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Speaker 1: Pushkin.

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Speaker 2: Twenty twenty three has been a hell of a year

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Speaker 2: for singer songwriter Noah Kahn. Just three years ago, he

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Speaker 2: started uploading snippets of his indie folks songs to TikTok

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Speaker 2: while waiting out the pandemic at his dad's house in

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Speaker 2: rural Vermont. Those songs quickly caught fire across social media

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Speaker 2: and eventually turned into Noah's most recent album, Stick Season,

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Speaker 2: and after releasing collaborations with Casey Musgraves, Hosier and Post Malone,

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Speaker 2: Noah's amassed four billion streams globally. It's no surprise that

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Speaker 2: last month he was nominated for the Best New Artist Grammy.

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Speaker 2: But while Noah's often called the breakout star of the year,

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Speaker 2: he's actually not a music industry rookie. He signed up

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Speaker 2: Republic Records in twenty seventeen, initially working as a songwriter

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Speaker 2: in New York, where he learned the intricacies of writing

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Speaker 2: pop music. It wasn't until the music industry shut down

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty that he was able to apply those

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Speaker 2: techniques he learned as a songwriter to his own work

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Speaker 2: as a singer songwriter. On today's episode, Lea Rose talks

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Speaker 2: to Noa Khan about navigating his often overwhelming newfound success

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Speaker 2: and how he feels about being labeled the new quote

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Speaker 2: unquote sensitive Woodsman singer songwriter de Jore. Noah also opens

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Speaker 2: up about initially being embarrassed about his singing voice and

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Speaker 2: his plans for evolving his sound on his next album,

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Speaker 2: This is Broken Record. Liner notes to the digital age,

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Speaker 2: I'm justin Mitchman. Here's Lea Rose's conversation with Noah Khan.

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Speaker 3: When you were writing Stick Season, did you have any

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Speaker 3: overarching guiding principles?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 4: I think like in hindsight, it's always easy to say,

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Speaker 4: like I wanted to write about loneliness during a lonely time,

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Speaker 4: or I think I had been feeling lonely for a

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Speaker 4: lot of my life and that was just kind of

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Speaker 4: finding its way into my music.

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Speaker 1: And I was in Vermont and that found this way

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Speaker 1: into my music.

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Speaker 4: I definitely didn't walk in with any you know, intention

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Speaker 4: of like a theme. Besides that, I wanted to write

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Speaker 4: about what I was going through at that point in

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Speaker 4: my life and my relationship with my home state and

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Speaker 4: my hometown, with my family and with myself. At that time,

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Speaker 4: it was like kind of just in real life on

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Speaker 4: my mind and really like a pervasive part of my

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Speaker 4: experience day to day. And I think what my overarching

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Speaker 4: goal was just to have an outlet for that, and

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Speaker 4: I ended up being the start of, you know, the

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Speaker 4: concept for the record essentially.

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Speaker 3: And so what was your situation, Like what was a

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Speaker 3: setup during the pandemic? Were you suddenly like back home

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Speaker 3: in the house that you grew up in with your family, Like.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty much like I.

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Speaker 4: You know, I grew up in New Hampshire and Vermont,

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Speaker 4: and we moved to this place in Vermont when I

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Speaker 4: was halfway through high school, and so it kind of

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Speaker 4: was like my childhood home in many ways. I we'd

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Speaker 4: had the property my entire life since long before I

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Speaker 4: was born. So it was a place that I was,

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Speaker 4: you know, considered much at home or like, you know,

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Speaker 4: a very familiar place for me that I had a

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Speaker 4: lot of, you know, my memories and different attachments too.

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Speaker 4: I was living in New York and was like really

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Speaker 4: lost at that point in my life, like just kind

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Speaker 4: of burning out pretty hard with music, and I for

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Speaker 4: some reason never felt like a New Yorker I lived there.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you know, I only lived there for at

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Speaker 4: that point for about a year, but I never felt

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Speaker 4: like I belonged.

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Speaker 1: I felt like it was my first day there. Every

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Speaker 1: single day I was in the city.

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Speaker 4: And you know that the pandemic, you know that that

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Speaker 4: one week in March, I remember, you know, getting one

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Speaker 4: of those hoax texts. I was like, the governor of

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Speaker 4: the mayor is about to close the borders to the city,

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Speaker 4: Like you need to get out and keep pressing the link.

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Speaker 4: And it's like it was actually a picture of a

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Speaker 4: guy's dick, is what it was when pressed the link.

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Speaker 4: But I I I had I pressed the link. I mean,

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Speaker 4: my older brother was in town. We were like fucket.

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Speaker 4: We literally ran for the hills and drove to Vermont

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Speaker 4: that night, got home. We're like, okay, like they weren't

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Speaker 4: closing the borders, but it probably was a good time

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Speaker 4: to get back.

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Speaker 1: So we we got home and uh, we don't.

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Speaker 4: I don't go back to New York until I moved

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Speaker 4: my stuff out of August of twenty twenty, and I

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Speaker 4: was home for about a year and a half, so

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Speaker 4: I really I went right back to the my parents' house.

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Speaker 4: My parents split up and it became my dad's house

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Speaker 4: and we have like a barn with like a little

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Speaker 4: studio a little like an apartment above it.

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Speaker 1: And my dad was like, hey, like while you're figuring

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Speaker 1: what you want to do out.

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Speaker 4: And like, well, if the world is figuring what's going

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Speaker 4: to happen out, like you can stay up there rent free.

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Speaker 4: And so my dad let me stay up in the

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Speaker 4: barn and that kind of became like where I made

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Speaker 4: up on music and where I.

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Speaker 1: Did these Instagram live streams and where I.

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Speaker 4: You know, started to really like digest my experience and

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Speaker 4: start making the album.

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Speaker 3: How old were you at that point?

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Speaker 4: So twenty twenty I was, This is twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 4: I'm twenty six. Now this is why I should have

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Speaker 4: gone to college. Kind of do the math in my head.

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Speaker 4: It's literally twenty six. Mine is three. I was twenty two,

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Speaker 4: twenty three years old. I think I was twenty three

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Speaker 4: at the start of the pandemic.

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Speaker 3: Did that feel at that point, like moving back home? Like,

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Speaker 3: how did that feel?

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Speaker 1: Honestly? Like it felt amazing?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And I hate to like to be positively about

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Speaker 4: what was like such a terrible time just generally for

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Speaker 4: the world and for millions of people, but and I

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Speaker 4: kind of a fucked up way like it was just

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Speaker 4: it felt like this escape from this really monotonous style

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Speaker 4: of life I was living, and it felt so refreshing.

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Speaker 4: I think like I spent so much of my time

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Speaker 4: as a musician and as someone that had like a

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Speaker 4: very untraditional job, feeling like I'm living like an imposter's life,

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Speaker 4: Like everyone's going to work and I'm kind of like

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Speaker 4: grabbing a coffee at two pm and started to try

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Speaker 4: to write songs. Yeah, stepping away and going on my

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Speaker 4: phone for two hours. And I always kind of felt

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Speaker 4: like I was moving in slow motion and everybody was

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Speaker 4: moving at regular speed, and suddenly, like the pandemic felt

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Speaker 4: like it brought everybody to the same speed for one second.

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Speaker 4: And that's a very rare thing. And for me, it

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Speaker 4: was so rare to feel connected to people that were

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Speaker 4: around me. I felt this disconnected from everyone, from my

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Speaker 4: friends and from my family, and from even other musicians,

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Speaker 4: because I couldn't relate to my friends because they weren't

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Speaker 4: musicians and they were working, you know, different jobs than

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Speaker 4: a different you know, equally complicated and difficult but abstract

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Speaker 4: in me lifestyle, and I.

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Speaker 1: Couldn't relate to the musicians because for some reason.

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Speaker 4: It always like talking to the musicians always created this

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Speaker 4: feeling of anxiety within me, like just this feeling of

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Speaker 4: other nis, just feeling of feeling left out of some

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Speaker 4: shared experience that all the other musicians were having together.

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Speaker 4: Whether that's just the insecurity, probably, but I still felt it,

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Speaker 4: and so I felt like I was stuck between two

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Speaker 4: different styles of life. And when the dynamic hit in

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Speaker 4: that first few months of my family being back home

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Speaker 4: and everyone being like, what the fuck are we going

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Speaker 4: to do? And the musicians being like what the fuck

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Speaker 4: are we gonna do? And the finance and tech people

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Speaker 4: being like, what the fuck are we gonna do? It

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Speaker 4: just felt unifying in like a weird way, and it

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Speaker 4: made me feel like I finally had some even footing

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Speaker 4: with the world, and that was strangely really nice for me,

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Speaker 4: despite how challenging it was for other reasons.

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Speaker 3: Is it different now the way that you feel towards

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Speaker 3: other musicians. Have you found people that you're able to

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Speaker 3: relate to more?

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Speaker 1: Yes? And I think a lot.

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Speaker 4: It's it's it's been a result of me making the

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Speaker 4: effort and accepting that I might feel anxious or insecure

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Speaker 4: and trying to power through that. Because there's not a

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Speaker 4: lot of people that relate to what's going on in

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Speaker 4: my life right now, and some of the only people

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Speaker 4: I can relate to are people that I've been through it,

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Speaker 4: and I had to force myself to be willing to

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Speaker 4: hear them and to accept their perspectives and to try.

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Speaker 1: To learn from it. It all came for me, you know.

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Speaker 4: It was all me facing the insecurity of trying to

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Speaker 4: relate to people that I've typically had a hard time

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Speaker 4: relating to, and it's made it a lot easier to

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Speaker 4: kind of have those conversations now. Having those first few

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Speaker 4: conversations and being willing to sit down and talk to

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Speaker 4: somebody and be vulnerable with somebody that you know might

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Speaker 4: understand it and been a really cool and eye opening

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Speaker 4: experience for me this past year and a half two years.

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Speaker 1: It's been very helpful, in fact, very crucial in a

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Speaker 1: lot of ways.

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Speaker 3: Did it change the way that you wrote songs when

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Speaker 3: you were back home?

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Speaker 1: It did?

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Speaker 4: It really did, because I was writing songs in New

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Speaker 4: York just because I wanted to fill time and I

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Speaker 4: want to feel like I had a job, and I

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Speaker 4: was You could hear it in the songs.

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Speaker 1: It was you know, pop songwriting.

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Speaker 4: Is just there's a real formula to it, for better

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Speaker 4: or for worse, and a lot of sessions, you know,

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Speaker 4: you sit down and you talk to somebody and you

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Speaker 4: pretend like you're having a normal conversation, but you're both

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Speaker 4: looking for a hook and what everyone's saying, or a concept,

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Speaker 4: and then you identify it and sit down and write

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Speaker 4: about it and fulfill the concept and write a verse

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Speaker 4: and a chorus, and a verse and a bridge and

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Speaker 4: a drop chorus and a chorus, and it just there

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Speaker 4: is a real formula to it that for me was.

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Speaker 1: Becoming monotonous and my numbing.

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Speaker 4: And by the time I got home to Vermont, I

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Speaker 4: was so sure that the music industry would never come

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Speaker 4: back that I was like, I'm gonna write the way

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Speaker 4: I like to write, and that is, you know, not

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Speaker 4: having a concept, sitting down and writing about what I'm feeling,

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Speaker 4: trying to come up with stories, and trying to be

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Speaker 4: creative in a way that doesn't stick to a certain

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Speaker 4: concept that might not even relate to me, just writing

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Speaker 4: about anything that I feel in the moment, stepping away

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Speaker 4: if I don't want to fucking do it anymore, and

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Speaker 4: coming back a week later and sitting down with feeling

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Speaker 4: inspired again, going on my own pace, and being willing

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Speaker 4: to just make whatever made me happy in that moment.

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Speaker 4: It's very difficult to control a song in a songwriting

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Speaker 4: session in that way, because you're working with people that

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Speaker 4: I would have motivations of their own and have schedules

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Speaker 4: of their own, and you really have to To me,

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Speaker 4: it felt like I was sacrificing some of the process

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Speaker 4: for other people, and that was a terrible feeling.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, were you working with like big named artists, like

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Speaker 3: anyone we would know? Are you allowed to say.

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Speaker 1: I was working with incredible songwriters?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, incredible songwriters, some of the best in the world

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Speaker 4: who have written beautiful songs that are clearly heartfelt and

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Speaker 4: full of emotion and full of grounded real feelings and

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Speaker 4: have written huge hits. You know, I could have written

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Speaker 4: with Max Martin. It would have sounded like I made

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Speaker 4: it with my next door neighbor or something. You know,

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Speaker 4: it didn't. Everything I was making was colored by my

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Speaker 4: own burnout right, and by my lack of passion and

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Speaker 4: my feeling of you know, exhaustion of being a songwriter.

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Speaker 4: It was like every song to me, you had the

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Speaker 4: same color to it, and I think that it's really

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Speaker 4: like a symptom of depression in a lot of ways, Like,

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Speaker 4: you know, every single thing feels the same. And I

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Speaker 4: look back at some of these songs, like, you know,

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Speaker 4: those songs actually had a lot of life in them

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Speaker 4: in a lot of ways, and some of those songs

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Speaker 4: are really great. And I listen back a like proud

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Speaker 4: of those songs, more proud than I ever was in

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Speaker 4: a moment, and I think it was just, you know,

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Speaker 4: it was really a statement about my state of my

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Speaker 4: state of my mind and my emotions of that time

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Speaker 4: that made those songs feel, you know, the same, regardless

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Speaker 4: of what I'm working with.

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Speaker 3: Would you're writing a new song, do you have an

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Speaker 3: idea of where the inspiration comes from? Like does it

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Speaker 3: feel like it comes from outside of you or does

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Speaker 3: it feel like it's more internal and making its way out.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's more internal and making its way out.

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Speaker 4: It's very rarely a conscious thing. I feel as if

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Speaker 4: I'm writing because it feels good in the moment, and

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Speaker 4: I look back and I'm like, oh, that's because of

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Speaker 4: that thing that happened, or that's because I've been feeling

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Speaker 4: like this for the past few weeks, and I don't

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Speaker 4: realize it until after, which is kind of fun because

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Speaker 4: it feels like you don't have to do the work

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Speaker 4: of feeling bad about how you're feeling and then making

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Speaker 4: the song. It's like you just make the song and

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Speaker 4: then you think about how bad you're feeling later. It's

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Speaker 4: kind of a nice It's kind of like a get

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Speaker 4: out of jail free card for feeling emotions, which is

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Speaker 4: kind of cool.

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Speaker 3: And how quickly does it cause relief? Is it like

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Speaker 3: as soon as you put a line down, do you

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Speaker 3: start to feel a little bit of the pressure release?

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Speaker 1: No, totally.

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Speaker 4: I think just one line can make the whole difference.

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Speaker 4: And then there are songs that I've heard that I'm like,

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Speaker 4: I don't even like the rest of the song. Is

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Speaker 4: that one line that I'm so connected to And that

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Speaker 4: happens with me all the time if I write a

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Speaker 4: you know, sometimes I'm like, this verse is fine, I

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Speaker 4: might as well keep going because it has a good

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Speaker 4: melody or a good core progression, and then the chorus

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Speaker 4: and like.

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Speaker 1: This is why it's good.

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Speaker 4: That line is enough for need to love the whole song,

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Speaker 4: and it really does create like an instant sense of relief,

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Speaker 4: to feel, to feel that a line can, even just

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Speaker 4: five words, can encapsulate how you're actually feeling. It's cool.

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Speaker 4: That's what's so special about songwriting.

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Speaker 1: That's so great.

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Speaker 4: You never know when that relief is gonna come, and

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Speaker 4: it's exciting, and it's kind of like gambling, you know,

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Speaker 4: because you know you have to put so much emotional,

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Speaker 4: so much emotion into something, and you don't know how

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Speaker 4: it's gonna turn out. But when it hits, it's like

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Speaker 4: the jackpot of feeling relief and feeling excited and feeling.

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Speaker 1: Uh, satisfied. Is is worth that that kind of torture

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Speaker 1: of making amusing?

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Speaker 3: Does it really feel like torture? No, seems like it

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Speaker 3: comes fairly easily to you.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm not working in a fucking coal mine. Uh.

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Speaker 4: I always try to do care. Sometimes I find myself

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Speaker 4: talking about songwriting. I'm like, I sound like a fucking asshole,

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Speaker 4: Like this stuff is not that hard. What's challenging, uh,

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Speaker 4: And what makes it feel like torture sometimes is the

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Speaker 4: constant comparison. I think if I had like the Men

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Speaker 4: in Black thing where you like make people forget that

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Speaker 4: stick thing that like makes people forget their like what

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Speaker 4: just happened?

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Speaker 1: If I have one of those, and I can.

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Speaker 4: Erase all the context of my songwriting career, my life,

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Speaker 4: I think I would love songwriting so much more. I

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Speaker 4: always find myself comparing whatever I'm doing in the moment

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Speaker 4: to what I've made before. You know, the comparison. It's

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Speaker 4: a thief of all joy. Yeah, he's the most successful

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Speaker 4: thief in the fucking history of my life. Like, it's

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Speaker 4: just always I'm always comparing myself, and so you kind

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Speaker 4: of are already losing when you do that. And I

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Speaker 4: feel like I set myself up for failure in that way,

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Speaker 4: and it requires a real will to just sit in

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Speaker 4: that feeling of comparing herself and to let it go

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Speaker 4: to make the songwriting and feel exciting and fun. And

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Speaker 4: I've gotten better at that, but it's still something I practiced.

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Speaker 3: What do you think is the best song you've ever written?

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Speaker 3: And you're comparing in your mind, like, what are you

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Speaker 3: putting that up against?

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Speaker 4: I think right now, I think my favorite song I've

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Speaker 4: ever made would be Homesick, because when I listened back

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Speaker 4: to that song, I'm not only excited about the lyrics

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Speaker 4: and about the story, but also some of the risks

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Speaker 4: that I took in the instrumentation, the musicality of it.

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Speaker 4: It was one of the first songs I had that

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Speaker 4: was like rocking and like let the band play a

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Speaker 4: little bit and allowed states to happen in a way

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Speaker 4: that still felt compelling. A lot of times I just

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Speaker 4: stuff words over everything so that there's no one can

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Speaker 4: find out that I'm playing the same three chords over

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Speaker 4: and over again. But with Homesick, I felt like I

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Speaker 4: allowed myself to just take a risk that people were

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Speaker 4: invested enough in the song that I could have some

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Speaker 4: moments to be musical and to be experimental musically in

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Speaker 4: the context of my own music, by the way, experiment

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Speaker 4: and allow that to live and to not feel like

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Speaker 4: I need to smother that with lyrics so.

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Speaker 1: That song I'm really excited to buy another song.

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Speaker 4: A lot of times I find the songs that I

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Speaker 4: am most proud of are the ones that I still

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Speaker 4: relate two years later. A song like young Blood is

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Speaker 4: just a song I wrote when I was eighteen or

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Speaker 4: nineteen years old, and I still feel like I connect

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Speaker 4: to those lyrics so much, and they still feel mature

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Speaker 4: to me and exciting to me. And that's always cool,

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Speaker 4: you know, to look back at a song that I

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Speaker 4: was written eight years ago and to feel like it

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Speaker 4: was a representation of who I am.

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Speaker 1: You know at twenty six, What.

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Speaker 3: Part in particular are you thinking?

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Speaker 1: Eh?

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Speaker 4: I think from like a song running standpoint, I really

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Speaker 4: like just the melody choices in that song, Like I

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Speaker 4: like that, you know, ascending melody that comes into falsetto

347
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Speaker 4: and comes out. You know, it's not like a vocal

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Speaker 4: run that someone's trying to be, like an impressive vocal run,

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Speaker 4: you know, or you're trying to like flex your vocal muscle.

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Speaker 1: It's really just like.

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Speaker 4: An emotional vocal run that I thought was really you know,

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Speaker 4: it's funny talking about myself in the past.

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Speaker 1: I thought was clever.

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Speaker 4: And then lyrically, I think that that kind of mantra

355
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Speaker 4: style of lyrics aged really well. A lot of times

356
00:15:11,556 --> 00:15:14,836
Speaker 4: mantras came just we change our principles a perspective, But

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Speaker 4: that perspective has still stuck with me and it's felt

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Speaker 4: very relevant to my career.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 3: Is there anything you're embarrassed about or anything you've said

361
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Speaker 3: in a song, any lines that you thought were like

362
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Speaker 3: incredible when you wrote them. Your younger self wrote them

363
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Speaker 3: that you're like, I got it, like I figured it out,

364
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Speaker 3: and you listen to it now and you're like, oh

365
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Speaker 3: my god.

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Speaker 1: Definitely.

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Speaker 4: I think if you gave me twenty minutes, I could

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Speaker 4: come up with a list of a thousand things I'm

369
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Speaker 4: embarrassed about. But I think I'm mostly embarrassed about how

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Speaker 4: much I tried to hide my singing voice. I think

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Speaker 4: I tried to be really cute and stylistic and affected

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Speaker 4: with my singing voice a lot of times, hiding because

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Speaker 4: I didn't feel like I had a very good voice

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Speaker 4: and that I had to be like more unique or

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Speaker 4: like indie sounding, And I think I kind of adjusted

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Speaker 4: it in some songs to feel like I was something

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Speaker 4: worth listening to. And it wasn't until I started to

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Speaker 4: kind of, you know, with taking vocal lessons but also

379
00:16:06,516 --> 00:16:09,076
Speaker 4: just allowing myself to sing more naturally that I started

380
00:16:09,156 --> 00:16:10,996
Speaker 4: to feel really proud of my voice as it is

381
00:16:11,036 --> 00:16:12,796
Speaker 4: and be comfortable with it and come to terms with that.

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Speaker 4: So I look back, I'm like, man, you should have

383
00:16:14,676 --> 00:16:16,996
Speaker 4: sang that part like yeah, who carries you sound a

384
00:16:17,036 --> 00:16:19,476
Speaker 4: little nasally or if like you sound a little bit

385
00:16:19,956 --> 00:16:22,156
Speaker 4: a little bit sharp in that moment we got auto

386
00:16:22,156 --> 00:16:24,076
Speaker 4: tune baby, like you should have just tried to sing it.

387
00:16:24,836 --> 00:16:26,556
Speaker 4: So sometimes I look back and I'm a little bit

388
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Speaker 4: ashamed of not trusting my voice a little earlier.

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Speaker 3: Are there things that you're excited to try, like new ideas,

390
00:16:34,236 --> 00:16:38,036
Speaker 3: new ways you're going to stretch either your voice or songwriting,

391
00:16:38,276 --> 00:16:42,396
Speaker 3: or different musical ideas that you're looking forward to trying

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Speaker 3: on your next album?

393
00:16:44,236 --> 00:16:44,996
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.

394
00:16:45,116 --> 00:16:47,316
Speaker 4: We uh. I was work messing out in the studio

395
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Speaker 4: a couple of days ago with Gabe Simon, who produced

396
00:16:49,436 --> 00:16:51,956
Speaker 4: six Season with me, and Conrad Snyder who.

397
00:16:51,756 --> 00:16:54,196
Speaker 1: Engineered it, and Carrie who played drums and all the songs.

398
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Speaker 4: We were just jamming out and playing some kind of

399
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Speaker 4: like some of my radio Head type stuff where I

400
00:16:58,716 --> 00:17:00,916
Speaker 4: was really wail and singing, and it was really fun

401
00:17:00,996 --> 00:17:01,556
Speaker 4: to kind of.

402
00:17:01,476 --> 00:17:05,436
Speaker 1: Like wail and to not be so precious of the words.

403
00:17:05,116 --> 00:17:08,356
Speaker 4: And to let the singing, like the actual notes, you know,

404
00:17:08,436 --> 00:17:11,236
Speaker 4: carry the emotion. Was really cool and something that I

405
00:17:11,276 --> 00:17:13,316
Speaker 4: want to, you know, try a little bit more. I like,

406
00:17:13,316 --> 00:17:16,676
Speaker 4: we place so many shows that I want every song

407
00:17:16,716 --> 00:17:17,916
Speaker 4: to be really fun to play live.

408
00:17:18,316 --> 00:17:18,556
Speaker 2: Yeah.

409
00:17:18,596 --> 00:17:20,076
Speaker 3: I was going to ask you about that. When you're

410
00:17:20,076 --> 00:17:24,116
Speaker 3: writing songs. There's certain songs that you have that seem

411
00:17:24,236 --> 00:17:27,916
Speaker 3: like they were created with a live performance in mind,

412
00:17:28,436 --> 00:17:30,476
Speaker 3: like some of the songs where it starts out quiet

413
00:17:30,516 --> 00:17:33,796
Speaker 3: and then it just explodes like wall of sound, you know,

414
00:17:33,916 --> 00:17:36,796
Speaker 3: once the chorus hits or even you know, as the

415
00:17:36,916 --> 00:17:40,716
Speaker 3: verse develops. Is that something you think about when you're writing.

416
00:17:40,916 --> 00:17:41,676
Speaker 1: One hundred percent?

417
00:17:41,756 --> 00:17:43,596
Speaker 4: I do, Yeah, I just think about how can we

418
00:17:43,636 --> 00:17:46,596
Speaker 4: make this part as exciting as possible? And what has

419
00:17:46,636 --> 00:17:48,116
Speaker 4: happened with a lot of the songs you know, on

420
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Speaker 4: Stick Season, on the Deluxe and some of the stuff

421
00:17:49,756 --> 00:17:52,116
Speaker 4: that I'm writing now is that I really love doing

422
00:17:52,196 --> 00:17:54,676
Speaker 4: songs that don't have repeating parts, so it feels like

423
00:17:54,716 --> 00:17:57,196
Speaker 4: a legitimate, like roller coaster ride for the fans. Like

424
00:17:57,236 --> 00:17:59,276
Speaker 4: you have a start of something that's slow and builds

425
00:17:59,276 --> 00:18:01,116
Speaker 4: and it comes into a crazy place. It goes into

426
00:18:01,116 --> 00:18:04,196
Speaker 4: a different verse that's a different melody and different lyric

427
00:18:04,276 --> 00:18:07,276
Speaker 4: and do a different chorus, Just allowing myself to kind

428
00:18:07,276 --> 00:18:09,036
Speaker 4: of create a little bit of a journey and tell

429
00:18:09,156 --> 00:18:11,556
Speaker 4: a story and the music instead of feeling like, you know,

430
00:18:11,596 --> 00:18:14,556
Speaker 4: it's that pop formula verse chorus, verse, chorus, vers chorus,

431
00:18:14,556 --> 00:18:17,956
Speaker 4: bridge chorus, joh chorus versus and being able to kind

432
00:18:17,956 --> 00:18:19,716
Speaker 4: of step away from that is really fun and knowing

433
00:18:19,756 --> 00:18:21,956
Speaker 4: that live it's gonna be so exciting. You know, there

434
00:18:21,956 --> 00:18:24,716
Speaker 4: are songs like a song we have called Your Needs,

435
00:18:24,756 --> 00:18:27,316
Speaker 4: My Needs that does that that just starts little and

436
00:18:27,596 --> 00:18:30,436
Speaker 4: just explodes and it's the best moment of the set

437
00:18:30,476 --> 00:18:32,996
Speaker 4: live and it's you know, certainly not the most streame song,

438
00:18:33,116 --> 00:18:36,116
Speaker 4: but it's that song that really lives for the live performance,

439
00:18:36,196 --> 00:18:40,276
Speaker 4: and you know, just to anecdotally, like I when I

440
00:18:40,316 --> 00:18:41,876
Speaker 4: lived the New York one thing that I love about

441
00:18:41,916 --> 00:18:44,756
Speaker 4: New York was every week, at least.

442
00:18:44,636 --> 00:18:46,236
Speaker 1: Two or three nights a week, I go see a show.

443
00:18:46,316 --> 00:18:49,636
Speaker 4: And sometimes I'd be at Webster Hall or Brooklyn Steele

444
00:18:49,836 --> 00:18:52,596
Speaker 4: or MSG or whatever. A lot of times it was

445
00:18:52,636 --> 00:18:55,356
Speaker 4: at you know, Ballery Ballroom or Mercury Lounge, seeing little

446
00:18:55,396 --> 00:18:58,276
Speaker 4: artists and small artists walking away and being like, I

447
00:18:58,356 --> 00:19:00,116
Speaker 4: know that artist so much better than I ever could

448
00:19:00,116 --> 00:19:02,356
Speaker 4: if I listened on Spotify, because I got it year live. Yeah.

449
00:19:02,396 --> 00:19:03,956
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that was something that really inspire me.

450
00:19:04,316 --> 00:19:06,516
Speaker 3: How much are you changing the song's live? Because I know,

451
00:19:06,596 --> 00:19:08,836
Speaker 3: as a music fan, sometimes you go and see an

452
00:19:08,876 --> 00:19:11,516
Speaker 3: artist you love and when they change the songs too much.

453
00:19:11,556 --> 00:19:13,276
Speaker 3: You're a little bit pissed because you kind of want

454
00:19:13,276 --> 00:19:16,436
Speaker 3: to sing along to what you know. So how much

455
00:19:16,476 --> 00:19:19,516
Speaker 3: are you actually changing the songs when you're performing live.

456
00:19:19,956 --> 00:19:21,916
Speaker 4: Well, we always keep the parts that are recorded in

457
00:19:21,956 --> 00:19:23,916
Speaker 4: this song, so we always make sure that we sing

458
00:19:23,956 --> 00:19:27,116
Speaker 4: every lyric and every verse and chorus gets their own moment.

459
00:19:27,156 --> 00:19:27,876
Speaker 1: We add a lot.

460
00:19:28,316 --> 00:19:30,916
Speaker 4: Sometimes we'll add a moment from my band to solo,

461
00:19:31,436 --> 00:19:33,876
Speaker 4: like these guys, it's funny. These guys are world class

462
00:19:33,956 --> 00:19:37,156
Speaker 4: musicians that are having to play a E minor c

463
00:19:37,756 --> 00:19:39,876
Speaker 4: F And I'm like, give these dud the second to

464
00:19:39,956 --> 00:19:42,196
Speaker 4: jam out a little bit because they are.

465
00:19:42,436 --> 00:19:43,756
Speaker 1: Talented and shit showcase it.

466
00:19:43,756 --> 00:19:45,996
Speaker 4: And so we let the band play and they have fun,

467
00:19:46,036 --> 00:19:49,116
Speaker 4: and we change it based on each crowd. Sometimes we

468
00:19:49,276 --> 00:19:51,396
Speaker 4: change we add a chorus with the crowd is screaming

469
00:19:51,396 --> 00:19:52,996
Speaker 4: every word and let them sing a little bit longer.

470
00:19:53,036 --> 00:19:55,556
Speaker 4: Sometimes we'll be like, this crowdfucking hates this song, let's

471
00:19:55,596 --> 00:19:56,956
Speaker 4: just do the regular version of it.

472
00:19:57,036 --> 00:19:59,036
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really a crowd by crowd, show by show thing.

473
00:19:59,516 --> 00:20:02,196
Speaker 3: What's the song that gets the biggest reaction from the crowds.

474
00:20:02,556 --> 00:20:05,196
Speaker 4: Well, we played Northern Aitude first, which is really fun

475
00:20:05,236 --> 00:20:08,756
Speaker 4: because It just is a real sing along tune and

476
00:20:08,756 --> 00:20:10,756
Speaker 4: people are are already excited for us to be coming out,

477
00:20:10,796 --> 00:20:12,396
Speaker 4: and they're kind of like excited that it's a song.

478
00:20:12,476 --> 00:20:15,836
Speaker 4: They definitely know that song gets a great response. We

479
00:20:15,916 --> 00:20:17,396
Speaker 4: let them sing the chorus at the end, which is

480
00:20:17,436 --> 00:20:20,396
Speaker 4: super cool. It's funny like Paul Revere is a song

481
00:20:20,436 --> 00:20:23,196
Speaker 4: that gets a lot of attention live, which is just

482
00:20:23,236 --> 00:20:26,516
Speaker 4: like a specific song about like a New England I

483
00:20:26,516 --> 00:20:28,356
Speaker 4: guess legend, I guess you could say, or like old

484
00:20:28,396 --> 00:20:30,076
Speaker 4: It's just like an a lot of New England references

485
00:20:30,116 --> 00:20:32,636
Speaker 4: and wherever I am, that's always the fun one to play.

486
00:20:34,156 --> 00:20:35,996
Speaker 2: We're gonna take a quick break and then come back

487
00:20:36,036 --> 00:20:43,356
Speaker 2: with more from Lea Rose and Noah Khan. We're back

488
00:20:43,396 --> 00:20:45,716
Speaker 2: with Lea Rose and Noah Khan.

489
00:20:47,396 --> 00:20:51,756
Speaker 3: With Northern Attitude. The lyrics are very literary and it's

490
00:20:51,756 --> 00:20:56,156
Speaker 3: like you're outlining the major strokes of someone's life. Did

491
00:20:56,196 --> 00:20:59,036
Speaker 3: you have somebody specific in mind when you wrote that song?

492
00:21:00,076 --> 00:21:01,516
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think there are elements of it that I

493
00:21:01,556 --> 00:21:03,716
Speaker 4: take from my dad, and elements that I see in

494
00:21:03,876 --> 00:21:07,156
Speaker 4: trans parents and lots of children of divorce. You know,

495
00:21:07,236 --> 00:21:11,276
Speaker 4: this feeling of what now and this is who I am,

496
00:21:11,316 --> 00:21:14,396
Speaker 4: but you kind of have to start over. And I

497
00:21:14,396 --> 00:21:16,316
Speaker 4: have so much respect for my dad and for my

498
00:21:16,356 --> 00:21:19,196
Speaker 4: mom because it takes a lot of courage to do

499
00:21:19,276 --> 00:21:22,916
Speaker 4: something like that. It's so easy to be stuck in.

500
00:21:23,316 --> 00:21:25,396
Speaker 4: It's so easy to stay in what's comfortable, even if

501
00:21:25,396 --> 00:21:29,676
Speaker 4: it's making miserable. I know all about it, and I

502
00:21:29,716 --> 00:21:31,636
Speaker 4: have so much respect for people that make that decision

503
00:21:31,676 --> 00:21:34,556
Speaker 4: for themselves. And I have so much respect for the

504
00:21:34,636 --> 00:21:39,836
Speaker 4: journey afterwards of discovery, rediscovery and reevaluation, and that stuff

505
00:21:39,916 --> 00:21:42,476
Speaker 4: is really hard to do at any age, but particularly

506
00:21:42,476 --> 00:21:43,836
Speaker 4: when you have lived the life a certain way for

507
00:21:43,876 --> 00:21:46,236
Speaker 4: a long time. So yeah, yeah, that's definitely inspiration for

508
00:21:46,316 --> 00:21:50,316
Speaker 4: my pops, and I think there's some hope in it too,

509
00:21:50,436 --> 00:21:54,156
Speaker 4: you know, like this feeling of accepting yourself and being

510
00:21:54,236 --> 00:21:57,756
Speaker 4: able to evaluate yourself critically and explaining that to somebody

511
00:21:57,796 --> 00:22:01,116
Speaker 4: as an important step and growth and change, and those

512
00:22:01,116 --> 00:22:02,956
Speaker 4: are themes I want to evaluate in that team.

513
00:22:03,676 --> 00:22:07,876
Speaker 3: During the pandemic, when you started uploading like little snippets

514
00:22:07,916 --> 00:22:10,716
Speaker 3: of songs to TikTok, how much did you think about

515
00:22:10,716 --> 00:22:13,236
Speaker 3: how you were framed in the shot and like how

516
00:22:13,276 --> 00:22:16,076
Speaker 3: intimate and how upclose it was, especially since you were

517
00:22:16,116 --> 00:22:19,476
Speaker 3: talking about being self conscious about your voice because you're

518
00:22:19,516 --> 00:22:23,516
Speaker 3: like right up in there. You know, it's great for

519
00:22:23,556 --> 00:22:26,356
Speaker 3: the people watching it because it's like it's very vulnerable,

520
00:22:26,356 --> 00:22:29,156
Speaker 3: but like people really feel like they know you because

521
00:22:29,196 --> 00:22:31,596
Speaker 3: we're like so close to you so.

522
00:22:31,596 --> 00:22:36,196
Speaker 4: You can see the fucking pores in my nose. Yeah,

523
00:22:36,236 --> 00:22:38,356
Speaker 4: I honestly didn't think about it at all. Like I

524
00:22:38,956 --> 00:22:41,276
Speaker 4: tell people, like every phone I have a nice new phone,

525
00:22:41,396 --> 00:22:43,436
Speaker 4: every photo I've ever taken on a nice phone looks

526
00:22:43,436 --> 00:22:45,836
Speaker 4: like it was taken from an iPhone too, like I have.

527
00:22:46,316 --> 00:22:48,516
Speaker 4: I have such a poor grasp on technology. I have

528
00:22:48,556 --> 00:22:52,036
Speaker 4: such a poor grasp on aesthetics. Like I was the

529
00:22:52,076 --> 00:22:55,556
Speaker 4: guy in high school that would post a terrible photo

530
00:22:55,596 --> 00:22:58,356
Speaker 4: of a sunset every like five months, and then that

531
00:22:58,516 --> 00:22:59,756
Speaker 4: was like my Instagram presence.

532
00:23:00,476 --> 00:23:02,036
Speaker 1: That was it. That's all I engagement.

533
00:23:02,076 --> 00:23:05,996
Speaker 4: There was no engagement, no like the like it myself

534
00:23:06,236 --> 00:23:08,916
Speaker 4: like that kind of thing nine likes, and I was like, oh,

535
00:23:09,436 --> 00:23:13,396
Speaker 4: you know, so I I was never very like esthetically

536
00:23:14,076 --> 00:23:18,116
Speaker 4: intuitive and social media challenge was definitely part of my

537
00:23:18,636 --> 00:23:20,036
Speaker 4: part of my life for a long time.

538
00:23:20,356 --> 00:23:22,356
Speaker 1: So when I was making the tiktoks, I was just like,

539
00:23:22,676 --> 00:23:23,516
Speaker 1: all right, it looks.

540
00:23:23,356 --> 00:23:25,436
Speaker 4: Like you just put the camera up here and hopefully

541
00:23:25,476 --> 00:23:28,876
Speaker 4: the acoustics sound good. And like, my biggest nightmare is

542
00:23:28,996 --> 00:23:31,956
Speaker 4: editing the lyrics on the screen, Like I cannot stand

543
00:23:31,996 --> 00:23:33,676
Speaker 4: making the lyrics on the screen because then you.

544
00:23:33,676 --> 00:23:35,516
Speaker 1: Get one wrong to wash the whole video again.

545
00:23:36,116 --> 00:23:38,236
Speaker 4: Back then, when I started, I was kind of just like, look,

546
00:23:38,716 --> 00:23:41,796
Speaker 4: I'm making music and I'm a sucker for validation, and

547
00:23:41,836 --> 00:23:44,196
Speaker 4: so let's see what people think of this little idea.

548
00:23:43,756 --> 00:23:46,196
Speaker 4: And what was so cool was that I really did

549
00:23:46,356 --> 00:23:49,036
Speaker 4: inspire confidence in me and the response.

550
00:23:49,196 --> 00:23:51,276
Speaker 1: You know, any response is helpful for me.

551
00:23:51,436 --> 00:23:53,516
Speaker 4: People not liking it was like okay, like they don't

552
00:23:53,556 --> 00:23:55,036
Speaker 4: like that one, do I like it enough to keep

553
00:23:55,076 --> 00:23:56,156
Speaker 4: it going like yeah.

554
00:23:55,996 --> 00:23:57,396
Speaker 1: And sometimes I had to be like I don't care

555
00:23:57,436 --> 00:23:59,156
Speaker 1: what they think. And then I put the full version on.

556
00:23:59,236 --> 00:23:59,796
Speaker 1: People loved it.

557
00:23:59,836 --> 00:24:01,756
Speaker 4: So it was a way to kind of you know,

558
00:24:01,836 --> 00:24:03,956
Speaker 4: road like the road testing when there was no road

559
00:24:03,996 --> 00:24:04,916
Speaker 4: to testimon.

560
00:24:04,876 --> 00:24:07,876
Speaker 3: Yeah, you like crowdsourcing stuff. And then how seriously do

561
00:24:07,876 --> 00:24:09,636
Speaker 3: you take the comments because I'm sure there's like a

562
00:24:09,676 --> 00:24:14,196
Speaker 3: lot of conflicting opinions, like would you actually mold stuff

563
00:24:14,236 --> 00:24:15,996
Speaker 3: based on feedback you were getting?

564
00:24:16,956 --> 00:24:18,156
Speaker 1: No, No, not really.

565
00:24:18,276 --> 00:24:20,276
Speaker 4: I think like I would say, okay, like there seems

566
00:24:20,276 --> 00:24:22,796
Speaker 4: to be a positive response to this. A lot of times,

567
00:24:22,836 --> 00:24:24,956
Speaker 4: I would, you know, for like a song like Homesick,

568
00:24:24,996 --> 00:24:27,076
Speaker 4: I was trying to be really specific about New England,

569
00:24:27,076 --> 00:24:28,916
Speaker 4: about my town, and.

570
00:24:28,516 --> 00:24:29,876
Speaker 1: I was worried that it wouldn't come across.

571
00:24:29,916 --> 00:24:32,116
Speaker 4: So when people were like, oh, like, I'm getting this

572
00:24:32,196 --> 00:24:34,876
Speaker 4: idea that you had, it inspired me to finish writing

573
00:24:34,876 --> 00:24:37,516
Speaker 4: the song with the same level of specificity instead of

574
00:24:37,556 --> 00:24:39,716
Speaker 4: being of making it more vague or trying to be

575
00:24:39,716 --> 00:24:40,316
Speaker 4: more relatable.

576
00:24:40,436 --> 00:24:43,556
Speaker 1: It did help, you know, influence the intention.

577
00:24:43,716 --> 00:24:46,476
Speaker 4: I never like would change lyrics or anything like that,

578
00:24:46,876 --> 00:24:49,356
Speaker 4: but I definitely feel like the input that I got

579
00:24:49,436 --> 00:24:53,356
Speaker 4: was helpful. Yeah, you know, and comments sometimes like if

580
00:24:53,396 --> 00:24:55,316
Speaker 4: I got a hurtful comment, like I would feel hurt

581
00:24:55,396 --> 00:24:55,796
Speaker 4: for sure.

582
00:24:56,036 --> 00:24:57,596
Speaker 1: Yeah, I always say, like I must.

583
00:24:57,676 --> 00:25:03,156
Speaker 4: I do feel like hurt by hurtful comments and by

584
00:25:03,196 --> 00:25:05,956
Speaker 4: people being mean or someone you know.

585
00:25:06,116 --> 00:25:08,396
Speaker 1: I get it, Like I get why people do that.

586
00:25:08,396 --> 00:25:10,076
Speaker 4: You scroll across the video that like you didn't want

587
00:25:10,076 --> 00:25:12,596
Speaker 4: to see and you're like, fuck you asshole, and you're like, Okay,

588
00:25:13,196 --> 00:25:15,596
Speaker 4: you don't think about what it might be, how it

589
00:25:15,636 --> 00:25:16,396
Speaker 4: might be received.

590
00:25:16,516 --> 00:25:19,316
Speaker 3: Totally. I don't know if you ever left hurtful comments

591
00:25:19,356 --> 00:25:22,636
Speaker 3: for anybody. But now that you're like public and you're

592
00:25:22,676 --> 00:25:25,116
Speaker 3: out there and you're reading comments about yourself, has that

593
00:25:25,196 --> 00:25:26,276
Speaker 3: changed the way that you comment.

594
00:25:26,996 --> 00:25:29,036
Speaker 4: I think in my past I probably did, like I

595
00:25:29,716 --> 00:25:32,876
Speaker 4: was just like a kid, like everybody else, and I

596
00:25:32,916 --> 00:25:35,156
Speaker 4: know what it's like to now that I know what

597
00:25:35,196 --> 00:25:39,356
Speaker 4: it's like to be hurt like that, Yeah, it really

598
00:25:39,396 --> 00:25:41,076
Speaker 4: makes you think about how you talk to people.

599
00:25:41,636 --> 00:25:42,956
Speaker 1: I still feel I.

600
00:25:43,476 --> 00:25:46,276
Speaker 4: Can read the hundred positive comments and one negative comment

601
00:25:46,316 --> 00:25:48,436
Speaker 4: like just fucks me up, and it sucks.

602
00:25:48,236 --> 00:25:49,756
Speaker 1: Because you're like, you're so wrong.

603
00:25:49,876 --> 00:25:51,356
Speaker 4: I want to get into the weeds with this person

604
00:25:51,396 --> 00:25:53,036
Speaker 4: and be like, well, this is why you're an asshole,

605
00:25:53,036 --> 00:25:54,796
Speaker 4: and this is why you're wrong. I'm like, And then

606
00:25:54,796 --> 00:25:56,476
Speaker 4: you do that, and you've aloady lost you know, You've

607
00:25:56,596 --> 00:25:59,036
Speaker 4: you've lost time, and you've lost confidence.

608
00:25:59,356 --> 00:26:00,956
Speaker 1: So I try to just do my best to not

609
00:26:01,036 --> 00:26:02,196
Speaker 1: see them and not look at them.

610
00:26:02,556 --> 00:26:06,116
Speaker 4: Yeah, what always helps me is when I I have

611
00:26:06,276 --> 00:26:07,676
Speaker 4: been in a place where you feel the need to

612
00:26:07,756 --> 00:26:09,676
Speaker 4: lash out of people and to be hurtful people, and

613
00:26:09,716 --> 00:26:13,356
Speaker 4: I know how lonely and fucking awful that that space

614
00:26:13,636 --> 00:26:16,316
Speaker 4: feels and how empty it is, And so I think

615
00:26:16,756 --> 00:26:18,356
Speaker 4: when I see someone leave a comment like that, I

616
00:26:18,476 --> 00:26:21,596
Speaker 4: try to zoom in into their bedroom and like look

617
00:26:21,636 --> 00:26:23,036
Speaker 4: at them and be like, what are you going through

618
00:26:23,076 --> 00:26:23,436
Speaker 4: right now?

619
00:26:23,476 --> 00:26:26,796
Speaker 1: Do you really need me coming back and shitting on

620
00:26:26,836 --> 00:26:27,476
Speaker 1: you right back?

621
00:26:27,596 --> 00:26:29,156
Speaker 4: Or like do this person maybe just need to get

622
00:26:29,196 --> 00:26:32,036
Speaker 4: that anger and pain out And if I can accept

623
00:26:32,076 --> 00:26:34,116
Speaker 4: that and move on from that and it makes you

624
00:26:34,116 --> 00:26:36,636
Speaker 4: feel better, that sucks for you and that's what you're doing.

625
00:26:36,636 --> 00:26:38,276
Speaker 4: But I'm not going to stand in a way or

626
00:26:38,556 --> 00:26:40,596
Speaker 4: whatever your processing, man, like you got shit to deal with.

627
00:26:41,356 --> 00:26:43,556
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that, by the way, Like I bing

628
00:26:43,636 --> 00:26:46,036
Speaker 3: sure tiktoks. I watch all of them, and there was

629
00:26:46,156 --> 00:26:48,356
Speaker 3: one where I think it was some sort of like

630
00:26:49,636 --> 00:26:54,356
Speaker 3: maybe like an eating disorder awareness months post and I

631
00:26:54,476 --> 00:26:58,596
Speaker 3: just really appreciate that you talk about just struggles that

632
00:26:58,636 --> 00:27:01,596
Speaker 3: you've had or because we don't normally hear guys talk

633
00:27:01,636 --> 00:27:05,156
Speaker 3: about body image issues or you know, eating disorders or

634
00:27:05,196 --> 00:27:07,236
Speaker 3: anything like that. So I just really appreciated that.

635
00:27:08,396 --> 00:27:08,756
Speaker 1: Thanks.

636
00:27:09,196 --> 00:27:12,876
Speaker 4: Yeah, that song, I never ever talked to anybody about

637
00:27:12,916 --> 00:27:15,636
Speaker 4: that still even really, and so that song was kind

638
00:27:15,676 --> 00:27:19,196
Speaker 4: of surprised me with how I felt about how real

639
00:27:19,236 --> 00:27:20,796
Speaker 4: it felt for me and how true it felt my

640
00:27:20,836 --> 00:27:23,196
Speaker 4: experience listening to that song and being like, man, I'm

641
00:27:24,076 --> 00:27:25,956
Speaker 4: I've never had an outlet for this feeling ever. I've

642
00:27:25,956 --> 00:27:28,036
Speaker 4: done with therapy for a long time, and I've made

643
00:27:28,036 --> 00:27:30,836
Speaker 4: a lot of progress in my own life, I think,

644
00:27:30,956 --> 00:27:31,956
Speaker 4: but that's something.

645
00:27:31,716 --> 00:27:33,276
Speaker 1: That that still haven't been touched on.

646
00:27:33,356 --> 00:27:37,436
Speaker 4: And so it felt like it surprised my lyrics and

647
00:27:37,516 --> 00:27:39,556
Speaker 4: like the guy, I guess, the vulnerability and some of

648
00:27:39,596 --> 00:27:42,636
Speaker 4: those lyrics surprised me. And I won't name names, but

649
00:27:42,636 --> 00:27:46,036
Speaker 4: I played that song on tour. I did it for

650
00:27:46,036 --> 00:27:48,676
Speaker 4: the first time. It's really just a heavy song. To

651
00:27:48,676 --> 00:27:50,956
Speaker 4: play it tard for me to play it. So I

652
00:27:50,956 --> 00:27:53,236
Speaker 4: played it once for a World Mental Health Day, and

653
00:27:54,036 --> 00:27:57,396
Speaker 4: people in my crew, guys on my tour, you know,

654
00:27:57,716 --> 00:28:00,676
Speaker 4: tough guys and guys that didn't say watch, didn't speak much,

655
00:28:01,196 --> 00:28:03,996
Speaker 4: probably took me aside to thank you for talking about that.

656
00:28:04,356 --> 00:28:06,076
Speaker 1: And I don't want to keep the conversation video. This

657
00:28:06,156 --> 00:28:08,876
Speaker 1: is just a male problem. It's absolutely not, but yeah,

658
00:28:08,916 --> 00:28:09,636
Speaker 1: it's it is.

659
00:28:09,676 --> 00:28:12,436
Speaker 4: I think more rare, at least in my experience and

660
00:28:12,436 --> 00:28:14,956
Speaker 4: my exposure that for men to talk about these things.

661
00:28:16,236 --> 00:28:17,756
Speaker 4: And so I saw that in real time what the

662
00:28:17,756 --> 00:28:21,956
Speaker 4: impact might be for men struggling with eating disorders, and

663
00:28:22,036 --> 00:28:24,436
Speaker 4: that was something that was really encouraging. To feel like

664
00:28:24,436 --> 00:28:28,556
Speaker 4: I had this really painful, painful song and painful feeling

665
00:28:28,596 --> 00:28:31,876
Speaker 4: that I wasn't alone in for a second was really nice.

666
00:28:32,236 --> 00:28:34,436
Speaker 3: How has it been for you performing on TV? Like

667
00:28:34,516 --> 00:28:36,796
Speaker 3: dealing with things like that and knowing that you've had

668
00:28:36,916 --> 00:28:40,116
Speaker 3: issues in your past, Like you know, you recently played SNL,

669
00:28:40,156 --> 00:28:42,396
Speaker 3: which is fucking awesome and it sounds like it was

670
00:28:42,436 --> 00:28:45,156
Speaker 3: always a dream for you and you guys killed it.

671
00:28:45,196 --> 00:28:49,676
Speaker 3: You sounded so good and you had your hair slicked back.

672
00:28:49,756 --> 00:28:52,436
Speaker 1: It was kind of like Samurai the Samurai Bambook.

673
00:28:54,116 --> 00:28:56,036
Speaker 3: But how is that for you seeing yourself on TV?

674
00:28:56,196 --> 00:28:59,276
Speaker 3: Do you like pick yourself apart? Are you proud of yourself?

675
00:28:59,356 --> 00:29:01,796
Speaker 3: Like what's the reaction internally for you?

676
00:29:02,676 --> 00:29:04,556
Speaker 4: Well, I've done a lot of them at this point now,

677
00:29:04,596 --> 00:29:06,316
Speaker 4: so I feel like I used to pick myself apart

678
00:29:06,356 --> 00:29:09,316
Speaker 4: a lot more. It's so interesting, Like I get hair

679
00:29:09,356 --> 00:29:11,116
Speaker 4: and makeup done, and the hair and makeup people and

680
00:29:11,156 --> 00:29:13,036
Speaker 4: everyone is like, that's how it looks great. We just

681
00:29:13,036 --> 00:29:14,836
Speaker 4: did your hair and makeup, Like, oh, I think that

682
00:29:14,836 --> 00:29:17,196
Speaker 4: looks awful. So I think my opinion on like what

683
00:29:17,916 --> 00:29:20,076
Speaker 4: is attractive or what is like good. It's different than

684
00:29:20,076 --> 00:29:23,156
Speaker 4: like what the greater publics is. So I like go

685
00:29:23,196 --> 00:29:24,676
Speaker 4: and be like, man, I should like wore my hair

686
00:29:24,716 --> 00:29:26,636
Speaker 4: down and like throw it across my face and people

687
00:29:26,636 --> 00:29:28,076
Speaker 4: are like no, like pull your hair back.

688
00:29:28,156 --> 00:29:30,396
Speaker 1: So I feel like I try and not.

689
00:29:30,356 --> 00:29:32,556
Speaker 4: Pick myself apart and trust that people that are in

690
00:29:32,636 --> 00:29:34,676
Speaker 4: charge of making me look good have done a good job.

691
00:29:34,916 --> 00:29:38,076
Speaker 1: But it is it is hard to see myself on stage.

692
00:29:38,116 --> 00:29:40,196
Speaker 4: It just is weird. It's like unnatural. I think you

693
00:29:40,236 --> 00:29:43,156
Speaker 4: observe myself, especially when I'm like in that moment in SNL,

694
00:29:43,156 --> 00:29:44,916
Speaker 4: I was trying to have fun and hang out my

695
00:29:44,956 --> 00:29:47,796
Speaker 4: band and enjoy the moment so much that like looking

696
00:29:47,796 --> 00:29:50,436
Speaker 4: at that and analyzing that like it doesn't help me

697
00:29:50,516 --> 00:29:53,236
Speaker 4: at all. I think being critical of what you look

698
00:29:53,316 --> 00:29:56,876
Speaker 4: like in a moment of letting go is probably not healthy,

699
00:29:56,956 --> 00:29:59,476
Speaker 4: so I try not to. But I was really happy

700
00:29:59,516 --> 00:30:01,876
Speaker 4: because I saw myself and I was like, that is

701
00:30:01,916 --> 00:30:03,116
Speaker 4: me when I'm having a good time.

702
00:30:03,396 --> 00:30:05,396
Speaker 3: Yeah, you look like you're having a great time.

703
00:30:05,836 --> 00:30:09,716
Speaker 4: It wasn't like faux excitement or like you know, bullshit,

704
00:30:10,116 --> 00:30:12,876
Speaker 4: like smarmy, charmy shit, And it's like I was having

705
00:30:12,876 --> 00:30:14,876
Speaker 4: a fucking blast hanging out in my band and my buddies,

706
00:30:14,916 --> 00:30:16,716
Speaker 4: and that I was happy.

707
00:30:16,436 --> 00:30:17,636
Speaker 1: To see that come through in the way that I

708
00:30:17,676 --> 00:30:19,556
Speaker 1: felt that on stage, What was like.

709
00:30:19,516 --> 00:30:21,956
Speaker 3: The behind the scenes like at SNL, like did you

710
00:30:21,956 --> 00:30:24,196
Speaker 3: get to go to the after party? And what was

711
00:30:24,236 --> 00:30:26,876
Speaker 3: it like being the live musical act?

712
00:30:27,676 --> 00:30:29,836
Speaker 1: SNAW was a trip. It was like a full on

713
00:30:29,916 --> 00:30:31,076
Speaker 1: the entire thing with a trip.

714
00:30:31,516 --> 00:30:33,876
Speaker 4: I had been home from tour for about a week

715
00:30:34,076 --> 00:30:36,996
Speaker 4: and was kind of finally starting to feel like in

716
00:30:37,076 --> 00:30:40,316
Speaker 4: my human not everything it's about me mode, where like

717
00:30:40,396 --> 00:30:42,396
Speaker 4: you're no longer like promoting yourself on the road, and

718
00:30:42,396 --> 00:30:45,116
Speaker 4: I was kind of withdrawing from like this the uh

719
00:30:45,756 --> 00:30:48,436
Speaker 4: outward talking to a lot of people when I was quiet,

720
00:30:48,436 --> 00:30:50,796
Speaker 4: And then suddenly it was like down the New York

721
00:30:50,876 --> 00:30:53,076
Speaker 4: you're in the fitting in the green room, you're about

722
00:30:53,076 --> 00:30:55,236
Speaker 4: to do the sound the sound check, and you know,

723
00:30:55,356 --> 00:30:57,476
Speaker 4: like there's all these famous people on the walls and

724
00:30:57,516 --> 00:30:59,196
Speaker 4: you don't really even have time to process it. And

725
00:30:59,236 --> 00:31:02,396
Speaker 4: then it's like pressing promo like Noah, like how did

726
00:31:02,436 --> 00:31:04,396
Speaker 4: it feel a good? Like all these questions about me,

727
00:31:04,516 --> 00:31:06,316
Speaker 4: and I started to be like I felt like I

728
00:31:06,396 --> 00:31:08,196
Speaker 4: was like waking up from a long nap of like,

729
00:31:08,236 --> 00:31:10,796
Speaker 4: oh fuck, I gotta go back into this like talk

730
00:31:10,836 --> 00:31:12,876
Speaker 4: about Noah mode again. And so it took me a

731
00:31:12,876 --> 00:31:13,716
Speaker 4: little bit to adjust.

732
00:31:13,916 --> 00:31:15,716
Speaker 3: Is it like a week long process.

733
00:31:16,036 --> 00:31:18,236
Speaker 4: So Wednesday night we got there and we had the

734
00:31:18,236 --> 00:31:20,116
Speaker 4: fitting order of fitting Wednesday at the hotel and then

735
00:31:20,156 --> 00:31:22,516
Speaker 4: Thursday is like the first day of a rehearsal and

736
00:31:22,596 --> 00:31:25,796
Speaker 4: sound check and they filmed the promos and oh dude,

737
00:31:25,796 --> 00:31:27,876
Speaker 4: filming the promo was so bad. I was like one

738
00:31:27,876 --> 00:31:31,436
Speaker 4: of the maybe one of the most embarrassed moments of

739
00:31:31,476 --> 00:31:34,356
Speaker 4: my career was you know, they have like a little

740
00:31:34,396 --> 00:31:36,316
Speaker 4: script they made for me that I got like literally

741
00:31:36,396 --> 00:31:38,956
Speaker 4: five seconds before I had to do it. Emma Stone

742
00:31:39,036 --> 00:31:43,156
Speaker 4: is right there with the other actor, Sarah Sherman, and

743
00:31:44,036 --> 00:31:45,396
Speaker 4: they were standing there in front of the camera and

744
00:31:45,436 --> 00:31:47,396
Speaker 4: I was like learning my lines on it's just shoved

745
00:31:47,436 --> 00:31:49,116
Speaker 4: on stage next to them and like wow.

746
00:31:49,236 --> 00:31:51,476
Speaker 1: So I was so anxious and do you.

747
00:31:51,356 --> 00:31:54,156
Speaker 3: Have acting chops? Like did you know how to deliver

748
00:31:54,276 --> 00:31:54,636
Speaker 3: a lot?

749
00:31:55,636 --> 00:31:56,956
Speaker 4: So this is the thing I always thought that I

750
00:31:56,996 --> 00:31:59,516
Speaker 4: was like my band members, you got to get into acting,

751
00:31:59,596 --> 00:32:02,036
Speaker 4: and like I always found myself to beat I would

752
00:32:02,116 --> 00:32:03,076
Speaker 4: you know not the two man horn.

753
00:32:03,116 --> 00:32:04,756
Speaker 1: I think I like I know my way around a joke.

754
00:32:04,796 --> 00:32:06,196
Speaker 1: I think I could be a little funny. I can.

755
00:32:06,396 --> 00:32:08,596
Speaker 4: I got some dead pan shit going on, So I

756
00:32:08,636 --> 00:32:10,796
Speaker 4: was like, you, I could crush this acting shit. It's

757
00:32:10,796 --> 00:32:12,836
Speaker 4: it's easy to fucking just say some shit and be

758
00:32:12,876 --> 00:32:16,076
Speaker 4: funny and look funny. And I got on there and

759
00:32:16,756 --> 00:32:20,516
Speaker 4: have never felt less in my elements and more nervous.

760
00:32:20,596 --> 00:32:22,956
Speaker 4: I was reading and I felt like I was like

761
00:32:23,676 --> 00:32:25,716
Speaker 4: looking at like a power point and trying to read

762
00:32:25,756 --> 00:32:26,236
Speaker 4: off the world.

763
00:32:26,276 --> 00:32:28,436
Speaker 1: It was so bad. I felt so unnatural.

764
00:32:28,756 --> 00:32:30,556
Speaker 4: So I just like went in the nervous, you know,

765
00:32:30,596 --> 00:32:33,156
Speaker 4: survival mode and read the lines and didn't like improve

766
00:32:33,196 --> 00:32:35,476
Speaker 4: it all. And so that was a tough one and

767
00:32:35,516 --> 00:32:37,476
Speaker 4: it kind of made me feel like I was cursed.

768
00:32:38,756 --> 00:32:40,356
Speaker 4: I kind of felt like the whole weekend was gonna

769
00:32:40,436 --> 00:32:41,756
Speaker 4: I was like, I was like, well, I just embarrassed

770
00:32:41,756 --> 00:32:43,516
Speaker 4: myself in part of most of the crew, some of

771
00:32:43,556 --> 00:32:46,156
Speaker 4: the cast, And on Saturday, I embarrassed myself in front

772
00:32:46,156 --> 00:32:47,636
Speaker 4: of all of the crew and all the cast and

773
00:32:47,716 --> 00:32:50,516
Speaker 4: all of America as well. Like my mind, I was

774
00:32:50,596 --> 00:32:54,316
Speaker 4: so negative, you know, like this is a bad element. Yeah,

775
00:32:54,636 --> 00:32:57,596
Speaker 4: just a little glimpse into my confidence, just like I'm

776
00:32:57,596 --> 00:32:58,276
Speaker 4: gonna suck.

777
00:32:58,116 --> 00:32:58,596
Speaker 1: No matter what.

778
00:32:59,036 --> 00:33:01,156
Speaker 4: And the next day was kind of nice. I gotta

779
00:33:01,196 --> 00:33:04,036
Speaker 4: like kind of recalibrate this. The clip was posted on

780
00:33:04,076 --> 00:33:07,276
Speaker 4: social media, people were generally nice. No one was like no,

781
00:33:07,356 --> 00:33:07,876
Speaker 4: one was like.

782
00:33:07,876 --> 00:33:09,076
Speaker 1: No, it's the worst actor. Everything.

783
00:33:09,116 --> 00:33:10,796
Speaker 4: The expectation was not that I was gonna be a

784
00:33:10,836 --> 00:33:13,156
Speaker 4: great actor, and so I swallowed the pill of not

785
00:33:13,276 --> 00:33:14,036
Speaker 4: being a great actor.

786
00:33:14,596 --> 00:33:16,036
Speaker 1: I was not ast to do any sketches.

787
00:33:16,196 --> 00:33:18,156
Speaker 4: I assume they saw the promo where like, this guy's

788
00:33:18,196 --> 00:33:19,716
Speaker 4: not going in a sketch, which means I don't have

789
00:33:19,716 --> 00:33:20,476
Speaker 4: to do that again.

790
00:33:20,636 --> 00:33:22,156
Speaker 1: Let's just get my head around the performance.

791
00:33:22,356 --> 00:33:25,236
Speaker 4: On the day of the performance, I was having trouble

792
00:33:25,316 --> 00:33:27,436
Speaker 4: my voice and was I always have trouble my voice,

793
00:33:27,436 --> 00:33:28,596
Speaker 4: and on the day of a big show, like I

794
00:33:28,596 --> 00:33:30,596
Speaker 4: always just like I feel like I'm a cold, like

795
00:33:30,596 --> 00:33:34,596
Speaker 4: I psychosomatic vibes, like my throat starts to hurt small damn.

796
00:33:34,636 --> 00:33:36,476
Speaker 4: It's like thinking about it and drinking water and like

797
00:33:36,516 --> 00:33:38,796
Speaker 4: trying to hide myself up. And I pulled up to

798
00:33:39,036 --> 00:33:42,356
Speaker 4: SNL wearing all black hat, sunglasses at the nighttime, like

799
00:33:42,396 --> 00:33:44,956
Speaker 4: superduche mode, like listening to push a tea in my headphones,

800
00:33:45,036 --> 00:33:46,876
Speaker 4: just trying to hype I was trying to feel confident.

801
00:33:47,756 --> 00:33:51,156
Speaker 3: It's like the dude in succession, Kendall Roy, literally.

802
00:33:50,756 --> 00:33:52,716
Speaker 4: Like Kendall Roy. Like they drove me in like one

803
00:33:52,716 --> 00:33:54,796
Speaker 4: of those nice town cars. The driver you like help

804
00:33:54,836 --> 00:33:55,916
Speaker 4: the door feel like, what's up?

805
00:33:55,956 --> 00:33:56,156
Speaker 1: Brother?

806
00:33:56,236 --> 00:33:58,076
Speaker 4: And then I get in and I'm listening to a

807
00:33:58,356 --> 00:34:01,196
Speaker 4: nostalgia I push a tea and and just trying to

808
00:34:01,236 --> 00:34:04,076
Speaker 4: make myself feel like Kendall Roy for a second. Yes,

809
00:34:04,396 --> 00:34:07,396
Speaker 4: So I was like, it's actually Kieran Colkin was actually

810
00:34:07,436 --> 00:34:08,516
Speaker 4: at the show that night, which is funny.

811
00:34:08,516 --> 00:34:11,236
Speaker 1: I probably should have that. Uh So we all we

812
00:34:11,276 --> 00:34:11,876
Speaker 1: went out and.

813
00:34:11,796 --> 00:34:14,876
Speaker 4: My my best friends were at the taping and I

814
00:34:14,876 --> 00:34:17,516
Speaker 4: saw them up there and we performed the first song

815
00:34:17,556 --> 00:34:20,076
Speaker 4: and we crushed it, and I think and had a

816
00:34:20,156 --> 00:34:20,716
Speaker 4: lot of fun.

817
00:34:21,516 --> 00:34:23,436
Speaker 1: And then before the second song.

818
00:34:23,276 --> 00:34:27,356
Speaker 4: Like my little brother was like, dude, Malia Obama, Miles Taylor,

819
00:34:27,396 --> 00:34:30,716
Speaker 4: Scarlett Johansson are all right there? What a crew and

820
00:34:30,836 --> 00:34:34,636
Speaker 4: watching the show and yeah, And so I was on

821
00:34:34,716 --> 00:34:37,676
Speaker 4: the second performance just thought it was so funny to

822
00:34:37,836 --> 00:34:39,356
Speaker 4: look up and see my high school friends.

823
00:34:39,356 --> 00:34:40,876
Speaker 1: Then they'll look down and see Miles Teller.

824
00:34:40,996 --> 00:34:43,836
Speaker 4: Like the contrast was just hilarious and it just made

825
00:34:43,836 --> 00:34:45,716
Speaker 4: it kind of fun and silly and we had a blast.

826
00:34:45,836 --> 00:34:48,836
Speaker 1: After party was very cool, like super overwhelming.

827
00:34:48,916 --> 00:34:51,356
Speaker 3: And where's it at, like at a like a club

828
00:34:51,516 --> 00:34:54,036
Speaker 3: or a restaurant or is it at the actual SNL.

829
00:34:54,676 --> 00:34:56,796
Speaker 1: I think it's actually at the Illuminati headquarters.

830
00:34:59,196 --> 00:35:00,556
Speaker 4: I think I had to I had to kind of

831
00:35:00,636 --> 00:35:02,156
Speaker 4: think on my wrist and like, I don't know, some

832
00:35:02,156 --> 00:35:03,676
Speaker 4: guy put my butt into a vial that I got

833
00:35:03,716 --> 00:35:07,556
Speaker 4: let in. Now I don't know, someone somewhere fancy and fancy.

834
00:35:07,596 --> 00:35:09,876
Speaker 4: They had like a menu with my name and almost

835
00:35:09,916 --> 00:35:12,476
Speaker 4: name on it, which is hilarious. Yeah, all sorts of

836
00:35:12,476 --> 00:35:16,116
Speaker 4: famous hot people milling around the room. Everyone looks famous,

837
00:35:16,156 --> 00:35:18,436
Speaker 4: Like it could have been the guy that like parks

838
00:35:18,436 --> 00:35:20,316
Speaker 4: the cards and like I would have assumed that he

839
00:35:20,436 --> 00:35:21,836
Speaker 4: was like an Oscar winning actor.

840
00:35:21,876 --> 00:35:24,876
Speaker 1: Everyone to me well successful, well groomed.

841
00:35:25,156 --> 00:35:27,396
Speaker 4: I felt like a fucking bron walking around there, like

842
00:35:27,916 --> 00:35:28,876
Speaker 4: my whole family by.

843
00:35:28,756 --> 00:35:31,156
Speaker 1: My side, We're all like, where should we go? And

844
00:35:32,196 --> 00:35:33,156
Speaker 1: you know it was cool.

845
00:35:34,236 --> 00:35:36,356
Speaker 2: We're gonna pause for another quick break and then we'll

846
00:35:36,356 --> 00:35:43,356
Speaker 2: come back with more from Noah Khan. We're back with

847
00:35:43,396 --> 00:35:46,436
Speaker 2: the rest of Leo Rose's conversation with Noah Khan.

848
00:35:47,636 --> 00:35:49,916
Speaker 3: So stick season must feel like it's like very much

849
00:35:49,916 --> 00:35:52,996
Speaker 3: in the rearview mirror, even though you're out on the road.

850
00:35:53,636 --> 00:35:55,516
Speaker 3: You just did a national tour, you're about to do

851
00:35:55,516 --> 00:35:59,156
Speaker 3: a worldwide tour playing the music. But what, like what

852
00:35:59,196 --> 00:36:00,716
Speaker 3: have you been working on? Like, what can you tell

853
00:36:00,796 --> 00:36:02,036
Speaker 3: us about new music?

854
00:36:03,516 --> 00:36:07,436
Speaker 4: We have a new song recorded called Forever that we've

855
00:36:07,476 --> 00:36:10,036
Speaker 4: been playing on the Road's that I just happened a

856
00:36:10,036 --> 00:36:10,556
Speaker 4: ton of time.

857
00:36:10,756 --> 00:36:13,036
Speaker 1: I've been writing new music, and I'm always writing and

858
00:36:13,076 --> 00:36:13,916
Speaker 1: working on new things.

859
00:36:13,956 --> 00:36:16,996
Speaker 4: But you know, I like the six season being such

860
00:36:17,036 --> 00:36:21,796
Speaker 4: a natural and like creatively fulfilling, you know, journey for

861
00:36:21,916 --> 00:36:24,636
Speaker 4: me is kind of like created this complex of like

862
00:36:24,676 --> 00:36:27,196
Speaker 4: I only wanted to be like that, And so I

863
00:36:27,316 --> 00:36:29,436
Speaker 4: simply haven't had a break in about a year. I

864
00:36:29,436 --> 00:36:30,996
Speaker 4: haven't had more than like a week off in a

865
00:36:31,036 --> 00:36:33,716
Speaker 4: long long time, and so I'm just kind of giving

866
00:36:33,756 --> 00:36:35,756
Speaker 4: myself the time I do get off to try to

867
00:36:35,756 --> 00:36:37,596
Speaker 4: find that feeling and try to find that feeling of

868
00:36:37,676 --> 00:36:41,356
Speaker 4: freedom and create creative fulfillment that I had back then,

869
00:36:41,556 --> 00:36:44,276
Speaker 4: and keeping new music or any commitments to like.

870
00:36:44,196 --> 00:36:45,836
Speaker 1: An album at at arm's length.

871
00:36:45,876 --> 00:36:48,556
Speaker 4: And so I feel wrapped around something in that same way,

872
00:36:48,636 --> 00:36:51,676
Speaker 4: but still working no more collaborations and just trying to

873
00:36:51,716 --> 00:36:53,076
Speaker 4: kind of find things to keep me excited.

874
00:36:53,436 --> 00:36:55,796
Speaker 3: Any new collaborations you can talk about. I'm waiting for

875
00:36:55,836 --> 00:36:58,356
Speaker 3: the Justin Vernon song to drop.

876
00:36:58,476 --> 00:37:00,396
Speaker 1: Yah Me and you both. I wish I could get

877
00:37:00,436 --> 00:37:01,316
Speaker 1: one with Justin Vernon.

878
00:37:01,476 --> 00:37:03,076
Speaker 3: Have you talked to him? Have you met him?

879
00:37:03,516 --> 00:37:04,316
Speaker 1: I haven't met Justin.

880
00:37:04,396 --> 00:37:07,716
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was one of the most cool, crazy nights

881
00:37:07,716 --> 00:37:08,116
Speaker 4: in my life.

882
00:37:08,156 --> 00:37:10,436
Speaker 1: I met him at hunter Land. He's my hero.

883
00:37:10,796 --> 00:37:12,516
Speaker 4: Getting to talk to him and getting a chance to

884
00:37:12,556 --> 00:37:14,396
Speaker 4: pick his brain about music and about the industry. It

885
00:37:14,556 --> 00:37:18,676
Speaker 4: was really interesting, a really cool experience. But I never

886
00:37:18,716 --> 00:37:20,236
Speaker 4: want to be that guy that's like, dude, it's so

887
00:37:20,276 --> 00:37:21,956
Speaker 4: cool hanging out with you, Like we got to get

888
00:37:21,956 --> 00:37:23,756
Speaker 4: a collab in the work, you know, Like that's.

889
00:37:23,956 --> 00:37:26,276
Speaker 3: Isn't that what people say? Though, Like you're like, hey,

890
00:37:26,436 --> 00:37:27,196
Speaker 3: like let's do.

891
00:37:27,116 --> 00:37:29,196
Speaker 1: Something, yes, And I hate it.

892
00:37:30,516 --> 00:37:32,676
Speaker 4: Let's get a transaction in here, man, Like now that

893
00:37:32,756 --> 00:37:35,356
Speaker 4: we hung out, like, let's do something that boosts my career.

894
00:37:36,556 --> 00:37:39,116
Speaker 4: I think that's that stuff grosses me as sometimes, so

895
00:37:39,236 --> 00:37:41,836
Speaker 4: I try to be careful about but I think at

896
00:37:41,836 --> 00:37:43,356
Speaker 4: some point in the future, I would absolutely love to

897
00:37:43,356 --> 00:37:44,076
Speaker 4: collaborate with Justin.

898
00:37:44,076 --> 00:37:46,076
Speaker 1: If you was ever interested in doing that. But we have,

899
00:37:46,516 --> 00:37:48,476
Speaker 1: you know, at least three more.

900
00:37:48,356 --> 00:37:51,156
Speaker 4: More collaborations coming that are are really cool and with

901
00:37:51,276 --> 00:37:55,156
Speaker 4: artists that I adore and that everyone adoors, and I

902
00:37:55,196 --> 00:37:56,956
Speaker 4: am excited for the world to see them.

903
00:37:57,076 --> 00:38:00,556
Speaker 3: How are you feeling about the way that you've been

904
00:38:00,676 --> 00:38:04,956
Speaker 3: covered or the way your story is written about. I

905
00:38:04,996 --> 00:38:07,156
Speaker 3: know the New York Times just did a big piece

906
00:38:07,436 --> 00:38:10,276
Speaker 3: on you. You were on the front cover of the Times.

907
00:38:10,316 --> 00:38:12,396
Speaker 3: I saw at least the digital version. You were like

908
00:38:12,796 --> 00:38:17,036
Speaker 3: right up there next to like Trump or something. How

909
00:38:17,036 --> 00:38:19,716
Speaker 3: are you feeling about the way your story is being told?

910
00:38:20,796 --> 00:38:25,316
Speaker 4: I think like there's always gonna be a framework in

911
00:38:25,356 --> 00:38:28,356
Speaker 4: which people want to talk about you, just because it's

912
00:38:28,796 --> 00:38:32,996
Speaker 4: if you just get down to the complete and total story,

913
00:38:33,356 --> 00:38:36,756
Speaker 4: you lose a form of narrative. I know, people, you

914
00:38:36,796 --> 00:38:39,796
Speaker 4: know the reference if you're bringing back this era that

915
00:38:39,876 --> 00:38:41,236
Speaker 4: nobody wants anymore, and.

916
00:38:41,796 --> 00:38:44,476
Speaker 1: To feel like that is like a negative connotation. For

917
00:38:44,516 --> 00:38:46,116
Speaker 1: some reason, it's been confusing to me.

918
00:38:46,436 --> 00:38:48,356
Speaker 4: I know that the pendulum really swung away from that

919
00:38:48,476 --> 00:38:50,676
Speaker 4: in a musical way in terms of what was happening

920
00:38:50,716 --> 00:38:53,476
Speaker 4: on the radio after like the you know, mid early

921
00:38:53,516 --> 00:38:56,476
Speaker 4: mid twenty tens. But I always found that music to

922
00:38:56,516 --> 00:39:00,916
Speaker 4: be really well written and incredibly powerful. So to hear

923
00:39:00,956 --> 00:39:04,476
Speaker 4: that as a as maybe an attempt at an insult

924
00:39:04,676 --> 00:39:07,316
Speaker 4: or a criticism, or like a God, we're so tired

925
00:39:07,356 --> 00:39:07,676
Speaker 4: of this shit.

926
00:39:07,836 --> 00:39:08,996
Speaker 1: I feel bad for.

927
00:39:08,956 --> 00:39:11,916
Speaker 4: The people will put their livelihood into making that music

928
00:39:11,956 --> 00:39:13,796
Speaker 4: because I care about it a lot and I think

929
00:39:13,796 --> 00:39:17,556
Speaker 4: it's important, and you know, that's been my only qualm.

930
00:39:18,116 --> 00:39:20,836
Speaker 4: I am happy to be being covered. I think it's

931
00:39:20,876 --> 00:39:22,356
Speaker 4: it's cool that people will care enough.

932
00:39:22,196 --> 00:39:22,836
Speaker 1: To talk about me.

933
00:39:23,556 --> 00:39:24,956
Speaker 4: My friends from New Hampshire, I sa I lived in

934
00:39:24,996 --> 00:39:28,356
Speaker 4: New Hampshire and Vermont, and people from New Hampshire like,

935
00:39:28,396 --> 00:39:30,076
Speaker 4: you're not from Vermont, people from Verma, you're not.

936
00:39:29,996 --> 00:39:33,636
Speaker 1: From New Hampshire. That's that regional tension. If definitely there.

937
00:39:33,676 --> 00:39:36,516
Speaker 4: I've had to do better job of being clear. You know,

938
00:39:36,556 --> 00:39:39,356
Speaker 4: I'll talk to someone, you know, from California or somebody

939
00:39:39,356 --> 00:39:40,396
Speaker 4: from New York and they're.

940
00:39:40,196 --> 00:39:43,596
Speaker 1: Like, we don't give a shit, Like you're in Canada,

941
00:39:43,596 --> 00:39:45,716
Speaker 1: we don't give a buck. Yeah.

942
00:39:46,516 --> 00:39:49,276
Speaker 4: Again, I think it's the nature of you know, being

943
00:39:49,316 --> 00:39:54,396
Speaker 4: a white male singer songwriter isn't exactly a unique place

944
00:39:54,436 --> 00:39:56,236
Speaker 4: to be. I think there's been many of me, at

945
00:39:56,316 --> 00:39:58,516
Speaker 4: least this kind of this kind of vibe white guy

946
00:39:58,556 --> 00:39:59,036
Speaker 4: with a guitar.

947
00:39:59,556 --> 00:40:01,716
Speaker 1: So I think feelings with feelings, right, you know.

948
00:40:01,716 --> 00:40:03,756
Speaker 4: They said it an article of the most Pop Music's

949
00:40:03,796 --> 00:40:04,956
Speaker 4: Newest Sensitive Woodsman.

950
00:40:05,076 --> 00:40:08,356
Speaker 1: I think an author writer wants to find.

951
00:40:08,116 --> 00:40:11,716
Speaker 4: A way to make your story seem specific and to

952
00:40:11,796 --> 00:40:12,836
Speaker 4: seem like it separates you.

953
00:40:12,916 --> 00:40:14,516
Speaker 1: And so I think they're coming to a small challee,

954
00:40:14,636 --> 00:40:15,476
Speaker 1: come to my house.

955
00:40:15,276 --> 00:40:18,796
Speaker 4: And they're talking about how that looks and how that

956
00:40:18,876 --> 00:40:20,796
Speaker 4: feels unique to my experience.

957
00:40:21,116 --> 00:40:23,316
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like the way I've been covered has

958
00:40:23,316 --> 00:40:24,036
Speaker 1: been very there.

959
00:40:24,316 --> 00:40:28,756
Speaker 4: I think I shy away from making myself a story.

960
00:40:28,836 --> 00:40:30,836
Speaker 4: I just I do like to have my life be

961
00:40:30,836 --> 00:40:33,436
Speaker 4: about the music and have my career be about the music.

962
00:40:33,476 --> 00:40:36,636
Speaker 4: And if that's not enough to be on the national

963
00:40:36,676 --> 00:40:39,356
Speaker 4: headlines and I'll just play for a thousand people and

964
00:40:39,436 --> 00:40:42,156
Speaker 4: be boring, I'm fine with that. I think I've kind

965
00:40:42,156 --> 00:40:44,396
Speaker 4: of been thrust in this world of like a mass

966
00:40:44,436 --> 00:40:47,836
Speaker 4: exposure that I'm still learning to handle and learning how

967
00:40:47,876 --> 00:40:49,676
Speaker 4: to how to navigate.

968
00:40:51,156 --> 00:40:52,116
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's it's hard.

969
00:40:52,156 --> 00:40:55,236
Speaker 4: It's a really weird process to describe if you haven't

970
00:40:55,316 --> 00:40:58,436
Speaker 4: been through it. Yeah, I think what's what's hard is

971
00:40:59,756 --> 00:41:02,156
Speaker 4: just never feeling like I'm alone, Like I'm already the

972
00:41:02,196 --> 00:41:04,236
Speaker 4: guy that like when I smoke weed, I'm like everybody

973
00:41:04,436 --> 00:41:06,996
Speaker 4: looking at me, you know. And and so I'll get

974
00:41:06,996 --> 00:41:09,836
Speaker 4: off an airport in Boston and Vermont or wherever and

975
00:41:09,836 --> 00:41:12,196
Speaker 4: be like, oh everyone, I think people here actually are

976
00:41:12,236 --> 00:41:12,716
Speaker 4: looking at me.

977
00:41:12,836 --> 00:41:15,156
Speaker 1: And that's like an overexposed feeling.

978
00:41:15,196 --> 00:41:18,156
Speaker 4: And then you find yourself like acting different because you're

979
00:41:18,236 --> 00:41:19,596
Speaker 4: you know, like if people are watching you, that you

980
00:41:19,636 --> 00:41:21,836
Speaker 4: want to come across as being normal looking or like

981
00:41:21,996 --> 00:41:24,756
Speaker 4: not ticking your nose or fucking wiping your hands in your.

982
00:41:24,716 --> 00:41:27,916
Speaker 1: Shirt or whatever. Like you feel like you're performing all

983
00:41:27,916 --> 00:41:28,236
Speaker 1: the time.

984
00:41:28,276 --> 00:41:31,236
Speaker 4: And I fucking I I don't know, I don't have

985
00:41:31,316 --> 00:41:32,356
Speaker 4: I don't have much to say.

986
00:41:32,556 --> 00:41:33,196
Speaker 1: Most of the time.

987
00:41:33,236 --> 00:41:35,716
Speaker 4: I'm kind of just like a grumpy dude walking around

988
00:41:35,756 --> 00:41:38,916
Speaker 4: the world. Like for example, yes, two days ago, I

989
00:41:39,036 --> 00:41:42,556
Speaker 4: was in the car driving to another interview and uh

990
00:41:42,596 --> 00:41:45,956
Speaker 4: in Nashville, and this person behind you was like tailgating

991
00:41:45,996 --> 00:41:48,436
Speaker 4: me like a fucking psycho, and I was like, oh,

992
00:41:48,436 --> 00:41:51,676
Speaker 4: my god, it's just by driving like a nut job.

993
00:41:52,116 --> 00:41:54,676
Speaker 4: They passed me and they're super close and swerving in

994
00:41:54,716 --> 00:41:56,156
Speaker 4: and out, and like, what the fuck you doing? Look

995
00:41:56,196 --> 00:41:57,876
Speaker 4: out my window, very New England, not out my window,

996
00:41:57,876 --> 00:41:59,916
Speaker 4: but at my window, and they look over and they're

997
00:41:59,956 --> 00:42:02,236
Speaker 4: just filming me, and I was like, oh my god,

998
00:42:02,516 --> 00:42:03,636
Speaker 4: it's like I'm on the Truman Show.

999
00:42:03,676 --> 00:42:03,876
Speaker 1: Dude.

1000
00:42:03,916 --> 00:42:07,356
Speaker 4: Like I'm like, I can't have an authentic angry experience

1001
00:42:07,756 --> 00:42:11,196
Speaker 4: or like emotional response to something. I'm so worried about

1002
00:42:11,196 --> 00:42:14,316
Speaker 4: it being like someone that's a fan or like hurting

1003
00:42:14,316 --> 00:42:16,556
Speaker 4: their feelings. They're coming across it being a dick or whatever.

1004
00:42:16,636 --> 00:42:19,316
Speaker 4: But I was so exhausting, gonna kill me. I'm exhausted,

1005
00:42:19,356 --> 00:42:21,756
Speaker 4: I'm tired. I'm tired of I can't get killed in

1006
00:42:21,796 --> 00:42:23,636
Speaker 4: traffic just because I want to be polite, you know.

1007
00:42:24,236 --> 00:42:26,316
Speaker 3: Yeah, And then it makes you understand. I'm sure now

1008
00:42:26,356 --> 00:42:29,076
Speaker 3: you have like a different level of understanding why some

1009
00:42:29,196 --> 00:42:32,756
Speaker 3: people like who are in the public eye or people

1010
00:42:32,756 --> 00:42:34,836
Speaker 3: who are like super famous, like end up the way

1011
00:42:34,876 --> 00:42:35,436
Speaker 3: they end up.

1012
00:42:35,556 --> 00:42:37,476
Speaker 1: I've never had more respect for them.

1013
00:42:37,636 --> 00:42:39,676
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I've never had more respect for somebody

1014
00:42:39,756 --> 00:42:43,076
Speaker 4: that says I don't want to do this anymore. It

1015
00:42:43,076 --> 00:42:47,476
Speaker 4: has It's no longer about the music, it's about everything else,

1016
00:42:47,556 --> 00:42:50,196
Speaker 4: and it hasn't hasn't gone to that point for me.

1017
00:42:50,676 --> 00:42:53,996
Speaker 4: I have incredibly respectful fans, like I really do they

1018
00:42:54,036 --> 00:42:56,276
Speaker 4: really respect me in my space and my privacy and

1019
00:42:56,276 --> 00:42:59,636
Speaker 4: my boundaries. But man, like, just if you're somebody that

1020
00:42:59,716 --> 00:43:03,676
Speaker 4: doesn't like the attention and doesn't like the demand of

1021
00:43:03,876 --> 00:43:06,756
Speaker 4: everything besides making music, then I can only imagine why

1022
00:43:06,756 --> 00:43:09,996
Speaker 4: anyone would want to be you know, famous or recognize

1023
00:43:09,996 --> 00:43:13,276
Speaker 4: its fucking invasive as hell, right, and less so for

1024
00:43:13,316 --> 00:43:15,796
Speaker 4: me than it's for being a woman and having the

1025
00:43:15,836 --> 00:43:19,036
Speaker 4: success and having you know, the sexualization and the questions

1026
00:43:19,036 --> 00:43:22,076
Speaker 4: about your dating life, and that's got to be fucking brutal,

1027
00:43:22,116 --> 00:43:24,356
Speaker 4: and just like having to put up with people asking

1028
00:43:24,396 --> 00:43:26,116
Speaker 4: about stuff that's not even about the music, you know,

1029
00:43:26,236 --> 00:43:28,276
Speaker 4: like that's about your personal life and about.

1030
00:43:28,116 --> 00:43:31,396
Speaker 1: Stuff that you don't put on display for people. Fuck

1031
00:43:31,436 --> 00:43:31,796
Speaker 1: that shit.

1032
00:43:32,156 --> 00:43:35,796
Speaker 4: Sure, yeah, if you ever want to find the Boston

1033
00:43:35,836 --> 00:43:37,556
Speaker 4: airport with me and see a bunch of dads and

1034
00:43:37,556 --> 00:43:39,716
Speaker 4: their daughters turned around, like you listen to that guy

1035
00:43:39,796 --> 00:43:41,556
Speaker 4: right then? An you want to see how it feels.

1036
00:43:41,796 --> 00:43:45,716
Speaker 4: It's not bad. It's just like if you're tired or hungover, dude,

1037
00:43:45,836 --> 00:43:49,036
Speaker 4: oh bro, being hungover and like having to like walk

1038
00:43:49,076 --> 00:43:50,916
Speaker 4: into like having to take a shower, you just want

1039
00:43:50,916 --> 00:43:52,436
Speaker 4: to not take a shower some days and like walk

1040
00:43:52,476 --> 00:43:54,516
Speaker 4: outside and you're like you gotta be you gotta be

1041
00:43:54,516 --> 00:43:55,116
Speaker 4: taking a shower.

1042
00:43:55,276 --> 00:43:58,276
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know when you talk about I just

1043
00:43:58,316 --> 00:44:00,516
Speaker 3: want to be stay focused on the music. Like the

1044
00:44:00,516 --> 00:44:02,516
Speaker 3: fame thing can kind of come and go and if

1045
00:44:02,516 --> 00:44:05,756
Speaker 3: it burns out, cool as long as like the music

1046
00:44:05,796 --> 00:44:10,436
Speaker 3: focus is there. How are you so sure that music

1047
00:44:10,516 --> 00:44:13,836
Speaker 3: is the life path? Have you ever thought about, Oh,

1048
00:44:13,876 --> 00:44:16,196
Speaker 3: I might want to be you know, like maybe I

1049
00:44:16,236 --> 00:44:18,116
Speaker 3: want to be an architect, Like has there ever been

1050
00:44:18,156 --> 00:44:20,436
Speaker 3: another vision or has it always just been music?

1051
00:44:21,196 --> 00:44:23,396
Speaker 1: Has never been, never been anything else.

1052
00:44:23,436 --> 00:44:27,596
Speaker 4: I think I've thought like critically and realistically, like yeah,

1053
00:44:27,676 --> 00:44:29,236
Speaker 4: it doesn't happen, Like what would I want to do?

1054
00:44:29,276 --> 00:44:31,516
Speaker 4: And there are things that I could do. I've always

1055
00:44:31,556 --> 00:44:33,596
Speaker 4: said that I wish I could be. Uh, I'd probably

1056
00:44:33,596 --> 00:44:37,036
Speaker 4: do someone like social work or psychology. Yeah, something that

1057
00:44:37,076 --> 00:44:39,676
Speaker 4: like I'm really interested in just like people and their

1058
00:44:39,676 --> 00:44:42,036
Speaker 4: behaviors and what makes them chick and like what makes

1059
00:44:42,076 --> 00:44:45,076
Speaker 4: them what they're about and how their past affects their

1060
00:44:45,116 --> 00:44:47,116
Speaker 4: future or whatever. That's always been really interesting to me.

1061
00:44:47,116 --> 00:44:50,716
Speaker 4: But like fundamentally, no, I've never had any other plan

1062
00:44:50,836 --> 00:44:53,836
Speaker 4: or vision for myself whatsoever. Like music and writing songs

1063
00:44:53,836 --> 00:44:56,156
Speaker 4: has been from the very beginning, the only thing I've

1064
00:44:56,196 --> 00:44:56,956
Speaker 4: ever ever wanted.

1065
00:44:57,196 --> 00:44:58,676
Speaker 3: That's so cool that you know that.

1066
00:44:59,156 --> 00:44:59,716
Speaker 1: Isn't it cool?

1067
00:44:59,836 --> 00:45:02,076
Speaker 4: Yeah? It was cool when I got a record deal,

1068
00:45:02,156 --> 00:45:03,516
Speaker 4: but it was not cool before where I was like,

1069
00:45:03,556 --> 00:45:04,716
Speaker 4: this is all I want and I might not be

1070
00:45:04,756 --> 00:45:05,436
Speaker 4: able to do it.

1071
00:45:05,476 --> 00:45:06,556
Speaker 1: That would suck, you know.

1072
00:45:06,676 --> 00:45:08,996
Speaker 4: I'm just like so aware of like the sadness it

1073
00:45:09,036 --> 00:45:11,716
Speaker 4: is to see somebody that like tried to be a

1074
00:45:11,796 --> 00:45:13,396
Speaker 4: musician and like it didn't work out, and to see

1075
00:45:13,396 --> 00:45:16,116
Speaker 4: them like working a cubicle afterwards and be like, Yeah,

1076
00:45:16,196 --> 00:45:18,516
Speaker 4: that sucks, dude, because I know every single day you're

1077
00:45:18,556 --> 00:45:20,436
Speaker 4: like looking at the picture of you and the Talent

1078
00:45:20,476 --> 00:45:22,636
Speaker 4: Show and wishing that with you now. And I could

1079
00:45:22,676 --> 00:45:24,036
Speaker 4: like see that picture in my head. Even when I

1080
00:45:24,076 --> 00:45:25,596
Speaker 4: was like fifteen, I was like, oh, dude, I'm gonna

1081
00:45:25,596 --> 00:45:27,196
Speaker 4: be the guy in the Cuba gole like no, no, no,

1082
00:45:27,316 --> 00:45:31,236
Speaker 4: and uh. I was very grateful to have had the drive,

1083
00:45:31,596 --> 00:45:34,436
Speaker 4: but also the opportunity and the frank with the privilege

1084
00:45:34,836 --> 00:45:36,356
Speaker 4: of being in a place so allowed me to go

1085
00:45:36,356 --> 00:45:39,196
Speaker 4: to a recording studio and to you know, parents that

1086
00:45:39,236 --> 00:45:40,916
Speaker 4: were like willing to say you don't have to go

1087
00:45:40,956 --> 00:45:43,076
Speaker 4: to college, you know, like you can go make take

1088
00:45:43,116 --> 00:45:45,836
Speaker 4: the record deal. I grew up in a wicked nice

1089
00:45:45,876 --> 00:45:49,916
Speaker 4: area that I think contributed a lot to the opportunity

1090
00:45:50,036 --> 00:45:53,436
Speaker 4: and the ability to take the opportunity combined with like

1091
00:45:53,476 --> 00:45:55,156
Speaker 4: what really was like even as a kid, like a

1092
00:45:55,196 --> 00:45:58,036
Speaker 4: super crazy work ethic for music, Like I wouldn't do

1093
00:45:58,116 --> 00:46:00,436
Speaker 4: my homework, I would get fucking c's and B minuses,

1094
00:46:00,476 --> 00:46:02,556
Speaker 4: but like I would every day be writing a song

1095
00:46:02,676 --> 00:46:03,436
Speaker 4: or working on something.

1096
00:46:03,476 --> 00:46:06,796
Speaker 1: Like it was an every day for years and years

1097
00:46:07,076 --> 00:46:07,996
Speaker 1: grind for me.

1098
00:46:08,316 --> 00:46:10,796
Speaker 3: How did your parents think about you writing songs? Like,

1099
00:46:10,836 --> 00:46:13,756
Speaker 3: were they like, wow, we have like a musically gifted son,

1100
00:46:14,516 --> 00:46:16,556
Speaker 3: or was it just sort of like thought of as

1101
00:46:16,596 --> 00:46:17,116
Speaker 3: a hobby.

1102
00:46:18,556 --> 00:46:22,276
Speaker 4: My mom was an author, and so she was very

1103
00:46:22,596 --> 00:46:25,556
Speaker 4: I think from a certain point. She definitely saw some

1104
00:46:25,676 --> 00:46:28,876
Speaker 4: like potential and talent I think, and helped me hone

1105
00:46:28,916 --> 00:46:29,916
Speaker 4: it and was like.

1106
00:46:30,836 --> 00:46:33,076
Speaker 1: A really amazing resource for me growing up.

1107
00:46:33,316 --> 00:46:35,916
Speaker 4: Just having someone that knows their way around writer's block

1108
00:46:35,996 --> 00:46:40,356
Speaker 4: and writing process and you know, creative struggles, you know

1109
00:46:40,516 --> 00:46:43,156
Speaker 4: they any number of them and knows how to like

1110
00:46:43,236 --> 00:46:46,236
Speaker 4: kind of have been there before because writer's block, that

1111
00:46:46,316 --> 00:46:49,116
Speaker 4: shit's hard, and like to get through that it's really hard,

1112
00:46:49,156 --> 00:46:51,236
Speaker 4: and it happens at every level.

1113
00:46:51,436 --> 00:46:51,676
Speaker 1: You know.

1114
00:46:51,796 --> 00:46:53,436
Speaker 4: Some people say there's no such thing as right a block,

1115
00:46:53,476 --> 00:46:55,556
Speaker 4: and maybe that's true, but I think we can all

1116
00:46:55,596 --> 00:46:57,756
Speaker 4: agree that sometimes you just don't have anything to say

1117
00:46:57,796 --> 00:46:59,476
Speaker 4: and you feel like you can't get the words out.

1118
00:46:59,516 --> 00:47:02,356
Speaker 4: And my mom would just sit me down, give me

1119
00:47:02,396 --> 00:47:04,476
Speaker 4: a blanks of paper and say, right, for thirty minutes,

1120
00:47:04,516 --> 00:47:06,516
Speaker 4: write anything that comes to your head, doesn't matter what

1121
00:47:06,516 --> 00:47:09,556
Speaker 4: it is. Write things down because the musclem he kind

1122
00:47:09,556 --> 00:47:11,316
Speaker 4: of does kick in. After a little while you start

1123
00:47:11,356 --> 00:47:13,476
Speaker 4: to like remember how to work it. I think if

1124
00:47:13,476 --> 00:47:14,956
Speaker 4: you go into that mode of like I'm gonna wait

1125
00:47:15,036 --> 00:47:17,916
Speaker 4: till I'm inspired to make music or to write something,

1126
00:47:17,996 --> 00:47:20,476
Speaker 4: is when you can get into some real trouble because

1127
00:47:20,836 --> 00:47:22,716
Speaker 4: the time since you last broke your thing gets greater

1128
00:47:22,756 --> 00:47:25,596
Speaker 4: and greater, and your your muscle isn't as isn't as

1129
00:47:25,596 --> 00:47:28,396
Speaker 4: worked out, and you're frustrated at yourself for not being

1130
00:47:28,396 --> 00:47:30,156
Speaker 4: as good as you were the last time. And I

1131
00:47:30,156 --> 00:47:32,756
Speaker 4: think if you build slowly each day, trying to put

1132
00:47:32,876 --> 00:47:34,556
Speaker 4: a pended paper, that you can really work your way

1133
00:47:34,596 --> 00:47:35,516
Speaker 4: out of those things.

1134
00:47:35,956 --> 00:47:38,196
Speaker 3: Do you have like a specific set of conditions that

1135
00:47:38,276 --> 00:47:41,916
Speaker 3: you've found lead to writing a good song. Like I

1136
00:47:41,956 --> 00:47:45,756
Speaker 3: interviewed Matt Berninger, the lead singer of The National, and

1137
00:47:45,796 --> 00:47:49,436
Speaker 3: he said his thing is like weed and iced tea

1138
00:47:50,036 --> 00:47:55,516
Speaker 3: in the afternoon, like that combo. That's it's kind of perfect.

1139
00:47:55,996 --> 00:47:58,476
Speaker 1: I think the most consistent thing has been weed.

1140
00:47:59,196 --> 00:48:02,236
Speaker 4: Honestly, like I do really work right well and I'm

1141
00:48:02,236 --> 00:48:04,236
Speaker 4: like smoking weed are getting high. I don't know, it

1142
00:48:04,276 --> 00:48:06,756
Speaker 4: just kind of takes me away from like my inner

1143
00:48:06,796 --> 00:48:08,996
Speaker 4: dialogue for a second, or like at least changes it.

1144
00:48:09,556 --> 00:48:13,036
Speaker 4: Vermont really is like, you know, here goes the sensative

1145
00:48:13,036 --> 00:48:17,676
Speaker 4: Woodsman again. Vermont really is a place that is conducing

1146
00:48:17,796 --> 00:48:21,516
Speaker 4: to like inspiration for me. I feel really like myself there.

1147
00:48:21,836 --> 00:48:26,076
Speaker 4: I feel very comfortable there. I think the biggest common

1148
00:48:26,076 --> 00:48:29,076
Speaker 4: denominator between all the good songs that I've made have

1149
00:48:29,156 --> 00:48:31,996
Speaker 4: come from a fuck it mindset, whether that be like

1150
00:48:32,636 --> 00:48:34,356
Speaker 4: this will never go to any this will never be released,

1151
00:48:34,356 --> 00:48:36,796
Speaker 4: so I might as well write it, or I've been

1152
00:48:36,836 --> 00:48:39,196
Speaker 4: writing all day, I've made absolutely fucking nothing good. I'm

1153
00:48:39,276 --> 00:48:41,716
Speaker 4: angry at myself, I'm upset, and then suddenly like there

1154
00:48:41,716 --> 00:48:44,076
Speaker 4: it is, you know, just that release of just being

1155
00:48:44,116 --> 00:48:47,636
Speaker 4: like I'm just gonna give myself up. To whatever comes

1156
00:48:47,636 --> 00:48:50,076
Speaker 4: out of my mouth or my whatever gets written down next.

1157
00:48:50,236 --> 00:48:53,956
Speaker 4: So I think we need a level of like disinterest

1158
00:48:54,236 --> 00:48:56,276
Speaker 4: and being in Vermont it's helpful.

1159
00:48:56,876 --> 00:48:58,596
Speaker 3: And then how high are you getting? Are you like

1160
00:48:58,636 --> 00:49:02,876
Speaker 3: getting dumb high? Are you like micro dosing high?

1161
00:49:03,596 --> 00:49:06,636
Speaker 4: Well, typically micro dosing, but like sometimes I'll get like

1162
00:49:06,796 --> 00:49:08,996
Speaker 4: dumb high. I always say to my friends like, I

1163
00:49:09,196 --> 00:49:11,876
Speaker 4: wish I could be, you know, like an hour after

1164
00:49:11,916 --> 00:49:12,596
Speaker 4: you smoked weed.

1165
00:49:12,796 --> 00:49:13,876
Speaker 1: That's what I wish I could be.

1166
00:49:13,916 --> 00:49:15,836
Speaker 4: The entire time, like the first like five minutes of

1167
00:49:15,876 --> 00:49:19,156
Speaker 4: being like, oh well lookick, I gotta call my mom,

1168
00:49:19,276 --> 00:49:19,756
Speaker 4: like I shouldn't.

1169
00:49:19,756 --> 00:49:21,356
Speaker 1: I should be in the car right now it's happening.

1170
00:49:22,156 --> 00:49:24,796
Speaker 4: And then and then like the hour later when you'd

1171
00:49:24,836 --> 00:49:27,476
Speaker 4: like gotten over the hill of being too high and

1172
00:49:27,476 --> 00:49:29,196
Speaker 4: you're like, oh, I just feel like relaxed and chill

1173
00:49:29,236 --> 00:49:31,396
Speaker 4: and like funny and good to be around. Yeah, that's

1174
00:49:31,476 --> 00:49:32,796
Speaker 4: kind of where I need to get to. It's never

1175
00:49:32,876 --> 00:49:34,956
Speaker 4: like right away. The stuff i'm right away it is

1176
00:49:34,996 --> 00:49:37,596
Speaker 4: like so bad. I feel like I'm doing like Sergeant

1177
00:49:37,596 --> 00:49:40,716
Speaker 4: Peppers and just like making like weird, like fucking like

1178
00:49:40,756 --> 00:49:41,956
Speaker 4: stuff that sounds.

1179
00:49:41,596 --> 00:49:42,596
Speaker 1: Off tune and bad.

1180
00:49:42,636 --> 00:49:45,076
Speaker 4: And maybe that song Peppers is zo sad amazing, but

1181
00:49:45,116 --> 00:49:48,116
Speaker 4: like the experimental stuff, I'm like, that's not that's getting

1182
00:49:48,156 --> 00:49:50,236
Speaker 4: back to ce An f for jazz, I trended to

1183
00:49:50,236 --> 00:49:51,396
Speaker 4: get Yeah, exactly.

1184
00:49:52,036 --> 00:49:54,316
Speaker 3: You mentioned earlier listening to push a t Like, since

1185
00:49:54,356 --> 00:49:57,316
Speaker 3: people love music recommendations, like, what else do you listen to?

1186
00:49:57,516 --> 00:49:58,436
Speaker 3: Like what you're loving?

1187
00:49:58,676 --> 00:50:00,476
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm loving lots of stuff right now, but let

1188
00:50:00,516 --> 00:50:01,716
Speaker 1: me pull up what I'm listening to.

1189
00:50:01,996 --> 00:50:05,396
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, I'm listening to this Walks of Hochi song

1190
00:50:05,516 --> 00:50:07,036
Speaker 4: Problem with It, which I really like.

1191
00:50:07,516 --> 00:50:09,836
Speaker 1: This guy, Craig Finn made this song out of Chicago.

1192
00:50:10,556 --> 00:50:13,996
Speaker 4: U Sam Fender recommended him to me, and uh, it's

1193
00:50:14,076 --> 00:50:15,036
Speaker 4: really fucking awesome.

1194
00:50:15,876 --> 00:50:19,076
Speaker 1: The new Hosey record I think is incredible. I'm getting

1195
00:50:19,076 --> 00:50:19,916
Speaker 1: into outs ge.

1196
00:50:20,276 --> 00:50:23,156
Speaker 4: On my moody shit that's on Poison Route. I really

1197
00:50:23,236 --> 00:50:26,516
Speaker 4: enjoy He's super cool, so fucking cool. That shit, dude,

1198
00:50:26,556 --> 00:50:26,996
Speaker 4: so cool.

1199
00:50:27,196 --> 00:50:29,036
Speaker 3: I love that. I love that freedom of just being

1200
00:50:29,036 --> 00:50:31,756
Speaker 3: like super loose with the genres, Like yeah, I don't know,

1201
00:50:31,756 --> 00:50:33,676
Speaker 3: I'm getting the vibe that you might that might be

1202
00:50:33,676 --> 00:50:34,796
Speaker 3: in your future at some point.

1203
00:50:35,276 --> 00:50:36,676
Speaker 4: I think that's kind of the thing where like all

1204
00:50:36,716 --> 00:50:38,396
Speaker 4: these cool things have happened this year is I'm like

1205
00:50:38,476 --> 00:50:41,236
Speaker 4: checking off all these amazing boxes so that on my

1206
00:50:41,276 --> 00:50:42,956
Speaker 4: next thing, I'm not like, well, I gotta play the

1207
00:50:42,996 --> 00:50:44,356
Speaker 4: song that gets I gotta write the song that gets

1208
00:50:44,396 --> 00:50:46,836
Speaker 4: do on SNL, I already did SNL thought, Yeah, well

1209
00:50:46,836 --> 00:50:48,716
Speaker 4: I gotta got a Grammy nomination. I'm gonna go make

1210
00:50:48,716 --> 00:50:50,996
Speaker 4: the music that I want. Like whatever, I've had all

1211
00:50:50,996 --> 00:50:53,836
Speaker 4: these I've achieved all these cool things, and uh, now

1212
00:50:53,876 --> 00:50:56,676
Speaker 4: i feel like I'm the freedom to uh do whatever

1213
00:50:56,716 --> 00:50:59,156
Speaker 4: I want because I'm not trying to. I'm pretty much

1214
00:50:59,196 --> 00:51:00,996
Speaker 4: done everything I've ever wanted to do in my career.

1215
00:51:01,036 --> 00:51:02,556
Speaker 1: You know. I feel like that's some people say before

1216
00:51:02,556 --> 00:51:04,356
Speaker 1: they get hit by a car or something. But so

1217
00:51:04,396 --> 00:51:05,396
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna would.

1218
00:51:05,236 --> 00:51:07,236
Speaker 3: But the bad omens again.

1219
00:51:07,516 --> 00:51:10,916
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're gonna really sid into my brain. It just

1220
00:51:10,956 --> 00:51:12,756
Speaker 1: makes very good podcast perfect.

1221
00:51:13,116 --> 00:51:15,316
Speaker 3: Are you already starting to think about what you would

1222
00:51:15,316 --> 00:51:16,396
Speaker 3: say if you win the Grammy?

1223
00:51:16,756 --> 00:51:18,596
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna thank my mama for sure.

1224
00:51:18,876 --> 00:51:23,676
Speaker 4: If I want a Grammy, I would thank my mentor

1225
00:51:23,796 --> 00:51:25,636
Speaker 4: music mentor that I met when I was a younger

1226
00:51:25,716 --> 00:51:27,196
Speaker 4: kid who taught me how to be in a band

1227
00:51:27,236 --> 00:51:28,996
Speaker 4: and put me in a band and taught me everything

1228
00:51:29,076 --> 00:51:29,796
Speaker 4: about recording.

1229
00:51:30,076 --> 00:51:31,796
Speaker 1: That guy changed my life. He showed me, taught me

1230
00:51:31,796 --> 00:51:33,076
Speaker 1: what it was like to be a rock star.

1231
00:51:33,396 --> 00:51:35,476
Speaker 4: I would think tons of people, all the label and

1232
00:51:35,476 --> 00:51:37,196
Speaker 4: the man and every person that's gotten me here. But

1233
00:51:37,236 --> 00:51:38,956
Speaker 4: I think I would do a little shout out for

1234
00:51:38,996 --> 00:51:40,356
Speaker 4: my younger self because when I was a kid, I

1235
00:51:40,356 --> 00:51:43,316
Speaker 4: would practice my Grammy speech to make myself fall asleep

1236
00:51:43,316 --> 00:51:45,436
Speaker 4: when I was a little kid. And when I got

1237
00:51:45,476 --> 00:51:47,876
Speaker 4: my Grammy nomination, I was like, fuck, yeah, my eight

1238
00:51:47,916 --> 00:51:50,076
Speaker 4: year old self from a ten year old self, he's

1239
00:51:50,116 --> 00:51:51,036
Speaker 4: probably pumped right now.

1240
00:51:51,996 --> 00:51:53,636
Speaker 3: Is that huge validation for you?

1241
00:51:54,316 --> 00:51:55,356
Speaker 1: It actually is, yeah.

1242
00:51:55,356 --> 00:51:58,276
Speaker 4: And I I'm not somebody that feels the need for

1243
00:51:58,436 --> 00:52:02,236
Speaker 4: like total validation from like the greater music community or whatever.

1244
00:52:02,276 --> 00:52:05,476
Speaker 4: But for some reason, the Grammy just like man, it

1245
00:52:05,596 --> 00:52:08,636
Speaker 4: just was really was one of the greatest moments of

1246
00:52:08,636 --> 00:52:11,836
Speaker 4: my life. And I felt like nothing can can erase

1247
00:52:11,876 --> 00:52:13,556
Speaker 4: the fact that I got nominated for Grammy, and no

1248
00:52:13,676 --> 00:52:18,116
Speaker 4: level of failure or irrelevancy or whatever happens in my career,

1249
00:52:18,316 --> 00:52:19,916
Speaker 4: Like I always go to look back and say, hey,

1250
00:52:20,436 --> 00:52:22,876
Speaker 4: at one point got nominated for Grammy, And that's one

1251
00:52:22,876 --> 00:52:23,916
Speaker 4: that I can say the rest of my life. And

1252
00:52:23,956 --> 00:52:26,076
Speaker 4: that's that's fun to have those thinks. They're very few

1253
00:52:26,116 --> 00:52:28,556
Speaker 4: and far between at a musician's career.

1254
00:52:28,796 --> 00:52:32,156
Speaker 3: Hell yeah, congratulations on all the success, but also like

1255
00:52:32,476 --> 00:52:33,996
Speaker 3: I can't wait to hear what you put out.

1256
00:52:34,316 --> 00:52:35,236
Speaker 1: Hell yeah.

1257
00:52:35,276 --> 00:52:37,076
Speaker 4: Well, thank you and thank you for all the thoughtful

1258
00:52:37,156 --> 00:52:39,916
Speaker 4: questions and for you know, give me things to think

1259
00:52:39,916 --> 00:52:41,876
Speaker 4: about on my own. Honestly, it was fun to talk

1260
00:52:41,876 --> 00:52:44,076
Speaker 4: to you and h just think that you're great, So

1261
00:52:44,116 --> 00:52:44,676
Speaker 4: thanks so much.

1262
00:52:47,556 --> 00:52:50,516
Speaker 2: Thanks to no Ocon for taking us through his incredible year.

1263
00:52:51,196 --> 00:52:53,396
Speaker 2: You can hear the deluxe version of his latest album,

1264
00:52:53,436 --> 00:52:55,716
Speaker 2: Stick Season, along with some of his other music, on

1265
00:52:55,716 --> 00:52:57,036
Speaker 2: a playlist at broken.

1266
00:52:56,836 --> 00:52:58,556
Speaker 1: Record podcast dot com.

1267
00:52:58,996 --> 00:53:01,956
Speaker 2: Subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash

1268
00:53:01,956 --> 00:53:04,396
Speaker 2: broken record Podcast, where you can find all of our

1269
00:53:04,436 --> 00:53:08,476
Speaker 2: new episodes. You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record.

1270
00:53:09,116 --> 00:53:11,916
Speaker 2: Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with

1271
00:53:12,036 --> 00:53:15,476
Speaker 2: marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer

1272
00:53:15,676 --> 00:53:20,036
Speaker 2: is Ben Tolladay. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries.

1273
00:53:20,436 --> 00:53:23,236
Speaker 2: If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider

1274
00:53:23,276 --> 00:53:27,636
Speaker 2: subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription

1275
00:53:27,716 --> 00:53:30,476
Speaker 2: that offers bonus content and ad free listening for four

1276
00:53:30,636 --> 00:53:33,876
Speaker 2: ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple

1277
00:53:33,956 --> 00:53:37,916
Speaker 2: podcast subscriptions, and if you like this show, please remember

1278
00:53:37,956 --> 00:53:40,516
Speaker 2: to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app.

1279
00:53:40,796 --> 00:53:43,596
Speaker 2: Our theme music's bay Anny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.