1 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:14,319 Speaker 1: Good morning, peep Sena. Welcome to bokay f Daily with 2 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody, recording from the Home Bunker. Folks, 3 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: there are times when I literally I am so consumed 4 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: with so many feelings about the last seven or eight 5 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: years and what we are all living with, working with, 6 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: dealing with, how we are all managing to continue to 7 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:52,480 Speaker 1: produce and work through trauma after tragedy after trauma after 8 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: tragedy for the last eight years. I don't think that 9 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: we do enough in terms of really asking ourselves are 10 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 1: we okay? Really asking our friends and our family, how 11 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: are you really doing? And so I found myself today 12 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: as I was sitting down for this interview with my 13 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:25,320 Speaker 1: friend Jennifer Tobb. You guys know, she's come on, we'll 14 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: gay off. She's a friend of the show, and she's 15 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:29,759 Speaker 1: the author of the book Big Dirty Money, and she 16 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 1: does white collar crime. And I've had her on and 17 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: to talk about, you know, so many of Donald Trump's crimes, 18 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 1: and you know, and other wealthy entities and capitalism and 19 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: all of these things. That's not the conversation we get 20 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: into today. It's the first time that jen and I 21 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: are talking since the New year, and both of us 22 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: found ourselves in a really deeply reflective and just introspective place. 23 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: So if you are out on a walk and listening 24 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: to this, if you are home, grab a cup of tea, 25 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: a cup of coffee, and just settle into a conversation 26 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: about how the fuck are we really doing? You know, 27 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:24,679 Speaker 1: I know it's supposed to be New Year, New me, 28 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: calendars change, and yet things don't feel different. And if 29 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:34,079 Speaker 1: they do feel different, in a lot of respects outwardly 30 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: around the world, it feels worse. So we're going to 31 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 1: get real and we're going to unpack in a way 32 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: that I don't usually use woke f to do so, 33 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: but today it feels necessary, So join us. Coming up next, 34 00:02:53,760 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: my conversation with author, podcaster, and professor and all around 35 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 1: bad ass Jennifer tub Folks, I am so happy to 36 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:13,079 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show my friend Jennifer tub who. 37 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: This is our first show together on woke af since 38 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: since the New Year, So happy New Year to you. 39 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: You guys know Jen She is the author of Big 40 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: Dirty Money, The Shocking Injustice and Unseen Cost of White 41 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:31,959 Speaker 1: Collar Crime. She's also a fellow nerd Avenger. She's also 42 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: the host of Booked Up with Jen Tobbs. So if 43 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: you want to be in a good podcast book club, 44 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: check out her podcast and Jen I will let you 45 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: plug it when we rap at the end. But you know, 46 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: I want to start off by asking you just what 47 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: seems like a relatively easy question, but I find it 48 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: to be more and more complex as time goes by, 49 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: which is, how are you doing? Right? Like, there's so 50 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: much that goes into our thinking of this flipping of 51 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: the calendar, the shifting of the year, these grandiose plans, 52 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 1: these resolutions. I you know, and yet it seems to 53 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: be the same old shit but with a different number 54 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: attached to it. So I genuinely, you know, my friend, 55 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: how are you doing? I'm so glad you asked that, 56 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: because it should be a simple question, right there's a 57 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: for the non friend, you're like, I'm fine or I'm 58 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: having a hard time or whatever. For a real friend, 59 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: that's a hard question because you've got to be honest 60 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: and not superficial. And I don't know how I am, 61 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: Like I seem to be outwardly accomplishing a lot of 62 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: the goals I want to accomplish my relationships with friend 63 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: and friends and family are good. I feel like my 64 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: mental health is in a reasonably good space. I feel 65 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 1: healthy otherwise, And yet there's this part of me that's like, yeah, 66 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not fooled by this, like the real 67 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: may It's kind of like I say, I see I say, 68 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,040 Speaker 1: you're moving around. I see you walking around, But are 69 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 1: you really attending to the deeper stuff? And I think 70 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 1: the answer to that is no, that is no, because 71 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: we have been through so much since twenty fifteen. Our 72 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: world has been turned upside down. Some things are good. 73 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: I probably would not have met you if we had 74 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: not all moved over into so much of these zoom 75 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: spaces and so on. And you know, we could go 76 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 1: on and that, but you know, that's water under the 77 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: bridge now we all we have the relationships we have, 78 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 1: we have the bad stuff we have. But I think 79 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: the deeper I think it's time for some you know, 80 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: turning things over in some deeper understanding of how I'm doing, 81 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 1: how the world is doing, and how and how to 82 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: move forward into the next period of my life. You know, 83 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: I am a full disclosure. I just finished therapy. As 84 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: I come to turn on the mic to be in 85 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: conversation with you, and I realized now that that was 86 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 1: like the perfect thing to do because I'm having similar 87 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: deeply introspective moments and times when I because when I 88 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:38,039 Speaker 1: pull back, Jen, and I realize, my god, we've been 89 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: through a lot in you know, been through a lot 90 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: where folks, you know, before we turn hit and hit record, 91 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,040 Speaker 1: we're like, twenty fifteen, what's that been? Seven eight years? 92 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: Like what? Like what are we talking about in terms 93 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: of like a time frame? Because you know, jokingly, I 94 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 1: will say often time is a construct, and it truly is, 95 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 1: but that we've been living inside of this weird wormhole 96 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: and the idea that we've had to continue to produce 97 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:11,119 Speaker 1: because that's what capitalism requires during this time of great 98 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: upheaval and strife and upending of systems and worlds that 99 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: we have been indoctrinated into participating in in a certain 100 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: type of way that when I pull back just a 101 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: little bit from the doing and the producing gem, I'm like, 102 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 1: how the fuck are we all getting off the couch 103 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: every day? Like how are we all? And were we 104 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: all are in a different state and place of you know, 105 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 1: in the In twenty twenty one, The New York Times 106 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: referred to it as languishing. That's not it, because it 107 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 1: isn't for me. It isn't this sense of languishing, this 108 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 1: this kind of it is just this. I didn't know 109 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: that the upheaval would feel like this. I didn't know 110 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: that I would still have to be doing the normal, 111 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: regular shit as the world around us is falling apart. 112 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: It's funny, you know, as we were talking, I'm thinking about, well, 113 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: when did this begin? And I'm thinking it goes fifteen 114 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: years with a financial crash of twenty eight for me, 115 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: because that was a huge awakening, a huge, huge political 116 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: and philosophical awakening for me, and that I always believed 117 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: if stuff went down and it was really bad, the 118 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 1: ordinary people would not be left to you know, millions 119 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: of families kicked out on the street everything that went 120 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: down then, and that's what happened. And I also believed, 121 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:49,959 Speaker 1: you know, oh my god, there's this reckoning. Look looks like, 122 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: you know, having too much wealth in the hands of 123 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: people who can't spend in under chasing an investment. I 124 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: guess we're going to understand that that's a bad part 125 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 1: of capital, and we'll take the good stuff, some aspects 126 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 1: of markets, but we'll also take the good stuffs around, 127 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 1: you know, more socialism in terms of let's have government 128 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: do some things for people. Like I thought we were 129 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 1: going to get a better balance, and instead that's not 130 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: what went down. And I think it was, like I 131 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 1: think what happened then at that time, we are still 132 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: feeling the shock waves of that. Honestly globally too, because 133 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: you know, you get, I mean, it was already happening 134 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 1: in the nineties, the return of you know, neo fascism 135 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:39,439 Speaker 1: or the turn of fashionism, the form of neo fascism 136 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: in Europe. But I get the sense set in the US, 137 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:50,319 Speaker 1: the ability to pin the economic problems on the usual suspects. 138 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 1: Ye starts happening then, And so as much as we 139 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: can mock economic anxiety, that economic anxiety was exploited and 140 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: turned around and every I think, you know, the Tea 141 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: Party came out in two thousand and nine, you look 142 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: at all the stuff that went down. Instead of taking 143 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: that opportunity at the end of the Bush era, an 144 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: early Obama era, to say let's help everybody out, We're 145 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:21,599 Speaker 1: all in this together, and let's rethink things, it didn't 146 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 1: go in that direction. And some you know, and I 147 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 1: feel like the same thing continues to happen. The difference, 148 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 1: of course, is during COVID it was so much more 149 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: of an immediate shock to the economic system that everybody 150 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: and also because it was a white Republican president, everyone 151 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: was fine throwing money at the problem. Right. I don't 152 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: think Barack Obama got the support that he needed in 153 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:47,199 Speaker 1: terms of the stimulus. There was a lot that one 154 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: went down in two thousand and nine that set the 155 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 1: table for getting someone like Donald Trump in place. And 156 00:10:54,679 --> 00:11:00,319 Speaker 1: then the effect of where we are now still and 157 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:02,959 Speaker 1: the fact that we have these insurrectionists in Congress on 158 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,680 Speaker 1: the Homeland Security Committee, the fact that we've got this 159 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:10,439 Speaker 1: complete faith, bigger faith than Donald Trump, who is not 160 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: just seated in Congress, but they're giving him committee assignments. 161 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 1: I don't even know who the hell he is. Look, 162 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: I'm sitting here going you know, for all the stories 163 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: we use, stories, all the fear people used to have 164 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:24,079 Speaker 1: and say like, well, if such and such a happens, 165 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: then democracy is over. I mean, people, we gotta how 166 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: can this even be happening? Like and why? Okay, now 167 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:35,319 Speaker 1: I'm gonna rant, why the fuck is the what the 168 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: what the the news should be doing right now, what 169 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: journalists should be doing. There should be two kinds of stories. 170 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: One story should be, Hey, American people, there are thousands 171 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:45,599 Speaker 1: of dollars in rebates and tax credits available for you 172 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 1: if you go green. Here's how you do it. Because 173 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 1: my friends don't even know. All people know is there's 174 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: some stupid culture war between a gas stove versus an 175 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 1: induction top stove. How about talking about, Hey, you are 176 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 1: going to renovate your house, or you have a crappy 177 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: old stove, you can get a free one and free 178 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: labor if you do this. Why aren't those the news stories? 179 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 1: And the other news stories should be what the fuck 180 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 1: is going on with the Republicans. They've got a guy 181 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: involved in a Ponzi scheme, complete liar, and they're putting 182 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 1: among committees. There should not be a single story about 183 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,319 Speaker 1: Joe Biden's documents in the newspaper because I don't give 184 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 1: a fuck, and nobody does, and I don't know what 185 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 1: is going on anyway. I'm sorry nobody to hear any 186 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: rantings I'm not doing. Okay, no, but but that is 187 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: the is the That's not just your rant, that is 188 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 1: the rant of anyone who is in touch with reality 189 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: and what's happening not only with us internally, as we 190 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: continue to figure out how to make sense out of 191 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: a world that we realize was built on a lie. 192 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: You know, I said the other day, and I forget 193 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:56,079 Speaker 1: who I said it to you, but I said, you know, 194 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 1: the funny thing about K through twelve education and public 195 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: public school education is that it's built on a lie 196 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: about who America is and about who Americans are and 197 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: who we are to the world. And you spend your 198 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: whole adult life if in fact, you are in tuned 199 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: and you're thinking to yourself with that nagging suspicion that 200 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: something just doesn't seem right, This story just doesn't come 201 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 1: together completely in the way that it should. And if 202 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: you are intellectually curious in that way, in nimble, then 203 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 1: you're going to start to challenge the things that you 204 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: are learned. And so what then adulthood becomes is this 205 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: entire unlearning of everything that you were taught for the 206 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 1: first eighteen years of your life, right, And that becomes 207 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 1: something that is incredibly painful, because one, you want to 208 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 1: believe that you were smarter than that, and then two 209 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: you're like, what do I do with this information because 210 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,959 Speaker 1: now that I have it, and the system seems so big, 211 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 1: and the roofs seems so huge, and the Ponzi scheme 212 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 1: is not just in one area, it's in all systems 213 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: that is built to uphold the uber wealthy, the uber 214 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 1: white right, the faux Christian nationalists, and everybody else be damned. 215 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: COVID allowed us to see the real truth behind the 216 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 1: curtain and the lie right, because there was no way 217 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: to avoid why you were why you wanted to open 218 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: up a state when you realize the who the vaccine was, 219 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: I mean, who who was being most harmed? And you 220 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 1: say liberate this place and liberate that place, because you 221 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: could give a fuck if the people that are dying 222 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: are the essential workers that we say are essential, but 223 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 1: we don't essentially pay them a fucking living wage. Right, 224 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: But we were all able to stay shuttered in our 225 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: home so that black and brown people and immigrants and 226 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: low income workers could be out there literally battling a 227 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: fucking virus, right, so that we could all stay safe inside. 228 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: So who did we realize mattered and who didn't? And 229 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: I think that there is something that becomes gen like 230 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 1: really existential about that reality it's it's it's hard to 231 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: look at yourself in the mirror when you think about it, 232 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: because you know, I'm part of a system that I 233 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: did go back to work at a school, but I 234 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: was wearing a mask and I wasn't there all the time, 235 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: and in fact, we dropped the mask requirement. I guess 236 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 1: it was last spring and it was this past fall. 237 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: That's what I got COVID for the first time. But 238 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:42,479 Speaker 1: by the time I got it, I had been vaccinated 239 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: four times yep, and I felt safer and I got 240 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: the pax lav it. I wasn't scared because I'm an asthmatic, 241 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: you know, and I'm scared, like holy shit, because I'm 242 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: the person who gets every you know, you name an 243 00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 1: upper respiratory infection. It's like, hey, there's gen lungs. So 244 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: I I was scared. I want to go back, though, too, 245 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 1: to like this whole Okay, where are where are the 246 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: news stories? Like you know how people are going, Oh 247 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: you have you know all these people I can name 248 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: them who come on the morning shows and TV and 249 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 1: they say, look, you go to the store and this 250 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: cost more, and yeah, I can you know. I was 251 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: just at the grocery store today and I was surprised. 252 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: I hope a few bags I had and how much 253 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: money it was? Okay, that's absolutely true. But you know 254 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: how much money I could save if I replace the 255 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: old stove we put in this house. We bought a 256 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: really old house and what was it twenty two thousand 257 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: and six and it's a gas stove and it's gonna 258 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: cost I can get an eight hundred dollars what rebate 259 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: or credit plus labor? I could get that thing taking 260 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 1: out something else put in. It's safer for all of us. 261 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 1: That's a lot of that's a lot of trips to 262 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 1: the grocery store, and it stimulates the economy. That means 263 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: someone local here is going to do it. That means 264 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 1: I'm going to shop in a local appliance store. Well, 265 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: I want them to walk around an appliance store and 266 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: every fucking news show and say, this is nice, what 267 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:11,360 Speaker 1: does it do? How fast does it work? What would 268 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: it cost? That would be free? And here's why, because 269 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 1: if you make this amount of money this and then 270 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:17,680 Speaker 1: I want them to go to the home improvement store. 271 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 1: I'm not making this stuff up, Danielle. It's real, and 272 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: the word isn't getting out there. And I don't know 273 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: whose fault it is that the word isn't getting out there, 274 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 1: but I think someone needs to be pitching these stories. 275 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:30,640 Speaker 1: Maybe I should pitch them. I mean, I could talk 276 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: to people I know who are on television, but this 277 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:36,880 Speaker 1: should be everywhere. Why is it only a story if 278 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: someone's doing something bad instead of a huge multi billion 279 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: dollars worth of savings for their American people. Why isn't 280 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 1: that a story? Why is it only a story if 281 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:49,400 Speaker 1: I'm paying more on milk or pay more for gas, which, 282 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,159 Speaker 1: by the way, they got the gas prices down. You 283 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: don't hear about that, no, because that is not what 284 00:17:56,520 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 1: leads in newsrooms. Outrage does. And once we decided that 285 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 1: journalism was dead and that we were all going to 286 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:12,919 Speaker 1: just put out whatever was going to be clickbait, then 287 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 1: telling those good stories, who is that good for? Because 288 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:20,639 Speaker 1: I'll tell you that I will never forget this. Walking 289 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 1: the halls of MSNBC. Trump is elected. This is pre pandemic. 290 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 1: And I heard a producer say he's bad for the country, 291 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:35,639 Speaker 1: but he's good for business. You know what's good for business? 292 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: The advertisements though for all these appliances, or maybe they're 293 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 1: just not ready. Maybe the manufacturers aren't ready to advertise 294 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 1: about like, fuck, aren't these what I understand you come 295 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: from a place of thinking that people don't share good 296 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: information because they don't know. And what I've come to 297 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: realize is that they do know. They absolutely do know, 298 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: and they don't give a fuck. Oh yeah, that is 299 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:15,400 Speaker 1: the reality. It isn't just like I wish that people understood. 300 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 1: I wish that the people that were sitting in these 301 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: c suites and making decisions about what the segments should 302 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: be and who goes on air and what is delivered, 303 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 1: I wish that you know, they just knew. No, they 304 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 1: do jen, they just don't care, right, because the reality 305 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: is is that if everyone was doing well, then there 306 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 1: wouldn't really be the bottom of the pyramid, would there? Right? 307 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 1: And you need to have an oppressed, marginalized, just sick 308 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: enough class of people so that the uber rich can 309 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:02,239 Speaker 1: live the way that they want. So you have to 310 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: deny education, you have to deny access, and then you 311 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 1: have to make it somebody else's fault so that they 312 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 1: don't realize who's really pulling the strings. So the whole obedience, 313 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 1: so someone's doing the jobs and paying up through the 314 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 1: pyramid is that you're is that what you're getting at? Well? Yeah, 315 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: And you know it's interesting that just Larry Summers when 316 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:31,680 Speaker 1: he was doing some kind of television interview from did 317 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 1: you see this from a beach resort? Island resort, they're 318 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: like palm trees behind him and he's saying, you know, 319 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 1: you know, you know the trade off people often talk 320 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,199 Speaker 1: about between employment and inflation. He's like, yeah, we've got 321 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,159 Speaker 1: too many people employed, just the way it is. And 322 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: he's sitting there like with the palm trees, and I 323 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: was like, you know, you don't even know how to 324 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:56,399 Speaker 1: manage that image, and really and if that's but by 325 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: the way, if that's going to be the orthodoxy, and 326 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: that you're going to have to have a certain level 327 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: of unemployment, then there should be a better fucking safety net. 328 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:11,160 Speaker 1: But you don't want a safety net because you believe 329 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:15,400 Speaker 1: that most people who don't look like you, don't love 330 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: like you, don't share the same fucking nasty, immoral values 331 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: are undeserving. If everything is about a safety net, and 332 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 1: you believe, through some mythical form of thinking, that you've 333 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: pulled yourself up from your bootstraps, which is a fucking lie, 334 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 1: and you believe that you were somehow anointed, which is 335 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 1: what we think about the royal family and what they've 336 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: told us for generations. Right. If you think all of 337 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:49,880 Speaker 1: these things right, right, then why would you provide anything 338 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 1: to these other people? Right? Why don't they just do 339 00:21:54,119 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 1: for themselves the way people like people thinking that way? No, okay, 340 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: because I never thought that way. It don't Maybe my 341 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 1: parents didn't teach me that, but I never thought entit. 342 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 1: I never felt entitled, and I felt empathy always and 343 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: privilege like but I will tell you, as somebody who 344 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:19,879 Speaker 1: grew up middle class, and I am a child of 345 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 1: immigrants who left Jamaica and came to the United States 346 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:29,160 Speaker 1: to build a better life for their family, that I, 347 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 1: when I was very young, was fed the lie about 348 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:40,400 Speaker 1: black Americans that had been absorbed and spread around because 349 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:46,440 Speaker 1: everyone participates in white supremacy, and so the idea was like, well, 350 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: look at us, we came from Jamaica. We were able 351 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:53,159 Speaker 1: to buy homes and build lives and businesses and this, 352 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: that and the other thing. Why can't those black Americans 353 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 1: do that? And it was understand it, but it wasn't 354 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:05,640 Speaker 1: until like then I would learn and understand and challenge 355 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: this very stupid idea that I was that was being 356 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: taught to me by virtue of my family, but also 357 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 1: through an education system and society that was reinforcing that 358 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: same lie. When I say understandable, I don't mean accurate. 359 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 1: I mean the way I relate to that is I 360 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 1: had so much internalized patriot. Yeah. Yeah, because I was 361 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 1: luckily one of the kind of kids who learned easily, 362 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 1: who was a good people pleaser, who did well in school. 363 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 1: And I became and I was. I went to partially 364 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: with all girls middle school, and then the upper school 365 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: was co ed, and I and everyone would say, you know, 366 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 1: girls don't talk in class, and I was like, well, 367 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,200 Speaker 1: that's our unfucking fault. I don't believe this. They should 368 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: just do it because I'm an annoying talker, interrupter, whatever. 369 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 1: And I believed until my and through my twenties that 370 00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: you know, women could get as far as men, because 371 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,159 Speaker 1: I was always getting as far, if not farther, and 372 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:07,120 Speaker 1: men respected me and blah blah blah. And I don't 373 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:11,120 Speaker 1: know what the moment I realized suddenly I'm I kind 374 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 1: of dude. But without getting into all of it, is 375 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: that there was no sweet spot all of a sudden, 376 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: like everything worked fine for me until you know, I 377 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 1: think I got to that glass ceiling. And then I 378 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: also looked around and said, I don't know if i'd 379 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 1: like these values. I don't know if i'd like to 380 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: relate to everybody in this way. And I don't. And 381 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 1: I see how cutthroat it can be. There's a lot 382 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 1: of stuff. But if I can internalize all of that, 383 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 1: I can see why you would too, if those are 384 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 1: the stories you're told. And I was definitely told those 385 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 1: stories that, oh, women make these choices. Somebody asked me 386 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: the other day It's like a really valid question, and 387 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 1: they're like, you know, I'm just so interested to talk 388 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: to you about your career path because like you're an 389 00:24:53,880 --> 00:25:00,399 Speaker 1: out black queer woman and you've been so successful, and 390 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,400 Speaker 1: I'm just like confused about how that has happened. Like 391 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: what have you faced and like what are like what 392 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: are the challenges you know that you have faced? And 393 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: I said, UM, that is a really good question, and 394 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 1: I'm going to be really honest with you. I've had 395 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 1: like very minimal hardship in terms of things that I 396 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: have faced because any microaggressions, Um, around my race, uh 397 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,439 Speaker 1: and gender that I have faced I have readily pushed 398 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: back on because I had a certain amount of privilege 399 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:46,160 Speaker 1: that afforded me the ability to do that, right. Um, 400 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,399 Speaker 1: and so you had the same from your family or 401 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,959 Speaker 1: from my family. Without that, you wouldn't be able to 402 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 1: push it back. You would take it, swallow it, shrink, 403 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,080 Speaker 1: and then do whatever it is you had to you 404 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 1: in order to move forward. I didn't have to do that. 405 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: But then recognizing that just like you did, Wait a minute, 406 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:14,439 Speaker 1: people are not choosing to do that, like this is 407 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,360 Speaker 1: we are happened to be an anomaly? And why are 408 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: we an anomaly? Oh? Because of these things that these 409 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:27,440 Speaker 1: other people didn't have access to, right. And so recognizing that, 410 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: to me is what conscious raising is truly about. It's 411 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 1: we're not all the fucking same exactly right, and a luck. 412 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: I mean, I think along the way, it wasn't just 413 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,200 Speaker 1: your upbringing giving you the confidence a story you had 414 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 1: in your head. But I can point to all the 415 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: people who saw the real Mai along the way and 416 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 1: help me even though I had kind of pointy elbows, 417 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 1: and not everyone gets that. I mean, you could go 418 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,199 Speaker 1: back and think of moments where your life could have 419 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,400 Speaker 1: been hugely different one hundred percent. I mean I tell people, 420 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: particularly my friends that are attorneys, right, I say, I 421 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 1: wanted to go to law school. That was the only 422 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: thing that I wanted to do post undergrad. And I 423 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: had the white male professor who told me I wasn't 424 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 1: smart enough to go to law school. So I didn't go. 425 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 1: That is the one regret that I have and I 426 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 1: almost went back, but then I was just like, why 427 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: incurred the debt? Because I'm doing all the same jobs 428 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:35,640 Speaker 1: that everyone around me is doing without the law degree. Right, 429 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: it wasn't a hindrance. And people say, well, they were 430 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: making more money. No, not necessarily, not necessarily, so you know, 431 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 1: so it was a learning But I say that to 432 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 1: people often because one person was able to turn shift 433 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:58,719 Speaker 1: my life trajectory. Yeah, and so what if you have 434 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of people like that? Do you know 435 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 1: what I'm saying? So it's like recognizing it again, having 436 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 1: the privilege and the time and the space and the 437 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 1: thinking to be able to unpack those things, sure, you know, 438 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: and be able to sit here and say, yeah, it's 439 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 1: been eight years and this ship is fucking crazy, like 440 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,880 Speaker 1: we are living in crazy, crazy times. But this, oh 441 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 1: my gosh, I just figure something out. Between the two 442 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,119 Speaker 1: of us and our little therapy session. We start out 443 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 1: by saying, well, on the outside, we're doing blah blah 444 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: blah blah blah, because our whole life we have survived 445 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: by doing all the things yes, right, and that's what 446 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 1: we do so good through bad. If it's no way, 447 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 1: it's like where the mailman in the poem, like it 448 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 1: doesn't matter as it's snow ways at raining, it's the 449 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 1: whole country burning down, We're gonna be there. Given our kid, 450 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: it doesn't. But you have no idea how we're really 451 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: doing it. And sometimes we don't know because I think 452 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: we've learned to tune that out and there's a benefit 453 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: to dialing it down but not turning it off. And 454 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 1: so I think I'm trying to take moments where I'm really, 455 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 1: you know, going, how are you really doing? Yes? And 456 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: it's the moments that I'm really that I'm taking with friends, 457 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 1: that I'm taking with family and folks that are listening 458 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: to this. If you haven't asked yourself or those around 459 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: you because you are afraid of what the answer is like, 460 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: sit with that as well. Because I think that we 461 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: are all in some shape or form, lying to ourselves 462 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: because the reality of what we're experiencing is so fucking 463 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: crazy and deep, and we just don't have the arm 464 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 1: spand to wrap our arms around what is going on. 465 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 1: So we just continue the doing and the producing and 466 00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: the moving along, hoping that the tides change. I think 467 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: the one thing that helps me is listening to music. Music, 468 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: new music that I haven't listened to before, and stuff 469 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: I'm familiar with, because I think it's funny some people 470 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: lead with emotion. I just it's deep. I got to 471 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 1: really find it for me. I mean, I I care, 472 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,719 Speaker 1: but caring is a thinking emotion, right to feel I 473 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: really need and tap into that. So like listening to music, 474 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,479 Speaker 1: going for walks and really doing that, but also, like 475 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 1: you said, checking in with the people I'm close to 476 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 1: and say, how are you really doing? Yeah, they tend 477 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: to tell me I'm around people who are much more 478 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: emotive than I am, honestly, and I too, am around 479 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 1: people that are very emotive. And the thing that I 480 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 1: have been doing similarly, my therapist said, you need more 481 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 1: beauty in your life. You need to be reminded of 482 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 1: art and music, and that there is still beauty that 483 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 1: is being produced and expressed, and you need to consume 484 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: that so much. Agree, Yeah, with the vigor that you consume. 485 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 1: All that is wrong. Yes, you know it's funny. I 486 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 1: in fall of twenty twenty or was it twenty twenty one, 487 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 1: all the things blend together. It was twenty twenty one, right, 488 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 1: so we'd kind of been vaccinated. And I go out 489 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 1: and I came down to New York actually to go 490 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 1: to a friend's book party. And I had to kill 491 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 1: some time because I drove in and I drove out, 492 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 1: and I parked right at the met because it was 493 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 1: actually pretty cheap parking up there, right in the museum. 494 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 1: And I went in there and I almost started to cry, 495 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 1: like from looking at art, because I realized how impoverished 496 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 1: I'd been, and how beautiful it felt to me dance 497 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 1: because then there aren't words, especially things without words. I mean, 498 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: you and I live in it with words. Maybe no words. 499 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 1: Maybe maybe look at paintings and dance and for maybe 500 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 1: music without words, because I think we both need that. 501 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: I have UM I recently, and UM the thing that 502 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 1: I will tell people I recently I went to over 503 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 1: the holidays. I saw Alvin Elly, which is a tradition 504 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 1: that I love and like can try and restore now 505 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 1: that we're managing to live with COVID. Incredible. M Did 506 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: they do revelations? Oh my god. Yeah, I'm just and 507 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 1: you know, just sitting there and being able to take 508 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 1: in the beauty of movement, of spirit of music and 509 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,960 Speaker 1: just like it was similarly how you said when you 510 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: went into the met like I did cry because I realized, 511 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: is that, oh this still happens in the midst of 512 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: all that is occurring. It always has, it always has. 513 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: But it's the remembering to remind yourself to consume it 514 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: right in that in the way that is needed. And 515 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 1: I don't say in a way that is balanced, because 516 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: we need to be taking in more art, more music, 517 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 1: more nature, more community than we are the toxicity. Yes, 518 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: So final thoughts Jen to you, what advice do you 519 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 1: take and do you offer to those listening about how 520 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: to connect with the truth and not just the veneer 521 00:33:53,600 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: of I'm fine to say it's okay not to be fine. 522 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 1: I mean, we all have a finite you know, when 523 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 1: you know we have a finite experience here on this earth. 524 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 1: Whether you believe in an afterlife or not. This is 525 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 1: what we have, and we have the relationships, and we 526 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:19,239 Speaker 1: have art, and we have making a difference. And the 527 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 1: reason why we should be staying politically engaged and seeing 528 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 1: things as they are isn't just for us, but it's 529 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 1: for the next generation and the next one. And that's 530 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 1: our part. And I think we see ourselves, you know, 531 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about God is at the end of I 532 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,160 Speaker 1: haven't read it in so long, but maybe Anna Karnina, 533 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 1: we're like whoever the guy in Tolstoy's novel is seeing 534 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 1: himself because he goes through this whole process of trying 535 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,399 Speaker 1: to figure out who he is religion wise and all 536 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,480 Speaker 1: this stuff, and then he finally situates himself and this 537 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 1: long arc of history and that's us. We're part of 538 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,839 Speaker 1: thousands upon thousands of years. And people are making gorgeous 539 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,280 Speaker 1: work during the plagues and people, you know, and people 540 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 1: are doing incredible things during aids, and people now have 541 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 1: found ways to express in me during these terrible times. 542 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:16,319 Speaker 1: And the sun always rises, ye, and there can be 543 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,359 Speaker 1: that feeling of warmth of sun on your skin, and 544 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,440 Speaker 1: there can be all of these things, the good and 545 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,920 Speaker 1: the bad in the world, and that happens, and it's 546 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,399 Speaker 1: our job to also be alive to that, even as 547 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 1: we understand that this political world and this economic system 548 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:34,840 Speaker 1: is really unfair, infect up, and we can try to 549 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,080 Speaker 1: move it into a better place. But that work is 550 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,279 Speaker 1: never going to be done in our lifetime. But our 551 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,360 Speaker 1: lifetime is going to be done in our lifetime, and 552 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,320 Speaker 1: we can't rob ourselves and the people we love around 553 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:48,720 Speaker 1: us of that full self, human self that can enjoy beauty, 554 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 1: feel pain, and show love. Jennifer Tom that I don't know. 555 00:35:55,920 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 1: This was not an interview. This was more so a beautiful, 556 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:08,319 Speaker 1: imaginative intervention, and I appreciate you so very much. Thank 557 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 1: you for making the time for woke af Thank you 558 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 1: so much. I didn't know I need this too? Who knew? That? 559 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,920 Speaker 1: Is it for me today, Dear friends on woke f 560 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:29,240 Speaker 1: as always, Power to the people and to all the people. Power, 561 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,759 Speaker 1: Get woke and stay woke as fuck.