WEBVTT - Best Of: Wired for Change 0:00:14.956 --> 0:00:24.036 Pushkin hay Slight changed listeners. It's Maya this summer. We're 0:00:24.076 --> 0:00:27.756 revisiting four of your all time favorite episodes. For our 0:00:27.756 --> 0:00:31.156 final episode in the series, we're hearing from John Elder Robison. 0:00:31.996 --> 0:00:36.276 This conversation changed my life. I developed a new perspective 0:00:36.356 --> 0:00:39.556 on how our mind's work, the emotions we feel, and 0:00:39.636 --> 0:00:40.876 all that comes along with that. 0:00:52.316 --> 0:00:57.076 I was never a socially skilled kid. I never knew 0:00:57.076 --> 0:01:00.316 what to say. Someone would come up to me, then 0:01:00.356 --> 0:01:03.556 they would say, look at my new doll and I 0:01:03.556 --> 0:01:07.356 would say, I like elephants, and they would just like, 0:01:07.396 --> 0:01:10.716 look at me. And I never understood what I did wrong. 0:01:10.836 --> 0:01:13.316 I was always saying and doing the wrong thing. 0:01:14.476 --> 0:01:17.956 That's John Elder Robison. He's always had a gift for 0:01:18.076 --> 0:01:22.276 understanding machines versus a sound engineer, then as a car mechanic, 0:01:23.076 --> 0:01:25.476 But the one thing he always felt was lacking was 0:01:25.516 --> 0:01:29.036 his ability to connect with people emotionally. He says he 0:01:29.116 --> 0:01:33.116 often felt depressed and anxious about his interactions, and over 0:01:33.156 --> 0:01:35.356 the years he'd done a number of things to try 0:01:35.356 --> 0:01:39.236 and foster a deeper connection with others. Then in two 0:01:39.236 --> 0:01:43.276 thousand and eight, John came across a unique opportunity he 0:01:43.396 --> 0:01:46.316 was given the chance to participate in an experimental brain 0:01:46.356 --> 0:01:50.276 study that he hoped would quote increase his emotional sensitivity. 0:01:51.596 --> 0:01:58.036 I so much wanted to do that, because when I 0:01:58.116 --> 0:02:03.876 had learned that there were these facial expressions, and there 0:02:03.916 --> 0:02:09.396 were these whole, like unspoken conversations that happened between so 0:02:09.516 --> 0:02:13.956 called normal people, and I couldn't get them. It was 0:02:14.116 --> 0:02:16.796 like there were two whole conversations going on, and I 0:02:16.796 --> 0:02:18.476 could only hear one of them. And I thought, if 0:02:18.556 --> 0:02:21.076 only I could hear the other one, only I could 0:02:21.156 --> 0:02:24.836 understand it, I would be happy. And that was this 0:02:25.236 --> 0:02:28.076 like fantasy I built up in my mind that if 0:02:28.116 --> 0:02:30.556 I could see these things in other people, my life 0:02:30.596 --> 0:02:31.556 would be beautiful. 0:02:34.236 --> 0:02:37.356 On today's episode, when you discover that the thing you 0:02:37.476 --> 0:02:41.036 most wanted to change about yourself didn't actually need changing. 0:02:43.756 --> 0:02:46.596 I'm maya Shunker and this is a slight change of plans, 0:02:47.116 --> 0:02:49.476 a show about who we are and who we become 0:02:49.836 --> 0:03:03.676 in the face of a big change. The core of 0:03:03.756 --> 0:03:06.596 John's story takes place in the nineteen eighties and nineties, 0:03:06.716 --> 0:03:09.956 when he was working as a car mechanic in Springfield, Massachusetts, 0:03:10.556 --> 0:03:13.436 but as you'll hear, John's had many careers over the years, 0:03:13.756 --> 0:03:16.116 and we started at our conversation by talking about his 0:03:16.156 --> 0:03:18.836 time in the music business. He is a rare ear 0:03:18.916 --> 0:03:22.076 for technical detail, and in the nineteen seventies he worked 0:03:22.076 --> 0:03:24.396 as a sound engineer for the likes of Kiss and 0:03:24.436 --> 0:03:25.236 Diana Ross. 0:03:26.196 --> 0:03:32.076 I think that people felt that I could see into 0:03:32.076 --> 0:03:35.556 the amplifiers, and I could see into the electronics systems, 0:03:35.876 --> 0:03:40.676 and I felt like I could see it. You know, 0:03:40.996 --> 0:03:46.076 I could stand out at the mixing desk at a concert, 0:03:46.756 --> 0:03:51.356 which was, you know, running my equipment, and you know, 0:03:51.396 --> 0:03:54.556 I could push It's like pushing the throttles on a 0:03:54.596 --> 0:03:56.956 powerful boat. You know, I could push it up, and 0:03:57.036 --> 0:04:00.996 I could feel that this is just how far you 0:04:01.076 --> 0:04:03.796 can push it before you blow it up. And I 0:04:03.836 --> 0:04:07.596 think that that was a gift that was relatively uncommon, 0:04:08.236 --> 0:04:10.196 and that was the thing I loved about it. I 0:04:11.196 --> 0:04:14.396 loved making the equipment sing for all those people. 0:04:15.436 --> 0:04:17.676 Oh, I love that. It's a very beautiful portrayal of 0:04:17.716 --> 0:04:21.076 what it means to work and sound. You ended up 0:04:21.076 --> 0:04:23.876 becoming interested in cars, right, which is what you do 0:04:23.996 --> 0:04:27.316 right now? Why is it that you decided to eventually 0:04:27.436 --> 0:04:29.596 leave your musical career behind. 0:04:29.996 --> 0:04:33.996 When it got to dealing with people because music was 0:04:34.036 --> 0:04:40.436 my first job. The musicians appreciated what I could create, 0:04:41.436 --> 0:04:47.396 but other people thought that I was strange or bizarre, 0:04:47.596 --> 0:04:50.836 or you know whatever. And I thought, well, what could 0:04:50.876 --> 0:04:55.436 I do? And I always had had this love of 0:04:56.956 --> 0:04:59.516 machinery and cars, and I thought, you know, I'm just 0:04:59.596 --> 0:05:03.596 gonna be a mechanic. And I turned out to have 0:05:03.636 --> 0:05:07.196 a gift for understand and automotive machines just the way 0:05:07.236 --> 0:05:11.396 I had understood musical machines and other kinds of electronics. 0:05:11.996 --> 0:05:14.036 I left, and I kind of never looked back. 0:05:16.116 --> 0:05:18.636 I'm wondering, John, can you bring me back to the 0:05:18.716 --> 0:05:21.436 day in your car shop when your client surprised you 0:05:21.516 --> 0:05:22.076 with a book. 0:05:23.436 --> 0:05:28.076 I had always been kind of a social failure, but 0:05:28.916 --> 0:05:34.476 at my car business I had to learn enough social skills. 0:05:34.516 --> 0:05:36.836 I guess that people would come back a second time. 0:05:37.516 --> 0:05:39.636 And I spent a fair amount of time talking to 0:05:39.716 --> 0:05:42.836 the customers that would sit in the waiting room and 0:05:42.876 --> 0:05:45.356 wait for their cars, and I got to know them. 0:05:45.476 --> 0:05:47.596 Some of them came in over a period of years. 0:05:47.636 --> 0:05:52.836 One fellow was a therapist and comes in one day 0:05:52.876 --> 0:05:54.676 and he says, you know, John, I've heard you tell 0:05:54.716 --> 0:05:58.436 me how alone you feel many times, and I've heard 0:05:58.476 --> 0:06:01.316 you tell me like you feel like you're standing in 0:06:01.356 --> 0:06:03.756 the rain outside looking in the windows at all the 0:06:03.796 --> 0:06:05.916 people standing by a fire, and you don't know how 0:06:05.956 --> 0:06:08.716 to get in and be with them. And he said, 0:06:10.116 --> 0:06:12.436 you know, there's a thing that we're talking about in 0:06:12.476 --> 0:06:16.836 the mental health community that kind of explains that. It's 0:06:16.876 --> 0:06:20.996 called Asperger syndrome. It's a kind of autism. And I 0:06:21.116 --> 0:06:24.756 just looked at him and I thought autism. Then he 0:06:24.836 --> 0:06:29.276 pulls out this book. It was called Asperger Syndrome. It 0:06:29.356 --> 0:06:32.876 was by a doctor Tony Atwood, and he says, look, 0:06:32.956 --> 0:06:38.116 he says, it's people like you and can't read facial expressions, 0:06:38.196 --> 0:06:43.396 can't tell when somebody's angry or somebody said, say inappropriate 0:06:43.476 --> 0:06:46.916 things and get people upset, to have difficulty looking other 0:06:46.996 --> 0:06:50.116 people in the eye, and other folks think that they're 0:06:50.156 --> 0:06:53.556 being tricky or evasive, and like everything he's saying to 0:06:53.596 --> 0:06:59.036 me is me. And I'm listening to that. And first 0:06:59.076 --> 0:07:01.276 I was like stunned at him telling me that I 0:07:01.316 --> 0:07:06.036 had this kind of autism. And then as he kept 0:07:06.076 --> 0:07:08.356 saying this is it, this and this and this and 0:07:08.396 --> 0:07:10.636 every one of those things with me, and it was 0:07:10.796 --> 0:07:15.476 just it was just shocking. It's just like totally came 0:07:15.516 --> 0:07:18.036 out of the blue. It's not like I was sitting 0:07:18.076 --> 0:07:20.876 in a therapist's office saying, doctor, tell me what's wrong 0:07:20.916 --> 0:07:24.196 with me. It's like I was sitting behind the desk 0:07:24.276 --> 0:07:28.556 at my car repair place and this is just thrust 0:07:28.596 --> 0:07:30.836 in front of me, and it was shocking. 0:07:31.956 --> 0:07:37.276 You're having this life changing moment, and I'm wondering, what 0:07:37.316 --> 0:07:39.596 did it feel like to have this kind of clarity 0:07:39.636 --> 0:07:40.516 for the first time. 0:07:41.436 --> 0:07:48.156 Well, my first thought was, Okay, if I have this 0:07:48.356 --> 0:07:53.876 Asperger thing, how do I get cured? And he said, well, 0:07:54.396 --> 0:07:58.796 it's not a disease. It's just how you are. People 0:07:58.876 --> 0:08:02.516 with autism that's how they are, and people with Aspergers 0:08:02.596 --> 0:08:06.196 that's how you are. He says, It's like being short 0:08:06.316 --> 0:08:09.836 or tall or you know whatever. It's just it's how 0:08:09.876 --> 0:08:17.916 you are. But then after it sinks in there's no cure. Well, 0:08:18.036 --> 0:08:20.116 now I know I have all this trouble and it's 0:08:20.156 --> 0:08:24.476 never going to end. And I was really sad, but 0:08:25.076 --> 0:08:28.996 I couldn't help reading the book he had left me. 0:08:29.316 --> 0:08:33.276 And at first I had thought, Wow, people told me 0:08:33.316 --> 0:08:37.196 I was mental and stupid and sociopathic and stuff. All 0:08:37.236 --> 0:08:42.036 my life I heard these kinds of things, and now 0:08:42.716 --> 0:08:45.316 here he is telling me, I'm not any of those things. 0:08:45.356 --> 0:08:50.996 I'm a person with this Asperger's and that explains why 0:08:51.036 --> 0:08:54.556 I've had all this trouble in my life. But gradually 0:08:54.596 --> 0:08:59.516 I realized I can take the knowledge from that book 0:09:00.116 --> 0:09:03.316 and I can teach myself to act differently. I can 0:09:03.396 --> 0:09:06.076 teach myself that even if it makes me uncomfortable to 0:09:06.116 --> 0:09:09.356 look in your eyes when you're talking to me, look 0:09:09.356 --> 0:09:12.076 at your cheeks, I can look at your mouth. And 0:09:12.236 --> 0:09:16.316 when I did that, it was kind of amazing, because 0:09:16.996 --> 0:09:22.156 people responded better to me, even though I couldn't tell 0:09:22.396 --> 0:09:28.796 about people's body language and expressions. After reading Atwood's book, 0:09:29.476 --> 0:09:31.996 I understood that I would get too close to people 0:09:32.076 --> 0:09:34.436 and I would make them feel threatened. So I could 0:09:34.476 --> 0:09:36.676 just make a rule. If I held my arm out 0:09:36.716 --> 0:09:39.036 in front of me, I could say, I won't get 0:09:39.076 --> 0:09:42.476 any closer to you than two arms lengths when we're 0:09:42.516 --> 0:09:46.716 talking in the waiting room. And I began to see 0:09:46.836 --> 0:09:50.196 that I could change how I behaved, and it really 0:09:50.276 --> 0:09:53.676 changed my life for the better. And that's when I 0:09:53.716 --> 0:09:56.876 started to go from feeling, oh boy, you know, I 0:09:56.956 --> 0:10:00.036 understand why I had all this trouble, but it's hopeless 0:10:00.516 --> 0:10:05.116 to thinking, you know, I can change my life completely 0:10:05.396 --> 0:10:09.756 with this knowledge. And that was a real, a really 0:10:09.796 --> 0:10:10.636 big deal for me. 0:10:11.316 --> 0:10:14.716 Did it lead you to reinterpret your past you'd had 0:10:14.756 --> 0:10:19.396 experiences with depression? Did it help you understand aspects of 0:10:19.396 --> 0:10:20.156 that differently? 0:10:20.236 --> 0:10:28.516 Now? The thing I had always wanted was to feel 0:10:29.996 --> 0:10:38.276 like I was a normal person. And so when I 0:10:38.356 --> 0:10:45.916 learned about autism, I had an explanation for why things 0:10:45.916 --> 0:10:48.196 had gone wrong with me and for why I was 0:10:48.236 --> 0:10:53.676 a second rate person. And I have to say that 0:10:55.556 --> 0:11:00.876 today we have this, you know, really different autism awareness, 0:11:01.636 --> 0:11:04.476 and to say that I was a second rate person, 0:11:04.516 --> 0:11:07.116 that's like a bad thing to say now, but you know, 0:11:07.156 --> 0:11:09.396 that's how I felt. I felt like I was second right, 0:11:10.316 --> 0:11:16.636 and I wanted so much to be normal, and so 0:11:16.996 --> 0:11:22.836 I thought, you know, I should write my own story 0:11:23.236 --> 0:11:29.796 about growing up and learning about this Asperger autism thing. 0:11:31.516 --> 0:11:35.436 And that was what gave me the courage to write 0:11:35.436 --> 0:11:38.516 what became Look Me in the Eye. And the book 0:11:38.556 --> 0:11:43.756 came out and all these people started reading it. And 0:11:43.796 --> 0:11:46.316 you know, one of the people who read it was 0:11:46.356 --> 0:11:51.796 this postdoctoral researcher at Harvard Medical School, and she showed 0:11:51.876 --> 0:11:54.356 up at a talk I was doing in a bookstore, 0:11:55.116 --> 0:12:00.916 and she said, we're doing a study that's aimed at 0:12:01.356 --> 0:12:08.836 possibly helping autistic people see emotional cues and read expressions 0:12:09.876 --> 0:12:15.196 in other people, and we're hoping that your talks are 0:12:15.236 --> 0:12:19.596 attracting autistic people in the audience, and maybe you could 0:12:19.596 --> 0:12:21.996 hand out flyers for our study and you could attract 0:12:22.116 --> 0:12:25.436 some volunteers for us. And I was like, thinking, now 0:12:25.756 --> 0:12:28.516 I'll tell people, but I want to do it. I 0:12:28.676 --> 0:12:34.356 just I so much wanted to do that because when 0:12:34.396 --> 0:12:41.676 I had learned in that Atwood book that there were 0:12:41.716 --> 0:12:46.356 these facial expressions and there were these whole, like unspoken 0:12:47.196 --> 0:12:52.236 conversations that he described that happened between so called normal people, 0:12:53.036 --> 0:12:55.636 and I couldn't get them. It was like there were 0:12:55.716 --> 0:12:58.116 two whole conversations going on, and I could only hear 0:12:58.156 --> 0:12:59.996 one of them. And I thought, if only I could 0:12:59.996 --> 0:13:03.516 hear the other one, only I could understand it. I thought, 0:13:03.556 --> 0:13:07.236 the reason I've always been anxious and depressed is because 0:13:07.316 --> 0:13:10.436 all I can ever understand is bad things. People don't 0:13:10.516 --> 0:13:13.076 like me, people think I'm whatever. They're going to fire me, 0:13:13.116 --> 0:13:15.996 they're going to throw me out. But maybe there's this 0:13:16.076 --> 0:13:19.316 whole other set of messages where people really love me 0:13:19.356 --> 0:13:22.036 and they like me and they want it. There's good messages. 0:13:22.436 --> 0:13:24.236 Maybe all I can get are the bad ones. And 0:13:24.276 --> 0:13:27.116 if I could fix that and I would be happy. 0:13:28.076 --> 0:13:30.676 And that was this like fantasy I built up in 0:13:30.716 --> 0:13:33.876 my mind. And so when she came along and she 0:13:33.916 --> 0:13:36.916 said we're doing the study hoping to do that, I thought, well, 0:13:36.956 --> 0:13:40.076 maybe it would work, Maybe that would happen for me. 0:13:41.676 --> 0:13:45.716 Yeah, you know you've written that autism gave you, quote 0:13:45.916 --> 0:13:49.756 a mixture of disabilities and gifts. Can you share more 0:13:49.796 --> 0:13:52.956 about this and how it affected your decision to enroll 0:13:52.956 --> 0:13:53.636 in this study. 0:13:54.396 --> 0:13:57.596 So the way the way autism had kind of played 0:13:57.636 --> 0:14:01.596 out for me by that time in my life. The 0:14:01.676 --> 0:14:05.516 average person couldn't see into machinery the way I could, 0:14:06.156 --> 0:14:12.356 and the average person couldn't they couldn't focus on details 0:14:13.356 --> 0:14:17.196 of things the way I could. I still, even without 0:14:17.276 --> 0:14:21.116 understanding that I had gifts, I thought that my gifts 0:14:21.836 --> 0:14:25.716 were in the category of something in a freak show. 0:14:26.196 --> 0:14:28.996 You know, Sure they were gifts, but they weren't gifts 0:14:28.996 --> 0:14:32.716 that most people cared about, and the things most people 0:14:32.716 --> 0:14:38.076 do care about I couldn't do. So I I felt 0:14:38.156 --> 0:14:43.996 that the more I could understand emotional cues, the more 0:14:44.156 --> 0:14:47.316 I might be able to be like other people. And 0:14:47.356 --> 0:14:49.076 I wanted to be able to do that. 0:14:49.836 --> 0:14:53.156 Yeah, you know, it reveals so much to me about 0:14:53.996 --> 0:14:57.236 where you were at psychologically with respect your self image 0:14:57.276 --> 0:15:00.196 and self perception, that you would want to jump at 0:15:00.196 --> 0:15:03.356 this opportunity, right, And you know, just to let listeners 0:15:03.396 --> 0:15:05.476 in on the specifics of this study that you were 0:15:05.516 --> 0:15:08.556 signing up for. It was not without risk, right. It 0:15:08.676 --> 0:15:14.396 used TMS transcranial magnetic stimulation to activate specific areas of 0:15:14.436 --> 0:15:18.676 your brain using high power magnetic fields. I mean it's 0:15:18.676 --> 0:15:21.756 hard to imagine not having a little bit of trepidation, right, 0:15:21.916 --> 0:15:26.476 some fear associated with getting enrolled in this kind of study, 0:15:27.116 --> 0:15:27.596 is that, right? 0:15:28.076 --> 0:15:31.476 You know you might have thought of it that way 0:15:33.156 --> 0:15:38.836 as a person who was educated in neuroscience. I didn't 0:15:38.876 --> 0:15:45.756 see it that way. The idea of TMS was, or 0:15:45.956 --> 0:15:49.556 is that they take a coil of wire, which is 0:15:49.596 --> 0:15:55.556 the basis for an electromagnet, and they fire a bunch 0:15:55.596 --> 0:15:59.076 of electricity into it and it induces a powerful magnetic 0:15:59.116 --> 0:16:01.516 field in that wire. They would put that on your head, 0:16:02.196 --> 0:16:06.076 and so they would fire a pulse of magnetic energy 0:16:06.156 --> 0:16:09.596 into your head when they put electricity into the wire. Well, 0:16:11.076 --> 0:16:15.916 I had worked with really really powerful coils of wire 0:16:16.156 --> 0:16:20.756 and magnets in making sound systems. And it's funny because 0:16:20.796 --> 0:16:23.636 so many people in retrospect they said, weren't you scared 0:16:23.676 --> 0:16:26.476 of that? And no, because of my background and making 0:16:26.796 --> 0:16:29.756 high power electronic systems, I was scared at all. I thought, 0:16:29.796 --> 0:16:30.236 bring it on. 0:16:31.436 --> 0:16:34.676 Wow, that's so interesting. I want to push you a 0:16:34.676 --> 0:16:36.956 little more here though, right, because it's one thing to 0:16:36.956 --> 0:16:42.636 be building electronic equipment, it's another thing to have specific 0:16:42.676 --> 0:16:46.396 parts of your brain activated by technology. 0:16:47.716 --> 0:16:51.676 I just I really thought there was I thought there 0:16:51.756 --> 0:16:54.276 was just like so much more that I was missing, 0:16:54.876 --> 0:16:57.276 and if I could possibly see it, it would be 0:16:59.076 --> 0:17:03.076 it would be huge revelation for me. It would be 0:17:03.236 --> 0:17:04.836 such a huge positive thing. 0:17:05.956 --> 0:17:10.716 Was your family as enthusiastic about this as you were? 0:17:10.836 --> 0:17:13.876 Oh? My family wanted enthusiastic at all. And my wife, 0:17:14.036 --> 0:17:16.996 she said, you know, when it comes to getting involved 0:17:17.036 --> 0:17:19.796 in experiments to change myself, she said, you're good just 0:17:19.836 --> 0:17:21.836 the way you are. Why do you want to change yourself? 0:17:23.196 --> 0:17:26.356 And I said, I want to feel like other people. 0:17:26.436 --> 0:17:29.116 I want to have people want to be my friend 0:17:29.156 --> 0:17:31.316 and stuff and she said, people do want to be 0:17:31.396 --> 0:17:36.196 your friend, people like you you have friends, And I said, well, 0:17:36.396 --> 0:17:40.676 I just feel like there's something more, you know, So. 0:17:40.636 --> 0:17:45.876 You decide to enroll in the TMS studies, and I'm 0:17:45.876 --> 0:17:48.996 wondering if you can set the scene for me, you know, 0:17:49.156 --> 0:17:50.156 to do the study. 0:17:51.116 --> 0:17:53.516 They said to me, well, we're going to stimulate these 0:17:53.516 --> 0:17:56.876 different areas of your brain, and the way we're going 0:17:56.916 --> 0:18:00.356 to tell if anything happens is we're going to show 0:18:00.396 --> 0:18:05.396 you on a computer monitor, people making faces, people doing things, 0:18:06.676 --> 0:18:10.556 and we're going to ask is it ellis is it anxious? 0:18:10.676 --> 0:18:13.676 Is it eager? You know, they'll have these different emotions 0:18:14.196 --> 0:18:18.316 and you'll push buttons for what you're seeing. And they said, 0:18:18.316 --> 0:18:22.316 we don't care if you don't get it right. Then 0:18:22.356 --> 0:18:24.636 we're going to do this stimulation on you and we're 0:18:24.636 --> 0:18:26.436 going to put you right back in front of the machine, 0:18:26.436 --> 0:18:29.036 will show you another set of faces, and we'll see 0:18:29.036 --> 0:18:32.716 if your responses are more or less accurate or the same. 0:18:32.836 --> 0:18:35.836 That's how we'll tell. So they put the images in 0:18:35.836 --> 0:18:39.236 front of me before the stimulation, and I didn't I 0:18:39.276 --> 0:18:42.476 didn't have a single idea what I was seeing. So 0:18:42.596 --> 0:18:47.516 then they sit me down and they start firing these pulses. 0:18:47.556 --> 0:18:51.996 It's one pulse a second, and the thing goes click, click, click, 0:18:52.676 --> 0:18:55.396 and every time it would fire, it would make a pop, 0:18:55.676 --> 0:18:58.036 and I would feel this like twitch on the top 0:18:58.076 --> 0:19:01.916 of my scalp, which they told me was the energy 0:19:02.036 --> 0:19:07.036 from the magnetic field triggering muscles in my scalp. And 0:19:07.076 --> 0:19:09.076 so I was sitting there and all of a sudden, 0:19:09.236 --> 0:19:11.116 she lifts the thing off away from my head and 0:19:11.116 --> 0:19:12.756 she said, come on quick, we got to test you. 0:19:12.796 --> 0:19:15.916 And I realized half an hour had passed. Wow, And 0:19:16.756 --> 0:19:18.516 so I go over. You know, it's just like ten 0:19:18.556 --> 0:19:20.156 feet and I move across the room and I sit 0:19:20.236 --> 0:19:25.036 down and the faces fly in front of me, and 0:19:25.076 --> 0:19:28.516 I push the buttons and I still don't have any idea, 0:19:28.596 --> 0:19:32.676 And I thought, well, kind of fool was I? You know, 0:19:32.796 --> 0:19:36.636 I imagined that I'm going to look at those faces again 0:19:36.636 --> 0:19:38.396 and I'm going to know every single one of them. 0:19:38.396 --> 0:19:42.876 Well I didn't. I didn't know anything. So she says, okay, 0:19:43.036 --> 0:19:45.916 that's good, And I said, well, how did I do? 0:19:46.276 --> 0:19:48.196 And she says, well, I don't know how you did, 0:19:48.196 --> 0:19:49.876 but even if I did, I couldn't tell you because 0:19:49.876 --> 0:19:54.436 it's a study. So that I go out down the 0:19:54.476 --> 0:19:56.116 garage and I get in my car, so I'm like 0:19:56.156 --> 0:20:00.236 two hours from home. And so when I drive out, 0:20:02.036 --> 0:20:06.396 I always would play old music, and I had a 0:20:06.436 --> 0:20:11.836 lot of concerts or bootleg recordings I could listen to. 0:20:12.076 --> 0:20:16.636 And I put on recording this show of a band 0:20:16.716 --> 0:20:21.956 called Tavares, And so I put on this show and 0:20:21.996 --> 0:20:26.836 I start playing, and it was like I stepped into 0:20:26.876 --> 0:20:30.316 a musical hallucination. It's like I was back there at 0:20:30.356 --> 0:20:34.036 the show and I could I could like almost smell it, 0:20:34.076 --> 0:20:36.916 and I could feel it, and it was it was 0:20:37.116 --> 0:20:41.196 just an overpowering thing listening to it, and it drove 0:20:41.276 --> 0:20:45.236 along and it was it was so overwhelming that it 0:20:46.116 --> 0:20:48.476 made me cry. I had pulled over and I was 0:20:48.516 --> 0:20:52.516 just crying. And all the years I had worked in music, 0:20:53.276 --> 0:20:56.796 I didn't feel the emotion of the music. I felt. 0:20:57.156 --> 0:21:01.116 Was it technically correct, but I didn't feel was it happy? 0:21:01.236 --> 0:21:03.796 Was it sad? Was it longing? Was it wistful? I 0:21:03.796 --> 0:21:06.836 didn't feel those things, And of course that's what made 0:21:06.876 --> 0:21:12.036 me a good engineer. But now I was feeling the 0:21:12.116 --> 0:21:17.436 emotion of it, and it was just overwhelming. And I 0:21:17.476 --> 0:21:24.676 thought to myself, this must be what all those people 0:21:24.836 --> 0:21:29.676 in the audience were feeling when they listened to those shows. 0:21:30.836 --> 0:21:34.516 I thought back at all those concerts I had been at, 0:21:34.556 --> 0:21:38.476 and people were crying and they were singing, and they 0:21:38.516 --> 0:21:41.316 were smiling, and I would see like tears, you know, 0:21:41.396 --> 0:21:45.596 from people, and I'd just be I'd just be standing 0:21:45.636 --> 0:21:52.356 there looking out, thinking, it's working. The system, it's doing 0:21:52.396 --> 0:21:55.596 what we wanted it to do. The musicians are up 0:21:55.636 --> 0:21:59.956 there playing and our sound equipment is working. But I 0:22:00.036 --> 0:22:04.916 never felt the feelings of the audience. And I went 0:22:04.956 --> 0:22:08.436 home and it was really late by then, and I 0:22:08.476 --> 0:22:10.596 sent an email to the doctor and I said, this 0:22:10.676 --> 0:22:14.996 is like some really powerful stuff. This has happened. And 0:22:15.076 --> 0:22:19.756 I sat awake all night and I just listened to 0:22:19.796 --> 0:22:23.116 old music, just sitting listening to it, and it was 0:22:23.196 --> 0:22:29.716 like dawn, and it finally the brilliance kind of faded away, 0:22:30.276 --> 0:22:35.476 and I went to sleep and it was just it 0:22:35.516 --> 0:22:36.796 was just an amazing night. 0:22:47.916 --> 0:22:50.116 We'll be back in a moment. With a slight change 0:22:50.116 --> 0:22:58.156 of plans. So John Elder Robison volunteered to participate in 0:22:58.196 --> 0:23:01.116 a pioneering study run by a teaching hospital out of 0:23:01.116 --> 0:23:06.716 Harvard Medical School. The study used transcranial magnetic stimulation or TMS, 0:23:07.356 --> 0:23:12.356 which uses electromagnetic pul to stimulate nerve cells. The impact 0:23:12.356 --> 0:23:16.236 of TMS on things like migrains, obsessive compulsive disorder, and 0:23:16.356 --> 0:23:20.796 major depressive disorder are relatively well understood, but less so 0:23:20.956 --> 0:23:23.996 the impact of TMS on people on the autism spectrum. 0:23:24.516 --> 0:23:26.996 And the two thousand and eight study that John participated 0:23:27.036 --> 0:23:31.116 in was entirely exploratory. It was a research study that 0:23:31.156 --> 0:23:34.836 recruited those with Asperger's, a diagnostic category still used at 0:23:34.836 --> 0:23:38.316 that time, and it's worth noting that among the participants 0:23:38.316 --> 0:23:42.356 in the study, John's response was singular and highly unusual 0:23:42.436 --> 0:23:45.516 in its expression, and it had a complex impact on 0:23:45.596 --> 0:23:48.916 John's life. It changed his understanding of himself in a 0:23:48.956 --> 0:23:53.156 profound way and affected the relationships in his life, including 0:23:53.196 --> 0:23:55.236 with his wife and the folks in the car shop. 0:23:55.876 --> 0:23:57.996 I went to work and one of the guys was 0:23:58.436 --> 0:24:03.236 in the hall and I looked at him and I thought, 0:24:04.116 --> 0:24:12.036 he has most beautiful brown eyes. And then it like 0:24:12.116 --> 0:24:15.876 hit me. I thought, what's going on with me? I 0:24:15.916 --> 0:24:21.156 had never ever in my life had a thought he 0:24:21.236 --> 0:24:25.556 has beautiful brown eyes. But of course I had heard 0:24:25.636 --> 0:24:28.916 that people had said, oh, old blue eyes, and such 0:24:28.996 --> 0:24:31.556 pretty blue eyes. And pretty. You know, i'd heard it, 0:24:32.236 --> 0:24:36.596 but I had never ever had that thought. And then 0:24:37.356 --> 0:24:39.396 I went into the waiting room and there were people 0:24:39.476 --> 0:24:42.556 out there, and I looked at people and I thought, 0:24:43.676 --> 0:24:48.276 she's really anxious, really scared. And I never had a 0:24:48.276 --> 0:24:50.716 feeling like that before. I mean, I would go in 0:24:50.716 --> 0:24:54.116 the waiting room and my logical brain would tell me 0:24:54.516 --> 0:24:57.076 they're waiting to know what's wrong with their car, But 0:24:57.356 --> 0:25:00.716 never ever did I look at someone and think she's 0:25:00.796 --> 0:25:06.156 really scared. And I actually I said to the person 0:25:06.196 --> 0:25:08.956 in the waiting room, I said, don't worry, it'll be okay. 0:25:09.676 --> 0:25:13.476 She kind of smiled at me. Wow, And I thought, 0:25:14.076 --> 0:25:16.516 this is like magic. This has never happened to me. 0:25:18.196 --> 0:25:23.516 And lest you think that my life was all like 0:25:23.636 --> 0:25:26.396 beauty and sweetness and light from that moment on, it 0:25:26.436 --> 0:25:32.836 wasn't that way. Because I went out and I went 0:25:32.876 --> 0:25:35.316 you know, I was a big shopping center where I live, 0:25:36.796 --> 0:25:38.716 and I'm walking through the mall and I'm just like 0:25:38.796 --> 0:25:42.596 looking around at the people, and it was not beauty 0:25:42.636 --> 0:25:46.276 and sweetness and light. It was like fear and anxiety 0:25:46.396 --> 0:25:49.436 and worry and jealousy and all these things that they're 0:25:49.436 --> 0:25:52.836 all coming at me from a million different directions. It's 0:25:52.876 --> 0:25:58.916 just like this wave of emotion and I thought, holy shit, 0:25:59.076 --> 0:26:03.316 I thought, what kind of fool was I now? And 0:26:03.356 --> 0:26:06.636 you know, as I went through life, that faded away. 0:26:06.916 --> 0:26:10.756 Luckily, sorry that meaning. 0:26:10.716 --> 0:26:15.276 My ability to see those emotions in people dissipated over 0:26:15.316 --> 0:26:22.236 the next few weeks. But while it lasted, it was overwhelming. 0:26:22.396 --> 0:26:24.276 It was like devastating to me. 0:26:26.276 --> 0:26:30.996 I mean, I so appreciate the complexity you describe, and 0:26:31.076 --> 0:26:36.636 from what I understand, while the very acute results of 0:26:36.676 --> 0:26:40.956 the TMS have dissipated over time, there is this element 0:26:41.036 --> 0:26:44.636 of you can't unsee what you've seen, right, and you 0:26:44.676 --> 0:26:49.356 are you are altered permanently from this experience in terms 0:26:49.396 --> 0:26:51.356 of your perspective of the world. 0:26:51.996 --> 0:26:57.396 And I also felt like my dream was kind of shattered, 0:26:57.756 --> 0:27:00.036