1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:02,639 Speaker 1: Welcome to the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: a Paranormal podcast Network. Now get ready for another episode 3 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:12,880 Speaker 1: of Dark Becomes Light with Heidi Halls. The thoughts and 4 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: opinions expressed by the host our thoughts and opinions only, 5 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: and do not necessarily reflect those of I Heart Media, 6 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:23,159 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio, Coast to Coast a Out, employees of 7 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 1: premier networks, or their sponsors and associates. You are encouraged 8 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: to do the proper amount of research yourself, depending on 9 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 1: the subject matter and your needs. You are listening to 10 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: Dark Becomes Light with Me, Heidi Hollis on the I 11 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Coast to Coast a M Paranormal Podcast Network. 12 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: Welcome to my show. Remember each week, this is the 13 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: place you come if you want to have your experiences 14 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: about anything out of the ordinary be expressed, explained, give insight, 15 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 1: or receive it. I want you to feel welcome, So 16 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 1: just go to my main website Shadow Folks dot com 17 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: or Heidi Hollis dot com and tell me what's going 18 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 1: on out there and I will share it here on 19 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: the air. Or if you want to be a guest 20 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:39,759 Speaker 1: on this program, you're also welcome to do that. As well. 21 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: Today is going to be a special show. As they 22 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: all are, right, we have a good time on this 23 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: program just talking about these things as we would with 24 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: any other topic. Humanly flawed sent to humor on top 25 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: of it, I hope. Anyways, we're all making ways in 26 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 1: this world. Today, we're going to explore the topic of synesthesia. Now, 27 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: what synesthesia is I'm going to have my guests, Patricia 28 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 1: Lynn Duffy explain after this first break. But it's something 29 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 1: that's been scientifically proven that at least four percent of 30 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: us have, and it is an extra level of sensory 31 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: input that we receive in this world. How we perceive it, 32 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: how we experience it, and we're all individuals. We all 33 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 1: have unique DNA for a reason, so we also interpret 34 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: the world differently. But there's a way to track synesthesia scientifically, 35 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: and that is what makes this even more precious to 36 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: all of us to know that we have these abilities, 37 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: We do have something that it's worth exploring, worth taking 38 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 1: those extra steps. And I'm going to share a little 39 00:02:55,800 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: bit about myself and my steps into synesthesia. I have 40 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: had Maureen Sieberg on this program sharing about her experiences, 41 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 1: her books, and she also interviewed me for one of 42 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: her articles in Psychology Today and her blog called Sensorium. 43 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: And now to share a little bit more about what 44 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: synesthesia is like for myself, because there's there's a ton 45 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 1: of different categories and I had never heard of it. 46 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: I had never had it explained to myself prior to 47 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: being connected to Maureen Sieberg, and I have always had 48 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: this understanding, this connection to what people would call inanimate objects. 49 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: I never saw a barrier, and as a kid they 50 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 1: might say, oh, you're just somebody with an act of imagination. 51 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: For myself, it was just known and I didn't feel 52 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: like I had to explain or even express it. It 53 00:03:55,560 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: was just there. And that seemed to transfer over from 54 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: you know, your teddy bear having a name and and 55 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: you have conversations as a kid, to oh, I'm going 56 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: to hit this volleyball, and to communicate and have this 57 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: understanding I'm going to hit you now, would you mind 58 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: hitting your mark? That was the communication that I always 59 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: seem to have And it wasn't like I had conversations. 60 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: It was just an understanding and uh, almost an acknowledgement too. 61 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: And it's hard to explain. But then you get something 62 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 1: like a computer, and a computer has a lot of 63 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: different components to it, and it just adds to the personality, 64 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 1: much like, hey, you might give your car a name, 65 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: you know, and it's like, doesn't have a personality, doesn't 66 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 1: have a certain trick to it to get it to 67 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 1: move the right direction, that kind of thing. But again, 68 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 1: it was nothing that I expressed as nothing I explained. 69 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 1: But then I noticed that sometimes, as a lot of 70 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: people who are in the paranormal world, we might exp 71 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: various street light inhibition, like the street lights will go 72 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: out when you're around it, and people call those people sliders. Well, 73 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 1: that happened to me all the time. And then you 74 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 1: have strange things going on with your electronics, lights flickering, 75 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: and a lot of things going wrong with computers or 76 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 1: cashier machines when you go to step up to them, 77 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: Like these things just happened. But I started noticing communication 78 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: almost like I don't even know how to express it, 79 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 1: but to get things to work better, because I felt 80 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:40,480 Speaker 1: like I was obviously insulting these machines that they were 81 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 1: not working for me. So I felt like I needed 82 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 1: to approach it differently, and wow, it changed a lot 83 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 1: for me. It didn't just remain as this conflicting nature. 84 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: Oh hide zapping things again. And I had a major 85 00:05:56,040 --> 00:06:00,479 Speaker 1: problem with static electricity, and I would zap everything and 86 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: zapped my fingertips so often during the day I started 87 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 1: opening doors with my elbows. It was really a big problem. 88 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: But I'm happy to say I found a way. I mean, 89 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:13,160 Speaker 1: we're always growing and learning, and I found a way 90 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,239 Speaker 1: to be able to get through this world with less 91 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: shocking and computers crashing on me. And then I started 92 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 1: seeing that these computer things in different machinery would cooperate 93 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:33,039 Speaker 1: and do things I didn't even think to ask. And 94 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 1: I give this example of playing Mario Brothers. I was 95 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 1: in college, and the first Mario didn't have a continuation 96 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: button or program or method of extending your time. If 97 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 1: you died at the end, you died at the end, 98 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 1: and you'd have to start every single level over from 99 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: the beginning. And I did that over and over. But 100 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:00,479 Speaker 1: I was switching between that one and Mario Brothers three, 101 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 1: which had a continuation right, so I'd say, would you 102 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: like to continue? Click yes, and it allowed you to 103 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: do that at least three times over. So I'm going 104 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: between these having a good old time. When one of 105 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: my friends walks into the room is watching me play, 106 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: and uh, I am not kidding. This was just so 107 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: wild to me. I died and my friend starts laughing, 108 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: as like, you gotta start all over from the beginning. 109 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: I said, no, I don't. It's going to ask me 110 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: to continue, and it asked me, would you like to continue? 111 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: I click yes, bling and I continue to replay that 112 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: last level over again, and my friend's jaw almost hit 113 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: the floor and was like, that doesn't happen. I said, 114 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: what do you mean? You're playing Mario one Mario three? 115 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: Does that the one that she's sitting there holding in 116 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 1: her hands, And I'm like, I've been replaying this level 117 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: for hours. I had no idea. Because I was switching 118 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: between them, I expected it to happen. And because I 119 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: expected it to happen, I found that to be a 120 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: special element in this whole process, this whole communication of 121 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: having no doubt. It wasn't me asking, but it was 122 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: ME anticipating and expecting, always, uh for something to happen, 123 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 1: and it would. And uh, I've I've heard now when 124 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 1: I spoke of this on a program with Maureen Sieberg 125 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: where they said, oh, there's a code that you click 126 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:36,439 Speaker 1: up left right, I don't know, something to allow yourself 127 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,319 Speaker 1: to continue at the end of that game, I'm like, 128 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 1: well this after all these years, um gee, I'm glad 129 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: I know that now, But back then I sure didn't 130 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: um to me. It was like, there's a screen that 131 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: never existed in this program, and it just did this 132 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: for me out of it the kindness of its heart, 133 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: I mean, out of expectation. What was this? It was 134 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: just so as are but it continues, it continues. I 135 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: had two separate screens on a computer okay, a computer 136 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: system at work. I'll just say it was working in 137 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: a in a federal type building at the time. And 138 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: this is just a year ago, and I'm like, I'm 139 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 1: putting on my background screens that i'd like for the 140 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: two different screens. Right, you share the same screen when 141 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: you have two different monitors. It's one giant screen. You 142 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: should not be able to have two separate looks or 143 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 1: anything like that. And I'm like, gosh, I really would 144 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 1: like to have two separate images for each screen. I 145 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 1: didn't question it, and I go to choose my two 146 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: images I wanted for each screen and lower behold, it happened. 147 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: I have two monitors hooked up to the same computer 148 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: working as one giant screen with two different changing images. 149 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 1: Mind you, it wasn't just the same image but changing ones. 150 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, this is awesome, it's working, having a 151 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 1: good old time with it. Well, somebody from the computer 152 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: department comes in months later and they're like, can I 153 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 1: speak with you? And like, yeah, sure, what It's like, 154 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:22,839 Speaker 1: how did you do this? I'm like, dude, what it's 155 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 1: like to have these two different images? You are sharing 156 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: one screen, your mouse goes between both screens. You cannot 157 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: have two separate images. And these are people who are 158 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 1: working for the government, high tech people. I t people, 159 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: and I said because I wanted it to and they're 160 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 1: just like minds blown and they were looking at it 161 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: trying to figure out how I did it, and I, honestly, 162 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 1: I just you know, another nod to this, uh this 163 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: expectation that seems to happen that I don't quite understand, 164 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 1: and I think some of it may be partly uh well, 165 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: this part is not Poulter guyst But I have other 166 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: instances that are like with inanimate objects, like an expectation 167 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: for something to happen and it does, and I'm like, hold, 168 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: I that was just too purposeful. That had to be 169 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 1: a Poulter guys. But um, some of it it's just, 170 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: you know, how do you explain there's there's a communication, 171 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: there's this this thing, this element, and Maureen Sieberg consider 172 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 1: me to be what's called a machine EmPATH. I never again, 173 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: I've never heard of synaesthesia. And then to be told that, 174 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 1: and one thing I would always admit, like, I don't 175 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 1: say I'm psychic, I don't say I'm a medium, but 176 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 1: I've always said I feel other people's pain, I feel 177 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 1: other things around me, and so I'm empathic, you know, 178 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: have empathy. So to move it to the level of 179 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:57,719 Speaker 1: machines inanimate objects, okay, I guess, uh, I guess that's 180 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:00,320 Speaker 1: where we're at. So that's what we're going to be 181 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:06,199 Speaker 1: speaking on synaesthesia with Patricia Duffy. And there's like over 182 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:10,839 Speaker 1: a hundred of these different types of synesthesia that people 183 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: live and it's an extension of themselves and I totally 184 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 1: get that. It's that that's sensory that just lets you 185 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: know you're connected to everything around you. It's part of you, 186 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 1: it's part of who you are. And uh, yeah, if 187 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: you ever want to check out the article that was 188 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 1: written on me by Maureen Sieberg. Uh, go to my 189 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 1: main website Heidi Hollis dot com or shadow Folks dot 190 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: com and it's right there. All right, you are listening 191 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: to Dark Becomes Light with me Heidi Hollis on the 192 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast, a paranormal podcast network. 193 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 1: Stick around, We'll be right back. With age, our skin 194 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: loses its elasticity. The most come into plaints are under eyebags, wrinkles, 195 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: crow's feet, and eyebrow. 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And 225 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: waiting for you right now, and with the app you 226 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 1: can hear classic shows from the past seven years, listen 227 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 1: to the current live show, and get access to the 228 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: art Bell Vault where you can listen to uninterrupted audio. 229 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 1: Head on over to the Coast to Coast a UM 230 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: dot com website. We a handy video guide to help 231 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: you get the most out of your mobile app usage. 232 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: All the info is waiting for you now with Coast 233 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 1: to Coast a M dot com. That's Coast to Coast 234 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: a l dot com. Welcome back. You are listening to 235 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 1: Dark Becomes Light with me Heidi Hollis on the I 236 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast Network. 237 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: Today's guest is Patricia lind Duffy. She is the author 238 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: of Blue Cats and Chartrusse Kittens, How Sinistates Color their worlds. 239 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: She is the first author to write about her synaesthesia, 240 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: and an audio version of this classic synesthesia story has 241 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 1: just come out with research, updates and music by sinist 242 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: musicians from Audible. Patricia feels that synesthesia opens a door 243 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: to what she calls personal coding, which is a greater 244 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: awareness of the diverse, unique ways each of us thinks, 245 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: feels and codes and knowledge. I am so excited to 246 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: be introducing Patricia Duffy. How are you doing today, Patricia, 247 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: I'm good, I'm good, And how are you today? Oh my, 248 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: it's been a wonderful and uh fabulous day. And the 249 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: world of synaesthesia. I wish I knew that this existed. 250 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 1: And you were the first to like step out and 251 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: say this is who I am and this is how 252 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: I experienced the world in a book. How was that 253 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: experience for you when you you did that. Well, Um, 254 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: I don't know if I can say I was the 255 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: very first to say that I'm a sinnesy, but I 256 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: it looks like I was the very first to write 257 00:16:55,600 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 1: a book about the experience of synesthesia. And yeah, it 258 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: was actually a wonderful, um kind of liberating experience because 259 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:09,880 Speaker 1: back when I was doing my research for the book, 260 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 1: so little was really known about synesthesia there what we 261 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: weren't many reports out in the media yet, and you know, 262 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 1: it was really unknown territory. And if I said to people, 263 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: you know, words have colors. From me, every word has 264 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 1: a different color. Which is the case. Um, I hear words, 265 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:35,360 Speaker 1: but I don't only hear them. I also see their colors. Um. 266 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: And this is probably a very common form of synesthesia. 267 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: It's only one of many varieties of synesthesia. There are people, 268 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: for example, who hear music, but they don't only hear 269 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,160 Speaker 1: the music, they also see the music. The music has 270 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 1: colors and shapes and sometimes even textures for them, sometimes 271 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:58,439 Speaker 1: even movement. There are all sorts of ways that the 272 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: senses can cross over and blend and combine, which is 273 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 1: really the kind of definition of synesthesia. For some people, 274 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:12,120 Speaker 1: words have tastes. Every word has a different taste. They 275 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: hear a word and it makes them taste something. So, 276 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: you know, yeah, I think the study of synesthesia has 277 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 1: shown us how different parts of the brain that we 278 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: thought didn't really have very much communication can have communication, 279 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,439 Speaker 1: and that this is really activated in some people and 280 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 1: maybe all people have this capacity. But yeah, I mean 281 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 1: your question is very interesting because, as I said, back 282 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 1: when I was first researching, it's so little was known 283 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 1: about it that people would kind of look at me like, 284 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 1: are you inventing this? Um? Do you just have a 285 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 1: very very active imagination? Um? Are you a little bit 286 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: you know, a little bit loopy? Um? So if um, 287 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 1: the fact that you know, the scientific community was embracing 288 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 1: the study of synesthesia. In fact, it was a researcher, 289 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: a very pioneering researcher UM at Cambridge University, Dr Simon 290 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: Baron Cohen, who was one of the first to lead 291 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 1: a research team trying to understand why it was that 292 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 1: some people experienced words as having color. And he actually 293 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: set up a series of brain scanning experiments where he 294 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 1: read a list of words to people who reported this experience, 295 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: and he looked on the brain scan and he found 296 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: that there was activation when they heard words. There was 297 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 1: activation not only in the part of the brain that 298 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: controls language production you would expect that to be activated 299 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 1: upon hearing words, but also in the part of the 300 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: brain that controls color perception. So to their surprise, you know, um, 301 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 1: it was as if people with synesthesia were experiencing words 302 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:02,159 Speaker 1: as colorful objects. And this was probably one of the 303 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 1: first forms of synaesthesia to be studied. But there's so 304 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: many different varieties of synesthesia and different ways that the 305 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:15,120 Speaker 1: senses can cross over and combine. And you know, interestingly enough, 306 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 1: once you know the scientific community was providing validation for 307 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 1: these experiences, we began to have conferences, academic conferences on synaesthesia, 308 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 1: and then more and more people started to kind of emerge, 309 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:34,159 Speaker 1: you know, and say, yeah, I've I've always experienced you know, 310 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: words is having color, or music is having shapes, or 311 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: or maybe even words as having tastes. But I you know, 312 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 1: I didn't know why. I didn't know whether I was, 313 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 1: you know, just crazy. I didn't know. I didn't want 314 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 1: to talk about it because it sounded weird to people. Um, 315 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,399 Speaker 1: but it was a wonderful thing, uh, just to find 316 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 1: more and more people at conferences on the internet. The 317 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: Internet really provided a wonderful world for people with synesthesia 318 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 1: and those who study them to connect and to form 319 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,199 Speaker 1: a community. And I think that the study of synesthesia 320 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: is really important because, you know, just as in recent decades, 321 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,640 Speaker 1: I think all of us have come to better appreciate 322 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 1: our human ethnic diversity, cultural diversity, and to appreciate that. 323 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 1: So the study of synesthesia is really just an extension 324 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 1: of that. We get now we get to appreciate our 325 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: neural diversity and the fact that that no two of 326 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 1: us is processing information in quite the same way. That's awesome. 327 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: So many times, like what you're saying, you know, I 328 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,880 Speaker 1: think children were put off to believe. Oh, you've got 329 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: an active imagination, that's all that is. And and now 330 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,439 Speaker 1: to be able to pull it into the scientific realm 331 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 1: and say no, actually, mom, let me point out to 332 00:21:55,359 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 1: you here pat Patricia Duffy's book, Um, this is a thing. 333 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:05,239 Speaker 1: This is really happening. And h I love that we 334 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 1: have that to go to. And you know, you're saying, 335 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,880 Speaker 1: how so many people are coming forward. I'm new to this. 336 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:17,880 Speaker 1: I'm so blown away with this reality that it were 337 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: a lot greater and more complex than we ever knew. 338 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: And to think that that there's still people that are 339 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: isolated and thinking that, like you said, my, it must 340 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:34,680 Speaker 1: be crazy. What's happening here? How can we encourage parents 341 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 1: who might have children who speak of seeing colors with 342 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:43,920 Speaker 1: music or whatnot. Well, you know, I'm really very happy 343 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:48,399 Speaker 1: to report and and in my in the audiobook version 344 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 1: of my book Blue Cats that just recently came out, Um, 345 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 1: I've included an afterward that has information about some of 346 00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 1: the latest research and trends and synesthesia uh that have 347 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 1: happened since the original print book was published. And now 348 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:09,159 Speaker 1: thanks to Dr Julia Simner, who is at the University 349 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,639 Speaker 1: of Sussex in England, there is now something called a 350 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: Synesthesia tool Kit for Parents, UM, and it is available 351 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 1: to teachers in schools UM to share with parents whose 352 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: children might have synesthesia. And it has information about synesthesia 353 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: and how it might work in the case of different 354 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: children in their language development, UM, in their uh, you know, 355 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: development in different different ways, and and what is the 356 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:47,879 Speaker 1: best way for teachers and for parents to react to 357 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: it and to encourage it. And UM, I think this 358 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 1: is a really wonderful development. And UM. Also, you know, 359 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: it's for too long. You know. When I when I 360 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,200 Speaker 1: was writing my book and I was interviewing other people 361 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 1: with synesthesia, you know, I had really so many kind 362 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:10,360 Speaker 1: of sad stories about people telling me childhood experiences where 363 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:14,400 Speaker 1: they mentioned that everybody's name had a color and their 364 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,919 Speaker 1: parents said, look, you must be very stupid or very 365 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: silly to say things like that. That doesn't make any sense. 366 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: And then of course the child feels like, oh no, 367 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,919 Speaker 1: there's I've done something wrong, there's something wrong with me. Um. 368 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 1: There was another person I interviewed who told me that 369 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,920 Speaker 1: when she was a child, she she told her parents, 370 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,400 Speaker 1: her teachers that you know, she said, yes, well, I'm 371 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 1: writing down the colors of everything you say, and the 372 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: teacher said, what are you talking about? The colors of 373 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: what I say? That doesn't make anything? You know, what 374 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 1: are you saying doesn't make any sense? And she began 375 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,879 Speaker 1: to feel that she had to hide this, and uh, 376 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:54,959 Speaker 1: you know, she said that she began to think of 377 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 1: it as a secret magic, that it was something you know, 378 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,160 Speaker 1: that she preached she which was a very good thing 379 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: because you know, many children begin to internalize the negative 380 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: reactions they've had. In the case of this person, she 381 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,879 Speaker 1: continued to appreciate it, but she just knew that she 382 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 1: couldn't you know, other people would not, so she didn't 383 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:19,479 Speaker 1: share it with most other people. UM. But it really 384 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:24,160 Speaker 1: is important that the parents know that there they don't 385 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:28,920 Speaker 1: need to worry if their children talk about sis synistate experiences. 386 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the child. Um. 387 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: There are many actually positive effects of synaesthetic experience. Synistheates 388 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 1: are are generally known to have particularly good memories. UM. 389 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: There was a study done at University of California at 390 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: San Diego that showed people with synesthesia various forms are 391 00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 1: eight times more likely to be in the creative fessions 392 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,199 Speaker 1: than people without synesthesia. Which means they're very very drawn 393 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:10,919 Speaker 1: to innovation, creativity, the arts. Um. And you know, we 394 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: know that sometimes synesthesia is not in every case, of course, 395 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 1: but sometimes it's connected to some very very you know, 396 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 1: special abilities, um, even kind of savant like abilities. So 397 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: synesthesia is not something that parents should discourage in children. 398 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:36,400 Speaker 1: Maybe try to listen, understand and encourage the child more 399 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: to talk about it and even to explicit Now, you know, 400 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: most parents are just most concerned does this prevent my 401 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: child from learning certain things? That's while that that they 402 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: have going through their heads, like is this a learning 403 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 1: disability or an extra ability? And you're leaning towards this 404 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 1: is more of an ability in the creative realm. But 405 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 1: there's also those who are very key into numbers and 406 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 1: musical notes and a spelling with synesthesia correct. Yes, actually 407 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 1: it seems to be um, you know, kind of an 408 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: enhancement of the ability to spell, because the words are 409 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:23,160 Speaker 1: the child is kind of visualizing words quite automatically spelled 410 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 1: out in their different colors. Fascinating. 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You are listening to Dark Becomes Light with 454 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 1: me Heidi Hollis on the I Heart Radio and Coast 455 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 1: to Coast AM Paranormal podcast Network, And I have Pat 456 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: Duffy who is really giving us a low down on 457 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 1: what it is to be human. Some people would say superhuman, 458 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: but I'm feeling like this is a human ability that 459 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: so many of us do have. But it's not a 460 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 1: huge percentage necessarily. So how do we know that though? 461 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 1: I mean I think I heard the number was at 462 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: four percent of the population. Yeah, four percent of the 463 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: population experienced some form of synaesthesia. Um. And there are 464 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 1: I think according to the most recent data, there is 465 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: something like at least sixty five different different forms of synesthesia, 466 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 1: different ways that the senses can blend and and combine 467 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 1: and uh and and create particular perceptions. Um. So there 468 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,719 Speaker 1: are many, many different forms of synesthesia. And it seems 469 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: the more we study it, the more we realize that 470 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 1: it's a it's a it's a lot more common. When I, 471 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 1: for example, when I first started doing my research into synesthesia, 472 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 1: which was probably in the early nineteen nineties. I think 473 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 1: the statistics I read were, oh, this is something extremely rare. 474 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 1: Maybe one in ten million people experience this. And okay, 475 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 1: after the Cambridge University study it was one in two thousand. 476 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 1: That was back in the n or something like that. 477 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: Now with you know, with subsequent studies, we realize it's 478 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 1: even a lot more common than that. It's something like, 479 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 1: you know, as you said, four percent of the population um. 480 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 1: When it comes to the kind of synesthesia that I experience, 481 00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 1: the colored word colored numbers synesthesia is between one and 482 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: two percent of the population um. It's probably one of 483 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: the most common forms of synesthesia. Uh, and it's also 484 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: been probably the most studied form um. But I think 485 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: there's a lot a lot more, a lot more studies 486 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 1: to be done in this area. I also think that 487 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:26,280 Speaker 1: synesthesia opens a door to considering so many different types 488 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: of perceptions, um that all of us have, because it's 489 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,479 Speaker 1: not only people with synesthesia, it's every person on the 490 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 1: planet that has a very unique neural pattern, a very 491 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 1: unique way of processing information and and for coding knowledge. 492 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 1: And then in the opening you mentioned personal coding, and 493 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 1: that's what I mean that now and it's not an 494 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 1: emotional thing or can it evoke and intertwined emotions like 495 00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: when somebody hears music they might get goose bumps. Uh that, 496 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 1: I mean, it doesn't quite make sense. Why would somebody 497 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 1: get goose bumps? I mean, is that kind of a 498 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: laid into synesthesia type experiences or what are we what 499 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 1: are we speaking of as all neurological or is that 500 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 1: spiritual emotional content deep in there? I think it's I 501 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 1: think it's uh, you know, it's all part of a continuum, 502 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: let's say, of or you know, of a spectrum of 503 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 1: possible ways human ways, right that we can react for 504 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: some people report a very you know, a very great 505 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: emotional component to their synaesthetic experience. Um. Certainly with music. 506 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: Music evokes emotions anyway, and the color is just becomes 507 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:52,160 Speaker 1: another aspect of that, you know, that that emotional you know, 508 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:56,360 Speaker 1: simulation that the person feels. Um in the even in 509 00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 1: the case of words synesthesia, there I've been tribuwed synies 510 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 1: states that personify the letters of the alphabet. They say, 511 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:08,279 Speaker 1: I don't experience this myself, but um, you know a 512 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 1: number of people will say, oh yeah, each letter of 513 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,920 Speaker 1: the alphabet has a particular personality. And there are some 514 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,439 Speaker 1: letters that I like because you know, they're very they're 515 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,360 Speaker 1: very kind of easy going and friendly, like like the 516 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,799 Speaker 1: letter OH or the letter P. And there are some 517 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 1: letters like K that I don't like because you know 518 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 1: that you know, they're kind of a sharp angular, you know, 519 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 1: nervous sort of sort of person if it's not that 520 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:38,839 Speaker 1: warm and and fuzzy. UM. So, you know, people there 521 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:42,759 Speaker 1: is an emotional component to synesthesia. I think the emotional 522 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:47,399 Speaker 1: component might vary with with the individual. UM. There are 523 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,799 Speaker 1: some people who are kind of more you, yeah, the 524 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:53,319 Speaker 1: words have colors, but they don't feel a great emotional 525 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 1: attachment to any of the colors. It's just kind of 526 00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:01,240 Speaker 1: observing what they are. UM. So think people can experience 527 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:06,920 Speaker 1: it many in many different ways. Interestingly, UM, there is 528 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:12,239 Speaker 1: a professor Roger Walsh at the University of California, Irvine, 529 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 1: and UH he found that people who don't normally experience 530 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:21,840 Speaker 1: synesthesia will experience it when they are in very deep 531 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 1: states of meditation. He followed a group of very serious 532 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,879 Speaker 1: meditators over a number of years, and he found that 533 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 1: this was an experience that quite a lot of them 534 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: began to have, even though they did not have it 535 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 1: before they started meditating or when they were not meditating. 536 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,600 Speaker 1: So you know, this also kind of indicates some sort 537 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 1: of capacity in in in all of us, um for 538 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 1: for a synesthetic experience. We know that people report experiences 539 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 1: like that sometimes when they take hallucinogenic drugs, right, we 540 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,759 Speaker 1: know that, UM people have report we did, oh yeah, 541 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:04,360 Speaker 1: the music had all these ship moving shapes, and maybe 542 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 1: they did not experience that without the drug experience. But 543 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:14,239 Speaker 1: obviously the drug activated something some capacity which maybe in 544 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:19,080 Speaker 1: some people. Who knows why some people that capacity is 545 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 1: just automatically activated. That's fascinating because it lets us know, 546 00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 1: like you said, it's just something that is attainable somehow 547 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:34,239 Speaker 1: in some form. And and as we've discussed on another occasion, uh, 548 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,880 Speaker 1: sometimes people have brain injuries and it triggers a certain 549 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 1: part of the brain to interpret the world as it 550 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:45,439 Speaker 1: was meant to be maybe or however it is more 551 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 1: unique now to the person. So the brain is so magnificent. 552 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 1: And and you know, with the type of audience that 553 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 1: I have, and we're all into uh, matters of the 554 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 1: extreme and the mysterious, I'm areas of people who have 555 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:09,200 Speaker 1: these different varieties of synaesthesia are interpreting also the world 556 00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:14,439 Speaker 1: of the paranormal or spiritual experiences more easily or more 557 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:18,479 Speaker 1: profound than the next person. I mean, how how would 558 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: you think somebody could uh, Like, for instance, some people 559 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:24,360 Speaker 1: see a ufo in the sky, there could be fifty 560 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:30,360 Speaker 1: people there. Some people don't see anything, others see a handful, 561 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:34,839 Speaker 1: will see extraordinary colors, while others will just see metal disk. 562 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:41,000 Speaker 1: You know, Like, what are we talking about here? Yeah? This, 563 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,399 Speaker 1: this is this is one of the great mysteries of perception. 564 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,920 Speaker 1: And you know, and perhaps the study of things like 565 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:51,400 Speaker 1: synaesthesia will will kind of enlighten us about that. But 566 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:55,279 Speaker 1: but but you're absolutely right, I would say in interviewing, 567 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,480 Speaker 1: you know a great number of synaesthes from my book, 568 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:03,799 Speaker 1: there's there's really a kind of spectrum. I mean, there's 569 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:07,480 Speaker 1: a there's a whole array of ways that people interpret 570 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:12,640 Speaker 1: their synesthesia. However, um I would say that you know, 571 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:17,759 Speaker 1: synesthesia synesthetic experiences have often been reported as part of 572 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:25,399 Speaker 1: mystical experiences. Um I. There's for example, there is a 573 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 1: part of the Bible uh in Exodus where the people 574 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 1: are gathered with Moses at Mount Sinai, and it describes 575 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:40,680 Speaker 1: how together. They all they all saw the voice of 576 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:46,280 Speaker 1: God and heard visions. So it seems, you know that 577 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:52,439 Speaker 1: that certainly sounds like a very synaesthetic description. Um. We 578 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:56,919 Speaker 1: also know that, you know, Rambo and Baudelaire, right, these 579 00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 1: great poets of the nineteenth century. Um, they were fascinated 580 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:06,919 Speaker 1: with synesthesia. In fact, it was quite fashionable in that 581 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,840 Speaker 1: in that circle of poets to be a true Synisthe 582 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:14,960 Speaker 1: because some of the poets had these kinds of you know, 583 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:19,240 Speaker 1: very kind of mystical experiences as a result of experimenting 584 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:23,239 Speaker 1: with with drugs, right that were that were popular at 585 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:27,480 Speaker 1: the time, with hashish and so on. They had experiences 586 00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:31,720 Speaker 1: like that. But Rambo actually, you know, he he loved 587 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:37,560 Speaker 1: reading medical encyclopedias to try to find some reference to 588 00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:41,880 Speaker 1: what he had experienced, you know, during these altered states. 589 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:46,239 Speaker 1: And in reading the medical encyclopedia he was amazed to 590 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:50,640 Speaker 1: find that there was actually a documented condition. Back then 591 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:54,440 Speaker 1: it was it was referred to more as chromosthesia, which 592 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:59,560 Speaker 1: is you know, you know, uh sort of color sensation. Um. 593 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,760 Speaker 1: And without taking any drugs at all. He said, wow, 594 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,920 Speaker 1: you mean there are people who just they just experienced 595 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:10,880 Speaker 1: what I experienced without doing anything special without ingesting anything. 596 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:16,040 Speaker 1: And he thought these people must be connected automatically, in 597 00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:22,000 Speaker 1: touch with some more sublime level of reality. And there 598 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,920 Speaker 1: was there was that belief among the circle of nineteenth 599 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:30,480 Speaker 1: century poets, and in fact, it led Rambou to writing 600 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:34,400 Speaker 1: a very famous, what became a very famous poem called 601 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,640 Speaker 1: Sonnet of the Vowels, where he talks about how each 602 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:42,000 Speaker 1: vowel has a different color and then um, you know, 603 00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,640 Speaker 1: that description kind of spins off into this description of 604 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:49,120 Speaker 1: all sorts of surreal landscapes and and so on in 605 00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:55,880 Speaker 1: the poem. And interestingly, scientists at the time, the scientific 606 00:40:55,880 --> 00:41:00,000 Speaker 1: community was so fascinated by the poem that it actually 607 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:04,520 Speaker 1: really you know, they began to to to study synesthesia. 608 00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:07,840 Speaker 1: War Before that, it had been a documented condition, but 609 00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,800 Speaker 1: people didn't, you know, most scientists didn't pay much attention 610 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,839 Speaker 1: to it. Um. But after that, I think something like 611 00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:18,480 Speaker 1: four times the number of papers on synaesthesia were presented 612 00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:22,040 Speaker 1: as at a major academic conference in Paris, I think 613 00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:26,720 Speaker 1: it was the Conference on Physiological Psychology in eighteen eighty nine. 614 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,640 Speaker 1: And and and after that, you know, the study of 615 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:34,279 Speaker 1: synesthesia was was taken more seriously. It stopped at a 616 00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:38,799 Speaker 1: certain point um. People say when behavior of psychology came 617 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:43,359 Speaker 1: in vogue later in the twentieth century, UM, and you know, 618 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,520 Speaker 1: there was no way to kind of take in an 619 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:50,480 Speaker 1: empirical way whether people were really having What did people 620 00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:53,000 Speaker 1: mean when they said they were having these these these 621 00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 1: unusual experiences. We don't have any way to test for that. 622 00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:57,680 Speaker 1: How do we know it's really happening. Maybe it's just 623 00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:01,000 Speaker 1: their imagination. You know, things are often dismissed as you 624 00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:05,960 Speaker 1: as you've mentioned earlier, UM, things are often to dismissed as, oh, 625 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,480 Speaker 1: it's just your imagination, UM, or maybe you're just an 626 00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:12,840 Speaker 1: artistic type of And indeed, even when it comes to 627 00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:15,279 Speaker 1: the topic of UFOs, but we're finding out o G. 628 00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:17,680 Speaker 1: The government had them all along. Well, we've got to 629 00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:21,080 Speaker 1: get to hardness break. You are listening to Dark Becomes 630 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:23,640 Speaker 1: Light with me, Heidi Hollis on the I Heart Radio 631 00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:27,360 Speaker 1: at Coast to Coast AM Jennimal Podcast Network. We'll be 632 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:32,240 Speaker 1: right back. 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You 662 00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,320 Speaker 1: are listening to Dark Becomes Light with me Heidi Hollis 663 00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:50,320 Speaker 1: on the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM 664 00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:54,040 Speaker 1: Paranormal podcast network and I have Hat Duffy and Wow, 665 00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:57,160 Speaker 1: we're really getting into the conversations of what it is 666 00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:01,600 Speaker 1: to be a real human and seems like the possibilities 667 00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:06,719 Speaker 1: of evolutionary processes that are going on among a lot 668 00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:10,319 Speaker 1: of us four percent officially, but and we're finding that 669 00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,880 Speaker 1: it's something that can be triggered as well. And you know, 670 00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:18,640 Speaker 1: it's something when it comes to those who experience synesthesia, 671 00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:22,320 Speaker 1: and you're speaking of, you know, words that have colors 672 00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:27,160 Speaker 1: or sound to these individuals, is it always consistent what 673 00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,719 Speaker 1: they see and experience or is it something that's changing 674 00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:34,520 Speaker 1: for them as well? Well? Generally it's considered one of 675 00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:39,480 Speaker 1: the hall marks of of of synesthetic experience that um, 676 00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:43,040 Speaker 1: generally speaking, the colors if you have particular colors for 677 00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:46,880 Speaker 1: words or alphabet letters or musical notes that this is 678 00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:50,640 Speaker 1: this is very consistent. And in fact, that is one 679 00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:55,160 Speaker 1: of the tests. UM. You know, when UM universities do 680 00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:59,799 Speaker 1: their studies of synesthesia and they look for subjects, for volunteers, 681 00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:03,120 Speaker 1: so objects to be in these studies, well, they want 682 00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:06,520 Speaker 1: to know, you know, just this person really experienced synthesia, 683 00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:09,239 Speaker 1: or maybe they just think they do. They're not really 684 00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:11,520 Speaker 1: sure what it is, and they do give a test, 685 00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:13,920 Speaker 1: and one of those tests is that they have the 686 00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:17,840 Speaker 1: person identify all, for example, the colors they experience for 687 00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:22,960 Speaker 1: their alphabet, all twenty six letters and colors, and then 688 00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:26,960 Speaker 1: six months later they'll call they'll just, you know, without warning, 689 00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:30,120 Speaker 1: call them back into the lab and say, okay, could 690 00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:32,920 Speaker 1: you tell tell us what those colors are again? And 691 00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:37,120 Speaker 1: it has to be something like nine consistent. They know that, UM, 692 00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:42,200 Speaker 1: that it always is for genuine synesthates, and it's it's 693 00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:45,640 Speaker 1: not for for other people. Even if they try to 694 00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:50,120 Speaker 1: memorize most people, UM can't you know, can't retain all 695 00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:55,640 Speaker 1: of that existency without warning is important. Now this is 696 00:46:55,680 --> 00:47:00,640 Speaker 1: a this, this this little synaesthetic aspect of some people experience. 697 00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:06,719 Speaker 1: I think would be very distracting when people describe tasting 698 00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:11,399 Speaker 1: words or or names of things. It's like, I think 699 00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:14,400 Speaker 1: I understand better that phrase you put a bad taste 700 00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:19,239 Speaker 1: in my mouth. Well, interestingly, you know, I think some 701 00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:26,520 Speaker 1: of our metaphors might originate from people's synaesthetic experiences. Um. 702 00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:30,359 Speaker 1: But yeah, you're absolutely right. Um. Now, this is also 703 00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:33,680 Speaker 1: an interesting thing about you know. There there are different 704 00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:37,799 Speaker 1: kinds of synesthesia. There's what we call developmental synesthesia, which 705 00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:41,839 Speaker 1: means ever since the person can remember that, you know, 706 00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:45,000 Speaker 1: words have had color, or music has had colors or shapes, 707 00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:48,719 Speaker 1: they don't know what it is to experience that in 708 00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:51,560 Speaker 1: any other way. It's just always been that way as 709 00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:55,840 Speaker 1: far back as they can, you know, they can recall. Um. 710 00:47:56,840 --> 00:48:01,640 Speaker 1: There are other people who might suddenly developed the synesthetic 711 00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:05,600 Speaker 1: experience as a result of a brain injury. They might 712 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:09,040 Speaker 1: have a head trauma, for example, and as a result 713 00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:12,680 Speaker 1: of that, uh, you know, sounds they hear in words 714 00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:16,200 Speaker 1: they here tend to take on colors which they did 715 00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:21,799 Speaker 1: not have before. There are differences in the two experiences, 716 00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:26,920 Speaker 1: um uh. For example, the people who have synesthesia as 717 00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:29,799 Speaker 1: a result of head injury, usually the colors are not 718 00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:33,239 Speaker 1: very consistent. They could. You know, you could hear the 719 00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:35,080 Speaker 1: same sound and it might be read one day in 720 00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:39,479 Speaker 1: green the next day. UM, and it is distracting for 721 00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:42,960 Speaker 1: those people. It's very distracting for those people because they 722 00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,520 Speaker 1: have you know, they have not experienced it before, this 723 00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:49,479 Speaker 1: suddenly coming into their consciousness. UM. It's not a way 724 00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:54,360 Speaker 1: that they've you know, they've kind of processed information before. However, 725 00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:58,000 Speaker 1: developmental synthesis who say, well, it's always been like that 726 00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:01,360 Speaker 1: for me, are not distract by the experience. It's just 727 00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:05,560 Speaker 1: part and parcel of what they've always how they've always 728 00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,400 Speaker 1: perceived the world, and it would seem very strange to 729 00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:12,640 Speaker 1: them if suddenly they didn't have it anymore. Um. If 730 00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:16,520 Speaker 1: you ask, you know, most synathees, and I'm sure there 731 00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:19,600 Speaker 1: are some exceptions, there might be, you know, there are 732 00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:21,640 Speaker 1: might be some people who say, oh, sometimes it's just 733 00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:25,120 Speaker 1: overwhelming and I would rather not have it, But the 734 00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:28,799 Speaker 1: vast majority will say, oh, no, I would never want 735 00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:30,480 Speaker 1: to lose it. If you said, well, if I could 736 00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:33,200 Speaker 1: snap my fingers and your synaesthesia would go away, would 737 00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:37,480 Speaker 1: you would you like that? They say no, no, why 738 00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:40,279 Speaker 1: would I want colors to disappear? Why would I want 739 00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:43,160 Speaker 1: this other dimension of things to disappear. It's a part 740 00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:46,680 Speaker 1: of you. And I find it interesting too. I've read 741 00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:51,600 Speaker 1: somewhere that those who are remote viewers or are considered 742 00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:55,680 Speaker 1: to be psychic or a medium, that the best ones 743 00:49:55,800 --> 00:50:01,080 Speaker 1: and those fields have synaesthesia. Well, you know, it wouldn't 744 00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:04,640 Speaker 1: it wouldn't. It wouldn't surprise me that that that would 745 00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:07,520 Speaker 1: be an aspect of their experience. It's just you know, 746 00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:14,520 Speaker 1: synesthesia is about kind of having more avenues, right, more dimensions, uh, 747 00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:20,440 Speaker 1: to process information, to process the world things that are 748 00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:23,279 Speaker 1: coming in. And so it wouldn't surprise me at all 749 00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:25,440 Speaker 1: of synesthesia was part of that for something. With the 750 00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:31,960 Speaker 1: folks that are experiencing the paranormal, the UFOs and even 751 00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:36,320 Speaker 1: something they consider to be interdimensional, I can see how 752 00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,879 Speaker 1: it is more profound for those certain people and how 753 00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:44,040 Speaker 1: they may be better at, say doing remote viewing, uh, 754 00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:47,279 Speaker 1: if they do have those extra avenues. That's it's it's 755 00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:51,880 Speaker 1: kind of intriguing. I'm I'm I'm really curious about some 756 00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:56,880 Speaker 1: of the scientific research and what they find when those 757 00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:01,000 Speaker 1: areas of the brain get triggered. But what stage would 758 00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:05,239 Speaker 1: you say this research is at. It sounds like it's 759 00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:08,120 Speaker 1: just forever growing, Like there's just so much that still 760 00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:12,319 Speaker 1: hasn't been covered. Yeah, I think right now, a lot 761 00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,279 Speaker 1: of Uh, you're absolutely right. I mean this is such 762 00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:21,040 Speaker 1: a vast field. Um, and I think we're we're still 763 00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:26,239 Speaker 1: in the very very beginning stages of it. Um. I 764 00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:29,600 Speaker 1: think it's some very important research going on now. Is 765 00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:35,000 Speaker 1: how synesthesia develops in in children. Um. A long time ago, 766 00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:39,839 Speaker 1: we had research on babies, you know where we know 767 00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:43,719 Speaker 1: that babies, let's say less than six months old, what 768 00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:46,120 Speaker 1: we could say that they all in a way of 769 00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:50,280 Speaker 1: synesthesia because um, you know, the you know the world 770 00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:53,359 Speaker 1: that the baby perceives as kind of coming in as 771 00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:59,160 Speaker 1: one undifferentiated whole because the brain has not developed enough 772 00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:04,440 Speaker 1: yet to kind of compartmentalize all of its functions. You 773 00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:07,200 Speaker 1: know that I'm hearing this, but I'm smelling this, but 774 00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:11,680 Speaker 1: I'm seeing this, I'm touching this. Um, you know, everything 775 00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:16,160 Speaker 1: is kind of is kind of one. So actually, one 776 00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:19,520 Speaker 1: theory of synesthesia is that that you know, as the 777 00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:24,120 Speaker 1: brain matures and begins to compartmentalize its functions, in some 778 00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:28,000 Speaker 1: people this doesn't come you know, this process that does 779 00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:33,920 Speaker 1: not completely take place, some overlap still remain and that 780 00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:37,480 Speaker 1: is why you know, those people will continue to have 781 00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:41,440 Speaker 1: this kind of blended perception in some area with maybe 782 00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:46,480 Speaker 1: words having tastes and and so on. However, very recently 783 00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:50,680 Speaker 1: we have more research on synesthesia in school aged children 784 00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:53,239 Speaker 1: because you know, as you said before, our parents are 785 00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:56,440 Speaker 1: very concerned. They want to know, ye know, they want 786 00:52:56,480 --> 00:53:00,279 Speaker 1: to know everything that um, their child maybe experienced saying 787 00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:02,520 Speaker 1: and if it's something that they should be concerned about 788 00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:07,200 Speaker 1: or or you know, not concerned about or um. So 789 00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:09,960 Speaker 1: I think this is a this is a real area 790 00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:12,960 Speaker 1: of focus right now. Another area focuses whether or not 791 00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:18,200 Speaker 1: synesthesia can be learned um by adults. Um can you 792 00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:23,239 Speaker 1: can you teach it? Um? And actually there there is 793 00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:27,040 Speaker 1: uh there is a researcher who says that he was 794 00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:31,280 Speaker 1: successful at teaching a group of adults to experience colored 795 00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:35,320 Speaker 1: words and asthesia too. Um after a nine week training 796 00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:39,920 Speaker 1: period where they they read, they read every day on 797 00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:44,160 Speaker 1: tablets where the words were written in in various colors 798 00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:48,160 Speaker 1: in a very consistent way. UM. So that after that 799 00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:51,719 Speaker 1: nine week period a lot of them would report actually 800 00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:55,440 Speaker 1: even when they read black text, you know, the usual 801 00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:58,440 Speaker 1: black text against a white background, in some way, they 802 00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:02,040 Speaker 1: would they would continue to experience the colors, which is 803 00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:06,040 Speaker 1: what syniestates will report to UM. The difference is that 804 00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:09,480 Speaker 1: that with that experimental group, it kind of all faded 805 00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:12,280 Speaker 1: for them, maybe you know, two or three months after 806 00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:15,640 Speaker 1: the study, where with syniestates it never fades. It's just 807 00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:19,520 Speaker 1: it just stays, just stays with fascinating. I think that 808 00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:23,279 Speaker 1: having more conversations about this, it's really going to expand 809 00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:27,920 Speaker 1: and open up a lot of people's minds to helping 810 00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:31,520 Speaker 1: to explain for themselves and others around them what it 811 00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:34,640 Speaker 1: is that they've been experiencing. I I know for myself 812 00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:38,040 Speaker 1: coming across us and and and getting some things explained 813 00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:40,080 Speaker 1: to me. I know that I have synesthesia. I know 814 00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:43,440 Speaker 1: I'm a synistate. And it seems like the list is 815 00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:46,800 Speaker 1: just growing and growing, all the different avenues that people 816 00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:50,480 Speaker 1: experience synesthesia. So I'm I commend you for your work 817 00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:53,080 Speaker 1: and for being so brave to step forward and and 818 00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:56,600 Speaker 1: being the first to report because uh, in your in 819 00:54:56,640 --> 00:55:00,879 Speaker 1: your book, because there's something special about the person that 820 00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:03,400 Speaker 1: does that. There's so many that could say they're a 821 00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:05,680 Speaker 1: researcher of this or that, but to be a researcher 822 00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:09,000 Speaker 1: and an experiencer even in the field of the mysterious 823 00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:11,919 Speaker 1: is really important. What are some of the resources that 824 00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,359 Speaker 1: you can give for people to learn more about this 825 00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:19,440 Speaker 1: The Synesthesia tree dot com um. I also hope that 826 00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:24,080 Speaker 1: that everyone is familiar with this wonderful column on synesthesia 827 00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:28,840 Speaker 1: in Psychology Today, a kind of regular blog that's written 828 00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:33,480 Speaker 1: by Maureen Sieberg, who's who's interviewed a great variety of 829 00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:36,640 Speaker 1: celebrated synithy. And by the way, this might be a 830 00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:39,160 Speaker 1: good a good chance to say that synisthates are in 831 00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:41,719 Speaker 1: good companies. Some people that are out there in the 832 00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:45,040 Speaker 1: public eye have talked a lot about their sinisation. For example, 833 00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:48,960 Speaker 1: Billie Eilish has talked about her experiences of the colors 834 00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:54,160 Speaker 1: of of music, as as Pharrell Williams Rights famous for 835 00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:57,480 Speaker 1: his song Happy. There are more and more synisthy characters 836 00:55:57,480 --> 00:56:01,880 Speaker 1: in fiction. It is is growing and growing. And Maureen 837 00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:04,680 Speaker 1: is a great friend and she interviewed me but in 838 00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:07,960 Speaker 1: Psychology today, so I feel fortunate to meet you and 839 00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:11,279 Speaker 1: her and wow, opening up a lot of eyes. Thank 840 00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:14,400 Speaker 1: you so much, Patricia Duffy for coming on the show today. 841 00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:17,520 Speaker 1: This is great. Oh, thank you for having me. I'm 842 00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:20,560 Speaker 1: so so enjoyed talking to you, thank you, thank you, 843 00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:24,279 Speaker 1: Blue Cats and Sharp Truth Kittens. Everybody be sure to 844 00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:28,120 Speaker 1: check out her new audible book and also remember to 845 00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:30,960 Speaker 1: go to shadow Folks dot com or Heidi Hollis dot 846 00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:33,440 Speaker 1: com and send over whatever it is that you're experiencing 847 00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:36,319 Speaker 1: out of the ordinary. And with that we've come to 848 00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:40,360 Speaker 1: the bottom of another fabulous episode. I hope to catch 849 00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:44,359 Speaker 1: you next week. This has been Dark Becomes Light with 850 00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:47,640 Speaker 1: me Heidi Hollis on the I Heart Radio and Coast 851 00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:51,839 Speaker 1: to Coast a paranamble podcast network. We'll see you next time. 852 00:56:52,120 --> 00:57:05,799 Speaker 1: Be safe, goodbye, everybody. M h M. Well, if you 853 00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:08,920 Speaker 1: liked this edition of Dark Becomes Light, wait till you 854 00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:11,360 Speaker 1: hear the next one. You've been listening to the I 855 00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:15,360 Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Coast Coast a m paranormal podcast network. 856 00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:19,200 Speaker 1: H