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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways is not supported by the tiny community of

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Speaker 1: highly intelligent creatures that live in the lent that has

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Speaker 1: built up in your dryer. Instead, it's supported by the

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Speaker 1: generous donations of our listeners on Patreon. Visit patreon dot

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Speaker 1: com slash thinking sideways to learn more and thanks Thinking Sideways.

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Speaker 1: I don't understand you never know stories of things. We

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Speaker 1: simply don't know the answer too. Well. Here there, welcome

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Speaker 1: to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe, joined as

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Speaker 1: always by Devin and Steve. We're back. I know it's

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Speaker 1: seems like a long time, but it's only been a week, folks.

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Speaker 1: That's how much you love our episodes. Uh, this week

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Speaker 1: where I can continue our October a series of Thinking

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Speaker 1: Sideways Most wanted, meaning the mysteries that you people all

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Speaker 1: voted to have us talk about. So this is like

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Speaker 1: remember what four on the list? I think? So the

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Speaker 1: third runner up to third runner up in like beauty

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Speaker 1: pageant says, how do you do it? You've the first

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Speaker 1: runner up in the the first place, or a winner.

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Speaker 1: I just find it easier just to say one through five.

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Speaker 1: But okay, well last week was fourth runner up. So

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Speaker 1: well that's because you decided to call doing my way.

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Speaker 1: We screwed it up my way. Al right, back to

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Speaker 1: our mystery. Yeah, we're gonna be talking about an event

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Speaker 1: that took place in nineteen sixty had a place called

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Speaker 1: Lake Bottom in Finland. There was a little bit of

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Speaker 1: unpleasantness at this lake and we won't go into it

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Speaker 1: any further than that because it's scary and gross. End

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Speaker 1: of episode. Yeah, thanks for listening. Yeah, thanks for voting

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Speaker 1: to All Right, so we're looking at We're gonna be

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Speaker 1: looking to the Lake Bottom murders, which is the greatest

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Speaker 1: don stall of crime in the history of Finland. All

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Speaker 1: our story begins June four, nineteen sixty four. Teenagers set

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Speaker 1: up from the town of Espo, Finland, on their motorcyclist

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Speaker 1: to go into camping trip. Their destination was Lake Bottom,

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Speaker 1: which is just to the north of town, so they

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Speaker 1: didn't have to go too far. But it turns out

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Speaker 1: there camping there it just wasn't a good idea at all. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean it usually it was, wasn't it kind of

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Speaker 1: like a local teen hangout. Actually teenagers did the party. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think it actually still is a popular place and

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Speaker 1: you know, sweating fishing, you know, camping, drinking a little booze.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, so yeah, it's so people have not been

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Speaker 1: to Turred. I guess there's still there and hanging out. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The four teenagers in that we're talking about, we're finished,

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Speaker 1: of course, which means that they have un pronounceable names.

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Speaker 1: So what are we going to him instead? Yeah? I

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Speaker 1: know I'm going to call him Larry, Fred, Giselle, and Trudy.

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Speaker 1: Right close enough? All right, I'm probably gonna miss pronounced

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Speaker 1: every name, every place name, every person's name in this episode. Sorry,

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Speaker 1: but that's the way it goes. People who know this

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Speaker 1: language admit it's kind of a tough language. Give it

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Speaker 1: your best, Joe. Our four teenagers. Hear their names is

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Speaker 1: like the best I can say them Your Molly Yorkland, Anya, Mokei, Seppa, Boiseman, Nils, Gustav.

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Speaker 1: He has the easiest. Yeah, this is easy. I just goodness. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It turns out Moley and on Ya we're both fifteen

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Speaker 1: year old girls. Sepa and Nils were eighteen, and one

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Speaker 1: of them were was dating there there. Yes, Steppa had

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Speaker 1: been dating on for about a year, so I guess

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Speaker 1: I started dating when she was fourteen. I thought you

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Speaker 1: was seventeen, it was sixty. Things were kind of a

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Speaker 1: gray area then. I still think it's a little weird,

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Speaker 1: but standards, but well, I don't know what the laws

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Speaker 1: are in Finland. Maybe it's perfectly a little bubboard. Maybe Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Neils have been dating your your Molly for a month. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: there they're they're seting out their camp on a small

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Speaker 1: peninsula that's down to the southwest corner of the lake.

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Speaker 1: Peninsula is called Emmy, which it finished means murder Peninsula.

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Speaker 1: Was they always called that? I don't know, I don't.

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Speaker 1: I doubt it. It's called that since then. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: would be awesome if it always that's the question, right,

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Speaker 1: It's like, was some did some teenagers think, you know,

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Speaker 1: we're a great place to camp Murder Point? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: campers always killed cabin let's go there. Yeah, but I

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Speaker 1: got that off of Google naps are actually Google Google Earth,

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Speaker 1: you know how they slapped place names and on various things,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, that was on there. So I translated it

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Speaker 1: and that's what I said. Yeah, I'm not surprised he

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Speaker 1: has a name like that. Yeah. So, uh, they hung out,

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Speaker 1: hung out and did camping kind of things, and then

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Speaker 1: about went to bed. You remember, you gotta remember that

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Speaker 1: Finland is way far north, so sunset on June four

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Speaker 1: would have been around ten thirty. So they went to

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Speaker 1: bed about sunset, yeah, because well sunrise is real early too. Well.

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Speaker 1: And the thing, I don't know if a lot of

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Speaker 1: people have spent time in kind of the northern regions.

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Speaker 1: I suppose many of our listeners have. If you haven't,

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Speaker 1: there's also a huge discrepancy between like sunset and then

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Speaker 1: there's like a couple hours of dusk right before it

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Speaker 1: gets like really really dark, and then it's dark for

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Speaker 1: just a couple of hours before it starts to be

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Speaker 1: dawn on a good night, on a good night, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then the sun rises. So that's another thing to

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Speaker 1: keep in mind while I'll tell the story, is that

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Speaker 1: it would have been light out for the bulk of

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Speaker 1: the night as well. I think I think it actually

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Speaker 1: said on that same page that you got the sunset

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Speaker 1: at ten thirty. I think it said that full dark

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Speaker 1: was at midnight or something like that. It was dark

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Speaker 1: for like three hours. Yeah, and then and then the

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Speaker 1: sunrise is in the morning. That sounds right, right, So

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Speaker 1: you read that too. Yeah, I remember that the sun rose.

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Speaker 1: So it makes sense it really in this case, I'd say, what,

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Speaker 1: there's four hours between sun set in sunrise, I'd say

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Speaker 1: full dark is almost nil at that point. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I guess you get used to it. I suppose

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Speaker 1: you get used to sleeping when it's light out. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure they were used to that, but that's probably

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Speaker 1: why they went to bed at about sunset, knowing they

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Speaker 1: would try to sleep when it was dark as at least. Yeah, exactly. Okay,

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Speaker 1: back to our story. That just was a large canvas

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Speaker 1: pup pup tent. As I'm sure you all know camp.

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Speaker 1: A pup tent is supported by a pole at either end,

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Speaker 1: and then the pole is held in place by a

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Speaker 1: rope that goes down to a stake in the ground

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Speaker 1: right there on two ends on each on either end. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like the quintessential tent. Yeah, that's kind of yeah, one

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Speaker 1: of the old school canvas. I think of it as

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Speaker 1: like a Wes Anderson tent. But that's just because that's

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Speaker 1: my frame of reference from mid century. So yeah, yeah, sorry,

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Speaker 1: I actually had a pup tent when I was a kid.

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Speaker 1: I used it a lot, camped a lot more back then. Well,

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Speaker 1: there's less murders. Yeah, that's yeah, I think that you

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Speaker 1: knew of Yeah. Yeah, a lot of people just moved

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Speaker 1: unannounced immediately with leaving all of their stuff behind. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I'm gonna go camping and then moved. Yeah, they

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Speaker 1: must have moved those ox after stuff. So back to

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Speaker 1: our spot of unpleasantness, Pinsula, let's refer to it by

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Speaker 1: its real name. Yeah, that pleasantness took place in daylight

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Speaker 1: because the attack happened between four and six am, and

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Speaker 1: at that time, a person or possibly persons cut the

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Speaker 1: lines at both ends of the tent. The tent collapsed

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Speaker 1: on our sleeping protagonists and then and then again while

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Speaker 1: person or two persons attacked them with the blood object

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Speaker 1: in a knife that poundered on their heads and stabbed

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Speaker 1: them through the canvas. It's unclear what the blood object was.

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Speaker 1: It could have been a rock or it could have

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Speaker 1: been a pipe and those gustus And appears to have

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Speaker 1: been the only one of the four to actually crawl

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Speaker 1: out of the tent, but he was brought down by

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Speaker 1: blows to the head and slashed to the forehead, and

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Speaker 1: he wound up laying unconscious on top of the tent.

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Speaker 1: When the tent had the other bodies inside of it.

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Speaker 1: I thought one of the other girls was also like

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Speaker 1: at least partially out of the tent. Yeah, one of

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Speaker 1: his his um, Molly, I've heard it in one place.

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Speaker 1: I heard that she was she was either partially or

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Speaker 1: completely out of the tent. And also her her pants

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Speaker 1: or skirt whatever she was wearing was gone. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: I remember reading, and I think this helps kind of

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Speaker 1: describe some of this is pop tenser. You know, you

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Speaker 1: lay in them and you're kind of like a log,

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Speaker 1: you're laying in a row. And if I remember correctly,

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Speaker 1: it was the boys were on the outsides of the tent,

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Speaker 1: so one on either side, and then the girls were

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Speaker 1: side by side in the center. I thought it was

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Speaker 1: a reverse. I thought it was the guys on the

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Speaker 1: inside and the girls on the outside, because I that's

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Speaker 1: well the way I had heard it was that it

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Speaker 1: was the guys were on the outside or read it,

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Speaker 1: I should say, And I got I couldn't tell which

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Speaker 1: direction they were sleeping, because that pup tent, when you

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Speaker 1: look at it, is pretty damn small. Yeah, so I

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Speaker 1: was trying to figure out how they were stacked in there.

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Speaker 1: Were they on their sides were they all kind of

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Speaker 1: at a ninety degree angle with their legs bend from

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Speaker 1: the spine. They probably were all just stacked in a row,

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Speaker 1: just in a row for our gains and a can right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of And the tent when I saw it,

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Speaker 1: and maybe this was just for some of the reason,

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Speaker 1: it had tears in it, But it seemed like both

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Speaker 1: ends by the peaks, both ends had tears of stabs

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Speaker 1: and ribs and them. Is that when you saw what

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Speaker 1: I saw? Yeah, plus a really big hole torn in it, right,

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Speaker 1: and a bunch of blood. It looked like all on

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Speaker 1: one side, all the tears were happening. On the one

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Speaker 1: side it was still intact. Yeah. You know, I haven't

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Speaker 1: seen a picture of both sides of the town. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've only seen it from one side. Yeah, but it

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Speaker 1: looks like there was it was canvas through. I just

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Speaker 1: mean that, like when you looked at that picture, it

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Speaker 1: was it looked like there was canvas on the other side, Oh,

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Speaker 1: the back side of the tent that we couldn't see,

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Speaker 1: or the opposite side of it. Yeah, probably that the

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Speaker 1: poles when the ropes were kind of went in and

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Speaker 1: then that one shows aside and just both went down

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Speaker 1: one side of the other so one side could tipped

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Speaker 1: away from us, Yeah, and on over their bodies and

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Speaker 1: then just started pounding away with his blood object, which

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Speaker 1: would explain why only one of the two sides of

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Speaker 1: the pitch of the tent had the holes in it.

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Speaker 1: That makes sense. But what I don't get is if

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Speaker 1: they are being assaulted that much. And like I said,

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Speaker 1: it seemed like that side of the pitch, the left

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Speaker 1: and right side of it had holes in it, so

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Speaker 1: it wasn't like they were going for what they expected

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Speaker 1: to be the heads. And I got the impression that

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Speaker 1: whoever was doing the attacking didn't know where their heads

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Speaker 1: were in the tent, so kind of went after both sides.

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Speaker 1: You could have jumped on top of them and felt

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Speaker 1: aroun until he found and found the head and then bash.

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Speaker 1: You know that that might have been the way, and

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Speaker 1: it could have forgotten cut in the struggle with Nell's

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Speaker 1: trying to get out of the tent. Yeah. Well, and

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Speaker 1: that's the thing, and that's what that's what led me

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Speaker 1: to this whole thing, is if he gets out, how

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Speaker 1: did he get out of the tent, because obviously he

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Speaker 1: couldn't have gone through the flap, he would have had

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Speaker 1: gone through all the holes that was kind well, that's

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Speaker 1: one of those holes was definitely way big enough for

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Speaker 1: him to get out, right. But that's why I'm wondering

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Speaker 1: if the girl, um what is her name again or Molly,

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Speaker 1: I'm almost wondering if she didn't necessarily actually climb out

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Speaker 1: as much as kind of half to get drug out

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Speaker 1: as he was scrambling out, or maybe the killer drugger

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Speaker 1: out afterwards. True, Yeah, we don't know. Niel's actually doesn't

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Speaker 1: remember anything in the attack. Weird got hit real hard

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Speaker 1: on the head or yea to keep cashion, Yeah, he

218
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Speaker 1: got hit both, just because this is important later, right,

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Speaker 1: he did front and back pretty hard, shattered his jaw. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: I just want to make sure that we've said that

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Speaker 1: he got whale. I will bring that up later. He

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Speaker 1: was seriously injured, but he did survive the attack. He

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Speaker 1: had to go to the hospital, of course. Uh, they

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Speaker 1: had to list his injuries. He had to blow to

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Speaker 1: the back of the head, which gave him a wound

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Speaker 1: or in a lump back there that which probably is

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Speaker 1: what gave him his concussion, and then his jaw was

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Speaker 1: shattered and in the hospital. It looked like his eye

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Speaker 1: was puffed up too. Yeah, I don't know if that's

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Speaker 1: just a side effect of getting your josh added if

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Speaker 1: you got Okay, that's what I and I'm gonna ask

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Speaker 1: these questions a couple of times because the research is

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Speaker 1: a little spotty in places, at least in English to

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Speaker 1: find the answer. So do we know where from where

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Speaker 1: his jaw was shattered? Was it on from the side

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Speaker 1: of the mandible? Was it from the point of the chin.

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Speaker 1: I got the impression it was on the side. I

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Speaker 1: got the impression it was on the side also, Okay,

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Speaker 1: So that would explain why if you get hit hard

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Speaker 1: enough to break your your jaw, why your eyes going

241
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Speaker 1: to swell up? Yeah? Probably Yeah, especially if you were

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Speaker 1: laying on your side, because that's where the blood would

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Speaker 1: pool more. If you had any kind of internal bleeding. Well,

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Speaker 1: was the swollen I are you saying he was laying

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Speaker 1: on the brake after the fact, Yeah, okay, I don't know.

246
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Speaker 1: I'm just saying, yeah, it also helped. I don't know.

247
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Speaker 1: I was just thinking a blow hard enough to show Again,

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Speaker 1: I may just be making this up. I'm doing the

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Speaker 1: same that we just don't know uh, at the time

250
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Speaker 1: of the attack was determined by the temperature stiffness of

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Speaker 1: the bodies, which is usually the way they do that.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, yeah, And as to what the blood object was,

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Speaker 1: it's hard to say what it was without radiomedical examiner's report.

254
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Speaker 1: Getting hit with a pipe is it's going to leave

255
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Speaker 1: a different wound and getting hit with a rock, although

256
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Speaker 1: that I think about using a big rock said of

257
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Speaker 1: a pipeus, it's really easy to get rid of your

258
00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:52,800
Speaker 1: murder weapon, especially if you're right next to a late

259
00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:56,760
Speaker 1: he just tossed in the lake. Yeah, so that's the

260
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Speaker 1: argument pavor of using a rock. Plus, you know, I

261
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Speaker 1: do know if this was a well planned attack, I

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Speaker 1: feel it's just a spur of the moment thing. Lots

263
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Speaker 1: of lots of us are likely to have a knife

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Speaker 1: auto steady given time. Most of us aren't gonna have

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Speaker 1: a knife and a lead pipe. Probably not I do,

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Speaker 1: but that's me. Yeah, that's because you don't like to

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Speaker 1: watch your car by yourself. Yeah, because you guys keep

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Speaker 1: scaring me these creepy stories. Nills was even he couldn't

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Speaker 1: remember it, but he was hypnotized after Yeah, and he

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Speaker 1: identified the optects then as a pipe or a cylinder,

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Speaker 1: but I'm not sure how serious it should take that.

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Speaker 1: Are we going to talk about what he said when

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Speaker 1: he was hypnotized? Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I definitely we

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Speaker 1: will definitely talk about that, even though again I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure how seriously we should take this hypnosis stuff. We've

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Speaker 1: talked about that before. Sometime not long after the murders,

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Speaker 1: two young boys who apparently were at bird watching that

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Speaker 1: happened by the camp site. They noticed a tent and

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Speaker 1: Nils lying on it. But apparently they just assumed that

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Speaker 1: he was taking a snooze in the sun because they

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Speaker 1: just they just it have wandered on. But before they

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Speaker 1: well they were they were first attracted by the motorcycles.

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Speaker 1: Well apparently that was that was part of what they

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Speaker 1: said that they were interested in the motorcycles also, and

285
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Speaker 1: so they saw him laying there, and they also saw

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Speaker 1: a blonde man walking away from the camps that toward

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Speaker 1: the lake and then that they molted on. Were they

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Speaker 1: were they the ones that helped to provide the sketches

289
00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:23,880
Speaker 1: of the blonde man. Yeah, no, they didn't see the

290
00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,040
Speaker 1: blond man's face. He was back to them. Yeah, I

291
00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:28,280
Speaker 1: just wanted to make sure. Yeah, yeah, I'm not sure.

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Speaker 1: If I don't, I think it was actually Nils. He

293
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Speaker 1: provided did the sketches, and the sketches came out really

294
00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,040
Speaker 1: kind of funky looking. Yeah, it didn't look like a

295
00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:41,960
Speaker 1: human being. Hopefully we'll post pictures. They're creepy. Yeah, yeah,

296
00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:44,240
Speaker 1: and I don't. I can't imagine any human being who

297
00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:49,560
Speaker 1: looks like that, So that's the strange thing. The pure Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: look like a giant forehead maybe yea, and a huge

299
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Speaker 1: seventies hulk. Yeah, maybe, Sorry, it's okay. Our blonde guy.

300
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Speaker 1: The blond man was also seen by a guy who

301
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Speaker 1: was fishing nearby some some set on the farther shore.

302
00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:06,160
Speaker 1: But that could mean like since you were in a peninsula,

303
00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,000
Speaker 1: you know, that could mean just like right over here,

304
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,440
Speaker 1: you know, how to treat. Probably was reasonably close if

305
00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:13,000
Speaker 1: it was a far far shore of the lake. Well,

306
00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:14,560
Speaker 1: this this is a big lake. It's like half a

307
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Speaker 1: mile across. That had to be close. It had to

308
00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:19,640
Speaker 1: be kind of close. But we don't know for sure

309
00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,840
Speaker 1: if it was the same guy. Because of the population

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Speaker 1: of Finland is blonde, so uh, you know, there's kind

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00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:32,520
Speaker 1: of a commonality there. Yeah, it didn't add as it happened,

312
00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,960
Speaker 1: Neils laid there unconscious until eleven am on. Somebody was

313
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Speaker 1: jogging by. His name was Reto swim team. I hearned it.

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Speaker 1: It was some swimmers or something. There was something swimming.

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Speaker 1: I I heard a lot of contradictory things that this

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Speaker 1: is the guy that I had heard. It was a

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Speaker 1: single guy who was who was a carpenter by trade,

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Speaker 1: who was out for a jog. That's what I heard.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know where I I thought

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00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:59,760
Speaker 1: I read somewhere it was swimmers or a swim team

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Speaker 1: or thing. Yeah, but somebody well it was a swim

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00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:10,320
Speaker 1: achieve of carpenters. Yeah. Yeah, So he came by. He

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00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,520
Speaker 1: noticed that he noticed the scene, and he went over

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00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:16,399
Speaker 1: and checked and noticed that that Nils was injured, and

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Speaker 1: there appeared to be bodies in the tent. And he

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Speaker 1: might have noticed also his girlfriend lying next to him

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Speaker 1: on top of the tent. It is a tent covered

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Speaker 1: in blood, yeah, and as blood. So they cat He

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00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,200
Speaker 1: calls the police. Then word gets out around town. Espo

330
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Speaker 1: was not a really huge town. Uh work going around fast.

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Speaker 1: Everybody from Espo came out and started walking around through

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Speaker 1: the woods looking for clues or evidence or murder weapons um.

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00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,960
Speaker 1: And surprisingly the local police were okay with that. But

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Speaker 1: I guess it might be that they just didn't have

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00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:45,080
Speaker 1: a lot of resources on the police force, you know,

336
00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:47,800
Speaker 1: to actually call like combed through the woods themselves, so

337
00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:49,639
Speaker 1: they got the locals to do it and seem like

338
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:51,960
Speaker 1: this is something they deal with on a regular also,

339
00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,080
Speaker 1: and to that point, right that they would think, well,

340
00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,360
Speaker 1: clearly nobody from our community could have done this, so

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00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:01,000
Speaker 1: they wouldn't be trying to cover it up, so they

342
00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:05,960
Speaker 1: can help. That's fine, right, that innocent thought process. Yeah, yeah,

343
00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:07,760
Speaker 1: that is a that's a good point. You know, you

344
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:08,840
Speaker 1: want the first thing you want to do is get

345
00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:12,439
Speaker 1: on that combing team. You were the murder. Yeah, and

346
00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:16,000
Speaker 1: that is not uncommon. Yeah, that's not You can get

347
00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:18,520
Speaker 1: out there and coming through the woods looking for the

348
00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,280
Speaker 1: murder just like happened upon it and then just happened

349
00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,680
Speaker 1: and like not reported. Yeah. The police will started going

350
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:26,840
Speaker 1: through the personal effects of the victims and they found

351
00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:28,600
Speaker 1: that some of the some of the stuff was missing,

352
00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:32,760
Speaker 1: like the wallets and the swimsuits. Also Nils and Seppo

353
00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:35,879
Speaker 1: shoes were gone and the swimsuits. Maybe it can be

354
00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:38,879
Speaker 1: explained because I hear like bottom is very cold, and

355
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,280
Speaker 1: so maybe they weren't planning on swimming at all. Where

356
00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:46,240
Speaker 1: did I read something about Nils was talking. There's there's

357
00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:50,160
Speaker 1: some interview or there's some transcript of him talking about

358
00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:52,600
Speaker 1: the fact that I swear it was him. He had

359
00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:54,240
Speaker 1: gone down to the water, he was going to go

360
00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:58,880
Speaker 1: swim the hypnotism interview, and the other guy was fishing,

361
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,439
Speaker 1: and then he decided not to swim because it's so cold,

362
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:06,600
Speaker 1: which would mean that his swim gear had disappeared. Alternately, though,

363
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:10,440
Speaker 1: if he had gotten it wet, or if they had

364
00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:12,679
Speaker 1: gone swimming at all. You know, when I go swimming

365
00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,359
Speaker 1: at a lake, I lay my swim clothes out, like

366
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,359
Speaker 1: on the lake shore where it's sunniest and more missed,

367
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:20,760
Speaker 1: or hang from a branch, you know, yeah, something like

368
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,560
Speaker 1: that to dry. So if they had gone in and

369
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:25,320
Speaker 1: been like, well, I'm just kidding, it's way too cold,

370
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:27,639
Speaker 1: you take that thing off and lay it out to

371
00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,399
Speaker 1: dry somewhere, So that would also account for true. But

372
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,359
Speaker 1: I I mean most people do it close to camp. Yeah,

373
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,680
Speaker 1: that's true. And I'm sure they searched the shore. I mean,

374
00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:39,920
Speaker 1: you know, so you would think they would have found

375
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,360
Speaker 1: if they were laying around there, but they might they

376
00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,000
Speaker 1: just maybe they didn't bring any at all. And I

377
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,640
Speaker 1: I you talked about the shoes were missing. Yeah, okay,

378
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:50,600
Speaker 1: and what I know, those come up later on, and

379
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:52,720
Speaker 1: I just want to make sure people understand that the

380
00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:57,040
Speaker 1: shoes were missing, which is weird that we're definitely missing. Yeah,

381
00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:01,359
Speaker 1: so that's that's still kind of inexplicable. Yeah, that's really weird.

382
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,120
Speaker 1: Actually the wallets being gone my point of this being

383
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:07,359
Speaker 1: a robbery with a little murder throw until on the end.

384
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,399
Speaker 1: It's hard to say. But also they were eighteen and fifteen, respectively,

385
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,639
Speaker 1: so like it wouldn't be much. Yeah, you can't be

386
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,480
Speaker 1: that good of a motive. Motive. Yeah, and actually I

387
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:19,600
Speaker 1: have to admit I've only heard about the missing Wallace

388
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,560
Speaker 1: from one source. Again, this story is a little different

389
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:24,960
Speaker 1: everywhere you read it, and it's hard to I think

390
00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:28,280
Speaker 1: finish is hard. I know Google Translate has a really

391
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,520
Speaker 1: hard time with finish. We were talking about there's a

392
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,520
Speaker 1: really great with like a very as far as I

393
00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:40,080
Speaker 1: can tell, exhaustive Wikipedia article in Finnish about this, and

394
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,320
Speaker 1: you know, you tell, okay, Chrome translate this and you

395
00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:46,920
Speaker 1: do you get sentences where it's like the man's chin

396
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,520
Speaker 1: was afternoon and un rock like appearance, and it's like,

397
00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:52,760
Speaker 1: I don't know what that means. I'm sorry, I don't know,

398
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:54,840
Speaker 1: or you're trying to tell me right now. So there's

399
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:58,280
Speaker 1: there's that difficulty as well. Yeah, there's a uh. I

400
00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:03,119
Speaker 1: translated another out the Wicked finished page into into English

401
00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:04,639
Speaker 1: and I had a similar result. I was able to

402
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,240
Speaker 1: actually get some it was. It wasn't completely unintelligible, but

403
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,160
Speaker 1: it was that this one was about a double murder

404
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,000
Speaker 1: that happened the year before. Were not too far from

405
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:15,480
Speaker 1: like bottom Well, certainly not every sentence is that way,

406
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:17,400
Speaker 1: but there are some sentences where you're just like that.

407
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,480
Speaker 1: But I think that's part of the reason that every

408
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,240
Speaker 1: version in English that you read is a little different,

409
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:27,560
Speaker 1: because people are translating it themselves, either because they know

410
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,560
Speaker 1: some of the language or they're using a translation tool.

411
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:37,840
Speaker 1: And yeah, that must not be important, that's fine. Yeah,

412
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,159
Speaker 1: there's got to be somebody after who speaks both English

413
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,760
Speaker 1: and Finnish. I think there's a couple of them well,

414
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,080
Speaker 1: and I don't, but I I don't know finish well

415
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,960
Speaker 1: enough to know if it's you know, a partially tonal language,

416
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,720
Speaker 1: if there's some sort of well this word means something

417
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:55,280
Speaker 1: fiction with a certain inflection. And if it's all written,

418
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,480
Speaker 1: like all the transcripts are written, then like you're kind

419
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,439
Speaker 1: of just s O L that's that's true. Or if

420
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:02,879
Speaker 1: it was written wrong or the spelling was different, or

421
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 1: there was a dialect or you know, had bad handwriting,

422
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 1: also possible. Yeah, so those are all points Nielsen's separ

423
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:15,240
Speaker 1: Those shoes were finally found six hundred Yeah, they were found. Okay, Yeah,

424
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,680
Speaker 1: they were found six hundred south southwest of the campsite

425
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,040
Speaker 1: as the crow flies and almost eight hundred meters. If

426
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,000
Speaker 1: you walk on a path, how long would it take

427
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 1: me to walk that far? That's a kilometer and a half.

428
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:31,680
Speaker 1: So were's your quats to? What about a mile? Yeah?

429
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:33,800
Speaker 1: I mean actually I guess a little more than a

430
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:39,720
Speaker 1: mile ballpark mile round Yeah, yeah, not too far. It's

431
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 1: a long way to carry two pairs of shoes. I mean,

432
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 1: if you mean just one way, do you mean just

433
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 1: one way? It's just one way. That's that's a half mile.

434
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:49,639
Speaker 1: So you could do that. Yeah, yeah, you could do that,

435
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 1: like you know, seven or eight minutes probably way, but

436
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 1: maybe not as far as you want, Like it's through

437
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,960
Speaker 1: forest area, it's a path, so you know, you know

438
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 1: where they want to walk at barefoot? Probably not right, Yeah,

439
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 1: it's not necessarily walking walking at barefoot if the killer

440
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 1: picked these things up, right, But that's that's the point, right,

441
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 1: is that, Like it's unlikely that the boys would have

442
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:11,840
Speaker 1: been like, well, I'll just leave our shoes here and

443
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 1: walk barefoot back to can Proba. Yeah, highly unlikely, Okay,

444
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,359
Speaker 1: the sideswitch. I mean, if they left their campsite to

445
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:20,560
Speaker 1: go anywhere, I mean, they would have just gone down

446
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:22,919
Speaker 1: to the lake, right, I mean, and this was kind

447
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,639
Speaker 1: of way the south off the peninsula they were on.

448
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 1: Many many accosts of this mystery said that it was

449
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:33,560
Speaker 1: only Nills shirts shoes that were taken. But actually I

450
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,879
Speaker 1: got this from finished source, which and so well, and

451
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,679
Speaker 1: I've actually seen stuff about the shoes, both pairs of

452
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 1: shoes showing up in the coverage of the case against Nils,

453
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,720
Speaker 1: So I think that it's just been omitted from a

454
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 1: bunch of places. Yeah, but it's good, good, fine, yeah,

455
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 1: both Yeah, So both shoes were found, both sets of shoes,

456
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 1: and it was just by canvassing, right, Yeah, And they

457
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 1: weren't far off the path, It's like, but it wasn't

458
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 1: like nails. When he was under hypnosis or something said

459
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 1: oh and I know where our shoes right, No, yeah,

460
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 1: it was I think it was people walking around and

461
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,439
Speaker 1: they found them and I don't believe they had blood

462
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:16,120
Speaker 1: on them. Okay, so they were taken after the murders.

463
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,199
Speaker 1: That's one of the things about the whole Nils didn't thing.

464
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 1: That's just so weird to me. Huh, there's a lot

465
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,359
Speaker 1: of weirdness in that case. There's a lot of people

466
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 1: and for a lot of people with nails, is still

467
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 1: there number one guy, which is so weird. Yeah, well,

468
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 1: we'll talk more about that the cases gets Nils. But

469
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 1: but speaking of that hypnosis that we were talking about

470
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,239
Speaker 1: a minute ago, he did describe the attacker while he

471
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 1: was under said the attacker was midsized, with a round face,

472
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,119
Speaker 1: long blonde hair combed straight back. And I don't know

473
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,439
Speaker 1: if by long people had really long, because this is

474
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: Nix and people men had short hair back on those days,

475
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,160
Speaker 1: so long could have just man like, you know, kind

476
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,159
Speaker 1: of long ish. I'm not really sure that it was

477
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 1: a couple inches long, could have been long hair, Yeah,

478
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,479
Speaker 1: back in those days. He said. He had white teeth,

479
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: so that's good, a straight nose and kind of thick lips.

480
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 1: He had an acne on his forehead and cheeks and uh,

481
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 1: and of course he saw him through that big hole

482
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,880
Speaker 1: in the side of the tent. He also said under hypnosis,

483
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 1: said he tried to crawl out of the tent, and

484
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 1: he crawled out, and then the attacker kicked him in

485
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 1: the face. Yeah, Ki kicked him in the mouth, I think,

486
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 1: And I'm not sure if that was what broke his

487
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,400
Speaker 1: jar or not. He said, Yeah, there were some other

488
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,919
Speaker 1: weird things he said when he was under hypnosis. But

489
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 1: the thing about it is is, you know, you get

490
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: hit in the head, you get a concussion. I mean,

491
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 1: I could see. I don't have any faith that hypnosis

492
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 1: can really restore lost memories, say, if your brain has

493
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 1: suppressed them, I mean perhaps if you're going to suppress

494
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 1: them because of trauma, but if you're not physically supressed, yeah, yeah,

495
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: if you get bashed in the head and the face them,

496
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 1: well yeah, you're you're you're sustaining a small amount at

497
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 1: least of brain damage, and so I don't think you

498
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: can restore those memories. I really have big doubts about

499
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,919
Speaker 1: the whole hypnosis thing. It was under hypnosis that he

500
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 1: said the timeline right, that they had gone to bed

501
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 1: at ten thirty, and then he said they woke up

502
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,199
Speaker 1: and both the boys went down to the lake and

503
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: went fishing. Yeah, and then that was when he said, oh,

504
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 1: I was gonna go swimming, but I decided not to.

505
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,879
Speaker 1: And then he said, oh, and then we came back

506
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:23,160
Speaker 1: and we went to bed again. Yeah, So I don't

507
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 1: know if they be So I don't know if they

508
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,159
Speaker 1: just woke up because it was getting light out, or

509
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 1: it's entirely plausible that when the night is that short

510
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 1: that you take a three or four hour nap and

511
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 1: you get up for a little bit because you can't

512
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: sleep anymore, do something nothing puts you to sleep faster

513
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: than food in your belly, and then lay back down

514
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: and take a quick nap and try and get another

515
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 1: couple of hours. Yeah. I mean, obviously, uh, really early

516
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 1: in the morning was a good time to go fishing.

517
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 1: So and so it's entirely possible that he just woke

518
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 1: up because that, you know, But again, I don't trust

519
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 1: that he actually really truly remembered the stuff. It might

520
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: be people who are people can become really suggestible and

521
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 1: stuff under hypnosis, and it might have been that that's

522
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 1: what they planned on doing. Yeah, the night before, let's

523
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 1: get up at dawn and go fishing. And this actually

524
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 1: tells me probably what happened and who is guilty of

525
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 1: the whole thing. Who's that? Well, we all know that

526
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 1: the chupacabra likes to fish. It's really territory and it

527
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: does not like he does not competition, and he doesn't

528
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 1: like people intense either. That's true. So I think we

529
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 1: found our call. Think we have your Okay, Well, I

530
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 1: guess the rest of this is pointless, so you can

531
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: we'll just burden this. No, I will say, just to

532
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 1: the credit of the whole hypnosis thing, at least in

533
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: this case, I agree with you. I don't think that

534
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 1: it can. You know, if you sustain a concussion. No,

535
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're like suppressing childhood memories because they're bad.

536
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe maybe psychologically traumatic. Man, I'm just going to

537
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: say it again. Maybe maybe, but she's saying. I'm what

538
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 1: I'm saying is okay. Maybe, But I don't know. I

539
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 1: did read the interview that at least the translation of

540
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: the interview, and it did sound like the questions were

541
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 1: pretty straightforward as recorded. At least it was okay, so

542
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 1: tell me about that night, and then he would say

543
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:24,360
Speaker 1: some stuff and they'd say okay, and then what happened? Okay,

544
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 1: what looked like? What about his nose? What did his

545
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 1: nose look like? What? You know? Sounded it seemed pretty

546
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 1: straightforward at the very least they were. They were not

547
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 1: trying to plan any ideas in his head. No, but

548
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: there was there were sometimes where he would say I

549
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 1: don't know, and they'd say no, no, no, you know.

550
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: He'd be like, oh, you're right, I do know. Yeh see.

551
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 1: But the thing about it is he remembers things like

552
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 1: crawling out of the tent getting kicked in the face.

553
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 1: But the fact that he was found outside the tents

554
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:51,959
Speaker 1: and they had already told him, it's not like they

555
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: kept everything from him. You know that they told me.

556
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: You know you were you guys were all your friends

557
00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 1: were all beaten and stabbed death, and you were found

558
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 1: lying on top up with the tent with a concussion

559
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: and broken jaw. And so he is going to he's

560
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 1: gonna think he's gonna be thinking to himself well, I

561
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 1: must have crawled out of the tent during the attacks somehow,

562
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: and so I go he goes into hypnosis thinking that.

563
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: And so maybe he didn't crawl out of the tent.

564
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 1: Maybe the killer dragged him out of the tent. I mean, yeah,

565
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: I mean it's hard to say, but yeah, I think

566
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 1: he is just totally that hanging. Let's talk about some suspects.

567
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 1: Our first suspect was probably Luoma according to Google or

568
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 1: according to Wikipedia, he was an escape ee from a

569
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: work department nearby. And I'm not sure what a work

570
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: department is, crew like a chain gang sort of thing

571
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 1: or you know, work crew. So he'd probably have been

572
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: convicted of some crime. Um. But he caught up with

573
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: him pretty soon after the murders and they questioned about

574
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: the murders. But he had to happen to have an alibi.

575
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 1: And I really can't tell you why this guy is

576
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: even included on all the list of suspects that you

577
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: see out there in the web. Convict, convict nearby, But

578
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, the guy, the guy was on

579
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 1: a work crew. He obviously had not done anything too serious.

580
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: Yeah right, that's true. Yeah, probably according to Shawshank redemption

581
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: they would put anybody on the word on the chain

582
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 1: gang work crew. Well, and I also don't know how

583
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: the you know, the jail system works in Finland. There

584
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: are a lot of places in Europe that do, like

585
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: real actual rehability of punishment for crimes that you know,

586
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: end up in politics doesn't matter anyway, but they do

587
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: actually do, like they try to rehab. Probably a good

588
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 1: idea to try to rehab people. Probably not a great

589
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 1: idea to like lock them in isolation for years on end, now,

590
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: not really, Yeah, yeah, probably a good idea. Cats. Yeah,

591
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: let's go on to our next suspect. This guy has

592
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 1: panty sol un and that was better than I could do.

593
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 1: Petty pet He was a maintenance man. I don't know

594
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: if that meant he was a janitor, a guy who

595
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: worked on things or what he was in maintenance, He

596
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: maintained things, things that he'd been convicted of several violent

597
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 1: crimes in the nineties, in the late nineteen sixties and

598
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: about eight nine years after the murders, he was in

599
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 1: jail and he confessed to the murders then. And he

600
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: did happen to live near the side of the Light

601
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: Bottom murders at the time. They were committed, and they

602
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 1: interrogated him, but his confession was not given much weight

603
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 1: because he was really vague and cryptic, and some people

604
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 1: said that he was a psychopath. I also there was

605
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 1: a weird and again this maybe just kind of an

606
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 1: oddball translation thing, but I saw the cryptic description that

607
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: you were just given for in the vague and cryptic,

608
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 1: I also saw something in combination with that of when drunk.

609
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, ring around drugs. Yeah, well, a lot of

610
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: people are weird and cryptic when they're drunk, and that

611
00:31:53,920 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 1: what the heck does this mean? It's odd, it's cryptic. Yeah, yeah,

612
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: you know, I'm assuming that when they asked him, well, okay,

613
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: you killed him, why did you do it? And he

614
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 1: was like, well, i'll tell you. I had my reasons,

615
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 1: you know, something like that. I don't know. I know

616
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 1: they're dead, and I know they're buried close to the town. Yeah.

617
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: Yeah uh and as soon as my mother dies, i'll

618
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 1: tell you. Yeah. In nineteen sixty, he committed suicide by

619
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 1: hanging himself, and he did have a pretty lengthy criminal history.

620
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 1: But you know, it's hard to take this too seriously

621
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 1: because in nineteen sixty he would have been only fifteen,

622
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 1: so let's starting a little young. The same age as

623
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 1: the girls. Yeah, the same age as the girls and

624
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 1: boys are eighteen, and at that age, boys kind of

625
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 1: have a gross spur. And I can imagine that the

626
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 1: eighteen year old boys would have been a little more

627
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 1: powerful than him, but they could have gotten themselves unwrapped

628
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 1: from a tent. It's true. You know, if there's a

629
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 1: canvas pressing down on you and you're just woken from

630
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,040
Speaker 1: a slumber by something hitting you over the head, and

631
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 1: I don't know that, you're necessarily going to immediately be

632
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: like I can overpower you. You're going to be like

633
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: what is going on and flail a little bit and

634
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 1: then like get hit again and then you're done. Yeah,

635
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: he's going to be pinned in there. They're gonna be

636
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: pinned inside, and he's gonna be on top of them,

637
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 1: you know, the keys to to bash the two guys.

638
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 1: He didn't look like he was that or Nils didn't

639
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: look like he was that bit. Yeah, but he wasn't.

640
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 1: He wasn't bulky. Yeah, he was definitely just a tall guy. Yeah. Yeah. Also,

641
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: before we go any further, I just want to go

642
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: ahead and say how funny it is that while most murders,

643
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 1: you like struggle to find even like one viable suspect,

644
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 1: and in this one, you've got at least three people

645
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 1: who have admitted to it. Yeah. Yeah, well that's pretty

646
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 1: common thing. Yeah, it's common for like a bunch of

647
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 1: people to be like, oh, yeah, no, I totally did that. Yeah.

648
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: I know a lot of a lot of people confess

649
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 1: to crimes he didn't come in, especially if they're well

650
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: known notorious. Yeah. Remember we had conversation last week about

651
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 1: people saying I want to go down as X. Yeah,

652
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: but they never actually admit to it. They always kind

653
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,720
Speaker 1: of allude. But a lot of there's also this other

654
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 1: subclass who didn't do it, don't have the stones or

655
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: the capability to do it, but will claim they did

656
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 1: it so that maybe they can get recorded in history,

657
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 1: you know, to be remembered for knocking off at one

658
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,280
Speaker 1: guy and there's everybody who was involved. It's like, there's

659
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 1: no way he could have done that. He couldn't overpower

660
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 1: a fountain pen, but he's going to keep making the claim.

661
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 1: There you go. Yeah, I don't know anyway, It's funny, Yeah,

662
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 1: I know, I just it's funny. But I don't. I

663
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: don't know, I don't. I kind of doubt his story.

664
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people do this stuff because,

665
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 1: like I said, they want they want attention, they want

666
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,839
Speaker 1: to get their name of the papers. Yeah. So oh,

667
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 1: next up Valdemar Gilstrom. Yeah, he was one of the

668
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,360
Speaker 1: prime suspects. He ran a you asked, very close to

669
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: the murder side, like right in the park that that

670
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: was in. And I don't know what he sold in

671
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,240
Speaker 1: the kiosk. Could have been coffee, trinkets, I get the feeling.

672
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,280
Speaker 1: Is another way to say store. Yeah, like a little

673
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 1: tiny general store. Yeah, like they have at camps. Yeah,

674
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 1: they typically out there, they have stuff like that. You know,

675
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: people want to buy beer or pop or whatever. Right. Yeah,

676
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 1: but he had a reputation for being irascible, for hating

677
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: young people and campers and yeah, thinking the one who

678
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 1: just hated campers. I supposedly I heard another versions of that.

679
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 1: They hated campers, people who brought him business. He hated them. Yeah,

680
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 1: I don't. I experienced that in my job all the time.

681
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:41,799
Speaker 1: The people, the customers I deal with. I'm just like,

682
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 1: I hate you, I hate you, I hate you. But

683
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 1: oh my god, I have to deal with you. You

684
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:48,359
Speaker 1: do too, I know you talked about all the time

685
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 1: what you're saying that. Yeah. Also there were some kids

686
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 1: that kids at knew him. Was said he was like

687
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 1: me to them and strow rocks at them when when

688
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 1: they rode by on their bikes at night. Stuff. So

689
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 1: it was kind of a Yeah. This guy also committed

690
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 1: suicide in nineteen sixty nine, interestingly enough, Yeah, there's a

691
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 1: big wave of suicides. Actually, I think I think Finland

692
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 1: has a pretty high suicide right. I'm guessing it's the

693
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 1: daylight cycle that with people might have something to do

694
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 1: the hair. Yeah, I don't think that's actually, yeah, his

695
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 1: story is that why why he's believed to be a

696
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:25,279
Speaker 1: suspect is just because of his personality, but also in

697
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:29,280
Speaker 1: the late nineteen sixties, um he confessed apparently was drunk,

698
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: but he confessed to his neighbor that he had committed

699
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 1: the murders. He confessed more than once, didn't he I think? So, Yeah,

700
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: what else did he do that was suspicious? He had

701
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 1: a well on his property and he filled in a

702
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 1: well on the property a few days after the murders.

703
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 1: And is that suspicious? Well, because I thought the thought

704
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 1: is that is that he threw the murder weapons down

705
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 1: to the bottom of the well, then filled the well

706
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:54,800
Speaker 1: in the rocks, had the or the pipe, the pipe

707
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 1: and the knife or the rock and the knife, and

708
00:36:56,360 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 1: then fill it in. Well's idea. Okay, I admit I

709
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 1: didn't take the time to actually look at the village.

710
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 1: And I'm guessing you did this show on the map. Uh.

711
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 1: I did, but I didn't find his house or anything. Well,

712
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm trying to get an ideas. I'm guessing

713
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 1: that everybody had their own well to pull water, but

714
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 1: I'm guessing that well was rather old. And just because

715
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 1: it's a well doesn't mean it's a super deep well

716
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 1: and a very good well. People are all the time

717
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 1: like this well. You know, it's sucks half the time,

718
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 1: it doesn't work. I'm just gonna fill it in. Well.

719
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 1: I would be interested to find out if he had

720
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 1: had plans to do that before any of this ever

721
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 1: took place. Well, that's the whole thing is, by by

722
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 1: this time, I'm sure there was a municipal water system

723
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 1: in the town. Sure, and so was there. No, there

724
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:47,399
Speaker 1: was no need, no need for the well, which, let's

725
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 1: be honest, according to Timmy, the wells are dangerous, is

726
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 1: always in the well? Yeah, that's true. I guess my

727
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 1: suspicious brain is like, but maybe like two days after

728
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 1: a murder happened right near your place before, Hey, life

729
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: goes on right, not for everyone. I'm sorry. My vacation

730
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 1: was planned and I'm taking my vacation And it's not

731
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 1: my fault that those dumb kids got themselves killed. I

732
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 1: got stuff to do. Well. He might have had a

733
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 1: schedule too, he might have had a work crew can

734
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 1: do it, and he might have had he might have

735
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 1: had somebody deliver a bunch of dirt to him. Yeah,

736
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: you know, and because he had, he had to get

737
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 1: dirt from somewhere, dirt, gravel, rocks, whatever. Yea. So maybe

738
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 1: that that delivery showed up and you know, on the

739
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 1: scheduled day. And man, so it's hard to say about

740
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:33,840
Speaker 1: if that really means much of anything. And frankly, you

741
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 1: know a lot of people are all puzzled that the

742
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 1: police didn't dig up the well, because everybody's saying, well,

743
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 1: he filled it in, the weapons must be down there,

744
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 1: but you know the police didn't do that, and people

745
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 1: were wondering, well, why didn't they? And I frankly, what

746
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 1: kind of a bone head with stashes murder weapons on

747
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 1: his own property. I actually a lot of them. Yeah,

748
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: maybe just have them barry remains on their property. I mean, yeah,

749
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 1: I know there is that. My guy. One of the

750
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 1: most famous ones was a guy who murders his room

751
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 1: and chopped the body up so he could fit it

752
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,720
Speaker 1: into a garbage can, and then he put the garbage

753
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 1: can in his storage hit. Yeah, and then you heard

754
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 1: the story. Yeah, and then he didn't pay the rent. Yes,

755
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 1: apparently forgot to pay the rag or something, and oh

756
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:19,800
Speaker 1: my god, what a bonehead. But anyway, I just don't

757
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:21,879
Speaker 1: think that he would take the weapons all the way

758
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:24,399
Speaker 1: back to his house and fill in the well when

759
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 1: he could so easily throw them in the lake or

760
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 1: just toss him off into the word. You know. It

761
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 1: might have been his favorite knife, and he may have

762
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 1: not realized what a what a stir the whole thing

763
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 1: was going to make and then panicked. I mean, that's

764
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 1: a reason that he would have. I know, I'm bouncing

765
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:42,320
Speaker 1: both sides of this, but that's the reason why a

766
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 1: guy would throw it in there. Yeah, I don't know.

767
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 1: I guess for me, this is the one of the confessions.

768
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,879
Speaker 1: That kind of does it for me. All Right, you're

769
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: convicted of a lot of stuff, you're in jail, you're

770
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 1: like bragging into your friends and jail You're like, oh, yeah, no,

771
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 1: I I totally killed those kids. Yeah. This guy like

772
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 1: said it to his neighbors when he was drunk one day. Like,

773
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 1: that's a weird thing to say, knowing that the cops

774
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 1: might come after you at any point and throw you

775
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 1: in jail for the rest of your life, even though

776
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 1: you were an otherwise upstanding citizen, because you said drunk

777
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 1: one night, like, yeah, actually I killed those citizen a jerk.

778
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 1: He does sound like a jerk, But I'm just saying like,

779
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 1: he wasn't in other he wasn't otherwise in trouble with

780
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 1: the law, he wasn't already serving a life sentence. So

781
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 1: for him to just off handedly say, oh, yeah, I

782
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: did that, that's weird to me. I don't think he

783
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 1: did it. I agree, But that of the admissions is

784
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: the one that gets me. It's like, why would you

785
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 1: let's like me just saying to you guys, oh yeah,

786
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 1: I kidnapped this kid. Why why would I say that

787
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 1: to you? Like people do weird stuff When they're blind drunk, though,

788
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 1: stuff comes out. You know how many guys in bars

789
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 1: have told you how they were like they were like

790
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: you know, Green berets and Navy seals. Yeah, and you

791
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 1: can tell that they haven't theirs. That's a little different,

792
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 1: totally different, that that kind of talk is not going

793
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 1: to land you in jail. Yeah, yeah, but that's exactly

794
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 1: what both of these are to me talk. Yeah, that's fair. Again.

795
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 1: I don't know how the police he originally came to

796
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 1: their attention, but they did search his house, but not

797
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 1: the well. His wife gave him an alibi, and so

798
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: they crossed him off the list, And after his death,

799
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 1: his wife said that she had threatened to kill her

800
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 1: if she ever backslid on the alibi thing. So I

801
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 1: really don't know. I find it hard to believe. I

802
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 1: don't I don't really see a motive there. I mean, sure,

803
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 1: he hates young people in campers, but it's a pretty

804
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 1: brutal attack. One of the girls was stabbed like eleven

805
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:47,800
Speaker 1: times or something like a lot of times. It wasn't

806
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,399
Speaker 1: just like, oh oops, I hit this one kid over

807
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:51,879
Speaker 1: the head with a rock and now I got into

808
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,399
Speaker 1: the rest of them in it was like you say

809
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 1: that as if you'd that out, like, whoops, no, but

810
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 1: the how don't remember which one it was, but she

811
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 1: was hit over the head and that killed her and

812
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 1: then even though she was dead. Yeah, so yeah, that's

813
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 1: pretty brutal. Yeah, that's that. I agree. There's no I

814
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 1: don't see the motive there. Yeah, I don't quite get it. Then,

815
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 1: of course, you know, I didn't know the guy our

816
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 1: next Our next suspect is a guy named Hans asked Man. Yeah,

817
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,799
Speaker 1: YouTube joker. That was the only reason I was like,

818
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:29,440
Speaker 1: I don't really want to talk about this story, but

819
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 1: I get to say ask man. Assuming that it's not

820
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:36,840
Speaker 1: how his name is pronounced. I assume it was pronounced Austin,

821
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 1: but I don't know exactly from Austin. Yeah, you ruining

822
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 1: our fun. Austin actually might not have been his original name.

823
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:49,879
Speaker 1: There was one story out there that I think told

824
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 1: by him that he's stolen a German still another officer

825
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 1: or another German soldier's name. So let's talk about him

826
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,840
Speaker 1: because interesting. Well yeah, okay, so he was a German

827
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 1: who claimed that he had served in the SS in

828
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,839
Speaker 1: World War Two, and then after a year in the SS,

829
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 1: he served as a guard in Auschwitz. So just a

830
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:12,720
Speaker 1: real nice guy, really really good, nice, good good CV.

831
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 1: Apparently later he fell out of favor. He was dating

832
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 1: a Jewish girl and so fell out of favor for

833
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 1: that reason and was sent to the Eastern Front, where

834
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:24,719
Speaker 1: he was captured by the Soviets and sent to a

835
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 1: prison camp. And at some point and during his Soviet experience,

836
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: he decided to become a KGB spy. How much of

837
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:33,799
Speaker 1: this is true, I don't know, because we only have

838
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: his word for it, and it doesn't sound like the

839
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 1: movie plot of James Bond at all. Yeah, I know, so,

840
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 1: I It's it's amazing out there how many people say that,

841
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 1: just you know, on web pages and stuff, just say

842
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,959
Speaker 1: he was a KGB spy or suspected KGB spy, when

843
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:49,880
Speaker 1: I can't think of a single reason to believe he

844
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:52,840
Speaker 1: was a KGB spy one he wasn't, even if he

845
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 1: wasn't even a Russian. The only reason that I ever

846
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 1: saw that seemed even remotely plausible is that people thought

847
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:01,319
Speaker 1: that the reason he hadn't not really been investigated was

848
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 1: because the Finnish government was scared of him actually being

849
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 1: a KGB spy. That they like did preliminary inquiries and

850
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 1: it was revealed that, you know, the KGB was like, hey, actually,

851
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 1: don't look into him. And they were like, okay, yep, no,

852
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 1: you got it, no problem, We're not going to do

853
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 1: anything about it. That was the only like even vaguely

854
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:23,360
Speaker 1: reasonable that I could find. I have not heard anything

855
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:25,319
Speaker 1: credible out there about this at all. The saying a

856
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 1: little thing. I don't. I don't think they're that terrified

857
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 1: of the Russians. I mean, obviously they've been finlandized. You

858
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 1: don't know what that means. But they so that's sort

859
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,840
Speaker 1: of not exactly what the sway of the Sylvius, but

860
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 1: they kind of do what you know. Of course, Frankly,

861
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,799
Speaker 1: if I were asking questions and the KGB was like, hey,

862
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 1: actually stop asking that, even though I'm like an American citizen,

863
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 1: I would be like, no, yep, no, you got it.

864
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:50,239
Speaker 1: Probably probably yeah, because yeah, they've got a long they've

865
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:52,359
Speaker 1: got the long arm. Of course, of course they're all

866
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 1: gone now, well, some of them were still around, and

867
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:57,399
Speaker 1: one of them to charge of the Russia. Doesn't charge

868
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 1: of Russia right now. But anyway, back to her story

869
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 1: in the nineteen fifties, I believe it was the nineteen

870
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: fifty three Auesoman moved to Finland and he was a

871
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 1: saspect and a couple of other unstal murders there, what

872
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 1: you guys, I'm sure we've heard about. There was Ali Sorry,

873
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 1: was a seventeen year old girl who disappeared in May

874
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty three, riding her bicycle home late one night.

875
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 1: Her body was found five months later, and it appeared

876
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 1: that she had been killed by a blow to the

877
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: head with a blood object. Sounds familiar, Yeah, kind of

878
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:31,800
Speaker 1: kind of dust, doesn't it. Awesoman later confessed in his

879
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 1: deathbed that he and another guy had accidentally run over

880
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:36,279
Speaker 1: a girl on a bicycle and killed her and then

881
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:40,439
Speaker 1: disposed of the body and the bicycle death confession. Yeah, well,

882
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 1: and and so the problem that I have with that

883
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 1: is that I looked into this particular case and then

884
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 1: when they found the bicycle, the bicycle, the whoever had

885
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 1: it had taken it out into like a swamp, a

886
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 1: swampy kind of area and put it in water, deflated

887
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 1: the tire so it would sink, and then, of course,

888
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 1: you know, months later, when the watered level dropped, the

889
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,239
Speaker 1: bike was out. The micro sound and when they when

890
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 1: they pulled it out, the bicycle, Um, and this was

891
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:11,240
Speaker 1: the bicycle that this girl who had been murdered was riding.

892
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:14,280
Speaker 1: The bicycle that she was riding, and it was identified

893
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:17,920
Speaker 1: as herve bicycle was in perfect condition, I mean except

894
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:19,880
Speaker 1: for except for a little bit yeah russ and stuff

895
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 1: like that. But it wasn't bent and mangled like it

896
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,719
Speaker 1: would have been. It also would it would surprise me

897
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 1: that you could hit somebody with the car and the

898
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 1: cause of death would be blunt force trauma to the

899
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 1: head without any other damage, right, exactly, That's what it

900
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:36,799
Speaker 1: sounds like over the head. And that was it, Yeah, exactly, yeah,

901
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 1: and so and so either it sounds like he might

902
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 1: have actually run over a girl on a bicycle. Apparently

903
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 1: they ran over this girl and a girl on a bicycle,

904
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:48,839
Speaker 1: and he his friend hid the bicycle and the body

905
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:51,919
Speaker 1: well still could be hidden, I mean you know, I mean, yeah,

906
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 1: it might just be an entirely different girl on a bike.

907
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:59,319
Speaker 1: So uh. And then the other murder that Ausbond was

908
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 1: was just back and I'm not sure why, but this

909
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 1: happen in July, and two young women were camping next

910
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 1: to a lake. Does that sound familiar and yeah, yeah,

911
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 1: and uh, and they were murdered, one with the blown

912
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 1: object and one with a knife. Is that sound familiar, Yeah,

913
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 1: but the yeah, them was a little different though. Their

914
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 1: bodies were taken away and hidden into marsh, hidden pretty

915
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 1: carefully because it took a long time to find them,

916
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 1: and all their stuff, including their bicycles or bicycles by

917
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 1: the way, were submerged in water with the tires deflated,

918
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:34,760
Speaker 1: just like the girl back in. Yeah. Well, I guess

919
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:37,280
Speaker 1: because I see where you're going with this, right, You're saying,

920
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 1: like the m is different, Well, it is, But it's

921
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 1: also not unreasonable to think these two boys kind of happened,

922
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 1: right the first two boys that they saw the motorcycles

923
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:50,799
Speaker 1: and they thought, oh, let's go over there, and then

924
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:53,240
Speaker 1: they saw a man like walking away from the site.

925
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 1: It's not unreasonable to say that like the murderer was interrupted. Yeah,

926
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:00,360
Speaker 1: that like in my head, then he was in the

927
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 1: middle of dragging people out to take them to the

928
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:05,880
Speaker 1: marsh or wherever, and that he was like, Oh, I

929
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 1: hear people coming, I'm just gonna walk away like a

930
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 1: normal human being and maybe they won't suspect anything, and

931
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 1: just had to abandon the scene and not do the

932
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 1: things he would normally do. Yeah, that's that's entirely possible.

933
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:18,720
Speaker 1: I think that, and I was gonna sit I suspect

934
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 1: that might be the case. Although the timing is a

935
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 1: little off though, because they only succeeded in getting their wallets,

936
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:30,399
Speaker 1: swimsuits in their shoes but hiding them. But you would

937
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:32,719
Speaker 1: think that he would even though it doesn't get completely

938
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:36,840
Speaker 1: dark the between sunset and sunrise, that's when more people

939
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:38,359
Speaker 1: are going to be home in bed and not out

940
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:41,319
Speaker 1: hiking around the park area. So you think he wanted

941
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:43,720
Speaker 1: to want to kill them like a ten thirty eleven o'clock,

942
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 1: and then he'd have all night to dispose of all

943
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 1: their stuff if it were premeditated. Certainly if he were

944
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 1: just out on a walk, and people being out and

945
00:48:56,120 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 1: about on a walk gives me the impression that likely,

946
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 1: if their wallets are gone and this random person is

947
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,360
Speaker 1: in the killer, this random guy is just a thief

948
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 1: who's gotten no scruples. Yeah, guess they don't need that's

949
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:18,280
Speaker 1: also not it's not unlikely that that happened as well,

950
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 1: but that would be I guess my argument for the

951
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:24,400
Speaker 1: It seems like you can explain the fact that they

952
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 1: weren't submerged in March March, that he had just been

953
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 1: interrupted and decided to not return. That would be the

954
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:31,919
Speaker 1: smart thing to do. You walk away and you don't

955
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:33,440
Speaker 1: come back to try and finish it. You just say,

956
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 1: all right, that's it. Well you remember remember this too,

957
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 1: is that the two girls on who are who were

958
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:41,960
Speaker 1: actually who are hit or who were murdered on this

959
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 1: I don't know, And all this stuff was taken away

960
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:45,759
Speaker 1: and hidden away they found they found it scattered all

961
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 1: around in the woods. So he could have been mid process. Yeah,

962
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 1: it could have been. And also, uh, it's it's entirely

963
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 1: possible that this guy comes along and he hasn't actually

964
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:56,879
Speaker 1: sees his tents. That's a small pup tent, sees two

965
00:49:56,920 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 1: motorcycles leading inst treat. I think there's a guy and

966
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 1: girl probably or maybe two guys, who knows, but it

967
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 1: thinks it's just two people. He thinks the cleanup process

968
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:07,239
Speaker 1: is going to be simpler and easier than what it

969
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 1: actually turned out to be. Yeah, and so it might

970
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 1: have bead. I mean, it's that the crimes are very

971
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 1: similar in many ways. Are the only thing that I mean,

972
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 1: you're you're tying the murder of these two women together,

973
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:24,840
Speaker 1: and the girl, the one who Osmond said he hit. No,

974
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm not necessarily tying her murder together. One

975
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:30,360
Speaker 1: of the things that you said that was similarities was

976
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:34,000
Speaker 1: the deflated bike tires. Yeah, the way Joe had said

977
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:37,440
Speaker 1: it, it it kind of sounded like the deflated tires was

978
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:40,840
Speaker 1: a key link between them, and I just not not.

979
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 1: I don't think that that's it came that way to me,

980
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:47,839
Speaker 1: And I was like, I don't think that's a good okay,

981
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 1: we're golden. Yeah that you know, I'm thinking that that

982
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:53,320
Speaker 1: case is a little more random than this one that

983
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:55,320
Speaker 1: happened that this one that happened with two women that

984
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 1: happened not that far north northeast, really, and it's a

985
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,040
Speaker 1: similar Demokay, Like I said, he may he may have

986
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:06,280
Speaker 1: been interrupted at the same time, could have been totally

987
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 1: every later time Osmond, he didn't he like show up

988
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 1: in a hospital that morning, Well, yeah, the day after

989
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 1: the murders, Osman went to the Helsinki Surgical Hospital And

990
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 1: I don't know why. And this is again one of

991
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:25,799
Speaker 1: the frustrating things about this is if I could if

992
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 1: I could read some finish, then I could probably get

993
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:30,359
Speaker 1: a little more detail on exactly what purpose he had

994
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 1: in showing up. But his claimed the doctor's claimed that

995
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 1: his behavior was odd, that he tried to lie about

996
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:39,239
Speaker 1: his name, tried to give a fake name, and his

997
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:41,600
Speaker 1: fingernails were black and I don't know if that means

998
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:43,879
Speaker 1: that they were bruised, or if they had dirt under

999
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:47,440
Speaker 1: the fingernails or exactly what. And there were red stains

1000
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 1: on his clothes. And he was also reported the aggressive

1001
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:55,840
Speaker 1: and nervous. Um my favorite detail on that. That sentence

1002
00:51:55,960 --> 00:52:00,799
Speaker 1: always reads throughout the internet through translations everything. Um, he

1003
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:05,400
Speaker 1: pretended to be unconscious, Yeah, but he was actually aggressive

1004
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,920
Speaker 1: and nervous, which is so here to me. I left that.

1005
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:11,680
Speaker 1: I left it because that was so nonsensical. I totally

1006
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 1: left that out. Gonscious. It's like, I mean, really, but

1007
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 1: that's like, that's like playing possum. Even wouldn't surprise me

1008
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 1: that much that he would show up, you know, in

1009
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:25,440
Speaker 1: this kind of disheveled state and be like really nervous

1010
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 1: and kind of aggressive, and you know, somebody would come

1011
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:29,400
Speaker 1: in to question him and he'd just be like, no,

1012
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 1: I'm unconscious, No, I can't answer your question, No, I'm

1013
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:36,719
Speaker 1: not responsive, it's fine, And then you know, they would like,

1014
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:38,759
Speaker 1: you know, poke him or something, and he'd go, oh,

1015
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:41,840
Speaker 1: I mean no, I'm unconscious. Have you ever seen anybody

1016
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 1: trying to pretend to be It doesn't work out. I

1017
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 1: see people seriously trying to pull it off. It is

1018
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 1: so bad, so funny. Yeah, anyways, I just thought we

1019
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:53,880
Speaker 1: should add that because it's hilarious. It is. Yeah, I

1020
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:56,360
Speaker 1: think it's funny too. The but these are some of

1021
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:58,839
Speaker 1: the reasons people like him as a suspect. Because he's

1022
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:01,920
Speaker 1: all covered in red stuff and everything. And also he

1023
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 1: had blonde hair that was a little bit, a little

1024
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,719
Speaker 1: bit long, ash like the murderer. And after the description

1025
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:09,920
Speaker 1: of the murderer made the news because of the hypnosis

1026
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:12,719
Speaker 1: and also the two the two kids that saw him,

1027
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:16,040
Speaker 1: that saw the murder from behind everything, he uh, he

1028
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:21,400
Speaker 1: cut his hair. Yeah, yeah right. The news started reporting

1029
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:24,040
Speaker 1: the description of the guy they were looking for, and

1030
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 1: Osman immediately was like, ah, I'm going to cut all

1031
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 1: my hair, cut my blonde locks off for no reason,

1032
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 1: in particular because I'm board of it. Yeah yeah. Next

1033
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 1: next on the list of damning damning neils in his coffin. Uh,

1034
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:45,400
Speaker 1: he lived within three kilometers of Lake Bottom. Yeah, and

1035
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 1: didn't his clothes also led the clothes that he showed

1036
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:49,880
Speaker 1: up at the hospital, weren't they very similar to the

1037
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 1: clothes that they described him in supposedly? Yeah, And I'm

1038
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:55,920
Speaker 1: not sure if that If that's the description of the

1039
00:53:56,719 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 1: clothes that he was wearing that day, looked like the

1040
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:02,719
Speaker 1: clothes that were described by Nils under hypnosis or by

1041
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 1: the boys, Yeah, And I had no idea. I think

1042
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:10,359
Speaker 1: actually I read in the transcript of the hypnosis questioning

1043
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:15,839
Speaker 1: Nils did describe that those clothes, but I never saw

1044
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 1: anywhere if the boys had described that, it would be

1045
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:22,399
Speaker 1: interesting to see if they described them differently. But um,

1046
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:26,520
Speaker 1: but Nils described it was like being dark, like wearing

1047
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 1: a dark sweater, like a dark plaid sweater, I think

1048
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 1: a dark sweater or a sweater with spots or patterns

1049
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:33,319
Speaker 1: or something like that. So it's hard to see how

1050
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:35,239
Speaker 1: how blood would really show up on that very well

1051
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:39,759
Speaker 1: at all. So and also, by the way, blood when

1052
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 1: it dries, it turns brown, so it's not red. Yeah,

1053
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:46,920
Speaker 1: I know. And also if those red stains on Osmin's

1054
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:49,920
Speaker 1: clothes were actually blood, then why did he walk away

1055
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:52,560
Speaker 1: more than why did you walk around more than twenty

1056
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:56,400
Speaker 1: four hours wearing a blood stained shirt? Because he was crazy.

1057
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 1: Crazy showed up and he seemed like very mentally disturbed.

1058
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 1: I was going to say, he's not necessarily crazy as

1059
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:07,359
Speaker 1: much as he was playing with chemicals in some way,

1060
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:09,399
Speaker 1: shape or form. There's a lot of chemicals that turn

1061
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:12,680
Speaker 1: your fingernails black. For the only one, the one that

1062
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 1: comes up to mind is like, um, developing film photography

1063
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:20,560
Speaker 1: people you know you do their photography people when you're

1064
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:24,759
Speaker 1: developing film. You know, it's it's a known thing. I

1065
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:28,480
Speaker 1: think it's the silver or the nitritic camera what it is,

1066
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:31,200
Speaker 1: but it does that. But there's also chemicals that you

1067
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:34,359
Speaker 1: can splash on yourself that come out different colors, and

1068
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:37,520
Speaker 1: you're not supposed to be huffing those things. But he

1069
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:45,920
Speaker 1: could have been doing something on chemicals. And the official

1070
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:49,920
Speaker 1: report they interviewed his because he had an alibi that

1071
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:53,239
Speaker 1: was okay. His alibi was either that he was with

1072
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:57,560
Speaker 1: his girlfriend or he was with his girlfriend's sister. But

1073
00:55:57,120 --> 00:56:00,120
Speaker 1: the landlords also said, oh, yeah, I know he is

1074
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:02,920
Speaker 1: totally here. And then they said, but he woke up

1075
00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:05,759
Speaker 1: really early to paint something red. That's why he had

1076
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:09,000
Speaker 1: splashes of red all over him. Yeah, I mean, you

1077
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:11,759
Speaker 1: know again, it was more than twenty four hours after

1078
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:15,919
Speaker 1: the merger. It's just still that weirdness of like, why

1079
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:17,840
Speaker 1: did he show up? Why was he at the hospital.

1080
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:21,239
Speaker 1: I'm more inclined to go with Steve's theory of like

1081
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:24,799
Speaker 1: playing with chemicals, and because he was not feeling good,

1082
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:27,239
Speaker 1: he would explain some of the mental thing. Would you

1083
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:30,080
Speaker 1: explain the erratic behavior. They explained the colors to the

1084
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:35,080
Speaker 1: red colored shirt too. And as far as this cutting

1085
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:37,520
Speaker 1: his hair, that's not that suspicious because a lot of

1086
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:41,319
Speaker 1: people get haircuts. I guess the way I understood it

1087
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:45,720
Speaker 1: in the storytelling was that like he heard somebody talking

1088
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:48,799
Speaker 1: about this is what the killer looked like, and thought, ah,

1089
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:50,799
Speaker 1: I betta cut my hair. It wasn't just like a

1090
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:54,279
Speaker 1: random getting your hair cut situation. I don't know. I'm

1091
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:56,000
Speaker 1: sure there's a lot of people who do that who

1092
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:59,960
Speaker 1: are kind of shady. Better not looked like that dude,

1093
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:03,719
Speaker 1: Yeah my head, well exactly. Yeah, and he does look

1094
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 1: like a crazy person. Oh he does a little bit,

1095
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:12,800
Speaker 1: and uh yeah yeah, and supposedly awesome confess to the

1096
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:15,640
Speaker 1: murders on his deathbed. According to a finished guy that

1097
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 1: I saw and Reddit. Yeah, but I don't know if

1098
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:21,920
Speaker 1: he's maybe confusing that confession about the confession about running

1099
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:23,720
Speaker 1: the girl over on the bike. I don't know that

1100
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:27,640
Speaker 1: read it was a bit confusing. Yeah, okay, so much

1101
00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:33,880
Speaker 1: for ask Man. I think that I don't really think

1102
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:38,120
Speaker 1: that this guy is a strong suspect. You guys know, Yeah,

1103
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:41,760
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess he's appealing, I think for me,

1104
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 1: like of the suspects, yes, yeah, but I don't think

1105
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 1: any of them are good. No, not really, and especially

1106
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:53,280
Speaker 1: the next one. The next one. Yeah, here's our last suspect,

1107
00:57:54,400 --> 00:58:01,440
Speaker 1: Nils Gustafson, the survivor loan survivor. Yeah, four years almost

1108
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:03,680
Speaker 1: fourth year, almost forty four years after the murders. He

1109
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 1: was arrested in two thousand four and put on trial

1110
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:11,560
Speaker 1: for the murders. The prosecution's theory was that he became

1111
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:15,920
Speaker 1: jealous of Irmani, of Irmali and Seppo and erupted into

1112
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:19,480
Speaker 1: rage and that probably fueled by booze. Apparently apparently they

1113
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:24,240
Speaker 1: were drinking they did. Yeah. Their theory is that Irmalley

1114
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 1: was stabbed fifteen times, which was many, many more times

1115
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 1: than the others. Were stabbed, and that the sexual jealousy

1116
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 1: and rage could have could have could have explained that. Uh.

1117
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:39,160
Speaker 1: And then the prosecution also theorized that Niel's injuries were

1118
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:41,960
Speaker 1: probably sustained in the struggle with the others, probably especially

1119
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:46,439
Speaker 1: with Seppo. Uh. He probably Seppo bashed un John broke

1120
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:48,800
Speaker 1: his jaw and you know when somebody else hit him

1121
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:50,760
Speaker 1: with a rock and everything, but he managed to prevail

1122
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:55,080
Speaker 1: with a knife and kill everybody they were intent. Yeah,

1123
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 1: apparently there there was some blood in DNA evidence and

1124
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:00,760
Speaker 1: stuff that gave them reason to believe it was Nils. Weird.

1125
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:03,480
Speaker 1: He was bleeding all over because he had been knocked

1126
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:06,080
Speaker 1: in the head and his DNA happened to be all over.

1127
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:08,880
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know exactly what their evidence was

1128
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:13,040
Speaker 1: because because they never found the weapons, right, he found

1129
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:15,520
Speaker 1: his fingerprints on the handle of the knife, like the scene,

1130
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:18,040
Speaker 1: but like, what are they talking about? And for forty

1131
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:21,440
Speaker 1: some fifty years now people have been going into the

1132
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 1: Lake us In searching for the weapons metal detectors and

1133
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:28,400
Speaker 1: I was just digging around in it. Yeah, though I

1134
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:31,240
Speaker 1: would not expect if it was a rock that was

1135
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:34,000
Speaker 1: a blown instrument. Probably that's in the lake. Oh yeah, yeah,

1136
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:36,440
Speaker 1: it's in the lake. But but then why would you

1137
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:37,880
Speaker 1: throw it in the lake? It would be too easy

1138
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 1: to find. I guess like more than that, right, Like

1139
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:44,360
Speaker 1: his injuries were the people who are touting this theory

1140
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:46,400
Speaker 1: say like he was minimally injured, Like, no, he was

1141
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 1: not minimally really severely injured. And then both of their

1142
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:53,960
Speaker 1: shoes were over. You know the fact that the shoes

1143
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 1: in the Waltons missing, just the shoes at the in

1144
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:00,800
Speaker 1: the end, really all you have to use as the shoes.

1145
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:03,800
Speaker 1: They were so far away if he had been that injured,

1146
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 1: and then he had to have been that injured while

1147
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:09,160
Speaker 1: everyone was still alive, and then to bash all their

1148
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:11,720
Speaker 1: heads in and then stab somebody fifteen times and then

1149
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:14,600
Speaker 1: move the shoes and then pass out, like what. There

1150
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 1: was something like there was something about the prosecution's case

1151
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:21,720
Speaker 1: that they were sure he did it because there was

1152
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:25,920
Speaker 1: blood on his shoes, and I got the impression it

1153
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:30,240
Speaker 1: was bloody footprints in the site. But it just was

1154
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:34,480
Speaker 1: it's nonsensical to me that thing I saw, right, They

1155
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:36,680
Speaker 1: were like, oh, and then he gave himself those injuries.

1156
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:39,960
Speaker 1: It was like, no, Okay, I can actually I can

1157
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:44,960
Speaker 1: actually see a truthful on wacko doing that. Think about it,

1158
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:47,920
Speaker 1: how do you get yourself that hard and heads first

1159
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:50,760
Speaker 1: into a tree to break your jaw and then and

1160
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:55,040
Speaker 1: then find a rock, turn around and just dead man

1161
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:59,240
Speaker 1: fall into it. Would have found the rock there, then, well,

1162
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:03,480
Speaker 1: I'm us saying it's possible to do that. People have

1163
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:06,680
Speaker 1: done this weird crap before. It would be an amazing

1164
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:08,800
Speaker 1: active will have to be able to do something. He

1165
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:12,760
Speaker 1: would have to have been complete and total, cold blooded

1166
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:15,160
Speaker 1: nut job killer, and that probably would have come out

1167
01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:20,320
Speaker 1: in the last four years. Yeah, yeah, unless he's just

1168
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:24,000
Speaker 1: been taking it out on hapless hamsters. Yeah, I don't know,

1169
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:28,080
Speaker 1: but it's well, it's more than I don't buy it. Yeah,

1170
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:30,560
Speaker 1: now I don't either. But back yeah, back to the

1171
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 1: shoes though too. I mean, it couldn't possibly have been him,

1172
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:35,240
Speaker 1: because remember when he had no reason to take the

1173
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 1: shoes somewhere else and and not and by the way,

1174
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:41,320
Speaker 1: not hide them too terribly thoroughly because they were found

1175
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:45,439
Speaker 1: fairly readily. But then again, the problem was is that

1176
01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:47,880
Speaker 1: his whole story would have been I was knocked unconscious,

1177
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:51,600
Speaker 1: but people might have seen him walking to and from

1178
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:54,840
Speaker 1: this place. I mean, it was you know, it was

1179
01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:58,000
Speaker 1: about one point six kilometers around trip to go to

1180
01:01:58,040 --> 01:02:00,479
Speaker 1: this place where he left the shoes and walk back.

1181
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:03,320
Speaker 1: And even if he had he was keeping an eye

1182
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:05,320
Speaker 1: out for people. Uh, and just you know, he was

1183
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:07,760
Speaker 1: going to duck behind a tree if somebody showed up, Well,

1184
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:10,440
Speaker 1: somebody still might see you without you even knowing it.

1185
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:13,080
Speaker 1: So it's a huge risk. It's a huge risk to

1186
01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:15,680
Speaker 1: want to do this with the shoes. So I just

1187
01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:19,360
Speaker 1: don't think Nils was a murderer. And I think that, Yeah,

1188
01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:23,280
Speaker 1: bad theory. No, it's a really bad shame. I hadn't

1189
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:26,200
Speaker 1: wonder he didn't go through. Yeah, well he was acquitted

1190
01:02:26,240 --> 01:02:28,880
Speaker 1: in two thousand five and the Finnish government gave him

1191
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:32,280
Speaker 1: about forty five thousand euros in compensation for his period

1192
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:35,240
Speaker 1: of jail time. Yeah, it was probably wasn't enough. No,

1193
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:39,560
Speaker 1: not really. And I've got a few I've got one

1194
01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:43,400
Speaker 1: other possibility here, which is that there was, as I said,

1195
01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:46,760
Speaker 1: a similar killing just a year before, less than a year.

1196
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:50,080
Speaker 1: Was this a serial killer? But if if it was

1197
01:02:50,120 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 1: a serial killer, why did he stop moved on and

1198
01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:56,040
Speaker 1: moved on? Maybe he switched to just killing single people

1199
01:02:56,080 --> 01:02:58,440
Speaker 1: at a time, that kind of thing. Um, maybe he

1200
01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:02,760
Speaker 1: got run over by a bus transient labor. Yeah, he

1201
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:06,360
Speaker 1: moved on. You want to a different place. Yeah, you know,

1202
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:10,160
Speaker 1: if you just every year or so kill some local

1203
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:15,280
Speaker 1: and then shift on with the changing work tides, Yeah,

1204
01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:18,040
Speaker 1: nobody's gonna find you. I mean, that's how there's so

1205
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 1: many of them. Like the truckers. You stop because I

1206
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:24,160
Speaker 1: have to walk to my car. I gotta tell you

1207
01:03:24,160 --> 01:03:26,600
Speaker 1: one thing that that's entirely possible. This guy was a

1208
01:03:26,600 --> 01:03:28,800
Speaker 1: serial killer and he just changed his m Oh. Yeah.

1209
01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:30,880
Speaker 1: That's the thing about serial killers is that they have

1210
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:32,880
Speaker 1: a pattern, you know, and so pretty. But if you

1211
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:35,160
Speaker 1: what if you're a killer and you change your pattern

1212
01:03:35,240 --> 01:03:39,080
Speaker 1: every time, If your pattern is to change every time,

1213
01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:42,080
Speaker 1: that would be the hardest to track. Or your pattern

1214
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:45,919
Speaker 1: is right, this pattern of hide everything, and you get

1215
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:52,000
Speaker 1: caught halfway through like he did during this and realize, Oops,

1216
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:58,200
Speaker 1: that's not a great pattern. Let me do something else. Yeah. Maybe, yeah,

1217
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:00,520
Speaker 1: it could have been that, And Frank, I don't think.

1218
01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:02,640
Speaker 1: I don't know they would have what the point of

1219
01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:05,360
Speaker 1: hiding everything was. By the time these murders were committed

1220
01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:07,760
Speaker 1: to the Lake Bottom murders, and that they had pretty

1221
01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:11,000
Speaker 1: much found from the previous year. Those the murder of

1222
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:12,919
Speaker 1: those two women. They'd found the bodies, they had found

1223
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:15,200
Speaker 1: their bicycles, they had found most of their stuff in

1224
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:18,600
Speaker 1: the woods. So he had to have known that. There's

1225
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:21,360
Speaker 1: really kind of pointless. But yeah, I did take a

1226
01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:23,960
Speaker 1: year that that's that does retard the investigation. That's a

1227
01:04:23,960 --> 01:04:27,080
Speaker 1: good point. Yeah, but it could have been the same guy.

1228
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:29,680
Speaker 1: I don't know. But the shoes, the shoes are really

1229
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:34,960
Speaker 1: the killer clue here, I think, yeah, yeah, yeah, try

1230
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:40,960
Speaker 1: to be alright. No, I don't have anybody that I

1231
01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:44,120
Speaker 1: really I want to point a finger at now. I

1232
01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:46,640
Speaker 1: don't think, but I do think it's I'm pretty convinced

1233
01:04:46,680 --> 01:04:49,240
Speaker 1: that Nils did not do it. Definitely, not definitely. I'm

1234
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:51,840
Speaker 1: definitely in the camp he did not do it. Yeah. Yeah.

1235
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:53,800
Speaker 1: And so as for the rest of that, I think

1236
01:04:53,840 --> 01:04:57,520
Speaker 1: somebody got some pressure from up top to put a

1237
01:04:57,560 --> 01:04:59,920
Speaker 1: case together. Well, yeah, I don't know, I don't I

1238
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:03,560
Speaker 1: don't know what evidence the police have, you know, what

1239
01:05:03,640 --> 01:05:07,240
Speaker 1: DNA evidence they have that convinced them that Nils was guilty.

1240
01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:10,400
Speaker 1: But again, but it didn't, it didn't hold up in court.

1241
01:05:11,160 --> 01:05:14,919
Speaker 1: Obviously it was pretty weak evidence. Obviously it was insufficient. Yeah,

1242
01:05:15,080 --> 01:05:18,800
Speaker 1: so I think Nils was innocent. So anyway, that's about it.

1243
01:05:19,160 --> 01:05:23,280
Speaker 1: You guys asked for this. They wanted to hear us

1244
01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:26,400
Speaker 1: talk about a thing that we have nothing to add to. Actually,

1245
01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:28,480
Speaker 1: you know what Joe and I were talking about this earlier.

1246
01:05:28,520 --> 01:05:31,600
Speaker 1: I think I figured out why all of our top

1247
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:34,800
Speaker 1: stories are top stories is because we just didn't want

1248
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:38,720
Speaker 1: to do them, so they keep. You know, they all

1249
01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:43,640
Speaker 1: have a pretty common thread, which is there's just enough

1250
01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:48,160
Speaker 1: evidence to know what's going on, but there's not quite

1251
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:51,720
Speaker 1: enough evidence to pin down where it's going. And it's

1252
01:05:51,760 --> 01:05:57,920
Speaker 1: that perfect storm of information and lack of that just

1253
01:05:58,080 --> 01:06:00,800
Speaker 1: gets you the imagination going. And I'm because I've looked

1254
01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:02,360
Speaker 1: through the rest of the list after I figured this

1255
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:05,560
Speaker 1: out like that, Like that's that's why these are so popular.

1256
01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:10,640
Speaker 1: It's so easy to just lose yourself in the one

1257
01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:13,040
Speaker 1: if well, I have something to tell you, guys, Actually

1258
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:19,360
Speaker 1: I committed the Lake Bono murders. Is that the deal? Yeah?

1259
01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:21,360
Speaker 1: It's actually that you know that portrait I have in

1260
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:25,800
Speaker 1: my house that looks like an old lady. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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01:06:26,080 --> 01:06:27,680
Speaker 1: I've got one of those two and it didn't work

1262
01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:34,880
Speaker 1: for me. For me, actually two, the one of the

1263
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:41,280
Speaker 1: old lady looks like a space alien. All right, you guys,

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01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:43,320
Speaker 1: any final thoughts or should we wind this down? I

1265
01:06:43,360 --> 01:06:46,880
Speaker 1: think we're pointed up, sir. Okay, you're probably wondering if

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01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:48,720
Speaker 1: we have a website. Well, it turns out we do.

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01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:53,000
Speaker 1: It's called Taking Sideways podcast dot com. And you can

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01:06:53,720 --> 01:06:56,200
Speaker 1: listen to episodes to check our links. We do post

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01:06:56,240 --> 01:06:59,040
Speaker 1: links and stuff like that, and also leave comments, of course,

1270
01:06:59,520 --> 01:07:03,720
Speaker 1: hopefully polite positive comments. We're on iTunes, of course, you

1271
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:06,800
Speaker 1: can subscribe. You can leave us a review, which would

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01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:09,760
Speaker 1: be great, preferably five stars. You can stream us from

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01:07:09,800 --> 01:07:13,280
Speaker 1: anywhere of a like a million websites, so go find one.

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01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:17,920
Speaker 1: That's easy. We're also on Facebook, the Thinking Sideways Facebook

1275
01:07:18,840 --> 01:07:22,840
Speaker 1: friend us, like us, follow us, yeah, oh yeah. We

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01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:25,280
Speaker 1: have a Patreon group us. Right. We're on Twitter, We're

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01:07:25,320 --> 01:07:29,160
Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways, that's without the g. We have an email

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01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:35,880
Speaker 1: address believe it or not. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Thinking Sideways

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01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:40,680
Speaker 1: Podcast at gmail dot com. And also, if you're so inclined,

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01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:45,919
Speaker 1: we're on Patreon Patreon dot com slash Thinking Sideways, where

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01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:49,120
Speaker 1: if you want to, uh, you know, pledge a certain

1282
01:07:49,160 --> 01:07:51,080
Speaker 1: amount of money per episode, you don't have to, not

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01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:53,360
Speaker 1: at all, but if you feel like it, we can

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01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:56,400
Speaker 1: find us out there anyway. That's about it. You guys

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01:07:56,400 --> 01:07:59,160
Speaker 1: have any more like you know, murder punds or anything

1286
01:07:59,240 --> 01:08:03,120
Speaker 1: like that talk about Okay, alright, I think we've we've

1287
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:06,040
Speaker 1: poked it to it. Yeah, pretty much. Okay, so we're

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01:08:06,040 --> 01:08:09,680
Speaker 1: gonna stick a fork in this one. Goodbye everybody later, Hi, guys,