: like designated as such. You know. Yeah, So what are

498
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 1: some of the things that you've done? You had a

499
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: list here, Oh, yes, Well, during the pandemic, I think

500
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 1: that one thing that was I just found other things

501
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 1: to really just myself with. Now, many of them tended

502
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 1: to be sort of repetitive and ritualistic, because maybe that's

503
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 1: what I'm drawn to. But for example, I did that

504
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 1: whole eighty day Obsession workout program, which was like something

505
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 1: very different, like a different style of exercise than I

506
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 1: had done before, and I did feel like it got

507
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 1: me out of a bit of a workout rut, like

508
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 1: I was tired of like the same you know, same things,

509
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:20,879
Speaker 1: same videos, same things that I had been doing. So

510
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 1: that was fun. You know, we do do takeout night

511
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 1: every Saturday, so once again that's a ritual. But you

512
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: can make that more fun by varying the cuisine or

513
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 1: having a different person pick each time, or like elevating

514
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:33,679
Speaker 1: it and making it fancy once in a while and

515
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 1: doing candles and you know, something else to just make

516
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 1: it more special. I talked about my coaching class, and yeah,

517
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 1: just like trying new things within a framework that you're

518
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: already comfortable, that's my style of getting out of my rut. Well,

519
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 1: because you learned this, I mean you also learn like

520
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 1: hand lettering. Right, so we know that you love your planners,

521
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: you have your planner ritual, but now you're going to

522
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 1: take that up a notch with your new Yeah. I did.

523
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: I took like an online like skill share class, and

524
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 1: I did learn some stuff even in like an one

525
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 1: hour long class, like the things that I had kind

526
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 1: of been doing wrong that I wanted to fix and

527
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 1: I have seen a noticeable improvement, so I would love

528
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:10,439
Speaker 1: to do to do more of that. So that's a

529
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 1: great example. Well, the idea of workout is something you

530
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 1: can do to shake up your workout routine. I mean

531
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:19,879
Speaker 1: this helped with fitness in general, having somebody else's training plan.

532
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 1: I mean, that's one of the reasons people loved CrossFit

533
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: and going to the CrossFit gens is every day it

534
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 1: was a different workout of the day, right, and you

535
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 1: didn't know what it was going to be, and so

536
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 1: it would be something that perhaps you hadn't necessarily done

537
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,479
Speaker 1: before because most of us aren't you given to leaping

538
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 1: across tires or whatever else the crossfitters were doing. But

539
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 1: that's one of the things that was so appealing about it,

540
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: I think to people, and you know, Sarah and I

541
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: are both doing that Many Happy Miles program, and it's

542
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 1: partly just that our running is suggested then by someone else.

543
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,360
Speaker 1: Don't necessarily always do it. But there's a different workout

544
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: than you might have guessed to do on any given day,

545
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 1: and so that can bust a routine as well, a

546
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 1: buster route bust a rut as well. Well. Yes, and

547
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: even within that program, they're good about making each month

548
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 1: kind of having different things and different goals so that

549
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,919
Speaker 1: they're even trying to rut bust within the framework of

550
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 1: a year long program, which is which is cool. Yeah.

551
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 1: A couple other things you can do is go revisit

552
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,679
Speaker 1: a hobby. I have been playing the piano at the

553
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: new house before it becomes a construction zone. We bought

554
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: the piano off the former resident there, and it was

555
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 1: you know, it's just fun to go over there and

556
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,239
Speaker 1: play in an empty house. And you know, maybe you

557
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: don't necessarily own an instrument, but here's an idea. So

558
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 1: we are renting instruments for kids doing band, right, Like,

559
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: there's all sorts of music rental companies just because a

560
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 1: lot of people whose kids take a year of band,

561
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: they're not going to commit to buying a whole instrument

562
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 1: for that in case your kid, you know, plays the

563
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 1: Alto sax for one year and never wants to do

564
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 1: it again. But if you, for instance, did play the

565
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,399
Speaker 1: Alto sax in high school and then stopped, you could

566
00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,640
Speaker 1: rent an Alto sax from one of those companies too,

567
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:01,880
Speaker 1: Like you don't actually have to go through a school

568
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 1: to do it, and so you know, rent the instrument

569
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 1: and you know, months to month and play it for

570
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 1: a while and then have it and you know you

571
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: can practice here and there. If that was something you

572
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 1: enjoyed in the past, that might definitely shake up an

573
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 1: evening routine. You can. Speaking of things that kids do,

574
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 1: you could take a lesson with a kid as a

575
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:23,879
Speaker 1: way to kind of use that time that you might

576
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,159
Speaker 1: have just been sitting on the sidelines or in the

577
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 1: car at something maybe a joint, you know, virtual chess

578
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: lesson or something in person like ice skating or kind

579
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,640
Speaker 1: of surfing, if you're in a place where that's possible,

580
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: but anything that you would both be beginners in with

581
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: a kid who's say, you know, over eight years old,

582
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: that there might be possibility for both of you to learn.

583
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: So that can be a way to bust up the

584
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: family rut as well. Oh yeah, I like that. I

585
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: feel like Josh would be, especially our kids have done

586
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: skateboard lessons and I don't think he normally participates, but

587
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: that's mostly just for safety, but he would love to. Yes,

588
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 1: that is true that as an adult you don't want

589
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: to get injured, but you know, maybe we wouldn't get

590
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 1: injured doing chess or voice lessons or something that you

591
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: could also do with your kids. And they have done

592
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 1: skateboarding practice together and I can see that they're both

593
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 1: enjoying learning on their different levels. So there you go.

594
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 1: It's possible. It's possible suggesting something just little like going

595
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 1: to the library if you're somewhere where your library is open,

596
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 1: or even if you're not, the one thing that might

597
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: be challenging with, you know, getting delivery of your books

598
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 1: or picking them up outside is it's kind of the

599
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: randomness that is the fun here. But like going into

600
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 1: the stacks, going into some completely different section than you

601
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 1: would ever go to, and like pulling out a pretty

602
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: looking book and just learning something that you never would

603
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 1: have before can introduce an element of whimsy into your life.

604
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: Making a list of one hundred dreams just because it

605
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 1: gets your brain focused on thinking about things that might

606
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: get you out of your rut, maybe even not so

607
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: much now, but that you might want to do over

608
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 1: the next year too. I realized that in the fall

609
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: I would like to go see Falling Water the Frank

610
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: Lloyd Wright House that is in Pennsylvania. I had thought

611
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 1: about maybe we could go do it over spring break,

612
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: and then I realized, you know what, I don't think

613
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: that five children want to go visit architecture a spring

614
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: break activity. So maybe I will do that myself in

615
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: the fall, because the leaves are supposed to be really

616
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: pretty around there too, So that's now on my list

617
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 1: of one hundred dreams. But just generally going outside, you know,

618
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: we taught we stopped around in the snow at night.

619
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 1: The other night, my kids went outside in the dark

620
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: and played hide and seek in the backyard with flashlights

621
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: in the snow, and it just changes up an evening

622
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: completely and can be something that's a little bit different

623
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: from the routine of you know, dinner, baths, bed that

624
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 1: can kind of get old after a while. Kind of

625
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: wish we had snow to chomp around in, but I

626
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: don't think we've had icing. Right now. I can hear

627
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 1: the ice on my window. It's just I think I

628
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 1: might hear it. It's actually a very nice sound, that's

629
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: what I'm hearing. It's a little like nice to hear

630
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: if I don't have to shovel it. I love snow.

631
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 1: I do love sew and partly snow can help with

632
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: a winter rut too, in the sense that we don't

633
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: have snow cover all year. I know some people are

634
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 1: like in Minnesota, it snows in early December and then

635
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: it doesn't leave until the beginning of April, and so

636
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 1: the snow is not so exciting, But here it comes

637
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 1: and goes, and so that makes it a little bit

638
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 1: more like, Oh, well, we should take advantage of it

639
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 1: here because we may only have, you know, three to

640
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,239
Speaker 1: four total weeks of snow cover in a winter, and

641
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: so it's it's a chance to do something a little

642
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 1: different when it is here. Yes, well, we are interested

643
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 1: in you all sharing your thoughts about the spectrum of

644
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: routine versus ruts and what has helped you get out

645
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: of ruts and maybe what are some of the routines

646
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 1: that you know are ruts but you don't care because

647
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 1: you embrace them. We're totally curious, So please share in

648
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 1: our show notes or on Laura's blog or on our Instagram.

649
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 1: We would love to hear. Great. Well, let's take a

650
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 1: lesson for a lesson a question from Anne who wrote

651
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 1: to Sarah, so, do you want me to read it?

652
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: And then you can answer first yes, Okay, you're good

653
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: at a bridging and I'm not so good for it.

654
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 1: I don't think that's true, but okay, So the just

655
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: here is that Anne is a longtime blog reader and

656
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 1: is thinking about having a third baby. She has a

657
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 1: four year old and a two year old, so that

658
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 1: is of course the time then when people start deciding

659
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 1: are they going to go for number three or not. However,

660
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 1: she is forty and so that puts a little bit

661
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 1: of time pressure on this decisions. She needs to figure

662
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 1: it out in the next year, she says. Her husband

663
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 1: and her are both attorneys, very busy schedule. She's said

664
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: that they might move closer to family to help out

665
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: with the third kid, but she's also hung up on

666
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 1: what the physical toll might be at her body with

667
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 1: her advanced maternal age. As we all laugh at that phrase,

668
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: we all feel young, but you know, we're reminded when

669
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: we have babies. Maybe I'm not as young as we

670
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 1: used to be. She said. Both of her children were breached,

671
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: so she's had two sea sections. She's kind of anticipating

672
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: that the third might wind up being a C section

673
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 1: for their maybe even not for the same reason, but

674
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 1: because she's had two before. The last recovery was pretty rough.

675
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: She's gained a few pounds each time, she's worried about

676
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 1: compounding that problem even more. Obviously, you know forty, there's

677
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: more risks, So she's trying to make the decision. She

678
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: wants to know Sarah's thoughts about it. She says her

679
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: family and friends think we should just go for it

680
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 1: and are dismissive of my concerns and a loving it

681
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 1: will be fine sort of way. But any advice for

682
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: how to go about thinking about this is much appreciated. Well,

683
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 1: I always laugh because I feel like when I wanted

684
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: to have three the people I or when I was

685
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: like really thinking about it, but really I knew I

686
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 1: wanted it. I always ask people who had three, and

687
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, really, that's because I clearly wanted a

688
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: certain answer. So I do feel like if you are

689
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: emailing people with more than two kids about a third baby,

690
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 1: you probably really want one in your heart. And my

691
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 1: feeling is if you feel like you'd be missing out

692
00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 1: by saying no, then go for it, because that can

693
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: be a regret that you might have later. And again,

694
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: if you're like wanting this enough to be weighing the

695
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 1: pros and consists carefully and sending emails to people like

696
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 1: me and Laura, you probably really really do want it,

697
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 1: I will say, and I think this is comforting to

698
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,839
Speaker 1: some that after I had three, and at least up

699
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,280
Speaker 1: until this point and probably hopefully forever, I have never

700
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,840
Speaker 1: wanted more, Like I really did want that third, but

701
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 1: I feel very at peace and I'm like three is

702
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,399
Speaker 1: correct for our family, and like I have never had

703
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,959
Speaker 1: to wrestle with wanting four, so like because you might think, well,

704
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 1: maybe I'll have three, but then like, is it ever

705
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 1: gonna end? Am I always going to want another kid?

706
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: And at least for me, the answer was no, I

707
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 1: wanted a third, I don't want a fourth. Yeah, so

708
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: you can you can definitely feel that way that you, you

709
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 1: you know, felt a distinct difference going from two to

710
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 1: three that after three are like, no, feel good, this

711
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 1: is the right size? Yes, yes, yes, yes, well that's

712
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,879
Speaker 1: that's good to know. So maybe our listener will feel

713
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 1: that way as as well. I agree with Sarah that, yeah,

714
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 1: if you are reaching out to people with three kids

715
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: about their decision, like, then probably it's because you do

716
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 1: want the third. If you were, you know, really thinking

717
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,240
Speaker 1: trying to talk yourself out of it, you'd be reaching

718
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 1: out to people with one who think that that's like

719
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 1: the best thing ever, right, or two and like no, no,

720
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 1: that's great, Like two is the perfect size because you

721
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 1: know that very few people who have three kids are

722
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 1: gonna be like worst decision ever. So you know clearly

723
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 1: they're going to tell you that it was it was

724
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:29,879
Speaker 1: probably a great thing to happen. As for the weight thing,

725
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,240
Speaker 1: I mean, because you know this is if she's worried

726
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: about the I mean, so obviously have I mean, I

727
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 1: had a baby at age forty one, and yes, the

728
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 1: recovery was you know, more challenging at age forty one

729
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 1: than it was at age twenty eight, I can tell

730
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 1: you that. And that was not you know, not dealing

731
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 1: with the C section, which I'm sure is even even

732
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: more so recovering from major surgery at any age. The

733
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 1: one thing I would say is that the pregnancy and

734
00:35:56,280 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 1: birth itself is a very short part of the timeline

735
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 1: that the child will be in your life. So if

736
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 1: that is your major concern, you can know that if

737
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 1: you you know, got pregnant now a year from now,

738
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,399
Speaker 1: you would be on the other side of that, right,

739
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,399
Speaker 1: And sometimes that is helpful to say, Okay, well it's

740
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 1: a year of that and then it will be this

741
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:25,319
Speaker 1: kid in my life, you know, for hopefully, you know,

742
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 1: seventy years at that point. It's a very small part

743
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 1: of it. I think you know this. The weight is

744
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:35,799
Speaker 1: I really wish people would not be as concerned as

745
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 1: they are about you know, a few pounds here and there.

746
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 1: She says, she runs and eats well, and so I

747
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: think if you run and eat well, then you know,

748
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:46,359
Speaker 1: the fact that you were a few pounds over what

749
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 1: your weight was at age twenty is really not you know,

750
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 1: the end of the world. Though Sarah does swear by

751
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 1: weight training right that that gets us back to our

752
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 1: twenty something bodies. I hear from you, I think I

753
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 1: don't know, but I don't know about twenty something. No,

754
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 1: I don't think anything can do that. But I think

755
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: I think weight training can be very effective in helping

756
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 1: with body composition as people age, for many people, maybe

757
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 1: not for all. But I also agree with Laura, like

758
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: my heart hurts, like the idea that like pounds would

759
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 1: would make the determination about like whether you want another

760
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 1: person in your family, like no, no, I would. Yeah,

761
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 1: I mean if it was a health complication, like I

762
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: have friends who had like such dangerous pregnancy complications that

763
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 1: literally it was life threatening, and I am happy that

764
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 1: they don't think they want more because it's like a

765
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 1: safety concern, that's different. But if it's more just like

766
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 1: it was a pain in the butt, like I gained

767
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:36,879
Speaker 1: some weight, like hopefully, hopefully that wouldn't be too much

768
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 1: of a deterrent. Yeah, yeah, I mean, neither of us

769
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: have had C sections, so we can't really speak to

770
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 1: a third recovery from one. And I know that, yes,

771
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 1: three major surgeries can can be rough on your body.

772
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 1: So maybe some of our listeners can can weigh in

773
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 1: on that, or if they have advice for managing sea

774
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:00,399
Speaker 1: section recovery, we'd love to hear from you about that.

775
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 1: But again, it's it's the whole pregnancy and birth and

776
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 1: even the baby years or a limited part of it.

777
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 1: And you know, I know we're all happy with having

778
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,439
Speaker 1: all our kids in our lives, although yes, as Sarah said,

779
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 1: there has to be some stop to it. So I

780
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 1: have not had, you know, a desire for ten. I

781
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 1: can tell you that, so I don't think I'll keep

782
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:22,839
Speaker 1: you not going to keep going forever. And in fact,

783
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: I felt very good with five. You know, I think

784
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 1: at four I was thinking I was good with four,

785
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,840
Speaker 1: but it wasn't that we hadn't you know, closed the

786
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 1: door on it. And then we're very happy we decided

787
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,959
Speaker 1: to have five. So Henry's been wonderful addition to our

788
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 1: lives and I'm excited to see what he's going to

789
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 1: grow up to be. And so, you know, one other

790
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 1: thing we could tell this woman is I mean, given

791
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 1: that she has a two year old, probably if she

792
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:51,399
Speaker 1: does want to get pregnant, she will because that that

793
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 1: shop has clearly not closed up, you know, given that

794
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,839
Speaker 1: was recently open. But you never know for sure. So

795
00:38:57,920 --> 00:38:59,439
Speaker 1: this can be one of those things where you could

796
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: decide to try and you know, see what happens, because

797
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: it might not, but you know obviously it might too.

798
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,720
Speaker 1: And so you know, sometimes we can leave ourselves open

799
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 1: to things, and that's kind of a way of you know,

800
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 1: being embracing what comes. Yes, that makes sense. Well, best

801
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:20,839
Speaker 1: of luck to this listener, and if you ever make

802
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: a decision and want to follow up with us, we

803
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 1: would love to know. Yeah, all right, So love of

804
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 1: the week. So I mentioned the piano at the new house.

805
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:32,359
Speaker 1: I am having so much fun playing that I dug

806
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 1: up many of my old piano books and went and played,

807
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 1: you know, the various pieces that I learned in the past.

808
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:42,319
Speaker 1: I haven't learned anything new, but it's fun just to

809
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 1: play stuff that I already know. I find that relaxing.

810
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 1: It might be more complicated to learn new stuff, but

811
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: the pieces I learned, like as a teenager, the muscle

812
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 1: memory is crazily still kind of there. I must have

813
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 1: practiced enough then that it's built in. So I've been

814
00:39:56,040 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 1: enjoying doing that. So fun mine is DUELINGO. I just

815
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,839
Speaker 1: think it has been a fun pandemic past time I've

816
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 1: been doing Spanish. I'm up to like one hundred and

817
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,879
Speaker 1: fifty days or something crazy like that. Although they let

818
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 1: you use what's called a streak freeze. So I've had

819
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 1: like a couple of streak freezes which i'm which I

820
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,240
Speaker 1: really enjoy because it's like I don't like the pressure

821
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:17,359
Speaker 1: of a streak, so this is the perfect amount of

822
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 1: streaking for me. But no, it's a great app it's free.

823
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 1: It definitely uses a portion of my brain that does

824
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 1: not get exercise the sort of language grammar learning abilities,

825
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:30,880
Speaker 1: and so I don't think it's going to make me fluent,

826
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,359
Speaker 1: but I definitely know more Spanish now than I did

827
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:36,399
Speaker 1: before I started, So it's a great free resource. Yeah,

828
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 1: and that is a good way to get out of

829
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 1: your rut as well as learning a new language or

830
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 1: you know, at least conversationally a few phrases in a

831
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 1: new language. That's something that maybe would help with a

832
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 1: professional rut too. Well. This has been best of both worlds.

833
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 1: So we've been talking about ruts, how to get out

834
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 1: of your rut or how to embrace it as the

835
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: case maybe. And we'll be back next week with more

836
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 1: on making work and life fit together. Thanks for listening.

837
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 1: You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com

838
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 1: or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you can

839
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 1: find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has

840
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,879
Speaker 1: been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us

841
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,280
Speaker 1: next time for more on making work and life work together.