WEBVTT - The Jeremy Grantham Aftershow

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Maren Talks Money the After Show.

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<v Speaker 2>This is where we comment on the guest interviews in

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<v Speaker 2>our regular podcast, and when we say comment, we do

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<v Speaker 2>mean comment, sometimes positively, sometimes negatively.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's see where this one goes. I'm Maren Sunsetweb.

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<v Speaker 2>This week, John Steppeck, Senior report at Bloomberg and author

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<v Speaker 2>of the Daily Money Distilled newsletter, which if you haven't

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<v Speaker 2>signed up to do so immediately, joins me to discuss

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<v Speaker 2>my conversation with GMO co founder Jeremy Grandsam.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, John, we have.

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<v Speaker 2>Had a lot of feedback from this. Everyone loved it.

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<v Speaker 2>Everyone loves it from Jeremy. He's very well known for

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<v Speaker 2>his big market calls. And we talked about a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of things in this pot of been through the whole market.

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<v Speaker 2>We've been through you know, climate change, We've been through

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<v Speaker 2>artificial intelligence.

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<v Speaker 1>We've been through evaluations.

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<v Speaker 2>We've been through lots on the US market, a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit on other markets, etc.

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<v Speaker 1>What did you think I mean?

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<v Speaker 3>I need to start by saying I am actually a

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<v Speaker 3>massive faning Jimmy Grant.

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<v Speaker 2>She that's entirely true. There are some people on a

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<v Speaker 2>massive fan of Germany. Granted, I don't know why these

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<v Speaker 2>people would feel like that.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I mean, I've spent years reading these stuff and probably,

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<v Speaker 3>I would say I probably he's the person that sticks

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<v Speaker 3>more in my mind than pretty much any other.

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<v Speaker 1>I just need to say something to listener. Is just

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<v Speaker 1>about you and Jeremy. I'm okay.

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<v Speaker 2>Confirmation bias, confirmation bias.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, I've never met him. It's not like more

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<v Speaker 3>pals or anything like that.

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<v Speaker 1>But what do you think he thinks what you think?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, absolutely, well, yeah, mostly, which is also interesting. But no,

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<v Speaker 3>I mean I thought it was interesting. It's mostly not

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<v Speaker 3>anything particularly new, because obviously you know Ready's stuff, and

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<v Speaker 3>we've spoken to him a lot, and I do have

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<v Speaker 3>time for the people who think that he's overly berish,

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<v Speaker 3>because he's often he was absolutely right whenever he called

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<v Speaker 3>the turn in two thousand and nine, which he talked

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<v Speaker 3>about in the podcast. But equally, you know, I think

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<v Speaker 3>it's fair to say that gmo is as an asset

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<v Speaker 3>manager has been negative to an extent that would have

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<v Speaker 3>lost your money over the relative to what you could

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<v Speaker 3>have done. Basically, if the default position is stick all

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<v Speaker 3>your money in an S and P five hundred tracker,

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<v Speaker 3>then following kind of their advice about what long term

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<v Speaker 3>US returns were going to be, Like, you know, seven

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<v Speaker 3>years ago, when it was basically saying they were very

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<v Speaker 3>small and that the US was very expensive compared to

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<v Speaker 3>other markets, you wouldn't have done as well as you

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<v Speaker 3>could have if you'd just kept things very simple. And

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<v Speaker 3>I think that's a reasonable criticism. So at the same time,

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<v Speaker 3>I just think that he's an interesting guy to listen to.

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<v Speaker 3>And if you want to hear the bear case articulated,

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<v Speaker 3>then someone like Jeremy for example, articulates it far better

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<v Speaker 3>die and see the eld Erubini. It's not access Rubini,

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<v Speaker 3>but it's just that you know it's not. It's like

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<v Speaker 3>Jeremies get very specific and clear either kind of mathematical

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<v Speaker 3>almost kind of reasons and kind of logical reasons. And also,

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, I tend to think there's probably just largely

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<v Speaker 3>just early rather than wrong. Otherwise we know and market

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<v Speaker 3>has been too early is not the.

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<v Speaker 1>Same as being wrong, really, and I suppose.

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<v Speaker 3>So you're very unbiased, you're biased.

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<v Speaker 2>And of course he uses things like this shill appee,

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<v Speaker 2>which we talked about in the podcast as evaluation method

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<v Speaker 2>and we know that that works over the very very

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<v Speaker 2>long term. But as a short term signal, it's pretty useless.

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<v Speaker 2>Doesn't really tell us much about where markets are going

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<v Speaker 2>to go, and ass we're looking at it over the

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<v Speaker 2>really the super long term.

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<v Speaker 4>The model that Ben Ncurr and I did twenty years ago,

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<v Speaker 4>it's got a very high correlation explaining pe. It doesn't

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<v Speaker 4>predict it. It just says, how do we get here?

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<v Speaker 4>It turns out the market is really a coincident indicator

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<v Speaker 4>of comfort. What does it take to make a portfolio

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<v Speaker 4>manager comfortable in an institution? And the answer is, as

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<v Speaker 4>you suggest, steady inflation around two percent. It hates inflationary

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<v Speaker 4>spikes and very high profit margins. And the profit margins

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<v Speaker 4>have been drifting down and more than people realize, and

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<v Speaker 4>inflation has been bouncing around, but it's part of the

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<v Speaker 4>scenery now. And the model says a shillopee should be

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<v Speaker 4>about sixteen point eight, which is decently above average and

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<v Speaker 4>doesn't sound ridiculously low. And that's because the profit margins.

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<v Speaker 1>Are still decent.

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<v Speaker 4>But what is it Well, a few weeks ago it

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<v Speaker 4>was twenty nine thirty, so it was not responding in

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<v Speaker 4>the normal way.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I like it. By the way, I love

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<v Speaker 1>the Shillopee.

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<v Speaker 2>I always look at the Shillopee for all markets, but

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<v Speaker 2>it doesn't do us much good.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, I'm I think, and you should because it's it's

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<v Speaker 3>better than most, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's perfect.

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<v Speaker 3>But yeah, But one thing I was going to say

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<v Speaker 3>is that it's interesting if you look at what he

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<v Speaker 3>says about VC Adventured Capital, he's effectively saying that he

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<v Speaker 3>still believes in US exceptionalism. So it's really interesting that

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<v Speaker 3>on the one hand, he's actually basically saying the US

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<v Speaker 3>is a better economy and a better entrepreneurial environment than

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<v Speaker 3>anywhere else in the world, which is hard to disagree with.

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<v Speaker 3>But also he's simultaneously sort of saying that that's not

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<v Speaker 3>enough to justify the massive premium that the US trades at.

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<v Speaker 3>And while I think I kind of agree with that,

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<v Speaker 3>on the other hand, there is a part of me

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<v Speaker 3>that's sort of starting to think, actually, maybe the US

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<v Speaker 3>is just better and it is just the place that's

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<v Speaker 3>the most friendly home to money, and money does go

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<v Speaker 3>where it's best treated, and perhaps the real story of

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<v Speaker 3>the last fifteen years I'm not sure I agree with

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<v Speaker 3>it is that actually America is the only place where

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<v Speaker 3>I kind of risk capital is treated. The treatment of

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<v Speaker 3>risk capital has been either the same or only a

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<v Speaker 3>bit worse than it has been deteriorating in the rest

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<v Speaker 3>of the world. I mean they have been you look

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<v Speaker 3>at the UK investment environment, you know, in the last

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<v Speaker 3>fifteen years, and I think it's fair to say that

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<v Speaker 3>in terms of regulation and in terms of political approval

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<v Speaker 3>has deteriorated. You know, people are anti capitalism in a

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<v Speaker 3>way that they went kind of fifteen twenty years ago.

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<v Speaker 3>So you know, I think that's an interesting almost contradiction there,

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<v Speaker 3>and it certainly got me thinking.

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<v Speaker 2>It is interesting because if you believe in American exceptionalism,

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<v Speaker 2>and we did talk about bench capitalism quite a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of we talked about the last time I entreated him

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<v Speaker 2>as well, and he said that an awful lot of

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<v Speaker 2>his foundations money in particular, is in venture capital one

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<v Speaker 2>way or another for these very reasons, because of the

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<v Speaker 2>US treats entrepreneurs in a completely different way to the

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<v Speaker 2>rest of US.

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<v Speaker 4>But in the long run, it is amazing the quality

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<v Speaker 4>of the people the American VC industry attracts. It's getting

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<v Speaker 4>the best and the brightest who used to go into

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<v Speaker 4>consulting or Goldman SAG and now they go into VC

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<v Speaker 4>and startups and they come from all over the world.

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<v Speaker 4>At least a quarter of the bosses of all the

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<v Speaker 4>VC companies we talked to were not born in America.

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<v Speaker 4>And what an achievement for the US. We have the

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<v Speaker 4>great research universities fifteen of the twenty and most of

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<v Speaker 4>the rest are in the UK, but the fifteen great

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<v Speaker 4>research universities are the bedrock for so many of these

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<v Speaker 4>VC And you add that to a societal attitude to

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<v Speaker 4>taking risk in the US is simply much better than Europe.

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<v Speaker 2>But you know, a lot of money must have been

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<v Speaker 2>lost there. But he still was extremely keen in this

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<v Speaker 2>podcast to discuss that. And you might think, as you

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<v Speaker 2>say that, if you believed that, then you'd also believe that,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the small number of stocks, the seven right

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<v Speaker 2>stocks that have been leading with the US market higher

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<v Speaker 2>and higher, deserve the valuation.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And I mean, to be fair, he did basically

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<v Speaker 3>say that if you although you shouldn't invest in the

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<v Speaker 3>US because it's too expensive, if you do have to

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<v Speaker 3>invest in the US. As far as I could see,

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<v Speaker 3>he was saying the magnificent seven are the ones to

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<v Speaker 3>invest in, because he was.

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<v Speaker 1>He was saying he was in quality.

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<v Speaker 2>And if you look at the GMA work, it normally says,

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<v Speaker 2>you know that in an environment like this, you should

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<v Speaker 2>buy stuff that is high quality and cheap, although god

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<v Speaker 2>knows what that is these days.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, a cheap relative to war. I mean, I think

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<v Speaker 3>the other interesting thing was, and this is anodd thing

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<v Speaker 3>I've always found interesting about Grant them because one of

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<v Speaker 3>the big things that all they talk about the kind

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<v Speaker 3>of green energy stuff and one thing, and obviously he's

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<v Speaker 3>very committed to climate change and you know, funds a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of research into and things like that. And one

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<v Speaker 3>thing I remember is that one of the very few

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<v Speaker 3>big calls that he made that was wrong and where

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<v Speaker 3>he very clearly went against his own understanding the bubbles

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<v Speaker 3>was in twenty eleven, the peak of the commodities bubble,

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<v Speaker 3>he wrote a big report that basically said, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>commodities are massively overpriced compared to their history, and went

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<v Speaker 3>through all of these reasons as to why they were expensive,

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<v Speaker 3>but then sort of shot circuited the logical conclusion, which

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<v Speaker 3>was to say it was in a bubble. And he said,

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<v Speaker 3>but this is going to carry on because basically we're

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<v Speaker 3>running out and China's going to kind of chew up

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<v Speaker 3>all of the you know, the resources. And of course

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<v Speaker 3>that turned out to be incorrect. And that's one thing

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<v Speaker 3>I found interest because I felt that his own cognitive

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<v Speaker 3>biases kind of misled him to short circuit his process.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's why I guess I take some of the

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<v Speaker 3>stuff he says on that front way a big pinch

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<v Speaker 3>of salt, because I think that he is kind of

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<v Speaker 3>clearly has that that's his thing, that's that's where it's

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<v Speaker 3>cognitive biased kicks in.

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<v Speaker 2>A lot of it.

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<v Speaker 3>Said, that was interesting to hear him acknowledge that if

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<v Speaker 3>we want to get to that zero, then we're going

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<v Speaker 3>to have to use a lot more fossil fuels.

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<v Speaker 2>In the meantime, it's interesting, as mat you talk about this,

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<v Speaker 2>that she's demand for resources up front.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's something that that people.

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<v Speaker 2>Are only just beginning to grasp that in order to

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<v Speaker 2>get to the clean side, we have to do a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of really really grubby stuff first.

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<v Speaker 4>Really really grubby stuff, and even in the long run,

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<v Speaker 4>you need a lot of metals which are grubby in

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<v Speaker 4>order to get to a green world. Sorry, guys, sorry,

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<v Speaker 4>you purist, There is no way around that one.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there's no clean root to clean no.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's something you don't often hear the more shall

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<v Speaker 3>we see ideological can only you know green people saying

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<v Speaker 3>it's like.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, most of them think lysium just come down of it,

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<v Speaker 2>right or they certainly exactly, they do exactly. And so

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of the things that we talked about around

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<v Speaker 2>climate change, around energy transition, et cetera, had them being

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<v Speaker 2>extremely straightforward and pragmatic, just like what the interview we

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<v Speaker 2>did with a Conway while back saying you know, we

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<v Speaker 2>have to get really really grubby before we can get

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<v Speaker 2>anywhere near clean and accepting the amount of digging and

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<v Speaker 2>mining that needs to be done as a result.

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<v Speaker 1>And you're right, we don't.

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<v Speaker 2>We don't hear that often. So that was that was interesting,

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<v Speaker 2>although we didn't think, I want to talk about how

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<v Speaker 2>one might investor as a result of that. And I

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<v Speaker 2>know that GMO is still extremely keen on investing, in

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<v Speaker 2>particular in clean energy stocks, even though they've had a

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<v Speaker 2>pretty horrible time, a really really horrible time, but I

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<v Speaker 2>suspect that they think that's probably a sector that people

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<v Speaker 2>should still be invested in.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean, I suppose one of those things, isn't

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<v Speaker 3>it we are. It's like any new technology, you can't

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<v Speaker 3>dedict which one's going to be the market we at

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<v Speaker 3>the end of the tam it's ruled out. It is

0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:05.959
<v Speaker 3>the reason everyone bought in Vedia for the AI scene,

0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:08.960
<v Speaker 3>which that also came up then too.

0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:12.520
<v Speaker 1>Did we covered everything everything?

0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:16.960
<v Speaker 3>Did you say that it was a really good interview.

0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:23.920
<v Speaker 3>One thing that kind of was somewhat glaring by its

0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:26.960
<v Speaker 3>near absence was talk about the bond market.

0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:30.400
<v Speaker 1>I think we took it as given.

0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:32.560
<v Speaker 2>I think it was an assumption for in Jermy and

0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:36.439
<v Speaker 2>I that both of the sovereign bond market bubble around

0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:40.120
<v Speaker 2>the world as over, that it's burst, and that bonds

0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:43.160
<v Speaker 2>are still high, and that that is that is why

0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:45.560
<v Speaker 2>it's entirely possibly did so at one point during the podcast,

0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:48.440
<v Speaker 2>not a forecast, but a comment entirely possible mathematically that

0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:52.439
<v Speaker 2>the US market could go down another fifty percent. That

0:12:52.840 --> 0:12:55.520
<v Speaker 2>was that was a reference to bond Authentic Talks. As

0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:57.360
<v Speaker 2>you remember, we talked about the Russell two thousand.

0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:03.520
<v Speaker 4>The most vulnerable area, in my opinion, is the Russell

0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:07.559
<v Speaker 4>two thousand is a good measure of where the vulnerabilities

0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:12.560
<v Speaker 4>will be. The Russell two thousand often has no collective

0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:16.800
<v Speaker 4>earnings at all. It has a very high density of zombies,

0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:20.959
<v Speaker 4>companies that really can only pay their interest payments by

0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:24.960
<v Speaker 4>issuing more debt. It has never been higher than it

0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:28.720
<v Speaker 4>is today, and they have a very high ratio something

0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:32.720
<v Speaker 4>like forty percent, don't have positive earnings, and they have

0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:34.960
<v Speaker 4>record debt. They have never had this kind of debt.

0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:38.080
<v Speaker 4>So they're vulnerable on the debt front, vulnerable on the

0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:42.680
<v Speaker 4>financial front, and vulnerable on a broad economic front. And

0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:47.400
<v Speaker 4>this is the interesting thing. The Russell two thousand is

0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:51.640
<v Speaker 4>not up in real terms for the last year. It's

0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:55.640
<v Speaker 4>not up over two years, and really surprising, it's not

0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:59.000
<v Speaker 4>up over five years. It's actually down quite a bit

0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:00.120
<v Speaker 4>over five years.

0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:05.760
<v Speaker 5>So it is showing its vulnerability that is, et cetera,

0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:08.960
<v Speaker 5>because two thousands already down an awful lot, and so

0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:10.720
<v Speaker 5>some of the other things that we talked about, But

0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:13.679
<v Speaker 5>so I think that was that was really where an

0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:15.680
<v Speaker 5>acceptance from both of us that we agreed on the

0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:18.520
<v Speaker 5>bond market bubble being over was there.

0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:22.080
<v Speaker 2>And then we talked we talked about other markets. So

0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:24.320
<v Speaker 2>we talked about Japan a little bit. Well, the other

0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:26.200
<v Speaker 2>cheap markets. We talked about Japan a little, and we

0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:28.360
<v Speaker 2>talked about the UK a little, and these were both

0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:31.520
<v Speaker 2>markets that he was interested in. Although of course there's

0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:33.600
<v Speaker 2>the point that you know, the US market would go

0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:35.640
<v Speaker 2>down fifty percent. I repeat, that was not a forecast.

0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:37.920
<v Speaker 2>If it's just a mathematical comment. If we did, then

0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:39.520
<v Speaker 2>everything else would go down a lot as well.

0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:44.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that is the tricky thing at presumably they just

0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:45.360
<v Speaker 3>wouldn't go down as much.

0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:52.640
<v Speaker 6>Well, you know what happens in Japan, right, you know,

0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:55.000
<v Speaker 6>you always saying things are fine and it's cheap, and

0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:58.680
<v Speaker 6>it's quality, and it reached to escape, escape the lots

0:14:58.680 --> 0:14:58.800
<v Speaker 6>to do.

0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:01.360
<v Speaker 2>There's a virtual was so there, et cetera, et cetera,

0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:03.320
<v Speaker 2>and then you know something happened in the Japanese market

0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:05.600
<v Speaker 2>goes down more than other markets. So you can never

0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:07.400
<v Speaker 2>take the stuff as a given.

0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:11.760
<v Speaker 3>If hearts again this team, I'm just I'm swelling north

0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:13.040
<v Speaker 3>jump of these stocks.

0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:21.920
<v Speaker 2>Listen. We did get I got some pushback from a

0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:24.240
<v Speaker 2>because we asked Jem at the end about gold and bitcoin,

0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:26.760
<v Speaker 2>and I think we would all have predicted that he

0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:28.520
<v Speaker 2>would say gold localse.

0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:30.520
<v Speaker 1>She did say gold was the least bad of the three,

0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:30.920
<v Speaker 1>and I see.

0:15:30.920 --> 0:15:32.680
<v Speaker 2>I think John, at some point quite soon we should

0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:35.840
<v Speaker 2>do a whole podcast on gold and why to invest

0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:37.880
<v Speaker 2>in gold and when gold was good and money. It

0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:39.520
<v Speaker 2>isn't bad because we mentioned it at the end, but

0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:41.120
<v Speaker 2>we've never done a full one on it.

0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:41.800
<v Speaker 1>Anyway.

0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:44.880
<v Speaker 2>I got an email from one of our listeners saying that,

0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:47.760
<v Speaker 2>of course you and I and Jeremy don't understand gold

0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:51.200
<v Speaker 2>because we live in a stable country and we're not criminals.

0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:53.960
<v Speaker 2>But if we lived in an unstable country and we

0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:56.600
<v Speaker 2>were a drug dealer or a money launderer or something

0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:59.640
<v Speaker 2>like that, then we would absolutely understand why bitcoin is

0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:00.920
<v Speaker 2>the current, say of the future.

0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:04.120
<v Speaker 3>Okay, so he says, bitcoins. So because you said, you

0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:07.440
<v Speaker 3>said that we don't understand gold. No, no, no, we

0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:08.160
<v Speaker 3>do understand.

0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:12.560
<v Speaker 1>God, you don't understand I've said before.

0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:13.000
<v Speaker 2>Right.

0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:18.480
<v Speaker 3>Look, bitcoin is a good way to move money across

0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:24.040
<v Speaker 3>borders where you can't sell gold coins into your you know,

0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:26.640
<v Speaker 3>coat pockets or whatever. I actually agree with that. I

0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:30.520
<v Speaker 3>think that that is the use case that is very

0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:37.160
<v Speaker 3>different to becoming you know, like this global currency system.

0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:41.160
<v Speaker 3>This is what I don't. They remind me a lot

0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:45.760
<v Speaker 3>the crypto guys of the hardcore kind of gold bugs

0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:49.200
<v Speaker 3>ahead of two thousand and eight, where the idea wasn't

0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:52.080
<v Speaker 3>just that gold was useful for X or y or

0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:54.520
<v Speaker 3>is the portfolio insurance. It was the idea that gold

0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:57.640
<v Speaker 3>was going to regain its one true place as the

0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:00.680
<v Speaker 3>kind of natural money of the world. It was going

0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:01.920
<v Speaker 3>to take over the financial sense.

0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:03.800
<v Speaker 1>Still haven't could still happen.

0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:07.280
<v Speaker 3>Believe I add an awful lot of sympathy with that

0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:10.040
<v Speaker 3>of you, And it's one reason why I sort of

0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:13.679
<v Speaker 3>sympathized with the bitcoiners, because I recognize the idealism, but

0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:18.560
<v Speaker 3>it's it is idealism and it is deluded. It's not

0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:22.640
<v Speaker 3>Cody Harton, So yeah, I agree with him. He's right,

0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:25.400
<v Speaker 3>Beckcoin is a good way. It moves money across borders

0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:28.080
<v Speaker 3>when you don't when you unequet the money out of

0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:30.679
<v Speaker 3>the country because you're you know, haven't you flee the

0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:32.720
<v Speaker 3>country or because you're drug I.

0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:34.479
<v Speaker 2>Do on the matter of that, on the matter of

0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:36.679
<v Speaker 2>crime and go global collapse and that sort of thing.

0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:38.159
<v Speaker 2>I do want to mention that Jeremy and I did

0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:40.160
<v Speaker 2>talk quite a bit off the end of the podcast

0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:42.600
<v Speaker 2>after we turned the recording off rather irritatingly. We talked

0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:44.800
<v Speaker 2>rather a lot about the things that really concerned him.

0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:49.040
<v Speaker 2>He's very worried about general toxic soxicity across the world.

0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:51.000
<v Speaker 2>He's much more worried about climate change, and I think

0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:54.040
<v Speaker 2>if it came across in that conversation, and he's very,

0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:57.280
<v Speaker 2>very worried about inequality. So when when he looks at

0:17:57.400 --> 0:17:59.600
<v Speaker 2>money and markets these days, he tends to see things

0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:02.280
<v Speaker 2>through a different lens than perhaps he did during the

0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:04.520
<v Speaker 2>main part of his career. So that was quite an

0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:05.960
<v Speaker 2>interesting conversation as well.

0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:12.120
<v Speaker 3>That's I mean, that's interesting my own view and inequality.

0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:14.080
<v Speaker 3>I'm sure kind of match is used, which is that

0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:19.200
<v Speaker 3>you know, the capitalist, free market system of allocating resources

0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:22.400
<v Speaker 3>gives you the best outcome. That doesn't mean that it's perfect,

0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:24.640
<v Speaker 3>but it's a bit like democracy from that point of view.

0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:26.760
<v Speaker 3>You know, it's the worst system except all of the

0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:29.159
<v Speaker 3>rest of them. So anyone who kind of comes at this,

0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:31.600
<v Speaker 3>particularly when they've got the soft cushion of you know.

0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:33.120
<v Speaker 1>Massive wealth.

0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:36.399
<v Speaker 3>There are many hundreds of millions, yeah, massive, Well, then

0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:40.320
<v Speaker 3>I think the f to kind of just maybe count

0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:43.399
<v Speaker 3>their blessings rather than deciding that what for them. But

0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:44.760
<v Speaker 3>it's not going to work for everyone else.

0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:49.840
<v Speaker 2>Quite now, there is one piece by GMO that people

0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:52.240
<v Speaker 2>should go away and reread. They have access to it,

0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:54.200
<v Speaker 2>if not all time, put it up, so I might

0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:56.359
<v Speaker 2>ask GM if I can pop it up somewhere. It

0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:58.639
<v Speaker 2>is something that generally wrote back in March two thousand

0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:00.920
<v Speaker 2>and nine. And I know there's a lot of people

0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:03.520
<v Speaker 2>out there who say, Jeremy, you know, always wrong, But

0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:06.680
<v Speaker 2>in March two thousand and nine Jeremy Grant them wrote

0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:10.119
<v Speaker 2>a piece encouraging everybody to have a battle plan for

0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:13.240
<v Speaker 2>reinvestment and to get on with it. And now we're

0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:15.320
<v Speaker 2>not anywhere near that point in markets at the moment,

0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:18.760
<v Speaker 2>but it's quite a good little piece explaining how brave

0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:21.119
<v Speaker 2>you have to be and they have to overcome your

0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:24.199
<v Speaker 2>terror when markets are genuinely cheap, and you need to

0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:27.240
<v Speaker 2>be ready to turn when all looks black, but just

0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:29.720
<v Speaker 2>to subtle shade less black than the day before. Now,

0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:31.560
<v Speaker 2>I don't know when that day will come in markets,

0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:33.240
<v Speaker 2>but you know there's bound to be a day like

0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:35.480
<v Speaker 2>it ahead, So we might try to get that piece

0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:37.280
<v Speaker 2>up somewhere for listeners to have a look at.

0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:41.520
<v Speaker 3>Oh, definitely, that's a great piece. I'm pretty sure it

0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:43.200
<v Speaker 3>was will very short.

0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:44.800
<v Speaker 2>And that when it comes to when it comes to

0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:51.159
<v Speaker 2>research like this very short, it's very good. Thanks for

0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:53.760
<v Speaker 2>listening to this week's Marin Talks Money the after Show.

0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:57.000
<v Speaker 2>This episode was hosted by me Maren Somerset Web alongside

0:19:57.080 --> 0:20:00.200
<v Speaker 2>John Staffek. It was produced by Someersiety additional editing by

0:20:00.240 --> 0:20:01.080
<v Speaker 2>Blake Naples