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Speaker 1: M hmmm, welcome back all the smoke. Season five. Jack

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Speaker 1: has been a nice three days.

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Speaker 2: That's the way they ended.

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Speaker 3: We get a strong three time NBA champ, n C

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Speaker 3: Double A Champ, Finals MVP in nineteen eighty eight Hall

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Speaker 3: of famer, his team was the reason I fell in

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Speaker 3: love with basketball.

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Speaker 2: A lot to the show. Yeah, James Worthy, appreciate youa

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Speaker 2: what a pleasure, man, appreciate it. I love what you

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Speaker 2: guys are doing. Man, ain't it's honored to be here

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Speaker 2: for real? Thank you?

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Speaker 3: I mean speak to obviously, the media crossover is prevalent

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Speaker 3: now with former athletes, but you kind of did it

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Speaker 3: and it wasn't as common. You kind of worked your media,

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Speaker 3: you know, your media journey to what you're doing now.

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Speaker 3: But speak to how you're seeing more players kind of

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Speaker 3: cross over now to how important you feel that is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's. Uh, I think it's imperative for

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Speaker 2: those who are interested.

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Speaker 4: Uh.

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Speaker 2: You know, I wanted to do radio. You know, they

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Speaker 2: always told me, you know, you have the face for radio.

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Speaker 2: So I was like, I was like, so I was

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Speaker 2: I was like, you know, I thought I could do that.

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Speaker 2: But then coming in coming to Los Angeles, Uh, you know,

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Speaker 2: being in the media, you know, environment and it being

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Speaker 2: you know, a lot of opportunities. I got an opportunity to,

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Speaker 2: uh to work a game because Stu Lands was working

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Speaker 2: with Chick Hearn and Uh, Stu had to go to

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Speaker 2: a funeral in his hometown, so I replaced him, and

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Speaker 2: Sue Stratton, who was the producer at the time, she says, hey,

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Speaker 2: you know you have a future in this. So every

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Speaker 2: ever since she told me that. That was a year

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Speaker 2: after I retired. Uh, and then I've always wanted to

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Speaker 2: be in the medias to something exposure like radio or

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Speaker 2: you know, even you know, uh investing in AM radio

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Speaker 2: stations with something I always you know, thought about. So,

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Speaker 2: but being in LA getting exposure, Uh, I sucked at

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Speaker 2: it at the beginning because you know, as an athlete

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Speaker 2: you have the knowledge. But then as you guys know

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Speaker 2: from taping and timing, you know, so it it took

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Speaker 2: me a while. So I worked. I worked at k

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Speaker 2: CAL nine. I worked for the Seattle SuperSonics with Kevin Collaboro,

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Speaker 2: just trying to get on tape. Uh, yeah, exactly, and

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Speaker 2: the Vancouver UH Grizzlies at the time before they moved

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Speaker 2: to Memphis. So and it's turned out to be a

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Speaker 2: great job. I enjoy what I do. I've gotten really

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Speaker 2: comfortable with it. So yeah, but I love to see

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Speaker 2: guys who are interested in it because they have a

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Speaker 2: lot to convey to an audience. You know, audience just

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Speaker 2: see a lot, but they don't always know why something happened.

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Speaker 2: And that's where the athlete comes into play.

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Speaker 3: Showtime Lakers, you guys as a whole has been in

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Speaker 3: the news a lot because of the winning time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Did you get a chance to watch that? And what

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Speaker 3: were your thoughts if you did?

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Speaker 2: You know, I haven't watched it in detail sometime i'd

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Speaker 2: be because I said I wasn't going to watch when

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Speaker 2: the first start.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so to tell me, so that wasn't cleared by you?

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Speaker 3: What was the written? It was a book written by Peerlman.

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Speaker 3: So you know, players don't really have rights to anything.

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Speaker 2: You know, when it comes to uh, you know, writing

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Speaker 2: movies and books and things of that nature. So the

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Speaker 2: book was written, and I remember doing a couple of

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Speaker 2: interviews on one interview for the book of several years ago,

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Speaker 2: which turned into a series. Uh. And you know, the Lakers,

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Speaker 2: you know, had their own legacy. Uh, so we were

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Speaker 2: focused on that. But lately every now and I'm going

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Speaker 2: through the channel. You know, I don't want to stop,

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Speaker 2: but I'll stop because they you know, they presented me,

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Speaker 2: and I wanted to see the guy that was playing me.

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Speaker 2: You know, for for fans who you know, who lived

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Speaker 2: that era and some who didn't, and they like it.

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Speaker 2: You know, sometimes it's a little satire, not always exactly

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Speaker 2: what it. You know, I don't. I really didn't have

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Speaker 2: a problem with it. I didn't really watch it because

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Speaker 2: I lived it. It just looked weird to me to

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Speaker 2: watch it. And I know how Hollywood is, so you know,

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Speaker 2: I was cool with it. I would have liked to

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Speaker 2: have taken part in it.

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Speaker 5: It was.

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Speaker 2: It was. It was a great decade. You know, there

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Speaker 2: was more to it than you know, all the all

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Speaker 2: the crazy stuff. You know, it was Larry and magic.

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Speaker 2: You know, there was a radical part to it. You know,

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Speaker 2: there was a race component to it, you know, the

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Speaker 2: West Coast and Boston. Uh. And I think it could

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Speaker 2: have been much better better, But for those who enjoyed it,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's all good.

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Speaker 3: I held off watching it because I heard the former

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Speaker 3: players weren't stamping it.

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Speaker 2: But once I started watching I liked it. I hear

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Speaker 2: the same thing man Strong for y'allah. I watched that.

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Speaker 6: I think that the guy who played Bird did an

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Speaker 6: excellent job. Man yeah, he for He'll fool you to.

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Speaker 2: Do the play.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I thought they got a lot of the

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Speaker 3: guys right as far as like portraying them. You know,

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Speaker 3: they guy to play j.

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Speaker 2: I thought Kareem was good. You know, I thought Jerry Buss,

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Speaker 2: you know, from what I saw I heard, I mean,

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Speaker 2: it wasn't it wasn't his accurate as I remember, you know,

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Speaker 2: but you know, when you're making a movie, you have

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Speaker 2: to uh you know, uh yeah. So you know, my

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Speaker 2: hats off to him.

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Speaker 3: Lakers this year kind of made an unexpected run. Last year,

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Speaker 3: I thought that Roblink had a really good summer grabbing

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Speaker 3: some pieces. Thoughts on them this year.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, after you know, and I'm not in

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Speaker 2: the moral seasons and more big is I was. I

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Speaker 2: was okay with what they did, considering what they you know,

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Speaker 2: had to go through, had had trade deadline been like December,

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Speaker 2: and they'd had a chance to make some moves early,

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Speaker 2: and you know, and I love Westbrook. Sometimes the chemistry

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Speaker 2: is now what it should be you know, it just

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Speaker 2: didn't work out. But after that, you know, I thought

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Speaker 2: the run that they made to get into the play

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Speaker 2: in was was pretty amazing. And then Memphis and Golden Stakes,

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Speaker 2: so they're looking to compound on that, you know, picking

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Speaker 2: up I really like Gabe from Miami, uh, you know,

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Speaker 2: and some of the guys, but the key, you know,

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Speaker 2: Austin Rivers, who I think is emerging as a really

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Speaker 2: improved player. Rui. Uh and then Wood who they picked up.

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Speaker 2: Share what you want to about Woods, He's the numbers

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Speaker 2: gallon and so John Yeah, see runs farm, you know.

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Speaker 2: You know, so I feel that they this is like

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Speaker 2: Lebron's one of his last runs and uh but I

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Speaker 2: think it's it's going to be up to what a

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Speaker 2: D wants to do exactly. Uh. You know, Lebron is Lebron,

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Speaker 2: but it's a d's team and I think it's time

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Speaker 2: for him to uh and I think he understands that. Uh. So, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I feel really good. You know, Golden State's going to

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Speaker 2: be are They're gonna make one more run. I think

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Speaker 2: with the guys of course, Denver, uh, you know, Phoenix

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Speaker 2: defended with Booker. You never can count them out. So

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Speaker 2: it's gonna be interesting, it's gonna be hot tomorrow.

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Speaker 3: Get an opportunity to watch bron a lot lately. He

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Speaker 3: passed your former teammate obviously last season as an all

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Speaker 3: time scoring just being able to see him and play

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Speaker 3: with Magic, play with Jordans. What have you seen from him?

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Speaker 3: Obviously a little bit later in his career, but just

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Speaker 3: his body of work and his run during his.

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Speaker 2: Leader Yeah, his his body at work is uh, is

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Speaker 2: pretty amazing coming out of high school. Uh, you know,

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Speaker 2: college is where you get the repetition of skills and

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Speaker 2: work and you get to do the drills for him

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Speaker 2: to come you know, straight out of high school. Of course.

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Speaker 2: Amazing body and for what he's done, you know, regardless

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Speaker 2: of if he's done it with three teams, he's done it.

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Speaker 2: And uh, he has a formula to longevity. Uh. You know,

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Speaker 2: he's in the he's in the talk of you know,

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Speaker 2: you know, being one of one of the one of

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Speaker 2: the greatest. I can't say, you know who the greatest is, right,

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Speaker 2: I Mean, if I had to guess, I would have

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Speaker 2: to go with Kareem with his full body of work.

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Speaker 2: I think it's I think it's a full body of work.

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Speaker 2: If you've seen it all, you can make a determination.

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Speaker 2: But Lebron uh, you know, to be uh playing like

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Speaker 2: a twenty some year old dominating the way he has.

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Speaker 2: Of course, the science and the and and and the

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Speaker 2: theory of the game of how you stay in shape

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Speaker 2: and diet everything, it's changed tremendously. But his his ability

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Speaker 2: to will reminds me of magic. You know, you're comfortable

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Speaker 2: with him on the floor because you knows something it's

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Speaker 2: going to happen. Good an assist guy a score. So

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Speaker 2: I like his body at work, and you know he'll

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Speaker 2: be mentioned in obviously the top three or four.

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Speaker 5: He's mastered the longevity play.

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Speaker 2: He's massive. He mastered that better than anybody that I've

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Speaker 2: ever seen in any sport, including golf. When you can

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Speaker 2: play for a long time in golf. But I mean,

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Speaker 2: I mean you look at what you know, what he's

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Speaker 2: been able to do and still able to do. Two

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Speaker 2: pay close attention to details and sacrifice, you know, to

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Speaker 2: keep his body afloat. And they have the will sometimes

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Speaker 2: you know, it's mind of a matter, right, and he

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Speaker 2: has that.

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Speaker 6: Growing up in Gastonia and North Carolina, I played basketball

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Speaker 6: up the road at Okhill yeah, what do you remember

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Speaker 6: about your childhood?

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Speaker 2: Man? Childhood was it was there was no exposure, about

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Speaker 2: thirty thousand people, uh from Gaston in and the education

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Speaker 2: was poor. You know, my dad had an eighth grade education.

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Speaker 2: My mom went back to college to get a nursing

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Speaker 2: you know degree later twenty three years after she graduated.

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Speaker 2: So it was it was tough and you don't realize

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Speaker 2: the situation you're in until later. I didn't realize what

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Speaker 2: I had been through until I went to college. When

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Speaker 2: you when you poor young, you don't know you poor.

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Speaker 2: You just don't know. Well, my mom and dad were

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Speaker 2: home every night, as opposed to some of my neighbors

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Speaker 2: who didn't have that. I mean, I thought we were rich.

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Speaker 2: You know, we had something to eat, biscuits in my lasties,

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Speaker 2: you know, my grandmother lived around the corner, so I

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Speaker 2: you know, I was happy. But you know, as far

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Speaker 2: as the educational system, you know, when I took the

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Speaker 2: SAT and I was like damn. And then you know,

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Speaker 2: I had reading disabilities and because of the education system,

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Speaker 2: the school system was really corrupt and you know, depending

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Speaker 2: on where you lived. And I went through integration, you know,

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Speaker 2: and and in elementary school. So that was. That was tough.

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Speaker 2: Uh So my childhood was was sheltered, uh not a

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Speaker 2: lot of conversation in my house. My mother was really submissive,

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Speaker 2: my dad was who he was, and I, you know,

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Speaker 2: my childer brothers we grew up and said, we're never

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Speaker 2: going to be like our dad. You know he was

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Speaker 2: you know, he was never home hardly. You know, we

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Speaker 2: we ended up just lik him. So those cycles, you know,

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Speaker 2: they perpetuate themselves as you get older, and until you

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Speaker 2: able to break those cycles, they will disrupt your life.

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Speaker 2: So I deal with a lot of like mental therapy

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Speaker 2: right now, trying to get guys to focus on don't

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Speaker 2: be ashamed to sit down with the therapist, because I'm

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Speaker 2: sixty two and for the last past fifteen years, I've

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Speaker 2: been breaking these cycles you know of DNA. You know,

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Speaker 2: you look like your parents. Yeah, you know, you walk

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Speaker 2: around the town and say, oh you so and so son,

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Speaker 2: So you look like them, but you also bring forth

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Speaker 2: a lot of that pain, a lot of that anxiety,

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Speaker 2: you know, uh, resentment, shame, you know, especially you know

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Speaker 2: for a black man who who has dealt and still

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Speaker 2: deals with, you know, systemic racism on a daily basis,

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Speaker 2: for what you have to deal with. Then you've got

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Speaker 2: to come home and try to, you know, compose yourself

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Speaker 2: when you really don't have, you know, a voice. I

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Speaker 2: didn't have a voice. I got married without a voice,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean. I didn't have any expression.

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Speaker 2: I just I played ball, you know, girls liked me,

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Speaker 2: you know, but I didn't have I didn't have a voice.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know how to live in that environment. I

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Speaker 2: lived into my thirties like that. So, you know, that

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Speaker 2: was my childhood. That's what my childhood yielded me. So

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Speaker 2: it's important to kind of grasp those moments. If you can't,

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Speaker 2: I kind of wish that, you know, study hall and

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Speaker 2: pe and high school or in junior high could be

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Speaker 2: replaced not so much with a psychiatrist, but with conversation

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Speaker 2: to kind of help these kids move along, because otherwise

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Speaker 2: you'll bury it, you'll internalize it, explode, and you won't

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Speaker 2: be able to convey it. And yeah, it comes out.

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Speaker 2: It's gonna come out somewhere drinking, you know whatever. Women,

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Speaker 2: it's gonna come out somehow in a negative way. So

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Speaker 2: we need to we need to deal with that. You know.

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Speaker 2: We go to the barber shop and that's where we get.

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Speaker 2: That's our therapy. But it's okay. You know, I grew

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Speaker 2: up weak. What I'm not going to see no da

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Speaker 2: going to see no they. I've seen our communities in

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Speaker 2: our community, you know, buck up, you know. So we

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Speaker 2: were taught that, but we need to realize it's okay, man,

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Speaker 2: it's okay to you know, sometimes you have to cry,

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Speaker 2: sometimes you have to get that ship out. That's that's that.

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Speaker 2: That was my childhood. But my child was cool. Nothing

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Speaker 2: to do. Sports, that was it. If you didn't have sports,

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Speaker 2: you were you were going to be either going to

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Speaker 2: the military or depending on your you know, your your education.

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Speaker 2: You you know, some people went to college. But uh,

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Speaker 2: it was nothing to do but sports. Know, we had

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Speaker 2: no gangs or nothing like that. So you know, if

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Speaker 2: you were caught up, you know, go downtown, try to

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Speaker 2: steal something. There was a lot of that going on.

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Speaker 2: But we had sports, and we had the boys about this.

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Speaker 2: My brothers took me around six grades. They had a

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Speaker 2: league called Gray Why and it was through the y

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Speaker 2: m c A. Through your elementary school at the time

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Speaker 2: was one through six. But the goals were only uh

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Speaker 2: five eight and they had a height limit. I barely

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Speaker 2: made the height limit. I think it was like five

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Speaker 2: seven into something. I was tall, but I knew I had,

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Speaker 2: you know, some future. In the eighth grade, like in

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Speaker 2: the seventh grade, I was like six feet and from

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Speaker 2: seventh grade to eighth grade, I grew like five. And

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Speaker 2: I was at the boys club. Uh my director, mister Perry,

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Speaker 2: was talking to some high school guys who were athletes

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Speaker 2: and they were football players. And I heard him say, scholarship.

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Speaker 2: You can get a free ride if you get a scholarship.

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Speaker 2: And I had no idea really what scholarship was all about.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, you can get a free ride

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Speaker 2: to college if you you know, if you're if you're balling.

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Speaker 2: I had two older brothers in college, my mom and dad.

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Speaker 2: We was scuffling put them through school. So that's when

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Speaker 2: I really got interested. Wasn't that good in football baseball?

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Speaker 2: So yeah, start getting busy.

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Speaker 5: When you hear the name Dean Smith, will comes to mind.

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Speaker 2: Conscious brother. He was a conscious man. You know. He

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Speaker 2: really used his platform too to enroll you into what

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Speaker 2: was possible in your life. He developed good citizens. And

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Speaker 2: you see that not with Michael and Sam and I

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Speaker 2: and Vince. You see it with all his lettermen who

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Speaker 2: have done well. He took us to play a game

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Speaker 2: with North Carolina State Prison. We went in there and

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Speaker 2: this was in eighty and you know, I wasn't comfortable.

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Speaker 2: I mean, they were looking at us in different ways

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Speaker 2: than basketball. But he was. He was. He's that kind

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Speaker 2: of guy, you know, he's it didn't matter if you

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Speaker 2: were Michael Jordan or Michael the Tower Boy. So he

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Speaker 2: used his platform very well to kind of prep you

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Speaker 2: for life and keep you humble.

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Speaker 6: Did he make you feel not only wanted, but like

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Speaker 6: family and your recruiting process.

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Speaker 2: He's very honest, so you know, and a lot of

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Speaker 2: people don't believe it's when I tell him, But he

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Speaker 2: was strictly by the book. I mean you've been asking

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Speaker 2: mj saym anybody. There was no you know, money or

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Speaker 2: anything involved. But he'd come in and tell your parents.

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Speaker 2: He got to know your parents really well. He promised

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Speaker 2: you three things. She's like, I promise you son and graduated.

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Speaker 2: If he stayed four years, I promise you that you know,

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Speaker 2: he'll go to class. And if he's we require you

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Speaker 2: to go to the church your first semester. And my

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Speaker 2: mom was sitting over there and I know. I know

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Speaker 2: when she heard that, she was like, damn, that's where

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Speaker 2: he's going. But he was really honest and I always

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Speaker 2: loved him since he bought Charlie Scott was the first

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Speaker 2: black ACC player to come to the ACC, and Coach

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Speaker 2: Smith took a lot of heat. They tried to fire him,

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Speaker 2: They hung him in f g after a game, but

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Speaker 2: he used to take stands like that. Took Charlie Scott

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Speaker 2: the church with him, took him to restaurants in sixty

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Speaker 2: seven where blacks weren't still allowed. So I knew about

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Speaker 2: him early. I got to go to basketball camp, but

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Speaker 2: I fell in love with guys like Phil Ford, Walter Davis,

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Speaker 2: guys like that, you know. So you know, Mitch cup

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Speaker 2: Check was there, so I was. I was kind of

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Speaker 2: tied in, locked in from like fifteen years old.

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Speaker 6: Is it is it true that he left w UNC

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Speaker 6: players money for a stake gental when he passed.

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Speaker 2: Two hundred dollars. Yeah, every letterman that played for him,

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Speaker 2: and I think he was like sticking it to the NCAA. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I take care of my player. Yeah, find out I'm

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Speaker 2: to do something, you're not gonna be to do anything

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Speaker 2: about it. But and then you know, he used to

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Speaker 2: write personal notes. He'd have his secretary type him up

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Speaker 2: and then at the bottom it would always be ps

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Speaker 2: and he would write a few lines. So he had

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Speaker 2: he had special special touches like that, and a memory

337
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Speaker 2: like he wouldn't believe, which was which was sad to

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Speaker 2: see him have dementia at the end of his life.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, he had a memory that it was like amazing.

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Speaker 6: Everybody talk about MJ's championship shot nineteen eighty three against

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Speaker 6: Georgetown the championship, but you had twenty eight thirteenth seventeen

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Speaker 6: from the field. Why don't talk about that? It was

343
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Speaker 6: on your shoulders. But what's your take on that? Well,

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Speaker 6: you did, Joe John.

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Speaker 2: You know, if you watch the the Michael Jordan documentary,

346
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Speaker 2: it was the Chicago that not the hair movie. I

347
00:19:55,359 --> 00:20:00,360
Speaker 2: had a statement, you know, Michael came to Carolina tell

348
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Speaker 2: everybody I was I was better than Michael. Yeah, yeah,

349
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Speaker 2: you know for about three weeks weeks, for about three weeks, man,

350
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Speaker 2: I knew he had it. When you're an athlete and

351
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Speaker 2: you guys are both tough, I watched you. I watched

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Speaker 2: your whole career. You know, when you're when you're tough

353
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Speaker 2: and you're not going back down from anybody, and you're

354
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Speaker 2: gonna take them on. But then when somebody comes along

355
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Speaker 2: that the fuck is tougher than you, they're like, he

356
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Speaker 2: was an assassin and he bullied me. He because you know,

357
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Speaker 2: he's he sought out the best and everything. If you

358
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Speaker 2: were the best backgamming player in the dorm, he wanted

359
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:43,600
Speaker 2: to know. If you were the best card player, he

360
00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:47,160
Speaker 2: wanted to find out, and he took everything as if

361
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:51,920
Speaker 2: he was losing a game seven. Losing just wasn't I

362
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:53,760
Speaker 2: didn't care what it was. He'd break a table if

363
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Speaker 2: he lost the backgam And so he sought me out,

364
00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:58,119
Speaker 2: and you know, we practiced two hours, two and a

365
00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:00,719
Speaker 2: half hours. You guys know how to call practice. Are

366
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:02,800
Speaker 2: you ready to get out of there? And he would

367
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Speaker 2: I'd be walking off the court and he pushed, where

368
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:06,720
Speaker 2: you're going, young, young fella, that's what he called me.

369
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,640
Speaker 2: So you were junior when he was junior freshman year,

370
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Speaker 2: and so yeah, you know, he wanted to know and uh,

371
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:18,040
Speaker 2: and throughout that year, even though I was, you know, MVP.

372
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Speaker 2: There were some games against Virginia in the ACC tournament

373
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Speaker 2: where Michael kept us in the game and some big

374
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Speaker 2: shots against you know, Ralph Sampson and those guys. And

375
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Speaker 2: then against Georgetown, we only had really five players against

376
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Speaker 2: Patrick Ewan and my home boys sleeping floor, and they

377
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 2: were tough. Uh, but Michael hit some big shots and

378
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,480
Speaker 2: kept us in, you know, I and then at the

379
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Speaker 2: end of the game, Coach Smith wanted me to be

380
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:50,720
Speaker 2: like a decoy, you know. You know, we had we

381
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Speaker 2: had lost to Indiana the year before Isaiah Thomas and

382
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Speaker 2: Bobby Knight, so getting back was was special and I

383
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Speaker 2: wanted to win or lose.

384
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Speaker 6: He'd been punching on Mike. I beat, I beat. I

385
00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 6: would always beat Mike. That's yeah, you know Zeke Zeke

386
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:14,600
Speaker 6: fit opinion alone. Man, he had a good career. It

387
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:17,280
Speaker 6: was awesome. Uh.

388
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:19,960
Speaker 2: But yeah, man, uh, you know, because you know they

389
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:23,080
Speaker 2: expected me to, you know, to take the shot. You know,

390
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:25,480
Speaker 2: we run a high low against their zohn. Patrick Ewhan

391
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:29,439
Speaker 2: was a beast, and I wanted to win and lose.

392
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Speaker 2: Because Michael was a freshman. I didn't you know, I

393
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,840
Speaker 2: didn't know if he had it in his veins. But uh,

394
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 2: I was to flash in the mill. Coach Smith didn't

395
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:40,240
Speaker 2: call it up like that, but he knew it would

396
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,640
Speaker 2: work out that way. We ran our offense properly, So

397
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 2: we ran the high low, Sam went down low, I

398
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:52,360
Speaker 2: flashed in and three guys collapsed and Michael was wide open.

399
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 2: Now he he didn't draw it up like that. But

400
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 2: at the end of the time out, you know, when

401
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,159
Speaker 2: you're walking back on the court, Michael was one the

402
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 2: last guys. And I heard Coach Smith kind of if

403
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 2: you get it, if you get it clean, looking knock

404
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 2: at it, you know, you know what I mean. So

405
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:10,359
Speaker 2: and yeah, he knew, he knew Michael had it in

406
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Speaker 2: his veins. And yeah, that was the beginning. We called

407
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 2: him Mike, Mike Jordan.

408
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 5: Kenny said he had no handle when he came to

409
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:20,160
Speaker 5: when he first got there.

410
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:25,440
Speaker 2: No handles, No, not well, Kenny had him. Uh. After

411
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,920
Speaker 2: I left, Kenny still mad at me because I recruited Kenny.

412
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:30,400
Speaker 2: He wanted to play with me and I left after

413
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,639
Speaker 2: my junior year. He and Brad Dougherty. But yeah, he

414
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,880
Speaker 2: he didn't have a lot of fundamentals when he came.

415
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,120
Speaker 2: I think he was a better baseball player coming out

416
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 2: of high school. And you know, you've heard the story

417
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 2: of him getting cut from his high school team once,

418
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 2: so he had a lot to work on. He had

419
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:52,399
Speaker 2: raw talent though, raw talent, but when he got the

420
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 2: fundamentals down after his freshman year and he worked at

421
00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 2: it because we had drill after drills after drills. Whatever

422
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 2: his weakness was, he was willing to work on it.

423
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 2: And so I can't remember him having uh I mean,

424
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 2: back then we ran four corners. There wasn't a twenty

425
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 2: four second shot clock his freshman year, so he was

426
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 2: okay in that, but I don't remember him ever having

427
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,880
Speaker 2: the ball handling skills that our guard has.

428
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:25,440
Speaker 5: To possess you n C U n C summer runs.

429
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, how was that? Lawrence Taylor played and some of

430
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 2: those football players and Wool and Jim.

431
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 5: Lawrence Talor was nice.

432
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, well Lorene Taylor was a beast. You get the rebound,

433
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 2: you just move out of the way. Yeah, he was coming.

434
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 2: He was coming, but yeah, to pick up games because

435
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 2: a lot of guys from Duke came over. That's seven

436
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 2: miles apart. We oh yeah, yeah, and willand Jim. But

437
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 2: they were like they were like iconic games. You know,

438
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 2: you guys probably faded some of the you know games

439
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 2: over you la, you know, you don't want to You

440
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 2: don't want to lose. So yeah, there was two courts

441
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 2: you always had. But when LT came he was really

442
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 2: good player. But yeah, he was a beast.

443
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 5: Do you have any stories of anybody just dominating those run.

444
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,919
Speaker 2: I would, you guys trying to remember il would, but

445
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 2: I would play. He was from Macon, Georgia, and in

446
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty one when we lost Sane Anna, we played

447
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 2: Virginia in the semi and he scored thirty seven points.

448
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 2: The brother could shoot man when he got hirt. He

449
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 2: was like Ray Allen or Dale Ellis. Of course, you know,

450
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 2: I only had MJ for about four months, but he

451
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 2: dominated willing like the dunks that he threw down in there.

452
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,119
Speaker 2: A point guard. A lot of people don't remember Jimmy Black.

453
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 2: He was from New York. He was our senior point guard.

454
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 2: He was we called at the empty gym theory. You know,

455
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 2: he topped forty five on you in a pickup game game.

456
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 2: Uh and Sam and Sam Perkins, you know Sam Perkins

457
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 2: was Sam Perkins was a beast, a big smooth man.

458
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 2: He was roomy. For a year. We had guys like that,

459
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 2: you know, uh the back you know, Uh, well, guys

460
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 2: like Gene Banks, you know, Vince Taylor, guys like that

461
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 2: would come on from but l t was, he was

462
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 2: the guy Shirch and Skin, Schirch and Skin, Seirch and Skin.

463
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,640
Speaker 6: Is there a better big three in cottage history than

464
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 6: Jordan's Perkins and Worthy?

465
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 2: Uh? There there there they would be mentioned or honorable

466
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 2: mention because when you think about some of the some

467
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:50,919
Speaker 2: of the the trios that John Wooden had, you know,

468
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:58,479
Speaker 2: Duke pass of some Kentucky. But you know, Sam was

469
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 2: uh a captain of the eighty four one of the

470
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 2: captains of the eighty four Olympic team, and Michael and

471
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,640
Speaker 2: you know when you think of Power Forward as the center,

472
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:12,479
Speaker 2: you don't you know, you don't mention Sam that much.

473
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 2: You think of Tim Duncan, Carmelone. You think, but I

474
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,719
Speaker 2: would put my boy, and I'm I guess I'm being

475
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 2: a little bit biased, but based on his performance and

476
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 2: what he could do, I would say, we would we

477
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 2: we could, We could play with anybody, no question. You

478
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 2: know Kareem without you know back in the day with

479
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 2: Lucius Allen and some of those guys, they were but

480
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 2: Big Sam could go inside and out and he had

481
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 2: to play Ralf Samson and Sam four a lot. Sam.

482
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 2: You know he played against Sam Bouie. He held his

483
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 2: own and then of course you know m J so, yeah,

484
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 2: i'd be I'd be will him to me too, An

485
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 2: put a little money on that.

486
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 3: Uh, you leave after your junior year. Lakers win a

487
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,360
Speaker 3: championship in eighty two and get a first pick due

488
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 3: to a Calves traded me there a few years ago,

489
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 3: before any any good pre draft stories. The top three

490
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 3: in that draft for yourself, Dominique Wilkers, and Terry Cummings.

491
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:14,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. Man, it was all depending on what Ralph Samson

492
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 2: was going to do. If Ralph Samson had come out,

493
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 2: that mean Rap would have gone first, Dominique probably would

494
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,959
Speaker 2: have gone second. Terry Cummins was a beast, and then

495
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 2: I would have I don't know where I would have landed,

496
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 2: maybe maybe even lower. So I would have stayed. But

497
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 2: I knew Jerry West if Raft didn't come, I knew

498
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 2: he was interested in me because the Lakers had won

499
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 2: two out of three championships already. They had Jamal Wilkes,

500
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 2: Pod McAdoo, you know, Kareem Magic, Norm Nixon. They didn't

501
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 2: need a human highlighte man, what they needed was somebody

502
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 2: was going to come in and you know, maybe not start,

503
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 2: which was unusual for number one a draft pick, and

504
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 2: so they needed you know, I guess they were looking

505
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 2: for someone disciplined. Dean's boys were known for that. So

506
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 2: when Ralph stayed, I knew I would be the number

507
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 2: one pick based on some conversations that I've had with

508
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 2: and so yeah, I man, that was that was that

509
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 2: was That was awesome.

510
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 6: Uh.

511
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 2: But I remember being kind of not arrogant. I was

512
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 2: kind of full of myself because I thought I was

513
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 2: pretty good. So I walked into training camp and I'm

514
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 2: looking around. You know, it's Kareem Magic, you know, as

515
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 2: Jamal wilk was still still high because I was looking

516
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 2: for a spot. You know, I'm like, fuck this, I'm

517
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 2: starting this year Norm Nixon, you know. Sudden at the

518
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 2: corner of mine, see Kurt Ramis come in. I had

519
00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 2: on these coke bottled glasses tape in the middle. He

520
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 2: had all these apparatuses on his ship. He smelled like

521
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 2: bend gay shitt. He ruther all this. He had this

522
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 2: cream called four or five four back in the day.

523
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 2: It's like horse on me. Shit. He had all that shit.

524
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 2: I was faster. I was quick. So we started practice.

525
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 2: Now I think power forward in college. Kirk was a

526
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 2: power forward in the NBA. We started practice and within

527
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 2: twenty minutes he beat the living shit out of me.

528
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 2: He let me know what a real what the NBA

529
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 2: power forward was. And I wasn't ready for that. I

530
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 2: didn't really have a jumper. I was known for quick, inside, smooth,

531
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 2: so but and that was his territory. I had to

532
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 2: operate down and there where he lived. And when you

533
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 2: got down in there, he was like, Okay, he's the

534
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 2: reason I ain't got a jump shot.

535
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 5: Really yeah.

536
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 2: I couldn't handle it, and I couldn't handle other power forwards.

537
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 2: It was different. That's why power forwards and college used

538
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 2: to go down there. You know, you go down and

539
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 2: so it was tough then with Kurt McHale and Lonnie

540
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 2: Shelton and any car I remember a lot of old heads.

541
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 2: You know, they didn't mess around. And so I had

542
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 2: to go sit down for a second. And you know,

543
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 2: I started looking at Jamal and I'm saying, all right, Jamal,

544
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 2: you got you got an ex on your back. But

545
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 2: that's a story I had. And then you know, man,

546
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,719
Speaker 2: it was shiitball crazy in the eighties. Man, it was like,

547
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 2: you know, it was just crazy. You know, the hotels,

548
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 2: the lifestyle. I'm glad, I'm really glad. It wasn't like

549
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 2: a social media wow going on. It was just crazy,

550
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 2: you know, it was you know, it was uh, it

551
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 2: was just crazy and and it was it was it

552
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 2: was fun, but it was dangerous and it was uh,

553
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,959
Speaker 2: it was just free for all. Talk about the fandom.

554
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 3: I mean, you're coming from North Carolina. You're in Hollywood now,

555
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 3: you know, you're coming on one of the best teams.

556
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 3: You know, arguably the greatest players of all time. You know,

557
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 3: this Showtime team is not only known for being great

558
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 3: on the court, but being great off the court as well. Yeah,

559
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 3: so you were coming into a lot of different moving parts.

560
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 2: Well, for a country boy like me who only had

561
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 2: two girlfriends, it forced me to get married because I

562
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 2: was out here for a couple of years alone and

563
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 2: it was it was a death wish I couldn't have one. Yeah.

564
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 2: And you know, on a serious note, you know, if

565
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 2: you if if you're not absolutely sure who you are,

566
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 2: and it should be a process that you go through.

567
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 2: You should not be in a seriously committed relationship or

568
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 2: get married. It's okay to have a committed relationship. I

569
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 2: take that back, but marriage is tough. You know. I

570
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 2: went through my entire twenties internalizing, and you know, I

571
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 2: didn't want to. I didn't really want to. I was,

572
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 2: you know, brought up in the church. My mom, my

573
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 2: dad was a minister, and so I didn't want to

574
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 2: go to the strip clubs. You know, I was trying

575
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 2: to be loyal to my wife. But all the you know,

576
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 2: the uncertainty and all the internalization, you know, caused me

577
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 2: to like start to use escort service because I wanted

578
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 2: I wanted some sex, and I wanted to be told

579
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 2: I was handsome. And there was a lot of things

580
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 2: that you that you that you exploring your own mind.

581
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 2: You make up all these excuses for you for yourself.

582
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 2: You know, a lot of guys turn to drugs. So yeah,

583
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 2: it's it's it's the athlete. You know on one side

584
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 2: that you see you know who you who, who's who's

585
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 2: a badass and he's you know, in public and he's

586
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 2: dunking that. But then when you're sitting in a hotel

587
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:08,879
Speaker 2: room by yourself, and then your real shit comes. So

588
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 2: you got that winning formula over here that works for you,

589
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,399
Speaker 2: and it keeps you alivee you know, it keeps you going,

590
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 2: It gets you work, it gets your jobs, it makes

591
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 2: people like you. You you're surviving with the winning formula.

592
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 2: But then when you get back over here, you realize

593
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 2: that you hate that over there, and so then you

594
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 2: start dealing with that and and so then it comes

595
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 2: out some kind of way. So yeah, I think you

596
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,839
Speaker 2: really have to have good mentor somebody that you can

597
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 2: listen to, because because you know, when you when you

598
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 2: become twenty twenty one and you run into all this

599
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 2: fame and fortune and money and craziness. Like my best

600
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 2: friend was a doctor or is a doctor, and so

601
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 2: what he was doing at twenty was when he got

602
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 2: out of college twenty one, he's finding a roommate, you know,

603
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 2: to live in an apartment with, you know, find them

604
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 2: a nice used toyota, you know, to kind of and

605
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 2: then it took him till he was thirties until he

606
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 2: got any money. And then he had a bunch of

607
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 2: money to pay back. But he had a real stage

608
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 2: of life. You know, people have real stage. They have

609
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 2: to go out and get a real job and live

610
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 2: a real they're not famous, so you really got to

611
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:36,879
Speaker 2: check yourself. Man, when you're an athlete, you know, most

612
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,399
Speaker 2: of the time, I'm gonna say most of the time.

613
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:43,359
Speaker 2: Some of the time the women that we do get

614
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 2: are not for the real the real deal. They you know,

615
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 2: because they're they're looking for popularity too, they're looking so

616
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 2: sometimes it's just, uh, it's just something you got to

617
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,319
Speaker 2: check yourself with. Man. I'm I'm writing a book. I'm

618
00:35:58,320 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 2: not promoting it yet, but I'm going to write a book.

619
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 2: I'm gonna talk about not so much the exs and

620
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 2: o's in my career, but you know, the mental state

621
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 2: that we go through. And there's no excuses, but it is.

622
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,359
Speaker 2: It is a hard barrier unless you've been through it. Yeah,

623
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,839
Speaker 2: it's hard for people to grasp it. Yes, like you

624
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 2: can have whatever you want. What are you complaining about?

625
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 2: It's deeper than that. It's deeper than that. And you know,

626
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 2: I think the more we talk about it, the more

627
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 2: we explain it, people would be like, oh, yeah.

628
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 5: I met a lot of women that was good. That

629
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:33,319
Speaker 5: was good for me, I mean good to me, but

630
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 5: it wasn't good for me.

631
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, but we live and learn.

632
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, what would you guys popularity like back then though,

633
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 3: from city to city. I mean, you guys are magic.

634
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 3: Kareem yourself, you made a name for yourself very quick

635
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:47,839
Speaker 3: in the league. But what was the fandom like? Because

636
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 3: it is obviously pre social media. You'll get a glance

637
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 3: of you on TV and maybe in the paper, but

638
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:53,879
Speaker 3: that's the only real way unless they see you, guys

639
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 3: in person.

640
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 2: It was it was crazy because you couldn't get a ticket.

641
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 2: You showed up at the hotel. You knew, you know

642
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,720
Speaker 2: what hotel. It was easy to find out what hotel

643
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 2: were staying in. And back then, you know, we were

644
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 2: hit the clubs. You know, guys were going to night club.

645
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 2: So it was magic. I mean we had one player

646
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 2: that was, you know, very popular. Kareem was very quiet.

647
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 2: I was I was more toard Kareem pretty much. But

648
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 2: you know I had my two's a fuse. You know,

649
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 2: we might go out and enjoy, enjoy the popularity and

650
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 2: hang with the guys. We went to the movies a lot.

651
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 2: We always was like a magnet, you know, wherever you

652
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 2: see four or five players. But back then, all the

653
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:41,360
Speaker 2: teams like you know, Troy Boston, you get the airport

654
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 2: running and then when you get to that hotel, man,

655
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 2: they that's where it all was. And the lobbies. A

656
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 2: lot of people got rooms in the same hotel you

657
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 2: stayed in, and it was you know, it was there

658
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 2: was there was some you know, experts in there, there

659
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 2: was some con artists in there. It was everything dangerous

660
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 2: and fun at the same time. You know, the NBA,

661
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 2: you know, they knew all the you know, they knew

662
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 2: as you guys know, they know all the tickets are

663
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 2: and a lot of times, you know, like one team

664
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 2: would come in and give their tickets to whomever, and

665
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,399
Speaker 2: so you know, the next team would come in maybe

666
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 2: a couple of nights later, and so that section is

667
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 2: the same for the visiting team. Sometimes it'd be the

668
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 2: same faces, you know what I mean, same people and

669
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:35,399
Speaker 2: so yeah, yeah, so the NBA, you know, they start

670
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 2: investigating that kind of stuff. But you have to be what.

671
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 3: Was it like when you get into the league. I mean,

672
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 3: cigarettes in the locker room, commercial flights, Yeah, it was.

673
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 3: It was too black, it was drug filled. I mean,

674
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 3: the league obviously came a long way, you know, and

675
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 3: you were part of the movement as a transition from

676
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 3: something that wasn't very marketable to being a very marketable sport.

677
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just wanted to play in the NBA. I

678
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 2: had no idea in eighty two that the image was

679
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 2: still lacking. You know, a lot of cocaine, you know,

680
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:17,719
Speaker 2: from the seventies, from the ABA merging up into the seventies.

681
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 2: They had no drug policy, It had no TV contract.

682
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:22,439
Speaker 2: A lot of teams you couldn't even you didn't even

683
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 2: know where they were playing. There was a lot of

684
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 2: you know, talk about you know, too many black players.

685
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 2: There's an article about the New York you know, Knickerbockers.

686
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 2: You can you can pick up it's it's in Google.

687
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:38,399
Speaker 2: You can find out what they used to call them.

688
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:46,280
Speaker 2: So O'Brien only had him for one year before Commissioner

689
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 2: Stern came in and to commission Stearn's credit. You know,

690
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 2: he had a vision and the vision was to clean

691
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 2: up the league, which thank god, everyone needed that, to

692
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 2: have a drug policy where guys could you know, reconcile

693
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 2: with themselves. Also, television was big. He started to create television.

694
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 2: He had a rivalry with Boston and the Lakers with

695
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 2: Magic and Bird. He had that rivalry, you know. So

696
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:18,839
Speaker 2: the drug policy cleaned a lot of stuff up. You know,

697
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:24,279
Speaker 2: teams started to organize better, you know, as far as

698
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:31,879
Speaker 2: getting television rights, and doctor Buss was very innovative as

699
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,799
Speaker 2: far as helping them with television contracts. And he was

700
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 2: the first one to get signature on an arena. I

701
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 2: think it was fifty million. He got the Great Western

702
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:44,800
Speaker 2: for him back in the eighties, and I think Crypto

703
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:47,799
Speaker 2: was seven hundred million. To see how it's evolved, So

704
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:53,719
Speaker 2: they started to you know, employ international players a little

705
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 2: bit more, not as much as they are now, but

706
00:40:56,440 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 2: the game became more global and it cleaned itself up. Uh.

707
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 2: And then the Boston Laker rivalries in the eighties really

708
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 2: helped sustain that. But not only that, man, you had

709
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 2: you know, your Dallas Mavericks. You you had Utah with Malone.

710
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,839
Speaker 2: You had you know, artist Gilmore and you know Ice

711
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 2: Gerlin and San Antonio, Philadelphia with Doc and you know

712
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 2: Mo Cheeks and those guys, and you had Milwaukee with

713
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 2: Mincrief and so the talent was was was good, the

714
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 2: parody was good. It was just unfortunate. Well it's fortunate

715
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 2: for us that you know, it was always the Lakers

716
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 2: and the Celtics until Philly won a couple early in

717
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 2: Detroit came. But yeah, it was it was. It was

718
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,760
Speaker 2: poor in the early eighties. You know, we flew around

719
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:52,839
Speaker 2: on commercial you know, a lot of guys don't even

720
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 2: know where Eastern Caroline is. You know, diet was you know,

721
00:41:56,719 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 2: we had one trainer that did everything. We practiced at

722
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 2: Loyola Mariama, but sometimes we wake up and we'd have

723
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 2: to practice at the Inglewood. Why. It was just it

724
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:09,800
Speaker 2: was just crazy. So that's where that started.

725
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 6: That's why when we used to come play the Lakers,

726
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 6: we used to practice that long and my long.

727
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, definite practice. The practiced at Loyola Mariamo. And uh,

728
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 2: you know sometimes we you know, the weather would be

729
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 2: bad and we'd have a flight delay. You know, back

730
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:27,319
Speaker 2: to back games back then you had you had to

731
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 2: catch the first possible fight out the next morning in

732
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 2: order to get to the city. We had a Atlanta,

733
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 2: we had an ice storm, and we didn't get to

734
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:40,399
Speaker 2: Indiana till like five point thirty or seven seven o'clock game.

735
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 2: So it was a lot of a lot of stuff

736
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 2: like that, you know, a lot of a lot of

737
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 2: hot dogs with relish and beer at eight o'clock in

738
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 2: the morning. You know, you know, no diet, but it was,

739
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 2: it was, it was, it was. It was great. Yeah,

740
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:55,360
Speaker 2: it was awesome.

741
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 3: You really spoken kind of being bullied when you first

742
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:00,800
Speaker 3: got to the Lakers to take you to kind of

743
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 3: find your footing and start earning your respect amongst that team.

744
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 2: You know, it took about half a season. You know.

745
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 2: I started to really jail around March, and I was

746
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,799
Speaker 2: I was playing you know, I don't know, anywhere from

747
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:24,400
Speaker 2: eighteen to twenty minutes, average about thirteen points, and started

748
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 2: to jail with magic as far as running the lane

749
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:36,760
Speaker 2: was concerned. So but that was also after about forty

750
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 2: games because as you guys know, you know, you get

751
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 2: to about thirty two games, thirty five the most you've

752
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 2: ever played in college, and your body's like, wait, wait

753
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 2: a minute, what the hell are you doing a little

754
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 2: You got fifty more to play. So I did hit

755
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 2: that wall. But once I got the second win and

756
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 2: got the knowledge and knew how to travel, knew how

757
00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 2: to rest, I was ready around April April, in the March. Unfortunately,

758
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 2: I broke my leg and missed the playoffs that Yeah,

759
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,839
Speaker 2: but it took it took me about about five six months.

760
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 3: What was the dynamic like between Magic and Kareem. I

761
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 3: mean you hear stuff. You know obviously you were there.

762
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 3: What was their dynamic?

763
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 2: Like, Man, Kareem's one of the misunderstood people and athletes

764
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 2: that I know now. He's taken responsibility for his personality

765
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 2: and how he was somewhat of an introvert and not

766
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 2: always you know, compatible with what he needed to do

767
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 2: to be nice to people all the time. But he

768
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 2: understood the magic came that Magic had the personality and

769
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 2: the game to lead. You know, Kareem was not a

770
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 2: verbal guy. He led by example, so he allowed you know,

771
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 2: he let Magic take over. And from what I saw

772
00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:00,760
Speaker 2: my nineteen years together, they had a great relationship. Kareem

773
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 2: was just mellow. He's wanted to play and do his job.

774
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 2: I don't think there was ever any beef at all

775
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 2: from what I saw. If it was, they took it upstairs.

776
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:11,359
Speaker 2: But that was the thing with our team. We you know,

777
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,880
Speaker 2: we didn't have you know, we we knew how to

778
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 2: monitor each other. Most guys knew their roles. You know,

779
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 2: when you got Kareem Jamal coming from John Wooden, you know,

780
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 2: you got myself, Mitch cup Chack from Dean Smith, You've

781
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 2: got guys coming from good programs. Judd, Heachcoh Magic from

782
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:41,279
Speaker 2: Michigan State. Pat Rowley played for a play for Adolph Rupp,

783
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 2: which was a weird experience, you know, the race simms

784
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 2: that was going on with that team. So we had

785
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:51,800
Speaker 2: guys that knew how to get over themselves and also

786
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:54,399
Speaker 2: knew how to get out of trouble when we got

787
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 2: in trouble. So it was because we wanted to win.

788
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 3: How good was Magic Johnson during his time cut short

789
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,360
Speaker 3: for a few different few different times, but just the

790
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:06,800
Speaker 3: body of work when he was out there playing his desk.

791
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, still to this day, if I had to pick

792
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 2: one player, like if I got to pick five and

793
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 2: they said we're gonna pick first, a yeah, because his

794
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 2: his his ability to make you win, not to will

795
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:29,359
Speaker 2: will he gonna wiel some wins, but this makes you

796
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 2: so much better. And his his fight and his face

797
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:39,280
Speaker 2: and his cheering you on doing the game and doing practice.

798
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 2: Then his performance at six ' nine when he was humming, yeah,

799
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:48,399
Speaker 2: he's gonna find a way to win. He's gonna find

800
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 2: a way to win. So he was amazing man, Like

801
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:55,839
Speaker 2: I remember trying to impress him first couple of weeks

802
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 2: of practice. I'm gonna show him how fast I can

803
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 2: hit the corner, hit the lane so you know, half court,

804
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 2: and then I make my angle in and fall. You know,

805
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:10,440
Speaker 2: I'm not ready for it. You know, he said you

806
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 2: better be looking sun, you know, so he could get

807
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 2: it to you from anywhere on the basketball court. And

808
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 2: when he you know, he could take a snapshot from

809
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:24,799
Speaker 2: eighty feet away and calculate your steps without looking like

810
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:27,800
Speaker 2: he could get it and to take a snapshot and

811
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:31,240
Speaker 2: then he's just starting then. Uh. And then his height

812
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 2: really made it difficult to the fan. Like when Magic retired.

813
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 2: I thought I was pretty good until Magic retired and

814
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 2: then we got todeal three that then, you know, and

815
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 2: day three couldn't see nothing over the top. So I was,

816
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:49,919
Speaker 2: I was missing opportunities. I was like, why it open,

817
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 2: I'll be like Magic. So yeah, he was, he was,

818
00:47:54,920 --> 00:48:00,240
Speaker 2: he was. He was an amazing player, man, And uh yeah,

819
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:03,759
Speaker 2: ye speak to how great he was. His body of work,

820
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 2: including college both academically and you know, three championships at

821
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:21,320
Speaker 2: UCLA when freshmen couldn't play varsity you're forced to play JV.

822
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 2: And I know Matt knows the story There was an

823
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 2: interest squad game against the JV team in John Wooden's

824
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy or one of his national championship teams, and

825
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:41,799
Speaker 2: Kareem the JV team beat them. Couldn't come out of

826
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 2: high school. Now I had Kareem been able to come

827
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 2: out of high school, the record may not ever be broken.

828
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 2: But poetry in motion was the skyhook. I was on

829
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:59,360
Speaker 2: the other side of the block, and I was amazed.

830
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:02,799
Speaker 2: Sometimes I can myself spectating and not going for the

831
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 2: offensive rebound because it was so special. It was more

832
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 2: than just rolling there throwing the hook. It was it

833
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 2: was the eyes, it was the pump fake, and it

834
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:16,919
Speaker 2: was like a triple jumping track. It was a lot

835
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 2: to it. And by the time he got into it,

836
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 2: if you could get through this left without getting your

837
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 2: face reconstructed, you know, because it was up there. I mean,

838
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 2: you know he I think he made one three so career.

839
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 2: So he was he went through many decades. You know.

840
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:39,319
Speaker 2: I saw him as a kid playing against the west

841
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 2: Son Sale and Nate Thurman, and then he went through

842
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:44,719
Speaker 2: the next decade. Then he went through you know, Keem

843
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 2: Olaijuan and Patrick Ewing. Then he kept doing it. Until

844
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 2: around eighty eight eighty seven. But yeah, Kareem was his

845
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 2: whole body at work and smart as a whip. I

846
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 2: was short after my junior year, about fifteen hours so

847
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 2: I was taking a history course, black history course, and

848
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 2: I was taking some independent courses out of USC really,

849
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:13,160
Speaker 2: and I was sitting on the bus and he saw

850
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 2: what I was studying. It was something about the dred

851
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 2: Scott Law, the Missouri compromise with some blacks. He saw it.

852
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:25,399
Speaker 2: He just starts said, yeah, eighteen ninety. He started nighting

853
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:30,399
Speaker 2: off these dates and without any notes or anything because

854
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 2: he was a history major. And I said, damn, there's

855
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 2: my tutor right there. We just had discussions and he

856
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 2: turned me on the jazz. It's just you get to

857
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 2: know him, which I'm sure you guys have talked to him.

858
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 2: You get to know him, and he's reconciled with himself.

859
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 2: He's realized his downside. But Kareem was one of my

860
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 2: best friends and his good brother.

861
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 3: Your introduction to the Forum Club.

862
00:50:56,640 --> 00:51:03,600
Speaker 2: Woo mano man, my rookie year wall. First time I

863
00:51:03,719 --> 00:51:08,359
Speaker 2: went in the Farm Club and I saw Ola Ray.

864
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 2: If you guys remember who, Old Ray was the first

865
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:16,360
Speaker 2: black woman and Playboy, and I think she was also

866
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:21,839
Speaker 2: in Michael Jackson's Thriller. But I saw her and lost

867
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:29,280
Speaker 2: my mind. It was just so beautiful in there. Beautiful people,

868
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:33,880
Speaker 2: beautiful women, and it was like Doctor Buss's you know,

869
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:36,279
Speaker 2: Playboy match. He had his corner over there, and it

870
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:38,879
Speaker 2: was always, you know, you always wanted to see what

871
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 2: was going on in there. But I had a couple

872
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 2: of friends of mine that worked for the Atlanta but

873
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 2: Delta in Atlanta, and they would always catch a plane.

874
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 2: I get them tickets to the game. They would catch

875
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:52,759
Speaker 2: a plane with the three hour difference, they getting it

876
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:55,920
Speaker 2: right around game time, and I'd be looking for me,

877
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 2: you know, because I knew where their seats were. They

878
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:01,320
Speaker 2: wouldn't touch their seats. They'd go to the Farm Club

879
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 2: at the bar and get there and sit until halftime,

880
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:09,160
Speaker 2: and they would just go crazy because the stars were

881
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:11,239
Speaker 2: they were in there and a lot of a lot

882
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 2: of beautiful people. And then they would stay there till

883
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:17,359
Speaker 2: around eleven thirty twelve, and back then you would get

884
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:19,440
Speaker 2: a red eye back at like one am, and they

885
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 2: catch the red eye back in Atlanta. Quick business trip.

886
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 2: But yeah, the Farm Club was like you didn't have

887
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:30,399
Speaker 2: to leave the farm, you know, because it was right

888
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 2: there till closing time. It was it was nice.

889
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:39,800
Speaker 5: We played. We played their preseason game with Don Nelson.

890
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 6: Remember he said when we was walking, He's like, if

891
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:45,879
Speaker 6: y'all could be a fly on the wall back when

892
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 6: I was playing and my.

893
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:50,799
Speaker 2: Dad until Nelson he was talking about. It's funny, man.

894
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 2: I was in Maui a couple of years ago and

895
00:52:56,680 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 2: I was in the pro shop and I saw this

896
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 2: guy with long white hair, Donnie fucking bare feet, you know, hippie. Yeah,

897
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:15,240
Speaker 2: because he was my last All Star coach in nineteen

898
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 2: ninety two. I was like, I was a coach. I

899
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 2: was like, man, you need to give me some of

900
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 2: that whatever you got man.

901
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 3: Nelly good?

902
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:27,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, that it was good. I think Willie Nelson

903
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:29,319
Speaker 2: was over there with you went on the golf cour

904
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:32,479
Speaker 2: That's the guy they be playing poker. Yeah, but coach

905
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 2: Nelson's you know, I never got to play for him,

906
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 2: but I always always thought it was pretty cool.

907
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:42,839
Speaker 6: Speak on the brilliant mind and how great Pat Rowley is.

908
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, pat Rally man, uh, you know from conversations with him,

909
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:56,000
Speaker 2: and you know you talk about cycles, his you know,

910
00:53:56,160 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 2: relationship with his dad was tired, and then he used

911
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:09,839
Speaker 2: that to energize himself, you know, going to Kentucky, being

912
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:14,440
Speaker 2: drafted by the Dallas Cowboys out of college as well. Uh,

913
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:20,000
Speaker 2: he was always felt like, you know, he had to

914
00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 2: do more and be more, and so his preparation was

915
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 2: second to none, like his his his his work ethic

916
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:36,400
Speaker 2: as a coach was so prepared and it was so analytical.

917
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:41,840
Speaker 2: Uh that you you were ready, and he would push

918
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 2: you to the point where you want to fight him,

919
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:49,520
Speaker 2: and then the truth would be like right there too,

920
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 2: and you have to deal with that. He knew personalities,

921
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:57,880
Speaker 2: like he knew how to push you like, you know, Byron,

922
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 2: I don't know, Well, you haven't hit anything worthy, You're worthless.

923
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:03,759
Speaker 2: You know. He knew what to say, you know, to

924
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:05,200
Speaker 2: certain people. Magic.

925
00:55:05,239 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 5: I don't know.

926
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:09,320
Speaker 2: There's nothing mystical about you. I don't know what's going on, Kareem.

927
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:13,360
Speaker 2: What would you like to do? You know? So he

928
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:18,480
Speaker 2: knew how to push people, and but preparation and practice

929
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:24,240
Speaker 2: and he didn't delay his There wasn't any like delaying

930
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:27,600
Speaker 2: his you know, communication with it was it was going on.

931
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:29,440
Speaker 5: Uh.

932
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:31,560
Speaker 6: So, yeah, he was he was tough. He was he

933
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:34,640
Speaker 6: was a tough coach and we won. We want with

934
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:39,239
Speaker 6: your numbers always went up in the playoffs. That's how

935
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 6: you got big game James.

936
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 2: I think so to Hern realized, you know, in the

937
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:46,839
Speaker 2: regular season, as you guys know, when you like, I

938
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:54,439
Speaker 2: remember playing Larry Bird on a Tuesday night, got over

939
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 2: to Philly, I'm sorry, got over to New York Wednesday night.

940
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:05,160
Speaker 2: Only they have Banard King waiting for you. You know

941
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 2: I'd already had Larry back to back. Yeah, didn't have

942
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:16,960
Speaker 2: Banara King. Take a night off, and then following night

943
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:19,360
Speaker 2: you go to Philly. You got Doc and Bobby Jones.

944
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:24,440
Speaker 2: So regular season you hop around. You know, it's not

945
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:30,480
Speaker 2: the same. Playoffs. You got one team for seven games

946
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:35,359
Speaker 2: and you have less travel, so you get to lock in.

947
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 2: Whoever locks in the most is going to be the one.

948
00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:41,319
Speaker 2: So if you lock in too, like I knew, I

949
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:44,479
Speaker 2: had to play Clyde Drexler. I knew because we didn't

950
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:47,759
Speaker 2: want Magic playing point guards. They wear them down. You know,

951
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:51,439
Speaker 2: we needed him, So I lock in video after video,

952
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:55,799
Speaker 2: well Beta Max back then DHR. But you lock in Man,

953
00:56:56,040 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 2: and you know that's all you got. Jrome Cursey, you

954
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 2: know who you got. You just lock in and you're ready.

955
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:06,200
Speaker 2: You know, there's some tendencies. Then you just work on

956
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:10,200
Speaker 2: your game, man, and you know, ship you should. Everybody's

957
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:14,440
Speaker 2: numbers should go up. Yeah. Play you get the playing.

958
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:16,439
Speaker 6: Time, you made the cost and play in eighty four

959
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:20,240
Speaker 6: finals because the self bad pass left the self supports

960
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:21,479
Speaker 6: and overtime and winning the game.

961
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:23,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, take us back at that.

962
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:26,440
Speaker 2: Moment as you as you talk about it, I feel

963
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:30,720
Speaker 2: it like it never goes away. It was away.

964
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:31,000
Speaker 4: Man.

965
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:34,560
Speaker 2: That was my fourth championship. So when they say how

966
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:37,360
Speaker 2: Mania got, it's it's cool to say three, but I

967
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 2: mean that was it.

968
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:39,760
Speaker 5: It was on the doorstep.

969
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:43,880
Speaker 2: I had injured myself there before. I had no playoff experience,

970
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:49,200
Speaker 2: and you know, I had played very well up until

971
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:52,200
Speaker 2: that series. I've been to Boston, playing in the old

972
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:56,440
Speaker 2: Boston Garden. You know. Uh, I got a little rattle

973
00:57:57,120 --> 00:58:01,400
Speaker 2: because we had already gone in and one game one,

974
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 2: we'd already achieved. What we needed to do was split.

975
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:08,720
Speaker 2: But man, we had that. We had that game, and

976
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:12,360
Speaker 2: so we got the ball out of bounds. Magic wanted

977
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 2: to get it in really quick, like throw it in

978
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:18,120
Speaker 2: and get so it was so so I was like,

979
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 2: ROUSE didn't know what to call a timeout. Do we

980
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:24,120
Speaker 2: want to time out? So Magic got it in and

981
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 2: so we're in the back court. So I'm panicking a

982
00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:29,920
Speaker 2: little bit because you know they're coming there doubling. I

983
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:32,480
Speaker 2: need to get rid of it. So I see Byron

984
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:37,320
Speaker 2: so boom. Now soon as I let it go my

985
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:43,120
Speaker 2: peripheral vision, I see this green jersey coming and it's

986
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:46,200
Speaker 2: it slows down in your mind. It still slows down.

987
00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:48,680
Speaker 2: I see it. I was like, oh shit, and he

988
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:51,360
Speaker 2: gets it, okay, but now he's got to come to me.

989
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:54,440
Speaker 2: So I got to go to angle and I go

990
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:56,640
Speaker 2: up and I sometime I wake up in the middle

991
00:58:56,640 --> 00:59:00,600
Speaker 2: of that. I because I can still feel I can

992
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:02,720
Speaker 2: still feel, you know, the wind and the ball go

993
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:08,240
Speaker 2: right over two hits. Two retire a game. But you

994
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:11,080
Speaker 2: didn't foul it. I didn't found it. You didn't I

995
00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:13,560
Speaker 2: tried to go for the block. I was still I

996
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:15,840
Speaker 2: was still, you know, trying to feel I could get

997
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:18,800
Speaker 2: to it. But now, if i'd had a chance to

998
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:20,560
Speaker 2: get it, maybe I should have. But the way they

999
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:24,920
Speaker 2: were following us, but I had no experience. Uh. I

1000
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:27,280
Speaker 2: was kind of panicking in the you know, in the

1001
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:30,480
Speaker 2: last minute, in the last thirty seconds, there and that's

1002
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:33,080
Speaker 2: the one that that's the one that that's the one

1003
00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:35,680
Speaker 2: that that I still think about to this day, just

1004
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:38,040
Speaker 2: like it got away.

1005
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 3: Speak to the physicality of the game back then, because

1006
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:45,600
Speaker 3: now you touch someone and it's up. But you guys

1007
00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:48,000
Speaker 3: really used to be able to It was men playing

1008
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:48,360
Speaker 3: back then.

1009
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:50,920
Speaker 6: I got a couple of highlights and you're getting off

1010
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 6: the floor.

1011
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:55,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, throwing them. Yeah. My biggest regret was getting in

1012
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:58,840
Speaker 2: Kurt Rams's way when he when he got clothes line,

1013
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:00,840
Speaker 2: because I was, you know, there was a lot of

1014
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 2: shit going on. I was like, what's going on? And

1015
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:05,120
Speaker 2: I saw something coming and I got kirted away. But

1016
01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:08,880
Speaker 2: the physicality back then was you could touch them. You

1017
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:12,360
Speaker 2: could touch the brother up. You know, like if you

1018
01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:15,160
Speaker 2: set of picking the lane somebody's coming coming on, you

1019
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 2: could you can you can literally stand them up and

1020
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:23,120
Speaker 2: uh like I remember Kurt Ramits getting clothes line. That

1021
01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:26,560
Speaker 2: was Michael. It was just two shots, crazy.

1022
01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:33,120
Speaker 3: Rights showed them back hit the ground.

1023
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:36,840
Speaker 2: That's what three or four games now might get arrested,

1024
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:40,880
Speaker 2: but but yeah, it was, it was. It was born

1025
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:43,320
Speaker 2: out of the seventies, you know, when it was you know,

1026
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:47,120
Speaker 2: it was mostly half court, not a lot of running

1027
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:51,080
Speaker 2: teams except the A B A. Doc and George Beginnings

1028
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 2: and you know Ice and those guys they ran in

1029
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:56,400
Speaker 2: the A B. A. But it was, you know, predicated

1030
01:00:56,480 --> 01:01:01,760
Speaker 2: on half court sets. The coach was always calling the plays.

1031
01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:05,240
Speaker 2: There was a lot of control, so you had specific

1032
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:07,840
Speaker 2: players you wanted to get to and so to do

1033
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:10,480
Speaker 2: that you had to set up cross pick for Carl Malone,

1034
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 2: a down pick for Dale Ellis or whoever the shoot

1035
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:16,960
Speaker 2: it was. So it was more control. Now it's just

1036
01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 2: you know, it's it's there's no play calling, it's emotion.

1037
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:22,400
Speaker 2: So you had a lot of time to slow down

1038
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:24,680
Speaker 2: and then you had a lot of champ think about

1039
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:26,920
Speaker 2: how you're going to defend that, and the way to

1040
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:28,920
Speaker 2: defend it is to slow him down with a boom

1041
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:30,560
Speaker 2: with a chance. And then there were there were some

1042
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:34,600
Speaker 2: games where there was a rule where no no freebies,

1043
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:39,160
Speaker 2: no free lay ups. We had we had take files

1044
01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:41,360
Speaker 2: you know, you want to take John Stounton used to

1045
01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:45,200
Speaker 2: set a dirty pick early for Carl Malone. He'd get

1046
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:48,120
Speaker 2: up under you and you know, get it, ahol. So

1047
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:51,520
Speaker 2: we had one rule that we could waste one early

1048
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:54,040
Speaker 2: on him, let him know take yeah, you know, you

1049
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 2: are here, he come, you know, and you try to

1050
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:57,840
Speaker 2: go for his throat, you know, try to you know,

1051
01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:00,280
Speaker 2: get one. So yeah, but yeah, it was it was

1052
01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:02,760
Speaker 2: it was physical, It was tough.

1053
01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:14,640
Speaker 6: Man Championships in eighty five, eighty seven, and nineteen eighty eight.

1054
01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:18,680
Speaker 6: You shot fifty percent in all three finals. Twenty points

1055
01:02:18,680 --> 01:02:22,919
Speaker 6: some more. Boston ninety five, I mean, exkip Boston eighty five,

1056
01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:25,240
Speaker 6: Boston eighty seven or Detroit eighty eight?

1057
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:26,800
Speaker 5: Which was your favorite championship?

1058
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:32,640
Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to say eighty five because the Lakers

1059
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 2: had never won. I guess the self. Jerry Wells, will chamblain,

1060
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:42,880
Speaker 2: all those guys, Elgum Baylor, they lost seven to Bill

1061
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:48,680
Speaker 2: Russell and Hevli Chak, Casey Jones. So and the fact

1062
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:52,720
Speaker 2: that we lost that one in eighty four, I really

1063
01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:55,520
Speaker 2: thought there was some type of leprechaun or something in Boston.

1064
01:02:55,560 --> 01:03:00,160
Speaker 2: But that one was because we not only represented ourselves,

1065
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:04,840
Speaker 2: we represented all those misery nights that the Laker fans

1066
01:03:04,920 --> 01:03:07,840
Speaker 2: had to deal with, had to you know, hear all

1067
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:12,320
Speaker 2: that trash. So I think eighty five personally eighty eight. Uh,

1068
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:14,400
Speaker 2: not only it was my personal best, but it was

1069
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:17,440
Speaker 2: a back to back year something had been done. And

1070
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:22,840
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, yeah one and only triple double. Kareem

1071
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:26,760
Speaker 2: was still with us, but he wasn't dominating like he

1072
01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:30,280
Speaker 2: was in eighty seven. Magic was MVP of the league.

1073
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:32,880
Speaker 2: You know, pat Rally had asked him to do a

1074
01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:36,320
Speaker 2: little bit more. So I just felt like, okay, young

1075
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:40,040
Speaker 2: younger Kareem wasn't dominated, So it was you know, it

1076
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:42,720
Speaker 2: was time to it was time for me to, you know,

1077
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:43,520
Speaker 2: step up.

1078
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:47,800
Speaker 5: What's your take on Boston fans where they unruly back then?

1079
01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:51,480
Speaker 2: Buncle lived in Boston the sixties. Man, it was racist

1080
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:54,960
Speaker 2: as hell. Yeah, and from what I understand, you know,

1081
01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:58,920
Speaker 2: we used to go through some some of that. You know,

1082
01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:00,720
Speaker 2: you you turned you know, we uld get to the

1083
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:05,520
Speaker 2: Copley End and and you know you actually operated to

1084
01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:08,600
Speaker 2: turn your phone on, but she never did. You know

1085
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:11,520
Speaker 2: you'd be getting calls. You have to plug your phone

1086
01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:14,160
Speaker 2: and people would say some some some crazy stuff on

1087
01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:18,320
Speaker 2: the phone. And uh, I know through baseball, like some

1088
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:21,720
Speaker 2: of the outfielders you know in Boston, it still exists.

1089
01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:24,080
Speaker 2: It was a tough place to play. They love their fans,

1090
01:04:24,160 --> 01:04:26,720
Speaker 2: they love their their their their teams. I give them

1091
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:31,040
Speaker 2: credit for that. I love playing in Boston because I

1092
01:04:31,160 --> 01:04:35,760
Speaker 2: just just love playing there because I hated Boston, hated it.

1093
01:04:36,240 --> 01:04:39,240
Speaker 2: I hated it, you know. And I'm sure all people

1094
01:04:39,240 --> 01:04:42,240
Speaker 2: aren't like that in Boston, but I had some friends

1095
01:04:42,280 --> 01:04:44,320
Speaker 2: that with the college that lived there, so sometimes I

1096
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:50,240
Speaker 2: would go into the neighborhood and so yeah, and back

1097
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:53,959
Speaker 2: then the old Boston Garden, you had a choice to either.

1098
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:57,840
Speaker 2: Usually in traffic, you know game seven thirty eight o'clock,

1099
01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:00,600
Speaker 2: you had a choice to go around in the city.

1100
01:05:01,080 --> 01:05:03,400
Speaker 2: Had to go all the way around the city forty

1101
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:07,680
Speaker 2: minutes to get all the way around to this ramp,

1102
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:09,920
Speaker 2: this wooden ramp, and you could go that way if

1103
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:13,000
Speaker 2: you wanted privacy. All do you take ten minutes and

1104
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:15,640
Speaker 2: they drop you off right with us. The subway people

1105
01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:19,320
Speaker 2: get off the bus, so you're merging with the fans.

1106
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:22,920
Speaker 2: No bodyguards, no nothing. We just and there was a

1107
01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:26,960
Speaker 2: special elevator for us right here, and then the fans

1108
01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:29,880
Speaker 2: went that way. But as you were waiting for the elevator,

1109
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:32,760
Speaker 2: they would just give it to you. I love it

1110
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:36,520
Speaker 2: because that was just my incentive. That was my incentant.

1111
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:39,440
Speaker 2: But Bob McAdoo, you know, you have me listened to

1112
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:43,080
Speaker 2: the Malcolm X takes before the game. Yeah, you'd be ready,

1113
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:47,960
Speaker 2: you'd be ready then. So yeah, but you know, Bossoon

1114
01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:51,040
Speaker 2: great town, I guess if you lived there. But I

1115
01:05:51,080 --> 01:05:54,080
Speaker 2: hated Boston. I don't. I don't care to really visit.

1116
01:05:55,440 --> 01:05:59,280
Speaker 2: I'm good. It was Larry Bird. It was damn good.

1117
01:06:00,240 --> 01:06:00,800
Speaker 2: He was good.

1118
01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:03,400
Speaker 3: H You had a quote not to cut you off

1119
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:05,720
Speaker 3: that Jordan made you look slow, Larry made you look dumb.

1120
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:10,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, man, Yeah, Jordan. Jordan was an amazing you know,

1121
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:13,760
Speaker 2: not not and both of them worked just as hard.

1122
01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:17,360
Speaker 2: But Larry didn't have the speed, couldn't jump, but a

1123
01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:22,680
Speaker 2: shoot he could work. He was a big, strong, beautiful

1124
01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:27,600
Speaker 2: pusser type player and he had a lot of skills.

1125
01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:32,520
Speaker 2: He could pass. He was ambidextrious, and you had to

1126
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:34,880
Speaker 2: you had to be like on him. You couldn't get

1127
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:36,919
Speaker 2: him any space. And when he got high, it didn't

1128
01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:40,840
Speaker 2: matter if he was on him or not. Yeah. Yeah,

1129
01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:43,960
Speaker 2: he talked ship all the time, you know. He tell

1130
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:46,960
Speaker 2: you now, I didn't get a lot of it because

1131
01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:49,280
Speaker 2: he didn't, you know, because I could give it back,

1132
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:51,800
Speaker 2: you know, he didn't. And you know I guarded him

1133
01:06:52,280 --> 01:06:54,440
Speaker 2: half the game that we have Michael Coop on him.

1134
01:06:54,440 --> 01:06:56,800
Speaker 2: But there were times when he would tell you what

1135
01:06:56,800 --> 01:06:59,520
Speaker 2: he's going to do. You know it's coming, you know

1136
01:06:59,560 --> 01:06:59,959
Speaker 2: it's coming.

1137
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:05,880
Speaker 6: What'd you think when he played that game left handed

1138
01:07:05,920 --> 01:07:07,480
Speaker 6: and had forty with his left hand.

1139
01:07:07,320 --> 01:07:10,800
Speaker 2: Well he's left handed, he right, he's a rights right hand.

1140
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:13,840
Speaker 2: I wasn't surprised. But that's who he is. And he

1141
01:07:13,880 --> 01:07:14,680
Speaker 2: predicted it.

1142
01:07:14,600 --> 01:07:16,320
Speaker 5: And said it. That's what's crazy.

1143
01:07:16,440 --> 01:07:18,520
Speaker 2: He used to come in the All Star Game three

1144
01:07:18,560 --> 01:07:22,840
Speaker 2: point contests right before he started. He come in and

1145
01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:27,160
Speaker 2: look at everybody and say, which one of you guys

1146
01:07:27,240 --> 01:07:32,000
Speaker 2: coming in second place? You know, the one of the

1147
01:07:32,040 --> 01:07:36,880
Speaker 2: worst ones, man, And this is this is Larry White,

1148
01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:41,480
Speaker 2: guy from french Linco, Indiana, you know. And I heard

1149
01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:43,880
Speaker 2: he's done this to other teams too. But we had

1150
01:07:43,920 --> 01:07:47,480
Speaker 2: a guy on our team, Mark Landsberg, I think it

1151
01:07:47,560 --> 01:07:52,240
Speaker 2: was so we market the game and he's gonna guard

1152
01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:56,560
Speaker 2: Larry and so it was a free throw. So Larry

1153
01:07:56,600 --> 01:08:02,479
Speaker 2: was down near our bench and uh, he says, man,

1154
01:08:02,920 --> 01:08:06,400
Speaker 2: that's you got that's an insult. But you guys just

1155
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:10,160
Speaker 2: dead to me. What you mean that's an insult? He says,

1156
01:08:10,440 --> 01:08:16,759
Speaker 2: you guys put a white ball on me. So that's

1157
01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:20,240
Speaker 2: that's that's who he was man he went. Then he

1158
01:08:20,280 --> 01:08:22,479
Speaker 2: went just eighties ass something and you look at up

1159
01:08:23,400 --> 01:08:26,840
Speaker 2: totally so he but he should do that. Anytime you

1160
01:08:26,920 --> 01:08:30,320
Speaker 2: put anytime that happened, what every team, he would always say,

1161
01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:35,800
Speaker 2: that's an insult. But he was. He was tough. He

1162
01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:41,679
Speaker 2: was tough, he was nasty physical. Oh yeah, I didn't

1163
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:42,640
Speaker 2: really I didn't really like it.

1164
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:47,160
Speaker 3: Late eighties. Your guys' dynasty run comes to an end.

1165
01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:51,000
Speaker 3: You get swept by the Pistons in eighty nine, did

1166
01:08:51,040 --> 01:08:53,040
Speaker 3: you guys know, did you think there was an opportunity

1167
01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:54,920
Speaker 3: to get back? Guys were getting a little bit older,

1168
01:08:55,000 --> 01:08:57,360
Speaker 3: and how good was that Detroit team?

1169
01:08:57,600 --> 01:09:00,760
Speaker 2: The Detroit team was good in eighty eight when we

1170
01:09:00,800 --> 01:09:04,519
Speaker 2: when we won, they were tough, so we knew coming back,

1171
01:09:04,520 --> 01:09:07,880
Speaker 2: and yeah we knew in eighty nine we were undefeated

1172
01:09:07,920 --> 01:09:13,040
Speaker 2: to that series. We swept everybody, Denver, Dallas, I believe,

1173
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:16,519
Speaker 2: San Antonio. Maybe I can't remember who we played, but

1174
01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:20,799
Speaker 2: we were waiting for them and we had like seven

1175
01:09:20,880 --> 01:09:25,240
Speaker 2: days off back then television control when the playoffs started

1176
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:30,720
Speaker 2: and Detruit was still playing in their finals Chicago or

1177
01:09:31,360 --> 01:09:35,120
Speaker 2: or maybe Boston. But Ralph took us to Santa Barbara

1178
01:09:35,640 --> 01:09:38,920
Speaker 2: because he didn't want us to have seven days off

1179
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:43,439
Speaker 2: in La In and so we went to Santa Barbara

1180
01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:49,360
Speaker 2: and a couple of guys got hurt, Magic got hurt.

1181
01:09:49,840 --> 01:09:55,080
Speaker 2: Byron I had an ankle injury that got worse. But

1182
01:09:55,800 --> 01:09:58,559
Speaker 2: we just weren't healthy. And even if we were detruit

1183
01:09:58,680 --> 01:10:02,040
Speaker 2: was still they were good. Yeah, they were good, and

1184
01:10:02,240 --> 01:10:06,080
Speaker 2: you know they were isaas frain his ankle in eighty eight.

1185
01:10:06,720 --> 01:10:08,719
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that they would have won, but that

1186
01:10:08,720 --> 01:10:13,600
Speaker 2: that hurt them in Game seven. But they were a defensive,

1187
01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:17,719
Speaker 2: tough team and the guy that guarded me the best

1188
01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:23,000
Speaker 2: they could slow me down was Dennis. So they were good.

1189
01:10:23,640 --> 01:10:27,200
Speaker 2: Kareem was not that much of a factor in eighty

1190
01:10:27,280 --> 01:10:32,760
Speaker 2: nine and we really hadn't made any significant changes to

1191
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:36,519
Speaker 2: our team. I think we picked up Orland Awards Tony

1192
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:41,760
Speaker 2: Campbell from Detroit, Rivers from Notre Dame, so you know,

1193
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:45,800
Speaker 2: we were injured, We didn't really have enough experience. Really

1194
01:10:47,720 --> 01:10:49,559
Speaker 2: took him bat with them, and they were just they

1195
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:50,519
Speaker 2: were just too good.

1196
01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:53,240
Speaker 3: To you spoke to someone who had, you know, did

1197
01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:55,200
Speaker 3: a fairly good job of slowing you down. Dennis Robin,

1198
01:10:55,280 --> 01:10:57,320
Speaker 3: what kind of player was he in that time?

1199
01:10:57,560 --> 01:11:02,280
Speaker 2: He was bad man Dennis was a machine Uh in Detroit,

1200
01:11:02,960 --> 01:11:05,760
Speaker 2: he was a machine man. He could guard anybody on

1201
01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:06,280
Speaker 2: the floor.

1202
01:11:07,120 --> 01:11:07,280
Speaker 3: Uh.

1203
01:11:07,320 --> 01:11:10,360
Speaker 2: He had the psychological games. He get in your head,

1204
01:11:10,920 --> 01:11:15,280
Speaker 2: like you know, before the game, you give a depth.

1205
01:11:15,960 --> 01:11:20,080
Speaker 2: He squeezed my ass a little too. It wasn't like

1206
01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:22,960
Speaker 2: what's up. It wasn't like let's go. It was I

1207
01:11:22,960 --> 01:11:32,760
Speaker 2: was so now you're thinking, you running down the court,

1208
01:11:33,640 --> 01:11:36,639
Speaker 2: you know, thinking about this motherfucker. Why he getting every

1209
01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:40,240
Speaker 2: fucking offensive rebound there is because he knew how to,

1210
01:11:40,479 --> 01:11:44,559
Speaker 2: you know, get physical and play, you know and flying

1211
01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:48,080
Speaker 2: and he was. But his footspeed matched mine. So all

1212
01:11:48,120 --> 01:11:50,800
Speaker 2: my little quick ship was so you had to be ready.

1213
01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:54,880
Speaker 2: But I was ready. I was ready. But but yeah,

1214
01:11:54,960 --> 01:11:56,000
Speaker 2: Dennis was. People.

1215
01:11:56,040 --> 01:11:59,000
Speaker 3: Do you consider that that that Bad Boys team? Was

1216
01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:05,800
Speaker 3: that a dynasty? I just I just know them for

1217
01:12:05,880 --> 01:12:07,280
Speaker 3: winning two championships.

1218
01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:11,920
Speaker 5: That's that's that's and that's not a dynasty of me.

1219
01:12:12,840 --> 01:12:19,800
Speaker 2: So you know, Golden State dynasty, Lakers, Boston, San Antonio, Chicago.

1220
01:12:21,160 --> 01:12:24,320
Speaker 2: But no, I mean they want, they want to and

1221
01:12:24,439 --> 01:12:32,439
Speaker 2: that's Uh. Isaiah Thomas is he underrated? Yeah? I'm picking

1222
01:12:32,479 --> 01:12:36,400
Speaker 2: him after Magic. Oh yeah, oh yeah, I don't don't

1223
01:12:36,400 --> 01:12:40,799
Speaker 2: don't get it. Twisted. Now, don't don't get it twisted, Isaiah.

1224
01:12:40,800 --> 01:12:44,599
Speaker 2: I'm picking him after Magic Yeah, and uh, because uh,

1225
01:12:44,840 --> 01:12:48,639
Speaker 2: this Zeke was the truth. I mean, he could give

1226
01:12:48,680 --> 01:12:51,880
Speaker 2: it to you however you wanted it. On both ends.

1227
01:12:51,960 --> 01:12:55,840
Speaker 2: He was. It was tough out of Chicago, so you know,

1228
01:12:56,080 --> 01:12:57,919
Speaker 2: I don't you know, I didn't really know it personally

1229
01:12:57,960 --> 01:13:01,519
Speaker 2: like like personality, I don't really care about that. But

1230
01:13:01,680 --> 01:13:08,599
Speaker 2: as a player, oh yeah, he's coming, no doubt. Definitely.

1231
01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:13,200
Speaker 3: The eighties really brought the game back to life. Stack

1232
01:13:13,360 --> 01:13:19,360
Speaker 3: Decade yourself, Magic Bird, Jordan, Isaiah Barkley, Elijah Want when

1233
01:13:19,360 --> 01:13:21,040
Speaker 3: you look back on that, where do you kind of

1234
01:13:21,120 --> 01:13:22,800
Speaker 3: rank that era of basketball?

1235
01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:28,519
Speaker 2: Well, the seventies, you know, the A B A, the

1236
01:13:28,600 --> 01:13:32,880
Speaker 2: NBA finally realized that we you know, doctor j Needham, Yeah,

1237
01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:37,000
Speaker 2: Ice Garbin, that was that. I would have to say

1238
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:42,000
Speaker 2: the eighties and I know that, you know, the Lakers won,

1239
01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:45,360
Speaker 2: the Chicago won three in a row. But the emergence

1240
01:13:46,080 --> 01:13:50,200
Speaker 2: of the NBA again, I think happened in the eighties

1241
01:13:50,240 --> 01:13:52,519
Speaker 2: because there were so many good teams in addition to

1242
01:13:53,360 --> 01:14:00,360
Speaker 2: Boston and in LA uh and the players, Magic Ring

1243
01:14:01,840 --> 01:14:06,920
Speaker 2: Isaiah byrd McHale. You know, you know, Dennis Johnson was amazing,

1244
01:14:07,760 --> 01:14:11,120
Speaker 2: you know, Sidney mindcree. You know, there was a plethora

1245
01:14:11,320 --> 01:14:17,439
Speaker 2: of like just amazing great players during that time that

1246
01:14:18,560 --> 01:14:21,200
Speaker 2: I had to say. The way they merged out of

1247
01:14:21,240 --> 01:14:24,880
Speaker 2: the seventies and gave the NBA life, it kind of

1248
01:14:24,960 --> 01:14:28,000
Speaker 2: breathed life back into the NBA. So for me, and

1249
01:14:28,080 --> 01:14:30,240
Speaker 2: I'm being a little bit biased, but I think that was.

1250
01:14:31,120 --> 01:14:35,960
Speaker 2: It gave life to Shaq and Kobe and even Michael.

1251
01:14:36,280 --> 01:14:39,080
Speaker 2: Even MJ had to pay his dues to really, so

1252
01:14:39,360 --> 01:14:40,960
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, it was, it was. It was a

1253
01:14:41,040 --> 01:14:44,880
Speaker 2: good era. And then you know, television, the salaries began

1254
01:14:45,439 --> 01:14:49,040
Speaker 2: to emerge in the late eighties. You know, I tell

1255
01:14:49,080 --> 01:14:50,840
Speaker 2: people all the time, I was the number one draft

1256
01:14:50,880 --> 01:14:54,439
Speaker 2: pick in eighty two, you know, four hundred and seventy

1257
01:14:54,479 --> 01:14:58,000
Speaker 2: five thousand, that was. And I had veterans coming up

1258
01:14:58,040 --> 01:15:01,280
Speaker 2: to me who have been in the league seven or

1259
01:15:01,320 --> 01:15:04,599
Speaker 2: eight years saying, how the hell you getting four hundred

1260
01:15:04,640 --> 01:15:07,800
Speaker 2: and seventy five thousand dollars? You know, but I play

1261
01:15:07,880 --> 01:15:10,040
Speaker 2: for that Now I can't find a job. I mean

1262
01:15:10,080 --> 01:15:12,800
Speaker 2: you can. But but just to show you that the

1263
01:15:12,920 --> 01:15:18,600
Speaker 2: eighties propelled into salaries contracts, the balloon payment, all that

1264
01:15:18,760 --> 01:15:22,640
Speaker 2: kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah, Collector Barton Agreement, beginning to

1265
01:15:22,680 --> 01:15:25,800
Speaker 2: be more focused on what the players were getting. You know,

1266
01:15:26,560 --> 01:15:30,880
Speaker 2: as a retired player, I'm getting full coverage insurance now

1267
01:15:31,000 --> 01:15:34,880
Speaker 2: because of you know, the way that you guys thought about,

1268
01:15:35,000 --> 01:15:37,280
Speaker 2: you know, what the league needs, and so yeah, it's

1269
01:15:37,400 --> 01:15:40,800
Speaker 2: it's but the eighties started a lot of we never

1270
01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:45,920
Speaker 2: we never strike. We were close a couple of times.

1271
01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:48,559
Speaker 2: But so it's good.

1272
01:15:48,840 --> 01:15:51,160
Speaker 6: That's one thing that the league got right. Took care

1273
01:15:51,160 --> 01:15:53,599
Speaker 6: of the older players and everybody's insurance. Not that's one

1274
01:15:53,640 --> 01:15:54,599
Speaker 6: thing they did get right.

1275
01:15:55,120 --> 01:15:58,439
Speaker 2: They did unlike you know, unfortunately the NFL, because when

1276
01:15:58,479 --> 01:16:02,880
Speaker 2: you think of guys like Bill Russell, Algum Baylor, uh,

1277
01:16:03,200 --> 01:16:05,479
Speaker 2: you know, all those guys, even even Bob Cousy and

1278
01:16:05,520 --> 01:16:10,840
Speaker 2: Tommy Hysen was very critical to starting the Players Association

1279
01:16:10,960 --> 01:16:14,400
Speaker 2: to get rights for us. Uh. And so yeah, I

1280
01:16:14,479 --> 01:16:17,240
Speaker 2: mean and you know, they played, you know, they played

1281
01:16:17,280 --> 01:16:19,280
Speaker 2: in the sixties. They were they were pretty good, you know,

1282
01:16:19,360 --> 01:16:24,160
Speaker 2: and they definitely deserve to have some some medical you know, uh,

1283
01:16:24,960 --> 01:16:27,800
Speaker 2: some medical care for for the contributions that they made.

1284
01:16:27,840 --> 01:16:30,120
Speaker 2: They kind of started. They did Busher Oh, I mean

1285
01:16:30,200 --> 01:16:32,960
Speaker 2: Bob Pettitt I Petted was a scoring machine, and you know,

1286
01:16:33,040 --> 01:16:35,680
Speaker 2: you do your little history, there's guys that stood for

1287
01:16:35,800 --> 01:16:39,680
Speaker 2: something and really, you know, uh left us something to

1288
01:16:39,720 --> 01:16:40,000
Speaker 2: work with.

1289
01:16:41,040 --> 01:16:44,920
Speaker 3: But the eighties being the physical league, it was do

1290
01:16:45,040 --> 01:16:49,320
Speaker 3: you feel, God, how do you feel? Guys like Steph Lebron,

1291
01:16:49,520 --> 01:16:52,280
Speaker 3: maybe even Giannis would affaired in that type of physicality

1292
01:16:52,320 --> 01:16:54,080
Speaker 3: and that kind of grind type league.

1293
01:16:54,280 --> 01:16:57,719
Speaker 2: It would have been a slight difference. The way Steph

1294
01:16:57,800 --> 01:17:00,120
Speaker 2: can shoot. I think he you know, the way he

1295
01:17:00,240 --> 01:17:03,200
Speaker 2: moves without the ball. I think he could survive to

1296
01:17:03,360 --> 01:17:06,479
Speaker 2: have to guard Magic on the other end, because we

1297
01:17:06,640 --> 01:17:10,040
Speaker 2: looked for matchups. You know, we put a lineup where

1298
01:17:10,040 --> 01:17:13,200
Speaker 2: he's going to have to guard me or Magic or

1299
01:17:13,560 --> 01:17:16,320
Speaker 2: you know, our A C. Green or somebody like that,

1300
01:17:16,360 --> 01:17:19,520
Speaker 2: who would get offensive rebounds. So I think the defensive

1301
01:17:20,600 --> 01:17:22,800
Speaker 2: issue would be a little bit different. And I you know,

1302
01:17:23,680 --> 01:17:26,920
Speaker 2: I remember when the league took away the handcheck and

1303
01:17:28,520 --> 01:17:30,360
Speaker 2: moved the three point line in a little bit because

1304
01:17:30,360 --> 01:17:32,240
Speaker 2: guys were coming out of college a little bit more,

1305
01:17:32,560 --> 01:17:36,680
Speaker 2: you know, frequently without having all the fundamentals. But you know,

1306
01:17:37,280 --> 01:17:40,719
Speaker 2: we're talking about defensive specialist like Sidney mind Cree, guys

1307
01:17:40,880 --> 01:17:44,400
Speaker 2: like you know, I mean, you guys played against Bruce

1308
01:17:44,479 --> 01:17:46,400
Speaker 2: Bowne and guys like that where they got to play

1309
01:17:47,080 --> 01:17:51,120
Speaker 2: Sean Elliott. It would be a little bit different. You

1310
01:17:51,120 --> 01:17:53,880
Speaker 2: wouldn't be able to run as freely and then you

1311
01:17:53,920 --> 01:17:59,240
Speaker 2: would definitely get exposed. I would see just clearing out

1312
01:18:00,000 --> 01:18:02,200
Speaker 2: even times in a row and Magic if you go

1313
01:18:02,280 --> 01:18:05,200
Speaker 2: to guard Magic, you know, we put in a situation

1314
01:18:05,280 --> 01:18:08,040
Speaker 2: where you got to guard somebody, So it would be

1315
01:18:08,080 --> 01:18:10,599
Speaker 2: a little bit different. But you know, look, guys today

1316
01:18:10,720 --> 01:18:15,360
Speaker 2: have mastered a style of play just like we did

1317
01:18:15,439 --> 01:18:17,320
Speaker 2: in the eighties. It's just a little bit. It's a

1318
01:18:17,360 --> 01:18:21,680
Speaker 2: little bit different, a little a little less inside now

1319
01:18:22,080 --> 01:18:27,559
Speaker 2: you know, your bigs aren't really big, so but yeah,

1320
01:18:27,640 --> 01:18:30,080
Speaker 2: I think I think it'd be a little different defensively,

1321
01:18:30,960 --> 01:18:33,519
Speaker 2: a little bit more lockdown. I'd love to see Michael Cooper,

1322
01:18:34,400 --> 01:18:36,800
Speaker 2: you know, play against some of the some of these

1323
01:18:36,840 --> 01:18:41,040
Speaker 2: guys that but the way the ball handling is, the

1324
01:18:41,080 --> 01:18:44,080
Speaker 2: way Kyrie Irving is, it'd be a challenge to be

1325
01:18:44,120 --> 01:18:45,400
Speaker 2: a challenger, no doubt.

1326
01:18:45,560 --> 01:18:50,479
Speaker 3: What was it like seeing Mike's kind of rise in

1327
01:18:50,600 --> 01:18:57,479
Speaker 3: the early nineties, It was, uh, I'm not gonna say

1328
01:18:57,479 --> 01:18:59,280
Speaker 3: it was overdue, but the timing was.

1329
01:19:00,880 --> 01:19:04,519
Speaker 2: Was was good for Michael because he realized you know,

1330
01:19:04,560 --> 01:19:07,360
Speaker 2: he couldn't do it all by himself. You know, I

1331
01:19:07,439 --> 01:19:14,479
Speaker 2: think Michael he knew about team at Carolina, but I

1332
01:19:14,479 --> 01:19:18,240
Speaker 2: don't think he really mastered it until guys like Hardst

1333
01:19:18,320 --> 01:19:25,320
Speaker 2: Grant Hippen, guys like that. Cartwright was a big part of,

1334
01:19:26,600 --> 01:19:30,320
Speaker 2: you know, the conversations with Michael. He had to learn

1335
01:19:30,840 --> 01:19:34,519
Speaker 2: through with the Pistons really, but once he got past

1336
01:19:34,680 --> 01:19:38,559
Speaker 2: that and what Fiel was in place, and he trusted

1337
01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:46,920
Speaker 2: his teammates, trusted Paxson and Kerr and those guys, he

1338
01:19:47,080 --> 01:19:49,880
Speaker 2: was he was. He was driven. He would driving them.

1339
01:19:49,960 --> 01:19:55,360
Speaker 2: But yet all those guys made him better. They enhanced

1340
01:19:55,400 --> 01:19:58,760
Speaker 2: his game, and that's why they started to win. Now,

1341
01:19:59,080 --> 01:20:01,640
Speaker 2: Lakers were done, Boston was done, The twelve was kind

1342
01:20:01,680 --> 01:20:06,120
Speaker 2: of over. Keem Olajawan did what he did, but the

1343
01:20:06,280 --> 01:20:09,800
Speaker 2: league was you know, it was was right for Michael.

1344
01:20:09,920 --> 01:20:14,080
Speaker 2: Utah was still there. He had some challenges, but once

1345
01:20:14,120 --> 01:20:18,400
Speaker 2: he once he tasted the honey, he wanted someone. That's

1346
01:20:18,439 --> 01:20:21,599
Speaker 2: what he is. He won chips with no All Stars. Yeah,

1347
01:20:22,040 --> 01:20:26,880
Speaker 2: he once he tasted, that's it for him. He's like

1348
01:20:27,120 --> 01:20:29,280
Speaker 2: locked in. That's it's like golf for him. Once he

1349
01:20:29,960 --> 01:20:32,680
Speaker 2: once he gets locked in, that's it and I've never

1350
01:20:32,760 --> 01:20:38,080
Speaker 2: seen one player that challenges everybody like in your face,

1351
01:20:38,920 --> 01:20:40,880
Speaker 2: right or wrong. Whether he's right or wrong, he's in

1352
01:20:41,000 --> 01:20:44,839
Speaker 2: your face. So he says it, he says a good example.

1353
01:20:45,000 --> 01:20:47,439
Speaker 3: Any fun or competitive stories on and off the court.

1354
01:20:48,040 --> 01:20:56,719
Speaker 3: What about Mike uh Man? Michael not not anything too crazy.

1355
01:20:56,920 --> 01:20:57,120
Speaker 5: You know.

1356
01:20:57,320 --> 01:21:00,160
Speaker 2: The guys used to tease him a lot, right. So

1357
01:21:00,200 --> 01:21:07,599
Speaker 2: we had a running program. Three groups, A quick young guards.

1358
01:21:08,800 --> 01:21:11,240
Speaker 2: They'd have to run their time, you know, like a

1359
01:21:11,320 --> 01:21:15,479
Speaker 2: two twenty and twenty seven seconds. B group which Michael

1360
01:21:15,640 --> 01:21:19,400
Speaker 2: was in, had to run his and thirty and then

1361
01:21:19,439 --> 01:21:22,840
Speaker 2: the bigs. So the little guys were always telling Michael

1362
01:21:22,880 --> 01:21:24,920
Speaker 2: the point guards, ah, you got more, you got three

1363
01:21:24,960 --> 01:21:29,320
Speaker 2: more seconds to make your time. So Michael got tired

1364
01:21:29,360 --> 01:21:32,760
Speaker 2: of hearing that shit. He went and told coach she

1365
01:21:32,880 --> 01:21:36,280
Speaker 2: had put me in the A group. He just busted

1366
01:21:36,439 --> 01:21:39,360
Speaker 2: at he was running. He was running shit twenty five seconds.

1367
01:21:40,120 --> 01:21:44,160
Speaker 2: But rookies also had to carry like either field rejector

1368
01:21:45,560 --> 01:21:48,479
Speaker 2: or the boom box, and Michael had the big boom

1369
01:21:48,520 --> 01:21:51,320
Speaker 2: box he had to carry around. I don't really one time,

1370
01:21:51,479 --> 01:21:53,640
Speaker 2: you know, I think we had to get on him

1371
01:21:53,680 --> 01:21:57,160
Speaker 2: by Kurtfield boy, he was real close to because you know,

1372
01:21:57,360 --> 01:22:00,479
Speaker 2: one guy in Trouble, the whole team that run. Michael

1373
01:22:00,560 --> 01:22:02,280
Speaker 2: was pretty he was pretty clever. He didn't I don't

1374
01:22:02,280 --> 01:22:04,639
Speaker 2: really remember too many. Buzz Peterson. You have to ask

1375
01:22:04,720 --> 01:22:10,760
Speaker 2: Buzz his roommate. I know, Buzz used to say, you know, ah,

1376
01:22:12,320 --> 01:22:16,240
Speaker 2: because Buzz was kind of a preppy dresser kind of guy.

1377
01:22:16,280 --> 01:22:18,240
Speaker 2: So we always had to button down stairs, and Michael

1378
01:22:18,360 --> 01:22:21,120
Speaker 2: used to wear all his clothes and so he's, you know,

1379
01:22:21,200 --> 01:22:23,760
Speaker 2: Buzz's put his shoes on, maybe all stretched out and

1380
01:22:23,840 --> 01:22:26,840
Speaker 2: messed up. He used to do stuff like that with

1381
01:22:27,000 --> 01:22:33,360
Speaker 2: Buzz and they're still boys. But yeah, Michael was, he was.

1382
01:22:33,479 --> 01:22:35,679
Speaker 2: He was pretty cool on campus. He went to class,

1383
01:22:35,840 --> 01:22:40,920
Speaker 2: you know, low profile. When did you know it was

1384
01:22:41,040 --> 01:22:47,439
Speaker 2: time to retire? When it wasn't no fun anymore? Yeah,

1385
01:22:47,720 --> 01:22:53,960
Speaker 2: and you know Magic retired. Everybody was was gone, Coop

1386
01:22:54,280 --> 01:23:00,600
Speaker 2: was gone, Kareem. I think Byron had been traded to Indiana,

1387
01:23:01,240 --> 01:23:04,640
Speaker 2: and so I was there with a you know with

1388
01:23:04,960 --> 01:23:13,920
Speaker 2: young players, you know, Anthony Peeler, h Elden, Campbell, guys

1389
01:23:14,040 --> 01:23:19,080
Speaker 2: like that, and so they didn't really understand what I

1390
01:23:19,200 --> 01:23:22,360
Speaker 2: had gone through, and I couldn't understand where they were headed.

1391
01:23:22,760 --> 01:23:25,720
Speaker 2: They just wasn't fun anymore. The fun for me was

1392
01:23:25,960 --> 01:23:28,519
Speaker 2: getting up going to practice. You know, we would get

1393
01:23:28,520 --> 01:23:30,880
Speaker 2: with the ball. I practice used to be on point,

1394
01:23:31,040 --> 01:23:35,200
Speaker 2: like fun, and then you know the camaraderie, the joking

1395
01:23:35,400 --> 01:23:36,760
Speaker 2: on the back of the bus, and you know, we

1396
01:23:36,880 --> 01:23:40,040
Speaker 2: had family. We played the together for nine years. So

1397
01:23:40,160 --> 01:23:42,120
Speaker 2: when I you know, when I didn't see the same

1398
01:23:42,160 --> 01:23:45,920
Speaker 2: attitude and my knee was starting to you know, I

1399
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:50,920
Speaker 2: had archscope. You know, I remember my signature dunk, you know,

1400
01:23:51,600 --> 01:23:54,360
Speaker 2: not from the free throne lad but right inside. And

1401
01:23:54,439 --> 01:23:59,040
Speaker 2: I just remember, like it was ninety three, and I

1402
01:23:59,080 --> 01:24:05,640
Speaker 2: remember stealing and I'm I'm there, and about halfway there,

1403
01:24:05,720 --> 01:24:13,280
Speaker 2: I start coming turned into a turned into a flip.

1404
01:24:13,400 --> 01:24:15,840
Speaker 2: You know when your body, when your body kind of

1405
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:17,920
Speaker 2: starts talking to you, and you know, we didn't have

1406
01:24:18,080 --> 01:24:20,080
Speaker 2: what they guys have today, but you know it's pretty

1407
01:24:20,080 --> 01:24:22,720
Speaker 2: good shape. But when your body starts telling you, you know,

1408
01:24:22,800 --> 01:24:25,160
Speaker 2: and then when your mind starts saying, yeah, it's not

1409
01:24:25,360 --> 01:24:28,000
Speaker 2: finding more. Yeah, I was ready. I was ready to

1410
01:24:28,040 --> 01:24:28,479
Speaker 2: give it out.

1411
01:24:28,840 --> 01:24:31,719
Speaker 5: Anybody in today's game remind you of Big Game. James.

1412
01:24:34,280 --> 01:24:39,320
Speaker 2: I can't say, man, uh, I really I really can't.

1413
01:24:39,600 --> 01:24:42,320
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, one of my favorite guys to

1414
01:24:42,439 --> 01:24:44,880
Speaker 2: see it. I liked him in Texas was Cavin Durant.

1415
01:24:44,920 --> 01:24:48,040
Speaker 2: He had that once I developed an eight foot you

1416
01:24:48,120 --> 01:24:51,200
Speaker 2: know area where you know to step back from eight

1417
01:24:51,280 --> 01:24:53,920
Speaker 2: foot you know. By no means, I'm not comparing myself

1418
01:24:54,000 --> 01:24:56,320
Speaker 2: to to a camera Durant, but I liked his style.

1419
01:24:56,960 --> 01:24:58,880
Speaker 2: I can't really say it. They say Jeff Green when

1420
01:24:58,920 --> 01:24:59,640
Speaker 2: he first came in.

1421
01:25:00,080 --> 01:25:00,600
Speaker 5: I can see that.

1422
01:25:00,720 --> 01:25:03,000
Speaker 2: When he first came in he had a statue. Yeah

1423
01:25:03,439 --> 01:25:05,880
Speaker 2: he had a little, but I can't really. Not too

1424
01:25:05,920 --> 01:25:09,040
Speaker 2: many guys had to spind move up the footwork. I

1425
01:25:09,360 --> 01:25:11,960
Speaker 2: went to Pete Newles big Man camp for like three

1426
01:25:12,000 --> 01:25:15,680
Speaker 2: or four years, so footwork was was big. But you

1427
01:25:15,720 --> 01:25:19,639
Speaker 2: don't see the post game too much anymore, especially from

1428
01:25:19,680 --> 01:25:23,120
Speaker 2: a guard or mid range player. Very very seldom that

1429
01:25:23,200 --> 01:25:26,200
Speaker 2: you see a plays called for that. And that was

1430
01:25:26,280 --> 01:25:27,000
Speaker 2: my specialty.

1431
01:25:27,080 --> 01:25:27,400
Speaker 5: So I don't.

1432
01:25:27,479 --> 01:25:28,960
Speaker 2: I don't really see that too much.

1433
01:25:29,760 --> 01:25:30,280
Speaker 5: Like I used to.

1434
01:25:31,479 --> 01:25:33,519
Speaker 6: When I got in the league. Paul Pierce started it,

1435
01:25:33,560 --> 01:25:35,680
Speaker 6: and every team started doing after Paul Piers because he

1436
01:25:35,760 --> 01:25:38,479
Speaker 6: was the master the stuff ual on that block to

1437
01:25:38,640 --> 01:25:43,639
Speaker 6: dribble man, get that shoulder, go quick inside, hitot that's

1438
01:25:43,640 --> 01:25:44,240
Speaker 6: all going from you.

1439
01:25:44,439 --> 01:25:47,720
Speaker 2: He was doing that at Inglewood High School used to

1440
01:25:47,760 --> 01:25:51,080
Speaker 2: come to our games like five minutes away. Paul, It's.

1441
01:25:52,760 --> 01:25:55,760
Speaker 6: Got any COVID was the biggest story end of the game.

1442
01:25:57,400 --> 01:25:59,200
Speaker 6: Some moves he probably picked up from you you got

1443
01:25:59,240 --> 01:25:59,960
Speaker 6: any Corby Store.

1444
01:26:01,960 --> 01:26:05,599
Speaker 2: I was. I was helping Byron Coach. I wasn't traveling,

1445
01:26:05,680 --> 01:26:07,639
Speaker 2: but I was going to all the practices here at home.

1446
01:26:08,560 --> 01:26:11,680
Speaker 2: So I was still doing television as well. And I

1447
01:26:11,800 --> 01:26:18,800
Speaker 2: was working with Julius Randall, Larry Nance, Turk Black just

1448
01:26:18,960 --> 01:26:22,360
Speaker 2: on footwork, you know, step backs up and on this

1449
01:26:22,439 --> 01:26:25,120
Speaker 2: all kinds of stuff. And Kobe was on the team,

1450
01:26:25,160 --> 01:26:30,599
Speaker 2: but he wasn't really practicing a lot. So Gary Vda,

1451
01:26:30,680 --> 01:26:32,840
Speaker 2: the trainer, called me one night, like nine thirty. This

1452
01:26:32,960 --> 01:26:38,320
Speaker 2: is Kobe's nineteenth year. Now, I worked with Kobe maybe

1453
01:26:38,400 --> 01:26:41,040
Speaker 2: his second year in the league when he when the

1454
01:26:41,160 --> 01:26:44,320
Speaker 2: Lakers used to go to Honolulu. I worked with he

1455
01:26:44,439 --> 01:26:46,639
Speaker 2: and Lamar Odham and some other guys, so i'd already,

1456
01:26:47,120 --> 01:26:50,720
Speaker 2: but this is his nineteenth year. He calls me, Gary

1457
01:26:50,800 --> 01:26:52,960
Speaker 2: Vedy Car said, Cobe wants to meet you in the

1458
01:26:53,080 --> 01:26:56,439
Speaker 2: gym in the morning. Yeah, what's up? So I meet

1459
01:26:56,520 --> 01:27:00,240
Speaker 2: him in the gym and he starts questioning me out

1460
01:27:01,479 --> 01:27:03,920
Speaker 2: a certain area. It wasn't the whole lane. It was

1461
01:27:03,960 --> 01:27:09,760
Speaker 2: just a certain area that his dad used to get

1462
01:27:11,640 --> 01:27:15,720
Speaker 2: VHS and Beta Max when he was in Italy. Jellybean

1463
01:27:16,360 --> 01:27:18,360
Speaker 2: he played in the NBA for a little while before

1464
01:27:18,400 --> 01:27:23,680
Speaker 2: going to him, and this guy said he remembered this

1465
01:27:24,960 --> 01:27:29,840
Speaker 2: some move and then he went to show me based

1466
01:27:29,880 --> 01:27:32,920
Speaker 2: on this video that he had seen as a kid.

1467
01:27:33,080 --> 01:27:36,120
Speaker 2: He just because he was getting older, he wasn't relying

1468
01:27:36,200 --> 01:27:40,080
Speaker 2: on his quickness, and it was just a surprise step in.

1469
01:27:40,280 --> 01:27:40,439
Speaker 6: You know.

1470
01:27:41,600 --> 01:27:43,760
Speaker 2: I would pretend that I was talking to Magic. I'd

1471
01:27:43,760 --> 01:27:46,680
Speaker 2: be like what, and then I would spend and you know,

1472
01:27:46,840 --> 01:27:49,240
Speaker 2: he just and because I said, you're working too hard

1473
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:51,880
Speaker 2: to get you know, you don't need to be running

1474
01:27:51,880 --> 01:27:54,160
Speaker 2: all everywhere to get open. I said, just walk into it,

1475
01:27:55,360 --> 01:27:57,880
Speaker 2: you know. And then sometimes you might set a back pick,

1476
01:27:58,000 --> 01:28:00,320
Speaker 2: but you got to tell your point guard what you doing.

1477
01:28:01,120 --> 01:28:01,559
Speaker 5: And he was.

1478
01:28:03,200 --> 01:28:06,799
Speaker 2: He was still studying the game. Man, He wasn't even practicing.

1479
01:28:06,880 --> 01:28:08,639
Speaker 2: He wasn't playing a lot either, but he was still

1480
01:28:09,920 --> 01:28:14,679
Speaker 2: trying to pick up something. And I'd never seen that before.

1481
01:28:15,479 --> 01:28:18,160
Speaker 2: I interviewed him once down in everybody in his office,

1482
01:28:18,320 --> 01:28:23,679
Speaker 2: and I've never seen a player so focus. I don't

1483
01:28:23,680 --> 01:28:27,200
Speaker 2: think he had any hobbies like golf or anything. He

1484
01:28:27,360 --> 01:28:30,679
Speaker 2: was that he was just so super focused on detail

1485
01:28:31,880 --> 01:28:34,280
Speaker 2: and the way he watched the game. He watched everything

1486
01:28:35,760 --> 01:28:37,880
Speaker 2: hand movement. We'd be watching video and he'd be like,

1487
01:28:37,880 --> 01:28:40,000
Speaker 2: always got his hand up. I got him, what are

1488
01:28:40,000 --> 01:28:42,760
Speaker 2: you talking about? Because he's like, well, his weights on

1489
01:28:42,840 --> 01:28:45,120
Speaker 2: that side. So anytime he thro his hands up his

1490
01:28:45,720 --> 01:28:49,360
Speaker 2: So I've never seen anybody look at the game the

1491
01:28:49,439 --> 01:28:53,120
Speaker 2: way he did. And then you know, of course, his

1492
01:28:53,200 --> 01:28:57,360
Speaker 2: philosophy was nobody's going to have more hours than me.

1493
01:28:58,600 --> 01:29:03,920
Speaker 2: I'm working at at four am to six ten twelve,

1494
01:29:04,920 --> 01:29:09,880
Speaker 2: you know, so I know if I have twenty hours

1495
01:29:09,920 --> 01:29:11,960
Speaker 2: at the end of the day and somebody else only

1496
01:29:12,000 --> 01:29:15,439
Speaker 2: has seven, then I'm so when you when you're charging

1497
01:29:15,479 --> 01:29:18,240
Speaker 2: your mind with that and you believe it, you believe

1498
01:29:18,240 --> 01:29:21,559
Speaker 2: you're gonna make that shot, you know, when you're trapped

1499
01:29:21,600 --> 01:29:23,000
Speaker 2: in the corner and you gotta know what to do,

1500
01:29:23,120 --> 01:29:25,240
Speaker 2: but throw a left hand three and that shit goes in.

1501
01:29:27,280 --> 01:29:27,400
Speaker 5: You know.

1502
01:29:27,520 --> 01:29:31,000
Speaker 2: That was that's a that's a mindset. That's uh, they

1503
01:29:31,080 --> 01:29:33,960
Speaker 2: can do anything. Probably I can probably be president one

1504
01:29:34,040 --> 01:29:36,200
Speaker 2: day if he wanted or something like that. But he

1505
01:29:36,600 --> 01:29:39,320
Speaker 2: had a and I was just sad that we didn't

1506
01:29:39,360 --> 01:29:41,920
Speaker 2: get to see what he was going to get to do.

1507
01:29:42,920 --> 01:29:45,360
Speaker 2: It's for for for for girls in particularly. You know,

1508
01:29:45,479 --> 01:29:48,920
Speaker 2: he's he's focused, he's locked in. He's locked in. Brother

1509
01:29:51,920 --> 01:29:52,280
Speaker 2: who is.

1510
01:29:52,640 --> 01:29:55,800
Speaker 5: Big game James outside of basketball? Like, what do you

1511
01:29:55,880 --> 01:29:58,040
Speaker 5: like to do? How is do you golf? Know you

1512
01:29:58,160 --> 01:29:58,519
Speaker 5: like golf?

1513
01:29:58,920 --> 01:30:01,519
Speaker 4: I love golf, man, I suck at it, but I

1514
01:30:01,640 --> 01:30:06,240
Speaker 4: love chasing it. I love chasing it as most people though. Yeah,

1515
01:30:06,520 --> 01:30:08,439
Speaker 4: I love playing golf, but I suck it most people

1516
01:30:08,479 --> 01:30:10,439
Speaker 4: who are honest about it. I just go out because

1517
01:30:11,320 --> 01:30:12,360
Speaker 4: it's a good fellowship.

1518
01:30:14,360 --> 01:30:16,760
Speaker 2: Really, A big part of my portfolio comes from being

1519
01:30:16,800 --> 01:30:18,960
Speaker 2: on the golf course because that's what the decision makers are.

1520
01:30:19,960 --> 01:30:24,760
Speaker 2: They're out there, you know, trying to see, hey, who

1521
01:30:24,840 --> 01:30:30,760
Speaker 2: can speak at my convention? Right? So it works some

1522
01:30:30,920 --> 01:30:34,799
Speaker 2: some business ventures I love. I love my girls thirty

1523
01:30:34,840 --> 01:30:39,120
Speaker 2: three and thirty one. Now, our journey was was was

1524
01:30:39,200 --> 01:30:42,200
Speaker 2: a tough journey, but now we're in a place where

1525
01:30:42,240 --> 01:30:45,800
Speaker 2: we you know, we've had some some good conversations. I

1526
01:30:45,960 --> 01:30:48,400
Speaker 2: just love helping people. Man Boys and Girls Club do

1527
01:30:48,520 --> 01:30:51,240
Speaker 2: some scholarships in my mom's ain't back home. Same things

1528
01:30:51,320 --> 01:30:53,839
Speaker 2: we all do because I think you get a platform

1529
01:30:53,960 --> 01:31:00,559
Speaker 2: for a reason, and that's to give back something whatever

1530
01:31:00,680 --> 01:31:03,479
Speaker 2: that is. So I try to you know, I try

1531
01:31:03,560 --> 01:31:06,799
Speaker 2: to stay focused on the business. Tip got a product.

1532
01:31:07,720 --> 01:31:12,760
Speaker 2: Uh it's a cryo therapy. Uh like a best that

1533
01:31:12,920 --> 01:31:16,200
Speaker 2: has like a specialized jail pass. Is kind of ice

1534
01:31:17,040 --> 01:31:19,960
Speaker 2: Ice Ice company. We're working with some little things. Man.

1535
01:31:20,520 --> 01:31:24,080
Speaker 2: Try to stay busy. Yeah, well, we.

1536
01:31:24,160 --> 01:31:27,200
Speaker 3: Appreciate your time today man. And with the quick hitters. Now,

1537
01:31:27,280 --> 01:31:29,400
Speaker 3: so the first thing to come to mind, let us

1538
01:31:29,479 --> 01:31:34,439
Speaker 3: know all time, your all time Lakers starting five. Uh.

1539
01:31:34,840 --> 01:31:40,920
Speaker 2: I gotta start with Elgin Baylor, only because I know

1540
01:31:41,040 --> 01:31:44,519
Speaker 2: the history a little bit about Elgin, seen footage, I

1541
01:31:44,680 --> 01:31:49,160
Speaker 2: talked to people. Uh one morning I woke up to

1542
01:31:49,280 --> 01:31:55,439
Speaker 2: the LA Times and Sports page James Worthy's second best

1543
01:31:55,439 --> 01:32:00,240
Speaker 2: small forward that would play second. And then once I

1544
01:32:00,280 --> 01:32:03,080
Speaker 2: saw the Elgin Baylor was first, I left it alone

1545
01:32:04,200 --> 01:32:08,800
Speaker 2: because he was that bad of a boy. Uh. I

1546
01:32:08,840 --> 01:32:13,880
Speaker 2: think Elgiebla created the jump shot. Nobody was jumping. They

1547
01:32:13,920 --> 01:32:18,400
Speaker 2: were shooting set shots. Uh, the euro step. If you go,

1548
01:32:19,000 --> 01:32:22,240
Speaker 2: you go look at someone Elgin's footage. He's been doing it,

1549
01:32:22,439 --> 01:32:24,960
Speaker 2: been doing it. And he was sticking on your hands too.

1550
01:32:25,080 --> 01:32:27,479
Speaker 2: He was I saw him sticking on Russell a couple

1551
01:32:27,520 --> 01:32:30,840
Speaker 2: of times in footage, and the brother played from an

1552
01:32:30,920 --> 01:32:33,479
Speaker 2: army base. He was in the military. A lot of

1553
01:32:33,560 --> 01:32:35,800
Speaker 2: the times they would go get him before the weekend game,

1554
01:32:36,439 --> 01:32:39,080
Speaker 2: bring them to the game. But Chick Hern to this

1555
01:32:39,280 --> 01:32:44,160
Speaker 2: day says the Elgin Baylor was the baddest boy he

1556
01:32:44,240 --> 01:32:49,400
Speaker 2: ever seen. So I'm starting with Elger. Will wasn't a

1557
01:32:49,479 --> 01:32:55,799
Speaker 2: Laker long enough, so I'm gonna go with Kareem at center, Shaq,

1558
01:32:58,720 --> 01:33:00,519
Speaker 2: Kobe and Magic.

1559
01:33:01,080 --> 01:33:01,559
Speaker 5: Mm hmm.

1560
01:33:02,080 --> 01:33:02,679
Speaker 2: That's my all.

1561
01:33:05,080 --> 01:33:08,200
Speaker 6: Before I actually the next question, what's the story behind

1562
01:33:09,160 --> 01:33:10,240
Speaker 6: you signed with New Balands.

1563
01:33:10,280 --> 01:33:12,120
Speaker 5: You got a lifetime deal with New Balance.

1564
01:33:12,400 --> 01:33:17,080
Speaker 2: A lifetime right. Still, I still got a good relationship

1565
01:33:17,160 --> 01:33:22,240
Speaker 2: with them, man, and in fact congratulates to co Co

1566
01:33:22,479 --> 01:33:25,439
Speaker 2: getting the job done in the open. But I was

1567
01:33:25,520 --> 01:33:30,760
Speaker 2: the first one to wear their basketball shoe in eighty two.

1568
01:33:31,800 --> 01:33:36,879
Speaker 2: They were big and running. But the shoe is amazing

1569
01:33:37,840 --> 01:33:41,640
Speaker 2: the way it's built. So I took a chance. You know,

1570
01:33:41,880 --> 01:33:47,840
Speaker 2: Nike was there, Converse was still big, but my agent

1571
01:33:47,920 --> 01:33:52,439
Speaker 2: the time was was was talking to New Bounds because

1572
01:33:52,439 --> 01:33:54,760
Speaker 2: they were looking to get into the basketball one. Now,

1573
01:33:54,800 --> 01:33:57,000
Speaker 2: what they didn't do they paid well. I had the

1574
01:33:57,040 --> 01:33:59,760
Speaker 2: biggest shoe contract. I think it was like five, you know,

1575
01:34:00,040 --> 01:34:00,559
Speaker 2: five years.

1576
01:34:00,600 --> 01:34:01,280
Speaker 5: It was something like that.

1577
01:34:02,280 --> 01:34:07,720
Speaker 2: Crazy until Moses, I'm sorry, until Michael came along. But

1578
01:34:08,520 --> 01:34:11,800
Speaker 2: Great Shoe and I took a chance because I had

1579
01:34:11,840 --> 01:34:16,760
Speaker 2: no idea that New Balance was into basketball. But once

1580
01:34:16,800 --> 01:34:19,880
Speaker 2: I put they had a mesh shoe was the first

1581
01:34:19,960 --> 01:34:23,400
Speaker 2: year I put on. It was light, felt good, and

1582
01:34:23,479 --> 01:34:28,599
Speaker 2: I've been wearing those what I consider bucking ankle breakers

1583
01:34:28,720 --> 01:34:34,400
Speaker 2: converse in college. So I liked the shoe. I stuck

1584
01:34:34,479 --> 01:34:41,760
Speaker 2: with them forever. There's a couple times my shoes got

1585
01:34:41,800 --> 01:34:46,040
Speaker 2: stolen and I had to wear the visiting teams, I

1586
01:34:46,120 --> 01:34:48,559
Speaker 2: mean the whole team shoes. So they got they got

1587
01:34:48,600 --> 01:34:50,400
Speaker 2: on a couple of basketball cards. They got me in

1588
01:34:50,479 --> 01:34:54,280
Speaker 2: Adidas if you ever see it. But I just talked

1589
01:34:54,280 --> 01:34:57,920
Speaker 2: to them about six months ago about trying to you know,

1590
01:34:58,280 --> 01:35:02,040
Speaker 2: they always get me product. Yeah, but we're trying to

1591
01:35:02,040 --> 01:35:04,840
Speaker 2: be working on some things because I was the first. Actually,

1592
01:35:05,479 --> 01:35:07,439
Speaker 2: believe it or not, it was a Boston Celtic that

1593
01:35:07,720 --> 01:35:11,360
Speaker 2: introduced me to them mL CAR because they're out of

1594
01:35:12,200 --> 01:35:14,800
Speaker 2: New Balances out of Maine and he was working with

1595
01:35:14,880 --> 01:35:17,640
Speaker 2: them in Boston a little bit. So Great Shoe, the

1596
01:35:17,760 --> 01:35:20,920
Speaker 2: son has taken over now Chris, and he's in his

1597
01:35:21,120 --> 01:35:24,880
Speaker 2: thirties and he's you know a little bit more, you know,

1598
01:35:25,760 --> 01:35:29,880
Speaker 2: has more ideas, got baseball players, got women. You know,

1599
01:35:30,040 --> 01:35:32,640
Speaker 2: it's it's it's it's very competitive now. So yeah, so

1600
01:35:32,760 --> 01:35:37,040
Speaker 2: it's be nice to blend, you know, somebody's younger. Yeah,

1601
01:35:37,880 --> 01:35:44,400
Speaker 2: I had to tell Kawi Leonard m one album you

1602
01:35:44,439 --> 01:35:48,840
Speaker 2: can listen to on repeat, Jeffrey Osborne on the Wings

1603
01:35:48,880 --> 01:35:53,559
Speaker 2: of Love. If I'm on the Freeway, uh ierk Went

1604
01:35:53,640 --> 01:35:57,240
Speaker 2: and Fire is what I grew up on. Uh No,

1605
01:35:57,360 --> 01:36:06,280
Speaker 2: Billy Well Yeah, Billy Ocean. It was my guy was big, clean, yeah, Philly.

1606
01:36:06,320 --> 01:36:11,000
Speaker 2: Every time I see Michael Finley, I'm like, but yeah,

1607
01:36:11,200 --> 01:36:12,800
Speaker 2: it would have to be Earth Winding Fire. That was

1608
01:36:12,840 --> 01:36:15,800
Speaker 2: the first concert uh I ever seen. But man, I

1609
01:36:16,000 --> 01:36:19,880
Speaker 2: like bands like the Barcades Confunction. This is this the

1610
01:36:20,000 --> 01:36:22,600
Speaker 2: mold stuff. But then you know, as it got a

1611
01:36:22,600 --> 01:36:27,160
Speaker 2: little older, you know, tribe called uh track on Quest

1612
01:36:27,280 --> 01:36:29,400
Speaker 2: was hot in Jersey. You got to see them in

1613
01:36:29,479 --> 01:36:32,120
Speaker 2: some local clubs and you know, if I listened to

1614
01:36:32,280 --> 01:36:33,960
Speaker 2: I'm not big in the rap, but if I do,

1615
01:36:34,439 --> 01:36:37,920
Speaker 2: you know, I'm gonna probably be nos like that's some deep,

1616
01:36:37,960 --> 01:36:42,040
Speaker 2: stuffy earth Winding Fire is gonna get it, though. Who's

1617
01:36:42,080 --> 01:36:44,000
Speaker 2: the most underrated play of your generation?

1618
01:36:45,920 --> 01:36:46,080
Speaker 6: Man?

1619
01:36:46,320 --> 01:36:56,479
Speaker 2: Underrated? Well, people gonnay. There was a guy after Dennis

1620
01:36:56,600 --> 01:37:01,680
Speaker 2: Rodman that was just tough as nails and a lot

1621
01:37:01,720 --> 01:37:04,200
Speaker 2: of people don't remember him. But Rodney McCrae.

1622
01:37:05,000 --> 01:37:06,080
Speaker 5: I know that, I know that name.

1623
01:37:06,360 --> 01:37:09,320
Speaker 2: Uh played for the Rockets. Rockets, then he got traded

1624
01:37:09,520 --> 01:37:12,320
Speaker 2: I think after after that they beat us in eighty six.

1625
01:37:12,439 --> 01:37:15,360
Speaker 2: But we had a brother, Scooter McCrae, and they both

1626
01:37:15,400 --> 01:37:20,880
Speaker 2: played at Louisville and Uh, but one of the reasons

1627
01:37:20,960 --> 01:37:23,240
Speaker 2: that they that the that the Rockets beat us in

1628
01:37:23,320 --> 01:37:27,479
Speaker 2: eighty six was because of his ability to you know,

1629
01:37:28,600 --> 01:37:31,160
Speaker 2: slowed me down a little bit. We had Kareem, we

1630
01:37:31,200 --> 01:37:33,639
Speaker 2: had magic and they had they had a king Ralph

1631
01:37:33,760 --> 01:37:37,680
Speaker 2: and Reid and uh, you know they had they had

1632
01:37:37,720 --> 01:37:41,519
Speaker 2: they ran the ball. But right, Rodney McCrae was was

1633
01:37:41,640 --> 01:37:45,559
Speaker 2: tough man. And then there was another guy to play

1634
01:37:45,640 --> 01:37:51,800
Speaker 2: for the Mavericks in Seattle, Uh, Debtli Shrimp Deatlan Shrimp

1635
01:37:51,960 --> 01:37:56,640
Speaker 2: was He was tough, tough German guy man and uh

1636
01:37:57,320 --> 01:38:03,040
Speaker 2: strong fundamental foot work. His first step was long and quick,

1637
01:38:03,960 --> 01:38:06,240
Speaker 2: and I had some battles with him, But I would

1638
01:38:06,360 --> 01:38:10,200
Speaker 2: for me those those two guys didn't get all yeah.

1639
01:38:10,960 --> 01:38:13,880
Speaker 3: Uh, five dinner guests dead are alive? You plus five

1640
01:38:13,920 --> 01:38:15,200
Speaker 3: at the dinner table, dead are alive.

1641
01:38:15,240 --> 01:38:20,240
Speaker 2: Anybody that's hard?

1642
01:38:20,439 --> 01:38:23,720
Speaker 5: Man, that's hard. Uh.

1643
01:38:25,760 --> 01:38:29,800
Speaker 2: I wouldn't mind, you know, seeing what Frederick Douglass was

1644
01:38:29,840 --> 01:38:34,720
Speaker 2: all about. You know he was. He was an abolitionist,

1645
01:38:35,000 --> 01:38:38,960
Speaker 2: you know. Uh hm, So I'm gonna go there, Richard

1646
01:38:39,000 --> 01:38:47,120
Speaker 2: Pryor laugh off? Uh, Richard Pryor for sure? Uh maya

1647
01:38:47,240 --> 01:38:53,360
Speaker 2: Angelou just her dialect, you know Obama because you know

1648
01:38:53,479 --> 01:39:00,760
Speaker 2: he just emerged, and I got one more mhm oh man,

1649
01:39:01,320 --> 01:39:09,120
Speaker 2: I'm African entity, so strong, like Marcus Garvey or somebody

1650
01:39:09,200 --> 01:39:10,960
Speaker 2: my guy, that's my guy. I would have to go

1651
01:39:11,040 --> 01:39:14,679
Speaker 2: with Marcus because Marcus is deeper than a lot of people.

1652
01:39:14,760 --> 01:39:16,839
Speaker 6: Then he showed us how to get our own currency,

1653
01:39:17,840 --> 01:39:22,200
Speaker 6: showed us if you could see one guess on all

1654
01:39:22,240 --> 01:39:25,000
Speaker 6: the smoke, who would it be? But if I could

1655
01:39:25,000 --> 01:39:26,960
Speaker 6: see one guest on our show, who would it be?

1656
01:39:27,160 --> 01:39:27,679
Speaker 2: One guest?

1657
01:39:27,880 --> 01:39:29,519
Speaker 5: But you have to help us get your answer on

1658
01:39:29,600 --> 01:39:29,920
Speaker 5: the show.

1659
01:39:31,240 --> 01:39:33,599
Speaker 2: Uh ask me that one time?

1660
01:39:33,800 --> 01:39:36,200
Speaker 5: Who would you like to see on our show? And

1661
01:39:36,320 --> 01:39:39,240
Speaker 5: you have to help us get your answer? On our show.

1662
01:39:43,439 --> 01:39:47,760
Speaker 2: Is a I have been on the show before, no question, quest,

1663
01:39:48,280 --> 01:39:51,719
Speaker 2: no question. That's that's a tough one, man to anybody,

1664
01:39:51,880 --> 01:39:53,400
Speaker 2: athlete or not anybody.

1665
01:39:54,720 --> 01:39:56,799
Speaker 6: You know a lot of people that came through them games,

1666
01:39:56,800 --> 01:39:58,720
Speaker 6: and can you know a lot of people out here,

1667
01:40:00,080 --> 01:40:01,120
Speaker 6: a lot of people out here.

1668
01:40:01,280 --> 01:40:07,360
Speaker 2: It would be nice if you I think Denzel's been

1669
01:40:07,400 --> 01:40:13,400
Speaker 2: on too as not so that that would be somebody. Actually,

1670
01:40:14,520 --> 01:40:18,320
Speaker 2: if you get Denzel, get Paul Letter too, because there

1671
01:40:18,360 --> 01:40:21,720
Speaker 2: were Paul Letter's tickets. She was a bigger fan in

1672
01:40:21,800 --> 01:40:24,479
Speaker 2: the eighties than Denzel and nobody knows that. And Paul

1673
01:40:24,520 --> 01:40:27,760
Speaker 2: Letter was She's from North Carolina, So I would say

1674
01:40:28,000 --> 01:40:32,200
Speaker 2: Denzel and Paul Letter Lou gossip. Lou gossip was an

1675
01:40:32,200 --> 01:40:35,160
Speaker 2: old school say one of them with back back in

1676
01:40:35,280 --> 01:40:37,479
Speaker 2: the in the in the day. Okay, I'll see if

1677
01:40:37,479 --> 01:40:38,599
Speaker 2: we can get.

1678
01:40:38,479 --> 01:40:41,479
Speaker 3: You well, James, we appreciate it, man, your greatness, taking

1679
01:40:41,520 --> 01:40:43,559
Speaker 3: your time today, but just you know what you did

1680
01:40:43,640 --> 01:40:45,880
Speaker 3: for the game and Jackson. You know, you guys had

1681
01:40:46,200 --> 01:40:48,840
Speaker 3: a movement that inspired a lot of us to want

1682
01:40:48,840 --> 01:40:50,640
Speaker 3: to be great. So we want to thank you for

1683
01:40:50,760 --> 01:40:54,479
Speaker 3: that and continued success. Thank you guys for for keeping

1684
01:40:54,520 --> 01:40:59,040
Speaker 3: it going man, because you know, it's nice to sustain it.

1685
01:40:59,160 --> 01:41:03,760
Speaker 3: You guys were cond just about not only what basketball needed,

1686
01:41:03,840 --> 01:41:06,720
Speaker 3: but what life needed. You know what, what what the

1687
01:41:06,840 --> 01:41:10,360
Speaker 3: old players, retired players needed, what the communities need? So

1688
01:41:11,200 --> 01:41:14,280
Speaker 3: uh to use your platform doing this is you to

1689
01:41:14,360 --> 01:41:19,880
Speaker 3: be commended for. That's a wrap, James Worthy. You can

1690
01:41:19,960 --> 01:41:23,120
Speaker 3: catch us on Showtime Basketball, YouTube and the iHeart platform

1691
01:41:23,240 --> 01:41:23,960
Speaker 3: Black Effects.

1692
01:41:24,280 --> 01:41:25,120
Speaker 2: See y'all next week.