Speaker 1: Hey, fam, I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the
Speaker 1: Red Table Pop podcast, all your favorite episodes from the
Speaker 1: Facebook watch show in audio, produced by Westbrook Audio and
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. Please don't forget to rate and review
Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. Forty million people watch porn on a
Speaker 1: regular basis. Forty million people. Low key. I'm down for
Speaker 1: for the expensive looking stuff. You know, I'm down for
Speaker 1: the artistic. You know, Jesus, well it's arts. If it's artsy, well,
Speaker 1: let me tell you, well, I guess I'm not looking
Speaker 1: at the right stuff, because what do you say? If
Speaker 1: I was sit there on my porn game, I'll be
Speaker 1: able to show you some good porn because back in
Speaker 1: the day, I had a little porn addiction, but I
Speaker 1: wasn't in a relationship where I had a porn addiction, believe,
Speaker 1: Thank goodness. I just want you all to know this
Speaker 1: is a lot for me. It's a lot for you.
Speaker 1: It's been a lot for me. You never think your
Speaker 1: mother has anything to do with porn whatsoever, or your grandchild,
Speaker 1: because I remember the first time I went on will
Speaker 1: Lost Tumbler, she was ten or eleven and she said, Mom,
Speaker 1: and she's very matter of fact, she was like, I'm
Speaker 1: going to my tumbler page. But as we're going to
Speaker 1: the tumbler page, you're gonna see a lot of stuff
Speaker 1: it has nothing to do with me. So I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: so she's just scrolling, scrolling, And when I tell you
Speaker 1: I saw some of the most hardcore porno, it wasn't Mom,
Speaker 1: it really was. It was hard, It really was. It
Speaker 1: was she to be seeing that freaking eleven years old, Tom,
Speaker 1: I don't believe that. No Tombler more of the artistic
Speaker 1: aspect of it though, not what I saw, well, nothing
Speaker 1: artistic about that. I saw something that you saw, but yeah,
Speaker 1: what I remember graphic what I know about tumbler. I
Speaker 1: was like Willow, and she was like, don't even pay
Speaker 1: attention to it. We're getting to my page. I was like,
Speaker 1: I can't believe kids are exposed to this on a
Speaker 1: daily basis. I was profoundly disturbed. But the thing that
Speaker 1: I will say, though, is that because I had you
Speaker 1: and Daddy to actually like have real conversations with that,
Speaker 1: stuff didn't really affect me. Because I knew I had
Speaker 1: I had a connection with people that I could talk
Speaker 1: to about it, and you like, what the reality of
Speaker 1: it was. Let me ask you a question, because back
Speaker 1: in the day, porn for my generation started in magazines
Speaker 1: and then you had to like go to a CD
Speaker 1: store to get a VHS tape, like you had to, like,
Speaker 1: we didn't have access to it like that. So if
Speaker 1: you you had to like really going adventure to go
Speaker 1: see some pornography, whereas for your generation, it's on your phone,
Speaker 1: it's porn in your pocket, porn in your pocket. What
Speaker 1: have you seen in regards to your generation? Do you
Speaker 1: know boys that are fascinated with porn or like who
Speaker 1: have a specific I mean, I have two brothers, so
Speaker 1: they're not addicted to porn. No, they're not addicted to porn.
Speaker 1: But like, I've done seen some stuff, So what is
Speaker 1: going on? That's a moment, all right, all right? She's like,
Speaker 1: I can't take it. I can't. I think I'll probably
Speaker 1: be in too much shock to even converse about it.
Speaker 1: This is the time. No, like that, I don't even
Speaker 1: know if I want to hear it. Honestly, Oh god,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get it out of them, best believe. Let's
Speaker 1: not stigmatize it. Come on, guys, you know what do
Speaker 1: you mean? Let's not stigmatize it. You know, people are
Speaker 1: already having problems with it, so if we stigmatize it,
Speaker 1: it makes it more shameful, you know, and it makes
Speaker 1: it so that people don't want to talk about it
Speaker 1: and then don't heal. It's a slippery slope that it is.
Speaker 1: It's a slippery slope. And I know that it's a
Speaker 1: person balance, Like when is it okay? And when is
Speaker 1: it just destructive in our relationship? Oh, if it's causing
Speaker 1: problems in your relationship, that's a tricky sit It's it's tricky.
Speaker 1: It is true. Icky. Well, we'll take it to the table.
Speaker 1: This shall be an interesting table today, so please join us.
Speaker 1: This will not be my favorite show. Let's just put
Speaker 1: that out there. It will not, you know, my favorite.
Speaker 1: Let go of the inhibitions, yes, you know. Okay, it's
Speaker 1: time to get to get real baby. Here we are
Speaker 1: at the table to talk about the effects of pornography
Speaker 1: on relationship relationships. Yeah, this is an interesting one. And
Speaker 1: I actually feel like I was using maybe addiction a
Speaker 1: little lightly, And maybe I will say now that I
Speaker 1: had an unhealthy relationship to porn at one point in
Speaker 1: my life where I was trying to practice act do
Speaker 1: you think that fixation on porn came for an emotional it?
Speaker 1: Did you know it was actually like feeling like an
Speaker 1: emptiness at least you think it is exactly, but it's
Speaker 1: actually not. And I'm actually reading like some of the
Speaker 1: effects of pornography, like the idea that it really gives
Speaker 1: you false expectations. As far as sexual interaction, I can
Speaker 1: definitely see, you know, how a woman should always be
Speaker 1: willing and ready. He should be able to have sex
Speaker 1: however he wants in any positions, where like you should
Speaker 1: enjoy it no matter what, and it shouldn't just be
Speaker 1: joy but it should be just exhilarated, you know. And
Speaker 1: even in pornography, you're never tired, there's never a no,
Speaker 1: you know. So I can definitely see how that could
Speaker 1: um create a unrealistic expectation. To me, there's something about
Speaker 1: porn that's unnatural. Yes, yeah, extremely, I don't have of
Speaker 1: any qualms. Well, I actually do, you know, But it's
Speaker 1: not like I, you know, look down on people that
Speaker 1: use it because you know, it's been beneficial for me
Speaker 1: to but has it? Yeah, because I grew up in
Speaker 1: the household that was just created a lot of shame,
Speaker 1: which is so interesting because it wasn't like that for you,
Speaker 1: but it definitely was like that for me. And so
Speaker 1: you felt like porn helped break the shame, help help
Speaker 1: you just get more comfortable. There's something about it that
Speaker 1: was freeing. But that's all. There's also part of like
Speaker 1: this is a time when you need to have really
Speaker 1: really good girlfriends. Yeah, you know, thank you, Terry. Terry
Speaker 1: talked to me because she was like, look, any sex
Speaker 1: that you had between you and your husband that you're
Speaker 1: both in agreement on, it's fine, you know. She she
Speaker 1: really helped me with that because those internal blockages that
Speaker 1: make you unable to connect, which then makes you feel
Speaker 1: like you have to go to this other source. There
Speaker 1: are things that I don't like to watch, Like I
Speaker 1: don't like to watch a lot of abuse and all
Speaker 1: that slapping women in the face, and like I don't
Speaker 1: like all of that. Yeah, and then you have that
Speaker 1: porn that's more sensual. This you know, it's like it's
Speaker 1: it's very sensual, very done in a very artistic way.
Speaker 1: You know, you're slow motion and you know, very sensual,
Speaker 1: more about love making instead of like you know, abuse
Speaker 1: and aggression exactly. So you have and you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying exactly, and I'm like, listen, believe with my
Speaker 1: daughter and my granddaughter, I can't believe I'm in this
Speaker 1: conversation with you, and I gotta hear a terry he's
Speaker 1: telling you. But you know what, Adrian, it's okay if
Speaker 1: you to watch a little porn, like really right, it's
Speaker 1: but yeah, it's girlfriends helpful when you have hang ups. No, definitely,
Speaker 1: it is those two schools of thought. You have a
Speaker 1: lot of women who are like, you know, porn should
Speaker 1: be totally eradicated, but it's not good in any way,
Speaker 1: And then you have those women who feel the same
Speaker 1: way as you do. I've heard lots of women say
Speaker 1: that it has helped them break their inhibitions in regards
Speaker 1: to sex, which I do feel as though a lot
Speaker 1: of women have that to deal with. And let me
Speaker 1: tell you something, I don't really think we know culturally
Speaker 1: what women like in regards to sex. That part because
Speaker 1: women have always been repressed and allowed to explore in
Speaker 1: the same way as man. But I definitely think men
Speaker 1: do perceive sex in a very different way. Of course,
Speaker 1: I think that that just like men perceived the world
Speaker 1: in a very different way. Because we hadn't haven't had
Speaker 1: the freedom, right, you know, we're just getting to the
Speaker 1: point where we're even given selves the opportunity to explore.
Speaker 1: So we need years of that before we even know.
Speaker 1: Ye will get labeled a slut and a part beat
Speaker 1: in a minute. And that is that structure that will
Speaker 1: label a woman as a slut in the hole when
Speaker 1: she expresses her sexuality and you know, finds joy in
Speaker 1: sexual pleasure. That's the same structure that is upholding this
Speaker 1: porn industry. Right, you better talk about it a little
Speaker 1: girl today. It's really about talking about porn and how
Speaker 1: it's caused really detrimental, detrimental. They say one third of
Speaker 1: people addicted to porn lose their jobs, and they say
Speaker 1: that porn addicts are three more likely to cheat on
Speaker 1: their partners. That's what they say. Are they considering that
Speaker 1: watching the porn is cheating? I think a lot of
Speaker 1: partners consider even watching porn cheating because it's taking it's
Speaker 1: taking attention away from the part their partner. Because there
Speaker 1: are a lot of porn addicts who lose sexual interests
Speaker 1: in their partners because the expectation is so different, right,
Speaker 1: so many of my peers who come to me and
Speaker 1: are like, my boyfriend likes watching porn, Like I'm not surely,
Speaker 1: and they're not sure how to like. They're like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'll try to watch it with him and make it
Speaker 1: like a thing that I'm involved in, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. So it's not just a thing that he
Speaker 1: feels like he's doing on his own. You know, there
Speaker 1: are a lot of couples that say that um porn
Speaker 1: has a devastating effect on that vash and ship. This
Speaker 1: brave couple are leaders in a new nationwide movement. They
Speaker 1: are sharing their story to warn others about the dangers
Speaker 1: of pornography. Name is Garrett Johnson, twenty nine years old.
Speaker 1: I have a beautiful wife and we have two kids.
Speaker 1: What's your name? Dude? This is Rev How old are you?
Speaker 1: Three years old? This is a did you just turn Tuesday? Book?
Speaker 1: My beautiful wife where it was a jazz dancer. She
Speaker 1: dance for the Utah Jazz our six year anniversaries on
Speaker 1: Sunday when I was nine years old. That was with
Speaker 1: my friends. We were start football buddies and we were
Speaker 1: at a sleepover. That night was the first night that
Speaker 1: I saw pornography. And I didn't know then that that
Speaker 1: night would be the beginning of a challenge. As I
Speaker 1: grew and went into thirteen, fourteen, and fifteen, I would
Speaker 1: watch it a few times a week. I just remember thinking,
Speaker 1: when I got married, I won't have to use pornography anymore.
Speaker 1: I just continue to say, over and over all, right,
Speaker 1: this is the last time, and then I'd go through
Speaker 1: periods would be like, Okay, I'm just gonna do it
Speaker 1: and just accept it. Well, first, I want to say
Speaker 1: thank you, really honestly for just you know, being willing
Speaker 1: to come here and share your story. It's not easy.
Speaker 1: It's not easy to do, and there's so many people
Speaker 1: who are dealing with this issue and their relationships. I honestly,
Speaker 1: when I watched your episodes, I'm like, man, this table
Speaker 1: is going to change the world. Those conversations are important.
Speaker 1: So we're excited to be here. Well, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1: So when did you realize that you actually had a problem.
Speaker 1: When I was nine, I was when I was first exposed,
Speaker 1: and I was very open. I didn't feel guilty about it.
Speaker 1: My friends and I would watch porn even together sometimes,
Speaker 1: and that was kind of common practicing. That's what happened
Speaker 1: to me. I was around like eleven, but all my
Speaker 1: girlfriends were like, oh, like you should watch and I
Speaker 1: was like, I'm not really sure. Fast forward to two
Speaker 1: thousand seven, and that's when like the first versions of
Speaker 1: smartphones coming out, right, So for me, that's when the
Speaker 1: concept of more and more often and a more hardcore
Speaker 1: version came into place, okay, and then ramped up real
Speaker 1: quick with the technology. Technology. God, that's the game changer.
Speaker 1: I grew up in a house that taught that it's
Speaker 1: important to treat people with respect, and that's important to
Speaker 1: treat women with respect and to be honest. And so
Speaker 1: I think when I started to realize that I had
Speaker 1: a challenge of pornography was when we started dating, and
Speaker 1: then I didn't feel comfortable telling her how often were
Speaker 1: you looking at points every day? Every day? Did you
Speaker 1: feel any like like before he told you, did you
Speaker 1: feel like there might have been something? You know? It's
Speaker 1: what's interesting is there were no red flags. But also
Speaker 1: for me, like even when we were dating, there was
Speaker 1: never the question. It just wasn't an issue, Like in
Speaker 1: my mind, you didn't think of something that was brought
Speaker 1: to my attention. So you guys got married and then
Speaker 1: through four years of marriage, and I was able to
Speaker 1: hide it from her because I did not want to
Speaker 1: tell her. Not only am I deceiving her, I'm deceiving myself.
Speaker 1: Got it all the sneaking around like all that. How
Speaker 1: did you feel like it was that hard to sneak
Speaker 1: around it? Because this is rectangle, my poet, It's not
Speaker 1: a boxing magazine in the bathroom anytime was there as
Speaker 1: a closed door exactly thinking or questioning it? You didn't
Speaker 1: want to tell her why I didn't want to tell
Speaker 1: her because I love her so much and they didn't
Speaker 1: want to care about her so much. Yeah, Like I
Speaker 1: talked about it with my friends, but it wasn't serious discussion.
Speaker 1: It wasn't like, hey, dude, like I'm having a challenge,
Speaker 1: this is affective. The ways I didn't know it wasn't
Speaker 1: getting vulnerable and so going into her I couldn't talk
Speaker 1: to her about it because you couldn't go to that
Speaker 1: vulnerable space. And so I was like, I'm gonna handle
Speaker 1: by myself over and over and over and over and over.
Speaker 1: I tried to stop and could not stop over and over. Wow,
Speaker 1: what would you say was your lowest moment? I think
Speaker 1: for me, it was like when I finally told Aerial
Speaker 1: the truth. I think that was probably the lowest moment.
Speaker 1: What made you tell me I was sick of How
Speaker 1: did that make you feel when he came to you
Speaker 1: and said that he was trying to stop or that
Speaker 1: he was even engaging? Yeah, so it was it was
Speaker 1: like late at night, we were laying in bed, and
Speaker 1: I could tell that he was very restless. Yeah, He's like,
Speaker 1: I got something to tell you, and I'm like, what
Speaker 1: is it going to be? And you know, your stomach
Speaker 1: and your nerves and everything, just like everything I'm thinking
Speaker 1: is like Clara up here, and I'm like, is he
Speaker 1: gonna leave me to eatcheat on me? And then he
Speaker 1: told me that and I was like like I didn't
Speaker 1: know what to say. It's like numb almost, and kind
Speaker 1: of hurt a little bit because at the time, for
Speaker 1: a moment, I was like, well, we're not good enough
Speaker 1: for him, you know, like they we're not giving him
Speaker 1: what he needs. So for short while I kind of
Speaker 1: went into denial and kind of was like put it
Speaker 1: back here. And it it was like, you know, with that,
Speaker 1: put it back here, and we're not going to talk
Speaker 1: about it for a couple of weeks. How do you
Speaker 1: think it affected your relationship? It's still kind of happening,
Speaker 1: like we're still figuring it out. And I think one
Speaker 1: thing is the unrealistic expectation of sex in a relationship.
Speaker 1: Got it. So I'm his wife and he's my husband,
Speaker 1: and we're supposed to have sex or have sex all
Speaker 1: the time because pornography has puts unrealistic expectations in people's
Speaker 1: minds after they've watched it. When I'm ready, you should
Speaker 1: always be ready and be very ready. Yeah, but nothing
Speaker 1: about about how she performed or are times I think
Speaker 1: afterwards where in my mind I was like, because I
Speaker 1: never watched porn. Really, I find it very interesting that
Speaker 1: he has an addiction and you never watched it, so
Speaker 1: you don't even you don't know even know what that is.
Speaker 1: That's insecurity in your mind, right, it's like, what do
Speaker 1: they look like? How do I look compared to there?
Speaker 1: To what you're watching? Right? And I mean, we would
Speaker 1: always fulfill each other's needs. But even after he told
Speaker 1: you you weren't like you was after he told me
Speaker 1: that you were like and I didn't even still there.
Speaker 1: Oh wow. I asked him some questions, but it took
Speaker 1: me several weeks to get there. Took me some weeks
Speaker 1: to ask him what kind of how much, how exactly?
Speaker 1: You know, the arguments would come up because I enjoy sex,
Speaker 1: I enjoy being intimate with my husband, but there were
Speaker 1: times when I didn't want to kind of what you said,
Speaker 1: and yeah, exactly, and there are times where you're just
Speaker 1: tired to sleep, and I think that's what caused the
Speaker 1: negative feelings, the arguments, And it would happen several times
Speaker 1: a year, you know, and when I would say no,
Speaker 1: then he would kind of get really frustrated and we
Speaker 1: would argue about it. It would become a big issue.
Speaker 1: Just three months ago, we're getting physically intimate, right and
Speaker 1: Ariel in her like a very considerate way, She's like,
Speaker 1: I'm not in the mood, you know, like she was
Speaker 1: vibing it a little bit. But then she's like, I'm
Speaker 1: not in the mood. I snapped, like in an emotional way.
Speaker 1: We got into an argument. Ria left she was like,
Speaker 1: don't touch me. You know. She left the house at
Speaker 1: eleven PM. And I want to hear it anymore. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it's embarrassing to talk about, to be honest, because
Speaker 1: I'm like, shoot, I gave her space. I didn't text
Speaker 1: her or anything. I was like, oh man, what did
Speaker 1: I just do? Did I just ruin it? We've had
Speaker 1: this argument several times. She slept over in her mom's house,
Speaker 1: but I didn't know that, and then it's embarrassing again.
Speaker 1: It's like your mother in law, what got you home
Speaker 1: from your mother's house from that night? I fight for
Speaker 1: my family. Garrets are really good man, and I love him,
Speaker 1: so I didn't want to leave him right, but I
Speaker 1: was sick of the issues. So I needed him to
Speaker 1: come to an understanding of like, if I say no,
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean anything against you. It doesn't mean I
Speaker 1: don't love it. I mean I don't love you. It
Speaker 1: doesn't mean I don't want to have a connection. Because
Speaker 1: I took it as like you don't find me attractive,
Speaker 1: And that's what happens to most, at least in my
Speaker 1: experience with Meg. You say no, and it's like you
Speaker 1: don't like me, you don't love me, you don't want me,
Speaker 1: and it's like, no, I just don't feel like sleeping
Speaker 1: with you. So one of my questions is just because
Speaker 1: she said no, right, why did I take that personally? Right?
Speaker 1: Did you get to answer that for yourself. In my opinion,
Speaker 1: it was my favorite aha moment. Corn is always there.
Speaker 1: The major difference is instant gratification and defer, yes, did
Speaker 1: you seek any outside help? To be honest, we didn't
Speaker 1: have the money to do therapy spend this type of
Speaker 1: money every week on therapy. Right The way we sought
Speaker 1: help was the online program, and that helped got it
Speaker 1: to start increasing my awareness. Why was I consuming pornography?
Speaker 1: When was I consuming pornography so fast? Forwards? Today two
Speaker 1: thousand nineteen is like three years and I don't have
Speaker 1: a challenge with pornography anymore. Kudos to you, yea honestly man,
Speaker 1: So I was turning thirty years old and I'm sick
Speaker 1: of no one talking about this. And I found out
Speaker 1: that I was good at endurance events because I've done
Speaker 1: a full iron Man and finished, and so I used
Speaker 1: that skill of finishing endurance events and I'm like, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna do thirty marathons in thirty days while wearing handcuffs,
Speaker 1: and the handcuffs represented like the the addictive nature of
Speaker 1: pornography in this healing process. Between the two of you,
Speaker 1: have you seen a difference in the intimacy aspect and
Speaker 1: I'm not just talking about sex, because there's also a
Speaker 1: big difference between sex and intimacy. Zero intimacy, right, you know,
Speaker 1: that's a very good point, and realizing you're not always
Speaker 1: entitled and then sometimes it is just about talking and
Speaker 1: holding or what have you, which I think was another
Speaker 1: thing because I'd be scared to cuddle. I'd be scared
Speaker 1: for him to touch me because I'm before he told
Speaker 1: me about this challenge, because I'm like, I don't want
Speaker 1: to have sex. I don't want to do it tonight.
Speaker 1: Don't you don't touch my hand, don't put right. I
Speaker 1: don't always seem to turn into And we're still working
Speaker 1: on that. Just even just like a week ago. I
Speaker 1: remember I was like, let's cuddle and we were in bed.
Speaker 1: I'd go to bed and she's like, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: no sex, just cuddle. The pressure was taken off, so
Speaker 1: then you could just enjoy being your husband's off. So
Speaker 1: we're still working on it. But would you have any
Speaker 1: advice for the women out there that might be dealing
Speaker 1: with It's so tough because you feel judged. You know,
Speaker 1: you feel like, here's this amazing couple who does great
Speaker 1: things that you don't have any issues. Like you see
Speaker 1: everything on Instagram, you know, I think everything is perfect
Speaker 1: and like, Okay, this is really embarrassing and my husband
Speaker 1: has this issue and now I'm a part of it.
Speaker 1: But just from my experience, my personal experience, I didn't
Speaker 1: judge Garrett for what he had to go through and
Speaker 1: what he was going through, and I feel like I
Speaker 1: have a lot of compassion for him. And we have
Speaker 1: three kids at home and I'm working mom. So my
Speaker 1: biggest advice would be, if you can, depending on this situation,
Speaker 1: if you can be patient, love them as much as
Speaker 1: you can to help them through it, because I think
Speaker 1: the worst thing you can do, again, depending on the situation,
Speaker 1: it scold them because they've already felt guilt. Yeah, thank you, guys,
Speaker 1: Thank you. I've got a real education today. You guys
Speaker 1: are really wonderful. This is good. Can I do like that? Hey,
Speaker 1: you guys, We've got Ariel and Garrett here. It may
Speaker 1: be so kind to come and talk to us about
Speaker 1: the effects of pornography in relationships. Bifout for smiling or
Speaker 1: no Hey r T T family. Join our Red Table
Speaker 1: talk group on Facebook. Become part of the conversation. To
Speaker 1: join the Red Table Talk family and become a part
Speaker 1: of the conversation. Follow us at facebook dot com slash
Speaker 1: red table Talk. Thanks for listening to this episode of
Speaker 1: Red Table Talk podcast produced by Facebook, Watch, Westbrook Audio,
Speaker 1: and I Heart Radio.