1 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:11,560 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to save your production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 2: I'm Annie Reechos and I'm more on Vogel Bum and 3 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 2: today we have an episode for you about the Laruez Gastronomique. 4 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: Which I had never heard of. Oh really, Oh but 5 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: I know for a fact doing this research. We have 6 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: referenced it before in other episodes, but I don't think 7 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: I've ever like put together that it was this big deal. Yeah, 8 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: really should have. 9 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 2: No, that's okay if you if you didn't know about it, 10 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 2: you didn't know about it, and that's fine. There's there's 11 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 2: no no, no shame in that. I grew up with 12 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 2: a copy in my household. My father had a copy 13 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 2: of the nineteen seventy seven translation of the nineteen sixty edition, 14 00:00:57,480 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 2: which is on my desk right now as we are 15 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 2: recording this, taking up a really enormous amount of room. 16 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: Yes, Lauren showed me at beforehand, and quite quite substantial. 17 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I will say, yeah, and it weighs about as 18 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 2: much as the free weights that I used to work out, 19 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 2: so that I've gotten a good Yeah, that's that's fine. 20 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, nice nice workout. Yeah, Well, was there any particular 21 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: reason this was on your mind? Lauren. 22 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 2: I think I owe like every year, I'm like, oh, 23 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:37,320 Speaker 2: should we do something extra French for Bestille Day? 24 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 3: And then I write. 25 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 2: It occurred to me that this exists, and I was like, yeah, 26 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 2: what is the story behind that. 27 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 3: Let's look into it. Yeah. Yeah. 28 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: I have a friend who's going to a Bestiel Day 29 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: party and she reached out to me and was like, 30 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: they want some French puns in your dress. Oh. I 31 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: was like, I you came to the right person. It's 32 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: a French kiss is my favorite. But that's like a 33 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: lot of work because the band kiss. 34 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 2: Obviously, Oh okay, obviously clearly. 35 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: Yes. I gave her several suggestions. I think she's gonna 36 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 1: go with French toast, which is really fun. 37 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 3: But that's great. 38 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 2: No, I'm completely into that. I will say that while 39 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 2: doing my reading for this episode, Amazon dot Com reminded 40 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 2: me that I bought a copy of Larius Gesternomik in 41 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 2: two thousand and nine for a boyfriend who absolutely did 42 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 2: not deserve it. So thanks Amazon dot com. That's a 43 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 2: really that's a really great service that you provide. 44 00:02:57,760 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 3: It's wonderful. 45 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: Don't you love it? And that happens it's. 46 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 2: Been fifteen years. I wasn't looking for that information. It 47 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 2: was just like, hey, you already bought this. 48 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 3: Do you remember? Do you remember? 49 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: Like and then you go down and yes, I do remember. 50 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: I wish I did it? 51 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 2: Who on the internet? It gets you every time. Yeah, 52 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:23,959 Speaker 2: that this one, this one is full of rabbit holes, 53 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:26,959 Speaker 2: much the way that this book is. So here we here, 54 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 2: we are. 55 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 1: Yes, yes it is, I say with a heavy sigh. 56 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: You can see our past episodes that we've done on 57 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 1: cookbooks and French halt cuisine escoffier. 58 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 59 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: Oh, but I guess that brings us to our question. 60 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess it does. 61 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: Laruss Gastronomique. 62 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 3: What is it? Well? 63 00:03:55,960 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 2: Uh, the Laruz Gastronomique is an encyclopedia of gastronom that 64 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 2: is the art and culture and history and science of 65 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 2: food and cooking. And this encyclopedia has a heavy emphasis 66 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 2: on French cuisine. It was first published in nineteen thirty 67 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,840 Speaker 2: eight in French, written by a famous chef and writer 68 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 2: of the time, all Prosper Montaigne, in collaboration with one 69 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 2: doctor Alfred Gottschalk, whom there is essentially no record of anywhere, 70 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 2: but I understand that he did a lot of the 71 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 2: science and medicine related writing, so there we are. The 72 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 2: name Larus comes from its publisher, Edischel Larus, which is 73 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 2: a French reference publisher. And yes, this book is huge. 74 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 2: Any given edition has over a thousand pages with entries 75 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 2: on ingredients and preparations of those ingredients and cooking techniques 76 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 2: and types of pans and plating styles and French culinary 77 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:54,160 Speaker 2: historical figures and on and on and on. It is 78 00:04:54,520 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 2: weird and like joyfully stuffy, and not particularly useful as 79 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:03,719 Speaker 2: a guide for cooking unless you already know what you're doing. 80 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 3: Like, it is not a cookbook. 81 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 2: It does have a lot of recipes, but there's an 82 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 2: old joker maybe truism that attempting to follow them exactly 83 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 2: will probably be disastrous. What it is is a really 84 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 2: beautiful reference work and time capsule in a way that 85 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 2: gives you a sort of stained glass window into the 86 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 2: French culinary scene of whatever era. The addition that you're 87 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 2: holding is from. It is pretentious and well loved reading. 88 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 2: It is like a choose your own adventure book that's 89 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 2: going to make you really hungry and hopefully delighted and 90 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 2: possibly a little bit confused. About what all humans get 91 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 2: up to. Sounds great to be it is. Oh, you're 92 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 2: really gonna like it, and we're gonna we're gonna work 93 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 2: this out anyway. We're going to get into its author 94 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 2: and publishing in the history section. But it's been through 95 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 2: several revisions and updates in the nineteen sixties and eighties 96 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 2: and nineties, and today twenty seventeen is the most recent edition. 97 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 2: It's definitely been translated into English and Spanish, and I 98 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:21,039 Speaker 2: think more recently Dutch and German, but I couldn't. It 99 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,039 Speaker 2: was hard for me to tell from my corner of 100 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:26,719 Speaker 2: the Internet. So if y'all have more up to date information, 101 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 2: let me know. And yeah, the Larus, as it is 102 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:34,479 Speaker 2: affectionately known in the culinary world, has fans from Julia 103 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 2: Child and Tony Boordane and j Ken g. Loupez Alt 104 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 2: to Alice Waters and Thomas Keller and Jacques pa Pin 105 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 2: because it loves g astronomy and what it does go 106 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 2: in on it goes deep. The older editions especially are 107 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 2: just really dodgily French, with bear to downright incorrect detail 108 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 2: on anything international and the The American English editor of 109 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 2: the nineteen eighty four version which we got in nineteen 110 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 2: ninety eight, told The New York Times that she was 111 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 2: frustrated sometimes that she couldn't correct things only like delete 112 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 2: or ignore quote. You have to remind yourself constantly that 113 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 2: the point of view in this work is strictly French. 114 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 2: I got the feeling that they still don't take us seriously. 115 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 2: For for example, in the nineteen sixty edition right published 116 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 2: here in the seventies, the entirety of the United States 117 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 2: gets a little bit less than a page. There is 118 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 2: a two paragraph entry on the narwall, though, and an 119 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 2: entry on the Roman mythological figure Escalaface, who was the 120 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 2: dude who rated out Persephone for eating those pomegranate seeds. 121 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 2: He was apparently also Pluto's cook. Huh, sure. 122 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: Does really go places. 123 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 3: Apparently. 124 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 2: The two thousand and nine English edition has an entry 125 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 2: for tacos that reads a cornmeal pancake filled with a 126 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 2: thick sauce, minced meat, seasoned with chili, pepper, black beans, 127 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 2: or avocado pure with onion. 128 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: Hmm, which is not really how I would describe docco. 129 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:32,719 Speaker 3: But no, yeah, anyway, it could be. 130 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:35,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean right, I mean that can be a 131 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 2: version of a taco anyway. Yeah, but like, okay, you 132 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 2: want to know about eel. There is information on different 133 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 2: varieties of eels, and then a section of basics about 134 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 2: like cleaning and cooking them, followed by forty eight eel 135 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 2: recipe entrees from eel aspects to eel risotto and beyond. 136 00:08:58,840 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 1: Beyond. 137 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 2: There's a section on garnishes that is ten pages long. 138 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 3: Wow. 139 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: Okay, there's a lot of stuff you can use as garnishes. 140 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 2: Oh sure, and different ways of cutting them up. Yeah, 141 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 2: and stuff and different should they traditionally go with just 142 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 2: for flavor? Would would y'all want to want to read 143 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 2: out an entry? I was thinking about the entry on asparagus. Okay, yeah, okay, 144 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 2: I'm opening the book. This is the sound of me 145 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 2: flipping through the book right now. 146 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 3: Okay. 147 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 2: Asparagus a genus of Liliassier, containing more than one hundred 148 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:47,319 Speaker 2: species found in temperate and warm regions of Europe and America. 149 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 2: Asparagus grows wild and meadows and bushy places, especially in 150 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:52,679 Speaker 2: sandy soil over a great part of France, as well 151 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 2: as on sandy coasts on the Atlantic and the Mediterranean sides. 152 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 2: In France, asparagus came into vogue during the reign of 153 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 2: Louis the fourteenth things do Quintini, who was the first 154 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 2: to grow asparagus in Les Rois silas he was able 155 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 2: to supply the royal kitchen with asparagus all year round. 156 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 2: Asparagus officitionalis common. Asparagus has been widely cultivated since time 157 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,839 Speaker 2: immemorial as a garden vegetable. Its young sprouts or shoots 158 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:16,199 Speaker 2: are eaten, either whole or just the tips i e. 159 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 2: Terminal buds. In Spain, young shoots of certain species which 160 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 2: have long, sharp thorns on the stems are also eaten. 161 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 2: It keeps going. And this is sort of long, but 162 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 2: I find it. I find it illustrative, so I'm gonna 163 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 2: keep going. 164 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 3: Okay. Yeah. 165 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 2: A great number of asparagus varieties exist, but for cooking purposes, 166 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,719 Speaker 2: these fall into several main types. A French asparagus, of 167 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 2: which the best known and most delicious is a particular 168 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 2: species Italian asparagus or purple Genoa asparagus, White Belgian asparagus, 169 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 2: white German asparagus. There's also green asparagus, which is subdivided 170 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 2: into two types, small used for garnishes and known as 171 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 2: asparagus tips, and large, which is prepared like that French asparagus. 172 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 2: Early asparagus can be found in France from February onwards 173 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 2: and is usually sold at high prices. Method of preparation 174 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 2: this is simple scrape or better still, peel the asparagus, 175 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:05,839 Speaker 2: wash and tie into medium sized bundles and cook in 176 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 2: a fairly full pan of boiling salted water. Allow one 177 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,719 Speaker 2: and a half teaspoons per liter or one in three 178 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 2: quarters pints generous quart. When it's cooked, drain the asparagus 179 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 2: thoroughly and arrange on a dish covered with a napkin, 180 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 2: or on a special asparagus dish which is equipped with 181 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 2: a flat strainer. The cooking period varies from eighteen to 182 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 2: twenty minutes, depending on the size and nature of the asparagus. 183 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 2: It should not be overcooked, as this renders it watery 184 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:28,479 Speaker 2: and tasteless. 185 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 3: A note. 186 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 2: At the end of the season, asparagus becomes a little 187 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 2: bitter and should be put into fresh water for a 188 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 2: short time. After it has been cooked, drain thoroughly. Hot 189 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 2: work cold asparagus is served with various sauces. When it 190 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 2: is to be served cold, it should be left under 191 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 2: a running tapped cool Generally speaking, allow for about six 192 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 2: hundred grams or one and a quarter pounds asparagus per 193 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:54,559 Speaker 2: person served with sauce, and then it goes on for 194 00:11:54,920 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 2: another page and a half about asparagus recipes. Well, I 195 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 2: kind of wanted to read that entire section, and I 196 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 2: know that probably listening to me read it was either 197 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,960 Speaker 2: soothing up your alley or incredibly annoying pick your pick 198 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:11,559 Speaker 2: your poison. 199 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:14,719 Speaker 3: But like, I just think it. 200 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 2: Really illustrates the breadth and depth and weirdness of the 201 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 2: information that Montagnier chose to put into this volume. Also, 202 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 2: is it just me or is a pound in a 203 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 2: quarter of asparagus as a serving bonkers? 204 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: I would agree, I think that's bonkers cool, Yes, checking 205 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:45,680 Speaker 1: I also love the and you know, not wrong, but 206 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: I love the like simply and it's all this stuff. 207 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: I would never do. 208 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 3: What. 209 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: I've never peeled and asparious my life, right. 210 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 2: And I'm not sure how much he's asking me to 211 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 2: peel and like, and I'm kind of going like, I 212 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 2: I just toss it in an olive oil and salt 213 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 2: and pepper, and I roast it until it's roasted. That's 214 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:14,080 Speaker 2: what I do to asparagus. I don't have a special 215 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 2: asparagus dish with drainage. Now I feel like I should. 216 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 2: I guess you should. 217 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: Definitely that's what we're really learning here, the ways we lack. 218 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's also the specificity of this is the 219 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: way you cook it. I think it's pretty. 220 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 2: Yeah right, I mean the different recipes have like different 221 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 2: things to say about it. 222 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:40,679 Speaker 3: But but wow, wow, sos just love it. I just 223 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 3: I love this book. 224 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 2: This is this is exactly why people love this book, 225 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 2: because it is it's just like that and it just 226 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 2: goes on like that about everything. 227 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,079 Speaker 3: I'm like, all right, yeah, get it. 228 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 1: Luis feels like it's got a personality. 229 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh absolutely, kind. 230 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:05,559 Speaker 1: Of a strange one. But you're like, in dear, but well, 231 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 1: what about the nutrition. 232 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:14,559 Speaker 3: Definitely donate this book, certainly, not in one sitting, definitely not. 233 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: Definitely not. Well, we do have some numbers for you, 234 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: we do. 235 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 2: Okay, so this varies from addition to edition, but you 236 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 2: could expect approximately four thousand articles and two thousand, five 237 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 2: hundred recipes per volume. Illustrations and photos vary the most, 238 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 2: perhaps as expected, from like a thousand to seventeen hundred 239 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 2: or so. 240 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 3: And it does have I didn't mention. 241 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 2: Earlier really beautiful detailed drawings and black and white plates 242 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 2: like photographs, and then in the newer edition's color color 243 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 2: insert pages and oh they're gorgeous. They're gorgeous, and a 244 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 2: lot of them are for very see like like karem 245 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 2: or Escoffier style preparations of things, and I'm like, oh, man, 246 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 2: I would never make that. 247 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: That's so cool. It's nice to look at it. 248 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I did weigh the addition that I own, 249 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 2: it weighs a solid five pounds at least. 250 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 3: I don't know if my scale actually works, and I 251 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 3: think that that's. 252 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:25,479 Speaker 2: On the light side for these buddies. 253 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: I have to say, when you were doing your reading, 254 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 1: I was like, wow, one rip, there you go. 255 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, uh huh. 256 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 2: Absolutely, As I was trying to like awkwardly like get 257 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 2: it near the microphone anyway, I could not, for the 258 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 2: life of me find info on like how many copies 259 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 2: have been printed over the course of this book's history. 260 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 2: The best that I can do that is that as 261 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 2: of two thousand and nine, over thirty five thousand copies 262 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 2: had been sold in the United Kingdom. So I don't 263 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 2: know what that means on a large scale. 264 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,479 Speaker 1: It's interesting I wonder if because there's so many additions 265 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: and stuff. 266 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, or maybe maybe it was this information that I 267 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 2: that I was having trouble accessing on the LaRue publisher's website. 268 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: Or I don't know, you know, Yeah, well it does 269 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 1: have a lot of fans, whatever the case. And uh, 270 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 1: it has a long history, fascinating history. I was not anticipating, yeah, 271 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: me neither as to how it got there. 272 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 3: I didn't know any of those. This was a great ride. 273 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 2: So yeah, we are going to get into all of 274 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 2: that as soon as we get back from a quick 275 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 2: break forward from our sponsors. 276 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: And we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes, thank you. Okay, So, 277 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: if you remember our French Cuisine episode, French cuisine has 278 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: long made a name for itself when it comes to 279 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:05,439 Speaker 1: things like innovation, technique, and fine dining. And this happened 280 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 1: through a lot of ways, including refining of techniques, the 281 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: mother sauces, refining of restaurant cooking practices and menus, all 282 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: kinds of things. By the nineteenth century, we see their 283 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 1: eyes of celebrity chefs like Antonin Kherim and Auguste Scoffier, 284 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: people who wielded this incredible influence and shaped so much 285 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:30,399 Speaker 1: of our restaurant culture and our cooking techniques to this day, 286 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 1: a lot of things are French inspired cuisine or a 287 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 1: fusion with French cuisine and techniques, which has its pros 288 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: and cons. 289 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of the time when you have a 290 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 2: fancy restaurant, you're vaguely required to include some of that. 291 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 2: And yes, that's a different episode, though tiny bit more detail. Right, Like, 292 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 2: the reasons why French cuisine gained the sort of reach 293 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 2: are like many socio political reasons, plus a few really 294 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 2: timely cookbook authors, plus the French Revolution because that ended 295 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 2: the guild system that had previously restricted how culinary industry 296 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,919 Speaker 2: workers could work, and also shut down some of the 297 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 2: wealthy households that had employed those workers, and furthermore opened 298 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 2: up the economy for the creation of restaurants by those workers. 299 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:30,360 Speaker 1: However, it wasn't always smooth sailing, and over time arguments 300 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: and disagreements broke out in the community of French cuisine professionals, 301 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: especially between chefs and food writers and journalists. 302 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, and to specify, because there is some overlap in 303 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 2: that Venn diagram, this was a matter of people who 304 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:49,159 Speaker 2: worked in kitchens versus people who wrote about food, but 305 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 2: who had no professional experience, who nonetheless had a lot 306 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 2: of popular influence over the culinary industry. It was cooks 307 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 2: versus this non professional class that often called themselves gastronomes. 308 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: Rights and all of this is a bit complicated, but 309 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 1: very basically due to a lot of things around unions 310 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:18,399 Speaker 1: and workers' rights, ideas around what constitutes a chef, the 311 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: growing solidification of French cuisine and therefore growing competitiveness, and 312 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:30,120 Speaker 1: the increased culinary publications in France, there were some divides 313 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 1: that made themselves evident, and one of these factions was 314 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 1: led by Prosper Montagnier, who was a chef and culinary 315 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 1: writer right so. 316 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 2: Montaigner was born in eighteen sixty five out in Carcasson 317 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 2: in southwest France. His father ran hotels and basically forced 318 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 2: him to apprentice as a cook at one in Toulouse. 319 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 2: Prosper wanted to go into art and architecture, but he 320 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 2: had a real talent for cooking and wound up working 321 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 2: with some of the greats in a bunch of the 322 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 2: large fancy elk cuisine kitchens of the day in France 323 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 2: and Monte Carlo and Italy. He published his first book 324 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 2: in nineteen hundred, and by nineteen oh seven had basically 325 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 2: dropped his career as a chef to pursue his interest 326 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 2: in culinary writing. Rumor has it that he helped his 327 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 2: friend Ascoffier with Scaffee's nineteen oh three book Le Guide, 328 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 2: Colinaier and Yeah. Montaigner wrote columns on cooking and astronomy 329 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 2: for like a bunch of magazines and newspapers. He wrote 330 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 2: a few cookbooks angled towards niche topics like military cooking, 331 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 2: healthy cooking, meatless cooking, home cooking, and did a lot 332 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 2: of teaching and lecturing and demonstrations around France. During World 333 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 2: War One, he helped feed the French army and set 334 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 2: up the cooking school within the French military. He would 335 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:54,680 Speaker 2: be named a Knight in the Legion of Honor for 336 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 2: his culinary work in nineteen twenty two. 337 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 1: He did decide to start his own stunt in Paris 338 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:04,440 Speaker 1: in nineteen twenty and it was a popular place for 339 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: the top food writers, chefs, politicians and artists of the time. 340 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:12,920 Speaker 2: It was called simply no reference to the simply from 341 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 2: earlier Montagne, triteur trieteur being a word that translates directly 342 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 2: as caterer, but I understand it had a more casual connotation, 343 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 2: more like a guy who serves food. So so pretty 344 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 2: cheeky restaurant name there. 345 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 1: Yes, despite his popularity, though his restaurant closed after about 346 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 1: a decade of operation due to finance. 347 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was so well known there that there was 348 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 2: a write up about its closure in the Chicago Sunday 349 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 2: Tribune that said, the whole gastronomic world of the French 350 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 2: capital received a severe blow to the stomach. 351 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:53,640 Speaker 1: Ooh yeah, yeah, so yeah. 352 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 2: Montagner retired to writing and speaking after that restaurant closure, 353 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 2: and part of his right was this kind of heated 354 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 2: argument that he was in with gastronomes about what good 355 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:13,879 Speaker 2: food is or about what French cuisine is. 356 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: Yes, and his ideas are a bit hard to pin 357 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,199 Speaker 1: down for me from the time and place that I 358 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,640 Speaker 1: am in with the information in English that I have, 359 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: but I would say he was very passionate about Parisian cuisine. 360 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 1: He worked very hard to be recognized and therefore felt 361 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: that everyone else should meet his very specific standards as 362 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: well as well as his specific ideas about what constituted 363 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 1: French cuisine. And this meant that those in his camp 364 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,160 Speaker 1: may have looked down on regional cuisine and women chefs, 365 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 1: which was common at the time. 366 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, for the first half of that there was this 367 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 2: idea among the chefs cooking it that Parisian cuisine was 368 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 2: the most struck shared and developed and refined, and that 369 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 2: therefore everything else was like kind of just food, Like 370 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 2: it can be great, it should be enjoyed, but it's. 371 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 3: Different from what we're doing. 372 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: You know. 373 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:17,119 Speaker 2: About the second half during this era, you know, women 374 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 2: were just entering the workforce really, and there was pushback 375 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:25,159 Speaker 2: against that from dude workers, you know, partially because of 376 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:29,439 Speaker 2: sexism and partially because of financial competition. I don't know 377 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 2: that Montaigne in particular had a problem with women in 378 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 2: the workforce. One of his teaching stints was at a 379 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 2: school for women in the hotel end of the service industry, 380 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 2: which again is where like a lot of fancy cooking 381 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 2: was happening at the time. But you know, I wasn't there. 382 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,919 Speaker 2: I can't say for sure, for absolutely sure. One of 383 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 2: his close collaborators, Gilbert, wrote some really sexist articles about ladies, 384 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 2: So there we are. 385 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, hard to say. Also, this could be me projecting 386 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:04,919 Speaker 1: it probably is me projecting, but Montaignier seemed to be 387 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: fueled in part by Spike or I guess like a 388 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: more positive or not. That depends on how you look 389 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: at it. Take on it was that he was extremely 390 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:23,160 Speaker 1: competitive and was determined that his take on French cuisine 391 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: would be the dominant one. 392 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 3: Okay. 393 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 2: Heading up the other side of this debate was. 394 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: The Prince of Gastronomes, Maurice Edmondsayad, a pen named Kurnanski 395 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 1: or Cure as he often went by. He was a 396 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: prolific and well known food journalist who from nineteen twenty 397 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 1: one to nineteen twenty eight published this massive work, The 398 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 1: Franz Gastronomique Guide to Culinary Wonders and Good French Ends 399 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:59,160 Speaker 1: after traveling around and visiting restaurants and ends across the country. 400 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, sort of like a proto Michelin Guide. 401 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: Yes, But Montaigner and his ilk were not happy about 402 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: this because it went against what they believed in and 403 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,720 Speaker 1: was also during a time of change that was really 404 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: impacting the restaurant industry increased access to cars, increased traveling. 405 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,919 Speaker 1: At least in part because of that, Kurinovsky's work was 406 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: hugely successful and it majorly catapulted his career. 407 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, he was really widely published and read. He was 408 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 2: on the radio, he was a big deal. And I 409 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 2: think the issue here was that these professional chefs were right. 410 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 2: They were working to make a respectable industry for themselves, 411 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 2: and they felt like it was being diluted by these 412 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 2: writers who did not understand what it's like to cook professionally, 413 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:53,400 Speaker 2: or even really anything about like the history of French cuisine, 414 00:25:53,600 --> 00:26:00,640 Speaker 2: and who were diverting the public's interest and business. They 415 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 2: were enthusiastic, but the chef's argument was that they were ignorant, right, And. 416 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,439 Speaker 1: This all came to a head in October of nineteen 417 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,879 Speaker 1: twenty eight after an illustration was published depicting Kirnatsky in 418 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:19,399 Speaker 1: a chef's outfit in a respected publication, and Montaignier wrote, 419 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,119 Speaker 1: and these are translations, so please correct me if I'm off. 420 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 1: We must get rid of these false fathers of the table, 421 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: who understand nothing about eating or drinking, and who I 422 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 1: am convinced have no other goal than to create, if 423 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:40,640 Speaker 1: I may say so, advertising gastronomy. Oh I know, it 424 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 1: gets so juicy, Oh my gosh. And then quote it 425 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 1: is your duty, Prince to instruct the high dignitaries of 426 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 1: your court, as well as the members of your academy 427 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: in gastronomy. This I can tell you because I have 428 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 1: heard some of them hold forth over a dish, and 429 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,920 Speaker 1: I assure you that I have never heard such nonsense uttered. 430 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,440 Speaker 1: This would be of no importance if such remarks did 431 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: not come out of private life. But your subjects do 432 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,919 Speaker 1: not stop there. They want to make their ideas on 433 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 1: gluttony known to the general public, and to do this 434 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,360 Speaker 1: write long articles, which I have the duty to tell 435 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 1: you are well designed to ridicule French cuisine. Who I mean, 436 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 1: I can feel the burn from here. 437 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's walm. 438 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:48,440 Speaker 1: That is wow. So it was heated. It was heated, 439 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 1: and it is in this atmosphere. The Rufse Gastronomique was 440 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:59,880 Speaker 1: first published in nineteen thirty eight, curated by Chef Mont 441 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:05,880 Speaker 1: with doctor Gotstalk as the scientific collaborator. As you said, Lauren, 442 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 1: so yeah, Matigne kind of took matters into his own hands. 443 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,399 Speaker 1: And yes, it was massive and featured not only a 444 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:21,439 Speaker 1: putha of recipes, biographies, methods, tools, histories, histories of eating 445 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 1: of restaurants. It also featured cooking terms overviews of basic 446 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:32,640 Speaker 1: ingredients and advice on storing them. It was just like no, this, yeah, 447 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:33,199 Speaker 1: this is it. 448 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. 449 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,719 Speaker 2: And like, knowing the history of this heated debate, it 450 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 2: really feels like this encyclopedia was a huge well, actually 451 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 2: in the face of people who don't know what they're 452 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 2: talking about, culinarily speaking like like oh, hey, you love 453 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 2: blah blanc, but you don't know how it's made. You know, 454 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 2: you know what boo I got you. 455 00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 3: You can look that up right here. You're welcome. 456 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: It's like, really, look at all of this experience and knowledge. 457 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 2: You know, I know, I know that you're like struggling 458 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 2: with some of these technical definitions. So I just laid 459 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 2: it up for you. I just laid it out for you. 460 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 2: Glad to help, yes, to be fair. Montagnier also clearly 461 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 2: like loved the heck out of all of this subject matter, 462 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 2: and I think he really wanted to like document some 463 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,720 Speaker 2: of this stuff that was really only available as like 464 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 2: oral history or industry information, and that he wanted to 465 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 2: share it. I think he started writing The Tone in 466 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 2: nineteen thirty two or thereabouts. He worked with the publisher 467 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 2: Additional l Rouse to put it out the company that 468 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 2: company had been formed back in the eighteen fifties by 469 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 2: one Pierre Larousse, a linguist who became known for publishing 470 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 2: like broad and detailed and often beautifully illustrated reference works. 471 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: I would also say in again, and this is just 472 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 1: coming from me, since it was such a time of 473 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 1: like shift and change, I get to understand the desire 474 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 1: to get this all written down or to have like 475 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 1: a reference work in the face of tumultuous time. So 476 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,719 Speaker 1: what might have felt very much like everything's changing, So 477 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: it makes sense. The work notably had a preface by 478 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 1: Philia Gilbert Lauren mentioned earlier, who had previously been one 479 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: of the other chefs in this whole debate, but he 480 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 1: was more team Cure at this point. I'm telling you 481 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: there was drama. We had to pull back because it's 482 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 1: so fascinating and we had to stick to the subject. 483 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 3: But yeah, a little bit of drama. There was a really. 484 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 2: Great piece written in French about all of this media drama, 485 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 2: and it was terrific. 486 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 1: It was it was A Scoffier also contributed a preface. 487 00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 3: Yeah. 488 00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 2: What had happened with the prefaces is that A Scoffier 489 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 2: wrote one shortly before his death in nineteen thirty five, 490 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 2: having seen like a good chunk of the work in progress, 491 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 2: but probably very little of the actual finished product. And 492 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 2: because he talks about that in his preface, Gilbert wrote 493 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 2: an addition to sort of like round the whole thing out. 494 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: Yes, And this book became an invaluable resource for those 495 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 1: looking to make the cut in traditional Western fine dining. 496 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 1: It was hugely influential. It has become a much loved 497 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 1: and referenced cookbook. 498 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 2: Or maybe not cookbook but reference work. Yes sure, totally 499 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 2: aced reference work. 500 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 3: Yes yes. 501 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 2: Mondaignier died in nineteen forty eight. 502 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: New editions were published in nineteen sixty, nineteen sixty seven, 503 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:54,040 Speaker 1: and nineteen eighty four under Robert J. Cortin, a food 504 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 1: writer and journalist, and this was seen by some as 505 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 1: the final blow in the Montaigne versus Cure debate. 506 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 2: Right because Courtin was apparently very much of the Cure 507 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 2: school of thought, like he wrote about taking back the 508 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 2: word gastronome. 509 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 3: He was that kind of guy. 510 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 2: So it was like, oh, oh, Cure won that one, 511 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:16,440 Speaker 2: Sorry about it. 512 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:16,960 Speaker 3: Montagner. 513 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,720 Speaker 2: At any rate, he was also in his thirties during 514 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 2: German occupation of France. During World War Two, a Nazi 515 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 2: sympathizer and collaborator. Yeah, he got sent into prison about 516 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 2: that after the war, which is great. But then after 517 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 2: he was released basically got away with like a successful 518 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 2: multi decade food writing career without anyone really knowing anything 519 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 2: about his past, which is less great. A lot of 520 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:46,239 Speaker 2: this came out in an obituary about him when he 521 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 2: died in nineteen ninety eight, So an obituary this is 522 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 2: also a lot of drama. Yes, wow, And I'm like, 523 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 2: whoa screw that guy? 524 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, I went directly. 525 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 2: He like just pivoted from being like, well, I'm going 526 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 2: to write all these really antisemitic things. 527 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 3: To uh, yeah, food. 528 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 2: I guess that's not going to get me sent to 529 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 2: prison again. 530 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 3: Right cool? 531 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 2: Anyway again, rabbit holes, y'all? 532 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 3: Anyway? Uh okay. 533 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 2: The nineteen sixty revision, called Nouveaux disgastronomik uh brought in 534 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 2: new material about mid century cooking technologies like deep freezing 535 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:35,120 Speaker 2: and freeze drying, also contemporary understandings of dietary science, some 536 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 2: more information on like French and other wines, what and 537 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 2: like various food and wine associations that had come up 538 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 2: since the you know, nineteen thirties. 539 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 3: The nineteen eighty four revision was another big one, with. 540 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:53,960 Speaker 2: New entries reflecting nouvelle cuisine and like various new and 541 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:59,560 Speaker 2: non French things like the banana split, kiwis, spring rolls, 542 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 2: food additives, microwave ovens. 543 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 3: Whoa Yeah. 544 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 2: The first edition in English was published in nineteen sixty one. 545 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 2: It was an adaptation of the original from thirty eight. 546 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,440 Speaker 2: Apparently it was the work of like twenty culinary experts 547 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:22,799 Speaker 2: over three years to wrangle the translation. These English translations 548 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,279 Speaker 2: have also gone through edits for clarity for like American 549 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:33,319 Speaker 2: versus British English readers. Yeah, we got a version of 550 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:37,879 Speaker 2: the nineteen sixty fourteen revision by nineteen seventy seven. That's 551 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,759 Speaker 2: the one I inherited from my dad. The eighty four 552 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,440 Speaker 2: translation came through a bit quicker landing in English just 553 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,320 Speaker 2: four years after it was published, motivated by the fiftieth 554 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,400 Speaker 2: anniversary of the original publication. 555 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:54,479 Speaker 1: And in nineteen ninety six, renowned chef Joel rubouchonp kicked 556 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 1: off something of a renaissance for Gashonomik. At the time, 557 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 1: Rubuchamp was the chair of a committee for Larousse, and 558 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 1: he signed on to take over the curatorship of Larousse. 559 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:09,280 Speaker 1: From there, the encyclopedias opened up to become more international. 560 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, that one was translated into English by two thousand 561 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 2: and one, and Robachon was perhaps a more Montaignier appropriate. 562 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:23,319 Speaker 3: Choice for curator. He was right. He was a chef. 563 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,440 Speaker 2: Like his first his first restaurant got three Michelin stars 564 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:28,919 Speaker 2: within like three years. Like he was a very chef 565 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 2: ley chef. 566 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:36,839 Speaker 1: So yeah, chevley chef. The two thousand and seven edition 567 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 1: was released under the name Grand Larousse Gastronomique from Robachon 568 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:46,320 Speaker 1: and his committee, several members at the time were powerhouses 569 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 1: of French cuisine. 570 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,799 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah, really illustrious committee. We got that 571 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 2: one in two thousand and nine. It had an additional 572 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:57,319 Speaker 2: eighty five biographies of chefs, nine hundred new photographs, a 573 00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:01,319 Speaker 2: total of three eight hundred recipes, and apparently they mucked 574 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 2: about a bit with the way that entries were organized. 575 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,920 Speaker 2: I don't know the most recent addition only in French 576 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:12,480 Speaker 2: thus far, I think is from twenty seventeen. Rubbichem passed 577 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:14,960 Speaker 2: away in twenty eighteen, so I'm not positive of his 578 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 2: total influence on that one. But yeah, the committee committee 579 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:23,719 Speaker 2: still stands. And you know, Montagnier has not been as 580 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 2: remembered as some of his like rock star contemporaries, but 581 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 2: he's not forgotten small things like in twenty fourteen, Carcassone 582 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:37,960 Speaker 2: named their fresh market after him. There are cooking prizes 583 00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:41,600 Speaker 2: and gastronomy clubs named after him. After he passed. A 584 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:45,920 Speaker 2: group of friends, friends, perhaps in quotation marks Yell decide 585 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:51,840 Speaker 2: founded this organization for culinary professionals and passionate amateurs that 586 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 2: they named after him. The idea is that the gastronomes, 587 00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,920 Speaker 2: if you will, get to participate in like educational events 588 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 2: and promote castronomy to the public, while the professionals benefit 589 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 2: from the networking and the publicity. Yeah and yeah, that's 590 00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 2: kind of the history of the Luska Soronomique so far. 591 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,960 Speaker 2: I'd like to leave y'all though, with the opening of 592 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,400 Speaker 2: the preface from Escolfaier to bring it full circle. 593 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, he wrote. 594 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 2: The history of the table of a nation is a 595 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:34,799 Speaker 2: reflection of the civilization of that nation, to show the 596 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,360 Speaker 2: changes in the order and serving of meals from century 597 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:42,200 Speaker 2: to century, To describe and comment on the progress a 598 00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 2: French cuisine, is to paint a picture of the many 599 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:48,440 Speaker 2: stages through which a nation has evolved since the distant 600 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,840 Speaker 2: times when as a weak tribe, men lived in dark caves, 601 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:55,320 Speaker 2: eating wild roots, raw fish, and the still pulsating flesh 602 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:56,920 Speaker 2: of animals killed with the spear. 603 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:01,720 Speaker 1: That's more intense. 604 00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:05,040 Speaker 2: Gets intense there, Yeah, yeah, I thought, right, Yeah, it 605 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 2: starts off real soft. 606 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:10,279 Speaker 1: But wow, I. 607 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:14,799 Speaker 2: Like it though, right, yeah, and it is right like, 608 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 2: that's that's the whole reason why all of this is cool. 609 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:18,600 Speaker 3: That's why we do the show. 610 00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:23,320 Speaker 1: Heck, you know, yeah, I don't know if Montaignier would 611 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:23,640 Speaker 1: like us. 612 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,000 Speaker 3: No, probably not, well, probably not. 613 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 2: Hey, we try to not be ignorant. 614 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:31,960 Speaker 3: We try to read up on stuff. 615 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 1: Okay, we try very hard, and we. 616 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:40,960 Speaker 2: Do not presume to know more than chefs or anyone really. 617 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:48,640 Speaker 1: Absolutely not, absolutely not. Well, this was a really fun, interesting, 618 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:52,800 Speaker 1: strange one. As we've said, we were kind of limited 619 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,440 Speaker 1: to what we could find in English or could translate 620 00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,600 Speaker 1: to English. So if anybody has any resources more information 621 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:01,600 Speaker 1: about this, we would love that. And if you have 622 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:08,640 Speaker 1: a copy, oh, we love seeing the reference books, the 623 00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:10,560 Speaker 1: cookbooks that you all. 624 00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:14,200 Speaker 2: Have, If you have a favorite passage, if you have 625 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:16,719 Speaker 2: a story about it, Yeah, we would love We would 626 00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:17,399 Speaker 2: love to hear it. 627 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,399 Speaker 1: Yes, but I think that's what we have to say 628 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:23,680 Speaker 1: about Laruese gastronomik for now. 629 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,239 Speaker 2: Yes, we do already have some listener mail for you, though, 630 00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:28,600 Speaker 2: and we are going to get into that as soon 631 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:30,239 Speaker 2: as we get back from one more quick break for 632 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:31,360 Speaker 2: a word from our sponsors. 633 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,640 Speaker 1: And we're back. Thank you, sponsors, Yes, thank you, And 634 00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:53,440 Speaker 1: we're back with the smooth big book. Oh big book 635 00:39:56,280 --> 00:40:04,919 Speaker 1: made me a little nervous to see it, to be honest. Yep, yep, yep, 636 00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:11,880 Speaker 1: Aaron wrote. Last summer, I listened to the semi fictional 637 00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:14,719 Speaker 1: Foods Little House episode and immediately knew I had to 638 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,480 Speaker 1: tell you about the cookbook sitting on my bookshelf with 639 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:21,320 Speaker 1: dog eared pages marking the recipes I have made, including 640 00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:25,840 Speaker 1: molasses on snow candy. Every time snow was in the forecast, 641 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,799 Speaker 1: which is not all that often in Virginia, I made 642 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:32,359 Speaker 1: sure we had molasses on hand to make Laura's jawbreaking 643 00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:38,120 Speaker 1: dental dental filling pulling treat. I don't think I ever 644 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,200 Speaker 1: ate more than one piece, and it was always a mess, 645 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:43,440 Speaker 1: but a tradition I have now passed down on to 646 00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:48,760 Speaker 1: my kids. Molasses aside my strongest association with the Little 647 00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:52,720 Speaker 1: House series is Laura's wedding cake, which I literally begged 648 00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,719 Speaker 1: my mom to help me make for my twelfth birthday 649 00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:59,960 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety six. The introduction to the recipe set, 650 00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,279 Speaker 1: remember that this cake comes from the days before egg 651 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,400 Speaker 1: beaters and cake flour. We ask that you beat the 652 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,600 Speaker 1: whites by hand, not only to know what Laura felt, 653 00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:13,000 Speaker 1: but because the resulting texture will be different from that 654 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:17,920 Speaker 1: of machine whipped whites. The recipe then instructs in regard 655 00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,879 Speaker 1: to blending the sugar into the butter, quote, this will 656 00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:24,600 Speaker 1: be hard work, best done at arm's length or in 657 00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:28,720 Speaker 1: the lap. And later on beating the egg whites. Quote, 658 00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:30,839 Speaker 1: this will take about ten minutes. 659 00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:33,360 Speaker 3: Yep, ten minutes. 660 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:34,200 Speaker 1: That's it. Yep. 661 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,080 Speaker 2: Oh my poor mom and I followed the recipe to 662 00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:42,439 Speaker 2: a tea. We both mixed that damn cake batter until 663 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,880 Speaker 2: our arms about fell off, but I was happy to 664 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,239 Speaker 2: have felt the way Laura did in the books, with 665 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:53,439 Speaker 2: a real pioneer experience. Finally, after Happy Birthday was sung, 666 00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:56,160 Speaker 2: it was time to reap the reward of all that 667 00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:59,000 Speaker 2: hard work, and I was crushed. 668 00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:06,320 Speaker 1: The cake was truly awful, like a hard bland rock. 669 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:11,120 Speaker 1: My mom reminded me that long ago, sugar ratios and 670 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:14,160 Speaker 1: cakes were not what they are nowadays, and I don't 671 00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:16,919 Speaker 1: know that our weak modern arms were up to the 672 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:22,120 Speaker 1: whipping task either. I don't think anyone finished even a 673 00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:27,000 Speaker 1: single slice. I knew there was surely photographic evidence of 674 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:29,640 Speaker 1: this cake, and I couldn't possibly write this email to 675 00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:33,920 Speaker 1: you without it. Thus it took me an entire year 676 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:37,920 Speaker 1: to organize decades of family photos to find it, attached 677 00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:40,480 Speaker 1: to a picture of me smiling with the offending cake 678 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:45,920 Speaker 1: moments before heartbreak was realized. I have also included the 679 00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:49,880 Speaker 1: recipe from the cookbook. Should you feel masochistic enough to 680 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:58,200 Speaker 1: try it yourself, Oh dear, oh oh wow. 681 00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:01,880 Speaker 2: See this right here is why I love and hate 682 00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:08,440 Speaker 2: cooking and like equal measure. Yes, it just it stresses 683 00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,120 Speaker 2: me out because I'm like, is this actually gonna work? 684 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:13,680 Speaker 2: Am I gonna be left with anything vaguely edible at 685 00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:15,799 Speaker 2: the end of this hard labor. 686 00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:21,279 Speaker 1: Especially after there's something like a birthday cake where it's 687 00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:24,880 Speaker 1: like the presentation you can't have a piece missing, so 688 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:29,319 Speaker 1: you can't try it right, So the anticipation of like 689 00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:36,000 Speaker 1: what if it's terrible? Yeah, can be overwhelming, and then 690 00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:38,440 Speaker 1: if it is terrible and yeah, no one can eat 691 00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:38,920 Speaker 1: a slice. 692 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,160 Speaker 2: I mean at that point that's kind of funny. I 693 00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:44,799 Speaker 2: hope I know that it was funny sooner than later. 694 00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:49,759 Speaker 1: Agreed. Agreed. And I also have to say, like now, 695 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:53,800 Speaker 1: as an adult, unless I was doing a specific project, 696 00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:56,920 Speaker 1: I would never do this, But as a kid, I can. 697 00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,520 Speaker 1: I can see the allure of like I'm gonna do 698 00:43:59,640 --> 00:43:59,960 Speaker 1: it like. 699 00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:01,759 Speaker 3: Waura, you're your own. 700 00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:07,560 Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, I would have been so into that at 701 00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:08,400 Speaker 2: the age of twelve. 702 00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:13,239 Speaker 1: Yes, me too, so I it doesn't sound like you do, 703 00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:16,120 Speaker 1: but I hope you don't blame yourself. I'm glad it 704 00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:20,600 Speaker 1: sounds like you've moved on from the heartbreak. Thanks for 705 00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:23,799 Speaker 1: finding the picture and sending their rest. 706 00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:27,160 Speaker 3: We love it. 707 00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:34,719 Speaker 2: Oh goodness, Rose wrote, it's been ages. Loving the show 708 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:36,440 Speaker 2: always a bright spot in my busy day, and I 709 00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:40,279 Speaker 2: always try to slow down and savor it. Ah, that's 710 00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:43,000 Speaker 2: for you, Annie. I had to stop and write in 711 00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:46,000 Speaker 2: when you brought up NOTT. Though I've traveled to and 712 00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:48,360 Speaker 2: lived in Japan frequently for the past twenty four years, 713 00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,560 Speaker 2: like many other foreigners, I was quickly introduced at NATO 714 00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:54,600 Speaker 2: and I was not a fan. I didn't mind the taste, 715 00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:59,160 Speaker 2: but the slimy texture, which the Japanese fondly called nibba neba, 716 00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:03,400 Speaker 2: was downright on palatable to me. Neba neaba foods also 717 00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:07,840 Speaker 2: include raw okra, raw eggs, mozuku, seaweed, and grated mountain 718 00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:12,560 Speaker 2: yam called yamino are other popular naba neba foods and 719 00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,399 Speaker 2: can often be layered on top of each other as 720 00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:20,520 Speaker 2: a nibaeba parfe for the ultimate slime experience. Fast forward 721 00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:23,520 Speaker 2: to twenty eleven and I had become an elementary ESL 722 00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:27,160 Speaker 2: teacher for a school district in Ichi Prefecture. Part of 723 00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:29,759 Speaker 2: my duties every day was to have school lunch with 724 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,399 Speaker 2: one of my classes. The most popular lunch by far 725 00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:35,879 Speaker 2: was the one pictured below. It consisted of a bowl 726 00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,520 Speaker 2: of rice, a packet of nor sheets, soup of the day. 727 00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,799 Speaker 2: This one was a porcacho miso soup, So damn good 728 00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:44,600 Speaker 2: veg of the day. This happens to be sauted cabbage, 729 00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:48,279 Speaker 2: fried tofu and baby tiny fish and a big ol'd 730 00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:50,680 Speaker 2: PLoP of nut though with teeny tiny bits of white 731 00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:55,760 Speaker 2: American cheese cut up into it, plus milk. Please note 732 00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:59,560 Speaker 2: that this is the smallest amount of Nato I was 733 00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:04,120 Speaker 2: permitted to get. Meanwhile, the children would lose their damn 734 00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:06,479 Speaker 2: minds over this lunch and fight to see who would 735 00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:09,680 Speaker 2: get the largest piles of nato and cheese, often going 736 00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:12,600 Speaker 2: back for seconds and thirds, and it was the only 737 00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:16,080 Speaker 2: meal the kids would consistently demolish. Now, it would be 738 00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:18,440 Speaker 2: just fine if this meal showed up once a month 739 00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:21,520 Speaker 2: or so here and there at a school. The thing 740 00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:23,799 Speaker 2: is I was a rotating teacher. I visited the same 741 00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:27,440 Speaker 2: five schools every week, and somehow I ended up with 742 00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:30,520 Speaker 2: three to four days of the same Nato lunch one 743 00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:36,080 Speaker 2: week every month. As eating lunch was an official part 744 00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:39,080 Speaker 2: of my job, I had to eat it. Over time, 745 00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:43,040 Speaker 2: I kind of got into it. It's typically made little 746 00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:46,040 Speaker 2: hand rolls, but I tended to pile the nato on 747 00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:48,319 Speaker 2: the rice, then crush and sprinkle the ore on top. 748 00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:52,160 Speaker 2: Fast forward to modern times. I still eat Nato my 749 00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:54,920 Speaker 2: whole life. I've had gallbladder issues. By no means am 750 00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:57,080 Speaker 2: I a doctor or am I giving medical advice. But 751 00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,319 Speaker 2: I found when my gallbladder acts up, that the sliminess 752 00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:03,040 Speaker 2: of foods like nat though has a soothing effect. I 753 00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:05,600 Speaker 2: now eat not so frequently for the taste and because 754 00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,640 Speaker 2: it makes me feel good. Below in the second photo 755 00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:13,399 Speaker 2: is a typical breakfast or light lunch consisting of bread 756 00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:16,080 Speaker 2: da jore. Typically dark rye or pumper nickel goes well 757 00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:19,319 Speaker 2: with the funky na though flavors cream cheese. The rich 758 00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:21,919 Speaker 2: taniness is a good counterbalance to the earthy not though, 759 00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:25,960 Speaker 2: and the rye or pumper nickel. Cucumber crunchy and fresh 760 00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:29,920 Speaker 2: provide some moisture to the dry bread. Spicy fricake for 761 00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:35,560 Speaker 2: extra texture and flavor, and then green onion just love them. Finally, 762 00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,200 Speaker 2: I wanted to say I've never heard or seen anyone 763 00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:41,080 Speaker 2: warm up not though before eating it. It is often 764 00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:44,239 Speaker 2: sold frozen and needs to be thawed before using. I 765 00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:48,400 Speaker 2: could see microwaving it if it was frozen. That is 766 00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:54,960 Speaker 2: probably what I was talking about. Apologies if I misspoke 767 00:47:55,239 --> 00:48:00,319 Speaker 2: on that one. Yeah, yeah, I'm still looking out and 768 00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:01,480 Speaker 2: I have not had any look. 769 00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:06,520 Speaker 1: But I have to say this all sounds really good to. 770 00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:09,160 Speaker 3: It does. 771 00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:12,960 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, all of that sounds really right, especially your 772 00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:15,440 Speaker 2: like modern take on like a breakfast or light lunch 773 00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:19,040 Speaker 2: there that although both of them sound I've never had 774 00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:23,600 Speaker 2: nato served with cheese and now I'm fascinated by this idea. 775 00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:29,000 Speaker 1: Yes, oh well, Lauren, we have quite the list of 776 00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:34,760 Speaker 1: male coming up for you. I'm excited to see it, 777 00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:37,680 Speaker 1: all right, Yeah, I will. 778 00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:40,280 Speaker 2: Say, Annie, I'm pretty sure that it's a menu item 779 00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:44,880 Speaker 2: at Roussan's, which is a local Atlanta Japanese weird place. 780 00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:48,080 Speaker 2: So I'm pretty sure you can get it from there. 781 00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:49,040 Speaker 3: I could, I could. 782 00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:54,120 Speaker 2: I might be wrong, that's all right, I'll check into Okay, Yeah, 783 00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:56,120 Speaker 2: the next time that I come across it, I will 784 00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:57,400 Speaker 2: definitely tell. 785 00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:01,080 Speaker 1: You, yes, please. Do I have to say that the 786 00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:09,920 Speaker 1: white American cheese, right, that's what gets me, the cheese, Okay, Okay. Also, 787 00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:15,719 Speaker 1: and this could just be me coming from my American perspective, 788 00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:17,560 Speaker 1: but that sounds way better than the lunches I was 789 00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:18,920 Speaker 1: getting my school. 790 00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:26,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, American school lunches are a particular type of pain. 791 00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:34,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, at least I can't say for everyone, but at 792 00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:40,000 Speaker 1: my school we weren't. That sounds much better than what 793 00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:43,840 Speaker 1: we were get. Yeah, and at least like there was 794 00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:50,400 Speaker 1: a vegetable that seems cool. That does seem really cool? Uh? Yeah, 795 00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:54,680 Speaker 1: we did do an episode on school lunches, right, did we? Well? Anyway, 796 00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:55,880 Speaker 1: we all. 797 00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:56,440 Speaker 3: Talked about it. 798 00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:59,120 Speaker 2: I think that, yeah, for sure we should do one 799 00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:02,480 Speaker 2: because that is fascinating and the in terms of the 800 00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:04,360 Speaker 2: United States mostly depressing topic. 801 00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:10,880 Speaker 1: But yes, but yeah, there was a way to skirt 802 00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:17,080 Speaker 1: around having a vegetable in a United States school. 803 00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:22,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks Reagan, let's go. Yeah, yep. 804 00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:26,360 Speaker 1: Anyway, but I do love how you also kind of 805 00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:31,680 Speaker 1: got cursed into this, always having it, and now you 806 00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:32,320 Speaker 1: like it. 807 00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:34,960 Speaker 3: It worked out, it worked out. 808 00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:42,560 Speaker 1: Well. Thank you so much to both of these listeners 809 00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:44,040 Speaker 1: for writing in. If you would like to try to 810 00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:46,880 Speaker 1: as you can or emails hello at saborpod dot com, 811 00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:47,759 Speaker 1: and we're also. 812 00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:48,200 Speaker 3: On social media. 813 00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:51,120 Speaker 2: You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at 814 00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:53,200 Speaker 2: saber pod and we do hope to hear from you. 815 00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:56,160 Speaker 2: Save is production of by Heart Radio. For more podcasts 816 00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:58,479 Speaker 2: to my heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app, 817 00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:01,400 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or where you listen to your favorite shows. 818 00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:04,319 Speaker 2: Thanks as always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and 819 00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:06,680 Speaker 2: Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope 820 00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:15,960 Speaker 2: that lots more good things are coming your way.