1 00:00:16,897 --> 00:00:29,297 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Before we get started, let's talk about Pushkin Plus. 2 00:00:29,777 --> 00:00:34,937 Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus is a subscription podcast program available on Apple Podcasts. 3 00:00:34,977 --> 00:00:38,377 Speaker 1: Members will get access to exclusive bonus content like my 4 00:00:38,457 --> 00:00:41,137 Speaker 1: weekly bookmarks, where I talk about how I got a 5 00:00:41,177 --> 00:00:43,577 Speaker 1: book agent and what I'm watching on TV that week. 6 00:00:44,177 --> 00:00:47,897 Speaker 1: You'll get uninterrupted listening to many of your favorite podcasts 7 00:00:48,217 --> 00:00:53,137 Speaker 1: like Revisionist History, Cautionary Tales, and The Happiness Lab. Sign 8 00:00:53,217 --> 00:00:55,537 Speaker 1: up for Pushkin Plus on the show page in Apple 9 00:00:55,577 --> 00:01:07,137 Speaker 1: Podcasts or at pushkin dot com. With the New York 10 00:01:07,137 --> 00:01:10,497 Speaker 1: Times bestselling author Britt Bennett was writing her latest novel, 11 00:01:10,777 --> 00:01:14,697 Speaker 1: The Vanishing Half, people would often ask her what's it about. 12 00:01:14,977 --> 00:01:16,417 Speaker 1: I would say that it was a book about how 13 00:01:16,457 --> 00:01:18,817 Speaker 1: black people become black and how white people become white 14 00:01:18,977 --> 00:01:21,417 Speaker 1: and whatever I said that. People would laugh because I 15 00:01:21,457 --> 00:01:25,497 Speaker 1: thought I was joking, but she wasn't. The Vanishing Half 16 00:01:25,617 --> 00:01:28,457 Speaker 1: is a story about black twin sisters from a southern 17 00:01:28,457 --> 00:01:32,257 Speaker 1: Black community. Mallard could be a stand in for any 18 00:01:32,337 --> 00:01:35,937 Speaker 1: historic all black town where folks know each other closely, 19 00:01:36,617 --> 00:01:40,057 Speaker 1: except Britt decides to make the fictional town filled with 20 00:01:40,217 --> 00:01:45,297 Speaker 1: only light skinned black people, so colorism plays a major 21 00:01:45,417 --> 00:01:48,377 Speaker 1: role in the story, where we see one sister decide 22 00:01:48,457 --> 00:01:52,817 Speaker 1: to present as white and the other sister doesn't. But 23 00:01:52,977 --> 00:01:55,657 Speaker 1: for me, it was always thinking about that idea of 24 00:01:56,057 --> 00:01:59,457 Speaker 1: identity as something that is fluid, that's this moving target. 25 00:01:59,497 --> 00:02:02,817 Speaker 1: It's not something that's fixed, it's not inevitable. Brit used 26 00:02:02,817 --> 00:02:05,537 Speaker 1: stories her mother told her about life growing up in 27 00:02:05,657 --> 00:02:10,337 Speaker 1: Louisiana as inspiration for the novel. The novel was released 28 00:02:10,337 --> 00:02:13,777 Speaker 1: the twenty twenty and came at a time where America 29 00:02:13,897 --> 00:02:17,377 Speaker 1: was facing its own racial reckoning. Her novel grappled with 30 00:02:17,417 --> 00:02:21,457 Speaker 1: the complexity of racial identity and how ideals can change 31 00:02:21,457 --> 00:02:25,937 Speaker 1: with each generation. The Vanishing Half explores our racial history 32 00:02:26,217 --> 00:02:41,817 Speaker 1: and how it still affects Black communities today. Welcome to 33 00:02:41,857 --> 00:02:44,817 Speaker 1: Well Read Black Girl, the literary kickback you didn't even 34 00:02:44,897 --> 00:02:48,737 Speaker 1: know you needed. I'm your host, Glory Adam. Each week, 35 00:02:48,777 --> 00:02:51,537 Speaker 1: I chat with one of my favorite authors about their 36 00:02:51,537 --> 00:02:55,337 Speaker 1: work and reading habits, among other things. In my conversation 37 00:02:55,377 --> 00:02:57,657 Speaker 1: with Britt Bennett, we talk about tackling race in The 38 00:02:57,737 --> 00:03:01,417 Speaker 1: Vanishing Half and what her writing and revision process looks like. 39 00:03:02,017 --> 00:03:04,297 Speaker 1: We also talk about what it was like to write 40 00:03:04,337 --> 00:03:07,657 Speaker 1: her first book, The Mothers, a story about a young 41 00:03:07,657 --> 00:03:18,857 Speaker 1: woman returning home years after a family tribe. Thank you 42 00:03:18,857 --> 00:03:21,217 Speaker 1: for doing this, thanks for having me. Yeah, I remember 43 00:03:21,257 --> 00:03:23,337 Speaker 1: you as one of the earliest supporters of the Mothers, 44 00:03:23,377 --> 00:03:25,857 Speaker 1: So it is like a nice full circle moment to 45 00:03:25,897 --> 00:03:28,417 Speaker 1: be able to do these things. I feel like you're 46 00:03:28,457 --> 00:03:30,777 Speaker 1: just like one of the og people that I remember 47 00:03:30,817 --> 00:03:34,697 Speaker 1: working with, like from the very beginning, and I remember 48 00:03:35,017 --> 00:03:38,897 Speaker 1: reading The Mothers and being just so enraptured by your 49 00:03:38,977 --> 00:03:42,257 Speaker 1: voice and the like the skill of your writing. But 50 00:03:42,417 --> 00:03:44,817 Speaker 1: before again into your books, I really want to start 51 00:03:44,897 --> 00:03:47,937 Speaker 1: in the beginning and talk about like Little brit as 52 00:03:47,937 --> 00:03:50,137 Speaker 1: a little girl, Like, do you remember the first thing 53 00:03:50,217 --> 00:03:53,217 Speaker 1: you read as a child. I think the first novel 54 00:03:53,337 --> 00:03:55,457 Speaker 1: I remember reading as a kid was when I was 55 00:03:55,497 --> 00:03:58,657 Speaker 1: in the third grade and I read The Outsiders. My 56 00:03:58,777 --> 00:04:01,337 Speaker 1: teacher gave it to me. I was reading a little 57 00:04:01,337 --> 00:04:03,137 Speaker 1: bit more of an advanced level than the books that 58 00:04:03,177 --> 00:04:05,257 Speaker 1: we were reading, so she was like, here's something that 59 00:04:05,337 --> 00:04:07,817 Speaker 1: might challenge you a little bit more. And I remember 60 00:04:07,977 --> 00:04:10,177 Speaker 1: feeling like a very big deal to read a novel. 61 00:04:11,257 --> 00:04:14,377 Speaker 1: And it was a book that I just really loved. 62 00:04:14,497 --> 00:04:18,377 Speaker 1: I loved this sort of adventure story, and I also 63 00:04:18,417 --> 00:04:21,297 Speaker 1: loved that the author was a teenager herself when she 64 00:04:21,337 --> 00:04:23,257 Speaker 1: wrote that book, and that was something that I think 65 00:04:23,257 --> 00:04:27,017 Speaker 1: always inspired me as a reader, but also as somebody 66 00:04:27,017 --> 00:04:29,297 Speaker 1: who eventually realized that she wanted to be a writer. 67 00:04:29,457 --> 00:04:32,017 Speaker 1: To think that I didn't have to wait till I 68 00:04:32,057 --> 00:04:34,017 Speaker 1: was an adult to write. That was something that I 69 00:04:34,017 --> 00:04:37,297 Speaker 1: could do even at a young age. Yeah, that's amazing. 70 00:04:37,377 --> 00:04:39,777 Speaker 1: I mean, you wrote The Mothers or started writing it 71 00:04:39,897 --> 00:04:42,057 Speaker 1: when you were seventeen, and then when you were in 72 00:04:42,097 --> 00:04:44,937 Speaker 1: grad school you were able to have it published. When 73 00:04:44,937 --> 00:04:48,057 Speaker 1: you look back at that experience of writing so young, 74 00:04:48,177 --> 00:04:49,817 Speaker 1: did you know that you wanted to become an author. 75 00:04:50,857 --> 00:04:52,937 Speaker 1: I think I knew that I wanted to become an author, 76 00:04:53,137 --> 00:04:56,417 Speaker 1: but that was kind of where the certainty ended, because 77 00:04:56,857 --> 00:04:58,497 Speaker 1: you know, I had no idea what I was doing. 78 00:04:58,657 --> 00:05:01,057 Speaker 1: I think that that's true of any time you write 79 00:05:01,097 --> 00:05:03,017 Speaker 1: a novel or any big project. You don't know what 80 00:05:03,017 --> 00:05:05,137 Speaker 1: you're doing when you start it. You know, I wasn't 81 00:05:05,137 --> 00:05:08,177 Speaker 1: seventeen thinking what if this fails and I waste this 82 00:05:08,257 --> 00:05:10,617 Speaker 1: time working on this project, or I wasn't thinking about 83 00:05:10,657 --> 00:05:12,977 Speaker 1: those types of things because I was so young. You know, 84 00:05:12,977 --> 00:05:16,017 Speaker 1: you're not worried about the consequences of what if this 85 00:05:16,097 --> 00:05:18,617 Speaker 1: fails or what if I don't make it. So I'm 86 00:05:18,777 --> 00:05:22,857 Speaker 1: grateful for that type of sort of youthful confidence and 87 00:05:22,977 --> 00:05:25,817 Speaker 1: energy that I had in starting that project. But at 88 00:05:25,817 --> 00:05:28,337 Speaker 1: the same time, I think that my voice has changed 89 00:05:28,377 --> 00:05:31,337 Speaker 1: a lot over time. I think that I'm more capable 90 00:05:31,577 --> 00:05:36,657 Speaker 1: of making more decisive choices and making those choices earlier. 91 00:05:37,097 --> 00:05:38,617 Speaker 1: There were a lot of choices that I made in 92 00:05:38,657 --> 00:05:41,857 Speaker 1: the Mothers that took me five or six years to 93 00:05:41,977 --> 00:05:44,697 Speaker 1: realize that I needed to do something different, And I 94 00:05:44,697 --> 00:05:46,377 Speaker 1: think now that's the type of thing that I would 95 00:05:46,417 --> 00:05:50,857 Speaker 1: notice earlier. So I think my skill set has expanded, 96 00:05:50,937 --> 00:05:53,777 Speaker 1: but I still kind of look back sometimes with envy 97 00:05:53,817 --> 00:05:58,337 Speaker 1: at that type of youthful fearlessness. I think perhaps wanes 98 00:05:58,337 --> 00:05:59,937 Speaker 1: a little bit as you get a little bit older 99 00:05:59,977 --> 00:06:02,257 Speaker 1: and you become more sort of aware of all the 100 00:06:02,257 --> 00:06:06,057 Speaker 1: ways that these types of choices can go awry. Oh yeah. 101 00:06:06,097 --> 00:06:08,937 Speaker 1: I mean, even when I first started Wellward Black Girl, 102 00:06:09,057 --> 00:06:13,217 Speaker 1: I was completely ali us to that world of publishing 103 00:06:13,417 --> 00:06:16,697 Speaker 1: and just the industry itself. And I feel like not 104 00:06:16,817 --> 00:06:20,057 Speaker 1: knowing gives you so much more freedom because you're willing 105 00:06:20,057 --> 00:06:22,897 Speaker 1: to just kind of keep moving forward and be connected 106 00:06:22,937 --> 00:06:25,777 Speaker 1: to your passion. I'm going to move into your books, 107 00:06:25,857 --> 00:06:29,377 Speaker 1: especially with The Vanishing Half, mainly because it offers such 108 00:06:29,417 --> 00:06:33,097 Speaker 1: a unique perspective on just black and white dynamics, like 109 00:06:33,177 --> 00:06:36,577 Speaker 1: how we are when we are perceiving one another, when 110 00:06:36,577 --> 00:06:41,097 Speaker 1: we're trying to project a sense of self, and obviously 111 00:06:41,257 --> 00:06:43,977 Speaker 1: one of the core themes is passing. Can you talk 112 00:06:44,017 --> 00:06:48,337 Speaker 1: about why you decided to really tackle identity in the 113 00:06:48,457 --> 00:06:51,817 Speaker 1: Vanishing Half and again like beyond just like racial identity, 114 00:06:51,857 --> 00:06:54,177 Speaker 1: but just all of it. Why was that important for 115 00:06:54,177 --> 00:06:57,497 Speaker 1: you to bring to the forefront in the book. Yeah, 116 00:06:57,537 --> 00:07:01,377 Speaker 1: I think I was interested in exploring identity, but also 117 00:07:01,417 --> 00:07:04,177 Speaker 1: the idea of performing identity that you kind of spoke 118 00:07:04,217 --> 00:07:07,977 Speaker 1: to in that quote. I was always, i think, interested 119 00:07:08,017 --> 00:07:11,737 Speaker 1: in stories of passing, which are always stories about performance too. 120 00:07:12,057 --> 00:07:15,617 Speaker 1: But I didn't want to write about race, for example, 121 00:07:15,657 --> 00:07:18,377 Speaker 1: in a way that was reductive or fixed. I think 122 00:07:18,417 --> 00:07:21,177 Speaker 1: that's often how we think about race, as you're this 123 00:07:21,337 --> 00:07:23,457 Speaker 1: or you're that. But when I would tell people that 124 00:07:23,537 --> 00:07:25,377 Speaker 1: was working on this book and they would ask what 125 00:07:25,417 --> 00:07:27,017 Speaker 1: the book was about, I would say that it was 126 00:07:27,057 --> 00:07:29,017 Speaker 1: a book about how black people become black and how 127 00:07:29,057 --> 00:07:31,857 Speaker 1: white people become white. And whenever I said that, people 128 00:07:31,857 --> 00:07:34,417 Speaker 1: would laugh because I thought I was just joking. But 129 00:07:34,577 --> 00:07:37,217 Speaker 1: for me, it was always thinking about that idea of 130 00:07:37,657 --> 00:07:41,017 Speaker 1: identity as something that is fluid, that's this moving target. 131 00:07:41,057 --> 00:07:44,217 Speaker 1: It's not something that's fixed, it's not inevitable. And what 132 00:07:44,257 --> 00:07:46,977 Speaker 1: does it mean that we then structure our society around 133 00:07:46,977 --> 00:07:50,457 Speaker 1: these forms of identity. That we have rules relating to gender, 134 00:07:50,537 --> 00:07:53,617 Speaker 1: that we have rules relating to race, that have real 135 00:07:53,657 --> 00:07:56,817 Speaker 1: world implications in people's lives. But at the same time, 136 00:07:56,897 --> 00:07:59,697 Speaker 1: those identities themselves are not fixed, and they're not inevitable, 137 00:07:59,697 --> 00:08:04,177 Speaker 1: and they're not clear, they're not even necessarily knowable. That 138 00:08:04,257 --> 00:08:06,857 Speaker 1: kind of inherent tension, I think was what I always 139 00:08:06,897 --> 00:08:10,217 Speaker 1: became really interested in as I was developing the book. 140 00:08:10,817 --> 00:08:12,777 Speaker 1: Everyone always always like, oh, you know, race is a 141 00:08:12,817 --> 00:08:15,137 Speaker 1: social construct, but it's more than that, Like, I think 142 00:08:15,177 --> 00:08:18,417 Speaker 1: what your book shows the nuance of what race can 143 00:08:18,457 --> 00:08:21,457 Speaker 1: do to a family, to a community. Can we talk 144 00:08:21,497 --> 00:08:25,177 Speaker 1: about the community that you made up and what inspired that. 145 00:08:25,257 --> 00:08:27,977 Speaker 1: I know your mom is originally from Louisiana, but how 146 00:08:27,977 --> 00:08:31,297 Speaker 1: did this town become such a major plot point in 147 00:08:31,337 --> 00:08:34,177 Speaker 1: your book. My mom is from a small kind of 148 00:08:34,217 --> 00:08:37,617 Speaker 1: farmtown Louisiana, and really the book kind of came from 149 00:08:37,657 --> 00:08:40,497 Speaker 1: her telling me about these other communities that she heard 150 00:08:40,537 --> 00:08:43,577 Speaker 1: about growing up that she kind of heard, you know, 151 00:08:43,617 --> 00:08:46,377 Speaker 1: people talking about where people were really obsessed with skin color, 152 00:08:46,817 --> 00:08:49,177 Speaker 1: to the point that they would intermarry within their own 153 00:08:49,217 --> 00:08:52,857 Speaker 1: community to prevent dark skin from sort of creeping in 154 00:08:53,017 --> 00:08:56,377 Speaker 1: and some way down their genetic lines. So as soon 155 00:08:56,377 --> 00:08:58,777 Speaker 1: as she told me the idea of these types of communities, 156 00:08:58,777 --> 00:09:01,577 Speaker 1: these types of towns, I became really fascinated with that 157 00:09:01,697 --> 00:09:04,977 Speaker 1: idea and immediately thought, Oh, this is the setting for 158 00:09:05,017 --> 00:09:08,697 Speaker 1: a novel, and I wanted to lean into it. I 159 00:09:08,737 --> 00:09:12,657 Speaker 1: did some research into these communities and read about some 160 00:09:12,737 --> 00:09:16,337 Speaker 1: of these places, but beyond that, I also wanted to imagine, 161 00:09:17,177 --> 00:09:18,737 Speaker 1: you know, I started to think about it over time, 162 00:09:18,737 --> 00:09:22,777 Speaker 1: almost as this sort of eugenics project, and what does 163 00:09:22,817 --> 00:09:24,657 Speaker 1: it look like to live in a place like that, 164 00:09:24,737 --> 00:09:27,697 Speaker 1: to grow up in a place that has these very 165 00:09:27,817 --> 00:09:31,257 Speaker 1: clearly defined rules that these are not just you know, 166 00:09:31,297 --> 00:09:34,857 Speaker 1: a few people have prejudice views, but it's no, this 167 00:09:34,937 --> 00:09:38,857 Speaker 1: is the pervading ideology of this entire town. So what 168 00:09:38,977 --> 00:09:41,577 Speaker 1: does it mean to be desire and stella to grow 169 00:09:41,657 --> 00:09:44,137 Speaker 1: up in a town like this? And what does it 170 00:09:44,177 --> 00:09:46,697 Speaker 1: mean to return to a place like that after you've escaped? 171 00:09:46,937 --> 00:09:51,337 Speaker 1: So I wanted to lean into the fact that it 172 00:09:51,377 --> 00:09:54,657 Speaker 1: felt kind of mythological, the fact that it felt sort 173 00:09:54,657 --> 00:09:57,537 Speaker 1: of like horror. You know, there was this element that 174 00:09:57,617 --> 00:10:00,297 Speaker 1: was historical, but also this element that felt like, yeah, 175 00:10:00,337 --> 00:10:03,297 Speaker 1: you're seeing a glimpse into something that's really horrific. And 176 00:10:03,337 --> 00:10:06,097 Speaker 1: I wanted to find a way to kind of describe 177 00:10:06,097 --> 00:10:08,537 Speaker 1: both of those modes within the world of the book. 178 00:10:09,137 --> 00:10:11,377 Speaker 1: You do and in such a skillful way. I mean, 179 00:10:11,857 --> 00:10:14,817 Speaker 1: it's the storytelling, yes, but it's like how you create 180 00:10:14,817 --> 00:10:17,537 Speaker 1: the landscape of everything that we're looking at, so the 181 00:10:17,577 --> 00:10:21,497 Speaker 1: reader is an overwhelmed I know. Most recently you wrote 182 00:10:21,497 --> 00:10:26,537 Speaker 1: the introduction to Nella Larson's Passing. He talked about that experience, 183 00:10:26,657 --> 00:10:29,777 Speaker 1: especially after writing The Vanishing Half and studying her work. Yeah, 184 00:10:29,817 --> 00:10:32,417 Speaker 1: it was actually really fun to do a deep dive 185 00:10:32,497 --> 00:10:36,337 Speaker 1: into both her life and also the book. It was 186 00:10:36,377 --> 00:10:37,977 Speaker 1: a book that I read for the first time, I think, 187 00:10:37,977 --> 00:10:41,657 Speaker 1: in college, and a book that I found really fascinating. 188 00:10:41,817 --> 00:10:43,217 Speaker 1: For a lot of reasons that I go into in 189 00:10:43,257 --> 00:10:46,097 Speaker 1: that introduction, but the main I think was the idea 190 00:10:46,177 --> 00:10:50,057 Speaker 1: that there was again this emphasis on performance, this emphasis 191 00:10:50,177 --> 00:10:54,617 Speaker 1: on play in my book. The character's passing is terrified 192 00:10:54,657 --> 00:10:57,577 Speaker 1: that she's going to be caught. But in Nella Larson's book, 193 00:10:57,577 --> 00:11:00,097 Speaker 1: the character is passing is like delighting in the danger 194 00:11:00,137 --> 00:11:02,497 Speaker 1: of being caught, and that's something I think that's surprising 195 00:11:02,537 --> 00:11:05,417 Speaker 1: as you read the book, and that's unexpected. Nella Larson's 196 00:11:05,457 --> 00:11:07,857 Speaker 1: life itself was this life lived along the color line 197 00:11:07,897 --> 00:11:11,697 Speaker 1: and this really complicated and often painful way. So yeah, 198 00:11:11,697 --> 00:11:14,777 Speaker 1: it's always fun to revisit books that you read years ago, 199 00:11:14,817 --> 00:11:17,537 Speaker 1: and also to feel delighted by some of the same 200 00:11:17,577 --> 00:11:20,337 Speaker 1: things and also surprised by things that you read differently 201 00:11:20,337 --> 00:11:22,937 Speaker 1: as time has gone by. What I would love to 202 00:11:22,977 --> 00:11:25,417 Speaker 1: hear from you is just like this idea of the 203 00:11:25,457 --> 00:11:28,937 Speaker 1: coming of age genre. You know, there's a lot to 204 00:11:28,977 --> 00:11:31,097 Speaker 1: be said that there's not enough stories that reflect black 205 00:11:31,097 --> 00:11:35,497 Speaker 1: girlhood and our identities fully. Can you talk to the 206 00:11:35,537 --> 00:11:38,817 Speaker 1: books that really helped you see yourself and help shape 207 00:11:38,857 --> 00:11:42,057 Speaker 1: your vision and even what you're doing in your writing. 208 00:11:42,097 --> 00:11:44,417 Speaker 1: Do you feel like the mothers and the vanish you 209 00:11:44,497 --> 00:11:47,457 Speaker 1: have are included in the coming of age Cannon? Oh, 210 00:11:47,497 --> 00:11:50,777 Speaker 1: that's a big question, I guess to that last part 211 00:11:50,777 --> 00:11:53,577 Speaker 1: of your question, I think, in particular the Mothers, I 212 00:11:53,577 --> 00:11:55,657 Speaker 1: always thought of the Mothers as a coming of age story. 213 00:11:55,937 --> 00:11:58,137 Speaker 1: And I think the moment that that book really opened 214 00:11:58,217 --> 00:12:00,057 Speaker 1: up for me as I was writing it is when 215 00:12:00,097 --> 00:12:01,817 Speaker 1: I started to realize that coming of age is not 216 00:12:01,857 --> 00:12:04,897 Speaker 1: a single moment, that it's a process, and that we 217 00:12:04,897 --> 00:12:07,217 Speaker 1: are all, in a sense, coming of age throughout many 218 00:12:07,257 --> 00:12:10,417 Speaker 1: parts of our lives. So I think originally I thought 219 00:12:10,417 --> 00:12:12,897 Speaker 1: the Bok would just be this one moment and this 220 00:12:12,937 --> 00:12:16,297 Speaker 1: one girl's life that changed everything, and later I realized 221 00:12:16,297 --> 00:12:18,857 Speaker 1: it was more interested in that moment and the moments 222 00:12:18,897 --> 00:12:21,457 Speaker 1: that followed, and the way that that decision that she 223 00:12:21,537 --> 00:12:25,217 Speaker 1: makes as a teenager kind of follows her throughout her life, 224 00:12:25,217 --> 00:12:27,137 Speaker 1: and that she begins to reflect on and think about 225 00:12:27,137 --> 00:12:29,377 Speaker 1: it differently. So I think that that was one way 226 00:12:29,417 --> 00:12:31,497 Speaker 1: I wanted to think about that book, particularly when it 227 00:12:31,497 --> 00:12:34,297 Speaker 1: came to coming of age. But as far as books 228 00:12:34,337 --> 00:12:36,417 Speaker 1: that I read, I mean, I think of a book 229 00:12:36,457 --> 00:12:40,057 Speaker 1: like Sula, which I would maybe I would probably classify 230 00:12:40,057 --> 00:12:42,817 Speaker 1: as a coming of age story. I think that was 231 00:12:42,857 --> 00:12:47,457 Speaker 1: a book that I read and found really fascinating of 232 00:12:47,497 --> 00:12:51,257 Speaker 1: the story about this very complicated relationship between these two 233 00:12:51,337 --> 00:12:53,777 Speaker 1: women as a come of age and later kind of 234 00:12:53,817 --> 00:12:56,537 Speaker 1: reflect on it. I think of something like The Color Purple, 235 00:12:56,817 --> 00:13:00,737 Speaker 1: which again was a book that I read when I 236 00:13:00,817 --> 00:13:03,177 Speaker 1: was I guess a teenager. I mean, I grew up 237 00:13:03,177 --> 00:13:06,137 Speaker 1: in a world where, you know, obviously the film existed, 238 00:13:06,217 --> 00:13:08,937 Speaker 1: and I kind of knew the story from the film, 239 00:13:08,977 --> 00:13:12,937 Speaker 1: but reading book just hit so different. So that was 240 00:13:12,977 --> 00:13:15,017 Speaker 1: another story that I think really meant a lot to 241 00:13:15,057 --> 00:13:18,297 Speaker 1: me when I was growing up. After the Break, more 242 00:13:18,337 --> 00:13:22,337 Speaker 1: with Britt Bennett on her writing practice, workshopping early drafts 243 00:13:22,337 --> 00:13:25,617 Speaker 1: of her work, and the daunting process of doing revisions. 244 00:13:35,497 --> 00:13:38,937 Speaker 1: I'm Glorie Adam and you're listening to well read Black Girl. 245 00:13:39,577 --> 00:13:42,937 Speaker 1: I'm joined today by Britt Bennett, New York Times bestselling 246 00:13:42,977 --> 00:13:48,577 Speaker 1: author of The Vanishing Half and The Mothers. You were 247 00:13:48,617 --> 00:13:50,297 Speaker 1: mentioning your skill set, and it made me think of 248 00:13:50,337 --> 00:13:52,817 Speaker 1: the choice of like the Greek chorus you have and 249 00:13:52,897 --> 00:13:55,137 Speaker 1: the Mothers. How did you come to that decision? Was 250 00:13:55,137 --> 00:13:57,337 Speaker 1: that something you knew early on? Oh, it was something 251 00:13:57,377 --> 00:13:59,937 Speaker 1: that came towards the end of finishing the draft. To 252 00:13:59,977 --> 00:14:03,017 Speaker 1: be honest, I originally thought the book would just be 253 00:14:03,017 --> 00:14:06,257 Speaker 1: told from this third person point of view the entire time, 254 00:14:06,617 --> 00:14:08,577 Speaker 1: And as I was working on an in workshop, I 255 00:14:08,617 --> 00:14:11,257 Speaker 1: started to kind of lean into that sort of choral 256 00:14:11,377 --> 00:14:13,897 Speaker 1: voice from those older ladies at the church. And I 257 00:14:13,937 --> 00:14:15,937 Speaker 1: remember the time when I workshop the book that was 258 00:14:16,097 --> 00:14:19,177 Speaker 1: a sort of polarizing decision, like half of the workshop 259 00:14:19,217 --> 00:14:21,937 Speaker 1: loved it and half the workshop hated it. So I think, again, 260 00:14:21,937 --> 00:14:24,497 Speaker 1: it's the type of thing where I was, you know, 261 00:14:25,017 --> 00:14:28,177 Speaker 1: twenty two, twenty three years old, and the fact that 262 00:14:28,257 --> 00:14:30,457 Speaker 1: half of the workshop hated a choice that I made, 263 00:14:30,537 --> 00:14:34,337 Speaker 1: it didn't really determine at that point, and that's something 264 00:14:34,377 --> 00:14:36,577 Speaker 1: that I'm grateful for that I was, you know again, 265 00:14:36,697 --> 00:14:38,737 Speaker 1: I was young and willing to kind of forge ahead 266 00:14:38,777 --> 00:14:40,457 Speaker 1: even though half of the workshop told me that that 267 00:14:40,497 --> 00:14:43,177 Speaker 1: was a bad idea. And I think that that was 268 00:14:43,297 --> 00:14:45,377 Speaker 1: one of those kind of useful choices that I just 269 00:14:45,457 --> 00:14:48,177 Speaker 1: leaned into. But it sort of became an element of 270 00:14:48,177 --> 00:14:50,377 Speaker 1: the book that I think readers have responded to the most. 271 00:14:50,857 --> 00:14:53,137 Speaker 1: I like the fact that you brought a workshop because 272 00:14:53,457 --> 00:14:56,177 Speaker 1: I've been working more with writers trying to figure out 273 00:14:56,217 --> 00:14:59,137 Speaker 1: their voice, and it comes up so often like how 274 00:14:59,137 --> 00:15:01,577 Speaker 1: do I workshop my work? How do I know when 275 00:15:01,657 --> 00:15:04,297 Speaker 1: to take advice and went to like stick to my 276 00:15:04,417 --> 00:15:08,697 Speaker 1: instincts and you know, really hone my voice. How do 277 00:15:08,817 --> 00:15:11,377 Speaker 1: you know when you have a voice and when to 278 00:15:11,417 --> 00:15:13,977 Speaker 1: stop the workshop being I really trust your intuition on 279 00:15:13,977 --> 00:15:16,377 Speaker 1: a character. Yeah, I think that that is a big 280 00:15:16,457 --> 00:15:20,617 Speaker 1: question that I am constantly asking myself, because you know, 281 00:15:20,657 --> 00:15:23,337 Speaker 1: when you write, you're always in a position of receiving feedback. 282 00:15:23,577 --> 00:15:26,017 Speaker 1: And I've always wanted to be the type of person, 283 00:15:26,097 --> 00:15:29,657 Speaker 1: the type of writer who is open to hearing feedback 284 00:15:29,697 --> 00:15:32,337 Speaker 1: and who isn't just so siloed in my own way 285 00:15:32,377 --> 00:15:35,577 Speaker 1: of thinking that I don't hear any type of external criticism. 286 00:15:35,897 --> 00:15:37,737 Speaker 1: But at the same time, like you said, there has 287 00:15:37,777 --> 00:15:41,137 Speaker 1: to be moments where you follow your instincts and you 288 00:15:41,177 --> 00:15:44,257 Speaker 1: follow your gut. Whenever I'm teaching, I tell my students 289 00:15:44,297 --> 00:15:46,857 Speaker 1: that the workshop is not a democracy. I tell my 290 00:15:46,937 --> 00:15:49,697 Speaker 1: students that you are sort of a dictator in the workshop. 291 00:15:49,737 --> 00:15:52,337 Speaker 1: You're a benevolent dictator, but you're a dictator none the same. 292 00:15:52,777 --> 00:15:55,057 Speaker 1: And you know, you've got to be the person who 293 00:15:55,097 --> 00:15:57,617 Speaker 1: makes that final choice. Even if eleven out of twelve 294 00:15:57,617 --> 00:16:00,097 Speaker 1: of the workshop members think you should do one thing, 295 00:16:00,137 --> 00:16:02,217 Speaker 1: if you feel like you should do something else, then 296 00:16:02,417 --> 00:16:04,777 Speaker 1: you have the right to do that. So I think 297 00:16:04,777 --> 00:16:07,137 Speaker 1: for myself, as I've gotten a little bit deeper into 298 00:16:07,177 --> 00:16:11,417 Speaker 1: my writing career, I've started paying attention to when a 299 00:16:11,497 --> 00:16:14,257 Speaker 1: choice feels right, or when it feels wrong, it's almost 300 00:16:14,257 --> 00:16:16,057 Speaker 1: like I feel it in my body if it doesn't 301 00:16:16,217 --> 00:16:19,737 Speaker 1: seem right on the page, And that's something that I 302 00:16:19,777 --> 00:16:23,337 Speaker 1: try to trust, while at the same time wanting to 303 00:16:23,537 --> 00:16:26,857 Speaker 1: pay attention to feedback, because I think often even if 304 00:16:26,897 --> 00:16:31,057 Speaker 1: somebody's note doesn't lead you in the direction that you 305 00:16:31,097 --> 00:16:34,457 Speaker 1: want to go, sometimes your response to their note can 306 00:16:34,617 --> 00:16:37,417 Speaker 1: lead you in that direction. Like if somebody says something 307 00:16:37,457 --> 00:16:39,857 Speaker 1: to you and you have a reaction to that feedback, 308 00:16:40,177 --> 00:16:42,977 Speaker 1: sometimes that's something that's helpful that will help you realize, oh, well, 309 00:16:43,017 --> 00:16:45,257 Speaker 1: this is what I need to do instead. So I 310 00:16:45,377 --> 00:16:47,297 Speaker 1: try to just sort of soak up whatever I can 311 00:16:47,417 --> 00:16:49,937 Speaker 1: from the criticism. But at the end of the day, 312 00:16:49,977 --> 00:16:51,457 Speaker 1: you know, this is your book. It has to be 313 00:16:51,497 --> 00:16:53,417 Speaker 1: exciting to you. It has to be something that you 314 00:16:53,457 --> 00:16:56,617 Speaker 1: feel really good about. So I try to follow what 315 00:16:56,777 --> 00:16:58,777 Speaker 1: feels fun to me, Like what are the parts that 316 00:16:58,897 --> 00:17:00,937 Speaker 1: jump off the page for me. That's what I try 317 00:17:00,937 --> 00:17:03,377 Speaker 1: to write in the direction of I'm glad you're like 318 00:17:03,697 --> 00:17:07,337 Speaker 1: acknowledging that there is a level of being self aware 319 00:17:07,577 --> 00:17:10,497 Speaker 1: of who you are in order to have that reflect 320 00:17:10,497 --> 00:17:13,977 Speaker 1: on the page in that sense of like whether we 321 00:17:14,017 --> 00:17:16,537 Speaker 1: call it instinct or intuition. You have to know who 322 00:17:16,577 --> 00:17:19,617 Speaker 1: you are in order to be a stronger writer. You've 323 00:17:19,617 --> 00:17:22,497 Speaker 1: described yourself as a rhythm writer, you know, and I 324 00:17:22,537 --> 00:17:24,697 Speaker 1: had never heard that term before. So if that's like 325 00:17:24,697 --> 00:17:27,057 Speaker 1: an actual term, or if that's something you made you 326 00:17:27,177 --> 00:17:30,377 Speaker 1: made up, what do you mean by that? Like, what 327 00:17:30,537 --> 00:17:33,257 Speaker 1: is a rhythm writer? Yeah? I mean I think there's 328 00:17:33,297 --> 00:17:36,257 Speaker 1: often a lot of conversation about do writers have to 329 00:17:36,297 --> 00:17:39,937 Speaker 1: write every day? And again, when I'm teaching, I always 330 00:17:39,937 --> 00:17:42,097 Speaker 1: tell my students, like, no, you don't have to do anything. 331 00:17:42,177 --> 00:17:45,057 Speaker 1: There are plenty of writers I know who will go 332 00:17:45,137 --> 00:17:48,417 Speaker 1: months without writing and then bang out an amazing story. 333 00:17:49,257 --> 00:17:51,817 Speaker 1: But I am not one of those people. So, you know, 334 00:17:51,857 --> 00:17:54,777 Speaker 1: sometimes people get bogged down in rules and at so 335 00:17:54,777 --> 00:17:57,457 Speaker 1: many friends in grad schoold one brilliant friend who loved 336 00:17:57,497 --> 00:18:00,297 Speaker 1: to write at the bar, and that just like broke 337 00:18:00,377 --> 00:18:04,417 Speaker 1: my brain because I would be completely incapable of doing that. 338 00:18:05,297 --> 00:18:08,377 Speaker 1: But everybody's brain works differently, you know. So for me, 339 00:18:08,417 --> 00:18:09,937 Speaker 1: I'm someone that I kind of have to stay in 340 00:18:09,937 --> 00:18:12,577 Speaker 1: a rhythm when I'm working. I try to do a 341 00:18:12,577 --> 00:18:15,137 Speaker 1: little bit each day, even if I can't. If I'm 342 00:18:15,177 --> 00:18:17,657 Speaker 1: only writing a sentence if I'm only writing a paragraph, 343 00:18:17,897 --> 00:18:19,737 Speaker 1: I think of it almost like going to the gem, 344 00:18:19,897 --> 00:18:22,497 Speaker 1: Like once you stop going, it's so hard to get back. 345 00:18:22,857 --> 00:18:25,337 Speaker 1: Versus if you just have kind of a routine and 346 00:18:25,417 --> 00:18:27,297 Speaker 1: you fall into it, you kind of get in that 347 00:18:27,337 --> 00:18:29,777 Speaker 1: habit a little bit more easily. So that's how I 348 00:18:29,777 --> 00:18:32,417 Speaker 1: think of myself. But the biggest thing is just figuring 349 00:18:32,457 --> 00:18:35,577 Speaker 1: out what are the conditions that you need to create 350 00:18:35,697 --> 00:18:38,617 Speaker 1: or can create so that you can work at your best. 351 00:18:38,697 --> 00:18:40,697 Speaker 1: And those conditions are going to be different for everybody, 352 00:18:40,977 --> 00:18:43,537 Speaker 1: but I think it's more about discovering what those conditions 353 00:18:43,537 --> 00:18:46,057 Speaker 1: are for you. I think that's way more important than 354 00:18:46,097 --> 00:18:49,577 Speaker 1: following any type of rules. I recently took a workshop 355 00:18:49,657 --> 00:18:53,217 Speaker 1: with Sheila Penty. Her most recent book is Motherhood, but 356 00:18:53,417 --> 00:18:56,617 Speaker 1: she wrote how should a Person Be? And she have 357 00:18:56,777 --> 00:19:00,337 Speaker 1: this incredible like spreadsheet of how many words she wrote 358 00:19:00,497 --> 00:19:03,017 Speaker 1: a day, Like it was just so massive. But it 359 00:19:03,057 --> 00:19:04,657 Speaker 1: speaks to what you're saying that you have to have 360 00:19:04,697 --> 00:19:08,137 Speaker 1: your own system, your own rules. I imagine you don't 361 00:19:08,137 --> 00:19:14,097 Speaker 1: have some insane spreadsheet. I don't like that. But can 362 00:19:14,137 --> 00:19:17,017 Speaker 1: you talk about revision and how you kind of narrow 363 00:19:17,137 --> 00:19:20,937 Speaker 1: down passages and make sure they're the way you want them. Yeah, 364 00:19:20,977 --> 00:19:23,337 Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's something that I am constantly 365 00:19:23,977 --> 00:19:26,697 Speaker 1: tinkering with and constantly trying to figure out what is 366 00:19:26,697 --> 00:19:28,937 Speaker 1: the best process for myself when it comes to revision, 367 00:19:29,337 --> 00:19:32,377 Speaker 1: because revision is such a different animal than drafting. You know, 368 00:19:32,417 --> 00:19:34,377 Speaker 1: like I think with drafting, it's easy to sit down 369 00:19:34,417 --> 00:19:36,697 Speaker 1: and say, Okay, I'm going to write a thousand words 370 00:19:36,697 --> 00:19:38,817 Speaker 1: one day, because when you're drafting, you're just trying to 371 00:19:38,817 --> 00:19:40,377 Speaker 1: get to the end of that draft, like you're just 372 00:19:40,417 --> 00:19:43,337 Speaker 1: kind of moving in one direction. But revision it's sort 373 00:19:43,337 --> 00:19:47,497 Speaker 1: of this like elastic kind of yo yoing between. You know, 374 00:19:47,537 --> 00:19:50,457 Speaker 1: there's some days where I'm trying to finish a section. 375 00:19:50,537 --> 00:19:52,697 Speaker 1: There are other days where no, I want to go 376 00:19:52,737 --> 00:19:55,497 Speaker 1: back and look at that more closely. There's some days 377 00:19:55,497 --> 00:19:57,977 Speaker 1: where I'm going sentence by sentence. There's something, you know, 378 00:19:58,057 --> 00:20:00,977 Speaker 1: it's it's different in a lot of regards, but I 379 00:20:01,017 --> 00:20:04,257 Speaker 1: think for me, what I am always trying to think 380 00:20:04,257 --> 00:20:07,337 Speaker 1: about in revision is trying to kind of narrow those 381 00:20:07,337 --> 00:20:10,137 Speaker 1: pathways of possibility where the book can go in order 382 00:20:10,177 --> 00:20:13,617 Speaker 1: to end up where I ultimately want to go. Because 383 00:20:13,657 --> 00:20:16,017 Speaker 1: when I'm drafting, anything goes. There are no rules. I'm 384 00:20:16,057 --> 00:20:19,137 Speaker 1: just doing whatever I find interesting. But that's not a 385 00:20:19,177 --> 00:20:22,817 Speaker 1: great book to read. So when it comes to revision, 386 00:20:22,817 --> 00:20:24,577 Speaker 1: I think for me, it's kind of like you're whittling 387 00:20:24,577 --> 00:20:27,417 Speaker 1: away at this like massive block that you have and 388 00:20:27,537 --> 00:20:29,497 Speaker 1: trying to find the shape that's inside of it. That 389 00:20:29,577 --> 00:20:32,777 Speaker 1: makes sense, So I think it really depends on where 390 00:20:32,817 --> 00:20:35,177 Speaker 1: you are in the project. But right now I'm in 391 00:20:35,257 --> 00:20:36,937 Speaker 1: a position where I'm just like, I need to make 392 00:20:37,057 --> 00:20:40,977 Speaker 1: choices because there are like five books inside this book, 393 00:20:41,017 --> 00:20:43,337 Speaker 1: and I need to decide which is the book that 394 00:20:43,377 --> 00:20:46,737 Speaker 1: I'm actually most interested in telling. So that's where I 395 00:20:46,777 --> 00:20:49,777 Speaker 1: am is trying to make those decisions. And once I'm 396 00:20:49,817 --> 00:20:54,017 Speaker 1: able to make like that really huge decision, then hopefully 397 00:20:54,137 --> 00:21:09,057 Speaker 1: these other things will follow. All right, it's sound for 398 00:21:09,057 --> 00:21:14,417 Speaker 1: a rapid by U uh yeah, all right. First one 399 00:21:14,537 --> 00:21:18,537 Speaker 1: is name three items on your desk, A CHR vitamins, 400 00:21:19,577 --> 00:21:21,857 Speaker 1: a bottle of hand sanitizer, and a cup of water. 401 00:21:22,457 --> 00:21:26,377 Speaker 1: I drate vitamins. We love it. Um favorite place you 402 00:21:26,377 --> 00:21:29,697 Speaker 1: have traveled too? Oh I guess Italy. I'm gonna say Rome. 403 00:21:30,177 --> 00:21:32,817 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Rome is a good one. Most memorable moment 404 00:21:32,897 --> 00:21:35,177 Speaker 1: while attending University of Michigan. I think I used to 405 00:21:35,217 --> 00:21:38,257 Speaker 1: always go to Happy Hour with my friends for many, many, 406 00:21:38,337 --> 00:21:40,537 Speaker 1: many hours, and I think that's the thing I remember 407 00:21:40,577 --> 00:21:43,977 Speaker 1: most about going there many many hours at happy Hour. 408 00:21:44,017 --> 00:21:45,977 Speaker 1: I love it started at eleven am. We didn't go 409 00:21:46,017 --> 00:21:48,457 Speaker 1: there at eleven am, but it was a very robust 410 00:21:48,457 --> 00:21:54,137 Speaker 1: happy hour. That's awesome. Yearning for your love or outstanding 411 00:21:54,217 --> 00:21:59,137 Speaker 1: by the gap ba, I'm gonna say outstanding. I'm gonna 412 00:21:59,177 --> 00:22:01,537 Speaker 1: go outstanding. You can't go wrong without seeing me. It's 413 00:22:01,537 --> 00:22:06,777 Speaker 1: like every mood right, okay, So Celastic book Fair or 414 00:22:07,457 --> 00:22:14,417 Speaker 1: Pizza Hut book get I'm gonna say Scholastic book Fair. 415 00:22:14,697 --> 00:22:18,097 Speaker 1: I did love Pizza Head Boocket, but Scholastic book Fair 416 00:22:18,217 --> 00:22:20,977 Speaker 1: was just like a dream every time it came around. 417 00:22:22,217 --> 00:22:24,057 Speaker 1: You know, we're a children of the nineties. I had 418 00:22:24,097 --> 00:22:32,497 Speaker 1: to make sure you can get that in. Thank you 419 00:22:32,537 --> 00:22:34,937 Speaker 1: so much, Brett. I really appreciate you and I can't 420 00:22:34,977 --> 00:22:37,497 Speaker 1: wait to see what you come up with next. Thank you, 421 00:22:37,617 --> 00:22:41,417 Speaker 1: thanks for having me. After the break, I'll be joined 422 00:22:41,417 --> 00:22:44,217 Speaker 1: by the Skims Bridget Armstrong for a chat about what 423 00:22:44,337 --> 00:23:01,497 Speaker 1: she's been reading lately. In February, I had the pleasure 424 00:23:01,497 --> 00:23:04,257 Speaker 1: of being a guest on the Skims podcast Pop Cultured, 425 00:23:04,457 --> 00:23:07,017 Speaker 1: where the host Bridget Armstrong and I talked about the 426 00:23:07,097 --> 00:23:11,537 Speaker 1: upcoming book Queen of Drag, uncovering America's black queer history. 427 00:23:11,857 --> 00:23:14,737 Speaker 1: The book features the first drag queen in the US, 428 00:23:15,057 --> 00:23:18,457 Speaker 1: William Dorsey Swan, who was once a slave. So I 429 00:23:18,497 --> 00:23:21,737 Speaker 1: invited Bridget to join me today on Well Read Black Girl, 430 00:23:22,057 --> 00:23:28,897 Speaker 1: and of course we talked about more books. Hey, Bridget, welcome, 431 00:23:28,977 --> 00:23:31,137 Speaker 1: how are you doing. I'm good, Thanks for having me. 432 00:23:31,577 --> 00:23:34,257 Speaker 1: I'm so good in your own So let's talk about books. 433 00:23:34,457 --> 00:23:37,017 Speaker 1: Tell me about a favorite book that you have and 434 00:23:37,057 --> 00:23:39,577 Speaker 1: why I love this book. I love this writer. The 435 00:23:39,617 --> 00:23:42,537 Speaker 1: book is called Silver Sparrow and it's written by t 436 00:23:42,697 --> 00:23:45,537 Speaker 1: Aery Jones. And a lot of people know about Thierry 437 00:23:45,617 --> 00:23:48,977 Speaker 1: jones more recent book, An American Marriage. This book was 438 00:23:48,977 --> 00:23:52,977 Speaker 1: an earlier book that she wrote and it centers the 439 00:23:53,097 --> 00:23:55,777 Speaker 1: story of the family and the other fat of town. 440 00:23:56,177 --> 00:23:59,537 Speaker 1: So there are two characters in the book and they're 441 00:23:59,577 --> 00:24:03,897 Speaker 1: growing up in the eighties in Atlanta. And one girl, 442 00:24:03,937 --> 00:24:06,577 Speaker 1: one teenager in the book, she thinks that she's like 443 00:24:06,617 --> 00:24:08,657 Speaker 1: in the family, where's her mom? It's her dad, and 444 00:24:08,697 --> 00:24:11,217 Speaker 1: her mom's like this hard working business owner. They're just 445 00:24:11,257 --> 00:24:15,457 Speaker 1: a regular middle class family. And she finds out that 446 00:24:15,537 --> 00:24:19,457 Speaker 1: her dad has also fathered another child around her age, 447 00:24:19,657 --> 00:24:21,937 Speaker 1: and he's involved with that family. I don't want to 448 00:24:21,937 --> 00:24:24,017 Speaker 1: give it all away because it's a really great book, 449 00:24:24,377 --> 00:24:29,177 Speaker 1: but the two girls basically become friends. One of them 450 00:24:29,257 --> 00:24:32,297 Speaker 1: doesn't really know what's going on as far as like 451 00:24:32,337 --> 00:24:35,657 Speaker 1: who the other girl is. But you see how this 452 00:24:35,817 --> 00:24:39,017 Speaker 1: lie that the father is fateful to this one family. 453 00:24:39,337 --> 00:24:42,457 Speaker 1: You see how this lie affects both of the young 454 00:24:42,537 --> 00:24:45,777 Speaker 1: women and affects their mothers, and you see how it 455 00:24:45,817 --> 00:24:48,297 Speaker 1: plays out. I like the book one because I just 456 00:24:48,297 --> 00:24:51,297 Speaker 1: think Terry Jones is a great writer, and she creates 457 00:24:51,297 --> 00:24:54,137 Speaker 1: these characters that feel really real. They feel like people 458 00:24:54,177 --> 00:24:56,657 Speaker 1: you can know, even when you don't necessarily like the 459 00:24:56,737 --> 00:24:59,257 Speaker 1: characters writer, even when they're doing something that you don't 460 00:24:59,257 --> 00:25:02,057 Speaker 1: agree with. But I also like the book because it's 461 00:25:02,097 --> 00:25:05,417 Speaker 1: something that i've heard, like my mother, like my grandmothers 462 00:25:05,457 --> 00:25:09,417 Speaker 1: talk about these men of a certain like era that 463 00:25:09,457 --> 00:25:11,457 Speaker 1: were like, you know, they paid the they were like 464 00:25:11,657 --> 00:25:13,897 Speaker 1: upstanding men who took care of their families, and they 465 00:25:13,937 --> 00:25:17,137 Speaker 1: also did stuff like this where they had a secret 466 00:25:17,177 --> 00:25:19,857 Speaker 1: life that went on for decades. And so it's not 467 00:25:19,937 --> 00:25:23,737 Speaker 1: something that I've seen other writers take on very often. 468 00:25:23,777 --> 00:25:25,657 Speaker 1: I'm sure there are other books that have this dynamic 469 00:25:25,697 --> 00:25:28,337 Speaker 1: in it, but to center that and say like, this 470 00:25:28,417 --> 00:25:30,177 Speaker 1: is a truth, this is a thing that happened, and 471 00:25:30,217 --> 00:25:33,417 Speaker 1: there are lots of people who are products of either 472 00:25:33,497 --> 00:25:36,217 Speaker 1: being the hidden child, the other family on the other 473 00:25:36,257 --> 00:25:38,497 Speaker 1: side of town, and that affects those people and they 474 00:25:38,497 --> 00:25:40,337 Speaker 1: take that with them, and I think this book does 475 00:25:40,377 --> 00:25:43,017 Speaker 1: a great job of showing like the beginnings of that. 476 00:25:43,457 --> 00:25:46,017 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, thank you for sharing that. And it's 477 00:25:46,017 --> 00:25:48,857 Speaker 1: so good to hear that. There are other books in 478 00:25:49,257 --> 00:25:52,217 Speaker 1: her body of work that can be appreciated. Once you 479 00:25:52,257 --> 00:25:55,377 Speaker 1: read American Marriage, go backwards and read her backlists and 480 00:25:55,497 --> 00:25:58,897 Speaker 1: visit all the other stories that she's created and support 481 00:25:58,937 --> 00:26:02,377 Speaker 1: them as well. Thank you so much, Bridget for stopping by. 482 00:26:02,857 --> 00:26:05,257 Speaker 1: You can hear more of our conversation and my latest 483 00:26:05,257 --> 00:26:09,497 Speaker 1: Bookmarks episode exclusively on pushkin Plus. You can hear Bridget 484 00:26:09,617 --> 00:26:13,497 Speaker 1: on Pop Cultured every Tuesday, and I will be joined 485 00:26:13,497 --> 00:26:23,577 Speaker 1: by Tari Jones herself in the coming weeks. Today's conversation 486 00:26:23,577 --> 00:26:28,097 Speaker 1: with Britt Bennett was truly inspirational. She's such a sharp shooter. 487 00:26:28,657 --> 00:26:31,177 Speaker 1: She reminded me that gut instinct is one of the 488 00:26:31,257 --> 00:26:34,497 Speaker 1: greatest tools you can use as a writer. There needs 489 00:26:34,497 --> 00:26:37,257 Speaker 1: to be courage and confidence when producing work you can 490 00:26:37,297 --> 00:26:41,377 Speaker 1: be proud of, and Britt has all of that. The 491 00:26:41,537 --> 00:26:44,777 Speaker 1: voices of Desiree and Stella stayed with me long after 492 00:26:44,817 --> 00:26:49,977 Speaker 1: I closed The Vanishing Half. I was touched by how 493 00:26:50,057 --> 00:26:53,697 Speaker 1: far we can go to create new beginnings or in 494 00:26:53,737 --> 00:26:57,737 Speaker 1: some ways denying our past. The work Britt does in 495 00:26:57,737 --> 00:27:00,497 Speaker 1: The Vanishing Half makes me think of this quote in 496 00:27:00,617 --> 00:27:06,737 Speaker 1: Nella Larson's Passing. It's funny about passing. We disapprove of 497 00:27:06,777 --> 00:27:11,137 Speaker 1: it and at the same time condone it. Its are 498 00:27:11,217 --> 00:27:15,857 Speaker 1: contempt and yet we rather admire it. We shy away 499 00:27:15,937 --> 00:27:19,137 Speaker 1: from it with an odd kind of revulsion, but we 500 00:27:19,297 --> 00:27:25,617 Speaker 1: protect it. Britt Bennetts The Vanishing a Half is out now. 501 00:27:29,937 --> 00:27:32,737 Speaker 1: In our next episode, I'll be joined by Nicole Hannah 502 00:27:32,817 --> 00:27:36,857 Speaker 1: Jones to talk about the sixteen nineteen project book Anna 503 00:27:36,857 --> 00:27:42,057 Speaker 1: about Her. Idol Ida b Wells Well Red Black Girl 504 00:27:42,177 --> 00:27:45,777 Speaker 1: is a production of Pushkin Industries. It is written and 505 00:27:45,857 --> 00:27:50,177 Speaker 1: hosted by me Glory Dam and produced by Scher Vincent 506 00:27:50,337 --> 00:27:55,457 Speaker 1: and Brittany Brown. Our associate editor is Keishall Williams. Our 507 00:27:55,537 --> 00:28:00,337 Speaker 1: engineer is Amanda ka Wang, and our showrunner is Sasha Matthias. 508 00:28:01,697 --> 00:28:06,857 Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Mia Lobell and Leetal Molad. At 509 00:28:06,897 --> 00:28:12,937 Speaker 1: Pushkin thanks to Heather Fane, Carly Migliori, Jason Gambrel, Julia Barton, 510 00:28:13,617 --> 00:28:19,257 Speaker 1: Jen Goera, John Schnars, and Jacob Wiseberg. You can find 511 00:28:19,257 --> 00:28:22,017 Speaker 1: me on Twitter and Instagram at Well Read black Girl. 512 00:28:22,337 --> 00:28:25,217 Speaker 1: You can find Pushkin on all social media platforms at 513 00:28:25,257 --> 00:28:28,257 Speaker 1: pushkin Pods, and you can sign up for our newsletter 514 00:28:28,297 --> 00:28:32,417 Speaker 1: at pushkin dot fm. If you have a question, a recommendation, 515 00:28:32,537 --> 00:28:35,097 Speaker 1: or you just want to say hi, email us at 516 00:28:35,217 --> 00:28:40,337 Speaker 1: WRBG at pushkin dot fm. If you love this show 517 00:28:40,377 --> 00:28:44,577 Speaker 1: and others from Pushkin industry, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. 518 00:28:45,017 --> 00:28:48,777 Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content 519 00:28:48,857 --> 00:28:52,937 Speaker 1: and uninterrupted listening for four ninety nine a month. Look 520 00:28:52,937 --> 00:28:56,697 Speaker 1: for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, and if you're 521 00:28:56,697 --> 00:28:59,977 Speaker 1: already a subscriber, make sure to check out my exclusive 522 00:29:00,017 --> 00:29:03,857 Speaker 1: Bookmark series. You'll hear extended interviews with book club members, 523 00:29:03,937 --> 00:29:07,617 Speaker 1: bookstore owners, and more. And do you get to hear 524 00:29:07,617 --> 00:29:10,937 Speaker 1: what's on my mind, what's all my radar, and of 525 00:29:10,977 --> 00:29:14,817 Speaker 1: course what's on my reading list? Each week To find 526 00:29:14,897 --> 00:29:19,817 Speaker 1: more Pushkin podcasts, listen on iHeartRadio, app, Apple podcasts, or 527 00:29:19,857 --> 00:29:27,497 Speaker 1: wherever you like to listen. Hi, my name is Britt 528 00:29:27,577 --> 00:29:30,337 Speaker 1: Bennett and you were listening to well read Black Girl.