WEBVTT - WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to stuff you should know a production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's

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<v Speaker 2>Chuck and Jerry's here too. And I guess it's a

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<v Speaker 2>new year because I just had the spirit of John

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<v Speaker 2>Strickland passed through me when I welcome everybody. Did you

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<v Speaker 2>hear that enthusiastic he.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, a little bit of a well not a CoA.

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<v Speaker 3>I guess, just sort of an updating is this is

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<v Speaker 3>our first recording of the New Year, and we had

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<v Speaker 3>our longest break ever. You know, I think everyone knows

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<v Speaker 3>we take a nice long Christmas break, but this year

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<v Speaker 3>it stretched into November, and so we've been gone for

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<v Speaker 3>a long time. Yeah, And I'm like, do I even

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<v Speaker 3>know how to do this anymore?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Same here. I keep making this your sound whenever

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<v Speaker 2>I move.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh no, don't do that.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't help it. It's just I'm that rusty.

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<v Speaker 3>And also this topic, it's good, but it's uh. We'll

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<v Speaker 3>try and keep it as streamlined and easy to understand

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<v Speaker 3>as possible. There's a lot of moving pieces, sure, and

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<v Speaker 3>there's a lot of Norwegian names that we've I still

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<v Speaker 3>don't know how to say the letter with like the

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<v Speaker 3>null set.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh. I think it's like a bum laut.

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<v Speaker 3>Is it? Okay? I mean I'm gonna treat him as zoomlouds.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm pretty sure it's the same thing as anomlout.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, Okay, we're still gonna screw up some of this.

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<v Speaker 3>But don't worry about the names too much. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>we should just name everyone, you know, Bill one, Bill two,

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<v Speaker 3>Bill three.

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<v Speaker 2>Right or leaf tu.

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<v Speaker 3>But anyway, we're gonna give it our best. Go. Welcome back,

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<v Speaker 3>my friend. I'm glad to be back in the studio

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<v Speaker 3>after this wonderful break.

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<v Speaker 2>Same here, man, same here. Welcome back yourself. So, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>we're talking today about one of the more unsung operations

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<v Speaker 2>of World War Two. Unsung, I guess depending on where

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<v Speaker 2>you live. If you live in Norway, it's song all

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<v Speaker 2>over the place. It's like a top forty hit there.

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<v Speaker 2>It's sung so much.

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<v Speaker 3>What is now? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it took a little while, didn't it weirdly? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>But here in the US we don't know about it

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<v Speaker 2>as much because we were kind of tangential to it,

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<v Speaker 2>if at all. It was more a joint operation between

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<v Speaker 2>the Brits and the Norwegians. The Norwegian Resistance, we should say,

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<v Speaker 2>and the whole thing is called Operation Gunner Side. And

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<v Speaker 2>I have to say I want to give a big

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<v Speaker 2>thanks to one of our listeners, Matthew me malt Butuchard,

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<v Speaker 2>who suggested this one. I think back in November. Oh wow,

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<v Speaker 2>and it got it went right to the top of

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<v Speaker 2>the list. So here we are talking about it now

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<v Speaker 2>in January.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'm sure you got that email and you're like,

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<v Speaker 3>unsung saboteur story defeating the Nazis, but still my heart.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So the whole thing kind of starts off. I

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<v Speaker 2>think back in like nineteen thirty nine when some German

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<v Speaker 2>physicists figured out that you could split the atom through

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<v Speaker 2>fission and release a bunch of energy. And very very

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<v Speaker 2>quickly after that, physicists around the world were like, this

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<v Speaker 2>is really great. We can come up with a whole

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<v Speaker 2>new source of energy for it. This could also be

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<v Speaker 2>an extremely dangerous weapon. And right after that, World War

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<v Speaker 2>II started and the Allies started working on the bomb,

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<v Speaker 2>and they assumed that the Nazis were also working on

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<v Speaker 2>a bomb. So that's kind of like the mentality that

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<v Speaker 2>was going on with this story really starts.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean it was sort of a race to

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<v Speaker 3>see who could get there first. And I mean I

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<v Speaker 3>learned a lot researching this. I didn't know a lot

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<v Speaker 3>about a lot of this stuff, even though we've done

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<v Speaker 3>episodes about nuclear fission and the like. But there's more

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<v Speaker 3>than one way to skin a cat, as it turns out,

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<v Speaker 3>if you want to try and make a reaction big

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<v Speaker 3>enough to cause a big boom. And one of the

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<v Speaker 3>routes that was taken by well, not the Americans, I

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<v Speaker 3>guess the Germans were trying to take this route was

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<v Speaker 3>to use something called heavy water AKA how would you

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<v Speaker 3>say that? Deuterium oxide Okay, D two O, which is

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<v Speaker 3>like H two Oh, it's like regular water. This heavy

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<v Speaker 3>water is except instead of normal hydrogen atom, there as

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<v Speaker 3>an H twoo that is now replaced by hydrogen isotope deuterium,

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<v Speaker 3>which makes it literally heavier.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and the reason why is because deuterium has a

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<v Speaker 2>neutron where hydrogen doesn't. That's the only difference. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>it's still you could cook with it, you could bathe

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<v Speaker 2>in it. You probably wouldn't really notice any difference because

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<v Speaker 2>it's two atomic units heavier, so it's not like you

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<v Speaker 2>would like be crushed down to the shower floor, if

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<v Speaker 2>you had it running through your house or anything.

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<v Speaker 3>Or water balloon, fight the kid. The kid's using heavy.

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<v Speaker 2>One exactly, given kids black eyes at that thing. Yeah. So,

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<v Speaker 2>but the reason that it was useful or is useful

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<v Speaker 2>still in nuclear reactions is because of that neutron that

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<v Speaker 2>it has. Right, So, when you carry out a nuclear

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<v Speaker 2>reaction that produces an explosion, you have an uncontrolled nuclear reaction.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the one that where it just goes kaboom and

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<v Speaker 2>a huge amount of energy is released at once.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's the whole point.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, for the bomb part. But to make the stuff

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<v Speaker 2>that actually blows up, usually plutonium, you have to carry

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<v Speaker 2>out controlled nuclear reactions, and to make it controlled to

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<v Speaker 2>kind of bring some order to the chaos and slow

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<v Speaker 2>things down just enough that it will never explode, yet

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<v Speaker 2>it will still produce energy that you can use to

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<v Speaker 2>create plutonium. If you bash uranium with a bunch of neutrons,

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<v Speaker 2>you add a moderator, and heavy water is a moderator

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<v Speaker 2>because all those fast neutrons bouncing around will knock into

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<v Speaker 2>the heavy water and it will transfer energy to the

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<v Speaker 2>heavy water's neutrons, but it slows the process down. In

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<v Speaker 2>the same way. You couldn't use regular water because regular

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<v Speaker 2>water would be like, oh, thanks for the free neutron jump,

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<v Speaker 2>and turn into heavy water. I guess, so regular water

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<v Speaker 2>wouldn't work. Heavy water would work. The problem is is

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<v Speaker 2>heavy water's really really rare.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's super rare, and it takes a long time

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<v Speaker 3>to get just a little bit of it. I think

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<v Speaker 3>it's like, if you're just looking at a regular water source,

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<v Speaker 3>there's one deuterium oxide molecule for about every twenty million

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<v Speaker 3>regular ones. So it's not needle in a haystack territory

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<v Speaker 3>molecularly speaking, but it's not far off. The Germans went

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<v Speaker 3>the route of heavy water as their moderator. The Americans

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<v Speaker 3>looked around for a moderator, and they said, what about

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<v Speaker 3>Josh Clark. He's a pretty levelheaded guy.

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<v Speaker 2>I just show up with my note cards in a blazer.

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<v Speaker 3>By the way, our first side track of the year.

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<v Speaker 3>I remember A reminded Ruby last night that we had

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<v Speaker 3>a TV show for the probably fifteenth time in her life,

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<v Speaker 3>and she's like, you did, And we tried again and

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<v Speaker 3>actually watched an entire episode which one we watched, the

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<v Speaker 3>one with John Hodgman, and also starring my neighbor Catherine,

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<v Speaker 3>which was the final episode. How we wrote it but

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<v Speaker 3>not the final episode and how it aired, right, We

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<v Speaker 3>won't get into that, but I have to say, dude,

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<v Speaker 3>you were like pretty good and a lot of that

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<v Speaker 3>as an actor, and I was not.

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<v Speaker 2>I disagree, you're always so hard on yourself. You were great, man.

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<v Speaker 2>You were at least as good as I was. And

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<v Speaker 2>that's to say you were middling.

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<v Speaker 3>I think I think you're It's very nice of you

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<v Speaker 3>to say, but like from an I think I had

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<v Speaker 3>a real outside point of view. Last night. I was like,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, Josh was pretty good in a lot of this,

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<v Speaker 3>and Emily said he really was, And I said, I

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<v Speaker 3>never felt that comfortable and like I was doing a

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<v Speaker 3>good job like every once in a while I was okay,

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<v Speaker 3>But I think you had real possibilities as an actor.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, thank you. I appreciate that. It was probably from

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<v Speaker 2>a year spin as an emo drama kid.

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<v Speaker 3>It was pretty good. Thanks and Ruby made it through

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<v Speaker 3>the episode and I was like, Hey, that's our neighbor

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<v Speaker 3>and that's John, you know John, so that I think,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, helped hold our interest a little bit more.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that was like the space one.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, that was a good one. It

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<v Speaker 3>was was pretty good. So long way of saying, you

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<v Speaker 3>were not available as moderator because you weren't born yet.

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<v Speaker 3>So the US ended up pursuing graphite as a moderator.

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<v Speaker 3>Either one can be used. We went graphite. The Germans,

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<v Speaker 3>I guess we'll get to there the reason they went

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<v Speaker 3>with hard water toward the end, right, yes, and tag

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<v Speaker 3>that in the end, yeah, I think so. All right,

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<v Speaker 3>So anyway, hard water is what they're after. And as

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<v Speaker 3>it turns out, there was a chemist in Norway named

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<v Speaker 3>Leif Trunstad leaf t leaf tea, yeah exactly, who was

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<v Speaker 3>who understood how to find these molecules in the best

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<v Speaker 3>way possible because he was doing it for a different

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<v Speaker 3>reason there, right, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>So Tronstad was one of these early people who was like, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>this is weird and different and new, and we can

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<v Speaker 2>figure out how to get at least very small amounts

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<v Speaker 2>of it, and there's gotta be some cool uses for this,

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<v Speaker 2>like scientific, non weapony uses. And one of the ones

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<v Speaker 2>that he thought of very early on was used as

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<v Speaker 2>a tracer, which I guess you'd give somebody a glass

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<v Speaker 2>of heavy water and then you know, look at their

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<v Speaker 2>kidneys and see if there's heavy water coming out of

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<v Speaker 2>them and be like, well, there's your leak, right, that's

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<v Speaker 2>what I.

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<v Speaker 3>Think, Yeah, exactly. So that's why he was pursuing it.

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<v Speaker 3>And he was doing that for a company called Themork

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<v Speaker 3>Norse not Norst or Norse norsek with a k hydro plant,

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<v Speaker 3>and that was in the county of of course Telemark.

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<v Speaker 2>Right in the country of I guess Norway, right, sure, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>look out a word like Norse confront of you. You're

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<v Speaker 2>talking Norway.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah. So he's at work producing a few milliliters of

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<v Speaker 3>that uh what like every day or so.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, from like leaders and leaders and gallons of water.

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<v Speaker 2>They would just get the tiniest amounts because I still

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<v Speaker 2>don't quite understand how they were doing it, but essentially

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<v Speaker 2>they were separating out this one and twenty million molecule

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<v Speaker 2>of heavy water from regular mountain water.

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<v Speaker 3>That Norse black magic, yeah, and.

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<v Speaker 2>So like the whole plant was originally a hydroelectric power plant,

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<v Speaker 2>and then they converted to using electrolysis to I think

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<v Speaker 2>create ammonia, which is very handy, and fertilizers and explosives,

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<v Speaker 2>and then it was Tronstadt, who was like, we need

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<v Speaker 2>to set up basically a separate heavy water operation. So

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<v Speaker 2>by the time World War two broke out, the plant

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<v Speaker 2>at Vermork I'm pretty sure I said that, right, Vermoork Invermindy, Sody,

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<v Speaker 2>ver Morek Invernment. Yeah, okay, it just took a second.

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, well, I'm going to laugh at it.

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<v Speaker 3>I was making sure I didn't screw something else up. Sorry,

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<v Speaker 3>that's a quality joke.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you. By that time that plant was the world

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<v Speaker 2>leader in heavy water production.

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<v Speaker 3>That's right, all right, So park that to the side.

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<v Speaker 3>They're producing heavy water at a rate no one had

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<v Speaker 3>ever seen, like a cupful of day. And World War

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<v Speaker 3>Two begins in nineteen thirty nine, and like I said,

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<v Speaker 3>the Germans were like, hey, we should try and get

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<v Speaker 3>on this heavy water train, and they didn't. This not

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<v Speaker 3>why they invaded Norway. They invaded Norway because they were Nazis.

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<v Speaker 3>Norway was neutral, had declared themselves neutral. But in April

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<v Speaker 3>nineteen forty they invaded Anyway and were defeated pretty quickly.

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<v Speaker 3>It took a couple of months, even though they had

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<v Speaker 3>help from the Allied so they were no match for

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<v Speaker 3>the German army and the Germans did as they do.

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<v Speaker 3>They established a Nazi government there, and the people did

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<v Speaker 3>not like that because they're Norwegian. They were like, no, no, no,

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<v Speaker 3>We're going to resist it, went on strike here in there.

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<v Speaker 3>They didn't cooperate in other ways to kind of just

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<v Speaker 3>you know, get in the way of progress of Nazi progress.

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<v Speaker 3>And so the Nazi says, all right, martial law has

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<v Speaker 3>been declared. If you resist, you will be put to death.

0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:19.080
<v Speaker 3>And so a lot of Norwegians left, obviously fought from

0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:20.880
<v Speaker 3>other places, and a lot of them said, you know what,

0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:23.120
<v Speaker 3>We're going to stay here and maybe work with the

0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:25.400
<v Speaker 3>Allies kind of undercover as moles.

0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:28.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's like a secret resistance, right, And one of

0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:33.160
<v Speaker 2>those people was Tronstad, at least at first, and then

0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:35.679
<v Speaker 2>it became clear that he basically needed to get out

0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:38.640
<v Speaker 2>of Dodge, so he ditched and went to I think

0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:42.880
<v Speaker 2>he went straight to the UK because after the Nazis

0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:45.360
<v Speaker 2>set up this program like it was, it was not

0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:48.360
<v Speaker 2>a pleasant place to be when they took over Norway

0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:51.600
<v Speaker 2>and the whole thing. Chuck reminded me of do you remember,

0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:56.160
<v Speaker 2>way way way early in the podcast, we stumbled upon Simohaya,

0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:59.280
<v Speaker 2>the White Death, the Finnish sniper who was just like

0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:02.079
<v Speaker 2>a farm boy who like I think, killed more Russians

0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:07.640
<v Speaker 2>than anybody else in the war. Yeah, I just remembered

0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:10.480
<v Speaker 2>sim Ohaya, so I thought i'd give him a shout out.

0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:13.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but I'm surprised you called up that name. Nice work.

0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:18.800
<v Speaker 2>So but Leif Tronstad, he became like a really valuable

0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:21.640
<v Speaker 2>asset because this guy is like the world leader in

0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:25.920
<v Speaker 2>heavy water production, who has all of the inside dirt

0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:30.040
<v Speaker 2>on the place where the most heavy water is being produced.

0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:33.480
<v Speaker 2>And it's very clear now that the Nazis have taken

0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:35.400
<v Speaker 2>over this plant and stepped it up from like a

0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:37.560
<v Speaker 2>few millileters a day to like, I think a few

0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:41.960
<v Speaker 2>kilograms of heavy water a day, that they have designs

0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:45.600
<v Speaker 2>on making an atomic bomb. And then with the Allies,

0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:50.559
<v Speaker 2>the three words Nazi atomic bomb was among the most

0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:53.600
<v Speaker 2>frightening combination of words you could possibly come up with.

0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:57.040
<v Speaker 2>And even today you know, you're like, got a Nazi

0:13:57.040 --> 0:13:59.800
<v Speaker 2>atomic bomb, that'd be horrible, And then you remember, oh, yeah,

0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:03.120
<v Speaker 2>the Americans dropped two atomic bombs on population centers and

0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:06.920
<v Speaker 2>that was pretty bad too. Yet still, somehow Nazi atomic

0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:08.160
<v Speaker 2>bomb seems even worse.

0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:11.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it does. So he, like you said, went to

0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:15.760
<v Speaker 3>the UK. There he met up in real life with

0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:18.960
<v Speaker 3>the intelligence people he'd been working with, you know, on

0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:21.200
<v Speaker 3>the down low from a long distance, which imagine was

0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:24.920
<v Speaker 3>a pretty fun meeting. They probably hit some tea and

0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:30.640
<v Speaker 3>caught up in person. And he started training these commando

0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:35.320
<v Speaker 3>units to be saboteurs to eventually do their their you know,

0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:39.320
<v Speaker 3>saboteur work in Norway, and the whole time was staying

0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:42.160
<v Speaker 3>in contact with his allies at the at the plant

0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:46.400
<v Speaker 3>there at Vmork and eventually, and we're just gonna say

0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:49.800
<v Speaker 3>these names again. I wish we could all nickname them

0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:51.960
<v Speaker 3>all to make it easier to keep up with. But

0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:54.560
<v Speaker 3>one of the guys there that he kept in touch with,

0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:56.280
<v Speaker 3>who will play it part in this story, is named

0:14:57.040 --> 0:15:02.760
<v Speaker 3>Ainar skinner Land. That's pretty easy. Yeah. Uh, swallow Blue

0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:05.880
<v Speaker 3>was his code name. And that feels like a pretty

0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:06.800
<v Speaker 3>good place for a break.

0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:07.520
<v Speaker 2>I think it is.

0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:10.280
<v Speaker 3>Yes, all right, so we do remember how to do this,

0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:12.240
<v Speaker 3>and we'll be right back right after this.

0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:14.000
<v Speaker 1>I want to learn about a terris ort and call

0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:17.080
<v Speaker 1>it treadactyl, how to take a bergery, all about fractals

0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:31.480
<v Speaker 1>gone that's another hunt the Liz Plane everything. Word up, Jerry.

0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:41.640
<v Speaker 2>Chuck. Have you seen that movie The Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare.

0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:45.720
<v Speaker 2>It's like a Newish guy ritchie movie. No, it's pretty good.

0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:49.440
<v Speaker 2>Actually all right, it's like an easy watch, like there's

0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:52.840
<v Speaker 2>it's not some big, huge sweeping epic or something you

0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:54.880
<v Speaker 2>have to really, you know, keep up with. It's just

0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:55.920
<v Speaker 2>a kind of an.

0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:56.720
<v Speaker 3>In richie movie.

0:15:56.800 --> 0:16:00.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, right, well I would call Snatch kind of convoluted.

0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:03.600
<v Speaker 3>Oh well, sure with accents.

0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:07.840
<v Speaker 2>Sure, But there actually was something called the Ministry of

0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:10.520
<v Speaker 2>Ungentlemanly Warfare. That was the nickname for it. It was

0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:15.960
<v Speaker 2>called the Special Operations Executive officially, and they basically trained saboteurs.

0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:18.960
<v Speaker 2>So that's who Leif Tronstad threw his lot in with.

0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:21.120
<v Speaker 2>And one of the first things they did for the

0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:24.800
<v Speaker 2>Norwegians was send them to Scotland and have them train

0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:27.560
<v Speaker 2>in like extreme weather as much as they could. But

0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:30.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm thinking, like the Norwegians would be like, this is

0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:33.160
<v Speaker 2>this is like summer to us? What is this like

0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:35.120
<v Speaker 2>they I don't see why they would need to train

0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:38.120
<v Speaker 2>in Scotland, but trained they were. Yeah, And the reason

0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:41.200
<v Speaker 2>why they were trained for extreme weather and extreme conditions.

0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:45.480
<v Speaker 2>Because of the location of the the Mark power plant

0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:48.680
<v Speaker 2>or I guess heavy water plant. It was in a

0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:51.480
<v Speaker 2>really forbidding place that you would not want to go

0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:53.320
<v Speaker 2>to without like a car.

0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:55.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it was. It was tough. I would say, you'd

0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:57.360
<v Speaker 3>need one of those cool old army jeeps if you

0:16:57.360 --> 0:17:00.120
<v Speaker 3>wanted to get there. Back then, it was surrounded to

0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:05.879
<v Speaker 3>buy a plateau, a mountain plateau called here we go Hardanga,

0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:08.960
<v Speaker 3>Vita perfect. That's got to mean danger or something.

0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:12.080
<v Speaker 2>I think it actually means like wide mountain plateau.

0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:13.680
<v Speaker 3>Danger.

0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:16.760
<v Speaker 2>I looked. I looked it up because I thought so too.

0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:18.880
<v Speaker 2>I was like, that's got to be like the name

0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:21.800
<v Speaker 2>of a god that's going to kill you or something. Yeah,

0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:24.800
<v Speaker 2>it means it means high mountain plateau.

0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:30.359
<v Speaker 3>I think Vita might be a plateau really uh maybe

0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:31.639
<v Speaker 3>hard danger. I don't know.

0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:35.920
<v Speaker 2>So wait so that Oh, what was the guy's name,

0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:41.080
<v Speaker 2>Ricky Uh, I can't remember, but he was saying, like

0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:47.760
<v Speaker 2>living the plateau loco, Oh God, Ricky Martin, Ricky Martin,

0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:49.840
<v Speaker 2>Ricky Martin from Menudo.

0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:55.440
<v Speaker 3>That's right. Shout out to Bernudo. You knew that was coming.

0:17:56.200 --> 0:17:58.240
<v Speaker 3>I did not know they were going to make an appearance,

0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:01.560
<v Speaker 3>all right, So it was rounded by that mountain plateau.

0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:05.320
<v Speaker 3>It is a very very cold place. I think Livia

0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:09.919
<v Speaker 3>dug up this kind of old factoid. It freezes flames

0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:13.280
<v Speaker 3>in the fires, is how cold it was there, Not literally,

0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:15.600
<v Speaker 3>of course, but you know those Norwegians are with a

0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:19.840
<v Speaker 3>turn of a phrase. So Americans came in and they said,

0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:21.800
<v Speaker 3>why don't we just drop a bunch of bombs on

0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:25.119
<v Speaker 3>this plant? What's your problem with these saboteurs and they

0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:29.600
<v Speaker 3>said no. Tron said was like, we've got ammonia tanks there,

0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:32.399
<v Speaker 3>liquid ammonia. You're definitely going to kill a bunch of

0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:36.960
<v Speaker 3>civilians nearby. And all this stuff is underground, under concrete

0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:40.200
<v Speaker 3>and metal in these bunkers, and it probably wouldn't destroy

0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:44.159
<v Speaker 3>everything you wanted to destroy anyway. He also, you know,

0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:46.680
<v Speaker 3>didn't say this out loud, but was like, I don't

0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:49.520
<v Speaker 3>want you to destroy the only hard water plant we

0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:51.280
<v Speaker 3>have because this is a valuable thing, and all of

0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:53.879
<v Speaker 3>a sudden you would kind of own not the patent

0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:55.000
<v Speaker 3>but the process for that.

0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:58.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and after the war, who knows who's going to

0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:01.080
<v Speaker 2>need that stuff? So exactly, Yeah, it was a little

0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:03.359
<v Speaker 2>bit of national pride too, that was driving it, so

0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:06.440
<v Speaker 2>he actually talked him out of it. The Allies or

0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:09.080
<v Speaker 2>the Americans, I guess we're put off for a little while,

0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:10.720
<v Speaker 2>and they're like, all right, you go ahead and do

0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:13.600
<v Speaker 2>your little sabotage thing. Let's see how you do. So

0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:18.800
<v Speaker 2>that whole group of Norwegian resistance fighters was called Company

0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:22.080
<v Speaker 2>Ling and Company Ling I kind of made it over

0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:27.119
<v Speaker 2>as the group of trained saboteurs from the Special Operations Executive,

0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:32.879
<v Speaker 2>So Company Ling. They launched an operation Operation Grouse, great

0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:36.680
<v Speaker 2>operation name yeah, but they apparently that so he didn't

0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:39.040
<v Speaker 2>think so, because they renamed it Operation Swallow.

0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:40.240
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:42.960
<v Speaker 2>And the whole thing was led by a guy named

0:19:43.320 --> 0:19:47.160
<v Speaker 2>Jens Anton Poulsen, which I think I nailed just then,

0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:52.480
<v Speaker 2>except it's Yen's man, I saidm I nailed it. No,

0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:54.760
<v Speaker 2>you had it except for that, but that's okay, okay.

0:19:55.320 --> 0:20:00.000
<v Speaker 2>So Yen's Anton Poulsen led I think three other resis

0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:04.280
<v Speaker 2>since fighters who parachuted back in Norway and essentially just

0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:10.000
<v Speaker 2>became backwoodsmen for months, setting up like a camp literally

0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:14.000
<v Speaker 2>in like a trapper's cabin, yeah, and lived off punting

0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:17.679
<v Speaker 2>reindeer and just basically became the first little toe hold

0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:22.240
<v Speaker 2>of this operation of Norwegian resistance fighters coming back to

0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:24.200
<v Speaker 2>sabotage the Behmark plant.

0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:27.639
<v Speaker 3>Yes, exactly. So they're there, they set up their camp.

0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:31.880
<v Speaker 3>They're eating reindeer. It's very sad for reindeer.

0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:32.480
<v Speaker 2>Sad but delicious.

0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:35.000
<v Speaker 3>You've never had reindeer, have you?

0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:36.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? A couple of times.

0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:39.520
<v Speaker 3>Really No. I was about to say, where the heck

0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:40.720
<v Speaker 3>do you even get reindeer?

0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:44.440
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I'm shure that somebody sells reindeer meat

0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:47.119
<v Speaker 2>and like somewhere Weird, Missouri or something.

0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:49.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, I'm sure there's people in Main right now.

0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:51.240
<v Speaker 3>They're like, you've never had reindeer.

0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:53.879
<v Speaker 2>We always have someone across the pond here.

0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:58.320
<v Speaker 3>Right exactly. So about a month after that, they launched

0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:00.800
<v Speaker 3>another operation, Operation fresh Men, because they were like, these

0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:02.639
<v Speaker 3>guys are going to need some real, you know, some

0:21:02.760 --> 0:21:04.120
<v Speaker 3>muscle behind them.

0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:04.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:08.000
<v Speaker 3>So they sent in two air gliders with thirty nine

0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:11.000
<v Speaker 3>British soldiers and they were just kind of coming in,

0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:13.760
<v Speaker 3>you know, behind them as back up. It did not

0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:17.119
<v Speaker 3>work out so well though. One of the planes crashed

0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:20.400
<v Speaker 3>into a mountain and killed everybody on board. The other

0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:23.760
<v Speaker 3>one crashed into the ground not where they were supposed

0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:26.000
<v Speaker 3>to land, but you know, a distance from that, and

0:21:26.440 --> 0:21:28.760
<v Speaker 3>it didn't kill everybody, but they, you know, they saw

0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:33.440
<v Speaker 3>this happen. The Gestapo found the survivors and executed them, yeah,

0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:37.320
<v Speaker 3>basically on the spot, and also found a map that

0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:40.479
<v Speaker 3>showed that they were headed for the hard water plant.

0:21:41.200 --> 0:21:43.520
<v Speaker 3>They didn't locate those original people, and they just sort

0:21:43.560 --> 0:21:46.720
<v Speaker 3>of stayed there, you know, hunkering down in that cabin

0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:49.320
<v Speaker 3>for a while and surviving undetected.

0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:52.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so Operation Freshmen was, like you said it was.

0:21:52.640 --> 0:21:56.480
<v Speaker 2>The idea was just storm the heavy water plant, overwhelm it,

0:21:56.960 --> 0:22:00.800
<v Speaker 2>and blow it up. And they decided instead, okay, instead

0:22:00.800 --> 0:22:03.760
<v Speaker 2>of sending thirty nine soldiers with a ton of equipment

0:22:04.240 --> 0:22:08.160
<v Speaker 2>including bicycles, I read, we'll just try a more subtle touch.

0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:15.320
<v Speaker 2>So they went to man Joaquin Runeberg Nice who was

0:22:15.440 --> 0:22:17.680
<v Speaker 2>twenty three at the time, and they're like, you're you're

0:22:17.680 --> 0:22:21.400
<v Speaker 2>basically an old band in World War two standards, why

0:22:21.400 --> 0:22:24.919
<v Speaker 2>don't you lead a team for Operation Gunner Side? And

0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:27.520
<v Speaker 2>this is finally the operation that this whole episode is

0:22:28.000 --> 0:22:34.000
<v Speaker 2>based on. And it was a small tactical saboteur team

0:22:34.240 --> 0:22:37.520
<v Speaker 2>who went to the heavy water plant to destroy the

0:22:37.920 --> 0:22:41.280
<v Speaker 2>marks heavy water production capabilities.

0:22:41.880 --> 0:22:46.440
<v Speaker 3>I love this kind of thing. It's just the kind

0:22:46.480 --> 0:22:48.720
<v Speaker 3>of thing. And if you're thinking, man, why is it

0:22:48.720 --> 0:22:51.800
<v Speaker 3>there a movie about this? There was an older movie

0:22:51.800 --> 0:22:53.640
<v Speaker 3>with Kirk Douglas that I don't think, you know, set

0:22:53.640 --> 0:22:56.359
<v Speaker 3>the World on Fire. But I think this could go

0:22:56.480 --> 0:23:00.360
<v Speaker 3>for maybe a Guy Ritchie update totally. Yeah. I doubt

0:23:00.359 --> 0:23:01.720
<v Speaker 3>if he would do it after the other one, but

0:23:01.800 --> 0:23:03.040
<v Speaker 3>you know, I don't know.

0:23:03.119 --> 0:23:06.520
<v Speaker 2>I don't think he's opposed to making a sequel or reboot.

0:23:06.560 --> 0:23:10.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean, Snatch was basically Lockstock and Two Smoking Barrels

0:23:10.040 --> 0:23:10.800
<v Speaker 2>done over again.

0:23:11.680 --> 0:23:14.119
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, he made a lot of several of those Sherlock

0:23:14.119 --> 0:23:15.119
<v Speaker 3>Holmes movies, I think.

0:23:15.000 --> 0:23:20.080
<v Speaker 2>Right, No, Lockstock and two Smoking Barrels. No, Oh, I see,

0:23:20.280 --> 0:23:22.240
<v Speaker 2>you were just trying to take a little side step

0:23:22.240 --> 0:23:24.120
<v Speaker 2>in the logical direction, right.

0:23:24.240 --> 0:23:30.399
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that didn't fall first one back, Yep, there you go.

0:23:30.840 --> 0:23:33.920
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I think the first one was pretty good.

0:23:33.920 --> 0:23:35.800
<v Speaker 2>I don't know about the second one. Was that any good?

0:23:36.400 --> 0:23:38.200
<v Speaker 3>I didn't see any of them.

0:23:38.640 --> 0:23:41.360
<v Speaker 2>The first one was not bad if you don't let

0:23:41.400 --> 0:23:44.040
<v Speaker 2>yourself stop and think, like, who would have the audacity

0:23:44.400 --> 0:23:47.400
<v Speaker 2>to make sure Lock Holmes like a like a rough

0:23:47.440 --> 0:23:51.479
<v Speaker 2>and tumble action hero and just kind of give yourself

0:23:51.520 --> 0:23:52.680
<v Speaker 2>over to it. It's pretty good.

0:23:53.359 --> 0:23:56.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and what you know, I can also recommend for kids,

0:23:57.160 --> 0:24:00.760
<v Speaker 3>especially younger girls and Nola Holmes you no, Loa Holmes

0:24:00.760 --> 0:24:01.600
<v Speaker 3>movies are pretty good.

0:24:01.600 --> 0:24:02.320
<v Speaker 2>Both of them are good.

0:24:02.800 --> 0:24:03.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. I enjoyed those.

0:24:04.040 --> 0:24:07.080
<v Speaker 2>We have to do with Sherlock Holmes episode at least

0:24:07.440 --> 0:24:09.280
<v Speaker 2>we haven't done that, No, not as far.

0:24:09.200 --> 0:24:11.480
<v Speaker 3>As Yeah, we totally have to because I don't I

0:24:11.480 --> 0:24:13.399
<v Speaker 3>don't really know anything about much of that.

0:24:13.800 --> 0:24:16.600
<v Speaker 2>It's gonna be like our chess or our soccer episode,

0:24:16.600 --> 0:24:17.240
<v Speaker 2>though I have a.

0:24:17.200 --> 0:24:21.639
<v Speaker 3>Feeling other home homesy's that get upset.

0:24:21.800 --> 0:24:23.440
<v Speaker 2>It's a whole hornet's nests. We're gonna stick.

0:24:26.480 --> 0:24:29.480
<v Speaker 3>What are the what are the clown uh? What's the

0:24:29.480 --> 0:24:30.080
<v Speaker 3>clown band?

0:24:31.400 --> 0:24:33.280
<v Speaker 2>Uh? The insane clown posse?

0:24:33.440 --> 0:24:36.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? But what other people called the Juggalos Juggalos? Yeah.

0:24:37.080 --> 0:24:39.360
<v Speaker 2>The guy who does my hair is a former Juggalo.

0:24:40.160 --> 0:24:42.280
<v Speaker 3>Ye. I think those are two. Where do you like

0:24:42.359 --> 0:24:42.919
<v Speaker 3>to hear together?

0:24:43.200 --> 0:24:44.000
<v Speaker 2>Former Juggalo?

0:24:44.480 --> 0:24:47.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? Yeah, it's like former homesy Yeah, after they leave

0:24:47.800 --> 0:24:48.480
<v Speaker 3>that world behind.

0:24:48.840 --> 0:24:52.040
<v Speaker 2>You know, hey, I don't think the other part. Let

0:24:52.080 --> 0:24:53.240
<v Speaker 2>you leave that world behind?

0:24:53.920 --> 0:24:55.640
<v Speaker 3>Oh boy, it's threatening.

0:24:56.520 --> 0:24:57.880
<v Speaker 2>So where were we Chuck.

0:24:59.240 --> 0:25:02.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, we are at Operation Gunner side. This guy Runberg.

0:25:03.040 --> 0:25:07.040
<v Speaker 3>He didn't know even why that plant was a target.

0:25:07.440 --> 0:25:10.720
<v Speaker 3>They basically just said, here, old Chap, we want you

0:25:10.800 --> 0:25:13.560
<v Speaker 3>to go destroy some pipes at the plant, and the

0:25:13.560 --> 0:25:16.080
<v Speaker 3>people that tried before you all died and you might

0:25:16.119 --> 0:25:19.320
<v Speaker 3>as well pip. Yeah, that's basically it. That's all the

0:25:19.320 --> 0:25:21.480
<v Speaker 3>information he had. But he was a game. He was

0:25:21.480 --> 0:25:22.080
<v Speaker 3>that kind of guy.

0:25:22.440 --> 0:25:25.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I mean they accepted cyanide pills as part of

0:25:25.320 --> 0:25:28.479
<v Speaker 2>this operation, and yeah, they had no idea what they

0:25:28.480 --> 0:25:30.359
<v Speaker 2>were doing. They just knew they had to go blow

0:25:30.440 --> 0:25:33.240
<v Speaker 2>up some pipes and that was that. Likes how dedicated

0:25:33.280 --> 0:25:36.680
<v Speaker 2>these people were that they were willing to sacrifice their

0:25:36.720 --> 0:25:38.960
<v Speaker 2>life to try to blow up some pipes because the

0:25:39.000 --> 0:25:42.040
<v Speaker 2>Brits told them it was going to help cripple the

0:25:42.119 --> 0:25:45.760
<v Speaker 2>Nazi war effort. So I think there was five of

0:25:45.800 --> 0:25:48.879
<v Speaker 2>them that parachuted in just like the Operation Swallow people

0:25:48.920 --> 0:25:52.760
<v Speaker 2>had before, but they were miles miles away from the

0:25:52.840 --> 0:25:55.760
<v Speaker 2>landing site. They just maybe got blown off course or

0:25:55.800 --> 0:25:58.639
<v Speaker 2>something like that, and it took them five days of

0:25:58.720 --> 0:26:00.760
<v Speaker 2>trudging through the snow, though I think they might have

0:26:00.800 --> 0:26:05.800
<v Speaker 2>had skis to find the operations swallow people who'd been

0:26:05.840 --> 0:26:09.440
<v Speaker 2>sitting there eating reindeer the whole time. And even when

0:26:09.440 --> 0:26:12.080
<v Speaker 2>they found them in this trapper's cabin and hooked up

0:26:12.080 --> 0:26:14.480
<v Speaker 2>with them, and now there's nine people in this operation.

0:26:15.080 --> 0:26:18.560
<v Speaker 2>They were still forty miles away from the heavy water plant.

0:26:18.840 --> 0:26:23.080
<v Speaker 2>And again it's like snowy in February in Norway.

0:26:23.240 --> 0:26:27.480
<v Speaker 3>You can just imagine, yeah, yeah, there's a suspension bridge,

0:26:27.520 --> 0:26:29.959
<v Speaker 3>there's one way you get through, but of course they

0:26:29.960 --> 0:26:32.320
<v Speaker 3>had Nazi guards there, so that wasn't the best route.

0:26:33.160 --> 0:26:36.520
<v Speaker 3>The other options were like a literal minefield or I guess,

0:26:37.080 --> 0:26:40.840
<v Speaker 3>mine forest that they could have crossed through at great peril.

0:26:41.560 --> 0:26:43.439
<v Speaker 3>Or they could hike all the way down into the

0:26:43.440 --> 0:26:47.199
<v Speaker 3>gorge which had like a half frozen river running through it,

0:26:47.720 --> 0:26:50.040
<v Speaker 3>and then go to the plant that way and then

0:26:50.119 --> 0:26:53.080
<v Speaker 3>hike back up. And so they said they took a boat,

0:26:53.119 --> 0:26:56.840
<v Speaker 3>I guess, and they said minefield, no good, Nazis on

0:26:56.880 --> 0:26:59.399
<v Speaker 3>the bridge, no good. Let's just get on our skis

0:26:59.400 --> 0:27:03.800
<v Speaker 3>as we do and hike down that gorge. And that's

0:27:03.840 --> 0:27:05.959
<v Speaker 3>how they did it. We did need to mention one

0:27:06.040 --> 0:27:09.680
<v Speaker 3>little side thing that we've failed to mention is that

0:27:10.080 --> 0:27:13.800
<v Speaker 3>before this all happened, when Runberg was I guess, debriefed

0:27:13.840 --> 0:27:16.360
<v Speaker 3>and sort of getting his act together to go. He

0:27:16.440 --> 0:27:20.080
<v Speaker 3>went into a hardware store and apparently on a whim,

0:27:20.119 --> 0:27:24.880
<v Speaker 3>as the story goes, bought some heavy duty bolt cutters,

0:27:24.920 --> 0:27:28.600
<v Speaker 3>like metal bolt cutters, and to just park that right there,

0:27:28.640 --> 0:27:31.440
<v Speaker 3>because you know, if you introduce bolt cutters, I guess

0:27:31.440 --> 0:27:34.200
<v Speaker 3>in this case Act two, you know they're going to

0:27:34.240 --> 0:27:37.400
<v Speaker 3>cut something in Act three. Right, So he's got those

0:27:37.440 --> 0:27:40.520
<v Speaker 3>bolt cutters, and they decide to go down into the

0:27:40.560 --> 0:27:44.160
<v Speaker 3>gorge as their route to the hard water plant.

0:27:44.400 --> 0:27:46.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and again not just going down into a gorge,

0:27:47.000 --> 0:27:49.720
<v Speaker 2>crossing a half frozen river and climbing up a cliff

0:27:50.240 --> 0:27:52.080
<v Speaker 2>get to the top of the gorge on the other

0:27:52.160 --> 0:27:55.679
<v Speaker 2>side where the heavy water plant was. And apparently that

0:27:55.800 --> 0:27:58.560
<v Speaker 2>route was such an unlikely route that the Nazis didn't

0:27:58.560 --> 0:28:00.000
<v Speaker 2>even bother guarding the gorge.

0:28:00.520 --> 0:28:02.800
<v Speaker 3>No nobody would go down there exactly.

0:28:03.400 --> 0:28:07.960
<v Speaker 2>So February twenty seventh they made it for the forty

0:28:08.000 --> 0:28:10.720
<v Speaker 2>miles to their target. I think it was the night,

0:28:10.840 --> 0:28:15.200
<v Speaker 2>like right before midnight. This team of nine saboteurs from

0:28:15.280 --> 0:28:19.879
<v Speaker 2>Company Linya, the Norwegian Resistance are sitting there outside of

0:28:19.920 --> 0:28:23.720
<v Speaker 2>the the Mark power plant, figuring out exactly how they're

0:28:23.760 --> 0:28:26.000
<v Speaker 2>going to get in, and they decided that they would

0:28:26.000 --> 0:28:29.399
<v Speaker 2>split up. There were five of them and as they

0:28:29.440 --> 0:28:32.399
<v Speaker 2>were sitting outside, they were faced with their first obstacle,

0:28:32.680 --> 0:28:35.960
<v Speaker 2>which was a fence. And apparently the Brits had said,

0:28:36.200 --> 0:28:39.840
<v Speaker 2>there's a fence, so here's a handsaw. And the guy

0:28:39.880 --> 0:28:43.720
<v Speaker 2>who was in charge, who was it, Runberg? Yeah, yeah,

0:28:43.760 --> 0:28:48.160
<v Speaker 2>his second in command Canute hawk Lead. We're like running

0:28:48.200 --> 0:28:49.760
<v Speaker 2>through these Norwegian.

0:28:49.280 --> 0:28:51.000
<v Speaker 3>Names many that sounds pretty good to me.

0:28:51.360 --> 0:28:54.080
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so and I know it's Canute. I always thought

0:28:54.120 --> 0:28:56.600
<v Speaker 2>it was newt but it's Canute. As I watched this

0:28:56.720 --> 0:29:00.360
<v Speaker 2>cool little Nova special and he was interviewed and they

0:29:00.480 --> 0:29:04.440
<v Speaker 2>definitely said Canute. He said, Runberg, don't you have some

0:29:04.560 --> 0:29:05.320
<v Speaker 2>bolt cutters?

0:29:05.560 --> 0:29:05.880
<v Speaker 3>Right?

0:29:06.320 --> 0:29:08.680
<v Speaker 2>And Rumberg gave him the bull cutters and instead of

0:29:08.680 --> 0:29:12.520
<v Speaker 2>this loud, tedious, laborious hack saw that they would have

0:29:12.560 --> 0:29:15.400
<v Speaker 2>tried to use and probably gotten caught using, they just

0:29:15.440 --> 0:29:17.600
<v Speaker 2>snipped right through the fence in a few minutes thanks

0:29:17.640 --> 0:29:19.840
<v Speaker 2>to Rumberg's foresight back in Cambridge.

0:29:20.040 --> 0:29:23.480
<v Speaker 3>That's right, snip snip, so that pade off pretty quickly.

0:29:23.600 --> 0:29:27.440
<v Speaker 3>Much more that was still out too well. I think

0:29:27.480 --> 0:29:29.240
<v Speaker 3>I got the saying wrong if you introduce bulcutters in

0:29:29.240 --> 0:29:32.560
<v Speaker 3>neck two, they're gonna snip something in nect two. Yeah,

0:29:32.600 --> 0:29:36.240
<v Speaker 3>they're on the property now, five of the people, five

0:29:36.280 --> 0:29:39.160
<v Speaker 3>of the nine provide cover the other two. And they

0:29:39.200 --> 0:29:43.880
<v Speaker 3>had tommy guns, they had chloroform. They were set for

0:29:43.920 --> 0:29:47.320
<v Speaker 3>an attack if need be, and they were keeping a

0:29:47.360 --> 0:29:49.600
<v Speaker 3>watch on like the barracks because there weren't like, you know,

0:29:49.800 --> 0:29:53.000
<v Speaker 3>hundreds of German soldiers. I get the idea if they

0:29:53.000 --> 0:29:56.000
<v Speaker 3>were going in with the initial twenty nine that it

0:29:56.160 --> 0:29:58.200
<v Speaker 3>was probably a couple of dozen maybe. I mean, that's

0:29:58.200 --> 0:29:58.800
<v Speaker 3>just a guess.

0:29:59.080 --> 0:30:01.040
<v Speaker 2>I don't even know if was that many. I mean,

0:30:01.360 --> 0:30:03.880
<v Speaker 2>as important as this heavy water plant was, so the

0:30:03.920 --> 0:30:07.600
<v Speaker 2>atomic program in Germany, Yeah, it was so remote that

0:30:07.640 --> 0:30:09.400
<v Speaker 2>they were just like, you know, I think it's going

0:30:09.480 --> 0:30:12.360
<v Speaker 2>to take a few people. We got mines, there's a gorge,

0:30:12.360 --> 0:30:13.960
<v Speaker 2>we got people on the bridge. It's fine.

0:30:14.200 --> 0:30:16.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, exactly. So they were keeping a watch on

0:30:16.560 --> 0:30:19.200
<v Speaker 3>the barracks, they were keeping a watch on that bridge

0:30:19.960 --> 0:30:23.360
<v Speaker 3>for the guardsmen there, and just sort of waiting around

0:30:23.360 --> 0:30:25.880
<v Speaker 3>for any you know, activity, so they could get those

0:30:25.880 --> 0:30:28.800
<v Speaker 3>tommy guns out or maybe silently chloroform and Nazi, which

0:30:28.840 --> 0:30:31.200
<v Speaker 3>was a dream a Norwegian saboteur.

0:30:31.400 --> 0:30:32.400
<v Speaker 2>You know, they want to do that.

0:30:32.560 --> 0:30:36.400
<v Speaker 3>So yeah, so the other four guys split into two pairs.

0:30:36.800 --> 0:30:39.240
<v Speaker 3>They each had and I get the idea, they split

0:30:39.320 --> 0:30:42.360
<v Speaker 3>up in case and they each had enough to like

0:30:42.440 --> 0:30:45.000
<v Speaker 3>blow it up in case, like two of them got

0:30:45.040 --> 0:30:48.160
<v Speaker 3>caught or killed, the other two could still complete the job. Right.

0:30:49.240 --> 0:30:52.520
<v Speaker 3>They got in through a second gate, and they had

0:30:52.680 --> 0:30:55.640
<v Speaker 3>arranged with one of the co workers there to I guess,

0:30:55.720 --> 0:30:57.760
<v Speaker 3>you know, one of the inside moles, to leave a

0:30:57.800 --> 0:31:01.560
<v Speaker 3>cellar door open. But unfortunate only that person called in

0:31:01.640 --> 0:31:04.760
<v Speaker 3>sick that day, and I guess didn't seem to think like, hey,

0:31:04.800 --> 0:31:07.800
<v Speaker 3>I had this important other task right to do. And

0:31:07.920 --> 0:31:10.480
<v Speaker 3>Tron's dad had previously told him though, like if you

0:31:10.560 --> 0:31:12.840
<v Speaker 3>can't get in that way, there's a cable shaft you

0:31:12.880 --> 0:31:15.760
<v Speaker 3>can probably slip through. And that's what they ended up using.

0:31:16.360 --> 0:31:19.080
<v Speaker 2>I's want to circle back and emphasize the fact that

0:31:19.160 --> 0:31:24.080
<v Speaker 2>this man was a lynch pin to a sabotage plan.

0:31:24.800 --> 0:31:26.240
<v Speaker 2>All he had to do was show up to work

0:31:26.240 --> 0:31:27.160
<v Speaker 2>and leave a door open.

0:31:27.440 --> 0:31:29.320
<v Speaker 3>He could have gone home right after that, yeah, and

0:31:29.400 --> 0:31:31.120
<v Speaker 3>been like I just threw up at the get out of.

0:31:31.080 --> 0:31:34.320
<v Speaker 2>Here, right, And my guess this is nineteen forty three.

0:31:34.680 --> 0:31:37.280
<v Speaker 2>There's an eighty five percent chance that his illness was

0:31:37.320 --> 0:31:41.680
<v Speaker 2>a severe hangover, which makes it even worse. Yeah, probably

0:31:41.680 --> 0:31:44.640
<v Speaker 2>so so yeah, luckily, yes, they found that that hatch

0:31:44.760 --> 0:31:47.400
<v Speaker 2>was opened in the cable shaft and they basically slid through.

0:31:48.600 --> 0:31:51.200
<v Speaker 2>The two who made it through the cable cheft was Runberg,

0:31:51.400 --> 0:31:55.720
<v Speaker 2>the leader, Yeah, and a guy named Frederick Frederick Yeah.

0:31:55.520 --> 0:31:59.080
<v Speaker 3>Kaiser, Yeah, Frederick Frederick Frederick.

0:31:59.560 --> 0:32:04.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, eat your heart out. Frederick's it's probably Frederk. Yeah,

0:32:04.800 --> 0:32:07.760
<v Speaker 2>would be my guest. I like Frederk. That's how we

0:32:07.840 --> 0:32:11.479
<v Speaker 2>say it in America. Anyway, Kaiser and Rumberg they were

0:32:11.480 --> 0:32:13.320
<v Speaker 2>the ones who went down this cable shaft and they

0:32:13.360 --> 0:32:16.080
<v Speaker 2>start getting busy. I think Kaiser was holding it. Go

0:32:18.480 --> 0:32:23.640
<v Speaker 2>They're like, we have some extra time, it's right, go ahead.

0:32:24.080 --> 0:32:26.600
<v Speaker 2>So they yes, and they went down a shaft even

0:32:26.680 --> 0:32:31.680
<v Speaker 2>as well, and so almost immediately they found a watchman

0:32:31.800 --> 0:32:35.320
<v Speaker 2>I take him to be a Norwegian watchman maybe, and

0:32:35.560 --> 0:32:38.760
<v Speaker 2>they were like, you know, you're now our hostage. Sit

0:32:38.800 --> 0:32:41.560
<v Speaker 2>there and be quiet, and he's like, no problem, you

0:32:41.600 --> 0:32:45.320
<v Speaker 2>guys do whatever you want. And despite his complicity, Kaiser

0:32:45.360 --> 0:32:46.840
<v Speaker 2>was like, this is my one chance, and so he

0:32:46.920 --> 0:32:52.240
<v Speaker 2>chloroformed the watchman anyway, And so as he's doing this,

0:32:52.360 --> 0:32:55.120
<v Speaker 2>Rumberg went and planted the explosives on the pipes, just

0:32:55.160 --> 0:32:57.520
<v Speaker 2>as he was told to do. And right about then,

0:32:57.960 --> 0:33:01.880
<v Speaker 2>all of a sudden, out of nowhere, there's a explosion

0:33:01.920 --> 0:33:05.920
<v Speaker 2>of glass as a window shatters, and Rumberg and Kaiser

0:33:05.960 --> 0:33:08.840
<v Speaker 2>and the chloroform guard I'll turn and look, and the

0:33:08.880 --> 0:33:12.680
<v Speaker 2>other two men from the other explosives team come in

0:33:12.720 --> 0:33:13.400
<v Speaker 2>through the window.

0:33:13.680 --> 0:33:16.280
<v Speaker 3>That's right. They're like, it's just us, guys, We're all

0:33:16.280 --> 0:33:18.560
<v Speaker 3>here together, so we can get this thing bombed up quicker.

0:33:19.320 --> 0:33:21.680
<v Speaker 3>They set up those explosives, the four of them, I guess,

0:33:21.720 --> 0:33:25.560
<v Speaker 3>at this point, and the fuses at the time were

0:33:25.800 --> 0:33:28.760
<v Speaker 3>two minute fuses that would have given enough time to

0:33:28.760 --> 0:33:32.200
<v Speaker 3>get the heck out of there. Runberg said, no, I

0:33:32.280 --> 0:33:34.240
<v Speaker 3>really want to make sure we hear this thing go off.

0:33:34.760 --> 0:33:36.960
<v Speaker 3>So we're going to go down to thirty seconds. I

0:33:36.960 --> 0:33:40.800
<v Speaker 3>imagine everyone said, oh, how about a minute? He said, no,

0:33:40.880 --> 0:33:43.840
<v Speaker 3>thirty seconds is plenty. So they're getting ready to light

0:33:43.880 --> 0:33:47.280
<v Speaker 3>the fuses. The guard that they had at gunpoint said,

0:33:47.320 --> 0:33:50.800
<v Speaker 3>can I get those glasses? Yeah? You know, if they

0:33:50.840 --> 0:33:54.840
<v Speaker 3>blow up, my optometrists has quit and retired. I'm not

0:33:54.880 --> 0:33:56.760
<v Speaker 3>going to be able to replace those things very easily,

0:33:57.160 --> 0:34:00.360
<v Speaker 3>so they said, sure, get your glasses, and at that

0:34:00.440 --> 0:34:06.040
<v Speaker 3>point another civilian employee Norwegian obviously comes into the room

0:34:06.720 --> 0:34:11.879
<v Speaker 3>and is now another temporary prisoner. Runeberg lights those uses

0:34:12.320 --> 0:34:15.120
<v Speaker 3>counts to ten, which means they only have twenty seconds,

0:34:15.640 --> 0:34:19.319
<v Speaker 3>and then says run to the two civilians. They get

0:34:19.320 --> 0:34:22.319
<v Speaker 3>the heck out of there as well. I reckon in

0:34:22.360 --> 0:34:24.920
<v Speaker 3>the movie, guy Ritchie would really have to sort of

0:34:24.960 --> 0:34:28.240
<v Speaker 3>fudge things, because what is not exciting in a movie

0:34:28.280 --> 0:34:32.680
<v Speaker 3>like this is when is all you hear? And that's

0:34:32.800 --> 0:34:34.880
<v Speaker 3>kind of all they heard. It wasn't a huge explosion.

0:34:35.320 --> 0:34:37.400
<v Speaker 3>It's not like they were blowing up this entire plant

0:34:37.400 --> 0:34:39.319
<v Speaker 3>like he would probably do in a movie. They were

0:34:39.320 --> 0:34:42.319
<v Speaker 3>just trying to damage these pipes, and he said that

0:34:42.760 --> 0:34:45.600
<v Speaker 3>later on, he said they heard a tiny, insignificant pop.

0:34:46.560 --> 0:34:49.480
<v Speaker 3>Also because it was underground under that concrete and stuff.

0:34:49.960 --> 0:34:52.640
<v Speaker 3>Windows did break though, enough at least to rouse some

0:34:52.800 --> 0:34:56.840
<v Speaker 3>sleeping Nazis. This part is very movie like because the

0:34:56.880 --> 0:35:00.799
<v Speaker 3>four that were guarding kind of watched as half dressed

0:35:00.880 --> 0:35:03.680
<v Speaker 3>Nazi gets out and was like, oh, do I hear anything?

0:35:03.760 --> 0:35:06.440
<v Speaker 3>Do I hear anything? But apparently that was a pretty

0:35:06.480 --> 0:35:08.439
<v Speaker 3>noisy plant. So he just goes back to bed.

0:35:08.719 --> 0:35:12.319
<v Speaker 2>I can't help but imagining like a Sergeant Schultz type, yeah,

0:35:12.480 --> 0:35:16.200
<v Speaker 2>stumbling out totally. So, yeah, it wasn't a big deal.

0:35:16.239 --> 0:35:18.520
<v Speaker 2>And as a matter of fact, I mean it turned

0:35:18.520 --> 0:35:20.840
<v Speaker 2>out to be a big deal, but like, yeah, it

0:35:20.880 --> 0:35:23.680
<v Speaker 2>didn't cause like that huge explosion where guards start coming

0:35:23.719 --> 0:35:26.600
<v Speaker 2>out of nowhere and you know, there's alarms going off

0:35:26.640 --> 0:35:29.719
<v Speaker 2>and searchlights coming on. It wasn't anything like that. And

0:35:29.760 --> 0:35:32.960
<v Speaker 2>in fact, all nine people who were the saboteurs in

0:35:33.000 --> 0:35:37.879
<v Speaker 2>this operation got away. They escaped scott free, and in retrospect,

0:35:37.920 --> 0:35:40.200
<v Speaker 2>not a single bullet was fired and not a single

0:35:40.239 --> 0:35:45.760
<v Speaker 2>person died in this highly successful, amazingly daring sabotage operation.

0:35:46.520 --> 0:35:48.800
<v Speaker 3>That's right, but that is not the end of the story.

0:35:49.000 --> 0:35:51.759
<v Speaker 3>So maybe we should take our second break, yes, and

0:35:52.080 --> 0:35:53.560
<v Speaker 3>we'll come back and finish up right after this.

0:35:53.960 --> 0:35:55.640
<v Speaker 1>I want to learn about a terror sort and college

0:35:55.640 --> 0:35:58.880
<v Speaker 1>fred actl how to take a berg fractal gink is gone.

0:35:58.880 --> 0:35:59.680
<v Speaker 1>That's a little hunt.

0:36:00.000 --> 0:36:01.719
<v Speaker 3>The boarder murders and they kind of all rung on

0:36:01.719 --> 0:36:02.120
<v Speaker 3>the slane.

0:36:02.120 --> 0:36:10.920
<v Speaker 1>Everything sport up. Jerry.

0:36:19.680 --> 0:36:23.640
<v Speaker 3>All right, So, as you said, the saboteurs got away.

0:36:24.320 --> 0:36:26.840
<v Speaker 3>I think one of them, Poulsen, took off to Scotland

0:36:26.880 --> 0:36:31.200
<v Speaker 3>by sea. Runenberg and the and the rest of the

0:36:31.480 --> 0:36:34.920
<v Speaker 3>gang stayed on their skis as the Norwegians do. They

0:36:34.920 --> 0:36:38.360
<v Speaker 3>skid about two hundred miles, which is like nothing for them.

0:36:38.600 --> 0:36:42.200
<v Speaker 3>They skid to Sweden. In fact, with Nazis chasing them,

0:36:42.239 --> 0:36:44.759
<v Speaker 3>they had planes above trying to locate them. Like that

0:36:44.800 --> 0:36:46.640
<v Speaker 3>part would be a pretty good part of the movie,

0:36:46.640 --> 0:36:50.520
<v Speaker 3>I guess. But they got away, and there was a

0:36:50.600 --> 0:36:53.480
<v Speaker 3>German head of the German special forces in Norway who

0:36:53.560 --> 0:36:59.279
<v Speaker 3>called it the most splendid coup. However, it only took

0:36:59.280 --> 0:37:02.359
<v Speaker 3>a few months before where the Nazis were able to

0:37:02.400 --> 0:37:05.480
<v Speaker 3>restart production at the plant. I think this happened in February,

0:37:05.520 --> 0:37:08.040
<v Speaker 3>so in May of that same year they had ramped

0:37:08.080 --> 0:37:12.000
<v Speaker 3>back up to full capacity, which seems like a big disappointment.

0:37:13.080 --> 0:37:16.400
<v Speaker 3>But no, because here come the Americans with their initial

0:37:16.440 --> 0:37:19.680
<v Speaker 3>plan to just bomb the plant, and just like they

0:37:19.680 --> 0:37:22.280
<v Speaker 3>were warned, it did not do a ton of damage

0:37:22.320 --> 0:37:25.800
<v Speaker 3>to anyone but the twenty two Norwegian civilians who were killed.

0:37:26.120 --> 0:37:30.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Like this heavy water plant was in this basement

0:37:30.360 --> 0:37:33.360
<v Speaker 2>of a power plant, so it was not easy to

0:37:33.400 --> 0:37:35.800
<v Speaker 2>get to as far as like aerial bombs are.

0:37:35.719 --> 0:37:40.759
<v Speaker 3>Concerned, especially the bombs back then, you know, yeah for real.

0:37:41.040 --> 0:37:43.839
<v Speaker 2>But the thing is it did show the Nazis that like, hey,

0:37:43.960 --> 0:37:51.480
<v Speaker 2>this remote, isolated, actually surprisingly vulnerable plant. Yeah, that's like

0:37:51.640 --> 0:37:54.600
<v Speaker 2>the one source of our heavy water. We should probably

0:37:54.800 --> 0:37:58.839
<v Speaker 2>stop creating heavy water there and move the operations to Germany. Yeah,

0:37:59.120 --> 0:38:03.360
<v Speaker 2>so they did. Remember the Nazi heavy water program is

0:38:03.400 --> 0:38:05.960
<v Speaker 2>set back a few months, and this is at a

0:38:06.000 --> 0:38:09.040
<v Speaker 2>time where the Allies are racing in the Manhattan Project

0:38:09.160 --> 0:38:12.400
<v Speaker 2>to create the atomic bomb. Assuming the Nazis are in

0:38:12.480 --> 0:38:16.759
<v Speaker 2>the same race as them. The Allies understand that we

0:38:16.800 --> 0:38:19.799
<v Speaker 2>can do this in like two three years. So to

0:38:19.880 --> 0:38:23.560
<v Speaker 2>set back a Nazi atomic program three months is an

0:38:23.840 --> 0:38:26.640
<v Speaker 2>enormous setback in a two or three year race to

0:38:26.719 --> 0:38:29.360
<v Speaker 2>become the first to come up with an atomic bomb.

0:38:29.600 --> 0:38:32.480
<v Speaker 2>So from that standpoint, even at the time, they were like,

0:38:32.520 --> 0:38:35.520
<v Speaker 2>that was a very successful operation, even though, like you said,

0:38:35.520 --> 0:38:39.160
<v Speaker 2>the Nazis got back up to full full capacity in

0:38:39.280 --> 0:38:42.000
<v Speaker 2>just a couple of months. But as we said, they

0:38:42.000 --> 0:38:44.880
<v Speaker 2>were moving everything to Germany, and I guess the company

0:38:44.960 --> 0:38:50.759
<v Speaker 2>linga crew, the Norwegian freedom fighters, they were keeping an

0:38:50.800 --> 0:38:53.160
<v Speaker 2>eye on all the movements of the heavy water from

0:38:53.239 --> 0:38:56.239
<v Speaker 2>I guess they're moles inside the heavy water plant, and

0:38:56.440 --> 0:38:58.920
<v Speaker 2>they knew that the Nazis were going to move the

0:38:58.960 --> 0:39:01.239
<v Speaker 2>heavy water, when they were going to do it, and

0:39:01.280 --> 0:39:02.479
<v Speaker 2>how they were going to do it.

0:39:02.760 --> 0:39:05.440
<v Speaker 3>That's right. So they come up with another plan to

0:39:05.560 --> 0:39:08.520
<v Speaker 3>further thwart their efforts, and they determined the best way

0:39:08.560 --> 0:39:11.040
<v Speaker 3>to do this was to sabotage the ferry that's going

0:39:11.080 --> 0:39:15.319
<v Speaker 3>to be ferrying everything over to Germany. So they knew

0:39:15.320 --> 0:39:17.440
<v Speaker 3>it would cost some civilian lives, but they figured that

0:39:17.480 --> 0:39:19.200
<v Speaker 3>was their best chance to get it before it even

0:39:19.239 --> 0:39:22.240
<v Speaker 3>had a chance to get set up again. An old

0:39:22.360 --> 0:39:26.080
<v Speaker 3>Canute is back on the scene. He was the second

0:39:26.080 --> 0:39:29.080
<v Speaker 3>in command there at Gunnerside, if you remember, and he

0:39:29.320 --> 0:39:31.640
<v Speaker 3>was leading the team this time. He had been promoted,

0:39:31.680 --> 0:39:35.200
<v Speaker 3>I guess. And in February nineteen forty four, they set

0:39:35.239 --> 0:39:37.960
<v Speaker 3>off explosions on the bow of that ship. It was

0:39:38.000 --> 0:39:42.680
<v Speaker 3>a ferry called the Hydro, and fourteen Norwegian sadly were killed,

0:39:42.960 --> 0:39:47.440
<v Speaker 3>along with four Germans, and this again was a big success.

0:39:49.040 --> 0:39:51.279
<v Speaker 3>For a long time, they weren't even positive that there

0:39:51.320 --> 0:39:53.120
<v Speaker 3>was heavy or they couldn't prove at least that there

0:39:53.120 --> 0:39:55.920
<v Speaker 3>was heavy water on board and there was a German

0:39:56.000 --> 0:39:58.480
<v Speaker 3>heavy water expert after the war that said, no, those

0:39:58.480 --> 0:40:02.600
<v Speaker 3>were just those dummies. Dummy and I guess to try

0:40:02.600 --> 0:40:05.759
<v Speaker 3>and undermine the idea that it was a success. But

0:40:05.960 --> 0:40:09.800
<v Speaker 3>PBS Nova to the rescue. In two thousand and three,

0:40:09.840 --> 0:40:12.879
<v Speaker 3>they organized a salvage of one of those barrels from

0:40:12.920 --> 0:40:17.080
<v Speaker 3>that sunken ferry and they proved that it contained heavy water.

0:40:17.160 --> 0:40:18.799
<v Speaker 3>So it was a great success after all.

0:40:18.960 --> 0:40:21.440
<v Speaker 2>That was the Nova mini documentary. I watched. It was

0:40:21.480 --> 0:40:23.719
<v Speaker 2>really good. Yeah, but one of the things that they

0:40:23.800 --> 0:40:27.680
<v Speaker 2>covered that the reason why the Allies were like, maybe

0:40:27.719 --> 0:40:30.440
<v Speaker 2>those were dummies, is that there were reports of survivors

0:40:30.440 --> 0:40:33.520
<v Speaker 2>of that fairy sinking, that barrels have been floating, like

0:40:33.560 --> 0:40:36.280
<v Speaker 2>some people were trying to like climb onto the barrels

0:40:36.320 --> 0:40:39.640
<v Speaker 2>to survive. They're like, heavy water's not supposed to float

0:40:39.640 --> 0:40:43.120
<v Speaker 2>in regular water, and so they were like, it's possible

0:40:43.160 --> 0:40:46.880
<v Speaker 2>that this was a decoy because also intelligence showed that

0:40:46.920 --> 0:40:50.480
<v Speaker 2>some heavy water did arrive in Germany. Well, it turns out,

0:40:50.480 --> 0:40:52.680
<v Speaker 2>thanks to this Nova special I'm about to spoil it,

0:40:54.280 --> 0:40:58.200
<v Speaker 2>that those barrels that floated were the most pure form

0:40:58.280 --> 0:41:02.280
<v Speaker 2>of heavy water that they had mark the barrels weren't full,

0:41:02.360 --> 0:41:04.680
<v Speaker 2>and so the air inside the barrels was making them float.

0:41:04.920 --> 0:41:05.360
<v Speaker 3>Wow.

0:41:05.600 --> 0:41:08.600
<v Speaker 2>Yes, so it was heavy water that they sabotage. They

0:41:08.600 --> 0:41:10.959
<v Speaker 2>did put a dent in the amount of heavy water.

0:41:10.960 --> 0:41:14.400
<v Speaker 2>I think there was a fifteen ton shipment and the

0:41:14.440 --> 0:41:17.399
<v Speaker 2>Germans were only able to collect I think the four

0:41:17.440 --> 0:41:19.799
<v Speaker 2>that were floating. So it was a big deal too.

0:41:19.800 --> 0:41:24.120
<v Speaker 2>But again, eighteen people lost their lives, for fourteen of

0:41:24.160 --> 0:41:25.680
<v Speaker 2>them innocent Norwegians.

0:41:26.000 --> 0:41:26.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:41:27.719 --> 0:41:30.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I think that's that's actually something they wrestle

0:41:30.320 --> 0:41:32.600
<v Speaker 2>with in the Nova documentary because they interview some of

0:41:32.600 --> 0:41:35.919
<v Speaker 2>these people we've talked about, and they know they're trying

0:41:35.960 --> 0:41:40.840
<v Speaker 2>to reconcile their guilt with the how impactful the mission was,

0:41:41.120 --> 0:41:44.480
<v Speaker 2>especially living for decades with that gnawing rumor in the

0:41:44.480 --> 0:41:46.600
<v Speaker 2>back of their head that those had been dummy barrels.

0:41:46.880 --> 0:41:48.919
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and it resulted in the loss of so many,

0:41:49.120 --> 0:41:50.160
<v Speaker 3>you know, civilian lives.

0:41:50.239 --> 0:41:52.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So I think they were quite relieved to find

0:41:52.000 --> 0:41:55.520
<v Speaker 2>that it really was heavy water. And still there's debate

0:41:55.680 --> 0:42:00.360
<v Speaker 2>today over even with the success of Gunner Side, was

0:42:00.520 --> 0:42:04.720
<v Speaker 2>the success of that Swallow group thinking of the hydro ferry,

0:42:05.560 --> 0:42:08.920
<v Speaker 2>how much of an impact it really had on Germany's

0:42:08.960 --> 0:42:12.640
<v Speaker 2>atomic program, and in fact, how much of a program

0:42:12.800 --> 0:42:16.320
<v Speaker 2>Germany had during World War two to build an atomic bomb.

0:42:16.880 --> 0:42:20.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, for sure. The official historian of the s oe

0:42:21.719 --> 0:42:25.759
<v Speaker 3>H M. R. D. Foot Great Name said that it

0:42:25.840 --> 0:42:28.520
<v Speaker 3>changed the course of the war. The fact that they

0:42:28.800 --> 0:42:32.120
<v Speaker 3>were denied that that regular, steady supply of heavy water

0:42:32.200 --> 0:42:36.440
<v Speaker 3>really put a dent in their operation. Olivia Various Stutey

0:42:36.440 --> 0:42:41.719
<v Speaker 3>points out another factor was that key scientists were a

0:42:41.719 --> 0:42:44.399
<v Speaker 3>lot of them were Jewish scientists that the Nazis were using,

0:42:44.440 --> 0:42:47.840
<v Speaker 3>and they either escaped or were murdered, which also slowed

0:42:47.840 --> 0:42:50.160
<v Speaker 3>down the You know, the Germans pursued of the bomb,

0:42:51.000 --> 0:42:55.759
<v Speaker 3>but also I think you found out too that was it.

0:42:55.760 --> 0:42:59.200
<v Speaker 3>The Germans U regretted pursuing heavy water.

0:42:59.400 --> 0:43:02.080
<v Speaker 2>Was that what it was instead of so they were

0:43:02.120 --> 0:43:04.920
<v Speaker 2>basically they took a wrong turn right out of the

0:43:04.960 --> 0:43:07.920
<v Speaker 2>gate with what they chose as a moderator. I think, like,

0:43:08.080 --> 0:43:11.000
<v Speaker 2>did you say earlier that the United States chose graphite.

0:43:10.640 --> 0:43:13.359
<v Speaker 3>Right, Yeah, we used graphight. They went with heavy water,

0:43:13.680 --> 0:43:14.680
<v Speaker 3>which was a mistake.

0:43:14.840 --> 0:43:18.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well they're both really great moderators. But graphite is

0:43:18.400 --> 0:43:22.520
<v Speaker 2>available in abundance. You can find it anywhere, right, sure,

0:43:23.200 --> 0:43:26.680
<v Speaker 2>heavy water is really hard to come by, so right

0:43:26.719 --> 0:43:29.640
<v Speaker 2>out of the gate, the Germans chose a moderator that

0:43:29.760 --> 0:43:32.080
<v Speaker 2>was really difficult to get and that there was only

0:43:32.120 --> 0:43:34.520
<v Speaker 2>one place basically in the world that was producing it,

0:43:34.760 --> 0:43:37.279
<v Speaker 2>whereas the Americans just went out and bought a bunch

0:43:37.280 --> 0:43:41.120
<v Speaker 2>of graphite at the grocery store basically to use their moderator.

0:43:41.239 --> 0:43:45.239
<v Speaker 2>So right away that first hurdle the Americans overcame the

0:43:45.320 --> 0:43:48.440
<v Speaker 2>Germans ran into. And the most interesting thing is it

0:43:48.520 --> 0:43:50.040
<v Speaker 2>was based on a miscalculation.

0:43:51.280 --> 0:43:54.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's right. If they had have calculated correctly, then

0:43:54.680 --> 0:43:56.480
<v Speaker 3>they would have known from the beginning, right.

0:43:56.680 --> 0:43:59.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So I think whoever conducted I can't remember their

0:44:00.640 --> 0:44:04.239
<v Speaker 2>but they conducted experiments on the viability of graphite as

0:44:04.280 --> 0:44:07.720
<v Speaker 2>a moderator, and they basically forgot to carry a one

0:44:08.040 --> 0:44:10.040
<v Speaker 2>or something. I think what it really was is they

0:44:10.080 --> 0:44:14.280
<v Speaker 2>didn't factor in the influence of impurities in their graphite sample,

0:44:14.719 --> 0:44:17.600
<v Speaker 2>and they concluded that graphite wasn't a very good moderator,

0:44:17.760 --> 0:44:21.800
<v Speaker 2>so let's use heavy water instead. So essentially, even before

0:44:21.920 --> 0:44:28.200
<v Speaker 2>the program started, the Nazi atomic program was just dead,

0:44:28.400 --> 0:44:31.400
<v Speaker 2>like dead in the water. Basically, yeah, got to carry

0:44:31.400 --> 0:44:34.080
<v Speaker 2>that ice, yes, but the Allies didn't know this, And

0:44:34.120 --> 0:44:37.160
<v Speaker 2>it turns out that just the idea that the Nazis

0:44:37.160 --> 0:44:40.759
<v Speaker 2>were involved in heavy water production suggested that they were

0:44:40.840 --> 0:44:43.520
<v Speaker 2>after an atomic bomb and that the Allies then were

0:44:43.560 --> 0:44:46.920
<v Speaker 2>in a foot race against them, and that led to

0:44:47.440 --> 0:44:50.720
<v Speaker 2>the creation of an actual atomic bomb. So the Nazis

0:44:50.760 --> 0:44:54.600
<v Speaker 2>directly influenced the production of an atomic bomb, even though

0:44:54.640 --> 0:44:55.400
<v Speaker 2>it wasn't theirs.

0:44:56.239 --> 0:44:58.960
<v Speaker 3>The Nazis being involved in heavy water production sounds like

0:44:59.120 --> 0:45:01.400
<v Speaker 3>some sort of weird October fet slogan.

0:45:02.760 --> 0:45:05.239
<v Speaker 2>It'd be like, what does this mean. They'd be like,

0:45:05.320 --> 0:45:07.719
<v Speaker 2>just drink this huge gallony here show.

0:45:08.280 --> 0:45:11.200
<v Speaker 3>I mentioned that film nineteen sixty five's The Heroes of

0:45:11.239 --> 0:45:17.319
<v Speaker 3>Telemark with Kirk Douglas as sort of a mashed up

0:45:17.440 --> 0:45:22.440
<v Speaker 3>fictional character based on both Ronenberg and tron Stadt, that,

0:45:22.880 --> 0:45:25.400
<v Speaker 3>like I said, wasn't like the biggest film ever, but

0:45:25.520 --> 0:45:28.200
<v Speaker 3>it wasn't an American film. So we did know about this

0:45:28.280 --> 0:45:32.520
<v Speaker 3>operation more than they did in Norway until like twenty fifteen.

0:45:33.480 --> 0:45:37.520
<v Speaker 3>State broadcaster NRK ran a mini series called The Heavy

0:45:37.600 --> 0:45:40.360
<v Speaker 3>Water War in twenty fifteen, and that's when a lot

0:45:40.440 --> 0:45:43.880
<v Speaker 3>of Norwegian's kind of first learned of this operation. And

0:45:43.920 --> 0:45:46.759
<v Speaker 3>if we're talking tron Statt, we want to button up

0:45:46.800 --> 0:45:49.080
<v Speaker 3>his story. You feel bad for this guy because he

0:45:49.080 --> 0:45:51.080
<v Speaker 3>didn't get to parachute in and actually have feet on

0:45:51.120 --> 0:45:53.799
<v Speaker 3>the ground for this kind of thing. He finally got

0:45:53.800 --> 0:45:55.960
<v Speaker 3>to do that kind of thing in October of nineteen

0:45:56.000 --> 0:46:02.359
<v Speaker 3>forty four. He got under that parachute for Operation Sunshine,

0:46:03.200 --> 0:46:06.440
<v Speaker 3>which was, you know, protecting Norway's some of their industrial

0:46:06.440 --> 0:46:11.120
<v Speaker 3>assets and infrastructure from German saboteurs as the Nazis were

0:46:11.120 --> 0:46:14.160
<v Speaker 3>on their way out. So he got his hands dirty,

0:46:14.200 --> 0:46:17.600
<v Speaker 3>which he'd always wanted to do. But very sadly the

0:46:17.640 --> 0:46:21.360
<v Speaker 3>following May I believe in nineteen forty five, he was

0:46:21.400 --> 0:46:25.000
<v Speaker 3>shot dead by the brother of a Norwegian collaborator who

0:46:25.040 --> 0:46:28.439
<v Speaker 3>he was questioning, so he tragically died as well.

0:46:28.640 --> 0:46:31.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, which is sad. At least he didn't get to

0:46:31.719 --> 0:46:34.640
<v Speaker 2>get to oversee and fly in on Operation Sunshine.

0:46:35.120 --> 0:46:38.200
<v Speaker 3>I wonder if he got to use any chloroform.

0:46:37.920 --> 0:46:41.440
<v Speaker 2>Maybe so, Chuck, I think that's it for the Norwegian

0:46:41.640 --> 0:46:45.040
<v Speaker 2>sabotage Operation Gunner Side. We haven't figured out what we're

0:46:45.040 --> 0:46:46.319
<v Speaker 2>going to name this episode.

0:46:46.680 --> 0:46:48.040
<v Speaker 3>I like Olivia's title.

0:46:48.560 --> 0:46:50.360
<v Speaker 2>Oh man, it's one of the better ones.

0:46:51.000 --> 0:46:54.080
<v Speaker 3>You want to go ahead and tell everyone. Yes, she

0:46:54.280 --> 0:46:59.359
<v Speaker 3>titled this article like water for nazis pretty great sense

0:46:59.360 --> 0:47:00.600
<v Speaker 3>of humor. Yeah, really good.

0:47:01.160 --> 0:47:03.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, thanks Olivia for that, and thanks to you for listening.

0:47:03.920 --> 0:47:06.360
<v Speaker 2>And how about we set up a listener mail so

0:47:06.400 --> 0:47:07.600
<v Speaker 2>I can thank that person too.

0:47:09.840 --> 0:47:12.600
<v Speaker 3>That's right. This is from Justin Meeks about Tavern on

0:47:12.600 --> 0:47:16.160
<v Speaker 3>the Green. Hey, guys, and this shows you how long

0:47:16.160 --> 0:47:18.040
<v Speaker 3>we've been off, because I've been hold on to this one.

0:47:18.719 --> 0:47:21.000
<v Speaker 3>My grandma had a wonderful related story to Tavern on

0:47:21.040 --> 0:47:23.880
<v Speaker 3>the Green. She was from rural Montana and travels to

0:47:23.920 --> 0:47:25.440
<v Speaker 3>New York in the late nineties with a group of

0:47:25.480 --> 0:47:29.840
<v Speaker 3>old ladies over Thanksgiving. One of her traveling group actually

0:47:31.080 --> 0:47:34.319
<v Speaker 3>had sold David Letterman his Montana ranch, so they went

0:47:34.360 --> 0:47:36.960
<v Speaker 3>to a taping of a show and he invited them backstage.

0:47:37.280 --> 0:47:38.879
<v Speaker 3>He found out they were going to be in town

0:47:38.960 --> 0:47:41.759
<v Speaker 3>for Thanksgiving and invited them to have Thanksgiving dinner with

0:47:41.840 --> 0:47:45.760
<v Speaker 3>him at Tavern on the Green. What wow, Yeah, Grandma

0:47:45.800 --> 0:47:47.680
<v Speaker 3>said that was one of the first Thanksgivings she could

0:47:47.719 --> 0:47:50.320
<v Speaker 3>remember that she didn't eat turkey dinner because at Tavern

0:47:50.400 --> 0:47:52.200
<v Speaker 3>on the Green they had to order their steak and lobster,

0:47:53.520 --> 0:47:57.120
<v Speaker 3>especially because Letterman was paying for it. Grandma never missed

0:47:57.120 --> 0:47:59.920
<v Speaker 3>an episode of Letterman even before this certainly never did

0:47:59.920 --> 0:48:02.920
<v Speaker 3>it afterwards. Letterman is seriously a great dude, and love

0:48:02.960 --> 0:48:04.880
<v Speaker 3>that Grandma got to meet one of our heroes like this.

0:48:05.800 --> 0:48:07.600
<v Speaker 3>Thanks for the many years of the podcast, Keep up

0:48:07.640 --> 0:48:09.960
<v Speaker 3>the great work, Come back and see us in Denver.

0:48:11.600 --> 0:48:13.799
<v Speaker 3>That is from Justin Meeks and Justin We're gonna head

0:48:13.840 --> 0:48:16.520
<v Speaker 3>back to Denver at some point, but we should probably

0:48:16.520 --> 0:48:18.560
<v Speaker 3>tell people since we're getting emails that we are not

0:48:18.640 --> 0:48:20.719
<v Speaker 3>doing live shows in twenty twenty five.

0:48:20.800 --> 0:48:23.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, including sketch Fest. We've gotten a lot of emails

0:48:23.000 --> 0:48:26.160
<v Speaker 2>from people who's like the sketch Fest schedules wrong because

0:48:26.160 --> 0:48:28.280
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't have stuff you should know on there, right,

0:48:28.920 --> 0:48:30.799
<v Speaker 2>And yes, we're sorry to inform me we're not going

0:48:30.800 --> 0:48:33.040
<v Speaker 2>to be at sketch Fest for what the first time.

0:48:32.840 --> 0:48:36.759
<v Speaker 3>In like many years, ten years maybe or something. Yeah,

0:48:36.800 --> 0:48:39.120
<v Speaker 3>we're just taking it down yere from doing live shows.

0:48:39.680 --> 0:48:41.960
<v Speaker 3>We're gonna we're gonna be back out there again, so

0:48:42.120 --> 0:48:45.280
<v Speaker 3>fear not. We're just taking it down here. And that's

0:48:45.320 --> 0:48:47.960
<v Speaker 3>like four less trips that we're gonna take and we're

0:48:47.960 --> 0:48:51.319
<v Speaker 3>gonna be with our family. And that's a decision we

0:48:51.520 --> 0:48:52.840
<v Speaker 3>made that we feel good about.

0:48:52.960 --> 0:48:56.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and ironically I just reached diamond status for twenty

0:48:56.320 --> 0:48:56.879
<v Speaker 2>twenty five.

0:48:57.360 --> 0:48:58.680
<v Speaker 3>Oh, I've never been diamond.

0:48:59.080 --> 0:49:01.040
<v Speaker 2>I couldn't believe it. I got the email and I

0:49:01.160 --> 0:49:03.000
<v Speaker 2>forwarded it to you me. I was like, well, now

0:49:03.000 --> 0:49:04.840
<v Speaker 2>I know it's going to be written on my headstone.

0:49:05.520 --> 0:49:08.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and I'll be buried next to you and it'll

0:49:08.400 --> 0:49:10.600
<v Speaker 3>just say sadly peaked at platinum.

0:49:12.800 --> 0:49:13.560
<v Speaker 2>What else? Man?

0:49:14.080 --> 0:49:14.480
<v Speaker 3>That's it?

0:49:14.600 --> 0:49:16.440
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Well, thank you very much.

0:49:16.280 --> 0:49:18.240
<v Speaker 3>To Justin Meeks.

0:49:18.440 --> 0:49:21.839
<v Speaker 2>Justin Meeks, whose grandma has a great story and who

0:49:21.920 --> 0:49:24.920
<v Speaker 2>I assume did not go on to become Letterman stalker.

0:49:25.080 --> 0:49:26.560
<v Speaker 3>Right, I don't think so.

0:49:26.719 --> 0:49:28.600
<v Speaker 2>If you want to be like Justin and email is

0:49:28.640 --> 0:49:31.719
<v Speaker 2>a pretty cool story about David Letterman, or otherwise, you

0:49:31.760 --> 0:49:38.399
<v Speaker 2>can send it off to Stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.

0:49:38.520 --> 0:49:41.400
<v Speaker 1>Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

0:49:41.480 --> 0:49:45.680
<v Speaker 1>more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

0:49:45.800 --> 0:49:47.640
<v Speaker 1>or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.