Speaker 1: Wind down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heart Radio podcast.
Speaker 2: If we could only record the pre chat and the
Speaker 2: post chat, that would just be that's the money maker
Speaker 2: because you just go you can say it. Actually it's
Speaker 2: kind of funny.
Speaker 3: Well not that part, but okay, I go, well, it's
Speaker 3: with Jana Kramer and friend Kat says you're the boss
Speaker 3: to Jana and I said yeah, and.
Speaker 2: I go yep, which is true.
Speaker 1: But you just don't usually don't ever do like skirt
Speaker 1: around it.
Speaker 4: Well, no, yeah, today we are and friends yep.
Speaker 2: Glad to be here. Yeah, but then he said, but
Speaker 2: what's his face? Still has his?
Speaker 4: I won't say it.
Speaker 2: We get so many messages all the time. Why is like,
Speaker 2: I don't know why either. Actually going on there, quick
Speaker 2: check up before our amazing guest joins the show. You
Speaker 2: can say hi though, Jason, come in.
Speaker 5: How it is great to be here, Oh Jason.
Speaker 2: We're so happy to have the house.
Speaker 5: Very true.
Speaker 4: I like that we are house.
Speaker 2: We are so excited to have Jason Waller on the
Speaker 2: show with us. And we're going to get into it.
Speaker 2: But how is everyone's easter.
Speaker 5: Good?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was tiring, it was great.
Speaker 4: Speaking of Tyran.
Speaker 2: Did you make everybody happy in your family. We'll see
Speaker 2: we showed up.
Speaker 3: Okay, revisiting therapy and cat will know the real truth
Speaker 3: of Easter.
Speaker 1: It's fine.
Speaker 2: Did you divorce your husband?
Speaker 3: I made it through three days of Disney at thirty
Speaker 3: weeks pregnant, forty one years old.
Speaker 4: I just want high five nights.
Speaker 5: That's very impressive, that's incredible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, fun you guys.
Speaker 3: My ankles were so swollen at the end of the day.
Speaker 3: I felt like I almost got one of those motorized carts.
Speaker 3: But I felt like there's somebody that needed it more
Speaker 3: than me. It was really something, but we did it.
Speaker 3: The happiest place on earth is my bathtub. But my
Speaker 3: kids had the best play.
Speaker 2: You can have that you can do a bath with
Speaker 2: the baby.
Speaker 3: I mean I have been, Okay, I guess third time.
Speaker 3: Everyone's just like when you get to the third y're just.
Speaker 2: I thought you couldn't have a bath with a baby, so.
Speaker 3: I always I never took bats with the other I
Speaker 3: think it's past a certain point.
Speaker 2: Maybe, Okay, I don't.
Speaker 3: We're going to find out because everyone will write to you.
Speaker 2: No no, no, no, no no. I just know they will.
Speaker 3: On Instagram, they'll write to me, all the obi's will
Speaker 3: come out, the secret ob listeners will come out.
Speaker 4: It's fine, it's fine.
Speaker 2: How was your Easter? Well, he has risen. Indeed, he
Speaker 2: has risen. Indeed, it was great. We went over to
Speaker 2: Sarah Bryce's house. We had church. It was lovely. I
Speaker 2: wasn't supposed to have the kids, but it was awesome.
Speaker 2: Mix let me have them. And it was like the
Speaker 2: best weekend ever. And uh it got out there They're like, oh,
Speaker 2: seemingly Alan has met the kids because Jolie. We took
Speaker 2: Jolie to a soccer game, but like all supposed to
Speaker 2: photo of Alan and then and then like the photo
Speaker 2: and then so, yes, he's met the kids.
Speaker 3: And Alan's not going to be where soccer is anyway,
Speaker 3: I know, right.
Speaker 2: But it went great and the kids love him and
Speaker 2: it's been awesome. Good yeah, yeah, good, Okay, David.
Speaker 1: I know now.
Speaker 5: Easter it was fantastic. We actually went to church on Saturday,
Speaker 5: so we had the whole Sunday off and we were
Speaker 5: outside for the first time like all day, eight hours.
Speaker 5: We had two water balloon flights. We went through I
Speaker 5: think like four hundred and fifty water balloons and just
Speaker 5: this was like just acted like a kid and we
Speaker 5: just had the best time a couple of e strike
Speaker 5: hunts and spent time with the kids and the wife
Speaker 5: and just relaxed.
Speaker 2: You've been married for how many years now?
Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, coming up on ten. Our anniversary's ten,
Speaker 5: twelve thirteen.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so coming to Ashley.
Speaker 2: Ashley, we have two babies.
Speaker 5: Two babies. I got Delilah who is five, and Wyatt
Speaker 5: who is geez almost two two in June.
Speaker 3: So that's really been something. Yeah, two year old boys
Speaker 3: or something.
Speaker 5: Yes, it is. He's in that phase right now where
Speaker 5: it's he wants to do everything and if you don't
Speaker 5: let him, he he just loses. So it's it's it's interesting.
Speaker 5: It's a process and I'm learning slowly, but surely that's
Speaker 5: for sure.
Speaker 3: Right around two is when I felt like legend and
Speaker 3: I needed our own couples counselor So I'm going to
Speaker 3: talk to your wife and you just moved here from California.
Speaker 5: Yes, we just got here almost a year ago to date,
Speaker 5: moved from Laguna Beach and absolutely living it out here.
Speaker 5: You know, we came out here to slow our lives
Speaker 5: down and just you know, to get out of the
Speaker 5: rift draft of southern California, and we had.
Speaker 4: The Laguna Beach is just horrible.
Speaker 5: It's beautiful, but it's really it's different, well it's different
Speaker 5: than it is. I mean, it's a great place, the
Speaker 5: best childhood I ever had, but honestly, it's just it's
Speaker 5: just different and it's not the way that I had
Speaker 5: grown up. I mean, just when we moved here, Just
Speaker 5: to put it into perspective, this hasn't happened in twenty
Speaker 5: plus years since I lived there. Within the first twenty
Speaker 5: four hours of us moving into our house, three little
Speaker 5: girls came and knocked on our door and asked my
Speaker 5: daughter to come out and play. And like, that's kind
Speaker 5: of one of those things where I looked at my
Speaker 5: wife and I was like, we made the right decision
Speaker 5: and just kind of have that more wholesome vibe. And again,
Speaker 5: as I go back, I got twenty two family members
Speaker 5: that still live in from Laguna to Coasta Mesa, so
Speaker 5: I'm there often. But I just if we were going
Speaker 5: to do it, we thought the time was now. The
Speaker 5: kids were young. We weren't going to uproot them. If
Speaker 5: we didn't like it, you know, we could move back.
Speaker 5: But also some little bit of backstory or history to
Speaker 5: this is my grandfather actually grew up off of Moors
Speaker 5: Lane in Brentwood.
Speaker 4: I grew up on Moors Lane.
Speaker 5: Let's go, oh my cash. Yeah, and then my whole
Speaker 5: my mom was born in Memphis, and then I got
Speaker 5: three I think three generations or four generations from Tennessee
Speaker 5: on my mom's side.
Speaker 4: So so it feels rooted.
Speaker 2: Is anyone still here though right now or no?
Speaker 5: Yeah? So I have great aunts and uncles who live
Speaker 5: up by Tim's Ford. I have some family in Clarksville
Speaker 5: kind of like scattered around, but yeah, just a few relatives.
Speaker 3: It is very cozy here. People love on each other.
Speaker 5: It is The people are incredible. I mean, I didn't know.
Speaker 5: I'll never forget the drive when I was coming out here.
Speaker 5: So Ashley and the kids and mother in law, they
Speaker 5: all flew out here, and I remember driving with me
Speaker 5: and my dog. It was a little trailer behind like
Speaker 5: with our personal stuff, and I was like going through
Speaker 5: New Mexico, I'm like what am I doing? Like it
Speaker 5: was just like that real like we're just kind of
Speaker 5: broke down and like, dude, I'm literally leaving it and
Speaker 5: it disdn't hit me until then. But honestly, I was
Speaker 5: just asked the other day, you know what I do.
Speaker 5: I want to move back, and I really don't. It's
Speaker 5: almost a grieving process because that's all I've known for
Speaker 5: thirty five years was Orange County.
Speaker 2: Is there a piece of you because of everything that
Speaker 2: you went through? Is does that piece hold on to
Speaker 2: not wanting to go back because of like who you
Speaker 2: were there?
Speaker 5: That's a great question.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 5: I think I've done so much work on myself that
Speaker 5: I've really processed and gone through that where I'm really
Speaker 5: comfortable with where I'm at, like physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually.
Speaker 5: And I think through all that work, it's a lot
Speaker 5: to me the opportunity to make a decision to actually
Speaker 5: be at a place to be like, hey, let's get
Speaker 5: up and move because I never thought that would be
Speaker 5: a part of the process. But that's just a testimony
Speaker 5: of when you put in the hard work, what can
Speaker 5: really come to fruition. Because if I didn't do the
Speaker 5: work I did on myself, I wouldn't never have left there.
Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting too, because one of our friends had
Speaker 2: said this, some of the most healing work that she's
Speaker 2: ever done was going back to the places that broke
Speaker 2: her the most, and also realizing like who you are today,
Speaker 2: Like so when you go back, you have to be
Speaker 2: so proud of who you are versus how you were then.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I did. Ah. I was on a interview yesterday
Speaker 5: and to look at, you know, a kid that was
Speaker 5: struggling severely with addiction, was very lost and just in
Speaker 5: a in a really deep dark place. I mean, my
Speaker 5: addiction drove me not to contemplation, but attempting suicide. And
Speaker 5: just you know, I grew up you have to understand,
Speaker 5: I think, putting that into context, I grew up this happy,
Speaker 5: outgoing kid who loved surfing, skateboarding, snowboarding, was always outdoors
Speaker 5: and a depth of my addiction, it was me by myself,
Speaker 5: you know, in a room, and so it was a
Speaker 5: very lonely, miserable place. And so to be able to
Speaker 5: kind of pause and process through all the treatment centers
Speaker 5: I went through, through all the trials and tribulations with
Speaker 5: the law and just my own internal battles with the
Speaker 5: people I hurt. All this stuff, there was a lot there.
Speaker 5: I always joke like, I'm going to be making amends
Speaker 5: for the rest of my life, just because of all
Speaker 5: the destruction I did, but to actually really be honest
Speaker 5: with myself, like I'm so proud of where I am
Speaker 5: at today, like to be able to look in the
Speaker 5: mirror and to be happy with what I see. I'm
Speaker 5: comfortable in my own skin. And for years and years,
Speaker 5: I never was in that spot. And you know, after
Speaker 5: doing so much work, I was able to actually identify
Speaker 5: that I struggled with addiction and alcoholism way before I
Speaker 5: ever picked up the drink or the drug, and that
Speaker 5: you know, twelve or thirteen years old, I had struggled
Speaker 5: severely with OCD to the point where I'd washed my
Speaker 5: hands till they would bleed, and I'd have to wear
Speaker 5: deopren gloves at night, and I'd have to put you know,
Speaker 5: put them in with niaspoorne in them to let my
Speaker 5: hands heal. But on the outside, so that was what
Speaker 5: was going on behind closed doors. But on the outside,
Speaker 5: I was the popular kid. I was always good at
Speaker 5: sports and kind of had to live this double life,
Speaker 5: which ultimately led me to you know, even with seeing
Speaker 5: psychiatrists and therapist and having really good support, I got
Speaker 5: a much more alleviation from substances, and it was That's
Speaker 5: what I was using as my solution, was alcohol, right
Speaker 5: to take away that pain and what I had felt,
Speaker 5: even though I was seeing doctors. And but again at
Speaker 5: twelve thirteen, how are you able to, you know, not
Speaker 5: knowing what we know today, how you able to try
Speaker 5: to process that type of stuff at that age? And
Speaker 5: so I never was able to get really fully open
Speaker 5: and honest. And so it's been a journey.
Speaker 2: You know, it's for those people that don't know the journey.
Speaker 2: How long were you an active addiction?
Speaker 5: Oh God, I'd say I really started struggling about sixteen
Speaker 5: or seventeen years old, and then it that when the
Speaker 5: show started, I was shortly thereafter. So I think I
Speaker 5: started filming probably when I was like seventeen, Laguna Beach,
Speaker 5: and then it went from sixteen to I mean bad
Speaker 5: until twenty three. Was able to get sober July twenty third,
Speaker 5: twenty ten, had five years of sobriety, and then went
Speaker 5: out on pharmaceutical synthetic grade meth aka adderall and that
Speaker 5: took me down really, really bad, to the point of
Speaker 5: where on and off it wasn't like a three year
Speaker 5: benders like I'd have a few months sober. I just
Speaker 5: wasn't willing to get open and honest. But that landed
Speaker 5: me at the first floor in Hook Hospital Detox. You want,
Speaker 5: Ashley was giving birth to Delilah on the third or
Speaker 5: fourth floor, and.
Speaker 2: So I saw that in our video that we did
Speaker 2: and that was like, as when you look back now,
Speaker 2: I mean, now you can show your daughter, Okay, this
Speaker 2: is you know your daddy is healthier, But is there
Speaker 2: a piece of view that struggles with that knowing that
Speaker 2: you weren't there for your wife in that moment.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was a very.
Speaker 2: Like how do you make amends with that with yourself?
Speaker 5: I guess or I mean forgiveness is one of the
Speaker 5: most powerful tools, right and I can't hold onto those
Speaker 5: types of things. I have to. I believe your greatest
Speaker 5: setbacks so the greatest opportunity for your comeback. And you
Speaker 5: know it's looking it's so crazy to think that your
Speaker 5: biggest deficits are your greatest assets, and like that is
Speaker 5: a big motivating factor. Like even though I was physically there,
Speaker 5: literally went from the first floor up the elevator to
Speaker 5: watch my daughter be born. But you and that's how cunning,
Speaker 5: baffling and powerful addiction is. You'd think that would be
Speaker 5: enough to stop. But I didn't actively arrest the disease
Speaker 5: or get stabilized right. I was in detox for two days.
Speaker 5: I went home with the family and back at it
Speaker 5: again four or five days later. And it was about
Speaker 5: a six month on and off process where I actually
Speaker 5: was finally intervened on and I had to go back
Speaker 5: into treatment. I mean, I did the full thing that
Speaker 5: I needed to do.
Speaker 2: Is that when it was over, did you still go
Speaker 2: back again?
Speaker 5: That was when it was really over. That was kind
Speaker 5: of the real surrender. And then kind of the to
Speaker 5: give you the full scope of everything is right after that,
Speaker 5: like a little bit long, like probably I don't know.
Speaker 5: Nine months down the road, the Hills came back and
Speaker 5: there's an opportunity to come back on television and again,
Speaker 5: as I thought, this would be a really good opportunity
Speaker 5: to share our story. And I think by expressing vulnerability
Speaker 5: at creates humility and it allows an opportunity for people
Speaker 5: to connect. And actually had her own story and I
Speaker 5: had my story, and I thought this would be really powerful.
Speaker 5: But it was a huge decision because we're like, we
Speaker 5: love our life where it's at. We want to really
Speaker 5: go and do this, but I believe that it was
Speaker 5: kind of God's opportunity from being who I used to
Speaker 5: be to show how much I had changed. Because even
Speaker 5: that relapse and stuff happened, I don't discredit all the
Speaker 5: work that I've done. I was a different person still,
Speaker 5: and I think that was just a part of that journey.
Speaker 5: And so I ended up experiencing just a lot of
Speaker 5: a lot of my own stuff came up again, insecurities,
Speaker 5: I was overweight, you know, and just going back on television,
Speaker 5: it was just, you know, just image, right, self image
Speaker 5: was just kind of something I was struggling with. And
Speaker 5: so we were already shooting and then that stuff started
Speaker 5: to percolate. I did not reach out to not talk
Speaker 5: to anybody, and I'd taken a pill I drank, and
Speaker 5: then I called doctor Drew and got open and honest.
Speaker 5: And so that was a huge difference, Right. I'm not
Speaker 5: justifying my me doing that, but I have the tools
Speaker 5: and the resources. I should have reached out to somebody
Speaker 5: way before I ever picked up. And because a relapse
Speaker 5: manifest way before you're actually picking it up, it's like
Speaker 5: the dominoes falling. And so at that point I got
Speaker 5: open and honest, and I started talking about it right
Speaker 5: away because I did not want it to go down
Speaker 5: that road, and so it was I call it a lapse,
Speaker 5: if you will. If that didn't happen, i'd have over
Speaker 5: five years, But I have three years of sobriety now,
Speaker 5: and that was the last time that that had ever happened.
Speaker 2: When they say in what the meetings, like, you realize
Speaker 2: your life became has become unmanageable. You basically got intervened.
Speaker 2: So a lot of times when they say, like, interventions
Speaker 2: don't work because you're not ready yet, right, So was
Speaker 2: there a moment where you're like, what made your life
Speaker 2: go okay, it's unmanageable? Like obviously because it's like what
Speaker 2: the people were saying to you in the intervention. Or
Speaker 2: was it just like because I've been told that his
Speaker 2: interventions don't work that well because they're not ready yet.
Speaker 5: It's every different strokes different folks, right, And I think
Speaker 5: if you have the right team and the right support,
Speaker 5: I think you can really help navigate that into getting
Speaker 5: people and guiding them because a lot of people that
Speaker 5: are in those states are literally at a place so
Speaker 5: they've lost the right to make their own decisions, so
Speaker 5: they don't even know what's right or not. So I'll
Speaker 5: share with you what really when I call my entering
Speaker 5: into recovery was back in twenty ten, because you have
Speaker 5: to remember, had everything society says amazing, whether it's notoriety, fame, access,
Speaker 5: all these different things, and you know, I hated life.
Speaker 5: I mean I tried taking my own life. And I'll
Speaker 5: never forget the moment, which I call my moment of clarity,
Speaker 5: when I was sitting in a therapist's office just like
Speaker 5: this with my mom and dad. My mom and dad
Speaker 5: looked across from me. This is We've done this a
Speaker 5: hundred of times. There was nothing that was unique about this,
Speaker 5: but there was something happened here. My dad just looked
Speaker 5: at me, and I've never seen him breakdown besides when
Speaker 5: his mom had passed away, and he just looks across
Speaker 5: and he goes, Jason, we don't know what to do anymore.
Speaker 5: You know, our marriage is suffering. The family is just
Speaker 5: a complete that we were totally lost, and Mom and
Speaker 5: I weigh Mom and I lay in bed like two
Speaker 5: planks of wood, waiting for the phone call that you're dead.
Speaker 5: And whatever that was, there was something that came very
Speaker 5: clear to me, and that became my motivating factor. Is like,
Speaker 5: I didn't care enough about myself to want to do
Speaker 5: it before I taking my life, and so it's kind
Speaker 5: of like what else is there to look for? But
Speaker 5: thank God for the family dynamic that I had had
Speaker 5: and the parents that I had had growing up in
Speaker 5: just that sense of respect, and they became my motivating factor.
Speaker 5: And so that was the moment where I really transitioned.
Speaker 5: And then, you know, months down the road, after I'd
Speaker 5: committed myself, I was open, I was willing, I was
Speaker 5: willing to take direction. I got honest. You know, after
Speaker 5: my life started to change. About six months down the road,
Speaker 5: I really saw that this was something I wanted to
Speaker 5: do for myself. And that's where my real journey started.
Speaker 5: And so every situation is different, Every situation is unique.
Speaker 5: There is not a one size fits all model and
Speaker 5: it's a very individualized process. And so like again, is
Speaker 5: how I got there maybe different than how you would
Speaker 5: have gotten there, right, And so it's taking that into
Speaker 5: account and looking at people's background, their history, their you know,
Speaker 5: the environment and the things that had happened to them
Speaker 5: as their pre genetic disposition there's so many different things
Speaker 5: that can go into effect with it.
Speaker 2: And well you kind of said too like a lot
Speaker 2: of times people are like great childhood, the wounds and
Speaker 2: the trauma, but sounds like you had a great childhood too,
Speaker 2: So it's like, well, then, why why did this happen?
Speaker 2: Or how did I do this? Or like trying to
Speaker 2: find that like why I must have been frustrating too.
Speaker 5: Well, I'm Cherokee, German and Irish. I should have had
Speaker 5: a stamp on the wound when saying this kid cannot
Speaker 5: use anything, but no, they're the pre genetic disposition of
Speaker 5: my family is half my family struggles with addiction in
Speaker 5: our mental health. So it's like again, as I had,
Speaker 5: that's what's I didn't have any of that crazy childhood
Speaker 5: trauma or you know, the environmental stuff like I had
Speaker 5: a very if anything, I had a very amazing childhood.
Speaker 5: And so it's where it wasn't really didn't line up,
Speaker 5: but struggling with the mental health and stuff that that's
Speaker 5: now where it makes a clear picture is that was
Speaker 5: kind of outside the context and through doctor Amen, who
Speaker 5: I am starting to work with now, I had found
Speaker 5: out that I had had potentially had pandas, which is
Speaker 5: basically a PDA. I forget the acronym of what it is,
Speaker 5: which I should know that, but it's basically caused by
Speaker 5: strep throat, which is a piece that actually will attack
Speaker 5: a part of your brain that can trigger OCD. And
Speaker 5: had I known that a long time ago, who knows
Speaker 5: what have kind of would have happened. But it's it's
Speaker 5: crazy to kind of see how I went down and
Speaker 5: navigated that wrote as a young adolescent.
Speaker 3: So when you're young, and I'm glad you mentioned your parents,
Speaker 3: because I was. That was one of my questions, like
Speaker 3: where were they in all of this and how active
Speaker 3: were they and when, like when was the first time
Speaker 3: that they noticed anything like the hand washing all the things.
Speaker 5: My parents are very involved. So I mean my mom likes,
Speaker 5: right when she saw me, she saw my hands and
Speaker 5: she's like, what the what's because I'd go like this
Speaker 5: and they'd just crack and they'd just bleed and stuff,
Speaker 5: and so she's a she's psychiatrist. I mean, they were
Speaker 5: part of that whole process. And I mean I started
Speaker 5: seeing somebody at twelve thirteen years old, whenever it was
Speaker 5: that timeframe when I was in there and they did
Speaker 5: everything that they possibly couldn't what they were equipped with,
Speaker 5: and they were along that ride in that process, and
Speaker 5: you know, and I was even a part of it.
Speaker 5: And that's how close we were. At sixteen, sixteen and
Speaker 5: a half years old, when I went to Provo, Utah
Speaker 5: to wilderness camp into a boarding school. I was wasn't
Speaker 5: like I was kidnapped in the middle of the night.
Speaker 5: I mean I made that decision with them, like hey,
Speaker 5: I'm kind of going down the wrong road, like let's
Speaker 5: course correct this. But after being out there for a
Speaker 5: little bit of time, I was able to manipulate my
Speaker 5: way back and being like, yeah, this ain't the right fit,
Speaker 5: let's get back. And so and that's where they struggled,
Speaker 5: is they you know, wherever there's an alcoholic or an addict,
Speaker 5: there's a codependent and sometimes are just as sick, if
Speaker 5: not sicker. And my parents were really harming me in
Speaker 5: areas when they thought they were doing good, like not
Speaker 5: to their own acre. They you know, they didn't have
Speaker 5: the knowledge, and so when they were they were throwing
Speaker 5: pillows when I really should have fallen in certain areas,
Speaker 5: and that progressively got worse. But also then fast forwarding through,
Speaker 5: you know, going on television. It's like at eighteen years old,
Speaker 5: when you're the most impressionable and the most impulsive, like
Speaker 5: and you're an adult, there's only so much control they have, right,
Speaker 5: and so we had instant success. And so like usually
Speaker 5: what your parents have some type of financial restraint on
Speaker 5: you to a degree if you're going to college or
Speaker 5: different things, they can kind of, you know, manage that process.
Speaker 5: And it was like either join me or ziya. Yeah,
Speaker 5: and so that's kind of how you know, they just
Speaker 5: I respected them, but I was also I was super
Speaker 5: super super sick, and all I cared about was the
Speaker 5: next drink and the next drug.
Speaker 2: When you talked about amends in the show, is there
Speaker 2: anyone did you have to have amends with a lot
Speaker 2: of people from the show?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I made amends. I wish I could talk to
Speaker 5: you about something that we all just did, but I
Speaker 5: can't right now. There's something there's something cool coming out,
Speaker 5: but I can't say anything about it. But I've made
Speaker 5: amends to say every girlfriend on the show's there was
Speaker 5: a few.
Speaker 2: Few, were there any that didn't accept the amends?
Speaker 5: I think the thing that people don't realize is like
Speaker 5: when I was the drunkenrol when I was drinking and stuff.
Speaker 5: That's that's what That's what it was. But also I
Speaker 5: think when I was sober. When I was sober, people
Speaker 5: got to see who I really was so and I
Speaker 5: don't think the media or the viewers of the show's
Speaker 5: ever got to see that other side. And so I
Speaker 5: think even like when I've reconnected with like Kristen and
Speaker 5: Steven and all the people that I have over these
Speaker 5: last few years are just like, God, this is the
Speaker 5: guy that we knew, you know what I mean, it
Speaker 5: was just you were lost and and so I think
Speaker 5: that the short answers know that they were just they're
Speaker 5: really happy and proud to see where I'm at today.
Speaker 5: And I think, honestly they're more surprised and shocked how
Speaker 5: much I've changed because it was pretty bad.
Speaker 3: Well it's also twenty years ago, right, almost twenty Like,
Speaker 3: I mean.
Speaker 5: You're started, Yeah, I'm thirty six now.
Speaker 3: I mean it's they've all changed too, Yeah, yes, yes,
Speaker 3: a lot of grace, I would assume, Yes, everyone's growing journey.
Speaker 2: I think that with the amens too. I think it's
Speaker 2: a beautiful thing because it's not like you're like I've
Speaker 2: had to make amends with certain people, and I've even
Speaker 2: said to them, I'm not asking for you to say
Speaker 2: it's okay, or I forgive you or any of those things.
Speaker 2: I'm just telling you, like you know that I'm sorry
Speaker 2: I handle this wrong, that was wrong with me. No
Speaker 2: excuses are made. And you know, the person that I
Speaker 2: did do this too a couple of months ago, they're like,
Speaker 2: it's okay.
Speaker 5: I'm like, no, no, it's not okay, you know, but no,
Speaker 5: it's take it's keeping your side of the street clean, right,
Speaker 5: and it's taking ownership and accountability. And I love I
Speaker 5: mean the way that I approach amends is most identical
Speaker 5: to that is I take full ownership and accountability for
Speaker 5: what I did. I'm not justifying my actions, but whatever
Speaker 5: I can do to make it right and better, please
Speaker 5: let me know, you know. And it's it's sometimes and
Speaker 5: I've had trust me over the course of time. There's people.
Speaker 5: Not everybody's responded as gracefully. Some people just are like thanks,
Speaker 5: but no thanks, you know. But I'd say more so
Speaker 5: than not, people have been very receptive to it. But
Speaker 5: for me and my process and my recovery program, it's
Speaker 5: just keeping my side of this streakly and I have
Speaker 5: no control or I can't have an expectation on the
Speaker 5: outcome of it. That's not why I'm doing it. It's
Speaker 5: really to do the work and to make things right.
Speaker 2: So right now, you're very which I love. That's how
Speaker 2: because we met at Jason and I met at an
Speaker 2: airport in LA and we ended up talking the entire flight,
Speaker 2: like the only time I ever took a middle seat, right,
Speaker 2: Cat ye yeah, Kin's like, oh yeah, I get the window.
Speaker 5: I'm like, oh, we're here reading a book while they
Speaker 5: talk it all the time.
Speaker 2: But it was so nice just to connect with someone
Speaker 2: who was so open and vulnerable, and I loved hearing
Speaker 2: your story and getting to know you. And since that flight,
Speaker 2: I've been able to be a part of some of
Speaker 2: the stuff that you're doing with mental health, and I
Speaker 2: just I love what you're doing, and I appreciate what
Speaker 2: you're doing because you're helping a lot of people and
Speaker 2: you're going to help even more with the doctor, amen
Speaker 2: and everything else that you're doing. But you know, because
Speaker 2: you are still in recovery right every day is a
Speaker 2: new day, and it's something that you have to continue
Speaker 2: to work on. Is there a piece where sometimes you
Speaker 2: feel like what sometimes makes you feel like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm slipping a little bit, and like,
Speaker 2: how do you kind of stay back on track?
Speaker 5: Great question. I love that I've developed and built a
Speaker 5: program by looking at it from structure and consistency creates safety.
Speaker 5: And I think if you have kids that you can
Speaker 5: you can kind of look at that as the same
Speaker 5: thing when a kid's on routine, he wakes up as
Speaker 5: his morning breakfast, he has his nappy, he's usually typically
Speaker 5: pretty good, and the same thing with adults. And so
Speaker 5: I've incorporated that within my life. And so to answer
Speaker 5: your first question, is having that connection with myself when
Speaker 5: I'm getting overwhelmed or when I'm stressed, being able to
Speaker 5: identify and what that looks like. I always believe it's
Speaker 5: I live like a triple A modality. It's awareness, acceptance,
Speaker 5: in action. If I'm not aware of what's going on,
Speaker 5: I can't accept it. If I can't accept it, I
Speaker 5: can't take action. And so it's recovery for me. It's
Speaker 5: a daily routine, right, and so in the morning, I
Speaker 5: wake up, I do a morning meditation, I read the Bible,
Speaker 5: I read a daily devotion, I do a gratitude list
Speaker 5: of three things I'm grateful for, but not only what,
Speaker 5: but why, because that's where really the meat lies. And
Speaker 5: then I do some form of exercise, whether it's going
Speaker 5: to the gym, whether it's take my dog for a run.
Speaker 5: But I get outside, I get some son, I get that.
Speaker 5: That's kind of how I always start my morning. And
Speaker 5: then sometimes I would incorporate that with I have Bible
Speaker 5: City that I do, or I'll go to meetings, and
Speaker 5: then I go about my day. And then at the
Speaker 5: end of the day, which I think is one of
Speaker 5: the most important things that I've done, is I do
Speaker 5: an inventory, kind of like what we're talking about with
Speaker 5: making amends. I do that with myself. I do a
Speaker 5: check in. I'm like, hey, where did things go right,
Speaker 5: and where did things go wrong? And what do I
Speaker 5: need to do to clean up If there's anything that
Speaker 5: I did that I need to take ownership for clean
Speaker 5: that up, but also acknowledge the successes that I did
Speaker 5: and the achievements that I made for the day, because
Speaker 5: oftentimes I think we overlook that and giving myself kudos,
Speaker 5: But what that does is allot to me an opportunity
Speaker 5: of a fresh morning that next morning, and so I
Speaker 5: think that's what is key is especially with addiction, there's
Speaker 5: a big difference between being abstinence of drugs and alcohol
Speaker 5: versus living a life and recovery. And it's one thing
Speaker 5: just just to white knuckle it and be a part
Speaker 5: of that process. But there's a difference when you're working
Speaker 5: in programming. It doesn't mean I'm perfect. No, I still
Speaker 5: have my moments. I still outlash and stuff like that.
Speaker 5: But I have a support system. I still go to therapy.
Speaker 5: I've done this for years now on a weekly basis.
Speaker 5: I still see a therapist. I'm plugged into a church.
Speaker 5: I have three or four guys that hold me accountable.
Speaker 5: I have my Bible study that I can be totally
Speaker 5: open and connect with. And like coming in here, like
Speaker 5: even saw me deep. You're like taking deep breaths. It's
Speaker 5: just because this week's been overwhelming and so like I come.
Speaker 5: I know, like breathing really helps. It's just stuff that
Speaker 5: I've done over the course of time. It's funny that
Speaker 5: people will pick up on it, but it's just how
Speaker 5: I operate now, you know, And and it's communicating about that,
Speaker 5: you know, Like when it's just coming in. It's I
Speaker 5: try not to like when people ask like how's it going,
Speaker 5: It's like I try to really say, like what's going on,
Speaker 5: as opposed like I'm good, I'm great, family is amazing,
Speaker 5: it's like been overwhelming, you know, like and life's very
Speaker 5: full right now and I'm very grateful. But that's I
Speaker 5: think it's the communication factor is is huge and detrimental.
Speaker 5: The thing that kept me sick for so long was dishonesty.
Speaker 5: That was with myself, not only with people around me,
Speaker 5: but I was the person I was hurting most was
Speaker 5: me and again as I still fall short. But you know,
Speaker 5: I think today is is I take ownership in that,
Speaker 5: and I know I love the life I have today
Speaker 5: and so like I want that, I want to continue that.
Speaker 5: I didn't love the life I had for many years
Speaker 5: and people on the outside people be like, god, I
Speaker 5: want that life potentially, not when I was getting arrested
Speaker 5: in all these other things of that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was a hard when that was happy.
Speaker 5: I'm not gonna lie the by products prior to that
Speaker 5: or even as you know, in just growing up, like
Speaker 5: when I was young, twelve thirteen, fourteen years old, I
Speaker 5: just remember people like you have a great life, like
Speaker 5: you don't know. It goes on the en closed stories.
Speaker 5: And I think that's the other piece too, is is
Speaker 5: everybody struggling with something. And let's say, one of the
Speaker 5: biggest things to my recovery is service is giving back.
Speaker 5: I try to do a lot of giving back.
Speaker 3: So Ashley, does Ashley also seek support because I know
Speaker 3: it takes a village to help an addict in recovery.
Speaker 5: Yes, so Ashley, actually she does, and she was instrumental
Speaker 5: in me getting the help that I needed. And again
Speaker 5: that goes back to one of the questions you were
Speaker 5: talking about before, is like what was you know, what
Speaker 5: took place in that intervention and is people setting boundaries
Speaker 5: and and her being able to take care of herself
Speaker 5: because she got so sick in her own ways with
Speaker 5: codependency and enabling that she had lost sight of who
Speaker 5: she was. I mean she literally will tell you she like,
Speaker 5: I didn't know what color I liked. I mean, I
Speaker 5: didn't know what food I like. I mean that's how
Speaker 5: her her Her addiction was my addiction. She was like
Speaker 5: addicted to the addict. And so yes, she again weekly therapy,
Speaker 5: does groups. She's actually now running and is the face
Speaker 5: of the Family Recovery Foundation, which is for people that
Speaker 5: are directly impacted by the disease of addiction. So it's
Speaker 5: a clinically led support group, so it's clinicians that are
Speaker 5: there to bring oversight and add value to people that
Speaker 5: were in her shoes. And so she runs out on
Speaker 5: a weekly basis, and she's really she's actually really like
Speaker 5: trying to make a push in that area. I'd say
Speaker 5: that's one area that's deficient in the recovery community, is
Speaker 5: for those that are directly impacted. And I'm supporting her
Speaker 5: in that from a legacy piece. For me is because
Speaker 5: when I was struggling, I had all the resources at
Speaker 5: all these people, all these places to go and you know,
Speaker 5: and keep in mind, I'm Ashley as a newborn. There's
Speaker 5: you know, all the things prior to leading up to that.
Speaker 5: I mean, she was putting her head on my heart
Speaker 5: every single night to see if I was still breathing.
Speaker 5: My heart was beating, like all these things that I
Speaker 5: don't witness, plus the verbal abuse and just the thing
Speaker 5: that go along with addiction. And it's like I come
Speaker 5: out and it's like, yeah, you're supposed to be good
Speaker 5: ready for me to come home, and it's like that's
Speaker 5: just not the case. They had to endure so much
Speaker 5: and there's so many people that are affected by all
Speaker 5: of that that there's not enough being done because it's
Speaker 5: one thing again, there's great like on site which is
Speaker 5: here in Tennessee, a great program and stuff like that,
Speaker 5: but one is a lot of people can't afford that,
Speaker 5: Or two is what are you doing for continuation after that? Right?
Speaker 5: And I think alan On and Code of Meetings are
Speaker 5: all really good, but how can you kind of boost
Speaker 5: that on a steroid level with like I think adding
Speaker 5: a therapist, right and getting some clinical oversight, And so
Speaker 5: I'm hoping that that will kind of take off. And
Speaker 5: that's what her envision is is because she's like, there's
Speaker 5: so many people that just are left to their own
Speaker 5: devices with this, and it's just not fair.
Speaker 3: So my dad was addicted my whole life. And I'll
Speaker 3: try to detach so I don't get emotional, but my
Speaker 3: mom was like wildly codependent and like an enabler, and
Speaker 3: he passed away a year ago July.
Speaker 4: Trying trying, we do.
Speaker 6: But I've watched her try to untangle for like the
Speaker 6: last like year and a half and it's a mess,
Speaker 6: like she never got the apology, Like I'm.
Speaker 4: Really really proud of you.
Speaker 6: I'm proud of you for your kids and for Ashley
Speaker 6: that you can do the things you're doing because a
Speaker 6: lot of people like I'm an adult child of an alcoholic,
Speaker 6: I never got the apology. I traumatic childhood inconsistency I
Speaker 6: never got, I never got the mends, I never got
Speaker 6: the ownership or any of that. And for what you're
Speaker 6: doing for your family and for the family cycle, and
Speaker 6: then for y'all to be pouring into community, like I mean,
Speaker 6: I was sitting to Alan on meetings and I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 6: this is like fine.
Speaker 4: But like there's no meat to this.
Speaker 3: There's no like there's nobody there, like really, it's amazing,
Speaker 3: don't get me wrong, and I'm not. It is a
Speaker 3: resource that's awesome, but it's just not rich enough. It's
Speaker 3: once a week. It feels like.
Speaker 4: You leave feeling less alone, which is I.
Speaker 2: Think when when I used to go to ask An,
Speaker 2: there's the cross having no cross talk. I need someone
Speaker 2: to talk to like you're just like you just say it,
Speaker 2: but then there's no support and then I beave and
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, I feel worse than when I walked in,
Speaker 2: and my mom is like barely untangling, Like we're talking
Speaker 2: forty years of just chaos, and I'm watching her start
Speaker 2: to like pull it apart. But it is like solow
Speaker 2: and and there is a piece where the person that
Speaker 2: did this isn't available to be talked to or any
Speaker 2: of that. So, like, you just need to know how
Speaker 2: huge and wonderful everything you're doing for your family, for yourself, everything,
Speaker 2: Like I know you know it probably, but like you
Speaker 2: don't see the ownership is everything.
Speaker 4: For your people.
Speaker 5: Sorry to hear that, Thank you for sharing that your life.
Speaker 6: I'm like listening to you, and I'm like, God, what
Speaker 6: a different life it would have been. You know, someone
Speaker 6: like you was like my dad, which is awkward because
Speaker 6: you're younger than me, but you know, I know.
Speaker 5: But but again, as I think it's so important that
Speaker 5: we talk about this, Yeah, I think that's a lot
Speaker 5: of it is, and there's but there's so many This
Speaker 5: isn't going anywhere, right, I mean, mental health and addiction
Speaker 5: has just been on a steady incline over the last
Speaker 5: twenty years, and I mean, what is it going to
Speaker 5: take for for a change, and a shift to happen.
Speaker 5: And I think it's it starts with communication. It starts
Speaker 5: about having the conversation and being open like this because
Speaker 5: there's millions, not two thousands and not one hundreds, it's
Speaker 5: millions of people that are in your shoes, in my
Speaker 5: shoes and that are going through this today.
Speaker 4: And so there's a million Ashleys, like.
Speaker 5: Millions more, there's more because wherever's going like now.
Speaker 3: I'm supposed to love you like you were an a
Speaker 3: pool of day ago.
Speaker 5: You know, it's hard, but I think he's like this
Speaker 5: to bring that cause like alan On is a tremendous resource.
Speaker 5: But again it's it's it's it's a piece, it's a piece,
Speaker 5: but there's it's there's what Ashley and what we're trying
Speaker 5: to bring together for that is really another tool in
Speaker 5: the toolkit, right is if allan On works you phenomenal,
Speaker 5: we love it. That's what helped ask you tremendously. But
Speaker 5: she was looking at how can I even add to that?
Speaker 5: And so again from cross talk and being able to
Speaker 5: have that insight, but even having a clinical oversight and
Speaker 5: actually having takeaways that are tangible from a professional.
Speaker 2: So Catherine were going to say then well, I's going
Speaker 2: to say to you.
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously we have a similar story as well.
Speaker 1: But I think for us, with our parents the generation,
Speaker 1: they didn't talk about it, they didn't communicate.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 1: So I know that we also my mother's still alive
Speaker 1: and we have that issue, but the communication is not
Speaker 1: like this.
Speaker 3: Well, and my grandfather was an alcoholic, so it was
Speaker 3: genetic and it was what she learned to live with.
Speaker 3: And you either marry one become one is the statistic
Speaker 3: that leads that. So her emotional bandwidth for it was
Speaker 3: it's so comfortable to her, which is crazy, but it's
Speaker 3: true because it's unhealthy.
Speaker 4: But she saw it. Have you gotten in the.
Speaker 2: Mends from your mom?
Speaker 1: She would say yes, she would say yes, for sure,
Speaker 1: you know, but no, not really, not really.
Speaker 2: What would you want or need say?
Speaker 1: That's that's the that's the that's the part that's hard
Speaker 1: for me because I don't long for that like you do.
Speaker 1: My brothers do. I think I think that they've they've
Speaker 1: handled it very differently. I was kind of the one
Speaker 1: where I'm like, I just don't even want to like,
Speaker 1: I'll take it, I'll take your you know whatever apology
Speaker 1: and just like move over here. I just kind of
Speaker 1: compartmentalized it, put it over here. But I also don't
Speaker 1: know that she has the capacity to apologize in the
Speaker 1: right way. Yeah, she doesn't have the tools that you know,
Speaker 1: she truly didn't and doesn't you know. And I think
Speaker 1: that it's a different generation. Very not that that's an excuse,
Speaker 1: but I do. I think people are doing the things
Speaker 1: that you're doing and paying attention and are getting honest
Speaker 1: and you know, and I don't think she's at that place.
Speaker 1: I don't think she's fully ever gotten honest with their So.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we don't have a lot of ownership going on.
Speaker 4: So no, not really either.
Speaker 1: But again not again, it's not an excuse, but it
Speaker 1: just feels so generational. I think we're just more open
Speaker 1: to it now, we're talking about it more now, people are.
Speaker 4: More aware of it.
Speaker 1: But not to switch gears. But I do have a
Speaker 1: question kind of in regards to that, like, since it
Speaker 1: is genetic, have you all had conversations about your own
Speaker 1: children and like what that can possibly look like in
Speaker 1: the future, because that's tough.
Speaker 5: Yes, and so we are very aware of that. When
Speaker 5: we had conversations probably even a couple of years ago,
Speaker 5: around this and how we're going to navigate this and
Speaker 5: corporate the communication with our kids because you know, they
Speaker 5: got a fifty to fifty chance of having it having it,
Speaker 5: like I mean pretty severely. This based on my genetic
Speaker 5: makeup and the background and the history, and so we
Speaker 5: were already We're already starting the conversation with Delilah around
Speaker 5: mental health. And again is what I like for every morning,
Speaker 5: Like we start at she's five years old, and so
Speaker 5: we wake up and we do a gratitude list. We
Speaker 5: do through things that she's grateful for and why, and
Speaker 5: I do that with her.
Speaker 1: And I was thinking about that when you said that.
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm gonna do that with my kids.
Speaker 4: I love that.
Speaker 5: And so I mean, but we made it up, like
Speaker 5: we made it a cool process where she lights candles
Speaker 5: and it's kind of this experience where she looks forward
Speaker 5: to doing to you know, doing it, and when we
Speaker 5: don't do it, she's like, Dad, we didn't do our
Speaker 5: gratitude lists. And so it's just starting to incorporate these
Speaker 5: little behaviors and then just even when she's really upset,
Speaker 5: getting on her level, getting you know, literally physically getting
Speaker 5: on my knees and just talking to her at her
Speaker 5: level and just understanding and kind of walking through these
Speaker 5: processes because you know, we had to just we had
Speaker 5: the shooting that just happened, and it was too close
Speaker 5: figuratively and literally, I mean it was it was twelve
Speaker 5: minutes from our house and it was this same age
Speaker 5: as our kids. And to have to sit down and
Speaker 5: have that conversation with Delilah, you know that that you know,
Speaker 5: not only is there you know, trainings and or you
Speaker 5: know you're enough you know, for for tornadoes and for
Speaker 5: earthquakes and and things like that, but now there's you know,
Speaker 5: for we got to use the term like bad, bad
Speaker 5: people that can come on to campus and and that
Speaker 5: you know that can you know, for an active shooter
Speaker 5: type of thing. And it's like how you how do
Speaker 5: you break that down? Again, Ashley was instrumental in that
Speaker 5: process and and and how we did that. But it's
Speaker 5: having that conversation, and I think what we're really trying
Speaker 5: to do is create a really safe place for them
Speaker 5: to come to to talk and communicate. And you know,
Speaker 5: because there's pretty fascinating statistics that are out there. I mean,
Speaker 5: if you're if you don't drink or use drugs or
Speaker 5: any mood altering substances by the age of twenty one,
Speaker 5: even ninety percent chance of never struggling with addiction. And so.
Speaker 3: My husband is that Preacher's kid never drank, really never
Speaker 3: did anything. Still has never done a drug in his life.
Speaker 3: He's forty eight.
Speaker 4: Yeah, insane.
Speaker 5: But I think just kind of looking at some of
Speaker 5: those things and just really trying to make and show
Speaker 5: and leveraging the knowledge that we have today, right because
Speaker 5: I also think that where there's a default from like
Speaker 5: the baby boomers and some of the older demographic because
Speaker 5: they really didn't even know how to process or share
Speaker 5: what was really going on. They weren't there, just weren't
Speaker 5: equipped with it. And so I think we're in a
Speaker 5: different time now, but it's it's being present, and I
Speaker 5: think the best thing we can do is being there
Speaker 5: for our kids and to know that they can trust us,
Speaker 5: they have a safe place to come to, and that
Speaker 5: they have support.
Speaker 3: Like literally, I can die happy knowing like that's what
Speaker 3: I've done with my kids, Like that is like that
Speaker 3: has been my goal since I could understand what the
Speaker 3: goal was. Yeah, it just matters. It is I'm not
Speaker 3: going to nail it. I'm not trying to be perfect,
Speaker 3: but just the breaking of the cycle. And it's not
Speaker 3: lost on me that my daughter and I were do
Speaker 3: a day apart ended up being two days apart. Like
Speaker 3: God is just really the hand and the poetic ability
Speaker 3: of all of that is just never lost on me.
Speaker 5: So good.
Speaker 2: The statistics that you were sharing with me too fascinated
Speaker 2: me with the binge drinking that's going on in our
Speaker 2: age right now, isn't it. Can you lay some of
Speaker 2: those stats out well?
Speaker 5: Actually coming here, That's why we did the PSA. We
Speaker 5: actually did a public service announcement around this, but moving
Speaker 5: to Tennessee that the number one health crisis in the
Speaker 5: state of Tennessee has beinge drinking.
Speaker 2: And so when we age our age like the right,
Speaker 2: isn't it like thirties, forties, fifties.
Speaker 5: I'm not sure about that piece, But I think the
Speaker 5: thing that you're talking about is the leading cause of
Speaker 5: death in America for fifty old individuals and younger is
Speaker 5: substance abuse. So I mean, it's literally the leading cause
Speaker 5: of death. And so when you look at this, that's
Speaker 5: what I'm saying, it's not going anywhere. And I mean
Speaker 5: prior to I'll give you. You know what the craziest
Speaker 5: thing is is prior to COVID, somebody was overdosing at
Speaker 5: the rate of of every eleven minutes. You know what
Speaker 5: it is today one every ninety seconds.
Speaker 3: Mmm.
Speaker 2: So do you think that's because of fetanyl too?
Speaker 5: It's yeah, I mean that that adds to it. But
Speaker 5: it's it's again, is like I even asked the question
Speaker 5: and start the conversation. Is you know, we talk about
Speaker 5: how much fentanyl and how much opiates and how much
Speaker 5: you know, how many drugs are coming into the into
Speaker 5: the to the States. My question is is why is
Speaker 5: there such a high demand?
Speaker 4: Mmm?
Speaker 5: Like, Okay, it's one, yeah, we understand that, but why
Speaker 5: are so many people wanting to do it? Like why
Speaker 5: are they so disconnected?
Speaker 4: Like it's a business.
Speaker 5: Well no, but like why are some men wanting to
Speaker 5: do a state? Right?
Speaker 4: I mean like you don't have you don't have a business.
Speaker 4: If you do, client, well that's.
Speaker 5: My place exactly. But being in a very sober state,
Speaker 5: I mean not my younger self, but now it's like
Speaker 5: I would never want to partake in any of that stuff.
Speaker 5: I'd be you know, I mean if I ever had
Speaker 5: the thought of a beer sounds good or something like.
Speaker 5: Of course that thought comes and goes, and it's how
Speaker 5: I process. And that's and and again it's it's it's fleeting.
Speaker 5: It comes and goes. But like just looking at what
Speaker 5: is out there today, and like you know, with with
Speaker 5: opiates and the it's just like I can't I can't
Speaker 5: imagine like if the landscape has changed, is what I'm
Speaker 5: getting at. I mean, it's you were younger. It wasn't
Speaker 5: like we're going to take something and we were going
Speaker 5: to die. Right.
Speaker 2: Well, here's the here's the thing that so I've never
Speaker 2: I've never touched a drug because I've always been afraid
Speaker 2: that I'm gonna die. Right, But back then you wouldn't
Speaker 2: like it's unless you like overdosed, right, But like now
Speaker 2: I'm like to my kids, if you even try the
Speaker 2: small you could you will die, like most likely it's
Speaker 2: a freaking fentanyl. Like that's where I'm place with something. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's why I'm like that piece. I'm like, just don't
Speaker 2: do it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's it's crazy, you know, it's just really it's
Speaker 5: the world we live in is different today, and it's
Speaker 5: just that's why I'm saying, like it's just you look
Speaker 5: at like, what are why are there such a high
Speaker 5: demand for these types of things that are that are
Speaker 5: out there? It's really alarming.
Speaker 3: Do I.
Speaker 2: One of the things that you know, like you're saying
Speaker 2: right now, with everyone you know wanting to the drugs
Speaker 2: and stuff, I just wish there was an easier reach
Speaker 2: for people to be able to have therapy because I
Speaker 2: think that's an issue to a lot of people are like,
Speaker 2: well I can't afford it, and it's like, oh, like
Speaker 2: what therapy has done for all of us in this
Speaker 2: room has been amazing. It's helped with so much. That's
Speaker 2: the piece where I'm like, why, I just wish there's
Speaker 2: something we can do And I know you do that
Speaker 2: right with what you're working on right now.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And well, I mean that's I think the more
Speaker 5: that we can get behind that, we can get more
Speaker 5: people supporting that effort is important. Like that's the stuff
Speaker 5: that I'm doing and working with doctor Amen at the
Speaker 5: Change your Brain Foundation is we're trying to have it
Speaker 5: be more accessible for people to actually get scans of
Speaker 5: their brains. And I think the thing that really that
Speaker 5: I love around this and it's even changing the narrative
Speaker 5: of how we look at mental health, right, and we've
Speaker 5: been treating mental health the same way we have for
Speaker 5: the last one hundred and fifty years. We've been clustering
Speaker 5: a bunch of symptoms and throwing medication at it, when
Speaker 5: in reality, we know the organ that's directly impacted, So
Speaker 5: why are we not focusing on it? And that's being
Speaker 5: the brain. And through spect imaging where you can actually
Speaker 5: see the deficiencies through where people have less blood flow
Speaker 5: through their brain, you can actually see what may be
Speaker 5: causing or triggering different things. And so I think the
Speaker 5: more that we provide access and we can actually get
Speaker 5: to the core root cause of this, it's going to
Speaker 5: help us be able to treat further and further and
Speaker 5: have better treatment plans for these types of things. But
Speaker 5: I think you know, from the stuff that we're doing
Speaker 5: at doctor Aman allowing people to actually get brain scans
Speaker 5: of what's going on within their brain to see what's
Speaker 5: going on, and then being able to set them up
Speaker 5: with appropriate therapists and psychiatrist to be able to come
Speaker 5: up with an effective treatment plan, I mean, we need
Speaker 5: to make that more readily available for people. It's it's
Speaker 5: it's it's it's it's time.
Speaker 4: It's literally the only way that I've been able to
Speaker 4: do anything.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Three things you're grateful for to end this on
Speaker 2: a happier note.
Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, I'm grateful for my sobriety. I'm grateful
Speaker 5: for our relationship with God, and I'm grateful that I'm
Speaker 5: able to be present today.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, Jason, we're so happy that you came on
Speaker 2: the show. Thank you for again doing what you do.
Speaker 2: And I'm proud to be your friend and I'm happy to,
Speaker 2: you know, to watch you do everything you're doing and
Speaker 2: join forces with you. So thanks for coming on the show.
Speaker 5: Thank you guys for having me.
Speaker 4: Thank you