1
00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:06,600
Speaker 1: I'm Laurie Gottlieb. I'm the author of Maybe You Should

2
00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:09,360
Speaker 1: Talk to Someone, and I write the Dear Therapist advice

3
00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:10,480
Speaker 1: column for the Atlantic.

4
00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,040
Speaker 2: And I'm Guy Wench. I'm the author of Emotional First Aid,

5
00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:16,560
Speaker 2: and I write the Dear Guy advice column for Ted.

6
00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:19,200
Speaker 2: And this is Dear Therapists.

7
00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:22,600
Speaker 1: This week we're going to check in on a guest

8
00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,400
Speaker 1: from season two to hear how they're doing a year later.

9
00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:30,440
Speaker 2: First, a quick note Deo Therapists is for informational purposes only,

10
00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:33,879
Speaker 2: does not constitute medical or psychological advice, and is not

11
00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:37,400
Speaker 2: a substitute for professional health care advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

12
00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:40,640
Speaker 2: Always seek the advice of your physician, mental health professional,

13
00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:43,879
Speaker 2: or other qualified health provider with any questions you may

14
00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:47,760
Speaker 2: have regarding a medical or psychological condition. By submitting a letter,

15
00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:49,839
Speaker 2: you are agreeing to let iHeart Media use it in

16
00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,080
Speaker 2: part or in full, and we may edit it for

17
00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,800
Speaker 2: length and clarity. In the sessions you'll hear, all names

18
00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:57,040
Speaker 2: have been changed for the privacy of our guests.

19
00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:01,240
Speaker 1: So today we're hearing back from Hillary and her session

20
00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:05,240
Speaker 1: we called Hillary's shopping Addiction. Hillary was working toward becoming

21
00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:08,520
Speaker 1: a drug and alcohol counselor after a long history of

22
00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:13,680
Speaker 1: drug addiction that was now manifesting as a shopping addiction.

23
00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:16,640
Speaker 1: She had a lot of shame around this because of

24
00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,399
Speaker 1: the work she does. She felt like she should know better.

25
00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:22,959
Speaker 1: But as we know, this isn't about knowing. It's about

26
00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,160
Speaker 1: how to cope with the painful feelings and how we

27
00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,360
Speaker 1: numb them when we don't know how to cope.

28
00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:32,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, Hillary had a really, really traumatic past, and what

29
00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:36,319
Speaker 2: was interesting is that she had accomplished so much in

30
00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:39,360
Speaker 2: her life given the challenges she had to overcome, and

31
00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,479
Speaker 2: when she started to overcome them, which was much later

32
00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:43,400
Speaker 2: in life.

33
00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:48,440
Speaker 1: And because of all this, she was really struggling with relationships, friendships,

34
00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:53,760
Speaker 1: romantic relationships. She was seeing somebody, but it wasn't really

35
00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:57,400
Speaker 1: a solid relationship, and so we were really hoping that

36
00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:00,320
Speaker 1: we could also help her find more connection in her life.

37
00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:02,960
Speaker 1: So let's get a reminder of what was going on

38
00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:04,080
Speaker 1: last year.

39
00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,200
Speaker 3: I'm not sure when it all started, but I know

40
00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:11,639
Speaker 3: that recently, in the last couple of years, it's escalated

41
00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:16,880
Speaker 3: and it's become a real problem in my life, which

42
00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,840
Speaker 3: is ironic because I am an alcohol and drug counselor

43
00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,520
Speaker 3: and I've been in sobriety for nine years, so I

44
00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:30,400
Speaker 3: understand when something interferes in your life, it's probably an addiction.

45
00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:35,480
Speaker 3: In the last couple of years, I've been working on

46
00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:40,680
Speaker 3: my master's degree in counseling, and for the first time

47
00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:46,720
Speaker 3: in my life, I experienced physical symptoms of anxiety, and

48
00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:51,800
Speaker 3: to alleviate those physical symptoms, it felt really good to

49
00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:55,880
Speaker 3: fill up my cart and buy something. And I didn't

50
00:02:56,160 --> 00:03:00,200
Speaker 3: realize that that's what was happening until I was six

51
00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:01,400
Speaker 3: thousand dollars in debt.

52
00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:10,240
Speaker 2: You're listening to dea therapists. We'll be back after a

53
00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:25,240
Speaker 2: short break. Now let's hear how things are going for

54
00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:26,560
Speaker 2: Hillary a year later.

55
00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:32,399
Speaker 3: Hi, this is Hillary. I'm checking back in with you

56
00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:36,560
Speaker 3: and your listeners. Over the past year, there's been a

57
00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,600
Speaker 3: lot of changes. I was taking care of my elderly

58
00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:44,840
Speaker 3: mother and she was drinking pretty heavily, and she was

59
00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:49,560
Speaker 3: ninety one years old, and she passed away in July

60
00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:53,920
Speaker 3: of last year. And then two months later, my older

61
00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:58,520
Speaker 3: sister died and she had many health problems, including a

62
00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:04,080
Speaker 3: addiction to opiate Yes, so I've been struggling with mourning

63
00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:10,440
Speaker 3: their losses. I have connected with a group online for that.

64
00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,520
Speaker 3: As far as the other things go, I'm doing well

65
00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,040
Speaker 3: at work. I am a licensed to alcohol and drug

66
00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,440
Speaker 3: counselor in my state and went from part time to

67
00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:27,080
Speaker 3: full time. I've chosen to put my master's program on hold.

68
00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:31,719
Speaker 3: I intend to return at spring of twenty twenty three.

69
00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:36,040
Speaker 3: I just have a few credits to finish and then

70
00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:40,880
Speaker 3: I'll have that degree. As far as the shopping addiction,

71
00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:45,640
Speaker 3: I kind of fell off on that. I also had

72
00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,000
Speaker 3: made a decision and I'm not sure what it had

73
00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,880
Speaker 3: to do with the death of my family members, but

74
00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:55,840
Speaker 3: I quit go into my twelve step support group meetings. However,

75
00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:58,120
Speaker 3: that's changed this week. As a matter of fact, I've

76
00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,680
Speaker 3: found a new meeting, really good one. And the thing

77
00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:07,240
Speaker 3: about shopping addiction that I've realized is it's very very

78
00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:12,440
Speaker 3: similar to a drug addiction or alcoholism in that the

79
00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:19,520
Speaker 3: endorphins are released during a time when you press that button.

80
00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:23,160
Speaker 3: My long term focus has been on a trip to Scotland,

81
00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:25,720
Speaker 3: which i'd like to do, and I'll be sixty this year,

82
00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:28,640
Speaker 3: so I really would like to accomplish that in the

83
00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:33,000
Speaker 3: next five years. So I'm actually moving around one day

84
00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:36,680
Speaker 3: at a time and trying to stay focused. I really

85
00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,960
Speaker 3: enjoy my work. I help women and children. I continue

86
00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:45,480
Speaker 3: to see a therapist. I've chosen to stay on an antidepressant,

87
00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:50,080
Speaker 3: which is helping as far as the shopping goes. I

88
00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,719
Speaker 3: think I do need to get involved with some extra help.

89
00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:56,719
Speaker 3: I've been really isolating a lot when I'm not working,

90
00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:01,320
Speaker 3: so that just adds to the triggers of wanting to

91
00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:07,640
Speaker 3: get something in the air. Quote get something. Appreciate what

92
00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:12,640
Speaker 3: you did for me a year ago, and just so

93
00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,680
Speaker 3: you and your listeners know, I'm not giving up on

94
00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:19,760
Speaker 3: becoming healthier. Thanks a lot.

95
00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:26,839
Speaker 2: So first I want to offer my condolences to Hillary.

96
00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:30,680
Speaker 2: Those are two significant losses within a year, both her

97
00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:34,560
Speaker 2: mother and her sister, and her sister dying of opiates

98
00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:36,640
Speaker 2: when she had that addiction. So this has been a

99
00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:38,800
Speaker 2: really difficult year for her, and I think we need

100
00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:42,040
Speaker 2: to take the rest of what she said in that context,

101
00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:43,880
Speaker 2: that this is a ear of grieving and recovery.

102
00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:49,840
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and I think what she's dealing with is intergenerational

103
00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:53,839
Speaker 1: trauma where there's that history of addiction in the family

104
00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:55,840
Speaker 1: and she wants to be the person to stop it.

105
00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:57,920
Speaker 1: And when we think about what a difficult year she's

106
00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:01,880
Speaker 1: had in addition to her path, which was incredibly challenging.

107
00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:07,599
Speaker 1: I really admire that she is working so hard to

108
00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:12,240
Speaker 1: keep going and make things better. So when we talked

109
00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,280
Speaker 1: to her last year, she was having trouble finishing her

110
00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:18,240
Speaker 1: master's program, and yet she's going back and she's doing it,

111
00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:21,760
Speaker 1: and even though she struggles with the shopping addiction, she's

112
00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,840
Speaker 1: going to twelve step and she's setting goals for herself,

113
00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:28,280
Speaker 1: and she's doing work that gives her meaning of helping others.

114
00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:31,880
Speaker 1: And I think that it's kind of amazing that she's

115
00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:35,080
Speaker 1: able to do all of that, given how much challenge

116
00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:36,880
Speaker 1: there has been, and I think it really speaks to

117
00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:37,680
Speaker 1: her strengths.

118
00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:40,960
Speaker 2: The fact that she went to full time, also because

119
00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:42,920
Speaker 2: the job she does is not an easy job, right,

120
00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,320
Speaker 2: It's an experience she's been through with addiction, and obviously

121
00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,080
Speaker 2: with the shopping addiction, she's still struggling. So doing that

122
00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:50,840
Speaker 2: full time is really admirable and it also I'm sure

123
00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:56,600
Speaker 2: helps her finances. The issue with isolating herself is that

124
00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:01,440
Speaker 2: addiction often thrives on loneliness, and it's that is really

125
00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:04,640
Speaker 2: necessary when you're healing from addiction. The two are really

126
00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,280
Speaker 2: related in so many ways, and so as she wants

127
00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:10,680
Speaker 2: to help herself and move forward, and I hope at

128
00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:12,840
Speaker 2: this point she can move a little bit past the

129
00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:17,680
Speaker 2: grieving to continue to become healthier. But that I think

130
00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:22,520
Speaker 2: by definition, means getting more connected. You have to focus

131
00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:25,520
Speaker 2: on your relationships. The fact that she's setting long term

132
00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:28,560
Speaker 2: goals I think is really important. But if, for example,

133
00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:31,760
Speaker 2: Scotland is a long term goal, then the long term

134
00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,400
Speaker 2: goal might be go to Scotland with a friend, and

135
00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:37,360
Speaker 2: then there are two long term goals and you can

136
00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:41,280
Speaker 2: accomplish both, hopefully in the same full soup in a

137
00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:42,000
Speaker 2: few years time.

138
00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,560
Speaker 1: I remember last year, we gave her an exercise to

139
00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:47,840
Speaker 1: write down things that would bring her pleasure, and she

140
00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:49,880
Speaker 1: came up with this entire list.

141
00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:50,800
Speaker 2: It was amazing.

142
00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:54,200
Speaker 1: It was amazing, and I didn't hear a lot of that.

143
00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:56,960
Speaker 1: I heard her having goals for those kinds of things,

144
00:08:57,720 --> 00:08:59,560
Speaker 1: and so I hope she will follow up on that,

145
00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:03,360
Speaker 1: but also include that connection piece in terms of what

146
00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:05,280
Speaker 1: is going to bring her joy and can she do

147
00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,440
Speaker 1: some of these things with people. So yeah, she needs

148
00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:13,680
Speaker 1: to stop isolating. I think she's definitely a very strong person.

149
00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,280
Speaker 1: I love what she said at the end about that

150
00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:20,040
Speaker 1: she's not giving up on becoming healthier, and we are

151
00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:22,320
Speaker 1: here rooting for her the whole way.

152
00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:28,640
Speaker 2: Next week, we're in session with Jordan, who wants to

153
00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:32,320
Speaker 2: understand how seeing his parents dysfunctional relationship as a child

154
00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:36,080
Speaker 2: might have contributed to his own marriage ending after only

155
00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:37,079
Speaker 2: two years.

156
00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:42,280
Speaker 4: There were red flags that I ignored. Here's this beautiful

157
00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:46,000
Speaker 4: woman that I get along with extremely well, and we

158
00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,000
Speaker 4: just seem perfect for each other, and we moved in

159
00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:52,120
Speaker 4: with each other, and it was within a couple months

160
00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:55,560
Speaker 4: I started to realize, wait a second, this just doesn't

161
00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:56,319
Speaker 4: seem normal.

162
00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,800
Speaker 1: If you're enjoying our podcast, don't forget to subscribe for

163
00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,760
Speaker 1: fe so that you don't miss any episodes, and please

164
00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:05,560
Speaker 1: help support Dear Therapists by telling your friends about it

165
00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:09,000
Speaker 1: and leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. Your reviews really

166
00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:10,240
Speaker 1: help people to find the show.

167
00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:13,360
Speaker 2: If you have a dilemma you'd like to discuss with us,

168
00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:18,760
Speaker 2: email us at Laurie and Guy at iHeartMedia dot com.

169
00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:23,080
Speaker 2: Our executive producer is Noel Brown. We're produced and edited

170
00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:28,400
Speaker 2: by Josh Fisher, additional editing support by Helena Rosen, John Washington,

171
00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:33,599
Speaker 2: and Zachary Fisher. Our interns are Ben Bernstein, Emily Gutierrez

172
00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:37,600
Speaker 2: and Silver Lifton. And special thanks to our podcast fairy

173
00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,720
Speaker 2: Godmother Katie Curic. We can't wait to see you at

174
00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:50,680
Speaker 2: our next session. Dear Therapist is a production of iHeartRadio