WEBVTT - SYSK Selects: How Lion Taming Works 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:03.920 Hey everyone, it's me Josh, and for this week's s 0:00:04.040 --> 0:00:07.280 Y s K Select, I chose Lion Taming. Um. This 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:11.120 one came from our Summer of Sam, chosen by Sam 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:14.480 T Garden, who went on to become Sam the Intern, 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:17.400 who will probably go on to become Sam the House 0:00:17.440 --> 0:00:20.360 Stuff Works employee at some point. Um, and I want 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:23.160 you to take a particular note of the segment where 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:25.360 we talk about how the Simpsons are known to predict 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:28.520 the future. It's an excellent example of how connected our 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:32.120 episodes are across the years. That or it's an example 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:37.000 of us later unwittingly rehashing info we've already covered. At 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:39.320 any rate, it's a good episode about an interesting topic. 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:46.479 So I hope you enjoyed. Welcome to Stuff You Should 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:55.560 Know from How Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, and welcome 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:59.680 to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryet. 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:05.680 This is Stuff you should Know. Yeah, uh, this Josh 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:10.480 is another episode of the Summer of Sam. Are are 0:01:10.800 --> 0:01:13.840 oh this kid is good? Yeah? Our friend Sam T 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:18.039 Garden is programming our show here and there he and 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:21.800 Samson and How Lion Taming Works, which is also written 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:25.600 by Debbie Ronca, my buddy. Yeah from New Jersey roller 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:28.920 Derby Debbie as I call her, I don't call her that, No, 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:31.640 you don't, I call her debend If I call her 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:37.160 roller Derber Debby, you did perfectly the first roller Derby Debby. 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:41.679 That would just get difficult. Yeah. Um, well, right on, 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:43.440 this one's just going to be great then, because it 0:01:43.560 --> 0:01:45.200 was a good article too. That's right. And you can 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:48.680 read Debbie's awesome log at freak girl dot com. That's 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:52.040 quite unplug um. And then where are we at with Sam? So? 0:01:52.080 --> 0:01:55.480 Sam has now selected how lion taming works? What was 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:57.320 the first one? I can't remember. It was a couple 0:01:57.360 --> 0:01:59.279 of weeks ago. He's done too, Man, it was awesome. 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:01.360 But we actually corded a couple that he had not 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:04.160 heard yet that he also had on his list just 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:07.120 by chance. We're going to attribute those to him, just 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:10.600 just the ones that we saw afterwards. But anyway, thanks Sam, 0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:15.240 this is a good one. We'll put chuck. Um. Well, 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:17.800 let's see. Uh, I have a bit of an intro. 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:20.760 Have you ever heard the idea that the Simpsons have 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:25.840 a tendency to predict the future? Uh? No, okay, Well 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:30.079 let me enlighten you. Um. There was an episode called 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:35.120 Um Homer h O m R. Season twelve, Episode nine, 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:39.359 excellent episode. It's where Homer Um. Basically they find out 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:42.440 that Homer is a crayons stuck in his brain, a 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:45.639 crayon crayon from childhood and they were they removed it 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:48.320 in his i Q just immediately doubles classic. In two 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:52.520 thousand seven years after Homer Um, a German lady age 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:55.600 fifty nine, UM was going to get surgery to cure 0:02:55.720 --> 0:02:59.320 her chronic headaches. They found a pencil that was stuck 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:02.600 up there from childhood. Did she stuck up there? Yeah, 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:07.160 when she was a kid and apparently forgot they found 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:11.120 they removed the pencil. She's fine. People are wacky. Yeah, 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:14.960 but isn't that weird? Yeah? Sure, okay, UM, here's another one. 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:17.800 Let me see what you think about this. Um Homer 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:22.320 Uh in The Treehouse of Horror nineteen Who definitely didn't 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:25.919 see that one? Really? I quit watching it after that 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:29.200 season twenty UM he goes to vote for Obama on 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:32.720 Election Day and the UM well, it's it's a takeoff 0:03:32.760 --> 0:03:38.360 of Dive de Bold, the the UM voting machines that 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:41.280 had so many problems. He goes to vote for Um 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:44.480 Obama and instead it starts voting a bunch of times 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:49.400 for McCain. Okay, so the next I guess that year, 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:52.480 a woman from West Virginia said that she checked the 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:55.480 box next to Obama and it just automatically switched over 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:59.040 to McCain. This is after this thing came out, okay, 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:04.280 which would mean predicting. Probably most chilling is Um comes 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:07.600 from Springfield with the Spells as the dollar sign. The 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:10.720 subtitle is or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:14.520 Love Legalized Gambling. Season five, episode ten, Springfield gets a casino, 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:18.279 Mr Burns Casino Great One, and in it are two 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:21.479 characters who are obviously based on Siegfried and Roy and 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:26.880 they're with their white tiger, Anastasia. She loves the city, Yeah, 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:32.359 um and uh anastalgia Um flashes back to when she 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:35.680 was caught in the wild by Siegfried and Roy shot 0:04:35.720 --> 0:04:38.320 her with the trick Lizer good and Um spits out 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:42.520 her little bubble pipe and her little beanie and attacks 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:46.520 one of them. Yeah. This is a full ten years 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:50.440 before the attack of Roy Horn. In two thousand three, 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:53.800 during a show at the Mirage in Las Vegas, where Um, 0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:58.720 one of their white tigers attacked him. Monte Core attacked 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:03.000 Roy and basically just ended their career. Right then, Yeah, 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:06.000 I think on that one, it's like if you're gonna 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:08.320 write a Simpsons episode aping sick Green, right, what else 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:09.840 are they gonna do? You're gonna have the lion need 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:12.080 them or the tiger. I'm sorry, you raise an excellent 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:15.800 point here, but it's still it is. But you raise 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:18.840 a very good point. And the point is, Um, I 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:23.719 think everybody who sees someone interacting with the tamest wild 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:28.240 animal you can possibly imagine still will not be surprised 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:32.520 if that animal kills the person. Yeah, because, as Jack 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:36.200 Hannah put it very um appropriately. I think in Jack Hanna, 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:40.880 he was the original Steve Irwin, right, uh yeah, sure, 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:44.120 um he said you can train a wild animal, but 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:46.800 you can never tame a wild animal. And that's a 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:51.279 really big important point in the world of I guess 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:55.839 lion taming. Yeah, and another famous lion trainer, Slash Tamer, 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:59.320 We're gonna probably interchange those words. Said you can't tame 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:02.159 a lion because if you did that, there would be 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:05.120 no act. Yeah, okay, part of the part of the 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:07.400 act and part of The thrill of this for people 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:09.760 is the fact that these are wild beasts, and if 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:12.039 it was just it was a penguin, it wouldn't be 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:15.520 very exciting. No, it wouldn't. I'd like to see that 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:18.279 a train penguin. Well, yeah, I'm putting your mouth in 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:22.200 head in its mouth and cracking a whip. Be fun. Yeah, 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:25.320 it would be. Um, it would be really mind blowing 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:27.200 if the penguin was dressed like a lion tamer and 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:30.760 you were treating it like a lion. Okay, I've got 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:33.440 another lion tamer quote for you, then, smart guy, all right, 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:36.400 Gunther Gebble Williams. Yeah, he was the one I saw 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:39.440 growing up. Okay, at the Wrangling Brothers, he said, a 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:41.440 wild animal is like a loaded gun. It can go 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:45.119 off at any time. So let's end the intro with that. Okay, 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:47.040 let's talk about lion taming. You. You brought up a 0:06:47.080 --> 0:06:50.840 really good point, Chuck. Um. The if you are in 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:54.440 this world these days, it's not lion tamer, it's lion 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:59.119 trainer or wild animals trainer. Because none of these people 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:02.000 think that they have tame animal on their hands. Now, 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:04.000 it's sort of the hubris of some of these early 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:09.680 jerks um that we'll talk about right now. Uh, eighteen 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:12.680 nineteen was kind of when it all got going. Frenchman 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:16.640 named Ari Martine Um, Yeah, hey to our French listener. 0:07:16.880 --> 0:07:20.320 He was a retired horse trainer and he thought, you 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:22.120 know what, I'm gonna try and work with a tiger, 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:25.640 which is very different than what anyone's ever seen before. 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:29.960 And he had a method where he worked himself into 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:33.800 the cage little by little, like just my presence. Then 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:36.120 I'll stick an arm in, and I'll stick my head in. 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:39.040 Take a couple of scratches, yeah, here and there, and 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:42.480 then eventually he found himself earning the trust of the 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:46.240 big cats over time, and he would find himself completely 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:50.360 in the cage. So he was the first first dude period, 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:53.600 I think, first American. He was the first known what 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:57.160 you would call Yeah, first American was a guy named 0:07:57.200 --> 0:08:01.760 Isaac van Amberke and he was around in eighteen thirty three, 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:05.640 and he was when I meant when I said jerks, 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:09.280 because he would apparently like beat these cats with crowbars 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:12.800 and use very violent tactics. Yeah, and he he had 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:18.240 a pretty good um excuse for it or um justification? 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:22.080 Is that sarcasm? Yeah? Okay, yeah he was. He was 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:25.240 a biblical guy, and he would actually act out biblical 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:30.120 scenes with these animals. And his big defense was Genesis 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:34.880 and God said, let us make man in our image 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:38.480 after our likeness, and let them have dominion over the 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:41.720 fish of the sea, the vowel of the air, over 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:45.120 the cattle, and over all the earth and over everything. 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:48.880 Creeping that creep us upon the earth. Creep And I 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:52.200 just like the Bible saying creep us. Yeah, it's pretty cool, 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:54.000 and it just kind of goes on. It's like, really 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:56.920 it's one big, one run on sentence and you can't 0:08:56.920 --> 0:09:00.120 help but wonder um if Van Amberg would say the 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:04.280 whole thing or just be like, just read generous this one. Yeah. 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:07.720 His big his finishing move was sort of insult to injury. 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:09.240 After he would do all this stuff. And of course 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:11.160 he's not beating them with a crowbar in front of people, 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:14.880 but apparently that's how he trained them to begin with 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:19.240 out of fear and injury. And he would finish his 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:22.040 shows by making the lines lick his boots. Oh man, 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:25.920 what sure? I know after all that after suffering at 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:27.800 his hands, you know, it would be awesome, would be 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:30.080 to see the steam Man of the Prairie beat the 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:33.320 tar out of Van Amberg. Yeah you can reference our 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:36.679 exo skeleton cast for that one, right yeah. All right? 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:40.920 Um have you seen Fast, Cheap and out of Control? Uh? No, 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:44.360 is that about robots? You gotta see that. It's Errol 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:48.880 Morris documentary. And it was about a topier gardner, a 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:55.000 robot uh scientist, and a lion tamer and how all 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:57.480 these things sort of intertwined. There was one more a 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:00.439 mole rat specialist. And in the movie, Dave Hoover was 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:04.199 the lion tamer and Errol Morris also worked in because 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:07.120 Hoover was a huge fan of Clyde Beattie. Uh And 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:10.080 Errol Morris worked in this old black and white footage 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:12.720 and Clyde Beatie was almost the fifth character of that documentary. 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:15.360 Oh yeah, yeah, it's really really great. Okay, I have 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:19.680 a really good, um wild animal tamer documentary. All right, 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:21.959 let's here. Um you introduced me to this one. It's 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:24.320 called Cat Dancers. Have you heard of it now? Oh 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:29.280 my gosh, it is. It's so heartbreaking, it's ridiculous. It's 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:31.520 about this group of people who like have their own 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:36.160 thing going on and um love one another and love 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:40.360 their big cats and then just things keep going wrong. Really, 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:42.559 it's a really great documentary. It's one of the best 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:45.840 I've ever seen in my entire life. See this one 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:48.480 out there too was one of my favorites. Now Fast 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:51.360 Cheaping out of Control. Okay, well there it's both on 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:54.440 the table. It's crazy though that this podcast features two 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:57.959 of our favorite documentaries, Fast Cheaping out of Control and 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:01.040 Cat Dancers. Look for a quiz question on that one 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:05.160 and you can get those on Netflix. So Clyde Batty, 0:11:05.200 --> 0:11:06.959 who was Dave, who were his hero was around in 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:10.560 the nineteen twenties. Um. He used a pistol and a whip, Yeah, 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:13.040 to keep things in line. And I think the pistol 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:17.520 was like a sound scare less than like a threatening thing. 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:21.640 You go through a lot of lion shooting him in 0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:25.240 the chest. He gets expensive, but he was performing at 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:31.000 this um, at this the peak of this um lion tamers. 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:35.960 You think of an old timey lion tamer um, the 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:39.120 peak of the appreciation from the public. Sure, because a 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:42.880 lot of these guys they shaped the public expectations, but 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:46.200 they were also responding to him, and the public has 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:51.439 had a role in shaping how lion tamers lion trainers 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:55.120 um interact with their cats, and Beatty was kind of 0:11:55.160 --> 0:12:01.000 the last of the pistol shooting whip crack in chair guys, 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:04.520 the old guy, Yeah, Hooever actually explains the chair and 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:07.200 Debbie's right on the money. Um. If you've ever wondered 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:09.960 why they point a chair at a lion, it's because 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:12.760 apparently these big cats have a have a one track 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:15.640 mine or they're single minded, and so the four points 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:20.000 uh of the chair legs confuse it. Yeah, and uh 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:23.920 that's what Hoover said, So I believe it. Well that's awesome. Yeah. Um. 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:27.640 So you've got on Remartine who starts everything out very 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:33.600 gently using trust yeah um, and basically just exposing himself 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:37.360 to these large cats. He did trust falls right and 0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:41.280 the cat would catch him right. Um. And uh, then 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:46.000 you have um van Amberg coming along, Isaac van Amberg, Uh, 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:49.320 basically just beating the tar out of these things and 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:53.040 using a very different method fear and clide. Batty kind 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:57.199 of carries that torch. And then after Batty things change 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:01.920 and you have modern lion trainers like sigfree In Roy Gunther, 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:05.719 Gebel Williams is that how you say his name? Yeah, 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:10.679 you're the German speaker going to gel Williams billions. This 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:13.560 just my I believe Yeah he uh, like I said, 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:15.280 he was the one like that was very big in 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:17.200 like the seventies and eighties when I was growing up, right, 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:20.600 And apparently he was in an American Express commercial. Oh yeah, yeah, 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:25.040 with a leopard hanging over him the don't we fund 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:28.440 without it days? Probably I would imagine yea um. But 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:31.120 so you you have the then you have this kind 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:34.720 of transition to the modern lion trainer, which was actually 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:38.959 a circle back to the beginning a little more genteel. Well, 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:43.880 that's just that it's like using trust, not using beatings. Yeah, um, 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:48.160 and and basically just spending time with your animal to 0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:50.320 let it get to know you. Yeah. And the whip 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:52.320 they use, even if you see a whip these days, 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:54.400 they're not whipping the animal. The whip is to just 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:57.480 sort of like, hey, this is my space, this is 0:13:57.520 --> 0:14:25.120 your space. Yeah, my space is over exactly spaces over there. Uh. 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:28.760 So let's talk about the psychology of all this stuff. Yeah, 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:33.280 animal psychology and people psychology, because it's really not that 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:37.280 much different. B. F. Skinner there's a person psychologist, very 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:40.080 famous one. Yeah, he created the Skinner box, that's right, 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:43.040 and his children in it. Oh is that what's his face? 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:45.760 I don't know. I thought you're talking about the kid 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:51.200 that was kept in isolation Arthur. Oh, um, baby Albert Albert. No, no, No, 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:54.880 that's totally different. That was fear extinction that they were studying. 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:58.480 This is conditioning that Skinner was all about. Um. So 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:02.320 operat conditioning is what we're talking and about. And that's basically, ah, 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:07.600 connecting a behavior with a signal um and giving the 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:10.040 animal a reward. Yeah, it's like it's pretty much a 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:13.800 one to three cycle. Yeah, it's it's basically saying like, um, 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:16.720 you did something that's any even remotely close to what 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:18.840 I want you to do. So here's some food, and 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:22.640 now you can have the animal's attention. Yeah, like oh 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:26.200 where did that come from? Right now? Um, you kind 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:29.480 of shape that behavior where it's like, come on, let's 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:32.560 let's try turning to the right, and then if they 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:34.240 move to the right, they get a little bit of food, 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:36.720 and maybe if they turn all the way the right, 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:40.040 they get a bunch of food. Um. And then you 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:43.720 have say you're leading them with the stick. Um, So 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:46.760 eventually you remove the stick and replace it with something 0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:51.880 like a snap or a clap or hey, yes, you 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:53.320 hear a lot of that, and all of a sudden 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:55.480 you have an animal that can turn into circle when 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:58.160 you do what you just That's right, and that's called 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:00.880 classical conditioning. Well, it starts with the opera and moves 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:04.760 into classical conditions. Operate than capturing, than shaping than classical 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:10.080 condition and capturing and shaping are part of opera exactly. Uh, 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:14.400 should we talk about Christian the line? I guess I 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:17.920 don't see how we can. It is real, people, If 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:20.280 you've seen this on the YouTube, it is not made up. 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:25.280 Are you sure like you realize what you're saying here? Man, dude, 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:29.080 It's as real as like anything in history that happened. 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:33.040 Like I've seen the documentary about it, and I don't 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:37.960 think it was Christopher Guests who directed it. Uh. I 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:40.000 can't remember the name of it. Christian the Lions, something 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:43.000 like that. Um, you've seen it on YouTube. In nineteen 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:48.000 the nineteen sixty nine, late sixties, Um, a couple of Aussies, 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:53.760 John Rindell and Ace Bork, bought a lion from a 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:57.480 department store in London, Herod's did. Now they sold lions 0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:01.280 back then, Harrod's does. It was sort of the head 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:03.120 of London at the time. It was like the swinging 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:05.920 sixties and these dudes were known for having this lion 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:09.120 and like throwing parties and stuff. It was like pretty cool. 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:12.280 And uh the line got bigger, of course, and it 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:15.000 had to release into the wild with the help of 0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:17.760 the born free people. And then there's of course the 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:22.159 famous video where they went um to visit this lion. Uh, 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:26.560 like it was it years later. It was seventy three 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:29.000 or two, I think two. I'm not sure when they 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:31.000 released him, but it was. It was quite a while later, 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:33.840 and it was a few years the line jumps up 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:35.800 in like hugs the guys. It was amazing. It was 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:40.520 pretty amazing. Yeah, are you sure it's real? I'm as 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:45.840 sure that that's real as that you're real. Otherwise that 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:49.119 the biggest hoax has been pulled over the world. I 0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:52.520 don't start that. I think the Howard Hughes biography was Christians. 0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:56.560 That was pretty good. Um, but as Debbie points out, 0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:59.560 for every Christian the lion there's a sick freed and roy. Yes, 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:02.480 we already kind of covered, but I think we should 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:04.879 go a little more into it. Yeah, there's some different 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:07.400 theories out there. So in two thousand and three, they 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:09.840 were um sig Freed and Roy were doing their thing 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:13.800 and apparently they had like I think three thousand of 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:17.760 these performances under their belts already. Yeah, they were working 0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:21.040 with Manticor or monta Core sorry, who was one of 0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:25.439 their tigers, Um, who they'd raised from a cub and 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:28.800 he was now seven years old. Um, so they knew 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:32.680 this this tiger intimately like they were its parents for 0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:34.960 all intents and purposes. And that's one of the keys 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:37.720 to with line taming is that you raised them from 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:40.440 a cub. They're not going on and getting these tigers 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:43.920 from the savannah that are grown and then taming them. 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:47.760 So the Simpsons were wrong in their respect. But um 0:18:47.920 --> 0:18:52.480 so during this performance, uh, something happened. Um mont Core 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:59.080 grabbed Roy Um by his wind pipe and dragged him 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:03.840 off stage from the outset. Um. Roy, by the way, 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:07.119 is now partially paralyzed and as a crushed tray chia 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:10.000 because of this, but from the outset, from the moment 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:15.000 he regained consciousness, Roy said, do not destroy Monticore. He 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:18.159 was like he something happened. He wasn't trying to hurt me, 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:21.080 he was trying to protect me, and he was just 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:24.639 dragging me away from whatever it was. Roy suggested that 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:28.040 possibly he had a stroke and that freaked out the tiger. 0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:32.119 Tiger picked up on it. Um. It's also been theorized 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:36.160 that a woman this is almost like the lone gunman theory. Actually, 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:37.840 this is the one. I believe a woman with a 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:41.800 beehive hair do, sitting toward the front row or possibly 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:44.879 in the front row, was like distracted and confused the 0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:48.960 tiger um, which I guess maybe the tiger was trying 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:51.720 to get Roy away from the beehive. Well, what happened 0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:54.959 the accounts I read is that this tiger became transfixed 0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:58.520 on this lady and like started walking towards the lady, 0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:04.600 and so Roy jumped in between them, and uh, the 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:07.919 tiger grabbed ahold of his wrist at this point, and 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:10.560 Roy bopped him on the nose with the microphone was 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:13.880 going release, release, and he released him and he fell 0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:18.120 backward at that point, and I think that's when the tiger, 0:20:18.600 --> 0:20:21.800 the tiger you want to say, lying, that's when he 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:23.919 thought that Roy was in trouble because it was a 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:27.160 big brujah, all a sudden with him falling over. People 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:29.719 rushed out there in the confusion. They think that he 0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:32.480 grabbed him like you would grab a baby kitten around 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:35.919 the neck to pull it off stage. So that's I 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:38.560 believe that that's sound sensible. But he didn't let go 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:41.600 like they sprayed him when this fire extinguisher and they 0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:44.359 beat him with the fire extinguisher until he let go 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:49.080 and UM cut his uh what do you call it? 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:55.640 The yeah, no, but the bleeder the jug. Yeah. Well, 0:20:55.760 --> 0:20:59.080 Roy is still alive. He survived UM and they actually 0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:02.600 UM had a final performance in two thousand nine, six 0:21:02.680 --> 0:21:06.000 years later with monticor with mont Core because he's still alive. 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:09.879 Yep Um. And he was at the Secret Garden and 0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:13.800 Dolphin Habitat. I've been there. It's pretty awesome. Where is 0:21:13.840 --> 0:21:17.880 this It's in Vegas. I can't remember what hotel it's at, 0:21:18.359 --> 0:21:22.640 but well, the Mirrage is where they performed, but I 0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:25.960 feel like they if it's it, maybe at the rush Um. 0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:29.359 I can't remember. It's also possible it was at another place. 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:32.600 But anyway, they have like their lions and a couple 0:21:32.600 --> 0:21:35.000 of tigers. They have a bunch of stuff, and it's 0:21:35.040 --> 0:21:38.480 sad because it's a small zoo. But I'm sure these 0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:41.119 animals are treated better than the average animal at a zoo. 0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:45.359 But I mean they're in these enclosed habitats. Well, they 0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:48.960 get investigated, just like modern circuses do. I think their 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:53.480 routine checks by which government agency is it the U 0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:54.879 s d A. The U s d E does that, 0:21:55.000 --> 0:21:58.199 they do circuses, zoos, that kind of thing. Um. The 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:01.240 thing is is, if you're an animal welfare group, you 0:22:01.359 --> 0:22:03.760 probably don't think the U. S d A is doing enough. 0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:06.320 And even if they are following the letter of the law, 0:22:06.359 --> 0:22:08.680 you probably think the letter of the law isn't strong enough. 0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:12.680 And supposedly every single major circus in the United States 0:22:12.720 --> 0:22:17.280 has been cited for violating the Animal Welfare Act. Um. So, 0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:20.200 I think the whole concept behind lion taming and lining 0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:24.639 training is fascinating for most people. But then you take 0:22:24.680 --> 0:22:27.120 another step further and you're like, these are wild animals 0:22:27.119 --> 0:22:29.760 and captivity, Like what are you doing? Yeah, why is 0:22:29.800 --> 0:22:33.439 your head in its mouth? Exactly? And I'm glad you 0:22:33.440 --> 0:22:35.320 brought that up, because then in the introduction there's a 0:22:35.359 --> 0:22:38.320 pretty good description of what a lion can do. A 0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:41.159 lion's mouth can open up wider than your head is 0:22:41.200 --> 0:22:45.960 tall a foot three centimeters. It's also, um, capable of 0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:50.000 crushing a bull spine. I love that reference that that 0:22:50.160 --> 0:22:53.840 just sounds tough. It is to spine of a bull. Yeah. Um, 0:22:53.960 --> 0:22:57.320 and uh the clause are about three inches long. Pretty 0:22:57.320 --> 0:23:00.800 serious stuff. So I mean, yeah, this is very serious 0:23:00.840 --> 0:23:03.120 stuff if you're a lion trainer. But at the same time, 0:23:03.160 --> 0:23:08.359 it's like, you know, how do you justify having this act? 0:23:09.280 --> 0:23:12.120 What's the act for? What's it doing? Yeah? Is it? 0:23:12.160 --> 0:23:15.200 Is it protecting? Is it conserving? What is it raising awareness? 0:23:15.440 --> 0:23:18.040 I think people are demanding more explanation than they did 0:23:18.040 --> 0:23:21.000 and say the time of Clyde Beattie, well yeah, because 0:23:21.040 --> 0:23:23.359 back then it was fun to poke in pride things 0:23:23.440 --> 0:23:26.680 that you thought were unusual and exotic, and there wasn't 0:23:26.680 --> 0:23:28.800 a lot of respect for it. Like the initial circuses 0:23:29.400 --> 0:23:31.600 before they were these acts were I think they had 0:23:31.600 --> 0:23:34.480 horse acts, but it was mainly like, look at these 0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:38.440 animals and cages that you've never seen before, and look 0:23:38.480 --> 0:23:42.080 there's a pigmy, Yeah, you a bearded lady and that 0:23:42.119 --> 0:23:45.560 guy stinks so um. And I think Isaac van Jerk 0:23:45.680 --> 0:23:46.800