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Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff you should know a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's

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Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too. And I guess it's a

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Speaker 2: new year because I just had the spirit of John

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Speaker 2: Strickland passed through me when I welcome everybody. Did you

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Speaker 2: hear that enthusiastic he.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, a little bit of a well not a CoA.

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Speaker 3: I guess, just sort of an updating is this is

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Speaker 3: our first recording of the New Year, and we had

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Speaker 3: our longest break ever. You know, I think everyone knows

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Speaker 3: we take a nice long Christmas break, but this year

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Speaker 3: it stretched into November, and so we've been gone for

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Speaker 3: a long time. Yeah, And I'm like, do I even

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Speaker 3: know how to do this anymore?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Same here. I keep making this your sound whenever

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Speaker 2: I move.

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Speaker 3: Oh no, don't do that.

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Speaker 2: I can't help it. It's just I'm that rusty.

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Speaker 3: And also this topic, it's good, but it's uh. We'll

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Speaker 3: try and keep it as streamlined and easy to understand

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Speaker 3: as possible. There's a lot of moving pieces, sure, and

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Speaker 3: there's a lot of Norwegian names that we've I still

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Speaker 3: don't know how to say the letter with like the

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Speaker 3: null set.

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Speaker 2: Uh. I think it's like a bum laut.

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Speaker 3: Is it? Okay? I mean I'm gonna treat him as zoomlouds.

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Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure it's the same thing as anomlout.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Okay, we're still gonna screw up some of this.

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Speaker 3: But don't worry about the names too much. You know,

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Speaker 3: we should just name everyone, you know, Bill one, Bill two,

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Speaker 3: Bill three.

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Speaker 2: Right or leaf tu.

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Speaker 3: But anyway, we're gonna give it our best. Go. Welcome back,

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Speaker 3: my friend. I'm glad to be back in the studio

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Speaker 3: after this wonderful break.

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Speaker 2: Same here, man, same here. Welcome back yourself. So, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we're talking today about one of the more unsung operations

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Speaker 2: of World War Two. Unsung, I guess depending on where

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Speaker 2: you live. If you live in Norway, it's song all

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Speaker 2: over the place. It's like a top forty hit there.

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Speaker 2: It's sung so much.

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Speaker 3: What is now? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it took a little while, didn't it weirdly? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: But here in the US we don't know about it

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Speaker 2: as much because we were kind of tangential to it,

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Speaker 2: if at all. It was more a joint operation between

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Speaker 2: the Brits and the Norwegians. The Norwegian Resistance, we should say,

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Speaker 2: and the whole thing is called Operation Gunner Side. And

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Speaker 2: I have to say I want to give a big

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Speaker 2: thanks to one of our listeners, Matthew me malt Butuchard,

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Speaker 2: who suggested this one. I think back in November. Oh wow,

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Speaker 2: and it got it went right to the top of

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Speaker 2: the list. So here we are talking about it now

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Speaker 2: in January.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm sure you got that email and you're like,

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Speaker 3: unsung saboteur story defeating the Nazis, but still my heart.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So the whole thing kind of starts off. I

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Speaker 2: think back in like nineteen thirty nine when some German

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Speaker 2: physicists figured out that you could split the atom through

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Speaker 2: fission and release a bunch of energy. And very very

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Speaker 2: quickly after that, physicists around the world were like, this

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Speaker 2: is really great. We can come up with a whole

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Speaker 2: new source of energy for it. This could also be

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Speaker 2: an extremely dangerous weapon. And right after that, World War

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Speaker 2: II started and the Allies started working on the bomb,

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Speaker 2: and they assumed that the Nazis were also working on

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Speaker 2: a bomb. So that's kind of like the mentality that

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Speaker 2: was going on with this story really starts.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it was sort of a race to

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Speaker 3: see who could get there first. And I mean I

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Speaker 3: learned a lot researching this. I didn't know a lot

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Speaker 3: about a lot of this stuff, even though we've done

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Speaker 3: episodes about nuclear fission and the like. But there's more

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Speaker 3: than one way to skin a cat, as it turns out,

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Speaker 3: if you want to try and make a reaction big

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Speaker 3: enough to cause a big boom. And one of the

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Speaker 3: routes that was taken by well, not the Americans, I

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Speaker 3: guess the Germans were trying to take this route was

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Speaker 3: to use something called heavy water AKA how would you

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Speaker 3: say that? Deuterium oxide Okay, D two O, which is

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Speaker 3: like H two Oh, it's like regular water. This heavy

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Speaker 3: water is except instead of normal hydrogen atom, there as

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Speaker 3: an H twoo that is now replaced by hydrogen isotope deuterium,

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Speaker 3: which makes it literally heavier.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and the reason why is because deuterium has a

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Speaker 2: neutron where hydrogen doesn't. That's the only difference. I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's still you could cook with it, you could bathe

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Speaker 2: in it. You probably wouldn't really notice any difference because

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Speaker 2: it's two atomic units heavier, so it's not like you

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Speaker 2: would like be crushed down to the shower floor, if

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Speaker 2: you had it running through your house or anything.

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Speaker 3: Or water balloon, fight the kid. The kid's using heavy.

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Speaker 2: One exactly, given kids black eyes at that thing. Yeah. So,

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Speaker 2: but the reason that it was useful or is useful

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Speaker 2: still in nuclear reactions is because of that neutron that

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Speaker 2: it has. Right, So, when you carry out a nuclear

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Speaker 2: reaction that produces an explosion, you have an uncontrolled nuclear reaction.

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Speaker 2: That's the one that where it just goes kaboom and

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Speaker 2: a huge amount of energy is released at once.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the whole point.

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Speaker 2: Yes, for the bomb part. But to make the stuff

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Speaker 2: that actually blows up, usually plutonium, you have to carry

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Speaker 2: out controlled nuclear reactions, and to make it controlled to

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Speaker 2: kind of bring some order to the chaos and slow

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Speaker 2: things down just enough that it will never explode, yet

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Speaker 2: it will still produce energy that you can use to

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Speaker 2: create plutonium. If you bash uranium with a bunch of neutrons,

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Speaker 2: you add a moderator, and heavy water is a moderator

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Speaker 2: because all those fast neutrons bouncing around will knock into

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Speaker 2: the heavy water and it will transfer energy to the

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Speaker 2: heavy water's neutrons, but it slows the process down. In

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Speaker 2: the same way. You couldn't use regular water because regular

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Speaker 2: water would be like, oh, thanks for the free neutron jump,

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Speaker 2: and turn into heavy water. I guess, so regular water

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Speaker 2: wouldn't work. Heavy water would work. The problem is is

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Speaker 2: heavy water's really really rare.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's super rare, and it takes a long time

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Speaker 3: to get just a little bit of it. I think

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Speaker 3: it's like, if you're just looking at a regular water source,

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Speaker 3: there's one deuterium oxide molecule for about every twenty million

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Speaker 3: regular ones. So it's not needle in a haystack territory

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Speaker 3: molecularly speaking, but it's not far off. The Germans went

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Speaker 3: the route of heavy water as their moderator. The Americans

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Speaker 3: looked around for a moderator, and they said, what about

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Speaker 3: Josh Clark. He's a pretty levelheaded guy.

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Speaker 2: I just show up with my note cards in a blazer.

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Speaker 3: By the way, our first side track of the year.

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Speaker 3: I remember A reminded Ruby last night that we had

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Speaker 3: a TV show for the probably fifteenth time in her life,

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Speaker 3: and she's like, you did, And we tried again and

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Speaker 3: actually watched an entire episode which one we watched, the

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Speaker 3: one with John Hodgman, and also starring my neighbor Catherine,

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Speaker 3: which was the final episode. How we wrote it but

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Speaker 3: not the final episode and how it aired, right, We

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Speaker 3: won't get into that, but I have to say, dude,

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Speaker 3: you were like pretty good and a lot of that

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Speaker 3: as an actor, and I was not.

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Speaker 2: I disagree, you're always so hard on yourself. You were great, man.

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Speaker 2: You were at least as good as I was. And

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Speaker 2: that's to say you were middling.

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Speaker 3: I think I think you're It's very nice of you

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Speaker 3: to say, but like from an I think I had

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Speaker 3: a real outside point of view. Last night. I was like,

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Speaker 3: you know, Josh was pretty good in a lot of this,

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Speaker 3: and Emily said he really was, And I said, I

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Speaker 3: never felt that comfortable and like I was doing a

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Speaker 3: good job like every once in a while I was okay,

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Speaker 3: But I think you had real possibilities as an actor.

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Speaker 2: Well, thank you. I appreciate that. It was probably from

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Speaker 2: a year spin as an emo drama kid.

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Speaker 3: It was pretty good. Thanks and Ruby made it through

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Speaker 3: the episode and I was like, Hey, that's our neighbor

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Speaker 3: and that's John, you know John, so that I think,

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Speaker 3: you know, helped hold our interest a little bit more.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was like the space one.

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Speaker 3: Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, that was a good one. It

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Speaker 3: was was pretty good. So long way of saying, you

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Speaker 3: were not available as moderator because you weren't born yet.

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Speaker 3: So the US ended up pursuing graphite as a moderator.

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Speaker 3: Either one can be used. We went graphite. The Germans,

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Speaker 3: I guess we'll get to there the reason they went

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Speaker 3: with hard water toward the end, right, yes, and tag

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Speaker 3: that in the end, yeah, I think so. All right,

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Speaker 3: So anyway, hard water is what they're after. And as

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Speaker 3: it turns out, there was a chemist in Norway named

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Speaker 3: Leif Trunstad leaf t leaf tea, yeah exactly, who was

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Speaker 3: who understood how to find these molecules in the best

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Speaker 3: way possible because he was doing it for a different

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Speaker 3: reason there, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So Tronstad was one of these early people who was like, hey,

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Speaker 2: this is weird and different and new, and we can

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Speaker 2: figure out how to get at least very small amounts

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Speaker 2: of it, and there's gotta be some cool uses for this,

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Speaker 2: like scientific, non weapony uses. And one of the ones

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Speaker 2: that he thought of very early on was used as

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Speaker 2: a tracer, which I guess you'd give somebody a glass

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Speaker 2: of heavy water and then you know, look at their

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Speaker 2: kidneys and see if there's heavy water coming out of

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Speaker 2: them and be like, well, there's your leak, right, that's

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Speaker 2: what I.

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Speaker 3: Think, Yeah, exactly. So that's why he was pursuing it.

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Speaker 3: And he was doing that for a company called Themork

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Speaker 3: Norse not Norst or Norse norsek with a k hydro plant,

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Speaker 3: and that was in the county of of course Telemark.

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Speaker 2: Right in the country of I guess Norway, right, sure, yeah,

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Speaker 2: look out a word like Norse confront of you. You're

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Speaker 2: talking Norway.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So he's at work producing a few milliliters of

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Speaker 3: that uh what like every day or so.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, from like leaders and leaders and gallons of water.

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Speaker 2: They would just get the tiniest amounts because I still

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Speaker 2: don't quite understand how they were doing it, but essentially

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Speaker 2: they were separating out this one and twenty million molecule

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Speaker 2: of heavy water from regular mountain water.

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Speaker 3: That Norse black magic, yeah, and.

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Speaker 2: So like the whole plant was originally a hydroelectric power plant,

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Speaker 2: and then they converted to using electrolysis to I think

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Speaker 2: create ammonia, which is very handy, and fertilizers and explosives,

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Speaker 2: and then it was Tronstadt, who was like, we need

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Speaker 2: to set up basically a separate heavy water operation. So

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Speaker 2: by the time World War two broke out, the plant

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Speaker 2: at Vermork I'm pretty sure I said that, right, Vermoork Invermindy, Sody,

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Speaker 2: ver Morek Invernment. Yeah, okay, it just took a second.

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Speaker 2: I was like, well, I'm going to laugh at it.

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Speaker 3: I was making sure I didn't screw something else up. Sorry,

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Speaker 3: that's a quality joke.

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Speaker 2: Thank you. By that time that plant was the world

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Speaker 2: leader in heavy water production.

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Speaker 3: That's right, all right, So park that to the side.

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Speaker 3: They're producing heavy water at a rate no one had

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Speaker 3: ever seen, like a cupful of day. And World War

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Speaker 3: Two begins in nineteen thirty nine, and like I said,

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Speaker 3: the Germans were like, hey, we should try and get

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Speaker 3: on this heavy water train, and they didn't. This not

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Speaker 3: why they invaded Norway. They invaded Norway because they were Nazis.

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Speaker 3: Norway was neutral, had declared themselves neutral. But in April

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Speaker 3: nineteen forty they invaded Anyway and were defeated pretty quickly.

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Speaker 3: It took a couple of months, even though they had

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Speaker 3: help from the Allied so they were no match for

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Speaker 3: the German army and the Germans did as they do.

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Speaker 3: They established a Nazi government there, and the people did

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Speaker 3: not like that because they're Norwegian. They were like, no, no, no,

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Speaker 3: We're going to resist it, went on strike here in there.

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Speaker 3: They didn't cooperate in other ways to kind of just

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Speaker 3: you know, get in the way of progress of Nazi progress.

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Speaker 3: And so the Nazi says, all right, martial law has

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Speaker 3: been declared. If you resist, you will be put to death.

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Speaker 3: And so a lot of Norwegians left, obviously fought from

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Speaker 3: other places, and a lot of them said, you know what,

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Speaker 3: We're going to stay here and maybe work with the

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Speaker 3: Allies kind of undercover as moles.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like a secret resistance, right, And one of

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Speaker 2: those people was Tronstad, at least at first, and then

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Speaker 2: it became clear that he basically needed to get out

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Speaker 2: of Dodge, so he ditched and went to I think

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Speaker 2: he went straight to the UK because after the Nazis

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Speaker 2: set up this program like it was, it was not

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Speaker 2: a pleasant place to be when they took over Norway

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Speaker 2: and the whole thing. Chuck reminded me of do you remember,

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Speaker 2: way way way early in the podcast, we stumbled upon Simohaya,

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Speaker 2: the White Death, the Finnish sniper who was just like

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Speaker 2: a farm boy who like I think, killed more Russians

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Speaker 2: than anybody else in the war. Yeah, I just remembered

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Speaker 2: sim Ohaya, so I thought i'd give him a shout out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but I'm surprised you called up that name. Nice work.

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Speaker 2: So but Leif Tronstad, he became like a really valuable

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Speaker 2: asset because this guy is like the world leader in

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Speaker 2: heavy water production, who has all of the inside dirt

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Speaker 2: on the place where the most heavy water is being produced.

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Speaker 2: And it's very clear now that the Nazis have taken

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Speaker 2: over this plant and stepped it up from like a

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Speaker 2: few millileters a day to like, I think a few

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Speaker 2: kilograms of heavy water a day, that they have designs

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Speaker 2: on making an atomic bomb. And then with the Allies,

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Speaker 2: the three words Nazi atomic bomb was among the most

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Speaker 2: frightening combination of words you could possibly come up with.

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Speaker 2: And even today you know, you're like, got a Nazi

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Speaker 2: atomic bomb, that'd be horrible, And then you remember, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: the Americans dropped two atomic bombs on population centers and

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Speaker 2: that was pretty bad too. Yet still, somehow Nazi atomic

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Speaker 2: bomb seems even worse.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it does. So he, like you said, went to

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Speaker 3: the UK. There he met up in real life with

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Speaker 3: the intelligence people he'd been working with, you know, on

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Speaker 3: the down low from a long distance, which imagine was

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Speaker 3: a pretty fun meeting. They probably hit some tea and

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Speaker 3: caught up in person. And he started training these commando

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Speaker 3: units to be saboteurs to eventually do their their you know,

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Speaker 3: saboteur work in Norway, and the whole time was staying

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Speaker 3: in contact with his allies at the at the plant

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Speaker 3: there at Vmork and eventually, and we're just gonna say

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Speaker 3: these names again. I wish we could all nickname them

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Speaker 3: all to make it easier to keep up with. But

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Speaker 3: one of the guys there that he kept in touch with,

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Speaker 3: who will play it part in this story, is named

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Speaker 3: Ainar skinner Land. That's pretty easy. Yeah. Uh, swallow Blue

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Speaker 3: was his code name. And that feels like a pretty

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Speaker 3: good place for a break.

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Speaker 2: I think it is.

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Speaker 3: Yes, all right, so we do remember how to do this,

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Speaker 3: and we'll be right back right after this.

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Speaker 1: I want to learn about a terris ort and call

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Speaker 1: it treadactyl, how to take a bergery, all about fractals

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Speaker 1: gone that's another hunt the Liz Plane everything. Word up, Jerry.

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Speaker 2: Chuck. Have you seen that movie The Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare.

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Speaker 2: It's like a Newish guy ritchie movie. No, it's pretty good.

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Speaker 2: Actually all right, it's like an easy watch, like there's

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Speaker 2: it's not some big, huge sweeping epic or something you

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Speaker 2: have to really, you know, keep up with. It's just

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Speaker 2: a kind of an.

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Speaker 3: In richie movie.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right, well I would call Snatch kind of convoluted.

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Speaker 3: Oh well, sure with accents.

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Speaker 2: Sure, But there actually was something called the Ministry of

295
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Speaker 2: Ungentlemanly Warfare. That was the nickname for it. It was

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Speaker 2: called the Special Operations Executive officially, and they basically trained saboteurs.

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Speaker 2: So that's who Leif Tronstad threw his lot in with.

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Speaker 2: And one of the first things they did for the

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Speaker 2: Norwegians was send them to Scotland and have them train

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Speaker 2: in like extreme weather as much as they could. But

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking, like the Norwegians would be like, this is

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Speaker 2: this is like summer to us? What is this like

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Speaker 2: they I don't see why they would need to train

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Speaker 2: in Scotland, but trained they were. Yeah, And the reason

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Speaker 2: why they were trained for extreme weather and extreme conditions.

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Speaker 2: Because of the location of the the Mark power plant

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Speaker 2: or I guess heavy water plant. It was in a

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Speaker 2: really forbidding place that you would not want to go

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Speaker 2: to without like a car.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was. It was tough. I would say, you'd

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Speaker 3: need one of those cool old army jeeps if you

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Speaker 3: wanted to get there. Back then, it was surrounded to

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Speaker 3: buy a plateau, a mountain plateau called here we go Hardanga,

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Speaker 3: Vita perfect. That's got to mean danger or something.

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Speaker 2: I think it actually means like wide mountain plateau.

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Speaker 3: Danger.

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Speaker 2: I looked. I looked it up because I thought so too.

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Speaker 2: I was like, that's got to be like the name

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Speaker 2: of a god that's going to kill you or something. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it means it means high mountain plateau.

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Speaker 3: I think Vita might be a plateau really uh maybe

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Speaker 3: hard danger. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: So wait so that Oh, what was the guy's name,

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Speaker 2: Ricky Uh, I can't remember, but he was saying, like

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Speaker 2: living the plateau loco, Oh God, Ricky Martin, Ricky Martin,

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Speaker 2: Ricky Martin from Menudo.

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Speaker 3: That's right. Shout out to Bernudo. You knew that was coming.

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Speaker 3: I did not know they were going to make an appearance,

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Speaker 3: all right, So it was rounded by that mountain plateau.

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Speaker 3: It is a very very cold place. I think Livia

331
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Speaker 3: dug up this kind of old factoid. It freezes flames

332
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Speaker 3: in the fires, is how cold it was there, Not literally,

333
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Speaker 3: of course, but you know those Norwegians are with a

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Speaker 3: turn of a phrase. So Americans came in and they said,

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Speaker 3: why don't we just drop a bunch of bombs on

336
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Speaker 3: this plant? What's your problem with these saboteurs and they

337
00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:29,600
Speaker 3: said no. Tron said was like, we've got ammonia tanks there,

338
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Speaker 3: liquid ammonia. You're definitely going to kill a bunch of

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Speaker 3: civilians nearby. And all this stuff is underground, under concrete

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Speaker 3: and metal in these bunkers, and it probably wouldn't destroy

341
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Speaker 3: everything you wanted to destroy anyway. He also, you know,

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Speaker 3: didn't say this out loud, but was like, I don't

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Speaker 3: want you to destroy the only hard water plant we

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Speaker 3: have because this is a valuable thing, and all of

345
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Speaker 3: a sudden you would kind of own not the patent

346
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Speaker 3: but the process for that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and after the war, who knows who's going to

348
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Speaker 2: need that stuff? So exactly, Yeah, it was a little

349
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:03,359
Speaker 2: bit of national pride too, that was driving it, so

350
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Speaker 2: he actually talked him out of it. The Allies or

351
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Speaker 2: the Americans, I guess we're put off for a little while,

352
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Speaker 2: and they're like, all right, you go ahead and do

353
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Speaker 2: your little sabotage thing. Let's see how you do. So

354
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Speaker 2: that whole group of Norwegian resistance fighters was called Company

355
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Speaker 2: Ling and Company Ling I kind of made it over

356
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Speaker 2: as the group of trained saboteurs from the Special Operations Executive,

357
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Speaker 2: So Company Ling. They launched an operation Operation Grouse, great

358
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Speaker 2: operation name yeah, but they apparently that so he didn't

359
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Speaker 2: think so, because they renamed it Operation Swallow.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And the whole thing was led by a guy named

362
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Speaker 2: Jens Anton Poulsen, which I think I nailed just then,

363
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Speaker 2: except it's Yen's man, I saidm I nailed it. No,

364
00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:54,760
Speaker 2: you had it except for that, but that's okay, okay.

365
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Speaker 2: So Yen's Anton Poulsen led I think three other resis

366
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Speaker 2: since fighters who parachuted back in Norway and essentially just

367
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:10,000
Speaker 2: became backwoodsmen for months, setting up like a camp literally

368
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Speaker 2: in like a trapper's cabin, yeah, and lived off punting

369
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Speaker 2: reindeer and just basically became the first little toe hold

370
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Speaker 2: of this operation of Norwegian resistance fighters coming back to

371
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Speaker 2: sabotage the Behmark plant.

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Speaker 3: Yes, exactly. So they're there, they set up their camp.

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Speaker 3: They're eating reindeer. It's very sad for reindeer.

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Speaker 2: Sad but delicious.

375
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Speaker 3: You've never had reindeer, have you?

376
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Speaker 2: Yeah? A couple of times.

377
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Speaker 3: Really No. I was about to say, where the heck

378
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Speaker 3: do you even get reindeer?

379
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Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm shure that somebody sells reindeer meat

380
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,119
Speaker 2: and like somewhere Weird, Missouri or something.

381
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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I'm sure there's people in Main right now.

382
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Speaker 3: They're like, you've never had reindeer.

383
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Speaker 2: We always have someone across the pond here.

384
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Speaker 3: Right exactly. So about a month after that, they launched

385
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:00,800
Speaker 3: another operation, Operation fresh Men, because they were like, these

386
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:02,639
Speaker 3: guys are going to need some real, you know, some

387
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:04,120
Speaker 3: muscle behind them.

388
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:04,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

389
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Speaker 3: So they sent in two air gliders with thirty nine

390
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:11,000
Speaker 3: British soldiers and they were just kind of coming in,

391
00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,760
Speaker 3: you know, behind them as back up. It did not

392
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Speaker 3: work out so well though. One of the planes crashed

393
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Speaker 3: into a mountain and killed everybody on board. The other

394
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Speaker 3: one crashed into the ground not where they were supposed

395
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Speaker 3: to land, but you know, a distance from that, and

396
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:28,760
Speaker 3: it didn't kill everybody, but they, you know, they saw

397
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Speaker 3: this happen. The Gestapo found the survivors and executed them, yeah,

398
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,320
Speaker 3: basically on the spot, and also found a map that

399
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,479
Speaker 3: showed that they were headed for the hard water plant.

400
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,520
Speaker 3: They didn't locate those original people, and they just sort

401
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,720
Speaker 3: of stayed there, you know, hunkering down in that cabin

402
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,320
Speaker 3: for a while and surviving undetected.

403
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, so Operation Freshmen was, like you said it was.

404
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:56,480
Speaker 2: The idea was just storm the heavy water plant, overwhelm it,

405
00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:00,800
Speaker 2: and blow it up. And they decided instead, okay, instead

406
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 2: of sending thirty nine soldiers with a ton of equipment

407
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:08,160
Speaker 2: including bicycles, I read, we'll just try a more subtle touch.

408
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:15,320
Speaker 2: So they went to man Joaquin Runeberg Nice who was

409
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,680
Speaker 2: twenty three at the time, and they're like, you're you're

410
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:21,400
Speaker 2: basically an old band in World War two standards, why

411
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,919
Speaker 2: don't you lead a team for Operation Gunner Side? And

412
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Speaker 2: this is finally the operation that this whole episode is

413
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 2: based on. And it was a small tactical saboteur team

414
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 2: who went to the heavy water plant to destroy the

415
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,280
Speaker 2: marks heavy water production capabilities.

416
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Speaker 3: I love this kind of thing. It's just the kind

417
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 3: of thing. And if you're thinking, man, why is it

418
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 3: there a movie about this? There was an older movie

419
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:53,640
Speaker 3: with Kirk Douglas that I don't think, you know, set

420
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,359
Speaker 3: the World on Fire. But I think this could go

421
00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:00,360
Speaker 3: for maybe a Guy Ritchie update totally. Yeah. I doubt

422
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:01,720
Speaker 3: if he would do it after the other one, but

423
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 3: you know, I don't know.

424
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Speaker 2: I don't think he's opposed to making a sequel or reboot.

425
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 2: I mean, Snatch was basically Lockstock and Two Smoking Barrels

426
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 2: done over again.

427
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, he made a lot of several of those Sherlock

428
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:15,119
Speaker 3: Holmes movies, I think.

429
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 2: Right, No, Lockstock and two Smoking Barrels. No, Oh, I see,

430
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 2: you were just trying to take a little side step

431
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:24,120
Speaker 2: in the logical direction, right.

432
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:30,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, that didn't fall first one back, Yep, there you go.

433
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,920
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think the first one was pretty good.

434
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 2: I don't know about the second one. Was that any good?

435
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,200
Speaker 3: I didn't see any of them.

436
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,360
Speaker 2: The first one was not bad if you don't let

437
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 2: yourself stop and think, like, who would have the audacity

438
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,400
Speaker 2: to make sure Lock Holmes like a like a rough

439
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:51,479
Speaker 2: and tumble action hero and just kind of give yourself

440
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:52,680
Speaker 2: over to it. It's pretty good.

441
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and what you know, I can also recommend for kids,

442
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 3: especially younger girls and Nola Holmes you no, Loa Holmes

443
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 3: movies are pretty good.

444
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 2: Both of them are good.

445
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:03,680
Speaker 3: Yeah. I enjoyed those.

446
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 2: We have to do with Sherlock Holmes episode at least

447
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 2: we haven't done that, No, not as far.

448
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 3: As Yeah, we totally have to because I don't I

449
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,399
Speaker 3: don't really know anything about much of that.

450
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 2: It's gonna be like our chess or our soccer episode,

451
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 2: though I have a.

452
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:21,639
Speaker 3: Feeling other home homesy's that get upset.

453
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 2: It's a whole hornet's nests. We're gonna stick.

454
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 3: What are the what are the clown uh? What's the

455
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 3: clown band?

456
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 2: Uh? The insane clown posse?

457
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,880
Speaker 3: Yeah? But what other people called the Juggalos Juggalos? Yeah.

458
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,360
Speaker 2: The guy who does my hair is a former Juggalo.

459
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 3: Ye. I think those are two. Where do you like

460
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 3: to hear together?

461
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 2: Former Juggalo?

462
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, it's like former homesy Yeah, after they leave

463
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 3: that world behind.

464
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 2: You know, hey, I don't think the other part. Let

465
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 2: you leave that world behind?

466
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:55,640
Speaker 3: Oh boy, it's threatening.

467
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:57,880
Speaker 2: So where were we Chuck.

468
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, we are at Operation Gunner side. This guy Runberg.

469
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 3: He didn't know even why that plant was a target.

470
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 3: They basically just said, here, old Chap, we want you

471
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 3: to go destroy some pipes at the plant, and the

472
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 3: people that tried before you all died and you might

473
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 3: as well pip. Yeah, that's basically it. That's all the

474
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 3: information he had. But he was a game. He was

475
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 3: that kind of guy.

476
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean they accepted cyanide pills as part of

477
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,479
Speaker 2: this operation, and yeah, they had no idea what they

478
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 2: were doing. They just knew they had to go blow

479
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 2: up some pipes and that was that. Likes how dedicated

480
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 2: these people were that they were willing to sacrifice their

481
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 2: life to try to blow up some pipes because the

482
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 2: Brits told them it was going to help cripple the

483
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 2: Nazi war effort. So I think there was five of

484
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 2: them that parachuted in just like the Operation Swallow people

485
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 2: had before, but they were miles miles away from the

486
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 2: landing site. They just maybe got blown off course or

487
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 2: something like that, and it took them five days of

488
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 2: trudging through the snow, though I think they might have

489
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 2: had skis to find the operations swallow people who'd been

490
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 2: sitting there eating reindeer the whole time. And even when

491
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 2: they found them in this trapper's cabin and hooked up

492
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 2: with them, and now there's nine people in this operation.

493
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 2: They were still forty miles away from the heavy water plant.

494
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 2: And again it's like snowy in February in Norway.

495
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 3: You can just imagine, yeah, yeah, there's a suspension bridge,

496
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:29,959
Speaker 3: there's one way you get through, but of course they

497
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 3: had Nazi guards there, so that wasn't the best route.

498
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 3: The other options were like a literal minefield or I guess,

499
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 3: mine forest that they could have crossed through at great peril.

500
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,439
Speaker 3: Or they could hike all the way down into the

501
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:47,199
Speaker 3: gorge which had like a half frozen river running through it,

502
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 3: and then go to the plant that way and then

503
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 3: hike back up. And so they said they took a boat,

504
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 3: I guess, and they said minefield, no good, Nazis on

505
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,399
Speaker 3: the bridge, no good. Let's just get on our skis

506
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 3: as we do and hike down that gorge. And that's

507
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:05,959
Speaker 3: how they did it. We did need to mention one

508
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 3: little side thing that we've failed to mention is that

509
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 3: before this all happened, when Runberg was I guess, debriefed

510
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,360
Speaker 3: and sort of getting his act together to go. He

511
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 3: went into a hardware store and apparently on a whim,

512
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:24,880
Speaker 3: as the story goes, bought some heavy duty bolt cutters,

513
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 3: like metal bolt cutters, and to just park that right there,

514
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 3: because you know, if you introduce bolt cutters, I guess

515
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 3: in this case Act two, you know they're going to

516
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,400
Speaker 3: cut something in Act three. Right, So he's got those

517
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 3: bolt cutters, and they decide to go down into the

518
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 3: gorge as their route to the hard water plant.

519
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, and again not just going down into a gorge,

520
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 2: crossing a half frozen river and climbing up a cliff

521
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 2: get to the top of the gorge on the other

522
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,679
Speaker 2: side where the heavy water plant was. And apparently that

523
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 2: route was such an unlikely route that the Nazis didn't

524
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 2: even bother guarding the gorge.

525
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 3: No nobody would go down there exactly.

526
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 2: So February twenty seventh they made it for the forty

527
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 2: miles to their target. I think it was the night,

528
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 2: like right before midnight. This team of nine saboteurs from

529
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 2: Company Linya, the Norwegian Resistance are sitting there outside of

530
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 2: the the Mark power plant, figuring out exactly how they're

531
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 2: going to get in, and they decided that they would

532
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,399
Speaker 2: split up. There were five of them and as they

533
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,399
Speaker 2: were sitting outside, they were faced with their first obstacle,

534
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 2: which was a fence. And apparently the Brits had said,

535
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 2: there's a fence, so here's a handsaw. And the guy

536
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 2: who was in charge, who was it, Runberg? Yeah, yeah,

537
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 2: his second in command Canute hawk Lead. We're like running

538
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 2: through these Norwegian.

539
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 3: Names many that sounds pretty good to me.

540
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 2: Okay, so and I know it's Canute. I always thought

541
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 2: it was newt but it's Canute. As I watched this

542
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 2: cool little Nova special and he was interviewed and they

543
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 2: definitely said Canute. He said, Runberg, don't you have some

544
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 2: bolt cutters?

545
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 3: Right?

546
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 2: And Rumberg gave him the bull cutters and instead of

547
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 2: this loud, tedious, laborious hack saw that they would have

548
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 2: tried to use and probably gotten caught using, they just

549
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 2: snipped right through the fence in a few minutes thanks

550
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 2: to Rumberg's foresight back in Cambridge.

551
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 3: That's right, snip snip, so that pade off pretty quickly.

552
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 3: Much more that was still out too well. I think

553
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 3: I got the saying wrong if you introduce bulcutters in

554
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 3: neck two, they're gonna snip something in nect two. Yeah,

555
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 3: they're on the property now, five of the people, five

556
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 3: of the nine provide cover the other two. And they

557
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 3: had tommy guns, they had chloroform. They were set for

558
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 3: an attack if need be, and they were keeping a

559
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 3: watch on like the barracks because there weren't like, you know,

560
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 3: hundreds of German soldiers. I get the idea if they

561
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 3: were going in with the initial twenty nine that it

562
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 3: was probably a couple of dozen maybe. I mean, that's

563
00:29:58,200 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 3: just a guess.

564
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 2: I don't even know if was that many. I mean,

565
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 2: as important as this heavy water plant was, so the

566
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 2: atomic program in Germany, Yeah, it was so remote that

567
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 2: they were just like, you know, I think it's going

568
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 2: to take a few people. We got mines, there's a gorge,

569
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 2: we got people on the bridge. It's fine.

570
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So they were keeping a watch on

571
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 3: the barracks, they were keeping a watch on that bridge

572
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 3: for the guardsmen there, and just sort of waiting around

573
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 3: for any you know, activity, so they could get those

574
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 3: tommy guns out or maybe silently chloroform and Nazi, which

575
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 3: was a dream a Norwegian saboteur.

576
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 2: You know, they want to do that.

577
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 3: So yeah, so the other four guys split into two pairs.

578
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 3: They each had and I get the idea, they split

579
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 3: up in case and they each had enough to like

580
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 3: blow it up in case, like two of them got

581
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 3: caught or killed, the other two could still complete the job. Right.

582
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 3: They got in through a second gate, and they had

583
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 3: arranged with one of the co workers there to I guess,

584
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 3: you know, one of the inside moles, to leave a

585
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 3: cellar door open. But unfortunate only that person called in

586
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 3: sick that day, and I guess didn't seem to think like, hey,

587
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 3: I had this important other task right to do. And

588
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 3: Tron's dad had previously told him though, like if you

589
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 3: can't get in that way, there's a cable shaft you

590
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 3: can probably slip through. And that's what they ended up using.

591
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 2: I's want to circle back and emphasize the fact that

592
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 2: this man was a lynch pin to a sabotage plan.

593
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 2: All he had to do was show up to work

594
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 2: and leave a door open.

595
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 3: He could have gone home right after that, yeah, and

596
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 3: been like I just threw up at the get out of.

597
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 2: Here, right, And my guess this is nineteen forty three.

598
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 2: There's an eighty five percent chance that his illness was

599
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 2: a severe hangover, which makes it even worse. Yeah, probably

600
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 2: so so yeah, luckily, yes, they found that that hatch

601
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 2: was opened in the cable shaft and they basically slid through.

602
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 2: The two who made it through the cable cheft was Runberg,

603
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 2: the leader, Yeah, and a guy named Frederick Frederick Yeah.

604
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 3: Kaiser, Yeah, Frederick Frederick Frederick.

605
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, eat your heart out. Frederick's it's probably Frederk. Yeah,

606
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 2: would be my guest. I like Frederk. That's how we

607
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:11,479
Speaker 2: say it in America. Anyway, Kaiser and Rumberg they were

608
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 2: the ones who went down this cable shaft and they

609
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 2: start getting busy. I think Kaiser was holding it. Go

610
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 2: They're like, we have some extra time, it's right, go ahead.

611
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 2: So they yes, and they went down a shaft even

612
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 2: as well, and so almost immediately they found a watchman

613
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 2: I take him to be a Norwegian watchman maybe, and

614
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 2: they were like, you know, you're now our hostage. Sit

615
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 2: there and be quiet, and he's like, no problem, you

616
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 2: guys do whatever you want. And despite his complicity, Kaiser

617
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 2: was like, this is my one chance, and so he

618
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 2: chloroformed the watchman anyway, And so as he's doing this,

619
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 2: Rumberg went and planted the explosives on the pipes, just

620
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 2: as he was told to do. And right about then,

621
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, out of nowhere, there's a explosion

622
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 2: of glass as a window shatters, and Rumberg and Kaiser

623
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 2: and the chloroform guard I'll turn and look, and the

624
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 2: other two men from the other explosives team come in

625
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 2: through the window.

626
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 3: That's right. They're like, it's just us, guys, We're all

627
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 3: here together, so we can get this thing bombed up quicker.

628
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 3: They set up those explosives, the four of them, I guess,

629
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 3: at this point, and the fuses at the time were

630
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 3: two minute fuses that would have given enough time to

631
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 3: get the heck out of there. Runberg said, no, I

632
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 3: really want to make sure we hear this thing go off.

633
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 3: So we're going to go down to thirty seconds. I

634
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 3: imagine everyone said, oh, how about a minute? He said, no,

635
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 3: thirty seconds is plenty. So they're getting ready to light

636
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 3: the fuses. The guard that they had at gunpoint said,

637
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 3: can I get those glasses? Yeah? You know, if they

638
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 3: blow up, my optometrists has quit and retired. I'm not

639
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 3: going to be able to replace those things very easily,

640
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 3: so they said, sure, get your glasses, and at that

641
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 3: point another civilian employee Norwegian obviously comes into the room

642
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:11,879
Speaker 3: and is now another temporary prisoner. Runeberg lights those uses

643
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 3: counts to ten, which means they only have twenty seconds,

644
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:19,319
Speaker 3: and then says run to the two civilians. They get

645
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,319
Speaker 3: the heck out of there as well. I reckon in

646
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 3: the movie, guy Ritchie would really have to sort of

647
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,240
Speaker 3: fudge things, because what is not exciting in a movie

648
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 3: like this is when is all you hear? And that's

649
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 3: kind of all they heard. It wasn't a huge explosion.

650
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 3: It's not like they were blowing up this entire plant

651
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 3: like he would probably do in a movie. They were

652
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 3: just trying to damage these pipes, and he said that

653
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 3: later on, he said they heard a tiny, insignificant pop.

654
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 3: Also because it was underground under that concrete and stuff.

655
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 3: Windows did break though, enough at least to rouse some

656
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 3: sleeping Nazis. This part is very movie like because the

657
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 3: four that were guarding kind of watched as half dressed

658
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 3: Nazi gets out and was like, oh, do I hear anything?

659
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 3: Do I hear anything? But apparently that was a pretty

660
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:08,439
Speaker 3: noisy plant. So he just goes back to bed.

661
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 2: I can't help but imagining like a Sergeant Schultz type, yeah,

662
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 2: stumbling out totally. So, yeah, it wasn't a big deal.

663
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 2: And as a matter of fact, I mean it turned

664
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:20,840
Speaker 2: out to be a big deal, but like, yeah, it

665
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 2: didn't cause like that huge explosion where guards start coming

666
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 2: out of nowhere and you know, there's alarms going off

667
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 2: and searchlights coming on. It wasn't anything like that. And

668
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 2: in fact, all nine people who were the saboteurs in

669
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:37,879
Speaker 2: this operation got away. They escaped scott free, and in retrospect,

670
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 2: not a single bullet was fired and not a single

671
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:45,760
Speaker 2: person died in this highly successful, amazingly daring sabotage operation.

672
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,800
Speaker 3: That's right, but that is not the end of the story.

673
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 3: So maybe we should take our second break, yes, and

674
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 3: we'll come back and finish up right after this.

675
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: I want to learn about a terror sort and college

676
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 1: fred actl how to take a berg fractal gink is gone.

677
00:35:58,880 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: That's a little hunt.

678
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 3: The boarder murders and they kind of all rung on

679
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 3: the slane.

680
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 1: Everything sport up. Jerry.

681
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 3: All right, So, as you said, the saboteurs got away.

682
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 3: I think one of them, Poulsen, took off to Scotland

683
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 3: by sea. Runenberg and the and the rest of the

684
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,920
Speaker 3: gang stayed on their skis as the Norwegians do. They

685
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:38,360
Speaker 3: skid about two hundred miles, which is like nothing for them.

686
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 3: They skid to Sweden. In fact, with Nazis chasing them,

687
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 3: they had planes above trying to locate them. Like that

688
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 3: part would be a pretty good part of the movie,

689
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 3: I guess. But they got away, and there was a

690
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 3: German head of the German special forces in Norway who

691
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 3: called it the most splendid coup. However, it only took

692
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,359
Speaker 3: a few months before where the Nazis were able to

693
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 3: restart production at the plant. I think this happened in February,

694
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 3: so in May of that same year they had ramped

695
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 3: back up to full capacity, which seems like a big disappointment.

696
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,400
Speaker 3: But no, because here come the Americans with their initial

697
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 3: plan to just bomb the plant, and just like they

698
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,280
Speaker 3: were warned, it did not do a ton of damage

699
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,800
Speaker 3: to anyone but the twenty two Norwegian civilians who were killed.

700
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:30,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like this heavy water plant was in this basement

701
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 2: of a power plant, so it was not easy to

702
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:35,800
Speaker 2: get to as far as like aerial bombs are.

703
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 3: Concerned, especially the bombs back then, you know, yeah for real.

704
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,839
Speaker 2: But the thing is it did show the Nazis that like, hey,

705
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 2: this remote, isolated, actually surprisingly vulnerable plant. Yeah, that's like

706
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 2: the one source of our heavy water. We should probably

707
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,839
Speaker 2: stop creating heavy water there and move the operations to Germany. Yeah,

708
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 2: so they did. Remember the Nazi heavy water program is

709
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 2: set back a few months, and this is at a

710
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 2: time where the Allies are racing in the Manhattan Project

711
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 2: to create the atomic bomb. Assuming the Nazis are in

712
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 2: the same race as them. The Allies understand that we

713
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 2: can do this in like two three years. So to

714
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 2: set back a Nazi atomic program three months is an

715
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 2: enormous setback in a two or three year race to

716
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,360
Speaker 2: become the first to come up with an atomic bomb.

717
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 2: So from that standpoint, even at the time, they were like,

718
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 2: that was a very successful operation, even though, like you said,

719
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 2: the Nazis got back up to full full capacity in

720
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 2: just a couple of months. But as we said, they

721
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 2: were moving everything to Germany, and I guess the company

722
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 2: linga crew, the Norwegian freedom fighters, they were keeping an

723
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 2: eye on all the movements of the heavy water from

724
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 2: I guess they're moles inside the heavy water plant, and

725
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 2: they knew that the Nazis were going to move the

726
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 2: heavy water, when they were going to do it, and

727
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:02,479
Speaker 2: how they were going to do it.

728
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 3: That's right. So they come up with another plan to

729
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 3: further thwart their efforts, and they determined the best way

730
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 3: to do this was to sabotage the ferry that's going

731
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 3: to be ferrying everything over to Germany. So they knew

732
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 3: it would cost some civilian lives, but they figured that

733
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 3: was their best chance to get it before it even

734
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,240
Speaker 3: had a chance to get set up again. An old

735
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 3: Canute is back on the scene. He was the second

736
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 3: in command there at Gunnerside, if you remember, and he

737
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 3: was leading the team this time. He had been promoted,

738
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 3: I guess. And in February nineteen forty four, they set

739
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 3: off explosions on the bow of that ship. It was

740
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 3: a ferry called the Hydro, and fourteen Norwegian sadly were killed,

741
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 3: along with four Germans, and this again was a big success.

742
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 3: For a long time, they weren't even positive that there

743
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 3: was heavy or they couldn't prove at least that there

744
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 3: was heavy water on board and there was a German

745
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 3: heavy water expert after the war that said, no, those

746
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 3: were just those dummies. Dummy and I guess to try

747
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 3: and undermine the idea that it was a success. But

748
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:09,800
Speaker 3: PBS Nova to the rescue. In two thousand and three,

749
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,879
Speaker 3: they organized a salvage of one of those barrels from

750
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 3: that sunken ferry and they proved that it contained heavy water.

751
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:18,799
Speaker 3: So it was a great success after all.

752
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 2: That was the Nova mini documentary. I watched. It was

753
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 2: really good. Yeah, but one of the things that they

754
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 2: covered that the reason why the Allies were like, maybe

755
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 2: those were dummies, is that there were reports of survivors

756
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 2: of that fairy sinking, that barrels have been floating, like

757
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,280
Speaker 2: some people were trying to like climb onto the barrels

758
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 2: to survive. They're like, heavy water's not supposed to float

759
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 2: in regular water, and so they were like, it's possible

760
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 2: that this was a decoy because also intelligence showed that

761
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 2: some heavy water did arrive in Germany. Well, it turns out,

762
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 2: thanks to this Nova special I'm about to spoil it,

763
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 2: that those barrels that floated were the most pure form

764
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:02,280
Speaker 2: of heavy water that they had mark the barrels weren't full,

765
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 2: and so the air inside the barrels was making them float.

766
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 3: Wow.

767
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 2: Yes, so it was heavy water that they sabotage. They

768
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:10,959
Speaker 2: did put a dent in the amount of heavy water.

769
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:14,400
Speaker 2: I think there was a fifteen ton shipment and the

770
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,399
Speaker 2: Germans were only able to collect I think the four

771
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,799
Speaker 2: that were floating. So it was a big deal too.

772
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 2: But again, eighteen people lost their lives, for fourteen of

773
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 2: them innocent Norwegians.

774
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:26,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

775
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that's that's actually something they wrestle

776
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 2: with in the Nova documentary because they interview some of

777
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,919
Speaker 2: these people we've talked about, and they know they're trying

778
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:40,840
Speaker 2: to reconcile their guilt with the how impactful the mission was,

779
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 2: especially living for decades with that gnawing rumor in the

780
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 2: back of their head that those had been dummy barrels.

781
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:48,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it resulted in the loss of so many,

782
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 3: you know, civilian lives.

783
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I think they were quite relieved to find

784
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 2: that it really was heavy water. And still there's debate

785
00:41:55,680 --> 00:42:00,360
Speaker 2: today over even with the success of Gunner Side, was

786
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:04,720
Speaker 2: the success of that Swallow group thinking of the hydro ferry,

787
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 2: how much of an impact it really had on Germany's

788
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 2: atomic program, and in fact, how much of a program

789
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:16,320
Speaker 2: Germany had during World War two to build an atomic bomb.

790
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. The official historian of the s oe

791
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 3: H M. R. D. Foot Great Name said that it

792
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 3: changed the course of the war. The fact that they

793
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 3: were denied that that regular, steady supply of heavy water

794
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 3: really put a dent in their operation. Olivia Various Stutey

795
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 3: points out another factor was that key scientists were a

796
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:44,399
Speaker 3: lot of them were Jewish scientists that the Nazis were using,

797
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,840
Speaker 3: and they either escaped or were murdered, which also slowed

798
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 3: down the You know, the Germans pursued of the bomb,

799
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 3: but also I think you found out too that was it.

800
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 3: The Germans U regretted pursuing heavy water.

801
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 2: Was that what it was instead of so they were

802
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 2: basically they took a wrong turn right out of the

803
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 2: gate with what they chose as a moderator. I think, like,

804
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 2: did you say earlier that the United States chose graphite.

805
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:13,359
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, we used graphight. They went with heavy water,

806
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 3: which was a mistake.

807
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well they're both really great moderators. But graphite is

808
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 2: available in abundance. You can find it anywhere, right, sure,

809
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 2: heavy water is really hard to come by, so right

810
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 2: out of the gate, the Germans chose a moderator that

811
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 2: was really difficult to get and that there was only

812
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,520
Speaker 2: one place basically in the world that was producing it,

813
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 2: whereas the Americans just went out and bought a bunch

814
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 2: of graphite at the grocery store basically to use their moderator.

815
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 2: So right away that first hurdle the Americans overcame the

816
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 2: Germans ran into. And the most interesting thing is it

817
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 2: was based on a miscalculation.

818
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. If they had have calculated correctly, then

819
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 3: they would have known from the beginning, right.

820
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I think whoever conducted I can't remember their

821
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 2: but they conducted experiments on the viability of graphite as

822
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:07,720
Speaker 2: a moderator, and they basically forgot to carry a one

823
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 2: or something. I think what it really was is they

824
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:14,280
Speaker 2: didn't factor in the influence of impurities in their graphite sample,

825
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 2: and they concluded that graphite wasn't a very good moderator,

826
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:21,800
Speaker 2: so let's use heavy water instead. So essentially, even before

827
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 2: the program started, the Nazi atomic program was just dead,

828
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 2: like dead in the water. Basically, yeah, got to carry

829
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 2: that ice, yes, but the Allies didn't know this, And

830
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 2: it turns out that just the idea that the Nazis

831
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 2: were involved in heavy water production suggested that they were

832
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 2: after an atomic bomb and that the Allies then were

833
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 2: in a foot race against them, and that led to

834
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:50,720
Speaker 2: the creation of an actual atomic bomb. So the Nazis

835
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 2: directly influenced the production of an atomic bomb, even though

836
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 2: it wasn't theirs.

837
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 3: The Nazis being involved in heavy water production sounds like

838
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 3: some sort of weird October fet slogan.

839
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 2: It'd be like, what does this mean. They'd be like,

840
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 2: just drink this huge gallony here show.

841
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 3: I mentioned that film nineteen sixty five's The Heroes of

842
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:17,319
Speaker 3: Telemark with Kirk Douglas as sort of a mashed up

843
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 3: fictional character based on both Ronenberg and tron Stadt, that,

844
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 3: like I said, wasn't like the biggest film ever, but

845
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 3: it wasn't an American film. So we did know about this

846
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 3: operation more than they did in Norway until like twenty fifteen.

847
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 3: State broadcaster NRK ran a mini series called The Heavy

848
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,360
Speaker 3: Water War in twenty fifteen, and that's when a lot

849
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:43,880
Speaker 3: of Norwegian's kind of first learned of this operation. And

850
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,759
Speaker 3: if we're talking tron Statt, we want to button up

851
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 3: his story. You feel bad for this guy because he

852
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 3: didn't get to parachute in and actually have feet on

853
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,799
Speaker 3: the ground for this kind of thing. He finally got

854
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 3: to do that kind of thing in October of nineteen

855
00:45:56,000 --> 00:46:02,359
Speaker 3: forty four. He got under that parachute for Operation Sunshine,

856
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,440
Speaker 3: which was, you know, protecting Norway's some of their industrial

857
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 3: assets and infrastructure from German saboteurs as the Nazis were

858
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 3: on their way out. So he got his hands dirty,

859
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 3: which he'd always wanted to do. But very sadly the

860
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:21,360
Speaker 3: following May I believe in nineteen forty five, he was

861
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 3: shot dead by the brother of a Norwegian collaborator who

862
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:28,439
Speaker 3: he was questioning, so he tragically died as well.

863
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is sad. At least he didn't get to

864
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 2: get to oversee and fly in on Operation Sunshine.

865
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 3: I wonder if he got to use any chloroform.

866
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 2: Maybe so, Chuck, I think that's it for the Norwegian

867
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 2: sabotage Operation Gunner Side. We haven't figured out what we're

868
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:46,319
Speaker 2: going to name this episode.

869
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 3: I like Olivia's title.

870
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 2: Oh man, it's one of the better ones.

871
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 3: You want to go ahead and tell everyone. Yes, she

872
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:59,359
Speaker 3: titled this article like water for nazis pretty great sense

873
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 3: of humor. Yeah, really good.

874
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:03,880
Speaker 2: Well, thanks Olivia for that, and thanks to you for listening.

875
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:06,360
Speaker 2: And how about we set up a listener mail so

876
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 2: I can thank that person too.

877
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 3: That's right. This is from Justin Meeks about Tavern on

878
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 3: the Green. Hey, guys, and this shows you how long

879
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 3: we've been off, because I've been hold on to this one.

880
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 3: My grandma had a wonderful related story to Tavern on

881
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:23,880
Speaker 3: the Green. She was from rural Montana and travels to

882
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 3: New York in the late nineties with a group of

883
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:29,840
Speaker 3: old ladies over Thanksgiving. One of her traveling group actually

884
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:34,319
Speaker 3: had sold David Letterman his Montana ranch, so they went

885
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 3: to a taping of a show and he invited them backstage.

886
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:38,879
Speaker 3: He found out they were going to be in town

887
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:41,759
Speaker 3: for Thanksgiving and invited them to have Thanksgiving dinner with

888
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:45,760
Speaker 3: him at Tavern on the Green. What wow, Yeah, Grandma

889
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 3: said that was one of the first Thanksgivings she could

890
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:50,320
Speaker 3: remember that she didn't eat turkey dinner because at Tavern

891
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 3: on the Green they had to order their steak and lobster,

892
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 3: especially because Letterman was paying for it. Grandma never missed

893
00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 3: an episode of Letterman even before this certainly never did

894
00:47:59,920 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 3: it afterwards. Letterman is seriously a great dude, and love

895
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 3: that Grandma got to meet one of our heroes like this.

896
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 3: Thanks for the many years of the podcast, Keep up

897
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 3: the great work, Come back and see us in Denver.

898
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:13,799
Speaker 3: That is from Justin Meeks and Justin We're gonna head

899
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 3: back to Denver at some point, but we should probably

900
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 3: tell people since we're getting emails that we are not

901
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:20,719
Speaker 3: doing live shows in twenty twenty five.

902
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, including sketch Fest. We've gotten a lot of emails

903
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 2: from people who's like the sketch Fest schedules wrong because

904
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:28,280
Speaker 2: it doesn't have stuff you should know on there, right,

905
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:30,799
Speaker 2: And yes, we're sorry to inform me we're not going

906
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:33,040
Speaker 2: to be at sketch Fest for what the first time.

907
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:36,759
Speaker 3: In like many years, ten years maybe or something. Yeah,

908
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 3: we're just taking it down yere from doing live shows.

909
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 3: We're gonna we're gonna be back out there again, so

910
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:45,280
Speaker 3: fear not. We're just taking it down here. And that's

911
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 3: like four less trips that we're gonna take and we're

912
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:51,319
Speaker 3: gonna be with our family. And that's a decision we

913
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:52,840
Speaker 3: made that we feel good about.

914
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:56,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, and ironically I just reached diamond status for twenty

915
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:56,879
Speaker 2: twenty five.

916
00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 3: Oh, I've never been diamond.

917
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 2: I couldn't believe it. I got the email and I

918
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 2: forwarded it to you me. I was like, well, now

919
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:04,840
Speaker 2: I know it's going to be written on my headstone.

920
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:08,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'll be buried next to you and it'll

921
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 3: just say sadly peaked at platinum.

922
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 2: What else? Man?

923
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 3: That's it?

924
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, thank you very much.

925
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:18,240
Speaker 3: To Justin Meeks.

926
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:21,839
Speaker 2: Justin Meeks, whose grandma has a great story and who

927
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:24,920
Speaker 2: I assume did not go on to become Letterman stalker.

928
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 3: Right, I don't think so.

929
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 2: If you want to be like Justin and email is

930
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,719
Speaker 2: a pretty cool story about David Letterman, or otherwise, you

931
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:38,399
Speaker 2: can send it off to Stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.

932
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

933
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

934
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.