WEBVTT - The Sun Always Rises 0:00:11.800 --> 0:00:14.319 Good morning, peep Sena. Welcome to bokay f Daily with 0:00:14.480 --> 0:00:19.079 Meet your Girl Danielle Moody, recording from the Home Bunker. Folks, 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:25.160 there are times when I literally I am so consumed 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:33.440 with so many feelings about the last seven or eight 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:40.000 years and what we are all living with, working with, 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:45.440 dealing with, how we are all managing to continue to 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:52.480 produce and work through trauma after tragedy after trauma after 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:59.040 tragedy for the last eight years. I don't think that 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:06.600 we do enough in terms of really asking ourselves are 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:12.319 we okay? Really asking our friends and our family, how 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:16.880 are you really doing? And so I found myself today 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:20.840 as I was sitting down for this interview with my 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:25.320 friend Jennifer Tobb. You guys know, she's come on, we'll 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:27.520 gay off. She's a friend of the show, and she's 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:29.759 the author of the book Big Dirty Money, and she 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:33.399 does white collar crime. And I've had her on and 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:37.000 to talk about, you know, so many of Donald Trump's crimes, 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:40.680 and you know, and other wealthy entities and capitalism and 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:43.880 all of these things. That's not the conversation we get 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:48.720 into today. It's the first time that jen and I 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:53.080 are talking since the New year, and both of us 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:59.440 found ourselves in a really deeply reflective and just introspective place. 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:05.880 So if you are out on a walk and listening 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:10.280 to this, if you are home, grab a cup of tea, 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:15.480 a cup of coffee, and just settle into a conversation 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:22.200 about how the fuck are we really doing? You know, 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:24.679 I know it's supposed to be New Year, New me, 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:30.040 calendars change, and yet things don't feel different. And if 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:34.079 they do feel different, in a lot of respects outwardly 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:39.000 around the world, it feels worse. So we're going to 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:42.920 get real and we're going to unpack in a way 0:02:42.919 --> 0:02:47.160 that I don't usually use woke f to do so, 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:53.160 but today it feels necessary, So join us. Coming up next, 0:02:53.760 --> 0:03:00.440 my conversation with author, podcaster, and professor and all around 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:07.800 bad ass Jennifer tub Folks, I am so happy to 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:13.079 welcome back to the show my friend Jennifer tub who. 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:16.880 This is our first show together on woke af since 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:20.480 since the New Year, So happy New Year to you. 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:23.480 You guys know Jen She is the author of Big 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:28.160 Dirty Money, The Shocking Injustice and Unseen Cost of White 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:31.959 Collar Crime. She's also a fellow nerd Avenger. She's also 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:36.560 the host of Booked Up with Jen Tobbs. So if 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:41.160 you want to be in a good podcast book club, 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:46.480 check out her podcast and Jen I will let you 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:51.040 plug it when we rap at the end. But you know, 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:54.200 I want to start off by asking you just what 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:58.320 seems like a relatively easy question, but I find it 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:01.760 to be more and more complex as time goes by, 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:06.840 which is, how are you doing? Right? Like, there's so 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:10.680 much that goes into our thinking of this flipping of 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:16.120 the calendar, the shifting of the year, these grandiose plans, 0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:22.479 these resolutions. I you know, and yet it seems to 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:25.440 be the same old shit but with a different number 0:04:25.480 --> 0:04:28.920 attached to it. So I genuinely, you know, my friend, 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:32.640 how are you doing? I'm so glad you asked that, 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:35.760 because it should be a simple question, right there's a 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:38.520 for the non friend, you're like, I'm fine or I'm 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:41.200 having a hard time or whatever. For a real friend, 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:44.880 that's a hard question because you've got to be honest 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:48.520 and not superficial. And I don't know how I am, 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:54.080 Like I seem to be outwardly accomplishing a lot of 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:57.000 the goals I want to accomplish my relationships with friend 0:04:57.040 --> 0:05:00.960 and friends and family are good. I feel like my 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:04.200 mental health is in a reasonably good space. I feel 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:11.680 healthy otherwise, And yet there's this part of me that's like, yeah, 0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:14.960 I'm not I'm not fooled by this, like the real 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:17.440 may It's kind of like I say, I see I say, 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:20.040 you're moving around. I see you walking around, But are 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:22.840 you really attending to the deeper stuff? And I think 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:26.360 the answer to that is no, that is no, because 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:32.080 we have been through so much since twenty fifteen. Our 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:35.000 world has been turned upside down. Some things are good. 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:37.560 I probably would not have met you if we had 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:40.880 not all moved over into so much of these zoom 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:42.920 spaces and so on. And you know, we could go 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:45.720 on and that, but you know, that's water under the 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:48.200 bridge now we all we have the relationships we have, 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:51.599 we have the bad stuff we have. But I think 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:55.120 the deeper I think it's time for some you know, 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:59.400 turning things over in some deeper understanding of how I'm doing, 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:02.919 how the world is doing, and how and how to 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:09.320 move forward into the next period of my life. You know, 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:13.640 I am a full disclosure. I just finished therapy. As 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:18.240 I come to turn on the mic to be in 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:20.960 conversation with you, and I realized now that that was 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:26.040 like the perfect thing to do because I'm having similar 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:33.800 deeply introspective moments and times when I because when I 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:38.039 pull back, Jen, and I realize, my god, we've been 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:41.640 through a lot in you know, been through a lot 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:44.640 where folks, you know, before we turn hit and hit record, 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:48.040 we're like, twenty fifteen, what's that been? Seven eight years? 0:06:48.120 --> 0:06:50.520 Like what? Like what are we talking about in terms 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:54.680 of like a time frame? Because you know, jokingly, I 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:58.800 will say often time is a construct, and it truly is, 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:01.920 but that we've been living inside of this weird wormhole 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:06.440 and the idea that we've had to continue to produce 0:07:06.680 --> 0:07:11.119 because that's what capitalism requires during this time of great 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:16.640 upheaval and strife and upending of systems and worlds that 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:21.080 we have been indoctrinated into participating in in a certain 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:24.400 type of way that when I pull back just a 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:28.760 little bit from the doing and the producing gem, I'm like, 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:31.640 how the fuck are we all getting off the couch 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:35.720 every day? Like how are we all? And were we 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:40.680 all are in a different state and place of you know, 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:43.320 in the In twenty twenty one, The New York Times 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:46.840 referred to it as languishing. That's not it, because it 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:49.600 isn't for me. It isn't this sense of languishing, this 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:54.360 this kind of it is just this. I didn't know 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:58.520 that the upheaval would feel like this. I didn't know 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:01.920 that I would still have to be doing the normal, 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:07.280 regular shit as the world around us is falling apart. 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:12.400 It's funny, you know, as we were talking, I'm thinking about, well, 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:17.520 when did this begin? And I'm thinking it goes fifteen 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:21.040 years with a financial crash of twenty eight for me, 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:27.160 because that was a huge awakening, a huge, huge political 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:31.920 and philosophical awakening for me, and that I always believed 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:37.520 if stuff went down and it was really bad, the 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:41.960 ordinary people would not be left to you know, millions 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:44.280 of families kicked out on the street everything that went 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:47.520 down then, and that's what happened. And I also believed, 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:49.959 you know, oh my god, there's this reckoning. Look looks like, 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:53.360 you know, having too much wealth in the hands of 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:57.000 people who can't spend in under chasing an investment. I 0:08:57.000 --> 0:08:59.520 guess we're going to understand that that's a bad part 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:02.680 of capital, and we'll take the good stuff, some aspects 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:05.720 of markets, but we'll also take the good stuffs around, 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:09.280 you know, more socialism in terms of let's have government 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:11.000 do some things for people. Like I thought we were 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:15.160 going to get a better balance, and instead that's not 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:19.400 what went down. And I think it was, like I 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:24.080 think what happened then at that time, we are still 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:29.640 feeling the shock waves of that. Honestly globally too, because 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:32.920 you know, you get, I mean, it was already happening 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:37.040 in the nineties, the return of you know, neo fascism 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:39.439 or the turn of fashionism, the form of neo fascism 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:42.800 in Europe. But I get the sense set in the US, 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:50.319 the ability to pin the economic problems on the usual suspects. 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:53.480 Ye starts happening then, And so as much as we 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:58.600 can mock economic anxiety, that economic anxiety was exploited and 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:00.640 turned around and every I think, you know, the Tea 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:04.240 Party came out in two thousand and nine, you look 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:08.120 at all the stuff that went down. Instead of taking 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:12.240 that opportunity at the end of the Bush era, an 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:16.720 early Obama era, to say let's help everybody out, We're 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:21.599 all in this together, and let's rethink things, it didn't 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:24.560 go in that direction. And some you know, and I 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:28.720 feel like the same thing continues to happen. The difference, 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:31.840 of course, is during COVID it was so much more 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:35.480 of an immediate shock to the economic system that everybody 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:38.520 and also because it was a white Republican president, everyone 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:41.360 was fine throwing money at the problem. Right. I don't 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:45.160 think Barack Obama got the support that he needed in 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:47.199 terms of the stimulus. There was a lot that one 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:50.040 went down in two thousand and nine that set the 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:54.640 table for getting someone like Donald Trump in place. And 0:10:54.679 --> 0:11:00.319 then the effect of where we are now still and 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:02.959 the fact that we have these insurrectionists in Congress on 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:05.680 the Homeland Security Committee, the fact that we've got this 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:10.439 complete faith, bigger faith than Donald Trump, who is not 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:13.240 just seated in Congress, but they're giving him committee assignments. 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:15.040 I don't even know who the hell he is. Look, 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:18.000 I'm sitting here going you know, for all the stories 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:21.600 we use, stories, all the fear people used to have 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:24.079 and say like, well, if such and such a happens, 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:29.160 then democracy is over. I mean, people, we gotta how 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:31.800 can this even be happening? Like and why? Okay, now 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:35.319 I'm gonna rant, why the fuck is the what the 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:37.400 what the the news should be doing right now, what 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:40.000 journalists should be doing. There should be two kinds of stories. 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:43.040 One story should be, Hey, American people, there are thousands 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:45.599 of dollars in rebates and tax credits available for you 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:48.080 if you go green. Here's how you do it. Because 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:51.320 my friends don't even know. All people know is there's 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:54.720 some stupid culture war between a gas stove versus an 0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:58.200 induction top stove. How about talking about, Hey, you are 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:00.560 going to renovate your house, or you have a crappy 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:02.360 old stove, you can get a free one and free 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:05.040 labor if you do this. Why aren't those the news stories? 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:06.840 And the other news stories should be what the fuck 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:09.800 is going on with the Republicans. They've got a guy 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:13.240 involved in a Ponzi scheme, complete liar, and they're putting 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:16.120 among committees. There should not be a single story about 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:19.319 Joe Biden's documents in the newspaper because I don't give 0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:22.720 a fuck, and nobody does, and I don't know what 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:25.600 is going on anyway. I'm sorry nobody to hear any 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:29.120 rantings I'm not doing. Okay, no, but but that is 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:32.520 the is the That's not just your rant, that is 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:37.720 the rant of anyone who is in touch with reality 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:42.120 and what's happening not only with us internally, as we 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:46.280 continue to figure out how to make sense out of 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:49.240 a world that we realize was built on a lie. 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:54.520 You know, I said the other day, and I forget 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:56.079 who I said it to you, but I said, you know, 0:12:56.360 --> 0:12:59.200 the funny thing about K through twelve education and public 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:03.360 public school education is that it's built on a lie 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:06.920 about who America is and about who Americans are and 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:10.120 who we are to the world. And you spend your 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:12.880 whole adult life if in fact, you are in tuned 0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:16.640 and you're thinking to yourself with that nagging suspicion that 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:19.720 something just doesn't seem right, This story just doesn't come 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:22.560 together completely in the way that it should. And if 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:25.920 you are intellectually curious in that way, in nimble, then 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:27.720 you're going to start to challenge the things that you 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:31.160 are learned. And so what then adulthood becomes is this 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:34.760 entire unlearning of everything that you were taught for the 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:39.880 first eighteen years of your life, right, And that becomes 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:43.840 something that is incredibly painful, because one, you want to 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:46.360 believe that you were smarter than that, and then two 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:49.040 you're like, what do I do with this information because 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:51.959 now that I have it, and the system seems so big, 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:56.720 and the roofs seems so huge, and the Ponzi scheme 0:13:57.000 --> 0:14:00.800 is not just in one area, it's in all systems 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:05.520 that is built to uphold the uber wealthy, the uber 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:11.520 white right, the faux Christian nationalists, and everybody else be damned. 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:16.400 COVID allowed us to see the real truth behind the 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:20.200 curtain and the lie right, because there was no way 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:23.360 to avoid why you were why you wanted to open 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:26.880 up a state when you realize the who the vaccine was, 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:32.200 I mean, who who was being most harmed? And you 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:35.160 say liberate this place and liberate that place, because you 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:37.760 could give a fuck if the people that are dying 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:41.280 are the essential workers that we say are essential, but 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:45.160 we don't essentially pay them a fucking living wage. Right, 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:47.320 But we were all able to stay shuttered in our 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:49.960 home so that black and brown people and immigrants and 0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:54.080 low income workers could be out there literally battling a 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:59.320 fucking virus, right, so that we could all stay safe inside. 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:03.800 So who did we realize mattered and who didn't? And 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:06.400 I think that there is something that becomes gen like 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:18.800 really existential about that reality it's it's it's hard to 0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:21.520 look at yourself in the mirror when you think about it, 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:25.040 because you know, I'm part of a system that I 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:28.560 did go back to work at a school, but I 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:32.320 was wearing a mask and I wasn't there all the time, 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:34.800 and in fact, we dropped the mask requirement. I guess 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:36.560 it was last spring and it was this past fall. 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:40.160 That's what I got COVID for the first time. But 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:42.479 by the time I got it, I had been vaccinated 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:46.840 four times yep, and I felt safer and I got 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:50.880 the pax lav it. I wasn't scared because I'm an asthmatic, 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:53.640 you know, and I'm scared, like holy shit, because I'm 0:15:53.680 --> 0:15:56.800 the person who gets every you know, you name an 0:15:56.840 --> 0:16:00.760 upper respiratory infection. It's like, hey, there's gen lungs. So 0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:08.080 I I was scared. I want to go back, though, too, 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:13.160 to like this whole Okay, where are where are the 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:15.600 news stories? Like you know how people are going, Oh 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:17.480 you have you know all these people I can name 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:19.360 them who come on the morning shows and TV and 0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:20.800 they say, look, you go to the store and this 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:22.880 cost more, and yeah, I can you know. I was 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:24.960 just at the grocery store today and I was surprised. 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:26.720 I hope a few bags I had and how much 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:31.080 money it was? Okay, that's absolutely true. But you know 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:33.320 how much money I could save if I replace the 0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:35.080 old stove we put in this house. We bought a 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:38.600 really old house and what was it twenty two thousand 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:42.040 and six and it's a gas stove and it's gonna 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:44.280 cost I can get an eight hundred dollars what rebate 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:47.360 or credit plus labor? I could get that thing taking 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:51.120 out something else put in. It's safer for all of us. 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:55.040 That's a lot of that's a lot of trips to 0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:58.040 the grocery store, and it stimulates the economy. That means 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:00.480 someone local here is going to do it. That means 0:17:00.480 --> 0:17:03.880 I'm going to shop in a local appliance store. Well, 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:06.800 I want them to walk around an appliance store and 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:09.520 every fucking news show and say, this is nice, what 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:11.360 does it do? How fast does it work? What would 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:13.760 it cost? That would be free? And here's why, because 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:15.680 if you make this amount of money this and then 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:17.680 I want them to go to the home improvement store. 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:20.840 I'm not making this stuff up, Danielle. It's real, and 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:23.720 the word isn't getting out there. And I don't know 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:25.800 whose fault it is that the word isn't getting out there, 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:27.960 but I think someone needs to be pitching these stories. 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:30.640 Maybe I should pitch them. I mean, I could talk 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:32.800 to people I know who are on television, but this 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:36.880 should be everywhere. Why is it only a story if 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:40.240 someone's doing something bad instead of a huge multi billion 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:43.760 dollars worth of savings for their American people. Why isn't 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:45.840 that a story? Why is it only a story if 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:49.400 I'm paying more on milk or pay more for gas, which, 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:51.159 by the way, they got the gas prices down. You 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:55.080 don't hear about that, no, because that is not what 0:17:56.520 --> 0:18:02.840 leads in newsrooms. Outrage does. And once we decided that 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:07.080 journalism was dead and that we were all going to 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:12.919 just put out whatever was going to be clickbait, then 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:16.840 telling those good stories, who is that good for? Because 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:20.639 I'll tell you that I will never forget this. Walking 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:25.480 the halls of MSNBC. Trump is elected. This is pre pandemic. 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:31.760 And I heard a producer say he's bad for the country, 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:35.639 but he's good for business. You know what's good for business? 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:42.000 The advertisements though for all these appliances, or maybe they're 0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:45.200 just not ready. Maybe the manufacturers aren't ready to advertise 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:49.720 about like, fuck, aren't these what I understand you come 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:54.080 from a place of thinking that people don't share good 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:58.600 information because they don't know. And what I've come to 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:02.600 realize is that they do know. They absolutely do know, 0:19:02.720 --> 0:19:09.000 and they don't give a fuck. Oh yeah, that is 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:15.400 the reality. It isn't just like I wish that people understood. 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:17.680 I wish that the people that were sitting in these 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:21.040 c suites and making decisions about what the segments should 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:24.080 be and who goes on air and what is delivered, 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:27.240 I wish that you know, they just knew. No, they 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:32.680 do jen, they just don't care, right, because the reality 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:39.240 is is that if everyone was doing well, then there 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:44.000 wouldn't really be the bottom of the pyramid, would there? Right? 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:51.440 And you need to have an oppressed, marginalized, just sick 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:58.480 enough class of people so that the uber rich can 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:02.239 live the way that they want. So you have to 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:07.840 deny education, you have to deny access, and then you 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:10.240 have to make it somebody else's fault so that they 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:14.520 don't realize who's really pulling the strings. So the whole obedience, 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:17.639 so someone's doing the jobs and paying up through the 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:23.720 pyramid is that you're is that what you're getting at? Well? Yeah, 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:27.080 And you know it's interesting that just Larry Summers when 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:31.680 he was doing some kind of television interview from did 0:20:31.720 --> 0:20:34.440 you see this from a beach resort? Island resort, they're 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:36.760 like palm trees behind him and he's saying, you know, 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:39.160 you know, you know the trade off people often talk 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:42.199 about between employment and inflation. He's like, yeah, we've got 0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:44.159 too many people employed, just the way it is. And 0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:47.800 he's sitting there like with the palm trees, and I 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:51.280 was like, you know, you don't even know how to 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:56.399 manage that image, and really and if that's but by 0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:59.720 the way, if that's going to be the orthodoxy, and 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:02.520 that you're going to have to have a certain level 0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:06.040 of unemployment, then there should be a better fucking safety net. 0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:11.160 But you don't want a safety net because you believe 0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:15.400 that most people who don't look like you, don't love 0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:20.960 like you, don't share the same fucking nasty, immoral values 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:27.000 are undeserving. If everything is about a safety net, and 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:31.639 you believe, through some mythical form of thinking, that you've 0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:35.320 pulled yourself up from your bootstraps, which is a fucking lie, 0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:39.040 and you believe that you were somehow anointed, which is 0:21:39.080 --> 0:21:41.240 what we think about the royal family and what they've 0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:44.840 told us for generations. Right. If you think all of 0:21:44.840 --> 0:21:49.880 these things right, right, then why would you provide anything 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:53.960 to these other people? Right? Why don't they just do 0:21:54.119 --> 0:22:01.000 for themselves the way people like people thinking that way? No, okay, 0:22:01.119 --> 0:22:03.800 because I never thought that way. It don't Maybe my 0:22:03.880 --> 0:22:06.600 parents didn't teach me that, but I never thought entit. 0:22:06.720 --> 0:22:12.320 I never felt entitled, and I felt empathy always and 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:15.480 privilege like but I will tell you, as somebody who 0:22:15.520 --> 0:22:19.879 grew up middle class, and I am a child of 0:22:19.960 --> 0:22:24.200 immigrants who left Jamaica and came to the United States 0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:29.160 to build a better life for their family, that I, 0:22:29.200 --> 0:22:34.240 when I was very young, was fed the lie about 0:22:34.400 --> 0:22:40.400 black Americans that had been absorbed and spread around because 0:22:40.520 --> 0:22:46.440 everyone participates in white supremacy, and so the idea was like, well, 0:22:46.560 --> 0:22:49.760 look at us, we came from Jamaica. We were able 0:22:49.800 --> 0:22:53.159 to buy homes and build lives and businesses and this, 0:22:53.200 --> 0:22:56.320 that and the other thing. Why can't those black Americans 0:22:57.359 --> 0:23:00.879 do that? And it was understand it, but it wasn't 0:23:00.920 --> 0:23:05.640 until like then I would learn and understand and challenge 0:23:05.720 --> 0:23:10.320 this very stupid idea that I was that was being 0:23:10.359 --> 0:23:14.600 taught to me by virtue of my family, but also 0:23:14.880 --> 0:23:19.399 through an education system and society that was reinforcing that 0:23:19.560 --> 0:23:22.560 same lie. When I say understandable, I don't mean accurate. 0:23:22.640 --> 0:23:24.840 I mean the way I relate to that is I 0:23:24.880 --> 0:23:27.960 had so much internalized patriot. Yeah. Yeah, because I was 0:23:28.080 --> 0:23:31.560 luckily one of the kind of kids who learned easily, 0:23:32.280 --> 0:23:35.119 who was a good people pleaser, who did well in school. 0:23:35.640 --> 0:23:38.280 And I became and I was. I went to partially 0:23:38.359 --> 0:23:40.280 with all girls middle school, and then the upper school 0:23:40.400 --> 0:23:42.840 was co ed, and I and everyone would say, you know, 0:23:42.960 --> 0:23:45.639 girls don't talk in class, and I was like, well, 0:23:45.640 --> 0:23:48.200 that's our unfucking fault. I don't believe this. They should 0:23:48.200 --> 0:23:52.600 just do it because I'm an annoying talker, interrupter, whatever. 0:23:53.160 --> 0:23:56.440 And I believed until my and through my twenties that 0:23:57.160 --> 0:23:59.800 you know, women could get as far as men, because 0:23:59.800 --> 0:24:03.159 I was always getting as far, if not farther, and 0:24:03.200 --> 0:24:07.120 men respected me and blah blah blah. And I don't 0:24:07.119 --> 0:24:11.120 know what the moment I realized suddenly I'm I kind 0:24:11.119 --> 0:24:12.960 of dude. But without getting into all of it, is 0:24:12.960 --> 0:24:14.600 that there was no sweet spot all of a sudden, 0:24:14.600 --> 0:24:17.560 like everything worked fine for me until you know, I 0:24:17.600 --> 0:24:19.399 think I got to that glass ceiling. And then I 0:24:19.440 --> 0:24:21.280 also looked around and said, I don't know if i'd 0:24:21.280 --> 0:24:23.560 like these values. I don't know if i'd like to 0:24:23.600 --> 0:24:26.240 relate to everybody in this way. And I don't. And 0:24:26.320 --> 0:24:30.800 I see how cutthroat it can be. There's a lot 0:24:30.800 --> 0:24:33.760 of stuff. But if I can internalize all of that, 0:24:33.800 --> 0:24:36.159 I can see why you would too, if those are 0:24:36.160 --> 0:24:38.320 the stories you're told. And I was definitely told those 0:24:38.320 --> 0:24:44.760 stories that, oh, women make these choices. Somebody asked me 0:24:44.800 --> 0:24:47.800 the other day It's like a really valid question, and 0:24:47.840 --> 0:24:50.040 they're like, you know, I'm just so interested to talk 0:24:50.080 --> 0:24:53.840 to you about your career path because like you're an 0:24:53.880 --> 0:25:00.399 out black queer woman and you've been so successful, and 0:25:00.480 --> 0:25:04.400 I'm just like confused about how that has happened. Like 0:25:04.440 --> 0:25:07.480 what have you faced and like what are like what 0:25:07.760 --> 0:25:10.960 are the challenges you know that you have faced? And 0:25:11.000 --> 0:25:14.840 I said, UM, that is a really good question, and 0:25:14.920 --> 0:25:18.720 I'm going to be really honest with you. I've had 0:25:18.960 --> 0:25:23.560 like very minimal hardship in terms of things that I 0:25:23.600 --> 0:25:32.760 have faced because any microaggressions, Um, around my race, uh 0:25:32.760 --> 0:25:36.439 and gender that I have faced I have readily pushed 0:25:36.440 --> 0:25:40.600 back on because I had a certain amount of privilege 0:25:40.600 --> 0:25:46.160 that afforded me the ability to do that, right. Um, 0:25:46.200 --> 0:25:49.399 and so you had the same from your family or 0:25:49.440 --> 0:25:52.959