WEBVTT - FTX Bankruptcy Fallout Continues to Cause Crypto Chaos 0:00:03.440 --> 0:00:07.480 This is Bloomberg Crypto Daily Bloomberg Podcast. It's Tuesday in 0:00:07.520 --> 0:00:11.520 November and I'm Baldana Hirich in today for Stacy Marie Ishmael. 0:00:25.840 --> 0:00:28.159 Listeners of this show who followed the news know that 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:32.279 the crypto industry erupted into chaos in recent days when 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:34.760 there was a run on the crypto exchange f t X, 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:38.600 which froze withdrawals and in a matter of ours, declared bankruptcy. 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:41.560 If you are just joining us, turn up the volume 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:45.360 for this cryptocurrency exchange, f t X filed for Chapter 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:50.200 eleven bankruptcy following several days of enormous turmoil. The latest 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:53.520 reporting from Reuters says SPF is seeking a nine point 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:57.040 four billion dollar package for an f t X bailout. 0:00:57.320 --> 0:00:59.920 It started way back when last week when a tweet 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:04.160 finance CEO Chang pangs Al said that his crypto exchange 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:07.120 planned to sell ft x's native token f t t 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:10.360 due to risk management issues that ended up driving the 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:13.720 token's price down by some ninety percent. And soon after 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:17.600 f t x as CEO Sam Bankman Freed started shopping 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:20.640 around for a bailout and halted withdrawals on his platform. 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:23.520 We also just thirty six hours later, got news that 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:26.320 f t X ended up filing for bankruptcy and that 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:30.240 SPF was resigning. Here with us today to go over 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:34.399 everything that happened is Bloomberg reporter Katie Greifeld. Katie, thank 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:49.040 you so much for joining me today. So, Katie, obviously 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:53.520 this has been incredibly hard on so many people. So 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:56.480 we have institutions that have been involved with this that 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:59.080 are hurting. We also have a ton of retail investors 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:01.920 who are who have lost a lot of money. So 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:06.320 maybe just to start tell us what the hell happened? 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:08.640 You know, it's a great question, but I think you 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:11.920 make a great point that that's what's at stake when 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:16.000 you think about this. Whole conversation is centered around customer funds. 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:19.440 What happened to the customer funds where they mishandled. Those 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:23.560 are people's investments, that's people's money. So again, I think 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:26.560 that's an important jumping off point that that's what we're 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:28.720 really talking about at the end of the day, just 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:32.680 exactly we're going to lose money in terms of what 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:36.160 the hell happened. I think we're still facing that together. 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:40.200 But it seemed like it started as a big Twitter 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:44.480 feud basically between c Z at Finance and SPF at 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:50.080 fd X, and it quickly turned into I think even 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:52.320 people in the know would tell you that they were 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:55.320 shocked at how quickly this moved, that they didn't even 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:58.400 know f t X was on sale, let alone that 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:01.760 Finance would buy it. And then almost as quickly as 0:03:01.760 --> 0:03:04.960 Binance had said that they were going to basically buy 0:03:05.080 --> 0:03:07.720 FTX to help with their liquidity issue getting back to 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:11.040 the customer funds, they pulled out. And then I mean 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:14.360 all they deal exactly, and all of this was happening 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:15.840 in the span of a few days, and by the 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:18.560 end of the week, ft X had filed for Chapter 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:21.880 eleven bankruptcy. And now it just feels like we're watching 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:24.239 for the fallout. Where do we go from here? And 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:26.839 even in that very quick timeline that I just laid out, 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:31.480 there's so many details and happenings that, uh, it just 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:33.639 felt like a house of cards when it all came 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:36.680 down at once, basically, and just for me in talking 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:38.400 to people, and for you as well, because you and 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:40.640 I have covered f t X in the past. Over 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:42.640 the last couple of years, we've been writing quite a 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:45.600 bit about it and obviously about the crypto space, but 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:49.960 this really had been the gold start within crypto, right. 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:52.960 People thought of it as a very reputable place and 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:56.480 people a lot of people thought very highly of SPF, 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:59.520 of same Maignement Freed, and so possibly that's also one 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:02.000 of the reasons that this has just been so much 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:04.400 more shocking for a lot of people, right. I think 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:07.240 that's exactly right. I mean, if you think back to 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:10.360 what happened a few months ago with Do Kwan and 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:13.360 Terra and Luna, for example, I mean there had been 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:17.040 do Kwant skeptics out there, it was still shocking the 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:20.200 scale in the magnitude, but you could go back in 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:23.920 the timeline, go back to Twitter and find people sort 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:26.880 of ringing the alarm bells for months as to this 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:31.000 looks unsustainable f t X, totally different situation. Like you said, 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:34.240 SPF was really really trusted. I mean, the man was 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:38.920 testifying in front of Congress, mazines exactly on the cover 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:42.880 of magazines. And I think that's the common denominator now 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:46.279 when I talked to people, it's it's it's shocked, but 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:49.120 it's also it feels like people are just stunned, and 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:53.120 it feels like the magnitude of you know, how far 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:56.599 f t X is reached is much larger. It feels 0:04:56.600 --> 0:05:00.200 like everyone had exposure to f t X some how, 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:03.040 or to Alameda somehow, because again we're talking about an 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:06.640 entire empire here. That SPF was running a huge empire. 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:08.760 You know that the FTX was not only one of 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:11.520 the biggest crypto exchanges, it was also seeking to bail 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:15.039 out other struggling crypto firms across the industry, while Sam 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:18.360 making Freed was actively trying to change policies in the 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:22.400 United States. Actually, in their bankruptcy filing on Friday, something 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:27.360 like a hundred and thirty subsidiaries or companies that are 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:31.160 tied to the ft X empire are also named in 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:34.960 the bankruptcy filing. But Katie, were still obviously sifting through 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:38.839 the rubble. We might be for years to come, depending 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:41.320 on what happens in terms of the bankruptcy and what 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:45.400 regulators do. But Bloomberg did report over the weekend about 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:48.919 just what a mess the books actually were at f 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:51.120 t X. Maybe you can talk about that. Yeah, you 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:53.320 read this story and you, I don't know, kind of 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:56.240 get a clearer picture of why finance pulled out because 0:05:56.880 --> 0:06:00.360 uh a, look at a breakdown of the balance sheet again. 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:02.760 The day before that, they that f t X, ultimately 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:07.600 filed for bankruptcy, had nine billion dollars in liabilities nine 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:11.760 hundred million dollars in liquid assets. So that's a pretty 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:16.000 big mismatch five point five billion dollars in quote less 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:19.560 liquid assets and three point two billion dollars in a 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:23.160 liquid assets. This is, of course, according to sources familiar 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:26.120 with the matter. Um the st has been all over 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:29.200 this story too, and they broke the news that the 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:32.360 largest asset was two point two billion dollars worth of 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:36.480 a cryptocurrency called serum filled Donna. I had never heard 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:39.080 of serum before I read that story. I had, but 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:41.640 only because I used so many face serums, so the 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:44.800 name had really like caught my eye, that is so funny. 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:49.120 I had not my skin was serums. Yeah, my skincare 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:52.080 routine is not as rigorous. So this was total news 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:55.359 to me. But what it's just, I mean, what do 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:58.760 you even say? It's shocking speechless, which is bad for 0:06:58.800 --> 0:07:03.080 a podcast, bad talking, But it's gonna make for really 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:06.200 really interesting core case. I think, yes, bankruptcy core case. 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:08.599 But just to go back to your point about what 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:12.680 happened over the summer with the Tera Luna implosion, just 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:14.880 to catch up listeners. That was a stable coin, an 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:18.480 algorithmic stable coin that lost its peg basically and wiped out. 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:21.720 I think it was something like sixty billion dollars in value. 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:25.160 And I know, for me, having covered crypto for almost 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:28.960 five years now, every time something does implode or something 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:32.760 negative happens, when I talk to people, what they tend 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:36.400 to tell me is, well, you know, whether it's some 0:07:36.480 --> 0:07:39.240 sort of some form of regulation. What they tell me 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:41.600 is the regulation is good, we need regulation, or some 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:44.200 price crash they say it's fine, we're taking some froth 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:47.360 out of the market, or I mean, it doesn't matter. 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:50.640 There's always some sort of positive spin where you can argue, well, 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:54.520 it's taking out weaker players, etcetera, etcetera. This time around, 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:57.680 I feel like the commentary, at least from people I 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:02.760 talked to, has been much more serious, almost like gravely serious, 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:05.800 where people are telling me that they're scared of everything 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:07.960 that's going on. I don't know what conversations have been 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:09.600 like for your what the Maybe you can give us 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:12.440 a sentiment check. Yeah, I would agree with that. I 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:17.120 mean it seems like the consensus is that this should accelerate. 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:20.320 I mean, the US has been all over the place 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:24.400 on crypto regulation. It's still unclear which of the letters, 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:28.280 meaning the CFTC, the SEC who actually act has any 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:31.560 oversight over the industry. And I mean Congress too has 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:34.120 made noises about you know, we're looking at this, we're 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:37.160 taking this seriously. I don't know the consensus at this point. 0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:39.599 And again, the industry, it just feels like everyone is 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:41.880 very shell shocked at this moment. But the consensus seems 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:46.240 to be surely this accelerates regulation in some way. What 0:08:46.360 --> 0:08:50.079 that looks like, I'm not sure, but it remains to 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:52.520 be seen. Well, we tend to hear the word regulation 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:56.160 thrown out, thrown around a lot, but yeah, we'll see 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:59.760 what actually happens. Whereas we have people on one end 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:03.480 saying maybe we'll see more regulation of these centralized exchanges, 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:05.720 and on the other hand saying, you know, it could 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:08.040 be much more widespread than that. Joe Wisenthal actually hit 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:13.520 a great point newsletter. He made the point that crypto 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:16.439 regulation it's a bit of an oxymoron. We've heard that 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:20.120 phrase before, that regulation crypto oxymoron. But he made the 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:23.640 point that if you think about the blockchains, they are 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:27.800 the law. The consensus mechanism is the law of that 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:30.320 blockchain and how the coins move around, and you compare 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:34.560 that to actual fiat currency. They are creatures of the 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:39.200 government of that law. So if you regulate crypto, you 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:42.040 have two competing laws there. So again there's a lot 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:44.240 of this is a meta conversation. I know, there's a 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:49.559 lot of philosophical questions about can you even regulate crypto? So, 0:09:49.640 --> 0:09:52.079 just to go back to your point about the terror, unplotion, 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:54.920 et cetera. You have actually written about this, How does 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:59.280 this compare to past implosions? And I think actually in 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:01.640 your story you may some comparisons even to what happened 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:06.240 with Enron back in two Yeah, yeah, no, it it's 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:09.400 important context to put this in past blow ups that 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:13.360 we've seen over the past few decades. I mean a 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:16.200 lot of people have compared this to a Lehman moment. 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:19.520 I think it was Larry Summers, the former Treasury secretary, 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:21.760 who said, no, this is more like Endron. But if 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:24.240 you again, if you look at all these big scandals, 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:27.439 they have the same basic ingredients. You have a lot 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:30.840 of easy money coming from the governments, from the central banks. 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:35.280 You have really hyped innovation, uh, and you tend to 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:39.920 have some central characters. And that's what's going on here. 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:44.120 And it's just not to blame everything on the Federal Reserve, 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:47.040 which is really easy to do, but think about how 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:51.360 aggressively the cycle has changed since this time last year. 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:54.880 I mean, the FETE is on its biggest rate hiking, 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:58.439 most aggressive rate hiking cycle that we've seen in decades. 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:01.800 There's a lot of liquidity coming out of the system. 0:11:01.840 --> 0:11:04.280 I mean, lines go up in a bowl market. One 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:06.640 of my favorite lines in that story was that a 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:11.040 bowl market basically covers a lot of sins. And now 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:13.160 you're seeing the flip side of that. The cycle is 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:17.680 turning and the bad actors are getting exposed. Bad actors 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:20.040 being used very broadly here. Obviously there's a lot of 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:23.800 investigations going on which will hopefully bear fruit. But the 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:26.840 point being that once you do have the shift in 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:32.360 the macroeconomic backdrop, the lines stopped going up and it 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:35.280 gets a lot harder. So should we be blaming the 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:39.120 FED or crypt people blaming the Fed? I think crypto 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:42.600 people don't really know who to blame at this point. 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:44.400 I mean again, to compare it to what we saw 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:47.520 with Tera, you had a lot of you know, people 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:50.439 feeling vindicated, saying like I called this, you know, like 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:52.920 the red flags were there, you just weren't looking closely enough. 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:56.240 It feels like what's happening with f t X. It's 0:11:56.360 --> 0:11:59.920 just a very existential moment for the entire crypto industry 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:03.000 because again you think about spfs reached the reach of 0:12:03.040 --> 0:12:06.400 the f t X empire. It had its tentacles in 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:11.199 virtually every corner of the market. Coming up more with 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:13.920 Katie and me on the future of digital assets after 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:30.160 one of the toughest weeks in crypto, we'll be right back. Well, 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:32.280 even if you didn't know what f t X was, 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:36.559 you likely saw their logo or their branding because they 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:39.080 what they did over the last two years during the 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:42.600 pandemic is they did a huge sports push, right Larry 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:44.760 David was in their s David was in their Super 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:47.640 Bowl ads, so was Tom Brady, and so was Gasel 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:49.959 his his now ex wife. Can I talk to you 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:52.520 about something, Yeah, we talked about it. I got another 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:56.440 ten years left. Not that this is big, you know. 0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:59.880 So they had celebrities going out during their advertising. They 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:02.040 had their name on some on a sports arena, I 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:04.800 believe the one where the Miami Heat place. They also 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:12.240 had branding on umpire jerseys. It was everywhere. It was everywhere. 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:15.679 So for for the average person, it's very likely that 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:19.600 they were at least aware of the company. If not, Yeah, 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:21.959 I had money, and that was all by design. I mean, 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:24.520 that was f t X wanting to be the face 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:27.760 of crypto and it worked. I mean, I don't know 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:31.480 what your personal conversations or your weekend looked like. This 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:35.720 was all I talked about. Against my will, I would 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:38.960 actually will to take a break, but it's all anyone 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:42.920 wants to talk about. It is. It's shocking. It's mainstream shocking. 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:46.040 One one reason it's been so shocking is because crypto 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:49.800 prices have sold off precipitously in the wake of this, Right, 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:52.600 So maybe we can we can talk and about this 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:55.520 a bit more and how it's also impacting retail investors 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:58.080 who might not have had money on ft X, but 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:01.439 they've they owned cryptocurrencies in some other way. And what 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:04.040 we saw is the ft t token, which is the 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:07.839 utility token from f t X, dropped something like and 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:10.480 then you had this huge sell off in bitcoin and ether, 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:12.920 and then some of the sort of like f t 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:18.400 X adjacent tokens like Salona Salona token. Really it's selling 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:21.400 off precipitously. Yeah, I don't know. I want to turn 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:24.920 this question. Do you actually Bitcoin obviously has sold off 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:30.240 a bunch. It's down well over sixty two, just as 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:32.360 tremendous draw down. And again you think about all the 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:35.200 retail players who were piling in this time last year. 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:37.760 It's a very painful story. But at the same time, 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:41.120 I'm kind of surprised that Bitcoin isn't even lower. Like 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:44.840 I made this point in this little email distribution list 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:46.760 I sent out on which you would you refuse to 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:49.440 add me too. By the way, it's just so listeners 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:53.480 are aware, I've never seen this, But I made the 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:55.120 point that if you had told me that f t 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:58.720 X would file for bankruptcy, I would not have believed you. 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:01.360 Like if you had told me a week or two 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:03.680 ago that it would come in the next five days, 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:08.720 I would be like, Okay, cool dream. And then if 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:11.440 you had told me that bitcoin would still be above 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:14.640 ten thousand dollars after that happened, I'd be like, no 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:18.600 way on earth this is a systemic player. So Bitcoin 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:21.080 has dropped a lot, and its dropped off a lot 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:25.120 of this news, but not as much as maybe I 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:27.440 would have expected. Maybe I'm naive there, but it seems 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:31.160 like there is some resilience to some Yeah, so it's 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:33.840 scary for people who are in the market, who are 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:36.920 very closely paying attention to the market and to the charts, 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:40.600 to see it dropped below certain key levels like the 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:43.400 low reached earlier this year, which we broke through, and 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:46.320 then even the round numbers like seventeen thousand per coin, 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:48.440 we broke through that. Then at one point we broke 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:51.200 through sixteen thousand. So the cell of has been you know, 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:57.200 it was over twenty at one point during last week 0:15:57.240 --> 0:16:01.480 when everything was unfolding and happening. But we've had huge 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:03.960 sell offs in some other ones, I mean just huge, 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:08.080 you know, more more than some of these alternative or 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:10.560 all coins. So I think a lot of the selling 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:14.520 also was happening there, and I think it makes the 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:18.320 point that bitcoin and the Bitcoin blockchain, like they really 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:21.240 are the o G s, you know, that is the 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:26.440 safe haven asset of the cryptocurrency safe haven. But obviously 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:28.440 you've still lost a lot of money, but you've lost 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:31.280 less money than if you were in Salana, for example, 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:35.600 which was very very hyped as the Ethereum killer Ethereum 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:38.800 being the second biggest blockchain, but again thinking about just 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:42.040 second biggest token exactly, you think about the vast reach 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:45.440 of SPF, of fd X, of Alameda. They were such 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:50.680 huge advocates of Salona, such big backers that that token 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:53.000 has taken the brunt of the selling here. Yeah, for sure. 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:55.320 So maybe just to wrap things up, we can talk 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:58.080 a little bit about some of the outstanding questions. What 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:00.400 are people telling you they'd like to be here about. 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:04.359 I've heard it seems like everyone would like to know 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:07.880 the fallout, like where to look for the next shoe 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:11.160 to drop, And there's a lot of potentials I've heard 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:14.040 to take a look at the lenders, for example, because 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:19.000 again Alameda SPFS Trading Arm was a big borrower, so 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:21.400 I think that will be important. Block five, for example, 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:25.600 has you know, halted withdrawals. I believe there's a few 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:28.480 other lenders out there, and the lending the crypto lendic 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:31.280 space was already shaky after what happened with Terra and 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:35.680 then the summer three hours Capital, so there's that. I mean, 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:40.760 it's been interesting. We heard from Galaxy, for example, they 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:43.840 had exposure in the tens of millions. I think that 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:46.080 is going to be sort of the drip feed of 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:50.960 information to watch is who else is exactly how how 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:55.720 how widespread is the fallout? But again, I've been asking 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:58.280 people exactly that question, what is the next shoe to drop? 0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:02.120 And it's a long list. I'm sure by the time 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:05.679 this podcast runs will actually have so much more information 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:10.440 because the news, the headlines, they've just been coming out incessantly. 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:13.439 It's like a five or ten year cycle compressed into 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:16.679 three days. Yeah. Well, Katie, it's been a joy as 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:18.360 always to talk to you, so thank you so much 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:20.840 for letting me chat with you today. Let's do it 0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:23.840 again soon. I hope we can do it tomorrow again, beautiful. 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:26.760 You can find more of our reporting on the Bloomberg 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:29.679 Terminal and on Bloomberg dot com, and for more, be 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:32.880 sure to check out our twice weekly newsletter, Bloomberg Crypto. 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:42.480 This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily podcast from Bloomberg and 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:45.480 I Heart Radio. For more shows from I Heart Radio, 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:48.840 visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:52.440 you get your podcasts. Send us your comments, questions, or 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:55.480 suggestions for the show to Crypto at bloomberg dot net. 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:01.840 The supervising producer of Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky very Galina. 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:05.920 Our senior producer is Janet Babin. Our producers are Mohammed 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:09.560 Faruk and Sharon Barriro. Our associate producers are Ty Butler 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:13.200 and Moses on Them. Desta wonder At is our engineer. 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:18.760 Original music by Leo Sidron. I'm Stacy Marie Shmal. We'll 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:19.480 be back tomorrow.