WEBVTT - Ann Killion on SF Giants implosion

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, San Francisco Chronicle columnist and Killian joining us right now.

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<v Speaker 1>Is covered Bay Area baseball for a while and great

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<v Speaker 1>to have you back on FT. We appreciate the time

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<v Speaker 1>as always and encourage everyone to check out Ann's work

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<v Speaker 1>in the San Francisco Chronicle and to give her a

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<v Speaker 1>follow at and Killian And we read your article about

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<v Speaker 1>Bob Melvin and really the Giants disaster season. This is

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<v Speaker 1>a team that's been in pretty good health. I was mentioning,

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<v Speaker 1>compared to many other ball clubs, what's going on out there?

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it's so weird.

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<v Speaker 3>It's so hard to put a finger on exactly what's

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<v Speaker 3>happened to them. You know, they had a really good

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<v Speaker 3>start to the season. There was so much enthusiasm going on.

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<v Speaker 3>The Paul Park has been packed. It's felt like the

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<v Speaker 3>old days, you know, the World Series here in terms

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<v Speaker 3>of the crowds coming in, the enthusiasm, the whole we

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<v Speaker 3>believe in whatever Buster's doing kind of vibe.

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<v Speaker 2>And then they got better, right.

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<v Speaker 3>They made the biggest trade of probably the season in

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<v Speaker 3>getting Devs in June in mid June, and they've just

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<v Speaker 3>been horrendous since then.

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<v Speaker 2>So the team.

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<v Speaker 3>Got better, as you said, it's relatively healthy, and they've

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<v Speaker 3>just like fallen off the table. The weird thing is

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<v Speaker 3>they're still kind of in the wild part because I guess,

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<v Speaker 3>thank you New York Mets. But it's pretty much been

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<v Speaker 3>I mean they especially what I think has got to

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<v Speaker 3>be driving ownership crazy is they are packing the ballpark

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<v Speaker 3>and I've lost fourteen out of I believe it's fourteen

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<v Speaker 3>at the last sixteen games at home.

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<v Speaker 4>And I hate this because I was a Giant. They

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<v Speaker 4>blamed me one year. So are the fans blaming Raffi Devers?

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<v Speaker 4>Are they blaming what's that? What's that?

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<v Speaker 2>Are they blaming Raffi?

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<v Speaker 4>I don't think so because because since I know, because

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<v Speaker 4>but the only reason I asked it is since they

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<v Speaker 4>got him, they've had the worst record in baseball. Everything

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<v Speaker 4>has kind of gone wrong. It's not his fault, but

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<v Speaker 4>you know, they all people are always looking. We're not

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<v Speaker 4>gonna blame Buster, clearly, and they don't think so now

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<v Speaker 4>were they going to blame? And I just feel like,

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<v Speaker 4>and it's not fair, But Raffie Devers is the one

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<v Speaker 4>that people point to. Oh you know, they said he

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<v Speaker 4>was a bad guy in Boston, So now he's a

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<v Speaker 4>bad guy in San Francisco and we can't win with him,

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<v Speaker 4>which I completely disagree with.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and I think anyone who's who's dug in a

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<v Speaker 3>little bit would disagree with that take, because you know,

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<v Speaker 3>he wasn't He wasn't really a bad guy in Boston.

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<v Speaker 3>They loved him in Boston. He just just you know,

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<v Speaker 3>didn't want to play first base. He felt he felt

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<v Speaker 3>like management hadn't been upfront with him about what was

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<v Speaker 3>going on. But you know, he's playing first base. He's

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<v Speaker 3>actually doing a pretty good job at first base. He

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<v Speaker 3>seems to be very welcomed, you know, in the clubhouse.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's an other thing that the clubhouse is good.

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<v Speaker 3>The chemistry seems good, the players seem cohesive.

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<v Speaker 2>So when you're looking, you know how it goes in baseball.

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<v Speaker 3>The manager gets blamed and a lot of people are

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<v Speaker 3>pointing the finger at Bob Melvin And is that fair?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think so. But is it? Is it predictable? Absolutely?

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<v Speaker 3>And you know, Bob knows that he's in his twenty

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<v Speaker 3>second year, he's he's been fired, he's been to the playoffs,

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<v Speaker 3>he's seen it all. So I think that is kind

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<v Speaker 3>of where the most of the blame lies, but it's

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<v Speaker 3>the Devers part is really puzzling, is like, how do

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<v Speaker 3>you literally make your team better, like much better hitting wise,

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<v Speaker 3>and then you get worse. It's it's and and you know,

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<v Speaker 3>they just aren't producing. They they don't get runners into

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<v Speaker 3>scoring position. When they do get them into scoring position,

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<v Speaker 3>they don't drive them in. It's just it's it's it's

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<v Speaker 3>roster construction is probably the main issue.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's something Buster is going to have to address

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<v Speaker 2>in the in the off season.

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<v Speaker 5>Well, Buster's not going to fire himself.

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<v Speaker 4>Blame me, Blame me like you guys did. Twenty one

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<v Speaker 4>year is a go in two thousand. Foere, you can

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<v Speaker 4>blame me. I don't care. You don't blame me, and

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<v Speaker 4>it's fine.

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<v Speaker 5>It's fine.

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<v Speaker 4>Hylon blame me and Giants Fance, it's my fault.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, you know they they their their favorite person aside

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<v Speaker 3>from you. A j to blame has been far Han

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<v Speaker 3>And actually, you know, when it comes.

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<v Speaker 4>To Gae and Gabe, don't forget Gabe and.

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<v Speaker 2>Gay and Gay but and you know, I mean Melvin.

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<v Speaker 2>That was the thing.

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<v Speaker 3>Like Melvin came in after Gabe got fired, and you know,

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<v Speaker 3>I think there was really a sense from the players

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<v Speaker 3>and also from the the fan base like, Okay, now

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<v Speaker 3>we're gonna we have a real baseball manager, and we're

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<v Speaker 3>gonna he's gonna it's gonna make sense to us. And

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<v Speaker 3>Buster has definitely tried to kind of have that. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>he didn't want to do the far Han train back

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<v Speaker 3>and forth to Triple A, you know, platooning everything player

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<v Speaker 3>you know, nobody knows who's playing when like no recognizable

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<v Speaker 3>players on the on the all that stuff was kind

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<v Speaker 3>of killing the fan base. People just weren't enjoying it.

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<v Speaker 3>So Buster, you know, very much, at the beginning of

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<v Speaker 3>the year tried to like stabilize the lineup and and

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<v Speaker 3>bring in some key pieces. And they are a better

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<v Speaker 3>team than they than they were now. Some of the

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<v Speaker 3>young players, their development doesn't seem great, and that's something

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<v Speaker 3>that you can probably have to dig deeper down into

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<v Speaker 3>the farm system than I do, as I'm not a

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<v Speaker 3>beat writer, I'm a columnist, but you know, and and certainly,

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<v Speaker 3>while some of far Han's things that he did were fantastic,

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<v Speaker 3>like Robbie Ray, others you know, are a little bit

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<v Speaker 3>more questionable.

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<v Speaker 2>So people still like to blame far Han too.

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<v Speaker 5>Ft fan. When you're playing games, you kind of have

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<v Speaker 5>Okay, farhun just catching strays he's not even out there.

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<v Speaker 5>Far Han's like, I'm working for I'm working for the

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<v Speaker 5>enemy exact. I love I loved Farhun and I got

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<v Speaker 5>way less rich than aj. I should be to blame.

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<v Speaker 5>So if you could blame somebody, you can blame me.

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<v Speaker 5>But my question is back to Bob Melvin. He shouldn't

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<v Speaker 5>take the blame. But it's not like what Buster used

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<v Speaker 5>to work with with Bochi Boch. He's got three world championships,

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<v Speaker 5>goes to Texas, he gets a fourth, Bob Melvin hasn't.

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<v Speaker 5>Is there a shorter leash because Buster knows what winning

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<v Speaker 5>in the winning a World Series actually takes and maybe

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<v Speaker 5>he doesn't see that in Bob.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think for sure there's a shorter leash. I

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<v Speaker 3>don't think that anything's going to happen during the season.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't think Buster would do that. I think he

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<v Speaker 3>would be very adverse to throwing, you know, throwing Bob

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<v Speaker 3>under the bus, making it look like he blames him,

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<v Speaker 3>because I think Buster is from the things he's said

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<v Speaker 3>during the slide, you know, it's more he feels it's

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<v Speaker 3>more about the.

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<v Speaker 2>Players or not.

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<v Speaker 3>But I think after this kind of collapse, I think

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<v Speaker 3>everything has to be looked at in the off season,

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<v Speaker 3>and I and I, you know, they they extended, they

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<v Speaker 3>they it was kind of weird they did the Dever's trade.

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<v Speaker 3>They extended Bob they picked up his option for next

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<v Speaker 3>year right away, like on July first. And did they

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<v Speaker 3>need to do that.

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<v Speaker 5>No.

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<v Speaker 3>But I think, you know, Buster is really about stability,

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<v Speaker 3>and I think that was kind of his way of saying,

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<v Speaker 3>we like the direction we're going in. In July first,

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<v Speaker 3>there was reason to like the direction they had been

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<v Speaker 3>going in for most of the season. Not so much now,

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<v Speaker 3>So I think I think there's going to be a

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<v Speaker 3>hard look. I think I think Buster probably has some

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<v Speaker 3>people in mind that he would think about as as

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<v Speaker 3>the next manager. I don't think he is naive enough

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<v Speaker 3>to think he can rehire Bocie or recreate Bochie in

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<v Speaker 3>any way. But you know, that's that's the thing about

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<v Speaker 3>what Bochi and Brian Sadian did and Buster some big

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<v Speaker 3>shoes to fill, and and that legacy lingers on even

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<v Speaker 3>though it's been a decade. They're they're you know, that

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<v Speaker 3>that expectation and and also kind of the way, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>if you remember the way that that's that era started

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<v Speaker 3>in twenty ten was, you know, pitching in defense and

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<v Speaker 3>a bunch of scrappy kind of take them off, the

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<v Speaker 3>junk junkie kind of players that not a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>people knew, with Buster ultimately being the centerpiece. And so

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<v Speaker 3>there's a strong belief that that can somehow happen again,

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<v Speaker 3>even in this new and different era. But yeah, they've

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<v Speaker 3>got some serious work ahead of them in the off season,

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<v Speaker 3>all right.

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<v Speaker 4>I have an idea who to blame. Four seam elevated fastballs.

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<v Speaker 4>That's what it is. That's their problem because they can't

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<v Speaker 4>hit them, and they keep swinging at them. That's what

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<v Speaker 4>they need to blame. I don't know fault that is,

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<v Speaker 4>but if you keep swinging at a pitch like the

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<v Speaker 4>Rangers the last year and a half or so, they

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<v Speaker 4>can't hit it up here, Pitchers keep throwing it to them,

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<v Speaker 4>they keep not hitting it, but they keep swinging at it.

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<v Speaker 4>So at some point, you know, I don't know how

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<v Speaker 4>to make the adjustment, but someone's gonna have to make

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<v Speaker 4>an adjustment.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and that's another guy who's getting a lot of strays,

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<v Speaker 3>is Pat Burrell, the hitting instructor. But I do think

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<v Speaker 3>that there's you know, and we hear this throughout baseball

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<v Speaker 3>and throughout different systems. You know that that there's you know,

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<v Speaker 3>certain things that are emphasized throughout form systems and certain

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<v Speaker 3>things aren't. And you kind of see it when players

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<v Speaker 3>get to the big leagues and have they really been

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<v Speaker 3>developed in the way they should be. I don't know,

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<v Speaker 3>that's that's way beyond my pay grade, but yeah, they can't.

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<v Speaker 3>They're not good at the plate. They they're awful against

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<v Speaker 3>left handers. They're it's just it's, yeah, it's it's not

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<v Speaker 3>been good.

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<v Speaker 1>No doubt. Hey, I wanted to ask you about the

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<v Speaker 1>part in the story where you're like, they look defeated.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you have any examples of that? Have players said

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<v Speaker 1>anything about that? You know, that's the one part where

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<v Speaker 1>you can be a team pretty much out of the

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<v Speaker 1>mix and still be hustling right and showing up for

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<v Speaker 1>a fan base that is showing up for you despite

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<v Speaker 1>a disappointing season. To me, that's the part where I'm like,

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<v Speaker 1>is there a manager situation that can be handled here

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit differently? And I know in your article

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<v Speaker 1>you wrote like he's tried it all right, you're throwing

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<v Speaker 1>darts out of board, Be strict, be loose, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>just everything and it's not working. But what's going on

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<v Speaker 1>with a team that looks like they're not as into

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<v Speaker 1>it as some others?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, and the weird thing is, at the beginning of

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<v Speaker 3>the season, they were totally into it. They had pep

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<v Speaker 3>in the clubhouse, in the dugout, they were cohesive.

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<v Speaker 2>And I still think they're cohesive.

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<v Speaker 3>But this has been such a bad historically bad a

0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:05.199
<v Speaker 3>couple of weeks or two months that when things go wrong,

0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:08.240
<v Speaker 3>they it just looks like they're kind of giving up,

0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:10.920
<v Speaker 3>they're kind of defeated. I also think they they're tight,

0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:14.800
<v Speaker 3>and even Elliott Ramo said that a few weeks ago.

0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:15.559
<v Speaker 2>He said, I just.

0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:17.440
<v Speaker 3>Am out there trying not to make a mistake. Well,

0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:20.960
<v Speaker 3>I mean, that's the worst way to play any sport,

0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:24.800
<v Speaker 3>that's when you make mistakes, right, So I think there's

0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:28.360
<v Speaker 3>some mental stuff going on, and I think that it's

0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:31.720
<v Speaker 3>also I mean, you know, you see it with losing

0:12:31.760 --> 0:12:34.600
<v Speaker 3>teams when when when things are going bad and then

0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:38.360
<v Speaker 3>a game starts and something bad happens, they're just there's

0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:41.720
<v Speaker 3>not a lot of resiliency there. And I think we've

0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:44.080
<v Speaker 3>we've kind of seen that over these last few weeks

0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:47.160
<v Speaker 3>with the Giants, and I don't know that that is

0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:51.360
<v Speaker 3>Bob's fault or if it's just human nature that that

0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:55.280
<v Speaker 3>when things go bad that you just kind of are like,

0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:58.360
<v Speaker 3>oh my god, here we go again, especially with you know,

0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:02.960
<v Speaker 3>it's a relatively young team. There's some key veterans, but

0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:06.360
<v Speaker 3>but you know, there's a lot of them that haven't

0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:08.080
<v Speaker 3>had a lot of success. The weird one of the

0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:11.280
<v Speaker 3>weirdest things of the season is is Justin Verlander. I mean,

0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:15.720
<v Speaker 3>he's just been had the hardest luck, you know, ever

0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:21.400
<v Speaker 3>and just but he seems solid and seems like he

0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:26.440
<v Speaker 3>wants to keep pitching and hasn't been you know, blaming

0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:31.600
<v Speaker 3>anyone about his terrible record, and it's it's uh but

0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:34.080
<v Speaker 3>but yeah, it's just it's just been a weird season.

0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:36.880
<v Speaker 3>Someone asked me like, isn't this boring? And I'm like,

0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:41.920
<v Speaker 3>it's actually not boring at all. The past couple of

0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:44.920
<v Speaker 3>years with far ha Han was like a continuous loop

0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:47.760
<v Speaker 3>of boredom. This this has actually been interesting in how

0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:48.360
<v Speaker 3>bad it's been.

0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:51.680
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, you got lots to write about, but I gotta

0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:53.240
<v Speaker 4>say this. You want to know when it's not fun

0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:55.520
<v Speaker 4>for players when you're twenty fifth and run scored barely

0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:57.640
<v Speaker 4>for a game and you don't get a lot of hits.

0:13:58.040 --> 0:13:59.120
<v Speaker 5>That's when you don't have energy.

0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:00.480
<v Speaker 4>You show me a team that's weren't a lot of

0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:02.600
<v Speaker 4>runs and they're getting a lot of hits in guess

0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:05.800
<v Speaker 4>what Everyone's like, Yeah, you score four runs a game

0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:08.079
<v Speaker 4>and your twenty fifth in the league. Everyone's like, I

0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:09.480
<v Speaker 4>don't want to get up because I'm going to make

0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:11.400
<v Speaker 4>it out and uh da da da da da da.

0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:13.520
<v Speaker 4>So yeah, I understand it, but it's hard when you're

0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:14.280
<v Speaker 4>not scoring runs.

0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:17.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And on sun last Sunday, their last game of

0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:21.400
<v Speaker 3>their home stand, and then Monday in San Diego, they

0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:25.360
<v Speaker 3>scored runs and they were they showed great energy, they

0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:29.440
<v Speaker 3>did not look defeated, and they were not defeated. So yeah,

0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:31.560
<v Speaker 3>I mean it's all kind of a function, a function

0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:34.520
<v Speaker 3>of the game. But they've got you know, they've got

0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:38.520
<v Speaker 3>uh they've got two more games against the Padres. Then

0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:42.040
<v Speaker 3>they got to go to Milwaukee, the land of winners,

0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:44.120
<v Speaker 3>so you know they've got and then I.

0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:45.200
<v Speaker 2>Think they've got the Cubs.

0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:48.840
<v Speaker 3>They've got twice more with the Dodgers, so they've got

0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:52.080
<v Speaker 3>a lot of tough opponents coming up in these last

0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:55.200
<v Speaker 3>few weeks and we'll just kind of see what they're

0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:55.480
<v Speaker 3>made of.

0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:01.040
<v Speaker 1>And thanks for covering and bousally joining us on this.

0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:03.760
<v Speaker 1>It's good stuff. I really enjoy reading all of your work.

0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:05.600
<v Speaker 1>We appreciate the time.

0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:08.400
<v Speaker 2>Good to see you all right, Thanks for having me guys,