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Speaker 1: This is Latino USA, the radio journal of News and Courture.

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Speaker 2: Latino USC is La Latino USA.

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Speaker 1: I'm Maria in no Josa. We bring you stories that

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Speaker 1: are underreported but that mattered to you, overlooked by the

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Speaker 1: wrestler media, and while the country is struggling to deal

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Speaker 1: with these, we listen to the stories of Black and

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Speaker 1: Latino Studio United Latino Front, a cultural renaissance organizing at

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Speaker 1: the forefront of the movement. I'm Maria Ino Jossa no

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Speaker 1: bayan or La Latino Usa. Listener, Here's an episode the

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Speaker 1: Los Archivos from RX and Futuro Media. It's Latino USA.

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Speaker 1: I'm Maria no Josa Today. A portrait of Sandra sis Neros.

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Speaker 1: Sandra sis Nero's really doesn't need an introduction, and that's

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Speaker 1: because her classic coming of age novel The House on

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Speaker 1: Mango Street, has sold over six million copies, is taught

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Speaker 1: in most US elementary schools, and has been translated into

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Speaker 1: over twenty languages. The book has turned the Chicago native

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Speaker 1: into a household name. With a writing career that spans

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Speaker 1: over forty years, Sandra is one of the most renowned

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Speaker 1: Mexican American authors of our generation. One of her latest

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Speaker 1: published works is a bilingual chapbook titled Buro Amoor, where

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Speaker 1: Sandra captures a moment in the lives of Frida, Carlo

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Speaker 1: and Dio Ribera in the famous Gassin Assuri. She writes

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Speaker 1: about Frida's love of her animals, and throughout the pages

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Speaker 1: of this tiny book, In a first for the author,

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Speaker 1: Sandra includes her own illustration of her beloved animals, her perritos.

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Speaker 1: In twenty nineteen, sandrasis Neros joined me for a live

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Speaker 1: conversation at the National Museum of Mexican Art in the

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Speaker 1: city of Chicago. The conversation was part of wbez's podcast

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Speaker 1: Passport series in partnership with Vocalo Radio. In front of

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Speaker 1: a live and well very enthusiastic audience, Sandra shared details

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Speaker 1: about what makes a home for her, her current life

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Speaker 1: in Mexico, and what her life looks like as a writer. Today,

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Speaker 1: here live from Chicago is sandrasis Neros. Welcome to our

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Speaker 1: live taping of Latino USA, right here at the National

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Speaker 1: Museum of Mexican Art in Chicago, in front of a

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Speaker 1: live audience. Hello, It's not by chance that Santa's most

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Speaker 1: famous work is a house on Mango Street and then

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Speaker 1: her house in San Antonio is a very important part

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Speaker 1: of your life, an extraordinary part of your life. But

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Speaker 1: you come upon a time, Sandra, when you wanted a change,

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Speaker 1: and there was something that was calling you to Mexico.

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Speaker 1: And I want to know what was that that was

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Speaker 1: calling you to Mexico. And when you were saying, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking I might move to Mexico, what was the

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Speaker 1: reaction that you were getting from people.

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Speaker 3: Well, first, you have to understand that when we move,

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Speaker 3: it's many factors. It's not that you just go there

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Speaker 3: and say, oh, I want to live here. My roots

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Speaker 3: in San Antonio dried up. And it's not that I

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Speaker 3: wanted to live in San Antonio. I found a job there,

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Speaker 3: and I found that there were a lot of musicians

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Speaker 3: and painters and creative people that live there because of

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Speaker 3: low overhead, and so that's a great place to live,

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Speaker 3: especially if you're making your living as I was as

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Speaker 3: a migrant professor. You know, I'd go to California teach

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Speaker 3: for semester, and then I go to New Mexico and

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Speaker 3: teach for semester, and I go to Michigan and teach

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Speaker 3: for semester and the money would stretch a little bit

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Speaker 3: longer if I spent it in South Texas, rent was

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Speaker 3: cheaper two hundred dollars a month. I paid for decades,

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Speaker 3: and so that's why I lived there. But after I

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Speaker 3: had been there for a long time, my life changed.

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Speaker 3: I started winning awards, I started foundations. Well, the people

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Speaker 3: used to hang around with, the painters and writers and

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Speaker 3: creative people. We all kind of grew up and went

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Speaker 3: different ways. I especially enjoyed the gay community in San Antonio.

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Speaker 3: The Latino gay community so much fun and very creative.

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Speaker 2: And you have to have a state of joy to.

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Speaker 3: Create art, isn't that So you can't be in some

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Speaker 3: place where you're worried about how am I going to

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Speaker 3: pay the rent? You have to be in some playful spirit.

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Speaker 3: And we had a community like that, but we grew apart.

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Speaker 3: Some of us went to New York, and some of

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Speaker 3: us moved away, and some of us moved into drugs,

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Speaker 3: and some of us died. So my roots dride, and

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Speaker 3: then I went to San Miguel to do a lecture.

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Speaker 3: I would not be living in San Miguel if I

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Speaker 3: had not had some spirits wake me up in the

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Speaker 3: middle of the night and had a paranormal experience. Can

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Speaker 3: you tell us about Yes, I've written about it. And

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Speaker 3: I'm not the kind of person that wakes up in

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Speaker 3: the middle of the night for nothing.

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Speaker 2: If I wake up in the middle of the night,

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Speaker 2: it's on Thursday, I have to go to the bathroom

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Speaker 2: or something. But I don't just wake up.

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Speaker 3: And I was wide awake at about four in the morning,

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Speaker 3: and just wide awake, and I turned the light on,

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Speaker 3: and I thought, what's going on?

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Speaker 2: Is it this town?

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Speaker 3: Maybe I'm supposed to be writing, or perhaps I should meditate.

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Speaker 2: I never get up at this hour. Maybe I should meditate.

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Speaker 3: But before I could do anything, I got a mental message.

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Speaker 3: And I don't pretend I know who it was from.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if it was the Abuelos, if it

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Speaker 3: was the Guardians, if it was Son Miguel, the patron

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Speaker 3: saint of Son Miguel. But it was a mental message,

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Speaker 3: and it was not in English, and it was not

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Speaker 3: in Spanish. It just said, you are not your house.

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Speaker 3: We were trying to establish my house as a place

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Speaker 3: for writers to come and live there and finish manuscripts.

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Speaker 3: That was my idea, and the idea of suddenly walking

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Speaker 3: away from San Antonio, that I wasn't my house, that

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Speaker 3: I was put on the planet to be a writer,

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Speaker 3: not to be an arts administrator. That was like a

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Speaker 3: bucket of cold water. And it woke me up. And

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Speaker 3: the first thing I thought is, ah, I'm going to leave.

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Speaker 3: And with that came this joice. I knew it was

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Speaker 3: the right thing to do.

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Speaker 1: Not everybody thought it was a smart idea.

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Speaker 3: For you to move to Mexicos. Well, it didn't tell

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Speaker 3: me moved to Mexico. That's what friends reminded me. It

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Speaker 3: just said, you are not your house. And I thought, oh, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 3: Well I like being here, so I'm going to rent

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Speaker 3: a house. But I know my time in Texas is ended.

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Speaker 3: I just realized, I think I'm supposed to be here.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if I'm supposed to be there forever,

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Speaker 3: but I know I was supposed to be there.

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Speaker 1: So I'm incredible lucky because soon after you moved to Mexico,

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Speaker 1: you started inviting me. Yes, I feel so blessed to

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Speaker 1: have spent a night, two nights or three in your

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Speaker 1: beautiful house. And when I was talking to my producer

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Speaker 1: actually about my image of you in Samuel Leyende is

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Speaker 1: I said, you know, my time with Sandra in San Miuel,

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Speaker 1: it was when we were walking in the streets. I

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Speaker 1: felt like you were floating through the streets of Sa Mien,

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Speaker 1: just floating through the streets, whether it was the Blasa

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Speaker 1: or walking in front of the Mercado. But that's kind of,

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Speaker 1: you know, like a dreamy kind of image. It was

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Speaker 1: a moment. It was a when you think of your

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Speaker 1: life in Samuel, now, what do you think of and

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Speaker 1: does it feel like home?

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Speaker 2: You know?

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Speaker 3: One of the things I learned moving to Mexico is

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Speaker 3: that it doesn't matter where you live. When you're an

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Speaker 3: artist or if you're a Chicano, you're always going to

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Speaker 3: feel displaced, doesn't matter where, and that you have to

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Speaker 3: find home inside yourself. But that displacement is good.

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Speaker 2: It's good.

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Speaker 3: I think as artists we need to feel a little

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Speaker 3: bit apart from society, that we are watching everybody we

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Speaker 3: don't quite fit in, because it's that discomfort that forces

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Speaker 3: us to create art. So I'm in San Miguel and

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Speaker 3: I see my life as I'm walking there, kind of

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Speaker 3: like a film. But I also understand that I'm not

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Speaker 3: of that region. My ancestors, my maternal grandparents are from

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Speaker 3: juan A Jato. They're from a little boblito outside of Lyon,

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Speaker 3: and I have roots there, but I'm not quite Mexican

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Speaker 3: and I'm not quite.

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Speaker 2: Of the United States.

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Speaker 3: And that ability to move between the Mexican and the

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Speaker 3: expat community is very good because it allows me to

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Speaker 3: view each and to connect communities and to connect them

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Speaker 3: globally too.

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Speaker 2: So I feel that that's our job.

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Speaker 1: So so that your house in San Miuel it feels

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Speaker 1: like a museum, be a museum, Oh, I hope not.

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Speaker 1: You don't want it to be a museum.

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Speaker 3: No, no, no, I don't like what's happened. Like when

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Speaker 3: you go in Frida's house, you know, it feels.

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Speaker 2: Very dead.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's just dusty, there's something dead about it.

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Speaker 3: I don't like how that feels. You know, when you

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Speaker 3: go in a house, it should smell like Cilantro and

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Speaker 3: Saboya and fred Dortiaz. You know, somebody's living there and

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Speaker 3: making galdo. And when you go into Frida's house there's

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Speaker 3: something that's kind of a tomb like that I don't enjoy.

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Speaker 3: So I wouldn't want my house to be a museum.

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Speaker 3: But if it became like something that wasn't mine. It

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Speaker 3: should serve other artists. You know. Too many people have

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Speaker 3: two houses, especially in San Miguel, people have two three houses,

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Speaker 3: you know, one and hasband and one in Canada and

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Speaker 3: one and some again, why can't they let artists be

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Speaker 3: their night watchmen? Yeah, come, and well you make sure

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Speaker 3: you screen them so they're not having parties or anything.

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Speaker 3: But serious artists want to write or want to paint

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Speaker 3: and want to create, and we can't do that when

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Speaker 3: we're not in a state of security and joy. So

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Speaker 3: I think that there should be a program that, you know,

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Speaker 3: you should adopt an artist, you know, and you know,

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Speaker 3: then you go away and you put your your poet there,

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Speaker 3: and then the poet finishes their work and they say

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Speaker 3: this book was finished at and they put their Medici's

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Speaker 3: name there.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: Don't you think that would be really nice? Then you

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Speaker 3: wouldn't have to pay for somebody to watch your property.

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Speaker 3: There'd be somebody making host like artists Airbnb. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I think it would be don't you think that's a

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Speaker 3: good idea?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 3: So that just and I have to tell you people

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Speaker 3: have loaned me their house and I noted it in

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Speaker 3: my books. You know, and whenever I'm in someone's house,

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Speaker 3: I finish a work and I always write that person's

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Speaker 3: name and the acknowledgement's name it. And some people that's

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Speaker 3: the only way they're going to get in a book.

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Speaker 2: Right, right.

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Speaker 1: So when I was in your house, everything was so

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Speaker 1: so beautiful, Sandra, and I wondered about the care that

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Speaker 1: you put into your houses. And then you know, we

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Speaker 1: think about the house on Mango Street. What is it

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Speaker 1: around you and the houses and the care that you

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Speaker 1: put and the time that you put.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, for me, a house is important because

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Speaker 3: it's my office. In this house, I don't have an office.

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Speaker 3: I work in the dining room table.

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Speaker 1: Because there's like a little little table right in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the dining room.

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Speaker 3: Well, there's the dining room table, plus there's a little

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Speaker 3: kitchen table, a table with a pop opener, a little

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Speaker 3: red table that's in the living room.

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Speaker 1: So that's where you're right, yes, like in the middle

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Speaker 1: of everywhere. Not secluded.

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Speaker 3: Well, I had an office that was secluded, but my

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Speaker 3: animals couldn't be with me because the cats lived in

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Speaker 3: the office and the dogs lived in the house. They

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Speaker 3: were always fighting, so I couldn't have them together, but

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Speaker 3: I missed the dog. So I said, oh, this time,

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Speaker 3: I won't have cats and I won't have an office

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Speaker 3: because cats are very territorial and dogs are most generous,

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Speaker 3: you know. So the dogs now stay with me, and

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Speaker 3: they helped me write. I have a little bit underneath

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Speaker 3: for one. And my my little Cholo now she sleeps

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Speaker 3: under my t shirt or my sweater.

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Speaker 2: I just cover her up. She's here all the.

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Speaker 3: Time, and it's really nice to have a dog here

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Speaker 3: one over here.

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Speaker 1: So well, Sandra, you brought up your little pets, your animals.

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Speaker 1: So little Nawi, who is a scholo chiwawa, so this

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Speaker 1: big with a little bit of hairs, like all gray.

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Speaker 2: Mushroom.

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Speaker 3: She's the color of wheat lace, the corn mushroom exactly.

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Speaker 1: And you, Sandra, were with now we literally on your chest.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, she looks like Frida's monkey. So she's like this,

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Speaker 3: always on it.

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Speaker 1: And she's under your clothes.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 1: And the other names of your.

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Speaker 2: Dogs are loose Osvaldo uh.

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Speaker 1: And then there was.

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Speaker 3: Oh, Chavella Argas. Chavella Vargas was just there temporarily.

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Speaker 2: She moved on.

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Speaker 1: Javella Chavella was there the day I arrived. She kind

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Speaker 1: of had a little bit of a heart attack running around,

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Speaker 1: and then Chavella went to stay with your caretaker.

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Speaker 3: It was like having a gazelle in the house, and

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Speaker 3: my house is small. So she went to spend the

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Speaker 3: night at Ernesto's house and never came back because she

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Speaker 3: liked it there better.

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Speaker 1: She liked it there. Your pertos love you so much, Sandra.

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Speaker 1: They follow you everywhere. You talk to them, you kiss them,

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Speaker 1: you carry them, and you know, being there with your perritos,

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Speaker 1: you know, was just an extraordinary experience for me because

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Speaker 1: they were sharing their love too. They were very friendly.

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Speaker 1: But can you tell us what your relationship to your animalitos?

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Speaker 1: What does that bring for you? What does it bring

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Speaker 1: to your heart.

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Speaker 3: I feel sorry for people who don't have a relationship

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Speaker 3: with animals because it's like people who don't have.

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Speaker 2: A relationship with flowers.

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Speaker 3: You know, when people say, oh, I don't like dogs,

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Speaker 3: and that's the same thing and saying well, I don't

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Speaker 3: like trees or I can't stand clouds, it's the same thing.

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Speaker 3: All things in the universe, whether it's rock or a fire,

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Speaker 3: or wind, or a dog or azalea, they're all giving light,

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Speaker 3: they're giving love. And are nourishing you, whether you're paying

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Speaker 3: attention or not. So if you're looking for love, go

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Speaker 3: sit under a tree. You sit under a tree doesn't

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Speaker 3: cost you anything. You feel so much better after you've

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Speaker 3: been next to a tree, right, pick the oldest one

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Speaker 3: when you're confused and get some advice, you know what,

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Speaker 3: rench your face with the wind, and then you feel

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Speaker 3: so much better. All these things in the universe rocks.

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Speaker 3: They teach us so much about endurance, mountains, about standing firm.

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Speaker 3: Animals are put on more. You know, they just met

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Speaker 3: you and they're happy to see you. Imagine people people

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Speaker 3: were like that, not non discriminatory, just.

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Speaker 2: Like, oh, I'm so happy to see you. I never

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Speaker 2: met you before. You're great.

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Speaker 3: That's so lovely about animals, You know if you just

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Speaker 3: like to switch them and they know too. When you're

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Speaker 3: sending them light for me, it's like, you know, if

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Speaker 3: I'm feeling badly, I just need to be near these

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Speaker 3: things and they all emit light just like us.

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Speaker 2: They're not any less and not any more than we are.

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Speaker 1: Coming up on Latin USA, my conversation with Sandra sis

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Speaker 1: Neros continues, Stay with us. Hey, we're back and we're

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Speaker 1: going to continue now with my conversation with Sandra sis Neros,

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Speaker 1: recorded live at the National Museum of Mexican Art in

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Speaker 1: Chicago in front of a live audience. So your most

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Speaker 1: recent work. When I saw it, Sandra, I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, Sandra wrote a book about her dogs. Oh, Gilindo.

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Speaker 1: Sandra even drew her little dog. But the book is

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Speaker 1: not about your dogs. Actually, the book is a snapshot

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Speaker 1: of a story of a moment in the life of

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Speaker 1: Diego and Freeda and La Casasol. And it was It's

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Speaker 1: so interesting because you know, Sandra, I was just at

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Speaker 1: the Casasol, which is overwhelmed by tourists, like there's the

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Speaker 1: lines are so long, and you know, seeing Freda with

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Speaker 1: all the photographs of all of her animalitos, why did

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Speaker 1: you decide to write this?

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Speaker 3: You never know what you're writing or thinking until you

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Speaker 3: create a piece of art.

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Speaker 2: Then you find out.

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Speaker 3: It's like if you know the piece of art is

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Speaker 3: an answer and you don't know the question, the question

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Speaker 3: comes after you get the answer.

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Speaker 2: So reverse.

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Speaker 3: And when you're a professional writer, you don't write when

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Speaker 3: you feel like it. You just go to work and

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Speaker 3: you try to light a match and catch a flame.

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Speaker 3: And I remember looking at a postcard, the one where

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Speaker 3: Frida's with one of her sholos and she's in bed,

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Speaker 3: and the shot los next to her pillow and right

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Speaker 3: on top. But that beautiful embroidered, starched pillow was the

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Speaker 3: big ugly.

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Speaker 2: Dog, and I thought, what is that about?

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Speaker 3: And I looked at it and I looked at it,

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Speaker 3: and I looked at it. I know what that's about.

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Speaker 3: And that's how the story began. But I didn't know

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Speaker 3: my story. My dogs were going to come into the story.

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Speaker 3: I did not know that my sorrow was going to

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Speaker 3: come into it. All the things that came into it,

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Speaker 3: I just followed from a feeling that I got, and

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Speaker 3: the feeling took me to the story, which I immediately

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Speaker 3: after a couple of days of writing it said thought

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Speaker 3: it was failed story. And I put it away for

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Speaker 3: several years and I brought it back out and said, oh,

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Speaker 3: it's not failed.

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Speaker 1: Guys. What do you think about the fact that you

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Speaker 1: have Sandra sis Nero's who writes something and says, eh,

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Speaker 1: failed story. I'm just going to put in a drawer.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, I have very high standards. I think

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Speaker 3: at writers as artists. We shouldn't do the same book.

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Speaker 3: You know, every book we'd create, every art we create,

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Speaker 3: should be better than the last one. And the difference

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Speaker 3: between being a good book and an excellent one is time.

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Speaker 1: So, Sandra, would you mind just reading this little segment

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Speaker 1: right here, and remember this is a story about Diego

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Speaker 1: and Freeda and their animals.

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Speaker 3: The truth was that the mister had always been dishonest,

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Speaker 3: not with his feelings.

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Speaker 2: But with his heart.

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Speaker 3: He would be the first to tell you how honest

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Speaker 3: he was about his dishonesties. He was like a chronic bedwetter.

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Speaker 3: He could not control himself. He would always be a

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Speaker 3: bed wetter, even if he were not given a drop

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Speaker 3: to drink. He had no wish to overcome this weakness,

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Speaker 3: a big, overgrown child, indulging in whatever he saw, his

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Speaker 3: eyes bigger than his bajarto. And so Missus de Ribera

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Speaker 3: surrounded herself with animals, for what could be better than creatures?

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Speaker 3: And one has been betrayed? What finer emblem of loyalty

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Speaker 3: and steadfastness and pure.

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Speaker 2: Love bora more? More? Burro?

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Speaker 3: That's what each pet gave her, pure and clean, pure

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Speaker 3: love and only love.

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Speaker 2: Who wouldn't want that? You know it's there for free.

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Speaker 3: And I never can walk past a lost animal. To me,

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Speaker 3: it's the same like walking.

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Speaker 2: Past a lost child. I have to pick up that cat.

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Speaker 1: Even though it was I mean, it actually happened, you guys,

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Speaker 1: like we really, we were really walking. It was crying

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Speaker 1: Main Street on our way to go to be on stage, crying.

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Speaker 1: I just know how hard it is to pick up

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Speaker 1: a crying cat on the street.

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Speaker 2: It was like picking up a crying baby.

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Speaker 1: But Sandra picked it up and then she was and

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Speaker 1: she was like, i'll see it in a minute, Maria.

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, I don't know where I'm going. She's like,

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Speaker 1: I'll be right back. I know somebody who might be

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Speaker 1: able to take the kitten for a minute.

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Speaker 2: And I found it a home and she found it

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Speaker 2: less than four hours. Yeah, in like two and a half.

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Speaker 1: Sandra. When I first met you, it was the early

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Speaker 1: nineteen nineties. I was a correspondent for ENDPR and I

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Speaker 1: was doing a story about multiculturalism because it was really scandalous,

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Speaker 1: this thing called multiculturalism. What I remember and I don't

378
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Speaker 1: even know if you know this, but the deafen do

379
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Speaker 1: you remember the definition you gave me of multiculturalism.

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Speaker 2: Yes, but I'd like to hear you say it.

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Speaker 1: Multiculturalism is being able to see yourself in the person

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Speaker 1: most unlike you, and I love that. I fell in

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Speaker 1: love with that, and it's really kind of guided me. Actually,

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Speaker 1: I've used that a lot in my life and as

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Speaker 1: a journalist, and it turns out, Sandra, you know you've

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Speaker 1: actually given me a lot of advice over the years.

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Speaker 1: I remember when I came back and we were friends

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Speaker 1: and I was getting ready to write, I think, and

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Speaker 1: we talked about writing, and you said, do you remember

390
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 1: what you said about the kitchen pajamas?

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Speaker 3: That you have to imagine you're wearing your pajamas, and

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00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,080
Speaker 3: whatever voice you use when you're wearing your pajamas and

393
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Speaker 3: talking to one person who could see you in your pajamas,

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Speaker 3: that's your real voice. That's your first draft, because you're

395
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Speaker 3: not afraid to speak to that person. It's only when

396
00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,240
Speaker 3: you're conscious of who's going to read or who's going

397
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 3: to listen, that's when you stammer. So you have to

398
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Speaker 3: put yourself in that frame of mind and feeling absolutely safe.

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Speaker 1: When we were talking, I think it was over breakfast.

400
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:41,280
Speaker 1: The first morning that I woke up in your place.

401
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:44,840
Speaker 1: We were talking about our schedules. We were talking about

402
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 1: that we spent a lot of time on the road.

403
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,719
Speaker 1: We were talking about the ways in which we measure

404
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,480
Speaker 1: the time that we're away. How do you measure the

405
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Speaker 1: time that you're away, Sandra?

406
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Speaker 3: I count how many beds? Like it's an eight bed trip.

407
00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 3: That's a hard one. And you're usually getting up like

408
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:03,159
Speaker 3: six in the morning, dragging all your suitcases from your

409
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 3: room down to the lobby, and then getting him into

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Speaker 3: the car, and then getting in the car into the

411
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,479
Speaker 3: little carrito, then pushing that carrito and it's like the circus.

412
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Speaker 3: He Snetos, don't don do.

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Speaker 2: My gams live? Yeah?

414
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,960
Speaker 3: Ah eh, that's the hard part for me.

415
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,040
Speaker 1: When we were talking about this kind of uh, it

416
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 1: can be lonely. But also, you know, there's a lot

417
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,639
Speaker 1: of expectation for someone like you. You're called an icon.

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Speaker 1: And you were saying that one of the things that

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Speaker 1: you're doing now with your time, and I found it

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Speaker 1: so beautiful, Sandra, is that you said that you are

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Speaker 1: actually very intentionally giving back. So what does that look like?

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00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,440
Speaker 3: Oh, well, in Mexico, I think that looks like being

423
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,879
Speaker 3: very mindful and paying attention to people that come your way.

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Speaker 3: You know, there's lots of people that have great need

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Speaker 3: in Mexico anywhere.

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Speaker 2: You know, all those little moments.

427
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 3: That someone says, cutt it up and no one talks

428
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 3: to them. So you look them in the eye and

429
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 3: you say, oh, let me, you know, give you all list,

430
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 3: but you talk and you make contact, and you know,

431
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 3: maybe you buy them bread or you give them a

432
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,639
Speaker 3: little bit of money, but you most important is just

433
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 3: treating people like human beings. I think that's something we

434
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,119
Speaker 3: could all do. And it's just about, you know, making

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00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 3: eye contact and I say hi to everybody when I

436
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 3: walk down the street and make it go.

437
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 2: I say it in Spanish, whether they.

438
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 1: I've witnessed this she does. She literally walks and she'll

439
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:37,360
Speaker 1: speak to people. Yeah.

440
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 3: But you know, I think we should do that because

441
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:41,440
Speaker 3: I don't you know, I know in Chicago we don't

442
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 3: because we're afraid. We just think like someone's going to

443
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 3: kill us. You know, maybe somebody that don't make I

444
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 3: con and I don't like that. So I always try

445
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 3: to say hello to people. They say hello to me sometimes,

446
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 3: but when they don't, they.

447
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 2: Missed out on meeting me, you know. So that's the

448
00:24:59,160 --> 00:24:59,919
Speaker 2: way I look at it.

449
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 1: So what is the project that you're working on, and

450
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 1: why is it that you want to make this work

451
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 1: that you're doing hearing other people's stories.

452
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,919
Speaker 3: Well, you know, someone asked me if I was writing

453
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,679
Speaker 3: about the undocumented, and I gave an answer I didn't like.

454
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 3: I said something or oh, I can't write that story.

455
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,160
Speaker 2: I don't know it. Even if my heart is there,

456
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:22,719
Speaker 2: I don't know it.

457
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:24,640
Speaker 3: Then I thought, now that's not a good answer. Why

458
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 3: don't you know it? I thought, oh, that's a good

459
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 3: good one. I need to get out of the house

460
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 3: more often. So usually when I go out of the house,

461
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,439
Speaker 3: i'm the author, but I'm not the writer. That's different.

462
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 3: I'm split into like the two FreeDOS. There's me the

463
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 3: author and me the writer. And the writer needed to

464
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 3: go out and so I thought, well, maybe it's time

465
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 3: to listen. And I'm just going to ask people who

466
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 3: know someone because I can't just go up to someone.

467
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 3: They have to know someone, a mutual person that they trust,

468
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 3: and see if they will allow me to tape. So

469
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 3: I've been doing that all of last year and some

470
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 3: of this year. I just came back from North Carolina,

471
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 3: where I came back six months to the same region

472
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 3: where I had recorded. I'm taking these recordings now and

473
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 3: editing them, and I hope to have a script, a

474
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 3: chorus of voices that perhaps could be performed. I don't

475
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 3: want it to just be on the page. I want

476
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 3: it to be something on the stage. It could be

477
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 3: adapted to a song or to performance in some way.

478
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 1: You talk now about the tragedy, the sorrow, deportation, families

479
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 1: being ripped apart. This is a very challenging time for

480
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: anybody who's an immigrant, who's LATINX, who's Mexican, who's a

481
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: journalist or a writer or an artist. It's a challenging time.

482
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: So what do you do when you need to find hope?

483
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,719
Speaker 1: What do you do? And where do you find it?

484
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 1: How do you bring it in?

485
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 3: I read poetry. I think the poets are so necessary

486
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 3: in this time. The poets are doing the most difficult work.

487
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 3: I read poetry because poetry lifts me up. It gives

488
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,400
Speaker 3: me direction, it gives me power, it gives me animal

489
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 3: and more than anything, poetry is what we need, because

490
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 3: what is the officio the profession of poets but to

491
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,239
Speaker 3: tell the truth. And we're living in a time of

492
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 3: such lies, so we need the poets right now.

493
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 1: Santa Rasis Natos, thank you so much for joining us

494
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,719
Speaker 1: in Chicago for this live show at the National Museum

495
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 1: of Mexican Art. Thank you so much for sharing your

496
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 1: voice with me, your gorra son, your work. We're so

497
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,199
Speaker 1: thankful for everything that you've done. Santas Natos, Thank you.

498
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 2: Maria.

499
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: Santa Rasis Natos is an award winning Mexican American author

500
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 1: from Chicago. This interview was recorded at the National Museum

501
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 1: of Mexican Art in Chicago as part of wbec's podcast

502
00:27:54,320 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: Passport series in partnership with Vocano Radio. This episode was

503
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: produced by Janis Jamoca and edited by Sophia Palisa car

504
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 1: It was mixed by Stephanie Lebau. The Latino USA team

505
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 1: also includes Victori Estrada, Renardo Leanos Junior, Andrea Lopez Crusado,

506
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:31,679
Speaker 1: Dori mar Marquez, Marta Martinez, Mike Sargent, Nour Saudi, and

507
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 1: Nancy Trujiro. Penilee Ramirez is our co executive producer. Our

508
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 1: senior engineer is Julia Caruso, Additional engineering support by gabriel

509
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: Lebiez and jj Carubin. Our marketing manager is Luis Luna.

510
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 1: Our theme music was composed by Zena Rubinos. I'm your

511
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: host and executive producer Maria no Josa. Join us again

512
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 1: on our next episode and in the meantime find us

513
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: on social media. I will see you there and remember

514
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 1: note bayas Nunca. Bye.

515
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 4: Latino. USA is made possible in part by the Heising

516
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 4: Simons Foundation unlocking knowledge, opportunity and possibilities. More at hsfoundation

517
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 4: dot org, the Ford Foundation working with visionaries on the

518
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:24,239
Speaker 4: front lines of social change worldwide, and Michelle Mercer and

519
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 4: Bruce golden.

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00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: Son. We're gonna have a live conversation.

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00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 2: Can we talk about Barbie