WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: The Lake Bodom Murders 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.240 Thinking Sideways is not supported by the tiny community of 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:05.960 highly intelligent creatures that live in the lent that has 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:08.640 built up in your dryer. Instead, it's supported by the 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:12.040 generous donations of our listeners on Patreon. Visit patreon dot 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:20.239 com slash thinking sideways to learn more and thanks Thinking Sideways. 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:30.720 I don't understand you never know stories of things. We 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:35.920 simply don't know the answer too. Well. Here there, welcome 0:00:35.920 --> 0:00:39.599 to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe, joined as 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:44.400 always by Devin and Steve. We're back. I know it's 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:47.520 seems like a long time, but it's only been a week, folks. 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:51.240 That's how much you love our episodes. Uh, this week 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:54.080 where I can continue our October a series of Thinking 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:59.240 Sideways Most wanted, meaning the mysteries that you people all 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:02.840 voted to have us talk about. So this is like 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:07.480 remember what four on the list? I think? So the 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:12.560 third runner up to third runner up in like beauty 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:14.399 pageant says, how do you do it? You've the first 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:16.520 runner up in the the first place, or a winner. 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:18.959 I just find it easier just to say one through five. 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:21.960 But okay, well last week was fourth runner up. So 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:26.960 well that's because you decided to call doing my way. 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:30.679 We screwed it up my way. Al right, back to 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:33.920 our mystery. Yeah, we're gonna be talking about an event 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:36.720 that took place in nineteen sixty had a place called 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:39.520 Lake Bottom in Finland. There was a little bit of 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:42.200 unpleasantness at this lake and we won't go into it 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:44.960 any further than that because it's scary and gross. End 0:01:45.000 --> 0:01:49.440 of episode. Yeah, thanks for listening. Yeah, thanks for voting 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:54.080 to All Right, so we're looking at We're gonna be 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:57.320 looking to the Lake Bottom murders, which is the greatest 0:01:57.360 --> 0:01:59.840 don stall of crime in the history of Finland. All 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:04.840 our story begins June four, nineteen sixty four. Teenagers set 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:08.520 up from the town of Espo, Finland, on their motorcyclist 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:11.360 to go into camping trip. Their destination was Lake Bottom, 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:13.040 which is just to the north of town, so they 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:15.679 didn't have to go too far. But it turns out 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:18.560 there camping there it just wasn't a good idea at all. Well, 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:20.280 I mean it usually it was, wasn't it kind of 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:24.680 like a local teen hangout. Actually teenagers did the party. Yeah, 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:26.519 I think it actually still is a popular place and 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:29.720 you know, sweating fishing, you know, camping, drinking a little booze. 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:32.240 Yeah yeah, so yeah, it's so people have not been 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:35.359 to Turred. I guess there's still there and hanging out. Yeah. Yeah. 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:38.720 The four teenagers in that we're talking about, we're finished, 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:41.440 of course, which means that they have un pronounceable names. 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:45.360 So what are we going to him instead? Yeah? I 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:48.480 know I'm going to call him Larry, Fred, Giselle, and Trudy. 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:55.240 Right close enough? All right, I'm probably gonna miss pronounced 0:02:55.280 --> 0:02:58.760 every name, every place name, every person's name in this episode. Sorry, 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:01.320 but that's the way it goes. People who know this 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:04.519 language admit it's kind of a tough language. Give it 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:07.160 your best, Joe. Our four teenagers. Hear their names is 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:14.720 like the best I can say them Your Molly Yorkland, Anya, Mokei, Seppa, Boiseman, Nils, Gustav. 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:19.239 He has the easiest. Yeah, this is easy. I just goodness. Yeah. 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:23.160 It turns out Moley and on Ya we're both fifteen 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:26.679 year old girls. Sepa and Nils were eighteen, and one 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:30.440 of them were was dating there there. Yes, Steppa had 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:32.359 been dating on for about a year, so I guess 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:34.600 I started dating when she was fourteen. I thought you 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:40.280 was seventeen, it was sixty. Things were kind of a 0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:43.200 gray area then. I still think it's a little weird, 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:45.880 but standards, but well, I don't know what the laws 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:50.360 are in Finland. Maybe it's perfectly a little bubboard. Maybe Yeah, 0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:54.640 Neils have been dating your your Molly for a month. Anyway, 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:57.160 there they're they're seting out their camp on a small 0:03:57.200 --> 0:03:59.840 peninsula that's down to the southwest corner of the lake. 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:07.280 Peninsula is called Emmy, which it finished means murder Peninsula. 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:09.760 Was they always called that? I don't know, I don't. 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:12.520 I doubt it. It's called that since then. Yeah, it 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:15.960 would be awesome if it always that's the question, right, 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:18.560 It's like, was some did some teenagers think, you know, 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:24.159 we're a great place to camp Murder Point? Yeah, yeah, 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:28.919 campers always killed cabin let's go there. Yeah, but I 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:32.760 got that off of Google naps are actually Google Google Earth, 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:35.920 you know how they slapped place names and on various things, 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:38.520 and yeah, that was on there. So I translated it 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:42.599 and that's what I said. Yeah, I'm not surprised he 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:46.719 has a name like that. Yeah. So, uh, they hung out, 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:49.320 hung out and did camping kind of things, and then 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:53.440 about went to bed. You remember, you gotta remember that 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:56.440 Finland is way far north, so sunset on June four 0:04:56.520 --> 0:04:59.800 would have been around ten thirty. So they went to 0:04:59.839 --> 0:05:04.320 bed about sunset, yeah, because well sunrise is real early too. Well. 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:06.640 And the thing, I don't know if a lot of 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:09.760 people have spent time in kind of the northern regions. 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:12.640 I suppose many of our listeners have. If you haven't, 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:17.000 there's also a huge discrepancy between like sunset and then 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:20.320 there's like a couple hours of dusk right before it 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:22.760 gets like really really dark, and then it's dark for 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:25.520 just a couple of hours before it starts to be 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:29.360 dawn on a good night, on a good night, yeah, 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:32.000 and then the sun rises. So that's another thing to 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:33.880 keep in mind while I'll tell the story, is that 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:36.120 it would have been light out for the bulk of 0:05:36.160 --> 0:05:38.760 the night as well. I think I think it actually 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:42.040 said on that same page that you got the sunset 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:44.560 at ten thirty. I think it said that full dark 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:46.719 was at midnight or something like that. It was dark 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:48.880 for like three hours. Yeah, and then and then the 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:52.120 sunrise is in the morning. That sounds right, right, So 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:55.360 you read that too. Yeah, I remember that the sun rose. 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:58.359 So it makes sense it really in this case, I'd say, what, 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:02.280 there's four hours between sun set in sunrise, I'd say 0:06:02.480 --> 0:06:06.640 full dark is almost nil at that point. Yeah. Yeah, 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:08.200 so I guess you get used to it. I suppose 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:10.600 you get used to sleeping when it's light out. Yeah. Well, 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:12.320 I'm sure they were used to that, but that's probably 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:15.479 why they went to bed at about sunset, knowing they 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:20.200 would try to sleep when it was dark as at least. Yeah, exactly. Okay, 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:23.480 back to our story. That just was a large canvas 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:26.400 pup pup tent. As I'm sure you all know camp. 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:29.640 A pup tent is supported by a pole at either end, 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:32.560 and then the pole is held in place by a 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:34.320 rope that goes down to a stake in the ground 0:06:34.520 --> 0:06:37.360 right there on two ends on each on either end. Yeah, 0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:41.720 like the quintessential tent. Yeah, that's kind of yeah, one 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:43.960 of the old school canvas. I think of it as 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:47.120 like a Wes Anderson tent. But that's just because that's 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:50.640 my frame of reference from mid century. So yeah, yeah, sorry, 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:52.560 I actually had a pup tent when I was a kid. 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:55.360 I used it a lot, camped a lot more back then. Well, 0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:58.760 there's less murders. Yeah, that's yeah, I think that you 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:02.640 knew of Yeah. Yeah, a lot of people just moved 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:07.599 unannounced immediately with leaving all of their stuff behind. Yeah. Yeah, 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:11.400 so I'm gonna go camping and then moved. Yeah, they 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:14.360 must have moved those ox after stuff. So back to 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:19.040 our spot of unpleasantness, Pinsula, let's refer to it by 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:22.679 its real name. Yeah, that pleasantness took place in daylight 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:27.200 because the attack happened between four and six am, and 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:29.960 at that time, a person or possibly persons cut the 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:32.880 lines at both ends of the tent. The tent collapsed 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:36.080 on our sleeping protagonists and then and then again while 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:39.280 person or two persons attacked them with the blood object 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:42.600 in a knife that poundered on their heads and stabbed 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:46.320 them through the canvas. It's unclear what the blood object was. 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:47.840 It could have been a rock or it could have 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:50.240 been a pipe and those gustus And appears to have 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:52.440 been the only one of the four to actually crawl 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:53.920 out of the tent, but he was brought down by 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:56.680 blows to the head and slashed to the forehead, and 0:07:56.720 --> 0:07:58.920 he wound up laying unconscious on top of the tent. 0:07:59.000 --> 0:08:01.440 When the tent had the other bodies inside of it. 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:03.920 I thought one of the other girls was also like 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:06.440 at least partially out of the tent. Yeah, one of 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:10.960 his his um, Molly, I've heard it in one place. 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:13.320 I heard that she was she was either partially or 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:16.680 completely out of the tent. And also her her pants 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:19.880 or skirt whatever she was wearing was gone. Yeah. So 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:23.560 I remember reading, and I think this helps kind of 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:27.520 describe some of this is pop tenser. You know, you 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:30.000 lay in them and you're kind of like a log, 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:32.280 you're laying in a row. And if I remember correctly, 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:36.040 it was the boys were on the outsides of the tent, 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:38.679 so one on either side, and then the girls were 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:41.120 side by side in the center. I thought it was 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:42.640 a reverse. I thought it was the guys on the 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:46.080 inside and the girls on the outside, because I that's 0:08:46.160 --> 0:08:47.720 well the way I had heard it was that it 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:49.840 was the guys were on the outside or read it, 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:54.600 I should say, And I got I couldn't tell which 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:57.560 direction they were sleeping, because that pup tent, when you 0:08:57.600 --> 0:09:00.840 look at it, is pretty damn small. Yeah, so I 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:03.600 was trying to figure out how they were stacked in there. 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:06.240 Were they on their sides were they all kind of 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:09.679 at a ninety degree angle with their legs bend from 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:13.280 the spine. They probably were all just stacked in a row, 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:17.040 just in a row for our gains and a can right, Yeah, 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:20.560 it's kind of And the tent when I saw it, 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:22.640 and maybe this was just for some of the reason, 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:25.079 it had tears in it, But it seemed like both 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:29.600 ends by the peaks, both ends had tears of stabs 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:31.360 and ribs and them. Is that when you saw what 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:34.960 I saw? Yeah, plus a really big hole torn in it, right, 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:38.040 and a bunch of blood. It looked like all on 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:40.199 one side, all the tears were happening. On the one 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:45.040 side it was still intact. Yeah. You know, I haven't 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:47.920 seen a picture of both sides of the town. Yeah, yeah, 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:50.160 I've only seen it from one side. Yeah, but it 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:55.840 looks like there was it was canvas through. I just 0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:57.960 mean that, like when you looked at that picture, it 0:09:58.000 --> 0:10:00.439 was it looked like there was canvas on the other side, Oh, 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:04.080 the back side of the tent that we couldn't see, 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:06.599 or the opposite side of it. Yeah, probably that the 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:08.720 poles when the ropes were kind of went in and 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:11.680 then that one shows aside and just both went down 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:14.400 one side of the other so one side could tipped 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:18.800 away from us, Yeah, and on over their bodies and 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:22.000 then just started pounding away with his blood object, which 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:25.240 would explain why only one of the two sides of 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:27.600 the pitch of the tent had the holes in it. 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:30.480 That makes sense. But what I don't get is if 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:34.400 they are being assaulted that much. And like I said, 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:37.200 it seemed like that side of the pitch, the left 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:39.200 and right side of it had holes in it, so 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:41.679 it wasn't like they were going for what they expected 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:43.360 to be the heads. And I got the impression that 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:47.600 whoever was doing the attacking didn't know where their heads 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:50.960 were in the tent, so kind of went after both sides. 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:53.000 You could have jumped on top of them and felt 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:55.280 aroun until he found and found the head and then bash. 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:58.040 You know that that might have been the way, and 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:01.080 it could have forgotten cut in the struggle with Nell's 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:03.840 trying to get out of the tent. Yeah. Well, and 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:06.720 that's the thing, and that's what that's what led me 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:09.120 to this whole thing, is if he gets out, how 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:10.760 did he get out of the tent, because obviously he 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:12.800 couldn't have gone through the flap, he would have had 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:15.960 gone through all the holes that was kind well, that's 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:19.319 one of those holes was definitely way big enough for 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:21.200 him to get out, right. But that's why I'm wondering 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:25.719 if the girl, um what is her name again or Molly, 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:30.640 I'm almost wondering if she didn't necessarily actually climb out 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:32.640 as much as kind of half to get drug out 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:37.760 as he was scrambling out, or maybe the killer drugger 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:41.800 out afterwards. True, Yeah, we don't know. Niel's actually doesn't 0:11:41.840 --> 0:11:44.920 remember anything in the attack. Weird got hit real hard 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:48.679 on the head or yea to keep cashion, Yeah, he 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:51.760 got hit both, just because this is important later, right, 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:56.880 he did front and back pretty hard, shattered his jaw. Yeah, okay, 0:11:56.920 --> 0:11:58.880 I just want to make sure that we've said that 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:02.320 he got whale. I will bring that up later. He 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:05.319 was seriously injured, but he did survive the attack. He 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:07.719 had to go to the hospital, of course. Uh, they 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:09.160 had to list his injuries. He had to blow to 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:11.120 the back of the head, which gave him a wound 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:13.520 or in a lump back there that which probably is 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:15.840 what gave him his concussion, and then his jaw was 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:18.440 shattered and in the hospital. It looked like his eye 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:21.440 was puffed up too. Yeah, I don't know if that's 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:23.600 just a side effect of getting your josh added if 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:27.520 you got Okay, that's what I and I'm gonna ask 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:30.720 these questions a couple of times because the research is 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:36.199 a little spotty in places, at least in English to 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:39.920 find the answer. So do we know where from where 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:43.439 his jaw was shattered? Was it on from the side 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:47.080 of the mandible? Was it from the point of the chin. 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:49.120 I got the impression it was on the side. I 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:51.679 got the impression it was on the side also, Okay, 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:54.240 So that would explain why if you get hit hard 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:57.160 enough to break your your jaw, why your eyes going 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:01.080 to swell up? Yeah? Probably Yeah, especially if you were 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:04.400 laying on your side, because that's where the blood would 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:07.640 pool more. If you had any kind of internal bleeding. Well, 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:10.880 was the swollen I are you saying he was laying 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:14.960 on the brake after the fact, Yeah, okay, I don't know. 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:17.120 I'm just saying, yeah, it also helped. I don't know. 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:19.520 I was just thinking a blow hard enough to show Again, 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:22.679 I may just be making this up. I'm doing the 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:27.760 same that we just don't know uh, at the time 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:30.439 of the attack was determined by the temperature stiffness of 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:32.959 the bodies, which is usually the way they do that. 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:37.240 And yeah, yeah, And as to what the blood object was, 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:40.720 it's hard to say what it was without radiomedical examiner's report. 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:42.880 Getting hit with a pipe is it's going to leave 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:45.559 a different wound and getting hit with a rock, although 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:47.400 that I think about using a big rock said of 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:49.200 a pipeus, it's really easy to get rid of your 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:52.800 murder weapon, especially if you're right next to a late 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:56.760 he just tossed in the lake. Yeah, so that's the 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:59.800 argument pavor of using a rock. Plus, you know, I 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:01.559 do know if this was a well planned attack, I 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:04.040 feel it's just a spur of the moment thing. Lots 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:05.520 of lots of us are likely to have a knife 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:08.360 auto steady given time. Most of us aren't gonna have 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:12.040 a knife and a lead pipe. Probably not I do, 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:14.680 but that's me. Yeah, that's because you don't like to 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:16.760 watch your car by yourself. Yeah, because you guys keep 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:23.280 scaring me these creepy stories. Nills was even he couldn't 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:26.680 remember it, but he was hypnotized after Yeah, and he 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:29.240 identified the optects then as a pipe or a cylinder, 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:31.600 but I'm not sure how serious it should take that. 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:33.840 Are we going to talk about what he said when 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:38.240 he was hypnotized? Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I definitely we 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:40.480 will definitely talk about that, even though again I'm not 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:43.640 sure how seriously we should take this hypnosis stuff. We've 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:47.360 talked about that before. Sometime not long after the murders, 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:50.520 two young boys who apparently were at bird watching that 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:53.520 happened by the camp site. They noticed a tent and 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:56.200 Nils lying on it. But apparently they just assumed that 0:14:56.200 --> 0:14:58.840 he was taking a snooze in the sun because they 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:02.800 just they just it have wandered on. But before they 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:05.200 well they were they were first attracted by the motorcycles. 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:06.960 Well apparently that was that was part of what they 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:09.160 said that they were interested in the motorcycles also, and 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:11.720 so they saw him laying there, and they also saw 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:14.120 a blonde man walking away from the camps that toward 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:17.680 the lake and then that they molted on. Were they 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:20.840 were they the ones that helped to provide the sketches 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:23.880 of the blonde man. Yeah, no, they didn't see the 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:26.040 blond man's face. He was back to them. Yeah, I 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:28.280 just wanted to make sure. Yeah, yeah, I'm not sure. 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:31.680 If I don't, I think it was actually Nils. He 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:34.640 provided did the sketches, and the sketches came out really 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:37.040 kind of funky looking. Yeah, it didn't look like a 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:41.960 human being. Hopefully we'll post pictures. They're creepy. Yeah, yeah, 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:44.240 and I don't. I can't imagine any human being who 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:49.560 looks like that, So that's the strange thing. The pure Yeah, yeah, 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:53.960 look like a giant forehead maybe yea, and a huge 0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:59.000 seventies hulk. Yeah, maybe, Sorry, it's okay. Our blonde guy. 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:01.360 The blond man was also seen by a guy who 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:04.000 was fishing nearby some some set on the farther shore. 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:06.160 But that could mean like since you were in a peninsula, 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:09.000 you know, that could mean just like right over here, 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:11.440 you know, how to treat. Probably was reasonably close if 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:13.000 it was a far far shore of the lake. Well, 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:14.560 this this is a big lake. It's like half a 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:17.280 mile across. That had to be close. It had to 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:19.640 be kind of close. But we don't know for sure 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:22.840 if it was the same guy. Because of the population 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:26.760 of Finland is blonde, so uh, you know, there's kind 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:32.520 of a commonality there. Yeah, it didn't add as it happened, 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:36.960 Neils laid there unconscious until eleven am on. Somebody was 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:42.400 jogging by. His name was Reto swim team. I hearned it. 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:45.280 It was some swimmers or something. There was something swimming. 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:48.160 I I heard a lot of contradictory things that this 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:49.680 is the guy that I had heard. It was a 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:52.520 single guy who was who was a carpenter by trade, 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:54.640 who was out for a jog. That's what I heard. 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:57.040 I don't know, I don't know where I I thought 0:16:57.080 --> 0:16:59.760 I read somewhere it was swimmers or a swim team 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:05.600 or thing. Yeah, but somebody well it was a swim 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:10.320 achieve of carpenters. Yeah. Yeah, So he came by. He 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:12.520 noticed that he noticed the scene, and he went over 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:16.399 and checked and noticed that that Nils was injured, and 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:18.119 there appeared to be bodies in the tent. And he 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:20.359 might have noticed also his girlfriend lying next to him 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:22.200 on top of the tent. It is a tent covered 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:24.200 in blood, yeah, and as blood. So they cat He 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:27.200 calls the police. Then word gets out around town. Espo 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:30.240 was not a really huge town. Uh work going around fast. 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:32.879 Everybody from Espo came out and started walking around through 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:37.320 the woods looking for clues or evidence or murder weapons um. 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:39.960 And surprisingly the local police were okay with that. But 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:42.200 I guess it might be that they just didn't have 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:45.080 a lot of resources on the police force, you know, 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:47.800 to actually call like combed through the woods themselves, so 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:49.639 they got the locals to do it and seem like 0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:51.960 this is something they deal with on a regular also, 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:55.080 and to that point, right that they would think, well, 0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:58.360 clearly nobody from our community could have done this, so 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:01.000 they wouldn't be trying to cover it up, so they 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:05.960 can help. That's fine, right, that innocent thought process. Yeah, yeah, 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:07.760 that is a that's a good point. You know, you 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:08.840 want the first thing you want to do is get 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:12.439 on that combing team. You were the murder. Yeah, and 0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:16.000 that is not uncommon. Yeah, that's not You can get 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:18.520 out there and coming through the woods looking for the 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:21.280 murder just like happened upon it and then just happened 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:24.680 and like not reported. Yeah. The police will started going 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:26.840 through the personal effects of the victims and they found 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:28.600 that some of the some of the stuff was missing, 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:32.760 like the wallets and the swimsuits. Also Nils and Seppo 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:35.879 shoes were gone and the swimsuits. Maybe it can be 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:38.879 explained because I hear like bottom is very cold, and 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:41.280 so maybe they weren't planning on swimming at all. Where 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:46.240 did I read something about Nils was talking. There's there's 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:50.160 some interview or there's some transcript of him talking about 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:52.600 the fact that I swear it was him. He had 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:54.240 gone down to the water, he was going to go 0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:58.880 swim the hypnotism interview, and the other guy was fishing, 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:01.439 and then he decided not to swim because it's so cold, 0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:06.600 which would mean that his swim gear had disappeared. Alternately, though, 0:19:06.880 --> 0:19:10.440 if he had gotten it wet, or if they had 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:12.679 gone swimming at all. You know, when I go swimming 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:15.359 at a lake, I lay my swim clothes out, like 0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:18.359 on the lake shore where it's sunniest and more missed, 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:20.760 or hang from a branch, you know, yeah, something like 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:23.560 that to dry. So if they had gone in and 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:25.320 been like, well, I'm just kidding, it's way too cold, 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:27.639 you take that thing off and lay it out to 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:30.399 dry somewhere, So that would also account for true. But 0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:34.359 I I mean most people do it close to camp. Yeah, 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:37.680 that's true. And I'm sure they searched the shore. I mean, 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:39.920 you know, so you would think they would have found 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:42.360 if they were laying around there, but they might they 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:45.000 just maybe they didn't bring any at all. And I 0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:48.640 I you talked about the shoes were missing. Yeah, okay, 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:50.600 and what I know, those come up later on, and 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:52.720 I just want to make sure people understand that the 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:57.040 shoes were missing, which is weird that we're definitely missing. Yeah, 0:19:57.359 --> 0:20:01.359 so that's that's still kind of inexplicable. Yeah, that's really weird. 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:05.120 Actually the wallets being gone my point of this being 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:07.359 a robbery with a little murder throw until on the end. 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:11.399 It's hard to say. But also they were eighteen and fifteen, respectively, 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:14.639 so like it wouldn't be much. Yeah, you can't be 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:17.480 that good of a motive. Motive. Yeah, and actually I 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:19.600 have to admit I've only heard about the missing Wallace 0:20:19.680 --> 0:20:22.560 from one source. Again, this story is a little different 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:24.960 everywhere you read it, and it's hard to I think 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:28.280 finish is hard. I know Google Translate has a really 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:31.520 hard time with finish. We were talking about there's a 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:34.520 really great with like a very as far as I 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:40.080 can tell, exhaustive Wikipedia article in Finnish about this, and 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:43.320 you know, you tell, okay, Chrome translate this and you 0:20:43.359 --> 0:20:46.920 do you get sentences where it's like the man's chin 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:50.520 was afternoon and un rock like appearance, and it's like, 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:52.760 I don't know what that means. I'm sorry, I don't know, 0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:54.840 or you're trying to tell me right now. So there's 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:58.280 there's that difficulty as well. Yeah, there's a uh. I 0:20:58.359 --> 0:21:03.119 translated another out the Wicked finished page into into English 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:04.639